: Why is {{champion:62}} who's an actual jungle monkey not getting anything at all? Favoritism, they buff their fav champs in blink of an eye, but when it comes to other champs "uhhh, we think he needs major work but not in the near future".
Oh how weve come full circle. I remember the days when it was "Wukong isnt a jungler!!" threads were popular, and it was an aberration that the AD/Assassination/Wombo monkey was even allowed to jungle.
: > [{quoted}](name=The MechE,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ghtzeWLs,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-09T22:17:19.326+0000) > > > Just sayin'. OW is a completed game without the extra cosmetics. https://www.halopedia.org/images/thumb/0/0e/H5_final_cover_art.png/300px-H5_final_cover_art.png (Has a single player campaign.) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Advanced_Warfare.jpg (Has a single player campaign.) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Titanfall_box_art.jpg (Has a single player campaign.) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Borderlands2boxart3.jpg (Has a single player campaign.) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/7/76/CoverArt-GTAV.png/revision/latest?cb=20130826184215 (Has a single player campaign.) https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/a/a2/Super_Smash_Bros_for_Wii_U_Box_Art.png/revision/latest?cb=20150212160930 (Has a single player campaign.) http://gamepreorders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/overwatch-cover.jpg (DOES NOT have a single player campaign.)
> [{quoted}](name=DragonTroopBeta,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ghtzeWLs,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-09T22:22:28.025+0000) > > https://www.halopedia.org/images/thumb/0/0e/H5_final_cover_art.png/300px-H5_final_cover_art.png > (Has a single player campaign.) > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/3/3b/Advanced_Warfare.jpg > (Has a single player campaign.) > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/84/Titanfall_box_art.jpg > (Has a single player campaign.) > > https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/77/Borderlands2boxart3.jpg > (Has a single player campaign.) > > https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/gtawiki/images/7/76/CoverArt-GTAV.png/revision/latest?cb=20130826184215 > (Has a single player campaign.) > > https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/ssb/images/a/a2/Super_Smash_Bros_for_Wii_U_Box_Art.png/revision/latest?cb=20150212160930 > (Has a single player campaign.) > > http://gamepreorders.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/03/overwatch-cover.jpg > (DOES NOT have a single player campaign.) What does having a single player campaign have anything to do with a completed game? If its a multiplayer only game, then its a completed game without having a single player option. Just like if its a single-player only game, it doesnt need a multiplayer aspect to be completed. You dont see people say Fallout4 isnt completed because it lacks multiplayer modes, right? Because you know when you purchase the game that its a single-player only game. And Overwatch isnt pay to win. When you purchase the game, you have everything you need to play the game whether youre a novice or a professional. League is actually more pay-to-win than Overwatch is.
: What Riot says: * 0.006% permabanned * 1/2 of players reform at each punishment tier Working the math backwards: * 0.006% permabanned \* 2 = 0.012% get 14 day ban * 0.012% 14 day ban \* 2 = 0.024% get 25 game chat restriction * 0.024% 25 game chat restriction \* 2 = 0.048% get 10 game chat restrictions If we round up to 0.05% to make the math easier, then you end up with: * 1 player chat restricted for every 2,000 players * 1 player chat restricted for every 200 games * 1 teammate chat restricted for 500 games Now tell me. Do you *honestly* believe that the negativity in League is so minor that only one teammate in your last 500 games deserved a 10 game chat restriction? One of the numbers Riot gave us is wrong, and my money is on the 0.006%
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1qkd8Ols,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-10-09T18:23:15.356+0000) > > Now tell me. Do you *honestly* believe that the negativity in League is so minor that only one teammate in your last 500 games deserved a 10 game chat restriction? No. But if they were chat restricted, they wouldnt be allowed to be negative, right?
: They made a good team play, but ultimately Twitch's ult carried that team fight. Everyone who was watching knows it. Also, stop writing books man. Nobody is going to read your shit when it's obnoxiously long.
Youre wrong. I can prove it, but theres no point in actually giving the numbers to someone who complains about a little bit of reading. Edit - watch it in slow motion if you dont believe me. Look at the damage Twitch does. Its not amazing.
: Actually, no, they didn't. If you watch the replay, they had red side blue lit up completely, and they were just coming back from seiging bot lane. They had no chance to set up vision before the wombo, and SKT took advantage of that _**EXTREMELY**_ small window.
Meaning they failed on vision. SKT had the foresight to ward Baron BEFORE the siege, 2 minutes before Baron spawned. Why didnt EDG do the same? Instead they backed and went straight bot without thinking about it. They left one ward in Red that would time out before Baron spawned. And even without vision, why did Clearlove unburrow? RekSai could have used her tremor sense to notice that the enemy team was in that brush - but by the time Clearlove burrows, the initiation was already starting. And if they were going toward Baron, why didnt iBoy use his trinket for that brush? All you need to do is scout that brush with your blue trinket and shoot a RekSai Q in the brush into the river for a clear path to Baron. Plus, having 4 members of your team grouped tightly together isnt great positioning against a wombo teamcomp. I mean, I get that its a lot harder to coordinate than it seems, but EDG had the tools to not get engaged on. They just screwed up executing it against a scaling wombo comp thats a lot easier to win fights with.
: > [{quoted}](name=Paleo Electro,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=q0IqdwYH,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-06T14:17:57.049+0000) > > And what makes you think allowed him to get to that point? > > Remember, that Twitch was 0/0/0 without a single objective taken before the wombo. I would be far more terrified of the 3/0/6 Xayah with several objectives down. > > Twitch. > Did not. > Win. > This game. You're wrong. Even the casters mentioned it, that Twitch being 0/0/0 was the reason they won the game. It was because while all lane were failing, Twitch being 0/0/0 actually kept pressure on the map for the comeback and to actually have enough experience in level to do damage. While they pulled the wombo combo, it was Twitch who popped his ultimate and did damage to the entirety of the team while they were locked down. It was Twitch who kept pressure on bot lane while everyone else was dying and it was Twitch who kept EDG from snowballing because they were afraid to get caught out. It was Bang's Twitch that helped SKT get back into the game from a falling state. As I mentioned before, even the Casters mentioned this.
Actually, youre wrong. 1. Youre too focused on what Twitch did to realize one simple thing - what would have happened if Bang was on a different champ? Any ADC in that position (IE + Runnans, 4 members of the enemy team CCed, no enemy tank with the most armor bought being a Zhonyas + your Cho instadeleting the support before they have time to locket) would thrive. Doesnt matter if it was Xayah, Trist, Kalista, Varus, Ashe, or whomever. Any ADC would have done enough damage to win the fight if they are free hitting armorless opponents who are chain cc-ed. 2. What game did you watch? Twitch alone wasnt doing much to stop EDG from snowballing - in fact, nothing stopped EDG from snowballing. EDG snowballed pretty damn hard until that point. But snowballing doesnt ensure a victory if you dont play to your comp's strengths and allow the enemy to play into their comp's strengths. EDG just screwed up. Its that simple. EDG's comp was focused around getting an early lead since they didnt choose to scale. But part of keeping that lead means not making mistakes. EDG had 3 pink wards and full vision of SKT's blue side, but none on the red side or Baron which was spawning. Theres a reason why the meta is the meta. Its cause when you play off-meta, you really do need to play a perfect game. If they chose more Meta champions like Maokai or Gragas, they could have disengaged the fight. If they had someone like a Syndra they could have disengaged as well. But EDG decided to go all-in on a earlygame comp, and you saw what happens when you get caught by a lategame comp built around the 5v5. Why were they going toward midlane where they have zero wards against a comp with 4 players who can engage and no tank on their side? WHY WASNT CLEARLOVE BURROWED SO HE CAN USE HIS TREMOR SENSE TO SEE THE PLAY COMING? Oh - Clearlove decided that clearing mid (even though his team can clear without him) was more important than vision. Clearlove, Scout, IBoy, and Meiko grouped up as 4 against a team with AoE hard engage from fog. Mouse wiffs his ult. EDG had all 10 summoners up and none of them dodged the initiation. EDG screwed up. It was for just a second, but they screwed up. Thats what lost them the game.
Tik115 (NA)
: New missions and......Hold up
If ARAM and rotating game modes count (and they did count toward the ones that said "win X PvP games) it shouldnt be too bad.
Fosty (EUNE)
: Revert Azirs Wall nerf and make it stay for 3/4/5 seconds
Preparing to get downvoted to hell, but I always hated the bounceback. I mean, it was one of the stupidest mechanics in the game. Jarvan doesnt have it with his "impassible" terrain. Taliyah doesnt have it with her "impassive terrain". Trundle doesnt have it. Anivia doesnt have it. The freakin walls on Summoners Rift dont have it. Never understood why Azir did. Its not like you lost your peel - you still can peel someone diving. They dive on you, you ult, they get knocked back. Kinda like every other peel in the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=2nd Chance,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Q4rfvcq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-13T20:51:26.970+0000) > > Except they didn't nerf what made her strong, which is stat dump a ADC, yet that is (but I'm going to remain skeptical on that possible 'yet' until they actually do it) > > Her shield still gives the ad it usually does and there aren't any changes to Ardent Censer ether > > All they did was nerf her w that wasn't the problem, put some power shift buffs in Q too which she didn't need, messed around with her base stats which also weren't a problem (which might given that auto range buff possibly) and for all weird reasons change her passive to pretty much make her a kinda AP version of Hecarim with her auto attacks at the cost of some of it's movement speed > > All in all, they just showed they have no idea what they're doing again like usual if anything Lul why is this guy downvoted ????
> [{quoted}](name=SkeltzAlukard,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Q4rfvcq,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-09-14T00:01:07.446+0000) > > Lul why is this guy downvoted ???? Well, > [{quoted}](name=2nd Chance,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=4Q4rfvcq,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-13T20:51:26.970+0000) > > Except they didn't nerf what made her strong, which is stat dump on a ADC Except the change was: >Eye of the Storm (E) Cooldoown changed from 10 at all ranks to 18/16/14/12/10 Thats actually the biggest part of her they nerfed (while buffing the Q)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaoticPinecone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-09-11T20:54:26.703+0000) > > Its funny how you use an example of Tristana. > > Trist is supposed to have waveclear. Shiv helps out, sure. But Trist isnt a single-target ADC when taking down minion waves. > > ___________________________ > > ...and in your clip Trist had to get 3 shiv procs + baron empowered minions to clear that wave from distance. > > I get that you might not want ADCs to have wavelcear, but making stuff up doesnt help your cause. It wanst, &quot;One minion wave gone, in one hit.&quot; ughhh I'm using Tristana now because she is popular. If I use someone that isn't popular, the people who defend these items, automatically jump the gun and say X champion has <50% winrate..My point still stands, the champion, even Tristana benefit too much from these two items. It does nothing to lower their single target damage but tremendously increase their wave clear. You took your time to take apart my tristana video but won't' say a word about a champion like Cait... And, no i did not lie. She wave cleared the minion wave with ONE auto WHEN the SS was active. Please don't forget, the reason the minion wave didn't die the first time was because the champion took the damage from the SS. That's equivalent to saying "i couldn't burst X champion, Bron's shield got in the way"
> [{quoted}](name=xJLx MCHammer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LUvRym7X,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-09-11T21:08:56.284+0000) > > ughhh Is my reaction when reading your post > I&#x27;m using Tristana now because she is popular. If I use someone that isn&#x27;t popular, the people who defend these items, automatically jump the gun and say X champion has &lt;50% winrate..My point still stands, the champion, even Tristana benefit too much from these two items. It does nothing to lower their single target damage but tremendously increase their wave clear. You took your time to take apart my tristana video but won&#x27;t&#x27; say a word about a champion like Cait... Cait has, and always had, her Q for waveclear. Thats why Lulu+Cait comps were so popular back in like S3 or S4. Lulu Q (prenerf) and Cait Q would clear a wave with a couple autos on the melees, allowing you to hit the quick level 2 on a lane-dominant champion. Cait is supposed to have waveclear. > And, no i did not lie. She wave cleared the minion wave with ONE auto WHEN the SS was active. Please don&#x27;t forget, the reason the minion wave didn&#x27;t die the first time was because the champion took the damage from the SS. That&#x27;s equivalent to saying &quot;i couldn&#x27;t burst X champion, Bron&#x27;s shield got in the way&quot; {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}} Watch it again. 3 separate autos, 3 separate stattik shiv procs which damage the wave (and it doesnt matter if it hits a champion or not - the bounce procs do the same amount of damage whether your first target was a champion or a minion). And even that didnt completely clear the wave - the melees died to baron empowered minions. Youre trying to spread a false narrative, and thats a lie. I mean, telling the truth isnt hard - Trist cleared a wave with a few Stattik procs. Whats the big deal? Why is that so hard to do? It still gets the point across - Trist has access to AoE waveclear that is not in her kit. And you dont need to lie to do it.
: Remove waveclear from ADC itemization
Its funny how you use an example of Tristana. > PASSIVE: Enemies explode when slain by Tristana's basic attacks, dealing magic damage to all nearby enemies. > ACTIVE: Tristana places an explosive charge on the target enemy or enemy turret. After 4 seconds the charge explodes, dealing physical damage to nearby enemies. The explosion radius is doubled when used on a turret. Trist is supposed to have waveclear. Shiv helps out, sure. But Trist isnt a single-target ADC when taking down minion waves. ___________________________ ...and in your clip Trist had to get 3 shiv procs + baron empowered minions to clear that wave from distance. I get that you might not want ADCs to have wavelcear, but making stuff up doesnt help your cause. It wanst, "One minion wave gone, in one hit."
: > [{quoted}](name=Riot Defaultchar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dYHJ9rgE,comment-id=0020,timestamp=2017-09-07T21:33:01.277+0000) > > Responding to two different sentiments somewhat quickly: > > 1) Re: Premade vs Solo: > **In Short: As a solo player, you can get whichever of the two rewards you prefer, without ever entering a premade. ** > > The goal of the mission layout was to actually make you feel like you had a clear/ reasonable path to rewards as a Solo Player. That said, looks like the way they&#x27;re displayed is throwing people off (You don&#x27;t see the full flowchart), so that&#x27;s something we&#x27;ll talk about going forward > > There&#x27;s 6 missions total: 3 of them should require a premade (Get an S and the two team comps) and 3 don&#x27;t (Beat base, Win as all 3 roles, Get an A). If one of those in the second set isn&#x27;t unlocking as a solo, that&#x27;s a bug: Please let me know and we&#x27;ll try to sort it out as quickly as possible (There is some update lag we&#x27;re seeing: Once you win the game, if your mission isn&#x27;t updating, try leaving the EoG, then Close + Re-open mission tab) > > Both &quot;Sets&quot; of missions give a total of 4 tokens. So as a solo player, completing every mission gets you one of your choice. > > The 2 missions we chose required premades because for the team compositions, we wanted to avoid as much champ select tension as reasonably possible (&quot;Hey guys don&#x27;t pick ADC. Oh, you did? I&#x27;m dodging&quot;). The S was because we didn&#x27;t realistically think you could do it without being coordinated, and didn&#x27;t want to set the expectation you should. The middle one you have to do 3 times. Good luck winning that three times. Once the first mission is done you get three missions.. All of them you have to be in a 5 man pre-made team to compleate. So you are locked out of any other mission untill this is done... This was stupid as all hell Riot. Its hard enough to get a 3 man group for Ranked games... Fix this please. No pre_mades in missions. Here is why 1. Its like herding cats to get 5 people from different time zones to do anything at the same time. I know this as a guild leader from Rift and World of Warcraft. 2. Once someone has done this they will not want to do it again just to help someone else who needs to compleate it. So for everone that finishes the pool for compleating drops. 3. You will just piss people off. People like compleation. Even more so with Gamers. When you add content and make it to hard or have to many road blocks you end to getting people to just leave out of frustration.
The one that is "Win a game as each an ADC, Mage, and Utility" is solo
: Lee Sin is still around 18% play rate
> [{quoted}](name=FantasySniper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BewWgsW2,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-05T22:14:29.997+0000) > > Lee Sin isn&amp;#039;t weak Uh, if Lee Sin's 47% winrate isnt weak, what is? >For all you people that don't know, that high-ass playrate is the cause of his lower winrate. Are you sure? Explain Jarvan, Sejuani, and Gragas then.
: typo, I'm getting back about 154k. enough to get a lame skin or get like 5 champions with the random champion option. now if human ryze were available... anyway not only that, but there ARE a lot of players with well over 150k ip sitting in their bank. they own every champion, so for them getting ip back is worthless. that's what the blue essence sale is for, so that they feel good about the changes too. calling it a moneygrab is ignorantly stupid.
You might want to check your math. At their current rates for 100 BE per mark/steal/glyph and 300 BE per quint: * 65 sets of marks/seals/glyphs, 9 runes per set, 100 each = 58,500 BE * 33 sets of quints, 3 quints per set, 300 each = 29,700 BE So if you had every single rune in the game before this season, youre looking to get back 88,200 BE.
Búbblegum (EUNE)
: No, everyone else bitching about runes is selfish.They gave you free runes, they also gave you a refund, you still ask for more. Instead of dealing with what they gave you you are constantly asking for more, sure say that you think the number of the refund seems too small for you, that's fine. But all of you literally spammed the whole boards with it while also attacking Riot. At this point I would literally remove every single rune refund post. 1 or even 2 would've been enough.
Nah - youre just selfish because you only think about yourself. Free runes? I didnt realize that 250k in IP is free. Is that free to you? Creating an account is free. Runes are not. Just because there is no monetary value associated with it doesnt make it free. Youre just diminishing accomplishments that cant be bought, which is shortsighted and stupid. When you spend years working for a goal - whether it be fitness, education, or a video game, its not free. And the same can be said the other way around - "At this point, I would literally remove every single post saying the rune refund is fair and/or people are complaining. 1 or even 2 would've been enough." I mean, thats probably the LEAST effective way to say youre position is right. "Everyone that disagrees with me gets their opinion deleted". And nobody's "attacking" Riot. its a public dissatisfaction of their planned changes. Its public discourse. But I guess thats the world we live in - all these kids out there think any sort of criticism, whether its deserved or not, is a blind attack.
: if I can afford it with what I'll get for the rune refunds then you probably can too... I don't have an insane amount of runes at all
I can tell you 100% that I can not at their current rates. And you previously stated that youre looking to get 54k back. Do you have 100,000 IP just in your account? And thats only for URFwick. If you want stuff like the Renekton skin or the ward skins on top of that, thats even more.
: its a release valve for all the extra ip people will get. a lot of people are likely to be like "well this refund is worthless to me because I don't need ip for anything". that's what urfwick and the chromas etc are for.
I literally told you how URFwick is a moneygrab. Its not a reward for veteran players if veteran players (like myself) who played around 10,000 games (like myself) and purchased a large number of runes (like myself) cannot afford it. > a lot of people are likely to be like "well this refund is worthless to me because I don't need ip for anything Not all old players have this mentality. People wouldnt be protesting the decision this much if if they did.
Búbblegum (EUNE)
: Lmao, I could've had all of them but I had all the runes I wanted. The point is, old players don't have anything to do with the ip anyway.
But you dont have all of them, so its a moot point. Youre being selfish. Just because you have nothing to gain you dont care about the people who do.
: I feel like the only people that will be able to afford 150,000 essence Urfwick...
You need 150,000 BE. https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/6xi6nt/how_to_get_84_more_blue_essence_preseason/ if this guy's math is right, that means you need to disenchant 82 champion shards. 82 champion shards will cost you just under 16,000 RP. Thats about $110.
: they left them in knowing they were mostly useless on the off chance that someone really did want them. but last year riot also halved the price of every really common rune that people actually need. this, and urfwick, aren't moneygrabs. its customer service. after all theres no way for you to increase how much blue essence you'll have in a month other than just playing the game. that's really there for players who already bought every champion long ago. or if you really want it, then sure you could get it instead of getting like 5 champions. none of these things cost you money.
> [{quoted}](name=Monado II,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qr2LzQcy,comment-id=002400010000000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-03T12:42:36.319+0000) > >but last year riot also halved the price of every really common rune that people actually need. this, and urfwick, aren&#x27;t moneygrabs. Let me just give you some math: Riot stated that they would get 6.5x the blue essence you currently have in the update. You need to have 23,076 blue essence right now for it to convert to 150,000 after the changes. So how much would that cost? In the store, you can purchase a Hextech champion shard for 195 RP. On average, disenchanting that shard for Blue Essence will net you 283 current blue essence. Meaning you need to buy 82 champion shards to hit 23,076 blue essence that will turn into 150,000 blue essence after the changes. How much would that cost you? 82 champion shards will cost you just under 16,000 RP. Thats about $110. Riot is selling URFwick, a rare skin from 7 years ago, for $110. How is that not a moneygrab?
Búbblegum (EUNE)
: I have 46 marks,78 seals,91 glyphs and 25 quints. And yes it was before they made runes 10 ip. I don't give a damn because I don't have anything to do with ip anymore and every other single bitching old player doesn't either. It's not because I don't want nice things for people it's because people that are complaining about it are not asking for it nicely, they are literally bashing riot for not "respecting old players" and keep on insulting them. As a company I wouldn't give 2 fucks about players like these.
> [{quoted}](name=Búbblegum,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIN5LdIs,comment-id=000600010000,timestamp=2017-09-03T09:48:25.587+0000) > > I have 46 marks,78 seals,91 glyphs and 25 quints. And yes it was before they made runes 10 ip. You have, comparatively, a smaller number of runes.
: May I return the question and ask how many you have? I had more than I needed.
46/65 possible sets of tier 3 runes (nonquints), 25/33 possible sets of quints. So 414 marks/seals/glyphs + 75 quints. I too had a lot more than I needed. I spent 200,000+ IP on useless runes (like Scaling Mana Yellows that give you a whopping 21 mana at level 18) that I knew I wouldnt ever use. I wouldnt have bought them if I knew they would be getting rid of the rune system. I have the oldschool RPG mentality of the 100% unlock, even if its not the point of the game. I like unlocking stuff. I complete as many of the missions as I can, I have honor 5, all champions, and I'm working on getting as many champions above mastery level 4 (I have 39 above level 4, and 50 at level 3). I have a lot more to lose than you, so you can probably see why someone like me would care more.
: > [{quoted}](name=i am Rubick Sama,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LIN5LdIs,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-09-02T13:57:02.377+0000) > > i see you&#x27;re new here, so i will explain to you > > they removed dodge runes and gave us the IP back because we SPENT IP on them > the new rune system might be free, but since it&#x27;s free it doesn&#x27;t mean they don&#x27;t have to refund the ip, else it means we payed the new system with our old IP spent on old runes > > this is not what free means, if the new system is free they have to give us what we paid on the old system. > > it&#x27;s like you pay a computer, the company who sold it tells you &quot;hey we&#x27;re going to make computers free for everyone, and if someone paid a computer before we won&#x27;t give the money back because it&#x27;s free now&quot; new people will get free computers, while old people will be screwed because they already paid Actually, no they don't. And that scenario is a valid scenario. You paid for it at the time, the merchant decided it should be free after the fact. It's up to them in that instance if they refund you or not. The merchant abided by the agreement at that time, and they have no obligation once the transaction is completed. Yeah it may suck, but that's how it works for that.
You arent wrong. But technically, Riot can delete your account for no reason or take away all the skins you bought. And then when someone complains, "well, the merchant abided by the agreement at the time...." I personally dont think this is ethical behavior (even if its legal). Therefore, I will state my opinion against it. It sucks - but Riot has the power to NOT make it suck.
Búbblegum (EUNE)
: They are reworking runes* not removing them. When they removed dodge runes it made sense, they weren't replacing them with something else that is FREE, so obviously they gave you a full refund. Now people like you need to stop making useless threads about this and deal with it.
How many runes do you have? Cause I've noticed that the people who dont give a damn are usually the ones with a small number of runes. And giving a full refund (or half, not this 15-30% thing they have on now) doesnt hurt you in any way. Are you really that sour that you cant want nice things for others? And the thread isnt useless. This thread tells Riot that players arent happy with their decision.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Honestly, I feel I got my ip worth out of the runes, I've used most of them A LOT, they may not get ruined or anything, but I honestly think I got my value out of them. They served me well in the 4 and a half years I used them.
I guess thats the difference. I dont feel like I got my IP worth of runes, because a lot of the runes available are crap. I used about 30k IP of runes a lot - your standard AD, AS, AP, Magic Pen, Armor Pen, Armor, MR, and CDR. But leaving runes like "energy per level seals" or "ability power per level marks" in the store along with this stunt just seems just like a money grab now. ________________ "Hey, buy these useless runes!" Then when we buy them, "Hey, were taking away runes. But dont worry - we will refund 15-30% of the IP you spent on our moneygrab runes, but you can get URFwick for some ridiculous price as another moneygrab!"
: 139 Marks, Seals, Glyphs, 22 Quints. Everything from fairly standard stuff to Crit Damage and Revival. Not as much as MrHaZeYo, but a sizable chunk none the less.
I assume you mean individual runes? Cause there arent 139 sets in the game. There are 65 sets in the game for a total of 585 tier-3 runes (non quints) you can buy. There are 33 sets of quints in the game for a total of 99 tier-3 quints you can buy. You own less than 25% of the runes available. You, in comparison to some people, have a lot less to lose.
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: Using the numbers riot gave, I'll get 54k Ip back, so I spent more then 200k on runes and I still agree with the op.
Do you really think its fair to get back 50,000 BE when their "compensation" requires you to have 150,000+? Do you agree cause you believe some bullshit analogy about a T-shirt, which doesnt fit the situation because 1) a T-shirt deteriorates as its used unlike runes and 2) you get to choose to keep the shirt, not forcibly lose it. Explain to me - why dont you care, and why do you think its selfish to want fair compensation.
Modi (NA)
: You speak as if riot knew, years ago, that they were going to change the system.
Riot doesnt need to change the system so drastically. Or, if they actually felt bad about it, they can give a 1:1 refund, right? Refunding a miniscule amount and 'allowing' you to purchase URFwick, even though you would need every single rune unlocked + a bunch extra to afford 150,000 BE is quite frankly ridiculous. What next - they going to say that they are revamping the champion system, and wont refund you any of the IP or RP spent on champions? What about skins - they going to say they are revamping the skin system, and you lose all your skins? This makes me lose all faith in Riot as a company. When I earn something with in-game currency, I expect to keep it. Hearthstone doesnt take away your cards when they introduce new packs. WoW didnt take away your items. CS:GO doesnt take away your pins or skins. Unless Riot decides to give fair compensation, they are the ones in the wrong - not the players who supported the growth of their game by grinding for IP to unlock runes. Well, "fool me once," right? If these are the real numbers, I'm not waiting for them to try and fool me twice. Riot, in the first time since 2015, lost their title as the-most-watched game on Twitch last month to PUBG. If this is how they will treat their veteran players, maybe its time for me to jump ship too.
Limrick (NA)
: If you say so dude.
: > You are only going to farm upvotes because of the new players that don't have access to all content. Let me get this straight. People who *don't* have everything, and still coughed up IP for Runes, are going to be the ones saying "It's OK that we don't get a sizable refund", while those that *do* have everything and were sitting on heaps of IP are going to want more and down vote this? How does that even make any sense? People who are still lacking content should be the ones wanting a higher refund, so they could get what they still are missing. I'm among those who bought tons of runes, don't have nearly all the champions, but I agree with the OP. I got my use out of my Crit Damage runes, and whatever other wonky setup I tried, I'm happy with the time I got with them, but it's time to move on. Rune Pages bought with RP were the only thing leaving a bad taste in my mouth, but the skins for those seems like an OK trade to me.
How many runes did you purchase? Something tells me that you didnt buy a lot of them. I can be wrong, but I would like to know.
: Rune Refunds: Unpopular Opinion
> [{quoted}](name=The Lexer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Qr2LzQcy,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-02T14:08:59.281+0000) > > I, for one, feel it was useful to have runes for my 4 years of playing League, and it would not have been worth it to play without runes for 4 years just so I could have a little more IP when this system changes. People are acting selfishly by wanting full refunds. The reason you dont care is cause you dont have anything to lose. Whether they give you a full refund or nothing, you probably lost at most 50k IP. I only need 3 runepages to play League. But I went on a quest to use all my IP to unlock as many runepages and as many runes that I could, because 1) we were never told that they would be taken away, and 2) we were never told there was going to be any other use for IP once you unlocked all champions. Therefore I spent a lot of IP on runes like "Scaling Energy Regen seals" which are both expensive and useless, but I bought them just because there was nothing else to spend IP on. I only needed about 30,000 IP worth of runes to play league. I spent over 250,000. I would have much rather kept the 220,000 IP for when the system changes. Someone like you probably doesnt care cause you didnt spend a lot on runes - even if they give you a full refund, you wouldnt be able to get URFwick. Most people who did spend a lot on runes do care.
Krèépy (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChaoticPinecone,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7dFWns,comment-id=00030000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-02T18:53:31.365+0000) > > > URFwick is not THAT rare. You got King Rammus if you played in the closed beta. Meaning that not only did you have to know about League before its release, you needed to actually get invited into the small amount of people allowed to test the game between April-August 2008. URFwick was sold in the store on April 1, 2010, for 5RP. Unless youre trying to tell me that more people played in the closed beta than bought the skin 2 years later for a dollar and after League was getting popular, I dont know what to tell you. That's a fact, the only thing they are doing by bringing urfwick out of the vault is reducing its true value tremendously while putting a huge price tag on it.
Its a fact that URFwick is as rare as King Rammus? Do you have any data to back this claim up?
Limrick (NA)
: It's free, you get it for playing a fucking video game. It's a side reward for having fun at a game. If you think that you are having to work and grind for IP, then you aren't having fun with the game, and shouldn't even be here at all. If you take offense to what I say, that's you being sensitive, not me being offensive. He said the exact same thing as I did, but more bluntly. I never imply people who disagree with me are unreasonable, far from it if you would actually read my replies. I think the OP whining with zero substance to his argument is silly, but his opinion is not invalid. I haven't said anything offensive yet I'm constantly harassed for giving an opinion contrary to the norm here. That's an echo chamber, plain and simple. You only take offense because it's against what you believe. There's dozens of users being far more insulting and far more of an ass than I could ever hope to be. I'm not trying to outsmart anyone, I'm not giving any offense, and anyone who takes offense, that's their fault, not mine.
Sigh. You still dont get it. Thats okay. Not everybody does. I told you straight up - youre being an asshole. Your response? > [{quoted}](name=Limrick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7dFWns,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-02T19:21:53.917+0000) > > I&#x27;m not giving any offense, and anyone who takes offense, that&#x27;s their fault, not mine. Yeah, thats asshole talk.
: ***
https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/sVWxEjuQ-if-these-proposed-ip-refund-suggestions-were-to-become-a-reality-it-needs-price-adjustments-imo?comment=000300010000 Pretty sure the pricepoint for URFwick at 150,000 was set way before this thread and the updated (ie lower) refund prices. We knew that it would be 150,000 a month ago. The refund rates were changed days ago. If they set it at 150,000 points before they decided how much players get back for runes, why did they originally try and see if 40% was enough? 0% chance? How about 100% chance? ________________________ URFwick is not THAT rare. You got King Rammus if you played in the closed beta. Meaning that not only did you have to know about League before its release, you needed to actually get invited into the small amount of people allowed to test the game between April-August 2008. URFwick was sold in the store on April 1, 2010, for 5RP. Unless youre trying to tell me that more people played in the closed beta than bought the skin 2 years later for a dollar and after League was getting popular, I dont know what to tell you.
: ***
I bought 75 out of the possible 98 sets of T3 runes. I dont have 16 regular sets and 9 sets of quints. Before this 99% sale they have going on, I calculated that I spent more than 266,916 IP on runes (because there have been a rune price reduction in the past too). The refund numbers they have out now means I get: 24 quints x 300 BE = 7,200 51 sets x 100 BE = 5,100 For a total of 12,300 BE. If URFwick still costs 150,000 BE? Yeah - no way I can realistically get it with the 10k IP I have in the bank. So no - youre flat out wrong. Not everyone upset with these changes just want more champions on their smurfs. _____________________ > A full refund would mean all of the items on the blue essense store would cost 4-5 times as much so you wouldn't get it anyway. Says who? The 150,000 price was set before the reduction in refund rate. Prior to this, It was something like a 40% refund - I calculated that I would get something like 100,000 BE back. Enough to actually think about getting URFwick. > All a low rune refund means is that players with a bunch if ip floating around (i.e. The veteran players who have been around the longest) have more purchasing power at the blue essence store. I am a veteran player. I have been playing for 5 years. I have around 3,000 SR games, about 5,000 ARAM games, probably around 1000 ranked games, plus another several hundred "special" game mode games or customs (I do have the Dominion summoner Icon, if that tells you anything) under my belt. Just by my normals and ARAM games played, thats 8000 games over the past 5 years. Thats over 4 games a day, every day, over the past 5 years. If I cant get URFwick, I have a problem with it.
: ...what does this do to make ANYONE want this over coin unless you're *specifically Zyra or Brand?*
Or a heavy shielding support, like Janna/Karma/Lulu/Sona. By taking the 5% CDR from masteries, youre looking at capping 45% CDR with 3900 gold (Ionions, Eye of Watchers, Forbidden Idol). Currently, maxing out at 45% CDR requires 5900-6200 gold (Ionions, Eye of Watchers, Ardent or Redemption, Forbidden Idol). But in most situations, it takes a lot longer - when I play a shielding support, I go Eye of Watchers+Ionians+Adrent Censor (5400 gold), sit at 35% CDR until I buy a locket (7600 gold) then buy the Forbidden Idol for the 45% CDR (8400 gold). The difference between hitting 45% CDR with 8400 gold and 3900 gold is pretty big.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=magewick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7dFWns,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2017-09-01T20:41:11.471+0000) > > Let&#x27;s be realistic for a second, the only people getting upset about the changes are those who want to have more champions on their smurfs. Nope. Can 100% say youre wrong. I'm someone upset with the change and I dont have a smurf. Why? Because prior to the change, I would have been able to unlock URFwick with a little bit of grinding - its a skin that I always loved, but I started playing about 5 months after it was sold in the store. With these changes, I no longer can get URFwick without some serious (maybe impossible) grinding for the next 2 months.
Limrick (NA)
: Interesting that you didn't get flooded by downvotes for saying exactly what I said. Guess the toxic people don't scroll this far.
I dont know who the hell youre trying to convice, cause the only person youre fooling is yourself. You can say, "I'm not toxic - I didnt insult anybody!" But people arent that stupid. We know when we are being insulted, even if there was no profanity or names called. You, my friend, are acting like an ass. > [{quoted}](name=Limrick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xs7dFWns,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-01T20:19:01.158+0000) > > What. It&#x27;s free stuff, it only costs IP, which you get just for playing the game. Skelenth understands and used language to convey that it was a product that it was bought and sold with in-game currency that was earned with time playing the game. Thats very different from calling it "free" and "just for playing the game". No - you dont get enough IP for a majority of the runes "just for playing the game". You get it by investing a lot of time. Something you get from "just playing the game" is Masteries - it only takes a couple months to hit level 30. You need a lot more time to accumulate a large amount of runes. By doing this, youre trying to devalue the time and effort spent in gaining those runes. That is insulting to the people who did grind. > Riot is being far more generous than most game companies, yet you still complain? Implying that the people who disagree with this decision (and with you) are selfish and unreasonable >Guess the toxic people don't scroll this far. And even this is throwing shade. ____________________________________ When someone comes forward with a solid opinion without being condescending, its generally received a lot better than someone who is acting like, well, you. Thats why he didnt get flooded with downvotes - Skelenth stated his opinion (and its an opinion thats logical and make sense) without attacking anybody. You know that outright insulting people is too obvious and youll never be taken seriously, but you think youre outsmarting everyone by insulting them discreetly. You arent. People recognize when someone is being an ass. And let me repeat this - youre being an ass.
: I mean you definitely could but why? The only people that will take this kind of name seriously are a small minority. People that don't find it funny can just ignore it. I say keep the name as it fits the toxicity of shaco mains.
Why? Because offensive names are against Riots TOS. And the people who take that kind of name seriously are usually the ones getting hurt by it. I mean, you can have a toxic name and its perfectly fine. Once it becomes racist, its a bit more of a problem.
: I'd argue how viable the joke is how sensitive the crowd is. I agree, that it sure sounds that way, but I've spent enough time around people who make those types of jokes. Hell, almost every DnD session, me and my friends at some point start talking in high pitch german accents, and joke about gassing jews. Is it racist? No, because racism implies we're actually oppressing someone. Is it a bad joke? Probably. Is it damn funny? Yes. I think it's probably insensitive for the times, yeah, but look at 4chan for petesake. Have you heard the epicness of Catfishman? I'd advise you to watch the video narrating it, it's worth the watch, but it shows just how F**ked up people can be in their humor. I'm not saying I agree with this guy's name choice, but I think that there is enough reasonable doubt here for me to question "Is this person actually a bad person because of his *username*". I still don't know from the OP, whether or not this man was actually friendly in game.
I'm not saying the person is a terrible person. I'm saying that a username like "I Hate the Jews" is a lot worse than "MotorboatMyGoat", and probably should be reported to Riot and changed for an offensive name.
: So like real quick, I get that it's bad, probably should be changed or whatever, but two things. They could've changed their name *or* they're actually a good person, and just like to meme. Myself included, there are a lot of insensitive people out there who make the worse jokes, but are still decent people. I mean, you played with him I'm assuming, so you could tell us how he was, but when did we start associating people with Usernames? I met a man whose name was "MotorboatMyGoat". Are we to assume this man would ask us to rub our heads in a goat's unmentionables?
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qiUG4gic,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-09-01T05:37:49.792+0000) > > I met a man whose name was &quot;MotorboatMyGoat&quot;. Are we to assume this man would ask us to rub our heads in a goat&#x27;s unmentionables? 1. The rhymescheme indicates that it was a dark joke instead of serious 2. Goats are not known to have been the subject of sexual abuse in the past 3. Its difficult to actually accomplish because goats dont have breasts in the same way humans do Compare that to: 1. "I hate the Jews" is not clever, catchy, or funny. 2. Hate for Jews has led to one of the most horrendous genocides in the history of the world 3. There are still groups today perpetuating Nazi ideology and waving Nazi symbols _____________ Its like what [George Carlin](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fwMukKqx-Os) said - you can joke about anything, but it depends on where you put the exaggeration. Rape isnt usually funny, but its funny if youre talking about Porky Pig raping Elmer Fudd. "I hate the Jews" is just plain racist.
LankPants (OCE)
: >I think Zyra's case is special and comes down to asking the question "what is your kit actually good at?" Zyra to me has ALWAYS been a support because her kit isn't amazing at waveclearing It was before the Q changes. E/Q used to kill waves easy, the caster creeps died to base+ a tiny bit of AP and the melees would go down to plant focus. The changes to Q which crippled its damage and destroyed its hitbox are the reason Zyra doesn't have wave clear, it's not a problem inherent to Zyra as a character. >and roaming for aggressive ganks Citation needed on that one buddy. Zyra's ability to roam has never actually been bad, she has an amazing followup to ganks since if a target's already CCed by a Thresh or Leona she can easily follow up and extend that CC duration while her plants also benefit. >and is much better at things like zoning opponents off the minion wave But this along with the last two points is only numbers. If Q had better base damage and plants did less base damage with better scaling you've created a Zyra who still plays the exact same but no longer wants to early zone and rather wants to use her now improved waveclear to farm up and utilise her improved ratios. >heavily punishing enemy engages The same can be said of Syndra, Orianna and Anivia. This is a standard utility mage strength, this isn't at all a relevant point. >and following up on ally CC You mean the CC most ADCs don't even have anyway? Almost all ADC CC is unreliable and only really works as a followup itself. >We'd need to realign her strengths. We recently did this with Malzahar and his voidlings, he's a mid again. It's possible to do that with Zyra, but right now she's a support and we balance her as one. We'd have to make the decision to change that. http://www.strawpoll.me/7114736/r Seems like an obvious choice to me. >I personally made this messaging mistake when I made Vi. If you watch Vi's spotlight you'll notice we told people she was a toplaner, but if you read her kit you'll quickly realize that what we actually released was a jungler. She could top for a while, but as we repeatedly nerfed her due to her power in jungle (the role her kit was actually suited for) she fell out of that position. Luckily, with Vi, there weren't a lot of people who got hurt by this shift. Hunting ADC's in top -----> hunting ADC's in jungle is not the worst transition. Carrying in mid ----> supporting a carry in bot feels a lot more painful. Big difference here, Zyra mid was completely playable for several years and was actually better than Zyra support for several patches. It was only in S3 when support gold income got increased that Zyra became a remotely relevant support. Pretty much immediately after she did she revived a nerf to support with no compensation mid, marking the time when you started to balance her as a support and not a mid. >IMO, if we want Zyra to mid, we'll need to change her kit a bit, but that might prove difficult given the reality of what plants are (temporary turrets that are way better when not used on the minion wave). Trust me, you don't. Simple numbers changes can absolutely shift Zyra mid. +10 base on Q, +5/rank, +0.1 AP, revert Q hitbox to pre rework preferably not 100% needed though -2.5 damage/level on plants, +0.1 AP on plants. I absolutely guarantee you that these simple numbers changes would shift Zyra into being a midlaner.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nx0VVF2o,comment-id=000b000100000003,timestamp=2017-08-31T21:32:55.668+0000) > It was before the Q changes. E/Q used to kill waves easy, the caster creeps died to base+ a tiny bit of AP and the melees would go down to plant focus. The changes to Q which crippled its damage and destroyed its hitbox are the reason Zyra doesn&#x27;t have wave clear, it&#x27;s not a problem inherent to Zyra as a character. Zyra hasnt had good waveclear for a while. Even before her Q changes she couldnt waveclear particularly well after her hotfix nerfs on release. In fact, her current Q does more base damage than her old Q (both base and scaling) and the AoE is easier to hit backline creeps if they are targeting something. > Citation needed on that one buddy. Zyra&#x27;s ability to roam has never actually been bad, she has an amazing followup to ganks since if a target&#x27;s already CCed by a Thresh or Leona she can easily follow up and extend that CC duration while her plants also benefit. Zyra's ability to roam is a lot worse than a lot of champions, mainly because she wasnt and isnt a 100-0 champion and she has no mobility. And unlike other non-roaming champions (not that they cant roam - they just arent amazing at it), she cant waveclear particularly well from long range - looking at you, Anivia and Xerath. I mean, every champion is good at followup ganks if the enemy is already CCed by Leona or Thresh. I cant think of one champion that would "suck" in that situation. But her slow-as-hell movespeed, lack of mobility, lack of upfront burst and slow skillshot cc doesnt make her a great roamer compared to, say, Ahri, Akali, Annie, Sol, etc. Again - its a comparison thing. Not that Zyra cant roam, she just isnt as good at it as the 'roaming' midlaners > But this along with the last two points is only numbers. If Q had better base damage and plants did less base damage with better scaling you&#x27;ve created a Zyra who still plays the exact same but no longer wants to early zone and rather wants to use her now improved waveclear to farm up and utilise her improved ratios. Or you just broke her as a support. Better base damage means she doesnt need to rely on her plant AI for damage. > Big difference here, Zyra mid was completely playable for several years and was actually better than Zyra support for several patches. It was only in S3 when support gold income got increased that Zyra became a remotely relevant support. Pretty much immediately after she did she revived a nerf to support with no compensation mid, marking the time when you started to balance her as a support and not a mid. Look up the history - Zyra mid was better than Zyra support for about a patch. She got her broken release (July 2012), then got hotfixed 3 weeks later. (EDIT - from August 2012 to October 2012, she actually wasnt played much. Too weak from mid, and supports didnt get enough gold. Which is why you didnt see her much, if at all, in the S2 World Champions). Then the Season 3 support gold changes happened, and from then on she was taken support. Then Season 3 world championships happened, Zyra support was pick/ban against SKT who ended up winning the whole thing on October 4, 2013 (which got her the fancy SKT1 Zyra skin), then got her base damages reduced in October 19, 2013 - which solidified her into the support role. During the bulk of Season 3, Zyra wasnt a popular mid. The only mid-Zyra player that got really famous was Rhaqen, and because he started a "Burning Bush" Zyra build - you build Spirit of the Elder Lizard (a jungle item) and Liandries, and instead of going for the 100-0 burst you went for the AoE teamfight damage. And this was a time when 100-0 damage was the most sought after damage for Midlaners, especially since DFG existed. > Trust me, you don&#x27;t. Simple numbers changes can absolutely shift Zyra mid. > > +10 base on Q, +5/rank, +0.1 AP, revert Q hitbox to pre rework preferably not 100% needed though > -2.5 damage/level on plants, +0.1 AP on plants. > > I absolutely guarantee you that these simple numbers changes would shift Zyra into being a midlaner. Dude, that would make her SO strong as support. More base damages at the expense of AI Plant damage that youre lucky to get 2 hits with? As a Zyra Support main, I wouldnt even want this - this would make her so strong she would be FOTM again and I would never get to play her. Want to know the thing that would get Zyra back mid? Go back to prehotfix, which reduced her ability to one-shot casters with her E and took away alot of her safety (Ult range nerfed, Q range nerfed, E damage and speed nerfed, Movespeed heavily nerfed, passive 20% CDR from her W) But then we would be dealing with a long range, AoE, Burst/DPS champion with absurd amounts of CC. She would be taken mid, not because her support is bad, but because her damage with gold would be insane. Not sure if you want that.
Slythion (NA)
: Not wanting to play Devil's Advocate here but I just want to point out that just because Tristana is a hypercarry doesn't make her autoattacks somehow stronger. She's a hyper-carry due to her kit (as every hyper-carry is), in which none of her abilities where upgraded. Her only "advantage" over other adcs in this situation would be her auto-attack range which has no effect on her damage, so literally any adc would do that damage in the same situation. If he was playing Vayne with upgrades on his W then that argument could be made. Also, it *is* kind of rediculous to have an ADC do as much damage as a Mage's full rotation in 5 seconds imo. 2.0+ att speed means they can put out as much damage as a mage in just over 2 seconds, which is often times the same (if not less) time it takes for a mage when incorporating cast-times and animations (think about how long it takes for Veigar's Comet to fall for instance). The argument could be made that not only do ADC's have better DPS and similar burst qualities of a mages, but they also have access to better penetration/flexible build paths *and* aren't limited by situations to output damage. By that I mean that while Veigar often times has to wait for his stun to land, Ahri's charm, or some other cc to hit for their burst to be able to be output, adc's can just "pelt away at whoever is near" without any restrictions outside of "don't die".
> [{quoted}](name=Slythion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IbdLtNLA,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-08-30T20:27:55.947+0000) > > Not wanting to play Devil&#x27;s Advocate here but I just want to point out that just because Tristana is a hypercarry doesn&#x27;t make her autoattacks somehow stronger. She&#x27;s a hyper-carry due to her kit (as every hyper-carry is), in which none of her abilities where upgraded. Her only &quot;advantage&quot; over other adcs in this situation would be her auto-attack range which has no effect on her damage, so literally any adc would do that damage in the same situation. > > If he was playing Vayne with upgrades on his W then that argument could be made. Not quite. We no longer live in a world where ADC builds are cookie-cutter. If he played someone like Ezreal, Corki, Jhin, Quinn (is she still an ADC?), MF, or Lucian you wont see such high numbers for damage - they have less crit chance and in some cases no IE. Also, some ADCs dont build double-zeal items - meaning they dont crit as often and their attack speed is much lower. They wont hit 2.0AS with 80% crit chance like this Trist. > Also, it *is* kind of rediculous to have an ADC do as much damage as a Mage&#x27;s full rotation in 5 seconds imo. 2.0+ att speed means they can put out as much damage as a mage in just over 2 seconds, which is often times the same (if not less) time it takes for a mage when incorporating cast-times and animations (think about how long it takes for Veigar&#x27;s Comet to fall for instance). Want to know whats ridiculous? Trying to say a 6-item Veigar only does 1963 in total burst. The post is obviously pushing an agenda. A 1000 AP Veigar (which you should be close to in late game, 6 item situations) can do that much with his ult alone to a 1/2 health target. Or saying that Annie only does 2300 in her burst, when she can hit multiple enemies with 2/3 of that damage - if you land a 5-person Tibbers, you increased that to almost 7500 damage! > The argument could be made that not only do ADC&#x27;s have better DPS and similar burst qualities of a mages, but they also have access to better penetration/flexible build paths *and* aren&#x27;t limited by situations to output damage. By that I mean that while Veigar often times has to wait for his stun to land, Ahri&#x27;s charm, or some other cc to hit for their burst to be able to be output, adc&#x27;s can just &quot;pelt away at whoever is near&quot; without any restrictions outside of &quot;don&#x27;t die&quot;. The argument can be made, but it isnt a good one. They dont have similar burst qualities of mages in terms of up-front DPS or AoE in most cases. Also, most of the times ADCs have less flexible builds - a mage can decide to rush a Zhonyas against a Zed but an ADC will be left helpless until they cant straight up fight toe-to-toe. It isnt really optimal for an ADC to rush a GA against a fed Assassin if they dont have their core items. Plus, youre not mentioning range or CC, which can be just as valuable (if not more valuable) than raw damage. ___________ I'm not saying ADCs are weak or anything like that, but the post is obviously pushing an agenda. "How is that fair"? Because different champions and different roles do different things in different parts of the game. Youre comparing mages to ADCs in a situation that heavily favors ADCs - lategame with 6 items comparing single-target DPS. Mages heavily win out at level 6, level 11, 1-2 item powerspikes, CC, and AoE. Also, ADCs are required to hit a target that entire time - a mage can blow their rotation and back off, giving less of a window where they are vulnerable. THATS why its fair.
: Those things you mentioned are difficult to code for. Counting shield damage towards an assist is NOT. And THAT is the difference. "There's no way to code properly to take into account zoning with abilities that don't connect" is a valid excuse by Riot for not getting assists from that, and for the most part I think everyone here's accepted that that's just a limitation of the game. Shielded damage not counting for an assist, though, is just lazy coding and a massive, easily fixed oversight with the Assist system.
And its difficult to code for when a shield was damaged-but-had-an-effect vs damaged-and-had-no-effect.
: idgaf what people enjoy. Ranked isn't for good times. If you want to have fun, find a ferris wheel. There are normals for a reason, and frankly, if they banned new champs from Ranked, and allowed them in Normals, a clear message would be sent that says "This is where you should be experimenting" Ranked is not for fun. And the more Riot pretends that nothing is wrong by not removing new champs for 2 weeks, the more people show up without sobriety, preparedness, or interest in their fellow players. Also, that comparison you've used isn't the same thing here AT. ALL. Did you want to just tell everyone you take Martial Arts lessons?
Same logic can be used to require Riot to auto-ban Caitlyn and Karma since their winrates are also extremely low. "Ranked is not meant for fun, by picking those champs youre putting yourself at a disadvantage, etc" And get rid of anything not meta too. Since "Ranked is not meant for fun".
: You can be damn sure that if that 1500 shield the support dropped on their ADC was reduced to a 500 shield in a matter of a second, prompting the ADC to retreat before the enemy team followed up on that, that I'd consider that pretty damn significant.
Heres the thing - some things in this game dont seem fair, but they are. Not damaging through a shield doesnt give assists - you might not like it, but its fair because it didnt directly help you get the kill if you didnt break that shield. Its like how throwing zoning CC or blocking off a retreat doesnt give assists. Would it be nice to get an assist by throwing down a Veigar cage to force the enemy into a bad position? Sure. But then pretty much everything will be giving assists as long as youre nearby, since its too difficult to actually code every single possibility to see whether or not the Veigar did actually assist or was throwing abilities nearby randomly.
: If you deal damage to aan adc with lifesteal that just gets back to full right after, did you really do anything to deserve an assist? If you did 200 damage to someone who was overkilled by 500damage from a veigar ult, did you really deserve an assist? The target would have died with or without your contribution... If we start nitpicking in such a way, things get out of hand. You did try to contribute as good as you could, you clearly participated in the fight, so you deserve the proper reward for those efforts. And i really hope for a mini thornmail or sunfire rune in S8, so tanks also get assists for tanking...
> [{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=M43f6usa,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-08-28T00:45:46.836+0000) > > If you deal damage to aan adc with lifesteal that just gets back to full right after, did you really do anything to deserve an assist? Yes - you did damage to them and youre forcing them to heal back up (or have someone heal them back up). > If you did 200 damage to someone who was overkilled by 500damage from a veigar ult, did you really deserve an assist? The target would have died with or without your contribution... Yes, because you actually did do damage. Like in the above situation - you do 200 damage to someone, they walk up to autoattack to heal back up, and Veigar overkills them by 500 when they do. YOURE the one nitpicking. Youre trying to create very very specific situations to minimize impact, and it all depends on how the game played out. Its impossible to tell without knowing the context. But I can tell you that in every situation - whatever the context - when you do damage to a shield but not enough to break the shield, it wouldnt matter if you did the damage or not if the shield breaks due to duration instead of damage. > You did try to contribute as good as you could, you clearly participated in the fight, so you deserve the proper reward for those efforts. Unfortunately, trying and effort doesnt get you assists. You 'participating' in the fight by running in and getting kited and killed before touching anyone doesnt count toward assists. ______________ Now, that all said, there are certain situations that probably do deserve assists even if you dont break the shield - but that kind of specific scenario probably requires a lot of coding. In a perfect word, it might happen, but we cant expect everything in the game to work perfectly and be fair. But in general, throwing abilities into a shield shouldnt be enough to get assists.
: Because for whatever reason, doing damage to a shield rather than the HP does not count as helping to kill an opponent. No matter if it's yasuo or another champ, if you don't do direct damage to the hp, you don't get any assist or kill. Imo it's very stupid that it works that way, especailly since you need to get through ~1500 shield if you want to burst an adc these days, and helping to burn through that shield for sure contributes to bursting him down....but eh, riot logic and stuff. damage vs shields also isn't included in damage stats. It might be part of the 'selfmitigated damage' in damage taken now, but it certainly doesn't show in the damage dealt stats. And befor someone says 'damage dealt to shields sometimes has no impact at all', the same is true to poke damage vs high sustain. If you lane vs Vladimir, you will deal alot of damage to him, without really achiveing much. Funfact: If you can keep shields up, you can regen with warmongs in fight, as only direct damage to your hp disables the regen effect.
It can but doenst have to. Only a few shields last forever. Most shields have a duration element to. If you dont break the shield before the duration runs out, did you really do anything to deserve an assist? Sure, you might throw 1000 damage into a 1500 shield. But if the remaining 500 breaks because the duration of the shield runs out, it doesnt matter if you did 0 damage or 1000 damage.
AHScoven (EUW)
: one of the most broken active in the game that only 3 champions use. LMAO.
Theres a reason why they nerfed the damage so harshly - because its a broken active. Stop with your "OmG...mAGes sO wEAk" circlejerk. It isnt true as is reflected by their winrate. If anyrthing, ADCs are weak for most ranks.
: We lost 50AP from Zhonya's alone, so it's way more than 50. Also blue buff. Also banshee = old abyssal in terms of stats (more or less). Also we lost abyssal passive. Meanwhile, AD gained even more items to counter/delay burst.
Zhonyas was nerfed down (or a previous buff was reverted, depending on how you want to look at it) to give 100 AP a long time ago. The mage update brought that down 30 - not 50. You lost the Abyssal passive for the Banshees passive, which I'd say is pretty equal. Then you got the protobelt, which might be one of the most broken items actives in the game. The only item that got significantly nerfed was Rylais. Some (ahem - the only) WoTA user kinda got screwed but got his playstyle changed to not need it.
Show more

ChaoticPinecone

Level 157 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion