Bultz (NA)
: Remove the moderators
Rest assured your request for Riot to fire us all and put Rioters in charge has been heard. I actually think it wouldn't hurt for Riot to put more resources into these Boards myself - but until the Boards raise up to a certain level of positivity and a less hostile environment for Rioters to spend time, you may find it a hard sell. Try being nicer, and putting more effort into your posts, and you may even get some of the things you want - because your own case history, Bultz, involves a lot of low-effort deletions because you keep swearing a lot and being negative and *not* putting those posts in Rant/GD where we keep asking people to put all the venting - but in Gameplay instead, which we're trying to hold to a higher standard these days. As an experiment, I'd recommend trying your *next* Gameplay post without dropping several dozen f-bombs in a torrent of toxicity and see if that one sticks. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: "Your Content Has Been Removed" = You posted something worth reading
You used a racial slur for the Chinese in your last post - the one that got you banned recently, and which you are no doubt upset about. You have *fifteen* deletions in your account history. You may be working on sixteen. This board is not a dumping ground for your racial hatreds and resentments. If you continue to post racial slurs and other forms of hatred, you will be escalated and eventually permanently banned. Have a good day.
: hi, sorry this is not the place for it but i dont use the boards really and i didnt know how to pm or anything. but i wanted to say thank you for looking out for me several weeks ago in my thread about sexism in-game. i stopped checking the thread i made because it was upsetting me and i only went to check it today after people were being sexist to me in a game i just played (for the fourth time since i made that thread). but i saw your comment and just wanted to make sure you knew it was appreciated. i was upset when i made the thread and annoyed i wasnt believed by most. i actually went to the thread just now to show evidence that i was telling the truth but im actually glad it got locked. thank you again.
> [{quoted}](name=wet n wild,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=001b00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-21T12:05:06.315+0000) > > hi, sorry this is not the place for it but i dont use the boards really and i didnt know how to pm or anything. but i wanted to say thank you for looking out for me several weeks ago in my thread about sexism in-game. i stopped checking the thread i made because it was upsetting me and i only went to check it today after people were being sexist to me in a game i just played (for the fourth time since i made that thread). but i saw your comment and just wanted to make sure you knew it was appreciated. i was upset when i made the thread and annoyed i wasnt believed by most. i actually went to the thread just now to show evidence that i was telling the truth but im actually glad it got locked. thank you again. No problem! No thanks are necessary. It is our job to be advocates for this community. {{sticker:slayer-jinx-catface}} However, as I don't want you to get in trouble for what is called "necroing" - resurrecting older threads - if you'd like to communicate with the modteam generally or express these sentiments in the future, I'd like to invite you to the Discord community. It's a great way for users here to communicate with the modteam and build a better Boards experience, and you can usually (but not always, I have a pretty busy day job) find me on Discord. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification I hope you continue to enjoy League and that we can continue to address your concerns!
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T05:19:52.358+0000) > > It was indeed said, I believe it's been deleted. We can see when posts have been deleted. Only one person has a deleted comment in this thread. You're literally just making shit up. It's not possible for people plural to have said that stuff in this thread.
> [{quoted}](name=Worst JG Wins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=001b000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T13:47:44.077+0000) > > We can see when posts have been deleted. Only one person has a deleted comment in this thread. You're literally just making shit up. It's not possible for people plural to have said that stuff in this thread. Then it's quite possible that it was said on another thread. "Here" in my initial quote did not mean this thread; it meant the Boards generally and I'm sorry if there was any confusion. The quote was discussed in the modteam servers close to or around the time this thread was created and team discussions happened around it in any case. I am not making this up or lying to anyone. I have no reason to. We *do* hear "fire the mods" on a regular basis and "dock their pay" certainly showed up somewhere on these Boards the other day. For a volunteer team, that kind of hatred can feel bad to hear.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-11-03T03:49:08.128+0000) > > - but people still keep saying things like "Fire the mods! Dock their pay!" here, seemingly oblivious to the fact that we don't collect any pay and are unpaid volunteers. Nobody in here has said anything remotely close to that. Stop making up lies to play the victim card.
> [{quoted}](name=Worst JG Wins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-11-03T03:59:35.793+0000) > > Nobody in here has said anything remotely close to that. Stop making up lies to play the victim card. It was indeed said, I believe it's been deleted.
: Don't ruin the magic like that. ;w; And sure. Like is there actual scheduling? Or just a kind of "whenever both of us are online and not busy"? If it's the latter, then I assume I just throw you a request over League and exchange discord usernames? Unless you just want to give it here? Idk. Former...Miiiight not work. Actual scheduling tends to fall apart a lot for me.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=000200000001000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-11-03T05:08:11.688+0000) > > Don't ruin the magic like that. ;w; > > And sure. Like is there actual scheduling? Or just a kind of "whenever both of us are online and not busy"? If it's the latter, then I assume I just throw you a request over League and exchange discord usernames? Unless you just want to give it here? Idk. > > Former...Miiiight not work. Actual scheduling tends to fall apart a lot for me. Nope, no formal appointment process as of yet. But you can come to the Discord server and ping @Moderator in #boards-inquiries at any time. Do you know how to do this? If you're able to do it in the next hour or two I'll be happy to handle your pullroom myself. :)
Ulanopo (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T04:23:22.993+0000) > > Oh boy I have a mod assigned just for my reports. I feel so special now. :D > > Jokes aside, I don't feel like I've been reporting *just* because I got in a fight with them. I can certainly see how it'd look a lot like I was, though, given how I tend to...well...do both. A lot. > > You willing to discuss more specific situations where it was like that? Would appreciate not making pointless reports and flooding your queue with things that aren't going to be punished regardless. This is something that should either go to Discuss the Boards or, preferably, the Discord.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T05:00:05.267+0000) > > This is something that should either go to Discuss the Boards or, preferably, the Discord. Roger that. Ula is right - those who would like to have more interaction with us and a greater chance to make their voices heard are definitely encouraged to make use of the [Discord server](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification).
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T02:43:22.005+0000) > > Hey, as long as blatant lying gets removed I'm happy. > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T03:37:09.565+0000) > > I get it, Dusk - but I've also been one of the mods to handle a lot of the reports you've been filing lately, and I can't always agree that your definition of "bullshit" is always limited to objectively false information. There are times you report people just because you get in a fight with that person - that's not going to be any more actionable under the new policy than the old. > > I don't say this to get on your case; I think you also post a great deal of really good debate here! And I certainly agree with your right to ask Ula to include verifiably false information in the things that can be actively curated, if we are going to continue trying to make Gameplay an actively-curated area. So mods i see you responding to this post without um deleting it. It's really weird cause this is basically identical to the post in Discuss the boards in which the special name club said this about "naming and shaming" > [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6heBIhQc,discussion-id=1Qq7fEYo,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-24T21:46:56.479+0000) > > Agreed. > > But when it becomes "You know that one certain someone we all know who..." and someone responds with "does this person also [specific individually identifying habit]" and you respond with "if the person you're thinking of also [second individually identifying habit]," then it is no longer open ended. > > That is what happened here, and why it was removed. Very odd and not at all inconsistent Clearly what we need is more rules when you can't enforce your current ones evenly.
> [{quoted}](name=Worst JG Wins,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=000200000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-11-03T03:54:32.716+0000) > > Clearly what we need is more rules when you can't enforce your current ones evenly. This is only one moderator's opinion - but cutting down on the amount of petty bicker, false reports, et cetera is definitely something that would help us enforce rules and curate content more evenly and consistently. Right now we frequently struggle just to keep up with the moderation queue. I'd like to encourage conversations with our users about how we can better do this. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
: Oh boy I have a mod assigned just for my reports. I feel so special now. :D Jokes aside, I don't feel like I've been reporting *just* because I got in a fight with them. I can certainly see how it'd look a lot like I was, though, given how I tend to...well...do both. A lot. You willing to discuss more specific situations where it was like that? Would appreciate not making pointless reports and flooding your queue with things that aren't going to be punished regardless.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=0002000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T04:23:22.993+0000) > > Oh boy I have a mod assigned just for my reports. I feel so special now. :D > > Jokes aside, I don't feel like I've been reporting *just* because I got in a fight with them. I can certainly see how it'd look a lot like I was, though, given how I tend to...well...do both. A lot. > > You willing to discuss more specific situations where it was like that? Would appreciate not making pointless reports and flooding your queue with things that aren't going to be punished regardless. You don't have an assigned mod, nobody does. :) It just happens I've been moderating the threads in question. I would def be willing to discuss *some* specifics *to the extent we are allowed to*, though I probably need to discuss further with the modteam what that extent is - in general I can't really discuss specifics of other accounts and/or punishments, but we could certainly discuss some the threads you've been involved in recently. Going too far in discussing them in public *would* constitute a naming-and-shaming violation on my part however. Maybe schedule an appointment with me on Discord? You can always just pop in and ping Moderator but I can't promise I'll be around at any given time, I tend to do late night shifts and keep odd hours.
Ulanopo (NA)
: Proposed Rules Update to Gameplay Sub-Board (Feedback Wanted)
It's obvious that one of the pieces of feedback we're getting here is that many people remain unhappy with the moderation program. I will only ask to remind people that we're human. We handle so much every day that most of the Boards never see, including really serious criminal hacks and threats and vicious racism - that's a big reason that our process of curating the *rest* of the material here can feel so harried and imperfect - but people still keep saying things like "Fire the mods! Dock their pay!" here, seemingly oblivious to the fact that we don't collect any pay and are unpaid volunteers. I'll be happy to start a conversation with those who are unhappy about how the moderation program can be improved - maybe on another thread, I'll talk to Ula about it.
: Hey, as long as blatant lying gets removed I'm happy. It just wasn't covered in the suggested rule update. I'm not expecting mods to fact-check every post. Just to verify when someone calls a post out on being bullshit and remove said post if it *is* bullshit.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=00020000000100000000,timestamp=2019-11-03T02:43:22.005+0000) > > Hey, as long as blatant lying gets removed I'm happy. It just wasn't covered in the suggested rule update. > > I'm not expecting mods to fact-check every post. Just to verify when someone calls a post out on being bullshit and remove said post if it *is* bullshit. I get it, Dusk - but I've also been one of the mods to handle a lot of the reports you've been filing lately, and I can't always agree that your definition of "bullshit" is always limited to objectively false information. There are times you report people just because you get in a fight with that person - that's not going to be any more actionable under the new policy than the old. I don't say this to get on your case; I think you also post a great deal of really good debate here! And I certainly agree with your right to ask Ula to include verifiably false information in the things that can be actively curated, if we are going to continue trying to make Gameplay an actively-curated area.
: Resources would be just looking at the comments. If someone proves it in a comment, there. It's proven bullshit. Random people **do it for free** here, you don't need mods to do it. At most they just need to verify it, which is faster than doing the research. And "bullshit" isn't really subjective in the way I'm using it. It can be (e.g. "This champion is bullshit"), but the way I'm using it is "Objectively wrong and/or lying about factual data", such as the statement "Yuumi is at an 80% winrate in SoloQ" or "Yasuo's Q can one-shot at level 2".
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-11-03T01:24:42.827+0000) > > Resources would be just looking at the comments. If someone proves it in a comment, there. It's proven bullshit. Random people **do it for free** here, you don't need mods to do it. At most they just need to verify it, which is faster than doing the research. > > And "bullshit" isn't really subjective in the way I'm using it. It can be (e.g. "This champion is bullshit"), but the way I'm using it is "Objectively wrong and/or lying about factual data", such as the statement "Yuumi is at an 80% winrate in SoloQ" or "Yasuo's Q can one-shot at level 2". You're more than welcome to report information you believe is objectively false and posted to Gameplay. That's probably the best we can offer on that front right now.
iLLp (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-11-02T15:46:49.211+0000) > > Besides, if it was actually a place where real discussion happened, and people didn't just fling shit 24/7, it's a safe bet there'd actually be more Riot interaction. if riot cared about the way these boards were they would have done so from the beginning since THEY have the power to do it themselves. if the mods deem what is currently going on as problematic then they should do something about it since they have the power. so if riot doesn't care why should i care? if the people in charge don't have the balls to make change why should i care? this section is going to continue being the low hanging fruit it is until the people WITH the power to do so actually start making change instead of making pointless threads asking if they should do something about it
> [{quoted}](name=iLLp,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-11-02T16:05:56.513+0000) > > if riot cared about the way these boards were they would have done so from the beginning since THEY have the power to do it themselves. > In my estimation there are many Boards users who haven't created a positive environment for Riot to come interact here over the years. :( We are constantly moderating "fire X Rioter" posts. There are Rioters who *have* lost their jobs over the Boards. The modteam does not speak for Riot - but I might suggest just generally that if the Boards want more Rioters to come play, the Boards have to become a positive environment for them to do so.
: Can this come with removal of *misleading* content as well? Not just clickbait, but deliberately falsified information? Not asking to have a mod fact-check everything, but once someone's proven a post to be purely bullshit, no matter how well-written the post may be, that should warrant removal. Mistakes (Not sorting the right way, accidentally using op.gg instead of a reliable site, or just mis-remembering a number) are one thing, but when someone who hasn't played in months is complaining about their last game that's something else entirely. Also, can I request exceptional harshness on the new content rule? Not necessarily on scope (a new perspective is a new perspective, after all), but on *time* between posts that are too similar. If I can find something that basically says the same thing within 2-3 pages on hot or new, there's no reason for it to exist at all. This forum has been...rather lenient on that in the past. Most common would be the semi-daily "Delet Yasuo W" threads, but then there's any new circlejerk of the month thing.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XPgk5MhA,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-02T14:05:13.511+0000) > > Can this come with removal of *misleading* content as well? Not just clickbait, but deliberately falsified information? > > Not asking to have a mod fact-check everything, but once someone's proven a post to be purely bullshit, no matter how well-written the post may be, that should warrant removal. Mistakes (Not sorting the right way, accidentally using op.gg instead of a reliable site, or just mis-remembering a number) are one thing, but when someone who hasn't played in months is complaining about their last game that's something else entirely. > We just don't have the resources. And "bullshit" can be highly subjective.
: Mod? I'm just being helpful to a forgetful poster, because clearly you had to have misclicked and posted to gameplay on accident. It seems to be a bit of a common occurrence. I blame them putting it right next to gameplay. --- Unless, of course, you *weren't* ranting, and you just completely forgot to back this up with so much as a shred of evidence?
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lqGw1ElE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-30T23:57:51.445+0000) > > Mod? I'm just being helpful to a forgetful poster, because clearly you had to have misclicked and posted to gameplay on accident. > > It seems to be a bit of a common occurrence. I blame them putting it right next to gameplay. > > --- > > Unless, of course, you *weren't* ranting, and you just completely forgot to back this up with so much as a shred of evidence? Cool it, Dusk. He did indeed discuss this thread with me before posting it. There was an original version that was rantier that was indeed deleted.
: The only thing is I don't feel like it was made to be representative, that's why they mostly just get random champions to make it more fun. I think Native Americans would also run weirdly in a universe where angels and demons exist, mostly because the religion that believe in hell also believe anything anyone else worships is just the devil tricking them. I'm not against them trying to make representing skins it's just a I'm far aware of the baggage that Native Americans _in tandum with people with guns_ carries. I would love if maybe they took lots of different mystisim, maybe making one Native American, maybe making TF a fortune teller with Tarot cards and his w could even switch between the major arcarnas, and then you could even have a vodo craft champion. Also it would be nice if they were all chill together, don't make it a super action universe if you did so you can use the spread of positivity and inclusion if anyone gets mad about the mear inclusion of vodo or whatever.
> [{quoted}](name=ProExpertKing,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=xznoKLfq,comment-id=000800010000,timestamp=2019-10-29T12:34:25.896+0000) > > The only thing is I don't feel like it was made to be representative, that's why they mostly just get random champions to make it more fun. I think Native Americans would also run weirdly in a universe where angels and demons exist, mostly because the religion that believe in hell also believe anything anyone else worships is just the devil tricking them. > > I'm not against them trying to make representing skins it's just a I'm far away of the baggage that Native Americans _in tandum with people with guns_ carries. I would love if maybe they took lots of different mystisim, maybe making one Native American, maybe making TF a fortune teller with Tarot cards and his w could even switch between the major arcarnas, and then you could even have a vodo craft champion. Also it would be nice if they were all chill together, don't make it a super action universe if you did so you can use the spread of positivity and inclusion if anyone gets mad about the mear inclusion of vodo or whatever. As we are fond of reminding people: Runeterra isn't Earth. One presumes Runeterra probably has tribal people of some kind, and because it is a setting for imagination, nothing says *anything* about them has to be the same as Earth's. To me these pieces of art are a wonderful conversation starter on those possibilities, and I think many of your ideas are cool as well. :)
: I found FIDDLESTICKS suitable instrument for his Login Theme Song
I'm really glad you showed the community this. :) As I do game design myself from time to time, this kind of technology is incredibly interesting to me and constitutes cutting-edge research in entertainment as far as I'm concerned!
: This is how events should be like
I think if they give this much dosh away all the time hardly anyone will buy anything, but a few more "grand feasts" per decade wouldn't hurt. Certainly an expanded holiday celebration every year with free stuff and discounts for gifts would be a great idea, and doing something like this every five years instead of every ten would feel pretty joyous to me!
: It's not really high noon if they're modled after native americans, especially when their colors and designs suggest more northern tribes (even if the amount of "clothes" don't) I find it unlikely riot will make native americans especially since people freaked out when Phara was given a native american skin when she IS native american. I feel like it might be better to have it a seperate thing from high noon. Like Mystacism Illaoi or something.
> [{quoted}](name=ProExpertKing,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=xznoKLfq,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2019-10-28T20:53:51.406+0000) > > It's not really high noon if they're modled after native americans, especially when their colors and designs suggest more northern tribes (even if the amount of "clothes" don't) > > I find it unlikely riot will make native americans especially people freaked out when Phara was given a native american skin when she IS native american. It would be likely be a shared parallel universe, though, the same way that Resistance goes with the Battlecast skins. The hard thing would be to know what to call it without sparking too much political controversy, as most First Nations-style terms still carry a lot of unwanted political baggage - but it's a fantastic concept and would really help High Noon be more representative of the fulller American West lore and culture it's based from.
Leu07 (NA)
: High Noon Illaoi and Sivir
This deserves attention!
: The honor system should be updated starting season 10
Also, I absolutely agree with the notion that Honor needs to be reworked, expanded, and given a greater role in playing League as I feel it would help remove the level of dishonorable play we're seeing.
Jestraa (NA)
: Riot support doesn't revert bans done by the bot even if they are wrong, they say they will but even in a state where it was wrong the rep went completely out of their way to justify the decision (and enemy team member and i were bantering, because it went over the "40 lines of text" it got auto flagged and because i said "eat a dick" it was bannable even though we both agreed we were just bantering. It make's me think support only gets to see what we say (like what we get to see) not the entire conversation. The system also doesn't look at all toxicity in game for some reason has some dumbass idea that verbal toxicity is what creates the toxic cesspool that is league of legends, when it all stems from people griefing from champ select most of the time, but those aren't the people being punished because there isn't an automatic system to detect them and riot doesn't actually care enough about their player base enough to dedicate a support staff to actually "police" their game. Everyone knows they can soft int/take cs/grief and NEVER be punished if they don't say a word. > And as many people over many seasons do, you've gotten frustrated with your inability to climb, thus have gotten more aggressive and rude in chat to attempt to either reassure yourself that "it isn't my fault i'm not climbing" or to try to get your teammates to magically improve. If you want to climb, you need to work on your own skill, and stop focusing on what other players are doing. No what happens is people get tired of the shitty quality of the game because riot refuses to actually touch the root of toxicity because it would require resources which they're not willing to allocate because they have "THE GOD GIVEN IFS SYSTEM". After doing my own research (yes i understand small pool inaccurate stats w/e) over the past year and a half with reports communication with support staff and follow up's with the player's I've reported out of the 20ish tickets that I've submitted with cases of people actually griefing/boosting/running it down, there was 1 player that actually got punished and that's because there was verbal abuse also. You can sit here and throw riots crap at people all day, it doesn't mean it's what actually happens
> [{quoted}](name=Jestraa,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=j1A9qzg9,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-28T21:00:15.983+0000) > > No what happens is people get tired of the shitty quality of the game because riot refuses to actually touch the root of toxicity because it would require resources which they're not willing to allocate because they have "THE GOD GIVEN IFS SYSTEM". After doing my own research (yes i understand small pool inaccurate stats w/e) over the past year and a half with reports communication with support staff and follow up's with the player's I've reported out of the 20ish tickets that I've submitted with cases of people actually griefing/boosting/running it down, there was 1 player that actually got punished and that's because there was verbal abuse also. > > You can sit here and throw riots crap at people all day, it doesn't mean it's what actually happens I don't think it's that they don't want to help. It's that this is a Free To Play game, that still literally has millions of daily players - and that the percentage of players of every Free To Play game in the world everywhere who just don't give a whatever is *so terribly high*. :( In my own games, I'd estimate that it's entirely possible that a double-digit percentage of the world's gamers display mild to severe sociopathic tendencies in-game - which is consistent with the higher end of studies in that direction, it's certainly known that a non-trivial percentage of the world's people display a *serious* lack of empathy/concern for others and "I do what I want" behavior. I don't know what the right answer is. I'm not sure Normals/casual play *can* ever be fully fixed in F2P until humanity is fixed, which is a generational project no one can ever address in the short term. But I think there's serious room to make changes in the notion that Ranked Play needs to be harder to get into and needs to be a privilege earned more dearly via display of Mastery 5+ on a champion, a certain level of Honor display (disabled possibly under Honor 2 or even 3), and so forth.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KERiEGw3,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-10-21T04:24:01.666+0000) > > As a player who does indeed exercise my "None" ban ability from time to time - I generally will not take a ban when I'm on the last pick, because I want all my options open - I think this is a fine idea, the problem is knowing who to allocate it to. (First in pick order seems fairest as they have the blindest pick.) There's literally 100+ characters on the roster. If you're playing ranked, you're probably not the same skill level with all of them. Keeping every single option open isn't logical.
> [{quoted}](name=Mecha Tom Hanks,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=KERiEGw3,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-10-21T19:40:15.284+0000) > > There's literally 100+ characters on the roster. If you're playing ranked, you're probably not the same skill level with all of them. Keeping every single option open isn't logical. Possibly, but it's also about not giving free information about what position I'm playing and what I don't want to play against to the opposing team, especially in solo queue. There are certain bans that say "This is my position and my playstyle" to the opposing team and to my counterpart there. When that's denied, it becomes easier to attempt to use flex picks to get a favorable matchup. Before you protest - trust me, I don't generally do this unless I'm 1. in solo queue and 2. on what I call the "ulticounter" or last pick, though occasionally I'll do it from a third or fourth pick position if I feel exceptionally confident. But, it does work in certain situations. I've seen it work. And if this suggestion were implemented and my ban could be given to someone else earlier in the pick order who doesn't want to get run over by one of the game's increasingly brutal counterpicks - what's the problem?
: Riot censorship shows obvious anti-western/historical-revisionist bias...
Just to chime in here, there is a very, very simple reason we remove political discussions on the Boards, and it has nothing to do with any kind of bias for or against any political position on our part. ---------- Political discussions here nearly *always* devolve into bitter, furious fights here with no possibility of resolution - and very little in the way of tangible effect on the issues they're trying to bring change to in the first place. ---------- This is our experience more or less no matter what the political issue at hand is. When we allow political debate to remain on the Boards, our moderation queue skyrockets and becomes an unmanageable mess, and lots of people who ordinarily wouldn't get in trouble at all end up getting drawn into bitter terrible fights and say bitter terrible things and then get punished for it and bad feeling rules the day - and League itself doesn't get the attention it deserves. It most definitely doesn't have *anything* to do with the notion that the moderation team is somehow in the tank for the CCP . It's a simple case of "this is not the venue", not some kind of grand conspiracy on our part to shore up repression. Freedom fighting is a wonderful thing, and you're more than welcome to engage in political activism of whatever kind you feel is necessary - outside of these Boards, in venues that are appropriate to political activism. I have spent quite a number of years as a political activist myself - in other and more appropriate venues. I don't bring it here, because that's what Boards policy is - and I understand why that is and I respect it. The Boards are for League. They're not for anything else. Or, as Ula already said: > If you want to change minds or, even better, change the world, please do so. Just do it elsewhere.
Manivia (NA)
: Being able to make use of bans that teammates don't use.
As a player who does indeed exercise my "None" ban ability from time to time - I generally will not take a ban when I'm on the last pick, because I want all my options open - I think this is a fine idea, the problem is knowing who to allocate it to. (First in pick order seems fairest as they have the blindest pick.)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BOjzzllA,comment-id=000c0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-16T10:44:47.366+0000) > > 1. Your post in criticism of Riot was moderated not because of the critical content of Riot - that's allowed - but because of tone, rudeness, and unkindness. In particular the question about people getting fired was almost certainly the particular statement that got you deleted in this case - it is current moderation policy that calls for people to lose their jobs are always removed, because that is something that genuinely hurts people and their lives. We always allow constructive criticism. We don't allow players to sit around calling for people to lose their jobs and suffer actual human harm. That's just what Boards policy is at present. > > 2. Law enforcement is absolutely contacted in cases of the worst threats. We log and report all actionable threats directly to Riot, who make the final call on severity and/or escalation to law enforcement. > > 3. If you have no desire to speak to us, then why are you still speaking to us? I personally have no desire for you to "pity" me as a person or a moderator, I neither want nor need that. I'd like you to feel better about your Boards experience and about playing the game. However, if that becomes impossible and you continue your criticisms in a way that's against Boards policy, I have to moderate you. That's not even my call; it's required by my responsibilities and duties to the moderation program. You are absolutely within your rights to take screenshots of behavior you feel is inappropriate. Calling us a "goon squad" however and continuing to simply be angry without any effort on your end to work with us, constructively, on reform, is going to get you moderated further. Have you ever heard the statement "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar?" It's a metaphor for the notion that criticism that is delivered in kindness and constructively will always produce a better response than anger and calls to hurt people. > > ------------- > > Also, stepping outside the moderator box simply to make this statement as a player, I do box - and I am not afraid of very much I see here. > > Try not to make too many assumptions about us. We're just people. We're not perfect, either. > > Back in moderation-land, I'm sorry you feel you've had bad experiences, but you *have* to calm down and start expressing them more patiently and in kindness or you're heading for further deletions. That's not even particularly my call; just Boards moderation program policy. > > I wish you the best and hope you have a wonderful day. 3 Things..... #1 It is MY post and I am within rights to say or do what I want whether it be toxic or not, free speech at least where I'm from anyways (Whether its's toxic or not a tone is usually ALWAYS based on personal interpretation), so I'm getting preached at for a tone you don't like when whether you like it or not is irrelevant if it follows the rules that's what I care about. And even then YOU chose to comment and take time out of your day to address it I didn't contact any of you and never have and there is an obvious reason for that..... you could've been ignored what I've said and continue on with your day but you chose to jump down this rabbit hole yourself when commenting. You can sensor free speech all you want I'm still gonna post my opinions and so is everyone else so at the end of the day you're fighting a battle that is really unwinnable. And whether I post with "vinegar", "honey", milk, ice cream, soda, celery or whatever grocery item you wanna compare my attitude to as if this a food network board cooking show quote-a-thon that doesn't matter either you can vent frustrations aka according to you "vinegar" and its still viable under the boards rules it says you can criticize within reason so your policing opinions like I said rather than actual legit things. And I didn't threaten anyone I simply stated if YOU as company preach up and down about a 0 TOLERANCE POLICY on toxic in game behavior your company needs to operate the same way. Sorry but that's just what it is. Looks bad for business and ethically. If you are doing things of the nature described by OVER 100 EMPLOYEES... Someone needs to lose their job that's wrong to treat people like that.... Not to mention some of what I read they were doing to these employees was border line illegal so yeah proper ethics is important and following the law you don't do that then at least where I work you can and should lose your job. Never once called for any to get hurt so again putting words in statements never made. And for the record there's no requirement for me to work with any of you as far as I'm aware in league or board policy so if I don't have to I HAVE EVERY RIGHT NOT TO. There's angry people who post on here daily you don't moderate them. That's my point, but because you love this company so much you let that get in the way of what is allowed and what isn't depending on how your days is going is wrong. Put aside your own pride and follow the rules yourselves if players want to post something they're frustrated about IN THE RULES IT SAYS THEY CAN. So you saying I can't post angry is irrelevant because its allowed if I don't have insults, you're just picking posts apart to find ridiculous and biased reasons to take it down due to criticism. -I do a thing called what I want. Since we're quoting and saying things that's a good one. #2 "Goon Squad" is really not a major insult and to be honest when players say "fuck", "shit" etc. on these boards and their posts are still up right now.... Hypocrisy? I'm sure you've heard far worse criticisms and left them alone but since I called you and your team of "moderators out" now its offensive.... Fine then I'll word it this way "Bullies" there you guys are more or less bullies who gang up on people with differing opinions and again go ahead and deny that but not only have I seen it with my eyes and other players on my old device I had screenshots of evidence which as I stated earlier I will be doing because costumers/consumers of a product should not be harassed for criticisms within a respectful manner. I deal with customers with FAR worse tones that what I have and have said WAYYYYY more atrocious things than this more so than not almost on a daily basis its called customer service. But according to you you guys don't work for riot so I guess that does't really apply I suppose. #3 Outside of the player box... MY opinion I don't believe you do box. Nothing personal or trying to be toxic I just don't believe it is all. And vinegar to me is more useful than honey. Honey is loaded with sugar which can lead to diabetes which can lead to a lot of other health issues if not handled with moderation in essence just a sweetener for food. Vinegar is used for natural cleaning, cooking, canning, flavor, and even food preservation. Sorry I'll take vinegar all day any day, more useful in my opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=MrCakePan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BOjzzllA,comment-id=000c00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T07:07:13.937+0000) > > 3 Things..... > > 1 It is MY post and I am within rights to say or do what I want whether it be toxic or not, free speech at least > I do a thing called what I want. Nope! Per Herald-level attention to this thread: > You are only allowed to "say what you want" as long as it's within the boards guidelines - and insulting people is definitely not within the guidelines. Also per Herald-level attention to this thread, it's being locked now. You are not simply allowed to come to the Boards and say whatever toxic thing you want to other community members all the time. You are required to maintain a certain level of respect for other people as defined by our [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE), and if you don't we're going to continue to moderate your posts as necessary. Have a good day!
Fyrijou (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Kq2aGJYG,comment-id=0007000000000000000000000000000000000002,timestamp=2019-10-19T02:05:10.039+0000) > > *cheers this comment* Aren‘t you a Moderator? Isn‘t your Job to give strikes to people that break certain rules of Behavior and etc.? In that sense, you are doing a very poor job. You strike me with reports because i used the word Kid, Kiddo, Hypocrite and MCS. Yes, i used swears, but they were all censored like f-ck or f-king. Yet, i see the people who blatantly harass me with insults get literally nothing done to them. Ironically, the one you applaud for his comment has far more offensive posts than me. There are still posts of him calling me, and i quote: „stop being a fucking quitter“ and nothing is being done about any of that. So it just seems Riot‘s report system, just like the surrender system, is broken and the ones working for them are even worse.
> [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Kq2aGJYG,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000000000020000,timestamp=2019-10-19T19:51:42.677+0000) > > Aren‘t you a Moderator? Isn‘t your Job to give strikes to people that break certain rules of Behavior and etc.? In that sense, you are doing a very poor job. You strike me with reports because i used the word Kid, Kiddo, Hypocrite and MCS. Yes, i used swears, but they were all censored like f-ck or f-king. Yet, i see the people who blatantly harass me with insults get literally nothing done to them. Ironically, the one you applaud for his comment has far more offensive posts than me. There are still posts of him calling me, and i quote: „stop being a fucking quitter“ and nothing is being done about any of that. So it just seems Riot‘s report system, just like the surrender system, is broken and the ones working for them are even worse. Oh, trust me, I almost didn't comment for precisely this reason - because I knew that players who feel the opposite would hate me for taking any position at all on the issue. But Moderators are still community members, and we are still allowed to have opinions about the game as well - and I did agree with this person; League is considered not just a game but a sport, and in any other sport in the world it is considered extremely unprofessional to walk off the field/court/et cetera just because the game isn't going well. ---- Several points here regarding moderation: * You are more than welcome to report *any* comment in which you have been called a "fucking quitter" - that's certainly against the rules, and if you feel you're being moderated unfairly you can register a complaint or a call for review on [Discuss the Boards](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) or the [NA Boards Discord](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) - including one against me as a moderator if that's how you truly feel, though you may want to bear in mind that I'm not the one who did any of your deletions. * We do *not work for Riot*. The NA Boards program is run by *volunteers* who are *not Rioters*. We do *work with Riot* on the most escalated cases but we are an independent program and it's not fair *to* Riot to keep becoming angry *at* Riot for moderator actions. You need to have your grievances *with us* in the appropriate settings.
Kanzler (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Fyrijou,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Kq2aGJYG,comment-id=00070000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-15T18:15:42.409+0000) > > Yes, there are, and those are people like yourself who has a serious case of „MCS“ of what Dr. Metal Janna mentioned. Having people wanting to surrender might be bad, but being an egotistical kill hunter who only cares about yourself is worse. Like yourself. I can imagine, you are definitely the kind of player who refuses a surrender, not because of the possibility of a comeback, but because you yourself only want to stack up the numbers in kills, just to satisfy and help yourself instead of your team. > > Can you for once in your life think of your Team instead of yourself? You're half right. I do never surrender because I win plenty of games after people like you want to rage quit. It's funny how you claim you're putting the team first by wanting to quit and yet complaining that 40% of the team still wanting to play is something attrocious. I'd like you to come up with a list of other team sports where teams have the option to quit because they are sad they're losing.
> [{quoted}](name=Kanzler,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Kq2aGJYG,comment-id=000700000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-15T18:24:22.073+0000) > > I'd like you to come up with a list of other team sports where teams have the option to quit because they are sad they're losing. *cheers this comment*
: Fiddlesticks point-and-click fear is good and deserves to stay, here's why:
I definitely can endorse the notion that it needs to be easy to proc his Fear effect. Maybe not as easy as it is now, but it is a part of his kit. What about an AoE skillshot that increases Fear duration with accuracy?
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:14:52.975+0000) > > Your post was reported. I'm here because it got reported. > > I chose to err on the side of trying to explain the Terms of Use rather than just deleting you, because I feel it's important to engage in productive dialogue with our Boards members in the hopes that people can better understand what our rules are. > > The other option for me is a deletion, because you are potentially in violation of the following [Universal Rule](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE): > > A potential deletion is still on the table if you choose to respond here with hostility instead of reading the rules and understanding them. > > ---- > > For what it's worth, I understand Riot doesn't prosecute every violation of this rule - but that's at their discretion. > > It is still the rule, and it's a Riot-level rule, not one of ours. You live in California to. Where is your tolerance?
> [{quoted}](name=Trump 2o20,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:28:45.300+0000) > > You live in California to. Where is your tolerance? *too ------- My role in moderating these Boards does not allow me to be tolerant of violations of the [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE) and [Terms of Use](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#user-content). Enforcing these rules is part of my work here. I'm sorry this is how you feel, but this is indeed your last warning. If you persist in being angry about this or continue to imply that it's not against the rules, this thread will be deleted.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-18T20:20:42.637+0000) > > Creating unauthorized merchandise is strictly against the Riot Terms of Use: > > From the [Terms of Use](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#user-content): > ** _You also agree that unless we grant you a license, in a signed written contract, you may never use any of our trademarks, service marks, trade names, logos, domain names, taglines, or trade dress._** Any reproduction, redistribution, or modification of the Riot Services, or use of the Riot Services not in accordance with this Agreement, is expressly prohibited and may result in severe civil and/or criminal penalties. Lol. Ok you gonna arrest me for making a shirt? Ok what about the people at the anime expo where half the artwork thet sell is league stuff? I went in 2016 and riot even had a panel why didn't they say anything and tell them to pull it off? Why doesn't riot remove all the listing on etsy of the people who made custom league stuff? What about the million fanfics? The million NSFW images, will riot sue them? Please stop this strawman. You are embarassing yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=Trump 2o20,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-10-18T20:46:45.030+0000) > > Lol. Ok you gonna arrest me for making a shirt? > > Ok what about the people at the anime expo where half the artwork thet sell is league stuff? I went in 2016 and riot even had a panel why didn't they say anything and tell them to pull it off? > > Why doesn't riot remove all the listing on etsy of the people who made custom league stuff? > > What about the million fanfics? The million NSFW images, will riot sue them? > > Please stop this strawman. You are embarassing yourself. Your post was reported. I'm here because it got reported. I chose to err on the side of trying to explain the Terms of Use rather than just deleting you, because I feel it's important to engage in productive dialogue with our Boards members in the hopes that people can better understand what our rules are. The other option for me is a deletion, because you are potentially in violation of the following [Universal Rule](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE): > Advocating Violations of the Rules > Do not post content advocating or soliciting violations of the Terms of Use, Summoner’s Code, or Board Rules. Players encouraging this sort of behavior will be punished as if they had engaged in it themselves. A potential deletion is still on the table if you choose to respond here with hostility instead of reading the rules and understanding them. ---- For what it's worth, I understand Riot doesn't prosecute every violation of this rule - but that's at their discretion. It is still the rule, and it's a Riot-level rule, not one of ours.
Zac x Me (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-18T20:20:42.637+0000) > > Creating unauthorized merchandise is strictly against the Riot Terms of Use: > So it's alright to leave this picture up, meanwhile a picture of Renekton and Nasus just hugging eachother got deleted, gg.
> [{quoted}](name=Zac x Me,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=nUAlq1Lq,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-10-18T21:04:17.504+0000) > > So it's alright to leave this picture up, meanwhile a picture of Renekton and Nasus just hugging eachother got deleted, gg. This post may still get deleted, I'm on the fence about it.
: I thought of making this into a shirt, what do you guys think?
Creating unauthorized merchandise is strictly against the Riot Terms of Use: From the [Terms of Use](https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/legal/termsofuse#user-content): > 3.2. Can I do stuff with Riot’s intellectual property? (We reserve all the rights to our IP, but do allow for some personal, non-commercial uses like fan art.) > We (and our licensors) own and reserve all rights and title in and to the Riot Services, and all data and content included therein, including, user accounts, computer code, titles, objects, artifacts, characters, character names, chat logs, Game recordings and broadcasts, locations, location names, stories, dialog, catch phrases, artwork, graphics, structural or landscape designs, animations, sounds, musical compositions and recordings, Riot Points (defined below), Blue Essence (defined below), Hextech Items (defined below), Virtual Goods (defined below), audio-visual effects, character likenesses, methods of operation and gameplay (collectively, “Game Content”)._** You can’t create any work of authorship based on the Game Content or Riot Services except as expressly permitted by us.**_ For more info about what uses we currently permit, please read our Legal Jibber Jabber policy. > ** _You also agree that unless we grant you a license, in a signed written contract, you may never use any of our trademarks, service marks, trade names, logos, domain names, taglines, or trade dress._** Any reproduction, redistribution, or modification of the Riot Services, or use of the Riot Services not in accordance with this Agreement, is expressly prohibited and may result in severe civil and/or criminal penalties. >
Nonic (NA)
: There needs to be study as to why there is such a shallow pool of talent in NA. The NA community needs to start coming together and helping others realize their skill potential, simple competition or just saying "Git Gud" isn't going to cut it. There are a lot of players out here that have absolutely no idea how to play pvp (myself included).
It's not THAT bad, at least we have a team in the final stage still - and I do think TL earned it this year, C9 is usually my team but TL's just been playing at a higher level in 2019. I think our continental sins are those of impatience and greed. I think we're not as patient as other continents and our fundamentals aren't as good. Even our pros play far ahead of their wave/counterjungle too early/et cetera. NA players want to play League like Street Fighter, and no matter how many times I try I can't get people to listen to me about how bad this is. :(
: why do sexists not get punished?
EDITED BY ULANOPO - I don't want to unpin this comment, as I think it approaches the topic appropriately. However, this thread has to be locked. Thank you. _______________________ 1. I want to express my personal regret as a Moderator that as a female player of League you've had these experiences. :( I feel your pain. I'm part-Jewish and have been subjected to such things as Holocaust jokes in lobby. Unfortunately, a lot of this has a lot more to do with the fact that League is among the most popular videogames in the world than it does with the notion that Riot is sexist or "doesn't care" - I do have a Rioter acquaintance, and while we do *not* speak for Riot I will say that in my estimation a lot of this is *not* coming top-down from Riot but bottom-up because League is played in a lot of places where human rights are not yet a concern. Better punishment of those making rape jokes, genocide jokes, and so forth is *absolutely* among the priority set for League as far as I know and certainly it is among our priorities here - the issue is that the Boards have thousands of active users, and League millions of active players, and unfortunately not all of the people in our world act appropriately or have the level of concern for others that we'd like. 2. Riot does not run the Boards. The Boards Moderation program runs the Boards - a volunteer organization that is *not* composed of Rioters. So if this is anger over the Scott Gelb controversy, et cetera., this is the wrong place for that. You can file Support Tickets to be in contact with Riot over in-game issues, or Riot culture issues, or you can post here about what you believe are failures in the moderation program - but the Boards moderators have no power to affect in-game accounts, nor does Riot directly moderate here, so it's a bad idea to rope it all into one arena. 3. Sexist comments are absolutely among the comments that may be moderated off these Boards. Rape jokes and rape threats are zero-tolerance here and generally in-game as well - we can't speak for Riot on in-game issues, but if you see serious rape comments in-game and file an automated postgame report and nothing is done, you're well within your rights to file a Support Ticket too (screenshots will help in this case). And if you see evidence of sexism *on the Boards* that is not being moderated, please respond to me here or join us on the [NA Boards Moderation Discord](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification) and a mod will be happy to address your concerns. We are doing our absolute best to address this stuff. But we - and indeed Riot as well - are human and we don't always succeed, particularly at reforming many thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands, of people worldwide who are angry/misled/genuinely evil who play this free-to-play game and abuse the privilege. I'd like to personally extend an offer to start a conversation with you here about things you think might help. I'm sorry you've been hurt.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BOjzzllA,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T21:45:55.719+0000) > > Thank you for your opinion. > > I'm sorry you feel you've had a bad experience with the moderation program. > > If you feel it's necessary to begin calls for moderator review, you absolutely have the right to do so. > > Again, the moderation Discord is open for those who have complaints: > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification 3 things.... #1 Don't insinuate/assume and flip my argument into me being a bully accusation because I'm not.... and just to make your people look better in this situation which makes no sense. And do not lump me in with these crazy players who threaten to assault you over a video game I never once on this EVER eluded to that so don't bring that bs up on me as if I threatened you or anyone else on here physically because I haven't and never have or will. #2 If there's criminal behavior on here contact law enforcement especially for VIOLENT THREATS WTF are guys handling it in house for?!!!! You should contact law enforcement immediately... I'm not 100% but I'm pretty sure threatening assault is a felony.... smh. #3 Like I said I have no interest in speaking to people like you guys. I have the names of a few of your people and what they've said on posts make sure you keep that same energy when you get contacted to answer for the comments and censoring you do of customers. And I'm gonna start screen shotting some of the harassment fellow players take for criticizing a game they wanna see better. And as I said from here on out I will be screen shotting some of these comments from these so called "Moderators"that are harassing and demeaning fellow players and see what Riot thinks of that because I've witnessed toxic posts by your people but then delete their comments to save face and also have falsely claimed to work for Riot (Hence where I got the idea that you guys worked for Riot because one of these moderators claimed they did and then deleted his comment before i could report but i do have his summoner name.) Sad that they have have a goon squad who doesn't get a penny to harass/demean subscribers what a joke. And you want me to feel pity for you guys when you guys get threatened by other summoners after I've seen the way some of you speak to people on here? LMAO! Take up boxing that should help your fears a little bit.... You don't want them to threaten you with violence (though that is ridiculous and crazy on their part and you should've reported it to law enforcement) don't kick the hornets nest and start insulting their intelligence or throw in snarky comments to get a rise out of them or do petty things online lol. Because off this forum you wouldn't ever think of doing that to their face so why do it on here? Just saying that's encouraging that kind of ridiculous behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=MrCakePan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BOjzzllA,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-16T09:17:14.852+0000) > > 3 things.... > 1. Your post in criticism of Riot was moderated not because of the critical content of Riot - that's allowed - but because of tone, rudeness, and unkindness. In particular the question about people getting fired was almost certainly the particular statement that got you deleted in this case - it is current moderation policy that calls for people to lose their jobs are always removed, because that is something that genuinely hurts people and their lives. We always allow constructive criticism. We don't allow players to sit around calling for people to lose their jobs and suffer actual human harm. That's just what Boards policy is at present. 2. Law enforcement is absolutely contacted in cases of the worst threats. We log and report all actionable threats directly to Riot, who make the final call on severity and/or escalation to law enforcement. 3. If you have no desire to speak to us, then why are you still speaking to us? I personally have no desire for you to "pity" me as a person or a moderator, I neither want nor need that. I'd like you to feel better about your Boards experience and about playing the game. However, if that becomes impossible and you continue your criticisms in a way that's against Boards policy, I have to moderate you. That's not even my call; it's required by my responsibilities and duties to the moderation program. You are absolutely within your rights to take screenshots of behavior you feel is inappropriate. Calling us a "goon squad" however and continuing to simply be angry without any effort on your end to work with us, constructively, on reform, is going to get you moderated further. Have you ever heard the statement "You catch more flies with honey than you do with vinegar?" It's a metaphor for the notion that criticism that is delivered in kindness and constructively will always produce a better response than anger and calls to hurt people. ------------- Also, stepping outside the moderator box simply to make this statement as a player, I do box - and I am not afraid of very much I see here. Try not to make too many assumptions about us. We're just people. We're not perfect, either. Back in moderation-land, I'm sorry you feel you've had bad experiences, but you *have* to calm down and start expressing them more patiently and in kindness or you're heading for further deletions. That's not even particularly my call; just Boards moderation program policy. I wish you the best and hope you have a wonderful day.
: > [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EuhGLMeB,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-10-15T17:39:46.376+0000) > > Ditto. I am simultaneously frustrated and disappointed with myself. Cheer up man, I am sure if you present your hard mod work to Riot, they'll give you a little honor kickback, right?
> Cheer up man, I am sure if you present your hard mod work to Riot, they'll give you a little honor kickback, right? That is totally not how moderation works, we don't receive in-game privileges of any kind for our work on this program - nor should we, arguably.
: ***
> How can someone who literally got their soul pulled out of their body, {{champion:41}} *coughs* >their body now being a lifeless corpse which has rotted and buried, magically just come back? {{champion:555}} : "You tell me."
Saezio (EUNE)
: You can send your counter to vlad's lane? like what? If he goes top to avoid the zed, you send the zed top
I mean, teams with active, polished teamwork can certainly lane swap. Solo queue though... I don't mean to be negative, but things are what they are in solo pubs sometimes. :)
Saezio (EUNE)
: Mid {{champion:84}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:518}} {{champion:142}} They just destroy him in lane. You just need to perma all in him. He can't do anything early, ANYTHING
A lot of laners can starve {{champion:8}} in both mid and top early on, but the fact that he is a flex pick and you don't always know where he's going (in pros he's even played as a botlane carry from time to time) means it's not always trivial to ensure a counterpick.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: I mean I haven't watched any pro play for a very long time but I feel like vlad is probably played a shitload in pro
I have been binge-watching Worlds 2019, and {{champion:8}} is currently pick-or-ban in an astonishing number of games at this Worlds across pretty much all of League's regions worldwide. I don't know that I'd go with "a problem" - he doesn't seem to be too applecart-upsetting there and seems balanced, if extremely powerful. But he's def among the best champs to take to any pro match lately, at least if the choices of current pros seem to be any indication. ----------- As a bit of history, {{champion:8}} is a really cool unique champion but has always presented balance problems for the game. As I understand it, he's the main reason Spellvamp was largely eliminated as a concept and we all can't buy things like Will of the Ancients anymore - which is unfortunate in my opinion as the replacements ( {{item:3812}} {{item:3146}} ) kind of fell into that role by accident and as a result have introduced balance problems across a wide variety of champions. Bear in mind, this isn't a diss at the balance team from me - I have worked on making games myself before, and it is a *lot* harder to successfully balance a game than people think. I think {{champion:8}} is a wonderful unique champion that adds a lot to the game. He's just...really hard to balance. Drain tanking as a concept is really hard to balance - this is a main reason {{champion:50}} utterly mutated last year as well - and {{champion:8}} is the king of that particular hill and in some sense often feels very bad to lose to as a result.
: > [{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Wm8E7yci,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-13T14:20:46.068+0000) > > Go play Xin Zhao. He's the same thing as old Aatrox with just as little of a personality. {{champion:11}} You mean this dude, aside the different W.
I don't think either of these champs qualifies. Melee diving + lifesteal != old {{champion:266}} just on its own. Blood Well management was a very unique, enjoyable, skill-based mechanic that gave him a unique feel unlike any other champion, and with which he could do things unlike any other champion from a very early level if played correctly. I miss him too, for what it's worth. And I think it is among the more unfortunate timing on reworks - he was reworked because he had temporarily fallen out of favor and was considered a "failed" design, but quite literally just as his rework was being released he had already become pick-or-ban in the pros again due to shifts in the meta and quite possibly would not have been remembered as "failed" at all if that meta had been allowed to progress.
: Illaoi is like the least known champion in the game.
{{champion:420}} falls off very heavily against enemy teams that know her kit and respect her, and dodge her Test of Spirit. Lots of her tentacle hits are also indeed dodgeable, even during her ult, though it takes *extremely* skilled players to dodge three or more tentacles - but I have seen it. She also gets countered in lane by skilled players on ranged champs, which severely limits her blind pick potential against really good teams. As a result of these things she is rarely seen in professional play. I play her, so this is not a diss - she is in my mind one of the strongest solo-queue pure laning counter-diver and counter-juggernaut counterpicks, as it is arguable she is the "juggernautiest" of all the juggernauts. The only other champions that can stand toe to toe with her in a melee fight when her ult is up are arguably the hard late game scaling melee champs ({{champion:31}} {{champion:10}} {{champion:75}}), and generally only with a lot of stacks/levels - she's generally much stronger in early/midgame. And as you noted, she absolutely does belong to that class of champions who utterly delete players who don't understand what she does. It's mildly concerning to hear that so many Platinum players don't actually fall into that category though, and does make me wonder why - boosting/illegal account sharing or sales have been a problem, but I also sometimes wonder if things go deeper and if ELO has fundamental flaws in team games that it does not in the single-player matches and ladders it was developed for (chess in particular).
: > [{quoted}](name=XxXGwanXxX,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=dI1MAjiM,comment-id=000d000400010000,timestamp=2019-10-02T21:53:51.866+0000) > > Would you consider saying "my ngga you sooo gud" to be racism ? Even when said by a black person to one of his friend ? My point is that sometimes people will be offended for others even tho they shouldn't be. What if the observer is also black and refuses to accept the -ga version of the word because he has personally been called that as an insult? Not all black people consider it a viable distinction. Just because you and your friend are fine with certain colorful language directed at each other doesn't mean others are offended *for* you. They may be offended because of personal experiences, and telling them they shouldn't be isn't your call. My cousins and I call each other racially insensitive things in private. We absolutely will not do this in front of random Asians. It would be completely reasonable for them to be pissed at us. Solution: don't say things to your friends in team/all chat that you know some people find offensive. Keep it to /msg or voice chat.
These are all good points, people. There are no easy answers. They relate to a problem as old as humanity, that the Romans called "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?" - "Who watches these watchmen?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quis_custodiet_ipsos_custodes%3F Ultimately, one reaches a point where there is no further chain of command and the watchmen are policed only by themselves. That's not a good way to run any railroad - but it's also inextricable from the problem. There is no one perfect entity up the chain that can ever come down and fix everything. It's all run by imperfect authorities in the end, because humans are not perfect. >That is fair but who decides what is a real threat or cyberbullying or racism ? Right now, we do - at least on the Boards. And where we don't (in-game issues and/or serious escalated cases), Riot does. And we are *all* human beings, and not perfect. I hate to keep saying that, but it's true. A big part of our moderator training has to do with scanning context - we really do try to separate joking around from genuine hostile intent. Hostile intent is one of the biggest things that will get any post taken down, no matter what the actual issue is about. >Solution: don't say things to your friends in team/all chat that you know some people find offensive. Keep it to /msg or voice chat. This is actually really good advice - see my points about context above. "Know your audience" is one of the first things taught in any public speaking class. ---------- There is no perfect answer to these problems. But there are imperfect answers, and they start with more engagement between users and moderators and building more community so that the Boards feel less like a free-for-all and more like a place where people come to be kind, have fun, help support each other, and promote a teaching environment about the game. [Discuss the Boards](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) is always a great place to make suggestions on ways you think the current process is broken and how those problems can be fixed.
: "public forums." "within their own property" So what is facebook in all this ? Is it a private property or a public forum ? What about twitter ? You know, the platform that was LEGALLY determined to be PUBLIC, so much so that the PRESIDENT cannot block people from his account anymore. It could be argued it's both, What happens now ? Just because the laws are obsolete and behind the times doesn't make censorship right. What do you consider a "public forum" ? How are boards not a "public forum" ? It's free and anyone can join with basically no effort, how is this not a "public forum? Do you see where I am going with this ? "all powers not expressly given to the government are reserved to the people via the Tenth Amendment." And you don't see how that could be a problem when it comes to the monopoly on public forums and platforms like facebook and twitter ? These things are basically modern Agoras, why are they not considered public forums ? I know the answer is "that's the law" so we come back to my first point. "Just because the laws are obsolete and behind the times doesn't make censorship right. "
>How are boards not a "public forum" ? It's free and anyone can join with basically no effort, how is this not a "public forum? You've touched on a good point: This is, despite being a forum intended for the public, properly not a public forum in the legal sense. It's a discussion taking place on private servers, which legally makes it a private forum. There are not a lot of genuine public forums in the legal sense on the Internet - all servers have to be hosted, after all. Someone usually owns them. When it is the government, it is generally an actually public forum and has a higher level of First Amendment protections. However, even there, there are lines and limits - no threats, no illegal pornography, and no shouting "Fire!" in a crowded theater (so to speak). >And you don't see how that could be a problem when it comes to the monopoly on public forums and platforms like facebook and twitter ? How much power do you all think we have? We aren't Facebook or Twitter. Therefore, we can't comment on Facebook or Twitter policies. Once again - we aren't even Rioters. We can only comment on the Boards program. We cannot be a recourse for anger over society's many larger conflicts between free speech and civic order. We can only do the best we can, here. >I know the answer is "that's the law" so we come back to my first point. >"Just because the laws are obsolete and behind the times doesn't make censorship right. " I understand your perspective - but just because racial slurs, violent threats, and other forms of cyberbullying are free speech does not make *them* right either. And if we make the decision to allow them, we feel strongly that the Boards become a worse place to be, as well as genuinely dangerous. There is *always* a legal line somewhere between freedom of speech and disturbing the peace, even in the most speech-protected societies. Most people want their speech to be protected, no matter what it is - and it's a fine thing in any society to allow as much speech to be protected as possible - but people want to be able to go into a room full of strangers and hurl slurs and threats at them, too. And as much as the person existing in that anger wants that anger to be validated and that speech to be protected, it generally just isn't - because it threatens the well-being of other people. When speech here crosses the line into violence or threats, or prejudicial hatred of other people over race, gender, or other things beyond their control, or anything else that badly violates our [Universal Rules](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/ITFIpNUE), we are going to continue to moderate it. ---- (Also, please don't mistake my statements here as a moderator for my personal views on the First Amendment outside of this program. You might be surprised at how fervent an advocate I am personally on free speech issues when it's outside of my work here.)
KABLUMP (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaliCoastReplay,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=dI1MAjiM,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-10-01T01:53:41.924+0000) > > A few notes on this, since First Amendment/free speech topics seem to be trending on the Boards lately: > > First off, I must remind everyone that the Boards program is not Riot, mods/Heralds/etc. are not Rioters, and this post is *not* in any way an official legal notice from Riot nor does it apply to in-game issues as we only moderate the Boards. > > ---- > We absolutely attempt to allow as much free speech and self-expression as possible, but ensuring the safety of our players comes first. Safety from what? Also imagine being so narcissistic that you'd pin your own comment
>Also imagine being so narcissistic that you'd pin your own comment It's actually official moderation policy to pin any mod comments on Player Behavior that are intended for a wide audience. If it were up to me personally, I'd just let my comments exist wherever they exist.
Tentaku (EUNE)
: Sorry, but you _either_ promote freedom of speech and expression, or you ban people to protect other people feelings. Harsh reality is you can't have both - even if the post you moderate out is clearly racist/homophobic/whatever, you are still silencing a person because of what _you_ think is right (well, not you personally, but Rito). There is no middle ground - you can't both support freedom of speech and protect people from certain kinds of speech. To be clear, I do think it is an OK thing to do (cutting out racist content and similar, for a private company), but if you do you shouldn't pretend that freedom of speech in your medium has any value for you (or the company) - because if there is a person/group deciding _which_ kinds of speech are OK, it defies the very purpose of freedom of speech.
We take action against the worst offenders in order to protect a lot more than just "feelings". We do it to protect property and lives in the worst cases. Some of the worst of our offenders post genuinely actionable, violent threats, or commit legitimately criminal hacks. Also, once again - the Boards program is not "Rito", and we are not Rioters. Those who have a grievance with the Boards moderation program would be best served to take it up with us specifically using one of the methods linked above (DtB or Discord), and to not simply blame Riot.
: A few notes on this, since First Amendment/free speech topics seem to be trending on the Boards lately: First off, I must remind everyone that the Boards program is not Riot, mods/Heralds/etc. are not Rioters, and this post is *not* in any way an official legal notice from Riot nor does it apply to in-game issues as we only moderate the Boards. ---- >Text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ---- The First Amendment is an extremely important principle which protects American citizens from legislation (and, implicitly, prosecution) *by the United States Congress* over their freedom of speech. It is crucial in preserving Americans' right to open, honest public debate in civic and public forums. However, even under the First, certain kinds of speech are *not protected* - generally speaking, this includes violent threats, extreme pornography, and speech designed to violently or maliciously disturb the peace - the classic example of this third category being shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater. The First also does not remove the right of private entities to determine rules *within their own property* which create a safe and healthy environment, including rules governing speech. And unless a state or city has superseding laws itself, all powers not expressly given to the government are reserved to the people via the *Tenth* Amendment. ---- TL:DR: The Boards program is not Congress. We absolutely do have the right and power to moderate or censor speech which creates an unsafe environment for our players, and we will continue to do so. We absolutely attempt to allow as much free speech and self-expression as possible, but ensuring the safety of our players comes first.
I bring these things up mostly because, while most of what the original post says is well-intentioned, our intent as a program is not to be one where our users need to be "protected" *from us* - it's supposed to be one where *we help to protect the community*. We are human and imperfect, so we don't always succeed perfectly, but overall this is why we moderate what we moderate. And when community members feel we're failing in that duty, they have the right to tell us on [Discuss The Boards](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation) or our [Discord channel](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/community-moderation/7rtKBZLi-boards-moderation-discord-verification). ---- I also want to note as one final point that League is an international game. Whether or not the U.S. Constitution even applies at all to players playing a game outside of the States or to our Boards programs in other countries is very dubious. We do try to promote freedom of speech and self-expression on the NA Boards, but overall, assuming an American viewpoint on everything regarding this game is not really a good idea as League is played all over the world.
Lost R (NA)
: First Amendment rights don't protect you from privately owned companies.
A few notes on this, since First Amendment/free speech topics seem to be trending on the Boards lately: First off, I must remind everyone that the Boards program is not Riot, mods/Heralds/etc. are not Rioters, and this post is *not* in any way an official legal notice from Riot nor does it apply to in-game issues as we only moderate the Boards. ---- >Text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ---- The First Amendment is an extremely important principle which protects American citizens from legislation (and, implicitly, prosecution) *by the United States Congress* over their freedom of speech. It is crucial in preserving Americans' right to open, honest public debate in civic and public forums. However, even under the First, certain kinds of speech are *not protected* - generally speaking, this includes violent threats, extreme pornography, and speech designed to violently or maliciously disturb the peace - the classic example of this third category being shouting "fire!" in a crowded theater. The First also does not remove the right of private entities to determine rules *within their own property* which create a safe and healthy environment, including rules governing speech. And unless a state or city has superseding laws itself, all powers not expressly given to the government are reserved to the people via the *Tenth* Amendment. ---- TL:DR: The Boards program is not Congress. We absolutely do have the right and power to moderate or censor speech which creates an unsafe environment for our players, and we will continue to do so. We absolutely attempt to allow as much free speech and self-expression as possible, but ensuring the safety of our players comes first.
: The Constitution, Right to Free Speech! This is America!
>Text of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution > >Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. ----- As many have noted, the First Amendment establishes that Congress itself may not legislate against the right to free speech. This is important as it unquestionably protects the right of citizens to avoid persecution *by the government* over exercising freedom of speech *in civic and public arenas*. The First Amendment *does not* restrict the right of private entities to establish rules for safety *within their own establishments*, which most definitely includes the right to deny service to those who are disturbing the peace. See also: >Text of the Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution > >The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people. ----- TL:DR: The Boards program is not Congress. We absolutely do have the right to moderate problematic speech that creates an unsafe environment for our players and will continue to do so.
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CaliCoastReplay

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