Scazie (EUW)
: Every change since season 4 has just homogenised champion gameplay
Not every change tho. Adc update in s5 gave marksmen more unique identities than ever before. Granted most of the radical changes ended up being undone like malzahar jg working.
: Ahri While in Ultimate does not block Cait Ulti Bug
Probably a one time bug. I've seen thresh hooks go straight through champions before.
: Generating a bounty from a cs lead as a tank and giving it to the enemy adc... imagine the horror
Isn't that just a 2 kill bounty. And like 1 kill is about 17 cs in terms of gold. Plus looks like the rest of his map is winning which is the only time you get a cs bounty. Still feels bad but that's just a comeback mechanic in action. If you got bopped bot lane and mid lane then top bounty would be a lot less.
: Pink wards actually feel tankier than quite a bit of champions right now
sobi999 (EUW)
: Her burst is anti-fun to play against with all seriousness. But i am not saying she is overpowered in any elo for that matter. If anything, riot should have delayed her burst, instead of taking this utility away from her as she now has to wait for her Q to hit before she can initiate a fight. With all the assassins out there, she really is lackluster especially in higher elos now.
> [{quoted}](name=sobi999,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RFUdz7VT,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-01-14T21:55:57.815+0000) > > Her burst is anti-fun to play against with all seriousness. But i am not saying she is overpowered in any elo for that matter. > > If anything, riot should have delayed her burst, instead of taking this utility away from her as she now has to wait for her Q to hit before she can initiate a fight. With all the assassins out there, she really is lackluster especially in higher elos now. I don't think you understand the nerf. She can still r before q hits and get the reset but she can't r before qing and get the reset. It's the reason you just see marksmen die randomly from full to her.
: Goodbye Diana we gonna miss you <3
I'm miss the highlight clips of ADC mains saying... Ok?
: Cs bounties can be highly annoying though, especially if you manage to force someone out of lane early. Just my two cents on that bit. also hi OwO
I respect that. Maybe they will lower the gold from cs bounties or something. and hi UwU
: Update on Yesterday's Capsule Pricing Error
I don't understand bhow everyone thinks they should get something free. I guarantee everyone talking about how much they support riot would have used the blue essence if given the chance. You don't want riot to give you capsules because it's unfair they got them for free, you want the capsules because you don't wanna pay money for the game and are jealous. You can be mad at the people who cheated riot but don't act like you wouldn't do the same.
øHaruø (NA)
: CS'ing Bounty isn't healthy in Low Elo.
To be real, bounties have hardly changed anything in low elo for csing. If your champion has a 30 cs lead average on the enemy team and your team is ahead, then there is someone on the enemy team you are stonger than who you can kill despite being 0/4. Also Kda isn't a factor of how strong a champ is, items and levels are what makes a champ strong so having high cs means you have your core items in most cases. Not to mention that before the cs bounty thing farming still increased the value of killing you but only back up to 300g. You could easily argue that getting a bounty for being 3/10 if you just got those last 3 kills recently as also denying comeback potential and you can get that bounty even if your team is behind. The csing bounty isn't really making any low elo games unwinnable. If you have a bounty for farming then someone on your team has to be doing well.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: >Saying Caitlyn lacks agency or lane power and is a hypercarry adc ok hear me out on this: ->they nerfed cait's early game BY SO MUCH she isn't the adc she used to be, her base ad is one of the lowest, she has the shittiest base attack speed, and also THE lowest base health thanks to all riot's changes ->they buffed headshot's damage from 50%+100% crit scaling to 50%-100% (depending on lvls) +200% crit scaling Her headshot can oneshot in late game with a trap >and then going on to list Mordekaiser as an example of a solo-carry champion that doesn't need a team My bad I'm really sorry, I just took one game as an example so it's terrible in this example I just killed the jungler when he ganked because of morde's insane base damage, but generally I dealt so much damage idk https://i.gyazo.com/7f1f317bd3cdf530a6bfac0865837b7d.png Mordekaiser might not be able to solo carry, but I felt like I had much more impact than other adcs I could heal by so much with {{item:3504}} this alone changed so much fights you can't do that with a hypercarry that is behind because of multipile ganks
Legit though, Cait is not the best example of marksmen that lack early power. Maybe something like Kog would be better.
: My early Christmas present from Riot Games
I need 1 more cait skin but the last 3 shops haven't given me it even though i play her more than any other champion percentwise. Like 30 game of cait and 3 games of veigar doesnt mean i want a veigar skin :/
: Death's dance now heals for ALL damage dealt
But{{champion:8}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3148}}
Rioter Comments
: Rush Cloth Armor, +10 armor runes, lvl 4 Zed poke combos me for 60% of my HP
I took the time to do the math on that using Orianna with no ball since you didnt post the champion. I'm assuming you were lvl 3 as if you were 4 then it wouldn't be possible unless you didnt take armor runes. The only way you actually take that much damage is if you get hit by both sides of zed q full damage, get hit by e, he has to w twice first and auto. That's not poke as much as it is getting full combo'd. I'm not sure if its the preseason really hurting you.
Joseraph (NA)
: Agreed, on top of these champs there were Ahri, Fizz, Azir, Draven, Talon, Kassadin, Riven, etc.. Whenever someone says "The damage has never been higher than in S8!!!" I really just think back to Pre-season 6 where you'd often see 8-10 Thunderlord's, and everyone, including champions who are generally weak early, like Nasus could blow you up at just about every point in the game.
I still have memories of rengar from S5-Rework jumping on top of me and all my health disappearing before i could flash. Draven was also a horror to play vs. Like my group had a strategy where we would throw 5 people at a fed Draven so he would die in exchange for 3-4 of us. Our thought process was he cant 1shot all of us at the same time.
: Losing games because weaker runes. Ya thats a strategy game lmao. Woops didnt pick the most broken shit, i deserve loss
*Sees conqueror twitch jg* Ah yes dark harvest op pls nerf.
: Just as a reminder, you won't see anyone say 'hey nice try man, you'll get them next time' if you /muteall, which you claim to do every game.
He is saying he shouldn't have to /mute all to go a game without toxicity not that he does. If he did then he wouldn't be complaining about chat toxicity.
Zertryx (NA)
: The thing is, sure there was gimmick stuff and op stuff back then too, but IT WAS STILL FUN, win or lose most the time it was enjoyable to play the game there wasn't anyone that you REALLY dreaded playing against other than a select few and they were banned within the 6 bans. But now the games so overloaded that there is like 20+ champs that just make this game feel unfun and they are either in the game or banned constantly but no matter what you gonna face these very oppressive high value characters EVERY game making the game so sloggish that even Winning feels awful because its such a struggle to do anything with how fast everything dies. This is why people are being so much more vocal the power creep has gotten ridiculous.
As someone who got their start in late S4 early S5 i can say that there were definitely more than 6 champions I dreaded. Yasuo, Zed, Fiora, Vayne, Blitz, Katarina, Leblanc and many more. Those were just as an ADC/Mid player. I can guarantee that most junglers were absolutely tilted when seeing the face of Nunu walking into their jg and q smiting the red buff away.
: > [{quoted}](name=HKT RoyalDor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U2ENMm8f,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-12-01T04:11:31.638+0000) > > That&#x27;s a bit too much work for Riot to do, considering the amount of bugs that would happen. You missed the point of the OP. He was just a way to say "Old School League was MUCH more unbalanced". And, as an old player, I can 100% confirm it.
The only thing that has changed is how people are toxic. Before it was holding queue's hostage, now its complaining about how op everything is.
: I would like an alternate game mode where it reverts league to patch 4.20
I remember old WW just blinking on top of me as an adc and dying instantly. The good old days. I remember seeing the 15 kill fiora and saying on skype, "Guys we got thi-" PENTA KILL! The good old days. I remember my Darius top lane getting solo killed multiple times by the Taric. The good old days. I remember Zed throwing a shadow over a wall and 1 shotting me without ult as adc. Not much has changed.
Meddler (NA)
: Three things are making us hesitant to do anything for Caitlyn right now: 1. When she's strong she's pretty oppressive to the rest of bot lane, including pushing a range of other marksmen out. Not a great time for that sort of effect. 2. We're seeing a couple of builds perform much better at present, Grasp especially. Not the most fun way for Caitlyn to play, and would like her to have other equally effective options as well though. 3. The biggest one - we're expecting her to benefit more than most from crit item changes.
On the topic of Cait, is she ever going to get her revive bug fixed? When she is reviving from GA or Zil ult, if someone steps on a trap she can headshot them even though she is technically dead. I'm guessing its because her trap and netshots are different from the standard auto attack because of empowered range but its still worth looking into.
: Please don't release Neeko with
Well to be technical: Nunu W 180-360 (+150% ap) magic damage and R 1275 (+250% ap) magic damage. Those are both AoE abilities. Neeko will be significantly overpowered on release but I don't think its gonna be the numbers that make her unbearable. Probably the fact her ult starts off invisible if you are cloned.
: Why do tanks not work anymore? Overkill damage.
I feel like losing 53-20 in general is disheartening. I think tanks are a tad weak right now but if the enemy team manages to get 33 more kills than you then its not surprising you can't just build some resistance and expect to instantly face tank all their damage.
: Did you know TOWERS WIlL PROC DARK HARVEST FOR YOU. That's how fking stupid this rune is.
: I don't know, I feel like it takes more effort for me to play around his wind wall than it does for him too. Also, Yas doesn't really trade as much as he does just all in because he just has the damage for it. At least from my experiences. His whole kit feels like a Sion ult with no cooldowns lol. Just ride up, knock you up, massive damage, ignore damage. Rinse and repeat. I just kind of have to wait for him to pull a classic Yas and dive me under turret and hope to god I can flash his knockup. Even then if he's a decent Yasuo he can just walk out and wind wall any punishment in return and retry lol. His mind consists of "q, q, q, q, q, q" and everyone else is "oh god flash, kite, kite, bait, shit fuck shit, dodge, fuck shit fuck, poke, shield, HEAL, STOPWATCH, OH GOD, DODGE, SHIT, Q, W, E, R, OH GOD NO" But yes, I agree, I'm sure more hardcore players can easily outplay a Yasuo.
I wouldn't even consider myself that hardcore as I consistently play picks like jinx jungle, nunu apc, crit annie etc. but ive learned that yas doesn't really take much to "outplay." I look at it as if he w's and im ranged then i can beat his butt. If there are no minions then i can beat his butt. If he just missed nado then i can beat his butt. Its like playing a cc champion vs morgana. Not really hard when you look for a sec. But if by casual you mean that you don't want to be forced to think about what he can and can't do then yea he has no counterplay.
Xonra (NA)
: This shows how little you actually understand of the game. Just because something was nerfed doesn't mean it isn't still far stronger than it should be. Which in this case...at least for now, is Dark Harvest still. There is no reason NOT to take it unless I guess you are a tank?
Its still a strong rune but if you have 4 people on the enemy team with DH and you lose early, thats more on you then the game. Only exception is if all their champs are early game bullies and then you should still outscale.
: I hate these new towers. As a support I was allowed to do ganks at the cost of some tower health. Now that means free gold for the enemy while I risk a lot. So I am forced to sit under tower and I hate it. It is also awful when somebody is afk for a few minutes. The enemy gets so much free gold. You can also get a lot of money with lane bullies with catcher support that everybody is forced to use them. This limits my options and I hate it as well. Ty riot, great work!
That's whats called a tradeoff. You are now punished for failing early ganks. You do well they get 160g you get 450g from a kill. You do poorly and you get behind in gold.
: How come you can't invite the enemy to play with you like you can an ally after a match?
Zapzya (OCE)
: Fair enough. I still dislike the design, but I am generally averse to burst damage and dislike electrocute in its current state as well. I believe the problem this patch is more than just dark harvest, but also the extra 20 adaptive force you can take from shards with the defensive options providing less value at 10 armour or 12 MR. I will say however, I have been able to get 1 soul per minute with this rune more than once by duo bot lane with my friend, in more than one game, and he also kept up with me in dark harvest stacks. I'm pretty sure that it outscales electrocute at that point, but I haven't checked the math. Whether or not this is just a fair tactic and if you think that kind of damage should be a part of the game is a matter of opinion I guess, but I personally do not like its affect on the game.
The math is a bit funky because of level scaling but in bot lane DH is better to take vs elec if you can proc it and mainly for kill lanes. I would have to disagree on the adaptive stats but I don't have the numbers pulled up right now.
: Dark Harvest Math?
Because how DH only procs when you are below 50%hp, it usually ends up only being powerful when ahead or in very aggressive lanes. People talk about the resets late but they aren't strong unless you are playing katarina, wukong, or brand. If you aren't playing those 3 then you'll get about 2 procs in a team fight. In lane its only stronger if are playing a champ that can't consistently proc electrocute or has low slows for comet like Varus, Ez, Cait or Xerath. The only other scenario resets are impactful is bot lane because 1 kill commonly leads to 2 from it. In general, its a bit too powerful in the right scenario but fairly overhyped.
: Who the hell looks at Yasuo and thinks "yep this looks alright"
Yasuo isn't unbalanced at all. The main issue is a lot of silver elo players just think of what they want to do and not what the enemy wants to do. You have to interact with {{champion:157}} abilities just as much as he does. Yas is ironically a champion that forces interaction and doesn't require platinum mechanics to defeat. He just requires both parties to play in a trade. This is coming from someone who can have every single one of my abilities and autos blocked by his wind wall. {{champion:51}}
Zapzya (OCE)
: Except it resets on kills. This means even though it has a 45 second cooldown, you can proc it multiple times in a team fight, which leads to a higher impact rune than electrocute. Dark harvest is very easy to proc most of the time as well, considering any damage at all will proc it, from autos to abilities to dots, including ignite. It feels cheap (at least to me) that just being slightly under 50% hp will lead to a single auto chunking me for 100-200 damage. This ease of proc is why I don't think it is exactly comparable to old electrocute. Moreover, just because it isn't as broken as old electrocute doesn't mean it isn't broken and being abused by certain champions (though I think you imply this).
The reset on kills isn't as impactful as it seems. It has the 1.5 second reset so in the worst case scenario of someone proc'ing it 5 times it will still take at the minimum 6 seconds of damage. This time is also enough to pull back in a guaranteed loss fight in most cases. Champions who are designed to output a lot of aoe damage are in general the only ones to ever get more than 2 proc's in a teamfight. I've had multiple cases where i just didn't proc my DH because the enemy was already dead when it came back up. I usually pull around 20 stacks on the high end in a winning game by 30 minutes. The only cases that need to be looked at are poke champions like Caitlyn/ Xerath, Big teamfight assassins like Wukong/Katarina, Brand and Karthus. Those cases are the biggest abusers of DH and some of them aren't really unhealthy. They are just utilizing a new rune efficiently. The rune is insanely cheap which is why I feel it should have like a range cap of proc'ing or the nerf they are putting on pbe of not proc'ing off procs like ignite or scorch, but I don't want Riot to gut it into unusable like Klepto.
Zapzya (OCE)
: Its "counterplay" is stay above 50% hp. Surely you can't think that is healthy?
Its weaker than old electrocute. Which had the counterplay of, "Don't get comboed." It does less damage then now nerfed electrocute as well. In a solo lane its not very strong early as it can only be proc'd every 45 seconds compared to 25 by electrocute. Tanks don't even care about the damage too. Its only good on poke champs and high damage bot lanes vs double squishies. There are only select cases where DH is better than other options which can be said for every rune besides klepto, which is just bad.
: This "League of Dark Harvest" meta is just like the "League of Thunderlords" but worse.
Most people are taking it right now because day 1 it was far out of line. It got hotfixed 24 hours after release but people are still taking it because they think it has no counterplay.
: Revert Dark Harvest.
Dark Harvest after hot fix isn't even overpowered unless your an abuser(high damage poke champion). If you want to 1 shot then electrocute is strictly better unless you are bot lane. Electrocute is better on assassins and combo solo lane champs just like how aftershock i better for tankier champs. But logic doesn't matter to the boards. People are just gonna downvote me because DH was overpowered on release.
: Well if you think about this way: Those champs in any one game dictate the type of items their enemies will have to build, effectively removing versatility among item builds. If anything, it would be better to remove Grevious wounds and nerf ally/self healing so that players can have more choices to choose from - item build wise.
More like versatility is determinedby the decisions you make to handle those champions. You can choose to forego GW but you cant fight vs vlad or when you know soraka ult is up. Or you can choose to invest 800-1000 gold to reduce their survivability. Removing Grievous wounds would just result in players building the same exact items that they do in literally any other game they play. Its like saying remove tenacity and reduce cc in game to give more options of boots. The choice to build to weaken enemies' effectiveness is still a choice.
Kohna (NA)
: How To Make A Neeko
nunu is a child. I'm calling the fbi
: If Syndra had the same Pyke/Urgot execution indicator
These look like syndra nerfs. She isn't even full.
: Just plyed against Int Sion
If you are melee and AD then get tiamat and never leave lane if you get a lead. you go wherever int sion goes and make sure his wave never gets to tower. If you are a mage then waveclear and get mejais.
Juice (EUNE)
: You get bullied by Viktor all laning phase
If you gank viktor once vs a top laner with a gap close then he chain feeds.
KazKaz (OCE)
: Then I suppose that that mathematical improbability is a reality. You forget that inting and toxic individuals exist as well, those also contribute to losses.
Most games don't have inting. Some people call players who lose lane inting which is not synonymous. If it were then there would be a 75% chance of inters but games with true inting end in 15-20 minutes. Being toxic doesn't automatically contribute to losses either. I have won with teammates that would probably stab me if they saw me in the street. The odds of someone being toxic enough to hold a game hostage or int is about 1/10. Also the enemy team has just as likely a chance of getting said problem player.
Rioter Comments
Terozu (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=WøOxer,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P5pjfrZ5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-11-13T10:51:37.846+0000) > > Better they made a feature to mute every ones Emotes whenever game starts. > > Cuz I dont like this feature. Isn't this already a thing in settings?
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P5pjfrZ5,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2018-11-13T15:28:19.152+0000) > > Isn&#x27;t this already a thing in settings? Yup they put that feature in before they even put in emotes.
Lyandere (NA)
: Honor system affecting season reward
Its almost like Riot punishes people for being toxic. Who would have guessed.
KazKaz (OCE)
: ....which is most games.
Its mathematically improbable that your team is at a complete disadvantage every single game unless your own lane is absurdly behind every game. In my games, I get behind but I don't ever get completely decimated to the point where my lane opponent can 1v9. The main times I FF early is if we have something like a full AD team lose most lanes and the enemy has rammus and malphite ahead. Those situations are like when the enemy draft just counters yours and they hit their win condition but most games the win condition is kill baron aram mid.
Moody P (NA)
: Valid points, I'll try to clarify. What I mean by this is that these tanks are an issue because of a combination of these things We've had multiple points where people complain that Galio's damage is too high, whether it's tank or AP Galio, we're still complaining about that with Ornn, and depending which side of the fence you sit on, Sion too. How much CC they have is more of an issue of the overall CC creep in this game which IMO belongs to its own separate discussion. By contrast, Shen doesn't feel like he does 'too much,' even if he's doing quite a lot of damage- maybe more than the tanks above, I haven't checked, and I'd suspect that to be because his fight pattern is a lot more drawn out than any of the above. Same with Sejuani; outside of season 5 Cinderhulk making her damage go up farther than it ever could before, as well as combined with Thornmail, Cinderhulk's burn, and Gromp smite buffs, her damage wasn't really something people got upset about, but we all acknowledged that she scaled very hard into damage despite being a 'tank.' Tahm, as well; even though I think his damage is cancer at least for top lane, it's not what makes him an issue almost ever when it comes to where/how he's actually used.
I can definitely agree with your fundamental argument. Being hard to kill, high kill threat, and having lockdown is like having their cake and eating it too. However, I don't think that just having burst damage on a tank can make them a problem champion. Galio is a perfect example of how to design a burst tank. His skill shots are projected and they give proper time to react considering his tanky nature. The only issue he had that was game breaking was when his numbers were just way too high and AP Galio could do 120% of someone's hp with just q after they landed. The time when that burst damage becomes unhealthy is in Ornn's case. His abillities come out instantly giving little time to deal with them. And by them I mean his W. Sion falls under this unhealthy burst when his Q can chunk people before full charge or when E max is a thing. Tanks having burst isn't fundamentally unhealthy and I would never play tanks if they all had the same damage pattern.
Moody P (NA)
: Tanks are much healthier when they do sustained damage than burst damage
This argument seems like a double standard. Shen and Tahm being called problematic for reasons other than damage when "burst tanks" have bigger issues than they can burst some hp. Ornn is strong because he has the damage to lane but isn't the reason he's a strong pick because of his R being able to engage from 5 lightyears away? Galio also isn't a problem because he has a burst combo and rather because he has near global presence with an aoe knockup larger than baron pit. Sion is able to exert lane pressure by existing and past early game can't really be punished no matter what he does because of numbers. Sejuani was a problem because she didn't need resistances to be a tank. Buying cinderhulk and warmogs and being full build was cheap and cheesy. Not all burst threats are problems either like Nunu or Leona. That is not to say that some tanks damage isn't a problem, but that is not what causes all of them to become metadefining monsters.
: I think League has lost its main selling point.
Recently, I've felt the opposite. This patch in ranked, I've gotten behind literally every single game but I just adjust my build to compensate for the enemy team and my own. The only time a game is lost is when nexus is exploded or the enemy has baron. The exception is if your team is like just bad at everything.
AR URF (NA)
: You know what the worst kind of league player is?
I'm a tad toxic and I usually wait to ban last so I can ban their hover. if they dont hover and they ban my pick I usually pick one of my more off meta picks even in ranked. My favorite is when my adc bans my support so I get something like Tristanna or Irelia support. I've even locked in their pick before them just to send a message. I don't feed but I do my best to make sure their game is as annoying as mine.
: Yeah for ADCs. Noone else enjoyed the shitshow we had to endure since the beginning of s6. s6,7,8 were pure ADC meta. Thank god that shit is over.
S6 was half an adc meta when Twitch and Kogmaw were the 2 meta but when it became the Lucian Ezreal meta bot, solo laners were more important, mainly mid. S7 literally was known as the ADC in 2k17 meta because every adc was an ult bot. Remember when Ashe, Varus, and Jhin were the only ones picked with the very occasional Sivir. Second half was the ardent meta that became explosive right before worlds and that was literally just an adc right clicking while the support just spammed spells on them. It was a bot lane meta as a whole because an adc without ardent was useless but op with it. S8 hasn't been an adc meta for a few months. It was at the start but when mid season hit bot lane stopped mattering.
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Cait Main

Level 233 (NA)
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