: So you are saying “F all I want to play Ez and I will play Ez and you can’t report me because I do what I want”. Also what is the relevance he brings? Edit: The usual picks are not questioned exactly for the part where I told you that the commonly accepted supports and off supports have peels, CCs and or buffs for team mates that provide some help for the carry not only to kill faster but also survive, even meatwalling might work and it’s still something Ezreal can’t do.
> So you are saying “F all I want to play Ez and I will play Ez and you can’t report me because I do what I want”. I wouldn't say it's exactly that but...isn't this exactly how most players think about how they will select their champion? > Also what is the relevance he brings? If your ADC is very passive then you can wait buy a tear and scale to mid game. If your ADC is aggressive you have the poke to assist them. If your ADC is going to walk up and INT despite being pinged that we're being ganked or dies in some other way you are in better shape than you were any other support because you can both farm till he gets back and safely avoid most bad situations with your e & q. Ezreal's poke is also more relevant in more situations from the mid game on because you can poke at great range and you have a low cool down blink which allows you to position more aggressively than other poke champions would be able to. Thanks to IBG the poke will also stick more often and offers a lot of peel. > Edit: The usual picks are not questioned exactly for the part where I told you that the commonly accepted supports and off supports have peels, CCs and or buffs for team mates that provide some help for the carry not only to kill faster but also survive, even meatwalling might work and it’s still something Ezreal can’t do. What does it take for it to become a commonly accepted support? I've seen it played by other people. I've played it. Challenger players played it last pre-season.
: I think that Ezreal support will always be controversial and most likely unaccepted. If you take a look at "validated" supports, be them meta or off-meta picks, they always have something they can do (other than damage) to help their lane partners. Be it shields/heals or CCs, they bring on the table tools to make life easier for the carry position and not just some help in tearing down the enemies' HP bars. Ezreal doesn't have it, all he can do is pokepokepoke and let his team mates take the credit for the kill. This ofc can be useful with a teamcomp which already has some supportive and CC tools but without a previous agreement with the rest of the team it can be considered just you wanting to play your game at the expense of others'.
> [{quoted}](name=Stars Shaper,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=002b,timestamp=2018-12-29T15:33:24.346+0000) > > I think that Ezreal support will always be controversial and most likely unaccepted. Thus off-meta pick. > If you take a look at "validated" supports, be them meta or off-meta picks, they always have something they can do (other than damage) to help their lane partners. Be it shields/heals or CCs, they bring on the table tools to make life easier for the carry position and not just some help in tearing down the enemies' HP bars. He offers relevance in more situations far better than any other support I've found in my games. > > Ezreal doesn't have it, all he can do is pokepokepoke and let his team mates take the credit for the kill. This ofc can be useful with a teamcomp which already has some supportive and CC tools but without a previous agreement with the rest of the team it can be considered just you wanting to play your game at the expense of others'. This is the issue I disagree with the most. Many players come into champ select and pick the champ they want to play regardless of how it influences the "team comp". They are not put into question, so why should Ezreal support be any different?
: I'm talking mid-late game. Not lane phase. Lane phase the warding is much more linear and less of an issue. Each lane has their yellow trinket and pink ward and is responsible for their own entrances, with the duo lane often using their 'second ward' to watch the bush or sometimes dragon/blue buff, depending on the enemy jungler, where your jungler uses their ward, and how your lane is going. It's a much easier dynamic, and thus your 'less ward heavy support' is less of a concern. This is why I suspected you were a lane focused player. Nearly all of your responses focus on the lane - whether you intend to or not. Lane phase rarely ends before level 9(well except for the support sometimes if he's roaming), so level isn't an issue if we're talking about the non-lane-phase. Edit: As to why you can't supplement for a poor warding support? It's because you're supposed to be contributing to warding ANYWAYS. So the GOOD warding support is STILL relying on the rest of the team to ward some things. Because one person can't ward/clear everything. There's a reason why you'll often see pro teams with 8-10 pink wards in their inventory as a team. Because EVERYONE is EXPECTED to ward. So if your support is bad at it, the rest of your team can't just WARD MORE because they're ALREADY supposed to be WARDING as much as they can. You're just losing out on a BIG chunk of your warding with no one to pick up the slack.
You're completely deviating from the point which was to answer this question: > But if you offered me a 6/10 gameplay with a 4/10 warding or a 4/10 gameplay with a 6/10 warding, I'd take the latter. When I'm playing adc with a poke support, I will always take the first over the second. We obviously aren't going to agree on this. As for the rest, your entire paragraph hinges on maximum vision equals 100% vision equals what matters for vision. And this is simply not true. Where and when you ward matters way more than maximizing how many wards you happen to decide to put down. Additionally, the 6/10 warding guy is still lacking by your definition of warding too. You're also not going to have perfect vision of everything that's relevant even if he was warding as a 10/10 guy.
: Riot should fix their punishment system
Stop banning players because of chat. If you can't mute people, I don't know what to tell you. Stop banning players just because they play ezreal support or whatever champion they feel like playing. Start banning players that run it down mid repeatedly. Start banning players who feed, go 0/8, say it's their first time playing a champion and they don't know what the champions skills do & only buy control wards all game. Maybe discount any reports made by these type of players.
: They should only ban for gameplay related things imo. If you're running it down mid, you deserved to be banned. If you call your shitty jungler a shitty jungler, you shouldn't get punished. Lol. I'm not advocating that kind of behavior, but there's a mute button for shit like that. There is literally a button you can push to never again see verbal toxicity. Don't want to mute your team? Do you think typing/reading is important? Wonderful, there's also a chat filter. Lol. You can block chat. You can block "bad words". Because of that, getting banned for chat or bad words is silly. What you cannot prevent it people running it down mid, following the jungle around, or any other form of grieving. Ironically, it's way way way way wayyyyy easier to get banned for saying something mean than it is doing something that actually ruins the game. That is stupid. Ftr, I'm honor 5. I talk a bunch of shit in game. I've never been chat restricted. The current system isn't near as strict as the boards would have you believe. Regardless, the idea that you can get banned for any type of toxic communication, to me, is asinine.
> Ftr, I'm honor 5. I talk a bunch of shit in game. I've never been chat restricted. The current system isn't near as strict as the boards would have you believe. Regardless, the idea that you can get banned for any type of toxic communication, to me, is asinine. I think it's stricter than you realize. I mostly agree with what you're saying about communication though.
: I got perm ban for calling my botlane "noobs" and telling them to play normals back in 2015. On my new account i mute everyone at the start of the game and i don't say anything in champ select or post game chat and now i am level 5 honor lol their system rewards anti social behavior which is fine with me because if i wanna talk to people while playing games i'll just go onto discord with my friends.
> [{quoted}](name=AToxicPlaya,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=NNdwU0P9,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-12-23T00:42:16.682+0000) > > I got perm ban for calling my botlane "noobs" and telling them to play normals back in 2015. On my new account i mute everyone at the start of the game and i don't say anything in champ select or post game chat and now i am level 5 honor lol their system rewards anti social behavior which is fine with me because if i wanna talk to people while playing games i'll just go onto discord with my friends. Good luck, they'll eventually hit you with this: "Sadly it seems that there was a lack of communication of your role int he team and it's come back to bite you." Riot employees can't even spell check their responses...you think they give two craps about getting anything "right"?
Galiö (NA)
: I find MF a much worse support than EZ, she was used in pro play againt things like zyra for the bounce off her plants and people would still play that into any match up. I dont see why you should be banned unless you feed a lot. In those situations it could also be your team being salty over your pick and letting you die.
> I dont see why you should be banned unless you feed a lot. In those situations it could also be your team being salty over your pick and letting you die. It was actually quite the opposite...I didn't feed in either game they cited. In fact, we won a game that was essentially a 4v5. It was more like they were salty cause I was doing well and they weren't so they needed someone to blame. I'm just appalled that combined with an off meta-pick is enough to draw a two week suspension.
rujitra (NA)
: Toxicity
Backbone. That's what's lacking on the internet and IRL these days. I'm for a more free flowing league of legends chat. If you don't like it, it's okay...I believe in you...I know it's tough but.....you can press that mute button.
CakeMix (EUW)
: "So you're trying to say that because I want to play the "bloody game" for enjoyment, I should be the one at fault if I'm not enjoying it?" That's the exact same reasoning people give when you've been trolled and had countless hours wasted. The answer most people here will give you is: Yes At the very least you have a mute button to stop that level of abuse. just saying. Edit: Thanks for Downvoting. Just means that I'm 100% on the mark and your too childish to take a point contrary to your own.
> The answer most people here will give you is: Yes > At the very least you have a mute button to stop that level of abuse. > just saying. Agree with this. > Edit: Thanks for Downvoting. Just means that I'm 100% on the mark and your too childish to take a point contrary to your own. And this. People start down voting every post(from multiple accounts) you make on here once they have no valid case or points to present left.
: From past cases of off-meta support bans, and their reversals, or non-reversals... it seems you'll ought to be protected from reproach if you 1) take exhaust and 2) build the gold item to completion first. If you got banned, your best bet for a reversal, based on past cases, would be to take the matter to youtube and get as many clicks as possible. Riot has stated that filling support and then not taking exhaust could be reportable of itself.
> From past cases of off-meta support bans, and their reversals, or non-reversals... it seems you'll ought to be protected from reproach if you 1) take exhaust and 2) build the gold item to completion first. If you got banned, your best bet for a reversal, based on past cases, would be to take the matter to youtube and get as many clicks as possible. It's not really possible to get a demo of the first game in question and the suspension has already been served so I feel it would do little good. > Riot has stated that filling support and then not taking exhaust could be reportable of itself. Where did they state this?
: No actually you can't. Riot limits warding so much that you can't really supplement for a poor warding support. It's not like you can just go buy a batch of green wards and an oracle elixir and ward/clear for yourself. You need your blue trinket as an adc, and not getting it is a detriment to the entire team.
> No actually you can't. Riot limits warding so much that you can't really supplement for a poor warding support. Are you sure you know what the word supplement means? > It's not like you can just go buy a batch of green wards and an oracle elixir and ward/clear for yourself. You need your blue trinket as an adc, and not getting it is a detriment to the entire team. Um, you can't even upgrade to blue trinket till level 9. You can ward yourself with your trinket and/or buying control wards.
goodfed (NA)
: Was this actually 10 game mute worthy? Why do toxic duos have the power of getting people muted?
What champion were you playing? I thought Riot only punished players who play off-meta champions when they try to defend themselves.
: I didn't miss your point, I simply disagree with it and firmly state that it does more harm than help. Assholes are going to be assholes, I totally agree with you! Full heartedly I do! However, does that mean we need to tolerate them? Thieves are going to be thieves; do we move on, or do we call the police to have them fined/imprisoned? Cheaters going are going to cheat; do we tolerate that, or do we break up and find someone better? Just because people are too stubborn to change, doesn't mean we have to tolerate it. And these "threads with the same thing" are a testament saying that: "we, as the community, are tired of these people ruining the gaming experience for us. RIOT, please help us, because your current system is not working."
> I didn't miss your point, I simply disagree with it and firmly state that it does more harm than help. > > Assholes are going to be assholes, I totally agree with you! Full heartedly I do! However, does that mean we need to tolerate them? Thieves are going to be thieves; do we move on, or do we call the police to have them fined/imprisoned? Let's look at this another way. If you're going to play an online game like league of legends you're going to run into toxic behavior sooner or later. It's like walking into a shady section of town, at night, alone. Is it wrong if you get assaulted or robbed? Of course. But, you can save yourself by simply taking a different path(like muting). Also, it's not "being tolerated" it's just you have to meet certain qualifications for Riot to dish out punishments(like playing Ezreal support and carrying your team). You can equate this to the real life scenarios of not all thieves are going to get caught. But you can still report them to the police(aka submitting a report post-game).
Zardo (NA)
: I genuinely don't get people like this
> People who do their hardest to try to tilt their teammates. Are you sure this is their intent... > They'll passive aggressively ping all game, flame you the entire game, Pings are mutable, chat is mutable...and maybe they're just helping to communicate > smite buffs away from you, smite cannons away from you, etc. for literally no reason. So if they're smiting a buff they are probably the jungler and it's their buff? It's kind of an etiquette thing to ask if you're going to take a buff from a jungler. A cannon minion can be smited in the interest of pushing the lane out quicker. > You can be playing perfectly, be the most positive player on earth, and still have people do this. Why do people do this? What's their end game? Maybe they're just playing the game the want they want to play it.
: I've been "punished" by vigilante players across hundreds of games for off meta picks, such is life. {{sticker:sona-playing}}
Gather the off-meta troops and unite as one!
: Trying New Characters
Try out Ezreal support; he's amazing.
: Well, I got permanently banned.
I think you got out cheap. Enjoy your time away from league :)
: I have one tip for you, get out of this game, seriously play other games, MOBA or not, but get out of this game because : 1) You will feel healthier and grateful to yourself after this because you quit this toxic environment. 2) You won t continue to play a game (and spend money in) made by a company that allows sexism, racism and harrasment in their own company but won t allows you to say that your mate is stupid even if it s a competitive toxic game will you ? 3) Do you want to play a game where some teams arn't clearly giving a little bit of attention in their game (balance team and now skin team intensifies) ? I don't think so. For my part I m just addicted to some champions but when i will get my permaban (it will happen i m sure) i will just get out of this game and trashtalk this company and his game untill things have seriously changed.
> For my part I m just addicted to some champions but when i will get my permaban (it will happen i m sure) i will just get out of this game and trashtalk this company and his game untill things have seriously changed. Kind of feel the same way....
: People give me headaches.... Okay, I'll try and explain this slower so everyone can follow along. The two actions are not the same. They do however exhibit the same connotative thinking traits. Both injustices involve the public blaming the victim. This is the correlation I'm drawing. If that is still a bit difficult for you, let's try another analogy. Basketball and football are two different sports. Different rules, different plays, etc. However, both teams have coaches that train their athletes, and both coaches exhibit the same types of traits which we can compare too; despite being two completely different sports. Just because two scenarios are different; doesn't mean we cannot correlate ways of think or social behaviors from them.
It's just grossly oversimplifying the situation. Since when is someone dishing out verbal abuse a "victim for reacting". Why does a troll always have to be a troll? People make mistakes in game...why focus on their game play when you could be focusing on your own?
Kazekiba (NA)
: You're aware Velkoz exists? Hell Malzahar does all that stuff too, but better, and he's still a TERRIBLE support.
> You're aware Velkoz exists? Good poke but doesn't have the same mobility so can't poke as safely.
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=002400020000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-03T00:07:34.877+0000) > > This is only proving my point. How? How does Veigar, a champ you listed as a potential support being shown to be completely useless in that role prove your point? > Some supports are viable that build damage. Building damage on a support is fine. But it will be behind damage dealer's and to stay relevant the champ's kit has to have a significant amount of utility for the champion to be viable as a support. If you pick a champ like Veigar who has barely any of that, you are putting your team behind on purpose. > Most people would think this pick is fine. Even if that was the case, that would just make most people wrong. > The cage has a lot of synergy with any AOE / hard engage teams. What cage? Do you mean Event Horizon? Yeah, it's great cc. Also, the only bit of utility on Veigar. It's good, it's just not _enough_. That's literally the only thing Veigar instead of a support does. And you will never explain away the execute ult. > Your opinion, not mine. I know. It's a coherent argument and unless you have some sort of special power designating you always right, just stating you disagree won't make the point any less valid. > I think she's trash if you can't play aggressively. I've played with plenty of Leos who did well beside me and I'm about as passive a laner as you can get. If you zone by threatening engages, and engage when it's safe, she's fine in a passive lane. You must be confusing "passive" with "tourist", but you won't find a champion that can play tourist and contribute properly to laning. > So it forces you to play one way. And, if your opponent just plays safe you have no win conditions. If your opponent plays safely and doesn't give windows for you Leo to engage, you win by outcs-ing them. > Ezreal as a support can have a great mid game You just have to build scaling items...so when you're not winning hard you try and scale or if the lane is very passive in general. When you are winning you can build more damage oriented. Either way, you're more than just a ward bot in more scenarios than what you see as "typical support champions". There is no such thing as a ward bot support. Take any support from my list and you'll get a decent selection from cc, zoning, peel, shielding, healing, team mobility, supplemented by a bit of subpar damage or tanking. With a 0 utility support _all_ you get is the latter. > It is a double standard. You are saying it's okay for the entire league of legends support field to pick Leona whenever they want despite what the ADC has to say. But, when I want to pick Ezreal support, you have said multiple times I won't get the same kind of treatment from you. You know, if I hire a painter to paint my room, I won't start telling him what tools to use, as long as I see him using things like brushes, roller painters and that sort of crap. When I see the guy grab a fishingrod out of his bag and start dipping it in the paint I'll stop him and get sy else. It's not a double standard against painters who use fishing rods, it's requiring the same standard from all painters. > Okay, but what issue isn't solved? Issue? Solved? What are you talking about? We are discussing your nonsensical claim that Ezreal, of all champs, can be played instead of a support any time, anywhere and people should all be happy about it. There's no solving issues here. > I enjoyed hearing a lot of different perspectives on Ezreal support, what happened with my suspension & figuring out my own course of action. In what way does this address the quote to which you are responding with it? > It works. Yeah, you said that. You even gave a flimsy argument as to why you think that is (which is to your credit, because most people who ad nauseam repeat their original point fail to even do that.) But your arguments are addressed at this point, so let's do this thing where instead of trying to reset the discussion to it's beginning you respond to what's new. > There's even a game cited in my suspension card that proves you can win essentially 4v5's that you couldn't win with other laners. No, there isn't. Name one situation in which a single game proves any more general statement on its own. Even the notion is ridiculous. > It doesn't matter if a CS laner is ahead of you or by how many items. It's about doing relevant, supplemental damage in team fights. No, it's about how you could do much better on champs that don't rely on itemization. Any support that doesn't go for a full support or tanky build can deal "supplemental" damage. They also have a variety of very useful tools in their kit to impact the fight more than just by administering some weenie damage. > He does have utility in the form of a slow from Iceborn Gauntlet which contributes to his power spike in the mid game. 1) A slow is way, way subpar utility when you compare to what actual support champs are working with. 2) Unless I missed a patch and Ez has a new passive and now starts with an Iceborn Gauntlet, that's not utility in his kit. That's utility anybody can build. Wtf? 3) You keep repeating this mid game power spike shit. Let's assume for argument's sake that it's a thing and more significant than a powerspike from just simply finishing an item. By mid game everybody compared to him is way more powerful. If your "power spike" takes you from being able to do a third of the damage damage dealers to half, you still remain irrelevant as a damage dealer.
> How? How does Veigar, a champ you listed as a potential support being shown to be completely useless in that role prove your point? He's not useless. It's just another example of you stating something as fact when it's just an opinion. > Building damage on a support is fine. But it will be behind damage dealer's and to stay relevant the champ's kit has to have a significant amount of utility for the champion to be viable as a support. If you pick a champ like Veigar who has barely any of that, you are putting your team behind on purpose. Different supports have different roles...I would take a Veigar support who lands things over a ward bot who does nothing for me any day. > Even if that was the case, that would just make most people wrong. Or maybe it's not everyone else it's just you. > What cage? Do you mean Event Horizon? Yeah, it's great cc. Also, the only bit of utility on Veigar. It's good, it's just not _enough_. That's literally the only thing Veigar instead of a support does. And you will never explain away the execute ult. Another unsubstantiated opinion about what utility is "good". Executing enemies is a bad thing? > I know. It's a coherent argument and unless you have some sort of special power designating you always right, just stating you disagree won't make the point any less valid. I fail to see a coherent compelling argument made on your side at all...would be nice to see sometime. > I've played with plenty of Leos who did well beside me and I'm about as passive a laner as you can get. If you zone by threatening engages, and engage when it's safe, she's fine in a passive lane. You must be confusing "passive" with "tourist", but you won't find a champion that can play tourist and contribute properly to laning. Your opinions of Leona and mine are different. So when I'm playing ADC should a Leona have to okay with me before locking their champ? > If your opponent plays safely and doesn't give windows for you Leo to engage, you win by outcs-ing them. No, you get out scaled by virtually everything. It's like you can't even read sometimes. > There is no such thing as a ward bot support. Take any support from my list and you'll get a decent selection from cc, zoning, peel, shielding, healing, team mobility, supplemented by a bit of subpar damage or tanking. With a 0 utility support _all_ you get is the latter. Yup, Leona definitely offers "team mobility"....love to hear the explanation on that one. > You know, if I hire a painter to paint my room, I won't start telling him what tools to use, as long as I see him using things like brushes, roller painters and that sort of crap. When I see the guy grab a fishingrod out of his bag and start dipping it in the paint I'll stop him and get sy else. It's not a double standard against painters who use fishing rods, it's requiring the same standard from all painters. What if you didn't know what a roller was? > Issue? Solved? What are you talking about? We are discussing your nonsensical claim that Ezreal, of all champs, can be played instead of a support any time, anywhere and people should all be happy about it. There's no solving issues here. > > In what way does this address the quote to which you are responding with it? It's solved because you aren't bringing anything new to the table. I've had these discussions with many other people in this thread. > > Yeah, you said that. You even gave a flimsy argument as to why you think that is (which is to your credit, because most people who ad nauseam repeat their original point fail to even do that.) But your arguments are addressed at this point, so let's do this thing where instead of trying to reset the discussion to it's beginning you respond to what's new. > > No, there isn't. Name one situation in which a single game proves any more general statement on its own. Even the notion is ridiculous. It proves in every game where your ADC is non-existent or dies a lot you can still be more relevant as a support than any other support. That's a lot of situations. > No, it's about how you could do much better on champs that don't rely on itemization. Any support that doesn't go for a full support or tanky build can deal "supplemental" damage. They also have a variety of very useful tools in their kit to impact the fight more than just by administering some weenie damage. > > 1) A slow is way, way subpar utility when you compare to what actual support champs are working with. > 2) Unless I missed a patch and Ez has a new passive and now starts with an Iceborn Gauntlet, that's not utility in his kit. That's utility anybody can build. Wtf? > 3) You keep repeating this mid game power spike shit. Let's assume for argument's sake that it's a thing and more significant than a powerspike from just simply finishing an item. By mid game everybody compared to him is way more powerful. If your "power spike" takes you from being able to do a third of the damage damage dealers to half, you still remain irrelevant as a damage dealer. There's no champ that gains what he gains from these two items and doesn't need farm to get them early enough in the game to do meaningful things with them. You are a supplemental damage dealer.
Pika Fox (NA)
: Doesnt work like that. Its a catch all so when they do something valid its fine without naming every case, but it doesnt literally give them a free pass to do so. They still need to abide by laws.
> [{quoted}](name=Pika Fox,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=001c000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-03T00:24:06.061+0000) > > Doesnt work like that. Its a catch all so when they do something valid its fine without naming every case, but it doesnt literally give them a free pass to do so. They still need to abide by laws. It releases them from legal liability so when it comes to refusing service or permanently banning your account...they aren't breaking any laws.
: Then you're an entirely lane-focused player, and I can understand that. In the current meta that's not entirely a bad thing... but overall it's still not ideal. Basically you'll take the player who has a greater chance win you the lane but also the greater chance to lose you the game. I'd rather the person who is more likely to not win me the lane, but more likely to win me the game personally. And most people generally feel that way, from what I've seen.
> Then you're an entirely lane-focused player, and I can understand that. In the current meta that's not entirely a bad thing... but overall it's still not ideal. Basically you'll take the player who has a greater chance win you the lane but also the greater chance to lose you the game. I'd rather the person who is more likely to not win me the lane, but more likely to win me the game personally. And most people generally feel that way, from what I've seen. I'm not a lane focused player, I just want my poke support to land their poke. When I'm ADC I can supplement a bad poke support warding poorly but I can't supplement him dealing damage if I'm already doing the maximum damage I can. It's not rocket science.
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=0024000200000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T01:17:15.148+0000) > > I'm assuming because you included Zyra & Lux that Brand, Velkoz, Veigar, or Xerath would be okay right? Hell no. > What about Shen, Fiddlesticks, Sion, Maokai? No. For a champ to be viable as a support they have to both be useful in lane and have enough utility to be useful on a support budget and build from mid game on. You list Veigar, the antithesis of a support. 3 straight damage abilities, one of which is a freakin' _execute_ and balanced around the idea of a strong ap build complimented by farming(!) with his Q. Come on, man... > {{champion:89}} - This one in particular was highlighted by a much better player than me in another thread. > > Basically the gist of their argument was: > Leona forces you to play in such a way that you have to stay super aggressive to stay relevant. Leona is at her optimum utility in lane if she can play aggressive. On the other hand her engage is so strong that she can zone by simply threatening it, so she can play by a relatively passive adc's side too. > Ezreal is similar in you are punished more as the adc if you making positioning errors because he lacks cc. So it's forcing you to play safer to stay relevant. Ez could potentially do well in lane poking and zoning, but he under no circumstances stays in any way relevant once it gets to the midgame and onwards. > Because we(the person who made this comment & myself) would rather not play aggressive all the time, we would prefer an Ezreal Support over a Leona. Let's be honest. You'd play Ez instead of a support because you don't like supporting, don't give a shit about the collective, in this case the team, and just want to goof around. If you'd want to play a safe, poking support you'd go Lulu, or Nami, or Lux or any of the other valid options. > How many times has a Leona support asked if it was okay for them to play Leona? Never. They don't have to, Leona is a viable champion for the role. > Are you seeing the double standard yet at all? As in, if somebody picks a viable champion indicating that they intend to follow the established strategy they don't have to ask if that's okay? That's not a double standard. You don't have to ask either if you pick a champ like that. > Agree to disagree on this one. No. You can leave it at this or keep debating, but I'm passionate about this issue and won't just walk away with detached apathy. > Just because you don't understand how it works Okay, I'mma stop you right there. I'm not the one banned for trolling, and I'm not the one supporting the person who got banned for trolling. Obviously the pick itself wasn't the reason, but the dirpy, goofy, not caring manner of play that included it isn't a strong indicator that the you have a strong case to make about understanding how supporting works. I understand why you think it works. I also understand why it doesn't. And also why it's morally repugnant to just arbitrarily pick this shit into a team of randos. > doesn't mean it won't work. Duh. The reason it doesn't work is not because of anybody's understanding but because of the champions inherent inability to function well in the role. > Frequently in games I had Maramune transformed and IBG completed at 20:00-25:00 independent of farm, kills & assists. Ooh, impressive. That would put you... what? One, one and a half item behind cs-ing laners. But luckily Ez has the utility to make up for this differ... wait, no, he doesn't. If the other support is not trolling they too have around the same amount of gold spent, only they do have the utility to still matter.
> [{quoted}](name=zoliking,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=00240002000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-28T02:00:55.850+0000) > > Hell no. > > No. > > For a champ to be viable as a support they have to both be useful in lane and have enough utility to be useful on a support budget and build from mid game on. You list Veigar, the antithesis of a support. 3 straight damage abilities, one of which is a freakin' _execute_ and balanced around the idea of a strong ap build complimented by farming(!) with his Q. Come on, man... > This is only proving my point. Some supports are viable that build damage. Most people would think this pick is fine. The cage has a lot of synergy with any AOE / hard engage teams. > Leona is at her optimum utility in lane if she can play aggressive. On the other hand her engage is so strong that she can zone by simply threatening it, so she can play by a relatively passive adc's side too. > Your opinion, not mine. I think she's trash if you can't play aggressively. So it forces you to play one way. And, if your opponent just plays safe you have no win conditions. > Ez could potentially do well in lane poking and zoning, but he under no circumstances stays in any way relevant once it gets to the midgame and onwards. > > Let's be honest. You'd play Ez instead of a support because you don't like supporting, don't give a shit about the collective, in this case the team, and just want to goof around. If you'd want to play a safe, poking support you'd go Lulu, or Nami, or Lux or any of the other valid options. > Ezreal as a support can have a great mid game You just have to build scaling items...so when you're not winning hard you try and scale or if the lane is very passive in general. When you are winning you can build more damage oriented. Either way, you're more than just a ward bot in more scenarios than what you see as "typical support champions". > Never. They don't have to, Leona is a viable champion for the role. > > As in, if somebody picks a viable champion indicating that they intend to follow the established strategy they don't have to ask if that's okay? That's not a double standard. You don't have to ask either if you pick a champ like that. > It is a double standard. You are saying it's okay for the entire league of legends support field to pick Leona whenever they want despite what the ADC has to say. But, when I want to pick Ezreal support, you have said multiple times I won't get the same kind of treatment from you. > No. You can leave it at this or keep debating, but I'm passionate about this issue and won't just walk away with detached apathy. Okay, but what issue isn't solved? > > Okay, I'mma stop you right there. I'm not the one banned for trolling, and I'm not the one supporting the person who got banned for trolling. Obviously the pick itself wasn't the reason, but the dirpy, goofy, not caring manner of play that included it isn't a strong indicator that the you have a strong case to make about understanding how supporting works. I understand why you think it works. I also understand why it doesn't. And also why it's morally repugnant to just arbitrarily pick this shit into a team of randos. > I enjoyed hearing a lot of different perspectives on Ezreal support, what happened with my suspension & figuring out my own course of action. > Duh. The reason it doesn't work is not because of anybody's understanding but because of the champions inherent inability to function well in the role. > It works. There's even a game cited in my suspension card that proves you can win essentially 4v5's that you couldn't win with other laners. > Ooh, impressive. That would put you... what? One, one and a half item behind cs-ing laners. But luckily Ez has the utility to make up for this differ... wait, no, he doesn't. If the other support is not trolling they too have around the same amount of gold spent, only they do have the utility to still matter. It doesn't matter if a CS laner is ahead of you or by how many items. It's about doing relevant, supplemental damage in team fights. He does have utility in the form of a slow from Iceborn Gauntlet which contributes to his power spike in the mid game.
Pika Fox (NA)
: That legal jargan is in there as a catch all, but its not entirely true in reality. They cant literally terminate your account for any reason they deem fit. Theres still some basic consumer etiquette and responsibilities they must maintain. You cant have people pay for a service, then randomly ban people from accessing their content they paid for with no reason other than whatever lottery you set up to do so, for instance.
It's a catch all that keeps them from having any liability. Of course, they don't normally close your account for no reason...but before this incident I would have assumed they wouldn't suspend your account for two weeks and call it "role stealing" when you're just attempting to give your team a better chance to win.
: You're using an unfair comparison. Person a is a 0/10 at everything but warding but a 10/10 at warding Person b is a 10/10 at everything but warding and still a 4/10 at warding. Of course I'd prefer the second one. He's just straight up a better player overall. But if you offered me a 6/10 gameplay with a 4/10 warding or a 4/10 gameplay with a 6/10 warding, I'd take the latter.
> But if you offered me a 6/10 gameplay with a 4/10 warding or a 4/10 gameplay with a 6/10 warding, I'd take the latter. I would rather have the first if they were playing a poke support.
Midg3t (EUNE)
: OP, imagine you're playing a poker. One round of poker=one League match. Now imagine you get a really bad hand (some totally opposite cards from the ones that are revealed on the table), and the rest of your opponents are constantly raising the bet. In that situation, would you: - keep going, following bets, throwing in almost all of your money in hopes your hand will somehow be the winning one, even tho the chances for that are almost nonexistent - fold and save your money for the next, maybe better for you round And why?
This analogy is terrible. Surrendering in league and giving up is more comparable to this situation in poker: You are all in on the turn vs one player and there's exactly one card that can come for you to win the pot on the river. Do you walk away from the table because you're probably going to lose or do you stay and see the outcome through?
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=00240002,timestamp=2018-11-27T22:48:05.281+0000) > > Thank you for answering all my questions....feedback is great. > > I think you're an ADC main, right? Damn skippy. > Can you provide me with the list of "zoliking" approved supports that don't need approval to lock in before they play with you? Sure. I might've missed one or two, but here it is: {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} > He's a poke support. He's not any support. After laning his usefulness to a team below being able to dream about being subpar. > "He does less damage than other poke supports, WTF why would you play this?" Who said this and why are you bringing it up? > Because he has more escapability than other poke supports. He also can be built to have a strong mid game power strike in stalled lanes where nothing is happening or go more aggressive with AP/AD damage depending on what need if you're winning lane. And by mid game power spike you mean sitting on a warding/gold item, an upgraded boot and maybe the first component to an item on a kit that depends on itemization. What a power spike. It's on par with the third AP item Vayne power spike. Just thinking about playing against it makes me shiver with primal horror. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}} > No, I just stumbled upon the video in another thread and linked it. Neat.
> Sure. I might've missed one or two, but here it is: > {{champion:12}} {{champion:432}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:25}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:223}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:412}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:143}} > I'm assuming because you included Zyra & Lux that Brand, Velkoz, Veigar, or Xerath would be okay right? What about Shen, Fiddlesticks, Sion, Maokai? {{champion:89}} - This one in particular was highlighted by a much better player than me in another thread. Basically the gist of their argument was: Leona forces you to play in such a way that you have to stay super aggressive to stay relevant. Ezreal is similar in you are punished more as the adc if you making positioning errors because he lacks cc. So it's forcing you to play safer to stay relevant. Because we(the person who made this comment & myself) would rather not play aggressive all the time, we would prefer an Ezreal Support over a Leona. How many times has a Leona support asked if it was okay for them to play Leona? Are you seeing the double standard yet at all? > He's not any support. After laning his usefulness to a team below being able to dream about being subpar. Agree to disagree on this one. > And by mid game power spike you mean sitting on a warding/gold item, an upgraded boot and maybe the first component to an item on a kit that depends on itemization. What a power spike. It's on par with the third AP item Vayne power spike. Just thinking about playing against it makes me shiver with primal horror. Just because you don't understand how it works doesn't mean it won't work. Frequently in games I had Maramune transformed and IBG completed at 20:00-25:00 independent of farm, kills & assists.
: Very true, I'd like to add that a lot of times people will forgive you once the game is over. I think the majority of players understand that it can be stressful in games and some trash talking is well expected. However, if you continue to harass in post-game chat. it is almost a sure way to get a report. One or two reports won't hurt but if it becomes a trend then a ban is probably not far away. there is also no reason to talk much after the game, the game is over, winners and losers are announced, let it go and move on.
> However, if you continue to harass in post-game chat. it is almost a sure way to get a report. One or two reports won't hurt but if it becomes a trend then a ban is probably not far away. > > there is also no reason to talk much after the game, the game is over, winners and losers are announced, let it go and move on. I feel the exact opposite is true. If you're talking too much in game you're probably taking away from your game and the player who is interacting with you. I've had many informational post-game talks with players about things that happened in the game and League of Legends in general.
: Why are players always giving up?
> Just tell me WHY do people give up this easily when they are not in winning conditions? There's some mystical concept that they are saving time if they force forfeit and move on to the next game. But, to me, either way you're using time either way..if you make a commitment to play a game you shouldn't just give up cause things aren't going well. > EACH GAME OF LOL IS, IN THE END, A TRUE WASTE OF TIME EVEN IF YOU WIN I strongly agree but you'd be surprised I would estimate 30%+ of players are perfectly fine with giving up when they don't think a game is winnable. Strangely enough this is about the same percentage of players who would condemn me to be suspended for selecting a champion they don't like or not buying a control ward in a game as a support. > EDIT: i'm not saying it is easy or the chances are strong of a comeback. But if you have 5% chances or even less, then on 100 games in this situation, you'd win 5 of them instead of 0, wich makes a great difference is your win rate. Small note on this if you do come back and win you might get your account suspended for that very game if you are a support when your ADC gives up and essentially afk's for "Specifically for taking roles that were not assigned to you..".
Pika Fox (NA)
: Unless youre holding out information on us, just contact again. They physically cannot punish or ban you for playing ezreal support. Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen.
> Unless youre holding out information on us, just contact again. They physically cannot punish or ban you for playing ezreal support. Thats a lawsuit waiting to happen. I don't think so on the lawsuit. I'm no lawyer but...when you agree to Riot TOS when you sign up: https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#virtual-goods 4.4 Looks like this: > NOTWITHSTANDING ANYTHING TO THE CONTRARY HEREIN, YOU ACKNOWLEDGE AND AGREE THAT YOU SHALL HAVE NO OWNERSHIP OR OTHER PROPERTY INTEREST IN YOUR ACCOUNT, AND THAT ALL RIGHTS IN AND TO YOUR ACCOUNT ARE AND SHALL FOREVER BE OWNED BY AND INURE TO THE BENEFIT OF RIOT GAMES. Also 5.1 looks like this: > ...The Code of Conduct is not meant to be exhaustive, and we reserve the right to modify it at any time, as well as take appropriate disciplinary measures including account termination... So, basically IMO, they can terminate your account for whatever reason they want and you have no legal recourse. Not to say that they would or anything....but they can.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=001c000000000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T17:26:33.196+0000) > > I've pretty much conceded on getting the banned overturned. I don't want a Riot employee to get angry at me for linking them to their own promotional video and upgrading my ban to a permaban. I'll be back to play Ezreal support after my suspension ends sometime. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il4VX-R4dsQ Riot support is a separate entity from standard Riot Staff who work at an offsite location through a staffing management company. They don't know unless you let them know.
> Riot support is a separate entity from standard Riot Staff who work at an offsite location through a staffing management company. They don't know unless you let them know. To me a staffing management company that Riot employs is Riot. In any event, I'm playing Ezreal support every game from an alternate account I made yesterday or the day before. Ezreal was on that free rotation thingy, I think. I'm happy playing some normals and testing some things out on this one until my account is restored.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GFIVL8Tv,comment-id=000600010000000000010001,timestamp=2018-11-26T19:19:00.321+0000) > > You can use the Ezreal E to effectively against a Blitzcrank hook by body blocked for your ADC. {{champion:12}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:497}} = Supports you don't want to pull because they can freely engage onto your adc now, thanks for the free flash buddy. {{champion:12}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:223}} = supports that don't cared about getting hook cause they have the tankyness to survive early on {{champion:25}} {{champion:223}} = Do I really need to explain why morg and kench are here? {{champion:40}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:412}} = If the adc got hooked over these its not instant win unless the adc was low already, because nothing is stopping that adc you just pulled from turning onto your ad instead when their support is ready to cc your adc, the only two adcs' where this doesn't matter is if the blitz is supporting draven/lucian. Translation: Stop trying to justify Ezreal support when actual support champions can do anything he has to offer as support 10x better.
> Translation: Stop trying to justify Ezreal support when actual support champions can do anything he has to offer as support 10x better. There's no support that is 10x better than Ezreal as a poke support IMO.
: Vision is BY FAR the most important duty of a support, once laning phase ends. During laning phase, the duties are a bit different simply due to the reduced availability of vision components. You're welcome to disagree, but people will consider you to be trolling if you act otherwise, because everyone except you sees it as the most important part.
> Vision is BY FAR the most important duty of a support, once laning phase ends. During laning phase, the duties are a bit different simply due to the reduced availability of vision components. > > You're welcome to disagree, but people will consider you to be trolling if you act otherwise, because everyone except you sees it as the most important part. If you are playing a poke support your main objective is to land poke. It doesn't mean vision isn't still important but to me IMO it becomes a slightly less important goal. Example, would you really rather have: a Brand support that never landed an ability but warded everything as you saw fit & upgraded his ward item OR one that landed nearly everything and sometimes didn't grant you perfect vision or didn't always upgrade his ward item at the same priority you saw fit? I know which one I would choose.
: So I watched the replay on the MF game as well as the next game involving Sivir. In both, you played support Ezreal. Just looking at the first few minutes of each game, there's a noticeable difference in the one where you were reported and the one where you weren't. This suggests that you do understand the support role, and that you do also understand what you did that was reportable, if not punishable. Firstly, I've never played Ez support, but I do realize he can be anywhere from a menacing threat to the most likely repeat "Ally has been slain" candidate. He's viable, has strengths and noticeable weaknesses. Next: You were taking CS in the MF game, but not in the Sivir game. When I say take, you were actively autoing, Q'ing, or using minion dematerializer while your ADC was in the lane. I normally wouldn't say that's punishable, but I do think that it contributed to your punishment, especially since it seemed to interfere with MF's last hitting. You did take some CS in the Sivir game, but this was to push the lane to the turret (as far as I had noticed) and your ADC had based. All in all, I think this behavior likely led to your punishment. I think there was something also communicated in chat that probably reflected this. I main support, so I do feel obligated to point these things out, but I would be surprised if any of this contributed to your punishment: you didn't buy control wards, and your ward scores were low for a support. Minion dematerializers in lane aren't great, but should be saved and used for when super minions are coming to town. You often didn't use exhaust during skirmishes. You didn't use exhaust in the MF game until 11:10, whereas your Pyke counterpart used it twice in that span (he could have used it thrice). I am interested if you ever wrote support regarding your ban, or if you plan to do so.
> So I watched the replay on the MF game as well as the next game involving Sivir... Interesting take...I'd love to hear your feedback on the first game as well. > He's viable, has strengths and noticeable weaknesses. Awesome! Ezreal support is viable. I agree. > ..I normally wouldn't say that's punishable... Okay. You bring up some great points from the second game. > I main support, so I do feel obligated to point these things out, but I would be surprised if any of this contributed to your punishment: you didn't buy control wards, and your ward scores were low for a support. Minion dematerializers in lane aren't great, but should be saved and used for when super minions are coming to town. You often didn't use exhaust during skirmishes. You didn't use exhaust in the MF game until 11:10, whereas your Pyke counterpart used it twice in that span (he could have used it thrice). Thank you for pointing out some of my mistakes. Maybe, after my suspension is over I will look these and other replays over to see what I can do better. > I am interested if you ever wrote support regarding your ban, or if you plan to do so. I did but nothing past what was written in the initial thread. Being that a large majority of players I've talked to have condemned me based upon not buying a support item early enough in the game, the fact that I didn't buy control wards and/or I played Ezreal Support... I have to say I'm not very hopefully and have basically let it go. What do you think?
zoliking (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-25T02:21:26.243+0000) > > Hey Everyone! > > I've been playing Ezreal support a bit towards the end of season 8 and recently received a two week suspension: Really? Holy shit, this is awesome. I'm sure you did other things too, but at least justice got done in this rare instance. For once I'mma say this: good job Riot. > > I've received many comments in other threads about this pick/case already and I'm interested to learn more about what other people think. > > Here's a short list of questions that I'd like to see how people answer and discuss with everyone: > > * **Should off-meta champ players be held to a higher standard than players who play meta champions? If so, how so & how much higher?** The standard of don't do it unless your team is cool with it. Yeah. > * **How would you feel about an Ezreal support in your game?** If I've just started playing that day and I am in a gentler mood it's play and report. If I'm already worn out by previous pick trolls it's curse you out in the most obscene way then dodge. > * **Does your opinion of how you feel about an Ezreal support change at all if it's a low-elo(bronze/silver) game?** No. > * **When playing an off-meta champ like Ezreal Support should you discuss your champion choice with your team before picking it?** No shit, duh. > * **What are the best safe guards I can put in place to main Ezreal support so I don't receive chat restrictions, suspensions or bans?** Play it only when your team, especially your laning partner is okay with it. > **Why Ezreal?** > The main reason is because it's a champ I enjoy playing and I've tried him as an ADC and I don't enjoy playing him nearly as much or that role as much. I like the fast traveling skill shot q which can be spammed and used to poke down/get gold from enemy champions. I like that I can hit a meaningful mid game power spike that offers(pick potential, peel & damage) between 20:00-25:00 minutes in majority of my games independent of getting kills,assists or farm. Ezreal offers 0 utility. He is a damage dealer entirely dependent on items. Not viable in the least as a support. How you like his Q is so irrelevant you might as well have said you like the splash art is the reason. > The official reasoning was "Intentionally Feeding". Here's an excerpt of the response I got from the robot initially when I submitted a support ticket: > > Obviously, one of the games cited I had 0 deaths so I requested a human to get more information. Eventually they responded with: > > Being that I queue for support in about 80% on my league games I find it particularly strange. Why would I try to steal someone's role when I have the role I want to be playing in the current game? Anyway, I added some of these comments to the tickets along with a few others and the last response from them looks like this: > > So, it's very clear to me that this suspension will not be lifted. I find this response especially demoralizing for the entire "off-meta" community. Holy crap, that's Riot player support saying something similar to what I've been parroting to pick trolls for years. Are they turning around on this? Probably not. Did they happen to actually make a correct call for once, thereby inspiring some hope that this is not a lost issue? Hell yeah. I'm so excited right now! > [edit]Adding some context to the games: > Game #1: Jinx backed around 4 minutes and went top lane and wasn't seen again in bot lane for all of laning phase. I tried my best in a 1v2 lane and I feel like I was a major contributing factor to us winning this game. I mean, yeah, responding to trolling by further trolling is not the correct thing to do, but you started it dude. > Game #2: Our lane was heavily camped although I did not die. I spent a great deal of the last 10-15 minutes of the game clearing super minion waves that would have otherwise hit/killed our nexus towers which is why my CS is "high". So? > [edit #2] > Here's a challenger commentary playing Ezreal support in preseason last season: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcBx0MOWz-E Is this what you mistook for a license to troll? It's not.
Thank you for answering all my questions....feedback is great. > Play it only when your team, especially your laning partner is okay with it. I think you're an ADC main, right? Can you provide me with the list of "zoliking" approved supports that don't need approval to lock in before they play with you? > Ezreal offers 0 utility. He is a damage dealer entirely dependent on items. Not viable in the least as a support. How you like his Q is so irrelevant you might as well have said you like the splash art is the reason. He's a poke support. "He does less damage than other poke supports, WTF why would you play this?" Because he has more escapability than other poke supports. He also can be built to have a strong mid game power strike in stalled lanes where nothing is happening or go more aggressive with AP/AD damage depending on what need if you're winning lane. > Is this what you mistook for a license to troll? It's not. No, I just stumbled upon the video in another thread and linked it.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=GFIVL8Tv,comment-id=0010000200000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T00:06:00.592+0000) > > Hm > > You were implying you need to have added knowledge so you know with certainty you could play a specified role with a weird champion in order to compete at the same level with your true main champions. > > But if you your true main champion is Ezreal support then you don't have to improve your knowledge at all to play at the same level because you're already playing at said level. > > In this form it's more of a statement than a question though. Oh, sorry. What i meant with my claim is that your off-meta pick has to be able to compete with your best meta pick for that role. Let's say my best true ~~adc~~ _cough_ **marksman** is Ashe. I often like playing Mordekaiser against very difficult matchups for Ashe, such as Leona. I have to be confident i can perform AT LEAST at the same level with Mordekaiser as i can on Ashe. This applies to any non-meta pick - Morde is just a real example. (And no, that Riot wanted him to be able to go bot does NOT make him a meta bot lane pick, or you'd be seeing him picked way more) Likewise, your Ezreal support needs to be able to compete with, say, your Pyke, or your Zyra, or your Thresh. Does that make sense? Because if you pick Ezreal support and proceed to go 0/8 you could be considered having troll-picked your bot lane buddy as ANY "real" support might have won that lane. In the end Ezreal is a pretty extreme example due to his extremely poor affinity as a support. Pretty much ANY champion with any sort of crowd control can work as a support - ezreal is one of the few champions that is a bad choice no matter what your matchup is. He's practically built around killing minions. I seem to remember that for a time Ezreal support was actually meta. It was NOT very successful, as it turns out your average player can't play him on the same level the pros do.
> Oh, sorry. What i meant with my claim is that your off-meta pick has to be able to compete with your best meta pick for that role. In order to solve this issue(well more like accidentally), I've created a new account where I main Ezreal support. > Likewise, your Ezreal support needs to be able to compete with, say, your Pyke, or your Zyra, or your Thresh. Does that make sense? Yes, I get what you're saying but the issue with either game wasn't that my pick wasn't competitive with my other champs in my champion pool. I got punished in one game for trying to enhance our chances of winning a 4v5(that we ended up actually winning) "Specifically for taking roles that were not assigned to you.." > I seem to remember that for a time Ezreal support was actually meta. It was NOT very successful, as it turns out your average player can't play him on the same level the pros do. Let's bring it back! We can make him stronger...faster.... uh what was the rest
: I'm quite appalled by all of the people stating that you deserve to be banned for simply playing a champion in an out of meta role, no matter how well you do or not. Do these same players, and Riot included, not remember when they decided to release trailers about out of meta gameplay, and encourage it? Yet what they are actually punishing goes against everything they say they are for. Riot, at this stage, is all about instating a meta, and holding people accountable for that meta. That meta is usually defined by how competitive play goes, meaning that those players can play out of meta without worry, yet the majority of the playerbase can not? It's quite absurd what has been happening with Riot lately, especially since they sold out to Tencent. I just want to enjoy the game, and not be chained down and forced to play what others want me to. I'm sorry this happened to you summoner. {{sticker:cass-cry}}
> I'm quite appalled by all of the people stating that you deserve to be banned for simply playing a champion in an out of meta role, no matter how well you do or not. I don't normally agree with absolutes but this is definitely an exception for me. I think that's the issue is a lot of people think things are an absolute case based upon one thing they overvalue or think is the most important thing: You didn't buy the ward upgrade item as early as you could; You aren't a support, YOU ARE A TROLL. You didn't buy a control ward all game; You aren't a support, YOU ARE A TROLL. You played Ezreal support; Ezreal isn't a support, YOU ARE A TROLL. Blanket statements like this are usually bad. I have a percentage in mind about people that think because either: I played Ezreal support, didn't upgrade my ward item early enough or didn't buy any control wards I'm not a support and should be banned. What do you think that number is? > > Do these same players, and Riot included, not remember when they decided to release trailers about out of meta gameplay, and encourage it? Yet what they are actually punishing goes against everything they say they are for. > > Riot, at this stage, is all about instating a meta, and holding people accountable for that meta. That meta is usually defined by how competitive play goes, meaning that those players can play out of meta without worry, yet the majority of the playerbase can not? > > It's quite absurd what has been happening with Riot lately, especially since they sold out to Tencent. I just want to enjoy the game, and not be chained down and forced to play what others want me to. > > I'm sorry this happened to you summoner. {{sticker:cass-cry}} Thank you for your comments and support. I don't agree with Riot's decision at all but I'm glad it's given me this opportunity to have this discussion. I feel like I've learned a lot from it.
: lol I had a similar experience just last night when I was playing with ONE friend. We got matched against a 4-premade and a 5-man premade right after. We won one of them at least. But I just really wished matchmaking wasn't so aggressive in general. It's like, you wanna play with just ooooone friend? Here, play against a full premade team! Oh? You carried pretty hard last game going 17/3? Here, lane against a Diamond player why don't yah? After all your score from the last game determines how good at you are at this game right?
> Oh? You carried pretty hard last game going 17/3? Here, lane against a Diamond player why don't yah? After all your score from the last game determines how good at you are at this game right? Be happy your reward for winning was just playing against "better" players like most everyone else. For some us it results in suspensions.
Alzon (NA)
: I have probably seen half a dozen support Ezreals in the past year. One of those times was when I was the ADC on the same team (although I might have been playing a mage in that position, like Karthus or Malzahar). Those champions you listed offer so much more in either utility, CC, or kill pressure. Hell, LeBlanc support does everything Ezreal support does but with the addition of kill pressure and a bit of CC, and she comes online at level 3 instead of after two items. “Safe, mobile champion who can harass at range” is what we’re looking for, because that’s literally all support Ezreal is. Even W-max Zed Support would fit the bill, while also having kill pressure and some CC. Just like LeBlanc, and unlike Ezreal. Azir, Ziggs, Kalista, Nidalee, Corki, Lucian, and Rek’Sai can also fill the same niche as Support Ezreal while offering so much more to their team.
> I have probably seen half a dozen support Ezreals in the past year. One of those times was when I was the ADC on the same team (although I might have been playing a mage in that position, like Karthus or Malzahar). Hm, cool. So all 6 games were losses though? > Hell, LeBlanc support does everything Ezreal support does but with the addition of kill pressure and a bit of CC, and she comes online at level 3 instead of after two items. “Safe, mobile champion who can harass at range” is what we’re looking for, because that’s literally all support Ezreal is. Even W-max Zed Support would fit the bill, while also having kill pressure and some CC. Just like LeBlanc, and unlike Ezreal. I tried a couple games of LeBlanc support in Season 8. I was flamed pretty hard for "ks'ing" in a few games. > > Azir, Ziggs, Kalista, Nidalee, Corki, Lucian, and Rek’Sai can also fill the same niche as Support Ezreal while offering so much more to their team. For me it's mainly about the skill shot poke, flexible build options, always fairly relevant in lane & mobility to stay safe.
: Were these ranked games? If so, then you shouldn't be playing ranked until you have enough of an understanding of the game to at least have a good idea where champions belong and what the current meta is. If you weren't in ranked, then it's much more forgivable and that changes my perspective a lot. Honestly, if someone picked Ezreal support in ranked, sold their support item, and never bought control wards... then I'd think they were trolling too. A support's primary duty is the managing and control of mapwide vision(of course the rest of the team should help with this). Depending on your champ, your secondary duty spawns from there... but your primary duty is vision. This has been the case for YEARS. If you're neglecting this, then I would argue you're not doing the role right. Now, whether your trolling depends on the other facets of the game so it's not just 'don't buy control wards, get reported'. But... if you don't buy control wards, don't have a support item, and don't have a sweeper... then you're really nothing but a low-budget midlaner/adc at that point and everyone knows that an underfed midlaner or adc is just free gold.
> Were these ranked games? If so, then you shouldn't be playing ranked until you have enough of an understanding of the game to at least have a good idea where champions belong and what the current meta is. If you weren't in ranked, then it's much more forgivable and that changes my perspective a lot. I feel like I have a pretty good understanding of the meta but I'm obviously not perfect. > Honestly, if someone picked Ezreal support in ranked, sold their support item, and never bought control wards... then I'd think they were trolling too. Yes, these are ranked games. [Game 1](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2897760841/78752420?tab=overview) [Game 2](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2914661059/234554309?tab=overview) Might want to give them a quick glance over. > A support's primary duty is the managing and control of mapwide vision(of course the rest of the team should help with this). Depending on your champ, your secondary duty spawns from there... but your primary duty is vision. This has been the case for YEARS. If you're neglecting this, then I would argue you're not doing the role right. Now, whether your trolling depends on the other facets of the game so it's not just 'don't buy control wards, get reported'. But... if you don't buy control wards, don't have a support item, and don't have a sweeper... then you're really nothing but a low-budget midlaner/adc at that point and everyone knows that an underfed midlaner or adc is just free gold. Vision is a one duty of a support. I disagree with how much importance you're placing on it. Also, I would further say in the games where I play ADC if I had the choice between a poke support who provides more vision or one that lands more abiilities I would take the second in a heartbeat.
: > Besides being a threat Too bad Ezreal depends on having gold to actually deal damage > a deterrent We have Zyra/brand that can deal 10x the damage ezreal does in AOE (with much less gold btw), and the other supports that aren't damage carries can still deterrent enemy players with CC and peal, so once again Ezreal fails. > or maybe he makes the ultimate sacrifice and jumps in front of the ADC to block a thresh grab or an Ashe ult Implying you need Ezreal's E to do that when legit any support champion can do that with good positioning, but if you really wanted a support just for that one job look no further because riot already have these 3 perfect for that job {{champion:223}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:201}}
> Implying you need Ezreal's E to do that when legit any support champion can do that with good positioning, but if you really wanted a support just for that one job look no further because riot already have these 3 perfect for that job {{champion:223}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:201}} You can use the Ezreal E to effectively against a Blitzcrank hook by body blocked for your ADC.
: ***
> You are still pushing the lane overall, even if minions were going to die to tower....... > > I will just give up you are ignoring every people trying to explain you why you are indeed making your teammates weaker (Yes i did look at the games before my first answer) It's very easy to simplify this scenario: You are a support player & none of your teammates are in range to get a minion wave that is crashing at your tower. The cannon minion is very low health and going to die to the tower. Your course of action is either: a) try to get the cannon minion OR b) DO NOT try to get the cannon minion Which do you choose? > And you also don't pay a 450 gold item (frostfang) giving damage AND vision, so yes you are a huge troll and lower your team's chance of winning even if you won't admit it I see type of comment a lot. It deals in absolutes which you don't really have much of in league. I have explained my reasoning for not upgrading my support item in game #2, some of which include: 1. It's not very useful against the Nocturne ganks we've been facing. 2. The enemy team is very far ahead and we will not be able to contest neutral objectives anyway. 3. There's no "hide on bush" plays being attempted by either team. We're sitting for the most part in lanes trying to save towers. I'm not asking you or anyone else to state that my way or the alternative in this particular instance was optimal even. I just don't want to be punished for taking a building path that would give us the best chance to win at the time.
Jikker (NA)
: For the average player, champions are set to a specific role or maybe one or two roles (Camille being top/jungle for example). Often they are balanced around this role/roles so they are not meant to perform to the best possible ability in another role. The support's generally accepted job is to help the ADC get going, protect them during fights, provide vision for the team, and have a good chunk of utility to help the team as a whole. If you compare Ezreal to Nami in terms of support, for example, who has the more tools in their toolkit to provide the ADC what they need to get going and keep the team well supported? The Nami who has a heal for sustain, CC for peel and engages, AA steroid for more damage, and MS buff for disengage/engage? Or the Ezreal who has damage and self peel and relies on items to assist his team outside of the damage he provides? In the end, Nami is definitely more fitting to the generally held definition of a support than Ezreal. That's why most people see off meta as a troll pick. It's not the **M**ost **E**ffective **T**actic **A**vailable (hence term "meta"). When given the option to pick a champion custom tailored for the role, people expect such champions. I'm actually a big fan of off-meta picks because they add variety to the game, but most players don't share my viewpoint. That's why Riot wants you to clear strategies beyond the generally accepted with your teammates before playing. While it may work, they may not enjoy that playstyle and you have inadvertently "ruined" the game for them. It was the same thing with support Singed taking smite and counter-jungling. Great strat, didn't make the laning phase fun for the ADC who had to 1v2 a lot. In a team game, you will always have to work with your random teammates and that means communicating effectively with them so they understand what you are doing and why you are doing it so that the experience is enjoyable by all. That's just the way League is now.
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=001f00000000,timestamp=2018-11-26T17:07:20.852+0000) > > For the average player, champions are set to a specific role or maybe one or two roles (Camille being top/jungle for example). Often they are balanced around this role/roles so they are not meant to perform to the best possible ability in another role. The support's generally accepted job is to help the ADC get going, protect them during fights, provide vision for the team, and have a good chunk of utility to help the team as a whole. If you compare Ezreal to Nami in terms of support, for example, who has the more tools in their toolkit to provide the ADC what they need to get going and keep the team well supported? The Nami who has a heal for sustain, CC for peel and engages, AA steroid for more damage, and MS buff for disengage/engage? Or the Ezreal who has damage and self peel and relies on items to assist his team outside of the damage he provides? In the end, Nami is definitely more fitting to the generally held definition of a support than Ezreal. Good points. I agree > > That's why most people see off meta as a troll pick. It's not the **M**ost **E**ffective **T**actic **A**vailable (hence term "meta"). I didn't actually know what META meant till I read this. Cool. One counter point, who determines what META is and how would they determine it without testing out "weird" champions in certain roles? > When given the option to pick a champion custom tailored for the role, people expect such champions. I'm actually a big fan of off-meta picks because they add variety to the game, but most players don't share my viewpoint. That's why Riot wants you to clear strategies beyond the generally accepted with your teammates before playing. I didn't really consider this too much before and thought Ezreal was a more accepted as just another poke support. He doesn't have CC without items so I didn't think I would have to indicate to my teammates that I have less peel than most other supports. > In a team game, you will always have to work with your random teammates and that means communicating effectively with them so they understand what you are doing and why you are doing it so that the experience is enjoyable by all. That's just the way League is now. I don't know what the games look like that you play but when the chat is used in my games its typical to flame someone. There's a lot of arguing back and forth once you put a reply out even if it's a genuine attempt at helping the team succeed. I've seen the advice given in general to be to mute people and play on and do the best you can. Which is what I did in both games cited for my suspension.
: First of all, you ABSOLUTELY should communicate if what you're doing is non-standard. Why? Because this is a team-game and anything non-standard you do requires your teammates to be willing and able to adjust around that. So communication is absolutely necessary. If I want to do a kill lane bot with Panth/Darius, I don't just insta-lock Darius as support. I ask the bot lane if he'd be willing to play panth so we can do a kill lane, and if my team is willing to try playing for an early win around us. If they say no, then I either dodge(as it was MY idea) or I pick something closer to standard for my role. But also... I have a very important question: Did you buy(and keep) a support item and always have control wards either in play or in your inventory after the first ~10 minutes of the game? If not, then you weren't actually supporting.
Thank you for your comments. > First of all, you ABSOLUTELY should communicate if what you're doing is non-standard. But, who determines what not standard is? Before reading and investigating I thought Ezreal was just another poke support. > But also... I have a very important question: Did you buy(and keep) a support item and always have control wards either in play or in your inventory after the first ~10 minutes of the game? If not, then you weren't actually supporting. You can see in the game history I started a support item both games. In one game I upgraded then later sold it & I did not upgrade it in the other game. As for control wards, no, I didn't purchase any. I agree it's something I need to work on buying more often in my games. Is it your position that every support who doesn't buy control wards in every single game should be punished with suspensions and/or bans because they "weren't actually supporting"?
Alzon (NA)
: Every single Ezreal Support I’ve ever seen has gotten fed. Every one of them. However, most of them end up losing because his team is essentially 4v5 in fights. He’s basically a KS machine with no farm, therefore only half as strong as he should be, so he just provides a bit of poke damage throughout the game and nothing else. I believe the ruling is correct. Playing any support with the intention of taking gold from the carry and using that gold for nothing is a punishable offense.
Interesting view point...thank you for your comments. > Every single Ezreal Support I’ve ever seen has gotten fed. Every one of them. However, most of them end up losing because his team is essentially 4v5 in fights. He’s basically a KS machine with no farm, therefore only half as strong as he should be, so he just provides a bit of poke damage throughout the game and nothing else. Have you seen an a lot of Ezreal support in your games? Cool! How many times have you played with one? > I believe the ruling is correct. Playing any support with the intention of taking gold from the carry and using that gold for nothing is a punishable offense. So if I'm understanding you correctly you would advocate for banning anyone playing a poke support like: **Velkoz**, **Brand**, **Zyra**, **Morgana**, **Lux**, **Sona** if they happen to take one kill at one point from their ADC if the result of the game is not win?
Raoul (EUW)
: Why are you people still playing tha game if you hate it that much?
It's not that we hate the game we just dislike how Riot chooses to implement some of it's punishments or lack there of.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Aphrolift,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=xg6jTAAE,comment-id=001c0000,timestamp=2018-11-26T04:04:17.469+0000) > > Thanks for the support. > > This last comment from Riot leads me to believe this will not be overturned: > "After reviewing your games with my team, we won't be lifting this suspension. Let me know if you need anything else!" Ask them to explain why they won't be reviewing it and share with them the video with Diana using 6 wits ends and the Amumu/Malphite bot lane.
I've pretty much conceded on getting the banned overturned. I don't want a Riot employee to get angry at me for linking them to their own promotional video and upgrading my ban to a permaban. I'll be back to play Ezreal support after my suspension ends sometime. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Il4VX-R4dsQ
: How the fuck are you getting banned for off meta picks when literally Riot's advertising catchphrase this Preseason is "Is this meta?" Like, the hypocrisy is real.
: > 1) This isn't a high elo game. Hang on.... > 2) If you could watch this video for about 70 seconds at around the 18:15 minute mark: > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcBx0MOWz-E > > Maybe a high elo player saying similar things will help out more. So it's not a high elo game, yet you're still taking tips from a Challenger player while still being in the wrong elo? Second, how old is that video? We're talking about a simple 450 gold investment, not 800. Third, not all situations will turn out to be like the one in the video, who apparently has 2 tanks in his team, unlike your team in Game 1. There WILL be times where one of you will get caught out due to the lack of warding clearing/placements, and that one small simple mistake will cost your game. > This really isn't the issue. I feel very adamantly that majority of my buys and corresponding timings had good reasons and rationals. If you disagree with me & you want to report me, should I be punished for this? I'm really not saying as to whether if you build off-meta and you deserved the ban or not. All I'm saying is that one simple Support item is seriously crucial to your team's goal in winning games. I honestly don't really care w/e the hell you're building as long as you have that one simple upgraded Support item with you. > How do you farm or even stand in exp range vs a Thresh/Twitch? You have multiple ranged abilities to farm with, assuming you took Manaflow Band with you or at least purchased Lost Chapter. And Thresh's Q is still blockable by minions & will most likely forced to Flash+E for the kill. Even if either of them come near you, you can punish them back with W/E+Q. Literally none of them has dashes/blinks to dodge it. > Would you take creeps from the lane that would otherwise die to your tower or their creeps? Farming under tower is already a thing in any lane-losing matches. You'll just have to deal with it. Even Ezreal has to experience the same shit, and don't tell me "oh i can throw Q to minions". Brand does too. > Would you use your spells to try and get creeps or poke the enemies? Unlike Ezreal who desperately needs heavy AD item investments to do anything, Brand in early levels without a lot of AP items actually hurts a lot. Use that to pressure them off whenever you go for minion cs, even if it means losing one less minion off without poking them. > If you did use spells at any point, how do you handle tower dives if you're out of mana? Maybe stop spamming your abilities willy-nilly without thinking & learn to conserve your mana. Also ask your jungler to come sometimes to assist you. > Let's say you were able to get some farm somehow in this lane, would you build ap damage? Upgrade your Support item once, then build full AP. Same concept as your Ezreal. I'm fine with you building AD, just upgrade your Support item once.
> So it's not a high elo game, yet you're still taking tips from a Challenger player while still being in the wrong elo? Second, how old is that video? We're talking about a simple 450 gold investment, not 800. Third, not all situations will turn out to be like the one in the video, who apparently has 2 tanks in his team, unlike your team in Game 1. There WILL be times where one of you will get caught out due to the lack of warding clearing/placements, and that one small simple mistake will cost your game. Did you even watch the 70 seconds of the video? I'm just saying as he has said that there are sometimes reasons to build a damage item over vision. > I'm really not saying as to whether if you build off-meta and you deserved the ban or not. All I'm saying is that one simple Support item is seriously crucial to your team's goal in winning games. I honestly don't really care w/e the hell you're building as long as you have that one simple upgraded Support item with you. And all I'm saying is that maybe just maybe there's a good reason for not building a "simple upgraded support item" in some games. [Game 1](https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/2897760841/78752420?tab=overview) is a pretty good example of this. > You have multiple ranged abilities to farm with, assuming you took Manaflow Band with you or at least purchased Lost Chapter. And Thresh's Q is still blockable by minions & will most likely forced to Flash+E for the kill. Even if either of them come near you, you can punish them back with W/E+Q. Literally none of them has dashes/blinks to dodge it. What? Where are you going to get 1300 gold from? You realize they are hitting level 2 first and hitting level 3 first and you're in a 1v2 lane right? > Farming under tower is already a thing in any lane-losing matches. You'll just have to deal with it. Even Ezreal has to experience the same shit, and don't tell me "oh i can throw Q to minions". Brand does too. You're assuming they shove the wave and it gets to your tower. What if it freezes in the middle of the lane? So your plan is generally to farm with Q and try and stay safe? Which character performs better Ezreal or Brand? > Unlike Ezreal who desperately needs heavy AD item investments to do anything, Brand in early levels without a lot of AP items actually hurts a lot. Use that to pressure them off whenever you go for minion cs, even if it means losing one less minion off without poking them. Wait this is a different plan. Now you want to poke them. What do you do when you run out of mana? > Maybe stop spamming your abilities willy-nilly without thinking & learn to conserve your mana. Also ask your jungler to come sometimes to assist you. How do you poke them, cs with your q and "conserve mana"? > Upgrade your Support item once, then build full AP. Same concept as your Ezreal. I'm fine with you building AD, just upgrade your Support item once. Same question as before: If I choose to take a different build path than you one I think is better should it be a bannable offense?
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C9 Aphrolift

Level 85 (NA)
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