Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 13
Can some less popular under-performing champs get some love Quinn feels useless everywhere
: [flashback to quinn rework :(](https://boards.pbe.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/champions-gameplay-feedback/PE1LJTOM-quinn-pbe-feedback-thread)
What are you talking about? We got so many "ok, we'll listen to the playerbase" changes with the Quinn rework. Between 5.20 and 5.22 We got our blind back, W passive to actually be worth something, higher ratios on just about everything, harrier to deal actually good damage and a ton of bug-fixes especially on E. Riot was very clear that the old ult could not stay, but they made sure everything else was to our liking
: That is some impressive thread necromancy. Props.
I never go on the boards unless a thread gets linked on reddit. I only saw the reply then :<
: "other highly mobile" - Xayah Then sites Trist and Cait as alternatives.... you know both Trist and Cait have more mobility than Xayah, right? Please tell me you know that.
Giant movespeed boosts are mobility too. Xayah gets a massive speed boost on her W, instant invulnerability that lets her reposition on her R. Yes, they're not able to go over walls like Trist's W, but they're fast and aggressive, while trist W has a LONG startup and flight time, making it a slow and strategic tool. Sure, Xayah's the least mobile champ on the first list, but she fits the category of aggressive mobile 525 range ADC with high AD ratios on their abilities, that build raw AD and Arpen instead of crit and attack speed. Champs like Trist, Twitch and Cait are distinctly slower, which is what Crit ADCs should be.
: There are a few issues we see with Crit items being effective against tanks and less useful against squishies post the changes. 1. Hitting tanks as your optimal DPS pattern isn't as exciting as finding opportunities to go take out their backline. 2. The tank passive ended up being much better in Pro play compared to regular play, with the result being that Crit Marksmen were more useful in Pro compared to normal play (which then makes them less satisfying in regular play). 3. Satisfaction with split damage numbers (true and physical) is lower.
"Hitting tanks as your optimal DPS pattern isn't as exciting as finding opportunities to go take out their backline." So? People who want to have "exciting" gameplay can play AD Casters like Lucian, Xayah, Ezreal and other highly mobile burst-damage adcs. I don't play Trist or Cait for "exciting" gameplay, I play them for consistent damage. That's the point of crit hypercaries.
: Tooltips Update
Oh man, the reworked Ezreal tooltip is amazing. It kinda makes you realize how unimportant it was to know "oh hey 79 damage came from my AD" Like, you only need to know the total damage and ratios, and that's what this gives. The individual damage sources don't matter since all the damage gets combined. One question though: How will you distinguish between Bonus ratios and Total ratios?
: For once, let's blame Ghostcrawler for something he's actually responsible for!
...wait wait wait wait wait wait wait ...assassins...are taking over your games? Are you in season 3 are you bronze? Cuz Assassins ain't even IN the meta right now, with one exception: Kha jungle. People have been complaining for _years_ now that too much personal agency has been lost. That there's too much focus on teamwork and not enough on being able to carry because YOU got fed. What on earth am I reading here?
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
I have not seen a single positive comment between Here and Reddit please just admit you messed up. Making the game worse because you're too stuck on your ideal is not the way to go.
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
I honestly don't care about a single other change on this list. Don't you EVER touch Scuttles.
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
What the heck is the point of removing a scutlte crab??? Scuttle crabs are important at all stages of the game. A lot of people are talking about just the level 2/3 coinflip if you get an easy camp or not, but what about at 30 minutes when you get a small outposition on your enemies. You can't take baron, but taking crab will help control the area and make sure they don't...OH WAIT IT SPAWNED AT DRAG INSTEAD. **THAT's the kind of coinflip I'm not interested in.** Taking scuttle crab is strategic when it comes to objectives. When you have the crab, there's no sneaking objectives. Keep the map symmetrical. Keep RNG out of the game.
: Sure. Gonna talk more problem statement stuff than exact details but those'll be coming in the next couple weeks. One thing to note is that we're doing less of a giant midseason release this year. Changes will come over a couple of patches, and it'll be smaller scope - there's no Runes Reforged or Elemental Drakes in this one. The changes that are there are likely to be significant, though. Likely to see changes aimed directly at Marksmen on 8.10 or 8.11, possibly both depending when work is finished, and then possible (but definitely not guaranteed) Fighter work in a follow-up patch. We're looking at Marksmen with a few values: 1. The mere fact of getting to two items shouldn't guarantee they're the most valuable champion on a team, but getting ahead should matter a lot. 2. They need to be able to buy early items that ensure they can be fun, have responsive inputs (shoot-step-shoot is pretty unpleasant with no AS), and contribute appropriately. I take that to mean they need to get Attack Speed, potentially movement speed (though less required), and at least some punchy, powerful hits. 3. We're going to be looking for ways to play up the difference between a snowballing champion and one that's merely on the curve - that includes Fighters, Assassins, ADCs, and Mages (though we think Mages are actually more correct than the other three - if they're behind, they provide primarily utility, if they're ahead they can be great damage carries). We'll especially value any time we can hit multiple of these classes with shared items - e.g. items that help both Fighters and Marksmen, or Assassins and Marksmen. 4. Some opportunistic stuff - e.g. reducing the burst damage of very late game Infinity Edge builds to other squishy champions. This will probably mean significant reworks to Infinity Edge, Essence Reaver, Last Whisper/Lord Dominik's Regards, cost changes to things like Phantom Dancer, possibly a new item, likely buffs to some underperforming items, plus some ADC base stat changes.
Can ADCs get some actual range instead of bursty abilities? It's been 5 years since the last ADC to break 550 range (Jinx), instead y'all have focusing on mobile bursty ability-based champions rather than the heart of the class, which is ranged auto-attackers. While some burst-caster ADCs are always needed, it's become ridiculous how every new ADC must be a 525-range skirmisher more than an actual marksman
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 21
I'm extremely confused by shutdown gold being the avenue which you're attacking solo snowballing feeling inadequate. If you're solo snowballing, you're not getting shutdowns, you ARE a shutdown. That doesn't mean you'll be getting more gold when you kill your enemies, it means the enemy carry will get more gold when they finally kill you, and since the gold is mostly given to the core players on their team, that means your death gets their team back in the game more than in did before. I'm pretty sure giving shutdown gold to one person only hurts solo snowballing. It doesn't help it.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 3
Quinn's already receiving some love in 8.6, but she's also pretty dependent on Duskblade. I'm a little worried she's gonna end up net-neutral or even worse off because buffing Quinn twice in a row is never exactly popular. Will Quinn be getting Duskblade-adjustments in addition to her update?
Leylania (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=1e0vRQVI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-13T10:48:09.585+0000) > > I hate when these people leak upcoming content. It only serves to ruin Riot's intent with official spoilers. It's more fun to just ignore these and wait for the reveal. Sorry, may I ask how these people even get those informations? I mean shouldn't Riot be super strict about who knows stuff after the last big leak that basically revealed all Skins and Champs for this year?
Riot does player testing. I got to do it to test Jhin in Sept 2015, and they asked for feedback on the model for Sol (still called Ao Shin at the time) and concept art for Taric as well. We all had to sign an NDA. But some people don't care.
: Nope, only on death.
: Nerfing Quinn's early game - her single true strong point - is not the way to approach this IMO. I feel like there are better ways to mess with her power spikes. The ult changes, however, are BEAUTIFUL. I'm really happy with this and expect most of my fellow jaded Quinn appreciators to feel the same way. Crazy idea time: The only thing that needs to be done now is to switch it - _visually only_ - from Valor carrying Quinn, back to Valor. Just looks less clunky that way. She'd need a new model/texture for Heartseeker Valor, but the files for Val's animations are still in the game, as are - I assume - Valor's textures and models for all her other skins.
It's 3 AD, and the harrier buff is most powerful in the early game we'll be fine
Marisa (NA)
: I feel like some of these changes look very much like almost straight buffs, but I'm not actually sure Quinn needs major strength increases right now. According to champion.gg, Quinn's winrate top lane is one of the highest right now at ~53%. Will you be watching her performance on 8.4 and evaluating how much strength she needs for this change? I will say that the quality of life improvements are much welcomed.
Bruh what are you talking about, Quinn is in an almost unplayable state right now. There aren't even enough games on OPGG to give her a winrate. Besides, Champion.gg's been busted for over a year now. Look at Lolaytics. You'll notice Quiinn's playrate is below 1% and her winrate has WILD swings based pretty much on who's playing Quinn that day.
: When they nerfed Quinn's burst, they should have greatly increased the MS from Heightened Senses instead of increasing her attack speed. Giving back the bonus AD ratio on her Q would also be pretty nice. Because if she can't take down her target quickly/reliably there is no point in picking her. Also, not sure if it would be over the top, but I feel her W and/or Harrier should reveal stealthed units. This would give her some unique utility to help her become less feast or famine. Right now, there aren't enough champions that counter stealth, and Quinn could easily be made into one without any big changes to her kit.
They did though. It went from 20-60 flat to 20-40% At most points of the game that's 3 times as strong as it was before.
Keyru (NA)
: Please don't! We'll be asking around to see if we can do something that feels better.
In that case give us all 3 or give us a choice of which to pick, cuz the blue one is gonna be the most popular by a wide margin
Sw4de (OCE)
: https://gfycat.com/gifs/detail/BewitchedCautiousBanteng http://imgur.com/ceuG1Od Is riot ok with a jungler 3 levels behind, 2300gold behind, face tanking q, 2 e's 2 passive procs, and half a second of my ultimate, and still 100-0ing me easily? Combat smites were introduced during a time where junglers were both xp and gold starved, thats not true anymore, this is low level game, where the jungler hasn't farmed or pathed efficiently, and is still winning 1v1's against a mega fed midlaner really easily, that doesnt seem healthy for the game when a role with the highest map impact by far is also the strongest 1v1 role in the game.
The Katarina misplayed hard. Spending a whole second running away at the start while slowed, and doing actual nothing. Then waiting to ult until the second before he's gonna knock up instead of using it immediately or waiting to use it after.
: Buying Runes Between Now and Preseason
What do I get for owning 20 rune pages and all runes (well, as many as I can buy since accounts only are allowed to buy so many runes)
: Hey Meddler , Im rly frustrated about Twitchs current spot. Its about that his lategame seems too strong and his early to midgame phase feels not cool either. Any plans about shifting that in the right direction? Maybe buffing early and nerfing his lategame as compensation? I also looking forward for a modern kit gameplay update in the future for Twitch? Really frustrating he is getting banned and picked so often recently sometimes only with abusing intention by players! I would support and follow up such things with interest! {{champion:29}}
Twitch is supposed to be the weakest adc early game, and one of the strongest late game. He's in a fine spot right now. Riot are no doubt aware that he's a little strong right now, but his winrate is going down towards 50% a little more each patch, and he's not good enough to see major play in competitive
: I need something like this except for Diana ult range. Got any ideas? I need it so I can pull off the Diana R>Q combo more reliably.
Given how heights interact with range meters, this would actually be less accurate than just learning the feel of the range.
: Midseason Durability - Goals and Direction
Wasn't the whole point of the Midseason update to remove the stupid amounts of free damage tanks are getting so they're 1v1ing the carries?
: Please say new champion release soon. 7.8? Really disappointed that there hasnt been a new champion yet this year.
We did get two full reworks though. That's as big as a new champ IMO
: > Expanded Lux VO > > Reav3 talked about this a couple of days ago on Reddit in more detail, figured I'd mention it here as well for anyone that missed it. We've got a lot of new lines for Lux coming in the next patch (same voice actress who did original Lux and Elementalist Lux). That's in part a test of how much impact changing just VO has. Possible we'll do more if it goes well, though too early to say for sure. The problem is I doubt anyone is going to really care when I can sit here and list almost 10 other champions that could have benefited from it more than Lux. I don't think the community is even going to care when that time and effort could have been put on to a champion that actually needed it. {{champion:34}} {{champion:51}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:117}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:26}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:86}} and you are sitting here telling me {{champion:99}} than any of the above champions who have very old VO and don't necessarily need a VU right now, have the blandest and hardly worked on VO and personality, have new lore or a decent personality that you don't seem to care about, and you just don't seem to give a crap about to begin with. What's next, you are going to give {{champion:222}} a full VO and interactions because she is part of your top 10 most loved champions within Riot Games? Your skin Department loves them enough to give them several 1350 RP plus skins.
They only did it cuz they already had the voice actress on hand.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 7
Thoughts on Quinn? Her nerfs on the PBE were removed. Does that mean the itemization nerfs were enough? Or are we still in danger of getting gutted if we stand out too much on 7.5.
Meddler (NA)
: Well, looks like I'm bad at numbers as well as words early morning. I can't edit that thread title alas so I guess we'll be stuck with that today.
You're just too excited for The Switch
: dual monitors
Switch from Full Screen to Borderless Windowed.
: Can you guys think about spicing the less impressive recall animations up in the future as well? There are a handful of champs whose recall animations are just a dedicated idle animation. Darius is my man, but holding up his axe and staring off into the beyond isn't much better than standing still. It wouldn't take much effort to have him inspect the axe or run his hand along the blade before looking off into the distance, but it would make a world of a difference. Of course you should get the idle recalls out asap, but taking the project a step further could be some busywork for the animation crew in patches thereafter. Anyhow, at least my second-hand man Renekton is getting a new recall if Nasus and Darius aren't, and I'm still hyped! ^u^
Darius had the very first recall animation. There's HISTORY there.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: Feb 16
If you're taking stats out of the items and giving them to the champions, that feels like the opposite of fixing the problem with tanks. Not only are you making last whisper items weaker against them, but that means defensive items are worse on non-tanks. I don't see how this is supposed to nerf tanks and help struggling adcs
: I want a kinda ivern idea-esque kind of support. This support will do 0 damage. absolutely fucking 0 cant even auto attack something but has the most bad ass cc/heals/shields/team buffs/teleports etc ever made in the game.
{{champion:40}} I know it's not "literally Zero" but might as well be.
: it would prob be frustrating if a 10 hp champ 1v1s u and u cant do shit, i can think of no greater frustration
Janna doesn't seem to have any problem doing basically zero damage.
: Mid Season Tanks Update - Sejuani
Sejuani isn't a Cavalier though. KLED is a Cavalier. And he fulfills that fantasy. Sejuani is the frozen wild of the freljord personified. She's much more like a beastmaster.
Meddler (NA)
: Some follow up marksmen thoughts
Now that Twtich has fallen out of the meta hard, can we see some reversions to his recent nerfs. His performance in the pre-season was a product of the meta way more than a product of his own power. Now that he's been nerfed several times, and the meta has shifted back to a very aggressive botlane, he feels extremely underwhelming until 45 minutes.
: Twitch’s splash has mutated
As a Twitch main, I love these, but why did Twitch have to be nerfed 4 ways in one patch... Ghosblade: Gone Q: Useless W: A mess Fervor: Gutted I'd be surprised if Twitch's winrate is above 40%
Meddler (NA)
: From the pre-season patch hopefully hitting PBE tomorrow: Protobelt * Damage taken per additional bolt :: Decreased from 20% >>> 10% * AP Ratio :: Decreased from 0.35 to 0.25 Short context: Yep, we agree it's putting out too much damage, which removes what should be more of a damage versus mobility trade off.
Why not just remove the Damage taken per additional bolt all together? Make it worth like Ashe's W. That way champions use it the way it's supposed to be used, as a gap closer, not as a ***point-blank shotgun*** after they've already used their actual mobility skill to close the gap
: I understand the reasoning behind the move away from expunge, but I would like to say this: Not a single person I know that plays league calls Twitch's E Contaminate. Most of us, myself included, still call it expunge. In fact, while writing this I had to go back and correct an instance where I used the wrong name. Not only does the name roll off the tongue far better than contaminate does, but as many others have mentioned the name "contaminate" implies applying some new Damage over time effect, not the massive burst of damage that the ability actually is. whereas Expunge implies a sudden exodus of some kind. Which, while still inaccurate to the ability's current function, far more closely matches what actually happens than the current name. Additionally, an argument can be made that, although Twitch is not expunging his poison, he _is_ expunging his enemy's life. Not exactly a strong argument, but at the very least an amusing one.
I'll never call it anything but expunge, but I'll admit, it doesn't make sense. I'm kinda fine with just Spray and Pray tbh.
Meddler (NA)
: We'd like to stick with the move away from Expunge, given the E no longer expunges the passive's poison, so it directly clashes with the gameplay now. With you expunge is a cool name though certainly.
Meddler (NA)
: We have indeed been talking over the last few days about whether we should change the name of Twitch's ult back to 'Spray and Pray' as part of the Pre-Season changes to Twitch. For that discussion we've wanted to gather as much context as we could about how people feel about the two names. Surveying Twitch players after they've finished a game is part of that, as are other things like looking at forum sentiment (both when the change was made and now), talking to some Twitch mains direct etc. As well as looking at how the change has been perceived we also wanted to consider why the name was changed in the first place. Talking with the team who worked on Twitch a couple of years back they had a few goals they were looking to accomplish. Those involved concerns about 'Spray and Pray' having some misleading gameplay implications, some thematic connotations (Twitch used to have a somewhat more militaristic vibe that the update moved away from) and a few other smaller points. In terms of the survey results they're been closer to neutral than some of us had predicted going in. From what we've seen overall however players who care a lot about the ult's name tend to prefer 'Spray and Pray' noticeably more often though. 'Spray and Pray' is also still really frequently used as a name, sometimes even by players who never played old Twitch. Thematically, while it does have a bit of oddness as a name (wild machine gun firing isn't a perfect fit for how the skill functions) it does still evoke the whole 'rapidly shooting many targets all at once' of Twitch ult pretty well. Our overall conclusion is that we should change Twitch's ult back to the name 'Spray and Pray'. We do feel there are some valid concerns about it, but overall think it's a better fit with what people want and expect from Twitch than Rat-ta-ta-tat. Apologies to those who prefer the current name, can definitely understand why even if we don't feel that overall it's the right choice. One thing we are looking into (no promises of success yet, but we're trying) is whether or not we can keep the name 'Rat-ta-tat-tat' purely for Gangster Twitch, given the connection with the Tommy Gun Twitch uses on that skin. That's not something we'd normally want to do, since there's a clarity hit to different ability names on different skins. Given the details of this particular case though we figure it's potentially a good place to make an exception though, try and meet the desires of both groups to at least some degree.
> as part of the Pre-Season changes to Twitch. Explain. I keep asking in the Assassin/invis update threads, but they've been extremely scant on details. What's happening to mah boy Twitch?
Meddler (NA)
: Bad news, they've been 75g for a long time!
Statikk (NA)
: Assassins Pre-Season Class Update - Systems Tweaks and Smaller Scale Updates
How do the two Assassin-ADCs Twitch and Quinn fit into this. Those two are by far my favorite champs but they haven't much been discussed. This is especially important to this discussion because Twitch's invis is unlike any other in the game, in that it is a defensive tool as much as it is offensive, and if it becomes a eve-like camouflage then he loses what little defense options he has.
Reav3 (NA)
: Maaaayyybeee. There is a chance we see Twitch before Warwick. Only time will tell ;) There are also 2 "off the list" splashes that should be out before Twitchs, similar to the Teemo one. I'll let them be a surprise though.
Why does Twitch keep getting pushed back? He was one of the ones who suffered the most from the chinese splash merger.
zecastar (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CSDragon,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=NZK9A5NP,comment-id=001000000004,timestamp=2016-09-09T19:48:09.774+0000) > > Still, it does have the Rioty problem of "even when we admit we messed up, we have to make it clear that we never make mistakes" > > Like, nobody's happy about the Morde and Skarner updates for instance. Most people who play those champions want them reverted too. But anticipating this you give the excuse that Kog having good kit before justifies undoing the rework, not the fact Riot messed up. > > Just...set the precedent that changes being bad is reason enough to revert them. That making a mistake is reason enough to fix the mistake. Like it should be. I can understand Morde but why wouldn't they be happy with Skarner? He performs well and seems fairly interesting to me with his zones. Keep in mind I'm not a Skarner player. I'm just curious.
Because his power is loaded up in a gimmick, while still retaining the old problems he had. The zones _are_ interesting. But that doesn't mean they're good.
: Would recommend actually reading the text you quoted
Still, it does have the Rioty problem of "even when we admit we messed up, we have to make it clear that we never make mistakes" Like, nobody's happy about the Morde and Skarner updates for instance. Most people who play those champions want them reverted too. But anticipating this you give the excuse that Kog having good kit before justifies undoing the rework, not the fact Riot messed up. Just...set the precedent that changes being bad is reason enough to revert them. That making a mistake is reason enough to fix the mistake. Like it should be.
Meddler (NA)
: Twitch isn't played much at present. He's strong enough at this point though in regular ranked that we feel we need to take a bit of power off him despite that however. E base damage change has already been replaced at this point, you should see a different iteration on PBE shortly with a focus on windowing his AS steroid uptime more.
That's totally backwards though. His high winrate is because of his low playrate. There are plenty of champions that have high playrates and high winrates, like Jinx. And MF was already one of the highest winrate ADCs and she got buffed in 6.18. If Twitch had a high playrate he'd have a garbage winrate, he may not be the most mechanically complex champion, but he has to have top-tier decision making for when to unload.
: Yeh you guys have done a good job of implementing shotguns , rifles/ carbines, pistols and also miniguns. Making each gunslinger's weapons and playstyle feel unique would be awesome. Maybe give Twitch a very short super rapidfire abilitiy as he empties his tommy gun ? Will you look at any of the below champs for possible updates and hopefuly some playtime at worlds? Or these champs arnt good for Pro play? I'd love to see more than 30 champions at worlds this year =) Maybe even 50% of champions played? {{champion:84}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:53}} {{champion:42}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:59}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:72}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:86}}
Twitch uses a crossbow. You use Gangster Twitch too much.
Reav3 (NA)
: I meant we will likely start twitch after Warwicks, not during. As for the "anomaly" that was PP Taric. I know I have mentioend to you in the past that we are trying to make the time between VGU -> new skin much shorter. I can understand why at this point you want to be cautious about but it is something we want to continue doing in the future. Or at least something I will continue to bug the skins team about :)
Why is Twitch being left by the wayside? He was one of the first VU's and yet he's stuck with his horribly ugly Chinese splash arts. He should be the highest priority.
: We think that player cams are great and we plan to work with broadcast to bring them on to show player reactions when necessary. Ultimately though in the interests of maximizing the amount of space available to watch game play we decided to pull player cams as a permanent HUD element.
What exactly does this new HUD fix? The old HUD didn't have any real issues. It took up a lot of screen real-estate when nothing was going on, but when nothing's going on, that's where the most important data is. And when stuff did go on, it seamlessly faded away. I don't think there's ever been a time where I said "Dang, the HUD blocked my view". The only new thing this ads is the gold advantage, and that could be implemented a myriad of other ways.
Lakinther (EUW)
: buff jinx pls
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CSDragon

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