: He's donezo anyway. He's not coming back. It's not a permanent ban? Doesn't matter -- he won't be back. 1) Nobody will want the wife-beater on their team. No brand will destroy its image that way. This isn't the NFL and we aren't NFL fans -- we are responsive to that sort of thing. NFL fans are religiously devoted to their teams and brand loyalty is fierce there. Regardless of what Zirene said, that's not a good thing. That religious brand loyalty the NFL has is what lets wife-beaters and rapists stay in the NFL. The brands know fans will stay regardless. We don't have that in e-sports. We don't have the religious brand loyalty that people are willing to commit violence over. We don't have the testosterone-fueled fans who think that's acceptable. We won't tolerate that -- just look at the comments. "Only 20 months for beating his girlfriend", the fans want it to be permanent. Any team that picks him up when he comes back would lose fan support. 2) He'll come back at 25 -- old in gamer years. His best years of play are behind him. He'll come back a husk of what he was, having no synergy with anyone and being used to the solo queue environment. It'll require a complete shift that he won't have the time for. By the time he's allowed to play again, comes back, gets a team, melds with that team, sheds his solo queue habits he'll pick up over his two year ban, and is a viable force on the Rift again? He'll be old enough that his mechanics and reflexes will have deteriorated and he won't be good enough to play at the highest level any more. He's gone. Good riddance.
Or he comes back like Jensen or IWillDominate and becomes the face of a brand. Plus he didn't actually hit anyone, he just made death threats. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: Oh hey its the idiot that said NA will be the most dominant region LMAO. You're right, what you said is pretty irrelevant and retarded just like your last remarks. The only relevant information is NA is inferior and garbage.
> [{quoted}](name=Mazacardo,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=APgqrjrx,comment-id=00080000000100000001,timestamp=2017-11-04T02:23:48.492+0000) > > Oh hey its the idiot that said NA will be the most dominant region LMAO. You're right, what you said is pretty irrelevant and retarded just like your last remarks. The only relevant information is NA is inferior and garbage. Oh hey it's some random person who is mocking me for an optimistic remark that I made. Sad to see neck beards, you'll come out of the cave one day I believe in you.
MysterQ (NA)
: SSG > SKT > RNG = WE
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=gfIhXhue,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-27T15:49:33.178+0000) > > SSG > SKT > RNG = WE We will see.
Rioter Comments
NewbieY (NA)
: I really really cannot believe you are being serious. You are the kind of people who never get to know or experience something yet you somehow have a strong opinion because you heard someone talking about it once. I doubt you even remotely know what Nazism really is. But I hope you are happy within your little bubble of ignorance. After all, we are all just mere humans.
> [{quoted}](name=NewbieY,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=APgqrjrx,comment-id=0008000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-24T03:54:36.977+0000) > > I really really cannot believe you are being serious. You are the kind of people who never get to know or experience something yet you somehow have a strong opinion because you heard someone talking about it once. I doubt you even remotely know what Nazism really is. But I hope you are happy within your little bubble of ignorance. After all, we are all just mere humans. Are you saying that Communism is viable? Look at the previous Communist nations. We've got: Vietnam, Cuba, Russia, Ethiopia, Somalia, Madagascar, Grenada, North Korea, Lao, China, Afghanistan, Aragon, Albania, Angola, Benin, Bulgaria, Catalonia, Congo-Brazzaville, Czechoslovakia, East Germany, Hungary, Kampuchea, Mongolia, Mozambique, Poland, Rojava, Shinmin, Romania, Yugoslavia, and Zapatista territories. That's around 30-ish countries/territories/client states that identified as Communist in Earth's history, would you like to know how many are left in the world today? Here's a hint, not many. There are five: China, Lao, Vietnam, Cuba, and North Korea. Out of all of those the only one that stands out is China, because it has adopted a Capitalist market and has abandoned the true goal of Communism. In all aspects Communism is a failed ideology, both on paper and especially in practice. Most Communist states start as Socialist and devolve into either Fascism or a single party "republic". And to answer you're whole 'you don't know what National Socialism is' yes I do. National Socialism is a government ran by a single party, ran by a dictatorship, that pushes for racial segregation and a directed economy fixated towards benefiting the people. A good example of their directed economy would be the four year plan enacted by Goering to transform Germany from one of the weakest Western nations in Europe into an international power. Another would be the Volkswagen, People's(Folk's) Car, which was directed at creating an affordable car for the average German citizen to be able to navigate the inner cities and country as a whole. It is also worth mentioning that the Germans during this time period created the Autobahn as a means for military transportation and civilian transportation that would later heavily influence the highway systems we see in modern day. I recommend you read _Communism With The Mask Off And Bolshevism In Theory And Practice_ by Joseph Goebbels, and also _Manifesto For Breaking Financial Slavery To Interest_ by Gottfried Freder if you would like to look at what the National Socialists think of economics. Or you could just listen to whatever libtard media outlet that wants to say "Duh Natzees keeld Jews four ecornomicz" ignoring the fact that the Nazi-Sozis actually were a thriving nation before World War 2 and had a solid economic plan. Sure the holocaust happened but that doesn't mean that that's a free pass to ignore the ideology as a whole. Just like Communism, if you read the Communist manifesto you will find out just how bs the whole thing is without having to look any further, but if you do decide to look further it just confirms any suspicion that it is a failed ideology. Long story short, I know about as much as anyone should know about forms of government, but less than those who have an expertise (a college education) in that subject. No I don't think Communism, National Socialism, Capitalism, or any other form of modern market is perfect nor do I agree with all the practices carried out by the governments/nations who use them. But I will say that Communism has proven itself to be the absolute worse ideology comparatively to any other world ideology. Even Theocracy has Communism beat, and that's saying something. Lastly, if we want to get personal, I am definitely not a Liberal in the modern bastardized sense of the term. With that being said I am also not a Conservative of any means, especially the modern version which is much closer to the original Liberals. I will say that I am a Moderate, who does not vote based on party but based on policy. If your policy is to restrict and control the populace, like what you'll find in Socialism, than chances are I'm not voting for you. If you think that Anarchy is viable, I'd rather not acknowledge your existence let alone vote for you. But if you are sensible and build populist policy that benefits the people above all else, and promotes national pride, chances are you have my vote. If that means I don't starve in some hellhole of a country, so be it. If that means I don't experience what it's like to be in extreme poverty (i.e. homeless) than so be it. A little ignorance allows for the upper lower, middle, and upper classes to stay wealthy. Whether or not we live in a bubble is purely up to the individual, I for one have heard and seen evidence from both sides of the spectrum to know that both sides are filled to the brim with failed logic and idiocy. And yes, this is an article for a video game that has absolutely nothing to do with what we're talking about (which started as a sarcastic remark).
NewbieY (NA)
: Genuine question: Did you experience Communism first hand? Are you Chinese or maybe you escaped from North Korea? Anything can be good or bad, M'kay.
> [{quoted}](name=NewbieY,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=APgqrjrx,comment-id=00080000000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-20T22:23:48.762+0000) > > Genuine question: Did you experience Communism first hand? Are you Chinese or maybe you escaped from North Korea? Anything can be good or bad, M'kay. Genuine Answer: No, I prefer not starving to death and living in a country with a very high standard of living. So no, I haven't experienced China first hand. Communism is worse than Nazism M'kay.
: So, SKT's group stage performance was abysmal, yet they still dumpstered C9. And C9 is going to win Worlds, with a performance even worse than abysmal? NA fanboy logic
> [{quoted}](name=Captain Tea,realm=EUW,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=3Esrie3T,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-20T06:56:56.069+0000) > > So, SKT's group stage performance was abysmal, yet they still dumpstered C9. And C9 is going to win Worlds, with a performance even worse than abysmal? > NA fanboy logic Considering SKT lost to AHQ, and were on track to lose twice against EDG, yes it was abysmal. As goes C9 winning worlds, I don't know if you have this thing called a sense of humor but it really comes in handy when reading what I wrote. Anyone who thinks C9 can beat SSG is being very optimistic.
Rioter Comments
: I love how NA has 2nd most votes.
> [{quoted}](name=Abzan Lord,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=o8Ljdov1,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-18T21:18:23.400+0000) > > I love how NA has 2nd most votes. Same lol
NewbieY (NA)
: Not "a real country"?! Hahahahahah eh I hope you are joking
> [{quoted}](name=NewbieY,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=APgqrjrx,comment-id=000800000001,timestamp=2017-10-18T23:21:58.883+0000) > > Not "a real country"?! Hahahahahah eh I hope you are joking No, no I wasn't. Communism is bad, M'kay.
Eetheart (NA)
: Just how ignorant are you allowed to be? Oh Americans.
> [{quoted}](name=Eetheart,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=APgqrjrx,comment-id=000800000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T13:35:00.126+0000) > > Just how ignorant are you allowed to be? Oh Americans. U needs tah learn yourself a lil somethin somethin bfor youins talks bout Muricans. Communism is bad, M'kay.
MysterQ (NA)
: Why Does C9 Always Get Last Day??
Obviously it's scripted.
: I imagine he probably has a shelf in his room that just has a bunch of energy drink cans stacked up in a pyramid. And THAT is where his trophy will go.
> [{quoted}](name=Mazariamonti,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=o8Ljdov1,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-10-18T03:30:34.244+0000) > > I imagine he probably has a shelf in his room that just has a bunch of energy drink cans stacked up in a pyramid. And THAT is where his trophy will go. The Dream.
: C9 will win Worlds after 3 reverse sweeps in a row, it has to happen right?
> [{quoted}](name=Phantom Pancake,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=o8Ljdov1,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-10-18T01:02:11.267+0000) > > C9 will win Worlds after 3 reverse sweeps in a row, it has to happen right? While playing Jungle Amumu, and mid lane Veigar? Yes.
Yuvn Ti (NA)
: i am such a big fan of c9 but we is overperforming, c9 seems wishy-washy, and then they have semi's vs longzhu or ssg. RIP.
> [{quoted}](name=Amort,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=OfbPzoEA,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-18T00:55:28.556+0000) > > i am such a big fan of c9 but we is overperforming, c9 seems wishy-washy, and then they have semi's vs longzhu or ssg. RIP. Lol I was joking.
Yuvn Ti (NA)
: Finally I can say this in confidence
Or maybe Cloud 9 wins this year, and all the asian teams lose? Food for thought.
: Why no Imagine Dragons? Why can't you spend money on shows anymore Riot? I mean you're already selling the NA LCS off, so what the hell are you actually doing with the 100+ mill. you're getting? NO MORE CHEAP MUSIC!
And more importantly, why aren't you hosting Worlds in a real country? Communism is terrible, didn't you know?
: League of Legends Live: A Concert Experience
Why no Imagine Dragons? Why can't you spend money on shows anymore Riot? I mean you're already selling the NA LCS off, so what the hell are you actually doing with the 100+ mill. you're getting? NO MORE CHEAP MUSIC!
Rioter Comments
: He’s an IMT fan... it’s not really fanboyism at that point.
> [{quoted}](name=IncrediPhiLL,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=riPHrJ0Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-15T11:47:14.641+0000) > > He’s an IMT fan... it’s not really fanboyism at that point. Actually, I'm an NA fan. I don't care if it was Team Coast at the tournament, I would put them as winning worlds.
: lmao "stylistically mismatched" thats so stupid. They had the easiest group and they lost, they simply played bad. And I literally said " I think C9 has a hard group though "
http://pickem.lolesports.com/share/series/4/user/4320624/my-picks
Rioter Comments
: 10 thoughts: Believe in NA
Good news everyone, my pick-ems aren't that bad. 8-8, so I'm right about 50% of the time. http://pickem.lolesports.com/share/series/4/user/4320624/my-picks
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=0012000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T23:08:00.515+0000) > > The first and last point you made are entirely personal issues that you would only know if you knew the players, something that I highly doubt that you do. If I see someone crying, do I need to know them to know that they are upset .?. Of course not ... You can actually understand what people think/do and how they react in particular situations and extrapolate their characteristics out of what you observe ... try it one day, it is useful :) > As goes your second statement you're telling me that for the last three years the exact same problem has happened to 4 different teams from the same region, with literally thousands of people telling them the same bullshit excuses as to why they lost, and they didn't do anything to fix it? I find that incredibly hard to believe. Is it so hard to believe your own eyes .?. You, yourself said that it actually happened ... you can enter a state of denial if you like, but hey, that is not really my problem ... > I think that the reason why the week 2 flop is reoccurring has more to do with other teams being able to completely abandon their original strategies and make up a whole new one in the span of a week. which is exactly what I said and you disagreed with :p you just didn't use the word "adapt" ...
Abandoning a team's original strategy and completely adopting a new one isn't actually adapting, if anything it's the exact opposite. If by adapting you mean throwing away everything for something different, than yes they 'adapted'. Anyways, moving on from that big bulk of bullshit, my pick-ems actually turned out rather nice. 33 points, could've been better but then again so could have NA in week 2. http://pickem.lolesports.com/share/series/4/user/4320624/my-picks
: Tell me, did TSM and IMT get out of groups? NA team winning worlds? NA close to Korea? yea there is nothing you can do to change my mind
At the end of the day the #1 seed from every region except for Korea has been eliminated (except for EDG but that's most likely going to still happen). So really this looks like another throw away double Korean finalist again. And are you happy about that? Are you truly happy that every single year no region comes close to even challenging them? I'm sorry for actually having hope that my home region could at least preform this year. I still do, and next year (if C9 doesn't do much this year) I will bring back the exact same amount of enthusiasm for NA, regardless of the results.
: Tell me, did TSM and IMT get out of groups? NA team winning worlds? NA close to Korea? yea there is nothing you can do to change my mind
Same, NA is better than Korea. Nothing you can do to change my mind. Why? Because C9 is going to win worlds.
: NO. EDG and AHQ are the weakest teams C9 can get. C9 would not stand a chance if they were in group C or D. NA is just not as good as other regions. All NA teams failed to make adaptations coming out of first week. Their ban/pick remained same while their opponents developed new strategies against them. This is not a game where you can wait 40 mins with late team comp and win the game with a big team fight, like TSM did in every NA playoff games. This is worlds, not NA LCS, your opponents are much stronger and learns fast. They will stomp you in early game if you want to just wait the game out. The fact that IMT and TSM went 1-7 in week 2 does not surprise me at all. Every year NA teams are like this, hoping their opponents are like the teams they face in LCS finals, looking great in week 1 but fails to adapt in week 2. NA makes it to finals? what a joke.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T19:34:35.565+0000) > > If you somehow have a miracle answer please let me know, because chopping it up to "NA just sucks" is underrating one of the best regions on Earth. #NABiasIsStillBetterThanLPLAndLCKBias #GoToSleep Simple answers, no bias needed: - They cannot handle the pressure ... the more you hype them, the more you make them perform less ... the closer they come to their goal, the less easy it is to actually get there. - Their tactics are not all that flexible ... they try what worked in week 1, but they fail because the other teams that lost, adapt. - They think very highly of themselves after week 1 and get sloppy ... once they lose a couple of games in week 2, they tilt and it is "game over"
The first and last point you made are entirely personal issues that you would only know if you knew the players, something that I highly doubt that you do. As goes your second statement you're telling me that for the last three years the exact same problem has happened to 4 different teams from the same region, with literally thousands of people telling them the same bullshit excuses as to why they lost, and they didn't do anything to fix it? I find that incredibly hard to believe. I think that the reason why the week 2 flop is reoccurring has more to do with other teams being able to completely abandon their original strategies and make up a whole new one in the span of a week. That's what really is plaguing NA, it has nothing to do with adapting, emotions, or mindset, it has everything to do with the fact that NA teams run the same strategy every week hoping that their flaws will eventually go away through better play just to be surprised by new things other regions throw at them. And that's what I have to say aboot that mkay. #Tryharder
: ***
Google what ad hominem is, maybe then you can construct a real argument.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T06:51:58.255+0000) > > Also it is worth mentioning that the LPL still sucks, just look at how RNG lost to G2 (a wildcard team). lmfao ok i take back my comforts you don't deserve them. RNG lost to G2 because they were being too arrogant but it does not change the fact that both WE and RNG are the first seeds in their group. And pathetically TSM was depending on WE's performance to play their last game. So no matter TSM gets out of the group stage or not, that's because WE gave them another chance. Also, I'm actually hoping C9 to get out of the group stage instead of EDG so that either LCK or LPL will crash them in quarterfinals and make people like you to realize the huge gap between LCK/LPL and NA. #wakeup #NAsucks #LOL
"RNG lost to G2 because they were being too arrogant" That's as if I said that IMT and TSM both lost all their games because they were too arrogant. That's as if I said that the FW lost all their games because they were too arrogant, or better yet 1907. Arrogance is not a real argument for why a team lost, because all teams can say they're arrogant if they lose. Secondly if C9 loses tomorrow I'm still going to call NA the best region at worlds. Why? Because I hate people like you saying that NA is worse than China, even after NA beats China going into the first week. Plus, if we're looking at week 1, NA was able to compete with Korea. To deny that is to completely ignore half of group stages. Why are they constantly losing in week 2 of groups? I have no idea. The score for NA at worlds for week 2 at groups since 2015 is a collective 4-22, where as week 1 stats paint a completely different story. How can a team that almost beats Longzhu one weak lose all their games the next? How can a Cloud 9 that got a pentakill against Huni's undefeated Fnatic, and go 3-0 in the first weak of groups, lose every single consecutive game after that? If you somehow have a miracle answer please let me know, because chopping it up to "NA just sucks" is underrating one of the best regions on Earth. #NABiasIsStillBetterThanLPLAndLCKBias #GoToSleep
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2017-10-14T06:51:58.255+0000) > > Also it is worth mentioning that the LPL still sucks, just look at how RNG lost to G2 (a wildcard team). oops i need to rephrase now. Despite the fact that WE spared TSM another chance, they still lost... #NAstillstucks ;D
I mean TSM was NA's weakest team going into worlds, in my pick-ems I had them in third place just because I know how bad TSM is as a team. The fact that they're so dominant in NA domestically is nothing more than a miracle in my eyes, anyone that knows me knows that I have never been a TSM fan. So is the fact that TSM lost groups a sign that NA as a region is bad? Hell no, the fact that IMT lost is a sign that NA as a region is bad. GET YOUR ARGUMENT AGAINST NA RHGIT!>!>!>>!>!
12 30AM (NA)
: hello salty NA fanboy? are you still alive? hahahahahhaahhahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha
...I'm not salty, this is just a game.
: I'm still here, and I still think C9 wins worlds 2017. In fact I think that now that they are the last hope of NA they will 3-0 SKT and LZ. Why? Because NA Bias will never die. Even after all NA teams get eliminated I will be rooting for C9 2017.
Also it is worth mentioning that the LPL still sucks, just look at how RNG lost to G2 (a wildcard team).
: Where are the people who thought NA would have chance to defeat LPL or LCK?? TOLD YOU ITS GONNA BE IN 51 YEARS!!
I'm still here, and I still think C9 wins worlds 2017. In fact I think that now that they are the last hope of NA they will 3-0 SKT and LZ. Why? Because NA Bias will never die. Even after all NA teams get eliminated I will be rooting for C9 2017.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-13T05:07:16.974+0000) > > {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} So what if I&#x27;m crying over spilled milk that means relatively nothing to someone who isn&#x27;t a professional player, my region looks bad again and now my sick fantasies of watching NA become the new Korea are stomped firmly into the ground...unless C9 and/or TSM show up and beat SKT.{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} Korea, more like Freea, ami rhgit? {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} I feel bad now about laughing at you... No joking. Huges. Everyone can dream XD But LPL and LCK are really strong, they didn't even really try. And for the several times they lost, I think they just underestimated the enemies too much. We will see their true abilities in quarterfinals! Feel better buddy <3
I was joking lol. There can be two things that are fact: NA will always flop in week 2 and Korea will always go to finals.
: I swear if G2 beats Samsung and takes first in group C, I'm uninstalling and never watching worlds again! RITO FIX THE SCRIPT! {{item:3070}}{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}}
{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} So what if I'm crying over spilled milk that means relatively nothing to someone who isn't a professional player, my region looks bad again and now my sick fantasies of watching NA become the new Korea are stomped firmly into the ground...unless C9 and/or TSM show up and beat SKT.{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} Korea, more like Freea, ami rhgit? {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}}
: Week 2 always has to ruin everything. {{item:3073}}
I swear if G2 beats Samsung and takes first in group C, I'm uninstalling and never watching worlds again! RITO FIX THE SCRIPT! {{item:3070}}{{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}} {{item:3070}}
: So far the only pick in my pick-ems that is correct is LZ taking first place in group B, and now that RNG has lost to G2 (an EU team) I predict that my pick-ems are going to all be wrong...except that Korea will come out in 1st in every group because when all else fails bet on the region you hate the most but know always wins. Sad times for NA...and China..and anyone not named Korea or Europe.
Week 2 always has to ruin everything. {{item:3073}}
: 10 thoughts: Believe in NA
So far the only pick in my pick-ems that is correct is LZ taking first place in group B, and now that RNG has lost to G2 (an EU team) I predict that my pick-ems are going to all be wrong...except that Korea will come out in 1st in every group because when all else fails bet on the region you hate the most but know always wins. Sad times for NA...and China..and anyone not named Korea or Europe.
: > Sure C9 was dismantled by SKT in their game against each other, but that is to be expected when you consider that C9 had just come off an undefeated run through play-ins where they highlighted their weaknesses and became arrogant. I think that with the staff that C9 has, they could easily overcome that one loss and compete against SKT. And then you look at IMT who almost won against Longzhu. Their game against LZ was close enough to say that given another chance IMT might take a game off of the top seeded Korean team. Is that not all hypothetical???? And even in your hypothetical argument there are holes. IMT won early game against Longzhu, yes but Fnatic also won Early game against IMT almost winning the game and Longzhu smashed Fnatic in 20. How do you explain that then? There are no transitive property in league random variables can happen with BO1s. Thats why I look at history and recent results SKT and Korean teams have shown to be more dominant in all stages of the competition while NA hasn't even made it past quarters ever. In fact before C9 won a Bo5 in Play ins. NA has not won A SINGLE BO5 at worlds since SEASON 1. Thats not hypothetical thats fact. You can discount history all you want as you can use the "history doesn't matter only the past week matters." But history has shown time and time again Korea is the premier region and until that changes no argument of NA being better is ever close to being valid. These are irrelevant information you say? You're just being ignorant if you don't think these are relevant arguments as oppose to "Oh NA has done well the first week of words so........NEXT YEAR THEY ARE GOING TO BE THE BEST!" What "relevant" information do you have to support that bro? What part of Korea has dominated the past tournaments and NA has done nothing except win a few games this tournament is hypothetical? That is fact. You initiated a very controversial point that NA will surpass Korea and so far have shown nothing factual to back that up. I said Korea has lost games in the group stages of BOTH MSI(2016) and worlds(2013,2016) in the past and still dominated the rest of the way. That is not hypothetical it is also a fact. So basically you just pointed out a beyond ridiculous statement that NA will dominate with no evidence to suggest any of it. You're entitled to your opinion but its no denying how far fetched and unrealistic it is. Last year doesn't affect this year true but it still much more reliable than for you to just say NA will be the premier region based off one week of groups.
Did you even bother to read what I said about hypothetical information, or did you just skim it? Just in case you missed it, here it is again: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=00000005000100000001,timestamp=2017-10-11T20:40:25.287+0000) > > I guess if you squinted hard at it, you could say that last year&#x27;s results some how affect this year, but realistically that&#x27;s not even slightly true and is much more speculative than anything that I&#x27;ve stated here. That is if we&#x27;re talking nothing but relevant numbers here. But obviously that isn&#x27;t the case because in your own argument you used speculation. Largely irrelevant information all round, including from me, but the difference is I never claimed not to have bias or speculation and you tried to use &quot;That&#x27;s just hypothetical&quot; as an argument to discredit my own opinion. Of course it&#x27;s hypothetical and speculation influenced by my own bias towards a region! That&#x27;s the whole point of guessing who will win! That&#x27;s why pick-ems exist! It&#x27;s not to provide who had the best non-empirical analysis of worlds, it&#x27;s to see who&#x27;s bias is more based in reality. Sure this isn&#x27;t pick-ems, but the whole point of arguing is to entertain the urge to root for your favorite teams. And those out there saying &quot;If you look at the data of x,y,z games than you can clearly see that SKT etc. win in yada yada circumstances&quot; but realistically that is nothing more than an educated guess on how a team will preform. Remember that every team at worlds is formed by people, and people will always make mistakes. In theory and in practice any team can win worlds, except for those already mathematically eliminated. If you want 0 bias, 0 speculation, 0 hypothetical, and only what can be 100% proven fact, all you&#x27;re going to find are the amount of wins and losses each team has and player scores. Other than that you will find absolutely nothing in regards to what makes each teams better, not without including bias anyways. Now, having read it, understand that I clearly stated that ALL analysis that includes any assumptions are by nature speculative and/or hypothetical. Once again, quoting something I said about an NA team and saying "oo it's hypothetical" has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not I am right. And if you really need a definition of what hypothetical means, let me make things easy for you: Hypothetical 1. involving or based on a hypothesis 2. imagined as an example for further thought * a hypothetical situation Think about what that means. Even if you did include non-biased (non-empirical) information in a prediction, by nature it's still hypothetical if you have any form of a hypothesis or assumptions made towards who will win. If you think any team will win worlds, it's a hypothetical statement. BY THE VERY DEFINITION OF THE WORD IT MAKES 0 DEFERENCE WHO YOU CHOOSE TO WIN WORLDS, IT IS STILL HYPOTHETICAL!!!!!!!!!!! Now that we got that out of the way, to address the other issues, you are free to disagree with me all you want about NA. At the end of the day we will just have to agree to disagree, but I do still respect your opinion because everyone is in some way justified for choosing their teams for winning (unless they're already mathematically eliminated).
: Everything you said are all just hypothetical to be honest. About C9 being arrogant, IMT have another chance etc etc. these are all hypothetical and most likely a little bit of of influence by bias. IMT has an early game lead yes but Fnatic also has an early game lead and was extremely close to winning against IMT and Fnatic got smashed in 20 min by Longzhu. I look at empirical facts and the fact is Korea has been untouchable in he last few years and NA has been probably one of the worst performing region at worlds. Korea is not overhyped lol they are just that good and their resume shows for it. I think you are way overrating NA just from a game or 2. The fact that this is the first time NA has looked decent in an international tournament makes you think they will be better than Korea.? And we only have maybe 1 or 2 matches of sample size between NA and KR this words. You know Korean teams have all lost 1 or 2 games in the first week of past worlds including SKT and in the end still smashed every region right? At this point looking just at factual evidence NA isn't close to Korea. At this point there isn't even an evidence to support if NA will ever surpass Korea. Based on a couple of BO1s? Korea has more talent and better overall infrastructure to NA its really not disputable. Like I said right now in terms of of potential I think China is the most likely to topple Korea based on the player base and how big league is over there. Jatt even said he's surprised China hasn't at least matched with Korea with their resources.
I guess if you squinted hard at it, you could say that last year's results some how affect this year, but realistically that's not even slightly true and is much more speculative than anything that I've stated here. That is if we're talking nothing but relevant numbers here. But obviously that isn't the case because in your own argument you used speculation. Largely irrelevant information all round, including from me, but the difference is I never claimed not to have bias or speculation and you tried to use "That's just hypothetical" as an argument to discredit my own opinion. Of course it's hypothetical and speculation influenced by my own bias towards a region! That's the whole point of guessing who will win! That's why pick-ems exist! It's not to provide who had the best non-empirical analysis of worlds, it's to see who's bias is more based in reality. Sure this isn't pick-ems, but the whole point of arguing is to entertain the urge to root for your favorite teams. And those out there saying "If you look at the data of x,y,z games than you can clearly see that SKT etc. win in yada yada circumstances" but realistically that is nothing more than an educated guess on how a team will preform. Remember that every team at worlds is formed by people, and people will always make mistakes. In theory and in practice any team can win worlds, except for those already mathematically eliminated. If you want 0 bias, 0 speculation, 0 hypothetical, and only what can be 100% proven fact, all you're going to find are the amount of wins and losses each team has and player scores. Other than that you will find absolutely nothing in regards to what makes each teams better, not without including bias anyways.
: Everything you said are all just hypothetical to be honest. About C9 being arrogant, IMT have another chance etc etc. these are all hypothetical and most likely a little bit of of influence by bias. IMT has an early game lead yes but Fnatic also has an early game lead and was extremely close to winning against IMT and Fnatic got smashed in 20 min by Longzhu. I look at empirical facts and the fact is Korea has been untouchable in he last few years and NA has been probably one of the worst performing region at worlds. Korea is not overhyped lol they are just that good and their resume shows for it. I think you are way overrating NA just from a game or 2. The fact that this is the first time NA has looked decent in an international tournament makes you think they will be better than Korea.? And we only have maybe 1 or 2 matches of sample size between NA and KR this words. You know Korean teams have all lost 1 or 2 games in the first week of past worlds including SKT and in the end still smashed every region right? At this point looking just at factual evidence NA isn't close to Korea. At this point there isn't even an evidence to support if NA will ever surpass Korea. Based on a couple of BO1s? Korea has more talent and better overall infrastructure to NA its really not disputable. Like I said right now in terms of of potential I think China is the most likely to topple Korea based on the player base and how big league is over there. Jatt even said he's surprised China hasn't at least matched with Korea with their resources.
The only non-empirical analysis that can be made is that Korea is 8-1, NA is 6-3, China is 5-4, EU is 3-6, LMS is 1-5, and the two wild card teams are 1-5. Legitimately anything else stated is nothing but speculation and/or hypothetical, influenced by bias towards one region or the other. Therefore arguing that my argument is only hypothetical and speculation is irrelevant because all arguments are that way.
: IMT Xmithie: "The nerves to make a ballsy or more confident play -- that’s the thing missing for us right now."
Very well put, Xmithie is one of my favorite players and is obviously talented. Anyone who doubted his role on the teams he's played for can clearly see the difference between Dardoch's IMT and Xmithie's IMT. I'm not saying that Dardoch is bad, but he just isn't what IMT needed at the time. Xmithie is my 2nd favorite jungler, right behind Hai's amumu.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=0000000b0000,timestamp=2017-10-11T09:09:06.255+0000) > > The fact that C9 is able to capitalize on the mistakes of other teams while not having the same done to them makes them good. You can say &quot;EDG and AHQ lost those games themselves&quot; all you want but that&#x27;s just denying credit where credit is due. As goes NA not playing on the same level as any of the Korean teams or China&#x27;s Cloud 9, I again disagree. IMT showed that they are at least as good as SSG, if not better, in their game against LZ. Nearly beating the number one seed in Korea is not something to be taken lightly. Bingo. It's nothing more than denying credit where it was due. Sour grapes. And sure, credit goes to a team for almost beating a great korean team. And if it is backed up by two wins like in the case of IMT then yes credit that and IMT took care of business last week. Let's hope they can do the same or even a little bit better tonight. It's a new week. I certainly like IMT's chances. But nothing is assured for anyone. Regardless of what happens, I'll be glad as an IMT fan. We were rebuilding. And to make worlds... well everything now is just icing on the cake. Didn't even expect to be here. And here we are with a good chance to get out of groups. But credit to C9 too. They didn't do well against the Korean team but took care of business the rest of the way last week. Here's hoping they do it again. As for TSM, if IMt makes it out in second, it is in our interest for TSM not to get first. That way we have a chance at a team we know we can play with whereas if TSM comes out in first, we're probably going to see SKT or RNG...... RNG is a very tall order for Cody. And SKT is a tall order across the board.
I agree, and from one IMT fan to another I think that they have the best chance at getting to semis. That's some #IMTBias, but in all fairness the team has a very good org to support them so I'm looking forward to what they can achieve.
Rathimas (NA)
: Agree with you on the over ranking of IMT. They aren’t performing that much better than TSM and should be 1-2. C9 is clearly playing their style and it’s working. They look the best of the three NA teams so far. TSM group is the group of life because every team that wants to make it out wants to be in this group and it’s possible for every team in this group to win against everyone else. But overall it looks possible that all three NA teams make it out. The one team that might not is TSM. C9 got AHQ which people said was worst LMS team, and thankfully EDG at worlds is a thing. While IMT group looked tough at the start the dumpster fire that is FNC happened. Add in a GAM this is a pretty easy group.
You wouldn't even believe how many people want to underrate C9 and say that TSM is the best NA team at worlds.
Rathimas (NA)
: I have read most of your post on NA teams and this is one of the most biased one in a line of many. Know way in hell is RNG on par with IMT even the most devout NA fan boy wouldn’t say that. RNG looks like the best team at worlds so far. IMT barely beat a terrible FNC team. Not to mention SSG and G2 would kill to be in group B Which was deemed the group of death. Having GAM and a bad FNC makes B an easier group. Then you say WE should be a wildcard team that’s nonsense. WE isn’t dominating like people expected but are competitive and if in knockout stages can beat a Korean team. The pre tournament look at groups everyone said Group D was the group of life since every team that wanted make it out wanted this group.
: I think you're being way too optimistic about NA's chances, looking at your posts in this thread. It is good to be confident in your region, but you also have to look at the games rationally. Yes I admit C9 is good at capitalizing the mistakes of other teams, but that doesn't necessarily make them a good team. I believe you have to be proactive and dare to make plays to be considered good, otherwise you only win because the other team isn't good enough. If AHQ runs in 2v4 or 1v4 immediately followed by another 1v4, you can hardly praise C9 for capitalizing on that. Even a bronze team can win 4v1 if the enemy just mindlessly runs in. If in a soccer match you win with 1-0, because someone from the other team kicked the ball into his own goal, would this mean that the winning team is good? No. As teams become better, they will make less mistakes, therefore the chances of C9 winning greatly reduce. On multiple occassions have you said IMT almost beat LZ, but this is a bit far-fetched if you look at the match realistically. Korean teams are generally late game focused teams, so it really isn't weird that another team may have a gold/kill lead over them pre-20 minutes. LZ won with the baron they got, lets consider the standing before they took the baron. IMT were up 1.5k gold at 25 minutes and turret score was even. In no way was IMT in a prime position to close out that game. Once LZ got the baron, they closed out the game within 5 minutes, a game that was dead-even at that point. This says a lot about LZ, and even more about IMT. They got completely run over. You make NA teams out to be way better than they actually are, and you put too much focus on individual games. BO1 games are very diffent from BO3 and BO5s. Just because a team makes it out of groups doesn't mean they have a serious shot at winning Worlds. MSF have looked rather impressive in their games, and they may make it out of groups. But in no way do I expect them to have any serious chance at winning Semi-finals (and then only if they get lucky with their Quarterfinals matchup).
I think you're under estimating NA there friend. I think that after this week we will know if NA is actually good or not. If IMT does end up taking a game off LZ than we will know with absolute certainty that NA is here to compete, no questions asked.
: If TSM were 3-0 you would all over them saying how great they are.
Yes, but they aren't 3-0 and they don't have a Korean team in their group. Out of all the NA teams they are the only one to lose to a non-Korean team, and it was to a European team at that.
: To be fair Korea isn't light years ahead of the other regions especially they way they showed up on first week.That being said they always are the masters of BO3 and BO5 also are favorites to win the whole thing but this year there is the possibility of at least one Korean teams not make it to semis-yes that's you SSG.I think all regions have their strong points and weak points.Just the Korean are very much tilt proof and the possibility of comebacks from them is very possible just like that SKT-EDG games.That is why Korea is always slightly better because they instill fear in other regions of always making a comeback that the other teams kinda either rush to their demise like EDG did or play very passive thus giving the Koreans an opening.When they do get that opening its all over for the opposite team cause it makes them be very indecisive of their plays thus the late game comeback haunts them for life.
I agree, and I hope that NA can over come those issues. Maybe, just maybe, we don't have an all Korean finals again this year, but I have my doubts.
: > [{quoted}](name=C9 Magnus,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=wOWcg2Xo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-10T18:04:16.812+0000) > > C9 and IMT have the two hardest groups and are thriving. EDG and AHQ are not weak teams yet C9 was able to make them look like wild card teams ... Korea is no longer a guarantee anymore, and if C9 and/or IMT cleaned up their play we could very well see an NA win over the &quot;most dominant&quot; region. Sorry, but when someone claims C9 is a strong team I just can't help but disagree. You severely overestimate the strength of C9. C9 didn't make anyone look like a wildcard team, EDG and AHQ made themselves look like a wildcard team. AHQ initiated unfavorable fights while they could just back off, handing over free kills in the early game. They also teleported after objectives were already taken, giving up any pressure they had. C9 didn't do anything this game, AHQ lost it themselves. EDG is just playing bad in general (Scout was overextending constantly in their game vs C9), this has nothing to do with how C9 played. C9 got completely dismantled by SKT, whereas the other two teams had a better shot. It seems history is going to repeat itself, and follow a similar pattern as last Worlds. SKT is going to claim the #1 seed and C9 gets the #2 seed for free, because the better team (EDG) isn't showing up. Last year C9 got a free pass out of group stage because FW lost twice to iMay (arguably wildcard level), and couldn't close out one of their games versus C9 (which showed the inability of FW, not how good C9 is). C9 always seem to have luck on their side. They hardly ever make plays themselves, they completely rely on other teams making mistakes against them. And when teams face C9, they all of a sudden seem to have forgotten how to play. TSM and IMT are playing a lot better than C9, and if they make it out of groups, I see those two teams advancing further than C9 (depending on knock-out matchups). Though in all honestly, NA making it to the finals is a long shot. They aren't playing on the level of any of the 3 Korean teams or RNG.
The fact that C9 is able to capitalize on the mistakes of other teams while not having the same done to them makes them good. You can say "EDG and AHQ lost those games themselves" all you want but that's just denying credit where credit is due. As goes NA not playing on the same level as any of the Korean teams or China's Cloud 9, I again disagree. IMT showed that they are at least as good as SSG, if not better, in their game against LZ. Nearly beating the number one seed in Korea is not something to be taken lightly.
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C9 Magnus

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