GreenKnight (EUNE)
: Dogs, obviously. At least none of them got a full rework...
Opop (EUW)
: Lore inconsistency list
One thing that kinda bugs me is in Jhin's short story: Akali is implied to be the one accompanying Shen when he meets with Zed, but doesn't that screw up things timeline-wise after the Akali update?
l MrD l (NA)
: Can i get some confirmation/clarification on kayle and morganas lore?
They're basically lawful good vs. neutral/chaotic good.
Ataraxas (NA)
: Forcing lore not to have and good and evil is just stupid
Seems to me more like it's less that and they're just moving away from "this faction is all good/bad guys now" which is a welcome change for creativity all around. Demacia isn't nearly all bad ({{champion:59}} {{champion:99}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:78}} {{champion:3}}) and Kayle has IIRC _always_ been depicted as someone whose morality runs grey. Noxus is _still_ mostly bad guys, Zaun and Piltover have a little of both, but the bad guys are clearly shown to be bad, etc. What's moralistic about characters like Vlad, Singed, and Jhin?
Phhase (NA)
: What's with Riot and humanizing characters?
Urgot's always been fairly humanized, and if anything his character is actually _less_ dark now that he's not a shambling mockery of life forced to continue a miserable, painful existence. Also, since when has Kayle been _nice_? Hasn't her unyielding ideology _always_ been the source of her conflict with Morgana?
dalphy08 (NA)
: I don't know why they have to depict female soldiers as being low-classed. No real Sorceror of the time would have worn such skimpy cheap clothing. You see Elrond and Legolas wear longer-than-waist length upper body clothing.
> [{quoted}](name=dalphy08,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=VmJpEGAK,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-02-20T04:17:38.985+0000) > No real Sorceror of the time would have worn such skimpy cheap clothing. You see Elrond and Legolas wear longer-than-waist length upper body clothing. > No real Sorceror of the time >real friend i hate to break it to you but
: I'm going to be that guy and ask why did Riot change Volibear so severely? I remember people were worried about him being a villain when Ornn came out. We were told (by players but maybe rioters?) that was one perspective. How can Volibear be portrayed as a heroic character?
The Volibear is the power of the storm, nature's rage against all who would restrain it. It is the willpower that fuels us when the winter growls with cold hunger. It is the energy that courses through all living beings, driving them ever forward. The Volibear is man and beast and the line between, and to understand him is to understand what we all are in the eye of the storm. ... Is what I'd imagine a Voli worshipper would say.
: Riot writers, what do you have against the "usual" good guys?
I mean, the classical depiction of angels often depicts them as inhuman and somewhat alien even in morality, and demons closer to mortals. I understand that's perhaps the entire point of works such as Paradise Lost and the like. Riot's really not flipping anything that hasn't been flipped long before.
Rioter Comments
Jikker (NA)
: I hope that they explain in lore because it doesn't seem like she's a "fallen" angel anymore -- two sisters from the aspect of justice that only the guilty have to fear. That seems a bit weird like they're almost the same goal but different methods. If she did lose her "upper" wings, I want that explanation otherwise it seems a weird/poor design choice.
I think there will be an attempt to justify it in-lore, given their conversation about Kayle flying vs. Morgana walking and all the talk about Morgana "binding" herself.
: No matter how much I try to like it kayle redesign is just horrible and ugly WHY IS THERE SO MUCH FUCKING GREEN.
... Where are you seeing green?
: [English] Kayle and Morgana trailer
So, looks like Kayle's helmet will either be a toggle or she'll lose it as part of her form change. Can't wait to see how Unmasked is going to be handled. I also love how they handled their power source. The other aspects are all rather solid concepts (even, ironically, change) but justice can mean wildly different things to different people.
: > [{quoted}](name=HalfTangible,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2019-02-10T18:54:46.329+0000) > > *shrug* > So did I. The idea that it might be saying she's a lesbian didn't even occur to me until someone on the boards brought it up. Given that Swain learns and reveals the most painful secrets, I thought that being afraid to lose her power over the House > being a lesbian. After all, folk on Runeterra seems to be rather chill about gay people, and I don't think that Riot will have the guts to add any complexity to that (like Ionia is very accepting, while Demacia condemns gay relationships as they're not the part of "perfect citizen" idea). After all, many aristocrats managed to have same-sex affairs while being in an official marriage and even siring offsprings to maintain their status and gain power. Getting a spouse for a practical purpose and not emotional was a common thing for nobility and they adjusted to it in their own way.
Not all of what Swain says are "painful secrets," some are idle observations, like his quotes towards Quinn, Poppy, and Kassadin.
: They know the lore isn't a part of the game anymore. What they are saying is that they lore is just as interesting, if not more so, than the actual game is.
Yeah, this. HT might also be confused because in one post I'm referring to LoL as a franchise, not simply as the game.
: I know, that odyssey lore made to sell skins was interesting. Is that the direction the lore team wants to take, is Riot being run from the top down by solely their market and analysis team? I think that is kind of why I stopped paying attention to most of it, the lore changed from being a vehicle for each character to grow to just being flavor text. Sure, it has a nice taste, but lacks consistency.
I wasn't even thinking about skin lore when I made that post, honestly. I was thinking about the Soraka lore update at the end of last year, or the Halloween lore update featuring Vlad, Veigar, and Nocturne, none of which even had any new skins at the time. Or even the most recent lore update featuring Kat, Annie, and Yi, also when they don't have any new releases.
: I mean, summoner spells technically make no sense anymore. Summoners were retconned forever ago. Not saying you can't enjoy it, it's just that they aren't thinking about continuity with any of their lore changes. If something conflicts, the older lore just gets removed. Also they aren't going to continually expand the lore for every champion to make it a fully fleshed out story, lore will only expand for the purpose of selling a champion, rather than for the purpose of world building.
Summoner spells don't have to make sense, because they're just a gameplay mechanic. Just because the game is no longer canon doesn't mean they've discarded continuity entirely. There's also plenty of lore made without the purpose of selling a champion; at least assuming you mean selling a _new_ champion, and not just a champ in general. Even then, there's a few stories ("At the Edge of the World" springs to mind) that feature no champs at all.
: Keeping up with the constant lore retcons is giving me whiplash.
Yeah, I asked Scathlocke when it happened, and apparently it happened due to a combination of wordcount limits, rejiggering the timeline to make it so Lux hasn't joined the Secret Magents yet (due to how they want to write the magic civil war storyline), and wanting to put everything that could be told in a proper story... well, in a proper story, not a bio. I'm with you in that I don't quite agree with it, and it makes it hard to counter the people who believe the lore is meaningless due to all the retcons, but I can see where they're coming from, and Scath was pretty clear that things will still happen the way we've seen, just that they haven't happened _yet._
: How can something be canon if it never happens in canon? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
Skin universes have their own canon.
: You, in another convo in this same discussion: "Not to mention, the lore is mostly divorced from the gameplay, sooooo..."
...Yeah? What's your point?
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cetri,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=0009000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-08T18:58:19.440+0000) > > And what makes LGBT people any more controversial than violent anarchists and demons? Not to mention, the lore is mostly divorced from the gameplay, sooooo... > > I'm assuming "different beliefs" here is used as a code for "gays are icky." 1. this can be looked at from various points of view, ex: Islam actually teaches AGAINST it and is punishable in the middle east by death, Christianity also teaches against it, HOWEVER, they're a lot less vocal about it and keep to themselves. 2. as mentioned above some cultures and beliefs teach against it, some a bit more violently than others, however, our point here is, that it shouldn't be something that people need to keep shoving in others faces like "accept me! I'm gay/lesbian so I must be accepted!" that just shows how insecure you are, now if you don't even so much as mention it, no one would care because it isn't there/mentioned just to be there/mentioned
> [{quoted}](name=Glîtchy,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=00090000000000010000,timestamp=2019-02-08T19:04:51.406+0000) > > 1. this can be looked at from various points of view, ex: Islam actually teaches AGAINST it and is punishable in the middle east by death, Christianity also teaches against it, HOWEVER, they're a lot less vocal about it and keep to themselves. That depends on the specific sect for both. There are numerous denominations of Christianity that are perfectly fine with LGBT people, and the same is true for Islam. Hell, the first Muslim person I ever met was a lesbian. > 2. as mentioned about some cultures and beliefs teach against it, some a bit more violently than others, however, our point here is, that it shouldn't be something that people need to keep shoving in others faces like "accept me! I'm gay/lesbian so I must be accepted!" that just shows how insecure you are, now if you don't even so much as mention it, no one would care because it isn't there/mentioned just to be there/mentioned Newsflash: No one is shoving it in your face like that. No one cares enough to ask for your acceptance. You are free to not consume the content. If anything shows insecurity, it's the people who think that LGBT characters merely existing is somehow an affront to their beliefs. Art reflects life, and life is full of LGBT people. Also, why do you think it's there just to be there? Why is it so impossible to comprehend that there might be a story someone wants to tell? Why do you believe LGBT characters are there just to be there, but (assumedly) you do not have the same concerns for characters who aren't?
: Lol not everything can be justified in the name of "creativity". And yes it is being crammed. League is a relatively unique game, so I can't merely go somewhere else to get this game experience. And that being said, it's a game, they shouldn't be forcing controversial content on anybody who wants to play. People who want that can find it in many other spheres in life, but it doesn't need to exist in a video game that is otherwise enjoyed by people of many different beliefs. Leftists shouldn't have the sheer Monopoly on free speech in order to force every one else to endure there ideologies in all sppheres, meanwhile hypocritically stuffing opposing viewpoints.
> [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2019-02-08T18:44:48.611+0000) > > Lol not everything can be justified in the name of "creativity". But this can. >And yes it is being crammed. League is a relatively unique game, so I can't merely go somewhere else to get this game experience. Never played it myself, but I understand DOTA is very similar. >And that being said, it's a game, they shouldn't be forcing controversial content on anybody who wants to play. And what makes LGBT people any more controversial than violent anarchists and demons? Not to mention, the lore is mostly divorced from the gameplay, sooooo... >People who want that can find it in many other spheres in life, but it doesn't need to exist in a video game that is otherwise enjoyed by people of many different beliefs. It doesn't need to _not_ exist either. I'm assuming "different beliefs" here is used as a code for "gays are icky." Personally, I don't believe that's a belief that should be respected in today's society. If we're going to talk about what people of different beliefs enjoy, well, I enjoy content featuring LGBT characters, so I suppose we're at an impasse. >Leftists shouldn't have the sheer Monopoly on free speech in order to force every one else to endure there ideologies in all sppheres, meanwhile hypocritically stuffing opposing viewpoints. You're free to create your own content if you don't like what Riot is producing. There's no monopoly going on. Also, gotta love the "not tolerating intolerance makes you a hypocrite!" argument. Always a classic.
Glîtchy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=KestrelGirl,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=BZtua9rQ,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-07T21:08:40.155+0000) > > Because Riot's afraid of Russia, China, and all the denizens of the boards and Reddit who will come out and say yOu'Re FoRcInG lGbT vAlUeS oN uS. well they kinda would be like with Neeko, I mean it's a game that's not even story driven so idk why they feel that it's needed
...Because LoL isn't _just_ a game? For a lot of people, including myself, the lore is just as much if not more of a draw than the game.
: Eh, my only issue with that whole fiasco was that a Rioter outright confirmed it on Twitter pre-release before the general playerbase got to discover it for themselves through lore and champion interactions (ya know, the way you're meant to learn about champions).
To be fair, it _was_ confirmed in response to someone asking about it after watching SkinSpotlights' champ interactions video.
: I hope not. Don't need more of this ideologically and subconsciously crammed down out throats
And what, pray tell, is being "crammed down [your] throats?" No one is forcing you to consume any of Riot's content, and if anything _is_ being forced, it's peoples' attempts to restrict creative freedom by making this sort of complaint.
Apriccot (NA)
: Where are the downvoted threads?
??? Downvoted threads are perfectly visible. Unless you have it set to display "best" or perhaps "hot" threads, there's no reason they shouldn't show up. I have it set to "recent" so anytime a comment is made on a thread, it shows up, no matter how old or what the vote total is.
: Outdated legendary skins.
Still salty that they didn't give a unique VO to Alien Invader Donger when they had the actor in for Dragon Trainer.
UniSect (NA)
: I donʻt get it. What does that mean?
Special champion interactions that you used to have to /taunt to hear, now play when the champs first encounter each other in game.
: We gonna get new lore every two weeks from now on
: Annie, Katarina and Master Yi short stories and Udyr, j4 and Sejuani bio updates
Damn, Yi's story hit like a truck. Annie's was perfect for her IMO. Katarina's was very vividly written in terms of fight choreography, it was really well done.
: Who should steal Lux's first kiss: Sylas or Ezreal?
: The 21st of February is the 10th anniversary of the first 17 champions Riot made. A Then and Now.
Wow, it's amazing how janky those old models are in comparison to the new ones, especially Raka, Sivir, and Annie. I wonder just how much Teemo, Jax, and Fiddle will improve when their day finally comes.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shiwah,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wYk0cHrw,comment-id=000700010001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T20:26:08.343+0000) > > Won't work, of course. Psychology 101: people won't listen to those insulting them. Proof? > And your previous point, "then they should mute me", defeats your current argument: you can't make them play better if they muted you, assuming you even have advice... which, by your own admission, you don't give because you're too busy flaming them. I didn't say they have to mute me, I said they have an option to mute me. > No, flame is inherently unconstructive, so don't try to pull the "my flame is advice" card, Critism is constructive. > because nobody believes that. You're assuming. > I'm really not. I've read the boards for years. What does the boards prove? > expecting empathy for your own misdeeds? I expect empathy because I have good intentions and reasons for flaming.
> [{quoted}](name=R107 Games,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=wYk0cHrw,comment-id=0007000100010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-29T20:56:09.674+0000) > > Proof? _If you rile people up, they aren't going to want to engage with you._ That's, like, basic human nature. > I didn't say they have to mute me, I said they have an option to mute me. _Which is not an excuse to make an ass out of oneself in the first place._ > Critism is constructive. What. Not _all_ criticism is constructive, especially if it's anything that could be construed as flaming. Constructive criticism is stuff like "Hey, let's not go in alone right now" or "There's a neat trick you can do with that champ that makes escaping easier." If you're saying things like "You're playing like dogshit" that's not constructive. It benefits nobody and helps no one to improve. > I expect empathy because I have good intentions and reasons for flaming. _There is never any good intention or reason for flaming in this game_.
: I hope they allow Sona to have a VO when she gets updated.
I feel like they might give her empathic abilities, which could possibly extend into telepathy and hence, a VO.
: "Other Music Inspired Skins"
Disco Nunu, obviously.
Ardranor (NA)
: did i miss something? is tahm no longer a considered a darkin? or was it always left vague with just his interactions with aatrox? so we should really just need a mid right?
Tahm was never considered a darkin, he's always been a demon. His calling Aatrox "brother" is merely out of respect for someone of comparable age and power.
: who rules the plains between demacia and noxus?
I feel like I remember some rioters commenting that it was multiple small kingdoms, presumably including Arbormark.
: Alright folks, this is going to be a big one; Let's talk ALL the current Tier 1 VGU priority champs
All I can say is: please keep the aviator slang on Corki. It's as core to him as metal is to Morde.
Trollas (EUNE)
: Is this a teaser on Zeds vu?
We know he's going to be tracking down an assassin, presumably Jhin. We also know that Jhin is heading to Piltover/Zaun. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a Piltover-inspired outfit/disguise for Zed.
Zeanix (OCE)
: I really think MOBA's isn't the best genre to develop story.
There's nothing I'd love more than an Elder Scrolls or Dragon Age style RPG.
Lewanor (NA)
: The League Universe in Season 2019 | /dev diary - League of Legends
: Is that all the Demacian lore we will get?
Keep in mind that Kayle and Morgana are confirmed to be Demacian. It's likely the _real_ show will start upon their release.
Naalith (NA)
: Does anyone know if this art asset is currently in-game or could it be from a second new champion?
I wonder... There's speculation that the new champ is able to attach themselves to other champs, could that perhaps be a tail or part of a robe, and the enchanter is sitting on the shoulders or floating just behind the champ with the legs?
: We have word limits, and we are now working to quite strict style guides that place a very clear separation between bios and stories. A bio should be informative, like a characterful encyclopedia of that champion to help onboard people. They should not be stories, and anything that could be told in a story, should be :-) Plus, some of the older bios are REALLY long, for comparatively little info. We can use those words better.
I can understand that logic. I'm not quite sure how I feel about it, but I understand it. Regardless, I do feel a lot better about the changes with the clarifications you've posted, so thanks for that.
: Can't blame you. I used to be optimistic for reworks like everyone else here but there's nothing all that exciting about making your main into a gimmick champ. Irelia is a mess, akali is a mess, shen is a mess, fiora is a mess, GP was unbalanceable for about 2 years, even less people play galio than before, same with taric. the sejuani GP rework took away everything that made the champ what she was and added some gimmicks. poppy and warwick are successful. I don't like those odds.
On the other hand, people that use Yorick and Urgot are taken seriously, from what I understand Aatrox's playrate has gone up, and Nunu isn't the ugliest champ in the game anymore. Pretty sure Swain and Eve have been successful as well (I don't really keep up with gameplay stats, though, so forgive me if I'm talking out of my ass a bit).
Ferrymąn (EUW)
: Why are Iron Chains inferior to a Single Arrow?
Weren't crossbows specifically invented to be armor-piercing? I don't think you're giving them enough credit.
Ink Rose (NA)
: Exactly, I thought the whole concept of the secret mages was clever, as it showed that there were certain Demacian officials who saw the benefits of magic but also wanted to keep it secretly controlled. It was overall a very good outlet for Lux to use her powers.
I asked over on the Sylas AMA thread, and here's what Scathlocke had to say. > [{quoted}](name=Scathlocke,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BvAsXkEr,comment-id=0008000000000001,timestamp=2019-01-25T19:42:36.095+0000) > > Everything on Universe can be considered canon. 'Flesh and Stone' is still on Universe. :-) > > The "walking back" of the Radiant Ones is not a retcon, it's more trying to place "when is now?" in Runeterra. Lux already met Kahina, for example, by the time Sylas breaks out... but she appears not yet to be aware of any mysterious magical group within Demacia. Such a group would almost certainly be in conflict with the mageseekers, which is not a story we're ready to place at this time. > > So a lot of stuff is still canon (or will be canon) but it "hasn't happened yet". That's the best way to think about it. > > Overwhelmingly, players have requested story progression and a sense of time in the lore. We can't do that if all champions exist in conflicting states of knowledge, or if all stories just exist in a timeless splurge of perpetual "now". > > Cycling up to big stories and meaningful progression of the lore requires us to evaluate where (and when) every champion exists, "now". > > Hope that helps! It's pretty reassuring to me, although I still have my qualms with how dryly the new bio is written in comparison to the old one.
: From what I can tell the update changed or straight up removed a lot of story telling qualities/elements that her update previously had. There's still a story there, but reading it feels less like reading a story and more like reading a timeline of events compared to before. Is this a new direction? For bios to be more like timelines of events and keep the reading experience to color stories?
This. I can make my peace with Lux/Demacia being walked back timeline-wise, but I still feel that the new bio is written very... _dryly_, for lack of a better word. Just compare the previous description of when Lux was attacked by the sabrewolves: >As the last light of day sank in the west, her horse lost its footing on a patch of ice and fell, breaking its foreleg. Lux was stranded; too far from the nearest town to reach it before nightfall, and too distraught at her mount's pain to leave him. She knew what Garen would say: kill the horse swiftly to end its suffering. But Lux couldn't bring herself to kill a mount she had ridden since she was a child. As Lux prepared for a night alone on the mountain, a lean and hungry sabrewulf pack, scenting the horse's blood, descended from their dens in search of fresh meat. > >As night fell and Lux had still not returned home, her father and Garen rode out to find her. They searched all night, and eventually found her the next morning, shivering and alone next to her frightened horse. The corpses of six sabrewulfs surrounded her, their fur scorched and flesh seared. Lux refused to speak of what happened and begged her father to rescue her beloved steed. A wagon was dispatched from the family home, and the horse was saved as Lux nursed it back to health. > >Since that night, Lux knew she possessed abilities beyond those of everyone around her: abilities the people of magic-averse Demacia would view with hatred. Since a babe in arms, Lux had been taught that magic had once brought Runeterra to the edge of annihilation. Her own uncle had been slain by a mage, and Demacia's folktales were replete with stories portraying sorcerers as twisted servants of evil, that told of how even the purest heart could be corrupted by magic. Would she become evil? Was she an abomination to be killed or exiled beyond the great wall? Fear and doubt gnawed at Lux, and she spent many nights squeezing her eyes closed, clenching her fists to stop the light rippling from her skin. To the new one: >Riding home one fateful night, Lux and her horse were attacked by a ravenous sabrewulf pack. In a moment of fear and desperation, the young girl let loose a torrent of magical light from deep within her, routing the beasts but leaving her shivering in fear. Magic, the terror of Demacian myths, was as much a part of Lux as her Crownguard lineage. > >Fear and doubt gnawed at her. Would she become evil? Was she an abomination, to be imprisoned or exiled? At the very least, if her powers were discovered, it would see the Crownguard name disgraced forever.
: Wait, what? Did they make changes to her lore to compensate Sylas? .-.
Yeah, there's a thread on it over on S/A/S [here](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/beJfAlAu-is-lux-no-longer-a-demacian-secret-agent).
DyQuill (NA)
: We're here too! Compare the number of comments on here vs reddit tho :/ And the fact that this post has more down than upvotes lol
Hey, is someone on the Sylas team responsible for the recent changes to Lux's lore? Because I feel like she just got Karma'd. The lore overall feels less detailed than before, and takes out many of the more impactful moments (Is "Flesh and Stone" not canon anymore? God, I hope not. That is _easily_ one of the most touching and impactful stories League has). I feel like this was done in order to retcon out the Radiant Ones in order to makeway for Sylas's story, but if you ask me I feel that you guys could have easily made them coexist. I defend the choices you guys make a lot, but IMO this was a _huge_ step in the wrong direction, and not just because it retcons already-retconned lore.
Ink Rose (NA)
: No idea, it's very strange. Would love to see some Riot clarification! {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
I feel like it's less detailed overall. It gives less of a detailed picture on who Lux is in general (it's missing the parts that talk about how she's someone who _gets shit done_, for one thing), and excises some of the most impactful moments. If this was to retcon out the Radiant Ones in order to make way for Sylas's plotline, then I'm thoroughly disappointed. I feel they could easily have made both of those plotlines work together. Now I know how the ones complaining about Karma felt.
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Cetri

Level 44 (NA)
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