Ralanr (NA)
: All games will have some level of statchecking, Riot can’t remove it all. Though Yasuo is a bad example considering his mobility and tools that rely on reaction. A better example of stat checking is someone like Shyvana, who literally runs you down and only punches you.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HyKmXPvt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-03-31T14:20:05.374+0000) > > All games will have some level of statchecking, Riot can’t remove it all. > > Though Yasuo is a bad example considering his mobility and tools that rely on reaction. A better example of stat checking is someone like Shyvana, who literally runs you down and only punches you. Yeah what is wrong with stat checking. Those champs allow you to excel at fundamentals and you don't have to spend a million games to learn the champ, I want more of them, not less.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T23:10:34.596+0000) > > Why would I take teleport in low elo solo Q, you cant make plays, because they don't ward, I used to, then I watched some coaching and they said it was stupid in low elo, so I ditched it. it's worked better. Dominate lane. Why would I gank lanes in low elo solo Q, laners will feed away the advantage anyway, because they don't ward, I used to, then I watched some coaching they said it was stupid in low elo, so I ditched it. It worked better. Dominate the jungle. See how that works? Like I said, you expect team play from the jungler, but you're not willing to have the same expectation placed on yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-08T00:51:02.128+0000) > > Why would I gank lanes in low elo solo Q, laners will feed away the advantage anyway, because they don't ward, I used to, then I watched some coaching they said it was stupid in low elo, so I ditched it. It worked better. Dominate the jungle. > > See how that works? > > Like I said, you expect team play from the jungler, but you're not willing to have the same expectation placed on yourself. No, it's not the same thing. Show me a coach that says not to gank in low elo. And don't gank, see a loss...Jungles job is to gank and control objectives ADC is to waveclear and kill tanks Mid is burst damage and waveclear top is tank/cc support is to protect the adc in lane until they can carry and ward (not all the warding, but they are the ones to ward objectives and clear enemy wards) So that's the basics, by silver everyone should know this.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T07:05:21.399+0000) > > you act like you can play anyway you want....it's not true if you want to win.....techincall you could play AD annie and if you're challenger you could carry, but most people cant, because that's a horrible way to play her. Look, like I explained before, ganking, and especially camping, has a cost. Even if you don't get counterjungled, if the small camps, not even including the buffs, sit idle for even 2 minutes while you're camping a lane, it's equivalent to a laner losing 4 waves worth of gold. And if you get counterjungled, it's even worse. I doubt you ever give up 4 minion waves of gold to help out another lane. Heck, you play solo lanes on most of your games, and you haven't taken teleport a single time, not even on Malphite who excels at surprise teleports because he has a massive impact with a built in gap close in a very compressed amount of time. That just goes to show how unwilling you are to sacrifice your progress for team play. However, you want to sit there high and mighty expecting the jungler to do just that.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-07T16:16:59.127+0000) > > Look, like I explained before, ganking, and especially camping, has a cost. Even if you don't get counterjungled, if the small camps, not even including the buffs, sit idle for even 2 minutes while you're camping a lane, it's equivalent to a laner losing 4 waves worth of gold. And if you get counterjungled, it's even worse. I doubt you ever give up 4 minion waves of gold to help out another lane. Heck, you play solo lanes on most of your games, and you haven't taken teleport a single time, not even on Malphite who excels at surprise teleports because he has a massive impact with a built in gap close in a very compressed amount of time. That just goes to show how unwilling you are to sacrifice your progress for team play. However, you want to sit there high and mighty expecting the jungler to do just that. Why would I take teleport in low elo solo Q, you cant make plays, because they don't ward, I used to, then I watched some coaching and they said it was stupid in low elo, so I ditched it. it's worked better. Dominate lane.
: They nerfed {{champion:555}} 100 times before they nerfed him once I could easily play against him... He used to damage minions with his E He used to damage everyone in his short Q => Pyke no longer has waveclear and he is mainly and mainly support plus his damage isn't spread if he catches more people because nope you only deal damage to one target at the time which makes him a ballanced assasin - sure he can kill you if he lands everything - if he **LANDS** everything his Q has obvious sound and animation too evertyhing exept autoattacks from him you can dodge and I'm sure they nerfed more than just these things I said Play Pyke/Ban him if you don't like him but in the end he isn't broken
> [{quoted}](name=DamSonWhUFndThis,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LEY8M0yf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-07T13:00:51.580+0000) > > They nerfed {{champion:555}} 100 times before they nerfed him once I could easily play against him... > He used to damage minions with his E > He used to damage everyone in his short Q > => Pyke no longer has waveclear and he is mainly and mainly support plus his damage isn't spread if he catches more people because nope you only deal damage to one target at the time which makes him a ballanced assasin - sure he can kill you if he lands everything - if he **LANDS** everything his Q has obvious sound and animation too evertyhing exept autoattacks from him you can dodge and I'm sure they nerfed more than just these things I said > > Play Pyke/Ban him if you don't like him but in the end he isn't broken The biggest issue with pyke is he does nothing in lane, but in teamfights he just presses R, gets a triple and he's right back in it, he's the karthus of supports...
Baval (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghI3lUy2,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-11-06T18:58:25.305+0000) > > True, but the problem is these people feed hard VERY EARLY in the game. I play a lot of diana, many times pre 6 my bot lane feeds like 6 kills, so pre 6 what do you want me to do, go bot, lose cs (as a smart mid would push to my turret deny me cs and get plates), and stare at them? Also people that suck don't know how to skirmish so you end up dying anyway. I don't know how man times I roam bot and my bot BACKS off???? WHY????? They need to engage.....it's common sense....how do you talk to people so dumb? > > > And of course my favorite is the late roam. people who see their laner went top so instead of taking the tower they follow and then do nothing as top is dead by the time they arrive.... you talk to people by talking to them. announce that youre planning to roam bot and what you want them to do before you even start going there so they can be prepared for the fight rather than in a bad position, as people at your rank (not to be offensive) tend to have lower map awareness and will sometimes blow their cooldowns or get in bad trades right before a gank happens, making them feel like they cant contribute safely to the fight. Furthermore as Diana youre kind of expected to be the one making the engage, not the ADC, hence what I talked about about sacrificing for the team. You might die being the first one into the fight, but if you supply your ADC and support with kills theres a good chance youll only have to come back once if at all to secure them an advantage. If youre good enough to then come back to your lane and play only slightly behind (youre still getting the assists after all) then youll be fine, if youre not then you dont really have the right to complain that they cant play from behind without help. Late roam isnt entirely the late roamers fault, if you see the late roam you yourself should be moving to head off the roamer in the jungle rather than waiting for them to arrive in lane and get a safe kill where they can retreat to tower. Oftentimes once again an immediate roam simply puts the laner in jeopardy as not every laner can safely follow their opponent outside of lane, such as in the event of a poker vs an engager, but can easily turn a fight in progress.
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghI3lUy2,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-11-07T12:24:17.109+0000) > > you talk to people by talking to them. announce that youre planning to roam bot and what you want them to do before you even start going there so they can be prepared for the fight rather than in a bad position, as people at your rank (not to be offensive) tend to have lower map awareness and will sometimes blow their cooldowns or get in bad trades right before a gank happens, making them feel like they cant contribute safely to the fight. > > Furthermore as Diana youre kind of expected to be the one making the engage, not the ADC, hence what I talked about about sacrificing for the team. You might die being the first one into the fight, but if you supply your ADC and support with kills theres a good chance youll only have to come back once if at all to secure them an advantage. If youre good enough to then come back to your lane and play only slightly behind (youre still getting the assists after all) then youll be fine, if youre not then you dont really have the right to complain that they cant play from behind without help. > > Late roam isnt entirely the late roamers fault, if you see the late roam you yourself should be moving to head off the roamer in the jungle rather than waiting for them to arrive in lane and get a safe kill where they can retreat to tower. Oftentimes once again an immediate roam simply puts the laner in jeopardy as not every laner can safely follow their opponent outside of lane, such as in the event of a poker vs an engager, but can easily turn a fight in progress. I have tried being the one engaging and my team just stares, I expect people in my rank to have my skill level...….isn't that the point of a rank? Also if you cant match the roam, TAKE THE TOWER...it works way better, one you pressure them to come back to lane, and if they do, they lost a shit ton, and if they continue with their gank and it fails, they lost lane hard, if it succeeds they might be even...….
Kai Guy (NA)
: Skill is not a known variable with zero data. You can not run a skill ladder or a skill MM system with 0 information on some ones skill. So MMR MM is not just "skill biased matchmaking" its also the system that has to measure out skill. There would be no need to Rate players if we could instantly know how good they are. Skill is not a constant, its changes, people can improve or get worse. MMR ratings represent a mean performance average. If you don't want to see "newbies" in your games you only need the ability to climb above the MMR they exist in. If you cant do that despite the fact the player your complaining about will with LLN provide more wins then losses, you lack the ability to play at that level. > The thing is that it shouldn't happen. It just ruins games. No matter what you say to justify it, it's just fucking over actual silver/gold players. The populations skill curve of Rating wont change. Swaping the titles wont fix it. Its going to be a system built around averages. So, change the starting value, ladder will distribute to match that change. This fucks over ALL players. Those silver/Gold folks are now sinking slowly into the new starting MMR, and now not only do they still get the games your calling unacceptable their rank is also dropped to what ever you set as "starting" Raiting. Iron, bronze. Where ever you put it, that's where a majority of the player base will be playing. > In oder for game to be competitve you need a competition on both sides. How is playing against a literal newbie and sweeping the floor with him a competition? Spoiler alert, it's not. The have some time to learn the game prior to queing for ranked. If some one thinks they have the ability and goes into ranked lacking that ability? bo hoo. That's on them. You compeate with out the ability to back it up then you pay the price. That's life. No devs are obligated to hold some ones hand and spoon feed them skill. Again, that's only gonna happen in a fraction of a players games. Better MM lowers the Frequency. I wont make any claims for riots system apart from I do believe there is room for them to improve their MM. If you do something stupid, run a secondary skill curve, the exact same issue happens. Its already something you can observe. Normal are an independent curve. If you don't have the "skill" from normal going into ranked you get demolished. Same issue, If you make a secondary curve for high uncertainty players for ranked, then when they start to blend into the curve, if they cant cut it, they get demolished. The main difference is that because they spend time in a separate que that gives them inaccurate raitings, when they blend they do so at a wider range of the ladder. Impacting more games, and because you only blend when uncertainty would be lower? they spend more time IN the main population curve fucking up more games. Its better to run a high K, dead weight will sink from that. People who can stomp will climb. No attempts to match skill are not competitive. MMR is the best option. It has its flaws, but its proven to work. Just needs the data, and it will have mismatched games from high uncertainty. > Yea, if people actually manage to escape from an MMR of a newbie. But thats kinda hard for some of us, since it wont stop until mid/high gold. So losing a game because we were unlucky enough to get a newbie whos barely able to move, let alone play properly, on top of other bs, while having 0 control over it, is not fair. If you think it's fair then it's the same as thinking having a troll in your team is fair aswell. But at that point you would lose all credibility. The point is that, if I go in ranked and I'm silver 2, I want to play with actual silvers. I dont want to play with a fresh lvl 30 who got his silver MMR by default. I want players of my skill level which should increase as my elo increases. I agree, A majority of games with a good MM should be exactly what you want. Your an established silver 2 player? Majority of what you play should be with established players and mismatches from uncertainty are not a majority. I can only relay information as it stands. The curve will adjust to a change of starting MMR value to make that become the majority range. This is how its designed and how it measures player skill. The way the math functions for averages and probability is going to create the same end results with LLN. Same way Because Its multiple games, not single ones. I do consider having a troll on my team "fair." I think it makes the match complete shit and not fun. I am not an idiot whos going to claim it makes "fair gameplay" But I will have more wins then lose because of trolls. If the enemy team had the ability to get that troll or what BS toxic behavior some one chose to do. That's fair. Randomness is fair in how it treats people. Acting like things that only impact my team are the only things that matter is unfair. Gameplay is completely irrelevant to Elo systems. 1 or 0. win or loss. Quality or concern for how much fun it was are not tracked or considered variables. That's why I direct people to get annoyed at Riots behavior systems. To request improvements to ban and remove trolls and toxic accounts ASAP. they suck all the fun out of a game. I don't enjoy losing because of egos. I don't find winning because some one is running it down mid to be fun. This is not something MM will care about. I know that sounds weird, so please don't blindly trust me or disbelieve me. Go and look it up. [Its well documented.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) Think for a second why can Elo be used for so many different sports and games and even abstractions like a MM algorithms for literally Matchmaking dating sites like Tinder? What I am trying to explain, its probability systems not game design. Look into it, you should be able to see if this is the truth behind the reason it can be used to make ratings for songs on sites like pandora, popularity on Facebook, chess, scrabble, football, or curling. Its breakdown of possible outcomes into likely hood of those outcomes then comparison to see if there's a gap between expectations vs reality. If skill could be accurately judge with out data? that would be nice. The treatment of all players is equal, the behavior of the system is always the same. That's about all the "Fairness" you will get and should expect. You want to see Truly competitive? Its not gonna be a RNG que in a team game. Its gonna be premade 5 man teams. Proplay is a pro team for that reason. You want to play a majority of your games vs your peers? Elo and MMR systems do that but are not at all perfect and cant accurate rate people with low data. LLN needs time to shine.
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=000300000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-04T00:18:23.663+0000) > > Skill is not a known variable with zero data. > > You can not run a skill ladder or a skill MM system with 0 information on some ones skill. So MMR MM is not just "skill biased matchmaking" its also the system that has to measure out skill. > > There would be no need to Rate players if we could instantly know how good they are. Skill is not a constant, its changes, people can improve or get worse. MMR ratings represent a mean performance average. > > If you don't want to see "newbies" in your games you only need the ability to climb above the MMR they exist in. If you cant do that despite the fact the player your complaining about will with LLN provide more wins then losses, you lack the ability to play at that level. > > The populations skill curve of Rating wont change. Swaping the titles wont fix it. Its going to be a system built around averages. So, change the starting value, ladder will distribute to match that change. This fucks over ALL players. Those silver/Gold folks are now sinking slowly into the new starting MMR, and now not only do they still get the games your calling unacceptable their rank is also dropped to what ever you set as "starting" Raiting. Iron, bronze. Where ever you put it, that's where a majority of the player base will be playing. > > The have some time to learn the game prior to queing for ranked. If some one thinks they have the ability and goes into ranked lacking that ability? bo hoo. That's on them. You compeate with out the ability to back it up then you pay the price. That's life. No devs are obligated to hold some ones hand and spoon feed them skill. > > Again, that's only gonna happen in a fraction of a players games. Better MM lowers the Frequency. I wont make any claims for riots system apart from I do believe there is room for them to improve their MM. > > If you do something stupid, run a secondary skill curve, the exact same issue happens. > > Its already something you can observe. > > Normal are an independent curve. If you don't have the "skill" from normal going into ranked you get demolished. > > Same issue, If you make a secondary curve for high uncertainty players for ranked, then when they start to blend into the curve, if they cant cut it, they get demolished. The main difference is that because they spend time in a separate que that gives them inaccurate raitings, when they blend they do so at a wider range of the ladder. Impacting more games, and because you only blend when uncertainty would be lower? they spend more time IN the main population curve fucking up more games. > > Its better to run a high K, dead weight will sink from that. People who can stomp will climb. > > No attempts to match skill are not competitive. MMR is the best option. It has its flaws, but its proven to work. Just needs the data, and it will have mismatched games from high uncertainty. > If you think it's fair then it's the same as thinking having a troll in your team is fair aswell. But at that point you would lose all credibility. > The point is that, if I go in ranked and I'm silver 2, I want to play with actual silvers. I dont want to play with a fresh lvl 30 who got his silver MMR by default. I want players of my skill level which should increase as my elo increases. > > I agree, A majority of games with a good MM should be exactly what you want. Your an established silver 2 player? Majority of what you play should be with established players and mismatches from uncertainty are not a majority. > > I can only relay information as it stands. The curve will adjust to a change of starting MMR value to make that become the majority range. This is how its designed and how it measures player skill. The way the math functions for averages and probability is going to create the same end results with LLN. Same way > > Because Its multiple games, not single ones. I do consider having a troll on my team "fair." I think it makes the match complete shit and not fun. I am not an idiot whos going to claim it makes "fair gameplay" But I will have more wins then lose because of trolls. > If the enemy team had the ability to get that troll or what BS toxic behavior some one chose to do. That's fair. Randomness is fair in how it treats people. Acting like things that only impact my team are the only things that matter is unfair. > > Gameplay is completely irrelevant to Elo systems. 1 or 0. win or loss. Quality or concern for how much fun it was are not tracked or considered variables. > > That's why I direct people to get annoyed at Riots behavior systems. To request improvements to ban and remove trolls and toxic accounts ASAP. they suck all the fun out of a game. I don't enjoy losing because of egos. I don't find winning because some one is running it down mid to be fun. This is not something MM will care about. > > I know that sounds weird, so please don't blindly trust me or disbelieve me. Go and look it up. [Its well documented.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system) > > Think for a second why can Elo be used for so many different sports and games and even abstractions like a MM algorithms for literally Matchmaking dating sites like Tinder? > > What I am trying to explain, its probability systems not game design. Look into it, you should be able to see if this is the truth behind the reason it can be used to make ratings for songs on sites like pandora, popularity on Facebook, chess, scrabble, football, or curling. Its breakdown of possible outcomes into likely hood of those outcomes then comparison to see if there's a gap between expectations vs reality. > > > > If skill could be accurately judge with out data? that would be nice. > The treatment of all players is equal, the behavior of the system is always the same. That's about all the "Fairness" you will get and should expect. > > You want to see Truly competitive? Its not gonna be a RNG que in a team game. Its gonna be premade 5 man teams. Proplay is a pro team for that reason. > > You want to play a majority of your games vs your peers? Elo and MMR systems do that but are not at all perfect and cant accurate rate people with low data. LLN needs time to shine. So what data is needed to determine skill? I know it's not kda/csing because I can see those numbers of teammates and they blow most of the time.
Kai Guy (NA)
: I get it. That's a common view. Let me guess, You call it a streak at 3-4 games? That's also a common. You tell me when you start to count a streak. But 2 games is technically a streak. Why not use that? Does it feel just a bit low? Don't want to use the absolute minimum value. How much better is 3 at as the second lowest option? I ask folks to learn the math becuase it matters. If you want here is the breakdown. To make it easy in the examples I am using 2 as a streak. The combinations of possible results in 2 games are WW,WL,LW,LL. Now 1 win 1 loss as a result is higher odds, as the order does not impact it. 50% see a result of 1w1l. 25% 2w 25% 2l. But 2l and 2w is a streak so 50% streak vs non streak. Elo is probability. Its a curve. 25% 50% 25%. Streaks? 50% 50% they dont match up at all. Its going to get worse not better. 3 games? 2^3= 8. 3w or 3l is 2/8 reduced thats 1/4 = 0.25=25% to see a streak of 3 going eather direction. If we stop here, looks like the % went down right? But I am counting and looking for 2 game streaks not 3 games. That's also WWL.LWW.WLL.LLW. 3w 3l are still streaks and WLW.LWL. are not good. So 2/8. Are not a streak and 6/8 are. 75% you will see a streak. Probability curve is a mix made of 3l 2l1w 2w1l 3w. So. 1/8 3/8 3/8 1/8 =12.5% 37.5% 37.5% 12.5% 4 games 2^4. 16 possible combinations. Only 2 combinations don't have a streak. WLWL and LWLW. So 14/16 = 7/8 = 87.5% odds to find a streak. At 5 games you hit 32 possible results. And you dont just see 1 streak but can find 2 streaks in 1 set. More games more you see streaks. You ever consider relevance of how many games? You want to hear how people fuck up on WR? You ever stop and ask yourself why you think streaks matter? Who told you they did? WLWLWLWL is a nice pattern.... Its not a common one. 1/256.
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000000000010000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-06T22:40:33.109+0000) > > I get it. That's a common view. > Let me guess, You call it a streak at 3-4 games? That's also a common. You tell me when you start to count a streak. > > But 2 games is technically a streak. Why not use that? Does it feel just a bit low? Don't want to use the absolute minimum value. How much better is 3 at as the second lowest option? > > I ask folks to learn the math becuase it matters. If you want here is the breakdown. > > To make it easy in the examples I am using 2 as a streak. The combinations of possible results in 2 games are WW,WL,LW,LL. Now 1 win 1 loss as a result is higher odds, as the order does not impact it. 50% see a result of 1w1l. 25% 2w 25% 2l. But 2l and 2w is a streak so 50% streak vs non streak. Elo is probability. Its a curve. 25% 50% 25%. Streaks? 50% 50% they dont match up at all. Its going to get worse not better. > > 3 games? 2^3= 8. 3w or 3l is 2/8 reduced thats 1/4 = 0.25=25% to see a streak of 3 going eather direction. If we stop here, looks like the % went down right? But I am counting and looking for 2 game streaks not 3 games. That's also WWL.LWW.WLL.LLW. 3w 3l are still streaks and WLW.LWL. are not good. So 2/8. Are not a streak and 6/8 are. 75% you will see a streak. Probability curve is a mix made of 3l 2l1w 2w1l 3w. So. 1/8 3/8 3/8 1/8 =12.5% 37.5% 37.5% 12.5% > > 4 games 2^4. 16 possible combinations. Only 2 combinations don't have a streak. WLWL and LWLW. So 14/16 = 7/8 = 87.5% odds to find a streak. > > At 5 games you hit 32 possible results. And you dont just see 1 streak but can find 2 streaks in 1 set. > > More games more you see streaks. You ever consider relevance of how many games? > > You want to hear how people fuck up on WR? > > You ever stop and ask yourself why you think streaks matter? Who told you they did? > WLWLWLWL is a nice pattern.... Its not a common one. 1/256. No I'm talking like 8 games+ I've been on win streaks of 15 games, and some losing streaks of 10 games, I learned support just because of how bad the bot lane feeds. It's usually squishy supports, you play Leona or naut, very rarely feed, why don't more people do that?
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T22:14:16.633+0000) > > I'm not saying they have to gank my lane, and yes when I roam sometimes bot just runs under turret (my bot, I have NO idea why) so yes those are conditions, but that's not most games, most games, I have junglers who try to power farm and counter jungle, ones that gank usually win, ones that try season 2 counter jungling tactics lose. Like I said, you want to be able to demand that your jungler plays the way you want them to play, but you don't like it when someone else makes demands on how you should play.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T23:19:03.239+0000) > > Like I said, you want to be able to demand that your jungler plays the way you want them to play, but you don't like it when someone else makes demands on how you should play. you act like you can play anyway you want....it's not true if you want to win.....techincall you could play AD annie and if you're challenger you could carry, but most people cant, because that's a horrible way to play her.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:38:49.821+0000) > > no, that is untrue, junglers blame laners a ton. When they counter jungle with out priority in mid or a sidelane, they run in and die, and complain no one helped them. it happens ALOT. Or they gank when I have a massive wave hitting my tower and complain I was farming. Junglers do blame laners a lot man. When I jungle, I rarely counter jungle and we don't have stupid deaths. I mean you are already blaming laners in your post. > > I don't blame junglers if I lose lane, if their top shits on me, that's on me, what I don't like is when I get camped, and my jungle doesn't do anything. And that happens ALOT, just just autopilot farm and never gank. It's a gank meta, either pick ones that gank well or lose. It's why shyvanna, yi and those kinds of jungles pretty much suck now, because their players don't even try to impact anything. I gank with yi level 3 and get a kill many times, but most yi's wont even look at a pre 6 gank and they suck. Yes, but look at what you're saying. The jungler shouldn't be upset when you don't want to do what the jungler wants you to do - assist in a gank when you have a big wave to farm - but you can be upset that the jungler doesn't want to do what you want the jungler to do. If the jungler path's bot and bot engages and loses before he gets there, he can't do dragon, as he won't have priority. So all he can do is farm. He can try to invade, but without bot priority that's risky too. His only other option is to try for mid, which can often be a difficult lane to gank, or he can continue up into his top side jungle. We've already established that you don't have priority, so again, stuck. So you path through river, clear any wards, possibly set a deep ward, and that's it. 5 minutes of clearing (2 sets of small camps, 1 set of buffs) is about 1116 gold for the jungler. Doing 1 clear and then being late for the respawn of the small camps costs the jungler 458 gold due to ganking, as the camps won't respawn until they're killed. To put that into perspective, minion waves give about 125 gold per wave. If a jungler is 2 minutes late on clearing his small camps because he's camping top lane, it costs him the equivalent of almost 4 minion waves of gold. Imagine the jungler expecting you to give up 4 waves to help him counterjungle. The above are of course a hypothetical situations, but the point is not hypothetical. You don't want the jungler to demand you do something, but feel its okay for you to demand the jungler does something.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T21:14:26.318+0000) > > Yes, but look at what you're saying. The jungler shouldn't be upset when you don't want to do what the jungler wants you to do - assist in a gank when you have a big wave to farm - but you can be upset that the jungler doesn't want to do what you want the jungler to do. If the jungler path's bot and bot engages and loses before he gets there, he can't do dragon, as he won't have priority. So all he can do is farm. He can try to invade, but without bot priority that's risky too. His only other option is to try for mid, which can often be a difficult lane to gank, or he can continue up into his top side jungle. We've already established that you don't have priority, so again, stuck. So you path through river, clear any wards, possibly set a deep ward, and that's it. > > 5 minutes of clearing (2 sets of small camps, 1 set of buffs) is about 1116 gold for the jungler. Doing 1 clear and then being late for the respawn of the small camps costs the jungler 458 gold due to ganking, as the camps won't respawn until they're killed. To put that into perspective, minion waves give about 125 gold per wave. If a jungler is 2 minutes late on clearing his small camps because he's camping top lane, it costs him the equivalent of almost 4 minion waves of gold. Imagine the jungler expecting you to give up 4 waves to help him counterjungle. > > The above are of course a hypothetical situations, but the point is not hypothetical. You don't want the jungler to demand you do something, but feel its okay for you to demand the jungler does something. I'm not saying they have to gank my lane, and yes when I roam sometimes bot just runs under turret (my bot, I have NO idea why) so yes those are conditions, but that's not most games, most games, I have junglers who try to power farm and counter jungle, ones that gank usually win, ones that try season 2 counter jungling tactics lose.
Saezio (EUNE)
: >Wait so you're saying new accounts will lose because they are only playing with new accounts? I am saying you can't evaluate an unknown variable correlating it to another unknown variable. > If they are any good at all, it won't take long. If they are any good at all, they belong at least in silver. and again, you don't know who they are playing against if they are playing vs other new accounts. And to be completely blunt, put them at 50% of the mmr ladder, silver is piss easy to carry even as a new player so it's not unimaginable they are way better than silver.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=0005000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T21:18:33.250+0000) > > I am saying you can't evaluate an unknown variable correlating it to another unknown variable. > > If they are any good at all, they belong at least in silver. and again, you don't know who they are playing against if they are playing vs other new accounts. > > And to be completely blunt, put them at 50% of the mmr ladder, silver is piss easy to carry even as a new player so it's not unimaginable they are way better than silver. That is not true, I've had newbies, not a single one of them came close to carrying a game, they feed their asses off and make the game an autoloss. This game takes time to understand and rushing into ranked at level 30 after playing a bunch or arams does not make you a good player. I'm gold, low silver I can dumpster, higher silver sometimes I can, but not always and it really sucks having new players on your team. Just put them in the bottom and they will climb out. Who cares about who they are playing against, just win and get that 100 LP to get into promos.
: You're playing Kayn... why are you not ganking the fuck out of everyone with you busted ability to move through walls? It just sounds like your a terrible jungler.
> [{quoted}](name=Azurereaper,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ppcIwRoz,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-06T08:08:16.184+0000) > > You're playing Kayn... why are you not ganking the fuck out of everyone with you busted ability to move through walls? > > It just sounds like your a terrible jungler. I had a kayn that said he couldn't gank til 6, I've had wukong that wouldn't either and the best was a nocturn who didn't even ult once the entire game (not one darkness in a 20 min game)
: Yeah I agree with this, its a gank meta, and counter jungling is the weakest response, but its still better than nothing. HOWEVER, sometimes one lane is just straight INTing, and your other to lanes are mindlessly shoving with no map awareness or any concept of how to setup a gank. So it really depends on who is at fault here. I've had games where i have low KP, but its because my laners are just dieing non stop in 1v1 and 2v2 even when Im pinging Im on the way! Sometimes your laners just DONT LET YOU help them for some reason?! then they get mad at you too. Not saying this is you, but this is a reality of low ELO.
> [{quoted}](name=ClevelandfCj,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ppcIwRoz,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2019-11-06T21:28:12.984+0000) > > Yeah I agree with this, its a gank meta, and counter jungling is the weakest response, but its still better than nothing. HOWEVER, sometimes one lane is just straight INTing, and your other to lanes are mindlessly shoving with no map awareness or any concept of how to setup a gank. So it really depends on who is at fault here. I've had games where i have low KP, but its because my laners are just dieing non stop in 1v1 and 2v2 even when Im pinging Im on the way! Sometimes your laners just DONT LET YOU help them for some reason?! then they get mad at you too. Not saying this is you, but this is a reality of low ELO. Very true, that also happens a lot. If you're getting dumpstered by your laner, it's on you. I don't care about counters and all those excuses. I play darius into Teemo all the time or Diana into lux in mid and win hard, but Diana in shaco is horrific, I was straight dumpster that game. The problem is NA is very passive and farm heavy (when I play Leona support, the one thing I dread from my adc, is "I just want to farm"). So in lanes it does happen a lot, it's just there are a lot of junglers that all they do is farm and counter jungle, putting zero pressure, and the laners get frustrated. For example, if I'm top and take all their jg pressure and my jg is helping bot lane get ahead, grabbing drags, you wont hear me bitch, but if I'm having to use sums and ults and such to survive and nothing is going on, im gonna rage.
: New to League and have Some Thoughts
It's a competitive game, winning is the point. I'm not sure what you expected, were you in ranked? It's not about being pro or impressing anyone. It's about winning, play a team sport like football or basketball.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=ClevelandfCj,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=ppcIwRoz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-06T07:41:39.759+0000) > > This. > > Most laners deserve loss. My favorite is to go 5-0+ in jungle, have team score be something like 7-20. Then just soft AFK while they verbal abuse me. Hilarious IMO! Just flash on them and drop some wards on them for more hilarious insults. Wait 5 -0, that means you did something, most junglers I get have a zero KP....if i'm lucky zero deaths as well....if you are getting ganked, then your jungle needs to get objectives or gank SOMEONE.....counter jungling is useless and does nothing......the jungle is in a state where they don't get punished for missing a few camps, if they get kills in a lane
: Exact problem with the league community
Sorry about that man. IT sucks. The problem with this game is you are not allowed to criticize anyone and so people find other ways of communicating. And people in this culture can not take any criticism, it's ridiculous. If an ADC is whinging about warwick and I ask him why don't you have a executioners, somehow I'm the badguy…..people are way to coddled...….words don't hurt me, but feeding loses me LP.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:34:58.344+0000) > > That's assuming a lot. That happens all the time, and I look at my jg, and he has the same cs as the opposing one, yet the enemy ganks and mine does not, that really really PISSES me off and when I play top and get camped, and my jg doesn't take dragon, it really really pisses me off. > > If my team were dominating I wouldn't complain, but when my team just freezes while their laner roams or my jg just farms while theirs impacts the map, yeah I'm not gonna be quiet about it. Yea dude, that's called the jungler getting outplayed. It's no different from you getting zoned off of CS and EXP solo by your laning opponent, or you getting solo-killed by the laning opponent. The difference is, when the jungler gets outplayed, gets counterjungled, gets objectives taken uncontested, the jungler doesn't turn around and point the finger at the laner. However, it's actually a team responsibility to get control of vision. It's a team responsibility to protect against invades, to pressure their lanes when their jungler invades to prevent the enemy from responding, to move towards dragons, rift heralds, so that the jungler can secure them safely. Laners want teamwork when it suits them, but if you ask what they do to help the jungler, they almost always come up blank.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:26:10.914+0000) > > Yea dude, that's called the jungler getting outplayed. It's no different from you getting zoned off of CS and EXP solo by your laning opponent, or you getting solo-killed by the laning opponent. The difference is, when the jungler gets outplayed, gets counterjungled, gets objectives taken uncontested, the jungler doesn't turn around and point the finger at the laner. However, it's actually a team responsibility to get control of vision. It's a team responsibility to protect against invades, to pressure their lanes when their jungler invades to prevent the enemy from responding, to move towards dragons, rift heralds, so that the jungler can secure them safely. Laners want teamwork when it suits them, but if you ask what they do to help the jungler, they almost always come up blank. no, that is untrue, junglers blame laners a ton. When they counter jungle with out priority in mid or a sidelane, they run in and die, and complain no one helped them. it happens ALOT. Or they gank when I have a massive wave hitting my tower and complain I was farming. Junglers do blame laners a lot man. When I jungle, I rarely counter jungle and we don't have stupid deaths. I mean you are already blaming laners in your post. I don't blame junglers if I lose lane, if their top shits on me, that's on me, what I don't like is when I get camped, and my jungle doesn't do anything. And that happens ALOT, just just autopilot farm and never gank. It's a gank meta, either pick ones that gank well or lose. It's why shyvanna, yi and those kinds of jungles pretty much suck now, because their players don't even try to impact anything. I gank with yi level 3 and get a kill many times, but most yi's wont even look at a pre 6 gank and they suck.
Saezio (EUNE)
: even at iron 4 they would have MMR equal to the mid of the ladder. Smurfs won't have a problem cruising through those tiers, but considering iron 4 is as populated as challenger, you understand how it will be actual elo hell. And what happens when you introduce someone to the ladder at iron 4 MMR like you want, and they lose because they are essentially playing only with new accounts because the actual iron 4 accounts are next to non-existant? How do you value that loss? They played vs new players with new players in their team. Sooo... how can you evaluate the skill of all 10 players in that game, since you haven't evaluated any of those players previously?
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=00050001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T20:25:28.728+0000) > > even at iron 4 they would have MMR equal to the mid of the ladder. > > Smurfs won't have a problem cruising through those tiers, but considering iron 4 is as populated as challenger, you understand how it will be actual elo hell. > > And what happens when you introduce someone to the ladder at iron 4 MMR like you want, and they lose because they are essentially playing only with new accounts because the actual iron 4 accounts are next to non-existant? How do you value that loss? They played vs new players with new players in their team. Sooo... how can you evaluate the skill of all 10 players in that game, since you haven't evaluated any of those players previously? Wait so you're saying new accounts will lose because they are only playing with new accounts? I have no issue with that. that's where they learn to carry a game. If they are any good at all, it won't take long. I just don't want them in my gold and silver games feeding or behind 50 cs by 10 min. It's not about evaluating the skill, if they do well they go to iron 3 and if they win, they go to iron 2, ect, eventually they will stop winning. Rikght now the ladder does not take performance into account, so It would not be missing anything, otherwise take their kda/cs/tower damage, objective damge ect into account.
: > [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AtAXWqE7,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-06T00:37:41.010+0000) > > It will continue to give adaptive force. It says on Surrenderat20 though [New Effect] "Basic attacks or spells that deal damage to an enemy champion grant 2 stacks of Conqueror for 8s, gaining ?X? Attack Damage per stack. Stacks up to 10 times. Ranged champions gain only 1 stack per basic attack. When fully stacked, heal for 15% of the damage you deal to champions." It says only Attack Damage not Adaptive Force. (http://www.surrenderat20.net/2019/11/115-pbe-update-pulsefire-thresh.html#more)
> [{quoted}](name=The Stripy Bag,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AtAXWqE7,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T00:44:10.533+0000) > > It says on Surrenderat20 though [New Effect] "Basic attacks or spells that deal damage to an enemy champion grant 2 stacks of Conqueror for 8s, gaining ?X? Attack Damage per stack. Stacks up to 10 times. Ranged champions gain only 1 stack per basic attack. > When fully stacked, heal for 15% of the damage you deal to champions." > > It says only Attack Damage not Adaptive Force. > > (http://www.surrenderat20.net/2019/11/115-pbe-update-pulsefire-thresh.html#more) What do the patch notes say?
Latarnia40 (EUNE)
: How do I play aginst a AP malphite? He is too strong right now.
wait comet? That means he's missing ultimate hunter or presence of mind.....it means this malphite sucks. I play a lot of ap malph. He's not hard to defend, malphite wrecks people who don't adjust and who are bad. First thing, get some mr Banshee's veil is awesome or a hexdrinker/maw Second thing is to ward and find him. And never group on top of each other Or Initiate on him....For example I'll play nocturn and ill just ult on to him, he either dies or tries to ult me. If I time my W, his ult is wasted.... If' i'm darius I'll frontline for the team and when we are ready, I'll go right for him, again he needs to ult me of I catch him and he's dead. AP Malph is very very squishy....take advantage of that. you have to force him to choose his target and then blow his load, if he's running comet his CD will be pretty high, so it shouldn't be that bad.
Sirsir (NA)
: Learn to play around it. if he took D Ring on support he's an incredible idiot. You can't count on those kinds of people to improve their behavior, you need to figure out how to play around it. Side note asking for reports is seen as toxic, and supposedly one report is as good as 9. Report him, wipe him from your memory as he's not worth the brain space, and move on.
> [{quoted}](name=Sirsir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bTOApdhq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-11-05T01:09:47.370+0000) > > Learn to play around it. > > if he took D Ring on support he's an incredible idiot. You can't count on those kinds of people to improve their behavior, you need to figure out how to play around it. > > Side note asking for reports is seen as toxic, and supposedly one report is as good as 9. > > Report him, wipe him from your memory as he's not worth the brain space, and move on. See, this is bs, he's the one causing the issue, the vel koz should take the penalty. It's not the op's fault this dbag was made support and his life sucks. Why are we always blaming the people who react, rather than the people who start the shit in the first place.
Saezio (EUNE)
: You have to put new players in the place you soft-reset to. OR, imo, Riot need to hard reset the entire ranked ladder because really it's been 10 years... it's about time. Now, if you make that hard reset to the BOTTOM of the MMR ladder, it means that by definition, half the player base will end up LOWER than the bottom of the MMR ladder (negative MMR? lol) you can't have that. And even if you don't hard reset, if you feed the new players to the bottom of the ladder, it means that given enough time, the average MMR of the entire ladder will fall due to new players. P.S. it also means that every single smurf has to pass through iron bronze silver and gold. Where as atm they only start existing in plat as a somewhat regular occurrence.
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=000500010000,timestamp=2019-11-06T19:36:16.298+0000) > > You have to put new players in the place you soft-reset to. > OR, imo, Riot need to hard reset the entire ranked ladder because really it's been 10 years... it's about time. > > Now, if you make that hard reset to the BOTTOM of the MMR ladder, it means that by definition, half the player base will end up LOWER than the bottom of the MMR ladder (negative MMR? lol) you can't have that. > And even if you don't hard reset, if you feed the new players to the bottom of the ladder, it means that given enough time, the average MMR of the entire ladder will fall due to new players. > > P.S. it also means that every single smurf has to pass through iron bronze silver and gold. Where as atm they only start existing in plat as a somewhat regular occurrence. Actually I agree with a hard reset and for smurfs having to go through Iron, bronze and silver, that is fine...they should be able to cruise through it. It will also stop them from throwing so they can demote into those leagues. As for the negative, that doesn't make sense, stop with the bell curve. Just let people play, if they win they go up, if not they go down, if they are iron 4, that's all they go down to.
Cräfty (EUW)
: {{champion:24}} and {{champion:75}} have a weak early game that is easily exploitable: Jax needs to utilize his E to win trades, so all you need to do is bait out his E and poke him while his E is on CD. It's the same way you beat {{champion:122}} in lane: bait out his Q and poke him. Nasus only scales towards late game. As long as you poke him out of lane and harass him early on, he won't have the stacks necessary to win his team the early/mid fights...
> [{quoted}](name=Cräfty,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EOXE0WAy,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-06T10:44:37.628+0000) > > {{champion:24}} and {{champion:75}} have a weak early game that is easily exploitable: Jax needs to utilize his E to win trades, so all you need to do is bait out his E and poke him while his E is on CD. It's the same way you beat {{champion:122}} in lane: bait out his Q and poke him. > > Nasus only scales towards late game. As long as you poke him out of lane and harass him early on, he won't have the stacks necessary to win his team the early/mid fights... Nah, Nasus is now ridiculous.. with his Q stacks. after he hits 6, I cant touch him, even with darius, so annoying
: > [{quoted}](name=Tr4shB4NSYST3M,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gof3MTRl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-04T20:39:01.921+0000) > Artificial difficulty is exactly how this promo series felt to me, it didn't feel like: "you've won 5 in a row so your MMR is up a bit and your matched with better team-mates AND enemies" it felt like: "oh you won 5 in a row? Can you carry an 0-9 botlane or an aatrox that rushes guinsoos?" I just finished a game which is proving that all those MMR/ELO, your personal skill, ranks, levels -- all this is a complete garbage. I am a support main, I was trying may best in this game (and I may say we won lane) but..... A guy from our top lane just go into 0/4/0 playing Kenen (he had 20% win rate on Kenen) and ended up the game with 2/8 Jungle was a tilt-proof guy, but he is just bad at mechanics Mid and my ADC laner was acceptable. What i want to say with all this? I want to say that I better wait 5 minutes to get a properly matched team than wait for 10 sec. and get autofilled mates from random ranks. For example this last game: My team --- Bronze 1, Silver 3, Silver 3, Silver 3 (me), Silver 4 Enemy team --- Silver 1, Silver 2, Silver 3, Gold 3 and Gold 2. Why Bronze players playing vs. Gold players? It is obvious that they will lose a whole game. According to Ranked queue limitations, "Bronze Tier: Can only queue with Iron, **Bronze and Silver** Tier players.", BUT they can play versus them. Riot just don't give a sht about their rules, and match making.
> [{quoted}](name=Paul Rei 00,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gof3MTRl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-04T21:27:30.498+0000) > > I just finished a game which is proving that all those MMR/ELO, your personal skill, ranks, levels -- all this is a complete garbage. > > I am a support main, I was trying may best in this game (and I may say we won lane) but..... > A guy from our top lane just go into 0/4/0 playing Kenen (he had 20% win rate on Kenen) and ended up the game with 2/8 > Jungle was a tilt-proof guy, but he is just bad at mechanics > Mid and my ADC laner was acceptable. > > What i want to say with all this? I want to say that I better wait 5 minutes to get a properly matched team than wait for 10 sec. and get autofilled mates from random ranks. > For example this last game: > My team --- Bronze 1, Silver 3, Silver 3, Silver 3 (me), Silver 4 > Enemy team --- Silver 1, Silver 2, Silver 3, Gold 3 and Gold 2. > > Why Bronze players playing vs. Gold players? It is obvious that they will lose a whole game. > According to Ranked queue limitations, "Bronze Tier: Can only queue with Iron, **Bronze and Silver** Tier players.", BUT they can play versus them. > > Riot just don't give a sht about their rules, and match making. I couldn't agree more, why couldn't they trade one gold for one of your silvers.....that's the part that angers me....
: Remove the stun from Qiyana's R
So much to say on this champion, she has like 5 stuns, a million dashes, she can slow, heal, go invis….fuck this champ
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=AdamrCc,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T16:56:47.685+0000) > > You don't need to be killed in order to fall behind in this meta. I don't understand where such thoughts emerge from but you can go 0/0/0 in lane and your opponent may still have a huge gold lead over you merely due to being able to free farm and take turret plating. If the enemy jungler is really camping you and you give up 0 kills, you may be a little behind, but your team is likely way ahead. It's not a single player game.
> [{quoted}](name=Subdue,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dsMEFoJW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T17:04:37.067+0000) > > If the enemy jungler is really camping you and you give up 0 kills, you may be a little behind, but your team is likely way ahead. It's not a single player game. That's assuming a lot. That happens all the time, and I look at my jg, and he has the same cs as the opposing one, yet the enemy ganks and mine does not, that really really PISSES me off and when I play top and get camped, and my jg doesn't take dragon, it really really pisses me off. If my team were dominating I wouldn't complain, but when my team just freezes while their laner roams or my jg just farms while theirs impacts the map, yeah I'm not gonna be quiet about it.
: Are all Silver supports super salty?
Well you and your support should be even in lane, so when one goes in the other can follow. It's called matching the aggression of your laner, if you don't, you are guaranteed to have a feeding bot lane.
: How much longer is ezreal going to be able to build iceborn gauntlet
Where are these op EZs coming from? The ones I get do the iceborn/tear combo and zero damage for 30 min (and that's only if i'm lucky and they don't feed).
Kai Guy (NA)
: > but ffs that should not be happening in fucking gold Ranks only have significance inside of the system. Riot sets that and can make it represent what % the wish. > And how do you know it? By reading? Sry bro I only believe in it when I see it. Learning is important for understanding. If you never learned addition, or hypothetically don't even how to read? Then you would not be able to Solve "one plus one equals?" Make the effort to learn about a topic. I get seeing is believing but any one who pretends like the seahawks did not win the superbowl 2014 because they did not watch the game is an idiot. Information is out there. You want sources for elo and MMR I can provide the links so you can see it. Your unwilling to spend time learning and ignore reality? Not my fault or issue. > 2,by the time those new players realise they aint ready they will drag so many players down with them. Do some basic math. We are talking about 1 game by 1 game so with RNG 4 teammates losing and 5 enemys gaining. More players gain then lose. Then as Next game they have different teammates and 5 new enemys gain. More people go up then down, more RNG players gain then lose. Only person sinking every single game a completely outclassed player is in... is the outclassed player. The opposite holds true for over skilled players as they climb. Not hard. Long as its not you, worst player is on the enemy team more times then your team. If its you, every game its you, every game its on your team. > True, they're not the majority. But when you pair it up with leavers, trolls, autofills...that becomes a common enough to the point where it impact your games quite a bit, and not in a positive way. How is a non majority not by definition uncommon? Also, I do have issues with Riots MM. I think mismatches are to fucking common. I don't think its a MM failure, just some of their other systems not doing a good enough job. Duoing for one, not removing toxic players quickly enough for another. > But you see, I dont need free wins from trolls I hate those games as well. Like, Losing and winning because some idiot refused to play competitively sucks. I am just relaying information, stating how things are to the very best of my knowledge after looking into the topic and learning. That does not mean I embrace or endorse it. How it breaks down is pretty simple. If its not you, the weakest or the guy who wants to lose is on the enemy team more games then your team. that's just what happens because your a slot on your team 100% of games and it leaves 4/9 remaining slots to go to your team and 5/9 slots to be on the enemy side. All I am saying, this is how it is. > If I wanted to play games based in randomness, guess what? I would go and gamble on csgo, at least there I have a chance of getting something with a high RL value. If you don't control your teammates there will be randomness. Shit, even if its a sports team there is some fucking randomness. Humans are god dam inconsistent. A top tier QB can have off games. How it goes. Go play solo player PvE games with no RNG if its an issue for your game aesthetics. > In that case it's no suprise that no1 is taking ranked seriously xD Life in general is unfair. You wanna win then you play for wins. If the "underdog" could never win then nobody would give a shit about competition. Again, The idiots who hard lose games end up on the other team more often then your side. Take it seriously and you have a house advantage. Don't? You deserve every loss you coulda won but fucked around instead of winning. > That's true. But that doesnt mean ranked should be left in this state where you need to hope that each game the enemy team will be fucked over by all kinds of bs more times than you so you can climb. They will if its not you being the problem. LLN works. My attitude is remove the shit that makes games BS. Assholes who want losses. Restrict # of accounts. Make duoing less of a huge % range of population. Improve gameplay and behavior systems to target and fix the things MM can not reliably impact. I want a better game, I play it. Improvements only help me have more fun. Ignoring reality is dumb so I refuse to do it. Gameplay in PVP is Player generated. Make shure players generate good gameplay form behavior. Riot can improve on things. That's how it goes. Those improvements might be really unpopular, but fk it quality first right? There will be ruined games. Take steps to lower and reduces that for quality is what I want.
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=00030000000000000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-06T09:40:37.111+0000) > > Ranks only have significance inside of the system. Riot sets that and can make it represent what % the wish. > > Learning is important for understanding. If you never learned addition, or hypothetically don't even how to read? Then you would not be able to Solve "one plus one equals?" Make the effort to learn about a topic. I get seeing is believing but any one who pretends like the seahawks did not win the superbowl 2014 because they did not watch the game is an idiot. Information is out there. You want sources for elo and MMR I can provide the links so you can see it. Your unwilling to spend time learning and ignore reality? Not my fault or issue. > > Do some basic math. We are talking about 1 game by 1 game so with RNG 4 teammates losing and 5 enemys gaining. More players gain then lose. Then as Next game they have different teammates and 5 new enemys gain. More people go up then down, more RNG players gain then lose. Only person sinking every single game a completely outclassed player is in... is the outclassed player. The opposite holds true for over skilled players as they climb. > > Not hard. Long as its not you, worst player is on the enemy team more times then your team. If its you, every game its you, every game its on your team. > > How is a non majority not by definition uncommon? > > Also, I do have issues with Riots MM. I think mismatches are to fucking common. I don't think its a MM failure, just some of their other systems not doing a good enough job. Duoing for one, not removing toxic players quickly enough for another. > I hate those games as well. Like, Losing and winning because some idiot refused to play competitively sucks. I am just relaying information, stating how things are to the very best of my knowledge after looking into the topic and learning. That does not mean I embrace or endorse it. How it breaks down is pretty simple. If its not you, the weakest or the guy who wants to lose is on the enemy team more games then your team. that's just what happens because your a slot on your team 100% of games and it leaves 4/9 remaining slots to go to your team and 5/9 slots to be on the enemy side. All I am saying, this is how it is. > > If you don't control your teammates there will be randomness. Shit, even if its a sports team there is some fucking randomness. Humans are god dam inconsistent. A top tier QB can have off games. How it goes. Go play solo player PvE games with no RNG if its an issue for your game aesthetics. > Life in general is unfair. You wanna win then you play for wins. If the "underdog" could never win then nobody would give a shit about competition. Again, The idiots who hard lose games end up on the other team more often then your side. Take it seriously and you have a house advantage. Don't? You deserve every loss you coulda won but fucked around instead of winning. > > They will if its not you being the problem. LLN works. My attitude is remove the shit that makes games BS. Assholes who want losses. Restrict # of accounts. Make duoing less of a huge % range of population. Improve gameplay and behavior systems to target and fix the things MM can not reliably impact. > > I want a better game, I play it. Improvements only help me have more fun. Ignoring reality is dumb so I refuse to do it. > > Gameplay in PVP is Player generated. Make shure players generate good gameplay form behavior. > > Riot can improve on things. That's how it goes. Those improvements might be really unpopular, but fk it quality first right? > > There will be ruined games. Take steps to lower and reduces that for quality is what I want. These don't really work. Way too many streaks in this game for me to buy into it's RNG and 50% of the time blah blah blah. And why does matchmaking put 4 golds on one team and 4 silvers on another....they should even those out, but most of the time it's like that.
Saezio (EUNE)
: So, new players need to be placed at 50% of the MMR ladder. Why? Because if they are placed somewhere else, given enough time THAT PLACE WILL BECOME THE MIDDLE OF THE MMR LADDER. It's math. If you want players to be placed lower, we need an entire new matchmaking system and a new "skill value assigning" system. Sorry English is not my main role ;)
> [{quoted}](name=Saezio,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T3EXvMfE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-11-02T05:18:19.898+0000) > > So, new players need to be placed at 50% of the MMR ladder. Why? Because if they are placed somewhere else, given enough time THAT PLACE WILL BECOME THE MIDDLE OF THE MMR LADDER. It's math. > If you want players to be placed lower, we need an entire new matchmaking system and a new "skill value assigning" system. > > Sorry English is not my main role ;) yes please, new players should start at the bottom
: I think afkers should lose triple the amount of LP. that way they have to work harder for them to climb up. well what I really think is that afkers should be perm ban from playing rank.
> [{quoted}](name=citlalli5755,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tLLVFIYF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-03T21:38:36.215+0000) > > I think afkers should lose triple the amount of LP. that way they have to work harder for them to climb up. well what I really think is that afkers should be perm ban from playing rank. Actually this is a good idea. I doesn't change the game for no afkers, but hammers the afker…...which is what we want, BRAVO! I don't agree with the perma ban, but this will make sure you check your internet and stop playing on laptops.....
: Think Riot is busy focusing on the **real **problem. Bad language.
> [{quoted}](name=Subject 5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XAVun5s3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-09-04T21:50:45.827+0000) > > Think Riot is busy focusing on the **real **problem. > > Bad language. now this is hilarious. I don't have an issue with smurfing, but they need to stop putting noobs in silver games. That will help out a lot.
Baval (NA)
: because ashe was the problem. how often were you helping your team and how often were you running away from irelia because "lol you guys fed her she will kill me if i help you" see your kind all the time, you heard playing safe was smart so now you dont know when to take risks or even *gasp* sacrifice yourself so the team can get ahead, you just think as long as youre personally not negative KDA your team must be doing something wrong. Playing smart isnt always about staying alive, its about doing whatevers best to get the *team as a whole* in an advantageous position.
> [{quoted}](name=Baval,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ghI3lUy2,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-11-06T10:18:36.646+0000) > > because ashe was the problem. > > how often were you helping your team and how often were you running away from irelia because "lol you guys fed her she will kill me if i help you" > > see your kind all the time, you heard playing safe was smart so now you dont know when to take risks or even *gasp* sacrifice yourself so the team can get ahead, you just think as long as youre personally not negative KDA your team must be doing something wrong. > > Playing smart isnt always about staying alive, its about doing whatevers best to get the *team as a whole* in an advantageous position. True, but the problem is these people feed hard VERY EARLY in the game. I play a lot of diana, many times pre 6 my bot lane feeds like 6 kills, so pre 6 what do you want me to do, go bot, lose cs (as a smart mid would push to my turret deny me cs and get plates), and stare at them? Also people that suck don't know how to skirmish so you end up dying anyway. I don't know how man times I roam bot and my bot BACKS off???? WHY????? They need to engage.....it's common sense....how do you talk to people so dumb? And of course my favorite is the late roam. people who see their laner went top so instead of taking the tower they follow and then do nothing as top is dead by the time they arrive....
YvesbA (EUW)
: Uhm.. Riot?????
yeah I usually get teams that are like Silver 2 and 3, while the other team gets gold 3s and 4s.....I do well in my lane, but rarely have another lane win, it's makes it very difficult. I feel your pain.
Tayzzer (NA)
: How did this get upvotes? is the community really this dumb? are you really trying to tell me faker wouldnt be able to climb outta silver if he was put there? I wonder why no one in gold and above has this attitude? oh yeah because you need to acknowledge your fault to get better and climb
> [{quoted}](name=Tayzzer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=u4a0hqPF,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-11-06T17:57:47.853+0000) > > How did this get upvotes? is the community really this dumb? are you really trying to tell me faker wouldnt be able to climb outta silver if he was put there? I wonder why no one in gold and above has this attitude? oh yeah because you need to acknowledge your fault to get better and climb That's horseshit. Faker is a challenger player and a pro, not the same as a gold level player struggling in silver. Also if you inted 13 kills to a botlane, it would BE difficult for Faker to carry. I agree with the OP, I was just playing some normal and 3 games in a row, my teams were way outclassed...….the problem is the game is decided by the worst player, not the best one, that's why it's hard to carry
: I would not expect that grace period to happen again this season. Knowing what would happen if someone is below Honor 2 is not a secret, and personally, I don't think would be fair to everyone who maintained their Honor if they do this more than once. It's **supposed** to feel bad to miss out the rewards, because it's a punishment.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-10-23T10:30:52.392+0000) > > I would not expect that grace period to happen again this season. Knowing what would happen if someone is below Honor 2 is not a secret, and personally, I don't think would be fair to everyone who maintained their Honor if they do this more than once. > > It's **supposed** to feel bad to miss out the rewards, because it's a punishment. Then punish people that deserve it......not people that type in chat. typing in chat doesn't lose LP, feeding and first timing champs in ranked does. If you want less toxicity, then punish trolls ALOT harder.
: Again, not my rules. Anyone can ban any champion they want in champ select. You are entitled to **nothing**. Him being a jerk does not excuse you being a jerk.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=0000000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-10-24T14:57:50.325+0000) > > Again, not my rules. > > Anyone can ban any champion they want in champ select. You are entitled to **nothing**. Him being a jerk does not excuse you being a jerk. Sure it does, the golden rule. He treated me like shit, so I complied and did the same. I'm *entitled* to people wanting to play a game fairly and trying to win games and not trolling...….
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=00000000000000010000000100010000,timestamp=2019-10-24T17:33:57.287+0000) > > No they aren't, they are words. Saying i'm going to feed is not the same as running it down mid. Saying someone sucks on a team is not the same as refusing to group and guaranteeing a loss. > What is with people today, they think words are actions.....not even close. In general you are right - for verbal communication. Prior to even typing word in LoL, you have to take an action - thereby triggering the chat window to open. Everything after that likewise counts as an action. Turn it the other way, the act of speaking (since it is a verb) is clearly understood to be an action, the words used during the verbal exchange are sort of moot to its being an act of speech. Now back to the chat window, by triggering the window and typing into it, you have taken an action (deliberately). It was a choice to act - whether the words that issue forth are positive or negative is irrelevant to the concept of speech as an action. In simplest terms, you were punished for taking the action of flaming another player. Judging the relative severity of those actions is a different matter, but flaming someone *is* an action. Honestly, I'd rather have a guy run down mid all game than listen to some of the garbage spewed out in chat. It can be amusing watching the reaction to inters, but listening to toxic stew can be demoralizing.
> [{quoted}](name=Vaelkyrie,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=000000000000000100000001000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T22:44:33.205+0000) > > In general you are right - for verbal communication. Prior to even typing word in LoL, you have to take an action - thereby triggering the chat window to open. Everything after that likewise counts as an action. Turn it the other way, the act of speaking (since it is a verb) is clearly understood to be an action, the words used during the verbal exchange are sort of moot to its being an act of speech. Now back to the chat window, by triggering the window and typing into it, you have taken an action (deliberately). It was a choice to act - whether the words that issue forth are positive or negative is irrelevant to the concept of speech as an action. > > In simplest terms, you were punished for taking the action of flaming another player. Judging the relative severity of those actions is a different matter, but flaming someone *is* an action. > > Honestly, I'd rather have a guy run down mid all game than listen to some of the garbage spewed out in chat. It can be amusing watching the reaction to inters, but listening to toxic stew can be demoralizing. see that's where we differ. you can mute the toxic player, you can't mute someone from running down mid. I think the issue, is to me winning is the most important thing, it seems like you're the "have fun" player and don't care about winning. And clicking on play is an action, it doesn't justify getting trolled. When you troll, you deserver getting flamed or trolled back. If you trolled people, I have no sympathy for you if they retaliate, you cant just bully people and expect them to take it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=00000000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-10-24T17:09:40.245+0000) > > No him being a jerk, entitles me to treat him like shit.....if you troll me, I will troll harder, end of story. Fix the trolls and this wont happen Riot doesn't have to follow your rules of entitlement, end of story. You performing some form of useless vigilante justice based on perceived slights doesn't exempt you from the rules.
> [{quoted}](name=AeroWaffle,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=000000000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-25T13:02:10.499+0000) > > Riot doesn't have to follow your rules of entitlement, end of story. You performing some form of useless vigilante justice based on perceived slights doesn't exempt you from the rules. Has nothing to do with entitlement. My tilt type is Paladin, look it up. I don't take shit from people...maybe you do.....
Lyfeena (NA)
: I play only 3 characters hard to afford 70 XD. Working on my cs but sometimes it really pisses me of.
> [{quoted}](name=Lyfeena,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=oBUZAEuR,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-10-26T03:29:22.156+0000) > > I play only 3 characters hard to afford 70 XD. Working on my cs but sometimes it really pisses me of. Well that's good, keep working on that, CS is the most important thing. Because it's reliable. Kills are unreliable because you may be the better player, you may not, but CS is always the same.
: @Meddler As someone who enjoys playing Soraka, can you stop making Grievous Wounds abundant?
I would kill for an adc to know mortal reminder exists. I get it on my champs but they don't and then complain....
Lyfeena (NA)
: Being a Noob
To play ranked, have 3 champs you play and NO MORE...don't be one of those guys with 70 champs played in solo Q where none was played more than 9 times.... So pick 3 champs and play the crap out of them. Learn to CS well and then know how to play against your opponents, which spell do you really need to dodge....for illaoi it's her pull...if you avoid that, go ham, if not back off and just cs.
WøOxer (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=True Ðamage,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8vPEVLgw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-24T11:08:08.528+0000) > > thats a good thing, junglers shouldnt be rewarded with ignoring everything and afk farming for 30 mins. > nobody should. So then afk farming laners also should be punished like getting less XP as well...
> [{quoted}](name=WøOxer,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=8vPEVLgw,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-01-24T14:43:35.771+0000) > > So then afk farming laners also should be punished like getting less XP as well... They generally do
: > [{quoted}](name=FioraWillCarry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYRHGRqT,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-09T15:53:15.483+0000) > > Why even bother farming the jungle. Even with 2 full clears uninterrupted you'll still barely be the same level as the support with only slightly more gold. Might as well just gank non-stop or do "supporty" things. The jungle is shit this season compared to previous seasons. and how exactly do you gank and camp lanes as yi?
> [{quoted}](name=SlashStriker,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYRHGRqT,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-09T16:07:01.823+0000) > > and how exactly do you gank and camp lanes as yi? Figure it out or don't play him. I gank at level 3 all the time on yi, usually can get a flash or first blood. you just don't lead with q, walk behind the enemy, with a good angle and while they walk towards their tower you close and they will panick, and if your toplaner has CC, then it's a kill.
: Do junglers have too much impact?
No, I would love to have level 2 ganks nerfed into the ground, I really really hate those. But basically jg is like other lanes, the more aggressive player usually wins and as jungle if you are an afk farmer, chances are you lose before you can contribute much.
: Ok. Do you have proof for this premise?
No he's right, I'm a mid main. The reason is support controls bot lane, in terms of engages, shielding and basically the better support wins. And generally tank >>>> squishy (with a few exceptions like Brand or a good xerath). If your support is bad, your bot lane feeds hard and you lose (as a midlane I've won lane but had zero chance of winning because of this scenario), if they are good, then your bot doesn't feed and then the ADC/mid or someone else can carry
StonMon (NA)
: Good toplaners to blind pick?
you can pick darius, if they pick a range, just rush swifties…...and wreck them. you can also go Vlad/Panth
Jun Long (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FATzIEuM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-22T20:24:53.444+0000) > > Sounds like you're a bad jungler and don't fully understand morde Maybe that is the case. But this assumption doesn't help me really, other than not understanding morde's kit
Well understanding him is kind of important. If you don't get him, he will get you. I just played noc top vs a morde and demolished him hard to the point he rushed tabbi and a deadmans….it was hilarious.
: He has no counter play as an assassin
sure he does, I win versus malphites all the time.
: Kaleidostone and the general state of Inspiration
I couldn't agree more, I never use this tree.
: > [{quoted}](name=Buckeye2002,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NAWF3c6T,comment-id=000000000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-10-24T13:20:14.105+0000) > > That is bullshit, I got a chat ban and dropped me to lvl 1, for flaming a guy who banned my pick in champ select. He said I shouldn't show my pick and banned it, he was trolling and I get hit with the ban because I told him what I think of him....total bullshit, actions not words should be punished. Except in a game like this, words *are* actions. You have to make a deliberate choice to type, and then to hit the enter key. Each word you type is the result of actions on a keyboard.
No they aren't, they are words. Saying i'm going to feed is not the same as running it down mid. Saying someone sucks on a team is not the same as refusing to group and guaranteeing a loss. What is with people today, they think words are actions.....not even close.
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Buckeye2002

Level 248 (NA)
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