: Can't say I like the mechanical hand he's holding. I like the silhouette of it and the twitchiness is fine, I just think they could have done something more interesting.
I love the metal bits of him. Makes it feel like whatever fiddle's true form is just ripped apart farming equipment to make it. Also adds more weight and power to him. I love current fiddle, but it looks like you can snap him in two with a little effort.
Jaspers (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EHAE7kU2,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-01-21T12:25:40.311+0000) > > she got a comic tho She did. Doesn't mean I don't want to see her in a cinematic also but I guess we did need to see Yasuo again. Poor guy doesn't get enough exposure.
> [{quoted}](name=Jaspers,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=EHAE7kU2,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2019-01-21T12:30:29.232+0000) > > She did. Doesn't mean I don't want to see her in a cinematic also but I guess we did need to see Yasuo again. Poor guy doesn't get enough exposure. I mean, Yasuo has only been in two 3d Animations. Same with Draven. Every other character in the animation hasn't been in a 3d animation from Riot as far as I can remember. And considering the popularity and memes around both Draven and Yasuo, it's fair to say that it kinda makes sense.
Sungy (NA)
: ***
Yeah... so you want OG Poppy back? Or Sion? Or old fashion Warwick? What about classic Yorick, who was super fun according to my friend, but was also a pain in the ass to play against? I get the sentiment, but there are a decent amount of reworked champs that are just better now. You even have the slightly reworked champs like singed, or older reworked champs that people forget about like Trundle.
: I don't think its a bad design. I just think they overtuned it and didn't think it fully through on what should proc it (I just read a comment here saying ignite can proc it? that's kind of dumb) I like the way it works more than the older version, it just needs some tuning
Most spells in the game proc it. Even Bard's Ult. I tested that one. It's kinda dumb.
EdgeLady (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainSeto,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=rLxavEXW,comment-id=001e0001,timestamp=2018-12-01T19:01:48.259+0000) > > I feel I missed sarcasm, or at least I hope I did, but here's a list:{{champion:266}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:157}} (Mord is here for his Pentakill skin) Add {{champion:104}} for his Pool Party skin. {{champion:81}} and {{champion:4}} also show some more in their soccer skins. {{champion:245}} isn't bad either.
I didn't plan on making skins as part of the argument but I was too lazy to try and figure out which one Mord was in the list so I added that. Mostly because skins are more "Casual" or theme'd and not lore based for them. But if we do include them, a decent list of choices opens up. For both genders. But for the most part, I wanted to list of base skins for champs that show some decent skin, and again, was too lazy to fix Morde because of the way you use those icons. You did list off the Iconic for Graves(imo), which maybe would be good to include for champs.
: my complaint is there isnt enough sexualization for guys, infact theres none at all. Aside from varus how many male champions actually show a decent amount of skin? Lel.
I feel I missed sarcasm, or at least I hope I did, but here's a list:{{champion:266}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:12}} {{champion:63}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:79}} {{champion:141}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:497}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:14}} {{champion:44}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:157}} (Mord is here for his Pentakill skin)
: How do you kill the enemy nexus without winning in a big teamfight?
So, I've got two fun examples of this. First off, the valid example. My team just got destroyed, down to inhibs and behind against a team that had a much better team fight potential. I'm playing Sion, I'm not exactly doing to well. But I've got a bright idea, using his passive and his ult. If you know the current meta, it should be obvious, but this was like a year ago, so it wasn't "THE META". I figure that I'm a big dumb tank they need to kill twice, and my ult allows me to crash into their mid inhib turret and beat on it forcing them to deal with me. That's exactly what happens. My suicides into their tower destroys it, and their mid inhib is now completely open. I'm serving as this annoying distraction as the rest of the team defends and slowly but surely catches up. They've caught on to me, and now travel as a pack down mid, with only one or two missing at a time. I use this to my advantage, ult into them, and if I hit, I flash forward dragging myself to their inhib. If I don't hit any of them, I hit the inhib and drag them back. I do this a few times, and the inhib falls. My team has caught up, and can now fight decently enough that they win fights as I keep assaulting them with my want to die. Turns out, that effort actually won us the game. The second example was an AURF game, so it's not entirely valid, but the core is. I got heim, and well, I know how to heim. The games pretty even, they've started winning the team fights though, and they are down to their nexus turrets, but have quickly pushed us back to our own through team fights being lost and them getting good picks. So we are in the final legs of the game, a few teamfights have us on the defensive. That is, until they go to baron. My team goes to defend, and fight for it, but I decide that no matter who wins, the game is ending, and use that chance to sneak through their jungle and flash into their base to avoid vision as long as I can. The fight is going on, and if any of them back they lose baron. I throw down turrets and my ult turret, and take two towers as the fight finishes. If I remember right, they won but are down by a decent amount of people, and their jax backs to stop me. It's too late, the distraction paid off and I've won the game for my team. Point of the both examples, is that in low elos, distractions can do wonders. Doesn't matter if you are just buying time, or actually making an effort to push and you just so happen to draw their ire. A good enough one, repeated or not, can win the game for your team if you are behind. It's not going to be easy, and depending on how good the distraction is and if it can be constantly done, it may not be enough. But it's a strategy that is pretty common, and is part of the reason Inting Sion and Trynda are so damn good. Not only are they good distractions that can soak up damage, but they require at least a few people to fully stop because they have a quirk that is difficult to put down solo, Trynd's ulti and Sion's immunity to the first death cc applied to him mean that you need a decent amount of CC or insane burst to put an end to them.
: What are your top 5 favorite champions and what do they say about you?
{{champion:240}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:427}} {{champion:203}} {{champion:16}} Uh.... I uh... I've got nothing.
: Which Champion can you relate to the most?
{{champion:240}} Because I'm mentally unstable and more often than not lose myself in violence, slipping in and out of control of myself. I also really like tacos.
5050BS (NA)
: Is Riot ever going to take a look at Heimerdinger?
Fiddlesticks, Rumble, any champ that has an ability that isn't stopped by CC/interrupt, or has a cast and forget kinda spell can deal damage while zhonya's. As long as it's an ability stopped by CC, it can carry through. In fact, that's why you build Zhonya's on Fiddlesticks, because it works so damn well with his ult. Karthus can use his E while Zhonya's and deal huge damage if done right.
agac4234 (EUW)
: if u hate assassins just play tanks lmao.
Outside of a few tanks, you can't go top lane. You could go a Jungle Tank, only to lose out on Scuttle Bug constantly unless you are able to avoid the enemy jungler entirely as you go for one. The amount of Damage, and certain characters being able to do near constant true damage, negates anything most tanks could attempt to do.
: You're forgetting one key thing: What's stopping a Cho'gath or whatever from physically sitting on top of his cannon to stop you from killing it, if you can just stand on your minions?
The large amount of free damage you get on him, while he tries to prevent you from getting some gold. His hitbox, late game in particular, is so large that he could block several minions, in exchange for you getting free damage off, and even killing him. I don't think that it'd be worth losing health just to prevent minor gold gains, even more so when you open yourself up to being killed and negating your goal of trying to stop the enemy from getting gold.
: First Yordle of the thread, I believe! I like the concept here. Kled has shown us that not all Yordles are all pleasant and cuddly, but this concept does it without needing to add a hint of mental derangement. It's nice seeing a Yordle who's got some bite for reasons related to personality rather than mental state. (That said, Kled is still rather entertaining.) I also like the mental image of a little Yordle confidently taming all these big, snarling animals.
> [{quoted}](name=Zero Shingetsu,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QAElHdZY,comment-id=002f0000,timestamp=2018-04-29T02:42:47.766+0000) > > First Yordle of the thread, I believe! I like the concept here. Kled has shown us that not all Yordles are all pleasant and cuddly, but this concept does it without needing to add a hint of mental derangement. It's nice seeing a Yordle who's got some bite for reasons related to personality rather than mental state. (That said, Kled is still rather entertaining.) I also like the mental image of a little Yordle confidently taming all these big, snarling animals. Yep. Bandle City doesn't get much attention from what I've seen, but Yordles are by far my favorite group of champs. My idea was for her to be a support who could be fully focused on supporting the ADC, or taking up top lane while still being able to support bot lane with her passive, which I figured would be having a set of 5 animals that she can assign to her team mates. For example, a bird like animal she could give to the adc or jungler for extra vision, a thick scaled monitor lizard for the tank that adds a little extra protection and will help with engages, a spitting viper that can add a DOT effect to certain abilities for any role, stuff like that. She'd most certainly be a hard one to make a balanced kit for, but it's honestly about time we had a full on beast master champion, and what better than a Yordle who's spent centuries taming wild beasts for the purposes of fighting battles that her kind sometimes isn't quite strong enough to deal with on their own.
: Community Lore Survey: If you were a champion...
WHO WOULD YOU SERVE: Being a Yordle from Bandle City, I find and capture animals to bring back to my home where I train them to be battle animals. Unlike most of the other Yordles, I'm not the kindest fellow and won't hesitate to sic my beasts onto those that upset me. If Bandle City needs defending though, I'm normally one of the first to show up, lending my animals to the other warriors to help fend off anyone who thinks they can get away with attacking us. WHAT THREE CHAMPIONS DO YOU HAVE CONNECTIONS TO: {{champion:17}} Often right there on the front lines with him, though rarely do I share my animals with him. There's just something off about him that I don't trust. {{champion:78}} My sister. I send her letters wondering how her search goes, hoping that she'll realize that she's the hero. I tried telling her once, but she is adamant that she isn't the hero. I want to have her home, as I miss her. {{champion:18}} Another person I help defend the city. She'll often get an animal from me during battles as she tends to keep them safe. WHAT WOULD YOUR ROLE BE: Support/Battle Enchanter WEAPON OF CHOICE: My weapon is a whip, but I bring into the battle 5 animals, one for each teammate. WHAT WOULD YOUR CHAMPION'S GENDER BE: Female.
: There isn't an implication she's especially corrupted, in my eyes. In fact, she's still decidedly human -- she didn't give in to Void corruption but rather, through will and her suit, resisted it and learned to fight it physically and mentally. While I agree the corrupted Void human angle could be interesting, it's decidedly *not* what she is meant to be.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=dmIzTEKQ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-02-20T18:42:58.157+0000) > > There isn't an implication she's especially corrupted, in my eyes. In fact, she's still decidedly human -- she didn't give in to Void corruption but rather, through will and her suit, resisted it and learned to fight it physically and mentally. While I agree the corrupted Void human angle could be interesting, it's decidedly *not* what she is meant to be. Considering the very world falls to the corruption of the void, a mere fragile human shouldn't come out of the void after years with no signs of corruption at all. Kassadin prepared for his journey into the void, and he's dying from the corruption even after that. Scuttle is turned into the Rift Herald. There is no reason, no logical reason for a human to come out untouched purely due to willpower. Sure she's got the voidborn suit, but even still, it looks like she could part with that and look exactly like she did going into the void. Not to mention the fact that she takes the name of a Voidborn, which is what upsets me the most out of her design. She just feels extremely disappointing to have as the first void character in 3 years, let alone as a void character with the title of a Voidborn.
: Some reasons why the old League might have been better
I enjoy the new dragons. Sure, there is RNG on what types you'll get, but that's not terrible. Old dragon was gone as soon as possible, because of it's clear buff to the team. The new dragons aren't like that. Is it Cloud first? If it is, is the Hec or Warwick on the enemy team? If yes again, then you they will go for it as soon as they can, because they get massive buffs themselves from cloud, and the extra movement speed itself is enough to save other members of the team. Depending on the type, you can set the priority for getting drag differently, which is nice. It's not "Oh, we can get drag ASAP because it's a clear buff to the entire team" to "Is this dragon gonna be nice for the team comp?". Ocean's are gonna be much more valuable to teams that have a lot of heavy mana users than it would be to a team that doesn't worry about mana problems. Infernal is strong, and is going to be prioritized often sure, but that's because it's the only dragon buff that helps in combat. All the others are mostly out of combat, and thus they tend to be a bit better spread on how important they are, but still, it's not terrible, and doesn't contribute to the snowball nearly as much. Rift Herald is a slightly different story. However, herald isn't new, she's been in the game for a long time. No body gave a damn about her though, because she wasn't worth the time and effort to take. I'm not lying when I say that before the changes, I saw herald get taken in a game 5 times at most. She was a completely pointless jungle camp that gave a buff that wasn't worth it in the slightest. Is she really powerful now? Yeah, but that's good. She's actually worth taking now, and it's not without risk. If you get caught taking her while she's low, you risk her being stolen, or getting the kill but being killed in the process. Her buff only works if you get her pickup after she's dead, and if you get stopped before you can pick it up, there is a good chance that no one will get the pick up. Maybe they could tweak her a bit for balance, seeing how she's great at taking towers, but don't remove her from the game. If anything just nerf her a bit. I agree about the towers, they are way too weak right now, and while yes, you shouldn't be untouchable under them, an assassin, fighter, diver, or jungler shouldn't be able to kill you and get away unscathed when you are more than half health. Sure, it's their job, but it should require you being lower on health, and them being skilled at diving you and making a good play. I disagree on the plants though. I find no problem with them, and they each have balanced uses. Blast cone will get you over a wall to a camp quicker or to escape a chaser, but you need to aim somewhat with them or you are gonna have a bad time. Blue Plants grant you vision, allowing a jungler to check the enemy's jungler to see if they are there, what camps are taken, and if there are wards in the big pits, but they can also give the jungler away, as it's noticeable when the wave passes by, allowing you to quickly avoid a gank or warn a teammate about the incoming problem. Honey Fruit allows the jungler to do their job better, giving those with poorer clears the ability to keep in the jungler or recover after a gank once 6:30 minutes pass, and late game they can allow someone to heal up after a team fight to stay with the group instead of recalling. Doing so though may make you not back for items as often, and if you do it and get caught, the small slow is enough to potentially doom you. Also, feeding scuttle is fun. Your final point, I only agree with when it comes to the damage. Part of the reason the game snowballs so hard is because of damage, and some items simply just break the game. The stealth stuff though. No, I disagree about most of it. Akali and twitch are the two worst examples of the new stealth, because it makes them damn near impossible to deal with, but almost every other character with it needs it. Shaco's allows him to gank in paths most junglers can't use, allows him to dive into a backline and do his job, and allows him to escape before he's popped like one of his boxes. Evelynn needs it because trust me, she explodes if tapped by an adc. She would never get close enough to do her damage without it. Rengar and Kha'zix are assassins, it fits thematically, and allows them to get to their targets and do what they need to. Sure, the fact that you can't counter ward against some champs sucks, but only champs with short bursts of being unseen. Evelynn can be spotted by a ward, as can Rengar(not even talking about the big ass indicator over your head) and other champs that remain unseen for huge amounts of time. Honestly, your main complaints with the assassin rework are the parts of it that aren't problematic.
: Need a little help Riot?
Okay, so for 17 you want champions who rely on stealth to no longer be viable at all. Cause that's how you make Eve, Twitch's Q, Teemo's Passive and shrooms, Rengar's Ult(never mind the indicator) and bush passive, Kha'zix stealth, Shaco's stealth and boxes, bushes, and wards completely pointless. Sure, it's a "Late game item", except it would be a first buy for any tank support because it's worth 3 armour and magic resist items with the stats you are giving it. It completely negates any ambushes and baits, and anyone who uses camo and stealth get's deleted because THE ADC SEES THE PERSON WHEN THEY SHOULDN'T. The excuse of it being a late game item is just completely invalid, as 700 health, 100 Armour, and 120 Magic Resist is just as much, if not more than 2 other hybrid tank items, plus the passive which makes it more cost efficient, and space efficient than pretty much any other tank support item because it's just so damn powerful. For 18, the response is about the same. Items too damn powerful and potent, for not nearly enough cost. Sure, you sacrifice small stat increases from build paths, but when the final item is better than other COMPLETED items by a large margin, it's worth it. I mean a fuck, there is no reason to not take your suggestion for 17 on a tank, and then take the other tank hyper item. That would be 4 tank items worth of stats pretty much, for a slightly more or less gold. 20 wouldn't be possible with leagues code I feel like, and seeing how skins aren't personal, and everyone sees them, it's very likely that everyone having different rift skins would be impossible. 21 I have complaints with. Zoe doesn't have a stun. She has a sleep. And she needs it, because her Q isn't an easy skill shot to land. Her E is in her kit so that her one damage ability has a better chance to land(Yes her E does damage, but it's not a lot). Ornn is a tank, one that's extremely CC and team fight based. He's all about CC'ing the enemy team so his team can land their damage, and win team fights. That's not a hard concept to understand if you look at any other champions who fall under the same roof as him. Nautilus, Zac, Braum, Amumu, Alistar, Jarvan, Blitzcrank, Malphite are all like Ornn, heavy cc Tanks. Kled's got his bear trap on a rope. It's not really a snare, in fact, it's not like a lot of CC effects. It allows Kled to keep his target close enough for Kled to do what Kled does. KILL PEOPLE. His goal isn't to help the team in by providing CC. His goal is to help the team, by killing the other team. His Q and E when mounted on Skaarl show that. When every character that isn't a tank has some form of mobility ability to get out of trouble, character's like Kled need something so they can stick onto people. Kled throws his Q, which hooks onto you, but you can flash out or move quick enough for it to not pull you back. His E allows him to follow you where you go so he can keep showing you his ax in a very intimate way. Even then, he may not be able to keep up with a champ because of all the mobility options to champs who aren't tanks, or juggernauts, or bruisers. So, yes, CC is often needed for any new champion so they don't get left in the dust and are unable to do their job. I'm sure other people will pick apart your other points, and I'll try to look at any counter arguments to this comment without bias, but still.
Camnopg (NA)
: My message to Riot and The League Community on Everything
I miss long games. Where the shortest were towards the 30 minute mark, rather than 14 minutes being the "All of one side is gone and dead" that it is now. I missed being in a game where at 40 minutes everyone was team fighting but still making plans for a push or a defense. If the game went to 50 minutes, that was fine, as the game wasn't likely a stomp, and with each team being worn down and making plays to try and secure themselves another edge. It felt nice, and a loss didn't feel bad because you knew that both teams played well but one team just planned better. Now the games rarely reach 30 minutes, with one team clearly winning but not sealing the deal because they have no reason to fear the enemy team coming back with equal force. If the ADC is fed, they won't die without two of your teammates going with them, and it's not easy to defend turrets when they don't deal nearly enough damage to force back a tank and damage dealers. I've had times where I've had a character walk under turret, hit me, take a turret shot, and just walk out for a second before repeating the same thing. Riot and some of the playerbase just seem to not care about a game being long enough for a comeback. They seem to be pushing it so that the botlane who gets a kill decides the game. I wish it wasn't like that. I wish each lane mattered, and an odd, off meta build could work well. Personally I love taking odd characters into top lane, or as a support. Once dominated a game as Kled support. Felt good.
: PSA: One which is extremely overlooked.
Doesn't change the fact that your own minions will kill you under turret by blocking you, or stop you from escaping a chase, or make you take a hit you could of avoided if you had been able to walk a certain direction. I don't mind minion block when it's the enemy minions. When it's allied minions though, and I die because of it, it's not fun. It's one of the most tilting things in the game. Even if you pay attention to your minions, they can still break the line and go into a super odd formation that can cut you off unless you blow flash. Take a trade and end it only to find out you are stuck between your minions and their minions and die because the other player took advantage of it isn't something that's fun.
: you get 50 BE when you win the first game of the day
> [{quoted}](name=DiverseDrakon2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Obcm0hY6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-12-10T02:42:00.655+0000) > > you get 50 BE when you win the first game of the day Still, a person shouldn't have to wait another day just for 24 BE. You'd get that much out of a bot game in the old system, without having to wait till the next time your FWOTD comes up.
DNFVixen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IAeZP66i,comment-id=000100000001,timestamp=2017-12-02T14:26:23.472+0000) > > Because his central theme of vengeance, is altered and made into another VERY DIFFERENT kind of vengeance. Not only that, the name of Varus isn't even the arrow man's name anymore. The character is completely scraped without a single bits left, while I said it's on the same level of bad as Trundle rework, I do think it's actually worse because at the very least he didn't lose his own name to his weapon also. > > The old Varus, at his core, was a question of how far one is willing to go to avenge for their loved ones, the current Varus's only associate with the idea of revenge is that the Darkin wants a comeback for getting rekt and imprisoned millions of years ago. That is a very different foundation of a character, it's literally a different character. > > Most of the other reworks have never gone into this level of re-write, where the old character is left utterly unrecognisable after the rework without a single trace left, not even their core theme is remotely the same. They are completely unrellateable in every possible way contextually, they really may as well be a new character and not a lore rework. > > A change like this is only needed for when their central foundation is for some reason, no longer valid, like how Fiddlestick needs a complete overhaul of this level because his strong tie with the Institute of War is no longer valid after the retcon had deleted the latter. But not Varus, because Noxian invsaion of Ionia is still a very real thing in the current lore, and such a great project on completely (and I do mean it very literally) scraping old Varus makes little sense. I have 2 names for you Janna and Warwick. Also I have read up on old Varus's lore, it was pretty hollow and weak, and the part where you basically say "The old Varus, at his core, was a question of how far one is willing to go to avenge for their loved ones, the current Varus's only associate with the idea of revenge is that the Darkin wants a comeback for getting rekt and imprisoned millions of years ago." Is pretty wrong, in this lore they are still struggling with the line of how far is too far for vengeance if you read the comic and watched the video. Varus is still the avatar of vengeance but this lore got filled out more. This lore change is a good one. The Darkin wants vengeance on all things, Valmar is struggling between killing all noxians in vengeance and not going too far in his quest for vengeance, and Kai is trying to prevent Valmar from acting on his hate and his thirst for vengeance. It is a lore of Love, Loss, Struggle, and Balance.
> [{quoted}](name=Gentle Lynn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IAeZP66i,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2017-12-02T14:47:06.070+0000) > > I have 2 names for you Janna and Warwick. > Also I have read up on old Varus's lore, it was pretty hollow and weak, and the part where you basically say "The old Varus, at his core, was a question of how far one is willing to go to avenge for their loved ones, the current Varus's only associate with the idea of revenge is that the Darkin wants a comeback for getting rekt and imprisoned millions of years ago." Is pretty wrong, in this lore they are still struggling with the line of how far is too far for vengeance if you read the comic and watched the video. Varus is still the avatar of vengeance but this lore got filled out more. This lore change is a good one. The Darkin wants vengeance on all things, Valmar is struggling between killing all noxians in vengeance and not going too far in his quest for vengeance, and Kai is trying to prevent Valmar from acting on his hate and his thirst for vengeance. It is a lore of Love, Loss, Struggle, and Balance. Uh.... Warwick is still a hunter. Which has been his theme for a while now. Sure he was a alchemist in his very 1st lore story, but that was scrapped and he became a bounty hunter who's human body was no longer enough, so he became a werewolf. His newest lore is a man who has a troubled past, but after being killed and resurrected as a fully fledged chimera of a beast he has decided to hunt down the criminals of Zaun. It doesn't change the very core of his character, which is being a hunter.
Sciela (NA)
: But Lux's E and Ori's ball are fine? They're a lot more dangerous too.
> [{quoted}](name=Sciela,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wFAJeTeF,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-12-01T12:19:50.691+0000) > > But Lux's E and Ori's ball are fine? They're a lot more dangerous too. Right? Lux's E is about as wide as the entire lane. Zoe's E is only wide enough to block the jungle entrances next to the walls by first mid turret. Morgana can Q you, then drop down a W that's just as wide as Lux's E, dealing a huge amount of damage and being to big to easily walk out of by time the root wears off. Ori is... I have to disagree with that one. The only time it feels too big is when ulting, but it's a lot smaller then you would think. But let's also mention TF, who Gold Cards you, before Q'ing away the rest of your health. Syndra has insane range with her stun, and while it's somewhat hard to land against people who are paying attention, if it hits, you are dead. Zoe's E is by far one of the least oppressive CC's in the game when compared to a huge amount of burst mages. It can be dodged, the trap is easily avoided, and even if you get hit you can flash behind minions to avoid the incoming Q, kill zoe, or Zhonya's. It also gets broken if you are damaged.
: Buying champions is impossible
I'm right there with you dude. Been playing since 2015, about a month before the rift map change. I just got every champion 3150 and below last month. I have 49 champions left to get, and with the new changes it'll take till next pre-season before I have all the champs at the rate I get BE in the new system. People argue that "Oh, you clearly get it faster now than you use to," but that's just wrong. It'll take me 20-30 games to level up only to MAYBE get 1250 BE. If it was a for sure 1250, I wouldn't be as upset, but it's not. Once you hit level 50, you have to earn 4800 or so EXP to level up, and you don't get scaling BE with the amount of EXP it takes to level, so you spend 30-40 games only to get 820 BE, which is clearly less than what you got in the old system. In the old system, you could earn at least 100 IP per PVP game of average length, didn't matter if you won or lost. That's 1000 IP every 10 games, AT LEAST. You could get more if the game went on longer, or you won. First Win of the Day increased that a decent amount. Once you hit Level 40, 10 games isn't even enough to level you up. And again, once you do level up, it's only a slight chance of you getting 1250 BE. As for FWOTD, now we get 175 less exp for only 50 BE, ONCE a day. Not nearly enough to get you a champion, unless you were really screwed over by RNG. Which isn't something that should happen. Now, you get screwed if you are 100 or 200 BE away from a champ. You have to play 20 games to level up, when the old system meant you only needed 2 games to get that champ. It's not a rewarding experience. It doesn't feel enjoyable to grind.
: > [{quoted}](name=ThePaffLegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v0Lk0adt,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-30T14:32:25.784+0000) > > Leveling up should've been an enjoyable experience... > > ...but instead it became a necessity to actually get ANY kind of basic reward in the game. When I heard about Riot removing the max level cap, I was excited because I thought it would bring a new way to get rewards. Instead, its now almost the only way to get actual rewards, which are barely even enjoyable since they are, most of the time, just frustrating to unlock. You had the opportunity to add MORE to the game Riot, why did you have to REMOVE even more? Alright, let's be constructive in this thread. By asking "How"? How could it have been an enjoyable experience? The preseason change allowed a way to combine two separate methods, two separate currencies both used to buy champions together but couldn't be used together and added a leveling system for all those players who like watching a number tick up by one. It retained the experience of not being able to get anything until arbitrary point in the future, so no change there. I am not a fan of leveling, I would prefer it not be in the game because for me, one reason, grinding to make a number on the client tick up is not entertaining. So I am asking you how you could make leveling fun and enjoyable? Because I think it is not, inherently.
> [{quoted}](name=Sona Ping,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=v0Lk0adt,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-30T15:54:07.054+0000) > > Alright, let's be constructive in this thread. > > By asking "How"? > How could it have been an enjoyable experience? The preseason change allowed a way to combine two separate methods, two separate currencies both used to buy champions together but couldn't be used together and added a leveling system for all those players who like watching a number tick up by one. It retained the experience of not being able to get anything until arbitrary point in the future, so no change there. I am not a fan of leveling, I would prefer it not be in the game because for me, one reason, grinding to make a number on the client tick up is not entertaining. > > So I am asking you how you could make leveling fun and enjoyable? Because I think it is not, inherently. They could of made it so that if you hit milestones, you get big rewards like a chests full of shards, or huge sums of BE. That would of made it fine. As long as you didn't restrict getting BE to leveling up. What makes leveling bad right now, and even punishing, is the fact that you HAVE to do it in order to get BE. You HAVE to level up to buy a champion, and if you are 100 BE off from a champ, you spend the next 2 days, or 10-15 games just to level up and afford a champion that would of taken you 1 extra game to get in the old system. Literally all that needed to happen was Leveling Up and getting to Milestones gave you big rewards, while playing the damn game got you the normal amount of currency you would have earned in the old system. -Sincerely, A person who HAS to level up one more time just for the 200 BE needed for 1 champion.
Cocho (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainSeto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-11-30T02:55:34.937+0000) > > Except that doesn't matter for anything that isn't a milestone. Leveling up from 60 to 61 isn't a milestone, you don't get a bonus for that level up. Instead you have to grind up many more games, for much less BE than you would of gotten from the old system. cry about it lol free emotes at milestones, more BE overall level 1-50ish, chance to get champ shards you want, faster leveling for players that play less games, but less BE around 50 before reaching more milestones. (and you still get the 40 and 50 milestones). One negative, that doesnt matter in the long run lmao. With all these positives. You just want to complain.
> [{quoted}](name=Cocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=0000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-30T03:03:45.998+0000) > > cry about it lol > > > free emotes at milestones, more BE overall level 1-50ish, chance to get champ shards you want, faster leveling for players that play less games, but less BE around 50 before reaching more milestones. (and you still get the 40 and 50 milestones). > > > One negative, that doesnt matter in the long run lmao. With all these positives. You just want to complain. As someone who's been playing the game for several years, and still doesn't have all of the champions in the game, it's a pretty big negative. Not to mention the fact that I'll also eventually have to start buying rune pages. It punishes people who play more games daily, something a game simply shouldn't do, and feels less rewarding over all. It's cool that it's faster for new players. It's not cool that Veterans are being punished for playing too many games a day, and that Veterans aren't being rewarded nearly as much for playing a game that they've sunk hundreds of hours into.
Cocho (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainSeto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T12:45:14.157+0000) > > Until you need 4800 EXP to level up, and you still only get a maxium of 1250 BE. That's actually slower. That still isnt true, because milestones at 40,50, 60 ect, Give you large rewards. You're only looking for negatives, and wont even take in any positives.
> [{quoted}](name=Cocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2017-11-30T02:23:22.933+0000) > > That still isnt true, because milestones at 40,50, 60 ect, Give you large rewards. > > You're only looking for negatives, and wont even take in any positives. Except that doesn't matter for anything that isn't a milestone. Leveling up from 60 to 61 isn't a milestone, you don't get a bonus for that level up. Instead you have to grind up many more games, for much less BE than you would of gotten from the old system.
Cocho (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=scribbles782,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T12:02:13.038+0000) > > This system is 100% slower than the IP system. I can see where he's coming from but COME ON. I want to buy Zoe but BE is more valuable than diamonds rn... Hey, here is math on why you're wrong. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7bxbbb/riots_be_math_is_pretty_misleading_here_are_more/ https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-board-post-title-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-henrietta It's faster.
> [{quoted}](name=Cocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WeE8eAwW,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-11-29T12:36:31.599+0000) > > Hey, here is math on why you're wrong. > > https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/7bxbbb/riots_be_math_is_pretty_misleading_here_are_more/ > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/developer-corner/Jh3Mtzu6-board-post-title-blue-essence-earn-rates-learning-the-numbers-with-carl-and-henrietta > > It's faster. Until you need 4800 EXP to level up, and you still only get a maxium of 1250 BE. That's actually slower.
: Leveling and Rewards - Improvements to Milestone Emotes, Capsules, & FWotD
You guys gonna do anything about the fact that once you reach that "Experience needed to level up Cap" we will be objectively making less BE because of the fact that you don't scale the minimum and maximum amount of Blue Essence earned from leveling up with your level. At that cap, it will literally take people days to level up, even more so if they don't play often, and once they do they have a chance of getting only 820 or so BE. An objectively lower amount of BE than what the person would of earned with IP. As it is, people use to earn more IP for the same amount of games because of the fact that your 10-20 games can result in only 820 BE. That use to be at least 1000 IP, maybe more depending on how long the games ran, and if the First Win of the Day was among those games. Once people need at LEAST 20 games to level up, it's not going to be worth it at all. That person spent at least 15-20 hours depending on the length of the games and who won, just to get MAYBE 1250 BE? It's a complete waste of time and effort. Let's not mention the fact that people still have to buy Rune Pages, because you guys didn't give us at least 5 custom Rune Pages, which is something that can also cut down on the amount people can spend on champions. Sure, we can change it in champ select, you know, as long as it doesn't bug out like it tends to do. I've lost count of the amount of times one of my friends, or myself, spent an entire game with the wrong set up because of a bug borking up the editing tool. Also, the reason why people felt like it took a long time to get champions was because it OBJECTIVELY did. After 3150 Champions, the grind would really kick in, and you'd feel how long it took you to nab that 4800 or 6300 Champion. A lot of people expected the update to change that for the better, and in a noticeable way. People expected and wanted it to be clearly faster when it came to getting champions, and we didn't get that. Despite you guys constantly saying we earn more, it neither feels like that, or is clearly like that, even more so when you look towards the permanent long grinds of Level 150 and above. I was a massive fan of the idea of getting BE as the standard currency before this update, as I thought it would of been something to really speed up my goal of collecting all of the champions. Instead I've been left feeling empty, and bitter about it, as it's extremely clear that it'll eventually get to the point where I'll have to spend an entire week grinding out champions because of the RNG of BE earnings when I level up, and just earning the gosh darn EXP TO level up.
: Does BE-Earnings from Champ pods Scale with higher levels?
Nope. Once you hit the cap for experience needed to level up, you are stuck spending a week to hopefully level up and get 1250 BE, even though you can still get 820 and 910. In other words, you won't be earning nearly as much BE as you would have if it was still the old system.
: Urgot vs Tahm / Urgot's nonsense
Actually, Urgot isn't dead till you spit him out. You can see this as you only get the announcement of the kill upon spitting him out. The enemy player doesn't go colourblind and die until you are spit out as well, so you screwed up by keeping him inside you for longer than needed. Urgot's Ult's second stage is only stopped by death and stuff like Tryndamere's Undying Rage. So it was actually fair both times. You were low enough on health, and in none of those cases was he officially dead when he activated his second stage.
AceGeo (NA)
: You don't need all the champs
I'm a collector. I must collect all the champions. I also never know what champions I'll actually find super fun. I didn't expect to like someone like Lee Sin, or Vi, but I wound up enjoying Vi to the point where she's my go to Jungler currently. Add to this the fact that just having the ability to have access to every champion in the game, if I play them often or not, allows me to trade with friends if they are a late pick in Draft, as well as making ARAM a lot more interesting. Sure, I it's not needed to have every champion, but the same goes with skins, or even ranked. It's something you do/have because you wanted to do/have it.
: Best way to gauge a player's skill? IMO, their KDA, specifically DEATHS.
I'm a bronze 2, and I'll admit that the reason why I'm that low is because of my playstyle. The fact that I love to play Kled and Vi is a good indicator of my playstyle as well. I don't play smart. I play "How deep can I shove my weapon into them before they kill me, or they die.", and that's the biggest reason I'm commonly the most deaths on my team. Is it the best playstyle for league? No. But I don't play league to be as good at the game as I can possibly get. I play for fun. The two other players I'm normally with tend to be able to make up for my reckless playstyle, but they know that I'm a semi-truck with no brakes going into a town. The most they can hope for is that I run over as many criminals as I can before I crash into a building. However, as a Karthus player as well, deaths mean little. With Karthus and Sion, a death doesn't instantly mean bad player because they can still get kills and objectives when they die. So you are somewhat right, but somewhat wrong. Sometimes a champion can destroy your theory. A singed main is rarely going to have more kills than deaths because Singed isn't a kill champ. He's a proxy/pusher/objective taker. So it's still kinda case by case.
: Ekko and Jinx.
Ekko HAD a crush on Kinx. Before she went crazy. After she became what she is now, it's assumed he doesn't have one on her anymore. Also, Twisted Fate and Eve WERE a thing, for like, an issue of Journal of Justice, but they split up. Illaoi and Gangplank were a couple, and still have feelings for each other.
: Point & Click's that could be Skillshots
Jhin Q and Gangplank Q are both not solely for hitting the enemy champ. Both abilities are very important to their farming habits, so turning them into skillshots would cause a massive decrease in the effectiveness of these two champs. Jhin's Q makes up for his reload mechanic and allows him to farm several minions at once if he's good, while Gangplank's Q is the only way for him to get the serpents he needs for his Ult upgrades. Fiddle's E is a bird. The bird is gonna hit the target no matter what. Not to mention he really can't afford to be nerfed much. Malphite Q is his only form of poke, and in some match ups it's the only way he can get farm/trade. Veigar R shouldn't be changed to a skillshot considering it's his Execute, as well as the finish to his combo. Missing the ult would literally kill him in most cases, as it's most valuable to him when he's getting chased/has stunned an enemy. Overall though, the biggest problem with your suggestions is that it would suddenly make so many character's unable to fight high mobility champs. Point and Clicks are pretty much the only way to land constant damage on someone like Kayn, Riven, or Zed. Not to mention if an ability is a point and click, it tends to be for a good reason.
Cloud273 (NA)
: Can we get rid of infernal drake for next season?
The only time Infernal Drake tips the scales the way you suggest is if it's more than one. 1 Infernal Drake isn't nearly as powerful as an Ocean, a Mountain, or a Cloud. Why? Because Infernal Drake only increases damage slightly, and can be easily built against. Ocean is a team wide increase to Mana and Health Regen, something that can't be built against, as well as easily increasing the power of Mana hungry champs, or champs with high lifesteal/Health Regen. Mountain is extra damage against Baron, as well as turrets, and you can't stop that effect apart from killing the person attacking the objective. Cloud allows a team to easily escape, and makes it impossible to catch up to them without smart planning and cutting off the escapee.
: Syndra ult should not be allowed to do 900 damage when it's not a skill shot.
As someone who plays Karthus a lot(not as much as I use to though), let me tell you, I can hit the entire god damn enemy team for 1000 damage each late game. I don't even need to aim, I simply press R to win.
: throws a fucking axe at you{{champion:119}} shoots ice arrows at you{{champion:22}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:51}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:42}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:202}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:222}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:236}} shoots you with a gun {{champion:21}} ...you get the gist of it
> [{quoted}](name=JlHADlST DRAVEN,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=EjMGf3Ev,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-15T01:37:30.968+0000) > > throws a fucking axe at you{{champion:119}} > shoots ice arrows at you{{champion:22}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:51}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:42}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:202}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:222}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:236}} > shoots you with a gun {{champion:21}} > ...you get the gist of it Still though. Malphite is a big rock. That throws himself at you. Also, an anchor is much bigger than a champion, getting hit by that thing would shatter most of your bones, like it does to Graves in New Dawn(His entire lower half is broken, as are all of his ribs. That was while blocking with his gun. It would have smashed him in two had he not blocked.) Also also, Lucian shoots you with light. Wooo scary.
: Changes that would make the game less toxic
Only one comment from me. Don't complain about Naut. His main deal is his CC and his tank stats. Unlike thresh, a Naut isn't going to be in 90% of the games you play because he's not good for every comp, nor is he as flexible as thresh for filling roles in a team comp. A Naut will more than likely have to be the tank of a team, and has to focus on CC'ing the enemy in order to do much in a team fight. Thresh can go damage, go tank, go support focused, while also having a pull, a stun, a displacement, a Get out of Jail free card, a shield, and passively gets stronger. There is a reason you see him more often than Naut. Again, Naut does have a huge amount of CC, but he's still not nearly as bad as Thresh's strong kit, or even Morgana, who's got you locked down for 5 minutes.
: Sick and Tired of secondary role
You're a mid main, what do you expect? Mid is by far the most picked role in league. It's been like that for ages. Now, you getting secondary all the time, maybe there is a problem, or maybe you just get unlucky. A good way to fix this problem is pick a role like top or jungle as your secondary, as they are pretty popular as well. Or you know, just play the role given. I don't play adc that much, but if I get filled into it I don't mind, because it allows me to work on a weaker part of my game.
Skorch (NA)
: To the people upset about the premade star guardian missions...
There are two missions that you can do solo. Two. Which means you literally can't get the rewards unless you have a premade. That's quite unfair. Edit: Three. But the hard solo is easier with a premade.
: Unless I'm reading this wrong, Ultimore is a hilariously bad idea
{{champion:30}} : "Hey, my ult is finally less than 180 seconds at max rank...... oh, it now does 20% less damage because it's too strong with this new rune... shit." P.S. I'm a Karthus player. This rune would be awesome, but it'd make his ult get nerfed because of this optional rune.
Glîtchy (NA)
: Change Tahm Kench W.
So instead of the tahm getting to use the ability to save an ally who doesn't realize he needs saving, the ally can get themselves killed and the tahm wastes the cooldown. Trust me, there is a reason Tahm can make the choice. When your Caitlyn thinks they'll get that ult kill on the syndra because she's low, and you the Tahm notice a jax getting ready to jump over, along with two other members of the enemy team closing in, you want to be able to FORCE the Cait into your belly so they don't die, not them choose to stay out and get killed because they didn't notice that they were about to die. (That Cait chewed me out btw because "I could've killed her" and then told me to never use my W again ever.). Sure, Tahm can troll you with it. So what. When that shit saves your life because you didn't realize you were about to die from a gank, or you made a bad move, or pretty much did anything that could end poorly for you, you'll be happy you got the instant help, rather than die because you didn't click on the Tahm because "you didn't need any help". Tahm get's flamed enough as it is, even when he saves your ass. He don't need to also get flamed because "he didn't W me" even though he tried and you didn't click him to get consumed.
Dehydration (EUNE)
: Should riot remove plants?
I've memorized each of the 2 spawn points for every plant except maybe honey fruit. I had to, as with Ivern they were the quickest way of escaping a angry jungler upset about me taking their red buff. If I'm not running, or I don't think anyone is gonna need a blast plant, I'll hit it. Blue plants I'll use to check the river for the enemy jungler, or the buffs on the other side. That's what they are made for, and they have the massive downside of giving away your location if any enemy is in the range of it. Honey Fruit spawns every 6 minutes, I know this, because I'm always keeping track if I'm jungling, or laning and need to know how long I need to last before I can grab one. Honestly, they aren't luck, and they can be used to your advantage or used against the enemy. You're in the enemy jungle? Hit the blue plant on your way to the blast cone next to dragon pit. Check to see if the enemy is in your jungle with a blue plant, or use the blast plant to get to Krugs faster. They're not the worst addition to League, not by a long shot.
Rexxiee (NA)
: Its time to make Cho lose ult stacks on death again
This was the way his ult worked a year ago. The problem was, it meant he never could tank, as a good team would keep him shut down and at 1 stack AT MOST. It also meant he was useless in ARAM because he couldn't get items without dying. They made it so he didn't lose stacks so that he could actually tank, and do his role as such. Trust me, it wasn't fun to get to level 6, get one or two stacks, and then get ganked and targeted constantly so you could never get to your 6 stack limit.
: Remove default regen
And, Garen wins top Lane. Volibear becomes a super sustainable champ in top lane. Vlad never has to worry about this either, sure he won't regen health passively, but his lifesteal makes up for it. Mundo becomes damn good, as even if he loses a trade he just cleavers a few minions. Aatrox suddenly becomes a god because of lifesteal keeping him in lane. Akali becomes even stronger in lane. ADC's don't really change. Kass and Xerath can now know that the enemy has to recall when they are OOM, while they get to stay in lane and farm up because of their abilities to regain mana. Junglers like Warwick become even more dominate, while Ivern becomes literally useless as he can't regen what he needs to mark camps. Anyone who has their own heals or abilities that regain mana suddenly get an even more noticeable advantage, and a champ like Tryndamere suddenly doesn't have to worry as they poke down the enemy and the enemy has to recall, meanwhile Tryndamere can farm up and heal off his Q, as well as never worry about mana issues. I mean sure, once everyone has 2 or 3 items, this matters less, but it's still a HUGE advantage to those that have stuff in their kit that already gives them health and mana.
Acidalia (NA)
: champions that need special balancing or need to be removed during urf
I find it funny. Everyone is like "BRING URF BACK, WE LOVE IT" and then it's back.... and all people can do is complain about some champs being busted. It's URF. Every burst mage in the game suddenly loses their biggest weakness. Assassins can spam their mobility and high damage even more. The heal decrease matters a lot less when you have someone like Nami, who can spam the hell out of it.
: Squad 5 (Champion Designer of Ornn and Ivern) is Probably the best thing to happen to LoL in years.
Oh... so that's why I felt like Ornn was familiar to me. He's made by the people who made my Main and Cupcake. Seriously though, Ornn and Ivern are two champs who are very fresh. I mean, Ivern is a jungler who's like "Nah, go free my friends" and spends his time goofing off while Ornn is just like "Here's your item, don't talk to me again" and enjoys his craft. I really love both of their kits as well, though I've got problems landing Ivern's Q, and Ornn's second part to his Ult, but other than that I love them. The only champions that come close really are Kindred, Jhin, and Kled.
: > [{quoted}](name=CaptainSeto,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfoUnMjT,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-23T21:42:09.930+0000) > > "Ivern's early game might get boring." Depends on elo. At low Elo's people tend to be a bit dumber and not watch the camp their jungler isn't taking when an Ivern is in the game. I know, I play Ivern a lot. However, never assume your enemy is dumb. Otherwise you can walk into a bush and become first blood to the ADC and Support. Typically, his early involves that super early invade to take the buff the enemy isn't taking(smite it of course, so you don't risk losing it), then take your two buffs. Mark the other camps, recall, clear, take a scuttle with smite, then gank. Ivern's camp clear method means you'll be spending most of your time as your team's roaming support, spending any time not marking camps(Including your enemy's buffs) ganking, or applying pressure. Level 6 is most certainly when your playstyle will change up, allowing you to be more aggressive, but I've found a very good use for an early daisy play. > > Ivern is very busy once team fights start. If he's not marking camps to keep an income, he's with his team spamming his shields, roots, and bushes whenever you need to take a turret, as the increased range allows the tanks/daisy to take the brunt while you are slightly safer if the enemy goes to push you away. He's going to have a lot of actives and support items, Redemp being the main one. Late game, Daisy will be up very often, so if the game is in a slower pace, or most of the team is completely steamrolling and applying tons of pressure to mid, Ivern can be a very threatening split pusher. His shield will allow her to take a lot of turret shots, and if you aren't stopped by the enemy team you'll take two turrets most of the time. > > Now, my little Daisy play I often make early. It's simple, soloing dragon. If I know the enemy jungler is dead, or in the top lane I'll take daisy with me to the dragon, set up my bushes, and start taking it. If you do it right, Daisy will die when the dragon is about 1300-1500 health, but if you keep the bushes up around you and shield yourself just right, you should get it low enough for a smite safely. I'll normally have Tracker's Knife and most, if not all of redemp(always my second item not counting boots), so I'd say you'd be alright. If you really want some safety during a solo, and you have redemp complete, use it on the dragon and daisy. It'll heal her up nice and good, and that burn damage makes the dragon slightly faster to take. > > But yeah, just playing him as you would a support who just so happens to free camps tends to be an alright way to play him. His early game is slow if the enemy doesn't know what Ivern does, and tense if they do(as they'll watch you good), so I can understand the worry of him getting boring. The only time I've ever regretted getting him though was when a game went south because we lacked the damage to do much. How early can you solo drake with daisy reliably, ofc assuming the enemy jungle is elsewhere? I like cheese strategies. As I said, I am mainly worried about Ivern being boring up until mid game when teamfights start breaking out. I often see on replays, even in low diamond, that many people will not play as though they are playing against an Ivern well enough. I don't understand how a level 2 invasion with smite can quench my thirst for action if it is not contested by enemies. Is this something that I have to play to understand? Is the threat of enemies coming to kill you enough? Are their other things such as warding and macro play that other junglers don't experience as well that keep you interested in Ivern?
> [{quoted}](name=EternalFrostFire,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lfoUnMjT,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-08-23T22:28:44.479+0000) > > How early can you solo drake with daisy reliably, ofc assuming the enemy jungle is elsewhere? I like cheese strategies. > > As I said, I am mainly worried about Ivern being boring up until mid game when teamfights start breaking out. I often see on replays, even in low diamond, that many people will not play as though they are playing against an Ivern well enough. I don't understand how a level 2 invasion with smite can quench my thirst for action if it is not contested by enemies. Is this something that I have to play to understand? Is the threat of enemies coming to kill you enough? Are their other things such as warding and macro play that other junglers don't experience as well that keep you interested in Ivern? Level 6, like I said. Just need his jungle item, which is tracker's knife, and at least part of redemp. Daisy can tank drag alright, but the ones who attack faster will likely put her down when they still have a decent amount of health. Honestly, as long as your botlane is doing good and able to rush to help if they need to, or the jungler is gone, you should be pretty fine. Spam E on daisy to keep her health, and Q for the slightly extra damage. Stay in bushes to give you range and make sure that daisy keeps the argo, though switching might be slightly better. And yes, if you don't have a 100% "the enemy doesn't know how to play against Ivern", you getting killed by smart enemies is a huge threat. If you absolutely need the danger, constantly invading and taking the buffs of the enemy is high stakes, decent rewards. But if you get caught out, prepare to be stuck behind pretty bad.
: Ivern, Shaco or Nidalee
"Ivern's early game might get boring." Depends on elo. At low Elo's people tend to be a bit dumber and not watch the camp their jungler isn't taking when an Ivern is in the game. I know, I play Ivern a lot. However, never assume your enemy is dumb. Otherwise you can walk into a bush and become first blood to the ADC and Support. Typically, his early involves that super early invade to take the buff the enemy isn't taking(smite it of course, so you don't risk losing it), then take your two buffs. Mark the other camps, recall, clear, take a scuttle with smite, then gank. Ivern's camp clear method means you'll be spending most of your time as your team's roaming support, spending any time not marking camps(Including your enemy's buffs) ganking, or applying pressure. Level 6 is most certainly when your playstyle will change up, allowing you to be more aggressive, but I've found a very good use for an early daisy play. Ivern is very busy once team fights start. If he's not marking camps to keep an income, he's with his team spamming his shields, roots, and bushes whenever you need to take a turret, as the increased range allows the tanks/daisy to take the brunt while you are slightly safer if the enemy goes to push you away. He's going to have a lot of actives and support items, Redemp being the main one. Late game, Daisy will be up very often, so if the game is in a slower pace, or most of the team is completely steamrolling and applying tons of pressure to mid, Ivern can be a very threatening split pusher. His shield will allow her to take a lot of turret shots, and if you aren't stopped by the enemy team you'll take two turrets most of the time. Now, my little Daisy play I often make early. It's simple, soloing dragon. If I know the enemy jungler is dead, or in the top lane I'll take daisy with me to the dragon, set up my bushes, and start taking it. If you do it right, Daisy will die when the dragon is about 1300-1500 health, but if you keep the bushes up around you and shield yourself just right, you should get it low enough for a smite safely. I'll normally have Tracker's Knife and most, if not all of redemp(always my second item not counting boots), so I'd say you'd be alright. If you really want some safety during a solo, and you have redemp complete, use it on the dragon and daisy. It'll heal her up nice and good, and that burn damage makes the dragon slightly faster to take. But yeah, just playing him as you would a support who just so happens to free camps tends to be an alright way to play him. His early game is slow if the enemy doesn't know what Ivern does, and tense if they do(as they'll watch you good), so I can understand the worry of him getting boring. The only time I've ever regretted getting him though was when a game went south because we lacked the damage to do much.
hoganftw (NA)
: Kled's Mount Mechanic is pretty tilting.
It's tilting how I decided to try and 1 v 1 Kled at the one time KLED IS GOING TO GO ALL IN instead of playing it smart and kiting him to deal damage, or calling in my jungler to help. Kled's entire shtick is the fact that once you knock him off of Skaarl, he's going to try and kill you so he can get her back. Seriously. It's why he's a blast, instead of running like a wimp you just go in harder, break out the pocket pistol and show them trespassers why they should stay off yer land. I'm being completely serious, it's your fault that he's getting Skaarl back, because you aren't trying to play around it. The biggest advantage you get is the fact that he only moves fast when going towards you, and he can't use his E or Ult. Other than that, you are still fighting a crazy homicidal yordle who's gonna use your corpse as food for Skaarl.
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CaptainSeto

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