delalb (NA)
: i am talking about if an AP champ wants grevious wounds to counter heal, he needs all 3k gold to get that. do u know how long it takes to have that gold in game to complete that item? i am not comparing that other stat of the item. what i am trying to say is that AP champ needs so much gold in order to have that. it's unfair. like u play talon mid, u only need 800 gold, but if u play ahri, u need 3k gold.
And i'm telling you the drawbacks of the ad counterpart. Morellonomicon itself is a useful item in most situations, although it's more expensive. Executioners is cheaper itself, but it forces you to use an item slot on an item that has bad stats until you complete it, and even once it's compete it won't really be fully utilized unless the enemy has a noticeably large number of tanky champions. Not every ad item and ap item needs to be equal, there are intended weaknesses for each class. Mages tend to be very pokey, so sustain naturally counters that. Why would riot make an item to get rid of that intended weakness?
delalb (NA)
: why AD champ only need 800 gold to get grevious wounds while AP champ need 3K gold to have that?
While the ad version is cheaper, the item itself is bad statwise. The full version of it also sucks unless the enemy team has a lot of tanks in addition to healing. Morellonomicon will almost always be worth buying since it has good stats.
: how would you know ur p5
haha jokes on you im only gold 4
Rioter Comments
: Why These ADC Changes Are Actually More Brutal Than Most Seem to Be Seeing
IK it's not that important, but IE is not 3400. It's 3600. And while yes IE is no longer a good first purchase, it never really was. IE was an ok first purchase, not remarkable unless you were really ahead or were playing a champion who scales better with ad, like MF or Jhin. I feel like if people don't go back to buying BT or BOTRK first, it'l probably just become BF->Zeal item->IE. EDIT: was wrong about IE. 3400. When you see it on the google page, it is 3600, but 3400 on the page itself. mb
: YOU also get ZERO life steal on rhyze at all and that build you just listed is silly. you get tear and rod, plenty of ryzes dont even get zhonyas any longer, and certainly they dont get liandrys. Ryze is also just one single example, just because ryze gets one or two items that have a defensive stat does not mean that there aren't mid laners who get none.
Maybe not ryze, but a lot of other mages do get at least one or two of those items within their first 3 items. Mages don't have lifesteal because they should be using their superior range and cc.
: So when a ryze in a pro game goes heavy on damage and does something like 20k to an adcs 40k+ that's acceptable? Not sure where this idea that somehow plenty of mid laners aren't made of glass comes from but they aren't exactly wading in defense. They also have zero sustain items when adcs get life steal galore. I mean shit a statik proc on a minion wave with bloodthirster restores an absurd amount of health. Hilarious you're trying to justify those kind of dpm figures over other roles. That's not even mentioning the fact that their dps is the easiest and most reliable to get off considering it comes in great majority via right clicking from range.
Alright, compare Ryze's utility to an adcs. How many adc's have a point and click snare? How many ADCs can give themselves shields. How many adcs can teleport their entire team? Why should a champion with a lot more utility, and unique utility at that, have as much damage as one without that utility? How many adcs can do all of that, while providing respectable dps and burst. Or how about how many commonly built adc items have real defense attached? And I don't mean tech choices, like maw if the enemy team is heavy magic damage. I mean core items. items that 90% of the time, you're going to build. And if were talking about ryze, he uses rod of ages, an item with 300-500 health. Rod of ages, seraphs with its shield, morello book, liandrys, zhonyas. As far as core adc items with defense attached, you have lifesteal which is susceptible to burst, and maybe PD. Most adc's don't pick up guardian angel and even PD isn't that common on most adc builds. Lets think about zhonyas for a second. That active is so powerful, that people changed their runes so that they could use that active once. You also have to compare when both classes get these items. Mages get these items as their first few items. ADCs don't get these until they've finished at the very least, 2 core items. Usually 3. That means that mages get these defenses for most of the game, and adc's won't have these defenses until near the end. Or how about consider how much range most mages have over adcs. JSYK, shiv doesn't proc lifesteal.
: Sheriff a rookie adc in eu lcs averaged 1.2k dpm in a week as adc. That's really all that needs to be said, their reliability of damage, damage potential and absolute requirement for objective securing and the like makes them so overloaded as a role it's absurd.
tbh i'd really hope a class that is designed to be glass cannons, a class that almost only builds damage, a class that is designed to do high amounts of total damage, would deal the most damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chief Mayonnaise,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ncacfwz9,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-01-11T05:42:16.964+0000) > > It's reverting the nerf that was given somewhere in preseason 5. This split the bonus attack speed from her minigun form so that half of it would scale with her level and the 30/40/50%.... was from leveling the ability. She's not actually doubling her attack speed steroid, it's just putting the leveling bonus AS back onto the ability. Not preseason 5. Like late season 5 or so.
: "Jinx isn't as strong as the other hypercarries so we're going to massively buff her right clicking"
It's reverting the nerf that was given somewhere in preseason 5. This split the bonus attack speed from her minigun form so that half of it would scale with her level and the 30/40/50%.... was from leveling the ability. She's not actually doubling her attack speed steroid, it's just putting the leveling bonus AS back onto the ability.
: How does Vayne's W damages works with crits?
The auto attack itself can crit, but the true damage portion is unaffected.
Bhagswag (NA)
: so wouldn't extremely pokey ADC's be best here. Caitlyn, Ezreal, Jhin? Since they could keep harassing the other ADC while he/she is waiting for those 2 stacks of relic shield to come back?
: Does anyone talk about the massive, massive, MASSIVE buff to Sheen?
: QOL For MF's W: Strut
Not sure if I would go as far as Dots like Teemo poison, but it should at least not get knocked out by minion damage. Literally 1 caster projectile takes it out.
Rioter Comments
Instinqt (NA)
Caught the video the other day, decided to give it a try. 4/4/30. Don't even play bard that much, but was fun af. Will try again.
: Was playing a match with Morgana vs Zoe... found out black shield doesnt block the sleep effect...
You can block it if you apply black shield before the target is hit with the spell itself, but it won't block it if drowsy is already applied. I don't necessarily agree with it, but that's how it works.
: Off topic but:
Yeah that was an old name I used on xbox. This one is my main account.
: > [{quoted}](name=xToxicOsirisx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dwrzs2Hu,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-11-29T00:19:39.009+0000) > >Bad players complain about the state of the game instead of trying to adapt to the game. At what point of the game is Vayne three shotting me with two items or more considered acceptable level of gameplay? I don't give a shit if she's a late game carry, dying in three hits isn't acceptable level of gameplay. Oops I forgot to adapt I guess xd
Go ahead and voice that opinion. That's not complaining about mains, it's concerning vayne. That's perfectly fine. This post is about using player behavior as bias towards certain classes.
: While most of your post is reasonable. "Bad players complain about the state of the game instead of trying to adapt to the game." This is decidedly untrue. Good players have more than enough reason to complain about balance and just because they complain, it doesn't mean they are not adapting at the same time.
I'll give you that one. That point is more towards the kind of player that complains when their favorite strategy doesn't work, its because of the game and not the player. Or when they make no effort to change their strategy so it can work.
Amarajah (NA)
: Can we make ADC hypercarries have an actual weak laning phase
They are weak laning phase. Strong laners, however, are weak. it also doesn't help that shield/heal supports are so meta.
needHymn (NA)
: Is there no mechanics to Xayah's "leap into the air" on her ult, other than purely visuals?
As somebody else said, she becomes untargetable like fizz e. This is a very useful effect cause it can allow her to avoid most kinds of damages, other than dots that have already been applied. She could ult over a veigar stun wall, avoid skillshots with it. She can even avoid zeds deathmark if she ults as zed comes out of his ult.
: You guys see today's (10/18) round of PBE nerfs to Ardent Censor ? Now watch as...
I think you're looking at the wrong part of the nerf. They reduced the early attack speed from 20% to 10% and the starting on-hit damage from 20 to 5. Ardent censer is strong because it gives adcs power during the midgame. Late game its still useful, but 35 on hit magic damage is almost nothing. Yes, 5% isn't much, but thats because its looking like it was meant to be an early/midgame nerf rather than a late game nerf.
: Although I agree with you, they are not better in some scenarios. For example, Warwick having a skillshot Ult. There are probably more scenarios, but I can't think of any atm. This is unrelated, but I like your username.
Rioter Comments
Xavanic (NA)
: So when will adcs be made squishy?
How about you stop picking assassins into supports who are meant to counter assassins. You know, the supports who effectively double the hp and resistances of whoever they shield. In what world do you think you should be able to burst through that much health?
: > [{quoted}](name=Rockem Sockm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kvOdcktG,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-06T15:33:57.120+0000) > > You want a champion that can auto win a 1v2, regardless of gold lead or circumstances. Why would I be talking about 1 vs 2, I said post-15 minutes, this isn't laning phase, this is teamfight phase, AKA send-kog-down-mid-with-shields-and-end-the-game phase.
Because no skilled adc will be wandering around without somebody else. That's the point.
: > [{quoted}](name=Calabok,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KQqAo3c2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-26T07:00:00.487+0000) > > you kill em what if they are a Janna? and just ult you away
: Typical ADC thinking it was all them.
I don't see what's wrong with this. If that blast cone wasn't there, he probably would've died. He's not wrong. Doesn't matter whether it was an intentional pop or not.
: Competition: Can you make a melee champion that doesn't have a dash or movement speed boost that is
: Is it easier to climb at start of new season?
Inn my experience, it's better to play whatever is meta/broken at the beginning of the season, then slowly go over to what you're comfortable with at the end. Usually at preseason, Riot breaks something so you should abuse it while it's there, then they balance everything over the season.
KoKoboto (NA)
: Err. Why do I have to consider that? I'm just talking about why I like Kayle as a support in comparison to other heal / shield types xD
Because compared to other supports, kayle boasts an ally invulnerability a armorshred/ mr. That's probably why she doesn't have a lower cd heal. Looking back at the post, I probably misinterpreted the point of the post. Have a good day{{sticker:slayer-pantheon-thumbs}}
KoKoboto (NA)
: Kayle W has 15s CD at max rank
While that's true, you also have to consider that she isn't a dedicated healer. She has far more other things going for her in her kit. She has the capability of being a hypercarry because of how much damage she can potentially have. She wouldn't be remotely balanced if she could spam her heal. Somebody like Soraka/Janna however, is dedicated towards healing/shielding. That's their thing. While I agree that they need their cds hit on their shields, they have lower cds because that is the job their dedicated too.
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Yes it is, because someone goes vs an unstoppable lucian mid and they try to emulate
So what you're saying is a niche playstyle is working for one tricks and not working for people just trying it out? Sounds fine to me. Why shouldn't lucian be allowed mid especially when it isn't a large number of people that's actually doing well with it?
GripaAviara (EUNE)
: Seriously, that Lucian is not ok
He literally has a nerf on the pbe rn. And I don't think a 45% winrate is enough to call it "abuse".
: Twitch killing faster than assasin? Okay then
: I don't understand why people keep saying assassins are weak and can't kill anything...
: You've got only 2 Crit items, and no damage reduction in your list of 5 items. This is far from a great build, and it's VERY far from being the one and only build that will work for every game. Just check the stats of items build for various marksfolks, and you'll see that this build as a whole never appears as is.
It's also a late game build, when adcs are at their strongest.
: attacks and abilties still connecting after flashing away
If the animation for a basic attack or a targeted ability has started, most of the time it will go through. This is most noticable on adcs with slow projectiles. If the projectile is already in the air, it will hit 99/100 times. The 1 time is because of a glitch. This is how it's meant to work. In a sense, melee attacks work the same way, except instead of the projectile, its the animation. If the animation is already going through, and it would have hit had you not flashed, it will still hit even if you flash/blast cone.
PitchBlack4 (EUNE)
: I want to be an actual player in this game and brawl with the appropriate class. Garen is supposed to be a semy tanky champion that deals good aoe dmg and singles out 1 target to annihilate them. I'm not a tank or a support, Garen is a juggernaut and is supossed to be an imobile high dmg carry. But I can't go in and do that, I have to be either sneeky or go out in 3 sec because the adc does too much dmg to me despite my w and armor. Nasus should be the ultimate juggernaut carry and team fight monster. Yet I am there more for my utility than carry potential. While Yorick is a splitpusher by heart, he is also the best at getting objwctives fast and should be good at out of lane team fights. He can do a lot of dmg with 4 ghouls and ult to any single target, but like every other melee carry he can't survive long enough to acomplish his goal, even with only 1 dmg item. Teemo is really strategic in lane and later so it's a bit harder to explain. But he ahould be anti adc while doing a lot of aoe dmg with shrooms. But with the supporta now he can't do shit. As for assassins, I'd like to be able to assassinate someone. Why is it that my dmg takes 3-4 sec to fully do the rotations. While the adc doesnt have to do any aiming or anyting highly skilful to fight back. All the while having a stat stick applier next to them. Shorten the dealy for assassins and let us do aour job, kill the squishies and run fron tanky champions.
Garne has to wait for an opening. Makes sense. If he goes in 1v5 by himself, he should get clapped. If the adc is able to focus on you and kill you in 3 seconds, you're not building enough defense, or you're not tanking just the adc. Nobody shiuld be able to just waltz right through an entire enemy team and single handedly kill a backliner. At least, by themselves. With how he functions now, Nasus can't have a strong teamfight because he is also a splitpushing monster. You can't have both of those. Imagine tryndamere being able to teamfight as well. Yorick kinda isn't a natural teamfighter because he needs to set up ghouls with his q. You have to use your ult to get any ghouls out in a snap, so he just a natural teamfighter. Maybe if you catch somebody alone, he can do that. But that's not a teamfight. Singler target damage is not a teamfight strength, it's a skirmish/dueling strength. Again, you can't be both a fantastic splitpusher and a good teamfighter. EDIT: If your assassin burst pattern takes 3-4 seconds, you're doing something wrong. And again, shields are there to counter burst. That's the entire purpose of shields. If they didn't do that, they'd be useless. Assassins shouldn't be picked into teams that have 2+ tanks and a shield support. However, they do well against teams that lack a strong frontline/ tanky champions.
PitchBlack4 (EUNE)
: No matter where, I am a glorified support
Well here's what I have to ask. What do you want half of the champions you listed to do? Garen goes in, probably tries to go ham on the villain, and cause general mayhem using his e. That's exactly what he does right now. Nasus, same thing or splitplush. Not sure about Yorick, but as far as I was aware, hes a splitpusher? Teemo...yea i still can't tell what Teemo even does other than be a general nuisance with his traps. And he has a blind. ADCs are going to be his natural target. Blinding a mage or tank is just silly. Assassin play pattern makes sense. Snowball the shit out of the game. And if you're not snowballing the rest of the team, you're not sharing the gold and the enemy team just has to kill you once to take most of the poer out of your team. Assassins are really there to start snowballs and end the game before late game. Then after that, they look for openings to exploit. If the enemy has a bunch of shields, they counter picked you. Ziggs is not more vulnerable than an adc. He has range that he should be using. Although I agree he could probably use some changes. Jax scales into late game and does his engage thing. 5-6 seconds of concentrated fire from the adc is a LOT of damage that isn't going to your team. Isn't that exactly what tanks are supposed to do, to tank damage? Properly applied burst is still very strong. Mages still provide fantastic cc. What I don't get again, is what you want as an alternative. Do you just want assassins going around killing everybody instead of actually thinking about their team and getting them fed as well? Do you just want to instantly gib anybody within 1000 range of you as a mage, while having the cc to lock somebody down who can try to kill you? Do you want to just walk past whatveer frontline the enmy has and just mault on the adc while they can't do anything as a tank?
: We need deatfire grasp back in the game if assasin are allowed to have duskblade .
What if we didn't have duskblade or dfg? Especially since most ap assassins who want something like that take {{item:3146}} instead?
Dr Mercy (NA)
: Vayne isn't getting a Net buff
The double w is a bug? That's good to see.
DaNinad (NA)
: But the changes are literally doing what people want lol, removing crit on q.
They're removing the crit that's true. But a lot people including me don't like the other changes she's recieving. The extra w proc on her q is going to increase her early game trading significantly. And she's already hard enough to kill late game without the heal she has on her ult.
CFood (NA)
: What if Sona's heal had extended range?
Does it need a longer range? The heal on it is already 1000.
Rioter Comments
Sciela (NA)
: Can we nerf crit items?
Can we not blanket nerf every adc because like 2 of them are op?
: Did.. they remove the armor pen on her headshots? Because I remember that being the whole thing about her headshots. They crit and have armor pen.
They removed the bonus arpen portion of her passive when they reworked her.
: > [{quoted}](name=xMisuto,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=gYlOgFMH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-07-20T02:43:15.884+0000) > > I fully agree creat post btw love the calculations! > > But building ninja tabi one every adc i play cuz that's the only slot i have to fill is no fun i want my berserkers! (or GA but i wont get it early-mid cuz you need power spikes). So what do you suggest you do as an adc? Yes get the ninja tabi result in 10 champions building ninja tabi what a great decisionmaking... remove the other boots already who needs them?! My advice for marksmen is the exact same every time... stay near your support. I've never seen a marksman die from a lone burst champion with their support nearby. Supports should be full-time shadows until a nexus is destroyed.
A lot of support mains on these boards would disagree with you, even if it's not wrong. ^
: Does mf really push that fast?
She runs out of mana very quickly if she goes lethality. That's the kicker.
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Chief Mayonnaise

Level 98 (NA)
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