Reav3 (NA)
: That was exactly my point. When we did Fiora is was before we had 2 full VGU teams. Fiora kept the same rig and we just updated the model (Same as Shen.) If we had put both through the full VGU process and pushed them further and spent way more time on there art I think they both would have been much better. Fiora is a case where we only went halfway, which never really works very well. Had we pushed it as far as our other VGUs it probably would have been a lot stronger.
> [{quoted}](name=Reav3,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=PLtEVriK,comment-id=000200000000000000020000000300000004000000050000,timestamp=2017-05-26T18:13:28.355+0000) > > That was exactly my point. When we did Fiora is was before we had 2 full VGU teams. Fiora kept the same rig and we just updated the model (Same as Shen.) If we had put both through the full VGU process and pushed them further and spent way more time on there art I think they both would have been much better. Fiora is a case where we only went halfway, which never really works very well. Had we pushed it as far as our other VGUs it probably would have been a lot stronger. Would you consider giving her and Shen a full VGU or are you going to stick with these versions for now?
Reav3 (NA)
: Probably Tier 2 or Tier 3.
What's wrong with Quinn that she's even on the list at all?
Reav3 (NA)
: I think we should have pushed Fiora further from the Art/VO stand point. But, yes I would put her more in the camp of Fiora & Warwick where we would want to modernize her rather then re-invent her. Evelynn and Irelia are in a similar camp.
So Eve will keep most of her abilities?
: When it's time for TF to start making moves on the map
: Well, there are three things you need to remember about these boards. 1. Most issues are divided. The boards are not one entity, and treating it as one will frustrate you. 2. Peoples' minds change. Orianna starts being played more, people don't like her, they change their mind. 3. Most posts you see are a mix of upvotes and downvotes. Keep that in mind.
: There's an old joke that all the people on Boards/Reddit are just burnt out silver players who just complain about the game without actually playing it
: > Riot Games have created a delicately fragile environment with some absolutely absurd standards and priorities. I've played sports my entire life, and still do. If I'm playing a pick-up game of hockey, I'm sure as hell going to be asked to leave and not return with an attitude like yours. It has nothing to do with a 'fragile environment'. > I have just recently discovered that I have been permabanned for a single incident that happened earlier today. One game. No, you were perma-banned because you've had 6 previous penalties, and didn't listen or believe the seriousness of their warnings. The last time you were penalized, which wasn't too long ago, you were told the next time would be a perma-ban. Well, it's the next time. > I will 100% admit that my actions were inappropriate. I don't really know what the issue is here. You admitted you were in the wrong. You were told the next penalty would come to this. > don't think it's warranted. At all. A one game outburst [...] It wasn't a one game outburst. This is common behavior for you. > But the fact that this community has placed an emphasis on punishing "mean guy hurt my feelings" over "cry baby is ruining the game for 9 other people" in a competitive gaming scene, is laughable to me. There is no emphasis. People that ruin games are penalized. Ruining games can be done by trolling, intentional feeding, or harassment. Tell me how it creates a gaming experience that you enjoy and want to return to when players say things similar to what you said? > it's just sad that we've gotten so used to this way of thinking. Are you advocating that the community en-mass should change into a pile of trolls? It's the community that sets the standards. I think you're going to have a hard sell convincing the player-base that they must put up with harassment while they are playing a video game. The title of your post was related to the behavior systems being broken. How would you suggest they be changed? > As expected, this forum is filled with nothing but Riot Games yes-men who can't think logically. It's actually the opposite. Our behavior systems and norms and created/informed by the community. We simply enforce what the playerbase has taught our systems. For example, in Korea 'your mom' jokes are extremely bad, where in the U.S. it's just a joke. So these people on the forums are sharing THEIR opinions. They are not spouting off a stance Riot has created.
So are your mom jokes ban worthy in Korea? What other taboos differ between regions?
Reav3 (NA)
: Singed is on the list for a full VGU. He isn't tier 1 because there are currently worse offenders. That doesn't mean he won't move up to tier 1 at some point. Fiddlesticks, for example, has moved up to tier 1 as his gameplay has proven more dated and unhealthy as time has gone on.
Didn't know that about Fiddle.
: Clearly fake. There's a Zac skin, and they explicitly don't make Zac skins because "he changes shape so it's impossible to code." It's why he still doesn't have a suit :(
They said that they were difficult to make, and there's pool party Zac.
: No, it means it's a place holder until Riot's Splash Art team can get around to updating it. With new champions, current champion reworks and new skins, that team already has enough on their plate. When the team behind the splashes continue cranking through their still relatively long list of previous champions who received a visual update, eventually Sivir will get her's. In case you needed the list of champions who have previously received a VU or VGU without getting entirely new Splash Art; {{champion:12}} {{champion:1}} {{champion:22}} {{champion:69}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:40}} {{champion:30}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:15}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:16}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:112}}
Well that's gonna take about 5 years.
: @Riot, Notice that Riven has never had a META tank build
If this is your attempt at promoting a slayers update, then go for it.
Bârd (NA)
: A new set of leaks
What is Ionia feeding these monks to make them so mobile? How many push-ups do they do? How many sit-ups? What kind of juice do they drink?
: K so this did end up getting upvoted close to the top and that's dumb. This shit needs to go. It's one thing to have a problem with Cait and if I spent the time to make valid points, it'd likely get ignored or randomly downvoted. But make my title click bait and make my post more comedy than constructive criticism without actually saying anything, that's the best chance you have at getting a post read and that's disturbing. This is supposed to be riots official site for discussing balance. Yet this wannabe Reddit style joke of a cesspool doesn't enable that at all because it's all about votes so people can feel good about what they say. It requires no investment into an actual discussion to steer the direction of a topic here. These dumbass nested comments and sort by vote need to go. Maybe then this place can actually get viable feedback that's well thought out and isn't click bait.
These boards hate Caitlyn. Why wouldn't a valid thread about her be down voted? Unless you meant to defend her, and even then I'd say people exaggerate down voting.
: I work at a landscaping company. I tend the garden when not in projects. I am studying to become a pilot and writing is a hobby I love.
Aren't you a banker too? We need to turn you into a meme.
Meddler (NA)
: Unlikely. We talk about these definitions for anyone interested in understanding how we think about the different types of champion, it's not something that really drives champion selection or anything in game though.
I'd like it just from an organization point of view. Fighters list is huge in champ select.
: I won't judge you for who you ban.
While you might have a point about refusing to learn how to play against a champion, do you trust your team to try while in ranked? High rank at that. Will you be upset if they feed or let that champion free farm as they try to deal with them?
: I like how often people critique nerfs such as the Lee Sin movespeed changes + slight ult CD change, acting like Riot has no idea what they are doing. Lets just ignore that Lee had an almost 3% drop in winrate from those changes. At least let the changes go through before screaming. As a side note Ahri changes went like this> W 10% less AP scaling, across all 3 fires (which hit at 30% damage on additional bolts at the same target). That is 30% less AP scaling across 3 targets, 23% Less scaling across 2, and 16% less Ap scaling vs a single target. R: 5% less AP scaling, across her 3 bolts, which fire 3 times. Up to 3 bolts can hit one target meaning that her ult caused a 15-45% AP scaling drop depending on the number of targets. E: 10% AP scaling increase on the ability with 1.5 - 2.4 times the CD of W In a full rotation of her spells Ahri lost 21% AP scaling vs a single target. In team fights she lost 65% AP scaling lost. Over a 10 second rotation of all of her abilities (So 2 Foxfires) she lost 27-95% AP scaling depending on the number of targets. Just because it feels like a small nerf does not make it a small nerf. ------------------------------------- Think about how frequently Lucian goes OOM in lane, it is very often for an ADC, especially if they spam. They use Q anywhere from 2-5+ times in a bit fight, most bot lane fights early on are 2-3 unless they are very short trades. hitting the mana cost means he can use it less, which means less waveclear and less bullying. That means he can't capitalize are strongly on won trades, and pushing him in hurts him a lot as he has to burn even more mana just to keep up, and as well already covered he burns more mana than just about any other adc. Hitting him in the mana hits him exactly where he needs it, but hurting his flexibility and limiting his ability to trade all the time. Lucian is meant to deal damage, that is fine. By limiting his mana pool you keep lucian strong in terms of power, but hit his laning phase quite hard and give incentive for him to go down the essence reaver path which weakens his laning phase further as well as focusing him around the mid-late game more so he can't run away with games so early.
awdaf (NA)
: I just lost a game because a wasp flew on my head, and it was mid team fight
How did a wasp get into your house? Can't complain since I had to deal with a huge roach one time during a game.
: New Classes/Subclasses List
How is Gragas a vanguard now? I thought he was a battle mage?
: Riot was asked "Is Rengar going to remain an assassin or a bruiser/skirmisher after the rework?"
Too be fair, not only was Graves taken out of the bot lane with his marksmen rework, he's now considered a unique champion.
: They should make longer GIF where you can also see Cersei and put Meddler's head over it.
: New Classes/Subclasses List
Is Rengar intended to be a diver now or is that his current state?
Meddler (NA)
: Big distinction between Vanguards and Catchers is that Vanguards go in with their initiation and then tank a bunch of damage. Catchers more often fish for picks from a safer spots further away (Rakan's a bit of an odd one there, though his ability to get out via E fairly reliably still gives a pseudo ranged fishing pattern). Alistar wise power of the WQ combo was the key argument. He can peel, no argument, but he's always been scary to play against because of his ability to get onto and CC enemies aggressively.
Figured Rakan would be an enchanter due to his E and Q.
Meddler (NA)
: We think Skarner would benefit from changes larger than just balance ones. We don't have a rework currently on the books for him however. We are classifying him based off his current state as a result, since we don't have a clear enough expectation he'll change.
Will you give him an Aatrox update until his vgu?
Ralanr (NA)
: Poor Skarner. Riot can't make up their minds.
At least he has less reworks than Ryze.
Meddler (NA)
: Looking at Skarner at present we concluded he was playing much closer to Jarvan, Vi etc - fighters with some initiation capability who are still pretty focused on a particular target, rather than team initiation as a whole. His builds and playstyle match that, with a mixture of damage and defense. Can still see some arguments for making him Vanguard like, that's a could happen rather than something we're confident will happen though, in contrast with Evelynn. Nocturne's a best guess situation, overall we figured Assassin was the better description than Diver however. Yes on Renekton (still a Diver).
How is Renekton a diver? Thought he was a juggernaut. Same with Olaf, but thought he would be a skirmished?
Meddler (NA)
: There's a bit of that going on yeah. Nocturne's not exactly an assassin at present, though when we do see him effective it's generally with a really bursty assassin like build. Long term we expect he'll move more in that direction as a result. Ahri's certainly got assassin qualities, some of that's that there's pretty significant overlap between Burst Mages and Assassins though, with both trying to kill specific targets quickly. Adding mobility to a burst mage gets them pretty close to an assassin generally as a result (Ahri/LB/Lissandra all having some degree of assassin style flank/pick potential). Evelynn's update should make an assassin playstyle much more sensible on her (less build tanky and grind people down diver style required).
Will Nocturne receive a vgu to become an assassin, or an update like Rek'Sai?
Ralanr (NA)
: This thread will probably get deleted now.
Finally a Sivir skin that isn't legacy or Warden.
: I don't think labeling things as fap material makes it any more or less justified. I liked and bought Pool Party Fiora as a girl because it was a fun and nice looking skin. Not because I wanted to have sex with her. As for it not making sense it does. If everyone coming to my Lawn and Garden store ask for red flowers, we order red flowers more often than blue. Even if we have almost no blue flowers. We still order them every so often for the blue flower fans. Bur our primary concern are red flowers, because not only does it sell but it makes the largest number of customers happy to focus on our popular products. Does it suck that occasionally we don't have a specific blue flower a customer wants? Sure. But we cannot order every type of blue flower on the off chance a customer wants them, bypassing the opportunity to please 15 customers by making sure we have all the red flowers in regularly. So yes. We need skins for unpopular champions. But no amount of skins for Cass is going to please more customers than a skin for Ahri.
Please don't tell me you're opening up a flower store. Unless you're parachuting them from your plane while also writing a novel?
: who are you glad ISN'T Meta?
Kalista, which is weird since I rarely see in bronze, and main Sivir.
: Have you even played her pre rework vs post ?
Not post and regardless fun is subjective so I was hoping for an answer.
: Honestly i don't care if my support is a full ap brand who's having kills
Wait your supports build sighstone and gold items? Give them to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=Metal Malicious,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=W4Vtwwfm,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-22T22:35:53.733+0000) > > **you ban yasuo because you suck** low elo triggering inc
As a support, I don't trust my mid laner to not feed against him, and then my team to not feed against him. It's hard enough dealing with my stupidity.
: "I'm still going to ban Yas"
I don't trust my team to handle him. Same reason I ban Darius.
Reav3 (NA)
: I plan on doing a "Champions" update at some point after Urgot is out. Will be going over Retros on Champions and VGUs released the first half(ish) of the year as well as talking about plans for the next couple VGUs.
Can you give us even a little tease on Urgot's lore direction?
: Ain't going to happen many of those aren't even in the top ten bans Just because it is yours/the boards circlejerk doesn't mean the majority do or will feel that way. There is the statistical reality of which champions are most banned.
Unless I can't read graphs, on a global level, about 4-5 champs op listed get banned pretty heavily, with Yas and Fizz being the highest. He isn't too far off the mark.
: Fair enough. I suppose thats bound to happen every now and then when English aint your primary language :P
Wait you're not an English speaking pirate? What do you say when you throw barrels?
Ralanr (NA)
: But...{{champion:14}} loves frozen mallet.
: > [{quoted}](name=Znoxyboy,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=bqaE4aei,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-05-20T21:47:06.952+0000) > > ...But does this continent even have a name and what is it? if not then why not? Also how big is this continent in relation to the other continents? And what is with this Kumangra/Mudtown region in the **north west** of the continent and will this region be explored in the future?(Is this some sort of tropical region as Kumangra is suspiciously close to the old Kumungu jungle)... Unfortunately not the answer you want (not yet), but minor correction - Kumangra and Mudtown are shown to the north east on the Medarda map, not the north west. Otherwise I have no quibbles with your statements. I know you know that, and have probably done the thing that I do where I get my east and west mixed up for a brief moment. I actually still have to use a mnemonic to remind myself; (going clockwise, from top) **N**o-one **E**ats **S**hredded **W**heat. Which of course isn't true, but that's the mnemonic I learned!
No idea if you can or will answer these but Which of the 3(?) continents is the largest? How large is the Freljord? I'm guessing it's not as big as a continent but I can't see it as a large country for some reason. Will we ever know why Noxus settled on a desert land? Will the Kumungu Jungle ever be a region like the others? I figured Rengar would be from there but it doesn't look like it.
: The problem I have with people on both sides of the fence is purely in tone and reasoning. More often than not in my *personal* experience people who think Riot us some cartoon villian have a far more toxic, crude, rank shaming, name calling attitude than those who just enjoy the game. I myself agree with Riot on some things: 10 ban system Shyvana rework Garen being a toxic design As some examples. And disagree on others: Malzahar rework Matchmaking Autofill As some examples. But my tone was polite up until a few days ago and I don't bandwagon. I state ideas and philosophies not just rage and salt. If that means I am pro-Riot, because I am not toxic and don't say 'Lee nerfs!' In every post. Then maybe these 'Riot is out to get us, haven't done anything right since alpha dying company!' are a problem. Because I disagree with plenty Riot does, I merely address it in a mature, productive manner like my posts on Malzahar or League's state last season. And if not being paranoid, toxic or unreasonable about nerfs or buffs is pro-Riot then sure tag me as that. That is all I had to say. But I appreciate your post overall.
While you're becoming more popular on the boards, I don't think people will check your post history to prove you don't white knight Riot. I also don't think you will check someone else's post history to prove they don't bash Riot over everything. That's probably something people should keep in mind, which I guess is the point of the thread.
Epicurus (OCE)
: The fact that Taliyah had to pass through North Shurima and Noxus to reach Targon is what makes me think Targon is in the northern continent. Taliyah journeying "west" may be short for "west by north-west". The Crown of Stone means that Targon is close enough to Demacia to be common knowledge there is a world without global communication. Nami's story tells us that the Solari territory reaches a coast, even the mountain itself is further inland. Personally I thought Targon was in the south west of the northern continent, but I suppose it could be in the north-west of the southern continent, in which case Taric's exile must have involved a ship passage, or him passing through Piltover. I'm not saying you're wrong, I just don't think there is enough information to decisively pin down a location yet.
Wait she passed through Targon first to reach northern Shurima.
: Missions should only apply to normals
Well you still have to win to complete the mission, but fair enough.
: I am an aspiring writer yes. But piloting school and my bank job comes first. I also love reading, but less fiction, more science textbooks and historical documents.
: The fact that people are complaining about My Shop is sad
All these people getting skins they don't want, and I end up getting PP MF, HS Ashe, Sinful Morg, and banana Soraka.
: I love the name. My novel has a busty demoness maid in the creepy old manor who thinks she is going to rule the world... right after the dishes are done. That is what I think of every time.
A novel you're reading or writing? I can see you doing both at this rate.
: Community reaction to literally any and all changes Riot makes
Well, even though it's a small fraction of the community, we're probably talking about hundreds and thousands of players. Can't please them all.
: Why the hell don't we have a hippy skin for ivern
HBgriz (NA)
: Yea having an actual Dark Souls skin is probably never going to happen. I think he just meant the general style. Something like Marauder Series but a little more dark and gritty. I think it would be pretty cool. You could have Yorick walking around looking like Sauron!
That's why I mentioned Inqusitor Kayle.
: There's no plans right now, but it hasn't been retired. When working on the launch skins for Xaya and Rakan I did some brief sketches of OotL but they didn't really land (I tried a whole heap of themes). We don't have much SE Asia/Indian inspired designs though so I think they have plenty of potential in the future. Are there any champions you think would be perfect for this theme? Is there something missing from the current skins that could take it to the next level? Please let me know >:)
What's the intent of the skin line? I'm guessing it's not lore related?
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Chromatic Eagle

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