Kloqdq (NA)
: I'd like to see C&C promoted more!
lmao who cares about c&c dude Jokes aside, it's something we'd like to do and have been brainstorming about. You'll probably see more projects out of us in terms of contests, feedback and more. Right now, we're just trying to figure out the absolute best way to get C&C out to the world without having some of the nastier problems that could be associated with it, like "Why are you showcasing <x>'s concept but not mine!?" or playing favorites with a form of media, such as pushing comics up all the time but ignoring fan fics. It's a cliche but we know and we hear you! We're just trying to put a roadmap into place. In the meantime, expect more contests and collaborations to be had in the future!
: Awesome post! It's amazing to think that not too long ago, Shaco was granting interviews to journalists, and threatening them with movie quotes. Which has a certain amount of charm. (Check out [JoJ issue 13](http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/The_Journal_of_Justice:_Volume_1,_Issue_13) {{sticker:zombie-nunu-hearts}}) But as Runeterra becomes a richer setting for storytelling, I think we can find room to make him Shaco even more horrifying. And yeah, I saw the movie last night and can't stop thinking about it/It either.
Just give Shaco an ability that turns him into that fucking painting monster and we're golden. Like that painting monster fucked me up.
: So are comics going to be a regular thing now?
Seems likely. Not to say I know the future or anything but this is comic #3 in the span of a few weeks. We're probably going to stop getting them sometime soon for a bit (As they have to make more) but overall it's not something I assume Riot would shelve.
: I do believe that Riot can differentiate Shaco from Pennywise (and the Joker) So, in my opinion Pennywise is what Shaco **shouldn't be**. Just look at other champion that they remade: {{champion:19}} ... Before his VU he was an standart "werewolf", but now, he is an awesome chemtech Quimera. Right now, Shaco is a simple copy/mix of The Joker/It, but he can be better.
Eeeeeeh. There are aspects of a classic werewolf there as well as the homonculus-style character. The goal shouldn't be to 1:1 copy what works (as I pointed out) but take the ideas that do work and put a unique spin on them. And honestly, Shaco really isn't "anything" right now IMO. He's a crate of scary clown stuff with no real direction.
  Rioter Comments
: PBE? What's that? You mean "YouTubers/Streamers play here to show off new shit" server?
TEN MILLION AP DAMAGE!? [VEIGAR BUFF????] *Bugs quietly slip around the video and slide into the core game*
Raoul (EUW)
: Hmmm who else but Sejuani has this kind of Skillshot?
Same as the post: Sejuani, Rengar and now Xin Zhao.
Atuko (NA)
: "riot held off on nerfing janna because she has a new skin coming out scumbags"
LONG HAVE WE WAITED SORAKA SEDATED SONA BELATED LULU CRATED NAMI BAITED NOW JANNA DEFLATED
: "I wonder why they reverted Fiora nerfs?"
Ok we all knew that but the real question is who still uses tinypic?
Rioter Comments
: Frequently Asked Questions About the Upcoming Leveling and Rewards Changes
Hm, not bad. I do like that the BE store comes back often so it gives you a chance to get things you missed the first time. That said, I think there's still some lacking content for vets. Although, if RIot "retires" aspects of the store over the course of the time, it could be a good way to separate those who could get all the cool stuff vs. those who joined late and could not. Still, overall, I think this is a good thing regardless of my complaints. I just hope that the future is bright for both old and new players. EDIT: I will say; Gemstone pricing is fucked up. URFwick is worth about two gemstones. Which means stuff like Annie/Darius/etc. are worth almost a million-plus BE. But that's a separate issue.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P76sz2ma,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-12T21:43:42.660+0000) > > Well not anymore anyways. ok captain obvious way to not get it {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
> [{quoted}](name=jwebb0113,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P76sz2ma,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-12T21:48:06.175+0000) > > ok captain obvious way to not get it > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}} Was adding to the joke. It's quite clear and obvious what the joke was. Reading way too deeply into it dude.
: > [{quoted}](name=420 grams,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P76sz2ma,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-12T18:23:34.312+0000) > > Fake news i know right... he dont have a gf
> [{quoted}](name=jwebb0113,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=P76sz2ma,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-12T18:26:29.475+0000) > > i know right... he dont have a gf Well not anymore anyways.
: I could do with less jugger-boners on these boards
Could you imagine if Juggergods were actually top-tier in high level play? The QQ that would emerge from Darius 1v5-ing enemy teams or Yorick being an unkillable meat wall would be delicious.
: Most people right now :
She didn't blast him out because he said Urgot. She's confused as to how a boy got in here.
Rioter Comments
: Invasion game mode summed up in one picture.
Hey guys! While I feel this picture on a spiritual level, this is unfortunately in the wrong place. Memes and Games is the right place for this, not SAS. That said, going to lock it. Sorry guys, but feel free to post it there!
: Watching the weather channel right now in Florida:
YAMEROOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO In all seriousness, if it's not a 5 when it hits us, I'm not feeling it. Been through enough hurricanes to know that the most annoying thing is the week or two after when you're waiting for FPL to turn the fuckin' pwoer back on.
Nea104 (EUW)
: They count on younger people, without a true sense of money (AKA parents' wallet). Sad.
Not so much that as people who don't double check. Did you know that if you go to the store, the border Star Guardian skins are on the front page? If you only want the skin and not the border, you have to skip to the skins tab and pick them out individually. It's not "wrong" but it's manipulative.
: Why does the Star Guardian event Alienate Solo players?
Because Sailor Moon is a team. Wait for the Tuxedo Mask event. No but really, that shit is so fucking hard it's crazy. IMO riot overtuned the shit out of onslaught.
Aikeko (EUW)
: Worst missions EVER.
Someone doesn't remember the Burning Tide missions. "Kill 1500 minions in BMB" or some shit. Good god.
: If the Map Accents were toggle-able for the Arcade Event...
My idea is that it's probably some hyper advanced form of 'ghetti code. Like if I had to guess, I'd say they jerryrigged the accents but only one can be activated at a time while the announcer VOs are replaced over the core announcer or some shit like that. Like the whole thing is held together with duct tape and dreams.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EA0AujlR,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2017-09-06T20:44:22.470+0000) > > That&#x27;s nice. Except it still does nothing against the massive amount of displacements in league. An average team comp these days has far more displacements and slows than hard CC in the form of stuns/snares/roots. > > Until tenacity does something with displacements, it&#x27;s going to be a pretty bad stat. In that case you acn just take something else Tenacity has always been best against shorter duration CCs. I could see this being used against a Syndra in mid for example, because a max range stun means you can actually run out of her range most likely before she can unload. That's nice. If you face a Morg and you want to reduce her long duration snare you're doing it wrong. Tanks will love this regardless
And you know what's the shortest duration CCs? Hint: Displacement. That think _tenacity doesn't do shit against_. Even if your argument was true, Tenacity has not "always been best against shorter duration CC". Tenacity was the counter to long CC that used to exist in a large amount on teams carrying five 2-3 second fears/taunts/etc.. Reducing a 3 second stun to 2 seconds if far more impacting than reducing a 1 second root to 0.66 second rooting. Reducing a tiny stun barely matters because chances are if you got hit, you're probably already dead or about to be. Tanks don't care about CC. Tanks are designed to soak CC. They don't care about tenacity because if you're CCIng a tank, you're doing it wrong. You know who DOES care about CC? Melee champions who are bruisers and/or carries. They're the ones hurt the most by CC. This doesn't do anything against the Vayne who knocks you back and pushes you further away. Tanks don't need this. Bruisers/Assassins/etc. need a tool to deal with this ranged, uncounterable CC insanity. Not more of a state that does piddly.
: Runes Corner: More Precision Runes
>Gain 3% tenacity plus an additional 5% for every Legend stack (max 5). That's nice. Except it still does nothing against the massive amount of displacements in league. An average team comp these days has far more displacements and slows than hard CC in the form of stuns/snares/roots. Until tenacity does something with displacements, it's going to be a pretty bad stat.
abdul569 (EUW)
: How would people feel if we remove items that give ADCs their AoE?
Here's my feeling on it: items SHOULD be allowed to compensate for weaknesses. If you want waveclear on a non-waveclear ADC, you should be able/allowed to pick these items. However, it doesn't excuse how effective these items actually are. Especially since the changes to melee/ranged minions taking different types of damage. An item should help cover up a weakness, not 100% turn a weakness into a strength.
: I think they also made it so that it has to be unique abilities that activate it, not multihits.
TLD is also far more spaced out in terms of CD. At a glance, new TLD is more powerful. Yet it doesn't account for the copious amounts of chip-damage you could build up by constantly hitting 2-3 abilities in lane. While new TLD might be stronger, getting an extra 30-40 damage per trade in lane added up. Fast.
: Instead of buffing champions who are weak can we start nerfing champions who are strong instead
I would rather have power normalization. Reset the curve entirely. Buff -and- nerf those who need it. I think people need to be reminded that Riot caught a huge amount of flak in Seasons 1-3 because their balance strategy was to nerf everything into a fun-sized variant until we're all holding toothpicks. Nerfing everything won't fix the problem, it'll just reverse the problem and make games 2 hour long slogfest wet noodle fights. (AKA: The main criticism of Dunkey's league quitting video about 2+ years ago.)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=q3aIr5bf,comment-id=00020002,timestamp=2017-09-06T03:01:54.758+0000) > > As someone who played City of Heroes, what the hell are you talking about? > > CoH got a constant stream of free updates and the only expansion they had (City of Villains) was a single game. Yes, you had to pay a subfee (ala WoW) but in turn you were also given free updates all the time. New zones, new missions, new content, new costumes, badges, etc. CoH gave you free stuff because they needed to keep players invested. Company of Heroes, as mentioned in my original comment. That's what the hell I was talking about.
> [{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=q3aIr5bf,comment-id=000200020000,timestamp=2017-09-06T12:40:31.766+0000) > > Company of Heroes, as mentioned in my original comment. That&#x27;s what the hell I was talking about. OH. LOL. Awkward. Sorry man, abbreviations are all over the play in the video game world.
Rioter Comments
: I agree that people seem to be up in arms over this and I don't understand it. I'm 40 and went from console games that had no community, w/exception of game magazines to online gaming in the late 90's over 56k (ha 56k!) To now. Never in the last 18 years have I felt more engaged by a company than this one. Played Company Of Heroes from release in 2006 to 2013. You want to know how many times the developers responded directly with players? Not much and no where near the amount Riot does. Free content from COH? Zilch. Before that I Played Battlefield. Same thing. Little engagement and nearly no free anything. I concede those games and the time frame we're different in terms of pricing models etc, but engaging the community? That's free. I feel Riot is doing more than enough. They did not have to reimburse anything. However,they acknowledged players and the work they put in and came up with what I feel is fair reimbursement.
> [{quoted}](name=Bello Bagheera,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=q3aIr5bf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-05T16:37:23.436+0000) > > Free content from COH? Zilch. As someone who played City of Heroes, what the hell are you talking about? CoH got a constant stream of free updates and the only expansion they had (City of Villains) was a single game. Yes, you had to pay a subfee (ala WoW) but in turn you were also given free updates all the time. New zones, new missions, new content, new costumes, badges, etc. CoH gave you free stuff because they needed to keep players invested.
: I'm happy to talk about what else we could do to make veterans feel better (I personally think we should do something unique for vets besides these rewards and the emotes—just not more BE) but in order for us to have that conversation we have to at least be agreed on the basic facts, right?
That's fine. It just doesn't read strongly. "Hey guess what you're getting 24% instead of 12%" just sort of feels like an annoying fact-check someone makes that doesn't really make you feel better. IMO Cact, you should open a thread with a poll, highlighting suggestions about what it's feasible for Riot to do for vets in terms of rewards. Knowing what Riot could do would make it easier for us to pick out things we like/dislike.
: I wanna jump in here to say that I think a lot of what OP is saying here is valid and true. Runes were never a good experience for players. They were basically a barrier between you and your ability to be really competitive in ranked, and the only way to overcome that barrier was by grinding. Not really "pay-to-win" but more like "play-a-crapload-to-get-on-at-least-even-ground." Now that we're removing that barrier for all players, people who had to go through the gauntlet feel like they got a raw deal. So, for that reason, we do think it makes sense for us to give a little back to folks who went through the gauntlet to get runes. That's why we're rolling out the rune rewards, and emotes for players based on how many hours they've played. I think we're open to the idea of doing a little more for veterans, but it'll have to be something like giving you something cool that lets you show off how long you've been in the game—giving away tons more BE just isn't that feasible. I want to be really transparent about our thinking behind the rune rewards, because there's definitely a lot of confusion around that. I think we've screwed up by repeatedly using language like "investment" around runes, because they were never meant as something you literally invest in in the hopes of getting a return on. And we're for sure not going to do a full refund on runes, because we don't think that replacing a system with a better system should trigger a refund on the old thing; That's not a precedent that we're going to set. Plus (and this is real talk mode cactopus), the fact is that us giving away IP has consequences. IP/BE is worth money for Riot—giving it away cuts into future champ sales. We can pretty closely estimate how many RP-based champ sales we'll lose over any given time period after giving away IP, and I want to make it clear here that selling champs is a huge part of the way Riot makes money so we can reinvest in the game. Also, by merging the runes and masteries system into a new, free system, we're already investing in a major upgrade to the game. This costs money, but we think it's worth it for the future of League. So, the goal with the rewards we've announced is to recognize the time you’ve spent getting Runes and reward you fairly for it, without going overboard. That's why we're doing what we're doing. One more thing that I've gotta call out is this idea that you're only getting back 12% of what you spent on runes if you bought them before 2017. That's just not true—the actual number (depending on which ones you bought) is a lot likelier closer to double that. I showed how to calculate your rune rewards in this reddit comment: https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6xga15/riot_pls_leveling_ip_and_rewards_nexus_league_of/dmfpgdi/?utm_content=permalink&utm_medium=user&utm_source=reddit&utm_name=frontpage I hope that makes sense. I'm happy to follow up and answer any questions y'all have.
>One more thing that I've gotta call out is this idea that you're only getting back 12% of what you spent on runes if you bought them before 2017. That's just not true—the actual number (depending on which ones you bought) is a lot likelier closer to double that. I showed how to calculate your rune rewards in this reddit comment. Cacto, that's not a strong argument. Getting back 24% of what we spent isn't an incredible amount over 12%. Hell, it's just short of a fourth of what we spent. Hell, you could return us 40% (Like that test survey) and still give us more back without going into absurd 100% refund territories.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=00150006,timestamp=2017-09-04T22:35:43.160+0000) > > 100/300 isn't even 10% of most rune costs Oh, come on. You want me to digg up the old prices in the wikia History? At a minimum, with the current prices displayed, we have 66 types of Runes at 820 **or lower** IP, where a 100 IP refund is **at least** 12%, which is already more than the "not even 10%" you claim. A large fraction of them are even 410 or lower, meaning **at least** 25% refund. Same deal for Quints, we have 31 Quints with a max price of 2050, were a 300 refund corresponds to a 15% refund. The majority of them are 1025 or lower, so a 30% refund. All in all, the amount refunded can NOT go below 12%, but for most people it should be somewhere around at least 20%, double what you claim. You can talk about principles and good practices and customer relationship all you want, but if you're gonna throw numbers in the discussion, at least be honest about them....
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=001500060000,timestamp=2017-09-04T23:04:01.796+0000) > > Oh, come on. You want me to digg up the old prices in the wikia History? At a minimum, with the current prices displayed, we have 66 types of Runes at 820 **or lower** IP, where a 100 IP refund is **at least** 12%, which is already more than the &quot;not even 10%&quot; you claim. A large fraction of them are even 410 or lower, meaning **at least** 25% refund. > > Same deal for Quints, we have 31 Quints with a max price of 2050, were a 300 refund corresponds to a 15% refund. The majority of them are 1025 or lower, so a 30% refund. > > All in all, the amount refunded can NOT go below 12%, but for most people it should be somewhere around at least 20%, double what you claim. You can talk about principles and good practices and customer relationship all you want, but if you&#x27;re gonna throw numbers in the discussion, at least be honest about them.... Ah, alright, my mistake. Even so, those refunds are pretty pitiful comparative to what Riot could be doing. Again, Riot is claiming to be the most player-focused company in the world. If a large veteran playerbase is upset with this and feel that they're getting played for something they had to buy, it isn't very played focused.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:23:55.871+0000) > > Vets have so much because we spent time, money and energy on this game. I&#x27;m not a Tier 1 vet (I didn&#x27;t play in beta) but I joined around 2010 so I&#x27;m plenty old. We spend money on the game. We put up with the rune/IP stuff. We were around for all of Riot&#x27;s ups, downs and sideways. > > Many players feel that Riot isn&#x27;t fairly compensating vets. Vets get very ltitle return investment based on what they spent and, depending on the person, that could make a huge difference. A company should reward loyalty and sticking with them for nearly a decade, not give them a meh reward for such a long time of play. > > Also- 8 Gemstones being worth 100 is artifical rarity. Riot could easily tweak the drop rates. Oh, wait, they are. Besides, $100 comparative to 8 years of playtime averages out to about $12.50 a year. I think Riot can afford 12.50 a year, especially if you were giving them business for 8. There's a specific monetary reason things are done in a certain way. Rewarding loyalty to a company use to be a thing in like the 80's, but nowadays sign-ups are what drives stock, not the base. (e.g. the number of new credit lines matters more to a company share price than the number of people with credit cards)
> [{quoted}](name=Rand0mH3r0X,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2017-09-04T22:51:46.195+0000) > > There&#x27;s a specific monetary reason things are done in a certain way. > > Rewarding loyalty to a company use to be a thing in like the 80&#x27;s, but nowadays sign-ups are what drives stock, not the base. > (e.g. the number of new credit lines matters more to a company share price than the number of people with credit cards) I unfortunately know that feel all too well. My mother worked for a company for almost 20+ years. She lost her job because they could hire new employees to do her work for a fraction of the price, despite the rapport she built with her clientele and the company she worked with. It's a sad state.
: I love how you're getting downvoted for this post. People don't seem to grasp the idea that runes don't need to be refunded. You bought the runes to get an in-game benefit. And you received that benefit, and have used that benefit. Why should you get that in-game benefit AND all of the IP spend refunded? People that bought runes just this season have had a single season to benefit from those runes, and are likely new players (who could use that IP more than people with every champ). New players have received very little benefit from the IP they have spent, because it's all just this year. My wife started this year and has spent IP on runes and is just starting to receive benefit from them, but has very few champions because the runes are expensive. I started last year and I got most of the runes I wanted then, and have used this years IP to buy champs. The IP I spent on runes has given me the benefit of playing better all season, so I've already 'used' them. The IP my wife spent on runes has barely benefited her, really only against other new players, so hers haven't really been 'used' and are more deserving of being refunded. I do think runes from all year being refunded is a bit much, but I am grateful for it for those that receive it. The remaining 10% or whatever that is refunded to everybody else is a bonus. You've 'used' your runes, and will be benefiting from the new mastery system, and on top of that you get IP/BE back. But I guess people just are feeling left out because they have played the game for years and don't have their participation trophies yet.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Zudane,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=00150007,timestamp=2017-09-04T22:37:59.192+0000) > > I love how you&#x27;re getting downvoted for this post. People don&#x27;t seem to grasp the idea that runes don&#x27;t need to be refunded. > > You bought the runes to get an in-game benefit. And you received that benefit, and have used that benefit. Why should you get that in-game benefit AND all of the IP spend refunded? People that bought runes just this season have had a single season to benefit from those runes, and are likely new players (who could use that IP more than people with every champ). > > New players have received very little benefit from the IP they have spent, because it&#x27;s all just this year. My wife started this year and has spent IP on runes and is just starting to receive benefit from them, but has very few champions because the runes are expensive. I started last year and I got most of the runes I wanted then, and have used this years IP to buy champs. The IP I spent on runes has given me the benefit of playing better all season, so I&#x27;ve already &#x27;used&#x27; them. The IP my wife spent on runes has barely benefited her, really only against other new players, so hers haven&#x27;t really been &#x27;used&#x27; and are more deserving of being refunded. > > I do think runes from all year being refunded is a bit much, but I am grateful for it for those that receive it. The remaining 10% or whatever that is refunded to everybody else is a bonus. You&#x27;ve &#x27;used&#x27; your runes, and will be benefiting from the new mastery system, and on top of that you get IP/BE back. > > But I guess people just are feeling left out because they have played the game for years and don&#x27;t have their participation trophies yet. This is a misconception about the necessity of runes. At the most basic level yes, you're right, runes are an in-game benefit. The issue is that runes are power. Runes equate to roughly 1k+ worth of stats at level one. Some champions, depending on the lane, match-up or otherwise, cannot function without runes. It's why Riot is giving a pass to every champion's stats when the preseason comes along. This means that, to play the game and not be at an inhereant disadvantage, you had to pay to get runes or else risk being greatly impeded. There's a word for this: Pay-2-Win. Paying to have an advantage over players and to get an edge over someone else. Sure, it's not as egregious as something like Maplestory or Gunz: The Duel but it's still paying to get an edge over someone else. Because of this, you were required to buy runes to make sure you could play competitive with others and not jump into a game with an instant disadvantage. Runes were also not cheap: Often, you had to make a choice between a new runepage or a new champion. 3 Quints or that new champ in the window. You _also_ seem to misunderstand that you can refund runes without going for a 1:1 exchange. In Riot's test survey, the rune refund was around 40% of what you bought it for: A T3 rune could cost up to 410 IP. Giving 100 back for a rune equates to roughly a 25% return rate. A Quint could cost up to 2050 IP. Giving 300 back for a rune equates to roughly a 15% return rate. Even if Riot bumped it to 30 or even 40%, you're at least getting more back than the current exchange rate. I don't and never did expect a 100% return rate, I'd have absurd amounts of IP. All that said, the point is that Riot can do better than what they are doing for a system that had a tendency to be a rough spot for players. Riot wants to be the most player focused company in the world, I'm merely suggesting that the player-focus should extend to these practices as well.
: Ah hell... I guess I'll jump in here because I'm a little confused by the post and I want to understand y'all's perspective better. One thing I'd like to understand is that it seems like this is a reaction to multiple changes: runes becoming free, the new leveling system, and a more general feeling that maybe Riot just doesn't show that we care enough about veteran players. You mentioned in the headline something about "30 chests," but we said we aren't going to do that because the new chests system is just a replacement for the IP you get after games now—you've already gotten the IP for all the games you've ever played, so there's no reward that veterans are missing out on as a direct result of the leveling system change. Does that make sense? You're also pitching this idea as being "in lieu" of the rune rewards we're doing, but I think that doing this idea instead of the rune rewards would be unfair to people who've spent the most on runes. The point of the runes rewards we're giving out isn't to "reward veterans" in a general sense; the point is to take care of people who spent IP on runes and give them a little back as a way of saying "thank you" for using a system that we're now changing. It's not even meant as a refund, because remember, we're just replacing the current system with a new and better one. Those things aside, **it seems to me that what you're really saying with this post is that Riot should do more to show that we care about veteran players. **If that's really what you're trying to get at, I'm with you. I'm not sure I agree that we should just haphazardly hand out skins to accounts just because they've played a game a couple of times per season (after all, that was never the deal when you made your account—you play games for fun and because you want to, not because we promised to give you skins for free). But I'm interested in hearing more about what y'all think we could do to better recognize veterans generally. Does it have to be just random piles of rewards, or is there some better ways we can give veterans to express their longstanding status? Sorry for the long post. I'm just genuinely interested in digging into some of these nuances with you guys.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2017-09-04T22:15:32.499+0000) > > Ah hell... I guess I&#x27;ll jump in here because I&#x27;m a little confused by the post and I want to understand y&#x27;all&#x27;s perspective better. Hey Cact. Gonna respond to you paragraph by paragraph so it makes my thoughts more clear. > One thing I&#x27;d like to understand is that it seems like this is a reaction to multiple changes: runes becoming free, the new leveling system, and a more general feeling that maybe Riot just doesn&#x27;t show that we care enough about veteran players. You mentioned in the headline something about &quot;30 chests,&quot; but we said we aren&#x27;t going to do that because the new chests system is just a replacement for the IP you get after games now—you&#x27;ve already gotten the IP for all the games you&#x27;ve ever played, so there&#x27;s no reward that veterans are missing out on as a direct result of the leveling system change. Does that make sense? This is partially in response to Ghostcrawler's comment about why they're not giving chests away: Partially because you basically got the 1-30 chests but also because there's not something intrinsically rewarding about having a giant plate of chests dumped in front of you. It's fine, I get it. I remember when I opened HotS after they changed the leveling and I just asked myself when the fucking nightmare would end after opening like 50 boxes. In addition, while I might be reading this wrong, some chests from 1-30 are skewed towards champs _but have the potential to drop skins or other cosmetics_. Things we could never get with IP. Again, I might be misreading this. > You&#x27;re also pitching this idea as being &quot;in lieu&quot; of the rune rewards we&#x27;re doing, but I think that doing this idea instead of the rune rewards would be unfair to people who&#x27;ve spent the most on runes. The point of the runes rewards we&#x27;re giving out isn&#x27;t to &quot;reward veterans&quot; in a general sense; the point is to take care of people who spent IP on runes and give them a little back as a way of saying &quot;thank you&quot; for using a system that we&#x27;re now changing. It&#x27;s not even meant as a refund, because remember, we&#x27;re just replacing the current system with a new and better one. I understand where you're coming from with this but it does not feel like a "little back". While I'm fine with it and I don't really care too much about it, many players feel like they got spit in the face. ~~100/300 isn't even 10% of most rune costs and people feel like their investment was terribly wasted.~~(EDIT: I have been pointed out that it's roughly 25% and 15% refund, respectively. Still not very high.) They feel like things they could have spent towards fun and enjoyment, such as unlocking a new champ, was instead spent to make sure they wouldn't have a miserable time. It might sound like a tiny detail but spending to have fun vs. spending so you can have fun is a massive variance when you think about it. > Those things aside, **it seems to me that what you&#x27;re really saying with this post is that Riot should do more to show that we care about veteran players. **If that&#x27;s really what you&#x27;re trying to get at, I&#x27;m with you. I&#x27;m not sure I agree that we should just haphazardly hand out skins to accounts just because they&#x27;ve played a game a couple of times per season (after all, that was never the deal when you made your account—you play games for fun and because you want to, not because we promised to give you skins for free). But I&#x27;m interested in hearing more about what y&#x27;all think we could do to better recognize veterans generally. Does it have to be just random piles of rewards, or is there some better ways we can give veterans to express their longstanding status? Yes and no. Part of the reason why I also said that even recent players should get a reward is because this shouldn't be exclusive. The player base shouldn't be divided against the the guy who picked up league two weeks ago vs. the guy who had a beta code from the DOTA All-star forum. In my suggestion, I wanted to make sure EVERYONE got a reward. Hence why vets get a bonus. Now, here is where we disagree: You misunderstand that I want players to be rewarded just for playing the game. League isn't a game you just play, it's a game that people invest time, money and more into. And you know, Riot doesn't always hit the mark. Some people dislike or outright hate certain changes or seasons. Sometimes a champ you loved gets reworked to be healthier. This isn't just rewarding players for playing; This is rewarding players who stuck with Riot and League regardless. Players who were there for, as I said in the OP, highs, lows and sideways. A reward for continued support. I didn't play league because I thought one day, seven-plus years later, I would get free cosmetics and have power over a little subsection of the boards, I played because I enjoyed it. It'd just be nice for Riot to acknowledge my (and many others) contributions to league, even if all we did was tell a friend about how much fun we had playing it. And I'll concede: Yes, I'd _love_ to have something to express my long-standing status as a vet. I'd gladly throw this entire suggestion away. That said... * I don't think Riot should alienate new players entirely from a reward, even if it's a far less interesting skin. * I don't think it should be up ENTIRELY to Riot to decide what the reward is. A good example is the Thunderdome project of this year with Riot working with players to create something amazing. * I sadly worry that all of this might merely be talk to tide us over until it's nice and under the rug. Riot has been promising veteran acknolwedgement for years now. The reason so many are upset is that this is was a prime, perfect time to roll out rewards for veterans with what will essentally be the biggest change league has ever got. Instead, many are left disappointed. > Sorry for the long post. I&#x27;m just genuinely interested in digging into some of these nuances with you guys. You've got nothing to be sorry for. Honestly, I'm glad you stopped by to talk because discussions like this are how things improve, rather than trying to wish death on all of Riot and how ~~DOTA2~~ ~~HotS~~ ~~Overwatch~~ PUBG is so much better and has caring devs who listen to us.
Breaku (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=00110000,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:31:15.260+0000) > > It&#x27;s not about leveling rewards, it&#x27;s about investment from playing League time-wise. Not level-wise. lol so why do you think they should just hand out random rewards?
> [{quoted}](name=Breaku,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=001100000000,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:44:50.512+0000) > > lol so why do you think they should just hand out random rewards? ...There's nothing random about these rewards? * They're rewards for pre-existing accounts as a "thank you for sticking with us" that grow depending on how long you stuck with them. * Skin shard, champ shard, BE and a gemstone mean there's ALWAYS something you could want. * In the spirit of equality, everyone at least gets a box for making an account. Preseason 8 should be a going away party for IP as well as celebrating how far we and League have come. Instead, the current rewards don't really give strength to old players, merely level the playing field a little.
Segius (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:23:55.871+0000) > > Vets have so much because we spent time, money and energy on this game. I&#x27;m not a Tier 1 vet (I didn&#x27;t play in beta) but I joined around 2010 so I&#x27;m plenty old. We spend money on the game. We put up with the rune/IP stuff. We were around for all of Riot&#x27;s ups, downs and sideways. > > Many players feel that Riot isn&#x27;t fairly compensating vets. Vets get very ltitle return investment based on what they spent and, depending on the person, that could make a huge difference. A company should reward loyalty and sticking with them for nearly a decade, not give them a meh reward for such a long time of play. > > Also- 8 Gemstones being worth 100 is artifical rarity. Riot could easily tweak the drop rates. Oh, wait, they are. Besides, $100 comparative to 8 years of playtime averages out to about $12.50 a year. I think Riot can afford 12.50 a year, especially if you were giving them business for 8. Yes but 12.50 for Millions of players, granted not all played for a whole 7 seasons its still losing tons of money
> [{quoted}](name=Segius,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:36:44.867+0000) > > Yes but 12.50 for Millions of players, granted not all played for a whole 7 seasons its still losing tons of money And in that argument comes the brilliance of the smurf account! You had to have played a certain amount of games a season. Which means you must have been active on all smurf accounts, so let's cut some rewards from them. Bots can be dealt with as well. Most players came in around Season 3-4 these days so seeing a vet with a huge bonus is a mark of honor. etc. But the biggest kicker is that Riot ISN'T losing money on this as a whole. The only thing they're conceivably losing money on is the Gemstones...which are inherently a gamble-based system that rewards people who throw their life savings at Riot for a whiff of that sweet annie/darius/sivir skin. These types of systems _should_ lose money. On top of that, $100 (which is the players who played 8 seasons) multiplied by 100 million players (The amount Riot argues that they have) would be about 10 billion...which isn't too far off to the total Riot made. Finally, That $100 value can easily go down if Gemstone rarity drops. It's only so expensive now because the droprates are fucky. Either way, Riot can do better at compensating players. They lose next-to-nothing with this system, unless that player is a vet in which case they've probably already made 100+ dollars off of said player in the span of 4+ years.
Breaku (NA)
: but the chests for 1-30 is just IP though
> [{quoted}](name=Breaku,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:22:59.641+0000) > > but the chests for 1-30 is just IP though It's not about leveling rewards, it's about investment from playing League time-wise. Not level-wise.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:08:46.714+0000) > > ...How is that a bit much? > > Vets get (at most) 9 epic skin shards, 9 gemstones, 9 champ shards and a boatload of BE. > > You know how many skin shards you can REALISTICALLY upgrade with what I listed? About 2-3. Or random reroll into 3 perma-skins which is an RNG gamble. Champ shards range from nice-to-useless. The gemstones are the big draw but considering the premium on gemstone, it&#x27;s still heavily based on Riot&#x27;s own RNG manipulator. > > At the end of the day, this rewards those who have played since beta the most...as you kind of should. Then again, Riot has a problem with helping vets. (See: Riot giving away a free skin to people who stopped playing before they gave a free skin to those who played for a long time.) 9 gemstones is one away from a rare skin. Most people have never gotten 10 gemstones without paying money, and you want to just give them away for free? And do people that started in beta even need 9 champ shards? I know I don't.
> [{quoted}](name=Hellioning,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-09-04T21:11:01.883+0000) > > 9 gemstones is one away from a rare skin. Most people have never gotten 10 gemstones without paying money, and you want to just give them away for free? > > And do people that started in beta even need 9 champ shards? I know I don&#x27;t. ...Sure? Why not? What an actual great way of rewarding vets? "Hey guys, thanks for your support. Here are a ton of gemstones so you're close to unlocking a skin of your choosing. Thanks for spending time, money and patience on us!" And again, the champ shards vary in value. For some people, they'll be great. For others who have all the champs (Myself included), it's just a nice bonus.
: http://www.troll.me/images/pissed-off-obama/riot-hire-this-man.jpg
> [{quoted}](name=A Swarm of Koala,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-04T18:59:13.124+0000) > > http://www.troll.me/images/pissed-off-obama/riot-hire-this-man.jpg :)
Flaffi (EUW)
: I mean it sounds nice, but multiplied by each season played is a bit much. I'd say it's more reasonable to do it for every 2 seasons played, rounding up (so 5 seasons would count as 6 played, giving 3 vet chests). This way it's still noticable but not over the top and the very season 1 vets get all 4 chests. An alternative I could see is that you receive 3 vet chests if you started in season 1, 2 vet chests if you started in season 4 and 1 vet chest if you started in season 6, when you open the vet chest you get a choice of 3 epic skins shards from which you are able to pick out the one you'd like to receive. The same goes for the champion shard, which obviously should be an active champion shard, so you can add it to the collection for the newer players or disenchant it for those who own all champions. Oh, alongside the gemstone of course.
> [{quoted}](name=Flaffi,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-09-04T20:22:21.327+0000) > > I mean it sounds nice, but multiplied by each season played is a bit much. I&#x27;d say it&#x27;s more reasonable to do it for every 2 seasons played, rounding up (so 5 seasons would count as 6 played, giving 3 vet chests). This way it&#x27;s still noticable but not over the top and the very season 1 vets get all 4 chests. > > An alternative I could see is that you receive 3 vet chests if you started in season 1, 2 vet chests if you started in season 4 and 1 vet chest if you started in season 6, when you open the vet chest you get a choice of 3 epic skins shards from which you are able to pick out the one you&#x27;d like to receive. The same goes for the champion shard, which obviously should be an active champion shard, so you can add it to the collection for the newer players or disenchant it for those who own all champions. Oh, alongside the gemstone of course. ...How is that a bit much? Vets get (at most) 9 epic skin shards, 9 gemstones, 9 champ shards and a boatload of BE. You know how many skin shards you can REALISTICALLY upgrade with what I listed? About 2-3. Or random reroll into 3 perma-skins which is an RNG gamble. Champ shards range from nice-to-useless. The gemstones are the big draw but considering the premium on gemstone, it's still heavily based on Riot's own RNG manipulator. At the end of the day, this rewards those who have played since beta the most...as you kind of should. Then again, Riot has a problem with helping vets. (See: Riot giving away a free skin to people who stopped playing before they gave a free skin to those who played for a long time.)
Malza (NA)
: Change to pre-season 1 instead of beta, the game was fully released without a ranked mode for a long time.
> [{quoted}](name=Malza,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=000a,timestamp=2017-09-04T20:12:37.456+0000) > > Change to pre-season 1 instead of beta, the game was fully released without a ranked mode for a long time. Better idea, yeah.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chibi Templar,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PElcnLw4,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:40:55.212+0000) > > Heroes has shown that even though a lot of characters are relatively unknown to a lot of the playerbase, they&#x27;re still popular. Biggest example i can think of is Reinhardt. Sure hes an absurdly strong unit and that added to his popularity, but that still made him known to the fans who never got to play the Genealogy/Tharcia games, and making them interested in them. > > I don&#x27;t understand why they just wanna focus on Awakening and Fates. Yeah, awakening saved the series, but they&#x27;re throwing away opportunities to really introduce their old characters better. i just want to hectorcopter like 50 dudes with armads
> [{quoted}](name=Latitoast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PElcnLw4,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:42:50.595+0000) > > i just want to hectorcopter like 50 dudes with armads There's always this. http://leaguecraft.com/skins/34083-hector-fire-emblem.xhtml
: > [{quoted}](name=Latitoast,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PElcnLw4,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-09-04T16:05:14.143+0000) > > &quot;how did the girl with boobs bigger than her head beat out the girl who comes from a game that a majority of the playerbase still probably hasn&#x27;t played yet?&quot; The Blazing Blade, the game Lyn is from, was released in the US for the GBA under the title "Fire Emblem" in 2003. That was 14 years ago, so anyone who is around 24ish-35ish would have been around to play it on it's release. It's not like it wasn't released outside of Japan. FE: Awakening and FE: Fates just happened to be the 2 (3) titles that actually gave Fire Emblem momentum in the US.
> [{quoted}](name=Oleandervine,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PElcnLw4,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:46:04.839+0000) > > The Blazing Blade, the game Lyn is from, was released in the US for the GBA under the title &quot;Fire Emblem&quot; in 2003. That was 14 years ago, so anyone who is around 24ish-35ish would have been around to play it on it&#x27;s release. It&#x27;s not like it wasn&#x27;t released outside of Japan. FE: Awakening and FE: Fates just happened to be the 2 (3) titles that actually gave Fire Emblem momentum in the US. It was also the first major FE game the US got that had popularity, although how widespeard you think it is can vary.
: Do you know how much of us Vets lost our first account because we made it when we were 10 and we can't remember the password? I've only had this account since like season 2/3. Maybe season 1? My lost account is getting more rewards than me ):<<<
> [{quoted}](name= ŁøveMÿADC,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:58:02.552+0000) > > Do you know how much of us Vets lost our first account because we made it when we were 10 and we can&#x27;t remember the password? I&#x27;ve only had this account since like season 2/3. Maybe season 1? My lost account is getting more rewards than me ):&lt;&lt;&lt; That sucks but my dude, that's a personal problem.
MysterQ (NA)
: Was with you until you decided to give more for length of play. I already feel like vets have so much, they don't need to keep begging for more. And 1x gemstone seems fair enough. But 8gemstones is almost if not more than $100.
> [{quoted}](name=MysterQ,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-04T19:12:45.577+0000) > > Was with you until you decided to give more for length of play. I already feel like vets have so much, they don&#x27;t need to keep begging for more. > > And 1x gemstone seems fair enough. But 8gemstones is almost if not more than $100. Vets have so much because we spent time, money and energy on this game. I'm not a Tier 1 vet (I didn't play in beta) but I joined around 2010 so I'm plenty old. We spend money on the game. We put up with the rune/IP stuff. We were around for all of Riot's ups, downs and sideways. Many players feel that Riot isn't fairly compensating vets. Vets get very ltitle return investment based on what they spent and, depending on the person, that could make a huge difference. A company should reward loyalty and sticking with them for nearly a decade, not give them a meh reward for such a long time of play. Also- 8 Gemstones being worth 100 is artifical rarity. Riot could easily tweak the drop rates. Oh, wait, they are. Besides, $100 comparative to 8 years of playtime averages out to about $12.50 a year. I think Riot can afford 12.50 a year, especially if you were giving them business for 8.
  Rioter Comments
: Im speechless
Ok but I want to point something out. Ike is so fucking popular he made top 5 on the male character list _fucking TWICE_. -Elise- gets into Fire Emblem Warriors before Ike does. Fucking Ike. I don't know if his popularity is just in NA/the West but come the fuck on where is he. (I'd like Hector too but I get that Hector might not be S-tier)
: Faker has more skins than Yorick
Baron got a new skin before Yorick.
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CaptainMårvelous

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