Barma2e (EUNE)
: lower champion prices
I think it's better to post this in Gameplay, not Esports.
Saezio (EUNE)
: Impact had a very solid tournament. You also gotta remember Impact and Jensen are usually low econ because Xmithie is always trying to play through bot for some reason. I think impact has great game awareness and is really good at teamfights and flanks etc. I like him on the neeko/kennen/gnar kinda picks. Ofc he is no god like the toplaner that replaced him in SKT MARIN. But he is a really solid player and I wouldn't say he has bad games often (again given how much his team helps him in the draft and in game)
He had a good tournament, but if you look over his career, he's inconsistent and often not a major playmaker or contributor. He's a pretty decent supportive top laner, much like how Xmithie is a pretty decent supportive jungler. I'm not trying to hate on the guy, but he's a lot like Xmithie in overall skill and play level and neither are on the same level as Jensen or CoreJJ. DLift is one of the most wildly inconsistent ones that could look badass and make wins happen, or just look like chum for the other team but generally on the higher end.
Azca33 (NA)
: WTF Did I Just Watch?
The funny part is how people were mocking SKT when they just blind picked the Sona-Taric bot lane against IG in groups and got wrecked in record time. Then in finals TL doesn't even have that kind of excuse for getting speed deleted.
Kenbo10 (NA)
: The difference is Esports are all over the place with time zones and people in NA shouldn't be expected to wake up at 3 am to watch. I don't think Riot is required to not reveal the winner before people have a chance to watch it. It's more just a polite thing, I agree with the op but don't think it's worth getting mad about. They also could have put like a spoiler over the image that people could have clicked on to see the article behind it.
How about this...the World Cup is being held in Australia. You want to watch the finals without knowing first who wins. You get home from work WHY THE HELL would you FIRST go to FIFA's home page before pulling up a recording of the game?!?
EPIKON (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=50ZExE4z,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-19T14:38:39.828+0000) > > You mean the Season 3 World Championship? > I'll provide context. The biggest threat in that finals series was Royal's star ADC, Uzi. Bengi, Piglet, and PoohManDu deserve the most credit for blunting that threat. > The undeniable star of SKT was Faker. > At that time there were 3 god tier top lane champs, Shen, Renekton, and Jax. Each game in finals Shen and Renekton were banned and SKT prioritized getting Jax for Impact. > He was given the best matchup possible and the game flowed first through Bot and Mid. He was along for the ride. > > Does he have a Championship? Yep. They didn't get it because of him and ever since he left SKT to chase getting a payday because of that champion status he's never proven himself as great. Ever since Impact left SKT T1 K, SKT had one complete top laner and that was SKT T1 S's MaRin who struggled just about all his career except one year he's won World Championship with SKT T1. Impact's plays aren't flashy but he gets shit done. He holds it down for other lanes to get going by playing against 1v2 because SKT always prioritized and always will focus on winning bottom lane first. Him and Looper from Samsung White were similar type of players and I loved them for it. If you are looking for a top lane carry player like TheShy, you aren't going to see that from Impact and he's said it in numerous interviews recently that TheShy is the best top laner he's faced in his career. However, it was also Impact that told me 5-6 years ago he couldn't wait to see TheShy in the LCK pro scene because he'll be the Faker of the top lane. Except Impact was wrong because TheShy chased money and joined LPL's WE as a streamer. And no, Impact did not chase money to NA, if he was chasing money, he would have gone to LPL. First, the writing was on the wall for Impact that he'd be pushed out of starting rotation by SKT T1 S's MaRin when LCK forced organizations to disband its sister teams. SKT is forever Impact's team, he will never play for another LCK team. That's him. Secondly, he's asked me in numerous occasions what it's like to be in the states and has said he knows gamer's career is short so his goal is to learn English while playing in NA and prepare for his life after his gaming career is finished. So why NA over EU? It was simple, his favorite food at the time was hamburgers so NA it was. He joyed over having In-N-Out burgers for over a week when he first got here. And yes, Impact along with Bengi, Faker, Piglet, and Poohmandu were all the reason SKT T1 S won their first World Championship. Obviously you and I look at different traits and criteria as to what makes a top laner great. Just looking at all the top laners SKT's had over the years, only Impact and Duke are what Kkoma would consider prototypical SKT top laner, MaRin was freakish in his only year with SKT T1 that he was able to carry from top lane and thus didn't need him to play the role Kkoma prefers in his top laners. Huni failed miserably at what he wished to play was MaRin's role as a T1 and now we are seeing a carry top Khan struggle to play SKT T1's preferred top lane role. Khan may be better off playing carry top role even if he fails like Huni did. While it'll be a whole another story, Kkoma needs to let his players play the role they are good at or sign players that fits the role they want them to play in. Back to Khan, is he a great top laner? He was when he played with Peanut, BDD, PraY and Gorilla at Kingzone because he played his role as a roaming top carry perfectly. Same can be said about Peanut as a jungler because we know he can be the best carry jungler out there but he was forced to play the role of map pressuring jungler with SKT and now with GenG. Is Peanut not a great jungler because he can't play macro managing style better than his free roaming carry jungle style?
A huge wall of text that doesn't address the premise. OP called Xmithie the weakest link of TL. I asserted Impact is no better than Xmithie because he is inconsistent and you can never be sure if we'll see top level Impact or bottom shelf Impact. You comment on him having a Championship. I laid out why he wasn't a major factor in that championship to brag about it. What do Marin, Khan, or absurd stories about burgers and LPL have anything to do with it?
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: Also l have a question for you, how many pro players are good at other games? It could be mobas or other genres.
Someone already gave you an example in Scarra. I'm not going to bother digging deeper and giving you more examples for you to keep ignoring simply because you don't want to accept talent is reality.
: EU > NA
Today they can hoist the trophy and claim bragging rights for now. Next up is Rift Rivals.
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: All of those could be learned over time If 15-30/40 young person decided to go full on into 1 game. Spending all of there time in 1 game. They would in 90% of the cases go pro.
Then why is new talent in the NA pro scene from the NA player base so rare? It's not just practice, talent is key. You're simply in blind denial, have no evidence to prove your case, and are stubborn as a mule.
: In no world can TL beat IG in a BO5! It was rigged!
I'm ok with suspecting and assuming Samsung Blue threw their match against Samsung White back at Season 4 Worlds semifinals. Both under same ownership and one made utterly nonsensical drafts and plays that ultimately led to a loss. This is a new level of lunacy. LoL makes tons of money off skin and champ sales as well as sponsorship deals and advertising across a number of regions. There have been no major reports of profit failings, so to assume this in a vacuum is just a tinfoil cap conspiracy.
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: And as l said those skills are result of practice.
Not all of them. Some of it is hand-eye reflexes simply being better. That's not practice. Some of it is being able to crunch numbers in a couple seconds, not just training. Another talent is being able to take time spent playing and turn it into constant improvement to be one of the elite. Not everyone can do that. You're simply in denial that it's more than just practice.
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: Logic sure. By your words l would assume that you believe that pros have some sort of talent or ability that makes them pros. If so tell me what abilities do they have?
Yes, I laid that out in my first post.
: Would IG have beaten G2 today?
Maybe, maybe not. MMA has a saying "styles make fights" and perhaps the different skills of IG could have beaten G2, but they didn't earn their way to the finals so we won't know.
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: That is such a common argument. 'You hate pros because you are bad' l consider myself decent in lol. l have good games and l have bad games. l don't hate pros but l hate the fact that people ignore the fact how they became what they are.
I didn't say you were bad, I'm making the logical assumption you're hating attention pros get out of jealousy. Nobody ignores they have played countless hours to get where they are, but only haters like you will act like all those hours they spend is the ONLY reason they are good, as if anyone could do it when clearly that's not the case.
: Korean reaction to SKT losing to G2
I'm not necessarily blaming Khan for SKT losing the series, but he has been a weak link. Part of it is the meta, part of it is him. He did ok on Kennen, but it was painful to see him flailing ineffectively as Viktor and Hecarim. Not sure if he was told to take those champs or he wanted them, but he was not pulling his weight. A couple games Teddy was great, a couple games Clid was awesome, a couple games Faker was doing Faker things. Khan and Mata just seemed along for the ride most of the time, but part of Teddy's success is due to Mata's support work. Seeing Khan miss skillshots or have to flee immediately after a bad flank or engage shows a problem. For Wunder to pull out a pocket pick and have big success again when Khans pocket picks sucked is bad. I do think Faker taking LB into the comp G2 showed at that point for game 5 was stupid and basically throwing, but I won't fault him 90% of the series blame when Khan sucked for three games.
DoctorJHIN4 (EUNE)
: l will assure you. Every skill in gaming esport is learned through practice aka playing way too much. People with better reflexes could have slight advantage but that's nothing people can't get over time. They are best people playing game sure but thing that annoys me are bunch of people who call pro players 'talented' because really 'telent' does not exist. Everything is learned over time. All esport players started as just kids playing game for way too much time.
You need practice, yes. What makes pros so good is getting the most out of that practice and training their skills the best and that is talent. You just seem jealous you can't make it higher in ranks so you hate on the pros.
EPIKON (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=50ZExE4z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-18T17:39:50.698+0000) > > Impact is no better than Xmithie. He has great games, decent games, and bad games in equal measure. > > I have no beef with Jensen's skill level, more so with how he typically hasn't leveraged leads into macro advantages. He also never should have been permitted back into the pro scene after his ban either. Impact has a ring. https://cdn.guff.com/site_2/media/1000/155/items/65ed7002fb38584e2d75c113.jpg
You mean the Season 3 World Championship? I'll provide context. The biggest threat in that finals series was Royal's star ADC, Uzi. Bengi, Piglet, and PoohManDu deserve the most credit for blunting that threat. The undeniable star of SKT was Faker. At that time there were 3 god tier top lane champs, Shen, Renekton, and Jax. Each game in finals Shen and Renekton were banned and SKT prioritized getting Jax for Impact. He was given the best matchup possible and the game flowed first through Bot and Mid. He was along for the ride. Does he have a Championship? Yep. They didn't get it because of him and ever since he left SKT to chase getting a payday because of that champion status he's never proven himself as great.
BereInBurta (EUNE)
: new tournament suggestion
Maybe for a "fun" tournament that doesn't count in a split or for a major trophy. Like have this for All Star weekend. It would just be bad for something like MSI or Worlds.
Orthyrus (NA)
: This meta sucks to watch
Someone always thinks the current pro meta sucks, no matter what it is.
: faker would have carried if he took ignite or cleanse on lb
Nope. A single Cleanse or Ignite wouldn't do anywhere near enough against the burst Rek'sai, Syndra, and Pyke had in team fights. All of SKT's CC in their comp also takes a couple seconds to trigger. They gave up burst and CC advantages, had WAY too squishy of a comp, and had no good tools to recover from disadvantageous fights. As soon as the draft ended and G2 got a lead, it was over. I don't think any pro can solo carry a team from behind in the current meta. I could be wrong, but I doubt I am.
MakJuice (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=32RO1j5H,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-18T16:59:57.044+0000) > > If you really wanted to see the VOD or highlights without spoilers, go do that first on YouTube before logging into LoL. God forbid the casuals see the results. who are the casuals? Just curious I am starting to see this posted more often and it seems toxic... Last I checked, we are all casuals watching a sport. Are you saying if you couldn't stay up from 1am to 4am u are a casual? That doesn't make much sense at all. Some people do have lives, and enjoy to watch their tv and sports between normal hours of say 6am - 10pm? Seems just dumb to divide a fan-base by calling people "casuals" when the sport itself doesn't even have a big enough fan base to get on tv regularly yet.
It's simple. Casual fans are the ones who don't make any effort to avoid the results of LoL Esports and cry a river about it on the boards but never post here otherwise until the semifinals of MSI or Worlds. Dedicated fans will go to a VoD or Highlight compilation before they log in to play a game of LoL or an Esports website that day. If they see the results before seeing the game, they won't care and go watch to see how it happened anyway.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=50ZExE4z,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-18T17:39:50.698+0000) > > Impact is no better than Xmithie. He has great games, decent games, and bad games in equal measure. > > I have no beef with Jensen's skill level, more so with how he typically hasn't leveraged leads into macro advantages. He also never should have been permitted back into the pro scene after his ban either. ???
: What is this hate I see against Jensen on boards and subreddit?
Impact is no better than Xmithie. He has great games, decent games, and bad games in equal measure. I have no beef with Jensen's skill level, more so with how he typically hasn't leveraged leads into macro advantages. He also never should have been permitted back into the pro scene after his ban either.
: Balanced for Pro Play...?
This clown didn't even name the right players who took the Sona-Taric combo to bot lane. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
Rioter Comments
gubigubi (NA)
: Hey Riot maybe fix the lolesports website so it doesn't intentionally have spoilers
If you really wanted to see the VOD or highlights without spoilers, go do that first on YouTube before logging into LoL. God forbid the casuals see the results.
: "For the Double, for the Ace, for the Baron and the Base!"
I just can't believe how stupid the SKT draft was for Game 5. Clid has been a monster on RekSai, but they take J4 instead. Khan on Kennen, a soft champ yet again when he kept getting caught all series. And Faker apparently tilted and chose LB into an enemy comp with three hard burst champs you can't just juke out. That just hurt to see. Congrats to G2, didn't think they'd do it.
: Inb4 G2 3-0 skt, I'll eat my straw hat if there's G2 v TL finals.
. . . Well, time to chow down on straw.
: Its been 3 years...
"Working as intended."
: Yo Jack! Look at Jensen Now!
I can't help but laugh hysterically as people champion Jensen and defend him as some terribly wronged player.... The dude was banned and shouldn't even have been allowed back into pro LoL. He not only would feed, afk, and be toxic to other players, he hacked. He would DDOS and drop hack games. He would backtrace people's IP addresses through the client, including Riot employees who were handling his TOS violations. He would threaten them with this information. And people here crying about how he was benched for being a tool? As has been repeatedly stated, it straightened him and Sneaky out, and it was when a bunch of other carries were struggling with the meta and other distractions, stars getting benched in EU and Korea too. To badmouth two guys who have led one of the most successful LoL organizations over benching one guy and not fighting to keep him? GTFO and get some real world experience. This guy is lucky Riot ever let him back to begin with.
: Whoa let's not get too carried away...
: It's fine that a lot didn't believe. Hell I was on the 5-games to IG side of the coin. Where I don't like to dig into a lot is past performance as a collective region. Fan dig into that and somehow forget CLG the same way Spawn did. That makes it equate to the failure of one team being the failure of every team. Flip the coin though and you see IG play scrappy; the same way they have since their 18-1 splits last year. I don't even say they really underperformed. They just got beat. The same things they did in Group stage and that's really it. Win or lose on the final - and I really hope it's NA vs EU cause I wanna see these boards explode - I'm hoping fans are content with this.
My posts tend to generalize NA flops in the past, but it was also a matter of who. Frankly I've never thought Impact was an amazing great. He got a Worlds trophy when SKT prioritized getting him the best top pick after bans. He's been wildly inconsistent, having great streaks at the end of a split or groups to then go back to mediocrity. Xmithie I loved on IMT when tank junglers were meta. He has good macro and decent skills, but has never been a great aggressive junglers when it's not a tank meta. Jensen may be best on team, but I remember so many times he wouldnt apply pressure outside his lane when he could. Doublelift...well, he nearly always gets too tilted at international levels and gets caught too much. I had reason to believe they wouldn't break their habits and past. I was wrong. I just doubt G2 beats SKT in 5. I seriously think SKT more than anyone was keeping their hand hidden in groups and now we'll see their true strength. We'll just see.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=UMZqvBKa,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T05:47:50.725+0000) > > Of course nothing is set in stone for the international landscape, and if anything I hope to see smaller regions coming up to challenge the mid-tier regions which would then pressure them even more to improve. Ideally it would be awesome for conversations about who is best to be more about how teams from various regions are actual threats in a given year, rather than chatter revolving around which overall region is best, rising, or falling. > > I'm ok with a tank meta coming back. Sort of. I've loved being the tank in WoW and in LoL and enjoy seeing guys make plays that protect squishies but I would HATE for a meta to solidify around either ChoGath scaling enough to one-shot anyone or Maokai just being an unstoppable regenerator. Can Volibear get a rework to make him viable already? Well if tank meta comes back, we know impact can play tanks. That said, wet noodle fights in the top lane were not my cup of tee as far as watching.
Lol, Impact will be that guy dusting off Singed. I don't mind if one lane ends up semi stagnant early. Then again, maybe we'll see teams doing rotations and roams to pressure differently to starve enemy tanks. Who knows? I just hated shit like how if a team managed to get Cho after 30minutes he can just run up and 1-shot an ADC or mid.
: It was easy to predict this TL win. Not sure what you were thinking XD
I was thinking Xmithie has never been a great jungler outside a tank meta, and Jensen and Doublelift have always choked. And no, this wasn't easy to predict a 4-6 team taking down the 9-1 defending World Champs.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=UMZqvBKa,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-15T21:25:52.056+0000) > > I'll offer my prediction. > Invictus Gaming kick TL in the kneecaps Game 1. IG then kicks them in the gut while they're down game 2. They get a little cocky and in Game 3 TL hits them with a punch they don't see coming. Then in Game 4 IG is refocused and finish it. Well you got 3-1 right. So there's that. :)
Lol, right? I even predicted the flow of the match, but didn't expect Liquid would step up like they did. Hats off to Xmithie, Jensen, and Doublelift for not folding this time.
: I think Korea is a bottom of the barrel region now. Id say NA, EU, and China are the top 3... in that order. We give Korea a pass for continually being trash for a year and a half because it's Korea. China has always been full of a bunch of chokers. Never able to perform when it matters the most. If Fnatic didn't fluke their way into the finals last year, IG would have choked there too.
Hmmm.....not sure if serious or sarcastic.
: I'll offer my prediction. Invictus Gaming kick TL in the kneecaps Game 1. IG then kicks them in the gut while they're down game 2. They get a little cocky and in Game 3 TL hits them with a punch they don't see coming. Then in Game 4 IG is refocused and finish it.
Well hot damn. I had it backwards and TL take IG out the way I expected the series to go against them. NA fans can get hyped!
: Riot's development arm and the LCS are essentially two different entities. Racism, anti semitism, threats. homophobia. And if it's bad enough to get Rick Fox, who absolutely loves lol to leave the organization, it's pretty darn bad. He's since said he'll return on the condition that the person that did it is gone. As far as the LCS leaving the organization to handle it itself, well once Echo Fox aired its dirty laundry in public, it became obvious they couldn't handle it themselves. Anyway good riddance to bad rubbish I hope. There is no place for that nonsense.
Yes, Riot's development segment is certainly separate from the LCS segment. That said, it is under the same company and stinks to see some double standards. I have no trust in Rick Fox. It's oddly convenient for him that he sends an email about his intent to sell his shares and leave for that email to then anonymously get leaked, afterward saying he'd return if Raizada is ousted following Riot's threat? It reeks of a coward unable and unwilling to take steps himself to address an issue and set it up for an outside source to do the dirty work. He refuses to give detail to alleged threats made while Raizada denies the claims. Also, if even half the claims in an article about Raizada's past business and personal behavior leading to multiple lawsuits are true, why did first Echo Fox agree to sell shares to him, and why did Riot approve the overall Echo Fox bid when there were legal risks? (I'm guessing because they're just as dishonest and Rick Fox isn't as morally upright as he'd lead you to believe) After more reading, they really should buy out his shares or force him out, assuming everything about his past and current claims are true. They shouldn't have even opened the door for him in the first place. What really bothers me is in his interview Fox expressing his opinion that racist speech should be illegal. Nope, go back to Canada if you think that. I don't want any speech short of calls to violence to be legally banned.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=BJW5RWpj,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-15T06:14:56.477+0000) > > I'm not sure I follow. > The desire to be the best and therefore real the best rewards is why they play and teams try to sign the best players they can. > Are you implying that pros streaming is a problem? Or do you think they don't listen to coaches? > I'm also confused about the claim of super teams. It's not like Impact or Xmithie are top shelf players? Most of the best teams over the years have had a couple top stars and also had a weak link or two. I don't think NA has ever seen a super team. I agree, you didn't follow at all.
Then how about asserting your points with clear examples rather than use nebulous phrases? When did LCS become only about money? When was there ever a LCS super team? When was the play supposedly better?
: LPL has always been the #2 best region in the past but that doesn't mean it's set in stone. I just think the LPL is benefiting from this chaotic, fight constantly mentality/meta. **Supposedly** a tank meta should be apart of the meta to make it 50/50 before Worlds.....so during Summer Split or Playoffs not sure but I'll be watching the moment that meta hits to see what teams fall of greatly from such. IF this meta stays all the up to Worlds - I see IG still being #1 and teams such as Team Liquid, G2 Esports, Origen early game teams being higher up in their standings mainly because of the meta and nothing more. Teams like SKT, Flash Wolves, CLG and even 100 Thieves will most likely stay bad because either their mentality isn't so good in a faster paced meta/or the players tend to play slower. SKT -As long as Clid stays 1-2 steps ahead in his jungle path SKT will be fine. Not sold on Teddy as I honestly just see a better version of Doublelift but with Lift's flaws more noticeable. G2 Esports vs SKT - In my mind will actually be the real MSI Finals.
Of course nothing is set in stone for the international landscape, and if anything I hope to see smaller regions coming up to challenge the mid-tier regions which would then pressure them even more to improve. Ideally it would be awesome for conversations about who is best to be more about how teams from various regions are actual threats in a given year, rather than chatter revolving around which overall region is best, rising, or falling. I'm ok with a tank meta coming back. Sort of. I've loved being the tank in WoW and in LoL and enjoy seeing guys make plays that protect squishies but I would HATE for a meta to solidify around either ChoGath scaling enough to one-shot anyone or Maokai just being an unstoppable regenerator. Can Volibear get a rework to make him viable already?
: I don't think TL will go down like a B$tch or maybe TL will even win against IG, who knows. I do know a region that had dominated for years(Korea) is suddenly fallen off the face of the earth and China is now the god-tier region. What did we say back 3-4 years ago? China is the aggressive fight 24/7 region and Korea is the think, take it slow region, right? Guess who the meta favors? Oh, down by 10 kills 15 mins into the game.......hmm, don't worry about objectives and such but just fight some more in hopes you'll land year long cc, stun, root etc and get 4-5 kills. Jensen needs to pay attention in the first 5-10 mins because he's constantly dying to first bloods. I knew Jensen was a horrible first blood victim and all but damn. And it's not like he's getting camped honestly, he'll be pushed up literally 2 mins and get killed. Xmithie must of had an Alien probe or something because he has looked **LOST** this tournament. Doublelift/CoreJJ - I don't understand how you(Doublelift) for years can dominate the NA LCS in lane.....but the same people who you s$it on in lane does better than you in lane(Sneaky, Wildturtle, Codysun) on the International stage is beyond me. It has to be nerves and you can't tell me it's not because I've watched every Travis/Sjokz interview with Doublelift and he has that hesitation, dry throat voice in which only means he's nervous. It's like when you first talked to a girl back in high school. Either way, I wanna say the series won't be a sweep but Team Liquid actually has a chance. The series won't go 5 games in my opinion as it's either going to be IG wins 3-1 or TL wins 3-1
I'm not completely sold on Korea being passed by China. SKT was playing very conservative, perhaps to mostly keep their strategies in their pocket and not for public eyes. The did deliver a solid win over IG, though IG may have been on cruise control because they didn't need to win their 10th group game with a 9-0 record. Waiting to see how MSI plays out and then World's later this year.
: I agree with you about " He's a rat for making the issue public and kicking off the external forces rather than being a man and helping settle things between his business partners, which by all reports they have started trying to smooth out already!" -Well, maybe not the rat part but for the most part. There's a reason why the public wants to know about the relationship between the likes of say, Tom Brady and Bill Belichick mainly due because neither of the two make such public, even when we know there's a rift between the two. They instead settle their issues between them and only them. #need 2 know basis " Riot has no right to involve itself directly in an argument between shareholders of the SAME TEAM" - Very similar to teammates on professional teams when they fight the refs don't "T" them up or anything of the sort. I'm split on such topics because we're often stated "Freedom of speech" and I'm not saying being racist, sexist, bigot etc is good but.......damn, you can't say anything negative, banter, etc on social media or in the workplace before you get branded. Overall, these such reasons are why I think league will be coming to an end within the next year.
Well, I say rat because another word that came to mind was far more impolite. I have no respect for a person who is running away from something he founded and branded with his name rather than step up and find a solution. It's especially worse when you make it public. That's not acceptable in my book. I don't think what the dude said was ok, and there should be repercussions. It would be fair to force him to sell some shares and take a minority role and have less access to argue with other shareholder or leaders going forward. He's free to speak how he wants, doesn't mean he's free from consequences. I just can't understand how Riot thinks the DEFCON 1 response is fitting.
: Whoa, wtf?
New thoughts... Rick Fox stated he was looking to sell his shares to exit from the organization. Riot is pushing to force another shareholder out from Echo Fox. I don't know how many shares the two hold, but maybe suddenly there is a new avenue for Immortals to buy control and absorb Echo Fox rather than Optic. Also wondering if maybe we will see another Esports organization swoop in and absorb EF and we'll have a new or revived brand on the rift?
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XIAOIipF,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T05:51:47.111+0000) > > I think you're missing my points. > > First, no, garbage work environment at Riot doesn't excuse nasty exchanges between shareholders at a different organization. > That does make it shitty and hypocritical that Riot demands "action be taken or endanger your LCS status" when Riot themselves did little to nothing in aftermath of multiple reports of their bad environment. > > Secondly, why should Riot involve themselves? It wasn't between two organizations, it was internal. Using examples of MonteCristo or Donald Sterling (which in each case were shady and overstepping appropriate responses) doesn't justify another massive overstep. > > Third if Riot wanted a real solution or problem solving, they would bring those shareholders and leadership in Riot's LCS structure together to find a resolution, not dangle an ominous threat that could linger over innocent bystanders like the Echo Fox players and coaches. First: This isn't about _"Oh, Riot's hypocritical"_ or what they've done within themselves. This is about the LCS organizer and owner making sure the financial partners they have agreements with is not out there misrepresenting the values of the business they own. Should they also improve themselves? Yeah, but that's a different issue. Stop bringing _"reports of their bad environment"_ because that's irrelevant to this case. They're both separate and I don't understand why you keep bringing it up. Second: Because Riot are the organizers and owners of the business called "League of Legends Championship Series" and EchoFox is a party financially and morally attached to the brand. This isn't a "massive overstep". It's an investor that represents EchoFox and by extension the LCS engaging in reproachable conduct. I have no idea why you're still trying to make it about _"Oh but Riot has also done shit stuff"_ and then use that as an excuse. Third: The only person _"endangering innocent bystanders"_ was the man who engaged in racist behavior, knowing full well he's a representative of his investment, the company he stands for and the League his team plays in. Riot has rules in place for their business partners. If the partners break such rules, Riot has the full right to demand something to right that wrong, and you need to stop pretending like this is Riot _"Going too far"_ because frankly it's an absurd concept.
The fact Riot has had a festering culture of sexist and unequal treatment and did almost nothing to rectify that, but after one report comes out demand some action be taken or possibly lose their franchise spot? How is the lack of equal behavior not a moral problem? Why should Riot be able to demand that shareholder's removal when they wouldn't dump execs themselves? You may not agree, but it is a massive overstep by Riot. Echo Fox isn't NALCS and NALCS isn't Echo Fox. Since they field a LoL team that means Riot can say when they must force out an investor? Nevermind that there are other gamers under EF, Riot has that right? They really don't. And no, just no. Riot is threatening the financial stability of players, coaches, and probably a few others who would be out of a job if Riot slashes Echo Fox suddenly from LCS. Those are innocent bystanders now with their head on the block solely because Riot wants to go nuclear at the start. This really shows that Riot doesn't understand the concept of franchises and want far too much control over things they shouldn't decide.
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=XIAOIipF,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-16T02:02:54.913+0000) > > In the case of both Renegades and Sterling, there are major issues. > > Riot refused to give any evidence of wrongdoing by MonteCristo and others. CLG was busted for poaching, they got suspensions. Renegades and Team Dragon Knights were accused of misleading trades and were banned. (MonteCristo was banned for additional reasons which were also not proven) > > Even some of Donald Sterling's critics felt the NBA had gone too far. They not only banned him, they then went after him and his wife who was a co-owner pushing them to sell their team. That's insane to punish him THAT far as well as his innocent co-owner. > > Riot has no right to involve itself directly in an argument between shareholders of the SAME TEAM. And frankly, screw Rick Fox. He's a rat for making the issue public and kicking off the external forces rather than being a man and helping settle things between his business partners, which by all reports they have started trying to smooth out already! > > The power trips this company goes on are insane and they are way out of line in this case. When did I ask for Riot to go after this person's family? All I said was that Riot is being extremely generous with the time given to EchoFox. Riot aren't white angels or anything even close resembling that, but this person deserves investigating, and **if proof is found**, consequences should follow. If you wanna go ahead and attempt to excuse racism or hope the person goes unpunished based on some bullshit reason like _"Others do it in Riot so he should be able to get away with it"_ , then good luck with that. The need for Riot to improve their working conditions and fix their internal bullshit has nothing to do with this investor getting away with his attitude within a company that represents the LCS. One thing doesn't excuse the other, and I don't know why you think it should be different.
I think you're missing my points. First, no, garbage work environment at Riot doesn't excuse nasty exchanges between shareholders at a different organization. That does make it shitty and hypocritical that Riot demands "action be taken or endanger your LCS status" when Riot themselves did little to nothing in aftermath of multiple reports of their bad environment. Secondly, why should Riot involve themselves? It wasn't between two organizations, it was internal. Using examples of MonteCristo or Donald Sterling (which in each case were shady and overstepping appropriate responses) doesn't justify another massive overstep. Third if Riot wanted a real solution or problem solving, they would bring those shareholders and leadership in Riot's LCS structure together to find a resolution, not dangle an ominous threat that could linger over innocent bystanders like the Echo Fox players and coaches.
: Riot are actually being incredibly lenient with EchoFox. MonteCristo was given 10 days to get his shit straight and then was forced to sell his LCS spot when the Renegades thing happened. NBA owner Donald Sterling had a racist outburst in 2015 and was eventually forced to sell his team: the Clippers. Riot are giving EF 60 days to get rid of a single person. Rick Fox has been an amazing positive presence to have in the LCS. I'm happy action is being taken and I hope Rick stays.
In the case of both Renegades and Sterling, there are major issues. Riot refused to give any evidence of wrongdoing by MonteCristo and others. CLG was busted for poaching, they got suspensions. Renegades and Team Dragon Knights were accused of misleading trades and were banned. (MonteCristo was banned for additional reasons which were also not proven) Even some of Donald Sterling's critics felt the NBA had gone too far. They not only banned him, they then went after him and his wife who was a co-owner pushing them to sell their team. That's insane to punish him THAT far as well as his innocent co-owner. Riot has no right to involve itself directly in an argument between shareholders of the SAME TEAM. And frankly, screw Rick Fox. He's a rat for making the issue public and kicking off the external forces rather than being a man and helping settle things between his business partners, which by all reports they have started trying to smooth out already! The power trips this company goes on are insane and they are way out of line in this case.
MakJuice (NA)
: Team Liquid Wins 3-2 Against invictus Gaming 5/15/19
I'll offer my prediction. Invictus Gaming kick TL in the kneecaps Game 1. IG then kicks them in the gut while they're down game 2. They get a little cocky and in Game 3 TL hits them with a punch they don't see coming. Then in Game 4 IG is refocused and finish it.
: At this point I would say it's smart for Riot to cover their own asses pre-emptively. If they did nothing, and this came out a month down the road, you know the lynch mobs would be up in arms. It's sort of a catch 22, and I'd guess they're doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.
I don't blame Riot for being involved on an advisory level, but the implication that if EF doesn't do something it may jeopardize their franchise standing in LCS is crazy for an internal matter. They're talking about potentially slashing one of their ten handpicked franchises. I'd think fines and warnings are far more appropriate and the immensity of the threat is the problem with Riot getting in the mix. If it had been a founding shareholder for Echo Fox directing slurs and threats (I didn't see threats quoted in article) at an owner or shareholder for Clutch Gaming (for example) then I'd understand and be behind Riot laying down some law for spreading discord between teams.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=ChompyWulf,realm=NA,application-id=9hBQwnEU,discussion-id=BJW5RWpj,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-14T22:06:10.970+0000) > > Well they did scrape out of Groups at MSI, but gonna bet they get 3-0ed by IG. > > And to be fair to the players, I doubt they have any say about who their coaches are. > > I'd wonder if maybe they banned Olaf to make sure he wasn't taken top lane? Still doesn't make much sense. It's just idiotic that ever since these teams became about nothing more than money the quality of their play, synergy, and decision making on all levels has tanked, despite forging super teams
I'm not sure I follow. The desire to be the best and therefore real the best rewards is why they play and teams try to sign the best players they can. Are you implying that pros streaming is a problem? Or do you think they don't listen to coaches? I'm also confused about the claim of super teams. It's not like Impact or Xmithie are top shelf players? Most of the best teams over the years have had a couple top stars and also had a weak link or two. I don't think NA has ever seen a super team.
: MSI Predictions
Semifinals are coming, here's my predictions. IG maul TL 3-0. With ad dominant as IG has been and pedestrian as TL was, I don't think they put up much of a fight. SKT win 3-1 over G2. Yes, I know G2 beat SKT each time in groups, but after SKT ended groups with a beatdown of IG, I think we can say they used Groups to warm up before getting super serious. If G2 have another odd strategy to use like the Pyke top game up their sleeve, I could see a five game series happening and maybe then G2 winning.
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ChompyWulf

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