: I want to say "Don't go" but when you're ready, you are ready. I don't want to go, but if I gotta go, I gotta go, too. But if you're searching for a reason to take an action hard enough, generally speaking, you will definitely find one. Don't let others decide your fate for you, or twist you into making a decision that you know is not "your" decision, anything you do you will have more satisfaction if you are the one who chooses to do this. If you go, though... whatever destiny you carve out for yourself... better be Legendary. {{sticker:katarina-love}} I hope someone takes the time to read your essay. You seem like a stand-up guy off the Rift.
I appreciate the kind words, but on a personal level the toxicity is so strong it breaks me. I find it bringing out the worst in me, and over the years it has just been too much. I'll miss League because I love this game with a passion, but I'm not cut out to play a game if it affects me as much as it does. Its just not fun or healthy. I'm sure I will find other outlets to help me with my depression, just like I found League many years ago. Thank you for being nice in a sea of players who aren't.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYtjYfx4,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-10-09T11:30:28.280+0000) > > juggernauts do not deal raw sustained damage. yes they do. thats what theyre made for. are you high? {{champion:75}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:102}} etc. the purpose of these champions is to get into the enemy team and carry with sustained damage. > ap carries do not deal raw sustained damage with the exception high dps mages like azir/cassio. {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} are the biggest ones. > dive fighters do not even come close to dealing high sustained damage similar to marksman. {{champion:19}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}} all built to deal sustained damage. fighters except for juggernauts arent meant to deal the same dps as marksmen, but but theyre more durable in return, which should allow them to carry fights just the same. > the reason marksman get the attention is because they are the highest dps class and its not even close to anyone else. thats the iussue. they shouldnt be. they shouldnt even come close to skirmishers, and should at least be equal with juggernauts.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYtjYfx4,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2017-10-09T11:37:54.237+0000) > > yes they do. thats what theyre made for. are you high? > > {{champion:75}} {{champion:122}} {{champion:83}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:102}} etc. > > the purpose of these champions is to get into the enemy team and carry with sustained damage. > > {{champion:268}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:69}} > > are the biggest ones. > > {{champion:19}} {{champion:254}} {{champion:62}} > > all built to deal sustained damage. > > fighters except for juggernauts arent meant to deal the same dps as marksmen, but but theyre more durable in return, which should allow them to carry fights just the same. > > thats the iussue. they shouldnt be. > > they shouldnt even come close to skirmishers, and should at least be equal with juggernauts. wukong? warwick? what? are we playing the same game? what does wukong do when his abilities are on cooldown? sustained damage means damage that has low to no cooldown. ADCs have auto attacks, Azir has auto attacks, cassio E has sub 1 second cooldown. Kayle is an example. Juggernauts are literally gated by their cooldowns. Take Darius. when his Q is on cooldown all he does is auto attack. there are plenty of other HIGH DAMAGE dealers in League of Legends in other classes. But include Warwick makes me raise my eyebrows. That champion builds titanic hydra then full tank and has no real way of dealing massive sustained damage. I don't mean to be condescending but your definition of sustained damage is far from my definition.
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYtjYfx4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-08T23:53:25.403+0000) > > So Marksman in general are mandatory in league and will probably always to an extent be mandatory due to the need for consistent raw dps and objective taking. they are the only class that can really do it outside of a few select mages and the slayer class which is not safe enough dps. marksmen, skirmishers, ap carries, juggernauts, dive fighters. they are only ONE of a few carry classes who can deal raw, sustained damage, but are treated as if they were the only one.
juggernauts do not deal raw sustained damage. ap carries do not deal raw sustained damage with the exception high dps mages like azir/cassio. dive fighters do not even come close to dealing high sustained damage similar to marksman. the reason marksman get the attention is because they are the highest dps class and its not even close to anyone else. that part is fine. no one is saying they are the only types of champions allowed to deal high dps. its just they are by far the highest dps and that is why they are meta. and have been meta since forever.
Rioter Comments
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Skirting the line between "ADC in 2017" and "ADC in 2017" is a tough one. Ultimately, understanding and building towards the union of what would make designers at Riot happy with the game and also what players find fun, engaging and variant game to game is quite a challenge. Marksmen have a unique power curve, such that just nerfing them doesn't make much of an impact by itself. By supporting a late game fantasy, it almost by definition makes them quite hard to deal with late game. The balancing factor is that both teams have one, so they kind of neutralise each other. Ideally, most designers would prefer that teams can play variant classes of characters in the "support lane", but the way the game is constructed right now, Marksmen are pretty much the way to go due to their tower killing proficiency and late game scaling. Ideally, the best solution in this space is to find something that both players and designers are aligned on (eg. players feel like all roles have agency, designers feel like you can do any number of meaningfully different strategies to win). TLDR is that nerfing marksman doesn't automatically solve the problem. If players are inherently not happy about skirting the boundary between either ADC's being unable to touch tanks or ADC's being too powerful, it's possible that exploring some more fundamental changes to the way ADC's function is a potential option - which of course carry different costs and benefits.
gonna post this here in hopes someone might skim over it. if not no hard feelings. I made a post about an idea from a marksman main's perspective on how to make ADCs feel less bad to play against and to feel less shitty until you get 4 items. I suggested that the raw numbers of crit itemization go DOWN (as well as key lifesteal items like mercurial/bt) as well as nerfing IE's crit multiplier sligthly on top of that. To go hand in hand you could significantly lower the costs of these items so marksman can spike sooner, but their late game isn't quite insane as it is now since they have less total ad overall and their crits wont be quite as big. they will still be strong in the late game, but wont singlehandedly decide fights past 4 items. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bYtjYfx4-idea-to-help-marksmans-power-curve-feel-better-for-the-marksman-and-those-against-it
: I believe one of the things coming into the next patch is removing the cast time on his R2. The thinking in making the change was basically that the skill test should be in lining up the shot without the need for the additional self-imposed timing limitation on Ornn's end, especially when the need to redirect the R is frequently amidst the chaos of a teamfight. We'll be seeing how he's doing after this
that might actually be enough to be honest. the ult is game changing and very strong. its just really unreliable and clunky right now. if players can use it more often/reliably I Think it will make him A LOT stronger in team fights. Also will help him to set up ganks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYtjYfx4,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-08T23:53:25.403+0000) > > > 2 item spike = Offers decent DPS, but still can't deal with a front line or champs who have itemized 30+ armor efficiently. Ehh so we want a Shiv+IE adc to not be able to handle you cuz you got a low amount of armor on one item? I agree adcs are strong right now but that feels extreme.
> [{quoted}](name=RenownedWheat42,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bYtjYfx4,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-09T01:12:04.952+0000) > > Ehh so we want a Shiv+IE adc to not be able to handle you cuz you got a low amount of armor on one item? I agree adcs are strong right now but that feels extreme. what i outlined was not what i am suggesting. its the state of current adcs.
Rioter Comments
: That's basically spellvamp, not lifesteal, and no one's going to buy red elixir on MF at level 6 while Twitch will still have some lifesteal.
the point made was that MF can't heal off her ult and twitch can. mf can definitely heal off her ult. twitch does not get much healing off his ult until around 4 items anyway since hurricane > ie is the build right now. so for the sake of the point he was making about how twitch ult is superior in that regard, it really isn't until later. and later mf can get red pot and heal up. all his other points were good though. I just think people forget that red pot MF is really good.
Meddler (NA)
: One other note: I'm still catching up on all the Worlds games from last night, so will probably spend time in the thread later in the day more than in the next couple of hours.
I'll put it here since I like to throw out my random ideas that I know usually suck so someone can read it at least. For the mana one in the precision tree I think it needs some tweaks (prescence of mind? I think? its the option for mana sustain next to overheal and missing health heal and gold on kills) The original iteration was something like autoing or damaging an enemy champ grants stacks and you get a small amount of mana back after you go out of combat. the mana sustain for me when I tried it on Lucian (who is very mana hungry) was really not noticeable. some ideas in place of it: 1.) After taking damage from an enemy champion regain x% missing mana over 5 seconds. (similar to the health regen rune in the resolve tree) 2.) When in combat with enemy champions for more than 3 seconds have x% of mana costs refunded instantly on cast until combat is left (X seconds cooldown) 3.) Attacking an enemy champion grants stacks of (insert clever name here). After leaving combat with enemy champion regain mana equal to twice the stacks and gain half of that permanently to your maximum mana. (max 5 stacks per combat, max 200 extra maximum mana)
: Twitch needs a worse early game imo.
twitch lane phase is as bad as its always been. there just aren't any lane bullies and surviving lane is way too easy with relic/dorans shield +warlords. you basically bitch out the lane, give up some early cs if you must and survive to where you simply out scale. this was not possible in previous metas like the ghostblade lucian or Jhin type metas or even a meta where Caitlyn was strong. there just aren't any adcs who can lane bully that are worth picking. Draven is super strong early but if you fail to snowball (aka get camped) you are pretty much weaker than any other adc in the game. Miss Fortune is SUPER bad in this meta vs tanks since her sustained damage is total shit. Lucian has been gutted for bot lane to where if you don't snowball the game to shit you are gonna get outscaled and FAST. if you go crit on lucian(so you still scale) you just aren't strong enough early to bully hard enough. lucian has been gutted for bot lane. It doesn't help that cc supports just aren't very good right now compared to ardent supps since cc supports can't proc ardent. once ardent is nerfed you can safely pick a champ like thresh/blitz to counter these passive supports without fearing that if you fail to kill them you will be massively outscaled. Jhin, Lucian, MF, Draven, and Caitlyn are pretty much the premier lane bullies for the majority of the player base (throw in Kalista at very high elo) but you don't see them nearly as much as you see Kog, Twitch, Xayah, Trist right now. and thats because the scaling hyper carries have no problem surviving lane right now. It doesn't feel risky to pick any of those but maybe twitch. but even twitch can just give up the cs knowing his support can baby sit him later with ardent. I really can't wait for the new runes. some of these runes are super aggressive early and lane bullies have options once the rune system comes out. Some of them synergize really well with bullies and even though lethal tempo is definitely busted, it's not going to be as good in lane as press the attack. Hopefully lane bullies do their job then. But either way, Twitch needs to be looked at for a mini rework since his kit is SUPER unhealthy.
: Anyone else a big fan of seeing Twitch R and melt entire teams in worlds
I really just think its amusing how ridiculous Twitch is late game. He is basically an adc with 80% crit, 850 range, aoe damage because of hurricane and his ult pass through, and he has well over 2.00 attack speed since he has insanely good base attack speed and a massive attack speed steroid. that right there even without stealth is one of the best kits an adc can have if not THE best. all it lacks is self peel, but when you can do that much massive aoe that fast you don't really need to peel. people either have to flash on you and kill you immediately (when you are close to 850 range away LUL) or RUN while simultaneously getting melted. Now add a LONG duration stealth to that? like wait what. what the fuck. Twitch is fun to play only because of how hideously broken by design he is. there is no way he will ever be healthy as long as he has his ult AND his stealth on the same kit. The stealth probably wouldn't feel so bad if he only had 550 range since he's gotta put himself in a risky spot and committ to killing you. whereas with his ult he can just sneak up and blow you up MULTIPLE people from very far away. I mean in terms of a single hyper carry there's no question that twitch is the king. Kog maw and vayne are the best single target, but league isn't a 1 v 1, twitch can melt an entire team if you fail to get to him. and the amazing thing is that he's been like this for AGES. he is only balanced on the fact that his lane phase is utter trash. just like vayne. but when you can survive lane suddenly you are the best adc in the game. they really need to consider reworking twitch in a mini rework type of way. look at the ult or stealth, hit those and then buff him elsewhere so his lane isn't as bad since he won't scale so insanely.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shadow Hazard,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=afaa2gEX,comment-id=001f,timestamp=2017-10-06T23:17:55.699+0000) > > Technically MF is literally the exact same with her ult Except for these few things twitch can reposition while his ult is up twitch can flash while his ult is up twitch can do anything while his ult is up MF's ult is a skillshot and can be dodged twitch is point and click MF doesn't flank you with her ult twitch can proc lifesteal off of his ult and MF can't mf ult is heavily reliant on wombo combos whereas twitch can just q and get a good position on his own ... want me to go on?
while almost all of these are true. as an MF main if you buy red pot your ultimate can heal you from 5% to full if you hit 3 or more people with it. so that point is not true.
: Ezreal has met his yearly quota of doing something annoying
the klepto rune is deceptively good on him since every Q gives you 5 gold and potentially an item in lane. makes you able to play super aggressive since you have basically endless sustain and you get a shit ton of free gold.
Doodlzzz (NA)
: Brace yourselves, ADC's are coming to the midlane
after the E nerfs trist can't really go mid anymore. as an adc main I would have her as a pocket pick in mid situationally against immobile mages with low self peel and no sustained damage. so if i was against a xerath, lux, or maybe sol just because of how easy it is early to dodge his damage I might pick her. previously you could rush flat armor pen and the E would fuck people up post level 4. you would just bait out their peel and jump in on them, nothing they can do. now a days that just doesnt work even as a niche, the E nerfs are noticeable.
: No targeted date at the moment, but he is a topic we're discussing pretty regularly. We don't just want to outright buff him, and so things don't seem as easy as some numbers to help bump him up at the moment. Imo, he needs some kind of small reshaping to address power curve, positional, and item abuse issues.
I suggested this in another thread, but potentially could you guys remove some of his AD scaling and add crit damage scaling to his abilities. I don't mean to make the abilities crit, but to make them scale WITH crit. (like Xayah E does right now). This would mainly apply to his Q and R I think, but could help buff bot lane lucian while making him weaker with builds like the bork build.
: Only somewhat related, but does anyone have any good ideas for an interesting version of Sunfire Cape that you'd be excited to use and play against? We've been slow to buff Sunfire because the gameplay it brings when it's good isn't very interesting or fun, and so it's at best overly niche right now. That said, leaving it pretty bleh isn't the right treatment, and we would like to do something with it to make it worth its spot in the shop. So if you have any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them. Buffing its stats or the damage of its current effect probably wouldn't cut it.
keep the aoe damage the same, but it only works on minions. then add a new part where after 3 seconds in combat the sunfire empowers your auto attacks for on hit magic damage burn. (kind of like red buff, but magic damage and without the slow)
GigglesO (NA)
: Stop gimping tank runes
the resolve tree in general is a complete joke. the stats and unique runes it gives are trash compared to the other super cool runes in other trees. it needs buffing across the board. the only decent runes imo are grasp, font of life, second wind, and demolish.
: Petition to add a Resolve rune that lets tanks PROTECT towers.
they need to look at the conditioning trio of runes in the resolve tree. all 3 are total shit, and not worth taking on anyone who isn't a tank. and for a tank they feel bad. that means the resolve tree is too weak imo. it needs massive buffing. grasp is the only good aspect of it right now. font of life is OK, and second wind is decent.
Seekor (NA)
: Just go afk or click all the way down a lane and walk away. I dont like doing these sorts of things as it breaks the "summoners code" but being forced to play through something thats just plain out not fun and sometimes stress inducing i will not do.
don't do this. i got 14 day ban for giving up in a game where my singed was inting. my singed ran it down mid into the enemy base and was like 0/6 by 5 minutes. and typing shit like "im a support" (autofilled) so I said "open mid" and just gave up. and afk farmed while they pushed out bot. I got reported for giving up myself by my top and mid. just play it out and maybe give a half assed effort, but don't blatantly give up or you could get banned.
SirLime (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4Bt0ROna,comment-id=002100000000,timestamp=2017-09-29T21:34:53.458+0000) > > 1800 range is way too high. if his range was nerfed to where it capped at maybe his level 11 range he would be healthy. > > but you really are underestimating how big 1800 range is. like you can hit people from fog of war over a screen away. you can poke people and they can't even see you. it isn't at all considering the rest of his kit and that's why he has the shit mid winrates that he does (low 40s on leagueofgraphs) you're just blinded by one ability (which again, isn't even good poke vs normal targets after the changes and it takes 30 minutes to reach that 1800 range) I could sit here and make a huge thread about how OP Yasuo's windwall is or Fizz's E, Kayn's E or Brand's R or a million other things. None of those abilities exist by themselves. Ultimately, what determines whether something is OP or not is actual performance in higher ELO as well as competitive.
im not arguing that ap kog is op. im saying he's balanced currently and doesn't need buffs. and you can't really buff him too much because of his toxic ultimate. regardless of game balance its very toxic. yasuo's windwall is also toxic. but t hat's a discussion for another thread.
SirLime (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4Bt0ROna,comment-id=0021,timestamp=2017-09-29T20:15:08.476+0000) > > ap kog is fine. its still viable. it just takes longer to ramp up and his wave clear isn't quite as good although its still good. > > > Ive played it a few times since the nerfs. its not strong as in meta strong, but its not bad either. > > and that's how it should be. > > his ult has 1800 range on a 1 second cooldown late game. > > that's stupid. sure its gated by rising mana cost, but with a huge mana pool (seraphs + nomicon) its pretty easy to spam like 4 or 5 of them and then wait to reset for poke. and then in a team fight u can jsut exhaust your entire mana pool. > > nevemrind that is E has huge range and does a shit ton of damage with ap. > > the main play pattern of ap kog is the ult though. > > and that ult has to be gated the way it is. > > if it goes back to the way it was you can just endlessly spam that shit and reset very quickly. it makes siege kog insanely oppressive if the enemy does not have dive. hell he STILL is if the enemy does not have a way of getting to him. > > > AP kog is super unhealthy. fun, but unhealthy. and this is coming from a player who had an account dedicated to just playing ap kog. > > > I don't think you should want ap kog to be buffed anyway because if hes strong enough to be meta that means he is banned and if hes banned you can't play him. It's not unhealthy in the slightest with the current kit (you may have a point if you're talking about his kit back when R did double damage to champions regardless of HP). Anything can be made to sound that way on paper. The truth is, AP Kog is the opposite of unhealthy to such an extent that he's barely viable. He's not a Riven with infinite jumps and shields or an Ekko who does what he pleases then ults. when in trouble or as a finisher, a Kassadin diving your back line then blinking out every 2 seconds, or Morg mid (basically ungankable, pushes and spellvamps up while shielding damage... she Qs you die if it lands) etc. Despite his range, he has a very unforgiving style and is more dependent on his team/vision than other champions. Just because something has long range (and his poke's pathetic now unless you're at his thresholds) doesn't automatically make them unhealthy and nor can you focus on a single ability then make it out to be that the entire champion is unhealthy just because that one thing is strong. AP Kog's problem is actually that there is TOO MUCH counterplay to him both in terms of strategy and just mechanically. Plus, with how his kit is now, you absolutely have to use his entire kit if you don't want to be a liability. The old sit back and R style does not work outside of cleanup.
1800 range is way too high. if his range was nerfed to where it capped at maybe his level 11 range he would be healthy. but you really are underestimating how big 1800 range is. like you can hit people from fog of war over a screen away. you can poke people and they can't even see you.
Poske (EUNE)
: Eh Idk MM The river mastery is gimmicky garbage The whole aa to get trinkets elixirs mana pots mastery is RNG fiesta garbage There are few more utterly pointless gimmicky useless ones but it is definetly better then what we have now If this is all they have in plan for the preaseason then .. UGH disgusting Game is in horrible state
the klepto rune is actually insanely overpowered in lane. it falls off later, but in lane its busted. you basically have endless sustain, vision to protect yourself so you can keep playing aggro, and you can even deny the enemy vision so your jungler can gank your lane if you get an orcales. its VERY good. especially on champs that can proc it often. i ran it on ezreal and every Q was an extra 5 gold and potentially an item. the river rune is actually not that bad since it gives you MOVE speed too which means primarily it helps you rotate faster. its good on mid laners.
SirPurrr (NA)
: Nearly 1/3 of Kog Players Went AP Before the Latest Reworks
ap kog is fine. its still viable. it just takes longer to ramp up and his wave clear isn't quite as good although its still good. Ive played it a few times since the nerfs. its not strong as in meta strong, but its not bad either. and that's how it should be. his ult has 1800 range on a 1 second cooldown late game. that's stupid. sure its gated by rising mana cost, but with a huge mana pool (seraphs + nomicon) its pretty easy to spam like 4 or 5 of them and then wait to reset for poke. and then in a team fight u can jsut exhaust your entire mana pool. nevemrind that is E has huge range and does a shit ton of damage with ap. the main play pattern of ap kog is the ult though. and that ult has to be gated the way it is. if it goes back to the way it was you can just endlessly spam that shit and reset very quickly. it makes siege kog insanely oppressive if the enemy does not have dive. hell he STILL is if the enemy does not have a way of getting to him. AP kog is super unhealthy. fun, but unhealthy. and this is coming from a player who had an account dedicated to just playing ap kog. I don't think you should want ap kog to be buffed anyway because if hes strong enough to be meta that means he is banned and if hes banned you can't play him.
Fearless (NA)
: Runes, Expectation, and the FUTUUUUUUUUUUUUUUURE!
Question for anyone since I feel its a serious issue from my games I've noticed on PBE. are the resolve tree armor/mr runes going to be buffed in the future? they are really underwhelming to where you only take them cuz you have to because you want the resolve tree. no one would ever take them as a secondary. if not, are all champions going to get some base armor/mr compensation? almost everyone took +9 armor (or scaling health) and +12 mr was the standard on almost every page. especially on champs that need it like ADCs. right now on PBE squishies are VERY squishy. like they explode to anything and flat magic pen is way to strong b ecause of it. will all the champs get a slight stat buff across the board to make up for the defensive stats lost?
: A full mage build cost about 17000 while an ADC cost 15000
you left out a lifesteal item in favor of GA. no adc is gonna do that really. they usually have at least one lifesteal item. and those items are 3600-3800 gold respectively. ADC items also suck individually. if you buy a PD on an adc by itself or a shiv by itself you aren't gonna do much really. combine it with IE or ER and its good. thats the trade off.
: It's funny you bother to bring my rank into this when... 1) Being bronze I still know how to deal with a champ like Tryndamere. 2) You seem to show a great bias against Pantheon without supporting argument. Panth is a champ who thrives or withers based on his match-up, so I am going to assume you are salty he counters your favorite top. 3) You acknowledge Shaco is a shadow of the terror he used to be capable of but somehow still think he is a problem to play against. My Bronze opinion is you haven't given real thought to champion kits on a whole and are crying about snowball champs you lose to and don't know how to deal with when there are some truly toxic champ designs out there.
you want an argument against pantheon. here you go. pantheon has two point and click abilities, range harass in a melee matchup that has basically zero counterplay. if you are a melee into pantheon he just Q's you until he can all in you. smart players know this so they just surrender the early game and try to survive. tryndamere's only real counterplay is to cc him during his ult or have mobility to get away and even then it can be very hard to deal with him. his kit lends itself to snowballing but also due to the nature of being able to not die for 5 seconds he can just afk farm back into the game against weaker opponents. both are very binary, very awful in their design. they aren't op. this post isnt about whats op. these champs usually get gutted or hammered down to not be oppressive.
: Shaco is nowhere near his past days of murderous mayhem. Akali is in an unhealthy place for anyone playing her more than against. The Twitch Bitching is getting out of hand considering how squishy he is. Panth? Wut? Tryn? Dude, CC ruins his ult. This is a poor list. You leave out the toxic infinite stacking Nasus and Veigar, the memelord that is Garen, and the "doesn't matter if you beat me up, now I have ult and kill" Zed. Down voting.
you are entitled to your bronze 3 opinion, but I strongly disagree with it. pantheon deserves to be on this list. shaco is only not as bad because he's been gutted. the only people who play the champ now are those that just enjoy shaco's playstyle. shaco basically went from toxic ad assassin, to an ap burst cheese assassin, to a tiamat tank bruiser build. and all of those builds have been gutted at one point or another. he needs a rework and badly.
Rioter Comments
: You won't _kill her_ because she's going to run away with her mobility, but that doesn't mean that she is gonna kill you. Her damage just doesn't feel high enough to do anything meaningful unless she's fed.
her damage is very high with jsut gunblade in the mid game. she doesnt need to be snow balled to kill you. she needs to be snowball and win the game off her mid game though since she cant kill an adc late game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=P5yX8nbq,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2017-09-21T16:08:39.796+0000) > > well they reworked it to be a good combo with liandry's. so a rylais/liandrys champ cna do well with it. > > Malz, Brand, and I don't play them much but I'm sure Aurelion Sol and Karthus probably could build rylais well. > > but thats very few champions. I Think they pushed its niche too far. Personally I would rather it get even weaker stats and a stronger slow. so you pay for a strong utility. > > like bring back the 40% slow, but make it only 60 ap so you are sacrficing a lot for that slow. > > the item isn't terrible, but it's just not appealing to a wide array of champions. reworked it? I always though it was a good combo with Liandry's regardless of it's iteration. There is a slight complication with your proposal. While sacrificing Damage for utility sounds like fair trade off, it's bound to get abused by champs, who never cared about stats to begin with. (I.E. Supports) And while 2600 gold is quite a bit compared to most support items, it's not completely out of their budget range. Crystal scepter is pretty much going to be a niche item, but until we decide which niche it should fill, we can't really pick a direction for it. At the moment, it's sitting between a slot ineffecent APC item, and a somewhat expensive support item.
i cant think of many supports who could abuse it. nami isn't going to build this over locket/redemption/ardent. neither is sona or any other enchanter. so i don't see it being abused by supports. and as for being built on champs who don't even want the damage anyway, whats wrong with that? the item needs a niche, and right now it doesn't really have one besides being built on DOT champions who also build liandrys. (who don't already have a slow in their kit)
: Rylai is no longer built on Mordekaiser otps
well they reworked it to be a good combo with liandry's. so a rylais/liandrys champ cna do well with it. Malz, Brand, and I don't play them much but I'm sure Aurelion Sol and Karthus probably could build rylais well. but thats very few champions. I Think they pushed its niche too far. Personally I would rather it get even weaker stats and a stronger slow. so you pay for a strong utility. like bring back the 40% slow, but make it only 60 ap so you are sacrficing a lot for that slow. the item isn't terrible, but it's just not appealing to a wide array of champions.
: do protect the kog comps exist anymore?
kog is a problem in general. now that he's returned to get massive free % health on his damage, and rageblade exists, he's just too good built with cheap on hit items and rageblade. rageblade needs to be reworked so kog can't do the insane dmg that he currently does. he was fine when people were still building him trinity (albeit a bit weak) after his rework revert. but once they realized you could still go rageblade it was all over. he is a hyper carry with a one item spike. its busted. no hyper carry should spike at one item. between kog, trist, and twitch there's not much reason to play anyone else. I'm a Lucian, Ezreal, MF player with a bit of trist and its pretty miserable right now. I either pick trist or put my team at a disadvantage. they need to look at nerfing trist E further, getting rid of phantom hit on rageblade and replacing it with something else, and reworking twitch to not be as cancer as he is. because twitch is pretty weak in lane, but in a meta where lane bullies often aren't worth it, he gets to scale up. and that means he either is oppressive like he is now or completley unplayable.
Yenn (NA)
: One sided games and intentional feeding grows exponentially as you approach Diamond V
eh plat 2- d5 is just the true elo hell of league for everyone if you aren't good enough to be d4 or better. thats lal there is to it. players are good enough to snowball their leads to shit and dont dick around. they close out games. there are still some throws but they are few and far between. usually dying twice in lane to anyone is gg for that lane and if your jungle is incompetent its gg even if all 3 lanes win usually becuase your jungler will be out pressured, lose all objectives and you get shit on. that said just keep grinding. if you deserve to climb out to d5 you will. its annoying that the games are pub stompy once you hit high plat, but thats just part of the game. i tilt sometimes too. take a break.
: Twitch has been terrorizing solo queue all season and has an amazing winrate in pros
anyone who thinks Kalista isn't fundamentally a problem has not played against her in solo queue in higher elos. in the hands of a player who has actualy invested time into the champ and has good mechanics shes a nightmare. her laning is actually really hard to deal with due to the fact rend makes her win pretty much any extended trade. she has the mobility to force fights and chase you down like lucian only its not gated by a cooldown so you have to respect her short hop engage range. outside of lane shes awful for melee champs to kill. like unless you got ranged siege/aoe she is gonna have a field day with your t eam. and even though she technically falls off late game in dps it doesnt matter because shes almost impossible to kill when she gets QSS, enough lifesteal to drain tank, and has the peel from locket/redemption that other adcs get on top of their support and front line to play behind. I played a game recently where we stomped her in lane, but once she got QSS no one on my team could catch her and she just had a field day in team fights. she needs a rework. specifically aimed at her passive. her passive is fun to play with but that it has no cooldown, is not gated by a ramp up or anything means she is just so hard to catch. on top of having the ability to save a support and engage with a support is nuts. she also has best in class objective taking
: Thanks for making this thread OP. As a 600k MF main, its nice to feel the love for our fav champ! Here's hoping they give her a look during the pre-season or sooner. They had some attack speed related changes a while back that got pulled off the PTR. I think they should consider giving {{champion:21}} tools to help love tap work better in lane. Things like bonus attack range, move speed, attack speed for short duration after love tapping an enemy champ. This would help her live the fantasy of target swapping frequently. They should also consider having love tap benefit from crit, which would solidify crit as the way to go.
move speed after love tap would be interesting as well. I also like the idea of bonus range on an un love tapped target. interesting! if a target that didn't have love tap could give you pseudo extra range on that target only (and other targets who don't have love tap applied) than that would be cool. a decent alternative to my idea for sure. the only downside to this I feel is that there would be no downtime on her increased range so long as she is swapping targets. which might be op. she could in theory have 100% uptime with my suggestion too, but thats not until she is 3 items. which is ok then i Feel. having massively increased range in lane would make her a MASSIVE bully since she can get rid of love tap on an enemy very quickly by hitting a minion. and in lane she'd almost always have the move speed boost. her laning isn't really a problem right now as she is still a big bully. its just that with 550 range she doesn't do much outside of lane against a lot of comps. and her sustained damage is total dick. Love tap already does too much damage to benefit from much else to be honest. it has a 100% ad ratio which basically gives you a free crit on your first auto. and then if you crit on top of that its like a 350% auto damage crit. thats pretty absurd. if your shiv procs thats up to another 400 magic damage. its just really unhealthy. I think they need a new passive or to nerf the ratio. someone here suggested to bring back impure shots and put it on her passive in place of love shots and then fix her ad scaling. I like this idea the best. as long as it doesnt deal magic damage of course.
: AD Crit leblanc kills ppl faster than full AP burst leblanc
your point? you can kill anyone late game with multiplicative scaling items. nothing will scale harder than items that multiply their own damage off of each other. and crit chance, crit damage, attack speed, and attack damage all do this. try killing a leblanc 1 v 1 before 3/4 items. you aren't going to.
: So I just tested a new build for Mordekaiser and then it hit me...
wouldnt a rylais instead of steraks be too good to pass up. sure you sacrifice the shield, but the rylais/liandry's burn on ult is insanely good considering how long it lasts.
: They're cheap because crit chance is a weak stat if you don't have Infinity Edge. Which is their most expensive item.
its actually not. IE/ER are 200 gold cheaper than BT now.
: Remove Mordekaiser's W XP passive
the problem is not the exp or the ability to fight adcs. adcs have the range but if that melee finds a way on top of the adc they are pretty much donezo. its why cheese lanes still do work. its that no other class can really take objectives quickly AND safely. besides ziggs there really isn't anyone who can. I heard wildapsona does sona with lich bane to take towers pretty quick, but beyond that I haven't seen anything rival adc dps. and evne then im sure those champs dont rival adc dps on baron/drag. what they need to do is make adcs scale less hard late game but have a better early game to round out their power curve. and then give other forms of objective taking to other classes. whether it be huge burst to major objectives, the new demolisher type runes, or introducing new dps mages/melees into the game who have some way of taking towers safely from range.
: Could Soraka's sweetspot ever come back?
champion is just total cancer to lane against. Q is way too easy to land. personally I'd be ok if the heal was tied solely to the sweet spot. either that or the heal you get from not landing in the sweet spot is super weak. right now its just too easy to land a Q on people.
Rioter Comments
Jharr (NA)
: > is Janna dangerously close to becoming Not an ADC, just close to becoming one. Lol, scary thought though isn't it? You're brain won't allow you to even consider that she is like 1 step away from being an ADC. Imagine her Q with AD scaling or her new passive dealing %HP damage base on bonus MS instead of a flat amount :)
shes not even close to becoming one. read my post. i explained why with logic and reason. she is not a few changes. she would systematically have to be reworked. its not that my brain wont allow it to consider it. its that I've thought about it and its not even close. you are really stretching here. good try though.
Jharr (NA)
: About Janna, is it just me...
no. just no. stop and think. janna will have 550 auto range and no ad scalings on any of her abilities. no attack speed steroids either. 550 range is VAYNE range which is really short effective dps range. vayne is actually trash because of this despite the fact she is absolutely busted in terms of dps/mobility and even she has a form of self peel (condemn) Janna is not "dangerously close" to being an adc. if you want self peel you would go tristana who is mobile, has resets, burst damage, longer range, attack speed steroids, her abilities scale with ad, and some of the best self peel for adcs in the game. or xayah who also attack speed, damage steroids, untargetability, wave clear, poke, and burst damage. the only enchanter who could theoretically be close to being an adc is lulu and thats because she has an attack speed steroid and an auto enhancer in pix. her W can also be used offensively in a 1 v 1 to win that as well. however, lulu only has 500 range, even less than Vayne and zero abilities that scale with AD that she can use to harass with or even team fight with. which means her team fight and laning effective threat range is 500. which is trash. thats lucian without the mobility or damage. no. just....no.
: i would rather have cait ivern karma back then this heal barrier ardent shit
no thanks. both suck. hyper carry metas mean lane bullies have no place. and thats REALLY bad. lane bullies who cant bully. so useless champs? got it. Ivern at his peak was absolute cancer to play against. and cait/karma in bot was basically an auto loss if the jungler didn't show up early to make them respect him. Cait in general is a cancerous design. hopefully the 30 second duration traps make her lane phase less oppressive now that she's getting a full revert. but let's not pretend all that meta was better. they both fucking sucked. hyper carries should never ever be the meta without at least being able to be punished by lane bullies. I mean there aren't really any lane bullies left in bot. lucian gutted so hard he is a mid laner only now, MF is super bad vs tanks, and Jhin is also super bad vs tanks.
iLBGAMing (EUW)
: Champions that ACTUALLY need a rework
i see skarner as a niche pick and mundo is always played due to his simplicity. mundo needs a rework more because of how easy it is to counter his kit. either he's oppressive cuz grievous wounds can't stop him, or he's useless cuz grievous wounds can. he's just outdated. and aatrox is literally has a gameplay update coming up similar to xin zhao but apparently more in depth. just be patient there. its coming.
: Nasus's Q change wasn't too bad, but the veigar one means we're heading in a direction I don't like
games are not decided in the first 15 minutes as hard as you lead on. if so you would only see lane bullies, especially in bot lane like Lucian/MF/Jhin. but they aren't meta? why because games average aroudn 30-35 minutes. we just aren't in the 40-45 minute metas of season 5 which were honestly cancer. it was stall and wave clear forever. azir vs viktor in pro play. was awful. what they need to do with some of these champs is give them a better lane phase that isn't good or even remotely strong, but not completely fucking atrocious either. then they have a chance at scaling up. currently veigar's lane is so fucking bad he cannot lane safely really against competent opponents. vayne has this problem. nasus has this problem (still) and cho gath even still has this problem. the only time you see these champions get picked is when they are hideously broken when they scale. cho is pick or ban right now and nasus is even seeing pro play as a niche counterpick to tanks. I don't like the direction they are going but its clear they just want these scaling champs to scale insanely hard. i wish they would make them scale less hard and give them better early games. like vayne doesn't need a reset on her ult. Veigar doesn't need a super low cooldown meteor shower. they need a chance to scale up. and fight in lane phase.
: Yup Lucian definitely need some **budding**.
> [{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XpJNRAcE,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-09-13T14:03:05.087+0000) > > Yup Lucian definitely need some **budding**. eks dee
: > [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XpJNRAcE,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-09-13T09:57:14.307+0000) > > its not even a matter of him not being meta. he wasn't meta until bork was a thing. he was out of the meta for a LONG time. once bork got reworked he came back. > > like I said in the original post. crit lucian has been balanced for a long time or at least isn't oppressive. right now crit lucian is undertuned in the mid game which is his strongest point. his late game is nasty but due to his short range and lack of utility Lucian isn't a champ that wants to go to the late game. its a conflicting thing. > > I'm not suggesting you buff him to the point where he's a monster again. he's already pretty good. but he's just not good in bot lane due to how he scales. he has to pubstomp which in this meta vs sustain/shield supps its very hard to punish the enemy bot lane hard enough to justify picking lucian over any other better scaling adc. > > He should still be a crit based champion as I feel almost all adcs should have this as their primary build with other builds being an "option" but not mandatory. > > Right now Lucian is balanced around the old ghostblade/cleaver build which was gutted. and now bork/cleaver. > > He's just not good with crit because of it. he's still playable, but at this point you are only playing him because you enjoy him, not because he can compete in this meta. > > in an ideal world all the adcs will bring some form of strength to the table. Lucian, MF, and Jhin are so far out of the meta that its not even worth picking them most of the time. and its not because they are necessarily heavily undertuned, they just have very conflicting identities. (mainly MF/Lucian) both those champs only scale well with crit but if you go the bork/cleaver build you will do absolutely dick to tanks at 3 items which is absolutely necessary in this meta for adcs in the bot lane. > > in the mid lane lucian can get away with it because he's not the primary adc, but in bot lane he better close out the game and fast if he goes bork/cleaver. Jhin and mf both strong picks with options and are doing ok in this meta, Mf in low elo especially. In the adc meta where hypercarries are more popular due to more protection, tanks peeling, ardent censor and support that sheild bot or heal the adc, and i.e./shiv is the powerspike for ad's. Lucian is a lane bully but he can't effectively bully the carry since supports now negate most or not entirely all his harass this goes for cait aswell whose recently been gutted into trash tier. Jhin and mf (draven but still perms banned) are good lane bullies to the extent because they can still zone out the carries farm, poke AND bring utility they can shut down a hypercarry early game especially mf with her Q and poke function. But I agree with your idea.
mf and jhin are not ok in this meta. they only have decent win rates higher up because the players who play them know the games they can play them. the games they can play them they can perform well, but in this meta they are bad. and you can never blind pick them. both are so bad into tanks that if you first pick jhin or MF and they stack tanky champions (2 or 3) you are fucked. you will do nothing that game.
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Charlie Tilts U

Level 30 (NA)
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