: Which mage is the most useful in a team fight out of the following...
Team fights are about both teams and all members of them. If there's a lot of dashes on the other team, Cass may be best. If your team has 1 tank AND they have no tank-buster, Cho. Else, Morde.
Cdore (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=ZackTheWaffleMan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YNPYAxMF,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-11-15T18:38:31.075+0000) > > wouldn't {{item:3157}} be the *worst possible* tank item? > > a tank's purpose is to draw fire away from your team > {{item:3157}}'s purpose is to draw fire away from YOU > > i agree with the rest of the post Theorectically yes, but it's active really lets you take a breather in the middle of a fight to let cds come back up and letting your team either follow up or move around. Imagine engaging with a tank, all your long cds are used, then using stasis. Now you don't get destroyed and you can have another rotation of abilities ready. That next rotation is very good for tanks, who already lack cdr builds atm. You would build this mostly on ap tanks so you can use the AP, too. Don't build it on Sion.
Nah, it's cool on Sion, just for styling. He has some sweet animations that you don't get to see often (like his crit), so zhonya's for the savour.
: Suggestions for boots
They tried that. It became a race to get the good boots first and then go bot lane. So we have the current boots. Very gold efficient for the stats, but ultimately low slot efficiency, due to low gold cost.
: Master Yi has 80% true damage? It's a no tank meta.
Tabis, Sterak's and stoneplate. Then stack some more hp, Warmogs is good. You're trying to use the stoneplate active before Sterak's gives the shield for extra bonus health to increase the shield value. If you have 2.5k hp base, you'll have about 4.5k effective. Not a lot of cdr or defensive stats, but it's what you got.
: was his life at risk? was there a physical gun to his head? no? then he was not forced. he could just play the game then report the guy who threw. but no. he chose to dodge and took a punishment while the troll who made the threat gets away.
Wat? Just putting a physical gun to someone's head is just a threat. It's not like he pulled the trigger and killed someone. You don't even know if the gun was loaded. His life may never have been at risk. /s
Rioter Comments
: Laners just cant resist taking jg camps huh?
I feel your pain, but. If they back immediately and buy that IE and a ward, all is forgiven and I silently bless them.
Akrid415 (NA)
: I went against Lucian top
It starts in champ select. He had counterpick, so you get the matchup, but you can still change runes and Summoners (take tp). I'd try aerie, manaflow, transcendence and scorch, shield bash and the other shield one, adaptive force and 2x armor. Start with dshield or cloth and 4 pots. Rush E to 3 ranks for long range farm and poke. Try to hang on in lane until he backs (with more farm than you) so you can counter buy. Bramble vest if he's going bork, the other armor component (so you can rush omen if he goes crit).
: The third point is actually what the LPL does in merging their finals and gauntlet into the same venue. Other than that it does get me thinking about a "Build a season" idea.
Seems like they should be able to afford the cool venue with it. More teams, more games, more chances to sell swag.
Rioter Comments
: Why do you guys keep overloading kits?
There are 2 schools of thought about champ design. One is to collect or create an ability set around a theme that can generate deep/complex/rewarding gameplay. The other is to use abilities that enable the player to have the fantasy of being the archetype of the theme (a ninja or samurai or lasersquid or whatever). However, even 'fantasy' champions have gameplay needs, like poke, waveclear, sustain, cc, teamfighting. Since some of the abilities are dedicated to the fantasy, the others must be overloaded to make the champ playable.
Rioter Comments
: If you had the power to change ONE thing about LoL, what would it be?
: As a C9 fan, I was expecting Liquid to win the final...
Liquid is a hedgehog. They are good at one strategy. So I can understand losing game 1 of a series. You may just want to see exactly how good they are at their strategy. Losing game 2, the same way, is bad. Losing game 3 is awful. I was unable to detect the coaching staff's plan. It looked like Napoleon's.
Sw4de (OCE)
: Power creep of the supportive roles has to be addressed eventually if this game is ever going to be fun again ["the game is not fun anymore"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1165) - rekkles ["i think the reason why soloq is so tragic, is bc i dont think you can carry alone anymore, i think you have so much less power as an individual"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1203) - rekkles ["i think support role is more important than adc role"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1501) - rekkles ["as opposed to notcurne who literally just point and clicks you down when hes doing well"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1916) - rekkles "i think adc should be late game oriented, i like the idea that every role should excell at something, like the support should excell early game and then slow down, **but she doesnt really slow down anymore bc she gets too much gold**" - rekkles ["**jungle should be kind of similar, super strong early and then slow down later**"](https://youtu.be/jUWBjQjGZN8?t=1924) - rekkles Here's a jungler with the most gold in the game at 10min in a pro game https://youtu.be/8v1l0LdqOM0?t=1083 Rekkles also mentioned hes not sure if its just an adc specific thing, rest fucking assured, i never play adc, this is not an adc specific feeling, this is a laner feeling, the power budget in the game has been spread too thin and has skewed way too far into the supportive roles that the laners who are the ones with the disadvantage and 0 agency in the early game are not sufficiently outscaling the roaming/supportive roles anymore, **gold is being given, not earned** [**"jungle is really important right now, its a really snowbally role and its generally just bullshit, i think its just a bullshit overpowered role"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=1410) - bwipo [**"better jungler wins has never been more relevant"**](https://youtu.be/vRNLG7ofxzQ?t=2445) - bwipo jungle and support are providing more damage than they ever have in the past and its extremely oppressive to squishy carry roles The Jungler on the winning team, and often on both teams is ending up with both the highest gold on their teams and the highest level on their team, this role has the highest impact in the early game and as a drawback to that unmatchable early game impact, **in earlier seasons would get heavily outscaled**, this has not been true ever since season 6 and has sky rocketed the roles impact from consistently 1-2 or 3 to without a doubt the strongest role in the game and its not even close Proof, this is just my past 6 games, i look back further and it is true for every game in my match history, go check your own and see https://imgur.com/a/UQ3esUW These are games on a low elo smurf(gold) account where in the past up until high plat, junglers would not know how to path efficiently and would fall so far behind a fed laner, this is further proof that the role is not just overpowered but far too forgiving and far too easy to succeed with if thats not good enough for you, here are games at the highest level or korean soloq, taken from fakers' op.gg [1](https://imgur.com/a/62i1Mdg) - [2](https://imgur.com/a/dLmkUqc) If you can have the map impact of a jungler and still scale like a solo laner, whats the advantage of playing a laner? what advantage do i have as a player who is locked to 1 section of the map for the majority of the game and have to fight much harder against another person for my gold and xp? why do i then still lose 1v1s to a role that has the freedom to affect the map throughout the game? when the game was first released, jungle and support were roles that supported their lanes, in recent seasons laners are tools to help facilitate what the jungle and support want to do, its completely backwards and illogical, laners need to have push so jg and support can invade/gank/roam and get vision as they please, its no longer playing around laners or getting laners ahead anymore, because getting yourself ahead is so much more valuable now that you dont get oustcaled anymore when you're ahead on these roles https://youtu.be/jTb8Ckvq4kw?t=1703 **Heres how much damage a fed 3/0 jungler did during season 4**, it took 2 full rotations and multiple auto attacks from one of the strongest jungler at the time (lee sin) to be able to 1v1 a laner that face checks into you, nowadays lee can r/q/q e and actually 1 shot you from 100%, nocturn presses R and can literally 100-0 you in 0.2seconds, etc, **by and large junglers are stronger 1v1 than most solo laners for the large majority of the game**, compare that to your games now when even in low elo where junglers dont know how to path efficiently you have junglers who can literally 1 shot you in the blink of an eye like eve nocturne khazix, a tank jungler like sej can 1v5 your team from ahead and still kill your squishy carry, i had a game recently in low elo where i was mercilessly camped mid lane, literally ganked over 10times in a 5min span and never died once, **you would think after such inefficient play that the jungler would fall incredibly far behind right? well you would be wrong**, later in the game the same lee sin 100-0 me with a single combo and went on to finish 5000 gold ahead of any other player on his team - [proof](https://imgur.com/H6hPc6A) it has become so oppressive and nobody is talking about it, i dont get it, how is any role except jungle having fun playing this game? this is by far the biggest problem in the game right now, the reason its hard for squishy carries to feel impactful isnt because other carries are doing too much dmg, its because there are now 5 players on the enemy team that do carry levels of damage, i remember playing when fizz could wq 1 shot you, talon and zed could e-autocrit 1 shot you with IE, gragas could q r 1shot your entire team, carries are not doing more damage now then they did in the past, so why does damage feel so much more oppressive now? its because roles that shouldnt be able to 1 shot you are doing so now when they couldnt in the past, jg and support are contributing to how difficult it is to teamfight on a squishy carry, **how perfect your positioning must be to not get blown up in 1 second from 5 damage dealers**, why is everyone in competitive playing carries that provide both durability and damage? swain, vlad ryze, all the bruisers and tanks, nobody is playing a glass cannon role anymore except adc b/c they are forced to how many seasons was jungle 1 of the most impactful roles in both soloq and competitive?, does anybody even remember season 4? kakao hard carrying KT, spirit and dandy on the samsung teams, pulling out rengar and overall having unbelievable impact over the game, my video above is a 3/0 lee sin during that season 4 worlds, they literally didnt do even **HALF** as much dmg as they do now yet their impact was through the roof, **nobody could say jg was a weak role during s4**, so i dont understand why they have been buffed for so many seasons straight now riot decided that for people to have fun there should be no team roles and everyone should be a carry, because in football we have 11 strikers and no defenders right? just the way team games are meant to be played the game can never be as fun or balanced again as long as jungle and support scaling is not addressed, back when gold was earned and not given, people enjoyed the game a lot more, who would've thought, if this is fixed, carries will feel more impactful when they get ahead as the supportive roles will not be able to shut them down alone, and the supportive roles of jg and support will feel more impactful because the carry they manage to get ahead will actually be able to impact and win the game for their team on the back of their work, this is how it was, this is how it always should have been, it is more fun to watch and it is infinitely more fun to play, people seek out that rush, the adrenaline of being the god of that single game, where they got ahead and carried, thats what brings them back and that is something they dont have anymore, not on any role except jungle. How many pro's and streamers have exclaimed that the game is not fun to play anymore, its been happening for 3 years, what was the fucking catalyst, what happened in season 6? the absolute monstrosity that was the s6 jungle, both the supportive roles were buffed beyond comprehension, and in the years prior, the number of nerfs to carry potential is mind boggling, if you go through the patch notes since pre-season 4, theres xp changes to nerf how far ahead of the map you can get, gold income changes, passive gold income buffs, all of these diluted the power of carries and spread it across the map, **power is being given, not earned**, that is the primary fucking issue for years now, no matter how much better you play then your opponent, there are artificial systems in place that hold you back from getting to the god mode state that gives people the dopamine kick that makes them crave more
Please stop reposting this wall of text.
: > [{quoted}](name=Chumpzi11a,realm=NA,application-id=ELUpwER8,discussion-id=9zxbOtoA,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-08-24T12:19:40.695+0000) > > No. Too much stuff for one basic ability. It was like Akali q is now. Waveclear, poke and sustain all on one ability removes player agency because the decision gets really uninteresting (basically, your only choice becomes max it first because it's so much better than everything else). > > So, Viktor q does a lot of stuff. Point and click damage, empowered auto, shield, movespeed. But his waveclear is on his e. So, the player makes a choice to take the sustain and dodge potential of the q, or the waveclear of the e. The shield may be more important depending on the matchup. > > So, I guess it could be ok to put unstoppable back on ornn w, just make it not damaging to minions. I would disagree that it should have the damage to minions removed. In the early stages your wave clear on W is too weak to efficiently use, while late game you need to QWE the wave to clear it, which is a lot of CD and mana wasted. I do admit that in the mid game when you've maxed W, the minions melt under that damage, but it's only for a short 3-7 minute span until around 18-20m. I think there's a little room to *reduce* the W minion damage on ranks 3-5, perhaps.
So, assuming it had the unstoppable restored, what ability would you max first? Rather, in which matchups would you max another ability first? See what I'm saying? Too much stuff on one ability will CertainlyT the champ and make their strategies uninteresting. FWIW the idea of moving the shield onto e seems much more promising from a decision standpoint. I wonder though how much you want to cc yourself should you have no shield.
: A Discussion Regarding Ornn's "Unstoppable" Mechanic on W
No. Too much stuff for one basic ability. It was like Akali q is now. Waveclear, poke and sustain all on one ability removes player agency because the decision gets really uninteresting (basically, your only choice becomes max it first because it's so much better than everything else). So, Viktor q does a lot of stuff. Point and click damage, empowered auto, shield, movespeed. But his waveclear is on his e. So, the player makes a choice to take the sustain and dodge potential of the q, or the waveclear of the e. The shield may be more important depending on the matchup. So, I guess it could be ok to put unstoppable back on ornn w, just make it not damaging to minions.
: I had a house fire, I had no power for 2 weeks, it was winter so it's cold, dark, I haven't had a break in 300 hours. My dad's medical supplies need recharging so we're running a generator, I'll play some league! Horray! Ask duo to join, duo asks to bring the whole gang. Matchmaking hates 5 mans, it just slaps you vs full plat-diamond teams, then you lose, lose, lose... so we're into our 4th game of being completely obliterated. I start crying, ask for FF so I can just go to bed (I am CLEARLY REALLY fricken depressed). Nope. 3 to 5. I mute myself. Then 4 to 5. 'oh you're having a real life mental breakdown and need to go take your meds and sleep? welll too bad cuz wE dOn'T SUrRenDEr.' **I.** **HATE.** **THAT MENTALITY.** It's rampant. Not always to such an extreme, but the AMOUNT OF TIME people will WASTE... I don't HAVE unlimited gaming time what the heck?? If this was a WAR and we were fighting for good HELL YEAH NEVER SURRENDER! I'd understand but it's a freakin' videogame!!!
You sound like you want to win. Like your objective in playing is to achieve victory. On the off chance you don't know, I'll tell you how to do that more often. Play less. Take some of your limited gaming time and devote it to practice and analysis. 10 minutes of no runes (or at least no damage runes) no spells farming practice. Or, practice tool for 10 minutes to get your combos warmed up. 5 minutes after each and every game to analyze and find something, anything, that you can learn from. I work 50-55 hours a week myself, so I get where you're coming from about limited time. I'm on the other side of the surrender argument, because between the que, champ select, dodges, load screen and 15 minutes of game I'm already invested 30+ minutes. Another 10 or 15? It's less than analysis + getting into another game. I get more frustrated with the people who pick Pantheon into Darius, die twice in 5 minutes and whine in chat about getting no ganks or help. Then want to ff, because they aren't getting their bully fantasy.
Rioter Comments
: Non-Standard Item Builds: Yes or No?
Yes. if... The thing is, the build needs to counter a strength in their comp or shore up a weakness in yours. ROA, Nashor's, Lichbane Veigar is fine, if there are say, some tanks that you'll be able to auto. if the other team is assassin heavy, or poke heavy, and you'll rarely get a chance to auto, not so much. If they are really assassin heavy, maybe abyssal mask, randuins on veigar.
: When one of your teammates is being a sore winner, but also carried your team.
Full game shit-talking or flaming? "Hey, Shen, I'm gonna smash you in lane. We're gonna get that dragon. Baron's up, got any wards? WE'RE COMING DOWN MID!" If you talked it, then walked it, that's fine. If you got the kill, then dissed, that's poor sportsmanship.
: Look at the picture. The only name not covered up...? Did you come in to just high-horse, because you obviously didn't even look at the picture.
I did and both names were visible then. Hence the question. It's also how I knew both players deserve reported for their behavior. Hopefully you were the Graves, as it's easy for me to empathize. Sometimes we all get whiny quitters like Akali, you just report that trash and go on. And don't take their friend requests.
AD Yuumi (NA)
: Nexus Blitz - Week 1 Feedback and Patch Notes
1 game played. My warmogs felt pointless. Drop passive cd by 2 seconds. Red buff, all the way up there? Then takes forever to kill? Blue is omfg better. Move blue and 1 camp to bottom of map. Rift herald, didn't take it. Move it between the lanes and give it an active aggro range that increases over time. Some team kills it, it resurrects and pushes immediately. Events, snowball fight was fine, the buff was too strong. Whatever the other one or ones were, I didn't understand them immediately or eventually (I was also pretty tired). How about a "spotlight duel" event? 15 seconds notice one champion of each team (a) closest to the shop (b) with the most %hp (c) and the highest total ad meets in the pit for a 1v1 showdown. Losing team drops a tower. May the best player take a Nidalee spear in the back and scream "You're cheating, this is supposed to be 1v1!".
: Decided to do a little experiment.
Are you the Graves or the Akali? Cause both should be reported and punished. That kind of toxic behavior doesn't help anyone.
: Hey, about banning pick intents.
1. Isn't it better to support 3 teammates than 1? So, by banning silver Nidalee I'm helping the rest of the team. 2. This gets rid of everything that flaming trash likes to play. Cite this when you want to ban Zed/Yasuo/Riven. 3. This should stop them from picking Nidalee, Jayce, Elise, anything difficult. Sad that I have but one ban.
Moon Mom (NA)
: as a side note, you can run ingenious hunter with a domination secondary setup for super low item cooldowns. It's quite lovely for support.
Alternatively, if you miss the sustain, ravenous hunter or taste of blood. Cheap shot if your poke brings some cc can replace/augment scorch.
borger (NA)
: so why was fizz buffed again
Cause they want Westdoor at worlds.
: Akali's Smoke Kills Counterplay
All Morg, all the time, every role. Puddle will tell you if she's on it though healing and cooldown.
: Welp now I'm angry. My start path involves {{item:3303}} {{item:2055}} {{item:2003}} where I can slap a pink in the opposite buff for my jungler. Now I don't even get a potion to compensate for the damage done to me when I'm in lane. OR Now I don't get to give my jungler an edge because I can't afford the potion AND the ward. I agree, 375 is very reasonable as a starting price, while allowing for alternate build paths.
Get ghost poro and set that for your jg. Better than a ward, you can reuse it.
Anin777 (EUW)
: If you're happy that there's more bot lane diversity, cool. But what happens to ADCs?
Stop pretending that each has only one build and adapt to the situation. If you take kog mid vs. Zed and try rushing rageblade and zerks you're going to feed and it's totally your fault. You can lane ok from 1-5, then back for a long sword, ruby and cloth before he can ult you. All the marksmen with dashes are ok in a solo lane, if maybe low on waveclear. Use the dash to dodge poke and engage instead of waiting for someone to cc them for you and dashing for the kill.
: grievous wounds didn't do much in our case anyway, the healing was still a lot not to mention the resistance items. do you know anybody that can really counter mundo?
Gnar that builds for the split push. The strong late game duelists. The real trick is beating him AND being more useful to your team. Mundo is strong right now, so that's tough. Maybe GP?
Rioter Comments
: Wasn't this exactly why Aatrox got a rework? Either he were completely useless, or he erased all enemies with Q + autos
No. Aatrox got reworked because no one played him or bought him or his skins despite a healthy win rate. But lots of people bought Riven stuff, so, Riven 2.0.
Rioter Comments
: That's due to the nature of the platform, and us not being able to own our own copy of the game. For Baseball all you need is a ball and a stick to hit it with, at it's minimum. You can get fancier and fancier as you get stuff that is actually made for the game, but none of that is really needed to just go out and play. Unfortunately a bunch of programming code doesn't have that sort of minimum, and you get an all or nothing result from it. Riot could go bankrupt, and League could get picked up by another company and continue. League could also fail, and Riot could make a new game, and continue on without League. Both are unlikely, but they demonstrate a separation between the two.
Gotten off topic, so I'll just say if Riot went under by the time the bankruptcy court ruled, League may not be profitable to continue. Especially if they don't save patches or if some politicians want to protect our trade from China. It's a Schrodinger level discussion at this point.
: Riot is a business, League of Legends is a game. The two are linked, but are not the same thing.
I can see where you're coming from, but I disagree. If Major league baseball ceased to be, the game of baseball would still be played. If Riot goes bankrupt, League of Legends may or may not continue.
Rioter Comments
Owl Puff (NA)
: How's top lane right now?
Morg. Legit 5 roler.
Rªre (NA)
: What is really good verse early game champions mid?
AsoL pushes hard. Also has the flight spell to roam or base and return.
: Average KDA 7/4/6 on Jhin (36% Win rate) "My teammates are holding me back" Change my mind please.
I have a couple questions. What do you do in the pregame? Do you talk to your team about composition? Imagine how lanes are going to go? Preplan teamfights? Optimise runes? Evaluate risk/reward for level 1s? You may be underutilizing your time. Do you scout during the load screen? Has that ever changed your level 1 buy? Do you understand what a Jhin pick does for/to your team? He has no dash/escape, no easy waveclear without using spells, and requires a lot of peel. Assassin mid, assassin mid and jg, splitpush top are all common comps and all bad for Jhin. Out of all the games you posted, loss #14 is the only good team(assuming you're not plat). In most of your teams you and your ult constitute the primary teamfight initiation. Are you starting the fights? In none of your games did you get a blue trinket. Idk if you can use it while channeling your ult (I don't really play Jhin), but a little extra vision at distance could help you hit the long range shots. Is it more important to you to win or to play Jhin? Assassin comps can be fine if they get ahead, and tend to do poorly if behind. The other team can siege you easily due to poor waveclear. Maybe learn Ziggs/Xerath/Morg or some other mage and give your team a backup plan in case the assassins falter early. How's this? Assuming balanced matchmaking (hear me out), each lane and the jungle have a 50/50 chance of getting ahead or behind. 4-0,3-1,2-2,1-3,0-4. It sounds like you're losing your 2-2 matches. So maybe put priority on early ocean and infernal drakes? Or focus your tower on cloud and mountain, then you make the swap to top lane and push their tower. When you have some downtime between waves, maybe try to predict the other team's map moves for the next wave or 2. If your jungler was just bot side and will be top for a couple minutes, try to pull the wave and send your support roaming. If they skirmished top, maybe shove the wave or even take a bad recall and get a defensive ward while returning. An extra 5 seconds of warning might let you back off the tower and avoid the double death.
: AP Junglers w/ Glacial Augment + Twin Shadows.
Glacial augment can be fine if you already have a way to close the gap. Ekko would probably do well with it. Spooky ghosts, not so much. You're telegraphing the gank as soon as they see the ghost(but you shouldn't be surprised by a counter gank). And you're building it instead of ap and cdr (if rushing), or zhonya's or lich bane or something else that's better. In a meta, or even just a game, where you need to think about your 3rd item, maybe. But it's still probably less important than deathcap. And laning is over before deathcap.
: Can anyone explain how replacing marksmen with fighters in the bot lane is diversity?
It's not diversity. It's bot lane diversity. As the slime of marksmen did spread across the map, now ye shall reap as ye have sewn. Crit adcs had the last year and then some. It's their turn in the dumpster.
: I remember running full M.Pen runes with Leona support to get my ADC 3 kills early game, every single game. Then building Sunfire and Thornmail to shut down the enemy carry late game. I was the only one doing that and had almost 70% winrate with Leona, now I just have one single build and one single Rune set I can use. Thank you rito.
> [{quoted}](name=WiegrafOfValor,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xEBUErGW,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2018-07-11T15:27:11.838+0000) > > I remember running full M.Pen runes with Leona support to get my ADC 3 kills early game, every single game. Then building Sunfire and Thornmail to shut down the enemy carry late game. > > I was the only one doing that and had almost 70% winrate with Leona, now I just have one single build and one single Rune set I can use. > > Thank you rito. Have you tried press the attack? E-auto-Q-auto-ignite. Sudden impact or ultimate hunter? Or do you go into resolve? If you only have one rune set, you're the problem.
japhib (NA)
: @Meddler, can Mundo get just one damage scaling?
MrHaZeYo (NA)
: > Diana swapping between hail of blades and aftershock or press the attack or lethal tempo. I like the way you think.
Thanks. :) Diana is a case in point of enabling variable champions by broadening synergies of item, kit and playstyle. There's basically 3 Dianas, right? Burst with lich bane, dps with rageblade and tank with abyssal mask. And they want 3 or 4 different keystones, but you can't know which until you see how the game is playing out. So I think there's a lot of value in the ability to solve this problem in game.
: Immensely broken & non-balanceable. This isn't being "tricky". It's more of abusing as much runes in 1 single game as possible.
Ahhhhhh, yeah, pretty much. It's also going down a summoner. And that's where it tickles. Regular, reliable burst effect of a summoner or higher baseline efficiency if you planned well. Increased skill cap. Is the assassin giving up ignite? Flash? Is the mage giving up exhaust, tp or barrier? Does an ad player think fleet footwork and the 2 from resolve can get me to 2 items and after that, I'll.... From a player perspective, you can have a setup to get you through a disadvantaged lane without compromising your late game, or between postures. From a design perspective, it creates a rough translation between the guns and butter or runes and summoners.
Rioter Comments
: Relying on camping and ganking for gold and experience leeches those resources from laners, putting your team behind if you aren't 100% successful. It is significantly more efficient for the jungler to be able to reliably clear jungle camps in order to gain their own gold and experience, and being able to do so quickly means they are able to apply and relieve pressure on lanes. You're right that there are only a handful of AP (non-tank) junglers, .. I would add Diana, Ekko, and Nidalee to the list, .. and I think it is honestly sad that they are at such a huge disadvantage in the meta.
Yes, it does take gold and xp from your laners. It's also more team xp efficient for lane creeps. 1 person can get 100% xp or 2 people can get 70%. The laners can/should/will anyway take a camp and usually a buff on the way to wherever. The thing about ap junglers is they are all pretty oppressive when ahead and useless when behind. And they need to get ahead or they'll get outscaled by the ad. So I think hard-carry-or-else is a fine outcome for the champions. It's finding a team composition that makes them an appropriate choice that's rare right now.
: I actually really like that strategy. It is smart, .. but this is still adding to a lot of strength that can't really be matched by non-AD junglers. Honestly, a large portion of junglers are AD to start with, but I don't believe the significant power gap is really what Riot wants.
Non ad junglers are tanks, evelynn and Elise. So eve and Elise both play more like a camp and a gank and an objective or back than a clear and something. I think that playstyle is what riot wants, because competitive jungle clearing is kinda boring and solvable(where the solutions lead to static team compositions). Also, runic shittyness is a terrible item.
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Chumpzi11a

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