: Worldbuilding - Your Turn! Part III
Piltover/Zaun is one of the few regions of the world to get the full stack of seasons. Cold winters, hot summers, etc. It also means there is an absolutely absurd holiday business where inventors push the bill on making the most "in-season" creation just in time for any upcoming holiday. Unfortunately this also leads to holidays becoming more commercialized and with less "deep" meanings.
cQaAlma (NA)
: ARAM is really SCEG: Same Champions Every Game thanks to ARAM accounts
+1. OP's brain actually huge. 4583912945 IQ. (No meme legit it's the right call.)
: Useless League of Legends Facts?
Eleisa's Miracle was an old item removed from the game, but that's not the fact. The true fact is that it was named after a roleplay character on the old forums, meaning the item was directly inspired by players interacting with the game's story outside of Riot.
: > [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rhzJo86h,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-10-18T22:48:36.908+0000) > > It wouldn't be so bad if they announced mobile diablo then pulled a fast one and said "BUT WAIT... NEW DIABLO FOR PC!" or a full overhaul of Diablo 3 with new content. All would've been forgiven instantly. Yeah, if mobile Diablo wasn't the only thing they announced for the Diablo franchise, I'm sure people wouldn't have been nearly as upset as they were. Like how it is here, mobile League wasn't literally they only thing they were doing, so much more people are satisfied.
> [{quoted}](name=Autrah Fang,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rhzJo86h,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-19T00:14:02.847+0000) > > Yeah, if mobile Diablo wasn't the only thing they announced for the Diablo franchise, I'm sure people wouldn't have been nearly as upset as they were. Like how it is here, mobile League wasn't literally they only thing they were doing, so much more people are satisfied. ^ In addition, Riot announced basically something for everyone. A card game, fighting game, FPS (with a focus on CS:GO-style gunplay), Some sort of diablo-esque game and more versions of League/TFT for other platforms. No matter who you are, Riot probably made something for you.
: You literally just made the distinction between the game and the IP, and now you're saying that they're the same thing in this second breath? Come on, dude.
> [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9AR9s1lA,comment-id=0027000000000000,timestamp=2019-10-17T08:48:47.553+0000) > > You literally just made the distinction between the game and the IP, and now you're saying that they're the same thing in this second breath? Come on, dude. They're basically interchangeable though? It's not like Warcraft where there were three games (and a few cancelled ones) before WoW. There was one: League. You can't really have the IP without the game and the MOBA will always be the core thing when people hear "League of Legends". It's celebrating the IP more than the game but the game is still plenty referenced and shown. Especially considering it arguably got twice the screen time compared to everything else that was shown. IP more than game. Game is still referenced. Almost every game shown has built up "League" as a whole except for Project A which was more of a "I'm just going to throw this in because I can't put it anywhere else."
: So it's your contention that they shouldn't celebrate the 10th anniversary of the game League of Legends?
> [{quoted}](name=ArtumisPrime,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9AR9s1lA,comment-id=00270000,timestamp=2019-10-17T05:52:31.238+0000) > > So it's your contention that they shouldn't celebrate the 10th anniversary of the game League of Legends? They're absolutely celebrating it by letting you explore the world, interact with the characters and enjoy the best aspects of League (Strategy, Story and Community) without necessarily having to always play SR. (At least on your PC). If it was just project A then yes, I'd agree with the argument. But they showed off way more than that.
: Unpopular opinion but it needs to be heard
Sorta disagree. The thing is it's not the 10th for League _the game_ It's the 10th for League _the IP_. They announced some stuff for league but announcing nothing but stuff for League of Legends is a bad call. It shows that even in ten years, you're leaning so heavily on a single game that your big 10th is just for a single game. It doesn't show growth, progress or new advances. It shows stagnation. Senna, URF and Preseason were basically the three best things you could have shown. Music too if you count that as well as the mobile/console version (which is basically just League with different toppings). But for years, people have clamored for more with league. I have tons of friends who don't like league the game but love champions, lore, music, characters, you name it. One of the biggest things EVERYONE says is "I wish I could play this in a non-moba". And so they did. Now your characters that are loved, save for the new IP FPS, are all available in other forms. Fighting games, card games, whatever that diablo game was, etc. This was absolutely a great 10th for League because it once again reaffirms League is bigger than just a single game: It's a whole universe of things.
: Can we talk about the new models used on the League of Legends Mobile?
Bro, you're not doing justice. https://wildrift.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/static/fizz-1080-ddf38acb7921736cd15a6d098c191f06.webm
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8YZEXK6y,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-10-14T03:08:44.568+0000) > > Well, league champions are often meant to capture at a glance and "the one word" question actually tells you quite a bit. Kai'sa is a being from the void who survived its horrors and somehow made it out with her sanity in tact. She's also a pretty hot girl who has the big baps. With this question, Riot wants to nail down _exactly_ what people feel when they see Kai'sa. > > Is she a scary monster-person from the void? > Is she a hot grill in a skintight body suit? > Is she a survivalist badass who can fight all sorts of eldritch horrors? > Is she a goofball character who is more joke than champion? How bout irritation and low expectation?
> [{quoted}](name=KnKitsune,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8YZEXK6y,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-10-14T21:47:24.346+0000) > > How bout irritation and low expectation? Trolly/memey it is.
: Jhin x literally anyone. Jhin doesn't understand love the way we do, and he only really gets off to offing people. Its entirely possible that he _could_ "love" someone, but I don't think any other champion in the roster would work out for him. They all annoy, bore, or inspire him in some way or another.
> [{quoted}](name=4 Step Cadence,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=6XugaIml,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-10-14T21:02:49.961+0000) > > Jhin x literally anyone. > > Jhin doesn't understand love the way we do, and he only really gets off to offing people. Its entirely possible that he _could_ "love" someone, but I don't think any other champion in the roster would work out for him. They all annoy, bore, or inspire him in some way or another. See I disagree because I think Jhin has a concept of love but feels no love for others. If Jhin was in a relationship it'd be 100% one sided but Jhin goes along with it because there is no greater beauty than love that ends up shattered, broken and unrequited. To see that the one they love the most is the one that ends them. Like any true tragedy. Now _that_ is art.
: If this is the 10 year anniversary anouncement, I am going to be severely dissapointed and feel extremely let down. I've always loved the lore of league of legends, but now they are trying way too hard and it lost it's magic.
> [{quoted}](name=Blue Shift,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=i4Xph3XG,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-10-14T05:01:41.718+0000) > > If this is the 10 year anniversary anouncement, I am going to be severely dissapointed and feel extremely let down. I've always loved the lore of league of legends, but now they are trying way too hard and it lost it's magic. I mean it's definitely not going to be the ONLY thing.
Zac x Me (NA)
: What insight or remotely useful feedback is this question supposed to give you Rito?
Well, league champions are often meant to capture at a glance and "the one word" question actually tells you quite a bit. Kai'sa is a being from the void who survived its horrors and somehow made it out with her sanity in tact. She's also a pretty hot girl who has the big baps. With this question, Riot wants to nail down _exactly_ what people feel when they see Kai'sa. Is she a scary monster-person from the void? Is she a hot grill in a skintight body suit? Is she a survivalist badass who can fight all sorts of eldritch horrors? Is she a goofball character who is more joke than champion?
: I mean... this is the kind of stunt they should pull out a lot more often, if its a one-time only occasion only imagined because of the 10 year anniversary, then it is guenuinely sad how low expectations on new content became. You see, pulling already existing figures from the lore to make it deeper by making them into champions is several hundred times better than just pooping a new context, attach it on a lore that never ever mentioned this new context, and then boom: {{champion:246}} ,a new champion, along with a lore expansion in a direction no one really cared or really wanted. Continuously expending the lore horizontally only makes it feel like each champion release is a retcon of already existing lore, and for no reason. But expanding it vertically, like with Senna's addition and the fact it deepens an already existing lore piece? This is the kind of content we should strive for every single month, not for a single 10 year anniversary. I really hope it means they'll turn themselves towards this kind of content creating for the next seasons, I'm getting bored of having a whole new region/race/faction/etc that has never ever been anywhere near the previous lore being introduced every single release
> [{quoted}](name=PaffWasTaken,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=i4Xph3XG,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-13T22:22:15.723+0000) > > I mean... this is the kind of stunt they should pull out a lot more often, if its a one-time only occasion only imagined because of the 10 year anniversary, then it is guenuinely sad how low expectations on new content became. > > You see, pulling already existing figures from the lore to make it deeper by making them into champions is several hundred times better than just pooping a new context, attach it on a lore that never ever mentioned this new context, and then boom: {{champion:246}} ,a new champion, along with a lore expansion in a direction no one really cared or really wanted. > > Continuously expending the lore horizontally only makes it feel like each champion release is a retcon of already existing lore, and for no reason. But expanding it vertically, like with Senna's addition and the fact it deepens an already existing lore piece? This is the kind of content we should strive for every single month, not for a single 10 year anniversary. I really hope it means they'll turn themselves towards this kind of content creating for the next seasons, I'm getting bored of having a whole new region/race/faction/etc that has never ever been anywhere near the previous lore being introduced every single release So the problem with this take is, while I'm all for lore bombs that drop like "TADA IT'S KASSADIN'S DAUGHTER!", repeated use of them will eventually just lead to them being kind of losing impact. If every single release is a well-known established character who people go "OMG IT'S THE CHAMPION" you eventually just run out of characters to use or they're used so frequently that the surprise is gone. "Oh, it's Kassadins daughter" right. Plus you lose all surprise by having any named character be a pick. More importantly, there _should_ be avenues for new exploration. Sylas is probably one of the most successful releases lore-wise because his introduction shows off an entirely new side of Demacia only briefly mentioned, never explored. Qiyana also isn't bad because she gives further insight into another region as well as adding a new place to pull characters from. "Just keep using old stuff" isn't the answer, as the best option is to make new content that can stand alongside old content. Otherwise the world is never changing. With Senna, this is a major tenth anniversary thing BECAUSE it has been built up for so long. One of the longest rivalries in league of legends and, on the 10th anniversary, they're going to "end" it. If this had happened 1-2 years after Lucian/Thresh came out, the impact wouldn't be as big of a deal. Just another champion release. And it's worth noting that new regions/releases don't happen every time. Most is just logical expansion (Pyke and Zoe aren't really new expanding of regions, just building on Aspects/Monster Hunting in Bilgewater). Qiyana for the life of me is the only entirely new addition with an entirely new thing. TL;DR No. If releases of this caliber were every release, people get burned out and the shock value is lost.
Rioter Comments
Manxxom (NA)
: Senna: Is going to be released as a champion.
: The Magnificent Stealth Pun of The Echoes Left Behind
: We finally got rid of Garens Villain mehcanic
Skarner is probably in line for more work than Garen is. Garen's kit had the benefit that it really was solid, just that the villain mechanic was extraneous. You could tweak Garen and keep him roughly healthy. Skarner's a bit different in that he's never really felt like a sort of crystal scorpion besides his ult. He's supposed to be a juggernaut but with skills that liken him more to being a tank-ish/diver character who wants to grab high-value targets then get out. He's also got some strong abilities (I think Q is super underrated) which make him a decent duelist yet never enough to compete with others. I think Skarner should be in line for a minor VGU. Maybe a bit more complex than say Ezreal but not to the caliber or Sion or Yorick.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mNAvVt0Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-07T10:35:32.904+0000) > > We actually have a recent graph directly from Riot showing the popularity of some game modes. > https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/02_Game_Hours_Per_Mode-1_d6f0glgzkxp91uhuagi2.jpg > > As you can see, Nexus Blitz at it's best was about half as popular as ARAM, and became waaaay less popular after missions for it ended. It really surprised me that not even Odyssey was able to draw in as much attention as ARAM. how much of this is because all the bots who want to level up accounts go to aram?
> [{quoted}](name=CubanThund3r,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mNAvVt0Y,comment-id=00010004,timestamp=2019-10-08T03:57:28.478+0000) > > how much of this is because all the bots who want to level up accounts go to aram? Not very many, if any. TT has more of a bot problem than ARAM. Hell, I don't think I've ever seen a bot in ARAM. ARAM is just a far more popular mode throughout and has always been standing head-and-shoulders, even without the things that people said "killed" TT such as balance changes, map work, etc.
Bultz (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DerMangoJoghurt,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mNAvVt0Y,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-10-07T10:35:32.904+0000) > > We actually have a recent graph directly from Riot showing the popularity of some game modes. > https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/09/02_Game_Hours_Per_Mode-1_d6f0glgzkxp91uhuagi2.jpg > > As you can see, Nexus Blitz at it's best was about half as popular as ARAM, and became waaaay less popular after missions for it ended. It really surprised me that not even Odyssey was able to draw in as much attention as ARAM. That graph is a major lie. They made that shit up. Not once while Nb was up did I wait 2 seconds for a queue to start. They didn't even test TFT with people for that to be true, so what they did is lie about it because TFT is easy money for them.
> [{quoted}](name=Bultz,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=mNAvVt0Y,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-10-07T22:20:55.362+0000) > > That graph is a major lie. They made that shit up. Not once while Nb was up did I wait 2 seconds for a queue to start. They didn't even test TFT with people for that to be true, so what they did is lie about it because TFT is easy money for them. Well, there are plenty of reasons for your low queue times. NA was the predominant region keeping NB afloat and riot even acknowledges that yes, NA loved NB more than anyone. However, NA is still one of the smaller regions. One region giving a queue decent times vs. 9 others not giving the queue times. Second, TFT absolutely was tested and Riot would regularly fly in autochess players of note to see how they felt about the game. TFT also was immensely popular even today because unlike NB, it draws in a different crowd of people. People who would never touch league are playing TFT because they enjoy it. But most of all: Why lie about the graph? Why say "Hey this thing we put a ton of effort into was a complete flop"? Why would you lie in a way that sabotages your own efforts and shows you taking an L? It's illogical to lie about something that actively makes your effort look bad. Hell, even from a money standpoint it'd be stupid to lie about a mode not working because if it did, that could bring in more money. You gotta face the facts man: NB wasn't popular outside of a select few people. Myself included. I loved that mode but in the end, it just didn't meet the metrics Riot wanted it to.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ndA3RFrG,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-10-05T05:56:19.732+0000) > > Mmmm, no, Zhonyas is broken. Just not in the sense of stats or ability. > > The thing about Zhonyas is that it has established a "renekton bar" of AP/Armor items. Ever notice how we don't have other AP/Armor items for non-supports? That's because Zhonyas has set the bar so absurdly high, regardless of meta. Even in the lowest of low damage metas, Zhonyas is the go-to because of just how versatile the item is. It's a life saver. It's a delayer. It lets you do dives. It lets you get out of dives. It's both a shield and a sword making certain plays possible. > > ANY AP/Armor item Riot would make would have to compete with Zhonyas regardless if the item does something completely different. If it didn't have such strict AP/Armor requirements, EVERYONE would build this item just like everyone built old GA. Zhonyas needs changes to make the item either more offensive or defensive. It needs another break-apart like it did back in the early days. Until that happens, we can't get more meaningful AP/armor itemization. > > TL;DR Zhonyas has been the gold standard for AP/Armor itemization so much so that it makes any other item in this category either strictly for a different class or so powerful it can compete with Zhonyas. It’s not even close to broken. Like I said. It seems broken because it’s the only defensive item left that actually works.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ndA3RFrG,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-10-05T09:30:54.111+0000) > > It’s not even close to broken. > > Like I said. It seems broken because it’s the only defensive item left that actually works. ....No, you didn't even read what I said. Zhonya's _is_ broken because its existence has completely warped AP/Armor itemization as well as being one of the strongest defensive items in the entire game, regardless of meta or champion. It's also one of the strongest offensive items as well as it allows you to "Pause" a fight to get cooldowns back. The item is absolutely broken in the sense that it being a thing greatly hinders any other AP/Armor item because they will always be compared to it. Any item has to either be as good as or better than Zhonyas, which makes it even more problematic.
: Zhonya’s isn’t broken.
Mmmm, no, Zhonyas is broken. Just not in the sense of stats or ability. The thing about Zhonyas is that it has established a "renekton bar" of AP/Armor items. Ever notice how we don't have other AP/Armor items for non-supports? That's because Zhonyas has set the bar so absurdly high, regardless of meta. Even in the lowest of low damage metas, Zhonyas is the go-to because of just how versatile the item is. It's a life saver. It's a delayer. It lets you do dives. It lets you get out of dives. It's both a shield and a sword making certain plays possible. ANY AP/Armor item Riot would make would have to compete with Zhonyas regardless if the item does something completely different. If it didn't have such strict AP/Armor requirements, EVERYONE would build this item just like everyone built old GA. Zhonyas needs changes to make the item either more offensive or defensive. It needs another break-apart like it did back in the early days. Until that happens, we can't get more meaningful AP/armor itemization. TL;DR Zhonyas has been the gold standard for AP/Armor itemization so much so that it makes any other item in this category either strictly for a different class or so powerful it can compete with Zhonyas.
Kat XD (NA)
: Man, CaptainMårvelous, you are such a chad. Gotta be honest, I've never seen a better moderator in my life. XD This is genius. Next time someone flames me maybe I'll become hypeman for myself and just annoy the crap out of the whole team. 0/10 after being camped for 20 mins straight: "Holy... this Kat is such a god, maybe one day I'll be able to play like them, I can only hope..."
> [{quoted}](name=Kat XD,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=yEQPtnYB,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-10-02T22:06:37.880+0000) > > Man, CaptainMårvelous, you are such a chad. Gotta be honest, I've never seen a better moderator in my life. XD > > This is genius. Next time someone flames me maybe I'll become hypeman for myself and just annoy the crap out of the whole team. > > 0/10 after being camped for 20 mins straight: "Holy... this Kat is such a god, maybe one day I'll be able to play like them, I can only hope..." Doesn't work on yourself. Gotta be on someone else.
Rioter Comments
: Pretty sure league already become a gacha game with the introduction to little legends and pre buffs to champions who get skins in game lol
> [{quoted}](name=Silent Reaper,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=AzAlxFgP,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-27T10:17:17.427+0000) > > Pretty sure league already become a gacha game with the introduction to little legends and pre buffs to champions who get skins in game lol Loot boxes suck yeah. It has been proven that more often than not a champion is nerfed before/after they get a skin though. You'll know it's a gacha when new champions come out with 2-3 more abilities than others and are only available fro exclusive Summoner Crystals.
: that sounds more fun then the loot box, spend money on things we can revoke from you in 5 seconds erp game it already is
> [{quoted}](name=I Like Teemo,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=AzAlxFgP,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-27T07:35:08.755+0000) > > that sounds more fun then the loot box, spend money on things we can revoke from you in 5 seconds erp game it already is Wha- What fucking League games are you playing where _erotic role play_ is there?????!?!??!?!?
Rioter Comments
: looks to me like they like riot wants TFT over litterally any other game mode because monetization and lootboxes, which is also why I can't play the game lest I get addicted to loot boxes again
> [{quoted}](name=hhaavviikk,realm=EUW,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=2P1YAEkO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-09-26T06:22:06.089+0000) > > looks to me like they like riot wants TFT over litterally any other game mode because monetization and lootboxes, which is also why I can't play the game lest I get addicted to loot boxes again Not really. Loot boxes/monetization come AFTER you've made a successful product. As a reminder, Nexus Blitz/ARURF _did_ have passes (that nobody bought) and were more so experimentation. The reason TFT is actually getting support is because of the graph: It attracts a massive crowd that continue to play while other games do not. If it was strictly about loot boxes, we'd see a falloff like you do in mobile games where people start leaving once it becomes clear it's a tourist trap. Thats not the case with TFT and it has evened out/has players.
: It's not a new game, Riot copied DOTA once again.
> [{quoted}](name=Taldionimt,realm=NA,application-id=RaE1aOE7,discussion-id=2P1YAEkO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-26T05:52:38.973+0000) > > It's not a new game, Riot copied DOTA once again. Let's dispel this myth, because it really overwrites the hard work of Drodo. Drodo are the creates of autochess and the original indie team. They built a game in DOTA's custom mod tool because it was cheaper than trying to license an engine and it could be a good testing grounds. It became popular. DOTA didn't make shit. In fact, Valve copied them as well after "generously" giving them the blessing to make their own autochess. You want to claim Riot copied, fine. Just don't ignore the people who made the first (and probably the outright best) autochess.
Rioter Comments
: League isn't the most played because its good, its the most played because its beginner friendly (way more casuals than tryhards in the world btw) and WAS (big emphasis on this) ran by a great company. Its much more action-based and much less strategy-based than pretty much the only other MOBA around at its release: DotA. All of the other beginner friendly MOBAs were ran by horrible companies that ran them into the ground, like HotS and Smite. DotA is by far the better game at this point. Its pretty much always had better competitive presence, viewership, and even prizepool (you can't begin to argue that Riot can't afford to give their players respectable prizepools at this point). However, it takes a LOT of practice to get into, which is why a lot of people play LoL over DotA. There's also the very stupid assumption that because you play LoL, you HAVE to choose LoL and LoL alone; that DotA is evil and deserves no recognition because LoL. Before there was a real argument for LoL>DotA, but now the only argument for LoL is accessibility. Matchmaking is terrible, gameplay is now terrible, competitive scene is now terrible...just everything about LoL is bad now. ____________________ If you want proof of how DotA is good but people don't have the attention span to learn it, look at how many people go to try DotA and immediately dismiss it because they can't handle the controls, which are BARELY different, and can't handle fighting for last hits over denies.
> [{quoted}](name=WoonStruck,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=INimzeAa,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-09-23T00:16:03.098+0000) > > League isn't the most played because its good, its the most played because its beginner friendly (way more casuals than tryhards in the world btw) and WAS (big emphasis on this) ran by a great company. Its much more action-based and much less strategy-based than pretty much the only other MOBA around at its release: DotA. All of the other beginner friendly MOBAs were ran by horrible companies that ran them into the ground, like HotS and Smite. > > DotA is by far the better game at this point. Its pretty much always had better competitive presence, viewership, and even prizepool (you can't begin to argue that Riot can't afford to give their players respectable prizepools at this point). However, it takes a LOT of practice to get into, which is why a lot of people play LoL over DotA. There's also the very stupid assumption that because you play LoL, you HAVE to choose LoL and LoL alone; that DotA is evil and deserves no recognition because LoL. > > Before there was a real argument for LoL>DotA, but now the only argument for LoL is accessibility. Matchmaking is terrible, gameplay is now terrible, competitive scene is now terrible...just everything about LoL is bad now. > > ____________________ > > If you want proof of how DotA is good but people don't have the attention span to learn it, look at how many people go to try DotA and immediately dismiss it because they can't handle the controls, which are BARELY different, and can't handle fighting for last hits over denies. See the thing is that it's not just accessibility holding DOTA back: It's basically everything about the way the game is designed and the factually pro-centric balance approach the game takes. DOTA is a game entirely balanced around the absolute best players and says "piss off" to anyone who isn't that. Heroes with 40%+ pick rates have 54% win rates. Characters who are shit-tier hover at sub 40% win-rates and are balanced around that. The thing is the community recognizes this and accepts it. They know that their game is based around pros and know that the problem isn't the game, it's them. League doesn't have this. Anyone who steps even moderately out of line is shot for daring to have a 51% win rate. Champions get placebo buffs and nerfs for lower-tiers while everyone pretends the game is balanced around pro-play or high ELO play. It's also because of this that the game can become so fractured: A meta where casuals have fun and say the game is good (Cinderhulk meta) becomes a shitty, terrible pro environment. Conversely pro play is actually the best it has been in years with varied strategy, regional differences and great gameplay yet people decry it as one of the worst times in league history. League would indeed be better if it balanced and designed like DOTA. The problem is no player is going to agree with you. To put it as a DOTA pro once did: League is water, DOTA is wine. Anyone can drink water but not everyone is going to enjoy wine.
Moody P (NA)
: how many people who think build diversity sucks are actually trying to find it
Because people like to pigeonhole themselves into assuming there is no diversity. It's ironic because the same mentality of "old runes so GOOD" is completely absent with new runes despite the differences between the two: Loading in with a bad runepage back in earlier seasons was pretty much a lost game. Current runes have pretty small/minute differences in terms of what is good. For example, Xin Zhao. I've seen everything from PTA to Conq to Hail to Aftershock to Phase ran on him. Sure, one is usually the "ideal" one to pick but he has an overwhelming amount of runes that not only are pickable but are completely viable. In truth, while these differences between the best rune page and the second best rune page have shortened, the skill gap has widened exponentially. Season 1-5 (perhaps earlier, say 4) was a phase when player skill was much lower than it is now. Because of this, builds didn't matter as much as raw skill. Your average gold player could dunk on anyone with what they figured was "the secret meta build" that used some horribly unoptimized rune page because their skill made up the difference. However, these days, players are much better than before. Silver players know things like proper CS and macro, things I'd never say a Silver would know. Because of this, small changes matter more and more. Suddenly a 51% and a 50% can be massively crushing in terms of advantages. That said, while runes are factually more diverse across champions, items have still sucked due to being 100% stat sticks across most classes save for support. I really do hope that item pass for preseason is good. (Apparently pros/high ELOs have been testing it and apparently all of them are raving about how amazing they are but eh.)
: So is it just me or is Kayn secretly just someone's DeviantArt OC?
If you go back and read the Champion Insights on Kayn, he was literally designed to be the "Better than you anime villain". And it's also reflected in both forms: For those who prefer their villains to be cold, cunning, conniving and ruthless killers who planned your death 10 steps ago, you got blue kayn. For those who just wanna FUCK SHIT UP and go absolutely apeshit, you got red kayn. Honestly though, I feel you can apply this idea of "being someone's OC" to almost any character. Champions by nature read as OP original characters, even the normal human ones: Garen (despite being a normal ass soldier) is captain of a special regiment, has magic-nullifying armor and regularly 1v1s with a beautiful assassin from the rival kingdom who is secretly his BFF/romantic partner. Ashe found the mythical artifact and unites a ton of tribes under her rule as the "reincarnation" of a beautiful warrior who led her tribes in rebellion against evil oppressors with a magical bow. Her husband is also ex-ceo of Riot Games. Caitlyn is the greatest sheriff in Piltover's ranks, an ace detective and on the hunt for the rival who threatened her family and will expose a conspiracy that could shake apart her entire city. Swain is arguably one of the most important strategic minds in the world and a man who rose to power, avoided death and defeat, and controls a demon-arm with sheer wit, guile and intellect. Part of being a champion is to go above and beyond as a character. To be a symbol and a pillar. If anything, I'd say that everyone's league OCs should excel in some absurd way.
: Most overpowered champions of all time v2
Always interesting to see. Also really makes you realize just how busted old designs were and still are. Out of the top 30, not a single one is older than Season 5-ish. (Except for maybe Morde's newest rework?)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PAEEsOvZ,comment-id=00180000,timestamp=2019-09-17T01:42:34.021+0000) > > Well, that's hard to quantify but let's think about it in some ways: > > So you have anywhere from 5-10 people working on it from QA to art to modeling, VFX, etc. Now let's say 9-5 with no Overtime for the span of three months. 40 hour work weeks. Plus let's be super cruel and make them all make 15/hr. > > One employee (for a skin to take 3 months at 15/hr) costs about 7k. So this skin costs anywhere from 36,000 to 72000 to make. And this is lowballing it pretty grossly considering not everyone is going to make 15/hr, overtime pay, taking longer than 3 months, etc. if it takes you that long to makes a skin.. you guys have some problems.. are the paint brushes made from caviar? And with all that money spent i still dont like this skin. = partial failure.
> [{quoted}](name=AramSlayer,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PAEEsOvZ,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2019-09-17T04:51:26.878+0000) > > if it takes you that long to makes a skin.. you guys have some problems.. > are the paint brushes made from caviar? > And with all that money spent i still dont like this skin. > = partial failure. One, I ain't Riot. Two, video game development/creation of cosmetics does take a long-ass time. Source: I work in QA (Just not at Riot) And three, that's the gamble you take. There's always the chance that the thing you make totally flops. Do you think the guy who originally set out to make OG urgot said to himself "man this champ gonna be DOGSHIT".
: Okay, so the skin made less than her yearly salary. Did it cost her yearly salary to _make_ the skin?
> [{quoted}](name=Everyday Legends,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PAEEsOvZ,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2019-09-16T13:30:16.640+0000) > > Okay, so the skin made less than her yearly salary. > Did it cost her yearly salary to _make_ the skin? Well, that's hard to quantify but let's think about it in some ways: So you have anywhere from 5-10 people working on it from QA to art to modeling, VFX, etc. Now let's say 9-5 with no Overtime for the span of three months. 40 hour work weeks. Plus let's be super cruel and make them all make 15/hr. One employee (for a skin to take 3 months at 15/hr) costs about 7k. So this skin costs anywhere from 36,000 to 72000 to make. And this is lowballing it pretty grossly considering not everyone is going to make 15/hr, overtime pay, taking longer than 3 months, etc.
: the ones that are buffed the most and most forgiving are the huge sales. ivern/sol are unpopular due to uniqueness in kit and being "boring", thus no one plays them. if they were overtuned people would play them thus making skin sales go up. i dont believe rioters. ive seen them lie first hand plenty of times. just because they used to be a rioter doesnt mean they are some almighty trustworthy being
> [{quoted}](name=XJ99999999999999,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PAEEsOvZ,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-15T01:54:04.684+0000) > > the ones that are buffed the most and most forgiving are the huge sales. ivern/sol are unpopular due to uniqueness in kit and being "boring", thus no one plays them. if they were overtuned people would play them thus making skin sales go up. > > i dont believe rioters. ive seen them lie first hand plenty of times. just because they used to be a rioter doesnt mean they are some almighty trustworthy being I mean they are kind of trustworthy because they, y'know. Worked there. This also isn't some drink-the-koolaid positive thing: It's saying that something they worked on and considered to be a good investment was a massive financial loss, which is pretty damning to say about their production line. I'd also say that overtuned/overpowered isn't always a metric on if people will play that champion. There are plenty of strong champions that aren't seeing play because they're an insanely niche character and/or require time investment. Champions can still boast amazing win-rates yet far smaller playrates because they're just not appealing to a wide variety of people. You can't really just look at balance because a champion is never just their gameplay: They're a character with voice lines, looks, etc etc etc. Even if you swapped Ivern and Yasuo's kits I'd argue that a ton of people would still play Yasuo because he's a cool samurai dude (who I guess now has a stand?) while only a few more people would play happy tree man.
: That HAS to have been either Mecha Sol or Dunkmaster Ivern. There's just no other answer. Or a similarly flopped release a longer time ago.
> [{quoted}](name=KestrelGirl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PAEEsOvZ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-15T01:31:43.657+0000) > > That HAS to have been either Mecha Sol or Dunkmaster Ivern. There's just no other answer. Or a similarly flopped release a longer time ago. It's hard to say considering it's just a "Well made skin". The question is was it well-made or was it well-received? There are definitely things to dig into but man, it's super hard to tell.
Rioter Comments
: Why everyone is ragequitting even in ranked now?
Weak mental. People buy into the "gg 2-0 at 8 minutes FF". They start caring less, feeding further, etc. "Never say die" mentality is gone because people find any game that's not a basic absolute stomp or a 1-1 slugfest completely unwinnable. Games can still be brought back but frankly you can't bring anything back when your mid laner mentally afks because Irelia is 2-0 with 50 CS at 13 minutes.
Win1Ocent (EUW)
: @RiotBlaustoise on mobility
>TL:DR. High mobile champs are not played more because they are by nature more fun, but because they have more options and more ways to do well. It's kind of hard to determine really. Honestly I disagree with both Blaust and OP on this one because I feel the metric for "what makes a champion fun" varies greatly based on player. We see champions some people would consider fuck-off boring (like, say, Volibear) get played a ton because they're meta. Likewise, Jinx is one of League's ADCs with no mobility or way to escape save for a finnicky passive. Despite this, she's one of the highest played champions even when she's absolute trash. In the end "what's fun" is such a variable metric that you can't really pinpoint what is "fun" in league without polling the entire global playerbase. Even then, your answer is just what the majority of players find fun, not what is unconditionally fun for everyone. The good thing about league right now is that pretty much every class is viable, albeit with meta as it always is the amount of "This is overwhelmingly strong" champs often fall under about 1-2 champs in each class.
Madjack01 (EUW)
: No. Actually facing people with limited champ pools and having unfair comps is what you signed up for. If you don't like it, too bad. People will never invest in the entire champion pool nor should they be forced too because you want to try to enforce fairness in a mode that is intrinsically unfair. I don't like to play more than 2/3s of the roster (and that includes nonsense like Jayce, Xerath or Ziggs). Even with a limited champ pool I have trouble getting a champ I enjoy. Might as well kiss goodbye to the mode if have to play all the shit I purposely avoided in all other modes by not buying them.
> [{quoted}](name=Madjack01,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uf3dwxsq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-08T09:10:43.494+0000) > > No. > > Actually facing people with limited champ pools and having unfair comps is what you signed up for. If you don't like it, too bad. > > People will never invest in the entire champion pool nor should they be forced too because you want to try to enforce fairness in a mode that is intrinsically unfair. I don't like to play more than 2/3s of the roster (and that includes nonsense like Jayce, Xerath or Ziggs). Even with a limited champ pool I have trouble getting a champ I enjoy. Might as well kiss goodbye to the mode if have to play all the shit I purposely avoided in all other modes by not buying them You got rerolls for that. Rerolls you'd be getting 1-2 of every game because with 140+ characters, you're bound to have the occasional one you dislike. And hey, unless you hate over 75% of the roster you're bound to get champs you either enjoy or don't mind playing a ton of the time. And naw, I didn't sign up for "limited champ pools and unfair comps every game". I signed up for "Everyone gets a random champion and you make do with a random team". The failure is on Riot for not putting forth what is advertised here. "ARAM" is all random all mid. Not "All certain champions I like to play all mid". But all this is proving is that Riot will just cater to those who think in a similar fashion: I only want to play 10 very specific (coincidentally poke) champions every single game and I'll keep droppin' them dollah dollah bills if ya give me what I want.
BigFBear (EUW)
: Who else enjoys "League of 15 Champs" as much as me this season?
The one crippling flaw here is win rate. Most champs here hover over sub-50% or just barely over 50% (by like 0.1 point) while only two actively crack it. Then you look at who is actually winning most of the games: https://puu.sh/EeLwr/45fc17012c.png Out of this "league of 15 champions", only one actively shows up on the actual top winrates. It's also not like these champions are played exclusively by 0.01% of players. Several of these champions sport around 5-10% pick rates. And I'm sure you'll go "YEAH WELL WHAT ABOUT THE NEXT GROUP!? HA! CHECKMATE!" Well... https://puu.sh/EeLy3/ed0cdf59bf.png Less 5-10% pick rates, still fairly widespread pick rate. Despite this "league of 15 champions", plenty of champions are not only viable but quite amazing to play. Despite a so-called "pick-meta-to-win" meta, the best performers by a wide margin are champions people often harp as weak: Tanks. Juggernauts. Non-mobile champions. If anything, this website proves how the current stable of viable-and-good champions is quite deep while those who default to popular picks end up losing more games than those that play to the amazing-but-less-popular-champs. It seems that if you really want to win, maybe don't follow the sheep off the cliff and remove your cursor from that 8th game in a row Ezreal pick. EDIT: Also figured I should compare to the worldwide pick rates as you point out. https://puu.sh/EeLD4/6471b3391b.png In M+ tiers, you do end up seeing those popular champs picked again. So that is a point towards the meta argument. But when you look at win rates... https://puu.sh/EeLDW/45fd54b0fd.png Once again, most of the popular squad is absent save Jinx and Lee Sin who tend to be played regardless of meta as they're both quite popular. Once again, the "meta staples" are absent from the worldwide. Once again, there's a smattering of mages, tanks, assassins, ADCs and fighters. Now if you really want to argue something, maybe pick at how 6 of the 10 top win-rate champions in the game are junglers of all persuasions including tanks, mages, assassins and generalists.
: Why do you play aram if you don't like it? I mostly play summoner's rift by the way.
> [{quoted}](name=redLizardrock,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uf3dwxsq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-08T08:41:10.820+0000) > > Why do you play aram if you don't like it? I mostly play summoner's rift by the way. That's the thing: I do like ARAM. It's my one chance to play some champs outside of roles/SR because I never really could play them elsewhere. Save Nexus Blitz, which I loved. (Although I understand why Riot removed it. RIP) It also lets me play some more meme-y builds. AP Miss Fortune. On-hit Bard. AD Thresh. etc etc. Plus I'm an old vet, having all the champs unlocked, but this puts me at a disadvantage against people who have accounts tailored to play ARAM. It's really just not fair. Not because of balance, design, gameplay or any outside factor. It's just the core account system of ARAM.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=MjrsLTba,comment-id=007d,timestamp=2019-09-05T06:13:23.007+0000) > > I don't really dig that they're in these kinda awkward Microsoft word-style variants that make it a hassle for me to read. > > Would you care if I converted it into a possible excel format? Wouldn't mind at all :)
> [{quoted}](name=Xenogenic,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=MjrsLTba,comment-id=007d0000,timestamp=2019-09-05T08:01:30.488+0000) > > Wouldn't mind at all :) Sounds good bro. Will help you out soon.
: Eternals Feedback Thread: Set 1 Uniques
I don't really dig that they're in these kinda awkward Microsoft word-style variants that make it a hassle for me to read. Would you care if I converted it into a possible excel format?
: つ ◕_◕ ༽つ MODS ARE MURDER つ ◕_◕ ༽つ
I'd post that old "just taking my mods for a walk" emoji but that one would probably not go over well lmao.
Mayobe (NA)
: So we had WC, then WoW, then DotA, then LoL, and now you want to go back to WoW? More importantly, what is it about the current state of affairs with Riot that makes anyone think for a moment that they'd be capable of managing such an enterprise?
> [{quoted}](name=Mayobe,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=H5AVYKTE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-01T03:39:09.478+0000) > > So we had WC, then WoW, then DotA, then LoL, and now you want to go back to WoW? > > More importantly, what is it about the current state of affairs with Riot that makes anyone think for a moment that they'd be capable of managing such an enterprise? Absolutely. The problem with MMOs always falls onto playability. Only a handful of MMOs still survive today and their playability ranges from "It's pretty good" to "unironically on death's doorstep". I have no doubt Riot could make an MMO that's functional, playable and even decent-to-good. The question is if they can get a profit from it and make continuous, good content.
: Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position.
> [{quoted}](name=LatetotheRace,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HW8ABzQI,comment-id=00040004,timestamp=2019-08-31T23:51:21.191+0000) > > Moderators are getting more and more pandering towards blind riotism. Really kind of depressing, but understandable from someone who has to lick feet to keep their position. It's less "blatant pandering" and more so facts. Truth is Riot has always catered far too much to casuals, much to the detriment of game health, and now we're at the point in the games life cycle where further catering to casual play is going to do irreparable damage to the game because a casual playerbase will always move on while pros are left with a game that attempted to chase that market. WoW classic perfect example of this: Blizzard spent years chasing after the casual market and constantly making changes to benefit said market. Fewer people play now than their peak. Yet a return to the good/original market (Notice that most of the people playing WoW classic _aren't_ casuals but the most dedicated hardcore crowd) is met with applause. If anything, Riot caters far too much to casuals and it's about time they start focusing on good play. Hell, doesn't even have to be pro scene: Diamond 2+ is a great metric. Plat's certainly not high ranking and medium plat balancing is a joke. Just ask any high-ranking streamer, pro or even board users here.
Show more

CaptainMårvelous

Level 197 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion