: @Any Rioter,When it comes to game balance/visuals/lore...Does Riot care about all champs equally?
Basically, in a game of 140+ champions, _someone_ has to draw the short end of the stick. As awesome as it'd be to rise to the top, certain champs just don't have the draw others do. Hence why guys like Yasuo show up in almost eveyr cinematic while more niche guys like Viktor almost never do. Generally Riot actions quicker (in my experience) in 1 of 3 circumstances: 1.) Champion is wildly popular and needs help. 2.) Champion is wildly unpopular and needs help. 3.) Champion is not super popular but is currently an issue.
Moody P (NA)
: Yes, other champions do not need to be completely reinvented. Mordekaiser is the last one.
> [{quoted}](name=Moody P,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=tiinpItX,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-04-23T18:41:54.988+0000) > > Yes, other champions do not need to be completely reinvented. Mordekaiser is the last one. ^ Most of the remaining champs really only need slight adjustments or kit work. I don't think Mundo's kit needs to be 100% replaced. Volibear needs work but there's a solid idea to salvage. Malphite might be a mess but he's a workable mess.
: League 2013 vs League 2019
I'd say just cut all CDR in half. If it gives 10, give 5. If it gives 20, give 10. You'll still hit 40% late game but it's spread out among a LOT more items.
: Lore Musings: Ionia Event?
Whoops, icons are busted from PBE. You can still click them but it looks a bit odd on the page.
Rioter Comments
: Imagine a bug where LeeSin kicks a target with Zil Ult, and they go flying only to rez like 1000 units away. xD
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=VcB9FjAE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-16T01:28:11.416+0000) > > Imagine a bug where LeeSin kicks a target with Zil Ult, and they go flying only to rez like 1000 units away. xD This but your body rewinds at 16x speed.
: would chug performance even worse and people are already struggling with the client that they need to close it to reach reasonable framerates bad idea next
> [{quoted}](name=flibitydoo,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=VcB9FjAE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-04-16T06:03:59.151+0000) > > would chug performance even worse and people are already struggling with the client that they need to close it to reach reasonable framerates bad idea next Game and client two separate things. Which, mind you, makes it even more baffling how the game is decently runnable but the client has a host of problems.
Reksee (NA)
: Quick question about this, would nunu and willump ragdoll separately or together?
> [{quoted}](name=Reksee,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=VcB9FjAE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-16T02:23:44.404+0000) > > Quick question about this, would nunu and willump ragdoll separately or together? Nunu is connected to Willump but flails around erratically.
Rioter Comments
: What champion do you think represent the game the most
{{champion:266}} * Extremely devise: People either say he's trash or a god. * Constantly a problem between pro and PUG play. * Riot refuses to balance between these two. Never picks one. * Really great ideas never followed up on. * A few player insist it's just a shoddy copy of something else (DOTA2/Riven) * A few players insist it's just worse than the old one (Seasons /Pre-Rework Aatrox) * A few players insist it's just worse lore-wise than the old lore. * I'm downvoted for saying I like it.
Bazerka (NA)
: PSA
The crown jewel of this is Morello destroying an xbox with flames.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T04:59:05.415+0000) > > This is false. > > Defensive creep slows down fights, yes, but the end result is that tactics go out the window. There is no punishment, no "strategy", and no actual thought put into these fights. Tank metas are slow, brainless matches of attrition where the winner ends up being who can outstat who. This myth that "Tank meta fights are big brain!" needs to be dispelled because they are poison to strategy, not a buffer to it. I hope you realize that this isnt true and hasnt been true for years. Tanks get %HP damage for a reason nowadays - your chicken little argument is... Galling, to say the least. > Comparatively, while you can argue it, damage metas actually require MORE strategic play. Because the punishment threshold is so high, it means there is less room to make mistakes. No. Have you not been watching professional play?! Damage metas are STAGNANT metas because if you make one misplay you tend to lose the game. There is a REASON ultra safe laners are the norm in pro play lately. Why do you think Ezreal, Vayne, and Lucian are popular? Its because they are incredibly safe champions who CAN misplay and still come out alive. > Both can be a problem but we need to get rid of this myth that tank metas are high strategy. They're just problematic for different reasons: One can be too punishing while the other is not punishing enough. You need to drop your bias against defense first and realize that slower metas have more room for error, more room for thought, and in the current runes and itemization enviornment _will never devolve into your chicken little doomsday wet noodle fight._
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-11T05:29:08.923+0000) > > I hope you realize that this isnt true and hasnt been true for years. Tanks get %HP damage for a reason nowadays - your chicken little argument is... Galling, to say the least. Tanks get %HP damage so they can itemize purely defensive and still deal damage...or well, that used to be the case. Now you have tanks with both good damage and %HP damage. Unless we're going to say Sion deals zero damage. > No. Have you not been watching professional play?! > Damage metas are STAGNANT metas because if you make one misplay you tend to lose the game. There is a REASON ultra safe laners are the norm in pro play lately. > Why do you think Ezreal, Vayne, and Lucian are popular? Its because they are incredibly safe champions who CAN misplay and still come out alive. Gonna need you to slow your roll there. [2018 had the highest diversity of champions picked in pro play.](https://picksandbans.net/2018/11/08/2018-was-a-record-setting-year-for-champion-diversity-in-pro-play/) This was, of course, back in the meta where damage was _even higher_. Of course the obvious argument is "But SINGLE PLAY DOESN'T COUNT", which also makes prior seasons less diverse. Apparently you haven't been keeping up with pro play because your argument is factually incorrect. > You need to drop your bias against defense first and realize that slower metas have more room for error, more room for thought, and in the current runes and itemization enviornment _will never devolve into your chicken little doomsday wet noodle fight._ Again, wrong. Slower metas are the crux of Season 4-6 slow, stall-out metas. Games lasting 50+ minutes with tiny amounts of kills on both sides, no team able to make a pick because of how easy it is to get out. Baron dances lasting almost half an hour as teams clear vision, put vision down, then clear it again. Meanwhile, in this meta, we have both slow and fast paced games. We have games where there are legitimate choke-out strategies and well-defined play. 2018 was a year where every region brought their own style of play and actually had variable strategy rather than a singular, correct strategy. This meta, factually, is more diverse, more strategic and offers more creative play. All that said, I am in agreement that the current runes/itemization will prevent chicken noodle fights. Sadly, with the rising cry of tank players and Riot's insistence on nerfs over buffs, we might very well dip back into the dark ages of small brain high durability metas...which, again, will eventually lead to a high damage meta to combat overwhelming tanking. Unless Riot does a bang-up job with their itemization pass. That'd be nice.
Paroe (NA)
: So i had a piece by piece response all typed up... it got eaten, but i realized something. You hate tanks and... ... You hate protection. You also equate bruisers TO tanks despite them not being defensive champions in the slightest. Your item complaints in shields - **those are all fighter or bruiser items**. Expensive. Outside an actual tanks effective reach. Your support item complaints - there are 0 items with item CDR. I dont know where you pulled that out of... but you should put it away. ENCHANTER support itemization is some of the best sustain support items in the game, and theyre cheap by need; supports dont make a lot of gold. TANK support itemization though? Complete. Garbage. Hugely ineffective considering their budget and requires a laners income to make work properly... Knights vow is barely an item, and you dont get it for the carry damage reduction. You get it for the carry sustain. Locket of the iron solari is only ever gotten by utility supports like thresh and rakan nowadays. Ill finish off with your champion complaints here... Remember this because it is VERY true and you seem to have forgotten it: _A tank even is a tank behind_. Braum: Hes what a tank should be, a champion who protects allies via interception. He is not better than yasuo as you imply, and while he does shine in protect the marksman comps... In this meta where _damage is cheaper than defense_ a support tank is a backline tank forced to protect the carry. Tahm: You seem to think tahm kench is a walking zhonyas? Yes he can protect people, thats WHAT A TANK DOES. do you just want to want to right click everyone to death all the time?! Rakan: Hes not a defensive champion. Hes an enchanter. His job is to heal, shield, and CC. Soraka, Sona, Karma, and Lulu ALL do the same thing _BETTER_. ____________________________________________________________________ It seems as though youre in the camp of "i should be able to deal all the damage" and "this game needs less defenses so i can do more damage". You, sir, are in the wrong camp. Period. Damage in this game needs to be reduced so that the meta isnt stagnant. Marksmen in this game need to be reworked as a whole so that _the meta doesnt mean "who deals with marksman the best_". Assassins in the game need to be reworked so that theyre not hyper mobile. AD bruiser itemization needs to be toned WAY down, AP bruiser itemization needs some buffs on the AP front. AP itemization in general needs some flat AP buffs.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-04-11T05:24:27.531+0000) > > You also equate bruisers TO tanks despite them not being defensive champions in the slightest. Incorrect. I have no problems with tanks. I don't mind tanks being played. Some of my most played champions are Sejuani, Naut, Zac and Blitzcrank. What I do have a problem with is the double standard given to tanks vs. damage dealers that is currently going on. I also have no problem with protection. Notice how I didn't bring up Taric despite him having arguably the strongest team-wide defensive tool in the game. That's because he has an immensely low mana pool and has a cost for the durability he can bring...much less so than other characters. Also, fighters/bruisers ARE defensive champions. They're not tanks, as you said, but they do dip into heavy defensive itemization because they have to stay alive. So right away, your main point that I hate tanks is moot. > Your item complaints in shields - **those are all fighter or bruiser items**. Expensive. Outside an actual tanks effective reach. > Your support item complaints - there are 0 items with item CDR. I dont know where you pulled that out of... but you should put it away. ENCHANTER support itemization is some of the best sustain support items in the game, and theyre cheap by need; supports dont make a lot of gold. While you are right that there aren't any items, there are runes that lower item CDR. Most supports take these because of how many actives they have. Also: "These are all fighter/bruiser items" is again incorrect. Phantom Dancer is not a tank/brusier item. Hexdrinker/Maw sees play on a variety of champions. Seraphs is not a tank/bruiser item. There is a shield item/defensive item for almost every flavor of champion in the game. If tank itemization was also as bad as you say it is, you'd see supportive tanks seeing less play. Yet you don't, because those champions have powerful innate kits _on top of_ having great items to build. You're also incorrect in supports "not making as much" as other classes. The monetary gap between a Season 9 support and a Season 3 support is like comparing a mansion to an outhouse. > Ill finish off with your champion complaints here... Remember this because it is VERY true and you seem to have forgotten it: _A tank even is a tank behind_. > > A tank should not be a tank if behind. Is an ADC an ADC if they fall behind? **No**. They're a detriment. They're not carrying the game. They cannot do their job. Again, a double standard: If an assassin falls behind he shouldn't be able to do anything because he missed his window. If a tank falls behind he deserves to be able to still do his job because tanks need special status. Yes, Braum is the ideal tank. He's also the most problematic one because of how ideal he is. Yes, Tahm is a walking zhonyas. That's _not_ what a tank does. And Rakan is absolutely an initiation tank. He has a playpattern very similar to other offensive champions: Dive in, snare/CC as much as possible. It's why Rakan best runes are defensive ones. This is the problem with your entire argument: You assume Braum/Kench/etc. doing these things is fine and "what an ideal tank should be" despite the fact that they're the reason why defensive tanking has fallen away in favor of offensive tanking: You're not going to do anything better than Braum/Kench without grossly pushing the boundary of the supportive tanking tree. > It seems as though youre in the camp of "i should be able to deal all the damage" and "this game needs less defenses so i can do more damage". You, sir, are in the wrong camp. Period. Again, wrong. It's like you completely glossed over my points and only saw "I HATE TANKS RAW RAW KILL ALL TANKS". My point is not "the game needs less defense", my point is that "Defensive creep is often overlooked and a huge part of the problem when it comes to damage". Again, you're one of those people I pointed out in my conclusion: Nerfing damage will not fix defensive creep, which will cause damage creep to rise again, which in turn creates the cycle we're currently in now. If you want to see real changes to the game, you need to dis-spell the double standard that tanks are not part of the problem, because they absolutely are. Supports as well but then you get the hybrid of tank supports which are routinely massive problems. (Alistar is still a pick ban champ despite retaining his kit since season 1).
: I agree for the most part(mainly about supports), but one thing I majorly disagree with is that mid laners have good defense. I want old Banshee's back, and I want old Abyssal Scepter back, and I want old GA back. Also Abyssal Mask only works on like 3 mid lane champions. Banshee's sucks having damage added on to it. It was better as a full defensive purchase because the passive sucks ass, making the entire item suck ass unless the passive blocks the exact thing you want it to. Zhonya's is the only good DEFENSIVE item and it's not because of it's defenses, it's because it has a powerful active. Seraph's Embrace hasn't changed, but no one seems to build it outside of the normal users, Cassiopeia, Anivia, etc. Protobelt is a few hundred HP, but nothing special and no other defensive stats to go with it. I miss actually building ONE full defensive item on champs by end game. Building FULL damage is a little TOO frustrating. It's why I actually build Spirit Visage on Kat now. Much better than Banshee's Veil even with it's passive, the health and heal buff help quite a bit. Banshee's just needs a revert, and I'd love for a lot of other items to be reverted as well(Athene's, Abyssal Scepter, GA).
> [{quoted}](name=VoraciousX,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-11T05:09:14.995+0000) > > I agree for the most part(mainly about supports), but one thing I majorly disagree with is that mid laners have good defense. I want old Banshee's back, and I want old Abyssal Scepter back. Also Abyssal Mask only works on like 3 mid lane champions. Abyssal was too strong, yet even in its current incarnation it's powerful. Zhonyas is also bar-none the best defensive item in the game and the gold standard for defensive items for damage classes. If any other class would take it, everyone would take Zhonyas. Mage items also allow for the greatest double-dip in terms of defense and offense, itemization that bruisers wish they could partake in, making almost every class of mage good in some capacity: Short range battle mages (Lissandra, Ryze), medium range mages (Swain, Neeko), close range dive mages (Galio, LeBlanc, Karthus) and even some stall champs like Anivia. Again, it's a myth perpetuated by boards that mages are in some crippled state when in actuality mages haven't truly been bad since about Season 3 or 4.
Done25 (NA)
: The difference is that defensive creep slows down fights and allows for tactics other than suicidal 5v5 death ball crash dives in mid lane. Offensive creep means Ezreal WEQ gunblades over a wall at you to proc Muramana four times in 0.25 seconds and you die instantly. Same for Rengar's leap out of stealth, or Zed/Talon/Fizz ruining your day with instant burst.
> [{quoted}](name=Done25,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HE5QZwEr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-04-11T04:52:21.835+0000) > > The difference is that defensive creep slows down fights and allows for tactics over than suicidal 5v5 death ball crash dives in mid lane. > > Offensive creep means Ezreal WEQ gunblades over a wall at you to proc Muramana four times in 0.25 seconds and you die instantly. > > Same for Rengar's leap out of stealth, or Zed/Talon/Fizz ruining your day with instant burst. This is false. Defensive creep slows down fights, yes, but the end result is that tactics go out the window. There is no punishment, no "strategy", and no actual thought put into these fights. Tank metas are slow, brainless matches of attrition where the winner ends up being who can outstat who. This myth that "Tank meta fights are big brain!" needs to be dispelled because they are poison to strategy, not a buffer to it. Comparatively, while you can argue it, damage metas actually require MORE strategic play. Because the punishment threshold is so high, it means there is less room to make mistakes. Every move, cooldown and tool must be used sparringly. It's also why damage metas upset lower-tier players the most while conversely they love tank metas the most: Punishment is highest in a damage meta, meaning their blatant and frequent mistakes are punished. Punishment is lowest in tank metas, where a player can ~~dive 1v5 and get out with 1/2 HP~~ get little-to-no punishment for bad plays that are frequently made. Both can be a problem but we need to get rid of this myth that tank metas are high strategy. They're just problematic for different reasons: One can be too punishing while the other is not punishing enough.
Rioter Comments
Zertryx (NA)
: The thing I wish this game did that other competative games do for ranked is a set of rotating maps. Starcraft for YEARS has always had rotating maps in ranked Overwatch does it CoD CS:GO Ect ... Riot a long time ago had shown art work for another 5v5 map but decided not to implement it because they were afraid it split the community, however I feel if BOTH maps were put into rotation and at the begging you could see what map you were about to play on it would allow for different champs to be used for different maps (you wouldnt even need to balance per specific map in this case, you would just have people play what ever) this would allow for different types of metas depending on map just like any other competitive game. Some maps Zerg / Terran and Toss all have different builds depending what map they on, same with OW they pick different characters base don map, LoL NEEDS that imho so if TT became a 5 player map as well and put into competitive then id be down Stop making these gimmicky custom games that they just get rid of anyways after a few weeks.
> [{quoted}](name=Zertryx,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ya7Kmwqe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-10T21:22:09.276+0000) > > The thing I wish this game did that other competative games do for ranked is a set of rotating maps. > > Starcraft for YEARS has always had rotating maps in ranked > Overwatch does it > CoD > CS:GO > Ect ... > > Riot a long time ago had shown art work for another 5v5 map but decided not to implement it because they were afraid it split the community, however I feel if BOTH maps were put into rotation and at the begging you could see what map you were about to play on it would allow for different champs to be used for different maps (you wouldnt even need to balance per specific map in this case, you would just have people play what ever) this would allow for different types of metas depending on map just like any other competitive game. > > Some maps Zerg / Terran and Toss all have different builds depending what map they on, same with OW they pick different characters base don map, LoL NEEDS that imho so if TT became a 5 player map as well and put into competitive then id be down Stop making these gimmicky custom games that they just get rid of anyways after a few weeks. Faulty comparisons. DOTA, the most similar game to League of Legends, has had a single map for years. SMITE, in its pro scene, only has one. The only game with a rotating map set and MOBA-style gameplay was HotS...and we saw what happened to that. The reason Starcraft, OW, CS:GO and more have rotating maps is because their gameplay is different. Starcraft involves base positioning and resource gathering, not just throwing yourself 1v1. CoD and CS:GO are about map gameplay and playing around said maps because the base skillset of the character isn't as deep as League/dota/etc. (Nor do they have an item shop as deep as League or varied roles). OW is about as close as you get but again, a much more shallow character skillset vs. league/dota/etc. with more emphasis on maps. As another example: Fighting games. Street Fighter, Guilty Gear and Marvel vs. Capcom maps mean literally nothing. Soul Calibur and Tekken, 3D fighters, have importance in map selection. League and DOTA don't need competitive to feature more maps. Maps are not the way to go with these games, which should revolve around characters and items rather than map.
: You gotta give it to the balance team
That's what happens when you have a game with 100+ characters, 6-10 very different and diverse roles, and a massive variance in player skill from Iron 4 SaltyTeemo regulars to literal game gods.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AKE3MN2i,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-08T05:34:04.141+0000) > > TT yes. > > ARAM has a massive amount of players though. 2 things wrong here.... 1 riot has no logic ;p proof below 2- why dont they work more on those 2 modes to IMPROVE their playerbase instead of creating something else and force them into it what really matters: all game modes should be available in customs and EVERYONE would see what is more popular and should be IMPROVED AND BALANCED... but hey ot like people been asking for this for years right
> [{quoted}](name=DARCKD00M,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AKE3MN2i,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-04-08T15:59:16.023+0000) > > 2 things wrong here.... 1 riot has no logic ;p proof below They actually do, hence why they don't. > 2- why dont they work more on those 2 modes to IMPROVE their playerbase instead of creating something else and force them into it > > what really matters: all game modes should be available in customs and EVERYONE would see what is more popular and should be IMPROVED AND BALANCED... but hey ot like people been asking for this for years right Because those modes are not historically popular, nor will they be. Dominion is the perfect example of this and why it doesn't work: The mode had its players but it didn't last nor was it popular. Yes, there is the theory that you could sink resources into these modes but the "possible benefit" doesn't outweight the cost or the risk is too great vs. the possible benefit. And hell, Riot's not the only one that did this: Both SMITE and DOTA have a mode similar to Dominion and BOTH failed. Fact is that these modes didn't need balance, they needed different design and to design champions around the mode. And before we sling the excuse "oh well YOU just didn't like those modes", let it be known I did like NB. So much so that I had every single reward you could get from it. Does it suck that it's gone? Immensely. But I also completely understand why they do it. This is a case where Riot's logic is completely sound from a business perspective but really sucks from a player perspective. At the end of the day, these modes did have the chance to get attention. ARAM, which had no balance changes for _years_, was still more popular than Nexus Blitz, a mode getting active work in the span of 2-3 patches.
: Following Riot's logic, we should cancel Twisted Treeline (And probably ARAM too)
: Why gold is way worse to play in than bronze
Being semi-serious, I can think of a few reasons: * Skill disparity really begins in Gold, as you got a wide array of good and bad players. * Dunning-Kruger is immense: Top 10% of the playerbase but a far cry from the TOP top players. * This is usually the skill rank where players have to dip more into meta than "play what you want" * A lot of people stall here because season rewards are earned and don't take it seriously.
Lolíta (NA)
: Neeko's Butt
what int he fuck
: Remember when Riot said they don't make changes to force certain metas? Good times, those were. I miss when things could grow organically without being godhanded.
Problem is when it does grow organically, it's not just Riot that hates it. See: Viktor Top Lane. Urgot Middle. Non-ADCs bot lane. For all Riot does to kill off alternate lanes, the community isn't exactly welcoming of things stepping outside the norm in either pro games _or_ casual PUGs. I miss Team Builder.
Bazerka (NA)
: What inner dialogues do you have / actively try to defeat?
"Your ideas actually aren't good." "You're not improving." "They talk about you behind your back and hate being around you." Just your casual middle school level bullshit, y'know?
: And a vast majority of Yordles are amongst the least played and least popular champions in the game. Aurelion whilst beautiful is vastly unplayed. Rek'sai is the least played champion in the entire game. Annie has sat at a 1% playrate for a long consistent amount of time despite being one of the OGs. I've seen you and multiple others mention how a champ like this wouldn't be widely popular as if it matters. Champs like this should and DO when they'd arguably still appeal to a lot of people and perform well enough to fill their collective niche. Champs like this aren't expected to have mass appeal but they still exist regardless. On top of that a broad 200 - 300 people isn't much but it IS enough to determine it's a niche WITH appeal. The boards have maximum 2000 consistent users and 200 - 300 people is a rough 10 - 13% market.
And if 2000 people were Riot's max than yeah. League, however, is a massive game with far reaches across the world. As a reminder, I'm all for this champion, but from a business perspective I can also understand why Riot wouldn't want to go all-in on this. And yes, popularity _does_ matter. Notice how Season 5-6 was a period of odd experimentation (Illaoi, ivern, Camille, Aurelion, etc.) filling in oddities that don't 100% fit the normal popularity curve. While I love these champions, it's undeniable that a massive chunk of them aren't as popular anymore. Popularity leads to love, which leads to sales, which leads to revenue, which feeds back into popularity. Does it suck? Yes. Should Riot make an old champion lady? _Yes._ But at the same time, it is understandable how and why these champions don't get the love or chance others do.
: "No one wants an old lady champion." Literally everyone here thus far: "I love this and need this in my life. I'd die for this old woman." That being said... Riot please.
While I 2000% support this and love 33lom (She helped design all my champs from a visual standpoint!), popularity among about 200-300 people =/= Riot stats. I'm willing to be there's probably a massive majority who don't really care for this champ. Which sucks, because it's fuckin' awesome.
: Well you asked if you could have an earnest explanation my bro, and there it be. As for the your letters, I can only guess why. A) Like said, it was a resource thing. Sure things may have changed by now, but now we got the entirety of Nexus Blitz being worked on. I imagine it's about priority and what will reap the greatest benefit for the time invested into it. B) Because it's less work to swap out the maps every once and a while. I'm not sure what it means by "To be switched on" (Like a toggle or something for Aram??) in their answer, but obviously there's a bunch of different ways they bring it back, each it's own different work. A random chance for map, being able to toggle the appearance, straight up permanently replacing it, players being able to choose individually, I dunno. C) Well yeah, money is always nice. Like said in A. though, it's about the greatest benefit for resources committed. That survey you mentioned, it's likely not enough people judged "Skin map boosters' interesting enough to be worth paying for. If I had to guess the questions asked about the benefits of bringing back Butchers Bridge permenantly, as opposed to spending that time and resources elsewhere, here are the two questions that'd matter most. * 1: Will this attract more players to the mode, or drive players away? I'm sure there are folk who enjoy the frejord just as much as you do Bilgewater, and would be upset to see their map taken away and thrown to the wayside for a mode they might not have interest in. * 2: Will doing this turn a profit? Riot is a business, after all, and not all choices can be purely from a player convenience perspective, hence why we need to grind BE for champs. Using Nexus Blitz as a counter example, the time put into a new, faster, different experience has the ability to attract more people than those who like longer games at SR. You're still playing Aram though, and Aram sometimes isn't a person's jam, no matter the look. ~~Belatedly, why couldn't you turn Butchers Bridge into the 1v1 map?~~ I don't see Riot's reasons evaporating, because that'd imply that there are less and less things competing for Riot's teams to work on. Development priorities will always have something new to place on the pile, and the things that are on the bottom typically are on the bottom for a reason. The question remains, Buddy o' Pal, what is the reason that Butcher's Bridge is on the bottom? The answer: It's not worth the time investment. Why? Who knows.
Yeah, I have a real hard time believing the resource thing. If Riot is willing to devote major resources into Prestige Skins, which not everyone asked for, vs. Butcher's Bridge, a frequently requested thing, I don't see how they couldn't find the way to make it work. Plus the span of two years makes it doubly hard to believe that not once in two years was it worked on. Oh. Wait. It was. Hence why we have it now as well as during Pyke/Darkwater Release. And yes, the goal would be to have it a selectable thing and/or random chance. Hell, even as shitty as it'd be I'd rather have the map skinbooster thing instead of JUST NOT EXISTING. As for your questions: 1.) Yes. It will. One of the biggest things about ARAM which drives people away is the aesthetic and balance. Both of which were semi-fixed with this update. In addition, being able to experience different maps in a queue is a draw that other modes can't offer and thus create a drive for players to try it and experience it. 2.) It can easily turn a profit if monetized correctly. Skins are a dying art form as more and more champions end up with 4-5 skins, which creates a massive arms race to try and make the next 1350 even better and fill a drastically different theme. Conversely, Riot could easily make a ton of money by selling Butcher's Bridge as a map skin for players. A one time 10-20 pricetag to play on the map forever? I'd buy it. Plus, as it's an entirely new thing, it's a long-term "investment" until Riot makes a map theme which I'd prefer (A far, distant thing). >I don't see Riot's reasons evaporating, because that'd imply that there are less and less things competing for Riot's teams to work on. Development priorities will always have something new to place on the pile, and the things that are on the bottom typically are on the bottom for a reason. The question remains, Buddy o' Pal, what is the reason that Butcher's Bridge is on the bottom? Then you and I are looking at different things. Apparently the alternate game team is working overtime on one-to-two new modes, which aren't as common anymore which begs the question if something like Odyssey takes 6+ months to put together. I don't have an answer to that, mind you. Two, it begs the question why Butcher's Bridge was worked on (and yes, it was for Pyke's update) as well as now yet is still on the backburner. Development priorities are one thing. Pushing one up, finishing it, then shelfing it is another. And yeah, I did say Butcher's Bridge should be the ARAM map while Howling Abyss becomes a 1v1 queue for people who like that. That'd be perfect. Instead we don't have that. I'd like to draw a parallel to the skins vs. "new forms of income": It's not worth the time investment because apparently Butcher's Bridge is a risk while a Prestige Skin isn't. The question is if this is Riot passing up an opportunity like they did with a phone-version of League or a sound business decision. With each consecutive time I see BB come back, the former sounds more true while the latter seems more preposterous.
: https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/02/ask-riot-where-is-butchers-bridge/ Here ya go bud
Doesn't answer anything my dude: A.) This was two years ago. The landscape in league and in Riot has changed immensely. Also considering the stuff Riot has said they're working on ("New game modes and Practice tool", both of which now come out less frequently.), two years seems like a decent amount of time for parity. B.) This doesn't answer, at all, why they bring it back on occasion yet can't find a way to bring it back in a more frequent manner. Apparently it's good enough to bring back semi-annually with Pyke and ARAM changes yet not enough to be a frequent part. C.) Years ago (Like 2016), I got a survey asking if I'd pay for a skin map booster. It never panned out, of course, but apparently if money is involved BB would get a fast track. And yes, BB coming back as a paid form wouldn't be ideal but at least it'd be back. For Riot, the reasons why Butcher's Bridge can't be a frequent pick are evaporating faster than water in the desert.
Rioter Comments
: What if we removed runes and masteries?
Remove all pregame systems save for Summoner Spells. Base champions only around what they bring into the game. Edit base stats to compensate.
: So uh... that new Zed skin.
I NEED MORE **POWER** https://i.imgur.com/W1i5NBS.jpg
: The Grand Archives of Piltover [CONTEST]
[THE WINNERS](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/RiVNswBT-the-grand-archives-of-piltover-the-winners)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=7EWMAtGj,comment-id=00630000,timestamp=2019-03-30T01:34:19.823+0000) > > Winners got announced like two weeks ago, lol. > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/RiVNswBT-the-grand-archives-of-piltover-the-winners Oh, maybe edit this into the starting post then.
: Hope I don't bother anybody asking, but are there any updates on this? It's been a while since we got any info about the judging.
Winners got announced like two weeks ago, lol. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts/RiVNswBT-the-grand-archives-of-piltover-the-winners
: Ehhh... None of the Riot events seem as fun as they used to to me at least. Silly skins are okay I guess but I miss the days of like thr original pool party skins where the community had to work together for tiers or other events like the freljord one that turned things into a faction battle. Then all of the pentakill events. The cats versus dog even seems like an even bigger step down from previous Riot events and it seems like they're relying more on skins than their general ability to be creative with quests at this point.
I can tell your age by what you consider the "original" events, lol. Those events were like 2014 or 2015. Hell, Pentakill isn't even an in-game event. Just something they release outside of it. The REAL original events were just some new skins and a changed map for the first 1-2 years or so. (Or throwback to the Halloween one where you had to buy $100 of RP to get all the icons). There's also something to be said about quest size. I know a few people who can't do all the quests because they can't really sit down and do like 30-40 quests. Hell, with my new job I find that I have even less time to play league and that playing commits an hour on a weekday or so just to play one game.
Rioter Comments
: You're getting downvoted because you're saying champions should require skill and game knowledge to play them well... What a perfect representation of the boards
I mean it's not unexpected tbh. A lot of lower-tier players in Gold-to-Iron like playing champions like Azir or Ryze because they have a cool thematic. I'm basically telling them "You won't play them until you git gud", which can definitely peeve some peeps.
Naalith (NA)
: I'm also fine with them being busted as shit in pro play and not being nerfed down because of it. Pro play champions are usually high skill cap so hard to use in lower ranks as is, but when they are "balanced" around pro play they are basically unusable for everyone. Either they should do my first suggestion and just turn the worst offenders off in pro matches, or they should allow the Shurima shufflers, Q>E>W>Q>E>Q>E>Q>E>Q spammers, teammate eaters, girlfriend shielders, and other characters to break pro play and let regular people also have the chance to learn them. Right now we have the worst system, where champions who aren't even that good but have an interesting mechanic pro play likes on a team comp get absolutely dumpstered to the point where only the most hardcore mains will keep playing them. Any solution which returns pro play nerfed champions to regular people gets a thumbs up from me.
Completely agree. Hell, I'd be fine with even bad champions being buffed for pros provided they remain simplistic pubstompers. The main problem is that these champs aren't "nerfed" per se but instead made accessible. Which lowers how much skill it takes to use them which, in turn, makes them busted in pro for EVERYONE, then nerfed. Aurelion Sol is a good example where this actually works: Only a handful can play him super well but if you let them get Sol, he can absolutely CRUSH ASS like a trash compactor. Sadly IIRC he's also up for a nice clean-up for "skill". :\
Naalith (NA)
: If a champion is really that insane in pro play to the point where they are worthless for 99% of the playerbase, they should just be turned off in pro. I'm serious. Riot banned funnel strategy and a couple other degenerate strategies from pro play over the years even before the strategy had in-game nerfs. Back in the day it was just Azir and Ryze. Now it seems like every month a champion is getting shit on because of pro play and it honestly makes the game feel shallow.
Well that's not a good idea. "Turn off a champion in pro play" also already happens with lower-skill champions who don't bring enough to pro play to warrant being picked. While a controversial opinion, I think having certain characters busted in pro play but shit in pug play is good. Players who want to use these champions should aspire to them, practice hard and really have to knuckle down. Having everyone be pickable for even the most average player feels rather bad. Riot's super guilty of this as well with things such as the Alistar pulverize change or taking cool mechanics like the Ryze zhonya's warp and removing them "so it's easier for everyone".
CLG ear (NA)
: probably too difficult logistically to issue them; and a majority of people sell them on ebay
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AUEq8EVh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-16T07:03:27.129+0000) > > probably too difficult logistically to issue them; and a majority of people sell them on ebay Also the occasional situation where a guy like QT climbs to challenger with four accounts so you end up sending 3-4 physical rewards to one guy.
Moody P (NA)
: I feel like this rune system only gets realized fully in the hands of limited champions
I think it comes down to how certain champs just can't make as good use of other runes. The most "successful" champs with RR are ones who don't really have one rune that synergies SO WELL with them. Like with Darius he works well with Conq but he's not really an autoattacker. He could go grasp for more defense. He could go phase rush for more speed, blah blah blah. There's variety because Darius isn't overwhelmingly good with one rune. But some champs just work so well with ONE thing they end up having to take it. Assassins don't really need predator and DH was nerfed so elec is about the only thing that works with an assassin. Tanks need to survive longer so there's really no need to take anything but aftershock/grasp. Honestly I think the best way to fix it is to add more keystones, remove the biggest general keystones (Aftershock for something else) or improve minor runes so it's more valuable to various champ types to try other pages. It's still pretty diverse but there are some clear gaps of archetypes that got left behind.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eekdIeA2,comment-id=00000003,timestamp=2019-03-14T02:15:21.681+0000) > > H M M Well, except for that. Fan hosted fanfiction contests are sparse and far apart, and is very likely to have some mishap(cough it's March cough). On the other hand, with official contests, it goes a lot more smoothly. Despite all this, well done, Captain! Please traipse over to my entry(even tho I kinda knew I wouldn't win, I'm only 9th grade) and tell me what you think, and host more contests plz. PLZ.
I was actually more so interested in "But I can say, it's a long term goal for the narrative team here to bring in new voices, and harness the passion of our fans. There have been mysterious conversations." and not so much "YEAH WELL WHAT ABOUT ME" (Which from the downvotes people thought I was doing). Anything Riot officially does will almost always be head-and-shoulders above fan content. The thing is...well, they've done it sparsely. I'd love to see Riot take a more hands-on approach and start encouraging people to write about their setting. My big question is what they have planned. I'd love to see some earnest, amazing writers get features or collabs like artists or streamers do.
Jeddy017 (NA)
: Wait, what?
Ex-Rioters write for TDP. I met a few of them a few years back.
: Ironically, Yasuos only weakness is...
Disagree but I don't think you're TOO far off. The biggest thing I've always found with Yasuo is that he's designed incredibly well because while he has counters, he has an answer to his counters. The thing that trips up most Yas players is that they think having this means they're immune to their enemies which ends up not true. A yasuo who dashes through an entire minion wave to slap the mage is suddenly out of position and wasted his escape "line". Windwall is immensely powerful if you know when to use it but some Yasuo players think "YES WINDWALL NO MORE CS FOR YOU" Honestly kinda wish everyone was designed like Yasuo where they had answers to their counters at the cost of raising skill cap.
: "The Dragon Prince" nailed several of Vladimir's key tropes
Then you realize some of the writers for TDP are ex-Rioters. :P
: There's been one official contest that I know of, through [Polycount in 2017/2018](https://polycount.com/discussion/198871/riot-creative-contest-2017-winners-narrative#latest). The winner was a player active on the boards, [Blood Magicks](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/EUW/Blood%20Magicks), and she ended up writing Vlad's AWESOME[](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/vladimir/) [new bio](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/vladimir/) as well!! Unfortunately, I haven't heard of any new contests, including the contests run by EUW/EUNE. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} But I can say, it's a long term goal for the narrative team here to bring in new voices, and harness the passion of our fans. There have been mysterious conversations.
> [{quoted}](name=Interlocutioner,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eekdIeA2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-03-13T00:02:20.026+0000) > > There's been one official contest that I know of, through [Polycount in 2017/2018](https://polycount.com/discussion/198871/riot-creative-contest-2017-winners-narrative#latest). The winner was a player active on the boards, [Blood Magicks](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/player/EUW/Blood%20Magicks), and she ended up writing Vlad's AWESOME[](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/vladimir/) [new bio](https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/vladimir/) as well!! > > Unfortunately, I haven't heard of any new contests, including the contests run by EUW/EUNE. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} > > But I can say, it's a long term goal for the narrative team here to bring in new voices, and harness the passion of our fans. There have been mysterious conversations. H M M
GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Accounts made only for ARAM are working really well for URF too. That's why all champs should be unlocked for those modes, just like it happened with Blitz.
> [{quoted}](name=GreenKnight,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=hGanbcH1,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-03-13T21:02:45.343+0000) > > Accounts made only for ARAM are working really well for URF too. > > That's why all champs should be unlocked for those modes, just like it happened with Blitz. ^^^ "Your champ pool plus the last two free weeks" isn't good enough.
: Rioters: "Thoughtful, respectful posts are the way to attract Riot attention."
I'll admit it is frustrating when (besides this Asol/Riven stuff) the last time major balance discussion happened across the entire community (Reddit, Boards and otherwise) was when Hashinshin told Riot to kill themselves.
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CaptainMårvelous

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