F3BR3 (NA)
: "The key change is shifting phantom hit from every second hit to every third hit" What about making those changes ONLY for ranged champions? That would fix a lot of problems.
I don't see how that solves the problem at all. The problem is that some champions have absurd synergy with phantom hit and can't really be balanced. Master Yi especially gets an incredible powerspike from this item.
: Updating our discounts for 2019
These items will be on sale for 50% off?
GigglesO (NA)
: Just hammering things doesn't make it work though. If I have less tools than I can't do what I need compared to those that have more tools.
Not true. Continuing the metaphor, Garen has a bigger, heavier mallet than Irelia that can mash things that her mallet is too small and weak for.
: "Games Change... Adapt or Leave."
I've never heard this one.
GigglesO (NA)
: Yea it is, the more tools at your disposal the less you have to think about what you are doing. The more value you get out of one skill the easier it is to use as well.
No. If you only have a mallet, then you'll just hammer everything because that's all a mallet is good for. No thought goes into it. If you have 5 different tools though, suddenly you have all kinds of possibilities what you can do, and you have to figure out the best process for the task at hand. If you continue to hammer everything, then you won't use the toolkit to its full potential. Look at an Irelia highlight reel and compare it to a Garen montage, and tell me which took more skill to make.
TehNACHO (NA)
: I believe they accidentally stumbled upon it with Yasuo, but started doing it very intentionally with Camille, iirc the dev posts. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2016/12/dev-on-evolving-the-laning-fighter/ The short version is, you can't have a "simple" melee fighter without them being broken when they're strong and useless when they're weak. So instead, throw as many factors into your melee fighter as you can to make them multi-dimensional, shave off the excess over time, and have a champion that is capable of doing a lot of things so they aren't nearly as binary as older generation melee carries. Problem is the design team and the balance team are two totally different teams, and what was planned to be intentional overcompensation by the design team turned into a nightmare by the balance team.
This pretty much nails it on the head. If you look at Pyke, there's purpose to all his abilities. * Enormous sustain so that he can trade in a 2v2 lane despite his disadvantages (squishy and melee). * Q and E have the CC they do because he's meant to be a support, and therefore needs utility. * He gets high base stats because that's all the health he's ever gonna have. You could give him worse base stats, but that's not really necessary as long as he's building squishy assassin items. * Mobility, stealth, and a resetting execute ultimate are so that he can fulfil an assassin gameplay fantasy. These are the features that distinguish him from other supports. Is it challenging to balance? Of course, he's an unusual champion that tries to be 2 somewhat conflicting things - an assassin and a support. But the payoff is that he adds variety to the champion pool and a fun alternative to conventional supports.
Blyted (NA)
: Nasus is a Juggernaut. Juggernauts aren't meant to have tank level durability (Garen I'm looking at you). The Juggernaut class is meant to do good damage if they can manage to get on top of a priority target (ignore the abomination that is Skarner). A well farmed Nasus will almost auto win a 1v2 mid game (depending on the match up) If the PBE buff goes live the Krug camp alone will be worth almost 40 stacks. 40 stacks. If you get Krugs and a scuttle you will be halfway to 100 stacks. Think about that.
>Nasus is a Juggernaut. Juggernauts aren't meant to have tank level durability Uuhh why not? Juggernauts and tanks are really similar, the only real difference is that one has tons of CC and the other has tons of damage.
AIQ (NA)
: What's the context behind nerfing Tiamat? Is their any plans to make changes to Shyvana and Chogath any time soon? Is there any plans to address the issue on an overall Damage nerf vs Defense buff? Or what Riots stance on the matter actually is? What is the reasoning of some as to why Akali should not be able to be attacked under tower?
>What's the context behind nerfing Tiamat? I'm going to take a wild guess: Irelia, Jax, and Camille.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
Any interest in improving Vi? She's been underwhelming for a couple of years now.
Zoli Ben (EUNE)
: Hey Meddler! Can I ask about the likeliness of more minor VGUs based on how Ezreal went down? Will Cho and Garen get Urgot ult indicator?
Don't those two already have execute indicators?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
Who are likely candidates for a minor VGU like Ezreal recently received?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 12
Could Master Yi get changes to Alpha Strike similar to Katarina's Shunpo adjustments? It's really common to be hit by spells as you're entering untargetability because of the cast time.
: Just remove the windwall and higher the dash cd, and he would be fine. He could get a counter for ranged attacks, but like firoa has one and not ridiculously overpowered with a 2 square kilometer hitbox and 10 s cd in lategame.
>Just remove the windwall and higher the dash cd, and he would be fine. No, he would be completely gutted and unplayable. Even if you buffed his base stats to compensate. And you wonder why Riot ignores the boards...
: This game would be better off without Yasuo in it
"No" - *The 1 million or so Yasuo mains*
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: December 7
Could Master Yi get similar changes to Katarina? It's very annoying to die to a spell that hit you during the cast time of Alpha Strike.
Wuks (NA)
: [CLOSED] We're Recruiting Moderators for the NA Boards!
How much freedom do mods here have to make their own decisions?
: Riot these quests are getting out of hand
The hard part of that mission is getting into a game without Neeko being banned.
: "Riot we really want to tone down damage"
Riot doesn't like it when champions like Galio are too good in pro play because then 90% of players can't enjoy playing the champion. So they made changes to make him better in soloqueue, and of course that means buffing his damage. You may not agree with it, but it's better for Galio in the long term if it means more players can have fun playing him.
Moody P (NA)
: Balancing around people who cant play well is absurd
That's a great plan and all, until millions of players start uninstalling because Garen and Master Yi are being pains in their asses.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 30
I'm curious about melee attack ranges. Feralpony did some explorations years ago, which lead to range buffs for Trundle and a few juggernauts having their range lowered from 200 to 175 on patch 5.23. Fast forward and now we have Irelia with 200 range, very high for a melee. I'm curious what you think of that, namely whether that consumes a lot of her power budget or if it doesn't matter because Q places her on top of opponents anyway. I'd like to know if it's possible that other champions like Master Yi and Tryndamere could have their attack ranges buffed up from 125, since they have very long weapons, or if you think that would be too much of a buff to them.
: Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days
>Are you finding good use cases for each new or reworked item? Essence Reaver has become a very niche item that synergizes with only one or two marksmen. The idea was exciting, but underwhelming in practice.
: So here's the thing: the reason why she has higher ability downtime, why her passive requires (and gives) attack speed and she's incentivized to build it, why she has her E, and most notably of all, why she only has a way into the fight, and not out like other assassins: Diana wasn't intended to be an assassin. She was/is an early attempt at making an AP fighter champion, someone like a Jarvan or Pantheon. She is also the core example of why in the current state of the game, such a design just doesn't work, and won't, without significant systemic changes to how large core game mechanics function. Diana can't function as a bruiser style champion. Why? Because she needs AP. But then, why build just a bit of AP to get you *some* power, when you could build more, and have one-shot power? So what if you're a suicide bomber, you get the job done. But then that creates a toxic play pattern to go against, where she can near point and click delete squishies from the game. So Riot has to nerf her ratios, make it so that she doesn't get as much from building AP. But then, her kit just doesn't support being a tanky engager (unless you have like a fed Yasuo to combo with your E), so she falls out of the game almost completely, which leads to Riot needing to buff her. Repeat ad infinitum.
Diana could easily be reworked to be a good AP bruiser with some adjustments to her numbers. Raise base damage, lower AP ratios, lower cooldowns, health scaling on her shield, etc. It's just that I don't think most Diana players want her to become a bruiser at this point.
: Identifying Diana's kit's problems
What if basic attacks lowered the cooldown of Q by 1 second? Or 0.5? That would possibly solve the lategame cooldowns problem.
: The only reason he is so strong low elo is that he kills people quickly and typically team comps don't have enough cc/ game knowledge to deal with him. Like with most squishy auto attack based champions they're easily countered by high burst and CC. It's incredibly easy to play around him in pro/high elo play. The changes you propose destroy his power farm -> late carry game plan, and as a game design decision that's completely ridiculous. It removes all of his identity and would make yi a new shyvana skin. If you want to give him more control in fights you would need to nerd his damage pretty heavily. Jungle champions don't worry about mana the way lane champions do because of the jungle item. I'd have to see the E in game to see how it works but it seems too strong, with full build. Basically useless into 4+ items. And last of all the R change is just another buff, the time limit maximum is almost entirely irrelevant.
>The only reason he is so strong low elo is that he kills people quickly and typically team comps don't have enough cc/ game knowledge to deal with him. Like with most squishy auto attack based champions they're easily countered by high burst and CC. It's incredibly easy to play around him in pro/high elo play. There are *multiple* reasons why he is strong in low elo and weak in low elo. He's easy to play, heavily punishes uncoordinated teams, and he plays very linearly. >The changes you propose destroy his power farm -> late carry game plan, and as a game design decision that's completely ridiculous. It removes all of his identity and would make yi a new shyvana skin. If you want to give him more control in fights you would need to nerd his damage pretty heavily. Jungle champions don't worry about mana the way lane champions do because of the jungle item. Explain to me how my rework ruins his ability to farm and carry lategame. >I'd have to see the E in game to see how it works but it seems too strong, with full build. Basically useless into 4+ items. Master Yi interacts with enemy champions only in short bursts anyway, so I don't see any problem with having on-hit damage 100% of the time. >And last of all the R change is just another buff, the time limit maximum is almost entirely irrelevant. Small buffs. Not really going to break him.
Rioter Comments
: Love / Hate Relationships: Making Wukong less binary.
I [tried my hand at reworking him.](https://www.reddit.com/r/KadexePublic/comments/9r4gpe/wukong_rework/) I think he has a lot of untapped potential to be a fun and dynamic champion.
Dr Dog (NA)
: remember before yasuo was a thing
I remember when people complained about Riven, and that she had "no counterplay when mastered."
: > [{quoted}](name=Carnicore,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vm5pxVT2,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-11-14T01:30:13.613+0000) > > "Riot please buff Sejuani, she's so weak in soloqueue" > > *Riot reworks Sejuani to make her balanceable for both soloqueue and professional play* > > "Riot please stop buffing tanks to do so much damage" > > Make up your minds, guys. Because of competitive play, Sejuani can't be balanced unless her damage is ridiculously low. Taking away some utility and giving her damage means she can be good in soloqueue without being S tier in LCS. Meddler made this very clear in his post explaining the changes. No one asked for tanks to be made into overblown damage dealers, chances are you didnt even bother to read the changes and are doing the standard apologist thing to be contrarian.
I don't understand what you're trying to say. Do you want tanks to be decent damage threats? Or do you want them to be underpowered? Those are your choices. I'm not being contrarian, I just read what Meddler said about the tank changes.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 14
It probably won't happen, but it would be nice if Project Master Yi had 3 different running animations just like his other skins do.
: Riot had the ability to turn things around with preseason
"Riot please buff Sejuani, she's so weak in soloqueue" *Riot reworks Sejuani to make her balanceable for both soloqueue and professional play* "Riot please stop buffing tanks to do so much damage" Make up your minds, guys. Because of competitive play, Sejuani can't be balanced unless her damage is ridiculously low. Taking away some utility and giving her damage means she can be good in soloqueue without being S tier in LCS. Meddler made this very clear in his post explaining the changes.
: The whole sorcery tree is shit
Sorcery is probably the best of the 5 for minor runes.
: Does anyone else feel like Riot doesn't know how to handle Tanks anymore?
I don't really care how much damage tanks or fighters are doing as long as they're, y'know, balanced. Tanks are never going to do insignificant damage, and fighters are always going to need a lot of mobility to be relevant against ranged champions.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 9
You talked about how you make champions better in soloqueue and worse in competitive. Would you be interested in doing the reverse for champions like Master Yi, Katarina, etc.?
Shahamut (NA)
: Get rid of the on-hit damage and the phantom hit. Just let it be a hybrid fighter item.
Nah. There's no point to hybrid items. Everyone buys this item for the phantom hit.
: aren't these reworks going against what you guys have previously aimed at? To make champions more individual and different. If you remove all her CC sejuani is just a ball of stats that might or might not be a better ball of stats than gragas or amumu or whatever similar champ exists. I thought having strong emphasis on the active part of champions kits were kind of the goal to differentiate them from one another. But this post makes it sound like you guys are trying to remove playstyle power and "garenfy" them more so they get better at low elo. I hope I am wrong, but until I get an explanation its unfortunately how I see it.
Sometimes, being different just isn't balanced. Compromises have to be made.
: Jinxylord made Jinx. You're fucked. Kayle will be cool as a concept, and shit as a character.
Jinx has been a good-to-great soloqueue champion in almost every patch since her release.
: Despite this change, it won't fix what's really wrong with him. His conflict between tank, support and mage. It was a problem before his rework and it is a problem now because his current state attempts to please by delivering a bit of both, but will never be as good as a pure tank or pure mage. He has tools from each one, but all of them are handicapped by not being as strong as they could be. The best change, would be to finally pick a direction and go. Perhaps poll every galio player worldwide, then take percentages (so larger populations don't dominate the numbers) to dictate where to go.
I think he's pretty close to a state where tank and AP builds are both viable and balanced. He might get light changes in a subsequent patch to adjust his base damage and scalings to do this.
Moody P (NA)
: Sejuani used to have a permaslow now she doesn't even have a slow in her basic spells
She still gets a stun and a knockup. And it's not like there aren't a million items that slow enemies.
Rioter Comments
: Thoughts on Vi? Often times when it comes to buffing her you guys just drop the CD of her ult and call it good when I feel she could use help in other places Also any crit marksmen you still see as struggling? I think people say Cait is one of them that hasnt quite recovered from the item changes
It'd be nice if her Blast Shield was refreshed when she casts her ult. Would help her survivability a lot.
Vekkna (NA)
: Thought about that, but then I remembered the season 6 plot twist/watercooler moment of the clutch MF support counterpick to Zyra support. They didn't buff up Zyra to add diversity in the Ardent meta of season 7. Then they nerfed her out of pro play *entirely* for all of season 8, despite the utter drudgery of Braum/Ali/Thresh dominating support picks and having no real counter. And her play rate peaked at like 5% in solo queue. So it's clearly a deliberate choice to pick some champs for Worlds and not others. Based on that example, it doesn't seem to have anything to do with interesting viewing, spicing up an incredibly bland role, or impact to solo queue. Must be something else or some other combination of factors.
Riot probably expected Zyra to warp the meta dramatically if they buffed her. They don't want huge meta shakeups in the patches leading up to Worlds.
Moody P (NA)
: Sejuani - Please, god, not like this
It looks pretty straightforward, buffing her numbers while stripping away some utility. These changes should make her good in soloqueue again but less dominant in competitive.
Meddler (NA)
: He's fairly high on our list of VGU candidates. Not absolute top of the list, but in the top tier.
Absolute top must be Mordekaiser, of course.
Vekkna (NA)
: Question about pro balance: Before World's this year, you explained a set of buffs (Pyke, Darius, Kha) as a diversity push for a group of champs that sort of organically ended up on the edge of viability. That makes sense. But if you look at Lee, those sorts of buffs are very much inorganic an clearly timed to guarantee his spot in esports events. Like, you can't really deny that there are certain champs that are consistently balanced *into* pro/World's (Lee, Gragas) and others that are balanced *out* of pro/World's (Nidalee, Zyra). When it comes to artificial selection for pro play, how do you decide which champs will be included or excluded?
I'm just spitballing here, but they probably try to help champions that are exciting to watch but not meta-defining like Azir or Kalista. At the same time, they try not to overbuff them to the point of making them pick/ban in soloqueue.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Ban Rate shows something is unhealthy for the game/champ, not how powerful they are.
It varies. You've got some assassins and skirmishers that are banned if they get popular, like Zed and Yasuo, but in most cases people just ban whatever they feel is too strong.
: Season 8 was the worst jungling year for anybody that didn't play Graves
I don't think it was that bad. Same as any other year, really.
: Well boards were always plagued by hardcore zealot fanboys. Npwadays is more dinstinctive since more more normal boards poster left this game. I had a chat with one fanboy who told me this game is greatly balanced and that RITO should remove gamepaly boards.lol
Gameplay has always been populated by people who are angry about something and want to complain to Riot.
: This game has been dumbed down so hard it's disgusting
"The game is dumbed down" "Here are a bunch of arguments completely unrelated to the game's complexity" Honestly, it's sad that mods don't remove these rant posts with zero evidence.
: that would be utterly horrible on AP bruisers that aren't ekko. all AP bruisers are ability based and almost never autoattack.
Literally Singed is the only one that doesn't autoattack.
: how the fuck would that even work lmao
Item with on-hit AoE magic damage scaling with health. And with AP instead of AD.
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Carnicore

Level 136 (NA)
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