: So the best times to roam are when your adc is dead/not in lane, your adc has a safe freeze of the wave or anytime you're leaving the fountain
> [{quoted}](name=Baker I,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rjE4Aela,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-01-09T20:47:40.176+0000) > > So the best times to roam are when your adc is dead/not in lane, your adc has a safe freeze of the wave or anytime you're leaving the fountain I mean, it really depends. Not every roam is worth your time. Sometimes just heading back to lane and last hitting or soaking XP is your most optimal choice. You really want to just ensure you are doing the most beneficial thing you can at any given moment based on your ADC, jungle, and mid players' positions as well as objective timers. It also heavily depends on which hero you are playing. If you have hard cc and decent damage, roaming mid is a great option. If you are an enchanter, possibly helping your jungler take jungle camps faster is a good option.
: > [{quoted}](name=Kythers,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rjE4Aela,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-01-09T19:27:46.445+0000) > > if your adc goes back and you don't have to, that is by far the best time to roam > > running mid immediately after a death might catch them off guard as well. You can also pink ward a lane bush, and roam while they think you are camping in it what if adc backs and enemy is pushing a wave under tower?
> [{quoted}](name=hallajuice,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rjE4Aela,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-01-09T19:29:10.658+0000) > > what if adc backs and enemy is pushing a wave under tower? If you've already shown the enemy you are bot side, I would stay under tower and farm last hits. Once the wave has pushed, then you can look to roam if your adc is not close to being back. Also, if your ADC can play safe and you notice mid is falling behind, I would roam to try and help them out with that sweet shut down gold.
: Why couldn't he have been friends with Sona or something? I just REALLY want to know what's going on with Sona now that Riot's gone ham on Demacia's contempt for magic. She's been ignored in every single modern Demacia-related lore update or release.
> [{quoted}](name=Lunaranul,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=QB5mtoGK,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-01-08T16:07:37.702+0000) > > Why couldn't he have been friends with Sona or something? > > I just REALLY want to know what's going on with Sona now that Riot's gone ham on Demacia's contempt for magic. She's been ignored in every single modern Demacia-related lore update or release. When it comes to sona, there's just really not much to say.
Jikker (NA)
: Quick Remedies for a Cold?
Starbucks sells something called a "medicine ball" which is 1/2 steamed lemonade + 1/2 hot water + #JadeCitrusMint green tea + #PeachTranquility herbal tea + honey. I order it every day whenever my sinuses or throat are feeling cruddy. It soothes your throat and although it probably won't instantly cure your cold, it can make dealing with it more manageable. Taking hot baths to help clear sinuses would help as well.
: I really wish more people inderstood the whole champ select process... A no ban can be just as strategic as banning someone and a preference is *not* a pick. The game doesn't revolve around you, get over yourself.
> [{quoted}](name=brucey42085,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=w0Z0rBoW,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-01-04T15:07:00.515+0000) > > I really wish more people inderstood the whole champ select process... A no ban can be just as strategic as banning someone and a preference is *not* a pick. The game doesn't revolve around you, get over yourself. There's literally no strategy behind not using your ban. The game doesn't revolve around you either. It's a team game. Not banning cancer champs fucks over everybody unless your strategy is to play one of them. The higher ban rate champs are highly contested and have hard carry potential that many people do not want to play against. Think about your teammates as well when you decide to use that shitty "strategy".
Copic (NA)
: Real annoying seeing my teammates ban nothing.
Had a guy do this the other day. Proceeded to go 0/7/0 in lane against an Akali who became unkillable. I distinctly remember him not banning anything and called him out on it. His reasoning was that he "never bans anyone". Cool. So you're okay with losing when the enemy team picks one of the handful of broken champions in this meta. Why bother playing ranked if you're not tryharding?
: Supports don't solo carry games. They could always carry games, but it historically wasn't by being the source of the damage and combat power. This is why I stopped playing support all together, because riot seemed intent to turn it into top lane with a partner rather than the actual support fantasy. As they moved power away from information and macro play more towards picking and micro play.
> [{quoted}](name=deadlychuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AKb4FNyE,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2018-12-27T20:24:39.699+0000) > > Supports don't solo carry games. They could always carry games, but it historically wasn't by being the source of the damage and combat power. > > This is why I stopped playing support all together, because riot seemed intent to turn it into top lane with a partner rather than the actual support fantasy. As they moved power away from information and macro play more towards picking and micro play. Support is someone that can assist their lane partner in some way, shape, or form. The game has evolved so much since its inception that roles and playstyles are more varied than they used to be. I personally don't think that's a bad thing. There are tank supports, enchanters, mage supports, and now {{champion:555}} . If you play your champion well, their strengths should multiply. Tanks get tankier, enchanters grant more utility, and mages pump out more damage. There is a trade off for you pick and mage support is not always going to be the best option. The "support fantasy" can change and evolve. Just because it's not in line with the historical MMO style healing and buffing does not make it less valid.
: Champions such as Velkoz & Xerath should NEVER be "supports"
There's nothing to fix... These mages are immobile and will always be extremely weak to assassins. Their CC and poke will always be useful in the support role even if they are viable mid. Runes reforged is what has made them more frustrating to play against. Also, shouldn't supports have an option to solo carry a game? If you're playing with a braindead adc, at least you can have an impact on the game if you get fed.
: Why are we complaining about Akali and the like, when this exists?
It sucks that she was considered a bad pick for so long and is only now seen as meta so people are comparing her to Akali levels of op... * She's completely immobile and one of the slowest champions in the game. * Any assassin {{champion:84}} {{champion:105}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:238}} can delete her from the game. * Mobile ADCs {{champion:81}} {{champion:18}} deny her early kills and can completely starve her laning phase. * {{champion:63}} fills the same role as Zyra. * {{champion:53}} dunks on her * Her burst potential drops significantly mid-late game unless she has snowballed. * She is oppressive in lane, but that's how she has always been. * Any bot lane comp that can deny her burst combo will outscale her. * Her damage is only now coming to par with the amount she did pre-rework. She's still an immobile glass cannon. She is just more dangerous than she has been since her rework thanks to QoL changes, runes reforged, and her core items being buffed.
wolf jade (EUNE)
: Someone just told me in game
that's just funny tbh
: Shady game companies, you know what good job Riot
It's worth note that Activision is what is fucking up Blizzard.
Tdlob (NA)
: @RiotRepertoir you did this statement almost 2 months ago ._.
I honestly think she needs * a new passive * her old Q shape * less plants in favor of reliability and buff to their damage * her plants should be useful at all stages of the game. * a reason to use lashers over spitters
Azadethe (NA)
: What am I supposed to be seeing in the patch notes that is a change to damage? The change from 50% attack speed to 50% DAMAGE on R's Enrage? 2) They never nerfed anything at all except her targetting, which now either requires her to be close to a target with her plants, or to skill/auto attack them. 3) It's called setting a stage. W's cooldown is low, and you can field pretty much like a teemo within reason due to the expirations. If you just run around while you won't set a stage and you might have 3-4 plants at best. I mean.... I jungle, mid, and support Zyra. What do I know.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPfB8lET,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-19T15:56:33.233+0000) > > What am I supposed to be seeing in the patch notes that is a change to damage? The change from 50% attack speed to 50% DAMAGE on R's Enrage? **6.9 Rework patch** Plants: Plant Health: 6 ⇒ **4** Plant Damage: 23-140 (at levels 1-18) ⇒ **19-127 (at levels 1-18)** Plant Ratio: 0.2 ability power ⇒ **0.15 ability power ** Q damage: Base: 70/105/140/175/210 ⇒ **60/90/120/150/180** Ratio: 0.65 ability power ⇒ **0.55 ability power ** **Live Zyra** Plants: Health: gets 1 shot by melee. Essentially makes vine lashers 100% more useless than they already were. Q damage: Base: **60 / 95 / 130 / 165 / 200** Ratio: **.6 ability power** So as I said before. She received nerfs across the board BECAUSE OF HER REWORK. They poured more power into the amount of plants she can have in niche situations and because of that, her Q and plant damage was toned down to compensate. Combine that with the change of shape on her Q, and you get SIGNIFICANT nerfs to her wave clears. So your argument of: > [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPfB8lET,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-19T02:18:32.253+0000) > > Her literally damage and cooldowns have be the same, including plant damage and fire rate. I suggest you go look at the history of patches. Those aspects have not changed. Is completely false. > 2) They never nerfed anything at all except her targetting, which now either requires her to be close to a target with her plants, or to skill/auto attack them. again false > 3) It's called setting a stage. W's cooldown is low, and you can field pretty much like a teemo within reason due to the expirations. If you just run around while you won't set a stage and you might have 3-4 plants at best. She is nothing like teemo. Any competent lane opponent will not let you "set a stage". > I mean.... I jungle, mid, and support Zyra. What do I know. I have mained Zyra mid/jung/sup since S4 almost exclusively.
Azadethe (NA)
: Her literally damage and cooldowns have be the same, including plant damage and fire rate. I suggest you go look at the history of patches. Those aspects have not changed. In fact, MOST Zyra players and posts after her change was that she was OP. I find it Ironic that 9 month later posts are trying to say she's weak. You could store 3. Now you can store 2. The cooldowns are lower between the stores and you can place them as well as have randoms. I literally often have 4 manual placed ones as WELL as 3-4 randoms.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPfB8lET,comment-id=0000000000010000,timestamp=2018-04-19T02:18:32.253+0000) > > Her literally damage and cooldowns have be the same, including plant damage and fire rate. I suggest you go look at the history of patches. Those aspects have not changed. https://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/patch/patch-69-notes lol it literally has not stayed the same since she was reworked. Her rework caused a whole mess of balancing issues because of the amount of plants she can summon. > In fact, MOST Zyra players and posts after her change was that she was OP. I find it Ironic that 9 month later posts are trying to say she's weak. She was OP right after her change so they nerfed her. I find it ironic that after 9 months of nerfs including the plant health fiasco and minute buffs that posts are arguing she's not weak. > You could store 3. Now you can store 2. The cooldowns are lower between the stores and you can place them as well as have randoms. **I literally often have 4 manual placed ones as WELL as 3-4 randoms. ** That's either a lie or you play against really shitty players.
Azadethe (NA)
: Yeah because 2-4 plants was better than 7-8...... Smaller aoe better for same damage and cooldowns. You just liked that Passive that gave you an after death effect.
> [{quoted}](name=Azadethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EPfB8lET,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-17T18:09:28.707+0000) > > Yeah because 2-4 plants was better than 7-8...... Smaller aoe better for same damage and cooldowns. > > > You just liked that Passive that gave you an after death effect. 2-4 actually was better. The plants lasted longer and were more reliable since the player placed them instead of RNG. The seeds also lasted A LOT longer. The size of the aoe didn't matter, it's the shape that was better. The circle allowed mid zyra to farm waves/jungle camps better than the current clunker rectangle we have now. Her damage was also higher before her rework because she had less plants so the "same damage and cooldowns" is actually not true.
Shaian (EUW)
: @Repertoir Zyra plants followup changes when reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Honestly, I think the game is just getting to be too much to balance at this point. With all the rune changes, constant item changes, and hero balances/reworks/additions, there's just a giant number of things that need adjustments at any given time. I have pretty much lost hope for Zyra being viable mid which was my preferred role before her rework.
: You do realize that Zyra anything ( Even Support ) one shots everyone.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackEtherian,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=001a,timestamp=2018-04-17T14:47:26.157+0000) > > You do realize that Zyra anything ( Even Support ) one shots everyone. Is this a troll comment? She definitely does not. Edit: At Silver 4 she might seem more viable. Once enemies learn to dodge, build mr, or kill her plants. She's a free kill. She's a low-budget brand. Literally no reason to pick her over Brand right now. Like I have said. I have been playing her since S4. Most high rank Zyra mains are fed up with how useless she is currently.
: I think most zyra mains would rather have power put into the plants, not taken from them. Her whole idea is area control, but right now she's a burt mage. I agree that she's really annoying to play right now though (circle q plss)
> [{quoted}](name=SeaChange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0019,timestamp=2018-04-17T13:49:53.932+0000) > > I think most zyra mains would rather have power put into the plants, not taken from them. Her whole idea is area control, but right now she's a burt mage. I agree that she's really annoying to play right now though (circle q plss) She has always been a burst mage. The only reason I am willing to have power taken from her plants is because they are causing balance issues. Now that Zyra has more plants, when she is good she is oppressive, and when she is bad she's near useless. That has caused Riot to overbuff/overnerf her going around in circles. Having her power in a secondary part of her kit that is controlled by AI is just not smart or fun to play even. Gone are the days of setting up a one-shot combo on the enemy squishies. Gone are the days of landing an E-W over a wall on an assassin and then bursting him down. Gone are the days when Zyra herself was actually powerful instead of her plants.
: I was a zyra main in season 6, I do not want to see her like that again. These new changes are so much healthier for the game. Why should I be able to 100-0 one shot the enemy adc/support with nothing more than sorc boots, and full magic penn? Also, I disagree with where power should be in her kit. she is one of the only characters in the game with a turret system (her plants), I think it would be better having those be strong while her abilities doing mediocre damage. ATM both are very strong, so any changes that are made will not be that great. That old circle Q was boring, ubiquitous and uninspired, this new Q is so much cooler, though it may be harder to cs with in midlane. That's more of a power trade off than anything. Its similar to how brand's w doesn't work that well at farming, but he is such a good lane bully. That's a big reason why they are played support, they are good at lane harass but aren't great at farming. Also, her ap ratios are fine. Remember that all of her abilities are AOE, so any round of abilities have the potential of hitting multiple people. Her kit is fine, she is balanced enough as it is. As for plant health, its too easy to 1 shot them in the late game, but they are extremely tanky in the early game. Tanky to the point where its a better trade to just run away from the plant rather than auto them to death in a lot of cases. Maybe their hp should have some sort of ap scaling.
> [{quoted}](name=NovemCaudaVulpis,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2018-04-17T11:42:05.172+0000) > > I was a zyra main in season 6, I do not want to see her like that again. These new changes are so much healthier for the game. Why should I be able to 100-0 one shot the enemy adc/support with nothing more than sorc boots, and full magic penn? She was oppressive for S6 and has been on life support ever since. Her rework made her a mess to balance and that's how S6 Zyra came to be and why she currently is trash. Pre-rework her numbers were fine, but her passive didn't make sense. When they added a shit ton of plants to her kit is when she got gutted. Pre-rework she could be played a multitude of ways. Now, she is shoe-horned into an early game support. Her early game is not even that good, her zone control is non-existent against competent players, and she is near useless mid-late game compared to other picks. In regards to her old Q. It's the same skill as the new Q. You just happen to like rectangles better than circles? Circle was far more beneficial for Zyra mid (which was actually viable before her rework). As for her ratios.... they are definitely not fine. Her bases are high since she has been shoehorned into an early game champ. Look at champions like Orianna. Remember, all her abilities are AOE, so any rounds of abilities have the potential of hitting multiple people {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}} For clarification. I have mained Zyra since S4. Mid, Jungle, and Sup. What she is currently, is a laughing stock.
Risen29 (NA)
: I normally love zone control champions, but I've never liked Zyra since I started playing because she doesn't actually feel like a legitimate zone controller. She feels like a mage caster who just has to throw down plants before throwing out her burst.
> [{quoted}](name=Risen29,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2018-04-17T03:17:19.152+0000) > > I normally love zone control champions, but I've never liked Zyra since I started playing because she doesn't actually feel like a legitimate zone controller. She feels like a mage caster who just has to throw down plants before throwing out her burst. She used to feel like one before her rework imo. Although I agree, she is still very much a combo mage at heart.
Bârd (NA)
: There are three things I think the rework got right. 1. They got rid of the old passive. 2. They replaced the bonus AS ult with a double hit. 3. They reworked her W's CDR passive to encourage Zyra mid. The rest of it... not a fan. 1. The old passive was horrible, but the new one isn't much better. 2. Larger plant spawning areas just mean Zyra doesn't even have to aim in order to spawn them. 3. Lowered plant lifetimes early game killed the insane clears of old Zyra jungle. 4. New Q shape is terrible. 5. They still haven't given us a real reason to use Lashers over Spitters. 6. Removal of range indicators for plants sucks. 7. They made the plants stupid. You shouldn't balance a summon by how frustrating its AI is ffs.
> [{quoted}](name=Bârd,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2018-04-17T01:24:39.220+0000) > > There are three things I think the rework got right. > > 1. They got rid of the old passive. > 2. They replaced the bonus AS ult with a double hit. > 3. They reworked her W's CDR passive to encourage Zyra mid. > > The rest of it... not a fan. > > 1. The old passive was horrible, but the new one isn't much better. > 2. Larger plant spawning areas just mean Zyra doesn't even have to aim in order to spawn them. > 3. Lowered plant lifetimes early game killed the insane clears of old Zyra jungle. > 4. New Q shape is terrible. > 5. They still haven't given us a real reason to use Lashers over Spitters. > 6. Removal of range indicators for plants sucks. > 7. They made the plants stupid. You shouldn't balance a summon by how frustrating its AI is ffs. Yes. Yes. YES!
: I loved Zyra pre-rework, and she's not been the same ever since. Her damage was gutted (in the hands of a good player), her seeds on-demand were nerfed, her cooldowns were nerfed. It was just a massive nerf overall that addressed issues that were never there to begin with.
> [{quoted}](name=NorthernRedStar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2018-04-17T00:22:02.093+0000) > > I loved Zyra pre-rework, and she's not been the same ever since. > > Her damage was gutted (in the hands of a good player), her seeds on-demand were nerfed, her cooldowns were nerfed. It was just a massive nerf overall that addressed issues that were never there to begin with. Yes!! I took a year long break after her rework just because of how unnessecary the nerfs were.
Vekkna (NA)
: +1 In Rep's defense, he has made comments elsewhere agreeing that she needs some changes and he will be making those changes. Right now, it's just a waiting game to see how many patches it will take to get them in the game. Then waiting to see how they shake out. Lots of waiting.
> [{quoted}](name=Vekkna,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-04-16T21:46:14.534+0000) > > +1 > > In Rep's defense, he has made comments elsewhere agreeing that she needs some changes and he will be making those changes. > > Right now, it's just a waiting game to see how many patches it will take to get them in the game. Then waiting to see how they shake out. Lots of waiting. Yeah I saw Lesba Zyra's post that Rep commented on. I'm glad he acknowledged that there is an issue at least. Hopefully his take away isn't just to focus on plant health (although that is the first problem that should be fixed).
brônco (NA)
: I think the major problem is trying to balance a champion where a majority of her damage is AI, sure it's unique but if they made the AI stronger it would just feel like bullshit to play against
> [{quoted}](name=brônco,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2018-04-16T20:50:12.399+0000) > > I think the major problem is trying to balance a champion where a majority of her damage is AI, sure it's unique but if they made the AI stronger it would just feel like bullshit to play against This is exactly my point. I totally agree that having most of her power come from AI feels awful to play against. How she is currently, her plants are easily countered while Zyra herself has bad scaling too. Zyra pre-rework had bad scaling, but strong plants because she could only have a maximum of 3 in the most ideal situations. This felt good for Zyra players, but her after death passive didn't seem to fit. Once they reworked her, they removed her passive in favor of more plants to fulfill her character identity of plant mage. While in theory this sounded good, it creating a whole mess of balancing issues and shifted power from her actual skills into the plants. Her ratios were nerfed across the board. Her Q shape changed to a rectangle the only reason being "too many circle skillshots we thought were uninspiring". This change was surprisingly detrimental to mid zyra since she could no longer hit all minions in a wave with one Q. Oof I could go on and on, but dang this is just such a mess. Yes though. I think the best option is to have Zyra's other abilities scale and have the plants used more for supporting Zyra.
: Thats an Idea. AFTER fixing her plants HP issues. Have her plants grow if left alone to mature (Ulted plant form) says after 4s and then live for another 4s. Ult instantly grows all plants to maturity in area for the next 6s I always look at {{champion:74}} turrets with envy as to how much HP and damage they do. Did you know His Turrets each can take two Tower hits?
> [{quoted}](name=XXXMurderPenguin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-04-16T18:42:04.131+0000) > > Thats an Idea. > > AFTER fixing her plants HP issues. Agree wholeheartedly. All this was written with the expectation that Riot finds a way to discourage enemies from killing plants. Either by increasing plant health (which seems to tip the scale whether she's oppressive or underwhelming) or by changing the way her plants function which leads into my suggestion in the OP.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-16T18:06:53.248+0000) > > Zyra unlike Garen though is skillshot based. Everything in her kit can be dodged For sure, it is different- but that is not an excuse for dmg triggering incorrectly. Another case in point, as an example, is warwicks held q. Even if you flash- no matter what you do, he will follow you. Yi is similar. Nothing should follow you in flash and all autos/abilities should be dropped. It needs to be consistent. Consitency is the key here, either everything should follow or nothing should. Its a pain in the ass to have to remember every single ability champions use---- then on top of that all the special interactions .... messy.
> [{quoted}](name=KazaJhodo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2018-04-16T18:29:18.044+0000) > > For sure, it is different- but that is not an excuse for dmg triggering incorrectly. Another case in point, as an example, is warwicks held q. Even if you flash- no matter what you do, he will follow you. > > Yi is similar. Nothing should follow you in flash and all autos/abilities should be dropped. It needs to be consistent. Consitency is the key here, either everything should follow or nothing should. Its a pain in the ass to have to remember every single ability champions use---- then on top of that all the special interactions .... messy. All of Zyra's damage is working as Riot intends it to currently. Q damage has a short delay after visual queue, E damage has a crazy slow telegraph, and her R is instant only in the center and slowly creeps outward. Yi, Warwick, and Garen are not similar in this discussion.
: Zyras dmg is really frustrating, it comes out instantly. Especially ult, the circle drops and kills you before it goes off. Like garen's q, you get hit with the silence soon as he jumps, not when his sword connects. I always try to react to it and get effed by the early silence.
> [{quoted}](name=KazaJhodo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-16T18:02:51.060+0000) > > Zyras dmg is really frustrating, it comes out instantly. Especially ult, the circle drops and kills you before it goes off. Like garen's q, you get hit with the silence soon as he jumps, not when his sword connects. I always try to react to it and get effed by the early silence. Zyra unlike Garen though is skillshot based. Everything in her kit can be dodged
Hópe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-16T16:50:12.444+0000) > > Yeah, ulted plants feel almost more useless sometimes. > > Definitely not hitting the mark balance-wise I'd happily give up some Q waveclear or something for plant health. Or hit her passive I dont care. Those plants need fucking metal armor lol
> [{quoted}](name=Hópe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-16T16:51:01.792+0000) > > I'd happily give up some Q waveclear or something for plant health. Or hit her passive I dont care. Those plants need fucking metal armor lol I think there should be room for both proper waveclear and plant health personally. It seems like Zyra has been a mess to balance though. RiotRepertoir even has hinted she might need a full rework. I don't know if that's necessarily the case, but most of her balance issues seem to come from the plants themselves.
Hópe (NA)
: Sometimes I'll W-W-R and wonder where the fuck my plants went. They literally get 1 shotted by **anything**.
> [{quoted}](name=Hópe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-16T16:37:53.235+0000) > > Sometimes I'll W-W-R and wonder where the fuck my plants went. They literally get 1 shotted by **anything**. Yeah, ulted plants feel almost more useless sometimes. Definitely not hitting the mark balance-wise
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Variable Æ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7Ov6feHE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-04-16T16:42:40.473+0000) > > **** YOU, RIOT. not like this
Rioter Comments
Lesba Zyra (EUNE)
: CG riot. You have finally destroyed midlane Zyra
The way Riot has handled Zyra has made me leave the game. I used to love playing her mid and jungle with the occasional support, but after Zyra 2.0, I could tell it was just a matter of time before she was nerfed into the ground. I took a year break from League around that time. I came back with a willingness to to adjust to her new state a few months ago. Sadly it was as I expected. She had been nerfed into the ground, lost even more plant reliability, the change of her Q shape actually caused her to lose damage simply because it is not as reliable as her old circle one, and now they have nerfed her core itemization. GG Zyra It's been fun my gal. Can't say I see myself picking up League again anytime soon.
: ZOMG!!! Kefka has come to FFXIV
4 years later and this game still has such a vibrant player base! Even the starting areas have a decent amount of people.
Vacus (NA)
: Damn, I need to play FF14 again, get myself to cap. Did the new BLM buffs come out yet? When is that if not? >.>
> [{quoted}](name=Vacus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=o9BEdiAG,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-01-19T19:06:31.822+0000) > > Damn, I need to play FF14 again, get myself to cap. > > Did the new BLM buffs come out yet? When is that if not? >.> BLM buffs are coming in patch 4.2 set to release on January 30th
Evoki11 (EUNE)
: League of Legends drinks?
Shaco's sounds pretty good. Also Rumble's seems to have more alcohol per volume so... maybe that one {{sticker:sg-zephyr}}
: Here is why I hate most posts about Net Neutrality:
Here is another fairly unbiased article detailing most of the situation: https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/2001903-repealing-net-neutrality-will-impact-it-but-experts-disagree-on-how FCC Chairman Ajit Pai's thought process behind the repeal of Net Neutrality: Companies such as Google are allowed to monetize their content and customers in multiple ways, ISPs are currently only allowed to make their profits via subscriptions under the current rules. Pai wants to change this and has said that ISPs should be able to make as much money as possible so they can continue to invest it into building the networks and technologies of tomorrow."
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6fBvUTrf,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-12-15T19:31:25.471+0000) > > **I came across this on another forum that really shed light on the topic. This poster works for an ISP.** > > "Two reasons for monopolies: > 1) Regional (whether it be city, county, or state) governments allow them to happen. Those governments accept money from the ISPs, whether they be campaign contributions or paying taxes/fees to have their lines operating in that region. > 2) Because they are “utilities” you can only have so many lines, switching stations, and routing stations within an area. Your local monopoly may happen to own all of the hardware and lines in the region. If no one else had set up that hardware or lines within the region, then there is no real competition. If another ISP wants to operate on those lines (example, Comcast being able to operate on AT&T lines and switching stations), then that ISP has to pay to do so. This is no different than how things work with the electric company. I bet you don’t have choices to which electric company you can purchase power from. The same concept with the Internet. > > As for your last statement, yes, it is suicide if a company within the USA to try do those tiered based packages. Those types of plans work in countries and regions that do per-bit internet services instead of per bandwidth like here in the USA. > > As for forking over more cash, well that is the crux of Title 2 of NN isn’t it? > > What seems like a fight between “the people” and the ISPs is really a fight of corporation versus corporation. It’s ISPs versus .com companies (Facebook, Google, Pornhub, Neflix, etc.). As someone who actually deals with these .com companies at a business level, they are really greedy and selfish. They do not want to pay for the traffic they create for their services. The amount packets and sizes of the packets can actually bog down networks. The traffic Pornhub alone in 2016 was massive. > > > ---- > > Imagine the amount of data Netflix and Hulu sent out in 2016? How many 16GB USB sticks worth? > Here is the thing with video streaming packets: they are large, they require very low chances of being dropped, very high requirement of perfectly being timed to delivery, also very low chance of causing poor quality. It takes some very high end equipment that eats up a lot of power to do this consistently. These .com companies don’t want to pay for it. > > That is like me having a shipping and freight company, but me not paying my fair share of taxes in order to maintain and improve the roads. In scenarios like that, you get one of the three outcomes: > • in order to maintain the roads and improve the roads to handle the huge trucks, everyone will pay an increase on a tax (sales, property, gasoline) > • nothing will happen and a war of attrition will happen and the roads will fall apart. The goal is for the government to get my company to pay for road maintenance cause by me > • force my company to pay via lawsuit, which my company will probably pick up and leave if that happens since I am not getting any special treatment anymore. > > That scenario is exactly the same thing with Net Neutrality. > • If the .com sites won’t pay for their fair share, then the ISPs will charge consumers more money since they are the end users > • If a law prevents ISPs from charging consumers too much, then a war of attrition will happen. The ISPs’ goal is to get the .coms to pay for their increased traffic. Though the .com people will never pay, instead the consumer will be dealing with degrading technology and lines. ISPs will just keep doing bare minimum > • A lawsuit goes against the .coms and the just get up and leave. They don’t even have to physically leave, they can change their headquarters to another country just by moving a few pieces of paper. Of course, they won’t need to leave, they have “friends” in all levels of government ready to protect them if that comes about. Of course, NN Title 2 was their baby. > > This is what NN is actually about: corporations not paying their fair share. We all want corporations to pay their fair share, correct? > > InB4: “Look how much money the ISPs made X year, <insert something about greed here>.” I will point to how much these .com companies have made. Most of that money comes from selling your personal information to other companies and the government." Removing Net Neutrality doesn't change any of that, it's just the customers who'd suffer in any case. You talk about making them pay their fair share but all this does is allow ISPs to slow down the traffic regardless. Great, you slow down Netflix, and now it's the customer who doesn't get their shows. And even if they do pay for the ISP to not throttle their network, you think Netflix is gonna go "Oh well, they're charging us more but we'll be fine." No, they're gonna go and charge more for their services now.
> [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=6fBvUTrf,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2017-12-15T20:09:32.679+0000) > > Removing Net Neutrality doesn't change any of that, it's just the customers who'd suffer in any case. You talk about making them pay their fair share but all this does is allow ISPs to slow down the traffic regardless. Great, you slow down Netflix, and now it's the customer who doesn't get their shows. And even if they do pay for the ISP to not throttle their network, you think Netflix is gonna go "Oh well, they're charging us more but we'll be fine." No, they're gonna go and charge more for their services now. Yeah, no I totally agree. We get screwed regardless naturally, but I thought this bit of information was pretty informative.
KilljoyX (NA)
: Virtually quit league heres a report from the outside.
Watch Hunter x Hunter! It's on hulu and I HIGHLY recommend it. Take your time with Breath of the Wild. That game has so many places to explore
: Here is why I hate most posts about Net Neutrality:
**I came across this on another forum that really shed light on the topic. This poster works for an ISP.** "Two reasons for monopolies: 1) Regional (whether it be city, county, or state) governments allow them to happen. Those governments accept money from the ISPs, whether they be campaign contributions or paying taxes/fees to have their lines operating in that region. 2) Because they are “utilities” you can only have so many lines, switching stations, and routing stations within an area. Your local monopoly may happen to own all of the hardware and lines in the region. If no one else had set up that hardware or lines within the region, then there is no real competition. If another ISP wants to operate on those lines (example, Comcast being able to operate on AT&T lines and switching stations), then that ISP has to pay to do so. This is no different than how things work with the electric company. I bet you don’t have choices to which electric company you can purchase power from. The same concept with the Internet. As for your last statement, yes, it is suicide if a company within the USA to try do those tiered based packages. Those types of plans work in countries and regions that do per-bit internet services instead of per bandwidth like here in the USA. As for forking over more cash, well that is the crux of Title 2 of NN isn’t it? What seems like a fight between “the people” and the ISPs is really a fight of corporation versus corporation. It’s ISPs versus .com companies (Facebook, Google, Pornhub, Neflix, etc.). As someone who actually deals with these .com companies at a business level, they are really greedy and selfish. They do not want to pay for the traffic they create for their services. The amount packets and sizes of the packets can actually bog down networks. The traffic Pornhub alone in 2016 was massive. ---- Imagine the amount of data Netflix and Hulu sent out in 2016? How many 16GB USB sticks worth? Here is the thing with video streaming packets: they are large, they require very low chances of being dropped, very high requirement of perfectly being timed to delivery, also very low chance of causing poor quality. It takes some very high end equipment that eats up a lot of power to do this consistently. These .com companies don’t want to pay for it. That is like me having a shipping and freight company, but me not paying my fair share of taxes in order to maintain and improve the roads. In scenarios like that, you get one of the three outcomes: • in order to maintain the roads and improve the roads to handle the huge trucks, everyone will pay an increase on a tax (sales, property, gasoline) • nothing will happen and a war of attrition will happen and the roads will fall apart. The goal is for the government to get my company to pay for road maintenance cause by me • force my company to pay via lawsuit, which my company will probably pick up and leave if that happens since I am not getting any special treatment anymore. That scenario is exactly the same thing with Net Neutrality. • If the .com sites won’t pay for their fair share, then the ISPs will charge consumers more money since they are the end users • If a law prevents ISPs from charging consumers too much, then a war of attrition will happen. The ISPs’ goal is to get the .coms to pay for their increased traffic. Though the .com people will never pay, instead the consumer will be dealing with degrading technology and lines. ISPs will just keep doing bare minimum • A lawsuit goes against the .coms and the just get up and leave. They don’t even have to physically leave, they can change their headquarters to another country just by moving a few pieces of paper. Of course, they won’t need to leave, they have “friends” in all levels of government ready to protect them if that comes about. Of course, NN Title 2 was their baby. This is what NN is actually about: corporations not paying their fair share. We all want corporations to pay their fair share, correct? InB4: “Look how much money the ISPs made X year, <insert something about greed here>.” I will point to how much these .com companies have made. Most of that money comes from selling your personal information to other companies and the government."
: Allowed for more plants at one time if you timed it right making you back off no matter what if you werent with a tank/are a tank
They already increased plant duration though. Having almost 16 seconds of multiple plants in your face (8 of that being enraged plants) sounds lame as hell from an enemy standpoint.
: That is not what Im talking about. Its the plants Duration. On the PBE you could make plants and when they were about to expire you could ult them and refresh the Duration. That was on the PBE, but then this went live they removed that.
It would be nice to get some insight as to why they chose to remove that specific part from going live. Possibly too oppressive? Since Zyra mid is mostly burst anyways, I don't see the refresh on plants as being super detrimental to her success. Most Zyra mid players are mad her E buffs didn't make it to live.
: Goog one Riot, The only real buff to Zyra on the PBE didnt make it to live.
It's in the patch notes, so that should be live. "Enraged plants gain 50% current and max health"
ƒaçade (NA)
: Mafia / Queenpin LeBlanc Skin Concept by Riot Hylia
Posted that back when he was just Hylia {{sticker:zombie-nunu-tears}} what a great "follow your dreams" story
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=000100010001000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:07:21.734+0000) > > I didn&#x27;t see any questions in your post except these, &quot;Now that he has escaped, what is his purpose? Why do those men fight him when one of them shouldn&#x27;t have even survived the process?&quot; which I assumed were rhetorical, but I can give my thoughts on it. > > I thought the reasons they both continue to fight as well as why Kai is still alive are pretty well outlined in the comics. > > I find this quote from Tyler Eltringham (creative development producer at Riot) summarizes the internal battles and motives inside Varus: > > “In the end, they’ve reached some sort of unity to control the body,” Eltringham says. “We wanted to make sure each of the three souls have a voice: Varus the darkin is all about bloody revenge, all Val wants is to break their bonds and take back their old lives, and all Kai wants is to make sure Val doesn’t give in to his anger and that things stay balanced.&quot; > > Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929 Yeah, I read the comic. In their unity, the single entity serves no purpose. Each plays their part in the balance but as a single creature there is no defined purpose. They are left as a wandering Darkin that can't do anything it truly wants to do. So in their unity, they lack purpose. In their conflict, they cannot do anything. This is terrible writing because it hasn't left any room for growth and while it tells a tale, there's no real growth as characters either. At best, you have Val learning that he should have accepted the death of his Heart-Light rather than give into grief and desperation and ignore the prior warnings. It's like Val hoped against hope that the malicious demon would be benign enough to grant his wish and nothing else; even though everything else said otherwise.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=0001000100010000000000000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T17:02:43.462+0000) > > Yeah, I read the comic. > > In their unity, the single entity serves no purpose. Each plays their part in the balance but as a single creature there is no defined purpose. They are left as a wandering Darkin that can&#x27;t do anything it truly wants to do. > > So in their unity, they lack purpose. In their conflict, they cannot do anything. > > This is terrible writing because it hasn&#x27;t left any room for growth and while it tells a tale, there&#x27;s no real growth as characters either. At best, you have Val learning that he should have accepted the death of his Heart-Light rather than give into grief and desperation and ignore the prior warnings. > > It&#x27;s like Val hoped against hope that the malicious demon would be benign enough to grant his wish and nothing else; even though everything else said otherwise. I think it's more of an origin story and jumping point for something they have planned in the future with the other Darkin champions and connecting them through lore.
Cynicatt (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r5V8l6lg,comment-id=000b00000002,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:48:37.512+0000) > > Here&#x27;s the thing though, Varus as he is after his resurgence, is not concerned with sexual relations in any way. > > The 3 souls have formed a unity for now in regards to controlling the body. > > &quot;Varus the darkin is all about bloody revenge, all Val wants is to break their bonds and take back their old lives, and all Kai wants is to make sure Val doesn’t give in to his anger and that things stay balanced.&quot; > > Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929 > > No one is concerned with &quot;liking the D&quot; or not. There is much more at stake than that. well they cant just be mad angry all the time, can they? honestly, I don't feel like too much is at stake, because any lore Riot creates is just liable to be retconned at some point. if League makes it to 2040 and we are visited by some weird aliens that are struggling to assimilate into our culture, Lux might be retconned into a reptilian shapeshifter who is just trying to fit in and find exotic love with the native crocodiles despite the judgemental gazes of the other sentient beings on the planet. or anything else is up for being retconned into anything else, really. And I'm not comparing gay people to reptillians so nobody get offended.
> [{quoted}](name=Cynicatt,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r5V8l6lg,comment-id=000b000000020000,timestamp=2017-12-01T17:03:01.356+0000) > > well they cant just be mad angry all the time, can they? > honestly, I don&#x27;t feel like too much is at stake, because any lore Riot creates is just liable to be retconned at some point. if League makes it to 2040 and we are visited by some weird aliens that are struggling to assimilate into our culture, Lux might be retconned into a reptilian shapeshifter who is just trying to fit in and find exotic love with the native crocodiles despite the judgemental gazes of the other sentient beings on the planet. > or anything else is up for being retconned into anything else, really. > > And I&#x27;m not comparing gay people to reptillians so nobody get offended. Honestly I feel that Val and Kai are fighting a losing battle and eventually the Darkin will be the only thing left and in that case, yes he will probably be mad and angry all the time. In regards to gay people being reptiles..... *licks lizard eye *
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=0001000100020000,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:32:55.003+0000) > > If the ideas and or concept are not up to par, that goes hand-in-hand with the writing. The ideas put into words did not pack a significant punch for what Riot wanted to achieve, and that is the reason his lore was updated. I don't see anything wrong with his old lore > > In regards to the second part of your comment: > > “In the original story he was just one dude,” Eltringham says. “We really wanted to make the tragedy element of the story the strongest bit, the part we remember. When we were thinking about how we keep it intact, we thought about romantic relationships. How do we tear that apart? We had our team put together some ideas, and we were beating up an early outline for the story. We had this relationship built that we were going to really, really tear apart. Someone in the room stopped and asked the question: “Does the gender actually matter?” We all sort of stopped and looked around and said, ‘No, it doesn’t.’ That was the impetus to do something a little different than we’ve done before in making that relationship be about two men.” > > Source: > > http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929 So why did they have to change it again? He had a wife and kids, which is a romantic relationship. If they want the tragedy to be the focus then just rewrite the old lore.
> [{quoted}](name=GlobDaBlob,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=00010001000200000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:41:09.216+0000) > > I don&#x27;t see anything wrong with his old lore Some people liked it for sure. I along with others didn't care if it got changed drastically. > So why did they have to change it again? He had a wife and kids, which is a romantic relationship. If they want the tragedy to be the focus then just rewrite the old lore. This was their artistic choice to take the character on a different path than when he was originally created. So much of his story had changed throughout the writing process, they didn't see his family as a driving force behind his identity. They wanted Varus to embody tragedy and agreed that gender didn't actually matter in regards to the romantic relationship seen in his lore.
Cynicatt (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=The Oasis,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r5V8l6lg,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-12-01T04:26:36.350+0000) > > Varus isn&#x27;t even gay. He just possessed two gay men. this is a dumb argument, isn't it? Varus is 3 souls now and he's outnumbered 2 to 1 on the vote for their sexuality, so what is the point in arguing he doesn't like D.
> [{quoted}](name=Cynicatt,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=r5V8l6lg,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:15:50.714+0000) > > this is a dumb argument, isn&#x27;t it? > Varus is 3 souls now and he&#x27;s outnumbered 2 to 1 on the vote for their sexuality, so what is the point in arguing he doesn&#x27;t like D. Here's the thing though, Varus as he is after his resurgence, is not concerned with sexual relations in any way. The 3 souls have formed a unity for now in regards to controlling the body. "Varus the darkin is all about bloody revenge, all Val wants is to break their bonds and take back their old lives, and all Kai wants is to make sure Val doesn’t give in to his anger and that things stay balanced." Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929 No one is concerned with "liking the D" or not. There is much more at stake than that.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-12-01T14:07:10.951+0000) > > His old lore is what was TERRIBLY written. > > Guy whose family died and omg get this, he makes a pact with evil spirit/magic to exact his vengeance. TOTALLY HAVEN&#x27;T HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE!! > > People clutching to the old story and claiming the new as &quot;terribly written&quot; are delirious or just enjoy vastly overused storytelling tropes. Just because something is not 100% original does not make it poorly written. And if that quality is all you really care about, what stopped them from rewriting the old lore, but keeping the same story/character?
> [{quoted}](name=GlobDaBlob,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=000100010002,timestamp=2017-12-01T16:20:04.645+0000) > > Just because something is not 100% original does not make it poorly written. > > And if that quality is all you really care about, what stopped them from rewriting the old lore, but keeping the same story/character? If the ideas and or concept are not up to par, that goes hand-in-hand with the writing. The ideas put into words did not pack a significant punch for what Riot wanted to achieve, and that is the reason his lore was updated. In regards to the second part of your comment: “In the original story he was just one dude,” Eltringham says. “We really wanted to make the tragedy element of the story the strongest bit, the part we remember. When we were thinking about how we keep it intact, we thought about romantic relationships. How do we tear that apart? We had our team put together some ideas, and we were beating up an early outline for the story. We had this relationship built that we were going to really, really tear apart. Someone in the room stopped and asked the question: “Does the gender actually matter?” We all sort of stopped and looked around and said, ‘No, it doesn’t.’ That was the impetus to do something a little different than we’ve done before in making that relationship be about two men.” Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=0001000100010000,timestamp=2017-12-01T14:50:24.144+0000) > > His old lore was not an example of a well-written cliche in the slightest. He was one of the least fleshed-out characters in the roster lore-wise. > > The rest of your post is just your opinion which I don&#x27;t agree with, but you are entitled to have. The point I was making about "cliche" and "well written" is that they were not mutually exclusive. Meanwhile, you didn't answer the questions I posed that are part of making his lore an actual story and giving each part of him room for growth as a character.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=00010001000100000000,timestamp=2017-12-01T14:55:18.010+0000) > > The point I was making about &quot;cliche&quot; and &quot;well written&quot; is that they were not mutually exclusive. > > Meanwhile, you didn&#x27;t answer the questions I posed that are part of making his lore an actual story and giving each part of him room for growth as a character. I didn't see any questions in your post except these, "Now that he has escaped, what is his purpose? Why do those men fight him when one of them shouldn't have even survived the process?" which I assumed were rhetorical, but I can give my thoughts on it. I thought the reasons they both continue to fight as well as why Kai is still alive are pretty well outlined in the comics. I find this quote from Tyler Eltringham (creative development producer at Riot) summarizes the internal battles and motives inside Varus: “In the end, they’ve reached some sort of unity to control the body,” Eltringham says. “We wanted to make sure each of the three souls have a voice: Varus the darkin is all about bloody revenge, all Val wants is to break their bonds and take back their old lives, and all Kai wants is to make sure Val doesn’t give in to his anger and that things stay balanced." Source: http://www.rollingstone.com/glixel/features/varus-league-of-legends-hero-remade-with-gay-storyline-w512929
: > [{quoted}](name=Chortle,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-12-01T14:07:10.951+0000) > > His old lore is what was TERRIBLY written. > > Guy whose family died and omg get this, he makes a pact with evil spirit/magic to exact his vengeance. TOTALLY HAVEN&#x27;T HEARD THAT ONE BEFORE!! > > People clutching to the old story and claiming the new as &quot;terribly written&quot; are delirious or just enjoy vastly overused storytelling tropes. There is a difference between cliche and well written. Any cliche can be written so well (or terribly) it's set as an example of how to do it. Previously, Varus still had made the conscious choice to merge with the demon to exact his desires. And truthfully, he still hated Noxus and had more vengeance to exact by proxy of defending other villages that Noxus might attack. Now, it's simply a fatally wounded warrior with his gay lover having a demon merging and possessing their bodies to escape the prison he was sealed in. Now that he has escaped, what is his purpose? Why do those men fight him when one of them shouldn't have even survived the process? I would have rather seen the non-wounded warrior sacrifice his body to the demon as a means to save his lover. The result of the process is becoming a bow merged into his lover's arm. But when the demon tries to consume the other as well, the one who sacrificed his body to save his lover fights back to prevent the corruption from spreading beyond the pact they made. The demon, though, decides to make another deal. If he (as the bow) were to be used for the purposes of battle and vengeance, he would not actively corrupt the now healthy warrior who was once about to die. Now we have a situation where the demon must bide his time if he is to escape this deal he is now stuck within, and he must contest with not just one but two entities who have no intention of allowing his malice to be unchecked. Now we have a character who is literally fighting an internal battle with the Darkin Devil on his shoulder and Angel Lover the other and all 3 now have a purpose for existing outside of this story.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=PAZ5Bg7b,comment-id=000100010001,timestamp=2017-12-01T14:42:50.034+0000) > > There is a difference between cliche and well written. Any cliche can be written so well (or terribly) it&#x27;s set as an example of how to do it. > His old lore was not an example of a well-written cliche in the slightest. He was one of the least fleshed-out characters in the roster lore-wise. The rest of your post is just your opinion which I don't agree with, but you are entitled to have.
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Chortle

Level 49 (NA)
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