Calvo4R (EUW)
: Perma Ban During 2 Week Ban?
It is entirely possible (but very rare) for the system to issue a permanent ban to a player currently serving a 14-day ban. Generally how this works is that the system hands out a 14-day ban after you've already started another game. Then, the game you're playing also gets reported and the system assesses a punishment. Seeing that you've "not reformed" from the 14-day ban, it then gives out a permanent ban. I've seen it a couple times before. I don't think a Rioter manually escalated, simply because I don't think the behavior shown in the log is deserving of such. As such, a support ticket to Riot *should* revert it to a 14-day ban. As for your logs in particular: >Calvo4R: oh stfu Calvo4R: muted already Just mute to begin with. Try to avoid continuing engagement. It doesn't matter who is right or wrong. It's a waste of your time, effort, and certainly your account. Consider even turning off allied chat. Mute all. You'll be happier. You can't control your teammates. They might be carrying, or they might need to be carried. You can only control what you do. Insulting teammates just sets yourself up for a ban. Also, the report system does not consider how many reports a person gets in a single game, only a binary yes/no whether anyone reported; therefore it is not necessary (and is considered harassment) to ask for reports.
RayleighTT (EUNE)
: Riot support assistance [Rioter necesary here]
Have you tried logging into the support site from a different browser, or incognito window? There's sometimes a bug where the support site thinks you're already logged in (due to being logged in from the boards), so it blocks further login attempts.
Rioter Comments
: Can someone explain this
> no where in that chat is harassment. Riot you're just as much of a child then this pathetic loser. Literally every single line in your chat is harassment. Also, the immediate sentence following your claim that there was no harassment included harassment. Lastly, the word you are looking for was "as" in the following: "You're just as much of a child AS this pathetic loser". If you choose to continue down this path, you will inevitably receive a permanent ban from League. Hope that helps!
me op mid (EUNE)
: The banning system has no logic in it
Your whole premise is "I think this is how the system works. I invented data to confirm my own biases; therefore my biases were confirmed." Fortunately for you, the system is far more nuanced than "counting bad words". It does take into account the context of the sentence. And pretty much every single sentence was punishable both by a 'context of the sentence' system and by your own 'here's the strawman I made up' system. Let's look at your logs. Here are the only two lines you said that were not harassing another player. >me op mid: who cares me op mid: i paly for fun Literally every other line of text was in some way a violation of the summoner's code. Stop flaming teammates and opponents. Also, swearing by itself is not against the rules. You can swear if you fucking want to. This, however: >me op mid: fucking trash tryhards Is not saying "fucking vlad damage", which would not be punishable by itself. With regards to the "surrender" spam, absolutely. You're deliberately being obnoxious to teammates. Don't deliberately be obnoxious to teammates.
Adelphel (NA)
: "A reality check"? This whole "Lol its you thats the problem" thing is getting kind of old. I've read on several posts in the forum, before starting my own, people responding to similar issues with "start the game and /mute all since you can't be banned for not communicating" which is why I preemptively stated that option isn't exactly fair. My actions aren't a part of the problem the problem. I believe the problem is defending myself post match since nothing in either of the matches was anything sort of positive. Even during said flaming the only time I actually interact with trolls is post game to tell other people I'm not throwing the game I'm just not used to it, and explaining that the entire game was essentially one giant pool of verbal abuse. WHICH is the reason I asked how the reporting system works, because if its automated I can understand how its just using a keyword algorithm, in the example "Oh you said trash twice and told everyone hes been saying %%% all match" but if it was actually being reviewed (Which is states it is when you send a report) I did NOT understand how a real life person would consider it action worthy. Thanks to the other reply I got which was actually helpful, now I am confused why anyone seems to find the idea of a new player not being toxic far fetched, when everyone has no problem admitting that the community as a whole is absolutely awful. I googled "Most toxic gaming communities" just for laughs to see if it was actually just me thats having this issue, and lo and behold League was at the Top of the list.
Here's what: I don't know how toxic you are in game. Low level games are known for being disproportionately high in toxic players because they are banned on other accounts. **I did not say** this means you are toxic, but rather that you are much more likely to encounter flamers, trolls, griefers, etc. relative to the majority of League players. *I believe you* when you say that there are only a few games that did not have such players. With the exception of the zero-tolerance phrases (which almost always result in an immediate and escalated 14-day ban), the system is far more complicated than mere keywords. And if you believe that no "real life person would consider it action worthy", then I implore you to send a ticket into support and have a real life person review it. Or have us review it, by posting your chat logs. If you're so confident that any real life person reviewing the game would exonerate you, then please post your chatlogs here. If you can convince us, you're much more likely to convince Riot Support. If you cannot convince us, then maybe the punishment was deserved. All I do know for certain about you is that you have 2 chat restrictions in several days. Because you have had 2,** I did say** that this most likely means you are toxic in your games. This is a reality check. Figure it out, or you'll be back with a 2-week ban. If you would like to post your chat logs, we can help identify areas of improvement. We can help you determine why you were chat restricted. Beyond that; mute, report, and move on.
Adelphel (NA)
: So is everything report wise automated?
Almost everything regarding the report system is indeed automated. If a player receives a report, that game is reviewed by the system. It then assesses whether a punishment is merited. If there is extreme toxicity, it will usually give a punishment immediately. If there is minor toxicity, it will let it build up to make sure its a pattern of behavior, not just a one-off. If there is no toxicity, it will discard the report as frivolous. All reports are assessed independently. The system is designed such that it doesn't matter who started because both people are causing problems. Muting is an absolute defense against chat abuse, and the major reason why players are not allowed to 'flame back'. The punishment ladder goes from: 10-game chat restriction 25-game chat restriction 14-day ban Permanent Ban If you have 2 chat restrictions already, it means that (1) your next punishment will be 14 days and (2) you really need a reality check on your actions. It is possible to decrease in punishment tiers through consistent positive play. If you get back to honor 2, you can be confident that your chat has improved and are decreasing in punishment tier. >I see a lot of posts that say "Just mute them" but honestly? I go into games letting people know I am new, and asking for any advice. If someone is flaming you, they aren't offering advice. They aren't helping. There's no value in listening to them. You are only hurting yourself by continuing to engage with them. And they might have been permanently banned on a different account already, which is why they are playing at low levels to begin with. Low level games are notoriously bad. Although Riot is against the idea of prisoners island, low level games tend towards that anyway which makes a pretty awful experience for new players. I am disappointed they don't try to do more about it. *With that said*, if you'd like to post your chat logs, we can help identify areas and things to improve on so that you don't reach a 14-day ban. As I said earlier, this is a reality check. If you get chat restricted once, I understand an error. As a new player, you wouldn't necessarily understand the rules. But as you say, you've been restricted twice in several days since starting the game. *Your actions are part of the problem*, and I suspect you are making things worse for yourself through your own actions.
Mr Elessar (EUNE)
: Is bait banning real?
I mean, that's just called trolling. A troll is someone who deliberately acts in a way to cause other people to get frustrated, annoyed, etc. A league troll wants you to flip a shit at them because they know Riot is much better at detecting chat offenses than gameplay offenses. So yes, bait banning is real. It has been a thing for as long as internet interactions have been real and presumably for centuries or millennia before. You can send a ticket to support, informing them that Player X admitted to trolling during Game Y at Time Z. They'll give a non-committal "hey, thanks for the report", but they DO accept reports of trolling via support ticket.
: What is the purpose of the mute button?
The mute button is the justification as to why you are not allowed to "flame back". You never have to deal with people flaming you when you can press a single button and have an absolute and perfect defense against it. Thus, when someone is harassing you: Mute, report, and move on.
Luisitaaa (EUW)
: ive seen this suggestion made 10000000 times. they dont give a single fuck as they pretend they do. they want u to start from scratch and spend money all over again. it would be more effective. i wouldn't give a damn if i had a permanent mute but was still able to play. i mean im still benefiting from the content i acquired and that's what i want. they treat all cases the same way and players like special needs kids who need to be punished for every little thing.
Here's the thing about permanent chat restriction: It's a great idea. So good, that Riot actually used it in the past. They had what amounted to infinitely scaling chat restrictions (i.e. perma chat restrict) for moderately toxic players, and they would occasionally do a manual ban wave for the worst of the worst. >Even though some say that if flamers cant type, they'll just feed and shit It's not just say, it's empirical evidence. Players with their muted chat couldn't flame their teams the way they wanted to. So they started intentionally feeding and trolling their teammates. Because Riot considers trolling and feeding to be worse behaviors than chat offenses, *they changed the system* to basically what it currently is. It was a great idea, but actually turns out to cause other problems. On the balance of harm, Riot decided flaming was the lesser of two evils. It's not that they don't care; it's the opposite. They care a lot about the players who aren't flaming others and aren't trolling and intentionally feeding. When someone gets a permanent ban, Riot doesn't want them back. Why would any player be induced to buy more things after they get banned? It's really not difficult to not flame someone.
: ....
Hey Dom I promise you, I know quite well how much it sucks to have anyone, let alone a duo+ flaming you, but there are a few important things to keep in mind. First, the system does not care how many people report a player in a given game. Once a single player reports, it engages a review. Multiple reports do not stack, nor do they increase the likelihood of a punishment. Second, all players are held to the same standard. By having an automated system, this is a good thing. While a team of Rioters would have their own biases and opinions, the IFS approaches every single chat log in an identical manner. Third, mute and report them. Being able to mute someone does not justify being allowed to flame (which some people think), but instead is a justification as to why you are not allowed to flame back. You can press a single button and have a perfect defense against anyone flaming you. tl;dr: Premades do not have increased reporting power. Stop harassing your teammates for doing poorly, stop flaming people who flame you, or otherwise you'll end up permanently banned.
Laura ß (NA)
: Is Riot even trying to ban the boosters
Traditionally, Riot bans all the boosters at the end of the season. Come November, you'll see 50 or 60 straight threads of "wtf why was I banned and where are my season rewards". And remember, the boards are a distinctly small fraction of the playerbase; for every person posting here about their bans, there are many many more that either realize they were caught correctly or don't even know about the boards. With the ranked season broken into 3 distinct phases, I would expect Riot to ban boosters in 3 waves at the end of each section. I don't know if that'll happen, though, as opposed to in November.
Galievor (NA)
: Chat Restriction??? Just look
Based on the chat log alone, it's a really weak punishment. I don't think it merited a restriction. As a general statement of advice, however, I strongly encouraging committing to the mute. Just do it, and don't backtrack. >Galievor8525: if brand says something that isnt flaming me tell me Let's be honest here. Brand probably said nothing useful all game. Unmuting, or otherwise continuing to engage with that player is just setting yourself up for failure. If we go even further back: >Galievor8525: im muting all just bc everyone on the team is flaming me Just mute them. Again, it's clear they have nothing useful to say. They're just harassing you. You're just getting frustrated. You're ultimately getting a chat restriction. When you mute them, you never have to see them. You never have to look at their shit.
: Is this really that bad?
>It seems like the worst thing he ever said was "trash" It's (usually; I'm not counting the zero-tolerance part of the system) not about the single worst instance. It's the collective of constantly harassing and belittling teammates for the entire game. It doesn't matter if a teammate sucks. It doesn't matter if they're unlucky, or make a bad decision. Your friend needs to not throw a fit for the entire game. I'm going to highlight areas that were **not** toxic, negative, etc. >Pre-Game ToxiBot: ooga booga ToxiBot: buff ivern In-Game ToxiBot: careful ToxiBot: cho in tri bush . ToxiBot: someone push top . ToxiBot: gj ToxiBot: gg Literally everything else was harassing. This log was absolutely ban-worthy
: How do I challenge a chat restriction when teammates lobby for reports that are false?
There are a few helpful things to know about the IFS, which might help provide context to your chat restriction. First, it doesn't count how how many people report, it only checks to see if there is at least 1 report. It's a binary zero/non-zero check. Thus, you don't need to worry about people crusading for reports against you. In fact, if they are harassing you by repeatedly threatening reports and trying to force you into certain actions, they themselves have broken the rules and I would advise you to report them too. Second, the system doesn't care who is doing the reporting. If they are reported, the system will check for it. If you report them, the system will review it independent of all other players. If they report you, the system will review your game independent of all other players. Third, if you were chat restricted, then they aren't false reports. Just because the other players also probably deserve a punishment doesn't make yours invalid. As mentioned earlier, each reported player is judged independent of all teammates. Back in the Tribunal days, it was common for the voters to give a bit of leeway to those who had awful teammates, but even then it hardly a guarantee. If you'd like us to take a look at your logs, you can log into the League Client to access them and copy them here. We can point out bad moments, unhealthy attitudes, areas to improve, etc.
: This guy lied to me
You can send a ticket into support regarding this. If you can demonstrate that the player has been deliberately doing this to scam skins out of people (or rather, demonstrate to Riot that they should investigate for themselves that this is happening), they might take action. From TOU, Section 5 viii. Participating in any action which, in the sole and exclusive judgment of Riot Games, defrauds any other user of the Game, including by scamming or social engineering;
: Thanks for the advice. Feels good to know someone else agrees with me. I got a 10 game ban when i started because i was having a bad day and did rag eon someone a small amount so I understood that one. This one makes no sense and I just uninstalled the game. Hopefully riot learns and doesnt turn away more players for stuff like this.
Just gonna put this out there: Looking for people to agree with you is just going to lead to another chat restriction >I got a 10 game ban when i started Or a 14-day ban, assuming this one was a 25-game chat restriction. Aside from that, the person you responded to has decent advice. It certainly sucks when your teammates aren't at your level. But that means you shouldn't lower yourself to their level. It is *difficult* to avoid small arguments (which leads to being tilted, frustrated, and oftentimes banned), but you absolutely can by muting them. I personally don't think of muting as protecting me from their harassment, I think of muting as protecting me from a knee-jerk reaction to flame them back. Like a child on an airplane or a loud dog, I just want them to shut up. And there is no easier way to do that than muting them.
: Is there a known software to kick people offline from the league client?
While it is impossible to directly kick someone from the game, there are a couple things that have the same effect. Some years ago, people would invite other players into a skype call (you know this story is old because its about skype and not discord) and Skype's relative lack of security to DDOS (all they needed was your skype username, and for people who had the same username in skype and on league...). In any case, you should send a ticket into support. Assuming your story is true, that kind of stuff is an immediate permanent ban.
: Yes, as I said like the current system but with immediate consequences. Please read what I say before being snarky and ending up sounding stupid
I've read through your stuff. I'll acknowledge that my comment was unnecessarily snarky. After all your clarifications, your first conclusion is: "I believe the system should be more strict. The threshold for a punishment should be lower". It is a totally valid opinion, and one that I agree with to an extent. However, you haven't said anything new. Everything you've said, the system already does but with more tolerance to those who are very rarely toxic. It's already near-immediate; it will review a game and verify (or discard) a report within half an hour. It already gives "a message from riot and a short chat ban as a first offense". Your second conclusion is: "The punishments, especially after the first, should be much harsher". Here's the thing: I've been around the game for a long time. One of the most interesting things Riot has ever shared is that the punishment itself doesn't actually matter much. There used to be 5 punishments: A Warning, 3-day ban, 7-day ban, 14-day ban, and permanent ban. When they developed chat restrictions, they initially added them on top of a ban because otherwise, they would just play on a different account with no consequences. Interestingly, it made very little difference to reform rates. *It did not matter what the punishment was, simply that it existed*. They found that most people do reform after a gentle correction (i.e. 10-game chat restriction, 25-game chat restriction). They kept the 14-day ban as a serious wake-up call, for those that just don't get it. And they found that if a person doesn't reform after a third punishment, they are incredibly unlikely to reform at all. Thus, the fourth punishment is a permanent ban. On the contrary, if the punishment scale is excessive, that's how you lose a playerbase. I've seen people on the forums react strongly to a 10-game chat restriction. In my opinion, it's a slap on the wrist. But to them, it's a grievous and personal offense. I've seen people react blase to 14-day bans. For them, it really was the wake-up call they needed. tl;dr I tentatively agree that there should be a lower threshold of toxicity for triggering a punishment. However, there is little merit in changing the punishment scaling because Riot discovered through first-hand evidence that the form of punishment (chat restrictions vs ban vs long ban) was much less important to reform than the immediacy (tribunal vs IFS) and visibility (reform cards, in-game effects) of the punishment.
: Yes, that's why I suggested a message from riot and a short chat ban as a first offense. This let's players know it is not ok in this game, gives them time to reflect and know that consequences are real. I guess my whole point is that people fear the consequences of ZT words but not toxicity because they largely don't exist. Another possible part of this idea could be while chat banned, put them with people who have very high honor levels. This will hopefully show them ideal behavior, and maybe rub off on them as both positivity and negativity are contagious. EDIT: I posted my proposed "system" after your original comment so I understand now your misunderstanding on my lack of properly conveying my point originally
>Yes, that's why I suggested a message from riot and a short chat ban as a first offense. This let's players know it is not ok in this game, gives them time to reflect and know that consequences are real. You mean the 10-game chat restriction that is the normal first offense for minor and moderate toxicity, and in place under the current system?
: You might want to remove his name. It's against the rules. To answer your question, half of the new accounts are recently banned players creating new accounts. Or Bronze smurfs creating new accounts to try their luck and assume they are better than the rest of the player base in levels 5-25. You more than likely encountered a recently banned player that seems to be on track for his next account.
I'll also add that Riot deliberately tries to separate genuine new players from smurfs. Obviously, its not perfect and there are plenty of new player horror stories. But for the most part, there are separate queues for reroll accounts and actual new players. Since OP acknowledged it was a smurf account, its very likely that Riot matched them up with other smurf accounts or previously-banned players who somehow expect everyone to be a top tier player despite playing at "new player" levels.
Voldymort (EUNE)
: Have you ever had a salty player just... make your night?
In an ARAM, the team I was on fell behind massively early. The enemy team had 5 AP, and the Brand started spamming 'gg ez' in all chat. But as our MR purchases came online, we started trading evenly, then winning fights. As we were taking the enemy nexus, Brand continued to say 'gg ez'. I was so impressed by that player's conviction that I didn't even report them.
wqwdsasd (EUW)
: 10 games chat-restriction, Premades report griefing me.
I'll be honest, the chat log you have presented to us is incredibly minor negativity. If I saw it back in the Tribunal days, I would've voted to pardon. But your reactions to Imperial Pandaa and Julevi are ludicrously condescending. You are actively disrespectful to people who posted here. Thus, I have come to the conclusion that the punishment was deserved.
FF or QQ (NA)
: Is Banning Toxicity Toxic?
Permanent chat restrictions caused a measurable increase in trolling, feeding, etc. Riot considers trolling and feeding to be worse than chat offenses, so ended the policy of infinite chat restrictions. It's not that permanent chat restrictions are a bad idea, it's just that it's been tried before and Riot decided against it.
kurajilo (EUNE)
: they began to harm my family, as I could otherwise react to the affect...they told me much worse things than I did to them
Just remember the mute function. There are some games that, no matter what you do, will suck. Nothing you say will ever help against a premade 4. Mute the people who bother you so that you aren't tempted to respond to them. We know the system is bad at giving feedback on your reports, we know that it really does suck when the system catches you when someone else was awful, but you just need to grit your teeth and play the game out as best you can. Just mute, report, and move on.
: Why I Believe The Punishment Experience Is Flawwed
So what I am understanding of your post is that: "A flaw of the punishment system is that it doesn't give specific feedback about what is punishable, it only gives a chat log and inconsistent resources in terms of forums and player support". Is that the crux of it? Because you have a fair point. A punishment should be specific and immediate. A person not knowing why they were punished is more likely to continue such behavior in the future. It is vital for a person to understand what is being punished for the punishment to be effective. --------------- First: Currently, the IFS applies a punishment and gives the chat logs that triggered the punishment, saying "These chat logs led to your punishment". If it knows how to identify punishable chat from non-punishable chat, why can't it determine between different types of punishable chat?" The issue isn't a matter of whether it can, the issue is knowing that errors will happen. We know the IFS is not perfect. Sometimes it doesn't ban players who deserve it. Sometimes (fortunately very rarely) it incorrectly applies a punishment to someone who does NOT deserve it. So let's add an extra layer of complexity to it. Let's tell people not just that their chat is wrong, but have the system add a tag that explains exactly how. Where could this go wrong? Well, let's have it put the wrong tag on it. Let's have the "racist behavior" tag put on an otherwise punishable chat log that doesn't have racist behavior. Suddenly, even though the rest of the chat log shows constant harassment of others. This player now thinks they were wrongly punished because a computer system applied the wrong tag to the chat log. Or maybe there was a chat log that did include racist speech in addition to general flaming. Then, they remove the racist text from their habits and...get punished again! Because their logs are still filled with harassment, flame, and jaywalking. So now we've established that the system must not only determine what type of punishable chat it is, but also apply multiple tags for it. And now that we're adding multiple tags to any given chat log, there's multiple more opportunities for the system to show its flaws. There would be a flood of "my ban tag was wrong" posts, and the constant response of "you did X, even though the system didn't correctly identify it". _tl;dr/conclusion number one_: It is against Riot's interest to increase the complexity of the IFS because it would make it appear far less accurate than it actually is. It already struggles with explaining low-level offenses, and more chances for feedback errors is not a positive development. I believe Riot **could and should** do a better job of explaining how the system works to all players, but adding complexity to the IFS would not assist to that end. ----------------- Second: Let's also look at the examples you give one at a time. Why are they punishable? Why should someone know that they are punishable? -Asking for others to report someone By itself, solely asking for a report isn't punishable. It is when a player continuously harasses and badgers others, demanding reports, threatening bans, etc. that cause the IFS to apply a punishment. In a relatively recent game I played, there was an intentionally feeding Udyr on the enemy team. I decided I would report the player even before several enemies politely requested that we report Udyr. That's not harassment, and it's a calm and measured response to a trolling player. But in many chat logs we see here on the boards, you'll see frequent calls for reports and other forms of harassment. -Telling someone to stop doing something harmful to the team dynamic I'm not certain how this one is distinct from the next two, if my next responses don't address this point, please let me know -Telling someone how to play the game It is permitted to suggest builds or recommend playstyles to teammates. However, most people don't do that. What they do is saying worthless things like "stop feeding", or "why haven't you built X", or "worthless jgl". These don't help teammates, all they do are continuously harass and badger others. In a game, I requested an ally to do something by saying "Please commit to the fight instead of running away. When they are distracted by my CC, your AOE would be game-winning". -Speaking against trolling players A troll is **defined** as someone who seeks to cause others to become upset through their words or actions. If you are speaking against a troll, you are proving to the troll that it is working. _Don't feed the trolls._ If they AREN'T a troll, then that's even worse. Speaking against someone (read: harassing and badgering) who is doing poorly, but NOT trolling, then that person is literally flaming. Flaming is counter-productive to winning, and it also makes the flamer an asshole. _tl;dr/conclusion number two:_ Players should know that harassing others will increase their chances of losing, is obnoxious behavior, and will be punished by the IFS. The issue isn't any of the specific examples you list, but rather that they do not recognize that they are harassing others. They THINK they are doing one of the 4 items, but both the IFS and the boards here are to inform them of their mistake. ------------------ Third: Your strawman depictions of the boards and Riot support. You've deliberately chosen callous and harsh statements, instead of the actual advice given. You say: "You may not think so, but you deserved it" More accurate: The punishment was correctly placed and won't be lifted "You were being toxic because you said this which you weren't told was against the rules" Harassment of others is explicitly covered in the Terms of Use, so they WERE told it was against the rules. "If the other player is being toxic, just mute them" If the other player is being toxic, mute them _so that you are not tempted to respond_ in a way that breaks the rules. "Imagine how the other player feels when you threaten to report them or react negatively to them. Turn the other cheek when they assault you, obviously" There are no circumstances in which you are allowed to break the rules, even if other players do so. Mute so you don't have to see it, report so that we know about it and can apply a punishment, and set it aside so that you aren't tilted for your next game. "Sucks that you went through that but it doesn't excuse you reacting to racists and other forms of toxicity" Actually, this one is pretty accurate. I'm not going to revise it. Mute, report, and move on. _tl;dr/conclusion number three: _Some people, both in game and on the boards are unhelpful. But many people, especially folks like Umbral Regent give very clear and exact information and context regarding IFS punishments. If a player cannot learn from one of Regent's posts, that's because they refuse to take responsibility for their actions, not because the system is flawed. The vast majority of players don't post on the boards. They don't spend several hours insulting everyone who dares to disagree with them. They look at their chat logs; they say "huh, I guess I was an asshole", and they strive to avoid being an asshole for a moderately long stretch of time.
: > [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=16YFpuAi,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-10T02:00:53.845+0000) > > No, because you simply do not get chat restricted if you never chat. Period. Alright. I was under the impression if enough people report you that you will still be punished.
All reports are independently assessed by the IFS. If it finds nothing wrong, it will take no action. If you get enough reports, it's possible that Riot will take a manual look. But if you don't chat, they have nothing to see.
dalphy08 (NA)
: Player thinking they can publicly defame me with a video of me?
Defamation requires 3 things: 1) The statement must be false (A video of things you actually did is not false) 2) The statement must be malicious 3) The statement must cause measurable harm (ex. losing out on a job opportunity) You won't find what you are looking for in libel law. Your charge fails two of the three requirements. Also consider the Streisand Effect. Are more than 10 people even going to watch that video? I doubt it. Nobody is going to remember your screenname a day later.
: Alot of assumptions being made, I never said i received a chat ban.
>But let me drop an F bomb to tell the two ragey kids to Shut the F$%^ up i get slapped with a 10 chat ban Yes you did.
Gódgívén (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=usul1202,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=n2KzIVAO,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-12-11T15:20:50.968+0000) > > So, i glanced back through your history and saw that you did have a game on 7/12, then took a 3 month break. If the email got botched its certainly possible you got a 14 day ban there and didn't notice. What is your current honor level? Yep, checked the same, i do have couple of games back then, guess that part was something i didn't realized. I'm for some reason 0. I will repeat again, i never received an email regarding the ban (I checked the email history with them).
Honor level 0 means you were banned. Considering the 3 month break you took starting on the 12th, it's likely you never noticed the 14 days you were prevented from playing. What Riot Support SHOULD give you are the chatlogs of the game/games, which you may need to specifically request.
: Toxicity - Avoiding Reports?
> every single time the game locks on loading stats Have you posted about this in report a bug/support ticket? I have not personally encountered this problem.
: Chat banned for trio reporting me for calling one of them a snowflake....
You: I got gang-reported and banned. Also You: I tried to get someone else gang-reported and banned. Most important note: The IFS does not count the number of reports. If there exists a single report, it will conduct a review. There is no distinction between 1 report and 9 reports. Less important note: Using the word snowflake was the least of your problems. Least important note: The old tribunal absolutely would have voted to punish this.
: > [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3kk6NP6b,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-09-08T23:00:33.024+0000) > > That was never a thing and never will be. See it actually was a thing and I know because I played back then. Feel free to go ask a Rioter. They will confirm.
There was _an instance_ in which the PB&J team, led by Lyte at the time, gave out 14-day bans to a few select individuals who were harassing teammates and threatening to report and cause account bans if they did not follow their instructions. They also had their report weights set to 0. This was literally years ago, during the Tribunal. Riot no longer uses the Tribunal. Riot no longer uses report weights. Riot no longer employs Lyte. There was never a time in which "filing x false reports" led to a 7-day ban.
: > [{quoted}](name=SorenAlucard,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qEhrFbnA,comment-id=0001000000010001,timestamp=2018-08-30T18:41:27.119+0000) > > Considering their rules aren't universal across servers, AND they don't even follow their own standards behind closed doors? Sounds like hypocrisy > > Sounds like they shouldn't be banning people for what they say > > You're still full of shallow analysis. Where did you get that their rules aren't universal? Some more specific ones yeah but that's because of cultural differences, e.g. China and the bone thing. But as for behavior I've yet to see nor hear mention of X action being punished on NA but not on KR because things are just different there. Citation needed, sir. And again, it is hypocrisy but just because they broke the laws set doesn't mean that those laws are invalid to players. If a cop robs someone it doesn't mean that the general public is allowed to start robbing people. It means that that cop or cops need to be punished for their crimes along with those who thought that it was suddenly cool to break the law.
A lot of harassment that gets punished on NA actually isn't punished on KR (see Cowsep). This is primarily due to the way Korean telecoms and governing regulations are set up; the specifics are basically nonexistent in NA or EU.
: False bans exist
False bans do exist, but they are incredibly rare. Fortunately for the OP, they can demonstrate whether they were falsely banned by posting chat logs. If the community comes to the conclusion "this punishment was undeserved", then it has a good chance of being overturned by Riot. tl;dr OP needs to post chat logs
: This got me chat restricted for 25 games lol i was playing with a couple teamates that were being so toxic to me calling me way more worse things than me but i got chat restriced im not tripping tho cuz i was being a lil over the top i guess **Game 1 Pre-Game MindlessMotiv: first time nidalee MindlessMotiv: this norms right In-Game MindlessMotiv: this gunna be hard MindlessMotiv: there team comp late game is horrible MindlessMotiv: thx MindlessMotiv: damn lol MindlessMotiv: lol MindlessMotiv: nice MindlessMotiv: thought my heaal was up lol MindlessMotiv: i didnt wanna ks for you to cry later brah chill MindlessMotiv: well i like my joke better cuz you crying right now lol MindlessMotiv: yo know what fuck you all im done trying MindlessMotiv: k cool MindlessMotiv: nice sounds good MindlessMotiv: maybe next time instead of flaming someone you just shut up MindlessMotiv: bruh chill and stop feeding mid k MindlessMotiv: yea report me for them, being toxic af MindlessMotiv: you guys are so trash you cry every time lol just uninstall MindlessMotiv: lol dont cry in ranked and try to ff so early MindlessMotiv: lol ass kids MindlessMotiv: idc MindlessMotiv: lol diana fed all early game MindlessMotiv: and you flame me over 1 play MindlessMotiv: you not gunna get past silver like that lol MindlessMotiv: oof reported MindlessMotiv: screeenshoted and gunna send to riot MindlessMotiv: lol these kids flame me over 1 play when diana fed the whole game lol MindlessMotiv: bruh yall trash forreaal i dont know how to post pictures but i got a picture of the other guy saying things way worse than me lol
If you want feedback on your chat restriction, you should consider making your own thread. But basically, everything up to this point was fine. >MindlessMotiv: this gunna be hard MindlessMotiv: there team comp late game is horrible MindlessMotiv: thx MindlessMotiv: damn lol MindlessMotiv: lol MindlessMotiv: nice MindlessMotiv: thought my heaal was up lol MindlessMotiv: i didnt wanna ks Note that I cut off the line halfway through. Everything after that point was not fine. Also, for you. MindlessMotiv: maybe next time instead of flaming someone you just shut up
Gundrabis (EUW)
: Is Riots Definition of Toxicity compatible with comon sense?
>riot is protecting the people who int and troll and flame There are shortcomings of Riot's system, and Riot not banning trolls and intentional feeders in a timely manner is one of them. But please don't fall into the mistake of assuming Riot _protects_ them. They don't. Trolling is an immediate 14-day ban when caught, while chat misbehavior offers two warnings in the form of chat restrictions. And there's a lot to dissect with regards to trolling. In trolling: Perhaps they were in fact trolling. Congratulations! By getting into an angry rage-fest over a troll, YOU are rewarding the troll for their behavior. A troll's actions are SOLELY for the purpose of getting other people upset. Don't feed the troll. Perhaps they weren't trolling. Congratulations! Instead of playing to the best of your ability, you have chosen to piss off someone else, and make them tilted. Now your team is even less likely to win than before. And three other people on your team have to deal with this shit. In reporting trolls: Everyone, their grandmother, and their little dog too want to have trolls banned from the game. But because of a) skill differences, b) level of play for the specific game, and c) skill with a specific champion, the actual quality of play demonstrated by a given player varies hugely from game to game. There are a lot of reasons why someone might be having a bad game, and every time you report someone having a bad game, you make Riot's job of catching trolls harder. The signal to noise ratio in troll reports is tiny. Riot trying to find trolls might as well be a DDOS attack. It's really quite difficult to find the actual trolls, and mass-banning innocent players is a sure-fire way to drive away the playerbase.
Zorbius (NA)
: 2 week ban...deserved...but what can I....
>NOW, what can I do to prevent a permaban? Well... >I am planning to type like nothing That's a great way to start. You cannot be banned for chat if you do not chat. Personally, I recommend starting every game with the following two lines of text: 1: gl hf 2: /muteall Why mute all? Muting protects me from my knee-jerk reaction to respond to others. I can't respond (and possibly be trolled) by toxic players if I never notice toxic players. >Am I safe from a perma? Absolutely safe? Not exactly. If you slip up and have 1-2 more bad games in the next month, you'll very likely get a permanent ban. But if you stick to saying nothing (and muting all, every game), you will be safe. You might also enjoy the game more when you don't have to deal with teammates bothering you. >Does this decay Yes, but slowly. It takes ~3 months of regular play (an unclear number of games, but I'm guessing around 100-150) to go from "permanent ban tier" to "14-day ban tier", and another ~3 months to reach "25 game chat restriction tier", etc. >Will my honor level recover Okay, so you didn't actually ask that. But Honor level decently correlates to the punishment tier decay and is visible to you, so its useful to talk about. And we know for certain that regular, positive play rapidly unlocks and increases honor. Silent, neutral play slowly unlocks and increases honor. And negative behavior that isn't quite bad enough to get punished by the IFS will cause honor gain to basically stop. If you improve in honor level, you can be reasonably confident that what you are doing is improving your account status away from a permanent ban. And possibly be enjoying the game more.
: > [{quoted}](name=LeafieGreens2,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=r30YjvL9,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-11T19:36:11.444+0000) > > Dude, player behavior is the biggest issue that League faces. This game inherently causes people to get frustrated and tilt. I started playing in 2009 with six of my friends and all of them quit because of the toxicity they repeatedly faced in games. Now I am the only one left. I'm like Nautilus, I just keep going "forward... forward..." That's awful :/ I just joined in February with friends and we always have fun. But i do see what most people are ranting about. I just didn't realize how much of a issue it really was until opening this boards section.
That's probably looking at it from the wrong angle. Your experience is solely your experience. If you have fun in League, and don't see trolls, ragers, griefers, etc., then all the power to you. Don't let other people's experience dictate how you experience this game. If you don't think its an issue, then that's because _it isn't a problem for you._ First, this sub-forum is specifically for people who have questions about their restriction/suspension, or questions about the system in general. Thus, a large percentage of posts are from people who have been banned, are upset about recent events, and/or just want to rant. It's explicitly pre-disposed to negative behavior commentary. It'd be like going to a restaurant and being surprised by them serving food. Don't search for something common and be surprised when you find it. Second, in what is known as negativity bias, people remember negative events more frequently and vividly than positive ones. If there are 3 feeders (unintentional or intentional) in your last 10 games, the average person will say "It seems like half my games have been ruined" rather than "huh, only 3 out of 90 people I encountered caused problems for me".
: Can you report someone for purposely trying to make someone angry?
>Can you report someone for purposely trying to make someone angry? Yes. Deliberately causing a poor game experience for someone via chat is a punishable offence.
: So I Just Finished My Chat Ban ... Wow Riot ... Just Wow ...
What the chat ban is trying to teach you is that how _you were previously using chat was incorrect_. You were already not properly communicating with your team. >so here i am for the next 10 games just unable to do any constructive communication with my teams, so like when i had a support rage and swap lanes 5 mins in leaving bot ADC to 2v1, i was unable to try and resolve the situation With all due respect, there is nothing you could have done to fix the situation. >9/10 i am a peace keeper in league i don't call people out for having bad games or making bad plays, i only go hard on people who openly admit they are feeding or are beyond obviously feeding or people who troll their team mates So 10% of your behavior is report-worthy? Also, why are you feeding the trolls? >good players to be punished for no reason other then dealing with the toxic community using the same toxins as them Translation: "Good Players" punished for being as toxic as toxic players. Ergo, being toxic players.
Grubner (NA)
: Nope, not justified. Just pointing out that the system does not work well. Sure, maybe i deserved a punishment for what I did, and I got one. But I know for certain that the players on my team who were far more toxic did NOT receive a punishment, and THAT is the point.
The system works very well for what it is designed to do. It just happens to be designed such that the context is irrelevant. If you want to argue design philosophy; that the IFS should take context into account, then do so. But don't blame the system for doing exactly what it was designed to do.
: My only argument is this: telling them they suck won't fix it for _you_ either. You told them they suck, but nothing changes. They reported you, but they still suck so nothing changes. The only thing that changed was you got a 10 game chat restriction. You're losing the zero-sum game mate! I mean, if it made you feel better, and that 10-game chat restriction was worth getting your thoughts off your chest, all the more power to you. But punishment escalate, so next time you need to get it off your chest it's 25 games. Then a 14 day suspension. And then a perma-ban. And I don't like to see anyone permabanned. :( So, maybe find another way to vent your frustration, and keep your account? Just a suggestion. See you on the rift maybe.
It's not even a zero-sum game. That would mean the winning state is equivalent to the losing state. This is a negative-sum game. Everyone loses, because they are getting flamed, losing games, being bad, and/or getting chat restrictions.
: Transparency
>after my 10 day restriction i never got another window warning again, just straight to the 25 game restriction to the 14 day ban >edit: i'm just saying instead of playing a game and sitting wondering "wow i wonder how close i am to being banned" I'll be a popup window for you. _You are very close to being permanently banned_. If you didn't get the hint after 35 games of chat restrictions AND a 14-day suspension, what more can zero-consequence popups provide? Why would you change for a simple message when actual, tangible consequences explicitly telling you that you have made mistakes have been provided?
koshkyra (NA)
: Suggestion: add a "warning" tier in the punishment tiers (only for chat-related punishments)
It's a valid argument. Historically, Riot used to give warnings as the first "punishment". In addition, I like that you have it replacing the 10-game restriction as opposed to an additional tier. Riot noted that multiple low-level punishments don't really help reform players past the second, which is why the third punishment is a hefty two-week suspension. And in my opinion, Riot could do a lot more with relatively little effort to educate players on how the system works. The Monthly Status Cards (in any form) would be a good start, and I think Riot should make a explanation video and give a one-time reward for people to watch it. There are a couple things that go against it, though. First, the 10-game chat restriction IS a warning. In terms of punishment, its a slap on the wrist. Sure, the honor loss sucks, but that's part of the point. It serves 3 purposes. One: It explicitly shows (hypothetical) you several games in which (hypothetical) you stepped over the line. Two: It, teaches you that chat has a limited, game-specific purpose, and you don't have the luxury of using it to harass others. Three: It's telling you that what you did is dishonorable, and now your honor rating reflects that. Second, cutting out the 10-game chat restriction lessens the value of the 25-game restriction. It's possible to dismiss the first chat restriction as a fluke or mistake, but when another comes, it reinforces the very specific idea that the _chat is the problem and needs to be addressed_. Perhaps if the warning were tacked on top of the chat restriction, rather than in lieu of the chat restriction. Add some bells and whistles to it. Maybe make honor level 1 easier to climb out of, while leaving honor 0 a serious punishment.
: This player must be banned - if not it will be a clear sign of riot not giving a damn
>Im not the only one who reported this player. I freaking DEMAND a ban for this player. If I see that he is still playing without any punishment this will be yet another troll that got unpunished after attempting to ruin the game. Which obviously shows how much riot cares about this game (means not at all). I am sympathetic. I really am. We know very well how much it sucks to have someone troll, AFK, or otherwise be an ass. But there is a LOT of noise in the troll-detection system. Everyone, their grandmother, and their dog too are up in arms about the "trolls" they encounter. For every legitimate troll someone like you encounters, there's a hundred more people that are whining about the "trolls" they encounter. If Riot doesn't ban the play, it isn't because they don't care. It's because they can't watch every single game, and a lot of people cry wolf.
: i was farming, because theres no more monsters in my jg, so what i do? not farm in enemy jg, go to some enemy champion, die, and get ban for intentioanl feeding? no, farming is a better choice, at least less likely confronting a enemy champion, you want me to Do damage, yes i fo plenty damage using sion, then what? i got banned. you ban me for not Doing damage, or doing damage. wtf u exactly want me to Do riot?
You go to the enemy jungle, die...without dealing damage to the enemy? An AFK player puts up a better fight than that. You play a lot of Amumu and Mundo. You MAX YOUR W. It is literally impossible to do no damage to the enemy unless you are deliberately trying to not do damage, aka intentionally feeding.
You try to ignore it. And then report it afterwards. The DEFINITION of someone trolling is that they do something for the purpose of making you upset. Once you act out and get frustrated, they've won. Their goal is to make you upset and angry at them. That's why you try your best to ignore trolls. The reason is seems like trolls don't get banned (they do, but it's not an automatic system like the chat system) is because everyone and their mother and little dog, too, are yelling about trolls, and many of them aren't. Banning trolls is like a Where's Waldo book. Seeking out the trolls in a sea of chaos and noise.
: Riot making victims of the victimized. Examples of the bullied. GREAT JOB RIOT!
>Riot gives you 2 options mute and have limited team communication or don't mute and endure inbred pieces of shit for a 20-40 minute match. I love people making this argument. How many times did the "inbred pieces of shit" ever say anything useful in terms of game communication? Seriously, how many times? I give this challenge every time. Show me a replay in which an "inbred piece of shit" made a game winning call. Show me a SINGLE game where not muting someone was worth it. And then get over your delusions and mute.
: PERMA BAN for flame should be changed to PERMA MUTE
A few thoughts: >PERMA BAN for flame should be changed to PERMA MUTE A Perma-mute is a great idea. In fact, _Riot already tried that_. They thought it was worth implementing into the game. They then found it didn't work because it increased instances of trolling and feeding. > im sorry for not being a huge streamer like Tyler1 so i can get unbanned Tyler1 (takes shot) was not unbanned. All of his permanently-banned accounts are still banned. Rather, he was allowed to make a new account without it getting immediately removed. >change the way Riot Games just take our accounts from us Legally speaking, the accounts are not ours. It's not unique to Riot, either, but industry standard to have all accounts belong to the company making the game.
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