MaFyO2154 (EUW)
: the game would be less toxic if the game would be more enjoyable
I agree, and something's gotta give. It makes stomps too stompy and encourages bullying behavior by people who like stomps better than an interactive, enjoyable experience. I add my voice to the calls for a Damage Reduction Day on PBE or similar. 5% across the board. Every single source of damage in the game.
: What is Urgot's weakness
A lot of his dominance has to do with the notion that he has high base damage and high base armor on a ranged champion. As a result, he eats the tradtional round of melee tops absolutely alive for the most part. He's far less oppressive against AP champs, as his base magic resist is not great. {{champion:518}} in particular absolutely wrecks him. She's as oppressive against him as he is against most traditional toplaners. Other mages are good as well, including lots of mages from the midlane who you wouldn't ordinarily take top if you're willing to switch it up - {{champion:101}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:103}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:142}} {{champion:8}} {{champion:161}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:43}} {{champion:63}} all do very nice damage against him with the range needed to stay safe. {{champion:245}} is in that unique mobile-AP-fighter zone that really can mess him up bad. Back in AD/tank world, both {{champion:78}} and {{champion:14}} become unkillable as soon as they're on one or two armor items and possibly a {{item:1053}}, because {{champion:6}} is pure physical damage and struggles hard against super-armor. This works with {{champion:44}} too if you're very skilled. {{champion:83}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:223}}{{champion:58}} can all beat him when played skillfully as well in a pure bruiser vs. bruiser matchup. If you're really adventurous, you can even take {{champion:37}} into him. She will just zap him to bits as soon as she's on {{item:3003}}, while healing up all his damage with a smile and hasting herself out of his skillshots. I will occasionally do this just to take oppressive {{champion:6}} players like me down a peg or two. :)
: > [{quoted}](name=Original Sin,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=b3qbmtiL,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-24T10:30:07.956+0000) > > Now you gotta rely on your support to not be braindead. Moneys on you switching roles to mid in the next month lmao Yeah, it’s funny reading this thread. I’m done with ADC at the moment and moving to jungle because I’m tired of losing the game from level 1 shit supports
> [{quoted}](name=Sewer Side,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=b3qbmtiL,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-05-24T13:13:33.467+0000) > > Yeah, it’s funny reading this thread. > > I’m done with ADC at the moment and moving to jungle because I’m tired of losing the game from level 1 shit supports The game needs a better education program. I've been saying this for close to a year now.
: Im leaving the jungle
I think it's the hardest role. You *are* seen as responsible for the entire map, and bad players if they are also irresponsible *will* blame you for their own lane losses. Part of the problem is that when a jungler falls behind versus a very skilled opponent, that opponent can almost *completely* lock down their counterplay. I don't know the right answer, but it might involve Riot focusing on junglers again for some new champs. A new, easy-to-play jungler who doesn't dominate too hard but also has nearly no bad matchups would be a great design goal.
: > [{quoted}](name=zPOOPz,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xKMrAYh,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-05-23T17:32:58.630+0000) > > https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us where do I go from there?
> [{quoted}](name=thefatlazycat,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=7xKMrAYh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-23T21:12:00.781+0000) > > where do I go from there? More specifically... https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us/articles/360001299888-Requesting-Your-Account-Data
Origins5 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHExEiFE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-16T08:02:08.190+0000) > > Just a bit of a warning to cool the profanity here. > > Rants about the decimation of your favorite champions are okay, within reason. Most longterm League players have been through a serious nerf on a main or favorite and understand the sentiment. > > Cursing like a stevedore usually isn't. It's not that we don't support free speech; the problem is generally simply that excessive profanity generally encourages negativity and/or toxicity to the point where threads can go badly off the rails and start racking up reports. > > Posts that are phrased *without* excessive cursing also usually get more attention and are more likely to produce a useful result that Riot actually wants to listen to. (Disclaimer: As always, moderators are not Rioters and I cannot promise any action to anyone from Riot Games, however in my experience as a moderator this is absolutely true.) > > Thanks! sorry dude, i just get really emotional when it comes to my champion. please forgive me.
> [{quoted}](name=Origins5,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WHExEiFE,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-05-17T20:00:23.629+0000) > > sorry dude, i just get really emotional when it comes to my champion. please forgive me. No problem and no forgiveness required. Thanks for being willing to stay positive!
Origins5 (NA)
: (REMOVED BY MODERATION) Revert Master Yi
Just a bit of a warning to cool the profanity here. Rants about the decimation of your favorite champions are okay, within reason. Most longterm League players have been through a serious nerf on a main or favorite and understand the sentiment. Cursing like a stevedore usually isn't. It's not that we don't support free speech; the problem is generally simply that excessive profanity generally encourages negativity and/or toxicity to the point where threads can go badly off the rails and start racking up reports. Posts that are phrased *without* excessive cursing also usually get more attention and are more likely to produce a useful result that Riot actually wants to listen to. (Disclaimer: As always, moderators are not Rioters and I cannot promise any action to anyone from Riot Games, however in my experience as a moderator this is absolutely true.) Thanks!
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=kQvwqbYx,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-08T18:32:28.098+0000) > > just listen to these testimonies: > > {{champion:122}} "I did'nt have fun in a game for the past two month!" > > {{champion:62}} "Please just end my suffering." > > {{champion:75}} *ASSIST PING* *ASSIST PING* *ASSIST PING* Still not convinced? Here's some more testimonies: {{champion:420}} "Nagakabourous strike me dead where I stand." {{champion:36}} "Mundo has heard of Masochism but this is ridiculous!" {{champion:86}} _Sucks thumb as he rocks back and forth in the fetal position_
> [{quoted}](name=EbonyBladeJ88,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=kQvwqbYx,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-05-08T22:29:32.244+0000) > > Still not convinced? Here's some more testimonies: > > {{champion:420}} "Nagakabourous strike me dead where I stand." > > {{champion:36}} "Mundo has heard of Masochism but this is ridiculous!" > > {{champion:86}} _Sucks thumb as he rocks back and forth in the fetal position_ And even more testimonies from our veterans! PLACE YOUR ORDER TODAY! {{champion:24}} : "I coulda been a contendah." {{champion:98}} : "This meta makes me long for happier days, like the time {{champion:238}} killed my dad." {{champion:48}} : *hides in the jungle underneath a Blue Sentinel*
: Neeko...yeesh.
She definitely destroys {{champion:58}} in lane. I'm not sure it's entirely awful for the lane's overall health, since he's been a bully with almost no pure counters up there for many seasons now, but it is a thing. If you'd like to dominate a toplane {{champion:518}} as a positional bully in {{champion:58}}'s style, I would recommend {{champion:31}} instead. Pre-6 you'll probably have to cede lane priority, but as soon as you have even 1-2 Feast stacks and any progress towards a major tank item, you can simply ignore her autos and sustain both health and mana off your waves to the point where she has to cede position to you all game after that. He's my go-to ban when playing her. {{champion:164}} is another good option, who can repeatedly hookshot onto her and tank her snare out with a shield and then stay stuck to her in ways the crocodile can't, such as using her own ult's jump to dodge {{champion:518}}'s. Sincerely, A Member Of The Oppressive Champion-Playing Apologists' Union
YaraUwU (NA)
: Sooo hows neeko atm? Good? Bad? Tomato?
I play {{champion:518}} top and feel she's in a really good place all over the map. Definitely can endorse adding her to any player's collection. She's a flex pick on the order of {{champion:157}} that can be played in five roles and used to throw off enemy team counterpicks, versatile, dominating when ahead, not useless when behind because of strong range and CC, and really balanced in terms of her ability to respond to a wide variety of game situations. Her clone is possibly the most underrated part of her kit, and can be used not just for subterfuge but for vision, blowing up traps and hazards, blocking skillshots and more. Also, I regularly use her passive to a wide variety of good ends - baiting out snare opportunities, luring teamfights by pretending to be a wounded target, disguising my ult's windup, and enhancing my clone's effectiveness as many players can sniff out an undisguised {{champion:518}} clone, but almost nobody expects the disguised clone. Strong tomato for sure. Like all champions, she rewards best those who fully understand her kit and all its interactions.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nPqrNEG1,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:26:53.863+0000) > > See, that's the thing though: > > Were you? > > You were trading damage or tankiness for sustain, which is an early-game strat that has been deliberately nerfed to bits for several years now. > > Does the game feel better for it, or worse? > > Because my vote is worse. i was a fizz main back in the day, nowadays days i would just buy corrupting potion but flask and 4 pots were way better. Since i came back i was forced to play leblanc on mid because as fizz i don't have sustain like i use to have. i haven't played LoL for 3 years btw. i came back 3 weeks ago.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nPqrNEG1,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:38:44.545+0000) > > i was a fizz main back in the day, nowadays days i would just buy corrupting potion but flask and 4 pots were way better. Since i came back i was forced to play leblanc on mid because as fizz i don't have sustain like i use to have. i haven't played LoL for 3 years btw. i came back 3 weeks ago. I can't count one time I ever said, "Hey, my lane opponent is using *too many potions* and it makes the game feel bad for me" back in the day. When I lost to Flask I usually tipped my hat to my lane opponent for teaching me something.
: bring back crystalline flask and 4 pots so i can abuse my way to plat again.
> [{quoted}](name=Heko The Man,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nPqrNEG1,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:18:49.490+0000) > > bring back crystalline flask and 4 pots so i can abuse my way to plat again. See, that's the thing though: Were you? You were trading damage or tankiness for sustain, which is an early-game strat that has been deliberately nerfed to bits for several years now. Does the game feel better for it, or worse? Because my vote is worse.
: Here is why the core game of League of Legends is currently broken
This is good Boards. It gets to the root of a lot of damage creep that has been causing pain around here with well-sourced analysis and discussion. I remain an advocate of a 5% Damage Reduction Day on PBE as a quiet experiment to find out if the game feels better with some of it trimmed back off the top. I also felt the old Runes/Masteries to be superior to Reforged, allowing a greater range of playstyles. I don't completely hate Reforged, but the lack of breadth in the new stat boost choices restrict the kind of game that can be played - I was a big fan of old mana regen runes on certain mages, for instance, and it allowed me to trade power for sustain in a way that the war on mana just doesn't allow anymore. I wish I knew what the balance team felt was so broken about letting me have *less* damage - something the entire boards clamor for - in return for the chance to actually maybe still cast a spell or two with a mage during first push past the first seven or eight minutes of the game! I think the game needs to move away from these kinds of enforced playstyles, allow more emergent metas (within reason), trim the damage, and bring creativity back. The war on mana is my own biggest peeve, because it's simply not fun to play a champion with no chance to use abilities at any point in the game, but I don't love the hyper-damage meta either and miss the quieter, more thoughtful, less-mobility-crept game of Season 2-4 too.
Copic (NA)
: Sure do love autofill.
I have to admit, it ruins a lot of games. I'd almost rather put up with 5-10 minute matchmaking timers.
Infernape (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T23:16:44.088+0000) > > I'd go with "faster", not necessarily "better" overall though. > > {{champion:103}} can certainly attempt roams she can't earlier in the game because of the mobility and damage in her ultimate - but if {{champion:518}} gets ahead and is stymied from the push by jungle support or simple timing she can, and good players do, use her own passive and ultimate to gank other lanes or counterjungle in some of the dirtiest, most effective ways known to the game at present. Then again her passive is pretty gimmicky. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between Neeko and an actual champion.
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T23:27:06.072+0000) > > Then again her passive is pretty gimmicky. It's pretty easy to tell the difference between Neeko and an actual champion. Sometimes. Depends how smart you are about it. When you're disguised up *and* using your W clone and entering into an unexpected situation, a lot of people can be fooled in my experience.
: I normally play Ahri, and even still Neeko feels like a chore to lane against. She stands in a way where she can hit minions with her E (which speeds it up and increases the duration) and then while rooted and with minions between me and her, she hits a full Q. That's the annoying no counterplay part to it. I feel like it's way too easy for Neeko to get a full combo on me and there's nothing I can do to play versus it. Personally I would want Riot to buff her Q damage and increase the cooldown on her E as well as remove the double duration stun on her E. The increased speed on her E for pushing it through targets feels fine and good, but not when it gets wider and stuns longer if she hits one minion. Her ultimate is also *extremely* anti-Ahri as I can't get close to her due to the threat of her stun and the damage it does with even one item. **Let's be fair, I'm not saying let's gut Neeko like we gutted Zoe, but at least make it where the damage she does feels appropriate. I don't mind taking a ton of damage if I get snared by E. That's fine. I accept that. But when I feel like it's nearly impossible to farm due to her E always being up or taking a ton of harrass for one Q or a single AA, that's not cool.**
> [{quoted}](name=Totally Worth It,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T03:30:23.934+0000) > > I normally play Ahri, and even still Neeko feels like a chore to lane against. She stands in a way where she can hit minions with her E (which speeds it up and increases the duration) and then while rooted and with minions between me and her, she hits a full Q. That's the annoying no counterplay part to it. I feel like it's way too easy for Neeko to get a full combo on me and there's nothing I can do to play versus it. > > Personally I would want Riot to buff her Q damage and increase the cooldown on her E as well as remove the double duration stun on her E. The increased speed on her E for pushing it through targets feels fine and good, but not when it gets wider and stuns longer if she hits one minion. Her ultimate is also *extremely* anti-Ahri as I can't get close to her due to the threat of her stun and the damage it does with even one item. > > **Let's be fair, I'm not saying let's gut Neeko like we gutted Zoe, but at least make it where the damage she does feels appropriate. I don't mind taking a ton of damage if I get snared by E. That's fine. I accept that. But when I feel like it's nearly impossible to farm due to her E always being up or taking a ton of harrass for one Q or a single AA, that's not cool.** I play both champs...it shouldn't be an awful matchup. Your early waveclear is a lot better, and your full combo should outdamage hers. Stay to your waves' sides as others have suggested until you bait her snare out, buy {{item:1001}} early to dodge it, push the wave at her with Q to allow roams (neither champ can tank minions without serious cost) and you'll have a better time. Honestly, the biggest advantage she has over you shouldn't even be her snare, as with skillful play you can use your own abilities for bait and counterplay against it. It's the way her W clone eats your charm, though it's arguable that only higher-experience {{champion:518}} mains really use that one to its full potential - I love the way my clones stay eating mushrooms and snareshots all day long, though I'm loath to let the chameleon out of the bag on that one. :>
iiGazeii (NA)
: Don't stand in the wave then. Stand next to it, so that she has to choose between punishing you, and hitting the wave. Rush your Lost Chapter upgrade, then build Banshee's. Dodge skillshots.
> [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-11T23:16:28.406+0000) > > Don't stand in the wave then. Stand next to it, so that she has to choose between punishing you, and hitting the wave. > > Rush your Lost Chapter upgrade, then build Banshee's. > > Dodge skillshots. Yup, this. {{champion:518}}'s bully potential is heavily reliant on her snare being up, and it's easy to dodge if you're actually trying to bait it. When it's on CD she has to scamper a lot of the time. Bait it out and then counterattack.
: ...Neeko's E has a 12 second CD at rank 1 and is maxed second. It's not up all the time. It literally has the same CD as Ahri's Charm in lane, so you should know just how long that is, frankly. Speaking of which, like, just throw Charm at her if you get snared and she goes for a Q. In the case of her hitting with the empowered E around max range, she won't be behind any of her own minions while going for the Q typically. Not to mention she'll be moving pretty predictably. Frankly, just give her a bit of respect and it becomes a lot harder for her to catch you out. Additionally, Ahri roams a heck of a lot better than her. Go gank top and bot.
> [{quoted}](name=The Archive,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-10T03:45:58.959+0000) > > Additionally, Ahri roams a heck of a lot better than her. Go gank top and bot. I'd go with "faster", not necessarily "better" overall though. {{champion:103}} can certainly attempt roams she can't earlier in the game because of the mobility and damage in her ultimate - but if {{champion:518}} gets ahead and is stymied from the push by jungle support or simple timing she can, and good players do, use her own passive and ultimate to gank other lanes or counterjungle in some of the dirtiest, most effective ways known to the game at present.
: {{champion:518}} is a very mechanically intensive champion and has a high skill ceiling. She, like all AP champions and {{champion:42}}, are invalidated by a {{item:1033}}.
> [{quoted}](name=Colton147147,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ahoAAPL8,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-05T03:24:51.416+0000) > > {{champion:518}} is a very mechanically intensive champion and has a high skill ceiling. > > She, like all AP champions and {{champion:42}}, are invalidated by a {{item:1033}}. Arguably this is less true in her case, as the discovery of her onhit kit gives her the option to go hybrid instead. Magic damage is part of her kit, but she's a lot less reliant on it than most other champions. She's almost the only true mage-marksman in the game, and it does give laning versus a good one some unique problems, particularly in the toplane. As a {{champion:518}} semi-main this season I'm actually very open to the notion that she's way too good in lane phase still, and that her new E feels "easy". I find her long autoattack range very exploitable as well; real fairness might involve toning it down some. However, like a lot of champs, the line to taking her to absolutely unplayable via supposed minor nerfs may be real too. Picking her top - where I quite admit that her potential for lane bullying is real - tends to wreck team comps later, and she's far less broken in every other lane and the jungle - squishy and easily explodable at just about every stage of the game if you can ever lay a finger on her. I'm open to nerfing her E or auto range - probably not both, though - and if so, she'd probably need some extra tankiness to compensate. (Damage buffs not needed, we have too many of those in League already.)
youthere (NA)
: Why is smurfing a thing that's okay?
That being said, I would also like to hear from high-ELO players about their experiences dealing with the stress of high-ELO play and their own frustrations, and how it causes smurfing/account bans, as that's part of the problem too. In an era where LCS stars are becoming genuine celebrities, there comes a point on the ladder where sabotage of someone's game becomes synonymous with sabotage of their career efforts, and while there are never going to be any guarantees in solo queue I am deeply sympathetic to high ELO players who experience things like the crucial second win of a promo snatched just out of reach by toxic-playstyle trolls whose selfish behavior doesn't show up on a chatlog. It's about more and better honest effort and positivity, all the way around. I think the solutions to this problem will have to do with a few things: * High ELO players choosing to stay worthy of their ranks via behavior, not just skill, and to play with the understanding that this is an e-sport - and that just as in normal sports, a certain level of role-model behavior is necessary to maintain your status of respect in the clubhouse. Smurfing isn't an excuse to stunt, show off, be a jerk, and put others down. * Low-and-mid ELO players doing things like choosing voluntarily to use resources like the [Fandom wiki ](https://leagueoflegends.fandom.com) and YouTube for study, to learn the kind of good fundamentals and teamwork that enable a better player experience in-game for others. (If I get in serious trouble myself one day, it will almost inevitably be the result of my screaming "Push behind your wave!!!!!!" over and over in in-game chat, for instance.) * Expanding the Honor system would help as well and give both camps a reason to stay honorable and above the chat foul line on a regular basis, both in-game and here.
: > [{quoted}](name=CrazyMonkeyCZ,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T06:15:38.798+0000) > > Low elo doesn't matter bcs the players can't play the game, why should anyone care about someone who is doing something wrongly and is probably ignorant towards advices and learning how to play better. > That's been my argument every time I try to play against people in little league baseball. If the kids want to win, they should just magically learn everything I know about baseball and not be as weak as kids. The joke's on them because I'm also doping.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessDusk0,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=00010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-11T06:40:17.061+0000) > > That's been my argument every time I try to play against people in little league baseball. If the kids want to win, they should just magically learn everything I know about baseball and not be as weak as kids. > The joke's on them because I'm also doping. Oh goodness, this made me laugh. For what it's worth - I agree with the sentiment: yes, the experiences of low ELO and newer players always matter as much as any high-ELO player, and no, serious harassment of others is not permitted no matter how bad a game someone may be having that day as long as the effort is honest. (Actual intentional feeding, refusal to play the game/deliberate ragequit, or other sabotage of the in-game experience is still punishable behavior and not excused by low ELO or inexperience.) This discussion, while fine for GD, has aspects of Gameplay conversation in it as well - and on gameplay-related Boards experiences, "shut up until you git gud" is really not serving the overall community well. I strongly encourage high ELO players who are resident here to take another tack as a good percentage of our reports at any given time have to do with toxic rank shaming in Gameplay discussions that go sour. I can sympathize with players who experience playstyles and problems in high ELO that lower ELO players don't understand - but even then, explain, tutor, and teach, don't treat new players like dirt because they're not as good yet. See also under our newer Universal Rules: > Gameplay & Rank Shaming > No belittling or shaming a player for their champion pool, rank, playstyle, or match history.
Cevrad (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=youthere,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-11T03:25:34.685+0000) > > I think plenty of people have quit as a result of not being able to climb for bullshit reasons like smurfs. > > And yes, I'll quit eventually, come back for URF, try to stick around, realize the game is still trash, repeat. Nope, because if one side has a smurf so does the other side. The matchmaking system works perfectly how it should work until you get to Diamond, so until then stop crying about the system and get better at the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Cevrad,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-05-11T12:56:23.676+0000) > > Nope, because if one side has a smurf so does the other side. The matchmaking system works perfectly how it should work until you get to Diamond, so until then stop crying about the system and get better at the game. Careful here. A friendly reminder about the Universal Rules: > Disrespecting or Insulting Other Community Members > Do not post content intended to insult, belittle, disrespect, or intentionally offend other community members as individuals or as groups. Criticism is an important and useful method of feedback, but must be respectful and constructive in nature. Non-constructive forms of criticism (such as questioning another poster's intelligence or requesting the firing or removal of an individual) are violations of this rule.
youthere (NA)
: Why is smurfing a thing that's okay?
I will add simply on my personal recognizance as an on-and-off Internet developer for more than twenty years that it is generally not a good idea to be a really big problem on the Internet and then assume that multiple accounts or smurfing are going to be one's shield against discovery. It might conceal some minor sins, but it gets progressively less hard to get the authority to discover and terminate that kind of trolling rather proportionately to the level of problem the troll chooses to make of him or herself. ------------------- I feel this gets away from the overall discussion, though, which is the effect purely in-game of how smurfing leads to a false ELO and MMR for players even in the absence of explicit toxicity, and that's a much wider and more necessary discussion - as is the question of whether or not smurfing encourages bad behavior such as chat restriction evasion. There's no such thing as "smurfing" in, say, chess, for instance, at least as far as I know - you register with chess officialdom under your real identity, and your record goes with you for the term of your life, and it can be argued that this is better for the game. But runs of bad luck and toxic teammates can be real in League too, and I do sympathize with those who might seek a fresh start- and actually having a good time on a smurf is not trivial, as you start out without {{summoner:4}} or a roster, so the question of whether or not someone who is really willing to go through all the work of starting over, re-buying champions, and actually rebuilding a new account but isn't otherwise toxic should be punished for the sins of less honorable smurfs is valid in my eyes. The discussion could possibly use some love from real ELO/MMR rating system experts, of which I am not one.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-11T10:46:41.428+0000) > >However I will promise that under current moderator policy, if someone is being a problem here, all their accounts are treated as one. Ignoring accounts that are tied to the same e-mail address, there's no way to tell which accounts belong to which people. Also, I may be interpreting it incorrectly, but there's no way moderators have access to the information of which accounts are under a given e-mail address or which accounts share an e-mail address. I doubt they even have access to the e-mail address a given account is under.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nt0n1K3h,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T11:07:52.349+0000) > > Ignoring accounts that are tied to the same e-mail address, there's no way to tell which accounts belong to which people. > > Also, I may be interpreting it incorrectly, but there's no way moderators have access to the information of which accounts are under a given e-mail address or which accounts share an e-mail address. I doubt they even have access to the e-mail address a given account is under. This is not entirely correct, however revealing too much on this kind of investigative procedure is not a good idea as it would be a boon to those seeking to abuse the practice against the community. In serious abuse cases on the Boards at least, this does get into areas where we do collaborate with Riot staff - and as a result that is something I'm not allowed to speak here personally on, that discussion would need Herald-level attention or higher. The team has other ways, and that's all I will say on that. No, it's not always possible - but we do try, at least when it comes to ban-evaders here, and succeed more often than you probably think.
youthere (NA)
: Why is smurfing a thing that's okay?
Smurfing is as far as I know not de facto against the rules, nor is the practice of having multiple accounts. However I will promise that under current moderator policy, if someone is being a problem here, all their accounts are treated as one. Anyone found "board smurfing" to evade warnings or minor punishments generally enters consideration for the really heavy end of the hammer, including the potential of a permanent Boards ban. As far as in-game goes - we as mods don't take action on anything in-game; that's all Riot. But if someone is breaking the rules here - slurs, advocacy of trolling/actual intentional feeding, etc., *and* then admits to smurfing in-game on top of it - I'll happily consider that case for escalation based on the fact that not only is this person being toxic, they're being toxic in a situation that very explicitly hurts the less experienced and newer players any game needs to cultivate to thrive. I agree with the OP that the practice can be problematic, and it would be good to hear more from Riot on a better multiple accounts policy generally. My experience as a player since Season 2 and a Boards moderator is that there is indeed some correlation between multiple accounts and problematic player behavior - proving causation is always another step, but there is certainly motive as multiple accounts can cover up for a history of sins or evade chat restrictions and so on - and I will certainly recommend that at minimum multiple accounts that can be traced back to a problematic player are always viewed cumulatively (e.g. as a single person) for purposes of handing out punishment, revoking Honor, player bans, and so forth. (Disclaimer: As always, while discussing things related to Riot Games itself, I am required to remind the community that mods are volunteers and do not speak for Riot in any way.)
: Riven "Nerfs" lol. Still a permaban for me chief cuz this ain't it.
I will reiterate one more time what I have been saying - Good as she is, she's not as big a threat to those who push their waves properly and avoid all-in 1v1s until baiting out her cooldowns. That doesn't apply to a great many people who play this game - even in high ELO. I watch enough games to see greedy bad plays at every level of skill. And while I'm certainly not high ELO - I get tired of asking constantly how many people in my own matches skipped the tutorial, or never learned "push behind your wave". People play League greedily, almost violently, and fundamentals go out the window often - even in LCS! Cloud 9 is my team, but I defy anyone to watch Svenskeren's failed gank in Game 1 of the World Semifinals vs. Fnatic last year that basically set the tone for the entire series and still tell me everyone in the LCS plays good, wave-oriented, non-champion-fight-prioritizing fundamentals all the time. {{champion:92}} punishes greed. She punishes it harder than any other champion in the game, arguably. Is that a bad thing for the community? I guess it depends how important it is to the community to be continued to allowed to play a greedy playstyle. Even my friends complain of boredom when I ask them to play a wave-push-oriented game instead of Street Fighter Runeterra, so let's discuss it all.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T15:28:04.985+0000) > > And are you just standing there and letting this happen? > > Are you playing as a champion or a minion? Champs have counterplay. Who is it that you're playing that's getting tagged by six attacks in a row at level 2 without any recourse to dodge or fight back? Do you play this game? Like do you understand riven does Q+AA+Q+AA+Q+AA in less than a second? She is not a jax that needs to leap strike, auto, W, auto, auto, auto for five seconds. She literally stacks conq in a second depending on how good she can animation cancel hell her entire kit can be loaded into 1,5 seconds of actual animations.
> [{quoted}](name=SuperTopLFBottom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e00000000000000000003,timestamp=2019-05-04T01:12:40.079+0000) > > Do you play this game? > Like do you understand riven does Q+AA+Q+AA+Q+AA in less than a second? She is not a jax that needs to leap strike, auto, W, auto, auto, auto for five seconds. She literally stacks conq in a second depending on how good she can animation cancel hell her entire kit can be loaded into 1,5 seconds of actual animations. I play this game more than I ought to, and I should probably stop giving advice on a matchup I don't find difficult, because apparently it's just going to make me a pariah. I will give a modicum of respect to your Platinum rank, however - you please show me a clip of a level 2 {{champion:92}} doing her full Q combo with autos and animation cancels, in "less than a second", and I will revise my position. I'm highly skeptical. I'm skeptical that even a fullbuild, level 18 version with some attackspeed items can six-hit in less than a second - but maybe. Even with animation cancels, she has still has a preattack phase on her autos, and her Q's aren't instantaneous. *Maybe* during Awakened Dragon - but even then I feel like she'd have to have at least one other major AS item, which are pretty rare on her, given her basic essential S9 core of {{item:3812}} {{item:3071}}{{item:3161}} and a {{item:3077}} item, none of which have any non-active AS in the stats at all. Here is a nice video of some animation cancels on her, for reference. I don't see any six-hit combo being done in "less than a second" throughout that entire video, nor any evidence of three Q's, three auto's, a W, E, and R being frontloaded into a "second and a half" either. In fact, there's a lovely little section at 1:27 where this person shows AA-Q-AA-Q-AA-Q-AA - when they finish, the timer is at 1:30, and as far as I can tell it's entirely possible that two of the autos were canceled too early, since I'm only seeing the Gromp's lifebar go down five discrete times. I could be wrong about that part, but I'm not wrong that the entire segment takes 2.5-3 seconds to complete. Look at the timer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0h0UqkvYqc At level 2-3 in under a second? Sorry, it's not happening. I think you're exaggerating, because you don't like the champion and feel she's unfair. I don't take exceptions to discussions that she is unfair; she's certainly an S-tier toplaner and a perpetual threat, but I do take exception to exaggeration combined with condescension. It's not going to help the debate.
: > That being said - it's not so awful that she ought to be able to proc a full set of Conqueror stacks on you by level 2 without counterplay, Each q gives her 1 stack. Then she has to aa you twice (or w). Not really that difficult (especially when you take into consideration that her q is aa reseter). > You ought to have Deathbringer stance and either E or W saved up for when she initiates on you And how exactly do i farm? If i keep it up for when she engages i will have to avoid using it on minions because she can engage me and she is going to win the trade. W is terrible because of her 4 dashes.
> [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0000000000000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-03T18:30:59.218+0000) > > Each q gives her 1 stack. Then she has to aa you twice (or w). Not really that difficult (especially when you take into consideration that her q is aa reseter). > It needs to be made difficult - or yes, she'll just run all over you. Each Q she *hits* gives her a stack. Why are you within range of her first or even second Q? Stay away from her until you can bait them out. > And how exactly do i farm? If i keep it up for when she engages i will have to avoid using it on minions because she can engage me and she is going to win the trade. W is terrible because of her 4 dashes. You keep to the back side of your wave, and tag her with your own Q which has a greater ranger than hers - or use it to force out her own dashes/cooldowns - using the stuns as best you can to position yourself to stay out of her range. You kite her while avoiding the all-ins; you use your own greater AOE and waveclear potential and the three stuns on your Q versus the single one on hers to push the wave at her and use the minions for protection early - which is an underrated technique in many matchups. As I said, I don't think you're going to have a wonderful time as {{champion:266}} versus {{champion:92}}. Her HP regen is much higher than yours, and you can't heal off minions on your E anymore. Still, it shouldn't just be a slaughter. You ought to be able to hit enough sweetspot stuns, W's, and retain your E often enough that you don't just get butchered in lane. You might end up 10-20 CS down, but it's still not a bad enough matchup that you should be getting powerfarmed.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T15:28:04.985+0000) > > And are you just standing there and letting this happen? > > Are you playing as a champion or a minion? Champs have counterplay. Who is it that you're playing that's getting tagged by six attacks in a row at level 2 without any recourse to dodge or fight back? I just played vs riven as aatrox and i have to say, despite my e well, yeah i couldnt do anything. She didnt have conq though but still she outdamaged me because by the time she had unloaded her kit she disengaged and because im aatrox i couldnt chase her.
> [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e00000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-05-03T09:25:15.920+0000) > > I just played vs riven as aatrox and i have to say, despite my e well, yeah i couldnt do anything. She didnt have conq though but still she outdamaged me because by the time she had unloaded her kit she disengaged and because im aatrox i couldnt chase her. Doesn't strike me as a great matchup - she can dash inside of his sweetspots, whereas he only has two tools to try to escape hers (E/W), and he has no shield. That being said - it's not so awful that she ought to be able to proc a full set of Conqueror stacks on you by level 2 without counterplay, either. You ought to have Deathbringer stance and either E or W saved up for when she initiates on you, and you have innate (or at least E-passive) lifesteal versus champions and she doesn't.
Terozu (NA)
: Isn't it called Ace in the Hole? I thought her ult was named after her gun.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=Qe6T4Lq5,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-03T02:38:32.159+0000) > > Isn't it called Ace in the Hole? > > I thought her ult was named after her gun. Either Ace In The Hole or The Peacemaker would be great names, related to her kit.
Manxxom (NA)
: When someone tells everyone to report someone because they only did bad
I want to reiterate to the community: Having a bad game is not a reportable offense. Only deliberate, intentional feeding, which is far from what is usually called "inting" now (even by casters, which is a bad mistake on their part) - or otherwise trolling your team and attempting to cause a loss with gameplay, including leaving/AFK - is reportable when it comes to actual gameplay.
: S/He is right tho with Urgot I Main him top and the only Rivens that win are ones that have a Pocket Jungler with hard CC camp top or are Diamond smurfs
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0002,timestamp=2019-05-03T05:24:46.801+0000) > > S/He is right tho with Urgot > > I Main him top and the only Rivens that win are ones that have a Pocket Jungler with hard CC camp top or are Diamond smurfs {{champion:518}} is bonkers versus {{champion:92}} too, particularly on-hit, at least in lane phase. Yes, squishy mage, all-in risk, et cetera, but honestly before 6 it's really dangerous for her to even *try* to all-in - because one successful snare-Q-empowered auto combo landed versus the all-in and {{champion:92}} is at half health with her cooldowns down, and {{champion:518}} is flitting around with her butterfly 500 units away or better and *still* autoing her. The danger is in what it does to your teamcomp later, but it's a brutal counterpick in lane. I mean, I understand many people feel toplane {{champion:518}} is cancer too - but for those who are open-minded, or simply tired of losing the melee matchups, give it a try some time in a normals. The matchup feels good to play and will give those who are tired of losing to her some satisfaction.
: "Shut up you are a girl," so I changed my name
I am saddened and horrified to hear of the misogyny you've experienced. :( You have been poorly served by the League community. Would you be willing to discuss some of your experiences with me so that I have a better reference for further discussions on the subject with the moderation team about what you've experienced?
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T20:30:01.321+0000) > > I'm willing to listen. Why happens to the practice of tagging her with his own autos every time she tries to CS? Why isn't that a thing anymore at Plat+? It is a thing but once she hits level 3 she can quickly stun and win a trade against you whenever you try to play agro. Her conq also procs faster and longer which helps her if you try to all in her with stun when she attacks you.
> [{quoted}](name=Imbetterthanmoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-03T00:41:07.391+0000) > > It is a thing but once she hits level 3 she can quickly stun and win a trade against you whenever you try to play agro. Her conq also procs faster and longer which helps her if you try to all in her with stun when she attacks you. But I play Grasp in that matchup. Without it - I agree, she'd often have a slight edge on the trades. With it, I shoot her once when she's disengaging, and then the trade ends up slightly in my own favor - and if I can then get a second Grasp hit before her cooldowns are back up, which often isn't hard to do, I'm *way* ahead on that trade. And if she makes the choice instead to consciously stay out of range, she sacrifices wave management/CS opportunities/position instead, which I can also exploit. This is why I'm saying that better sustain options and a sustain-minded philosophy may be the keys towards reducing her dominance. There's a lot of greed in League; always has been. Conqueror can be extremely good, but it's far from the end-all and be-all of toplane runes and build choices. I played {{summoner:13}} right up to its removal from the Rift, for instance - and was often mocked endlessly for it, but when I'd refresh someone's mana who would run out at a critical time, or end up way ahead in lane phase because I didn't have to back for mana, they'd stop mocking. That's gone with the war on mana, of course, but I still favor sustain-minded builds and rune choices in ways that others don't, and I still think it's a big part of why I struggle less against {{champion:92}} than others.
: Its extremely hard to hit urgot's stun on riven cause she has 4 dashes. Aslong as she dodges his stun she can legit kite him with autos and aslong as she stays within the no shotgun zone she lives. Urgot doesnt have a chance until his infinite gatling which is level 9 and by then she has also scaled alot. Seeing as how you only play vs silver rivens in norms i doubt you would have many problems vs her. I recently grinded to plat with urgot and i fought alot of rivens on the way so i know the match up quite well.
> [{quoted}](name=Imbetterthanmoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T17:04:47.290+0000) > > Its extremely hard to hit urgot's stun on riven cause she has 4 dashes. Aslong as she dodges his stun she can legit kite him with autos and aslong as she stays within the no shotgun zone she lives. Urgot doesnt have a chance until his infinite gatling which is level 9 and by then she has also scaled alot. Seeing as how you only play vs silver rivens in norms i doubt you would have many problems vs her. I recently grinded to plat with urgot and i fought alot of rivens on the way so i know the match up quite well. I'm willing to listen. Why happens to the practice of tagging her with his own autos every time she tries to CS? Why isn't that a thing anymore at Plat+?
Snowbrand (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-05-02T13:34:01.962+0000) > > Conqueror needs to go. It was introduced to the game because a lot of toplane bruisers missed Fervor of Battle. But instead, everyone got "buffed Fervor" instead and it's been problematic ever since. > > Take it out of the game and replace it with Fervor again. No true damage or healing or other extras. Just flat adaptive force. They buffed all the keystones with the runes rework. Keeping the old fervor would make it an underpowered rune compared with the other buffed keystones.
> [{quoted}](name=Snowbrand,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pJpEeq8v,comment-id=000e0001,timestamp=2019-05-02T16:22:25.101+0000) > > They buffed all the keystones with the runes rework. Keeping the old fervor would make it an underpowered rune compared with the other buffed keystones. Let's see it in practice before making that assessment. I'm not regularly seeing complaints about Grasp of the Undying, for instance, even though I think it's amazing. But Conqueror seems to be ruining lives every day.
Marlusia (NA)
: Do you just assume everyone that plays the game and has criticism about a champion is "just standing there?" You realize the champion revolves around dashes and heavy cc. Assuming you're playing a melee top laner, do you realize how difficult it is to disengage from a riven?
> [{quoted}](name=Marlusia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T15:41:28.194+0000) > > Do you just assume everyone that plays the game and has criticism about a champion is "just standing there?" > > You realize the champion revolves around dashes and heavy cc. Assuming you're playing a melee top laner, do you realize how difficult it is to disengage from a riven? I do not assume these things, but I seem to find her combos less oppressive to survive and thus hope to offer my experience. And I do realize the difficulty of disengagement. It is absolutely hard to disengage from {{champion:92}} - if she's early in her Q-sequence, and her dash is up. She probably beats most champions in the game at trading 1v1 if she begins her ability sequences with full cooldowns right next to the opposing champion, while surrounded by no major external wave or threat. I do not get extremely close to a {{champion:92}} who I know is up on every one of her major cooldowns, ever, at any stage in the game. If some abilities have been put on partial or full cooldown through feints, dodges, previous engages, or waiting for her to use Q to push the wave, or if you have relevant CC capable of interrupting her combos - {{champion:86}} Q, {{champion:122}} E, {{champion:113}} stacks proc, {{champion:58}} stun, {{champion:120}} fear and so forth - things get a lot murkier and it's much easier to design a winning trade - in some cases immensely so. {{champion:92}} is a squish as fighters go, and gets beaten up real hard real early in the game, particularly by champions who can then heal off a wave or passive or natural sustain as she's popping potions. Constant pressure is also key; you can't just let her build up full stacks of her passive damage bonus stacks and then go in for multiple animation-canceled AA's. In my experience you have to fight her early and hard while also fighting your waves for best results.
: > [{quoted}](name=Starcraft243ver,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xYYVGmfI,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-02T14:44:21.273+0000) > > So you were playing 1v2 and expected to have fun or even win your lane ? > > I mean, what's the actual f... ? > > If you are playing 1v2 you hug your turret and harvest only the safe cs. Then you build tanky enough to survive the laning phase. The ennemy team is playing 4v3 so your only goal is to not feed the duo laners against you and you'll get an edge after the laning phase. > > You are asking to be able to play mindlessly without adapting in a multiplayer team game. Sorry, it's not going to work, if you want every single game in LoL to look alike and play the same exact build/strategy in your games, play against bot or pick a game on which you play against an AI. > > Now instead of crying on the boards that this game is too difficult for you, why dont you analyze your game to understand what you could have done ? This is how this game is supposed to be played : > > - Get beaten by a strategy > - study the strategy > - identify weaknesses > - adapt > - win Did you see he's a new player at level 9? There's not really a meta in lower levels, and jungling isn't as big of a thing, it's very common to not have a jungler on one or both teams. And your attitude and aggressiveness is another big factor on why people don't want to play this game. He's level NINE he doesn't need people to tell him "his game too hard for you?? Get gud".
> [{quoted}](name=Paletongue,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xYYVGmfI,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-05-02T17:37:21.021+0000) > > Did you see he's a new player at level 9? There's not really a meta in lower levels, and jungling isn't as big of a thing, it's very common to not have a jungler on one or both teams. > > And your attitude and aggressiveness is another big factor on why people don't want to play this game. He's level NINE he doesn't need people to tell him "his game too hard for you?? Get gud". I agree. "Gitgudism" is wayyyyyy too prevalent in League culture generally, and the Boards are not immune. I don't care how good you are - unless you're in the LCS or global equivalents, there are players better than you are, and LCS is way too busy practicing to come shame others here. Respect other players. Create a healthy environment for League. It's so important.
Marlusia (NA)
: It really isn't that hard to get full stacks of conqueror with melee casters. Q > Auto > Q > auto > E > auto : Conqueror. This is level 2. Q > Auto > Q > Auto > E > Auto > W > Q > Auto: Conqueror + obnoxious amount of damage. This is level 3+. Literally any combination of her abilities will more then likely result in conqueror in a short window. Keep in mind this isn't even taking into consideration that she will build death's dance & and spear of shoujin makes it much easier for her to just spam her abilities repeatedly and sustain heavily.
> [{quoted}](name=Marlusia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-02T15:26:19.838+0000) > > It really isn't that hard to get full stacks of conqueror with melee casters. > > Q > Auto > Q > auto > E > auto : Conqueror. This is level 2. > Q > Auto > Q > Auto > E > Auto > W > Q > Auto: Conqueror + obnoxious amount of damage. This is level 3+. > Literally any combination of her abilities will more then likely result in conqueror in a short window. > > Keep in mind this isn't even taking into consideration that she will build death's dance & and spear of shoujin makes it much easier for her to just spam her abilities repeatedly and sustain heavily. And are you just standing there and letting this happen? Are you playing as a champion or a minion? Champs have counterplay. Who is it that you're playing that's getting tagged by six attacks in a row at level 2 without any recourse to dodge or fight back?
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-05-02T13:17:14.607+0000) > > Pick {{champion:6}} or {{champion:518}} as a counter to her and watch her often get forced out of lane before level 3? > > I've been pro-{{champion:92}}-nerf for a long time, but I will still reiterate that she dumpsters those best who skipped the tutorial. Push behind your wave and avoid all-ins and you'll find her to be one of the most susceptible champs to a kite/sustain strat in the game, with no heals in her kit at all and a long lane phase before she gets into her {{item:3812}}. A good riven can easily kite within urgot's shotgun shots. The match up is more in her favour than his. Also if your strat is to play passive in lane it wont work. Riven not only has a strong early game being able to dodge ganks and trade easily but shes also a scaling monster
> [{quoted}](name=Imbetterthanmoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0001,timestamp=2019-05-02T14:51:44.037+0000) > > A good riven can easily kite within urgot's shotgun shots. The match up is more in her favour than his. Also if your strat is to play passive in lane it wont work. Riven not only has a strong early game being able to dodge ganks and trade easily but shes also a scaling monster I really disagree. She has a rough lane phase against him; she can kite him a bit, but until level 6 or so the wave will wreck her on all-ins, especially because he can flip the switch on her now with his shield on E and if he hits it his shield is much longer than hers and she cannot kite anything while stunned. This argument that a {{champion:92}} of sufficient skill ignores all of these considerations is one I do not agree with. I lost to at least one really good {{champion:92}} on {{champion:6}}, it's true - but I hardly played my best game that day, and it was still ridiculously close, and it doesn't make up for the dozens of lower skill {{champion:92}}s that I've forced out of lane over the years. She starts out the game as a high-damage but very squishy fighter, and that can be exploited if you're skillful. I just don't fear her in lane; I'm sorry. Cue the yells about how I'd change my tune if I got to play Diamond {{champion:92}} mains all day. It's possible. I have supported calls for her nerf because she's good and the community wants it; I support nerfing Conq back to Fervor, too. I don't know what more I can do. I can't agree to pretend to have serious problems versus her when I usually win the laning matchup; yes, that's only at my effective MMR, and I'll listen to high ELO players - but even in games where I play with high ELOs, I see a lot of greed. She snowballs fast, but only off kills and mistakes - I wrecked a {{champion:92}} in lane once only to watch my jungler towerdive her in a greedy, foolish maneuver I pinged off and feed her a kill and some gold; that made second lane phase hard indeed - but we still eventually won that game. Maybe the right answer is to hit her dominant midgame scalings? The only thing that ever feels unfair about her to me is how she *does* utterly remove counterplay if she's far enough ahead - but like {{champion:11}}, your team has to screw up and offer a smorgasbord of early kills to get her there. She's *not* that rough when even with her opponents, and I promise that if you all prioritize kiting and sustain and keeping distance and letting the wave be your ally early against her, you will have a better time.
Marlusia (NA)
: HAHA no heal in her kit, until conqueror became a thing. That's pretty much having 10% life steal and true damage every fight.
> [{quoted}](name=Marlusia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001e0000,timestamp=2019-05-02T14:40:31.305+0000) > > HAHA no heal in her kit, until conqueror became a thing. That's pretty much having 10% life steal and true damage every fight. You all act like full stacks of Conq is a trivial proc. If you give her *five* ways to damage you and thus activate it in a 1v1 before, say, level 6, you're doing it wrong. Mid and late game - sure, she'll have it on in some teamfights, at least by the end of the fight. If your team fed her hard up to that point, she'll carry. If not, you'll have shut her down to the point where she's not very dangerous, if you're good. For what it's worth I have been calling for them to revert Conq back to Fervor for a long time. No true damage or extras, just put it back to what it was when the game was in a better place. Until that happens, I can only offer my advice.
: I highly doubt top lane tanks will amount to much with Conqueror in the game
Conqueror needs to go. It was introduced to the game because a lot of toplane bruisers missed Fervor of Battle. But instead, everyone got "buffed Fervor" instead and it's been problematic ever since. Take it out of the game and replace it with Fervor again. No true damage or healing or other extras. Just flat adaptive force.
: Boards: Damage has never been this high! Damage is too high!
Burst was *nuts* before a lot of Season 3-4 balance changes. I promise. I remember when {{champion:103}} could still kill people with single Foxfire bolts. We rose-tint our memories of the past a lot. Damage has unquestionably been buffed somewhat, but not nearly as much as everyone thinks. A lot of the power creep over the years is simply the result of people getting a lot, lot better at the game. That doesn't mean the damage meta should stay - I still feel a 5% damage reduction day on PBE would be a fantastic experiment - but it does imply that Riot's probably less to blame for the current meta than some people would like to believe.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Pastor Yorick,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JA6lw70w,comment-id=001c,timestamp=2019-05-02T12:34:56.591+0000) > > Wake up you idiots. Riot gave up,they don't care about the game anymore. You can see it in every branch of the company. They only care about proplay,which brings the most money. This is false. In fact, LCS and equivalents remain a net loss for the company.
: Riven "Nerfs" lol. Still a permaban for me chief cuz this ain't it.
Pick {{champion:6}} or {{champion:518}} as a counter to her and watch her often get forced out of lane before level 3? I've been pro-{{champion:92}}-nerf for a long time, but I will still reiterate that she dumpsters those best who skipped the tutorial. Push behind your wave and avoid all-ins and you'll find her to be one of the most susceptible champs to a kite/sustain strat in the game, with no heals in her kit at all and a long lane phase before she gets into her {{item:3812}}.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=W30TX4wE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-27T14:27:06.166+0000) > > This is probably totally going to get me in trouble - but goodness, some of you are just so endlessly negative, and it's just starting to grate on me. > > I count *five* "cutesy, ethereal" female enchanter supports - out of a *hundred and forty-three champions*. That would be {{champion:117}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}}{{champion:267}}{{champion:40}}. Yuumi will make six. That's all of four percent of the current roster, or a little less than one out of every *twenty* champions in League. You all tell me if I've missed anybody - but please don't just start listing midlane mages/toplane fighters who aren't enchanters, nor true supports. > > You want strong, killer women? I don't even have *time* this morning to list the dozens of female champions who are characterized as lethal, competent soldiers or leaders of their communities who can dumpster half the rest of the roster in the right hands. Start with {{champion:55}}{{champion:164}} and then pick *most of the rest of the female roster*. > > > > ---- > > No - I'm calling this post out. I don't think most of you here are mad that Yuumi is a cute girl cat at all nor are you fighting for any cause of female equality. I think a lot of you are just still pissed off that Riot tried to defend a female pro team at all - and to take a stance against the bullying of women in gamer culture, even if it was done badly. I don't think many of the supporters of this thread want to see women empowered in gaming at all, and I will say this even though I'm sure people here will bitterly report me for doing so. Why do some of you play this game if you hate Riot so much? Do you think you could do better? I urge you to try it. Most of you have no idea what it takes to make a game - the dedication, the years of learning involved - much less what it takes to create something that has been one of the world's most popular videogames for almost ten years. > > Finally - pick a better meme next time if you want to be taken seriously on the issue of confronting female stereotypes. [DJ Khaled is hardly an icon for female empowerment.](https://www.google.com/search?client=opera&q=dj+khaled+misogyny&sourceid=opera&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8) You think most of us are mad about gender issue with this game? Hahahahaha. Honk,Honk. I am pissed how tanks get treated. I am pissed many champs get treated better over others when it comes to buffs, and nerfs. I am pissed that the person showing proof of what the issue is gets brushed to the side. I am pissed how people who are interested in just playing the game get treated like crap. I have been playing the game for as long as teemo use to fill the whole map with shrooms, and AP Yi use to be a thing. Out of all those years you think its a gender thing I care more about over all else? This truly is a clown world we live in.
> [{quoted}](name=Ash Lockheart,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=W30TX4wE,comment-id=00050005,timestamp=2019-04-28T03:45:56.389+0000) > > You think most of us are mad about gender issue with this game? Hahahahaha. Honk,Honk. > > I am pissed how tanks get treated. > I am pissed many champs get treated better over others when it comes to buffs, and nerfs. > I am pissed that the person showing proof of what the issue is gets brushed to the side. > I am pissed how people who are interested in just playing the game get treated like crap. > > I have been playing the game for as long as teemo use to fill the whole map with shrooms, and AP Yi use to be a thing. > Out of all those years you think its a gender thing I care more about over all else? > > This truly is a clown world we live in. Actually, I genuinely respect that you're the only one here so far to admit that the anger on this issue isn't actually entirely about the gender of an imaginary cat and the book it rides on. Yup, I agree. League has balance issues; always has. I think that issue is harder to fix than a lot of people want to admit, though. You want to talk about these things? Let's talk about them. Let's do *anything* other than having people sit around, stewing in anger and hate, ready to blow up over something as meaningless as the gender of a magical cat.
: The fact that you even considered deleting this thread shows that at least one of the mods deserves their reputation for stifling debate and abusing power lol. I disagree with the original poster but that doesn't mean they deserve to have a thread deleted. Also that all female pro team didn't deserve to be defended, especially not since all they played in ranked were support champions and so those bans were 100% reasonable against those players
> [{quoted}](name=tjfreckles,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=W30TX4wE,comment-id=0005000000000001,timestamp=2019-04-27T17:33:36.978+0000) > > The fact that you even considered deleting this thread shows that at least one of the mods deserves their reputation for stifling debate and abusing power lol. I disagree with the original poster but that doesn't mean they deserve to have a thread deleted. > > Also that all female pro team didn't deserve to be defended, especially not since all they played in ranked were support champions and so those bans were 100% reasonable against those players You are more than welcome to advocate to the modteam for my firing. Hop on Discord some time and we'll discuss it. You'll notice I didn't stifle a thing or use my own moderator powers here - nor will I, unless the thread spirals completely out of control, I'd ask other mods to step in first, and/or even to censure me for unprofessionality - and that entire discussion about deletion happened because another commenter here thought this post should be deleted. But yes, there's an argument to be made that I screwed up here - I decided to be a human being, rather than a moderator, on this thread. That's not really allowed by the community. I'm supposed to be an advocate for you all, no matter how out-of-proportion this thread about the gender of a *fictional cat character* seems to me - and I didn't do that. I'd like to get to the point where I can understand and apologize to those of you who feel you were genuinely wronged. But I still don't understand. In a world where people are genuinely suffering and being hurt over a wide variety of far more important issues, I don't understand why the community erupted in anger here. Would you all genuinely be happy if Yuumi were a male instead of a female? Or would you still be ready to burn Riot down around its ears? We need to have some discussions about the anger, because I still don't think it has that much to do with the notion that a made-up cat flying around on a book has girl parts and not boy parts. I think some people here are furious with Riot generally and simply using this thread as an excuse to vent it.
: One more thing: the rules about racism and sexism are heavily weighted against whites and males, respectively. Basically, racism and sexism are allowed as long as they're directed at whites and males. Fix that.
> [{quoted}](name=KFCeytron,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EkLjfmds,comment-id=001e,timestamp=2019-05-02T06:51:41.309+0000) > > One more thing: the rules about racism and sexism are heavily weighted against whites and males, respectively. Basically, racism and sexism are allowed as long as they're directed at whites and males. Fix that. In what way has this been true? Can you provide examples?
Terozu (NA)
: No, if you've ever used a camera tool you'd know that the map is more of a shell, if you just reverse the camera angle you get a bunch of holes. You would have to make it so red team not only has a separate camera, you'd have to flip and mirror the entire map model. Watch something like Instaloks Xayah and Rakan video to see the holes I'm talking about. It looks like garbage.
> [{quoted}](name=Terozu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r9Oy0Lo4,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-27T16:34:25.854+0000) > > No, if you've ever used a camera tool you'd know that the map is more of a shell, if you just reverse the camera angle you get a bunch of holes. You would have to make it so red team not only has a separate camera, you'd have to flip and mirror the entire map model. > > Watch something like Instaloks Xayah and Rakan video to see the holes I'm talking about. > > It looks like garbage. I believe you, though you wouldn't really want to "flip and mirror" the map, and it's indeed doubtful that would even work - you'd need to model a version of the Rift that was complete enough to view from any angle. Not too hard, but not trivial and clearly not among the priorities right now.
: > What rules are unclear? What rules feel unreliably enforced? "don't be a jerk" It's vague as hell and whatever gets removed feels completely arbitrary. I've said things that are removed once but not every other time, even seeing others use it. Honestly it really just feels like it's on the whims of someone with the power to delete it. > What rules feel too restrictive, and what do we lose as a board community by having those rules be too restrictive? Word censoring. example: the removal of comments using the word trap which is absolutely ridiculous. getting rid of certain words refering to our black and jewish friends for example i completely understand tho. I'll accept the removal of r%%%%%ed, but won't agree with it. You're missing out on comedy. and aren't following riot's way which could lead to confusion. Riot claims to remove stuff that ain't accepted by the community, not by their own standards. afaik atleast. I think my example word has been deemed acceptable by most of the community AND the internet as a whole. And one more small thing that bothers me personally. The signatures some of you guys use in the "your shit's been removed" messages we get, maybe don't put quotes of champs encouraging breaking the rules there.
> [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EkLjfmds,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-05-01T18:38:55.175+0000) > > What rules feel unreliably enforced? > > "don't be a jerk" > It's vague as hell and whatever gets removed feels completely arbitrary. I've said things that are removed once but not every other time, even seeing others use it. > Honestly it really just feels like it's on the whims of someone with the power to delete it. This one is actually already being moved away from, for what it's worth. It's a good principle, but a bad actual rule, for the reasons you just mentioned. So we're trying to migrate the principle - which is really better phrased as the Golden Rule generally - into a form that can be better enforced.
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CaliCoastReplay

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