: I mean, it's not THE SAME, but you have 2 major kit changes and that's it. I suppose his voice lines and ability names being less 'meta' (they did remove metal music references, which is regrettable), I'm curious why you see it as a 'HUGE' adjustment, rather than just, well, NEW. I know change is hard, but I mean, can you acknowledge how much of old Morde is still present? Or do the changes just feel so massive?
I guess we can look to other reworks like Sion, Galio, Urgot, etc., for the sheer extent of kit and theme bulldozing. A lot of these champions became caricature of themselves after sufficient changes were made. We were lucky to get reworks like Taric and Poppy that did well on preserving a lot of the original charm and strategy of their kits. I don't know if the changes would be so bad if they had done all of this sooner - as we'd have less time to adjust to massive changes. A lof of other champion mains scream when even the smallest changes come their way (IE: the delay on Veigar's E, Rengar changes, Akali hybrid scaling, Lee Sin Q physics changes,etc.) Not all change is good, and even when it is (which the Morde rework is), it's unrealistic to think that change won't be meet with opposition = especially when it's not absolutely required. It's a huge blow to say the least. I can only imagine if they did this kind of large-scale VGU and overhaul to champs like Lux, or Teemo. Heads would roll - no matter what Riot said about their kits and the future of the champ in general.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bobo113,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=g9wn2Atf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-06T16:30:22.437+0000)Clearly something is wrong with this design. Would someone mind cluing me in on what's so bad about it [so I can hopefully fix it]? Otherwise -6 is a bit excessive, and I apologize if people here have some kind of resentment of me. . . Mostly that it fails to make a case for the changes it proposes. If you want a redesign, it is helpful to first identify the target goals and the identified issues with the champion, and then make specific adjustments to fix them. This feels very much like "I *liked* Morde's awkward mix of necromancy and metal, so I made some adjustments to it," without telling us why you kept or changed what you did. As a result it feels arbitrary and still suffers from the thematic mis-match issues Mordekaiser suffers from, without making much of a case why it's an improvement over old Mordekaiser. Simultaneously, it competes with a redesign that, while you may not personally like it, is *very* clear about the changes it made and the reason it made them, very clear about why it added/removed what it did, and dedicated enough to preserving the existing Mordekaiser's gameplay that, while it changed several elements, it managed to preserve more than I think anyone was expecting.
I explain that in footnotes for each ability. There are reasons for a lot of those aspects still being in the kit. If a lot of his kit was really that horrible, he would have been more heavily reworked much, much sooner (Refer to the timely reworks of Sion and Taric regarding targeted stuns, their place in the current landscape, and why they vanished so quickly). Part of the reason why this kit isn't supposed to be a massive improvement by any stretch, is because the changes Morde required weren't massive to begin with. There's a reason he was kept the same for so long, and why, especially after some fine tuning between 2015 and 16, he found a niche with his new kit. It just took the headache of botlane juggernaut kaiser, and many subsequent patches afterward, to finally jostle him into the spot where he needed to be. For the most part, he was totally fine, besides some targeting bugs and a few other ult-related issues. Pros will be quick to tell you the same. Morde suffered more from a modernization drawback than a thematic or even a full kit issue - with the exception of his old ult (which many can agree was a little strange in function and in practice). Plenty of players still found his old kit fairly sound after all this time, and he still had healthy competition and counterplay in all of his featured lanes, and even jungle. There are not currently many champs with that kind of versatility, and while the current PBE Morde also has a lot of these strengths, there's no real reason why they had to change something that clearly worked.
: if you think that morde's kit is 'gone' then you're missing a lot. Not just his W in his passive, he also retains a healthier version of his shield (a buff in some ways), an aoe skill shot (that is more cohesive with his theme now that it slams his mace instead of maces just appearing from the ground), he steals stats from champs he kills with his ult (RIP ghost), with some new CC for good measure. He retains his single target bonus damage, moved to the AoE which is cleaner design-wise, plus he now gets bonus magic dmg on every hit. His theme remains mostly intact (unlike, say, Galio). Losing the ghost dragon is probably my biggest sadness, but I think overall they did a pretty good job retaining his identity.
You'll find a fairly large pocket of players who disagree entirely, but that's definitely a valid opinion. I'm ok with what they did with the new Q - as it is the most like the post-2015 Morde Q, without having to rely on yet another 3-hit passive to deal necessary damage (especially without reliable tools or functioning targeting mechanics to ensure it connects) Believe me, as Morde main for many years, this is still a HUGE change that will take many years to adjust to. I would still consider this far more new than old, and more of a new champion.
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Reworks destroy champions, we all know that.
To be fair, not everyone is aware of how bad some champs have gotten it (the Morde rework isn't even the worse offender). You'd be surprised how many people still think any reworked champ mains should be happy with the attention that they got - no matter the impact.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Rework Concept] An Alternate Mordekaiser Rework - Revisiting the Iron Revenant
Clearly something is wrong with this design. Would someone mind cluing me in on what's so bad about it (so I can hopefully fix it)? Otherwise -6 is a bit excessive, and I apologize if people here have some kind of resentment of me. . .
Rioter Comments
: stop with your ideas for champions omg, do you guys go to sleep dreaming about league?
I mean, I'm not a genius, but when you stumble upon a thread on "**_concepts and creations_**," that's probably what you should expect, right?
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] December CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
Mb everyone - I didn't get around to any CCOS reviews in the past days. That likely means I'm out of the running, so good luck to everyone else!
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] December CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
Eh. Why not. . . [Bishop - The Equalizer](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/GnZ47M53-champion-concept-bishop-the-equalizer)
Tamur (NA)
: If Riot stuck to reality-based logic then Brand would be immune to Fire Anivia would be immune to Ice Sona would be immune to Silence Cho ' Gath, Malphite, Mao'kai, and Ivern would be immune to knock ups and knockbacks Janna would immune to wind Zac would be immune to Physical Damage Etc etc etc...
- Cassiopeia couldn't ult Malphite. - Corki wouldn't need boots. - Arhi couldn't attract Taric. - Aurelion Sol wouldn't fit in the map. - Nobody could defeat Ekko.
: Uhm, E uses the Pulse drone, not the Atlas drone
Welp, just realized that. Mb. No need to sass me though - I don't know your concept as well as you do. Here I thought E involved the Atlas Drone for some reason; maybe I was subconsciously giving you the benefit of the doubt figuring you already had a more solidified identity for Atlas and Pulse as offense and defense respectively, but oh well.
Echoing (NA)
: Be really careful about that claim. It's easy to say "Oh, Riot took inspiration from this!", when the reality is probably simpler - that two people came up with similar ideas. We don't get to see Riot's design workshopping, so we don't get to confirm what they did and didn't see.
I've spoken to Riot reps in regards to this matter at a convention in 2014. They confirmed that in pre-production for any particular content development cycle, they browse the boards for inspiration, and sometimes save the work they find there in their aesthetic references or ideas folders. Part of the reason some of their final products seems somewhat far removed from the originals is that they are bound to do so for legal reasons - every time a concept is made on the forums actually limits their ability to create. I wouldn't make these claims without some kind of backing - don't worry. EDIT: They had even confirmed that they remembered putting an image of Bo Zhong (my first creation) into one of their reference folders. Wether or not it was used for anything remains a mystery.
: Like it. Clever concept! Has riot ever create a fan's concept?
Never in full. Void Fizz and Warring Lingdoms Vi were basically community-made skins, and several newer champions have taken inspiration from the C&C boards - in everything from kit to artwork. If the kit doesn't make it to a champion, sometimes te chanpion themes are worked into skins.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Bishop - The Equalizer
My next champion concept will be "Torym - The Phantom of the Dunes." ~~He could be up im the boards as early as this weekend, so stay tuned! I will likely complete his artwork live on Twitch.tv in the coming days!~~ EDIT: Yeeaaaahh no. Not really happening anymore. I might just stick to skin concepts for the time being. Champ progress hasn't been going well.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Hobb - The Mouth of Malice
Made some quality-of-life changes to the lore, and did some text fixes throughout the kit descriptions. Enjoy!
Kloqdq (NA)
: One minor suggestion I can make is with his attack range and the Q passive. I would heavily suggest pushing his attack range to 500-525 range for balancing reasons. Since he can actively get 750 range, having a small base range makes a give and take case where you have to decide, do I stop and mount for range or just keep going? You could also drop the Q mount range to 2 seconds to allow for more frequent swapping.
That's actually a super good point. I might drop the range down to 525 on his standard attacks, but any less would make him basically unviable for ADC'ing in the traditional sense. 3 seconds is also a number I found to be very consistant in terms of bipod delay, because there js no punishment for leaving the stance. a three second standtill alows plenty of deciciveness, and means he would have to be in a safe place. Any less and the mechanic might be abused. EDIT: Changes are live; attack range is now 525 (from 550).
: Thanks for the review! The main reason why it's the Atlas drone that's utilized in the W is so that it effectively moves your autoattack range from Cyrus's position to the target ally. In return, I don't envision the shield being very big.
That is true! It definitely could work as is. However, another can of worms you open by doing that is you essentially become a support Azir if you do that. Your role as an ADC (at least in paper) is not to send your basic attacks towards allies at the price of your own security. That type of thing is something That is partially covered by your E anyway, and it works more-so in your favor - as that is an offensive ability. Just something to keep in mind in terms of your character's identity and to minimize redundancies in your kit.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Bishop - The Equalizer
I've got names for the chroma skins coming soon, as well as a few minor balance changes. Lemme know if I missed anything!
Rioter Comments
: [Champion Concept] Cyrus, the Peacekeeper
Just be aware that a lot of these mechanics (not just visually) have quite a lot in common with Orianna's kit. However, there are still several ways to help block out this character’s identity to forge a path of your own. Keep in mind that, without base stats, ability-specific data, or scaling, it will be rather tough to give strong feedback on anything other than basic kid details, but alas. *Throughout the review, I've included a few blocks of suggestions that I like to call "Bobo's Idea Corner." These are just some little ways that you might look at your kit from a different angle to help push it a bit further. Use them if you will; they are there to set you on a course if you want them to, or could lead you to completely new ideas. __________________ **Passive: Hextech Drones ** This is some pretty interesting stuff. I like this utility – especially that clicking on an enemy means the Atlas Drone will target them for you, and clicking on an ally means the Pulse Drone will target them. It’s pretty straight forward and unique. *For an ADC to have this kind of healing utility is a little dangerous, but because you don’t present any specific scaling stats, it might not be such a glaring issue. It’s just something to keep on the back burner. . . __________________ **Q: Tracking Shot** Hmmmm – this is a particularly interesting ability – a linear poke with a slow that then amplifies the next basic attack. It’s simple, but effective. Not much to take note of here. > *Bobo’s Idea Corner #1*: I would make this ability stem from Cyrus himself. Currently, your kit leaves Cyrus totally open every waking moment, and with a series of drones that are somewhat hard to operate, if you get confused as to where your abilities would come from at any given moment, a simple ability like this one would give you some better options. That way, one aility stems from Cyrus, the passive stems from both drones, one ability comes from Pulse, another one comes from Atlas, and the ult comes from both. It creates a harmonic balance within your kit, and gives your character’s positioning a little more importance as well. > > Pulse drone, thematically speaking, sounds more like your shield, and Atlas drone is more like your sword. To make things less confusing for the player, it might be best to assign one drone with offensive capabilities and the other with defense. > > *Re-tweaking this might mean that you would need to find another way to build healing stacks with your passive (since you currently need the Pulse Drone’s CC outlets to do so), but that might be a necessary sacrifice for the sake of clarity. > > Totally just an idea. __________________ **W: Redeploy** This is the part that really screamed Orianna for me. This ability, in a nutshell, already exists – without the part of it returning to you. It might use some tweaking to get it to be a bit more original, and it’s not like that’s 100% necessary, but I strongly recommend it. > *Bobo’s Idea Corner #2*: Lets say, for instance, that this ability used the Pulse Drone instead. Like I mentioned back in “Bobo’s Idea Corner #1,” Atlas drone is more like your sword, and Pulse drone sounds more like your shield. > > With this in mind, let’s focus on this particular ability on hand; this is a great chance to send out the Pulse Drone instead to deploy the shield. Meaning, *THIS* could be your way of providing heal stacks for your passive – if a shielded player receives damage from enemy abilities, each instance of damage could add a heal token to your passive reserve. > > Again, totally just an idea. > __________________ **E: Quasar** It sounds a lot like a ranged Lissandra W (or, more accurately, a significantly better version of Orianna’s Q). I might not use a ranged stun, but maybe a fear away from the Atlas Drone – like some kind of riot control device. It might make this a little more fair (considering your ADC character also has a ranged slow as well). > *Bobo’s Idea Corner #3*: If you apply my mechanic from *Bobo’s Idea Corner #1*, where your Q (Tracking Shot) stems from Cyrus himself, then you can more easily use Cyrus's aim to mark targets for your amplified basic attack. If the Alpha Drone is deployed, and if Q were still starting from the Atlas Drone, it would be much harder to hit targets, versus the much easier, cone-like view Cyrus would have of the Atlas Drone’s range from afar. > > *The one below is just another idea, unrelated to the last one, that you could use for this ability as well in case you wanted to differentiate it EVEN further; I just included a couple of different ways in which you could go about doing that . . . > *Bobo’s Idea Conrer #4*: If you made the atlas drone targeting a little bit like OG Yoric (IE: if you press E, it empowers an auto attack that tells the atlas drone where to go, and then the drone would zoom behind a target), that might be a way to differentiate your abilities a little more (plus that sort of spellcasting might flow well with basic attack targeting as well) > > Suppose this ability didn’t send-out a circular AoE burst that stunned, but rather made a chain of electricity between the two drones that damaged and stunned targets in a line. In theory, you could send out the Atlas Drone to a target, and if you re-activated the ability, you could damage and stunt targets between you and the Atlas Drone Also, if an ally is fleeing from an enemy, and if you used your passive to send the pulse drone to them, and then cast this E behind the enemy, this ability would strike between the Atlas and Pulse drones. Then, activating ult to taget the space between the drones would be devastating as well. > > Typically, you could also get away with better scaling abilities (both in damage and utility) if they have a linear hitbox influence versus a traditional, circular AoE (and it further separates you from Ori). > __________________ **R: Maelstrom** This is pretty nice, through and through. It has some great comboability – especially with E (Quasar) where you can effectively pin enemies between you and the Atlas drone, CC them, and then blast away. It’s pretty nice, and probably my favorite thing about the kit. Nicely done. __________________ **Art/Appearance:** Art is not a judge-worthy thing for the CCOS, since it is coined as a game design competition (and since making your own art is a rare time investment – serious props for that). Know that I’m more than willing to give you a couple art of tips going forward if you need them, and for now, I’ll do just that: Now I’m not here to comment on art ability – there’s a time and place for that of course – this is just a couple of notes on the appearance and concept work in general. I think a big portion of the concern comes from the drones being balls, and the silhouette that makes. Your character’s humanoid look doesn’t have any truly discernible features other than the helm shape and the ankle pieces, and those kinds of details could be exaggerated to make your character really stand out. You could also make the shape of the drones something other than balls - IE: Octahedrons, Boomerang-like things, etc., etc. Their shape seems to have little impact on their functionality. Keeping them as balls is probably your biggest visual grievance, and it's what most people would likely call you on. I personally don't mind it as much, but it's definitely something to be aware of. A humanoid with a hovering ball is, most definitely, Orianna. A very similar humanoid figure with *two* of them would likely be confusing to a lot of people. Part of what makes League champs so recognizable is that they can be easily recognized by a mere silhouette – they have very discernable, physical features that are unique to their character, and can usually be seen across all of their skins and splash art. These details could even be somewhat subtle, but they still go a long way; like the circular handles around Draven’s axes, or Nidalee’s leg warmer things. Then there's the brass and silver colors of the metal. That might be a little concerning – given that directly ties to Orianna’s pre-existing embroidery palette. Granted, you do have some color coding going on with the drone pair, as well as the brown (leather?) chestpiece and thighs, which certainly helps, but your character still comes off looking strikingly similar to Ori. I’m not saying you should go and change these things, especially because you’ve already worked hard on this one, but these tips just some general things to pay attention to when formulating the look of future champions. __________________ **Lore:** I figure there is definitely more of this coming when you say the expanded lore will be here soon, and I gave you a couple of tips on Discord a little while ago. I’d say that you could further solidify this character’s role as a guardian, by demonstrating just how fearsome these drones can be at apprehending people. You’re already on a pretty decent track as far as narrative and themes are concerned – keep at it! __________________ **Overall:** The thing is, this kit is about a 60/40 split in borrowed/original content - 40% seems to be drawn from a few pre-existing control mage kits (ironically including Orianna). The other 60% is a little more on the original side. It has enough flare of its own within the kit to be different, but it’s teetering on the edge here. . . Cyrus may be an ADC, but he comes across as more of an AD castor at times. He has a frightening amount of CC for a traditional ADC, along with the ability to heal allies. Now, because this concept does not have specific range, cooldowns, or damage statistics, a lot of the nuts and bolts of this kit cannot be put under laborious scrutiny, it seems to stand well enough on its own without those figures present. Cyrus is a pretty solid idea in general, it might be a bit on the Ori side of things, and its ADC identity might be bogged down a bit by your kit mechanics and utility, but you’ve got some content in here that is pretty solid and likable. Well done - definitely keep up the good work!
: > [{quoted}](name=Bobo113,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=z1M7mVf9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-15T13:15:05.372+0000) > > Keep in mind the board you are posting to. For future reference, this kind of tooic would belong in the "Gameplay" or "General Discussion" categories, not "Concepts & Creations." oh my sorry it automatically sets me to concepts an creations since i do a lot of champion concept designs
Oh no worries - I've made similar mistakes in the past. I was just pointing it out in case you were unaware.
: Garen needs nerfs
Keep in mind the board you are posting to. For future reference, this kind of tooic would belong in the "Gameplay" or "General Discussion" categories, not "Concepts & Creations."
Echoing (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Hahna, the Skybane
Thought I'd leave a review; even tough I'm not a "Certified Hater" by any means, I'll give it a go. Know that it might be tough for others to gauge a lot of the specific balance aspects of your concept or the exact role of your champion without a list of base stats, but there's still enough here to go by as is. So, without further ado: **Passive: Savage blow** It's got some Vi stuff happening here, and that's ok. As much as I'm not exactly a fan of basic attack after cast passives (IE: Zoe, Sona, etc., etc.), it works out ok for jumping into a fray. It checks out. Nothing super special - it works for what you need it to do. It's a nice little feature. **Q: Thrash** Mobility #1 in our countdown: There's quite a bit going on with this one, as it seems to be the primary part of her engage strategy -swooping in, grabbing someone (if applicable), and dragging them to another spot. This move is somewhat jam-packed with annoying potential given the amount of sheer CC your kit comes with. This sure is an interesting CC mechanic, but because it is also a basic attack modifier, it is also undodgable to some extent. If this were a skillshot that was independent from incapacitation, and could be re-activated mid-dash on a pivot to change directions to a target location, this might be a healthier way to go about this, and the ability's re-activation wouldn't be so pivotal. **W: Noxian Pyre** Granted, a 500 diameter (with the 250 radius, 125 inner radius in mind) isn't huge, but a ranged, 1.1 second AoE stun at lvl. 1 could be utterly devastating - particularly if it can also potentially apply +120% AD scaling in physical damage tot he center. Now I would understand if an ability like this were the bread and butter of a control mage (featuring great damage with the potential of a risk/reward CC at stake), but I can see the low mana cost and that potential damage scaling being somewhat problematic for a champion who is trying to be more of a dive-in fighter. Of course, this stun is somewhat paramount in setting up the additional CC of Hahna's Q (Thrash), yet there might be a healthier way to introduce this mechanic - that doesn't rely on an AD arching skillshot, and would follow up more with the in-your-face kind of battle your champion fantasy is going for. **E: Scour the Skies** Mobility #2: Pretty well fleshed-out movement mechanic, and I would honestly see this as more along the lines of the engagement style you're looking for. In terms of how to start a fight, W (Noxian Pyre) would give you a decent stun, but if you were more than 400-600 units away, it might be tough to get in for a Q activation to make that drag mechanic work. This, on the other hand, is a much superior ability - not so much in damage or overall impact, but on fulfilling the character's design intent and healthy combos. This also doesn't exactly work as a quick, reactionary dive tool in mid combat - since the journey has a number of minor delays. If a target is stunned by W, and you are not close enough, you wouldn't have the time to soar at them, and re-activate for the knockup in time. W and E seem somewhat disjointed because of this, but each of them still work independantly of each other. I just wouldn't expect too many combos where Q, W, and E are all used in the same play successfully. **R: Scorched Earth** Mobility #3: This is like the "ehhh, E doesn't cut it for me this time" ability. I strongly suggest against having two abilities in the same kit that both have relatively the same function (longer-ranged flight over terrain, attacking targets below). A factor that might be important here, besides the activation delay, is the flight speed. Here I'm picturing something more like Rek'Sai or Taliyah, but then again it could be like out other dragon pal, Aurelion Sol. My fear is that this ability, especially because it is one of 3 mobility outlets that Hahna has, has a 40 second cooldown at lvl. 16 (which could be reduced to 24 with a standard fighter/CDR build). That's pretty crazy - considering it also has AD scaling AoE DPS and a 5,500 unit range - with the ability to then take to the skies again with E (Scour the Skies). *Side Note: Never give Hahna a Crystal Scepter. **Lore:** Lore is pretty solid, it definitely ties the theme and kit together in a neat little bundle, but some burning questions remain (no pun intended); after a career of chronic insubordination, and after upper echelons of the Noxian command wanted to have her killed, she was still ok with sticking with the Noxian forces and climbing the ranks? Did the Noxians not remember that she was literally being put to death, and just had a convenient, ex-machina stroke that made them pull a total 180? Even if she can take on a dragon on even footing, she was basically sent to the gallows for showing similar strength and courage in combat. I’m just not sure why she would still want to be there, and even if she’s just defending the land of Noxus, my other question is, as you often put it, “What is her end-game?” **Overall:** I wasn't totally sure what you were going with at first - a lot of these abilities are somewhere between your typical AD castor, a top lane bruiser, and has some CC and mobility elements one might see on a control or combat mage. It's an odd stew of ideas happening, and their cohesion works fine in theory, but it comes across somewhat linear. With damage scaling like that, you're not exactly a tank, and that kind of mobility rivals most assassins. I'm not exactly sure what category to put Hahna in, but it's a strange one. Whatever she is, with all of her varied utility, range, mobility, etc., she would be the Kalista of top laners. You mention at some point that she might be in an awkward place if she can't make the most of Q (Thrash)'s drag function, and that you'd need either W or E to make that happen, but then again, she would only be screwed if she didn't use up the rest of her escape tool arsenal. She has far more chances to screw up than a lot of other champions of her same damage tier. I can see the conterplay intent here, but you were right when you said that no matter is she screws that up several times, she would still have options and have a place on the team - no matter how bad she's doing (which means resorting to being an AD castor, and barraging people with W's). Definitely some solid work going on here, but I would recommend a look-over – just to explore some other options or angles to see the whole picture. Again, whatever points I made or ideas I posed are merely there as a point of reference that you can take or leave as is.
: It's well designed, but I do not like it. Particularly the ultimate; mechanically it is fine, but if I wanted to listen to a cacophony of unsettling and disturbing "hellish" sounds I'd go play a horror game. This goes too far with the horror theme. _Edit: Commenting here was my mistake, I hadn't realized this was such an old thread. Somebody else must have 'revived' it recently._
Well I suppose everyone's entitled to an Opinion. I for one think the Star Guardian line is far too anime for the likes of this game, but thats just me. And you're not too late on commenting, no worries - especially with the November CCOS happening soon, you might see some reprised concepts popping back up just like this one.
: I’d be willing to judge this time around!
*Psssssst, that's supposed to be anonymous.*
Xidphel (NA)
: >https://media.lolusercontent.com/api/embedly/1/image/resize?url=http%3A%2F%2Fimgur.com%2FeYctVIh.jpg&key=a45e967db0914c7fb472fd4381e6c85b&width=425 So you're planning a Meet the Concept series?
I'm not sure what you mean by that, but I'm just slowly adding my concepts to the same portrait, and expanding it when I need to.
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] November CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
Entering [Hobb - The Mouth of Malice](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/j2avGOxd-champion-concept-hobb-the-mouth-of-malice)
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] October Results Are (Finally) Here!
Hmmm - pleasantly surprised at how that turned out. Barely missed a slot in the top 5/6 slot, but ya can't make something great every time, right? I definitely agree on the lore - I really had to push to make that non-cliché, or without some kind of overdone fantasy war triumph involved. Maybe I figured that kit worked well in theory, and I trimmed more content than I should have, but Hoette's shortcomings are a lot more obvious when put in that kind of a spotlight. I really appreciate the feedback - I might not spend so much time on the art in the future (to allot time to focus on the gameplay elements), but we'll see. . .
: Amen. This is probably the dumbest argument I've ever seen on the forums. Thanks for clearing things up, buddy.
Chrysi7 (NA)
: I said it seemed like it, so don't get snooty with me. Also, I never said things can't happen. That was literally one of my first points. I understand that, yes, life kicks you around, and I sympathize, but it's not fair to us, the ones who made these entries, to wait over a week from the promised deadline. Also, furthermore, the thread isn't even being updated or edited, it still says October 31st. All I'm saying is, either make sure you can actually fulfill your intention of a deadline for judging's ending period, or don't post one. Also, I have done nothing wrong in "insulting" it. It's completely ridiculous. Also, I don't care what you may or may not think of me, I'm not here to please others. So, I'm going to ask you kindly keep your opinions on myself to yourself. I don't want to hear them. Also, love how your posts are being upvoted and mine are being downvoted, which is completely unnecessary and unwanted lol.
My oh my. . . Don't get your panties in a knot because the thread isn't being updated to reflect the delays. It's frustrating, I get it, I really do, but holy hell. On another note, if you want people to be aware of *your* opinions, or every little grievance you might have, but you don't want to hear others, that's great. Sure. Just know that people have opinions of you, and even if they're not vocalizing them, they exist. In fact, I'm sure their opinions of you are rapidly forming as they sift through this ass disaster of a comment thread. You might not care about that, and again, that's just wonderful, but *pleeeaaase* stop. As funny as it is to watch you stomp about in a sort of tantrum and making a fool of yourself, it grows really tiring, and frankly, it isn't helping anything. So I'll ask kindly. Stahhp. *Side Note:* I don't use the upvote/downvote system, it's a little too petty for my taste - I like to actually speak my mind, but other people definitely are using the system. If you truly didn't care what others think of you, and if you aren't here to please others, votes souldn't be such a huge concern, right? Food for thought.
Chrysi7 (NA)
: It was my understanding that generally, one is not both a judge of a contest, and entering said contest. Also, you are putting words into my mouth. Do not accuse my frustrations and belief on how it could/should be done as arrogant, I don't like liars. Also, I'm not sure I understand what you are trying to say. thought they were up to the deadline - thinking it was far too much alotted time. After 3 or so years of running CCOS's, there's a reason the judging period is as long as it is, and most of the time, the results are somewhat delayed. That seems awfully contradictory. So, could you elaborate? Also, funnily enough, neither you nor Skylarke are actually providing points against my argument. Sky came somewhat close enough to pass, but muddled it with defensiveness and assumptions. You.. Haven't said anything of legitimate merit aside from the CCOS could definitely use me, and that I'm supposedly arrogant.
I didn't contradict anything, anywhere. It is true; you cannot judge and submit creations at the same time, but I never said that wasn't the case. . . Also, even with the alotted time the judges have to critique entries here in the CCOS, things can happen; schedules changes, life has a way of kicking you in the ass, and even when they doesn't, time is always of the essence. What I'm saying is that even with the amount of time they give themselves each month, it still comes close a lot of the time. (If I were contradicting myself, I would say the opposite; that they finish early every month. . .which again, I didn't say). What you originally posed was not an argument - you simply wanted answers. There's nothing wrong with that. What you *did* was procede to insult the speed at which it is currently being done, and by doing so, you belittle the process altogether. Skylarke and I are merely pointing out that yes, the results may be late again, but I'd suggest not using it as a platform to boast about how much faster you'd do it if the responsibility were in your lap instead - especially when that may or may not have any merit. It makes you look like an self-absorbed dickwad. That's not a good thing.
: Yeah I need to look back to the overall idea to decide if he's going to be a tank, mage, or a jungler. This whole concept turned out to be quite messier than I thought, but thanks for your opinion on this it really helps me to think how I could make him better and more fun. I will take some time to think about how to change him.
Lemme know if you need any recommendations - I made a potion master champion a while back, and have a few scrapped ideas I might be able to help out with. Potion type champions are serioisly tricky though - it just takes a little bit more work than usual to make fully realized kits for potions. I had a hard tjme deciding if my potionmaker should be a support mage t a battle mage, but it took a long time of toying around with builds before I figred out what I wanted. Again, the current champion definitely works, but there are ways to make your concept really flourish.
: Thergan - The Master Alchemist [Champion Concept Idea]
I think some of the fundementals of this champion are pretty nailed down in terms of balance and thematics, props for that, but I feel like it teeters on the edge of being a bit situational and/or stepping on its feet a bit in the design as a whole. There are some aspects that could use a bit more variety, and a little bit of that can go a long way. **Passive:** the fact that both the teammate and Thergan have to be at base in order for the passive to work seems highly situational. In a typical game, there are rarely times when two players are at base together intentionally. Even if players die, they usually shop during their death counter, and leave the base ASAP. The amount of time and coordination neeeded for this current itteration of the lassive just isn't condusive for the game's typical flow. Now, if this were an ability that augmented the potion usage for anyone standing near Thergan, that would be different. However, that would also be best if Thergan were a tank, and could better benefit by sticking with his teammates. I'm not sayingg thatms an end-all solution, but it mght help to find more practical applications for this passive - since the premise works in theory, but it is kind-of left to the wayside in practice. **Q:** So a stun is a stun, sure, but I can guarantee that with an ability like this, especially with a projected AoE and no slow, nobody would stick around long enough to get stunned. If they do happen to stick around for 3 seconds, 1.5 seconds is a bit hefty for a non-ult ability. Now these two timers kind of balance one-another to a degree, but it is rather strange timing. To make the most of this ability, you would essentially need a stun-lock combo to get people to stay inside of a 300 diameter circle for that long. 300 is not very wide, and in terms of range, 500 is not a very long cast range - leaving you at quite a vulnerable distance. Might be a thought for a more tanky champion to utilize - one that isn't so threatened at decently close quarters. *Interesting choice to make this deal extra damage to monsters - do I sense a potential jungle mage build? **W:** Not quite sure why a battle mage would need a 3-second speed and tenacity boost available every 10 seconds. Sounds like a tank ability to me. **E:** Again, these potion tosses do not go very far. I can see that an ability like this would be an excellent DoT ability given the right circumstance, but so far you have 2 instances of splash AoE damage at the exact same range. It might just be me, but that seems a but redundant to have two abilities that cover the exact same range. *My comments on the Q still applies here as well - the range is somewhat minuscule compared to a lot of other mages, and this is yet another ability with increased damage to monsters. Having two abilities with double monster damage might be a bit much. **R:** It mighty not seem like it, but this ability is rather underpowered. The damage seems about right for this sort of magic damage burst, but the range and AoE are still probably not as big as you think they are. Also, especially for such a small overall area, the mana cost is reasonable, but the cooldown is absolutely crippling. **Overall:** A lot of this champion's abilities come in the form of circular AoE's, and there is very little combo potential there - especially when alone (in places like mid lane and jungle, places where this champion seems to be geared towards, that's not such a good thing). I'd encourage you to explore some ways to change up the abilities a bit more, and you'd be surprised at how many ways you can incorporate the practice of alchemy into battle - besides potion throwing.
Chrysi7 (NA)
: Can, doesnt mean it has to. I could review and rate, using the rubric, every single champion in this list in under 3 hours. Please do not assume I have little experience, or am as naive. Just because you think I am unqualified doesn't mean I actually am. Besides, I was texting the judges/Echo, not you.
Then sign up as a judge this month? If what you say is true, and you are this supposed untapped well of pure talent and speed, they could certainly use you. . . . That being said, many newer judges have come in (not quite as arrogantly, if I might add), and thought they were up to the deadline - thinking it was far too much alotted time. After 3 or so years of running CCOS's, there's a reason the judging period is as long as it is, and most of the time, the results are somewhat delayed.
Echoing (NA)
: [CCOS] October CCOS Entry Time! Enter Here!
So at this point, is it reasonable to expect the November CCOS Entry before the October results? Maybe the November CCOS Entry could be put up in the meantime, and get that ball rolling? The sooner that gets up, the less future judging deadlines would be impacted by this most current delay.
Eggbread (NA)
: There is no need to insult each other in the thread please. Besides, between you and me, I would bet I have more concepts hehe. But, I would agree with him. Grut was pretty broken before the nerfs.
It's one thing for them to give you decent feedback, but it's another thing to talk down like that. That being said, I'll remember to stay silent the next time a narcissist tries to step all over you again. . . Enjoy the bumps btw.
Terakali (NA)
: I have made 12 discussions for champions, but I read through this chat and make entire kits on demand. Counting comments, I'm easily into the 40's, and that's ignoring my previous accounts.
Man o' man; I'd take a handful of quality champions over 40 or so champions that are made "on demand." Someone who has 6 concept creations under their belt might have more design merit than someone with over 40; it all comes down to quality. I wouldn't recommend spouting your mouth about your elitist POV and/or how justified it might be - it doesn't make me want to take your word for anything, and sure as hell doesn't give me confidence in your word either. . . I'm definitely not the only one.
: Her face doesn't look like Diana's
I implore you to go look at Sivir's skin splashes, and tell me sivir has a specific "face." In fact, go look at most champion splash art, compare the faces in their respective skin art, and try and tell me they have any kind of specific continuity.
: This looks really fun so i'll just give my 2 cents. P: it's thematic but feels funny to need to use a skillshot to pick it up. Q: what's the % health he gets back? Enemy minions can't trigger the trap? and can you use Q when you have no arms? W: well most of the monsters have a fear so why not. like the separation of prey. E: Am I looking at this as casting like victors E or taliyahs W? R: Magic resist not available yet? cast range and Dia of cloud? I like the idea and the quotes are great. That lore though, how long did it take you to make it?
Many of the % values are still very much a WIP, but I will answer as much as I possibly can: Passive: I'm making Hobb's passive more like an "Interact button" when targeting a passive node. That will definitely be in the champ build soon - along with a small handful of QoL changes. The fact that I forgot to add this in my first iteration does make that sound clunky, but that IS something I already intended to clarify and change. EDIT: It has been changed. The passive no longer has anything to do with Q. Q: Anyone can trigger the trap. In the world of LoL targeting, monsters also include lane creep. In terms of the arm detachment, much like how Sivir can throw her weapon over and over w/o it coming back to her, the arm is the same way - it just makes a duplicate. That's how most of league's abilities are animated. E: More like Viktor's, if you wanna compare it to something. R: The skillshot range data is still a WIP. The cloud is not really a cloud - it only effects targets (or a single target) hit by the ability. It follows them like a curse. *Upcoming changes will feature more specific ability data and other clarifying info.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Hobb - The Mouth of Malice
Happy Halloween everyone! Hope you enjoyed this *spooooopy* champion concept! I'm gonna be making changes here and there over the coming hours - stay tuned for even more VO quotes on the way!
Rioter Comments
Merkel (NA)
: Mordekaiser needs a COOL skin
We probably won't see a new skin until a little while after his eventual VU (whenever that might be). That being said, I'm actually surprised Morde actually needs a VU. . . His model is fine as is - it's just that ever since his gameplay rework, his abilities look bland and uninspired. That's about it. *Side Note: Eternum Mordekaiser or would be pretty great.
: You realize, that fighting. Jumping. And all that stuff is a bit hard for a female to be fat? And that's pretty much what they do... Literally none of them can get fat giving the fact that nearly all of them are fighters and the none-fighters are having a hard life where they dont actually eat like crazy... And don't say Gragas... Gragas is drinking and eating whole day and yet you can still see his arms and legs been actually pretty large and strong to support that weight. Plus men have that ability to same time be fat and fit... Never understood how but hey... men, right? :D
Gragas and Tahm Kench happen to be large, but then again their kits are directly related to their consumption and fullfillment of dionysian appetites. That's a pretty obvious and over-arching theme with them. When weight has something to do with the champions continuity, it makes sense to design them that way. I'm all for inclusion and what not, but only when it makes sense to do so. I am not a fan of implementing some kind of body type simply for the sake of inclusion - as much as that would make everyone happy for like, 5 seconds. Once Riot decides to pursue designing another champion rooted in greed or gluttony, then power to them to decide the gender. Otherwise, we're just filling space in the champion pool for the sake of filling space. We don't need a plus-size Katarina-type champion just to fullfill a niche - that sort of design choice should be fluid, intentional, and actually contribute to the character in ways other than some SJ gimmick. EDIT: There's more than one guy. . .
Nate GG (NA)
: Chess King Azir
- Chessmaster Azir (King) - Chessmaster Lissandra (Queen) - Chessmaster Kassadin (Bishop) - Chessmaster Hecarim (Knight) - Chessmaster Malphite (Rook) I made a champion concept that was based on a chess piece a few years ago, and I really feel like this aesthetic has serious potential.
Bobo113 (NA)
: [Champion Concept] Hoette - The Craigbreaker
So the poll results are in! It looks like the next champion I'll be releasing is: "Hobb - The Mouth of Malice" If you like creepy concepts, this'll be the one for you. Hobb's complete kit and art will probably be arriving on the C&C board sometime around Halloween! Stay tuned!
: "You must include a meaningful review of another community member's work and provide a link to it in your linked concept,. Failure to do so will result in disqualification. If you have to ask what "meaningful" is, give them the kind of review you would want to see on your concept." Can someone explain this to me like i'm 5 plz? i am not really understanding what is written here
Usually, what people do for meaningful reviews is to write a point-by-point list of the things they either like or don't like about a particular champion. It is most often a combination of both - since no concept is perfect, and no concept is totally bad (unless it is intentionally that way). It helps to give honest, genuinely helpful feedback - the more info you give them to work with, the better. An "unmeaningful" review is someone who has nothing good to say, and will just leave something like, "this is bad," or "I like it. Rito please."
: Gennos, Bane of the Angels
I'm a little bit conflicted by some of what I'm reading here, but there definitely is a working champion in here. ________ **Passive:** There isn't a whole lot to say here, and I'd say it's a pretty decent passive. I prefer this kind of thing over the never-ending horde of 3-hit passives we've seen in-game lately. ________ **Q:** Riot has been making a very strong effort to eliminate point/click poke mechanics - since they are generally unhealthy and unfun to both play with and against. This ability might be more fulfilling with a higher skill ceiling (perhaps in the form of a skillshot), and maybe with a lower cooldown at lvl. 1. Of course, numbers can be changed and whatnot, but right now the ability mildly suffers for being a relatively uninspired ability. If there were a way to make the ability interesting, or provide some kind of satisfying risk/reward, it would be a vast improvement. ________ **W:** For some champions, this level of AoE CC with AP-scaling DoT is an ult-level ability (even without the +120% AP scale). If the damage were toned down a bit, it would still be broken to a degree. Your saving grace would be if the "range" you use for this AoE represents the diameter from Gennos, and not the diameter. It might be a little similar to Lissandra's W, but at least it wouldn't have the god-like power it currently has. ________ **E:** I'm gonna go ahead and assume that you mean this ability marks enemies, and not allies. That being said, both the passive and the actives of this ability have ult-like potential. They are dangerously OP by design - even without the math involved. - Passive: I feel like this would actually be a satisfying ability - *IF*, and only if it were toned down. As it stands, having an ability like this is a little bit anti-fun, but if the enemy had some kind of warning before it was applied, they could plan around it, and maybe have time to change strategy or counter it in some way. Part of what makes this ability unfair is the range aspect - where you can deal an hndisclosed amount of damage globally just by switching the mark on a champion. If this mark only lasted 2 seconds or so, and could be applied via other means, even that would be a very strong damage deterrent - enough so to make an ult out of. - Active: Sure, 750 is not a gigantic leap, but given its current cooldown, and the ability to switch targets out of battle at will, it gets a little bit out of hand. It might need some limitations beyond the blink distance. ________ **R:** This seams a little bit strangely worded - it sounds a little bit like a lengthened ignite healing debuff, and I assume this debuff is supposed to be a dueling ability, but it doesn't seem to be strong - especially since it scales from less than 5% of the target's damage. Not even the 10 second duration is enough to make the most of this ability. FOr as ridiculously strong as some of the other abilities are in terms of overall design, this ability actually feels more down to Earth, but maybe *too* down to Earth. ________ **Lore:** The introduction of angels/demons within the lore is sort-of a risky can of worms to open - especially when you directly reference Darkins like Aatrox. I know this was definitely a work with some very great passion involved, but fitting this story within the confines of the existing universe is somewhat tough to picture. Just thought I'd put that out there - since what you've got here works, it's just a pretty big pill to swallow. ________ **Overall:** I think this idea can definitely be fleshed out and explored a bit more, but as it stands, it definitely has a target direction. It's not too horribly scatter brained in terms of what it wants to be, but it might need some tweaking to the gameplay elements before it is fully realized. Definitely keep at it!
: Interesting Concept. A few questions about the passive, does it deal on-hit effects twice? Does IE effect the first strike, the second strike, or both? Q- A fairly straightforward dash attack, nothing much to say here. W- Quick question, can this ability be re-activated to cancel it? Otherwise his Q, his only escape and engage, is locked onto it. E- Intesting enough, just under the Buff section, you have armor listed as 40% reduction, might want to fix that. Ult - Seems like a good version of Yasuo's wall, I shudder to imagine him and Yasuo on the same team. Overall, seems like a good concept, with a decent skill ceiling, and learning curve. Good luck in the CCOS.
Passive: the AoE is present for both instances of damage, but on-hit effects should only apply to the first one. I should definitely clarify. Q: N/A W: Half of the point of having an ability this versitile is that its usage can be risky. Ult can also be used to escape as well, and that's yet another instance where careful planning comes into play (and can allow for healthy counterplay). However, anything more than that would give Hoette far too much mobility potential - a tank with multiple escape mechanics at one's disposal somewhat defeats the purpose of being a tank. E: The 40 should have a "+" before it. Thanks for pointing that out. R: N/A Glad you left a review!
: Joke: I take my armor... for granite{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
Kloqdq (NA)
: I really like this kind of champion. He sounds rather simple yet is pretty interesting in how he works. I love the idea of his ultimate a LOT as well. That would probably be one of my favourites if it was actually in game because of how it works. For sure a neat idea and could be a pretty solid theme overall.
Thank you so much! That really means a lot!
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