: Because Riot, the boards, and Mods only interested in dealing with BLATANT verbal toxicity. I've said for 2+ seasons now that they need to deal with griefing players, trolls, intentional feeders (hard and soft), and less blatant verbal toxicity. All I get is hate, bs excuses, and toxicity. Until the boards, players, and Mods wake up and realize how toxic it is to NOT address this stuff and force Riot to react, we'll always have sad true stories like what you are describing. I've made over a dozen posts about this issue, cited plenty of actual gameplay examples, and explained how it's not actually hard to tell if someone really is either hella boosted or inting vs if they're having a bad game. But sadly everyone seems like they'd rather keep protecting griefers, trolls, and hella boosted players than fix the problem. Because somehow even though you very clearly explain the differnce... you might ban, demote, or otherwise punish the adc that goes 1/6/0 in lane while being 4 man camped with no help from team in addition to going after the toplaner that 1v2 keeps running it down lane without trying to win the fight but currently gets excused because omg he auto'd the enemy once so we can't know he's inting. Uhm... you can tell the difference very easily - and I've explained that many times. Still people don't listen. They just see someone mention inting or punish and bam. You're wrong lalala, can't hear what you're saying, you're still wrong, I don't care how logical and valid your argument, lalala can't hear you. So freaking dumb and annoying of them.
Pretty much. The problem is that most of them do it as well, especially when they are raging. Thus they dont want that behavior punished. Or they try to claim "oh. That never actually happens." Or my favorite "well... STATISTICALLY the enemy team is more likely to have the inter." They fail to understand that the math only works that way because YOU are on YOUR team, thus lowering the odds for your team. A mix of bad math, plus bad attitude players, and you get a community that "doesn't care."
: certain skins give you advantages
This has been a well known fact for years. Some skins make their particles hard to see, others actually actively buff hitboxes.
: >You complained about the Tank Metas and Enchanter Metas. Who is "you?" Are you part of "you," or are you referring to numerous individuals that may or may not have differing opinions with one another? You can't pretend you're not one of us *and* paint us like some kind of hivemind at the same time.
Actually... I can. Just because a singular "you" did not personally complain previously, the collective, understood, plural 'You' has been complaining for almost four years. I know this by making a yearly post about the rise of both true damage and the damage creep dangers... and promptly watching those posts get downvoted into oblivion. People have explained to me, for four years, how I had no idea how the game worked - or that RIOT would never allow something to happen... despite being proven right months after the posts. Every time. I've never been popular on the boards. I never will be. The boards are a collective that I've never seen 'eye to eye' with concerning what the outcome of various items, nerfs/buffs, or patches will bring. Incidentally I've also watched changes to MOBAs since long before the first DotA Allstars map came into existence, back in the long long ago... the beforetimes in WC3. I've watchd Metas rise and fall in MOBAs for almost two decades now, and looking a year or more ahead is not exactly hard. I'd figured out how to see the shifts of nerfs and buffs back in Aeons of Strife. Let alone the opaque, fairly predictable philosophy of how RIOT does things today. Therefore... yes. The "you" is a collective "you."
: Thank You Riot & Thank You League
... fair enough. Despite my criticisms of the current design philosophy, I've been here since I got a random email saying that the makers of my favorite DOTA map were making a game, and I will likely be here until they close the doors one day. I may take breaks, some have lasted a year or more, but I always find my way back.
: i saw this coming years ago. which is why i always warned everyone who were complaining about tanks. {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
Right? The oldest I could find me explaining the dangers of constantly begging for damage goes back into the archived boards 1.0 lol. People never listened, but hey. They are now that it's in their faces.
Lovelle (NA)
: The problem is that Riot directly buffs tanks instead of buffing pure defensive itemization and runes, like they should. Feel like a broken record at this point. There are a ton of %based damage increases through runes, yet there is no %damage reduction. Why? Ranged champions and super mobile melees get way too much leeway in this game when it comes to balancing. Since being ranged is a natural advantage, melees should always be prioritized, especially if they have limited mobility. Most other companies understand this, yet Riot just doesn't get it.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: It's weird, because this meta feels like S3, it's just not as fun as you'd think it would be. Sure I can blow up anyone, but anyone can blow me up too. It literally comes down to who bursts 1st, and after you blow your load you get someone elses load in your face. The thing is though, no one will ever be happy until the meta fits them the best, I'd rather we all be in the same state, oh fuck tanks are tanky, better protect the AD so he can shred him. Meanwhile when the chances arrives I'mma blow their AD up. Tanks absorb Magic damage, AD's slowly shred tanks, Mages blow ADs up. It's the circle of life. Bruisers and Assassins can still get in on the mix, but to me, the best metas are Tank/Fighter - Fighter/Tank - Mage/Assassin - Marksman - Enchanter/Tank. People will say the best Marksman will win but that simply isn't true, it's the best team that wins..
See? Your original comment was a great one, and I'd have replied to IT, but I haven't been paying attention to this thread. Basically... yeah. Each class should have it's counter class, and the only thing that is supposed to be able to mitigate all the burst are the tanks. Right now, however, they are either bursty themselves, or blatantly useless. There are no sustain classes right now, it's either burst or be bursted.
: Depends on which tank meta, S4-S5 was pretty good as it had good diversity for every lane. The tanks at the start of S8 with their interaction with runes and what not? I'll pass. You don't understand how oppressive they were, it's not that bruisers were unviable because they had a slightly tougher time popping off, it was because tanks were literally choking the fuck out of them even in early trades as well as scaling the fuck out of them. You could not play a bruiser top lane in the early stages of S8, either you met an abusive ranged top laner or you met a tank that was both an unstoppable force as well as an immovable object. I don't mind tanks tanking but fuck me, they should not be doing a billion damage unless they sacrifice something in their kit and show some weakness. With the current state of the game, I wish we could just revert back to no keystones/reforged runes and tone damage down.
> [{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gAuyGgV6,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-01-16T02:39:10.457+0000) > > I was there for the actual Tank Metas. > > - 1.0, where a team of 5 tanks was more viable than anything else. > - Meta Golem, where the tank could go 1v5, regularly, and win. > - Cinderhulk, where even laners were running Smite just for the jungle items, and Cinderhulk was just the BEST. > > The rest are just people complaining about one or two tank champions, and declaring it a tank meta. That said, I fully agree. A tank killing someone should take TIME. Also should involve you poorly failing to get away from them.
: Fear of Tank Metas vs What We Have Now
WTF happened here? Go to bed, go to work, get home and glance at the boards and jesus...
Saezio (EUNE)
: Can I have some tips on how you last 0.28? my best so far is 0.17
Despite being garbage at playing most roles outside Top or Support, I rarely get hit by skillshots. All I've got. Learn the range and hitbox of all skills. A Zed/Kha/Rengar still delete me instantly.
: Omg tank meta {{champion:24}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:61}} {{champion:201}} {{champion:51}} vs {{champion:122}} {{champion:111}} {{champion:45}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:222}}
I was there for the actual Tank Metas. - 1.0, where a team of 5 tanks was more viable than anything else. - Meta Golem, where the tank could go 1v5, regularly, and win. - Cinderhulk, where even laners were running Smite just for the jungle items, and Cinderhulk was just the BEST. The rest are just people complaining about one or two tank champions, and declaring it a tank meta.
: >Pick one, or shut up. You can't just want your pet role to feel better, without having a challenge from the other roles. That's what a MOBA is all about. Every champion should be challenging to deal with in it's own right. Well, see, this would work if League of Legends was played by exactly one person. But it's not. League of Legends is home to a bajillion different all people who have drastically different versions of the "proper" way League should be played. * You have Johnny Casual, who thinks Riot should cater to everyone Sub-gold and only balance around them. Assassins should also not exist. * You have TSM Kelly, who is a pro player that thinks the game should only be balanced around DIamond 1+. Assassins need buffs btw. * You have Yosef ARAM, who only plays aram. That's his gimmick. Like that's all he does. Assassins are trash on ARAM lul. * You have Lena Lore, who plays for the story and doesn't give two shits about the game. Assassins have deep lore. Each one has their own ideal meta and each one will come to the boards to voice their discontent when things are bad in their PoV. The only people who are always on are usually the hyper dedicated who love league regardless of its state or those that quit years ago and take every new complaint as a fresh sign that the game is finally dying for the 8th time in its lifespan. (But THIS time it's real).
This is true. Though I must admit I've never understood the people who have quit playing, but STILL come to the boards. The times I've spent 6mo or a year away, I also didn't come to the boards. Didn't make sense to bother myself with something that I wasn't even paying attention to. That said, I WAS mostly talking to the average board member, more than the occasional pokers.
: Try playing an assassin in an enchanter meta, you cant even kill the support with an entire burst rotation.
I'm with you on this one. The shield item meta was boring even for support players.
: Or C, nerf whats strong without making tanks meta? How about that?
Xäyąh (NA)
: This is a supreme false dilemma. There are many other outcomes apart from the ones you presented. Ill list a few. 1. Tanks are able to threaten assassins enough to protect their ally/allies from a face roll assassin dive (I am not saying assassins are face roll characters). But not be absolute burst machines despite their bulk. 2. Enchanters provide the utility required to be a worthy pick for the team, yet not overbearing as to entirely wall out opponents. 4. Mages gain anti-tank itemization additions allowing characters like Brand to threaten not only squishies but tanks as well. For a post complaining about whiners, you sure are whining alot yourself. Instead of having such a narrow mindset assuming the worst and most extreme cases, mayhaps you should consider alternative outcomes which could prove beneficial instead of shutting out ideas entirely.
I think you missed the entire fundamental backing of the fact the post is discussing what has already, objectively, happened. I personally don't care one way or the other. The Burst meta is easy because I can dodge their bullshit, and capitalize on the fact players are forgetting how to actually follow through or conserve. The tank Metas were easy because I'm a support player. So. Therefore... what whining? I advocate for all classes, and roles, being balanced, and that's whining? All of your points are ideal, and in line with the post's premise... and then you lost it there at the end.
Ceazaru (NA)
: Maybe we can find a middle ground and not just constantly go from one extreme to another.
: This is a dumb question to ask on the boards lol because the people that enjoy this meta are for the majority not on the boards while those who hate aka: tanks and enchanters are massing up in the boards to circle jerk on every post so i don't even need to read the comments of this post to see that almost everyone wants the tank meta. Also i know that when its a tank meta assassin's and bruisers will crowd up the boards to begin their own circlejerk
That's rather the point, yeah.
: As someone who plays a burst mage i really hate the tank meta however this assassin meta we have now is far worse. every game is 2-3 Assassin with the game being over by the 10m mark.
Right? At least you can kite, or wear them down, and let the fighters and ADCs take them down. Better than disappearing instantly to something so mobile you might get a spell off at.
Moody P (NA)
: why don't you just make damage kits not so 1 dimensional in their function and actually offer defensive bonuses themselves like other MOBAs already figured out years ago and then we can phase out these shitty enchanter/tank designs entirely for a proper skill game
Ahhh... PUGB and Fortnite are great Deathmatch games.
: A major issue effecting the game is that riot always take the easy route rather than rolling up the sleeves and doing some serious balance changes during the preseason or midseason. case and point {{item:3076}} {{item:3075}} rather than dealing with ADC lifestealing which was completely broken at the time they reworked these items and it completely fucked toplane AA reliant bruisers which in turn lead to conqueror being added to the game
Indeed... and {{item:3153}} was one of the ways I was talking about that players "needed to deal with tanks" instead of RIOT actually fixing the tank items they had broken at the time. Which fed into every ADC grabbing one since it's effective against everybody. Then they "fixed" {{item:3075}} to try to counterbalance it... and broke more. My theory is that their item group is utter shit.
Alzon (NA)
: By the gamers, for the gamers.
Yeahhhhhh... what they mean by that now days, since Icefrog, Morello, Guinsoo, Pendragon, and all the rest were forced out by Tencent, is this: "We sometimes play our own game, therefore we are gamers, and the gamers we do this for are us."
Alzon (NA)
: Delete runes to solve everything
It will... never... happen. Doesn't matter how much people complain, it's RIOT's pet project.
Rioter Comments
: Lol this item is absurd. Already more than 100% gold efficient with just the AP. Lol dots and AoE get full benefit. This would actually be the most absurdly broken item in the game.
Let me introduce you to {{item:3131}}
Terumie (NA)
: Is Shen really a ninja?
Shen USED to be far more ninja-like until his rework.
: Bring back Force of Nature
And Atmas. Ditch Steraks.
: Thoughts On The Current Ranked System & Some Suggested Changes
The fun part is this: At current I am setting the MMR of an alt for ranked for S9. This alt only ever played ARAM for a couple years. Its currently in matches with Gold (only about 25 ranked games played total.). Now then. Gold team, Gold enemy team.... rank? Iron 1. What happens every 3rd game or so? Due to the tier requirements, it gets tossed in to bronze games, and I get to carry a 1v9 or lose. Granted the LP loss is marginal (3-4LP lost), the question remains: Why am I playing with Gold - 4 out of 5 games, but the 5th is with Unranked or Bronze, merely due to the fact it put me in Iron 4 after placements? Therefore: 1. Why is the account not simply Gold? It would solve the problem. 2. Why not just make it play with Iron and Bronze? That's the tier it claims it should be.
mosaickle (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XYjTGFEm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-12T07:45:26.808+0000) > > Poorly. It works Poorly. You didn't bother to read the post did you
I did. Basically if you've gotten your role in the last game, you may randomly be thrown into the jungle no matter WHAT you main.
mosaickle (OCE)
: How exactly does autofill work?
: Yeah I'm not gonna pick a champ I don't play like Jayce in ranked in an attempt to gimp the Sylas, I'll just end up feeding.
Exactly. Almost no one will.
Karfuss (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m19A2Ekt,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-11T07:02:25.157+0000) > > "If we over load certain items, they become things that the player MUST buy. Thus eliminating player choice, and champion diversity. We try to avoid this." > > -SmashGizmo, RIOT QA, 2011 Irony being that back when that was said, mages had more choice than they ever. There's a quote of Ghostcrawler saying that "powercreeping" is something that must be avoided at all costs, and that champions who are out of line should be nerfed before itemization, when he first joined Riot. Would love to dig that up, given the ghastly state of the game, but it's lost to the old forum archives now.
You can still google crawl the old archives, but you need specific summoner names and dates. I've changed my various account names so many times it's the only way to find my own posts to reference them lol.
Mimr (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CapnMorganFr3man,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eoLTKxh2,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-01-11T15:11:29.266+0000) > > It's not really about learning what he can do when we already know his core concept is EXTREMELY flawed. Giving one champion access to over 140 abilities is going to make for ridiculously high inconsistency, which is going to be a balancing nightmare. To make up for this he needs to be either very self sufficient without his ultimate counting for the times whatever ultimates he steals will be trash, OR he has to be nerfed into the ground accounting for the three or four ultimates he can use which synergize with his kit way too well. There really can't ever be a middle ground with a champion like this, he either has to be banned every game or made unplayable. Thing is, if the enemy has a Sylas you can make him as strong or weak as you like. Enemy team firstpicks Sylas? Don't pick Malphite or Sejuani or some other champion with a very powerful R into him. Pick Udyr or Corki or something and he's a piece of cake. The match starts at champ select, not when you spawn at your fountain. Sylas, more than most champions, takes macro- strategy to play against instead of TROLOLOL 1 MILLION DASHES OUTPLAYZ. I thought that most people around here wanted more of that in the game?
This is very true. The only problem I see is that the champion pool is so dwindled that he will always have something useful to snag.
: I'M STRUGGLING TO GET BETTER AT THIS GAME
At a glance: - You've a tendency to pop skills early, and then attempt to disengage immediately after. - You need to work on gauging range. - You need to work on using more than one skill per rotation... your E on Cait can be immediately followed by a Headshot - aka you can use it aggressively while still maintaining range. Landing skills is only the first half the battle, you have to be able to follow up on them.
: Problem was it was entirely balanced around them. So spell vamp was kept super weak cuz that was appropriate for the champs that actually used it. The end result was spell vamp on anyone other than akali/vlad/morde was just useless. So they opted to remove it and just put more sustain into those champs' kits.
Right. I was just saying that there -was- part of hextech items that used to have Spellvamp. Also Spellvamp on Morgana was nice, too, since it stacked with her passive SV.
: Learning Mid
Syndra in the current climate? Practice getting fast and accurate with your E, or the assassins will eat your lunch.
: It's really hard to duel with Ornn at early levels.
If he goes top, run: {{champion:202}} {{champion:17}} {{champion:69}} Etc and poke him down.
: udyr is not fine to play against
_laughs in {{item:4402}} _ He used to be wayyyyyy worse, to play Devil's advocate.
macspam (NA)
: This is only for burst mages, DoT mages like brand, zyra. Cassiopeia., malzahar. Rumble, etc,build liandrys and rylais. I do agree that itemization is way, way too static, though. Moving power to the hextech items? I dunno, those are still cost effective. Hextech GLP is more cost effective than ludens if you use the active, 400 cheaper for only 10 less AP. I suppose they could buff protobelt, but then the cost would need to be increased (its only 2500 right now). What I would really love to see is a spell vamp item that builds into gunblade (or, ideally. Another item that doesnt give AD). right now the only other sources of spell vamp are the Eternity Passive and ravenous hunter, which makes it quite hard to fit into builds.
Ahhh Hextech Revolver used to have Spell Vamp. People whined because things like Morde and Akali rushed it.
: Problem with mages: 1 build path
"If we over load certain items, they become things that the player MUST buy. Thus eliminating player choice, and champion diversity. We try to avoid this." -SmashGizmo, RIOT QA, 2011
Rioter Comments
KnifeCat (OCE)
: Sylas might be the biggest balance nightmare in the history of League
Wait until he basically AP Pantheon Ults a team fight, and comes out swinging..
: > [{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iN6nvhth,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-10T15:37:09.156+0000) > > AP Ezreal isn't a duelist. Also - Leona. AP Ezreal's entire concept is blowing a squishy into oblivion with a W+E, it doesn't work on tanks. then how come tanks get bursted into oblivion if the forums are to be believed? I just don't get it also shows how obnoxious it is when you face a enemy you cannot kill, I couldn't get into the teamfighting because leona was chasing me and I couldn't do anything to her
It's the assassins and things like Brand. The assassins currently shave armor by an average of 50, while having natural lethality, then get front loaded burst added to their items.
ThePikol (EUNE)
: Are you sure? League Wiki says that bounced attacks don't apply on-hit effects (like autos do) but there's nothing that they are still considered an autos
They only don't apply on hit because of AS Shred Sivir. When they did a Rageblade, Malady and Wits End ended the game.
: people say that but I had a leona fight me 1 vs 1 on nexus blitz and I was AP ezreal and I had to run away as I couldn't kill her, though I suppose that may be due to force of nature on nexus blitz
AP Ezreal isn't a duelist. Also - Leona. AP Ezreal's entire concept is blowing a squishy into oblivion with a W+E, it doesn't work on tanks.
: Remember when True Damage used to be a luxury damage type?
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EEJx4tdQ-a-brief-history-on-true-damage-where-the-hell-is-morello Good luck.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cats Are Food,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dWqegWbK,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2019-01-06T17:20:55.397+0000) > > Did you just say "There was always true damage?" For 4 years there were 4 champions in total that had true damage of any kind, and it did not scale at all. Not sure what you're driving at as my statement remains correct. But anyway there were more than 4 champions with true damage for most of League's lifetime. This isn't a new argument. People have been whining about the chief perpetrator {{champion:67}} since the beginning of time.
Have an upvote, because you don't deserve whoever downvoted you. That said, this is true. Guinsoo was supposed to rework the TD out of her (can find the old post from the archived boards), however he was let go before that could happen. Initially the idea was that she was the hero to end the first tank meta, and people have shrieked about her since. I've long gotten used to her, though would still prefer her True Damage removed for obvious reasons. People will -always- complain about True Damage, especially as it becomes more prevalent. A couple of years ago I posted (still listed in my discussions) a history on True Damage, and a lot of the Dev notes as to why it was a poor mechanic, especially if it ever become more common than it ever was. All I am saying. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EEJx4tdQ-a-brief-history-on-true-damage-where-the-hell-is-morello And with that I am off the boards for the next 8 months or so.
: The good ole days...what rubbish. Just as many "issues" with the game back then and just as many people complaining. There was never a good ole days. There was always True Damage and people have always whined about it. Take off the rose tinted glasses and stop living in this fantasy world that never existed.
Did you just say "There was always true damage?" For 4 years there were 4 champions in total that had true damage of any kind, and it did not scale at all. Yes, people complained about them, for the exact same reasons RIOT Devs kept trying to figure out how to REMOVE their true damage, because it was, and I quote, "A bad mechanic."
Kazekiba (NA)
: Oh I wasn't saying OP was lying or anything, I'm saying Darius' Passive + Conqueror at level 6 or so gives him around 55 bonus AD. Like, that's literally what the abilities do, given that taking True Damage from Darius' ult means youre at full bleed stacks and Darius' Noxian Might would activate. 55 AD is _A LOT_, especially at such an early point in the game, and with Darius' ratios.
Indeed, it's 5 1/2 longswords. Just for starters. It's a 1,900 gold value of stats, passively, just for existing and doing what you normally do anyway.
: "The great days of League, where all matches were fun" Say what you want about the game, riot, or just the balance of league, this phrase is nothing but nostalgic bullshit aimed to get people who also feel this nostalgic bullshit to mindlessly agree and not to productively further a conversation. But what do you expect LOL this is the community boards : ^)
"The game used to be good because of X" "Yeah well I never saw that shit, and it sucked because I saw vids, I like the game now because it's all I know!"
LTK KoRo (EUW)
: cut the crap, during enchanters reign bullshit like lulu shield had 6 secs duration with 5.5 sec CD. Don't act like they didn't deserve the nerfs. Also during the ardent meta narrative was: "But we can't kill the ADC at all".
So for 8 months Enchanters needed to be utterly destroyed for the rest of eternity?
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Cats Are Food

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