Barcid (NA)
: The Yuumi changes flat out miss the mark of what her problem is
They need to give her a per target cooldown for her W or something that only refreshes if she hasnt been on them for a given amount of time without hopping on someone else.
: So what your saying is their kits are completely different and that yuumi mains should be fine and ok with having a playstyle that has its own risks and dangers being removed in place of a playstyle YOU think is fair, honestly i get tired of people like you telling me i'm not allowed to play my favorite champions, people like you ruined eve into what she is now which riots admits is now a wrong thing to change a champion so completely that it removes their original player base (these people must very often just quit lol forever hence their change of heart on the topic). Even i have champions i think are completely unfair but i don't go onto the forums and write an essay as to why all {{champion:420}} players are no longer allowed to play their champion and that it should be changed to be like ( insert generic champion from another game here ).
I was with you until u brought up Eve. Her rework was litterally a pure net possitive while retaining everything good about her.
Jaspers (EUW)
: Team the E attack speed with Ardent. Going to add a lot of attack speed to people that don't usually have it, Garen/Yuumi bot lane may become more of a regular pick.
you know, as opposed to her just sitting on the ADC forever?
xelaker (NA)
: new urgot feels absolutely nothing like the old one...
??? You still Tag em with Q and then rapid fire them with W. E and Ulti effectively replace his old ultimate. The only thing he doesn't have is his old passive.
Saezio (EUNE)
: When was the last time a DoT effect was introduced to the game?
DoTs don't CHUNK Ppl so they aren't flashy! Not Flashy = bad obv! #RiotGames
: > a support should not have a skill that knocks off 20% HP its not JUST 20%, its 16% PLUS healing PLUS gaining extra crit chance PLUS gaining extra ad PLUS gaining extra range **_Senna's next attack collects the Mist and deals 1% − 16% (based on level) of target's current health Attack damage bonus physical damage._** thats just from the first paragraph of the passive ignoring her q which heals her PLUS her ally PLUS damages PLUS puts her passive on enemies, you get where this is going > And then there's tons of offensive mages in the support slot who literally 2 skill kill. none of which heal PLUS damages PLU- im not gonna go over that again, her kit is just bloated to high hell she does BOTH damaging AND supporting while everyone else has to choose between the 2 riot REALLY needs to decide between her being supportive or damaging and as im looking at the changes, shes still gonna be a monster in both fields
Exactly. heck i don't even have a problem with her doing both, but she shouldn't be doing both super well with no trade offs like she is now.
Raiyza (NA)
: That would require full reworks. The champions are fine as non-supports the way they are (with senna losing her heal, of course). It makes more sense to me to just lose their support features. Reworking pyke and senna would be fine too, I suppose, but their kits are good for the most part outside the support role.
it really doesn't. All they have to do is take the training wheels off the champs and balance their numbers without them on. These champs are where they are because of tackled on elements, not fundamental design issues. Lets be claantly honest.You wanna remove the support elements because you dont LIKE support. The champions entire concepts revolve around them being support. It makes no sense to claim they would be better off without them when they wouldn't even BE anythign without them.
: If you're going to remove tank and enchanter supports gold income can their items at least cost less
: > [{quoted}](name=Boomer,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ENg5udYp,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-12-02T13:39:10.698+0000) > > Between presence of mind, manaflow band, and biscuit/time warp tonic...there are literally 3/5 trees that give access to mana regeneration in lane. > > It is ludicrous how little mana means to mages these days, unless you're Ryze (which is not even because of his mana costs, but because of how it's tied to his damage.) Yeah, except that by taking mana regen or other mana bonus runes, you sacrifice other things like damage, utility, MS, healing, tenacity, magic shields, etc. In other words, energy champs and non-resource champs are at a severe advantage just in the rune tree alone by being able to focus on other advantages without needing to sacrifice resource management.
I'm sympathetic to the amount of advantage energy users have over mana users, but let's not kid ourselves. Nothing u stated has been true for over 4 seasons now. All your mana items give buttons of damage these days. {{item:3802}} {{item:3003}} {{item:3285}}
Xenoid (OCE)
: I have an idea! Let's make a map with only 2 lanes and jungle camps, where you need to capture objectives in jungle to gain team buffs. And instead of 5v5 make it 3v3! {{sticker:sg-miss-fortune}}
How about one that's a circle where you have to capture points and hold on to em for long enough! Its 5v5 but more about map control than farming minions! {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: [Discussion]: Yuumi Adjustments on PBE
I like that her passive mana recovery effect is back. Not a fan of the attack speed on e and adaptive buff on W. These feel like changes that discourage her from hopping off her ally and feel tacked on.
Garson211 (EUNE)
: I think its because now rito targeting game most to the china players and they like style of,lets call it "fast game"where is 1000 of effects on screen and huge fucking swords.EU,NA ect dont like this hentai stuff so ppls from that regions lose interest . I still cant look those star guardian and other "tousand colour "shit skins. Also, I think CertainlyT should be fired from riot because of him and his nasty ideas, the game is getting worse amd worse
>hentai stuff ???? {{sticker:slayer-jinx-unamused}}
: Question......Why is Lee Sin in every game?
Because ever since Riot made the stun on his ult last longer, he gets a free Q off of it every time now which made he's easier for noobs to play Also because he is Lee Sin The Blind Monk and has always had a high play rate due to being flashy.
: Lets be honest. There was a certain unique charm playing pre-rework Urgot
Idk, I feel new Urgot does a great job of having the same core apeal of old Urgot without being aids, which I didnt think was possible b4 he was released. I just wish his shield would go back on his W.
IainG10 (EUW)
: Ofc, the opposite will happen with ASol; his mains are sad to lose their sustained DPS AP quasi-bruiser, but Rito want him to be another instagib clone now and will never revert....
The changes to Asol and Aatrox still disgust me, and I never even liked Aatrox.
eye nut (NA)
: Anyone think that Senna is actually op instead of experiencing the new champion effect?
She is actually fine design wise. She just has a lot of tacke on power and freebir training wheels for no reason. It's very clear a lot of the stuff is there because someone forgot to tell the designer to stop, as opposed to the based concept actually being flawed.
: It'd also feel kinda of clunky to have the set up for your gap closer on ability that already brings them to you. The Q makes sense, you hit a target far away and leap to them, but whats the point of leaping to someone you're already onto? Yah, it gives her more damage and sticking potential sure, but it'd still feel kinda bad I'd think.
The idea I think is u apply it on multiple targets.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1Un1Nnog,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-12-02T03:28:10.298+0000) > > Why does Senna get 3 gold from Mist? > Someone please explain this to me. Souls gotta pay to get out of Thresh lantern
Now I'm just imagining Senna with a bunch of people lined up as she collects rent. Lol
: > [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aKGy9vht,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-11-29T11:07:35.156+0000) > > Support right now is still fine. > > Support players just don't want to accept that their role is a UTILITY ROLE and isn't meant to be carrying. > > > The role of a Support is to assist the team with utility such as Vision, healing, shielding, crowd control and offensive/defensive steroids. Why is everyone downvoting this comment when it's essentially what supports were meant to do? Why should supports have a huge impact on the game compared to a mainline role such as mid or top. I mean yeah support has a very good strength in regards to utility but why do we support mains need damage? I'd rather have access to more shielding/healing instead of damage. It's so counterintuitive for people to downvote this post instead of thinking for themselves. #botted
Because it implies that carrying and providing utility are mutually exclusive , which is both ignorant and condescending.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: The whole idea behind the support role is having a character that has enough power to be useful even with a lower income, since there are only 4 reliable sources of gold (the 3 lanes and the jungle). While Pyke and Senna may not have the most Utility in the world, they do bring a decent amount of Utility to make them useful. Pyke in particular has a Hook, a dash that applies an AoE Stun and an Ultimate that generates Gold. He has the tools to set-up kills for his allies and finish the escaping opponents. He is the definition of a catcher (or hooker), class that is defined by heavily aggressive playstyles. Senna instead feels like a true sniper, a backline character that brings both damage and utility from afar. While she is arguably overloaded (I personally think she has number issues, but that is another subject), every ability of her offers utility. Her Q is also a Heal, her W is an AoE Snare, her E is an AoE semi-camouflage with a Speed boost, her R is also a delayed Global AoE Shield. While they sure are broken right now, I feel like their concepts do take into account offering Utility for their team over dealing Damage and they could be balanced through some heavy number nerfs to not be as overbearing as they are.
This. I have ZERO issue with Pyke and Senna conceptually. Heck I find them both fun to play. My problem is they have Yasuo training wheels for no reason.
: Say it with me, not having mana regen on spellthief feels like dog shit
>Not having mana regen OR CDR feels like dog shit Fixed!
Ekitaih (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Garson211,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hHW3UVzx,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2019-11-29T07:49:17.468+0000) > > So support want generate more gold "for nothing" than solo lane?Support items are much more cheper.This is one of the reson why they cant give you this gold generation. > Go and compare gold cost of typical top build and support. > For example Urgot : DD 3500 FM 3100 BC 3000 Thornmail 2900 tabi 1100 Spirit Visage 2800 Thats 16 400 Gold for full build > Nami /Soraka/Janna : Spell thief 400 Redemption 2100 Grail 2100 Locket 2200 Ardent 2300 Ionia boots 900 Thats 10 000 Gold for full build > > On normal game both buying pink wards so dont point this coz its stupid. Support items are cheper thats why you will not gather so much gold.You want more? Ok lets change cost of the items +500 for all of them. > Oh boy there is nothing more fun to play vs like feed lux support one shoting you coz she generate more gold than you on solo lane... You're forgetting Twin Shadow's 2400. Standard for a lot of AP supports. It's easy to point out all the champs that take the cheapest items (not to mention, these items don't apply to every situation, but that's probably a little too hard to understand I guess...), but how about tanky supports? That don't rely on all cheap items? For example, Nautilus standard build? It's not uncommon for a tank to take Righteous Glory 2650, Randuin's Omen 2900, or even Deadman's Plate 2900. Let's also not forget that it takes almost 40 minutes to obtain JUST 10000 gold which is required for the CHEAPEST full build. Without control wards and elixir. Tell me how a support is supposed to stay viable here? "Well gee, guys, y'all get a free item for 400 gold. It also got a staff buff, so quit complaining." Okay, but what about utility instead of just raw stats? A lot of supports would prefer utility over raw dmg stat buffs. Sure, some wanted the raw dmg stat buffs, but losing the mana regen and CDR really hit some supports hard. I don't understand what people aren't getting. The new change will eventually effect those who aren't support mains. Because, news flash, the new items have been met with a lot of negative feedback from support mains. Some of the support mains are trying to find new roles. So guess who's going to be getting autofilled?
>I don't understand what people aren't getting. The new change will eventually effect those who aren't support mains. Because, news flash, the new items have been met with a lot of negative feedback from support mains. Some of the support mains are trying to find new roles. So guess who's going to be getting autofilled? Talk to em, fam!
Draehl (NA)
: The clear answer for supports is to add items that are super cost efficient but have a downside. For example: rework {{item:3193}} into a more affordable item with strong health/armor/resist, but it perpetually reduces all of your damage by 30%. One for enchanters that gives bonus AP when spells are used on allies, but not against enemies or yourself. One for AP supports that grants bonus damage, but only if another ally has damaged the enemy in the last 5 seconds, etc. I'm sure there are some abuse cases that would need to be designed around, but there need to be more cheap items we can buy that the other roles won't want because of their penalties.
>One for AP supports that grants bonus damage, but only if another ally has damaged the enemy in the last 5 seconds, etc. Eh u had my relative attention until ya said this one. This is gonna be abused by midlanders. Supports arent the only champions hitting people that their allies are hitting.
: Should've been like Ganesha from Smite where he is incapable of getting kills (he gives the credit to allies and takes the assist for himself)
I'm actually fine with his Ults gold Gen. My problem is how easy it is for him to get u eith his ulti. Why is it a "if the enemy's HP is lower than this number, they are dead" style threshold? Why not just make it a normal missing health execute? Why does it ignore shields? His Ultimate would be fine if it took even just a monocrum of skill to use, but as it is, he can solokill tanks because he doesnt even need to have a solo laner level of damage to kill you. The idea behind him should be that he has to work with allies to get kills with his ulti.
: Why are Pyke and Senna allowed to be exempt from the support changes?
Why does Senna get 3 gold from Mist? Someone please explain this to me.
: I'm not touching support till they do something about the gold gen.
I dont understand why they took away CDR from the support item, a class that was historically designed around having more uptime on spells to conpensate for lack of personal damage and agency, while midlane mages are getting 30 CDR from one item as we speak. It doesnt make any sense.
: There NEEDS to be some kind of counter to Akali's smokescreen
Honestly her W is fine. The problem is how much nonsense she can do on top of having it really.
Raiyza (NA)
: Yes, agreed. Same with Pyke. What Riot should do, is turn these two into an actual ADC/Assassin respectively. Then create two new support champions that are actual supports. The game is just a damage fest rather than a strategy game.
No...... what they should do is let them be the supports they were designed to be?
: AD Supports!
J4 was low key viable as a support even b4. Now he is a solid pick imho.
DalekZec (EUNE)
: What champion can take Dragon early?
86400 (NA)
: {{champion:427}}
Nea104 (EUW)
: They just deleted another pretty big thread about Senna and how wrong she is. For the rest, I repeat: where are all the smart kids saying she wasn't gonna be a "Pyke 2.0" issue? :D
: She wouldn't be too hard to fix. Get rid of her gaining 10/15/20% of her target's movement speed when auto-attacking them. Remove the AD ratio from her Q's Heal, remove self-heal from her Q, add 20% ratio to her Q's AP ratio. That would be a good start, then they can continue from there. She needs to lose all this extra power she has going for her, but it'll also hurt her supporting, which isn't a problem (at least I don't think it is), so give her some power there to compensate her.
- the movespeed on ur autos is fine but it should be a flat number that scales as opposed being based on her enemies movespeed. That's just the designers babying their creations. - Her being able to heal herself with Q is fine. What isnt fine is she can do it no matter what she targets. Make her have to Q and ally to heal herself. - I'm fine with the AD ratio on her Q, but not the hal od her Q. Either make it stupidly small or remove it. What they really need to do is hit that passive. It just gives her too much free stats. She shouldnt be able to scale into infinitely on it for attack range for starters. Also, her W range doesnt need to be that long. Lastly her Ulti doesnt need to do that much damage and the shield could scale better. It didnt need to be global, but I'm fine with the shield part being global. The damage part is too high for a near instant global range spell. It makes Luxs ulti blush and that just isnt right.
: Right? She needs to be nerfed or gutted to oblivion and riot needs to keep their word and keep her as just a support and not some ADC. What a joke this game is becoming.
Ur exaggerating. She isnt fundementally broken. She is just overturned. She can easily be brought in line.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Not only her range, but she deals % dmg. Like why?
Same reason Pyke's ultimate instakills u within a threshold while ignoring shields instead of being %missing health based.
KyattsuAi (EUW)
: Umbral glaive is broken in terms of vision control and gives an unfair advantage to some supports
Honestly I like the dichotomy. What I would rather is first that it not insta kill for range. That's just nutty no matter what. Additionally, I would like an item for enchanters that just let us get more wards and place them are a greater range tbh. As someone else said, it's bad enough with 0 vision already, we dont need to accentuate the problem.
: "support" design has been complete garbage lately
Senna isnt a nightmare tho balance. She has been out for a week. He hasnt even been touched yet, an once they do, I'm sure she will be fine afterwards. Pykes problems are his passive and Ulti. Yuumi is fine rn imho.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AEARrLw0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-01T00:17:42.354+0000) > > They are working how to not make Rengar bullshit for 6 years now. > ...Seriously. the rework he had was a good start. but rengar mains cried he couldnt instakill anyone anymore so they reverted his nerf. they said "oh now hes like a bruiser not an assassin". meanwhile a lot of rengars are actually building like a bruiser (black cleaver/essence reaver/spirit visage) and not full lethality. funny. shame they reverted the rework. was a good thing for LoL. shame they went back on it and they just gave rengar more broken tools.
This. Same thing with the Leblanc rework. She was both so much more fun to play and play against, but Leb mains cried they couldnt QRW to delete ppl in 0.5 seconds anymore so they reverted her.
: Stfu and do your job, ward bot. Why are you buying more than boots anyway Hello S2 supporting
I guess ppl dont know sarcasm when they see it.
: One thing I find a little unusual about Garen is, despite how his spin looks and logic in general, it's not a channeled ability. Even if he's stunned, silenced, or slept during its animation, it continues.
iiGazeii (NA)
: Senna's rank 1 heal w/ no items: 40 for the target, 40 for her, 15 second cooldown. Nami's heal rank 1 w/ no items: up to 123 to the target (min 60). 51 for her. 10 second cooldown. Nami's heal is similarly costed, but does 50%-200% extra healing to the target and slightly more healing to herself. The cooldown is also much lower baseline, and doesn't require her to push the wave to get it back. It also has better scaling.
Namis W needs an enemy to bounce to before it can bounce to an ally.
: I feel like the average Senna players undervalue Athene. Given how easily and safely Senna can deal respectable chuncks of damage, that item is fully stacked whenever Q is used, and that's +250hp per healing. I just witnessed my brother playing a decently fed (2/1/7) Senna that had her ADC backing at 20% hp due to an assassin aggression. I said to him "heal the ADC". He was skeptical, but trusted me. The ADC was back at 75% hp, he canceled the back in disbelief and typed "wtf" in chat. Don't tell me that's too far from what THE specialized healer Soraka can do.
As someone who uses the item on her religiously, I agree wholeheartedly lol
: > [{quoted}](name=GinoSoldier,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YL6bpilf,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-12-01T06:19:31.311+0000) > > The issue to me is that while Soraka sacrifices HP to heal a single target, then has to hit Q to get it back, Senna can hit *multiple* allies to heal including herself while also dealing non-negligible damage and resetting AA. A skilled Senna who can land Q's on multiple hits i feel can easily match a Soraka over the course of a game, and definitely outheal her in lane due to systematically healing herself as well as her ally. > > Sona has that feature, targeting multiple champions. And her heal is restricted to two targets, was nerfed to pathetic base values in lane, and costs an overwhelming amount of mana to boot. If the W cast does not block damage, it's literally wasted mana. Which is why I believe her damage should be gutted, while preserving her core supporting capabilities. Some people want Riot to completely remove self-healing from her Q because that would "balance her". No, it would straight up destroy the champion (or bring about **great **compensations somewhere else in her kit). If anything, her self-healing should be cut in half instead (if we're going with that whole "remove self-healing" option).
I agree. I dont have a problem with her healing herself but either she needs to have the self healing lowered or it needs to be put somewhere else in her kit.
Flemman (EUW)
: To be honest, sona was already hit hard with the yuumi release, as they pretty much do the same but one of them doesn't put herself at risk to make plays
Yumi at least has the caveat of having to dedicate yourself to one person at a time and then switching as a tradeoff tho.
Raiyza (NA)
: Her healing power needs to be hard-nerfed.
> [{quoted}](name=Raiyza,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YL6bpilf,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2019-12-01T06:07:55.058+0000) > > Her healing power needs to be hard-nerfed. Honeslty my problem with senna is she deals too much damage while building support and has too much free utility building damage.
: As a soraka, nami, and former sona player the biggest spit in the face is not only the free stats from senna's passive but the fact that she can scale with pure damage stats while still having the same amount of uility as every enchanted who had their scaling dumpstered
: As a 600k Soraka main the very existence of Senna is just a slap in the face
I dont understand why her Ult needed to be global on top of having such a fast cast time AND dealing a ton of damage.
: Senna NEEDS to be given a HARSH choice. DAMAGE or UTILITY.
As someone who enjoys playing her, I agree. the simple problem is she gets too much free damage and her utility scales as well for free. Its like no matter what ur really building her, she is still just ending up the same without giving up much.
Morrhen (EUW)
: Playing against Senna can be a nightmare if you have wrong kind of a team. However, Senna completely melts when faces against mobile assassins or tank supports. Nautilus and Leona have been especially useful against her. Yes, she has a very long range. WHICH upgrades over time. On the flip side, you don't see people going defensive on her. Because you really can't afford to go defensive. You go for more armor/mr7Hp and your damage drops. If your damage drops, you heal less, deal less damage and esentially become useful for snaring groups and making people unclickable. HOWEVER. Senna deserves nerfs to SOLIDIFY her as support. Instead of people abusing a newly released champ to play her in top/mid. A) Leave the AD and Range alone. However, instead, nerf her crits from 15 to 10. Additionally, remove the Lifesteal part. Her passive is already overloaded with power. B) Nerf the damage on her Q. Buff the healing. Furthemore, make it more rewarding to play AP Senna with increased ratios on her abilities which reward healing, instead of damage. C) Her snare effect is pretty damn fair, in my opinion. It's no Morgana Q. It's delayed, its very slow and can be dodged easily. D) Her E is alright. It's probably what makes this champion work. But duration could be decreased by 1 second. E) As compensation for changes, buff her ultimate AP ratio. So people actually have REASON to build her in a diverse way and use her ult to protect their allies. Instead of using it as weaker Lux ult.
: Senna simply does way too much poke damage
Senna should be healing and supporting more than dealing damage rather than the other way around when building support and yet she doesnt. It makes no sense to me.
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ChaddyFantome

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