: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=00040000000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T15:06:04.769+0000) > > I've talked about this already and Riot hasn't taken a position. > > Basically, it's a catch22. If Teemo leaves immediately as soon as Irelia pings him to leave it hurts the team significantly more. Therefore, as Teemo if you leave you're reducing the chances of your team winning vs maybe tilting your mid laner by staying. > > So either way you'll find "meta slaves" complaining that Teemo is either not trying his best to win or not communicating properly with the team. > > Additionally, you're "forcing your playstyle" upon the Teemo by pinging him after he stealths in a lane and trying to force him to leave. It's like spam pinging in the middle of a gank instead of trying to assist your jungler/teammates. Teemo's presence in lane stays longer but the concept is the same. Ever heard of roaming?... BTW mid-laner said to leave in chat. I don't care about this anymore, what's done is done, we'll see what RIOT does in the future about this.
> [{quoted}](name=NotDTOPuRLkn4,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000400000003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-29T02:17:14.857+0000) > > Ever heard of roaming?... > BTW mid-laner said to leave in chat. So? Mid laner and support have their own strategic ideas. That's a strategic disagreement which is supposed to be okay. Why is the support treated like a slave? The expectation is ridiculous. They must leave or go where ever their teammates tell them or else banned? What if Teemo leaves mid and goes top and top is like "LEAVE" then bot lane does the same? > I don't care about this anymore, what's done is done, we'll see what RIOT does in the future about this. They'll be wildly inconsistent, punish off-meta players more severely even while claiming to do the opposite & probably let the trolls do whatever they want unless they have an insider Riot friend in the game OR get seriously called out.
Vreivai (NA)
: Yeah, I was being kind of tongue-in-cheek there to highlight the difference in enforcement depending upon who has a problem with you, and how WookieeCookie very strongly implied that certain things are only breaking the rules if you do it to a streamer. With the way Riot (and tech companies in general) enforce their rules, I wouldn't risk playing off-meta at all.
> [{quoted}](name=Vreivai,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=FHX7EVTi,comment-id=0002000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-17T06:24:37.156+0000) > > With the way Riot (and tech companies in general) enforce their rules, I wouldn't risk playing off-meta at all. They should stop/take down videos like this then: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VMAAfm095tg
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00040000000000010000000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T22:58:38.401+0000) > > Because getting first blood on the TF & zoning him off CS more than the bot lane lost isn't enough. "Sure thing chief" So...helping a lane that would ALREADY WIN, and letting your 50% chance to win bot lane lose...is good? Interesting... > > The enemy team doesn't know he is mid until he leaves stealth to hit TF. Did you not watch it? He does this quite often, he sits invis until 1:30, so the first minion wave.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=000400000000000100000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-26T00:00:11.149+0000) > > So...helping a lane that would ALREADY WIN, and letting your 50% chance to win bot lane lose...is good? Interesting... That's a hypothetical outcome. You don't know this lane WILL win. Also, there's different levels of winning. It's more just about who wins out on trading resources. And this game is just one data point: At 5:17 the point where NB3 hits tab and saying: "nubrac say bye bye to ur accoutn" This is the game state: Irelia has first blood and is up 37 - 23 on cs. Sivir has 25 cs on pair with Taric who also has 25. Teemo has 6 cs; Sona has 7. The blue team is actually up in EXP. Pretty good result for team Nubrac. > > Did you not watch it? He does this quite often, he sits invis until 1:30, so the first minion wave. While he is invisible at the start of the match you don't know where he is. He could be mid,top,bot or somewhere in the enemy jungle. This also has the benefit of forcing all the enemies to respect the possibility that he could be hiding in their lane/space until he shows.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=000400000000000100000001,timestamp=2019-06-25T05:02:14.107+0000) > > It's not what you would typically consider roaming. So whenever I talk about it I call it "roaming" Teemo support when I do use that word. He's not sitting mid to just soak EXP he is attempting to gain an advantage mid lane because he felt it would be most advantageous for the team. > > It's not going to go well if he leaves the moment Irelia starts pinging him because he will not be stealth and that hurts the entire team's early game because the enemy team would know where Teemo has started. > > It's more "support the best lane for the team" than "roaming". Very much like a jungler gank but higher and longer commitment. lol, sitting mid soaking exp, that Irelia needs for her snowball, is helping the team. Sure thing chief. The enemy team already knew he was mid XD that's why TF was "zoned". He was playing back safe while his bot lane farmed up.
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=0004000000000001000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:33:51.874+0000) > > lol, sitting mid soaking exp, that Irelia needs for her snowball, is helping the team. Sure thing chief. Because getting first blood on the TF & zoning him off CS more than the bot lane lost isn't enough. "Sure thing chief" > > The enemy team already knew he was mid XD that's why TF was "zoned". He was playing back safe while his bot lane farmed up. The enemy team doesn't know he is mid until he leaves stealth to hit TF.
: Uhh, NB3 himself got a ban too "play TO WIN the game, not PLAY TO INT in game" did Teemo Nubrac int or lose? No. Was NB3 toxic to him? Yes. Get your facts straight. Ignoring all your posts, have fun.
> [{quoted}](name=Duelist Sagiri,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=PkVAmmOI,comment-id=000c00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T18:32:54.314+0000) > > Uhh, NB3 himself got a ban too "play TO WIN the game, not PLAY TO INT in game" did Teemo Nubrac int or lose? No. Was NB3 toxic to him? Yes. Get your facts straight. Ignoring all your posts, have fun. Uh what? NB3 is banned because of the community outrage so Riot decided to appease the masses. Nubrac is still banned with no explanation given beyond that one bs Reddit post by WookieCookie. Off-meta is completely play at your own risk. Nubrac's penalty is a perfect example.
: "treat others how you wish to be treated in return" imagine if someone in real life followed you with a recorded infinite loop that says the word "shit" or something else that would quickly become annoying...now imagine that they did this at any point that they could how do you get them to stop if their goal is to annoy you? in addition to that, blaming the victim is never healthy for the victim or the community. Being a paragon of virtue is the ideal, but few people have the experience to maintain it
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-06-25T05:13:52.121+0000) > > "treat others how you wish to be treated in return" > > imagine if someone in real life followed you with a recorded infinite loop that says the word "shit" or something else that would quickly become annoying...now imagine that they did this at any point that they could > When you can press a single button or type a single line to silence them its not really the end of the world. When you get to be "important" or have a bit of money you're going to have to deal with something similar to this anyway. Filtering out and/or ignoring toxic people(or people that have a "great" investment for you) is something you'll have to do IRL too. > how do you get them to stop if their goal is to annoy you? By not being annoyed? > > in addition to that, blaming the victim is never healthy for the victim or the community. Being a paragon of virtue is the ideal, but few people have the experience to maintain it Why does there have to be a victim? Who even is the victim?
Haze97 (EUW)
: People lose their thinking because they have no choice and are now held hostage in a game which will go on for over 20 mins. Why do you think people get frustrated over a 'game'then? If people could move on from obvious this as easily as you mentioned they would, but now they need to sit down and play a game and slowly watch their team fall apart because troll is going to hit "no"on the surrender making the first vote non-unanimous, and you're the one who is going to have no choice but to dance to his tunes. Whoever says Riot doesn't cater to trolls is fucked in the head. Ignoring a problem is a problem in itself.
> [{quoted}](name=Haze97,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-06-25T03:56:40.969+0000) > > People lose their thinking because they have no choice and are now held hostage in a game which will go on for over 20 mins. > Stop thinking and just play...it's okay. > Why do you think people get frustrated over a 'game'then? If people could move on from obvious this as easily as you mentioned they would, but now they need to sit down and play a game and slowly watch their team fall apart because troll is going to hit "no"on the surrender making the first vote non-unanimous, and you're the one who is going to have no choice but to dance to his tunes. > Why give up? I've won countless games where there was at least one ally essentially running it down. I remember winning one game where we had 2 afk's and a third guy running it down and we were still able to win as just an adc / support. The third guy running it down typed in the chat multiple games "how can you guys not end in a 2v5?". He did tank some cool downs but yeah. Most players on league are going to win about half their games and lose about half their games. I find the most fulfilling games to win are when the odds are against you. > Whoever says Riot doesn't cater to trolls is fucked in the head. Ignoring a problem is a problem in itself. I never said they didn't cater to trolls but you can control how you choose to react to trolls.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-25T02:22:53.973+0000) > > I'm sure he assisted the lane he thought was best for the team in these games. What reason to think otherwise is there? > > People want to differentiate certain games into certain categories to ignore the fact that he has 50%ish winrate at Master Tier MMR with Teemo queued as support where he often deviates from the normal standard of playing support in the bot lane. Read my comment again, where he **SITS MID FOR 15 MINUTES** He didn't roam, he just went mid to soak EXP even though Irelia told him to leave
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00040000000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T03:11:57.248+0000) > > Read my comment again, where he **SITS MID FOR 15 MINUTES** He didn't roam, he just went mid to soak EXP even though Irelia told him to leave It's not what you would typically consider roaming. So whenever I talk about it I call it "roaming" Teemo support when I do use that word. He's not sitting mid to just soak EXP he is attempting to gain an advantage mid lane because he felt it would be most advantageous for the team. It's not going to go well if he leaves the moment Irelia starts pinging him because he will not be stealth and that hurts the entire team's early game because the enemy team would know where Teemo has started. It's more "support the best lane for the team" than "roaming". Very much like a jungler gank but higher and longer commitment.
KingMufu (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:36:41.947+0000) > > Hard int'ing is okay unless you submit a manual ticket, they do it over many games & a Rioter decides to take action(very rare). > > Saying any of a lot of different words or abbreviations is like the end of the world and IFS will get you. > > You should either quit playing or change your mindset. So someone trolls a normal/ranked game. It's not something you can control. Just report and move on. When you're playing a game with 9 other people there's going to be a lot of circumstances outside your control. Accept it and move on. I'm on the same page with you , yes i don't understand why do you need to destroy all of your thinking just because of a player like this , still , it happened to me to lose all of my patience and flip out. Anyways not everybody has nerves of steel , there are people who actually break it at a significant point because of other ones , now im not saying that all of the flamers have a reason , yes there are some jerks and assholes who are unbearable but those you can easly mute , you can't really do anything to a 0-9 olaf who leaves the lane and farms your jg just because you didn't ganked him in 10 mins . What i am sayin is that nobody takes action in situations like this , and if they do , there will be like 1 from 100k.
> [{quoted}](name=KingMufu,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-06-25T01:14:07.147+0000) > > I'm on the same page with you , yes i don't understand why do you need to destroy all of your thinking just because of a player like this , still , it happened to me to lose all of my patience and flip out. Anyways not everybody has nerves of steel Because you think it takes "patience" and "nerves of steel". It doesn't. It only takes acceptance of the situation. Then you have a a simple decision. You can either flame and probably eventually(sooner rather than later) get chat restrictions or you can play your game. Which helps you more?
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:39:29.354+0000) > > Pretty sure Nubrac had 50% winrate over his last 31 games 15W-15L with one remake in Master Tier MMR with "roaming" Teemo support. > > This Kayle would have a sub 20% winrate in normals if they played all their games like this. Don't try to act like they're the same. Are you sure that winrate is all from roaming Teemo support where he sits mid for 15 minutes?
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T01:30:18.175+0000) > > Are you sure that winrate is all from roaming Teemo support where he sits mid for 15 minutes? I'm sure he assisted the lane he thought was best for the team in these games. What reason to think otherwise is there? People want to differentiate certain games into certain categories to ignore the fact that he has 50%ish winrate at Master Tier MMR with Teemo queued as support where he often deviates from the normal standard of playing support in the bot lane.
: Why did I get chat restricted?
> [{quoted}](name=March 15 2019,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Icj8Epfx,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:42:59.312+0000) > > 1 game, was at honor level 2, level 2. Now I'm honor level 1 because people in my game said "better jg wins" and **I can't let that slide. **Please tell me how I could have handled this situation differently. Bolded attitude is the issue on how to handle things differently. Stop reading the chat and just play your game. Riot has made it so anything that can be construed negatively(which is basically everything) is toxic...so just don't chat.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:24:16.849+0000) > > It's essentially the same as a chat restriction without the chat restriction. Seems uh pointless to me...I'd rather have consequences to actions as opposed to even more warnings. > If the player gets 3 warnings then penalty will be applied. Technically you have 3 chances to act up before you get hit with the penalty. That means you have the chance to appeal if your reports were a misunderstanding. Receiving 3 warnings pretty much seals the deal if the player didn't bother to change their act. It makes their appeals harder to be uplifted. > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:24:16.849+0000) > You don't need the chat to "communicate" in league. Just use pings. That's not the point of this thread, but to answer your statement players do ignore pings. That's nothing new to the gaming industry.
> [{quoted}](name=Brutalistica,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:34:57.614+0000) > > If the player gets 3 warnings then penalty will be applied. Technically you have 3 chances to act up before you get hit with the penalty. That means you have the chance to appeal if your reports were a misunderstanding. Receiving 3 warnings pretty much seals the deal if the player didn't bother to change their act. It makes their appeals harder to be uplifted. Yeah, I get how it would work. I don't think Riot would ever implement it. Also, the level and severity of the cases is how IFS works currently. You could get banned for somewhat toxic chatter over many games or as little as one when you're really toxic...or lots of cases in between. I think it makes a lot of sense in the way they want to police the chat. > > That's not the point of this thread, What is? Give players more opportunities to be toxic without punishment? I'm fine with it because I like trash talk & banter. But, this is not what Riot wants to do or implement. > but to answer your statement players do ignore pings. That's nothing new to the gaming industry. Players ignore toxic chat too... Someone ignores pings? You just stop pinging them. If a couple smart pings aren't going to do the trick, then you're not likely to make a positive impact with your chatter either.
: 2 week suspension ( I got trolled in ranked )
How were you trolled? Someone else's behavior is no excuse for your own. What if they weren't actually trolling or INT'ing? You're making their experience even worse especially if they're having a bad game. But yeah, /mute all & focusing on your own game play is a good idea.
: So when does Riot ban him? He's doing exactly what Nubrac did, going to other lanes when the laner didn't want them there
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=bGYE6AwP,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:22:56.459+0000) > > So when does Riot ban him? He's doing exactly what Nubrac did, going to other lanes when the laner didn't want them there Pretty sure Nubrac had 50% winrate over his last 31 games 15W-15L with one remake in Master Tier MMR with "roaming" Teemo support. This Kayle would have a sub 20% winrate in normals if they played all their games like this. Don't try to act like they're the same.
KingMufu (EUNE)
: Trollers
Hard int'ing is okay unless you submit a manual ticket, they do it over many games & a Rioter decides to take action(very rare). Saying any of a lot of different words or abbreviations is like the end of the world and IFS will get you. You should either quit playing or change your mindset. So someone trolls a normal/ranked game. It's not something you can control. Just report and move on. When you're playing a game with 9 other people there's going to be a lot of circumstances outside your control. Accept it and move on.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-24T21:31:32.282+0000) > > This is way too many warnings and would encourage more toxic chatter. I wouldn't mind this at all because I happen to like trash talk and banter. I think it makes the game more entertaining. 3 warnings isn't a lot and they stay on your record. Once those warnings are used up there's not much you can do to persuade them in a appeal. Those players are able to read their chat logs during those 3 warnings and if there's no improvement. The penalty will be applied on the account. Think of it this way like if you're able to ignore 3 warnings then player doesn't care about the game and would waste time making new accounts. The only way to get those 3 warnings chances back is not being toxic at all for sometime. This concept is actually Blizzard old method during WoW's early days up until at least Cataclysm or MoP. It got oppressive after that like take Overwatch for an example. Playing a hero of F tier grants you auto silence or a ban. At least Riot is willingly to listen to feedback and not hit you hard with heavy penalty where you can't communicate at all to allies.
> [{quoted}](name=Brutalistica,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-06-24T22:16:07.554+0000) > > 3 warnings isn't a lot and they stay on your record. Once those warnings are used up there's not much you can do to persuade them in a appeal. Those players are able to read their chat logs during those 3 warnings and if there's no improvement. The penalty will be applied on the account. Think of it this way like if you're able to ignore 3 warnings then player doesn't care about the game and would waste time making new accounts. > It's essentially the same as a chat restriction without the chat restriction. Seems uh pointless to me...I'd rather have consequences to actions as opposed to even more warnings. > The only way to get those 3 warnings chances back is not being toxic at all for sometime. This concept is actually Blizzard old method during WoW's early days up until at least Cataclysm or MoP. It got oppressive after that like take Overwatch for an example. Playing a hero of F tier grants you auto silence or a ban. At least Riot is willingly to listen to feedback and not hit you hard with heavy penalty where you can't communicate at all to allies. You don't need the chat to "communicate" in league. Just use pings.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shotamuscle,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Gb7eq6hE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-24T01:54:40.858+0000) > > Lol the fucking boards are moderated more than the game. 0/10 well done Riot To be fair the boards have volunteers, but yeah they do more work than Riot does on the game lmfao
> [{quoted}](name=General Esdeath ,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=Gb7eq6hE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-24T02:22:12.747+0000) > > To be fair the boards have volunteers, but yeah they do more work than Riot does on the game lmfao Why can't we have volunteers work on the manual reports system in a tribunal fashion? That'd be helpful IMO
IcyMelon (EUW)
: How hard it is for new players to start.
There's a pretty big learning curve honestly. Just play bot games till you can beat the intermediate bots easily without abusing stuff like brush tactics/vision. If you're soft to the point where you're going to get demoralized because people talk crap about you in a video game you're probably not going to want to play video games in a multi-player setting.
: Chatbox Restriction Tuning in a Positive Light.
> [{quoted}](name=Brutalistica,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=uvAW7ElE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-24T20:36:58.765+0000) > > However the one thing Chatbox Restriction does wrong is placing a penalty on players the first time and not giving any sort of warning. If you're typing more lines than chatbox restriction would allow you to then you are typing too much in games. You will see future penalties more likely than not...consider that your warning. > If this suppose to help out the community by keeping it toxic clean. Do them justice by letting them know what they have been reported for without applying a penalty. That way if they continue to do the same tactics 2 more times then the chatbox restriction will be applied. That way they can see they were warned 3 times and that will take effect on the player. This way it will have better positive results than the current system claiming penalties are warnings. This is way too many warnings and would encourage more toxic chatter. I wouldn't mind this at all because I happen to like trash talk and banter. I think it makes the game more entertaining. It's getting progressively worse each season and pretty soon you won't be able to type anything much at all without even being considered "toxic". Players are little babies...and Riot caters to them. > I know players want toxic players to be punished asap, but the only way that should apply is if they truly used racial slurs and anything a long those lines where it's close to threats. That sort of toxic level should be only allowed 1 warning and a penalty is applied at the second stage if get hit by reports for the second time. Yes, I'd be all for a more escalated punishment for slurs or threats. And significantly less punishment or none at all for trash talk and banter. But, I'm probably in the minority here.
Zephyrdor (EUNE)
: The indefinite banning of Tarzaned
Win trading by the #1 player on a server for 3 of the last 4 seasons impacts the integrity of the entire ladder(since everyone is under him). Unless you think cheating should be allowed/encouraged in every ranked game whenever you want you should want him banned too.
Mártir (EUW)
: The importance of both Champ Select, and Macro game/Decision Making... More than "Skill/Mechanics"
> [{quoted}](name=Mártir,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=1mIqKyFm,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-23T23:42:29.932+0000) > > I swear, I could bet anything, that a higher "%" of games... > Are lost because of both Champ Select and Macro game/Decision Making, rather than just "Skill/Mechanics", people forget the importance of the first two things? > > **Champ Select:** Lately I've began to Dodge "unfavorable" Champ Selects, and I climbed some divisions because of this. > > * So your team is made of FIVE APs (ADC being Corki, Kaisa, Ezreal, or so), and you'd wonder why you'd lose? > When all the enemies have Hexdrinker, Spirit Visage, and Mercury Boots? This team doesn't necessarily lose especially if someone catches majority of the enemy team in mutiple AP AOE ulties. Go ahead and build your Hexdrinker as an ad you still can't walk anywhere near a Fiddle,Kennen,Karthus,Brand. > * Your team lacks a Frontline (Enchanter Support, Teemo/Kennen Top, Twitch/Evelyn Jungle), and you'd be surprised by the enemy team totally diving you under turret with hard CC, and still winning? Team doesn't team fight as well as a "normal" team but that's only one aspect of the game. > > **Macro game/Decision Making)** My god, I dont wanna talk about this one, I want to cry... xD > pretty obvious things: > > * Making Baron, when enemy has full vision of it, is near and has hard CC engage, or even behind in numbers or gold. No comments. Behind on gold is one of the best times to do a baron. If you're losing you want to increase the variability of the game. One of the best things you can do if the enemy team takes an inhib is to try and rush a baron on their recalls. Because once supers pile in you will have a hard time defending your base from supers and the enemy team from baron. > * Pushing lanes which have the enemy inhibitor broken. Omg this is the worst... xD Or the right champion does it uncontested it ends the game. It's often very good to split push opposite the lane of the main objective. > So enemy would have Mid and Bot Inhibs down, and you wouldnt close the game by pushing Top? > Only reason you'd go Mid/Bot if several enemy champions were dead, or you have Baron Buff, for an easy push. > * Not taking objectives somewhere else, while the Toplaner with Teleport is pushing hard. > You are killing him, because you are not drawing attention somewhere else, so 3 people will just go kill the Nasus in Top. Mostly makes sense...Nasus shouldn't be pushing to the point where three people can contest him without losing something. > > I swear, feels like people only worry about "Skill", but have no "Macro game" at all. I think you've unlocked some macro game knowledge but should be more open minded towards other strategies and you'll continue to improve. > I have won games, where we had less kills actually, but took profit of every single small kill, by taking objectives... > Knowing what you can and can't take after won fights is a macro skill on its own. > Edit: I mean, I can swear many games are lost before they even begin, just by champions. Disagree. You can gain some advantages in champ select but they don't just end the game. > Of course, there have been times where I was surprised and proved wrong, but the "%" are there. > There are champions "Superior" to other, etc. There's a lot of counter play built into most things on league.
: "hide my match history, hide my mmr, hide my champion mastery, hide everything so there is no data on anyone....." It's a video game.... If anything they should reveal more information. I want to know what my mmr is and what the mmr of my team mates are. I want to know if my team mates are queued up together, I want to know if they have a lot of experience on a given champion. Please give me as much information as possible so that I enter the game with the information I need to make good decisions within the game. Protect my private information such as email address, phone number, name, etc... but the in game information such as summoner name, match history, play rate of a given champion and more should be public.
> [{quoted}](name=Morticianjohn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pEAYAoBa,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-23T23:32:49.028+0000) > > "hide my match history, hide my mmr, hide my champion mastery, hide everything so there is no data on anyone....." > > > It's a video game.... If anything they should reveal more information. > > I want to know what my mmr is and what the mmr of my team mates are. I want to know if my team mates are queued up together, I want to know if they have a lot of experience on a given champion. Please give me as much information as possible so that I enter the game with the information I need to make good decisions within the game. Can't you get most of this with one simple api call or using one of the league player tracking sites? > > Protect my private information such as email address, phone number, name, etc... but the in game information such as summoner name, match history, play rate of a given champion and more should be public. Agreed.
: I love how vocal he was about how Nubrac was the one ruining high ELO The pot calling the kettle back is an understatement
> [{quoted}](name=TwitchInMyPants,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7Efkn21t,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-06-24T00:42:32.069+0000) > > I love how vocal he was about how Nubrac was the one ruining high ELO > > The pot calling the kettle back is an understatement Right? Tarzaned: Why are you hardstruck? Nubrac could have said: It's because you have a "rank 1" player 3 out of the last 4 years win-trading. Pretty hard to win in that environment.
: I don't pay attention to downvotes. Some concepts are too complicated for people. :)
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WybA6EEo,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T16:34:54.413+0000) > > I don't pay attention to downvotes. Some concepts are too complicated for people. :) I don't either for the most part but I guess I was more genuinely curious to what your take on this post would have to be to down vote it lol
: Try psychology - before you sit down for a few games, ask them if there's anything that needs to be done, or keep yourself a list of things you know they're going to ask you to do every day. You get bonus points for taking initiative, and they're less likely to interrupt you.
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=WybA6EEo,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-23T04:03:24.323+0000) > > Try psychology - before you sit down for a few games, ask them if there's anything that needs to be done, or keep yourself a list of things you know they're going to ask you to do every day. You get bonus points for taking initiative, and they're less likely to interrupt you. Why down vote this? It actually makes a lot of sense...
: hi guys, help me to reform
> [{quoted}](name=Yuumi or Dodge,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=fQBqp9Aj,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-23T15:42:47.183+0000) > > A simple keybinding or command won't fix my mental. that's the real problem here. I feel a sick anxiety before even queuing up for a game. something that shouldnt be associated with a video game. can anybody help me? Spend a little bit of time working on this every day...try meditation it will do wonders for your mental game. Eventually you'll learn to accept things you can't control like the performances of other players.
: to be fair, i didn't take it badly , it just generally annoyed me that i could not communicate with draven and therefore that no team cohesion was possible (which to me is pretty much like griefing) and i was generally very chill in this game , even slipping a few jokes and when pointing out mistake , i make sure to not being mean but constructive and helpful even with rhetorical question as "why you run toward enemies with 20 hp ?" But i wondered how other people would take it
> [{quoted}](name=The Anivia OTP,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IuX2f0un,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-21T03:32:44.516+0000) > > to be fair, i didn't take it badly , it just generally annoyed me that i could not communicate with draven and therefore that no team cohesion was possible (which to me is pretty much like griefing) > > and i was generally very chill in this game , even slipping a few jokes Usually when you type about something like this they feel less motivated to help you. Think back on all the times you've played league and how many times have you had a strategic disagreement with someone and been like "oh yeah, your way sounds better...let's do that" > > and when pointing out mistake , i make sure to not being mean but constructive and helpful > even with rhetorical question as "why you run toward enemies with 20 hp ?" > I don't think this is helpful or constructive and can be taken negatively. A better way if you wanted to type would be like "hey let's back and buy we're all low HP" before they die running towards the enemy with 20 hp. After someone dies asking them "why" usually doesn't prompt a positive response.
: > The key piece you're missing here is the buffs to make them "viable" until they're a must pick or ban. Then Riot nerfs them into the ground a few patches later. It's just a champion/skin money grab. Admitted, there have been quite some champions they overbuffed after they started weak on release. I don't know if this is necessarily a money grab, tho. For example, Urgot started pretty weak after his rework and they didn't buff him for 2 patches, that's 4 weeks they waited before giving him any meaningful buffs. > They have released many champs and reworks that were broken AF often with 50%+ winrate right from the start. Can't come up with many right now myself, mind to give some examples?
> [{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T08:43:25.315+0000) > > Admitted, there have been quite some champions they overbuffed after they started weak on release. I don't know if this is necessarily a money grab, tho. For example, Urgot started pretty weak after his rework and they didn't buff him for 2 patches, that's 4 weeks they waited before giving him any meaningful buffs. It's still a money grab...it's just they happened to take an extra patch more to do it in that case. Just watch any new released/reworked champion and you'll see the recurring pattern. > > Can't come up with many right now myself, mind to give some examples? Didn't track all the winrates but consider the list of recent ones: Mordekaiser - broken positive winrate as released Yuumi - got exactly 13 hot fix buffs because not broken upon release Morgana - broken for a few patches before being nerfed Irelia - broken permaban/pick in pro play; Akali - broken permaban/pick in pro play for how many patches even after nerfs over who knows how many patches.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000400000003000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T00:10:10.875+0000) > > Strongly disagree. "Informing" your team often leads to a more toxic champ select. > > The notion of consent to pick the champion you want to play is ridiculous as well. How many players have you seen ask for and get consent from the team to play their picks? > > Additionally, Riot changed their policy to account for these unusual picks: > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans > > Please do this instead of dishing out 14 day suspensions to players who play unique play styles. > > Do actual investigations instead of just believing the word of some streamer with a few extra reports from one single game. I'm **not ** talking about picking the champ or even off-meta. I'm talking about _forcing your playstyle on someone else_. Irelia asked many times she didn't want him there.
> [{quoted}](name=NotDTOPuRLkn4,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=0004000000030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-23T06:26:41.445+0000) > > I'm **not ** talking about picking the champ or even off-meta. I'm talking about _forcing your playstyle on someone else_. Irelia asked many times she didn't want him there. I've talked about this already and Riot hasn't taken a position. Basically, it's a catch22. If Teemo leaves immediately as soon as Irelia pings him to leave it hurts the team significantly more. Therefore, as Teemo if you leave you're reducing the chances of your team winning vs maybe tilting your mid laner by staying. So either way you'll find "meta slaves" complaining that Teemo is either not trying his best to win or not communicating properly with the team. Additionally, you're "forcing your playstyle" upon the Teemo by pinging him after he stealths in a lane and trying to force him to leave. It's like spam pinging in the middle of a gank instead of trying to assist your jungler/teammates. Teemo's presence in lane stays longer but the concept is the same.
: Help me improve my behavior:
Type less, communicate with pings... When your teammates don't properly respond to pings don't waste time pinging them anymore. It's unfortunate that the state of league any typing is basically seen as "toxic". So, if you type more than a few lines, you're going to eventually get a chat restriction.
: Funny'd you mention the Nunu and Singed, because I have both the top threads from back then bookmarked specifically so I can shut down people who use them as a defense. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/FrILlWp7-14-day-ban-because-playing-nunu-support-with-smite-is-stealing-other-peoples-roles The Nunu one is a good for showcasing how even a decent performance doesn't justify playing the game like you're solo with no regards to your allies. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point The Singed one does a fantastic job of explaining why such a thing is against the rules, again regardless of performance. And in both cases, the players' punishments were not revoked. **** Nubrac also claimed he had a 65% win rate on it. Which a quick check on op.gg or any such site will show you is almost exactly 20% higher than his actual win rate. Checking will also show you that he goes negative whether it's a win or a loss, and chooses it regardless of the team's needs. Which is the main issue. He'll even do it last pick when the team is in dire need of hard CC... even despite the fact his actual main is Leona and he 100% knows it would be a better decision to pick her. He doesn't pick for the team, he simply plays game after game of whoever he decides he wants to play that day. Which in most roles isn't such a detriment, but is a major hindrance to the team for the Support to do. **** I don't want to be punished by proving to you that the Jinx strat is as stupid as the Teemo one...? But if you're asking for performance on par with Nubrac, again, it wouldn't be difficult to get a negative win rate on it to match his. **** The point was that often times the opposing character hasn't even heard of the enemy's card, so they don't know the effect. They'll do stuff like, "aha, you destroyed this creature, which means I get to summon [X] from my hand," when in reality both players would know the card effect. In a similar vein, the "strategy" of an exp-siphoning/gold-reducing "high commitment" gank like that only works if you've never heard of Nubrac before and think he's just afk in fountain. In fact that may be his only option now-- having allies say he's afk at the start-- because he made the stupid move of causing more of a ruckus than necessary over a decision he KNOWS is griefing. Even in the original video, he says in regards to people who don't want him to play Teemo, "fuck them, they can dodge if they want. I'm going to do what I want." Which, once again, is the part that makes it against the rules. You can argue whether or not the rules are fair, but you cannot argue that it is not against the rules as they currently stand.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=000400000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T23:17:51.560+0000) > > Funny'd you mention the Nunu and Singed, because I have both the top threads from back then bookmarked specifically so I can shut down people who use them as a defense. > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/FrILlWp7-14-day-ban-because-playing-nunu-support-with-smite-is-stealing-other-peoples-roles > The Nunu one is a good for showcasing how even a decent performance doesn't justify playing the game like you're solo with no regards to your allies. > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/79aGu3wR-support-singed-isnt-banable-but-thats-not-the-point > The Singed one does a fantastic job of explaining why such a thing is against the rules, again regardless of performance. > And in both cases, the players' punishments were not revoked. Perhaps you should bookmark this one as well: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans If Riot followed their own policy as detailed here, then they would have suspended the account and informed him that his play style would require more team communication. The two week suspension shouldn't have happened. > **** > Nubrac also claimed he had a 65% win rate on it. Which a quick check on op.gg or any such site will show you is almost exactly 20% higher than his actual win rate. Checking will also show you that he goes negative whether it's a win or a loss, and chooses it regardless of the team's needs. Nubrac maintains something like that. From his last 30 games of Teemo support at Master MMR he is 15 wins - 15 losses. Seems like he's doing as well as any other Master Tier player. Goes negative? Elaborate? > Which is the main issue. He'll even do it last pick when the team is in dire need of hard CC... even despite the fact his actual main is Leona and he 100% knows it would be a better decision to pick her. He doesn't pick for the team, he simply plays game after game of whoever he decides he wants to play that day. Which in most roles isn't such a detriment, but is a major hindrance to the team for the Support to do. So are we going to two week suspend every mid lane player who picks an ad mid laner with an all AD comp already picked? I feel like you'd be punishing 1,000's of players every day. > **** > I don't want to be punished by proving to you that the Jinx strat is as stupid as the Teemo one...? But if you're asking for performance on par with Nubrac, again, it wouldn't be difficult to get a negative win rate on it to match his. They aren't comparable and you know it. > **** > > The point was that often times the opposing character hasn't even heard of the enemy's card, so they don't know the effect. They'll do stuff like, "aha, you destroyed this creature, which means I get to summon [X] from my hand," when in reality both players would know the card effect. In a similar vein, the "strategy" of an exp-siphoning/gold-reducing "high commitment" gank like that only works if you've never heard of Nubrac before and think he's just afk in fountain. In fact that may be his only option now-- having allies say he's afk at the start-- because he made the stupid move of causing more of a ruckus than necessary over a decision he KNOWS is griefing. > I pointed out about 8 different positives that this Teemo strategy distinctly has that no other champion can offer in this type of "roaming" role. Nubrac also has earned 50% winrate over last 30 games on his Teemo strategy in Master Tier MMR. If that doesn't warrant someone to think it's a potentially viable strategy then I would think that individual lacked the capacity to think openly about it. > Even in the original video, he says in regards to people who don't want him to play Teemo, "fuck them, they can dodge if they want. I'm going to do what I want." > This attitude isn't different from a good majority of solo queue players. Again, unless you want to actively punish 1,000's of players every day for this you shouldn't point it out as an issue. > Which, once again, is the part that makes it against the rules. You can argue whether or not the rules are fair, but you cannot argue that it is not against the rules as they currently stand. I'm sure you're referring to this line from the summoner's code: "Being a good team player begins at champion select. Be open minded when considering the needs of your team. If you're the last one to pick, try to fill a niche in your team that hasn't already been filled..." We can argue about our interpretations of the rules and how they should be enforced. But, I doubt we're going to see eye to eye on that. As I've already said if you want to enforce things with your interpretation to this policy then it would result in 1,000 of punishments daily or more. If this is what you want that's fine, but I don't think most players would agree with that. So why hold an "off-meta" player to a higher standard?
: The rework is new: That is not just a disadvantage for those playing against Mordekaiser, you know? In general, most champions start with a really low winrate after a complete rework, because people have to learn how to play the champion as well as people have to learn to play against it. Usually, the winrate starts low and builds up over time when people learn to utilise the new kit at full potential, as well as learning the best itemization and other details. This was not the case for Mordekaiser. His winrate was **really high** considering that he got just released. I don't expect Mordekaiser's winrate to fall off alot, maybe it might even improve further when people have finally pinned down the optimal way to play him.
> [{quoted}](name=Chembaron Yamada,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=A8P9lyjj,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T12:32:04.513+0000) > > The rework is new: That is not just a disadvantage for those playing against Mordekaiser, you know? > > In general, most champions start with a really low winrate after a complete rework, because people have to learn how to play the champion as well as people have to learn to play against it. Usually, the winrate starts low and builds up over time when people learn to utilise the new kit at full potential, as well as learning the best itemization and other details. The key piece you're missing here is the buffs to make them "viable" until they're a must pick or ban. Then Riot nerfs them into the ground a few patches later. It's just a champion/skin money grab. > > This was not the case for Mordekaiser. His winrate was **really high** considering that he got just released. I don't expect Mordekaiser's winrate to fall off alot, maybe it might even improve further when people have finally pinned down the optimal way to play him. They have released many champs and reworks that were broken AF often with 50%+ winrate right from the start.
: > [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrMIseEl,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-06-21T03:39:43.361+0000) > > forced censorship is never a good idea; it should be an option in the filter settings Lmao the fact that you have 5 down votes on this deeply saddens me
> [{quoted}](name=Yasuo VS Riven,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrMIseEl,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-06-21T16:16:44.958+0000) > > Lmao the fact that you have 5 down votes on this deeply saddens me Yeah, it's pretty sad, the entire community feels like "babyfied". Trash talk made the game so much more fun.
: > [{quoted}](name=LordRedStone Nr1,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrMIseEl,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-21T05:14:47.126+0000) > > I do report "ggez" unless it's _clearly_ in a funny context. > It's just disrespectful, If your enemy was there in person would you walk up to them and say "haha this was easy you suck we totally destroyed you"? Yah lol, I am in my highschool basketball team and whenever we practice in my communitys court we always kinda trash talk the enemy. Like 'send me a postcard when you finish 'travelling'" (travel is when you hold the ball and move without dribbling' Or 'nice, I think you killed 3 birds with that shot' At the end of the match saying 'oh shit what an easy game' is pretty normal
> [{quoted}](name=WhispersinMyHead,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rrMIseEl,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-21T10:24:18.283+0000) > > Yah lol, I am in my highschool basketball team and whenever we practice in my communitys court we always kinda trash talk the enemy. > > Like 'send me a postcard when you finish 'travelling'" (travel is when you hold the ball and move without dribbling' > Or 'nice, I think you killed 3 birds with that shot' > At the end of the match saying 'oh shit what an easy game' is pretty normal Trash talk AND banter is fun :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Trias000,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=00030000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T21:00:55.133+0000) > > Such a dedication to prove absolutely nothing. Wow. Well I work as a data analyst. I made the tread with a provocative title and checked what will happen in my break time. I have the numbers. And it will not move no matter how you feel. I can flush out their elo, played seasons, played champion and role preferences, winrates and their GPI stats. You have nothing.
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T21:01:59.346+0000) > > Well I work as a data analyst. I made the tread with a provocative title and checked what will happen in my break time. I have the numbers. And it will not move no matter how you feel. Shame you presented no numbers though....I wonder why that is? :)
: That's not playing support in a different way. The roles have assigned _positions_. Only a new player or one that's taken a long break wouldn't know that. You can only make the case for it in blind pick, where positions are not assigned. You seem to be mistaken. He's not break even for the Master tier games. He's break even for combining the games he's won _after_ first getting demoted with it. And that's no better a defense than it would be to say jungle Tank Jinx has the advantage that the enemy won't expect Aftershock to proc off her grenades. His strategy "works" the same way surprise cards work in the Yugioh anime compared to the real game. It relies entirely on the opponent having no idea what he could possibly be doing. And even despite his proven negative performance with it, it'll actually be even less viable now that he's made a stink of getting rightfully punished. Because now anyone who sees him as Teemo knows exactly what he's doing.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-22T18:05:54.417+0000) > > That's not playing support in a different way. The roles have assigned _positions_. Only a new player or one that's taken a long break wouldn't know that. You can only make the case for it in blind pick, where positions are not assigned. It's sometimes playing support in a lane you're not used to seeing but both singed and nunu did it effectively at their elos as well but they always went into the enemies jungle. Support isn't defined and forced into the bot lane...it's just typically seen there. The Teemo player Nubrac even contacted Riot support and asked if he could support in another lane other than bot lane. > > You seem to be mistaken. He's not break even for the Master tier games. He's break even for combining the games he's won _after_ first getting demoted with it. Nubrac claimed he climbed from d4 or d3 to master tier primarily with this strategy. In his last 30 games in Master Tier MMR with Teemo support he's 15W-15L(not counting one remake). This to me basically says it's at least a likely coinflip scenario(50% chance to win or 50% chance to lose) at Master Tier MMR as a strategy. Therefore if you're a Master Tier Player(with this Teemo's skillset) this strategy should perform around the same as a standard "meta" one. > > And that's no better a defense than it would be to say jungle Tank Jinx has the advantage that the enemy won't expect Aftershock to proc off her grenades. Refer to above on how viable this strategy is compared to that. Unless you believe you can have comparable results. Then show us those results. But, I think you realize(I hope anyway), it's not nearly the same as a stealth champion that may or may not be in any of the lanes at the opening moments of the game. > > His strategy "works" the same way surprise cards work in the Yugioh anime compared to the real game. It relies entirely on the opponent having no idea what he could possibly be doing. And even despite his proven negative performance with it, it'll actually be even less viable now that he's made a stink of getting rightfully punished. Because now anyone who sees him as Teemo knows exactly what he's doing. Don't know anything about Yugioh...but I'm assuming you're trying to compare it to like "secrets" cards in Hearthstone. If that's the case, then even if you knew everything there was to know about what they could be...you still have to take non-optimal lines to play around them "properly". It's just like a higher commitment gank. You're spending a significant amount of time in a given area to try and gain an advantage for your team. Whether it's top,mid,enemy jungle or bot...why shouldn't a support get to choose? Also, as I've already mentioned this is terrifying for a knowing enemy team because Teemo could be just about anywhere. Want to hit lvl 2 quick and cheese your top laner? Well, what if Teemo is there? Same thing for mid. What about farming safely? If you overextend for a creep at the wrong time maybe it's a death or your sums or both. Want to farm your jungle safely but you get low when you clear? Can't go through that optimal path because Teemo might cheese you there? How about the bot lane? You want to all in the Teemo's adc...well he could even be stealth in that lane too. Where's the citation for "proven negative performance"?
: You can't use things that are almost a decade old and incredibly vague like "mage supports" as a defense of something like "not playing Support at all when you queued for it." Again and again, people need to be reminded that there is actually a difference between "off-meta" and trolling. Just because one high ranking player _proved his strat didn't work_, doesn't mean there aren't better off-meta strategies possible. Lotta people defending the guy for actually griefing his team with Teemo, when he could've actually been a champion who replaces a mage bot. Maybe LeBlanc or another assassin with a little hard CC. But Teemo is clearly not a champion that fills the role.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-22T11:22:14.536+0000) > > You can't use things that are almost a decade old and incredibly vague like "mage supports" as a defense of something like "not playing Support at all when you queued for it." It's playing support in a different way by sometimes supporting another lane other than bot lane. With approval from Riot(which Teemo actively talked to support beforehand and got), I think this should be okay. It certainly shouldn't be bannable without warning per the updates to Riot's policy from here: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans > > Again and again, people need to be reminded that there is actually a difference between "off-meta" and trolling. Just because one high ranking player _proved his strat didn't work_, doesn't mean there aren't better off-meta strategies possible. How is it not working? Break-even for 30 game sample in Master Tier MMR sounds pretty solid to me. > > Lotta people defending the guy for actually griefing his team with Teemo, when he could've actually been a champion who replaces a mage bot. Maybe LeBlanc or another assassin with a little hard CC. But Teemo is clearly not a champion that fills the role. Teemo provides a lot of uncertainty for his opponents. You don't know if he's stealth in top,mid,bot or the enemy jungle somewhere. There's lots of opportunities to gain early edges. To play around it all these lanes has to play extremely safe until Teemo shows or it's obvious he's taken EXP from a lane somewhere.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-06-22T01:48:01.942+0000) > > Lol another thread of you misusing "statistics" cool. > > Did you ever think that the population of players who post on these boards is in general "mid elo hell" players. Why didn't you look at the posters who were not "Nubrac supporters"? Do a comparison and let's see the results. > > Refer to above. > > Additionally, whether or not players who haven't tried a strategy think it's viable only shows how attached to the current meta you are. > > We know the strategy works for Nubrac and he achieves about Master Tier coin flips with it being 15W-15L with one remake over the last 31 games. > > Another generalization based on an opinion that may or may not be true. > > So it's like any other high elo strategy that may or may not get adopted in pro play. It needs to be tested. How do you think they established the "EU meta"? They tried a bunch of things in solo queue and found some new things that worked or copied someone in solo queue that did it. > > Nubrac was basically just one of those guys. > > So the "opposition" provides viable details on why the strategy works but somehow you don't accept that? Okay. > > Additionally, it's not always cut/dry whether or not you support someone or something. > > I support Nubrac to the point I think off-meta players shouldn't be held to a significantly higher standard and be required to get team approval to implement their picks. > > I also support a fair implementation of Riot's rules and they give a warning before they suspend a player who is trying their best with an unusual strategy. I think you are a lost cause since you were supporting a hysteric person that was insulting everybody in that thread and actively ignoring numbers saying it is fabricated. You have no credibility and I give you no respect for that. Shall I post the inflammatory and directly insulting and embarrassing material you supported?
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=0003000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-22T03:56:37.112+0000) > > I think you are a lost cause since you were supporting a hysteric person that was insulting everybody in that thread and actively ignoring numbers saying it is fabricated. You have no credibility and I give you no respect for that. > Why would I want your respect? I see you've gone away from using statistics in place of vague terms like "most", "majority", "poor" because last time you made a mistake you had to delete / edit your posts. You're the one that has no respect. Probably just another nb3 fanboy...
: > [{quoted}](name=BetterjgwinsNA,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-06-21T16:16:34.334+0000) > > Man the fun part is that some brain damaged numbrac followers might actually do this XDD. > > They lack too many brain cells to distinguish between whats inting and whats actually meta. I just made a thread yesterday of nearly 90 votes and 13.7k views. And I summed up the trend of the people there. 1. Majority of Nubrac supporters were not even mid elo hell even unranked. (Only one of them was gold 2. Out of a post of near 90 total votes and 13.7k views.) 2. People opposing the strat had played around more than 3 seasons of this game. They by experience know it is not viable. 3. Most of Nubrac supporters were either sock accounts or around level 40. 4. Nubrac supporters had poor arguments how it actually benefits the team more than the established EU meta. 5. While the opposition had provided data, statistics, knowledge on how Teemo and the support role works. They were pretty much being schooled how it is "intolerant". ...Yeah.
> [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=c7xmFKmA,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-06-21T20:40:36.201+0000) > > I just made a thread yesterday of nearly 90 votes and 13.7k views. And I summed up the trend of the people there. > Lol another thread of you misusing "statistics" cool. > 1. **Majority** of Nubrac supporters were not even **mid elo hell **even unranked. (Only one of them was gold 2. Out of a post of near 90 total votes and 13.7k views.) Did you ever think that the population of players who post on these boards is in general "mid elo hell" players. Why didn't you look at the posters who were not "Nubrac supporters"? Do a comparison and let's see the results. > 2. People opposing the strat had **played around more than 3 seasons of this game**. They by experience know it is not viable. Refer to above. Additionally, whether or not players who haven't tried a strategy think it's viable only shows how attached to the current meta you are. We know the strategy works for Nubrac and he achieves about Master Tier coin flips with it being 15W-15L with one remake over the last 31 games. > 3. **Most** of Nubrac supporters were either sock accounts or around level 40. Another generalization based on an opinion that may or may not be true. > 4. Nubrac supporters had poor arguments how it actually benefits the team more than the established EU meta. So it's like any other high elo strategy that may or may not get adopted in pro play. It needs to be tested. How do you think they established the "EU meta"? They tried a bunch of things in solo queue and found some new things that worked or copied someone in solo queue that did it. Nubrac was basically just one of those guys. > 5. While the opposition had provided data, statistics, knowledge on how Teemo and the support role works. They were pretty much being schooled how it is "intolerant". > > ...Yeah. So the "opposition" provides viable details on why the strategy works but somehow you don't accept that? Okay. Additionally, it's not always cut/dry whether or not you support someone or something. I support Nubrac to the point I think off-meta players shouldn't be held to a significantly higher standard and be required to get team approval to implement their picks. I also support a fair implementation of Riot's rules and they give a warning before they suspend a player who is trying their best with an unusual strategy.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=0004000000030000,timestamp=2019-06-21T21:47:42.447+0000) > > This. > > Dishing out a ban to make up for nb3 harrassing an off-meta player then getting him banned doesn't fix the problem for off-meta players. > > **Follow your rules and inform players if they have a unique play style that "requires" extra communication**. When I saw him type that, I knew that was worth a ban. The only problem about all of this is that Nubrac thinks he's in the right. You don't have to right to push your playstyle on your other teammates, especially if you do not mention it, and especially if they say no they don't want it, despite it working. {{sticker:sg-janna}}
> [{quoted}](name=NotDTOPuRLkn4,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=00040000000300000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T23:44:21.060+0000) > > When I saw him type that, I knew that was worth a ban. > > The only problem about all of this is that Nubrac thinks he's in the right. You don't have to right to push your playstyle on your other teammates, especially if you do not mention it, and especially if they say no they don't want it, despite it working. {{sticker:sg-janna}} Strongly disagree. "Informing" your team often leads to a more toxic champ select. The notion of consent to pick the champion you want to play is ridiculous as well. How many players have you seen ask for and get consent from the team to play their picks? Additionally, Riot changed their policy to account for these unusual picks: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans Please do this instead of dishing out 14 day suspensions to players who play unique play styles. Do actual investigations instead of just believing the word of some streamer with a few extra reports from one single game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:02:39.995+0000) > > Well he said Riot is not protecting him, and for his actions he will accept it. He kept his word for that at least. It is good to learn Riot does not have "favorites" as many have said like some sort of conspiracy. (i would be scared shitless if that really exists because it means a streamer can track you down to get banned) > > Besides, i wanted them both banned. I honestly didn't want either one banned. Human behavior is a part of life, as are misunderstandings and complications. The guy has a very unpleasant personality, but only actions taken because of it are an issue i'm more concerned that people can not separate alternative strategies and off meta from griefing, inting, afk'ing and other deliberate, punishable offenses tahm kench or Kalista forcing you under tower with their abilities...that's griefing. Anivia walling off allies constantly...griefing Trying something new and different based on experience: annoying, but not griefing
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000400000003,timestamp=2019-06-21T21:09:21.785+0000) > > I honestly didn't want either one banned. Human behavior is a part of life, as are misunderstandings and complications. The guy has a very unpleasant personality, but only actions taken because of it are an issue > > i'm more concerned that people can not separate alternative strategies and off meta from griefing, inting, afk'ing and other deliberate, punishable offenses > > tahm kench or Kalista forcing you under tower with their abilities...that's griefing. Anivia walling off allies constantly...griefing > > Trying something new and different based on experience: annoying, but not griefing This. Dishing out a ban to make up for nb3 harrassing an off-meta player then getting him banned doesn't fix the problem for off-meta players. Follow your rules and inform players if they have a unique play style that "requires" extra communication.
: Whats everyone talking about? {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
> [{quoted}](name=ı Sona ı,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=9TrQjVsX,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:13:26.673+0000) > > Whats everyone talking about? > > {{sticker:sg-lux-2}} Another off-meta contraversy...at least this one got some decent exposure :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:52:45.246+0000) > > I did. The person he contacted is not even on the Player behavior division. He just happened to talk about it and they escalated it. It is basically like telephoning Riot games, then being escalated to the correct division. Nightblue also said, he could have just made a ticket but he was too lazy and tuckered up to do it at that point. > (Considering Nightblue's "lazy" content...yeah) > > Illuminati does not exist. And I'll be damned if it did and the ban proves it. It's completely irrelevant if his contact was what got nubrac 14 days or not. What is relevant is he did something that explicitly against the LPP rules and with a 14 day ban would also disqualify him from have "a league account in good standing"
> [{quoted}](name=BestPudgeNA,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000c0000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-21T16:07:40.144+0000) > > It's completely irrelevant if his contact was what got nubrac 14 days or not. What is relevant is he did something that explicitly against the LPP rules and with a 14 day ban would also disqualify him from have "a league account in good standing" True. Shouldn't be in the LPP anymore.
c00face (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=HeartVine,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r8sPr9za,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:21:37.862+0000) > > Oh, my sweet summer child. We're just now transitioning from "NB3 *should* be banned" to "NB3 *IS* banned" threads. > > We're still in for a long winter yet... I don't know why I can't stop laughing to this.
> [{quoted}](name=c00face,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r8sPr9za,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:29:25.396+0000) > > I don't know why I can't stop laughing to this. Because it's pretty hilarious. :)
: He didn't start playing it untill late May, Look at his match history. He played teemo before May, yes, but It was 90% top lane teemo. It wasn't until late May that he began spamming it whenever he was in a game with a streamer to get a reaction. Take your hate for nb3, and shove it out the window, and then look at the facts. Idc what happens to NB3, but Nubrac deserved the ban 100% if you look at the facts. Smart trolls HIDE the fact that they're trolling. Doesn't mean it didn't happen.
> [{quoted}](name=BladeSteel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lnbFnidZ,comment-id=0003000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T23:19:03.313+0000) > > He didn't start playing it untill late May, Look at his match history. He played teemo before May, yes, but It was 90% top lane teemo. It wasn't until late May that he began spamming it whenever he was in a game with a streamer to get a reaction. The last 30 games played on Teemo were all support Teemo. 31 if you count the remake. > Take your hate for nb3, and shove it out the window, and then look at the facts. Idc what happens to NB3, but Nubrac deserved the ban 100% if you look at the facts. Smart trolls HIDE the fact that they're trolling. Doesn't mean it didn't happen. I haven't commented much on nb3's role besides it being unfair that a "prominent" streamer can threaten to get people banned and then follow through. He's got his own 14 day vacation now. I'm much more interested in whether Nubrac should be banned for playing off-meta in his own way. 15-15 just doesn't look like trolling to me it looks more like coin flipping. Doesn't mean it did either.
Yotq (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Zeppelins circus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-06-21T08:02:39.995+0000) > > Well he said Riot is not protecting him, and for his actions he will accept it. He kept his word for that at least. It is good to learn Riot does not have "favorites" as many have said like some sort of conspiracy. (i would be scared shitless if that really exists because it means a streamer can track you down to get banned) > > Besides, i wanted them both banned. But they do play favorites. You think he still would have been banned if not for the community outcry? Cmon bruh.
> [{quoted}](name=Yotq,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kHtytAg7,comment-id=000400000002,timestamp=2019-06-21T13:25:04.469+0000) > > But they do play favorites. You think he still would have been banned if not for the community outcry? Cmon bruh. You right. Good to see the community still has some power.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cameramon,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=000800010001000100000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T19:17:43.424+0000) > > Google, as always, is your friend. Not every streamer is going to show up when you google their league name. I'm not going through all that trouble and I'm sure you didn't either. Feel free to submit your list to prove me wrong. :) > > And he plays regular, legit support Teemo. This is the difference between off-meta, and trolling after all. Or did you forget about that fact already? > He played legit support Teemo in 30 games and went 15-15. > That is a poor attempt at dismissing evidence you know you cant beat. So, lets remember what the case is about. Its not about regular Teemo support. Its specifically about "roaming teemo support". Aka sitting in mid/top lane, and leeching exp. Naturally, when you want to check his win rate when trolling (or in your eyes, playing with that strategy), you have to narrow down only those games. You know however, that if you do so, his win rate plummets below the acceptable level. Riot has already openly stated that, after all. So, in a futile attempt to ignore that evidence, you look at all his Teemo support games. Both the ones he trolls in, and the ones where he plays legit. In order to let his actually good performance when playing legit mask the horrible win rate when trolling. There's no evidence. We both know you haven't gone through any games and you have no source. You didn't even realize he only plays Teemo in the support role over his past 30 games....LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Cameramon,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=NEjQ87ex,comment-id=00080001000100010000000000000001000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-06-20T23:38:20.646+0000) > > Well then here comes my simple question. How many examples can you provide of him doing the trolling and it not losing. If I recall correctly, youd have to go through 8 losses of the trolling before you find a single successful case. But no, instead youre looking at all games together. Knowing that the actual evidence disproves your little hypothesis thoroughly. Misleading evidence is all you have. That isn't evidence. You and your teammates don't always have good games in league. When you're talking about someone who plays 10+ games most days it's going to be very easy to find 3 instances of poor team performance. This has nothing to do with whether or not Nubrac was trolling...it just shows your bias on the subject. > > If that was the case, why didnt I go through the other earlier losses? Simple. They werent trolling. Those 3 cases are the first cases of him trolling, or as you like to call it, the "strat". But you and I, we both know that. We both know why I looked at those 3 games. We also both know that even if you kept looking, all you would find is overwhelming evidence showing clearly, undeniably, and beyond the faintest shadow of a doubt, that he loses 3 times as often as he wins when trolling. > I'm not sure what you're trying to say. If we held players to your standards of anyone who has a "bad" game, "bad" teammate performance or team simply lost all the lanes...you would consider every player who played a few games a troll. In any event what I've gathered from reading this paragraph is that he wins about as often as he loses with this strategy in Master MMR but you don't want to count the games he's winning for whatever reasons. > To placate idiots who still try to argue the dude wasnt trolling? There is evidence, I pointed out 3 cases, youre free to look into the rest and find the other 27 for yourself. Also, remember what Riot said. Nubrac already was on their radar since he was reported many, *many* times. All NB3 did was accelerate the inevitable. Yes Nubrac and/or his team have had bad games. So have you, so have I...so has everyone. It doesn't mean we're trolls it just means once your skill level matches your MMR you basically win games at a 50/50 rate. Some of those games don't go well. This is the Riot line: "This player in particular popped up on our radar a few weeks ago and we decided to not take action at that time because playing Teemo in this method is not against our rules." Let's assume for sake of argument they actually did investigate this prior to nb3 strong-arming the report through. This just means he was looked at and cleared.
: funneling reported players into their own category in ranked
> [{quoted}](name=The EightH ChaoS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=KeoBP6vU,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-20T22:21:58.933+0000) > > just an idea. tried searching it up and couldnt find anything on the topic really so here we are. > > so we all get those players that afk, feeds, trolls, etc. and obviously those that due their due diligence to report those negative players of the LoL community, i propose that the devs make some sorta "player filter". what do you mean player filter you say? lets say you get a feeder/bad player; if ENOUGH reports of that behavior for THAT player is registered in the system; that player is THEN put into a queue pool of players with similar reports. We have this in the ranked system. Your rank determines how good/bad the players are that you get paired with. > same thing with afks. you got someone that loves to AFK in ranked games?(with less reports needed as this is a more serious conscious effort offense), well guess what you get to play with other players that have a few AFK in ranked as well! karma. > This is already in every queue. Everyone AFK's whenever they want basically without punishment. If your power goes out multiple times, you have to take your Uncle to the emergency room in the same day then maybe you'll get low priority queue. Alternately, if you rage quit 4 or 5 games / day maybe you'll be put in low priority queue who knows. I would be all for a more strict AFK enforcement system.
: Unless you’re not trying to be caught like a moron. You can troll (make players rage at you) on purpose and still win games. Only Idiots troll obviously, especially to have a 10% win rate. And besides that, he only started doing teemo support in the last few months, this isn’t something he got to challenger on.
> [{quoted}](name=BladeSteel,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=lnbFnidZ,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T20:32:50.851+0000) > > Unless you’re not trying to be caught like a moron. You can troll (make players rage at you) on purpose and still win games. > Only Idiots troll obviously, especially to have a 10% win rate. And besides that, he only started doing teemo support in the last few months, this isn’t something he got to challenger on. Nubrac maintains he climbed from d3 or d4 to masters mainly off of this pick. He is at 15 wins and 15 losses for his last 30 games as Teemo support. That's pretty long con trolling to go 50% over that many games. Or maybe he's just peaked at Master MMR with this strat. Or maybe he could have gotten higher if nb3 hadn't gone afk in game to use a Riot contact to get him banned. Tough to say really...
: > [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2019-06-20T14:21:43.817+0000) > > How is that not a fair requirement? When I pick a mid laner I am picking a mid on the basis I will be in a solo lane often mage 1v1 match up. When I pick in adc I am going off the fact I will likely be 2v2 against another marksman and variable support. For example, if I knew I was going to be 1v2 in lane do you think I would have picked a champ with really low wave clear? If I knew teemo was camping me mid do you think I would have picked something that works off of his zoning to further my gold lead? > > To say that *typing for 20 seconds what you are going to do before game when your strat could completely change who your team is playing and what runes they take* is unreasonable is absolutely ridiculous imo. really...most people alt-tab during the pick/ban phase until it's their turn. Trying to communicate strategy is next to impossible in 2 and 1/2 minutes it's also been shown that using copy/paste measures to explain yourself is bannable as well because it's not "communicating with" your team but "communicating at" your team then there's the hypocritical "not at the expense of others" thing where you're actually playing the game and they want to enjoy it or at least play it at your expense you've quite literaly said it yourself, you are "likely" to encounter those situations, but if you don't, your strategy goes out the window...there's lots of stuff that can completely change how the game works
> [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=3aEv91nv,comment-id=000d00000000,timestamp=2019-06-20T21:13:47.280+0000) > > really...most people alt-tab during the pick/ban phase until it's their turn. Trying to communicate strategy is next to impossible in 2 and 1/2 minutes > > it's also been shown that using copy/paste measures to explain yourself is bannable as well because it's not "communicating with" your team but "communicating at" your team It creates so many hypothetical issues: * Entire lobby tends to be more toxic if you try to explain that your pick is unusual. * Some players can agree to try it then someone that was afk can be like "nah" after you've already picked or try to ping you out of their lane after agreeing. * It's very rare to see any one try to get their consent on a pick. Should consent be required for certain things? What things? * It's variable how much time you even have to get all of this done based on what pick you are, how fast everyone selects, how responsive your team is. If as Riot you're going to have it be a giant gray area then you should enforce your rules how you said you were going to enforce your rules in these cases: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/EtXQhs5J-weore-updating-our-policy-so-unusual-play-styles-dont-get-14-day-bans
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C9 Aphrolift

Level 130 (NA)
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