Ralanr (NA)
: The more reliable your CC is on a tank, the less skill is presented.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-24T01:02:08.778+0000) > > The more reliable your CC is on a tank, the less skill is presented. Implying carries need skill to rightclick you once and watch you melt.
Paroe (NA)
: @thread A reliable tank is one which is relevant even in the late game. Riot does NOT want tanks to relevant past the mid game, and any tank who is needs to be nerfed heavily ASAP. What riot needs to do is, as a class, make tank itemization have thresholds with HP and then increase tank base HP to meet those thresholds while lowering bruiser, fighter, assassin, and marksman HP so that they DONT meet those thresholds. Tanks will never be balancable as long as theyre "i got ahead and am now unkillable while dishing out lots of good CC and peel" and "Im behind because i went even in lane and am now a CC bot who can do nothing but engage and facetank for my god the marksman".
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:38:20.665+0000) > > @thread > A reliable tank is one which is relevant even in the late game. > Riot does NOT want tanks to relevant past the mid game, and any tank who is needs to be nerfed heavily ASAP. > > What riot needs to do is, as a class, make tank itemization have thresholds with HP and then increase tank base HP to meet those thresholds while lowering bruiser, fighter, assassin, and marksman HP so that they DONT meet those thresholds. > Tanks will never be balancable as long as theyre "i got ahead and am now unkillable while dishing out lots of good CC and peel" and "Im behind because i went even in lane and am now a CC bot who can do nothing but engage and facetank for my god the marksman". Yeah, Riot don't want tanks to be relevant, which means they don't want them playable. That's the point of the thread. I'm not sure I follow that last part though. How is a class centered around durability and peel being played for their durability and peel a bad thing?
JZ Jora (NA)
: ????????????? you're kidding right
> [{quoted}](name=JZ Jora,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=p5O2TBvN,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-06-24T00:32:58.158+0000) > > ????????????? you're kidding right Please, tell me where I said anything that isn't objectively true.
Rioter Comments
: Tanks with multiple cc abilities are definately still viable, as well as some other champs. So you have no tanks? {{champion:53}} suddenly becomes rediculously good. 4 out of 5 targets are basically instakilled with a grab, with the 5th taking a little more work.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkRitual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xGXTN428,comment-id=002f0000,timestamp=2017-06-23T01:32:08.766+0000) > > Tanks with multiple cc abilities are definately still viable, as well as some other champs. > > So you have no tanks? {{champion:53}} suddenly becomes rediculously good. 4 out of 5 targets are basically instakilled with a grab, with the 5th taking a little more work. Except carries frequently have just as much cc and it's not as unreliable either.
: Junglers are buying Knight's Vow, Toplaners are back to being a living bait for enemy ADC
At this point full-on dedicated tanks are 100% a liability. They die _faster_ than carries while dishing out 0 damage and Riot has recently been super big on making tanks' cc (and _only_ tanks) "unreliable" so now tanks don't even have that. They have nothing. Tanks serve no purpose anymore, you're best off just picking 3 carries a support and a bruiser. After all, carries do everything tanks do but better, and more reliably.
: My thought process whenever I lane against a pantheon.
I've found success against him with {{champion:79}} . The trick is putting flat armor and hp in your runes, but taking {{item:1056}} instead of {{item:1054}} to start. The reason being mana is the only lane stat you really need. For Gragas mana sustain equals health sustain to survive the spear spam, and you can farm with Q to avoid getting all-inned. Also, Grag E > Panth W if he tries it.
: I mean... support soraka was OP asF in lane too. gave mana, her heals gave armor it was like WTF?
> [{quoted}](name=RainbowIcee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvxiphTe,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2017-06-11T13:58:23.719+0000) > > I mean... support soraka was OP asF in lane too. gave mana, her heals gave armor it was like WTF? Oh definitely; but Soraka was practically unmatchable for most top laners at the time. Starcall basically couldn't miss and shredded MR, and you couldn't just go in to kill her because she could W herself.
Jo0o (NA)
: Oh god, please don't let top Soraka become a thing.
> [{quoted}](name=Jo0o,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tvxiphTe,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-06-10T18:47:44.994+0000) > > Oh god, please don't let top Soraka become a thing. Top Soraka being a thing is what got her slapped with her last rework.
abdul569 (EUW)
: I really love abilities that reward hitting skillshots with lower cds
Ezreal actually needs less of it since his Q is on a 2s cd even without the refresh. It just makes him not have cds late game.
: Calling Yasuo mains to save his rework
I know this is gonna sound like the same old same old but honestly I think a lot of it is the double crit and/or his ult APen. I know a while back bruiser Yasuo was the big thing and to "kill" it they made it more mandatory to build crit (ult APen only works on crits) like they originally intended for him... but he doesn't actually _need_ to build crit. At least, not the way other crit carries do. Every crit carry has their IE + Zeal item spike, but the difference is with other hypercarries that puts them at 50%; they _need_ a third item to crit consistently and a _fourth_ if they wanna hit 100%. Yas? {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} boom you're at 100% crit with _four item slots left_ to still go bruiser anyway. Only needing two crit items while also needing _no_ pen items makes his building too open-ended and lets him be viable against literally everything. He doesn't need to lose both, but he needs to lose one. Either no double crit, or no built-in Last Whisper.
: It's time to revisit why Kench cannot devour a buff after three attacks like he can champions
Honestly with {{champion:427}} (and sort of {{champion:134}} ) existing there's no excuse for Tahm _not_ to be able to eat buffs.
: i had 3 wins 10 defeats on Sona in master tier before playing her against zyra/malz was literally asking to lose
> [{quoted}](name=Janna X RubicK,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iRAR867p,comment-id=002c0000,timestamp=2017-06-09T17:42:14.130+0000) > > i had 3 wins 10 defeats on Sona in master tier before > playing her against zyra/malz was literally asking to lose That was Zyra and Malz being way up in what folks like me call the "freewin" tier, not Sona being weak.
: The support role has never been so fun and balanced
{{champion:37}} has literally never not been viable but otherwise yeah, the role has opened up since nukebot 1, nukebot 2, and _the yordle_ left.
: Saw that post showing his friend when he started playing, this was my friend in 2014
abdul569 (EUW)
: I find it amazing that just a few weeks ago we got people complaining how he was unplayable, the rework ruined him etc. It always seemed like a numbers problem rather than gameplay and he just got overtuned in that regard this time.
> [{quoted}](name=abdul569,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hUKNjGvl,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-06-07T16:37:31.718+0000) > > I find it amazing that just a few weeks ago we got people complaining how he was unplayable, the rework ruined him etc. It always seemed like a numbers problem rather than gameplay and he just got overtuned in that regard this time. The rework did ruin him. They "fixed" it by massively overbuffing his numbers.
GraviTea (EUW)
: Let me always click lantern if i can always attack a Champion.
Disagree. Currently there isn't a counter to him giving his allies a get out of jail free card aside from Poppy's W. Anything that makes Thresh lantern stronger is a bad idea, period. It's the spell that lets his allies play like complete idiots and escape with no punishment.
Raiyza (NA)
: Ok so let's just forget all about armor for this one guys. You do know that the high damage is what Riot intended right? It's the same concept as Twitch being able to melt entire teams once late game comes. That's the WHOLE POINT of ADCs. If your team is letting Draven melt you like that, again, youre doing something wrong. Either your tank is being a complete idiot, or nobody has any sense of positioning. Asssassins are a good way of killing draven. Draven is not to be 1v1d late game. Common knowledge. No ADC should be 1v1d late game except by Champs like Fiora.
> [{quoted}](name=Raiyza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2017-06-07T02:30:09.257+0000) > > Ok so let's just forget all about armor for this one guys. > > You do know that the high damage is what Riot intended right? It's the same concept as Twitch being able to melt entire teams once late game comes. That's the WHOLE POINT of ADCs. If your team is letting Draven melt you like that, again, youre doing something wrong. Either your tank is being a complete idiot, or nobody has any sense of positioning. Asssassins are a good way of killing draven. > > Draven is not to be 1v1d late game. Common knowledge. No ADC should be 1v1d late game except by Champs like Fiora. Yeah no, he has far too easy a time doing it. He's supposed to be mechanically intensive, but the axe mechanic is incredibly forgiving even if you're terrible at it. You can have two queued up at a time and press q again the instant you drop one meaning you get a minimum of 3 without needing to catch any. RFC puts his first auto at 700 range which is safe enough to nuke most people or harass the front liner since he'll have Pen by that point. And nah, Draven > Assassins that are even with him in gold. They go in, he cc's them and one-taps them. It's not a matter of trying to 1v1 him deliberately. It's a matter of it being too easy for him to just de-exist someone with no effort or thought required. Also it's funny you should mention Twitch since he's objectively broken right now, for exactly what you described.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-06-06T23:19:53.390+0000) > > There's no exaggeration whatsoever. Draven is now and has _always_ been the "kills other carries in one auto" carry. At level 18 before Runes/Masteries Draven has 108 AD by default. With a full-on crit build: {{item:3072}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3036}} he ends up at 303 AD with 2.5x crit damage. His crit auto will do 707 plus 257(85% total AD) from Q plus 300 from shiv proc crit plus 400 from rfc proc crit for a grand total of _1,664_ damage from _one auto._ Without Runes, Masteries, or any in-match buffs like a Janna shield or Infernal Drake. Adding those extra bonuses in he _easily_ breaks one-shot territory against other carries. It isn't an exaggeration; Draven kills carries in a single, unavoidable auto in late-game. If you're taking 3 or more autos to kill carries at 6 items when you're playing Draven, either you're bad at Draven or your build is bad. Period. Without third-party intervention (infernal drakes, huge ad buffs from janna) 1,664 dmg is not enough to oneshot anyone at lvl 18, especially because 700 of that is magic damage and gets reduced by 30-40% by base mr, not including the physical damage that gets reduced as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Theorchero,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-07T01:49:08.714+0000) > > Without third-party intervention (infernal drakes, huge ad buffs from janna) > > 1,664 dmg is not enough to oneshot anyone at lvl 18, especially because 700 of that is magic damage and gets reduced by 30-40% by base mr, not including the physical damage that gets reduced as well. Carries have low base MR and Armor and scale exactly 0 MR per level. Example: Level 18 Ashe, also with no peripherals has 1,949 hp and 82.4 armor roughly 40% physical reduction, and 30 MR about 30% magic reduction.. We're looking at 1700 off a single auto with _no_ peripherals. Just items and his base AD. In this no peripherals scenario Draven's auto is 1000 physical 700 magic rounded. After base Armor/MR we get 600 phys. and 350 magic. Still breaking 1k, and still half the target's max hp. So two autos rather than one. Draven can have two axes queued, so no axe-catching or meaningful mechanical skill required. Just one more auto, and this build has 110% bonus AS, plus the 65% from Blood Rush, easily breaking 2.0 AS. Anyone above level 30 (and especially ADC mains) are gonna have a full Rune/Mastery set-up. If they're a Draven main there's a good chance there's some combination of AD, Lethality, Crit Damage, and/or AS in there. The other carry will be running something similar (of course most ADs still take the 9 flat armor so there's that.) But either way, offense outweighs defense here by a lot. Ultimately, I admit, it probably won't be 100% of their max hp without extenuating circumstances (an Infernal Drake lead, Baron bonus AD, etc.) but dropping easily 1300-1400 out of their base 1900 on the first auto; _with a second axe ready, no axe-catching required_ and 2.0+ AS, it's way too high. Not to mention, we're assuming they'll be on even footing. They usually won't. Immense in-lane damage and a gold-gen passive mean Draven is usually always ahead. The long and short of it is, he does too much damage for how forgiving the mechanic gating it is.
Raiyza (NA)
: No, that is a clear exagguration. If you die in one auto, you're doing something horribly wrong. Hell even two autos. Very rarely do I get a kill with just 3 autos at that point in the game (If it does happen, the enemy carry is a complete idiot.). If he's running at you with an MS boost, hes throwing up a flag HEY IM COMING. HIT ME. Your team has to be very slow minded to miss that opportunity. Also he's been throwing those autos at level 1 since his release. He's only being complained about now because of DD, which to me isn't even a problem. It only lets him survive a little easier.
> [{quoted}](name=Raiyza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-06T22:09:28.339+0000) > > No, that is a clear exagguration. > > If you die in one auto, you're doing something horribly wrong. Hell even two autos. Very rarely do I get a kill with just 3 autos at that point in the game (If it does happen, the enemy carry is a complete idiot.). If he's running at you with an MS boost, hes throwing up a flag HEY IM COMING. HIT ME. Your team has to be very slow minded to miss that opportunity. > > Also he's been throwing those autos at level 1 since his release. He's only being complained about now because of DD, which to me isn't even a problem. It only lets him survive a little easier. There's no exaggeration whatsoever. Draven is now and has _always_ been the "kills other carries in one auto" carry. At level 18 before Runes/Masteries Draven has 108 AD by default. With a full-on crit build: {{item:3072}} {{item:3031}} {{item:3006}} {{item:3087}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3036}} he ends up at 303 AD with 2.5x crit damage. His crit auto will do 707 plus 257(85% total AD) from Q plus 300 from shiv proc crit plus 400 from rfc proc crit for a grand total of _1,664_ damage from _one auto._ Without Runes, Masteries, or any in-match buffs like a Janna shield or Infernal Drake. Adding those extra bonuses in he _easily_ breaks one-shot territory against other carries. It isn't an exaggeration; Draven kills carries in a single, unavoidable auto in late-game. If you're taking 3 or more autos to kill carries at 6 items when you're playing Draven, either you're bad at Draven or your build is bad. Period. EDIT: Turns out League's own site is hilariously out of date and max Q isn't +85% total AD. It's plus _105%_ with an extra flat 50. So that 257 up there should be 384, an extra 130 higher than what I initially stated. So yeah, 1900 off one auto. A literal oneshot.
Raiyza (NA)
: That's a positioning problem then brah. The carry shouldnt be anywhere near draven.
> [{quoted}](name=Raiyza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=00000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-06T21:57:40.247+0000) > > That's a positioning problem then brah. The carry shouldnt be anywhere near draven. No, it's a Draven problem. He can clear his way through enemy peel with his E, run up with the MS boost from W, land one auto and his team wins the entire teamfight for free because the enemy carried died to one auto. He can damn near do that shit in lane too. 120 damage autos at level 1 aren't acceptable.
Raiyza (NA)
: Draven is not broken. He is rewarded by consistently catching his axes. Any champion with displacement can ruin Dravens day. Hell, even cait can place a trap on the axe space if shes quick enough.
> [{quoted}](name=Raiyza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rNIvwieA,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-06-06T19:29:40.625+0000) > > Draven is not broken. He is rewarded by consistently catching his axes. Any champion with displacement can ruin Dravens day. Hell, even cait can place a trap on the axe space if shes quick enough. Until 5-6 items where he drops a 2.5k crit and kills the enemy carry in one auto. No need to reset the auto at that point, just press Q again.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bouncemaster Zac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xtUQf3dB,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-06-05T04:32:32.504+0000) >His ult is literally an objectively better Amumu ult. You need the Amumu ult first so that people don't just walk out of Kennen's ult.
> [{quoted}](name=00MarkofKaine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xtUQf3dB,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-06-05T04:38:00.514+0000) > > You need the Amumu ult first so that people don't just walk out of Kennen's ult. "Just walk out" when he can _move_ it, and is also faster than you because of his e. It's better than Amumu's in all 3 categories: More damage, stronger cc, and it can't miss.
: How many times is Kennen going to start building AD before he gets reworked?
The problem is Kennen himself. Endless harass, a solid chunk of which is targeted, along with great burst and mostly unavoidable hard cc. His ult is literally an objectively better Amumu ult.
: Dawnbringer Riven is not, how you say, overly "thicc"
She _is_ slightly more filled out than default Riven.
: Are we going to stop pretending Pantheon isn't a problem right now?
I made a thread like this a month or two ago and just got mocked and told the usual useless answers. Glad to see that was a fluke and people actually hate Panth. He deserves it.
: Finally, a rune that perfectly summarizes my League experience
MS towards people you've cc'd? Hello {{champion:9}}
: He's not necessarily strong, but he is sure annoying (kinda like Yas in that regard - he may be balanced but he's not fun to play against for many people)
> [{quoted}](name=underscores222,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nx3GAgAh,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2017-06-04T02:42:37.030+0000) > > He's not necessarily strong, but he is sure annoying (kinda like Yas in that regard - he may be balanced but he's not fun to play against for many people) The main difference though is that Teemo is only truly annoying when you're new and can't figure out how to deal with a ranged harass in Top. Yasuo remains practically impossible for many people to answer no matter how experienced they are. Teemo eventually fades into "not that bad" or even "troll pick, ez win for his opponent."
Doozku (NA)
: Riot needs to communicate more with Champion Mains when it comes to big Reworks, Nerfs, or Buffs
Rework Zac for no reason. He comes out utterly useless and much less fun. "Fix" it by overbuffing his Q so hard that that one spell spikes his WR from "useless" to "freelo." Great fucking rework guys. Not only do I not get to play him now since he's perma-ban; when I _do_ get to play him it isn't fun or satisfying anymore. Not a single word of communiction before hand. Just "this is happening, deal with it."
: He's sort of like Teemo, he triggers something primal in players that innately makes you unhappy around him.
> [{quoted}](name=OurLestrade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Nx3GAgAh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-03T11:42:48.655+0000) > > He's sort of like Teemo, he triggers something primal in players that innately makes you unhappy around him. Tbh I and most people I'm aware of stop feeling that way once they learn how to abuse Teemo's low range and lack of defense. "Hating" Teemo is a meme at this point; nobody actually thinks he's strong. (Because he isn't.)
: That's not what he's asking for. Reread the op. He's asking for averaged damage that is more consistent.
> [{quoted}](name=SnakDatSmilesBak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1YlEdO3n,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2017-06-03T04:40:40.577+0000) > > That's not what he's asking for. Reread the op. He's asking for averaged damage that is more consistent. The only suggested change in the original post is to add on a crit scaling without any other alterations. It's asking for a straight buff.
: Can we give GP's barrels the Xayah/Caitlyn treatment?
I'm not sure how making his barrels hit even harder would make him less frustrating to play against.
: This board needs stricter ruling in terms of what kind of content's allowed
Honestly I've had an idea or two for threads concerning Yasuo and what I personally think the _actual_ problems with him are and some ideas on it but... there's already 10-15 front-page threads all saying "fuck Yasuo delete pls" so I don't bother posting because I know my honest ideas will get drowned under the hate threads.
: Riot, if you needed proof towers need to do more damage...
Bumping for the folks who tried to view before I made the video public. Cuz' I'm dum.
: Laughing Fish's 175,000 lifetime upvote spectacular (Come and get your free skins!)
https://media.tenor.co/images/e02683bdb05a01f755795eef179dbc47/raw Well Mr. Laughing Fish direct image uploads aren't a thing on the Boards so I hope that link worked.
: Thats like asking why can lucian q miss. It just can if done right dont bitch
> [{quoted}](name=False 001,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8Nap2WzE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-06-01T16:30:10.718+0000) > > Thats like asking why can lucian q miss. It just can if done right dont bitch "An ultimate that requires setup being able to miss is like an adc's spammable bread-and-butter being able to miss."
: This video is private
> [{quoted}](name=WAAAAAAAAAAAAAGH,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=05QvUmAJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-06-01T02:33:21.046+0000) > > This video is private I have made a mistake. Thanks for telling me, I made it public.
Rioter Comments
Doodlzzz (NA)
: Games are being decided before the 10 minute mark and it's makin me sad
It's been this way for two seasons. Riot likes it this way. It won't change.
Zeanix (OCE)
: New Skins actually look amazing!
That Yasuo skin is like Aku but on fire. I like it.
meowwow7 (NA)
: psa: relic shield
The item has been in the game for years, and on top of that you can alt+click to ping number of stacks now. At this point, I believe there aren't any adcs left who don't know what the item does and they're doing it on purpose because they don't want their support to have gold.
Elikain (EUNE)
: Yea, no. Looks cool to me. I find if funny how people want to remove all other forms of power and just be stuck with what a champion has to offer. If that's the case, might as well play Heroes of the Storm, where heroes are inherently strong and scale by themselves per level instead of relying on stat sticks like runes, masteries and even items (no in-game gold too!). What you want out of League is not going to happen. This is how League always worked so these systems are not going to get removed. This is what sets League apart from all other samey-same MOBAs. If you come here and say "i want stripped down League experience" then you're no longer playing League, are you?
> [{quoted}](name=Elikain,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gFoiYuMZ,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2017-05-30T22:45:39.894+0000) > > Yea, no. > Looks cool to me. I find if funny how people want to remove all other forms of power and just be stuck with what a champion has to offer. If that's the case, might as well play Heroes of the Storm, where heroes are inherently strong and scale by themselves per level instead of relying on stat sticks like runes, masteries and even items (no in-game gold too!). > > What you want out of League is not going to happen. > This is how League always worked so these systems are not going to get removed. This is what sets League apart from all other samey-same MOBAs. If you come here and say "i want stripped down League experience" then you're no longer playing League, are you? First off, that isn't what I said at all. Second, I play several MOBAs (HOTS being the most recent, ironically), and League has always been my favorite... until things started shifting in a blatantly and endlessly negative manner around pre-season 6. To me this just seems like another in a never-ending string of bad decisions that have been made over the past couple of years. If you can honestly look at the mess Keystones have caused since their introduction and say making them even more overbearing is a good idea, I don't know what to tell you. It's going to be the same thing, but worse. Champion's kits themselves are going to be overshadowed by "who can abuse the Keystones the hardest." Remember Yasuo and Trynd with the first version of Warlord's? Their own kit no longer mattered outside the fact that they had free crit. They became one-stat Champions that synergised so hard with the Keystone for that stat that they were untouchable. I don't want a "stripped-down" League; I want a League that actually plays like a MOBA instead of a glorified brawler that has map objectives tacked on as an afterthought. _Every_ MOBA has something that makes them unique; they aren't all samey-same. If the only thing that makes League unique is a failed "free passives" system that they've struggled with since day one, then League isn't exactly a good moba, is it?
: Instead of having 30 runes and 30 mastery points, we're getting a fewer number of things. So those fewer things will likely tend to have a higher amount of power into them.
> [{quoted}](name=DarkRitual,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gFoiYuMZ,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-05-30T20:29:19.150+0000) > > Instead of having 30 runes and 30 mastery points, we're getting a fewer number of things. So those fewer things will likely tend to have a higher amount of power into them. That's the problem. From the preview of the few they've shown, even runes other than the Keystones provide passives that are big enough to be immediately visible in-game. People are going to have to struggle to figure out what all extra passives have been slapped on to enemy Champions, and it's going to force everyone to re-learn the entire game. And not in a good way. Presumably Keystones will still be visible on the load screen and in the Overlay, but what about "lesser" Runes like Overheal? You won't know who has what until you see it go off, which means League is going to change from a skill and strategy game to a guessing game. That's bad.
: "Runes Reforged", the future of pre-game choices is here folks!
"New keystones will be more powerful than any pre-game choice we've had before." That just immediately put me off from listening to the rest of it. It's bad. Keystones have been a balance nightmare since they were introduced because they give _too much_ power that people aren't ready for because it isn't part of the Champion they're facing, it's just a buttload of extra stats thrown on. Now they're making them _more_ powerful? It's gonna be bad. Pre-game passives are gonna be outweighing ultimates if it goes as bad as I'm expecting.
: So what is the reasoning for downvoting this post? Garen is genuinely hot dogshit garbage past low diamond by any objective metric, so where is the debate?
> [{quoted}](name=PermabannedGaren,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=336FL2xx,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-05-30T13:59:44.984+0000) > > So what is the reasoning for downvoting this post? Garen is genuinely hot dogshit garbage past low diamond by any objective metric, so where is the debate? The debate, for me personally, is that low Diamond is somehow a "bad" or "low" ELO despite being in the top 3% of players.
: ffs plat is not low elo
Percentage-wise Plat is already Top-Tier. Gold is "Above Average" Tier. Simply due to how huge the playerbase is and how hard the skill levels across elos spike, it isn't a gradual thing. It doesn't go from Godawful to Bad to Okay to Solid to Good to Great. It's more like... Bad to Solid to Great and Greater. something like a combined 3/4 of the playerbase is in Bronze and Silver. If you're even in _low_ Gold, you're still top 25% of players. It's an incredibly steep curve, and the belief that anyone who isn't Challenger is shit and their opinions are invalid is honestly laughable.
: If you say GG EZ you ARE a jackass
A lot of people in this thread trying really hard to justify being an asshole. :thinking:
: Why is shyvanas passive so terrible?
Rito actually addressed some concerns when they previewed the change saying "don't worry, she'll be strong enough without stacking every dragon." Which is true. Of course, that in turn means that she's _more_ than "strong enough" when she manages to start stacking drags and goes straight into OP "I beat you with raw numbers, no outplaying allowed" territory. They didn't make her feast or famine. They made her feast or banquet.
Fawksea (EUW)
: i dislike it for one thing, they made him into the biggest examples of "drain tank" i've ever seen, his lifesteal without any actual damage items is one of the stupidest thing's i've seen, and yet they gut swain and vlad for being even close to becoming drain tanks
> [{quoted}](name=Fawksea,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5EV5yGmB,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-05-26T15:00:24.011+0000) > > i dislike it for one thing, they made him into the biggest examples of "drain tank" i've ever seen, his lifesteal without any actual damage items is one of the stupidest thing's i've seen, and yet they gut swain and vlad for being even close to becoming drain tanks Consider the three Champions you're talking about. Then consider: which one is melee?
: Remember when Ziggs was the most "OP" Champ?
Some kind of response or input at all would've been nice. Then again I shouldn't expect discussion to happen on the Boards I guess.
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Bouncemaster Zac

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