: I miss the days where cooldowns actually existed...
This is another form of power creep that has been plaguing this game since Season 5. Riot has made CDR on nearly every single item, which took away unique build paths for the sake of CDR. It was a lot cooler when you had to finish an Item to hit 20% CDR value rather than the two components just giving 20% CDR. Look at Iceborn Gauntlet, it used to be Sheen gave AP, mana, and the armor item gave 10%, and finishing it granted you 20%. That is not the case anymore, you just hit 20 with the components which is pretty dumb. This is present in every class, except ADC, unless you are going lethality.
: Previous season MMR should only carry on during placements
Game should go back to original Elo system so we can see how Riot has fucked the matchmaking. It would get rid of the d4 never gonna demote unless p4 mmr mentality. When you hit mid-high plat there is a large amount of d4 players with awful game mentality that feel like they can make their own team lose for fun and they will not get demoted till their MMR falls to a ridiculous low amount, kinda problematic. You should be able to demote tiers as easily as divisions.
NaoWhut (NA)
: So i changed my mind, Nidalee top is fine. If anything it's a strong and versatile top lane. I just played 2 games of nidalee top and i'd say she's pretty solid. If you like i could get clips of early game fights vs the trundle / akali. I was beating the akali pretty hard before i ended up hitting teleport to a minion... (I use d for flash in lane, F for flash in jungle) here is [game 1](https://i.imgur.com/2bhRHi5.png?1) and [game 2](https://i.imgur.com/usvJi6t.png?1) The AP build is definitely way better, but it's possible to go the AD build. It would just depend on your match up (though the assassin AP build is better in most every way). I could probably do the AD build better, but i've never done one of those before. Would need work Cheers, and thanks for the reply as always! {{champion:76}}
> [{quoted}](name=NaoWhut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=00270000000000010001,timestamp=2019-05-14T02:57:55.605+0000) > > So i changed my mind, Nidalee top is fine. If anything it's a strong and versatile top lane. I just played 2 games of nidalee top and i'd say she's pretty solid. If you like i could get clips of early game fights vs the trundle / akali. I was beating the akali pretty hard before i ended up hitting teleport to a minion... (I use d for flash in lane, F for flash in jungle) > > here is [game 1](https://i.imgur.com/2bhRHi5.png?1) and [game 2](https://i.imgur.com/usvJi6t.png?1) > > The AP build is definitely way better, but it's possible to go the AD build. It would just depend on your match up (though the assassin AP build is better in most every way). I could probably do the AD build better, but i've never done one of those before. Would need work > > Cheers, and thanks for the reply as always! > > {{champion:76}} It's fine in the first few moments of the game. I would like to add that you are playing against Akali who inherently loses the matchup to Nidalee, and Trundle who cannot close the gap. You also are playing against players of much lower skill than yourself. I do appreciate your effort into looking into it, but you are gonna have to lose some ranked games to get a real perspective of Bruiser Nidalee. I find it hard to believe a silver player would play the ranged vs melee matchup properly.
NaoWhut (NA)
: I disagree. Some of you may stop reading there, down vote, and move on... But I will continue because I love nidalee, I have loved every form of nidalee since the beginning. You want to land multiple spears? They are extremely slow moving, and the best way to land them is to throw them at an enemy that isn't looking for a spear. Throw them from weird angles in fog of war. But once one lands you will not likely land another before they can get away. Unless of course you're playing against players that are substantially below your skill level, then it doesn't matter. If you want to have to land multiple spears, then just play Jayce, ezreal, xerath etc. Nidalee does not have the wave clear for mid, nor the base damage, inherent tankiness, Mana costs, short range dueling power, or anti tank power for top lane. Some players are good enough to make it work on nidalee, but it is not by any means a good choice. No minor tweaks to her kit would allow this either. You want someone similar to nidalee top? Play Quinn, Vayne, Elise, Jayce, etc. What you are recommending are nerfs to nidalee. It makes no sense. Unless what you are recommending is to give nidalee back her tank stats in cougar form at the cost of her damage and mobility. Then it is just the desire to change a champion to do what you want them to do. There are already champions out there that fit that role. I advise you try them and open your mind. A top lane nidalee that goes ad and maxes heal first is like a Jayce that maxes W first. The Jayce would likely be stronger, too. Nidalee has very low base damage, and if you are building her for lane you are likely not looking to win the game (even if you think you are). You are likely just looking to play nidalee in lane with no plan to end the game. You just enjoy the champion, but also enjoy lane, and that's fine. If you want to play for fun, then that's fine. But please do not try to cripple such a wonderful champion. She is an excellent jungler, and is capable of wonderful things. Use traps for vision, heal your teamtes, build weird, build fun. Rush liandrys and max W so that your traps hurt like hell. Build lich bane, hextech revolver, and duskblade so you can surprise someone with a cougar q that one shots them. Rush deathcap and mejais with dark harvest so your auto attacks do ridiculous damage to towers, your spears put enemies at 20% hp, and you heal for 700. Rush frozen gauntlet with spirit visage and a gun blade/zhonyas to duel like crazy. Go attack speed nidalee, go support nidalee, go anywhere with nidalee. Just please don't butcher the champion I have loved for thousands of games on multiple accounts since the very start. She's a sweet little kitty. Sorry if I've bothered any of you at all by disagreeing, and I'm sorry if I seemed rude at any point in my reply. Thanks for reading and have a lovely day. {{champion:76}}
> [{quoted}](name=NaoWhut,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=0027,timestamp=2019-05-13T15:25:26.977+0000) > > I disagree. Some of you may stop reading there, down vote, and move on... But I will continue because I love nidalee, I have loved every form of nidalee since the beginning. > I won't down vote a constructive reply. Thank you! > You want to land multiple spears? They are extremely slow moving, and the best way to land them is to throw them at an enemy that isn't looking for a spear. Throw them from weird angles in fog of war. But once one lands you will not likely land another before they can get away. Unless of course you're playing against players that are substantially below your skill level, then it doesn't matter. If you want to have to land multiple spears, then just play Jayce, ezreal, xerath etc. > I believe the spear throwing playstyle is loved by quite a few, and it being as hard as it is delivers part of the reward to the player. You feel awesome when you land an incredibly hard skillshot. I'm not going to argue that Nidalee is not rewarded for landing it, but it does feel a bit cheap being able to follow up so far upon landing it. In top lane, Nidalee can jump the distance of half the lane. If I am harassing a target, and get the hunt, they basically have to hide behind tower early. I believe there is not the same satisfaction by landing Xerath Q in comparison to Nidalee Q. > Nidalee does not have the wave clear for mid, nor the base damage, inherent tankiness, Mana costs, short range dueling power, or anti tank power for top lane. Some players are good enough to make it work on nidalee, but it is not by any means a good choice. No minor tweaks to her kit would allow this either. You want someone similar to nidalee top? Play Quinn, Vayne, Elise, Jayce, etc. > Not having the waveclear in Mid lane is part of her weakness, if you are constantly shoving Nidalee in, there is a lot less room for Nidalee to land a spear on you because the minion wave piles up and spreads out. If Nidalee is pushing, it becomes much easier for Nidalee to land spears. > What you are recommending are nerfs to nidalee. It makes no sense. Unless what you are recommending is to give nidalee back her tank stats in cougar form at the cost of her damage and mobility. Then it is just the desire to change a champion to do what you want them to do. There are already champions out there that fit that role. I advise you try them and open your mind. A top lane nidalee that goes ad and maxes heal first is like a Jayce that maxes W first. The Jayce would likely be stronger, too. > I don't think everyone is asking for Nidalee nerfs, but a power shift instead. The Hunt has too much power, maybe they could remove the damage amplification to afford to buff Nidalee in other areas to level out laning/jungling. > Nidalee has very low base damage, and if you are building her for lane you are likely not looking to win the game (even if you think you are). You are likely just looking to play nidalee in lane with no plan to end the game. You just enjoy the champion, but also enjoy lane, and that's fine. If you want to play for fun, then that's fine. But please do not try to cripple such a wonderful champion. She is an excellent jungler, and is capable of wonderful things. > Nidalee has very high base damage, that is why Nidalee's strongest point in the game is about 1-2 items and does not even 500 Damage to a 3.5k HP tank with a max range spear late game. > Use traps for vision, heal your teamtes, build weird, build fun. Rush liandrys and max W so that your traps hurt like hell. Build lich bane, hextech revolver, and duskblade so you can surprise someone with a cougar q that one shots them. Rush deathcap and mejais with dark harvest so your auto attacks do ridiculous damage to towers, your spears put enemies at 20% hp, and you heal for 700. Rush frozen gauntlet with spirit visage and a gun blade/zhonyas to duel like crazy. Go attack speed nidalee, go support nidalee, go anywhere with nidalee. Just please don't butcher the champion I have loved for thousands of games on multiple accounts since the very start. > I don't think anyone wants to butcher Nidalee, except those who never play Nidalee and hate her. The people who want change to Nidalee want suggestions to how Nidalee could be viable in the lane as well as jungle. > She's a sweet little kitty. > > Sorry if I've bothered any of you at all by disagreeing, and I'm sorry if I seemed rude at any point in my reply. Thanks for reading and have a lovely day. > > {{champion:76}} I appreciate your reply! I think maybe we could trim down the lock on pounce, remove the attack speed buff on E and replace it with something similar to Jayce W, change heal back to flat amount, remove the hunt damage amplification, add spear scaling, and then adjust numbers till her clear is healthy. I believe Nidalee's gankability would be fine as Nidalee a lot of the time when snowballing, Nialee can do all of the legwork without laner reaction as long as a long range spear was landed. Regards, Bruiser Nid, Nidalee main since Season 2.
: This isn't true at all. Bruiser nid is not a threat to almost every top laner her marking a champ is irrelevant unless they are already extremely low. Also if they reduce the range of pounce its going to needs its cd lowered back down as well.
> [{quoted}](name=WindLord7070,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=0019000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-13T05:28:40.726+0000) > > This isn't true at all. Bruiser nid is not a threat to almost every top laner her marking a champ is irrelevant unless they are already extremely low. Also if they reduce the range of pounce its going to needs its cd lowered back down as well. I didn't say she was a threat to every top laner. I said Bruiser Nid after harrassing them a couple times and getting a mark is very oppressive because you can jump across half of the lane after them. I have played a lot of Bruiser Nid. Nidalee is going to have to lose some of the pre 5.2 to really be fixed. She won't be just fine at 5.1 but she will be a lot better than now. She was too strong then, and Riot still made the jungle change. It isn't irrelevant because the mark amplifies the damage of cougar.
: > [{quoted}](name=Gàylörd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-05-13T03:12:52.674+0000) > > The main problem with current Nidalee is a 700 range pounce that locks you onto the hunted target, and Nidalee has too much damage loaded into executing targets. > > This means when Nidalee gets ahead, she can't be stopped. She jumps across and 1 shots anybody who gets the hunt on them which isn't fair to the enemy nor fun for the Nidalee player. > > Nidalee would be more fun to play against and to play if you had to land multiple spears instead of 1 spear/trap and then flying into them. This. Nidalee needs less guaranteed burst because once you have the hunt mark everything is a go! You fly to them with no effort and they die lol. Maybe we could keep it but trim the range so Nidalee can get something added elsewhere.
> [{quoted}](name=Mid Nidalee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2019-05-13T05:15:27.730+0000) > > This. Nidalee needs less guaranteed burst because once you have the hunt mark everything is a go! You fly to them with no effort and they die lol. > > Maybe we could keep it but trim the range so Nidalee can get something added elsewhere. The problem with the leap being so long is it is overly punishing for a player who gets the mark on them and it is even worse when you are Bruiser Nid because the enemy top laner basically has no choice but to go behind turret if they get a mark early game and have been autoed a couple of times. Nidalee could still gank lanes without it, but we could trim it and see what happens :). Importantly though, the mark damage should be removed to compensate other parts of Nidalee's kit so she can lane more effectively.
KazKaz (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bruiser Nid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-13T00:03:38.968+0000) > >Nidalee going back to relying on Q a lot more would not be as bad in today's game. There is more Movement speed readily available, the spear cast time has been doubled, and the spear is more narrow. Plus Zoe exists in the game now. I disagree with all of this. You cannot justify an extremely unhealthy concept such as old Nid's spear just because there are more movement options, that's called powercreep. As for Zoe existing, I don't think anyone wants her to have that insane long range burst (besides Riot themselves). >You can revert the long range pounce and Nidalee Jungle would survive, ganking would be harder but currently Nidalee can pull off full ganks herself without laner reaction. You would compensate with Cougar MS and move some Cougar Q power to the rest of her damage abilities. Fair play, I can see these changes being alright. That said, Cougar Q is actually not _that_ strong, and I also do not think that Nidalee is lacking damage in any way shape or form. >They could nerf Pounce damage on camps and give us back the pounce reset on kill to greatly help lane Nidalee without sending Jungle Nidalee more forward. She already has 1 second of her pounce refunded on ANY kill, that's good enough, and it rewards Nids that can prep minions (in a more advanced way than Irelia). Although, I agree with nerfing Pounce's damage against jungle monsters (I'm guessing you'd want like 50% reduced damage vs jungle camps?). >They could also change the heal back to a flat amount.. if you look at current builds on top laners, deaths dance, gunblade, ravenous hunter, triumph... it goes on.. there is so much healing that it would not be that crazy to have Nidalee be able to heal herself again. Only if they never tweak the mana cost, ever. Healing for a flat amount made Nid oppressively strong in the top lane during seasons 1-5. How about, Nid heals for a flat amount, loses the persistent attack speed buff, however, for the next 3 auto attacks the target healed has 40%-110% bonus attack speed. That way it won't allow Nid to run someone down with her heal buff on in the top lane, and it will take away that extended power her heal has when used on priority targets (although it will still be effective). >I think the favored idea would be losing the 700 range pounce and compensating with movement speed to allow Nidalee to think more about pathing than just going for the mark and diving in, then we could afford to give her Q damage. Nid doesn't need any more damage, that's the thing. She deals a lot already, and she deals a metric truckload after even one item purchase. Top that off with the fact that this game needs **LESS** damage and you start to realise that adding more damage to champions is counter-intuitive. Mess with her mobility all you want, just avoid buffing her damage, or any champ's damage for that matter.
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-13T01:39:27.589+0000) > > I disagree with all of this. You cannot justify an extremely unhealthy concept such as old Nid's spear just because there are more movement options, that's called powercreep. As for Zoe existing, I don't think anyone wants her to have that insane long range burst (besides Riot themselves). The spear is more easily dodgeable than before, so it wouldn't be as bad to have more damage on it, not even more early game damage but some scaling. > > Fair play, I can see these changes being alright. That said, Cougar Q is actually not _that_ strong, and I also do not think that Nidalee is lacking damage in any way shape or form. > I do not think she is lacking damage but I feel as if Cougar Q (with hunt) needs damage moved to other abilities (swipe, spear) > She already has 1 second of her pounce refunded on ANY kill, that's good enough, and it rewards Nids that can prep minions (in a more advanced way than Irelia). Although, I agree with nerfing Pounce's damage against jungle monsters (I'm guessing you'd want like 50% reduced damage vs jungle camps?). The idea behind the cooldown change would be giving lane Nidalee some waveclear, and it would buff Jungle Nidalee so we would reduce the damage on the pounce vs monsters. > > Only if they never tweak the mana cost, ever. Healing for a flat amount made Nid oppressively strong in the top lane during seasons 1-5. How about, Nid heals for a flat amount, loses the persistent attack speed buff, however, for the next 3 auto attacks the target healed has 40%-110% bonus attack speed. That way it won't allow Nid to run someone down with her heal buff on in the top lane, and it will take away that extended power her heal has when used on priority targets (although it will still be effective). > I like the temporary attack speed for a number of attacks idea, thanks dude! I feel like her MP5 needs buffs for mid lane, but I could see problems brewing top lane. I am pretty stuck on the idea of the current Hunt Pounce being too busted. It would be one thing if Nidalee spear did very little damage, like Kaisa W, then Nidalee closes the gap. But we have a Nidalee who currently deals 400-800 damage with a spear THEN closes the gap instantly to burst you. > Nid doesn't need any more damage, that's the thing. She deals a lot already, and she deals a metric truckload after even one item purchase. Top that off with the fact that this game needs **LESS** damage and you start to realise that adding more damage to champions is counter-intuitive. > Mess with her mobility all you want, just avoid buffing her damage, or any champ's damage for that matter. League of Legends does need less damage, I would like to stress that Nidalee needs power moved, not necessarily added. The hunt is a broken mechanic as long as the long pounce exists. Edit: I'm not sure why you are getting so many downvotes because you are being constructive and I appreciate the conversation! Upvoted.
KazKaz (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Bruiser Nid,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-12T23:15:09.709+0000) > > Actually no, she isn't tier 2. She is not viable after 20 minutes into game, no matter how hard you snowballed. Riot should remove the really long pounce so they can afford to give Nidalee power back. Give her some power back? Like what? They can't give her any more spear damage or she goes back to being a Q bot, they can't buff her heal otherwise she gets better in the jungle and becomes incredibly oppressive in lane (remember seasons 1-5 top lane Nid, I sure do), they can't buff Cougar form because she'll just get better as a jungler.... Like, what do you want reverted? The only thing I can see working out is bringing back the MR debuff on her trap activation, and that's really it. Oh, and remove the trap limit. So really all I can see is her trap being the only ability that can be partially reverted. Furthermore, Nid seems to be quite fun overall. I definitely understand your pain, I used to play Lee top for fun and then they completely neutered that. Out of curiosity, what changes are you personally thinking of that could help lane Nid, while not overly impacting jungle Nid (who is presently still a tier 1 jungle pick)?
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-12T23:52:36.164+0000) > > Give her some power back? Like what? > > They can't give her any more spear damage or she goes back to being a Q bot, they can't buff her heal otherwise she gets better in the jungle and becomes incredibly oppressive in lane (remember seasons 1-5 top lane Nid, I sure do), they can't buff Cougar form because she'll just get better as a jungler.... > Nidalee going back to relying on Q a lot more would not be as bad in today's game. There is more Movement speed readily available, the spear cast time has been doubled, and the spear is more narrow. Plus Zoe exists in the game now. > Like, what do you want reverted? The only thing I can see working out is bringing back the MR debuff on her trap activation, and that's really it. Oh, and remove the trap limit. So really all I can see is her trap being the only ability that can be partially reverted. > You can revert the long range pounce and Nidalee Jungle would survive, ganking would be harder but currently Nidalee can pull off full ganks herself without laner reaction. You would compensate with Cougar MS and move some Cougar Q power to the rest of her damage abilities. > Furthermore, Nid seems to be quite fun overall. I definitely understand your pain, I used to play Lee top for fun and then they completely neutered that. > Out of curiosity, what changes are you personally thinking of that could help lane Nid, while not overly impacting jungle Nid (who is presently still a tier 1 jungle pick)? They could nerf Pounce damage on camps and give us back the pounce reset on kill to greatly help lane Nidalee without sending Jungle Nidalee more forward. They could also change the heal back to a flat amount.. if you look at current builds on top laners, deaths dance, gunblade, ravenous hunter, triumph... it goes on.. there is so much healing that it would not be that crazy to have Nidalee be able to heal herself again. I think the favored idea would be losing the 700 range pounce and compensating with movement speed to allow Nidalee to think more about pathing than just going for the mark and diving in, then we could afford to give her Q damage.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Uhhhhh, she's still fine top lane. Definitely not a tier 0 or tier 1 pick, but definitely a balanced tier 2 pick. Champ's nutty when you master her cougar form reset(s).
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EXvLPOEc,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-12T22:56:19.388+0000) > > Uhhhhh, she's still fine top lane. Definitely not a tier 0 or tier 1 pick, but definitely a balanced tier 2 pick. Champ's nutty when you master her cougar form reset(s). Actually no, she isn't tier 2. She is not viable after 20 minutes into game, no matter how hard you snowballed. Riot should remove the really long pounce so they can afford to give Nidalee power back.
: Still looking for Red response
> [{quoted}](name=Mordekaiser69,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-05-12T19:27:01.568+0000) > > Still looking for Red response Yep, another boards post to be made soon I suppose.
: Lane Nidalee Is Not Forgotten, Riot Needs To Do Something
Another thread was made by a Nidalee player on Reddit: [](https://www.reddit.com/r/NidaleeMains/comments/bngzon/how_would_nidalee_from_patch_52_perform_in_todays/) https://www.reddit.com/r/NidaleeMains/comments/bngzon/how_would_nidalee_from_patch_52_perform_in_todays/ I don't see this slowing down.
: Lane Nidalee Is Not Forgotten, Riot Needs To Do Something
Riot, us Nidalee players are awaiting responses. We have given many ways to fix Nidalee on the last 3+ boards posts and reddit posts.
: Can we stop ignoring Warwick?
I hope Riot fixes the bugs in Warwick's kit. I hope Riot realizes that these little balance/nerf/buff updates they waste time with every 2 weeks are not nearly as important as making a champion playable, with little to no bugs.
Bârd (NA)
: I'd be fine with it if they had the balls to say that they were changing the item. What irks me is that they didn't want to call it a balance change. They called it a bugfix and hid it in the bottom of the patch notes like they didn't want anybody to realize they'd changed it.
> [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=00070001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T20:18:06.770+0000) > > I'd be fine with it if they had the balls to say that they were changing the item. > > What irks me is that they didn't want to call it a balance change. They called it a bugfix and hid it in the bottom of the patch notes like they didn't want anybody to realize they'd changed it. Riot needs to be more transparent. A lot of players have quit the game due to transparency from Riot. They say they hold a certain standards to champions/items/runes and balancing but go and contradict themselves the next Season after Season after Season. Sort of unrelated but; The patch they reworked Nidalee, there was tons of outrage and Nidalee players quitting the game but most of it was unheard because it was overshadowed by the removal of DFG on the same patch. If Tencent isn't earning enough money through Riot to where they feel they need to push prestige skins and passes all of the time, maybe they should look at getting some old players back by going back on changes that players left because of.
Bârd (NA)
: Don't forget the "bugfix" that changed tear to not give stacks when you cast a 0 mana cost spell. It already wasn't the best item for Nid, but now it's just 100% dead on her. I miss that shit.
> [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=000700010000,timestamp=2019-05-10T20:10:28.666+0000) > > Don't forget the "bugfix" that changed tear to not give stacks when you cast a 0 mana cost spell. > > It already wasn't the best item for Nid, but now it's just 100% dead on her. I miss that shit. It is kind of fair though to not earn tear stacks unless expending into mana pool. I can live and agree with that change. We need an Athenes/Ludens Rework. Ludens echo is an assassin item that gives assassins waveclear, and damage. It should not be the main Mage mana item for mages that already have waveclear and burst.
: I wouldn't mind her getting a few changes as I rarely see her anymore, but I do remember the absolute terror she used to be and I would never want that to return.
> [{quoted}](name=Unlawful Salmon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-05-10T18:12:27.949+0000) > > I wouldn't mind her getting a few changes as I rarely see her anymore, but I do remember the absolute terror she used to be and I would never want that to return. The spear is more narrow, cast time is doubled, and it does no damage to anybody after 25 minutes currently. Nidalee should be rewarded for landing a spear in a way that doesn't give her a free 700 range to pounce and kill with too much damage being loaded into the execute. I'm not advocating for AD Carries and squishies of the like to be 1 shot by a spear. But they should die if they get hit by 2 and Nidalee is full AP and they bought no MR. The spear is very dodge-able, but the 700 range pounce/insane MS buff when you have the hunt on you with incoming 1.5k cougar damage is not dodge-able.
: Is Nidalee a viable jungle pick?
Jungle Nidalee has been hit with many nerfs over the last few years, I believe the 700 range pounce into execute playstyle to be the problem. If Nidalee had to rely on another champion to be successful in a gank (such as the laner Nidalee is ganking for), Nidalee would be in a healthier state of balance. Currently in most ganks where Nidalee succeeds, she could have done all the work herself without laner response.
Neamean (NA)
: Which lane nidalee are we talking about. Top btrk/tri, mid ap snipe nuke, supp healbot/poke.
> [{quoted}](name=Neamean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f7dVLNBr,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-10T07:57:22.010+0000) > > Which lane nidalee are we talking about. Top btrk/tri, mid ap snipe nuke, supp healbot/poke. Both Top/Mid Nidalee need some attention. Nidalee in general has been in an unhealthy state post 5.2 and Riot has only nerfed her instead of addressing the real problem with her kit. The Hunt is busted! That being said, we can make the hunt work but Nidalee potentially needs to have power moved from it to her abilities. You should check out the reddit discussion or the other posts in the last few days on boards.
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Bruiser Nid

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