: Ugliest champion in the game?
Kids these days thinking {{champion:36}} & {{champion:77}} are bad. Google what old {{champion:29}} looked like.
Juice (EUNE)
: Same thing happened with Swain
The real issue is his kit is just ridiculously inconsistent and instead of making his e more reliable by giving it a recast like {{champion:136}} or {{champion:161}} qs, they just decided 'hey let's put cheesy high damage in his q, that'll balance it out.'
Rioter Comments
Destaice (NA)
: "Yu-Gi-Oh was a good anime"
: Maybe the W could be changed so that it just increases your AS by 1.75, surpassing the AS cap.
Surpassing the AS cap with anything winds up being really unhealthy to the game, we saw that with {{champion:96}} rework
Delibird (EUW)
: Urgot has been hovering around 50.5-51% winrate for quite a while now. Just because his winrate fell by ~0.75% doesnt mean he needs buffs. Especially when its still above 50%. If further changes to items do hurt him he will receive due compensation. But theres no reason to minirework a champs W, when there are other matters that need addressing.
>there are other matters that need addressing That might be a valid excuse if Riot was still a small indie company that could only take on problems one at a time, but last time I checked that wasn't the case. And what I'm asking for isn't really a buff but a change to give him more variety to build paths.
1eone1 (NA)
: urgot doesn't need buffs dude you just need a different build or build path so that you get some attack speed prob triforce
You can't build attack speed is my point because you're pretty much always in W form which means you lose a huge chunk of gold from your items value. It's not a buff I'm asking for, it's a change to make taking items like triforce viable if the situation demands it.
Delibird (EUW)
: Champs pretty balanced rn. Not weak, not strong. I'd hate to see him get changes just for the sake of changes.
He's already taken a dip in winrates as riot begins to introduce nerfs to items and trees for control on ranged champions, and it's just going to go further as they introduce more, indirectly hurting a champion in a pretty decent state.
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7OqiWAFE,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-03-13T04:20:20.333+0000) > > His W actually had AS scaling before he shipped. It was removed because it led to a lot of really fragile builds that pretty heavily compromised his ability to survive encounters. That said... it feels like he's getting the short end of the stick with a lot of items in the shop right now (Sterak's going melee only, Frozen Mallet ranged user nerf, etc.), so perhaps something like that is in order. > > There are actually quite a few things I'd like to clean up on him, but I don't want to play favorites :) Got a suggestion here. Make it so that Urgot is a melee but his Auto attacks are treated as ranged. That way his can't use {{item:3077}} or it's upgrades passive (but does gain their stats) while also being able to use {{item:3053}} 's again and get full benefits from {{item:3022}} Tricky business but it would make urgot more of a juggernaut if that happened.
If you thought last hitting was hard for him before with the creep block, imagine what it'd be like if he had to get in melee range to farm.
: now that bruisers are being made usable again, and also that for some reason the balance team has a hard on for adcs, it would only make sense for a bruiser adc to be getting the favorite child treatment ;-;
: He isnt forced into one build path you can knowingly take a build path that is anti synergistic that doesnt mean it shouldnt be there. I was opposed to this with Jhin as it makes the gimmick that they have on his passive irrelevant especially when his attack speed naturally reaches where other adcs attack speed reach with 1 attack speed item. This is similar to saying melee tanks and fighters are having a bad time and in terms of soaking damage so let them get hp for building ad or ap it fixes problems opens up build paths but its an arbitrary fix for the champions with out taking into account people playing against it. I find urgots ult to be far too powerful exicuting tanks at 25-30% of their max hp
It's always below 25% of their hp that it triggers. Furthermore, if you're below 25% of your hp as any champion and you're hanging around in a place where you can get hit by a pretty easy to dodge skillshot, you kind of signed yourself up for what happens next. And speaking of tanks you bring up the point you miss which is Urgot has no real way to itemize against high cc tanks which is the reason I'm proposing this be added; he can't build tank and outlast them, his standard build is being clipped to the point where he can't even kite tanks and proc his passive with {{item:3022}}, he can't take {{item:3036}} since he has to build some form of hp, and he can't take {{item:3078}} or {{item:3153}} since they both have attack speed built into them and he loses heavy value in stats for it since he's always in w.
: > [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7OqiWAFE,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-03-13T04:20:20.333+0000) > > There are actually quite a few things I'd like to clean up on him, but I don't want to play favorites :) You should do it. _Someone_ at Riot should play favorites for a "niche" champ like him. Lord knows the skins team will be ignoring him for the foreseeable future.
We got Crabgot which is basically the cheapest Legendary skin in the game, I'm pretty content for now there.
: {{champion:6}} is kind of in limbo right now. He’s good at using S H O T G U N K N E E S to kill people, but tanks like {{champion:14}} still out damage him with just a bit of armor.
And that's the real issue; he has no real way to itemize again heavy cc tanks. He can't take {{item:3036}} since he pretty much always builds SOME form of hp ({{item:3071}} or {{item:3022}}) and he can't take {{item:3153}} since so much of the value is dependent on your autos.
: They both also have down times where they can not attack, urgot does not. If his W had AS scaling he wouldn't have a weak window (when his W is on CD) Cause u would get AS items and hit nearly just as hard out of W as in W.
Urgot cant attack when his W is active, and his weak window is actually when he misses his e and q, since he won't be able to lock onto you with his W in lane and get his damage off. As for how he hits when his W is off, unless he landed his E his fighting is pretty abysmal with just autos since he has to rotate around his target to proc his legs, so increased attack speed there won't make him hit much harder.
: and gold IV is so much better? http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=N%C4%B1l here's one of my OP.GG from last year. don't accuse people based on elo
Okay then, I really tried to reason with you... but go ahead, think what you will. Just handed you a pretty comprehensive guide to laning against {{champion:6}}, but if you wanna just insist you flat out can't beat this champion or any ranged champion even though you have the potential to negate pretty much all their damage with {{champion:98}} W, good luck I guess.
: you obviously haven't played toplane then. at toplane range is king.
In Silver II where people don't know the strength of their own champions range might be strong, but not in the actual meta. In top lane tanks and anything that abuse klepto is king.
: What I'm saying is that his W already has pretty carefully tuned synergy with on-hits. Scaling the damage with attackspeed would disrupt this tuning - his W would get damage from the on-hit _and_ damage from the attackspeed. While this is how most champions scale with on-hit effects, it could throw Urgot's tuning in to complete disarray.
Every other champion in the game that builds an item with attack speed and an on-hit effects get value from both parts of the item by gaining **bonus attack speed** and ***the on hit effect.** Normally you could argue that {{champion:6}} gets value from attack speed simply by gaining faster attack speed, but **as a player who mains and has actually played games on Urgot,** I'm telling you that his attack speed is irrelevant in teamfight because his W is the only real practical method of doing damage in fights. As such, he needs any attack speed he builds to be reflected in his W, which it currently is not.
CatSith (NA)
: If anything they should make the AS convert into the shield strength. He doesn't need more damage.
Even though what it converts into is irrelevant, damage would probably be the most straightforward thing for it. It doesn't even have to be alot, or the damage can be tweaked to account for it, it just needs to be enough that if I one to take maybe one item that has attack speed (maybe {{item:3153}} if I want to fight tanks better, maybe {{item:3078}} if I need more dueling potential) it'll mean I'm at least getting roughly the same damage from it that any other champion would instead of half a dead item.
: Attackspeed juggernauts are kinda a mess though. Do you really want him to have to be rebalanced around powerful synergy with on-hit items?
He already procs on-hit effects with, just at 33% effectiveness, but he's unable to build half the on-hit items he should have access to ({{item:3078}} for example) because half of them don't account for a locked attack speed, which is essentially what {{champion:6}} W is. Granted, its a pretty fast attack speed, but he's still missing out on a huge chunk of gold value because of it.
: that's not the problem though, urgot is ranged, which gives him free harass in lane, and his CC can cancel shen ult, his own ult is unaffected by shen ult as shields don't affect execute threshold. what you basically have is a ranged darius without an ult reset.
>urgot is ranged Get in his face and play more aggressively before you give him kills or before he ticks you down. You will come out ahead in literally every trade if you use your abilities properly. >his cc can cancel shen ult Any cc cancels shen ult, that's pretty easy to avoid if you channel it away from them. >his own ult is unaffected by shen ult It's a pretty easy to dodge skillshot so the reward of a guaranteed execute when it hits at the right threshold is a fair payoff It really just sounds to me like you know a lot less about {{champion:98}} or {{champion:6}}s kits than you think you do, but I've stacked a lot of games on both of these champs and I can tell you a practiced shen playing to the best of his ability will beat an urgot any day of the week.
: > [{quoted}](name=ampheon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RQ5nBHwb,comment-id=00030002,timestamp=2018-03-12T18:26:43.851+0000) > > This 'trouble making pubstomper' can be dealt with through {{item:3123}} {{item:3033}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3076}} {{item:3075}} Stats mean nothing? The fact he wins more than half of his games across all elos going as high as 54% in gold and even at the absolute low point in diamond he's still at 51%, and actually has higher ban rate the higher elo he goes (and him getting banned more often in high elo is pretty much the sole reason why he has lower pick rate in high elo, because his total combined rate of his pick/ban is pretty consistent across all elo sitting at about 20-25%), doesn't signify any problem with him whatsoever? Okay. ....... But yes, keep saying that high elos don't know how to play the game. I'm sure nobody in high elo is smart enough to counterbuild and play around their opponents. Or maybe you know, it's not that cocking simple, and the champ has some issues?
You did see the part where he explained WW is basically on a timer right? It would make sense in higher elo games, where games are generally shorter, a WW player would be able to close out the game easier since his teammates know how to close the game faster.
Birbonius (EUW)
: The main damage of urgot comes from the legs, W is just the spell that lets you activate them instantaneously. And with 2.5s CD later on for each leg,i'd say that having a low damage 3.00 AS is still pretty good.
What I'm saying is half the time you aren't even using your autoattacks but the e -> w combo, which means if you try to take an item like Bork or trinity force, even though the item could be viable, you're only getting to use about half the item at any given time since you're in W when you're doing damage.
: His point is all on-hit items have AS in them, and giving W AS scaling would probably break him.
{{champion:104}} and {{champion:202}} both get damage modifiers based on any Attack Speed they build despite having fixed attack speeds/reloads and neither of them have broken the game yet. True, {{champion:104}} has kind of been all over the place since riots still wishy washy about him being a jg, but there's nothing inherently busted about how attack speed fits into his reload.
Done25 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7OqiWAFE,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-03-12T16:27:39.886+0000) > > It is bad currently, I'm proposing a way to make it viable; a champion shouldn't be forced to one build path simply because his primary form of dps (which disables his ability to auto attack while active) has a fixed speed. It makes sense why it's not allowed to crit, but all other modifiers related to AD should affect it positively in some way. Tbh I don't know why it's not allowed to crit. I guess Urgot isn't allowed to have fun because he's not a "true" Marksman? He has such a limited pool of items he can buy from. Can't buy attack speed. Can't buy crit. Can't buy "Melee Only" items.
Gotta pick your battles one at a time. Today we ask for attack speed viability, tomorrow we ask for mini crits from w.
: I'm already getting pounded out the ass every game urgot is in tho ._. do we gotta buff him when he already outscales, outduels and is allowed to poke me? - {{champion:98}}
{{champion:98}} is one of the strongest {{champion:6}} counters actually; you have the ability to win trades very very hard by taunting him then using your w to completely negate his primary form of damage.
Birbonius (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7OqiWAFE,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-03-12T15:28:56.511+0000) > > with the nerf to the bonus attack speed gained from putting points into Percision, there’s been a pretty noticeable decline in his winrate, I'm pretty sure that's not the reason his winrate may have declined. Simply at the time there was still sperimenting in the community,and PTA seemed like the go-to choice,until someone started to improvise seeing how little damage it was actually dealing overall. Right now the go-to rune is either comet or aftershock (match-up dependant) and,even if there are still people that go PTA (and it seems a bit better than before,both for me and for other) everyone agrees that the attack speed stat for that tree was and still is wasted. It may help you farm a little better,but it doesn't help you at all at being Urgot and doing what Urgot does. Said that,it is true that some balancing made to affect ADC's abuse hurt Urgot too (not everything though. Most noteably Sterak's,Grasp and the eventual new rune that is coming out) and that a solution could be found to give him some indirect buffs,but i have to say that he is seriously not in need of direct changes. So,giving extra damage on his W based on his Attack Speed would be just a "useless" (more damage is never useless) memery that would only confuse even more people while building and learning him. Either that or we would see the rise of a cheesy on-hit Urgot,which would eventually bring the nerfs and leave all of those who played urgot before in a bad place along the others who would join with the change. No thanks,i prefer keeping my melting legs,even though i would have fun doing a viable on-hit urgot.
Urgot already procs on hit effects though, just at 33% effectiveness? As for confusion in building, some of the most fun champions to play are partially fun because of the way their kit allows for a variety in builds {{champion:41}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:202}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:35}}; back then lack of knowledge might be a viable reason but op.gg and builds are all over the internet.
: I thought building attack speed on Urgot was bad because his W is capped at a certain speed?
It is bad currently, I'm proposing a way to make it viable; a champion shouldn't be forced to one build path simply because his primary form of dps (which disables his ability to auto attack while active) has a fixed speed. It makes sense why it's not allowed to crit, but all other modifiers related to AD should affect it positively in some way.
  Rioter Comments
: I Thought That Looked Familiar
>And now, champions yelling. Sounds like a Month Python skit I would watch the shit out of.
Zedex (NA)
: Think of it from a business standpoint. Do we pool resources to make a really sweet Shen skin for his 15 players, or do we pool the same amount of resources to make a skin for MF, which will sell a lot more and in turn make them more profits. I'm not saying she deserves it, but I am pointing out the obvious flaw..Look at popularity of champions, recent skin release trends, and then tell me that its realistic that someone as unpopular as Shen will get a skin which needs to sell in order for it to be worth the funding gone into development and teasers.
It's not so much popularity of the champion being played to maximize profit so much as preserving the loyalty of the player base. You can pump large amounts of money into the 3 or 4 most played champs, and you'll see an initial return on that for sure. But gradually it'll diminish the player base (as its already been doing) when people start to realize the company cares more about profits than keeping their players satisfied. If you want a good example of what this leads to, pretty sure Reddit left EA nailed to a cross for everyone to see.
Rioter Comments
: I was actually thinking the same about the recast on E. I'm not sure if it was left intentionally that way for it to be a crippling weakness in his kit though... But it's pretty annoying not being able to aim for a champion in the melee minion half without being overly obvious. And aside from that, maybe increase the speed forward or back by just a bit.
Honestly if I could get just that I'd be happy, I just wanted to see what the community thought of my ulti idea!
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iTBbWMJr,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-03-02T23:12:34.203+0000) > >he also plays {{champion:40}} that one champ you called 'total shit' against Kench jee maybe BECAUSE HE DOESNT MAIN SUPPORT AND IS AUTOFILLED? legit watch pro and see if janna is picked over braum and tahm kench and come back to see if i'm wrong janna just got picked today and got destroyed by tahm kench, i wish the boards could just use their eyes to watch how to win against janna
I also explained why he's so highly picked in pro as well, or are you so angry that this champ exists you read the first sentence of my response and tunneled on that?
: ah yea must explain why kench has 100% pick/ban in pro, and all challenger supports only pick him when he isn't banned, explains why top1 korea is a kench main https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRFfbQ4-1fQ&t=439s
>top1 korea is a kench main http://www.op.gg/summoner/userName=lehends top one right now is actually a {{champion:27}} main, one of the counters I actually listed to Kench. He also plays the shit out of {{champion:40}}, that one champ you called 'total shit' against Kench. And sure, {{champion:223}} is a highly contested pick in Korean play, just like how {{champion:81}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:163}} are all contested picks; the current highest skillcap champs that fit the meta best will maximize elo gain from the hours put into learning them. As for why he's p/b in pro, its the same reason {{champion:72}} {{champion:3}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:12}} are all p/b; heavy reliance on a tanky frontline centered around protecting the adc. None of these champions are broken by themselves, but rather they're symptoms of a greater disorder; too much focus on bulky protect the adc comps given how much power has been shoved into the adcs hands this season. Furthermore, all of these champions have playstyles listed as what I said Tahm Kench is strong against; slow-moving, one shot type champs with long cooldowns. You said you're having trouble convincing the entirety of boards to agree with you that {{champion:223}} is broken, but statistically speaking, if the bulk of the group is disagreeing with you when you say this champ is broken, wouldn't the odds be in their favor that they're correct and you're probably wrong? You don't even have any games logged into {{champion:223}} this season, and the ones you do in past season are very few with very low winrates, so I'm curious what makes you think you have the knowledge to actually comment on the subject besides the data you've presented (which I've already debunked.)
: i mean they're helping to make the champion looking balanced so i would advise them to keep going
Quit being salty. You main a slow moving hunk of metal trying to cheese his way into kills by one shotting squishies with mace of spades. Of course this champion is going to be your bane of existence, his q then w means you'll never get close enough to an adc even with his ws long cd, but other champs with better sustain and more sufficient gap closers like {{champion:268}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:27}} all have no trouble busting past kench and getting to his adc. Some champions just naturally counter others playstyles. Kench counters yours. Live with it.
Rioter Comments
Barkley (NA)
: A public service announcement to ADCs everywhere
{{champion:223}} You're too drunk, it's time to go home. {{champion:223}}
  Rioter Comments
N Komaeda (EUW)
: Kha'Zix and Aatrox were never in there to begin with
This is the full art for the log in screen; the screen just had them cropped out of it https://lolstatic-a.akamaihd.net/frontpage/apps/prod/lol_mechasion/en_US/04f17dadcce98d2edbdbe44ba306101dc80ecfe2/assets/assets/downloads/1920x1080/keyart.jpg link to the original art, found on the mecha zero promo page
Dr Mercy (NA)
: See here's the problem. We assume we all know who Kayn is, that we all know both sides of him, and his mechanics. We know what the difference between Rhaast and Kayn is. But for a new player who doesn't know who the fuck Kayn is, or doesn't know his lore, imagine the confusion. They see Kayn in chat, and then they see Rhaast. They know scrawny boi is Kayn, from the first ten minutes of the game. The dude from the start of the game is gone, now here's Rhaast. They don't know Kayn has a mechanic that changes him, and the scrawny boi from before is now gone, replaced with a some horned demon. The best way for the player to know that this guy is still the same person, and therefore still plays the same, is to keep them both under the same name. That was Kayn before, and he does X. Now Kayn is red, but because it's Kayn, he'll do X. Completely out of context, the player doesn't know who Rhaast is, and since the name is very important for the champion, the player won't know how the champion will play if they associate it as something not Kayn. The specifics are still a burden of knowledge, knowing that Rhaast is tankier, that S.A Kayn is squishier but more burst, but the simple way for a new player to know that these two things play the same, is to label them the same Champion. Imagine you never saw a Watermelon before, and you ate one for the first time. Then imagine if someone tomorrow painted a watermelon red, called it a Redmelon, and gave it to you. Until you experience it first hand, you wouldn't know what to do with it. You could easily make a mistake trying to eat it, thinking that it isn't a watermelon. For a player, knowing what Kayn/Rhaast both do, is easiest when you know they're the same champion, not someone different, and so you can react the same to the champion regardless of what the form is, especially when it's your first time playing against them. Edit: Riot on Reddit confirms this as the reason https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6n39xh/waddup_were_the_rioters_that_did_kayn_ask_us/dk6pnxl/ IN OTHER WORDS, I'm right.
So because a new player will be bothered for about a whopping 2 seconds that a champion's name changed (and then probably never again after they learn from it,) you think the person playing Kayn/Rhaast shouldn't get to enjoy a fun and unique change to their visuals to match the theme of the character they're playing? Plus the player's name would still be right next Rhaast/Kayn's name, so it wouldn't be that hard to deduce Kayn = Rhaast. Why deny something dedicated Kayn/Rhaast players want simply because new players can't be bothered to look up Kayn/Rhaast or ask their teammates what's going on?
N Komaeda (EUW)
: Where did you get that from?!
It was the login screen when they released mecha zero skin i think
: So Mecha aren't colossal in size? Then why have we been comparing them to Pacific Rim for so long?
https://i.imgur.com/XwVjfmO.jpg here's one of all of them in the same fight. Looks like Kha'zix is big, but not Sion big. Kha and Aatrox look maybe Transformer size, while Sion and Malph look Jaeger size?
: I... I dont think so...
4 seasons ago it was considered a high elo play to flash lee sin ultimate, now it's a common mechanic you see even in bronze elo. Annie bot got placed in gold and commented about how even low elo players have gotten a lot better in the past few months. PantsAreDragon and Redmercy tried to do a series a few months ago about them watching low elo games and shittalking the players, but it never picked up because it turns out low elo games aren't that different from high elo one, only lacking in farm and mechanics. Obviously players that are better will still rise above the masses, but there's no denying that all players silver and higher have gotten flat out better in the past few years.
Rioter Comments
: fuck the early game meta
It's not really so much of a meta so much as games are getting shorter and shorter because the player base is becoming more and more skilled. Access to third party sites like mobafire and op.gg, increased participation in esports, and the inclusion of a reformed draft system (one that makes it extremely easier to one trick) have all increased the average player's skill, and therefore made it easier for players to utilize their leads more efficiently, allowing them to end the game much sooner than in the past.
Sharjo (EUW)
: Animation Workshop - Lux: Binding Light
: Who would win?
Top ten anime fights
: New loot: Dreadnova Darius
Either you guys need to step up the skin game or make gemstones easier to get. Don't get me wrong, this skin is fantastic, probably the only Darius skin I've actually wanted in a long time, but it's not worth however much money I have to spend to get 10 gemstones (and believe me, you pretty much have to spend much more than 1350 ip if you want this skin before 2018/2019.) If you guys added unique voice lines to these skins or something similar to make them feel more special, I'm sure people would be a little bit more willing to grind out those gemstones.
: There has not been a single class update that fixed more problems than it created
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