: Lissandra has a new passive
While i really love the idea, im a bit worried it might be too powerful and take too much of her power budget. She is essentially leaving by a version of her self-ult behind every time she participates in a kill. time will have to tell, but my interest is exceedingly peaked to say the least.
: Because where are they supposed to go? Bruisers with conqueror are stronger than them in lane and currently scale better than them too because of it. And they cant duel or clear fast in the jungle where it's all about the scuttle crab.
> [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UEYcV5zK,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-17T21:46:44.686+0000) > > Because where are they supposed to go? Bruisers with conqueror are stronger than them in lane and currently scale better than them too because of it. And they cant duel or clear fast in the jungle where it's all about the scuttle crab. Support role! only place left and tbh, it's where they are most balanced imho.
: What if Garen Q grounded instead of silencing?
Since Garen is supposed to be good against Mage, making him anti mobility and instead of anti ability cast kinda doesn't make sense.
japhib (NA)
: and you guys wonder why Rioters ignore these boards
I honestly don't see anything wrong with her rework tbqh. Akali's W has always had the issue of kinda being a joke stealth mechanic because its limited to an clearly indicated area. On top of the fact that making it a ring makes it MUCH more limited in application, i think it's perfectly fair. As a whole, Akali at least looks MUCH better than her current self.
: Yes hilarious. Thank you for the input I wrote a nice long thought out post on how not all champs with stealth are bad, but the ones that are make the game so much less fun. Thank you for taking your time and posting your much needed comment. This definitely has changed my mind.
> [{quoted}](name=LeftyRaydy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=42IJnY3Z,comment-id=000d0000,timestamp=2018-07-17T15:25:52.394+0000) > > Yes hilarious. Thank you for the input I wrote a nice long thought out post on how not all champs with stealth are bad, but the ones that are make the game so much less fun. Thank you for taking your time and posting your much needed comment. This definitely has changed my mind. Glad I could make a different! ^.^ {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: I've made multiple posts about lanes like that needing some serious balancing but always get downvoted and told to build magic resist. As though I can build enough magic resist that it will matter against both sorc boots and morello's and then the eventual void staff; I still have to build damage.
> [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OzA5JN0W,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-17T06:05:28.077+0000) > > I've made multiple posts about lanes like that needing some serious balancing but always get downvoted and told to build magic resist. As though I can build enough magic resist that it will matter against both sorc boots and morello's and then the eventual void staff; I still have to build damage. I'd take it more seriously if the argument to why it needs to be addressed was more than just "it's here and supposedly shouldn't be"
: I think Stealth should be removed from the game until it is Healthy, Change my mind
_" Think Basic attacks should be removed from the game until it is healthy Change my mind"_ {{sticker:sg-lulu}}
Hayaishi (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Hn2YLF3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-17T06:20:12.980+0000) > > In diference to when is a adc meta where everyone is happy and not everyone was crying for months on the Gameplay Boards right? Every meta will be hated for a part of the playerbase. "Adc meta" doesn't make 3 other roles sit below 49% win rate. I'm being objective.
> [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2Hn2YLF3,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-07-17T06:22:08.225+0000) > > "Adc meta" doesn't make 3 other roles sit below 49% win rate. > > I'm being objective. Fighters, Tanks, Assassins. There's your 3.
Krotux (NA)
: Next up they're going to add True Armor...wait Riot doesn't like anything that prevents MOAR DAMGE Okay, next up we will see True Mobility - immune to cc, grounding, etc then True Healing - immune to GW then True True - ??
: It will be counted by the new Warwick ability....True Smell.
> [{quoted}](name=SammyDayspring,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dZ7AwKlM,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-07-16T19:10:18.899+0000) > > It will be counted by the new Warwick ability....True Smell. True Scent confirm'd
: So now there's going to be true stealth... Then what the fuck is true sight?
I think we need to not be hasty here. For one we have to remember that Akali's Shroud not only is in a very small finite space, but now its in a ring with even more restricted movement.
Rouwhorst (EUW)
: They buffed base stats in the preseason to offset this. For mages often increased health and health growth. For fighters and marksman more armor. It seems it was closely linked with the role the champion was played in and what kind of damage it would generally take. physical damage -> armor buff (+9) Magic damage -> health buff (+12/lvl) and sometimes a combination of both. Clearly the armor loss was directly offset with the first case. The health buff are actually quite strong, offsetting the (1.5) mr/level runes in effective health. Of course removing resistances and adding health makes penetration stronger, but it also makes the defensive counterpart stronger. (also improves % health scaling) The champions with the armor buff did not get 1.5 mr per level and are thus (increasingly) weaker versus magic damage **if** other factors like the new rune system are not taken into account. The champions with the health buff are slightly weaker early game versus physical damage but the health increase is so strong that the opposite is true at level 18. ~50 effective health less at lvl 1, ~230 effective health extra at level 18 (with base stats). Calculating the breaking point is a little bit difficult as the health growth in league is not constant. Wukong became only lately this strong (8.6 major buff) Quinn also had some buffs in 8.6 Mundo buff 8.9 Some other things to consider: Meta shifts, AP item changes (favors certain ap champions), ADC nerfs, lower playrate marksman (favors champs such as garen), rose tinted glasses.
> [{quoted}](name=Rouwhorst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6rVsWl8a,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-07-13T22:21:08.204+0000) > > They buffed base stats in the preseason to offset this. > For mages often increased health and health growth. > For fighters and marksman more armor. > It seems it was closely linked with the role the champion was played in and what kind of damage it would generally take. > physical damage -> armor buff (+9) > Magic damage -> health buff (+12/lvl) > and sometimes a combination of both. > > Clearly the armor loss was directly offset with the first case. > The health buff are actually quite strong, offsetting the (1.5) mr/level runes in effective health. > Of course removing resistances and adding health makes penetration stronger, but it also makes the defensive counterpart stronger. > (also improves % health scaling) > > The champions with the armor buff did not get 1.5 mr per level and are thus (increasingly) weaker versus magic damage **if** other factors like the new rune system are not taken into account. > > The champions with the health buff are slightly weaker early game versus physical damage but the health increase is so strong that the opposite is true at level 18. ~50 effective health less at lvl 1, ~230 effective health extra at level 18 (with base stats). Calculating the breaking point is a little bit difficult as the health growth in league is not constant. > > Wukong became only lately this strong (8.6 major buff) > Quinn also had some buffs in 8.6 > Mundo buff 8.9 > Some other things to consider: Meta shifts, AP item changes (favors certain ap champions), ADC nerfs, lower playrate marksman (favors champs such as garen), rose tinted glasses. Why is this being downvoted?
Nhifu (NA)
: We really need to increase base resistances
they increased base resistances at the start of the season across the board already.
: I'd love it if supports could move to toplane.
I actually agree. Top lane supporting should be an option. Support should be free to support who needs it , the same way jungler is free to pressure the map where it's needed.
: I miss reaching the point where each team feels evenly matched, where teamfights leave the pushing power of both teams gutted, and where it felt like everyone was giving it their all. In those games it felt like one person making an amazing play, or one person making a mistake, could end the game, but that we also had enough tools to prevent it from happening. The early snowballs were over and everyone was on equal footing at that point, and it was finally coming down to a match between the players behind their champions, rather than just the champions themselves.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HYJGXNKn,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-07-14T23:28:22.445+0000) > > I miss reaching the point where each team feels evenly matched, where teamfights leave the pushing power of both teams gutted, and where it felt like everyone was giving it their all. > > In those games it felt like one person making an amazing play, or one person making a mistake, could end the game, but that we also had enough tools to prevent it from happening. The early snowballs were over and everyone was on equal footing at that point, and it was finally coming down to a match between the players behind their champions, rather than just the champions themselves. Beautifully said. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}}
: Anyone miss the 35-minute games?
You have absolutely no idea. I miss the days when the game didn't end before it started, and emphasised tactical play of the map as opposed to kills and tower rush simulator. I miss the days of the epic staredowns of teams, sizing each other up like a cowboy movie, and fights felt like an active experience as opposed to a contest of who made the first move correctly or not, resulting in instant destruction. I miss the feeling of said teamfight ending, the remaining member sof the team hanging on for dear life and doing what they could to push forward to the objective while they still could, bringing out what advantage and lead they could muster. I miss when this game was engaging. {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}}
: Just make it so that combo doesnt proc elec
> [{quoted}](name=GrReaper96,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NyITfUkr,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-07-15T00:00:28.353+0000) > > Just make it so that combo doesnt proc elec Why not just remove Elec from the game instead given its always been a braindead Rune?
: Zed's W + E + Q shouldn't be able to one shot a squishy
kjm99 (NA)
: Assassins are just unhealthy in general. They're nearly worthless if they can't oneshot, and if they can they're nearly unstoppable without a whole team to lock them down.
> [{quoted}](name=kjm99,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o2NdZJyq,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-07-14T21:03:09.252+0000) > > Assassins are just unhealthy in general. They're nearly worthless if they can't oneshot, and if they can they're nearly unstoppable without a whole team to lock them down. Mages are just unhealthy in general. They are nearly worthless if they aren't blowing up the enemy team and perma shoving waves, and if they can, they basically nearly unstoppable without the whole team to dive them. Marksman ar ejust unhealthy in general They are nearly worthless if they can't right click with impunity, and if they can, they are nearly unstoppable without the whole team to instantly blow them up. Tanks are just unhealthy in general. They are nearly worthless if they can't take all your damage without dying, and if they can, they become important and steamroll over you with base damage. Bruisers are just unhealthy in general. They are nearly worthless unless they can take hits, and if they can, they become 1 man armies without the whole team to lock them down. Enchanters are just unhealthy in general. They are worthless if they can't protect their allies, and when they can, you basically need the whole team just to eliminate them. Skirmishers are just unhealthy in general. They are useless unless they can kill everyone and everything, and if they can, you pretty much need the whole team to lock them down. starting to notice how dumb this statement is?
: Supports can't peel from mages, but can from assassins. You can see assassins as they kill you, as bullshit as this sounds, but mages have abilities to kill you offscreen. I know assassins are running amok right now ~~because people begged for enchanter nerfs and now nothing is left to save you guys~~, but come on, don't be this biased.
> [{quoted}](name=Cancerous Lulu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o2NdZJyq,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-07-14T10:23:12.369+0000) > > Supports can't peel from mages, but can from assassins. > > You can see assassins as they kill you, as bullshit as this sounds, but mages have abilities to kill you offscreen. > > I know assassins are running amok right now ~~because people begged for enchanter nerfs and now nothing is left to save you guys~~, but come on, don't be this biased. it says something when we are on the same page for a change lol
Iamgeyer (NA)
: Getting one shot against assassins versus getting one shot against mages
>{{champion:99}} Has to be ahead in order to kill you with one rotation. Has to hit her q in order to guarantee her other abilities, Q is dodgable. You can QSS/cleanse if you get hit by the Q in order to survive. But her shooting her Q requires no risk in using it and she doesn't even need to be ahead because her Q makes for free picks in the mid game for her allies to pile on. {{champion:45}} Has an easily avoidable stun that he needs to hit in order to land W. He needs to land W and q mid game and earlier in order to kill in one rotation unless fed. Late game he has to Q, then R to one shot. You can still sidestep his Q if you know he's going to try to cast it. This is just bullshit. His E is a j4 ulti at level one that last 3 seconds that stuns you for 3 seconds if you touch the edge at any point. He doesn't need to stun you, if you are in the Circle, it is near impossible for his W to miss. He also doesn't put himself at risk by using it. >{{champion:134}} - Can't kill you with just R unless obscenely fed. Generally requires qwe ---> ult to oneshot, and even then she has to be ahead in order to do it. You can sidestep her stun, which is key if she wants to setup more damage(although the hitbox is really weird on it) Lies, she can miss every Q and kill you just because of how her R works, you can't sidestep her stun if the player is competent and casts both Q and E at the same time. the travel speed is too great to be reasonably dodged. Doesn't put herself at any risk by fishing with it. >{{champion:91}} Can 100-0 at level 2, which forces his opponents to zone themselves from farm after he reaches it. His W doesn't get a lower CD per Rank and he needs to land both to do anything to you. So long as you are competent, you will be the one doing the Zoning since he runs on mana and W is his only real laning tool in terms of farm, harass or general presence. > his impossible to miss W I don't think a dumber statement has been made on this board.
Kyunsei (EUW)
: "statistically if matchmaking is working really well, you’re going to lose about half of your games"
Tc, your logic only makes sense if you as a player aren't improving and relying on your team to carry you.
: Naw dawg... don't you get it? 50-50 winrates mean things are balanced and everything is fun and working perfectly! By this logic, the most balanced game on the planet would be "coin flip simulator", where you log in, pick a character and the game just RNG's a coinflip and you win or lose before you even play the match! Everyone would have the ideal winrate and so everything would be flawlessly balanced and thus... perfect.
> [{quoted}](name=The Whamboozler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EAe1YyE2,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2018-07-13T11:44:40.379+0000) > > Naw dawg... don't you get it? 50-50 winrates mean things are balanced and everything is fun and working perfectly! > > By this logic, the most balanced game on the planet would be "coin flip simulator", where you log in, pick a character and the game just RNG's a coinflip and you win or lose before you even play the match! Everyone would have the ideal winrate and so everything would be flawlessly balanced and thus... perfect. this logic only stands if you presume that you as a player aren't getting better at the game and relying on your team to carry you.
: Kogmaw and Corki should hav their passives switched
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GUmaEZO1,comment-id=000a0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-11T19:00:59.986+0000) > > Well i like em both and largely because they are pretty similar. disagree sorry xD
> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GUmaEZO1,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-11T20:05:13.251+0000) > > disagree sorry xD why am i being downvoted?
: bro how trash are you to complain about electrocute
> [{quoted}](name=Tha Pink Panther,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vkI6TUVr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-07-12T14:10:15.925+0000) > > bro how trash are you to complain about electrocute did you even read my post?
: Riot, is there a reason you don't have your old champs archived somewhere?
Rioters have actually answered this before. It's because of the way the game is coded. League of legends isn't coded modularly. it's a big spaghetti code mess. The reason they don't just pull out the USB with Old Urgots data and keep it in a folder is because they actually can't. Instead, everything in league is like a series of tangled wires that come together to somehow form things as they function in the game. The line of code that controls all snares in the game for example is the same for every champion. The one for hitboxes is the same for every champion etc. When riot changes or removes/reworks a champion, they are in fact, largely changing the overall code of the game to make it also do things for the champion they are changing/adding, as opposed to plugging in a folder with the character data into the game. This is why they can't just keep the code for old champions. **_It doesn't really exist._**
: Blaming “damage creep” for current balance issues missed an array of much larger problems at hand
I thought we were over this already. Buffing defensive value doesn't counter damage creep because not every champ builds tank items. All buffin defense does is make Tanks unkillable.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OgjYs0xc,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T20:27:00.847+0000) > > It has a 6 second CD at max rank with max CDR. I guess you don't think 10 seconds is short? Especially during laning phase when nothing is happening. I mean blitz Q cd is 20 seconds but it seems like it's up all the time. Not only that, it's not the only ability she can use and it lasts for a good bit of seconds. That's like saying morg's q only has an 11 second cd. Yeah, but if it lands, you're rooted for 2 seconds so really, her cd is 9 seconds and that is no time at all. If Lulu only had a w and e to work with, this post wouldn't make sense, but she can rotate through each ability making the cd on one ability seem shorter than how short it actually is. I'm not arguing about her w and e. I'm arguing about her usage, passive, q, w, e, and r all together. Champs are supposed to have unique play styles to them. If you pick a poke support then they're supposed to poke and only poke, like zyra or lux. You want sustain, pick champs like soraka, nami, or janna. You want utility, pick zilean or karma. Champs shouldn't have multiple or diverse playstyles. The items they buy are the only things that should have diversity. When you have a champ like Lulu who can poke, then sustain herself to avoid damage in trades, then boost her speed so the enemy is out of reach or slow them, you create cancer. Karma is the same, nami is the same. You don't overload the champ. Especially not the support.
> [{quoted}](name=okamiyasha95,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OgjYs0xc,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-30T05:48:03.141+0000) > > I guess you don't think 10 seconds is short? 10 seconds is the length of 3 team fights.... >Especially during laning phase when nothing is happening. It's actually at 16 seconds in laning phase and lasts like 1 second at that point in the game. Using it will lead to your death because it lasts too short for the range it has and how little MS Lulu has. Complaining about it in laning phase is silly. >I mean blitz Q cd is 20 seconds but it seems like it's up all the time. Not comparable. Blitz Q has WAy more offensive pressure than Lulu's W. Not only does it making him an incredible Zoner, but its a long ranged skill shot with way more pick potential, as it displaces his target to him. Polymorph does no such thing, is a point and click short range spell, and doesn't even hard CC the person let alone move them anywhere. And unlike Blitz, Lulu is made of paper. At this point in the game, she is better of using it on herself for the speedboost and atk speed. You'd only use the Poly in a gank, assuming you are in position to us it at all. >Not only that, it's not the only ability she can use and it lasts for a good bit of seconds. If Lulu uses her Polymoph, she locks herself out of using the speed boost for 16 seconds, and vice versa. Lulu has to choose between her spells based on the situation because they aren't separate spells, btu spells that do something different depending on her target. Comparing it to having an extra spell is disingenuous. >That's like saying morg's q only has an 11 second cd. Yeah, but if it lands, you're rooted for 2 seconds so really, her cd is 9 seconds and that is no time at all. again, this isn't; comparable. Morg's Q is a 3 second snare skillshot that can be free thrown at no cost and proves zoning. > If Lulu only had a w and e to work with, this post wouldn't make sense, but she can rotate through each ability making the cd on one ability seem shorter than how short it actually is. this proves to me you've never played the champion because that not only makes no sense but isn't even true. > I'm not arguing about her w and e. I'm arguing about her usage, passive, q, w, e, and r all together. \ So basically every champion in the game...? Why is lulu put on the burner specifically then? > Champs are supposed to have unique play styles to them. If you pick a poke support then they're supposed to poke and only poke, like zyra or lux. Both Lux and Zyra also have create Pick potential, Burst and in the case of Lux, utility and protection in the form of her Slows and Shields........ Not the best example for your point. But hat said, Lulu DOES have a specific and focused playstyle. She is based on empowering allies and debuffing enemies. >You want sustain, pick champs like soraka, nami, or janna. Soraka also has an AOE silence and peel. Name also has tons of pick potential, peal, ability to empower allies and damage, poke. Janna is the disengage queen on top of buffing her allies damage. >You want utility, pick zilean or karma. Both Zilean and karma also prove a large amount of damage mitigation, CC, damage and DPS. >Champs shouldn't have multiple or diverse playstyles. I mean, i fundamentally disagree, but that is beyond the point because really, Lulu doesn't even have that. Champs SHOULD have tons of play styles. It's just that they shouldn't have all of them at once. You should have to pick which part soif the champions you wanna focus on at the expense of others as opposed to being a single perfected all rounded cylinder that is rigid but always at 100 efficiency, because that goes against strategy and turns league into a weird half based fighting game. >The items they buy are the only things that should have diversity. The diversity of items is irrelevant if the champs kit shave no diversity, because then you have no reason to buy different items at all. >When you have a champ like Lulu who can poke, then sustain herself to avoid damage in trades, then boost her speed so the enemy is out of reach or slow them, you create cancer. Lulu's poke is trash. She has 0 sustain. You have no idea what you're talking about. >Karma is the same, nami is the same. You don't overload the champ. Especially not the support. Ignoring the implication that somehow some champs being overloaded isn't as much a problem if they aren't support (because that's just stupid) you can't just mindlessly claim "lol this champ is overloaded" and call it an argument. The statements you made show you not only know very little about the champ you are complaining about, but the game at large.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34zJBlM3,comment-id=0000000300000001000100000001,timestamp=2018-07-05T21:36:26.625+0000) > > That's not how it works. > What is being converted to True damage is the damage you WOULD have taken anyway. > The reason it is made into True damage is so that it isn't being checked and mitigated twice by your resistances. > > That Caitlyn Ult is killing you regardless of you having the item or not. I wouldn't know. The wikia didn't say this specifically.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34zJBlM3,comment-id=00000003000000010001000000010000,timestamp=2018-07-06T06:27:47.495+0000) > > I wouldn't know. The wikia didn't say this specifically. Lets give an example. Let's say Cait Ulti hits you. Because of your Armor, it does 1000 damage. Because of Death's dance, you only take 700 upfront and the rest is turned into the Bleed. You bleed for 300 damage. If that Bleed wasn't true damage, your armor would mitigate that bleed and you'd actually take less damage than you should. EDIT: Additionally, it would probably make it so {{item:3071}} would apply itself over the bleed, potentially making you take MORE damage than you should. The reason its converted to true damage is so that you receive exactly the right amount of damage you should have.
saltran (EUW)
: Because her passive was butchered with the IE change and she needed the dmg there and not other buffs.
> [{quoted}](name=saltran,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4VnwXvkg,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2018-07-06T07:10:22.695+0000) > > Because her passive was butchered with the IE change and she needed the dmg there and not other buffs. That interaction was stupid and busted to begin with tho. Because it effectively multiplies into itself. Why is it okay for her to be doing 1k plus damage in a single auto?
Glory97 (EUW)
: I didn't disagree on talon being too strong at the moment. But right now we are discussing his lvl 2 all in potential (in comparison to kata). And nimbus cloak, which only procs when casting the ultimate is quite irrelevant for his lvl 2 all in. Changes to the domination tree didn't have a significant impact on talons lvl 2 either.
> [{quoted}](name=Glory97,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PmWVsAdY,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2018-07-04T15:09:56.138+0000) > > I didn't disagree on talon being too strong at the moment. But right now we are discussing his lvl 2 all in potential (in comparison to kata). > And nimbus cloak, which only procs when casting the ultimate is quite irrelevant for his lvl 2 all in. Changes to the domination tree didn't have a significant impact on talons lvl 2 either. Why is Talon's all in at level 2 relevant tho? So he can do so, so what? if he successfully does it, it is because the enemy misplayed sinc ehis W is so easy to dodge. And ofc the rune changes affected Talon. They kept buffing the Tree's stats and Talon's passive scales really well. The difference between a long sword and no lon sword on his passive is a lot more than you'd think.
: Liandries is a weaker argument than Zhonya's or Banshee's, for sure. But it's an important example to me *because* of what you said. For the user, it feels like free stats, but the implications of the passive give clear counterplay to the opponent, as well. That is, realistically, what I want to happen with Duskblade. You may be right, though, that Liandries is also an offender. Meddler mentioned buffs, and I think if it's too strong, it will become a lot like Duskblade for some users. That would not be a good thing.
> [{quoted}](name=KnightsKemplar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=34zJBlM3,comment-id=0000000700010000,timestamp=2018-07-05T22:14:41.128+0000) > > Liandries is a weaker argument than Zhonya's or Banshee's, for sure. > For the user, it feels like free stats, but the implications of the passive give clear counterplay to the opponent, as well. In what way really? because outside of "don't get hit" and "don't fight the champion if you don't instantly delete them" i don't see how it does that at all.
Ahpe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=91VnRTqO,comment-id=001400000000,timestamp=2018-07-11T18:58:23.266+0000) > > such as? Go to the "History" tab and you'll find all her patch notes http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zoe
> [{quoted}](name=Ahpe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=91VnRTqO,comment-id=0014000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-11T19:53:05.501+0000) > > Go to the "History" tab and you'll find all her patch notes > > http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Zoe Gotta wonder if you even checked ti because outside of the mana change that ALL the mages got, nothing happened after the Zoe gutting patch i was referring to.
Mogarl (NA)
: > Ludens scales off of Ap which is the highest single scaling stat in the game Duskblade's proc scales up to 200 based on level. Ludens can reach that high if a champion has 1000 ap. Since that doesn't happen My claim of Duskblade scaling higher in its single target burst is completely accurate. On top of that if being one shot by ap is a problem there is always a good option for you. So reaching full penetration on an enemy is pretty unlikely. (AD on the other hand you better be a tank/fighter or like stasis) > One is also far more easy to make use of by its class. This is a point in my favor. Ludens isn't exceptionaly more effective on any one mage really. Although it is mostly only used by burst mages it doesn't have any of the game bending abuse cases duskblade had/has. This makes it easier to balance, and healthier. > Duskblade requires you get into melee and auto, and to refresh requires you to get out of sight, which granted, is easier on some champs than others, but it still is far more restrictive overall than Luden's proc. 1. Echo is unlikely to proc more than once in a fight on any mage. Nightstalker can on some champions, but not all. That is the core of the health issue with it. 2. Echo's use case isn't for a killing combo. Nightstalker is, so Nightstalker will either be weak such that it's not worth it, or strong such that it allows the assassin to 100-0. > Ludens also offers the buyer MUCH more overall for the slot than Duskblade does. > It offers 20% CDR, tons of mana and much more relative AP than Duskblade provides in AD. It also costs an additional 300 gold, and doesn't build out of just longswords. Duskblade's highest gold amount ever required is 700 when you combine it's two components. Whereas Ludens has a blasting wand (850) and it's combine cost of 1050. Duskblade is a cheap low risk item. Fortunately Riot didn't give it better stats than it should have. > False, magic resist is both more expensive and there is less of in in the game than Armor. Magic resist is easier to acquire not cheaper to purchase. 7/14 mr items are focused on tanks. 13/16 armor items are focused on tanks. Armor might be cheaper but MR has more options and is easier to fit into your build. 1 MR is also just flat out worth more in protection than 1 Armor as well though so that gold cost isn't that relevant. > it really doesn't. Name one abuse case, and tell me why it's abusing the item. For an example Kha'zix abuses Duskblade by having such consistent use of its passive either he or the item have to be balanced around the other.
> [{quoted}](name=Mogarl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m1LPHOL2,comment-id=001a0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-12T05:46:20.591+0000) > > Duskblade's proc scales up to 200 based on level. Ludens can reach that high if a champion has 1000 ap. Since that doesn't happen My claim of Duskblade scaling higher in its single target burst is completely accurate. On top of that if being one shot by ap is a problem there is always a good option for you. So reaching full penetration on an enemy is pretty unlikely. (AD on the other hand you better be a tank/fighter or like stasis) This require soyu to artificially remove all the use cases of the item that would show its damage stacks up far more than duskblades over the course of a game. > This is a point in my favor. Ludens isn't exceptionally more effective on any one mage really. Although it is mostly only used by burst mages it doesn't have any of the game bending abuse cases duskblade had/has. This makes it easier to balance, and healthier. No it isn't. Ludens is far more warping BECAUSE so many people can abuse it. Duskblade is used by like 4 champions because they are the ones that can use it. Ludens is currently used on pretty much all mages currently save for Swain,Anivia and Casseopia. Do you not know what gamewarpign means? > 1. Echo is unlikely to proc more than once in a fight on any mage. Nightstalker can on some champions, but not all. That is the core of the health issue with it. This is a lie. The thing stacks up both from casting spells and movement. You will easily proc it at least 3 times a team fight, and that's if you are a higher CD mage and we assume you are never poking before of after the teamfight. By contrast, an assassin procs it once, maybe twice if they have a mechanic in their kit to reset it, and they are only hitting one person while Ludens hits up to 5. Your entire comprehension of balance is utterly warped dude. > 2. Echo's use case isn't for a killing combo. Nightstalker is, so Nightstalker will either be weak such that it's not worth it, or strong such that it allows the assassin to 100-0. Echoes use cases are vast and basically unlimited, its always been a flawed item in design because there is no reason a mage wouldnt want it unless they want something else MORE. DPS mage? Your ability cats make it stack faster for more procs. Burst mage? it gives you a nice chunk of flat damage to your rotation. Poke mage? Gives you a nice flat chunk of damage on your Poke. AP Assassin? The thing stacks from your movement/dashes, and gives you nice chunk of flat damage on your all-in. Literally the only time the item isn't a must pick is when there is a more OP item at the time. > It also costs an additional 300 gold, and doesn't build out of just longswords. nice anti-AD bias. Instead it builds out of an infinite mana item. {{item:3802}} >Duskblade's highest gold amount ever required is 700 when you combine it's two components. Whereas Ludens has a blasting wand (850) and it's combine cost of 1050. Duskblade is a cheap low risk item. Fortunately Riot didn't give it better stats than it should have. yea, its almost like Ludens is a better item and has much more to offer statwise, thus the higher price point. Shocker. > Magic resist is easier to acquire not cheaper to purchase. This doesn't make any sense. 7/14 mr items are focused on tanks. 13/16 armor items are focused on tanks. Why does this matter? > Armor might be cheaper but MR has more options and is easier to fit into your build. No it isn't and doesn't tho. you have WAY more options for Armor whereas for MR you have like 3 items. >1 MR is also just flat out worth more in protection than 1 Armor as well though so that gold cost isn't that relevant. How is this supposed to prove your point exactly? > Name one abuse case, and tell me why it's abusing the item. For an example Kha'zix abuses Duskblade by having such consistent use of its passive either he or the item have to be balanced around the other. The current state of the game isn't relevant to the design of an item being balanced or not. Luden's has been game warping every time it was good, but even that thats beside smy point. The point i am making is "why is Duskblade's damage proc bad for being "just more damage" but Luden's is okay despite also being "just more damage"? Because beyond the fact that "one is for mages and the other is for AD assassins" i really don't see a fundamental difference.
: Okay but the post was for defensive options for aps against ads sooooooo
> [{quoted}](name=Yandere GF,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6zR4txQj,comment-id=000b0001,timestamp=2018-07-09T05:11:12.271+0000) > > Okay but the post was for defensive options for aps against ads sooooooo No, the post was saying that Null orb is favor of AD champions.
: Oh, I don't know , perhaps the 1000 true damage nukes from half the map ?
> [{quoted}](name=DoktorKaiser,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=APUKaFqN,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-06-26T23:12:04.345+0000) > > Oh, I don't know , perhaps the 1000 true damage nukes from half the map ? **Last I checked, large amounts of long ranged damage was Artillery mages thing, not an assassins....** Also, Ive been over this already but Zoe's True damage isn't really "true damage". What actually happens is it reaplies her E damage again. the reason it is calc'd as true damage is so that it isn't being mitigated twice by your MR. It's the same reason {{item:3812}}'s bleed is true damage.
Ifneth (NA)
: That doesn’t matter. No-one here has put forward any evidence or specified how much damage is or should be in the game, much less even clearly made a case for that there was some alleged ‘low-damage’ past that you’re implying I missed. Not even you.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2UEomQ3,comment-id=001600000000,timestamp=2018-07-12T01:07:17.384+0000) > > That doesn’t matter. Of course it does. > No-one here has put forward any evidence or specified how much damage is or should be in the game, much less even clearly made a case for that there was some alleged ‘low-damage’ past that you’re implying I missed. Less than now. > Not even you. That's because most people who have actually played this game for a long enough time remember that damage wasn't this high in the past. A lot of time nowadays, you so much as get accidentally clipped by one spell or instance of damage and you basically need to exit the fight or else you will die in a second's time. This wasn't the case in the past.
Rioter Comments
: Meddler: What if, we brought back thunderlords, but made it to 5 times the damage but only assassins can use it. The sheep at riot games: *clapclapclapclapclap*
>only assassins can use it. Why lie?
: Does anyone miss Thunderlord's Degree?
No, and i don't enjoy Electrocute taking its place either. Both are cancer on the game.
: How come Swain ult doesn't drain stealthed/enemies in bushes?
Talon's W still doesn't make a sound when you hit people in a bush or if they are not visible, despite doing so before his rework. Why? hell if i know.
Ifneth (NA)
: Has anyone here actually read over years of patch notes and developed your own opinion based on the facts, or are you all just agreeing with each other because you ‘feel’ like there’s more damage and a whole bunch of other players already said so by the time you commented? From my experience, damage is where it’s always been. My champ hits harder than she used to, but only as compensation for a rework that removed a lot of utility that was broken in highly skilled and professional play. I almost never feel like I lack time to react or kill enemies before they have a chance. Even when caught by multiple enemies, I have enough time to decide whether to Flash or Zhonya’s or use a defensive summoner spell. Maybe with a 2-3k gold lead, double flat pen, and a full combo on a very squishy target like Janna, I could do the damage before my hard crowd control ended. When on Marksmen, I don’t hit very hard until at least two on Ezreal or three items on Ashe. If the enemy buys armor, then I’m not doing much until I get at least Infinity Edge if not also Mortal Reminder. I don’t see any damage creep.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j2UEomQ3,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2018-07-11T13:24:21.234+0000) > > Has anyone here actually read over years of patch notes and developed your own opinion based on the facts, or are you all just agreeing with each other because you ‘feel’ like there’s more damage and a whole bunch of other players already said so by the time you commented? How long have you been playing exactly?
Acheron16 (EUW)
: So you play Talon, press R and Q = squishy should always die? Play as Zed, press R, press W spam Q and E = squishy should always die? If anyone is entitled in here it's you. Doesn't matter who or what class you're playing, no one should be able to delete someone by default.
> [{quoted}](name=Acheron16,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2zY4W8UA,comment-id=000b0000000000000000,timestamp=2018-07-06T21:14:29.451+0000) > So you play Talon, press R and Q = squishy should always die? 1. I never said this. 2. Unless the Talon is already fed, this won't happen. If the MF is out alone and the fizz gets the jump on her, assuming he has any items at all, yes he should have the large advantage in that fight. he's an assassin. > Play as Zed, press R, press W spam Q and E = squishy should always die? If Zed lands all his shit and has a substantial amount of gold, and they are alone by themselves, yea. What? he should just wallow into uselessness and never be able to accomplish anythign because he isn't 12/0 by 2 minutes? Even when played correctly and abusing an enemy mistake? Makes no sense. > If anyone is entitled in here it's you. Doesn't matter who or what class you're playing, no one should be able to delete someone by default. Entitled to what? i don't even play Fizz or Zed. Hell, i HATE those champs. Been spending too much time with other things than this game, and when i play i just play Urf or support lol. Meanwhile, you are here saying that you should be able to 1v1 assassins when they catch you out of position just because they didn't get a kill during the laning phase._ Because apparently kills are the only source of gold in this game, amirite?_
: Instant Rake, instant blink with silence and slow, istant bleed on Q. Also had 15% magic resistance as a passive. With ArPen marks & quints, {{summoner:14}} {{item:1036}} {{item:2003}} {{item:2003}} {{item:2003}} , you could 100-0 a {{champion:45}} {{champion:103}} at level 3 with 1 spell rotation. I don't know what League you were playing, but was the unanimous king of 1st blood.
> [{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o2Kh4Nq0,comment-id=00130000,timestamp=2018-07-09T22:19:04.987+0000) > > Instant Rake, That did 2 damage each pass and cost him a third of his mana bar. > instant blink with silence and slow, That lasted less than a second. Also, it never did both at the same time over the course of the abilities existence. > instant bleed on Q. That did less damage than most champions base HP regen over its very long duration. >Also had 15% magic resistance as a passive. ????????? No he didn't. Why are you making shit up? > With ArPen marks & quints, {{summoner:14}} {{item:1036}} {{item:2003}} {{item:2003}} {{item:2003}} , you could 100-0 a {{champion:45}} {{champion:103}} at level 3 with 1 spell rotation. No he couldn't. Stop making shit up. > I don't know what League you were playing, but was the unanimous king of 1st blood. Talon didn't become king of first bloods till his rework. So no, I should be asking you what you are talkign about.
Mogarl (NA)
: one-shotting > aoe is a large part of it. {{item:3285}} isn't by any means perfect, but It doesn't scale nearly as well as {{item:3147}}. A rational build might get 160 magic damage before resistances on a single target out of ludens near the end of the game. Add that to the fact that Ludens is a more expensive item, magic resist is easier to acquire than armor, and Ludens has far fewer abuse cases.
> [{quoted}](name=Mogarl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m1LPHOL2,comment-id=001a00000000,timestamp=2018-07-09T05:39:12.648+0000) > > one-shotting > aoe is a large part of it. > > {{item:3285}} isn't by any means perfect, but It doesn't scale nearly as well as {{item:3147}}. This isn't even true. Ludens scales off of Ap which is the highest single scaling stat in the game Duskblades scaling was actually nerfed into the ground and it only scales with 2 other items and a single rune. One is also far more easy to make use of by its class. All a mage needs to do is shoot some spells and they just get free damage every once and awhile. Duskblade requires you get into melee and auto, and to refresh requires you to get out of sight, which granted, is easier on some champs than others, but it still is far more restrictive overall than Luden's proc. Luden's also hits multiple people and helps with waveclear as it can be used on minions. >A rational build might get 160 magic damage before resistances on a single target out of ludens near the end of the game. Read the above. That is because Luden's damage is easier to abuse. >Add that to the fact that Ludens is a more expensive item. Ludens also offers the buyer MUCH more overall for the slot than Duskblade does. It offers 20% CDR, tons of mana and much more relative AP than Duskblade provides in AD. >magic resist is easier to acquire than armor, False, magic resist is both more expensive and there is less of in in the game than Armor. >and Ludens has far fewer abuse cases. it really doesn't. Assassins are strong now, but duskblade is the least of the reasons why. Electrocute, the general buffs to the Domination tree and ignite play way more into that.
: Because comparing Luden's to Duskblade is like comparing Trinity to {{item:3153}} just because they both have damage.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m1LPHOL2,comment-id=001a00000001,timestamp=2018-07-09T21:16:18.954+0000) > > Because comparing Luden's to Duskblade is like comparing Trinity to {{item:3153}} just because they both have damage. You are missing the point. They said the problem with Duskblade is that it just give syou free damage. Luden's gives you that. Why is it okay but Duskblade Is bad beyond the champions that buy them?
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaddyFantome,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GUmaEZO1,comment-id=000a00000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T18:24:10.836+0000) > > So same reason people bitch about Lulu then. {{champion:117}} > {{sticker:sg-lulu}} Nope, i'm big fan of lulu and i really love her so much. Her voice, character and kit is fun honestly but zoe character, voice and ofcourse kit give me the cringe really
> [{quoted}](name=ValiantKiller,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GUmaEZO1,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-28T18:57:03.702+0000) > > Nope, i'm big fan of lulu and i really love her so much. > Her voice, character and kit is fun honestly but zoe character, voice and ofcourse kit give me the cringe really Well i like em both and largely because they are pretty similar.
Ahpe (NA)
: Hey uh buddy didn't you get the memo? She starting getting numerous buffs like 4 patches after.
> [{quoted}](name=Ahpe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=91VnRTqO,comment-id=00140000,timestamp=2018-07-10T05:10:17.813+0000) > > Hey uh buddy didn't you get the memo? She starting getting numerous buffs like 4 patches after. such as?
Anin777 (EUW)
: Nope. To surpass him. After those 2 items, they are probably at 30% CDR and have more hp than Yas. Easy to destroy. If you want to talk about BS level 1, talk about MF Q that chunks 1/3 of enemy hp.
> [{quoted}](name=Anin777,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LwrAqwaf,comment-id=00160000000200000000,timestamp=2018-07-11T18:41:44.105+0000) > > Nope. To surpass him. After those 2 items, they are probably at 30% CDR and have more hp than Yas. Easy to destroy. If you want to talk about BS level 1, talk about MF Q that chunks 1/3 of enemy hp. Yasuo doesn't even need CDR because his kit already has like 0 CDs and he gets CDR on his Q for building both CDR AND attack speed...... but yea, comparing that to 3000g down payment for the same thing proves its better than yas.. totes.
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ChaddyFantome

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