: Tell me about it. I love it when they get stomped and lose the match. Play a real champ and actually learn how to play the game and stop looking for no effort wins.
> [{quoted}](name=FioraWillCarry,realm=NA,application-id=GgNYATV4,discussion-id=2NMfPXx7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T22:22:23.171+0000) > > Tell me about it. I love it when they get stomped and lose the match. Play a real champ and actually learn how to play the game and stop looking for no effort wins. If they get stomped... then I guess it can't be a brainless champ, or else they wouldn't get stomped.
: Oh no a bug was there for a couple months what will you ever do? Try [two entire years](https://www.reddit.com/r/DirtySionMains/comments/5b6nwq/basic_attack_glitch_on_sion/) and [still not fixed](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/bug-report/rmVX7nU2-up-to-date-partial-sion-buglist-sions-14-most-problematic-unintended-features).
lol I was thinking the same thing, I didn't even think they looked at the glitch reports since all the glitches I've ever reported were never fixed, ever. Each patch I scroll to bug fixed section and think maybe this time, only to see "fixed blah blah skin's dance."
: Did you fix the heimerdinger huge bugs or are you guys on vacation? #BalanceTeam
it's the weekend, does Riot work on the weekends? It should be fixed some point this month I hope.
Meddler (NA)
: Yeah, that's unintentional, looks like how that damage is categorized got changed. We'll get that fixed.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EmjGouud,comment-id=001900000000,timestamp=2018-12-07T18:52:44.247+0000) > > Yeah, that's unintentional, looks like how that damage is categorized got changed. We'll get that fixed. @ Meddler please let the same person know that his Ult Q also is not getting the AP ratio aplied, appreciate your time thanks!
: Even after fix, Donger does not work properly and no announcement has been made in the patch notes.
Meddler (NA)
: A bunch of Heimerdinger bugs got introduced this patch. We're working on a hotfix for those at the moment, hoping to have it out today or tomorrow. If something meaningful (e.g. stun duration) has changed and it's not listed in the patch notes it's unintentional.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wg74Zhcs,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-12-05T22:31:48.834+0000) > > A bunch of Heimerdinger bugs got introduced this patch. We're working on a hotfix for those at the moment, hoping to have it out today or tomorrow. If something meaningful (e.g. stun duration) has changed and it's not listed in the patch notes it's unintentional. His Ult turret normal attacks no longer scale with AP, his turrets normal attack also no longer proc Rylai's, aery, or Dark Harvest. These are also considered meaningful and will receive a fix, correct? Also this might be a good time to look at the bug when he throws a grenade into brush and it doesn't reveal enemies: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeimerdingerMains/comments/9lwnpz/heimer_bugs/ Has something to do with the hitbox of his grenade and the top edge of the grass.
: Hiemerdinger's Turrets Won't Attack Inhibitors Sometimes
Yes, they sometimes just sit and fail to switch targets I do not know why. Also his grenade vision is bugged: https://www.reddit.com/r/HeimerdingerMains/comments/9lwnpz/heimer_bugs/
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Champion info at select
Does no one else want this feature back? I thought it was great especially after reworks and not playing for a while.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Learn more: April Foods Event
"Chef's Favorite Emotes **March 30, 2018 at 8:00 AM PT – April 9**, 2018 at 11:59 PM PT 450 RP each or in Meme-motes Combo Set" Are all 4 emotes disappearing from the store on April 9th, or just the set combo?
Zagzy (EUW)
: Heimer bug
Such an old bug, why don’t they bother fixing it, sigh...
IAmWoralo (EUW)
: Oh no Heimerdonger finally became a reasonable champion
One of the problems heimer faces is that when someone knows how to play him he appears to be a no skill champion since his turrets do all the work. People who don’t understand how good positioning works and are soley trying to land their oh so intensive “skilled” combos lose hard against him if they can’t poke down his turrets first. Learn how to play him and you’ll know how to beat him. Even if he outfarms you his lategame is still really bad.
: Heimerdinger's Turrets: are they working as planned?
noticed this too, wasn't sure if I just remembered it wrong or what was going on.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Heimerdinger Changes for 7.10 (Request for Comment)
Yeah, I definitely liked the old playstyle more than the new playstyle. Now you have to build max cdr and I really miss the life regen. I think the old heimer just needed his cooldowns adjusted, it was even mentioned when the 3rd season rework was made that his cooldowns felt too high.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Heimerdinger Changes for 7.10 (Request for Comment)
"removed LOW-EFFORT CONTENT Turrets no longer prioritize nearby enemy champions or champions that attack them removed FAREWELL Turrets no longer briefly remain active after Heimerdinger leaves the area " I don't get these nerfs one bit, accidentally leaving range for just a moment to place a ward or whatever just shuts them down and how am I going to dissuade junglers from walking through my zone if the turrets don't actually fire at them? A little concerned since his Turret AI could use some buffs rather than nerfs.
: From reading all of these changes, I'm okay with most of it except his new passive. For one it is very small, it's saying something that it's only just barely larger then the grenade he throws, it should be at least as wide as the mid lane, as long as heimer stands in the center of the lane that is. Second all of the other changes make heimer seem like a better option for a support champion than he already was UNTIL you removed his best supporting feature, his healing factor for his carry. Third and most crucial of all, this go against the character of heimerdinger or at the very least who I feel like he was meant to be. The way his passive always worked made me think he was meant to be lost in a team fight, always contributing an invisible hand to the fight and sneaking in with turrets that went over looked, this coupled with the fact that he is under played meant that he was both figuratively and literally over looked most of the time. The players of heimer like myself probably found that aspect of him to be quite appealing, a dark horse champ who could surprise you if you don't pay attention to him. This change to Heimerdinger is clearly meant to put him out of top lane, where you want tank/bruisers to go and put him back where you would like to see mages like himself go, mid lane. However this change is going against the other place mages often go (Anni, Viegar, Zyra, ect.) Bottom Support. Heimerdinger made such a fun support champ and these changes where fantastic for that, and a "Professor" I love the image of him standing there lecturing to his carry as the game goes on. I personally would have love to seen you more anchor him as a support champion like I felt he was always meant to be. Long story short, His passive sucks and I don't like it.{{champion:74}}
I wasn't a fan of the new passive at first either, but if you place your turrets 300 units away from eachother, thats 1,200 figure 8 wide area. Giving him over 400 speed at lvl 1 seems decent. I want to see how the new passive plays, but I will miss the mini game of defending a turret to allow it to regen its health.
: What don't you like about static instability? Is it too powerful?
That and Thaumaturgical Flux are too mechanically complicated. People already have a hard time understanding his kit and i think those abilities needlessly complicate the move. Just keep it simple with the flat stun and slow.
: Same here, I felt heimer was a bit of a forgotten/ignored champ. I much appreciate he's being worked at again. One thing i'd like to say; I find that heimer lanes are currently rarely even. Most matches heimer is either completly dominating the lane (vs many melee fighters), or he is being countered hard (vs most aoe mages) . The key to this difference, is the ability of the opponent to either easily destroy heimer's turrets, or not being able to touch them at-all. This is because, the turrets are heimer's main power. To even this out, an idea i had was firstly, decrease the base power of heimer turrets significantly. This would make it less punishing for melees to be in his field of turrets for a while, and destroy a few of them. To let heimer keep a powerbase, I suggest to increase the power of his turrets, depending on the amount of active turrets he has. If he has only 1 turret standing, that turret would have more firepower. If he deploys a second, decrease the power of both turrets. This allows heimer to always have some of his main power remaining, even though his turrets are quickly destroyed. Other things i was thinking of was perhaps letting heimer's turrets HP scale with heimer HP, turret mgc res with heimer mgc res, turret armor with heimer armor. This would also allow him to deal with e.g. hard matchups who destroy its turrets easily, even though it goes at the cost of turret firepower. On a sidenote: I like your idea for the passive. certainly allows heimer to dodge spells and escape more easily. Again; Thanks for working on heimer:) Hope you can make him more viable, without making him too oppressive in certain matchups:)
I like the idea that the number of turrets changes their strength. So one turret up is equal to the power of his current 3 turrets combined, but you can dilute that power to go a more zone control route. Makes it so heimer isn't completely useless even if he can only deploy one turret since that is where much of his damage comes from. However, i do not like linking turret hp/resistance to heimer's, i would rather tie that into the turret ability itself. Because "tankdinger" just doesn't do enough damage to contribute to the team, and is still too squishy to be a "tank."
: Although I find it hard to see my own comments I hope this gets read :D. I preface this with the fact that I am not a heimer main or much of a heimer player really. I just read the comments and would like to offer several changes to your proposed changeset. This is based off of the comments and the fact that heimer has a below average win rate and pick/ban rate Stats: * HP Regen: 2.2 (+0.35) >>> 1.4 (+0.11) * I decided to keep the stats low because it will make heimer actually have to choose about engaging. I buffed his spells to make up for it. Passive: Hextech Affinity (P) * Moves 20% faster around turrets (SR turrets and his own turrets) - 300 range. * This buff lasts for 3 seconds after leaving the turret's range (or the turret dies). Stacks with point runner. * To be fair passive HP regen seems like a boring mechanic, MS is much more interesting. Turrets (Q) * Base Damage: 12 / 18 / 24 / 30 / 36 (+0.15) >>> 6 / 9 / 12 / 15 / 18 (+0.3) * Deals double damage to minions and epic monsters. * _Rather than just nerfing his early, let's make it focus on farming and pushing_ * Recharge Time: 24 - 20 >>> Keep * Turrets can hold: 1 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 3 >>> 2 / 2 / 2 / 3 / 3 (+1 per 200 AP) * Maybe cap it? Like 5/6 turrets max. * _I don't like adding pure stats to the turrets because it seems a bit boring. plus it gives straight up milestones to build towards rather than the "lets just build as much AP as possible" mentality_ * Beam attack time to charge: 16 >>> 50 * New Passive: Recycle - Upon death, turrets drop a Scrap that lasts for 5 seconds. Heimer can pick up the Scrap for a spare part and 10 mana. * Scrap Pickup Range: 150 * _I decided to keep your reduced HP regen and bonus MS around turrets but I added a linger effect on the passive to make getting the recycle easier. This won't help as much on AA reliant champions but will help a little on mages with CD._ Rocket (W) * Mana Cost: 70 - 110 >>> 100 at all levels * _I'm not sure if this would help vs melee champions specifically, but it means he can't fire off as many rockets. Does that seem fair?_ * Cooldown: 11 >>> 10 * _Not balance, but quality of life, Rockets come off of CD twice as fast as Grenade for easier timings._ * Initial Rocket Damage: 60 / 90 / 120 / 150 / 180 (+ 45% AP) > 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 / 120 (+ 45% AP) * 20 % of the initial rockets base damage (+ 26.66‾ % of its ability power scaling) against champions. * 60 % of the initial rockets base damage (+ 79.44‾ % of its ability power scaling) against minions and monsters. * 20 % of the rockets base damage (+ 26.66‾ % of its ability power scaling) in a 150 area. * New Passive: Tracer Shot - Enemy Champions hit with a rocket gets marked with Painted for 1 / 1.5 / 2 / 2.5 / 3 seconds. * Painted - Heimerdinger's grenade's missle speed gets +100% missile speed when fired towards (90 degree cone) the target. In addition, while a target is painted, Heimerdinger gets +30% range on his Grenade. Heimer's turrets will gain 100% increased range against this target (1050 range). This is calculated on time of cast. Grenade (E) * Grenade hitbox: 210 >>> 250 (stun hitbox stays the same) * Cooldown: 18 / 16 / 14 / 12 / 10 >>> 20 at all levels. * _Gives other people breathing room between his stuns --> Lowered to 11 sec with a 45% CDR_ * Cost: 85 >>> 50 / 65 / 80 / 95 / 110 * MAGIC DAMAGE: 60 / 100 / 140 / 180 / 220 (+ 60% AP) > 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100 (+ 30%AP) * **Added: The Target loses mana equal to the amount of HP lost.** * Stun: 1.25 seconds > 0.5 seconds * New Passive: Static Instability - Enemy Champions and epic monsters hit with the grenade get marked with Static Instability for 3 seconds. * Static Instability - This target takes 20 / 40 / 60 / 80 / 100% increased non champion damage. **Removed: ~~Any incoming damage will stun this target for 0.3 seconds. This stun cannot trigger more than once per second. The stun does not affect epic monsters.~~** * New Passive: Overload - Hitting a turret with a Grenade gives the turret Thaumaturgical Flux for 5 seconds. * Thaumaturgical Flux - This target takes 15 / 30 / 45 / 60 / 75% reduced damage. **Removed: ~~Incoming autoattacks stun the attacker for 0.1 seconds. Spells that hit this target zap the caster for 10 / 20 / 30 / 40 / 50 mana. This effect can only trigger once per autoattack/spell.~~** * _Here is where my lack of heimer knowledge comes in. I have no idea what the numbers are, but I know I want turrets to have some sort defensive buff if heimer sacrifices his stun to power them up instead. The enemies can always leave the fight, but I wanted this to be objective oriented rather than purely teamfight oriented. Also tells people to stay AWAY from his turrets_ General thoughts on R Spells - Keep. * I'm not claiming that this is good balance, I just thought that since people want to play heimer for his turrets, It would make more sense that his playstyle should be around THEM. I added more mana costs to his spells so it simulates more risk/reward early. I added extra effects to his spells because it was fun to make them up and I didn't want it to be boring. In addition his early poke is amazing now if he lands his spells, but it doesn't seem overbearing. * I nerfed his AP ratio in favor of synergy between his spells and increased power towards turrets and objective taking. * Heimer can probably solo Rift Herald right now, but rather slowly with recycle which I want. I do want him to try for Rift Heralds pushing potential but I don't want free herald.
I like the thought you put into your post, and like several of your suggestions. In particular the 3 second movement speed buff linger, the paint marking rockers for faster grenade and increased turret range. Main thing i don't like is the static instability and high CD of the grenade.
: I don't understand one thing: will turrets get a bit of HP regen? I like this "rework" but I have 2 concerns: - 20% may be not enough, imho - Turrets are still too fragile and easy to kill, it would be cooler if when an enemy kills them they would drop some kind of mechanical part that refreshes a % of Q's cooldown if Heim collects them.
I am also worried about the loss of his turret hp regen/survivability, but 20% movement speed gives him 408 ms at lvl 1 with no boots. That's faster than Cassiopia at lvl 18 (400). Place the turrets in a triangle that's 1200 units you can traverse in 3 different directions. One concern though is that on live I never stand close to my turrets so that my opponent has to choose to attack me, the minions or the turrets while I also zone a larger area. This way one spell can't be used to destroy my turrets and also damage me at the same time. But, wont know until I give it a try and I guess I'll come up with new positioning schemes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Bruticus44,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jIEZxfck,comment-id=015f0001,timestamp=2017-05-06T13:17:04.599+0000) > > While I agree with you on the main point that strategic positioning is the reason Heimer is fun to play as, i don't know if tankdinger is a viable buildpath for this champion. Tankdinger just doesn't add much to the game. Not much cc, no damage, still relatively squishy. I like heisondongs idea better, linking the durability of his turrets to the skillpoints you put into your turrets, or (more extreme change) buffed up turrets the more scrap piles you collect. It adds enough with a Rylai, as long as you have enough CDR to keep the pace on dropping turrets. Problem is they get destroyed so fast on live that you can barely see them keeping the enemy team slowed down.
Right, which is the reason I think it is the wrong way to build the champ. If you go AP you get higher spell damage and your turrets gain more hp and can survive longer. At one point, I think around the end of season 5, you got AP from banner of command plus defense and ap from rylai's and then extra def. from the then overpowered item zz rot. It was a great build for heimer, but now not so much. I always cringe seeing the build because he just can't contribute enough to the team. Turrets that do no damage even if they somehow stick around aren't scary.
: I have more around 2000 games with Heimerdinger, I have been diamond with in the past seasons, I have been #1 Heimerdinger LAS and #13 world, and I have pretty much tried every build there is with him. That said, my suggestions are as follows: Problems: * His turrets need to scale with his defensive stats as well (armor, mr, health), and not just get health with level and ap. * His Apex Turret (R+Q) needs to be either tougher, immune to damage, or have a detonation for massive aoe when destroyed, because as it is right now it gets obliterated in no time by the enemy team. About upcoming changes: * I like the 3-kit start up, it is a lot more flexible. Having to get asap in lane just to lay down a turret field, and pray the enemy doesnt destroy them was obnoxious and needed some attention, i'm glad it finally got it. * The radius one the stun grenade was needed, i'm yet to test it to get the feeling of it. * The new passive seems solid, but i think it needs to affect allies for some percent of the buff (half maybe). What got me into playing Heimerdinger as my main was the tactical and positional aspectof turrets. The position game is what makes him fun to play imo and i would like it to stay like that. What's gonna happen with this changes is that people is just gonna play him as a poke / nuke mage levelling up W First. So, I'd think it would be interesting to have turrets' defense stats increase with Heimerdinger's own defense stats. That way you can either play an AP mage with weak but damaging turrets or a tanky mage with sturdy turrets. I think that, with Heimerdinger, it all comes down to his tactical concept of a positional mage, and that concept should be kept alive and empowered, as long as it fits Riot's meta design.
While I agree with you on the main point that strategic positioning is the reason Heimer is fun to play as, i don't know if tankdinger is a viable buildpath for this champion. Tankdinger just doesn't add much to the game. Not much cc, no damage, still relatively squishy. I like heisondongs idea better, linking the durability of his turrets to the skillpoints you put into your turrets, or (more extreme change) buffed up turrets the more scrap piles you collect.
Limit754 (NA)
: As a Heimer main thank you for giving the donger some love. Here are my comments: New Passive: One of his biggest drawbacks is how easy it is to gank him. This move speed (plus extra grenade size) should help him be able to get away when he sees someone coming. Turret Change: Love it in general but I want to make sure the ult can still laser twice before timing out. I would really like you to consider adding a little more range to the drop range to make it easier to put one over a wall. I think trinket ward range would really make the ability feel better. Coupled with the increased move speed having a little longer turret range would create some new interactions when chasing. Rockets: Could you consider changing the vectoring of the missiles so that targeting a space past the max range spreads them out quickly but caps at firing them in a straight line? Ideally I would like to see putting your cursor an inch past the max range would expand them into 5 straight lines. This way you can very easily send a wall of missiles forward when you want to spread out the dmg and wave clear. Essentially if you target past your opponent you would lose the ability for multiple missiles to hit but almost guarantee that at least one hits. Grenade: Very nice changes so far. The stun hit box could use a small boost allowing you to stun two targets that are close together. I am not asking for a stun box like Anivia but I think you could boost it a small amount without making it OP since it telegraphs where it will land more than Anivia. Big Turret: If you land no missiles or stuns I hope it still launches two lasers per spawn. Perhaps you could tweak the starting laser change to help retain this. Big Rockets: Same targeting request as above making it easier to spray an area when you just want to make sure something lands and don't care about deleting one target with all the missiles. Could the ult reduce the cooldown of the missiles and grenade? You mentioned the biggest problem with the ult that if you use the big turret you have 4 abilities if you use grenade or rockets you only have 3 abilities. That is a serious short fall for a champ with long cooldowns. Big Grenade: Larger stun box and a reduction of the cooldown of your grenades would be really nice. This ability is really fun to use but the fact that it shares a cooldown with your main grenade really makes it hard to use. Thanks again for looking at Heimerdinger.
Good points, I especailly agree with activating the ult to cut your other abilities cooldowns. This way you can actually use rockets or grenade ult a little after, but still not stack the stun.
SpicerXD (NA)
: A lot of passives have become more important to kits gameplay-wise in the recent work Riot has done. For one his passive is REALLY old (this was his original passive) and there's not a lot of design to it. Hell, they could just remove it and make it so his turrets just regen naturally if they wanted to they basically did with his regen already. But his new one can still definitely help him trade. Maneuverability is really powerful in laning, just look at Ahri's Q and how annoying it can be to hit her when it's out. Of course this power won't be free like his old one, we do actually have to dodge stuff even if it's at an increased movement speed. Additionally, this can help him escape ganks and have more options for turret placement as you now need to think of setting up "roads" of movement speed amplifiers.
We'll see how it feels in game, I didn't realize this would make him the fastest character in the game when he's close to a turret. It definitly changes his identity from the immobile champ he used to be. a constant point runner passive and more spread out turrets could be interesting gameplay. You have single handedly made me feel a little more positive about the changes. Still worried about turret survivability and heimer's sustain, but gotta wait and see.
: The thing is...how many melee matchups is he 'oppressive' against? Can you name 5 where, if the melee matchup is at all knowledgeable about how to play vs Heimer then he doesn't have a big problem in killing the turrets and outplaying/and or farming safely? Heimer doesn't have really any great matchups and MANY bad matchups, as 'oppressive' as he apparently is vs melee, then vs most ranged matchups he is ruined. The reason why he seems like he is oppressive is because people dont see him much, don't play vs him much and make huge mistakes vs him that they don't vs more common matchups that they are used to, not that it is specifically the way heimer's kit is designed. Anyway, in re: turrets taking a big nerf - they're not powerful lategame due to the tiny health and getting cleared instantly in team fights before they can do any damage, they're primarily DoT and the 'T' is just not there lategame. How about making some sort of fix around this, helping them keep alive longer, but not just a static buff. In line with his character, very smart, he should learn from his mistakes and have his turrets drop something every time they are destroyed which make the next one slightly stronger which would help lategame. Maybe make it drop health so Heimer has outplay potential when facing ganks...and also so he may play more riskily in lane allowing the opposition midlaner more chances to engage. Maybe the turrets can drop packs that increase their range if they are killed from X units away to stop him getting destroyed by long range. Maybe packs that increase turret health, or resistances so they are not so useless lategame and get instantly destroyed. It would fix the lategame problem of Q being vastly underpowered, it would help in the laning by making him more fun to play vs due to him needing to take more risks in order to collect packs.
I like the idea of dead turrets leaving a scrap pile which heimer picks up and gives a small defence/health bonus to his other turrets; maybe also healing heimer a little instantly. Kind of like thresh souls/meeps. But anything something that is done for his late game viability would be appreciated. maybe just a higher hp gain from ap% or each lvl of turrets adds a little more mr.
SpicerXD (NA)
: Powerwise, definitely. As it gave a lot with no interaction required. But I think with some tuning this new one can be pretty interesting and potent.
But aren't most passives non-interactive? The health regen is part of the way he can effectively trade, his total hp is so low he needed the regen to stay in lane without backing constantly. Plus there was added insentive to defend your weak turrets so they could heal back up.
SpicerXD (NA)
: Sorry, I should have put up the math: -Rank 1 with 40 AP: Live: 12 + (40 \* 0.15) = 18 New: 6 + (40 \* 0.3) = 18 -Rank 1 with 50 AP: Live: 12 + (50 \* 0.15) = 19.5 New: 6 + (50 \* 0.3) = 21 -Rank 5 with 130 AP: Live: 36 + (130 \* 0.15) = 55.5 New: 18 + (130 \* 0.30) = 57 It does more damage if you build AP. All that was really nerfed was non-AP builds. And you don't have enough AP to take advantage of this by Rank 5, you're probably not building AP.
Thanks for the numbers, this makes me feel better. Tankdinger was a bad build in my opinion anyway. I still think his regen passive is better than this new one though.
Kaeliwien (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=SpicerXD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jIEZxfck,comment-id=0136,timestamp=2017-05-03T15:03:05.332+0000) > The Q is nerfed early game! > - Q's damage is only "nerfed" if you don't have at least 40 AP, which you can easily get from runes. And the damage on his turrets is actually buffed if you go full AP in runes, which gives you 50 AP. not the complete truth. You need 100AP to equalize the nerf on lvl5 Q.
~~Also this assumes you aren't already running those ap runes/masteries.~~ See Spicer's post below.
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: The idea is that you are actually able to defend your turrets when people go to smash them, because your spells are helping your turrets survive. On live, the turrets just defend themselves which results in (usually) binary "i kill them, or I don't kill them and die" types of gameplay.
The best way to defend your turrets is to aa your opponent, but heimer's short aa range, long cd's, and large mana costs prevent him from spamming abilities and puts him too close to other midlaners to effectively aa. It's the main reason he works vs melee champs, they can't take auto attacks and turret damage at the same time without taking loads of damage. Maybe change his turrets to do different amounts of damage based on whether they aa melee or ranged champs, but increase heimers and turrets aa range.
: What if you tied some of the turret damage taken being split with Heimer? This could have the impact of rewarding melee by attacking Heimer's turret (so the melee wouldn't have to go in deep on Heimer) and also hurting Heimer. This could bring a hit and run reward to melee characters by tearing into his turret and heimer at the same time. Heimer then would have to be careful about where he puts turrets down. This would also help Heimer keep his turret alive longer against ranged opponents. This would require a lot of testing.
Yeah, before kled was revealed i mentioned a simular idea for Heimer. I think having a kled like health system with his turrets would make sense.
: Addressing the problems I see: RQ is very much NOT always correct. To counter Heimer's RQ, you do the same thing you do to counter Illaoi's ult - you can walk away. RW is a frequent use, and with an initiator with AOE hard CC, RE becomes an option (especially if one or two teammates are fed). With the proposed turret damage nerf (50% base meaning until Heimer gets AP items they're basically free gold for enemy laner) they would have no lane presence. Any champ laning against Heimer would bait out his W, then know they have 7-11 seconds to clear out Heimer's turrets unharmed. Rockets are a mana pig. Heimer, in general, is a mana pig. Lowering the CD on rockets as a way to charge beams - there's too much easy counterplay. Bait rockets, kill turret, repeat until heimer's out of mana, own lane. I have to go, unfortunately. Basically, this seems like it's turning Heimer into a mini-Ziggs and not Heimer. Heim does more poorly in higher ranks, but that's true of many champs, and isn't true for the many one-tricks that play Heimer in Diamond and higher. There are already mechanics in Heimer's kit to offer higher tier play for the mad scientist, and it's up to the player to discover and master them. Most of what's written here is centered around making Heimer easier for low tier players to deal with, and that's something that could be applied to any snowball or pushing champ.
Thanks for the update/feedback post. Been playing Heimer since season 2. The new passive doesn't seem to fit Heimer. He is one if the slowest champs in the game, so instead of making his speed from bad to mediocre we should be buffing other parts of his kit to make him the best at what he does zone control/poke/dps. Honestly I love his hp regen passive, drop the effect from helping your teammates and give him something somewhere else since no one on your team even knows your helping them anyway, or at least make it more noticeable that you are.
Shahamut (NA)
: Heimmer doesnt have counter play in lane, he can just get outscaled if you manage to somehow farm well. You have to hope for jungle ganks and even then, you have to hope your jungler isnt an idiot who just jumps in and dies to his 3 turrets and a stun grenade. :/ I am a top laner, so I wont speak for mid lane matchups.
Counter playing heimer just means not engaging him on his terms. Stay away from/destroy his turrets before attacking him. Don't feed him and you will inevitably outscale him. Even a fed heimer gets outscaled extremely easily.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 14
I'm glad heimer is being looked at, I think reducing his cooldowns would go a long way. As for counterplay, he already gets countered by people who know how he works and by your own team when they don't know how he works.
I Q (NA)
: They are adding sandbox mode this season
Nice to know! Thanks for the comment :D
Rioter Comments
Saianna (EUNE)
: I'd love to see a day where his turrets 90% of damage isn't hid behind that stupid beam. I miss old and plain turrets (with AOE).. So simple.. So effective... Sigh
The AOE and magic shred are sorely missed
: I like playing him as the carry down in bot rather than support. You can build his normal build, carry tp instead of heal and pretty much protect your lane from being totally blown apart. I find the only two adcs that were hard to play against was jhin and jinx, because of the dancing grenade/crit shot and the aoe respectively. I did find that he is useless with a diving support (Leona, etc) because the dps is in the turret range, not the aa. Having a morgana support, a blitz support and a sion were great, especially when sion brought his zzrot down.
that sounds fun :D reminds me of the good ol days of season 2 or 3.
: questions about heimer and the new masteries
Yeah each time they add a season I have to go and try to test out what works on heimer's turrets and what doesn't. I thought when they said they added a "training" mode it would let you just make customs and allow you to tinker with builds and masteries, but oh well.
: Why not reviving Heimerdinger as Support?
I think they could easily make heimer support viable if they let you toggle his turrets AI by like clicking his passive icon. Automatically have his turrets in normal mode, but click his passive icon and switch his turrets to attack champions only, maybe with some other benefit. I think this idea could be expanded very easily, and add a lot of dimension. Secondly reduce his cooldowns ffs.
: Let's Talk Heimer
Agreed, also as mentioned below i think it would be interesting to see how his kit would look if he scaled with AD instead.
AdeIe (EUW)
: [Champion Rework] Heimerdinger! the revered inventor concept
def worth exploring, I want to also just mention that his current kit would be fine if they just fixed the bugs and reduced his god awful cool downs. His long cool downs were even mentioned as needed buffing before the rework was even released. They just didn't feel like tweaking it since he was doing ok at the time.
: Heimerdinger should've gotten into the mage reworks
100% agree I think all he needs is a reduction in his cooldowns. He has like the highest out of all the mages.
Cabruh (NA)
: Some Proposed Heimerdinger Changes
I agree that they need to make some changes, I keep watching patch notes to see if he gets touched, but until then I have just stopped playing the game all together. I really think they just need to fix some of his bugs and reduce his cooldowns for him to be more effective.
: [GAMEPLAY] Heimerdinger Ult does not go off
OMG, I lost so many fights because of this glitch and I just chalked it up to that I must be bad... So many times I could have sworn I pressed the ult for those rockets and all this time it was a glitch.
: De-Objectifying Female Champions
Miss Fortune is the main offender, but I really hope they continue with female characters like jinx, Illaoi, and Tayliah who aren't just super thin and big breasted.
Rioter Comments
: heimerdinger buff
indeed he needs something.
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