: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ulkL19kr,comment-id=008600000000,timestamp=2018-01-18T17:00:20.822+0000) > > I'm talking to Keyru to get you fired right this moment i cant tell if this is banter, or if this thread is seriously breaking some rules. can anyone actually just script the boards like that, or did he pull some special admin wodoo? (dont know what kind of rights heralds have on these boards). because im looking into the code right now and at least this one doesnt seem difficult.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ulkL19kr,comment-id=0086000000000000,timestamp=2018-01-18T17:04:42.071+0000) > > i cant tell if this is banter, or if this thread is seriously breaking some rules. > > can anyone actually just script the boards like that, or did he pull some special admin wodoo? (dont know what kind of rights heralds have on these boards). because im looking into the code right now and at least this one doesnt seem difficult. Just bantz bro. If there was an actual issue I don't think anyone would want it spilling out onto the forums, lol.
Wuks (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ulkL19kr,comment-id=0086,timestamp=2018-01-18T05:28:29.576+0000) > > I literally just clicked this thread what in the fuck is this > > Delete this right now wuks Just my daily praise CaptainMarvelous thread {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
> [{quoted}](name=Wuks,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ulkL19kr,comment-id=00860000,timestamp=2018-01-18T05:49:00.360+0000) > > Just my daily praise CaptainMarvelous thread > > {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} I'm talking to Keyru to get you fired right this moment
Wuks (NA)
: For YOUR eyes only owo
I literally just clicked this thread what in the fuck is this Delete this right now wuks
: Why do you think anyone would treat scarra's words with positivity he was just calling people bad. That's not an experiment that's just baiting people. Hell, his words hold less value since 10 seconds later qtp stated how he understands how frustrating yasuo is to play against which is what people hate about yasuo.
It was less about positivity and more about how the boards would react. And to their credit, not every comment was flaming. Some were earnest and polite critiques of what he said. The issue is that a chunk of them were vitriolic. Now, I'm not saying scarra was in the right but it is an exercise in seeing how one responds to harsh criticism.
: You have some special status here so I assume you're regular here. How do you stay sane when reading the Boards lol? The level of angry immaturity is driving me nuts and I've only started coming here like a week ago.
Because most of those people aren't bad people. Nobody here is setting out to be a jerk (Well some people might). Most people are honestly, earnestly just passionate about League. They love the game, they devote time and effort to it, they spend money on it. It's hard to sit back and watch something you love change in a way you disapprove of. We're not monks, we don't have to forgo our passion, but we do need to be careful and keep it in check.
: "The boards are a small minority of the community who just want to complain."
So the thing about boards (and by extent reddit) is that it's not just the small community but a large amount of other issues within the boards and reddit. So, let's just shelf the "small community" thing. * Little room for dissenting opinion. One of the things you bring up is that "Well the whole boards is in agreement", which isn't always true. Often there are a variety of opinions, feelings and facts on the subject despite those who may purport them as the will of god. However, much like reddit, boards is not good at dissenting opinions. Often, what floats to the top is stuff that is agreed to be the issue. Likewise, those who disagree with those opinions, however valid or invalid, are silenced due to negative ideas dropping or being hidden. * Topical Bias. A common criticism I see boards complain about is the overfilled status of esports on the reddit. Which is fair, often esport posts float to the top. However, boards can be guilty of a similar thing. Gameplay posts often float to the top and, of them, they're all often "What's wrong with Riot/League". Again, however valid these criticisms are? That doesn't mean it reflects the will of everyone. More importantly, regardless of how many problems league has? There is fatigue that becomes associated with people who peer on the boards and see yesterday's round of angry post replaced with a similar-but-slightly-different round of anger posting. * Failure of critical expression. "You're just a Riot drone" "Good to see the paid rioters out in full force today" "Guess they're paying you overtime to defend them today huh?" All of these are things I've seen levied at people or spoken to people who go against the grain. It's also not uncommon to see the same criticisms spoken out to the opposition. You're just a hater. You couldn't do better. You're complaining about nothing. Etc. Rather than find commonality or understanding viewpoints, there's a feeling that you have to disagree with the person because they're "the enemy". It's poison for critical discussion. Reddit is guilty of this as well but Reddit doesn't act high or mighty about it, the most you'd find is a sarcastic "We did it reddit". * Outsiders Unwelcome. As an experiment, I decided to see how the boards reacted to Scarra's comment on Reddit/Boards balancing. As you'd expect? The response was absurdly negative. Flaming Scarra's words, personal attacks, etc. I tweeted it to Scarra and his first thoughts were "oh cool, I'm being flamed". The same happens with Riot and Rioters who talk on the boards. They feel attacked. They can't be a part of the community because you should only address serious, front-page matters. This makes the boards unwelcome for anyone who isn't a player and goes with the flow. As such, it makes it hard for people to interact if the first thing levied at them is "So when are you losing your job?" As you said, it's not a fair criticism to just focus on the small community itself. It is, however, fair to point out that boards is a small, inclusive, very tightly-knit community with a small majority of gameplay-focused players drowning out the minority of others. Due to this feeling, it can be hard for people to engage the community and makes people question/feel unwelcome even if they want to jump in and understand.
: the claim that garen cant be buffed for high ranks without making him op in low ranks is a lie
While your post is certainly true, I think the better question is "Would these solve Garen's problems?" or "Will these make Garen more viable in high ELO?". The point people try to make with Garen buffs is that adjusting his raw strength rather than mechanical depth would cause him to be overblown. While everything you said is a buff, I don't think it'd outright make Garen strong to the degree that people are going "Damn Garen lookin' extra spicy today". Rather, I think these buffs give higher level players more mechanical depth to squeeze a bit more power out of Garen. To me, it feels/sounds like the "+5 AD/-3 AD" meme. Yes, it's buffing/nerfing a champ in a subtle but effective way for the highest tier of play. Yes, it's a change made to a champion that doesn't affect ELO. It isn't however, such an impactful change that it solves the problems the champion currently has and is often a placebo more than anything. The things Garen needs probably can't be solved or treated in a way that's as simple as "Buff X" or "Rework Y". Rather, I think it's a combination of things that need to be analyzed. These changes could bring Garen up from a 49.55 to a 49.77 but would they be impactful enough to net him the ultimate goal of being a viable, competitive pick on every tier of play?
: This is viewed as a bad thing? This concept was taken from CS:GO and it only adds to the game, I don't see how it's negative?
Do you mean how the idea of silhouette dying is a bad thing? There's a really good video on it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S1W8BZPf-N8 Basically, a unique and recognizable character design got quickly drowned out by haphazardly adding cosmetic that altered silhouettes, weapons and added gross particles that made the character almost unrecognizable to what they once were.
: You edit makes me sad, mostly because it's true. I really want Riot to explore lore related events, maps, modes, items..
As cool as it would be, a lot of lore events and situations would be hell to balance in a competitive PvP game like League. Part of the reason for the retcon and ludonarrative dissonance is due to League and champions being forced to remain static to justify them still being in the game and never changing beyond more confrontation. It all has a very comic book feeling to it where any progress or storyline has to reset to zero before the end because progression is the devil. That said, I'd be down for summoner's rift or howling abyss reskins ala Butcher's Bridge. Imagine a Piltover map taking place on the bridges between Zaun and Piltover. A targon mountain pass for howling abyss. A Noxian arena to replace twisted treeline, etc.
: League 2 or we Riot :^) I hope we get void corruption skins and a theme about champs getting the Malzahar type possession.
Don't worry, you'll get League of legends: Shippuden eventually.
: I'm hyped for it. I hope it causes a 2nd rune war and we finally get League of Legends 2 with older Annie and War Veteran Garen.
I don't think we're gonna get a league of legends 2 but I'm almost certain that once Riot finishes the last of the retcons (Only like a handful remain), we're going to get our first major storyline with the void invading runeterra and the first champion released tied so heavily to an event since...Skarner, I guess? Camille/Xayah/Rakan technically count because they matched with lore rewrites but I mean more so a giant patch of lore/events in Runeterra.
: Lorewise she's talking about the Void invasion. Gamewise she might be joking that the map changes since we destroy structures, dragons, barons, and monsters.
^ Aurelion Sol has basically called all of Targon's aspects to Runeterra to deal with this thing known as "the entity". Something even Sol is afraid of. It also explains the resurgence of magic with the vastaya, the revival of the darkin and the arrival of Bard, the celestial entity of balance; The barriers between worlds are weakening and Runeterra is going to be the epicenter of a cataclysmic event. EDIT: Granted, this is lore. Gameplaywise I don't think it means anything.
Natake (NA)
: I have to give Riot genuine props.
If you want to see a game where this was a core philosophy but fell apart, look at TF2. A game where art style was important to recognizing classes as well as what weapons they had which is now a smorgusboard of insanity due to the varied styles, weapons and more that all occupy the same game.
: What is your main problem with the game right now? (Poll)
Not on the list: The fact that Riot still can't address why ADCs are picked in every meta, that being safe and ranged objective control. If Riot could find a way for melee DPS/carries to buy an item or take a rune that let them do consistent damage safely to turrets or objectives, it could go a long way to making them a possible pick for bot lane or elsewhere. Riot needs to do better in addressing the power between melee and ranged. Once they can level out the power gap, it'll go a long way to improving the relationship between the two. And this isn't just physical damage either, as ranged advantage persists in most lanes/areas.
Abibyama (EUW)
: Scarra should pay a visit to the boards
Well he went and looked. I don't think he was fond of what he saw though. :(
: League of Legends is the way scarra and streamers make money. Do you really think that they will criticise the game ? if the game falls they won't earn money anymore... Even Pants are Dragon said once on twitch that games are way faster now but didn't give his thoughts about it.
Absolutely. Players criticize and talk about the game all the time. Take LS for example, a Korean analyst and shoutcaster. His patch rundowns are filled with biting remarks to Riot's balance team. Hell, his last patch rundown had a several minute rant about how Riot's nerf to Zoe was pathetic and accomplished absolutely nothing for the upcoming season.
: Reddit doesn't talk balance at all. When's the last time there was an actual balance discussion thread on the front page? They have too much censorship against them. Besides, he's just making the video to run on the 'low elo idiots' circlejerk and claim superiority. Doesn't actually consider the validity of claims and instead says the premises is biased. Being biased doesn't invalidate an opinion.
I don't think Reddit has outright balance discussions in the way boards goes "XYZ or ABC needs a nerf" but, rather, discussing in stuff like PBE updates or major game posts. I think the other thing that Reddit does is rather than have giant, broad, generalized comments about the game state like you see on boards? They focus more on a singular pain point/problem they feel is in the game. Take [this post](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7qatzq/i_wish_there_were_more_ap_items_in_the_game/?st=jcfp5csy&sh=31fd398d) for example. If this was a boards thread, discussions about AP itemization would also spill over into comparing itemizations with other classes, what AP items are good/bad currently, etc. Reddit just sort of focuses on one key point and builds on that where as every boards post goes into the balance ecosystem. Again, just my thought. I don't really go on reddit.
: So stats and the like don't matter? Just Scarra's seemingly random personal claim of something being op or not? Based on what?
I'm actually not sure what Scarra's thought process is here, which is why I wanted to see how boards reacted to it. What I -think- he's trying to say (and I can't be sure because I ain't Scarra) is that the knee-jerk reaction to losing against something is "God damn this is OP, it should be nerfed" rather than learning to play against it. Which, in turn, fosters this idea that these champions need to be nerfed, deleted or otherwise to fix it. It's also worth noting that Scarra plays the game at a higher level, which could mean that he's focusing too much on the top-tier of balance rather than what feels good for all.
Elohaven (NA)
: Can we just all give a moment to appreciate Riot's video: The Climb?
As cool as it is, I don't believe this is Riot but rather an outsourced animation company they hire to create cinematics. For example: "A New Dawn" was the work of [Blur Stiudios](http://www.blur.com/work/).
Rioter Comments
: "Technically speaking, I'm not on the champ design team. I'm accountable for League design holistically. In practice, it's is not possible for me to be present for every discussion, or even every design meeting, so I'm certainly not directing individual teams to put CDR on every item. You are better off talking to designers or other team-members who are making the champion updates or changing the corresponding items. " that's exactly why i don't understand the boards how is ghostcrawler responsible for everything? last time i checked: -fearless was the one behind the shitty jungle rework -xypherous was the one behind ap itemization clown fiesta -repertoir was the one behind the failure that is the tank rework i don't know a single change that was directed by gc and yet the boards blames him for everything
> [{quoted}](name=I am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=t4Ub2EZX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-01-14T15:17:36.300+0000) > > and yet the boards blames him for everything To be blunt, we had the same issue with Morello years ago. Or, as the forums named him, "Nerf Master Suck Town". One of the things about being a well known/lead designer is that you become the "face" of whatever the team is. You, by nature of existing, draw aggro. In terms of boards/discussions/etc, it also makes it easier for the players to relate and focus on a single person. When you give "the enemy", as many people on the boards might consider them, a face? It's easier for you to focus your criticisms and anger on them. You've made a lightning rod. Think of it like Star Wars: While the emperor didn't mean the empire was gone, it was easy to mark his death as the official "defeat" of the empire and the beginning of their downfall. It's human nature to want to isolate the cause. To find patient zero that they can blame for everything. At the end of the day, issues like balance and design are far more complex than one guy destroying the game with his own changes. It's just a combination of luck, history and personal preference as to who you feel is the dastardly head of the table.
: Nah this is exactly what I wanted, you are here to shed light on my confusion. > Map thread was discussing the world and piecing together information Riot has given us already about the universe. The art was supplementary. Fan art threads are not about discussing Riot-created stuff but the creation that the artist or writer made. Ahhh okay here we go, the gravy that I was looking for here. This distinction helps me comprehend the difference between fan-made content and fan-made concepts. Thanks anyway, the clarification is appreciated and I'll apply that understanding if I ever share more art of my own ____ Im still a bit disappointed, granted it's individualized to me personally because I don't appreciate the C&C community. Not that they're bad or didn't share any support for my Yago & Saito illustrations (FYI they were uploaded to C&C, it was only the Boram image that was to SA&S). But I got the feeling no one understood exactly who or why I was drawing those characters. C&C puts me in a less enthusiastic position because I realized that although I'm not so talented like most fan artists, my work isn't going to be any where near appreciated unless displayed in SA&S. Simply cause the characters I chose to draw from League aren't commonly known to the wider community, except by those who hang about in Story, Art & Sound.
That's unfortunate but I can understand why you feel that way. Have you ever considered using your illustrations as a "who's who" of unknown lore characters? I know a lot of people probably aren't aware of these lesser-known characters but you could always make it a point to illustrate them and go "Who is <x>"? Maybe make it a series. Plus, I think if you don't make your art the main focus, you could probably post it in SA&S considering you're discussing a relatively unknown character, not the art itself?
: So [this](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/iKjywJw8-sic-semper-tyrannis-boram-darkwill-the-antecedent-in-anticipation-for-swain-vgu) just slipped through the cracks did it? Not to mention the large number of fan-made maps that've been uploaded to SA&S, and more importantly been encouraged by moderators as acceptable for it [[Example](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/cfOmlZyt-my-vision-of-the-runaterra-map-some-concepts?comment=000000000000)]. So why is that given a free pass but when someone creates lore accurate fan art with the same justifications, even if it's of a human or non-human figure, is somehow deemed less tolerable? How? What is meant to be the key difference? Dont get me wrong that was a rhetorical question, hoping for moderator's to answer instead.
Sorry I'm mass responding to your comments. Just trying to make stuff cleared up: The reason that the map was acceptable but art/music/etc. isn't is due to the map being less about "Check out this cool league map I made" and more about the ongoing discussion of plotting out the world map of League. The OP was aiming to show a possible idea of what the canonical map could be and discussing why/his reasoning for placing it in those places. By contrast, lore-accurate fan art is still fan art. In addition, C&C threads generally advertise their art for people to talk about the art/music/etc. that they made. The map thread was _not_ aimed at having players look specifically at the map they made but rather showing the map they made and provoking discussion for people to share thoughts on what the canon map/world would look like. As a rule of thumb, think of it in the sense that your art thread in C&C is to promote your art and to share a cool thing you made. Conversely, the map thread is using the information Riot had given the author over time to construct a map. From there, they wanted to discuss how they came to these conclusions and compare/contrast with other users about how canonical his predictions were to the lore. I hope that makes sense to you. TL;DR: Map thread was discussing the world and piecing together information Riot has given us already about the universe. The art was _supplementary_. Fan art threads are not about discussing Riot-created stuff but the creation that the artist or writer made.
: > any artwork type content relating to the game that isn’t produced from Riot goes in Concepts & Creations. Well that's very upsetting to hear. Although I don't know if you read my other comment before about fan-made maps or checked the link where a Herald- someone whose apart of the group to maintain Board rules had officially accepted fan maps as appropriate SA&S content. And as far as majority of the community is aware they CAN share their maps to SA&S instead of or as well as C&C. But you suggest that nothing fan-made should appear anywhere else other than C&S. So either there should be a greater crack down on fan-made content appearing in SA&S, and make sure all the Moderators and Heralds equally understand the rule or it needs to be revisited and softened. Because at the moment that feels unfair and misleading, especially misleading that the rule is clearly only enforced occasionally. ____ Also I'm suspicious because you're comment sounds like a formal response but you lack the visual flair that indicates your profile is apart of the Moderator group. Even if I checked the list of mod volunteers, and you're not among them...
>Also I'm suspicious because you're comment sounds like a formal response but you lack the visual flair that indicates your profile is apart of the Moderator group. Even if I checked the list of mod volunteers, and you're not among them... Wolf is a mod-in-training. He's still learning the ropes. Don't worry too much, he's just incredibly excited to help out. We have a few of them on the team who are getting their feet wet with moderation but might not have the fancy colors or bells/whistles yet.
: Question/s about fan creation featured at Story, Art & Sound.
Wew, I missed this. So, lemme just get this out of the way: Generally, we -do- want to encourage people to post on C&C instead of SA&S with their content. Most of the time we delete stuff and encourage them to shuffle things over there. That said, mods and (by extent) archivists are humans too. We might miss a post that ends up blowing up on SAS or something might not be reported for incorrect board. That's where the lock comes into play: We don't exactly want to delete the thread because it has so many upvotes/posting/etc. At the same time, we do have to make a point that these sorts of things are in the wrong place. In general, while it might not be the answer you want to hear, the fact is that things do slip through the cracks and we make mistakes or people don't accurately report things. Now for some other questions you probably have: ##"WTF why not just move the thread!?" Trust me, if we could? We would. Tech isn't there yet and Riot is the one who holds control over the boards. All mods would like to just move threads but, simply put, we can't. ##"So I guess you're gonna lock my thread now?" Naw. The general rule-of-thumb I like to use is if it's not on the front page and it was up for hours, there's no real point in forcing action. Yes, it SHOULD be in C&C but I'm not going to come barging into your thread with a handful of views and scream at you. Just know for the future, if that's ok. ##"You didn't answer the main question though!" Right then. To me, I think the only time I'd view fan art on SAS as accept is if _the artist is now working at Riot and has done concepts for a skin or a VGU_. It's incredibly iffy and something that might vary on a moderator basis but, to me, it's discussing a Rioter's work. Take Riot Hylia for example: He's done incredible concepts for all sorts of champions and he now works at Riot. It's entirely possible he could translate the work he's done into a full-on skin or VGU. Other than that very rare, very specific circumstance? All fan art, writing and concepts should go to C&C regardless if you're drawing a piece of Lux shooting lasers at Cassiopeia or Scrumpo the Shuriman Shovelboy shoveling dirt in front of his terrible farmhouse.
Hibeki (NA)
: I wholeheartedly disagree and every statistic made can reinforce this. While I think some buffs are in order, every patch has been basically nothing but nerfs, and the nerfs that do come are so small they are irrelevant. Everything is doing too much damage. The video phreak made conveniently leaves out all the excess new damage from runes and items, You immediately die or smash them. There is no inbetween. Im a full tank and I can survive more than 3 seconds in a fight. Even in hots while this is mainly true, there are talents that forcibly make you tanky (Like 75% damage reduction for 4-5 seconds). This game has absolute no tankiness to it. Tanks are just big bodies who have CC and great base damage. They build defense not because it makes them tanky, but because it lets them get off more CC. You see where the problem is here? >They are building defensive stats >Not because they are defensive >Because it lets them get off more cc and damage than without them The dedicated tank role is completely dead.
This doesn't disprove the point though. All this is telling me is that the nerfs chosen aren't doing their job rather than MORE nerfs being needed. Also, despite saying "Statistics can prove this", you didn't link me anything of statistical relevance or not. No OP.gg, no win rates, no game length, nothing. You just tell me "yeah I don't live longer than three seconds" and trust me to trust you and that your experience is indicative of the rest of the game. And let's be clear: >Tanks are just big bodies who have CC and great base damage. They build defense not because it makes them tanky, but because it lets them get off more CC. This, since Season 1, has always been the case. Dedicated tanking ala an MMO where you and your side-tank take turns taunting off the boss doesn't exist in a MOBA. Regardless of how you actually feel about the tank role, please do not think this hasn't always been how things are. Let's take Nautilus for example. Nautilus was released in Season 2 as Riot's attempt for you to get all your CC in a single, jungle champion. He controlled fights with rotations of CC and some decent DPS. If anything, the tank role now is more akin to an actual tank in an MMO or what a bruiser should be: You either focus the tank and wittle them down or they chain CC you and lock you down. Tanks have always been measured on CC more than durability. Durability was just their goal so that they had more time to get off CC. That has how it has ALWAYS been, even in MOBAs that aren't league.
noukinn (NA)
: Why the game doesn't need more Buffs right now, Nerfs are what League needs (Polite Version)
I actually disagree, but it requires a bit more thought. See, Riot used to think exactly like you do now: http://www.nerfnow.com/img/737/1186.png This comic is over 5 years old. We're talking S1/S2 league here. Maybe S3? Hard to carbondate such an old comic. Anyways, part of the issue with doing flat nerfs to everything isn't that it fixes the problem. Rather, it just scales the problem back. Let's say you have a messy house and to deal with it you just burn down a room. Sure, you removed some of the mess but your house is still overall messy. You didn't vacuum the room and make a net positive change, you just lowered the overall raw number count. The mess is still a problem. As an additional note, you're denying a core philosophy of games: Buffs, overall, feel better to players than nerfs. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsC8io4w1sY If Riot went with your suggestion of having (a) patch(s) of nerfs, players wouldn't actually like this sort of thing. Oh, sure, you can argue the boards would be ecstatic that there's a giant nerf to everything that is perceived as OP but the perception would be that this is just a weakening patch. A patch with nothing added or a patch with no merit other than a marker/milestone of S+ being brought down to S while the C tier remains C tier. However, I want to touch on a major point in your argument: >THEN you can finally begin thinking about SMALL INCREASES OR SHIFTS IN STATS. This, to me, is a bigger problem than anything you listed. Part of the problem I see with Riot balance (good or bad) is that it's reliant so heavily on raw numbers and metrics. If a champion gets buff, CD is lowered or mana cost is reduced. If a champ is nerfed, it's raised. DPS numbers go up or down. IMO, this leads to more balance problems down the road. You're completely focusing champion worth on what fat numbers they bring to the table, not the mechanics or the things they do. There should be buffs but, instead of raw numerical changes, Riot should look into buffing (and maybe nerfing) things that are strong in a champion's kit but things that don't directly correlate to a raw numerical increase. For example: Brand recently got a buff to his passive that upped the number. This makes him deal more damage but, unless he can damage more, he's not actually better. He just got a bigger number. What if, instead of raising that number, we buffed Brand's passive a different way? For some examples: * His passive now procs on large/epic monsters (On the PBE now) * His radius on his passive is increased. * Brand's passive deals the same damage but lasts longer (IE: 2% HP over 5 seconds instead of 4) None of these directly buff brand's raw numbers. Instead, they buff his ability to get his passive off and empower one of the unique things about his kit. These are the types of buffs that I feel Riot should look at. That said, I can't blame you for wanting less buffs. The way Riot buffs has probably left a sour taste in your mouth and the notion of buffing might look more like a big ol' number boost than a way to help a champion do their job.
: Remember when Riot said "Diversity'
Decided to check [OP.gg](http://na.op.gg/champion/statistics) on the claim. It's based on Korea, arguably the best tier of play. Out of the top 10 top laners, as of writing, most are fairly low mobility or immobile characters. Only two of the top 10 I'd conside rmobile are Jayce and Kled. Out of the top 10 junglers, you have a bit more mobility. Still, the top five are Udyr, Eve, Shyvana, Warwick and Shaco. Again, arguable mobility. Out of the top 10 midlaners, a large majority have little to no mobility skill. Hell, out of the top ten, only Katarina has instant blink/dash mobility. Out of the top 10 ADCs, you do have some mobility. About half of them in fact. Out of the top 10 supports, it's another 50/50 split. Some are mobile (Braum, Maokai, Shen) while some are not so mobile (Janna, Bard, Sion) So let's break this down what this means to your argument and possible counterarguments... * "Win rates don't count" A fair assessment. That said, your claim is that you can only pick mobile champions. This is incorrect, as Korean players have no trouble picking immobile champions. * "OP.gg mainly looks at Plat+ games" This would mean that for lower-tier players, mobility is a problem but for higher tier champions, it is not. * "It's Korea" Another fair assessment. However, Korea is also widely regarded as the best region with the best players. You could, theoretically, argue that the best players in the world seem to not have trouble with mobile champions. * "I disagree with what you consider a mobile champion" You can if you wish. The fact is that there are many forms of mobility, however, and the one that people most often refer to would be champions with a heavy amount/reliance on a blink, dash, or flash that's on a short CD and can go in any direction. Most of the champions on the top 10s lack this. I don't think anyone would agree that Rammus, who has an MS boost, is as mobile as a champion like Lee Sin or Kha'zix though. * The argument is false. Your argument is wrong is also an option. * There is another factor at play. You'd be astute in seeing that many of the champions who are in the top percentile are champions who have strong keystone use. Illaoi and Gangplank, for example, take spots 1 and 2 on the best top-lane champion tier. This has _nothing_ to do with mobility but rather that they're the ones who can make the most use of the keystone. If you want to argue the state of the game, that's fine. Please don't put the blame on a factor that has no bearing to the current state of the game however. This is how we get patches and changes that don't solve the problem but rather set the balance dial back and cause further issues.
: I just realized we could make a comment chain rainbow
Naphal (EUW)
: [skin-concept] Aurelionclass Soldestroyer
This is without a doubt the stupidest, most inane concept I've ever seen. I want 12 more of these on my desk by next monday you god you.
Wuks (NA)
: X < -5
: @The Wolf King people been complaining about balance team since s4, everyone is getting pissed off
Sure, I can explain it for you! Generally, with gameplay posts, we try to aim for discussion or conversation based stuff. Things that will add to it and get people talking, whether they're upset or not. Two lines generally isn't something that has effort or time put into it, which is reason number one. Following this, there's also a modicum of respect you have to afford everyone. Rioters are not exempt from this, mind you, so you can't just mindlessly slag on them. Things like, I don't know, "Fire these assholes". That'd be reason number two. Those two reasons are pretty big key points as to why your post was deleted. It had nothing to do with frustration at the state of the game or some personal vendetta anyone on the mod team has. It's when you do things like call the balance team assholes, ask for their phone numbers or otherwise that causes us some issues.
: They weren't bad though. Chalice was an item that could be bought to immediately solve a champ's mana problems. Nasus could build it for lane sustain, Anivia could build it bc of her ridiculous mana costs, and etc. It wasn't completely unheard of for people to buy chalice to sell it later, but it was looked down upon by the community because many saw it as a waste. Haunting Guise was a powerful item - it had very good winrate % stats, but since it didn't have an end game path for a long time, nobody built it.
Again, it relates back to the problem I described above though: They were decent/passable at best, They didn't have anything in the way of a comeback mechanism built in and they sure as hell didn't have crazy bonuses to justify them being purchased. They were decent, yes, but decent doesn't cut it if you don't have an upgrade path. Conversely, what I'm proposing is to have crazy powerful mid-tier items that fall off. Imagine an item that silences an enemy but has little-to-nothing in the way of stats. Yeah, it sounds incredible, but without a late game build path you'll find it hard to justify a short silence stick comparative to something absurd like a deathcap. Chalice/Guise were just decent stats. Decent stats don't cut it for a mid-tier item. You need to blow people away with it to justify getting it, even if the item itself is passable-to-good compared to similar items. Extra Example: Sheen would still be a good item even if it didn't build into anything. That doesn't mean people would still buy sheen if it didn't have build paths anymore.
Revali (NA)
: The problem with midtier items is sometimes they're so powerful that theres no need to even complete the said item. Granted this is an extreme case, I think bramble vest is very good example as to why mid tier items cant be to powerful.
This isn't true and doesn't hit on why Bramblevest was powerful. Had Bramble been just a singular item with zero upgrades, it'd be an iffy item. A lot of armor, a lot of reflect damage _but_ you pay for it by having an item that won't upgrade. Bramble, however, upgraded into Thornmail and was a great early pick-up that could transition into a decent end-game item. There was no drawback to buying bramble, sitting on it for 40+ minutes, then turning it into an end-game item after you won the lane. Hence why I pointed out that mid-game items should be a backfoot thing. Something you buy to compete/get through a bad lane phase but not something that will transition into a numerical advantage.
: i see i understand now why {{item:1055}}{{item:1056}} {{item:1054}} aren't built at all the problem with old chalice or even old haunting guise is that they weren't powerful enough to be bought without upgrades
What Rubick said. The problem with Chalice/Haunting guise is that these were mid-tier items that were flat stats and one passive. It has nothing to do with them being mid-tier items but the items themselves being bad. And, as it turns out, once they had an upgrade path they were bought all the time because they weren't bad. A mid-tier item would have to be more powerful than a handful of stats. It needs something like Stopwatch: A powerful active.
Rioter Comments
: With Malzahar once again being on the radar for nerfs maybe it's time to....
Funny story, I sometimes run champion concepts by my friend in higher-tiers. One of them had a spell shield as a passive. He dismissed this concept because "Riot would never give a champion a passive so powerful". That said, I actually don't think his spell-shield is the issue. Rather, I think it's more about how easy it is to dump a full combo on someone. R is point and click, E is point and click, W summons minions to swarm them while E/R are going on. The only aiming part is hitting Q. Compared to a short/mid-range champion like, say, Brand and he has to do a fair bit of aiming to get a full rotation of spells off successfully, even though some of his spells like R or E are point and click.
Ink Rose (NA)
: Hello, can we illustrate our narrative stories as well?
> [{quoted}](name=Ink Rose,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=y3EIyME5,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-01-05T07:06:07.421+0000) > > Hello, can we illustrate our narrative stories as well? I assume you can but you'll be judged on the writing, not the art.
: Why Safe League Players Will Never Climb and Why Feeders Determine 94% of Games
Interesting post. That said, I think there are some major flaws in your scientific method: >1) Play 50 ranked games in silver 1/silver 2 and mark subjectively whether or not I felt like they were "competitive". >2) For those 50 ranked games, was there a player on either team that 7 kills in 10 or less minutes (we will call this fed). * For one thing, 50 ranked games is an extremely small sample size. I know it doesn't sound small but players who binge/play a ton of ranked can hit some pretty absurd games per season. It'll also rise higher the further up you get, as you're required to play to avoid decay. * Subjective markers are a bad indication of your main point. Instead, you should/should have opt(ed) for an indicator. Say a surrender at 20 after an overwhelming loss or a game timer that is under 25 minutes. Not saying this is key but it could be a measureable example of a game that's easy to mark as competitive/not competitive. * "Silver 1/2. I don't want to harp on this point too much but you should opt to have a spread across the board. This just tells me that in your games in Silver 1/2, one singular player could cause the rise/fall of a team. As a counter point, I could argue that this isn't showing that the game is snowbally but that there is a large amount of smurfs or players who troll Silver games. I don't have proof, but it could be an explanation. I still think this is a great post and that you should delve deeper in. For the future: * Use a larger sample size than just yourself and 50 games. Maybe aim for 100 (I know, it's a lot) and co-check those stats with others. * Expand your rank scale. In doing so, you might find major and important things about the state of the game rank-by-rank. * Take account not just for "feeding" but trolling. See how many games are lost by someone intentionally throwing, because that might tell more about the state of behavior than the state of the game. * Use a more quantifiable measure. Talk with others, see what the general consensus of a "lost game" is to people or one with overwhelming odds. Good luck and I do hope you expand this!
Barkley (NA)
: I've got what you want, Riot. ANOTHER way to make money! Come inside...
That seems a bit like nickle/diming. To use DOTA as a comparison, their passes for tournaments (at least when I played) gave you all the games in that tournament for about 9.99 or so. At around 10-20 games per tournament, you could get quite a bit. Majors, like their version of Worlds, were free iirc. Depending on the tournament, you could also get a skin or a courier. If this was adapted to league, I'd argue to come in three different "packs": Team-based: For around $10 or so, you get a 975 team skin and access to all the team's games for the season. Split the cost between Riot and the Team. (50/50? 60/40? IDK) Region-based: For around $20, you can pick two team skins from that region as well as have access to all games that season for said region. Season-based: For around $30, you can pick three team skins from **ANY** region as well as have access to all games from all regions. Team skins could be purchased separately for the same split. Still, in this pack system: * Specific fans can support/focus on a singular team they like. * You can opt to support a region if you're hardcore NA/EU/CN/etc. fan. * You can go for the season pass and support a variety of teams you like.
: Any functional champion's kit allows you to circumvent its weaknesses through skill. Any kit that doesn't is just trash.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3G3kAqX1,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-01-02T06:59:28.054+0000) > > Any functional champion&#x27;s kit allows you to circumvent its weaknesses through skill. Any kit that doesn&#x27;t is just trash. Perhaps to a degree, but none moreso than CT's champions. Certain champions have tools that can help them cover up weaknesses but not outright erase them. CT champions, to an extent, can nullify them to such a degree that it almost feels like they don't have one.
Rioter Comments
Wuks (NA)
: [Spoiler Megathread] Star Wars: The Last Jedi
So here's my feeling on it: I don't think it was a bad movie. Despite what some people say, I wouldn't say this completely destroys star wars canon. In fact, I like the idea of Luke Skywalker being bitter and sullen. It's a painful thing to witness and it makes us realize that even our legendary heroes are not immune to time, folly and the agony of wrong choices. It's a sad, sobering moment but one that I feel makes the Star Wars universe all the more real. But my problem with the movie is that beyond the one amazing scene with the jump to lightspeed? It's...forgettable. It's just not a movie I'll remember. Which is **POISON** for Star Wars. Star Wars is a bombastic universe of space laser monk samurais fighting evil space nazis as they want to blow up planets. How the fuck can I forget this? On top of that, there are some confusing plot holes that would remove a ton of the dramatic tension. Overall, what I feel is the biggest missed opportunity is that Rey and Kylo didn't team up 100%. The way they had been talking about the dark side and the light side, i was actually expecting them to team up and to balance the force at last. Rey to establish the jedi order, Kylo to establish the sith in harmony rather than as warring sides. THAT would have been fantastic and I would have been thrilled to see the evolution of the star war canon to something more along the lines of how it's presented in the KOTOR/TOR timelines. (Side note: I gave a pass t TFA because I do feel that they needed to find their footing. This movie, however, did not really thrill me.)
: Kindred, no new skins, so much opportunity.
Just a quick reminder that, as cool as the art is, it's technically fan art and should be in [Concepts and Creations.](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts) It's on the front page so I don't really want to kill discussion but know for the future, thanks. -Cap
: Beautiful Winter Wonder Ahri by LRY CiteMER
Das some lewd stuff yo. Just for the future: Posts like this should go in [Concepts and Creations](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/skin-champion-concepts) because it's a fan-created skin. SAS is for Riot-created lore, skins, videos, etc. I'm not going to delete it because this post is on the front page and has a fair amount of discussion but please be aware for the future, my dudes. Appreciate it sharing awesome art though! -Cap
: The Projects For Every Designer on the Champions Team for 2018 so far
ChuShoe (NA)
: Who would win?
#Who would win? {{champion:136}} {{champion:142}} Celestial god-beings who either inherit the power of or personify an aspect of the cosmos. or {{champion:81}} one shooty boi and his power glove.
: Feature/QoL change/Idea Generator for 2018 and beyond!
Neato frito. Feature/Suggestion Name: Archival Tab (Trust me it's not TOO inspired by the position.) Opportunity/Problem Statement: League has a lot of lore, information and it's easy to miss stuff at the fast-pace the stuff on the client. As an example, the Varus music video/comic lasted all of three days, making it easy to miss for players who didn't see reddit, league or otherwise in those three days. Plus all of League's lore is whittled down to a paragraph or so in the client. Brief Description: Sort of like the collection page, Riot can add either a sample page like the Universe tab or create an interactive menu to find information. You can even align it so that champions players have recently unlocked are at the top of the "library". This would allow Riot to share character stories, keep up-to-date in client and even provide another way for people to get into lore without having to hop/skip/jump to another website. Target Audience: Mostly lore fans, but that's not to say that people who just want to know more about the person they unlocked can't find value in the page. Mockups/Screenshots: None yet. I'll get to it though.
yoshi2790 (EUW)
: Cupcake lover {{champion:55}} Lore: Katarina was always an athletic and flexible child, she participated in gymnastic contests and won a lot. She was really proud of herself, maybe a bit arrogant, and her mother didn't like that. She thought Katarina was ungrateful for the opportunities she gets from her mom by receiving all these gymnastic lessons. As punishment, she locked Katarina up in a room full of cupcakes, so she'd get fat and appreciate more what she can do. Unfortunately her mom died in a car accident and Katarina was left in the cupcake room. Years later she could escape. She never got really fat, because she kept training in the cupcake-filled room, but she now has a cupcake addiction. She's crazy for cupcakes. Now she's looking for her mom to ask her for her cupcake recipe. Passive: Everytime a champion Katarina has damaged in the last 3 seconds dies, Katarina gets an energy boost from the cupcake parts that are left on their body which makes the cooldown of her abilities lower by 15 seconds. Picking up piles of cupcakes makes her happy and scream, throwing the cupcakes around. Q: She throws a cupcake that hits 3 targets and then falls down after the first target hit as a pîle of cupcake. W: Because of all the cupcakes she eats, she has to vomit, leaving a pile of cupcake behind. because she vomits she feels better and gets a ms boost. E: Katarina Sees a pile of cupcake and jumps to it. R: Feeling in Cupcake heaven, Katarina throws Cupcakes to everyone around her. Is this a bit what you wanted the challenge to be? I didn't really get it so sorry if it's totally wrong xd
This is actually the type of post I was hoping for! Just to show people that with even a little bit of work, you can turn a mature, dark and serious character like Katarina and morph her into this goofy cupcake-slinging assassin.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7HjwaNch,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-12-19T20:04:18.282+0000) > > URF with a ten ban system won&#x27;t change anything really. The fact is just that the S+ tier of URF characters are so far removed from even the S or S- tier champions that the game becomes an absolute shitshow if you allow people to pick them. And no, guy who is going to come respond to my comment with &quot;Well I -like- playing subpar champions in ARAM&quot;, I don&#x27;t believe you for a second and those situations often end with a lost game because someone picked Vlad or Fizz and made left hell. > > Just make URF All random and unlock all champions for it because as it turns out, ARAM accounts on URF don&#x27;t function too poorly. You tell me what's more fair. Being able to pick the champions that are considered cancer or getting forced to play a champ that's a terrible urf champ such as {{champion:201}} or {{champion:157}}? Yeah that's what I thought. ARAM accounts on AR URF? Ok what about those that play AR URF that don't have ARAM accounts? Those guys get the short end of the stick AGAIN.
Probably the latter because only 1-2 S+++ tier champs will be in the game while the scale varies. And yes, I'm not saying it's right that ARAM accounts exist (as I've fought with Riot for years on this) but it should be truly all random.
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