Onotori (NA)
: My first month of playing League, I was in gold, and I was playing against plats and winning (and gold is what, the top 20%?). So... I donno about that.
Gold isn't even the top 50%, the top 20% are plat, and it goes on from there. Anything below diamond is basically anyones game based on luck an basic knowledge. I was in gold a couple times too, it's really just a matter of getting good enough runs in silver to climb without getting shredded.
Onotori (NA)
: I mean I've played against and beat people of every rank in every role, so... Once you learn how to play the game, you can play any champ and/or role pretty easily. League isn't exactly complex.
First lets be very clear, league is extremely complex. Learning how a champion works is in itself not too hard but knowing how everyone else works and how to play with people the right way takes years to master properly. Second how far have you gotten in ranked? Because it takes a very VERY skilled person to get in to the top %.
: Yeah that’s not the case, I’ve climbed out of silver on 3 accounts with relative ease and I’m only mid gold on my highest one. If he’s Diamond and found Silver hard to climb out of, he’s either boosted or picking champs that can’t carry.
Dude he's saying that this year silver is way harder than any other year. And he's right, at no other time could 1 player cost you the game every time. But right now they can and do.
Onotori (NA)
: No that's not the point. As a fill main you climb 1/5th as fast as anyone else, and you're basically punished for not one tricking a role.
That's not what's happening at all, as a fill you're playing a LOT of different champs, you're dividing your attention too much to be amazing at any 1 thing. Out of the top people in the world how many do you know that fill? There's a reason for why people stick to 1 or 2 roles max, it's the dedication required to become good enough to climb.
: Theres no incentive to play this game anymore... BE system killed everything
BE system was only ever part of the problem, there are a lot of issues outside of that with this game that have murdered the fun in it.
Onotori (NA)
: @Riot -- How do you plan on compensating fill players?
Yea I don't understand what your question is. If you're a fill main that says that you play ever role, so why would you be compensated? You're not losing anything. If you can't climb than the reason is probably because you're a fill main and instead of focusing on a role and getting better at it you're just trying to be a jack of all trades and mastering none.
: Anyone Who Cannot Beat/Deal With Silver Zed Should Not Be Taken Seriously On Assassin Balance
There was very recently a diamond player that wrote about how unbelievably hard silver is this season, he said it's actually harder than diamond because at least in diamond most people semi know what to do, but in silver you just have to pray for a team that's not a complete trash heap. So honestly it doesn't matter if they don't know how to deal with zed silver or zed diamond, the difference isn't in rankings it's in knowing how to deal with zed in general.
: Toxicity is not part of any competitive gaming, and **toxicity really shouldn't be part of anything.** People who are truly good at this game avoid toxicity at all costs (feat. why faker never really uses the chat function). Competitive does not, and should not mean toxicity. Losing toxic player base is what the League community actually wants. People play to have fun, use their brains in competitive ways, not curse at each other and ruin the day.
You just said that like because some people aren't toxic that means everyone isn't toxic. Toxicity is as much a part of gaming as none toxicity is. Just because something shouldn't be part of gaming doesn't mean it isn't. There will always be toxic people just like there will always be none toxic people. And the removing chat argument is something I've told the DEVs quite a few times including on this post so we agree there. And I agree with you in an ideal world people wouldn't curse or tilt or be toxic, but it does happen a lot in this game. And if you think it doesn't keep playing, you'll see, I'm not lying.
Chermorg (NA)
: I really hope Tantram comes back to respond again to you... but I love how you're telling the person who coded the systems and literally can see how many times you've been reported - I love how you're telling him that you know better than him. You keep saying things like "good chunk of the community" - it's not - it's a very small minority. You say "every single time I get reported by 2+ people..." - but that's not how it works - it literally isn't coded that way. You say "find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity" - that doesn't mean that it **should** be that way. How about you find me a game studio that doesn't have any sort of punishments for toxicity? Come on man. The stats, off the top of my head, were something along the lines of less than 10% of players ever get a chat restriction, and less than 10% of those punished at any given level ever get another punishment. Hopefully Tantram can bring back better numbers - because I can't find my link that had them.
> [{quoted}](name=EvilDustMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000000100000001000200000005,timestamp=2018-04-24T22:50:55.151+0000) > > Where are your numbers and statistics showing more than 5% of the games population are getting punished. I'm so glad you asked, I told the people exactly how to see that, search "banned" in the community window, now compare the number of reports this last season, to every previous season, and bare in mind this season is about half way through. And is still monstrously higher than the number of banned reports any other season.
Chermorg (NA)
: I really hope Tantram comes back to respond again to you... but I love how you're telling the person who coded the systems and literally can see how many times you've been reported - I love how you're telling him that you know better than him. You keep saying things like "good chunk of the community" - it's not - it's a very small minority. You say "every single time I get reported by 2+ people..." - but that's not how it works - it literally isn't coded that way. You say "find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity" - that doesn't mean that it **should** be that way. How about you find me a game studio that doesn't have any sort of punishments for toxicity? Come on man. The stats, off the top of my head, were something along the lines of less than 10% of players ever get a chat restriction, and less than 10% of those punished at any given level ever get another punishment. Hopefully Tantram can bring back better numbers - because I can't find my link that had them.
> [{quoted}](name=LongHair Fox,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000000100000001000200000004,timestamp=2018-04-24T22:47:14.049+0000) > > Any competetive game you say? Well let's take the largest one then: football, (or maybe you would know it as soccer). If you tell a teammate or opponent to kill them selves in a professional game, you either get a large fine, get a red card or possibly fired depending on how big of a name you are. In casual football or semi professional games you will almost always get thrown out of the team. If you are repeatedly fronting opponent players and griefing referee decisions you get a yellow card followed by a red card and possible suspension from a number of games. > Video games have only recently become online and although there is toxicity there is no reason they cannot follow the same standards normal sports do. And yet in football people get in fights, they do get in each others faces, they do swear at each other. So if you were trying to prove my point for me well done, you just did.
Chermorg (NA)
: I really hope Tantram comes back to respond again to you... but I love how you're telling the person who coded the systems and literally can see how many times you've been reported - I love how you're telling him that you know better than him. You keep saying things like "good chunk of the community" - it's not - it's a very small minority. You say "every single time I get reported by 2+ people..." - but that's not how it works - it literally isn't coded that way. You say "find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity" - that doesn't mean that it **should** be that way. How about you find me a game studio that doesn't have any sort of punishments for toxicity? Come on man. The stats, off the top of my head, were something along the lines of less than 10% of players ever get a chat restriction, and less than 10% of those punished at any given level ever get another punishment. Hopefully Tantram can bring back better numbers - because I can't find my link that had them.
And yet in football people get in fights, they do get in each others faces, they do swear at each other. So if you were trying to prove my point for me well done, you just did.
Jaghatai (NA)
: Wow - LOL - you must not have actually played during Tribunal. My goodness the daily complaints about "Tribunal is a menace!" "Can't this just be automated" "How dare you let other players decide my fate!" ... I did tribunal. I saw the constant complaints. You can't 'grass is greener' that stuff now.
Not only did I play during tribunal, I was actively voting on tons of reports daily, because I believed that system to be the closest thing to "fair" that we were gonna get, and honestly I still believe out of all the systems they've had that one was the most fair. Which is not to say that it was great, because it wasn't you're right about that. But it was better than bots, by miles.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=000000000000000100000000000000000003000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T22:38:23.561+0000) > > And every season they were right to a degree, but the increase has been exponential this season. Because in the other seasons at least it was reviewed by people who sometimes(rarely but sometimes) understood the difference between defending yourself and being flat out toxic. Now bots just consider everything you say toxic and call it a day regardless of context, which is further shown by the fact that they only link YOUR side of the log in restrictions/bans. Except that's wrong. Plenty of people who don't get banned or even get punished. Man, when I played regularly, I loved shouting my get dunked as Veigar every time I deleted someone. Or :D every time someone died to a shroom on Teemo. And I've never got a chat restriction. Don't buy into an argument with another player, don't start shit about how they are playing, you aren't in their situation, mute report and move on. And no, it doesn't tally reports, you are being repeatedly told that only one report counts and invalid reports are being thrown out. At this point, you are sticking your fingers in your ears and going "lalalalalalala" and that's no way to live.
The people telling me that 1 report equals 9 are toting the party line. And the reason I say that is because I have first hand knowledge that proves that it's not that way. I've personally been restricted 3x by not 1 report but only when groups of people reported. Which is definitive proof that if it were in fact 1 = 9 I would have been restricted multiple times by just 1 report, yet every time there's 1 report there is no penalty. Your problem is that you're buying what riot is selling because it's riot who's selling it. And I'm telling you that 1 = 9 reports thing is bullshit. That's inaccurate and incorrect.
: Thousands in a game with over 100 million active players? Even if your numbers were true, that still isn't even 1%.
Read it again, there aren't over 100 million active players, there are over 100 million PLAYED. Now you might be wondering what the difference is, here's the difference, Much like world of warcraft there is a stark difference between the amount of people that have tried this game and not kept playing it to the amount that have continuously played it and keep playing it and I assure you it's nowhere near 100 million. Kind of like when blizzard said they have 12 million subs but their advertisements read "over 100 million played". Because at one point 100 million people did create accounts and try the game, but a whole lot of them didn't like the game or just like another one better.
Chermorg (NA)
: I really hope Tantram comes back to respond again to you... but I love how you're telling the person who coded the systems and literally can see how many times you've been reported - I love how you're telling him that you know better than him. You keep saying things like "good chunk of the community" - it's not - it's a very small minority. You say "every single time I get reported by 2+ people..." - but that's not how it works - it literally isn't coded that way. You say "find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity" - that doesn't mean that it **should** be that way. How about you find me a game studio that doesn't have any sort of punishments for toxicity? Come on man. The stats, off the top of my head, were something along the lines of less than 10% of players ever get a chat restriction, and less than 10% of those punished at any given level ever get another punishment. Hopefully Tantram can bring back better numbers - because I can't find my link that had them.
I've been told a lot of things, being told and being shows are completely different things. I remember reading an article about a riot support guy getting fired because he was supremely toxic. So Just because you guys say something doesn't automatically make it true, and without 1 shred of proof I'm sorry but I'm not going to just take your word for it. As where I have demonstrated that I'm seeing bans based on a specific reporting style. You guys keep preaching about numbers of players and how it's only a small amount of player base that gets banned but is there a statistic or chart somewhere that proves that or are you just assuming them?
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2018-04-24T22:27:11.033+0000) > > And yet with the huge amount of people getting punished and banned your assumption is wrong, it very much so is abusable and purely because there are bots doing the banning and not people. a rioter literally just proved u wrong tho, like he just said it auto-bans don't happen unless it's consistent 1 report is the same as 9 like where are you even gettin this information from by what statistic are people gettin banned on mass lmao this game has some of the biggest playerbases today and remains one of the most popular with no end in sight
He didn't prove me wrong, he made a statement backed up by exactly 0 facts, I made statements backed up by reasonable explanations and videos. Him saying something that riot has been trying to preach for a while without any proof what so ever doesn't make it gospel. You want to see how many people are getting banned just go into search on forums and type in "banned", watch how many threads come up, and if you want to see how many more there are just take samples from 1 week, 1 month, 1 year. You'll see that the reports of being banned have gone up exponentially this last season since the institution of autobot banning. This game does have a big playerbase but it's driving a lot of it away with these tactics.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=0000000000000001000000000000000000030000,timestamp=2018-04-24T22:25:47.570+0000) > > No I understand perfectly well what the vocal minority means, what I'm saying is that's not the case anymore. It was the case in previous seasons but it isn't the case NOW. We went from the vocal minority to the standard. This isn't a small group of players anymore, it's a huge group of players, which is why it's a problem. When it was people doing the banning it was a small group of players, but since bots are doing the banning it's become a huge issue. Except, that's what they say every season. Every single season, someone like you comes saying the same thing.
And every season they were right to a degree, but the increase has been exponential this season. Because in the other seasons at least it was reviewed by people who sometimes(rarely but sometimes) understood the difference between defending yourself and being flat out toxic. Now bots just consider everything you say toxic and call it a day regardless of context, which is further shown by the fact that they only link YOUR side of the log in restrictions/bans.
Chermorg (NA)
: I really hope Tantram comes back to respond again to you... but I love how you're telling the person who coded the systems and literally can see how many times you've been reported - I love how you're telling him that you know better than him. You keep saying things like "good chunk of the community" - it's not - it's a very small minority. You say "every single time I get reported by 2+ people..." - but that's not how it works - it literally isn't coded that way. You say "find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity" - that doesn't mean that it **should** be that way. How about you find me a game studio that doesn't have any sort of punishments for toxicity? Come on man. The stats, off the top of my head, were something along the lines of less than 10% of players ever get a chat restriction, and less than 10% of those punished at any given level ever get another punishment. Hopefully Tantram can bring back better numbers - because I can't find my link that had them.
If you're sure you're right than tell me exactly how the banning system works, because if it works based on a amount of reports over time than by design when you get reported by a group of people over 1 people you would automatically get hit with a punishment right than and there. Because purely by math if you've had any regular reports before and a group reports you than you automatically get enough strikes against you to get a punishment proving my version of events correct. On the other hand if you're saying that 1 report or 9 is the same in every game than that would mean after X amount of reports even 1 report will get you restricted/banned and if that were the case than most restrictions would stem from 1 report in the game, yet every single time I've ever been restricted or banned it's always been a group report not 1. So it doesn't make any sense. Now as far as toxicity is concerned yes many studios have ways of dealing with toxicity, however you'll find the ones that deal with it harshly(ban players, lock out accounts whatnot) usually lose more than they gain. You want to know the best way of dealing with toxicity? Put the mute button in the game, and make sure everyone knows it can be used but DO NOT BAN OR PUNISH PEOPLE. Sounds counter-intuitive right? Here's the thing though, people who dealt with toxicity by muting people before will keep doing it via that method, and people that wanted to scream at each other back and forth will do that. A lot less people leave a game because of a toxic community than they do from getting accounts banned. So in the end for ever 10 people you lose from account banning you only lose 1 to toxicity quitting. And if you're thinking "well that won't improve our toxic community". News flash there is no such thing as a none toxic community in ANY competitive game, there never has been, and never will be. A game is like school, you will always have a certain degree of douchebaggery, but can you imagine what would happen if everyone someone acted out they got thrown out of school? You'd have 4 well behaved children and 200 teachers left.
: uh no, you actually just have to be super retarded to get banned the ban system isn't nearly as abusable as people assume it is
And yet with the huge amount of people getting punished and banned your assumption is wrong, it very much so is abusable and purely because there are bots doing the banning and not people.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:39:38.794+0000) > > My point exactly, and when the most vocal part of the boards is screaming "STOP BANNING US!" it's a clear indication of a serious problem. Season 2, 3, 4, and 5, it wasn't that bad we had tribunals and the like and yea of course there were some restrictions and some bans but it was a very VERY small part. The last couple season though they instituted autobanning and now people get banned left and right, that's a real issue, it makes the game lackluster. > > Here's what you think will happen "all the toxic people will get banned and the game will have an improved community". Here's what's actually happening "all of the toxic people are finding partners and clans and then group reporting people that they troll all game and getting them autobanned since bots don't distinguish whats actual toxicity and what's just a group of dicks reporting because they're in a clan". End result? The game will have just as toxic if not a more toxic community but the people who actually enjoyed playing this game will quit and play something else where they don't get banned by toxic idiots. You seem to misunderstand what vocal minority means. You are the loudest, but a minority. There are many posts because you complain about the system, but you are in the minority. You aren't some massive portion of the player base being oppressed, you are .05% of the player base. Mind you, that's still a lot of people, hundreds of thousands. But you aren't the core players. You are the annoying outsiders who won't grow up.
No I understand perfectly well what the vocal minority means, what I'm saying is that's not the case anymore. It was the case in previous seasons but it isn't the case NOW. We went from the vocal minority to the standard. This isn't a small group of players anymore, it's a huge group of players, which is why it's a problem. When it was people doing the banning it was a small group of players, but since bots are doing the banning it's become a huge issue.
: > Nope, not trolling, you guys legit have this problem. Sorry, I honestly thought this was a troll post, because of some of the things that were said. > My point exactly, and when the most vocal part of the boards is screaming "STOP BANNING US!" it's a clear indication of a serious problem. You are on a small, purpose built forum, where people are supposed to talk about their penalties. People who are penalized, generally don't want to have a penalty. We perma-ban people when they reach a point that they are not going to change their behavior. These are the people that fail to understand their behavior is unacceptable after numerous penalties. > The last couple season though they instituted autobanning and now people get banned left and right, that's a real issue, it makes the game lackluster. I fail to understand how banning people makes a game lackluster. > Here's what's actually happening "all of the toxic people are finding partners and clans and then group reporting people that they troll all game and getting them autobanned since bots don't distinguish whats actual toxicity and what's just a group of dicks reporting because they're in a clan". 'Ganging up on' someone via reports doesn't do anything. 1 report is the same as 9. More reports does not increase the chance of a game being reviewed. All it takes is a single report. > I'm literally saying that toxicity is part of any competitive gaming, always has been, always will be. I am literally saying this is not true. A small group of people may have been unsportsmanlike, but the majority are fed up with this behavior. It will not be tolerated. If that's your idea of fun then we don't want you here. Go play another game. Good luck finding another game studio that doesn't feel the same way. > It's very simple, this game has a giant player base, unfortunately since even farting in someones general direction gets your account suspended and then banned these days... The vast majority of player never receive any type of penalty. Of those that do, they only receive one. Of those that got one, most never receive another .. and so it goes. If you are getting penalized, you are in a very very very small group. If you are getting penalized over and over .. you are the 'unsportsmanlike elite'. > there is literally 0 reason to invest a dime in any skins in this game. I agree. This game is free to play. You don't need to invest a dime. If you want to though, feel free. I have a few skins I love. > Now of course you can be none toxic and good for you if you are, however a majority of the people are people, people react to other people acting like dicks No. The majority do not. Not even a minority. A very very small minority. The perception problem is that there are 10 players in each game. So one unsportsmanlike player ruins the game for 9 other people. Add negativity bias to this and it compounds. > So riot has literally killed their own game with their own autoban system. Actually, unsportsmanlike people kill the game. By removing them from the game it becomes more enjoyable, which increases player retention.
I'll address your points 1 at a time since there seem to be a lot of them. 1) This being a small purpose built forum is actually in itself a problem, I was told once by a mod that there is a reddit forum too and yet I had no idea that it even existed before he told me as it's not really advertised anywhere visible. More importantly this forum is the main place for us to speak because it's the most visible place we know that directly relates to the game. Second on this very same topic, is that you guys ban over stuff that isn't immensely bad behavior and I wish I could tell you that it is but most of the time you ban people for simply defending their position, not even in a toxic profane way, just basic defending. And I've heard that "you shouldn't defend yourself just mute them", but you know what you guys put a chat into the game and then punish people for using it? 2) The game becomes lackluster when you ban and punish a good chunk of the community for having a few douches on a the team who endlessly troll and flame, it would be nice if the douches are the ones that get punished but most of the time they just gang up and tilt someone on the team and that person is the one that gets punished. So yea completely lackluster. 3) You say 1 report is like 9 but I can tell you for a fact that I've been reported by 1 person in multiple games and very rarely does that actually do anything however every single time I get reported by 2+ people of the same clan in any game I immediately have a punishment or ban. So you're flat out wrong about that one. 4) You think toxicity isn't part of competitive gaming? I dare you to find me a competitive game that has chat and doesn't have toxicity, please, I'll wait. Some of the top ranked people in the world have gotten banned for toxicity, and you think it isn't part of gaming? Come on man. I'd love to see the stats on the "small amount of people receive 1 penalty and never another one". 5) final point I know this game is free to play, and I know that you don't need to invest a dime but what I'm saying is I had no problem investing money in a game that was worth playing without getting banned every other month, but I personally and everyone I've talked to wouldn't even consider spending money on a game that bans people left and right.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=000000000000000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T20:07:36.761+0000) > > The issue is that your "current punishment system" does nothing. Here's what you said the 2 goals are as follows. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > Banning them by definition doesn't help them reform, and they just make new accounts 10 seconds later so you're not actually shielding anyone from anything. Which means both the objectives you're attempting to accomplish never occur. I understand if your system worked but it doesn't. So what I'm saying is your current system is simply dividing the player base into trolls and the abused and making the abused quit while trolls keep going on. Not everyone makes a new account when they get permabanned, but those that do either go on to be respectful members of the community or continue to get their accounts permabanned for continued poor behavior-it all depends on the player themselves and what they decide to do after getting permabanned. It's also important to note that Riot gives people multiple chances to reform before permabanning them. The line has to be drawn somewhere though and Riot has decided that 4 (or 2 in extreme cases) is the magic number here. > Now if that's what you're aiming for by all means continue. I don't see how that's a sustainable model but that's entirely up to you. On the other hand if you want a game that actually plays and is worth investing money in again stop banning people, take chat out entirely, in the game, leave pings and markers but there is absolutely no reason for chat anymore other than to make people troll. And before you say "well people need to communicate" look at the top players, they don't ever use chat, they either use voice chat or ping, and that's literally the best and should be the only way in game. By leaving chat in you're taking a game that's already competitive and tough and introducing an element of extreme toxicity possibility which is exactly why we're having this conversation now. No, once you remove one aspect of griefing the griefers will just switch to another form of griefing instead. This is exactly what happened with the permamute system: players who couldn't be Vickys* in chat instead switched to trolling and inting, two things that are harder to detect and prove intent for than simple chat-related offenses. Riot is not gonna remove a feature from the game just because a jerk would use it to ruin the experience of other players, they'll just remove the jerk instead. Many people are able to use chat and pings for communication and in the case of chat sometimes other neutral or positive purposes (myself being one such example), so as far as I'm concerned it's a problem with the immature players and not the chat or ping functions themselves. As far as the whole money argument is concerned to quote [Kei143](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/mmh6PidR-the-dreaded-downvoteers-in-this-discussion-board?comment=0001000100000000000100000004): >When Riot permabans someone, their philosophy is "the chances of this guy reforming isn't a whole lot, we'd rather not have him in the game". Thus in their eyes, they have already written off the toxic player as a paying client. >From a business standpoint, do they want to remove the toxic guy who has spent $500 but is causing a negative environment for 4-9 other players in every game? Those non-toxics are also spending $500 and probably will spend more, promote the game more when they are enjoying the game AND they won't cause a negative environment. >I personally think it is a fine argument to protect the ones that are paying money and aren't toxic rather than protecting the ones that may pay the same amount but are toxic. *Vicky is a character from The FairlyOdd Parents who thrives on the misery of others.
I wish anything that you have said was true but here's what actually happens. Most people that get banned either quit(the minority) or make new accounts(the majority). Now you would think that they become reformed, but they don't they just end up playing exactly the way they used to play just lower elo until they get banned again and again and again. You might think this happens a lot less now because they know they're gonna get banned but it actually doesn't. As you can see this account is relatively lower ranked and most of the people I play with are smurfs and or new accounts, in every game where someone talks about banned accounts I have no less than 3 people who all say things like "yea I've had 3 accounts banned". So in reality it's not improving anything, it's just bundling all of the banned accounts in lower elo until they get back to higher elo(if they get back that far). However what it is doing is making people very seriously hate the way your autoban system works. However I dare you to ask ANY player that's been banned more than once if they would ever even consider spending a dime on this game again, you'll see what the answer is. So like I said you don't have to listen to me, or believe me, but this is a fair warning about the state of the game and the system and why so many people are so unhappy with it.
Raistlin (EUNE)
: Dont let the downvotes get to you, a chunk of the active people on these forums are immature and prejudiced towards - their favorite game is good and everyone who thinks otherwise must be mistaken :) While i do not agree with some points you said, i do realise current report system is easily manipulated and worked around with the subtle toxicity being the core of the issue. The real pvp in this game is chat window. Should be other way around. And toxic player should have smarter ways of reforming, current system is just plain bad. Loot linking to honor and dependant on amount of games makes most toxic players constantly move on to new accounts. With the ones who reformed finding new ways to trigger others, ways which go unnoticed by report system. And I mean What happened to honoring your opponents and stuff like that :) the good times.
Exactly, this reporting system is flat out bad, it's used to abuse players instead of help them improve or fix bad behavior. What ends up happening most of the time is you get a duo, they are either really toxic or just plain bad and of course the game falls apart either when they tilt someone of when they feed and start blaming other people. However at the end of the game since they are duo they both report 1 person, and that 1 person gets restricted and/or banned for getting reported by multiple people.
: >It isn't taking a single example, it shows you the most relevant example. So relevant that you admitted to picking an example before the system existed. As for your latest video; That **STILL** isn't an example of the game only using reports to ban someone. It's an example of the system mistakenly judging their score along with reports to be intentionally feeding. Which kinda goes to show that detecting intentionally feeding players is rough to do automatically since it's easy to get someone caught in the crossfire. And in case you didn't notice the top comment on the youtube video, Riot reversed the ban.
You're using riot reversing the ban as a point of reference when the thing you should have noticed is that he got banned in the first place because of autobot banning. Which is the entire point of this thread. People weren't perfect in the tribunal by any means but they were A LOT better than bots doing this job and banning based on score or reports, which is exactly what's happening now.
: There's thousands of people complaining about being banned because no one likes to be punished. If you ask prison inmates how they feel about the justice system, you'll see a lot more people complaining about it too. While the system suffers from a number of issues, like catering to the vocal minority. (e.g. if one person has a negative experience every game you play in but 8 people have a positive one you'll still be banned despite overall making the community experience better). And perma banning being useless as a punishment because it just shifts players into the low level community. And while I don't personally agree with riot taking on the responsibility of moral gaurdians and treating their player base like children who need to be punished for saying bad words, their system has reduced the number of gameplay related trolls like griefers, afkers, and rage quitters. So I think it's a net positive.
I would very much be interested in seeing what game you're playing where there are less griefers, afkers, and rage quitters. Because in my experience in normal games you get at least 2 of the 3 every 2-3 game. And in ranked you get them at a rate of 1 in 3. On the other part where you say there are thousands of people because they don't like to be punished that's only partially true, there are thousands of people because they don't like to be punished UNFAIRLY. But that's exactly what happens when you have a bot system dispensing the punishment rather than actual people.
: >And now for the kicker, this all happen BEFORE the autobot ban system Wait one moment. Your proof that the autoban system only takes reports is a single example out of millions of players **before** the autoban system? I don't suppose you want to try again?
It isn't taking a single example, it shows you the most relevant example. But you asked me to link another video so here it is, this guy got autoban suspended for "feeding" even though he did everything right in the game within the amount that it could have been done. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aOfAT74x2Ls&t=8s
RallerenP (EUW)
: Who'd have known that a system designed to get rid of toxic players, got rid of toxic players? Insane.
Except it doesn't get rid of toxic player, read the actual information. It gets rid of the people being flamed, not the people doing the flaming, so it in fact leaves the toxic players.
Raistlin (EUNE)
: Immature players like you who spam emotes, abuse skills to kill teammates, write in a mocking manner "Good Job" or "Well Done" whenever someone makes even slight mistakes is the reason why you will remain in the perpetual flame-blame circle.
I'm not sure who you're talking to but you don't even know me, so you're literally just here expressing your toxicity for no reason other than to be toxic. I never spam any emotes, in fact I tell people to ping once as to make the game easier to see. when I say nj I mean nice job, because they killed someone, or did something resulting in a kill of someone. It sounds to me like you're really bitter about your own gaming.
: >The chat does not affect the gameplay, because it is a fact. The chat doesn't affect the gameplay *directly*. It most certainly affects the people and their desire to work with you, which does affect the gameplay.
Than why are you here?
Raistlin (EUNE)
: Community quality here is like mainstream pop music. Well, most of it at least, there are always rare exceptions.
Those rare exceptions happen to be people that are level headed and bring a real discussion to the table instead of just down voting and berating people.
: >My point exactly, and when the most vocal part of the boards is screaming "STOP BANNING US!" it's a clear indication of a serious problem. That's completely contrary to your point. This portion of the boards has people screaming "STOP BANNING US" because it's the section of the boards where people go to see why they're banned. There's very little reason for people to come to this board otherwise, so you're not getting an accurate representation of the average player. >Here's what's actually happening "all of the toxic people are finding partners and clans and then group reporting people that they troll all game and getting them autobanned since bots don't distinguish whats actual toxicity and what's just a group of dicks reporting because they're in a clan". Except it doesn't matter how many times you get reported if you don't have poor behavior to get yourself punished.
You sir are 100% incorrect. And I can prove that too, there was a singed who was one of the top singed in the world, he however wouldn't play top, he played support. And before every game he would explain to his team exactly how he would play so they would know that he would not be in lane that much. He got reported so much that he was near permabanned. Now here are some things you should know about him. He didn't feed, he had one of the highest win rates in the game, and he had excellent communication. Yet still the act of being reported by so many people just for playing differently is what got him near banned. And punished A LOT. So no, you don't have to have "poor behavior" to get punished and or banned. And now for the kicker, this all happen BEFORE the autobot ban system, so even back than when it was exceptionally hard to get banned he STILL got reported into oblivion. And if you want proof of this I'll link the video detailing his entire case https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3C4-pnMiGc
: There isn't any issue. Your experience isn't shared by anyone else. I guarantee youre getting banned for being toxic af. You have to be pretty fucking bad to get banned in this game
If that were true there wouldn't be thousands of threads about being banned. So in fact my experience is shared by many other people. I know that you're just talking for the sake of talking but you really should research the things you say before you say them.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Ph03n1xdust,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:02:14.763+0000) > > But why? If they start trolling IFS bans them. IF they don't do it, then there is no problem. From [Riot Tantram:](https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/wsObUaFj-if-tyler1?comment=00010001000000000000) > It really breaks down into two categories. > > 1.) Helping players reform > 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. > > We used to issue chat restrictions that essentially scaled indefinitely. > > We were able to determine that after a certain point the penalty no longer helped with reform. The 10-game and 25-game counts for chat restrictions are based on data that they were both light enough, and felt strict enough to encourage people to understand their behavior is unacceptable in game and change it. > > We also saw that the players in this 'large restriction' category defaulted to gameplay altering means of harassing their team. It caused an increase in feeding and trolling. > > The sample size of this population and time frame is huge. Essentially the time spanning from the introduction of chat restrictions to the introduction of IFS. > > So my question for you is, would you rather have more feeders and less negative chat? If someone isn't gonna interact with others in a mature and respectful manner despite getting multiple chances to do so then why shouldn't they be removed from the community? You can keep trying to argue for it all you want but the fact is that Riot tried it and it didn't work, which is why they scrapped it and introduced the IFS instead. The line has to be drawn somewhere and just like with Jhin 4 seems to work fine at this moment in time. Is the system perfect? No. Does it still need work? Yes. Does it do it's job pretty well currently? Depending on who you ask yes. If you want to suggest a better punishment system then I would suggest you try suggesting one that Riot hasn't already tried before.
The issue is that your "current punishment system" does nothing. Here's what you said the 2 goals are as follows. 1.) Helping players reform 2.) Shielding others from the behavior, at a cost. Banning them by definition doesn't help them reform, and they just make new accounts 10 seconds later so you're not actually shielding anyone from anything. Which means both the objectives you're attempting to accomplish never occur. I understand if your system worked but it doesn't. So what I'm saying is your current system is simply dividing the player base into trolls and the abused and making the abused quit while trolls keep going on. Now if that's what you're aiming for by all means continue. I don't see how that's a sustainable model but that's entirely up to you. On the other hand if you want a game that actually plays and is worth investing money in again stop banning people, take chat out entirely, in the game, leave pings and markers but there is absolutely no reason for chat anymore other than to make people troll. And before you say "well people need to communicate" look at the top players, they don't ever use chat, they either use voice chat or ping, and that's literally the best and should be the only way in game. By leaving chat in you're taking a game that's already competitive and tough and introducing an element of extreme toxicity possibility which is exactly why we're having this conversation now.
: I really can't tell if you're trolling or not.
Nope, not trolling, you guys legit have this problem. However jumping in here and acting like you're surprised or just ignorant of it is exactly my point. You guys have never fixed this issue and it is a major issue.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T19:07:02.761+0000) > > That's an untrue stat not based in reality. Riot have always claimed it was a small number but they are liars, and I can prove it, check out how many threads there are about literally this very topic since the last season. They have stepped it up to the point where I would be supremely amazed if at least 20% weren't in this category. Uhhh. Boards are never an accurate cross section of any community, just the most vocal minorities.
My point exactly, and when the most vocal part of the boards is screaming "STOP BANNING US!" it's a clear indication of a serious problem. Season 2, 3, 4, and 5, it wasn't that bad we had tribunals and the like and yea of course there were some restrictions and some bans but it was a very VERY small part. The last couple season though they instituted autobanning and now people get banned left and right, that's a real issue, it makes the game lackluster. Here's what you think will happen "all the toxic people will get banned and the game will have an improved community". Here's what's actually happening "all of the toxic people are finding partners and clans and then group reporting people that they troll all game and getting them autobanned since bots don't distinguish whats actual toxicity and what's just a group of dicks reporting because they're in a clan". End result? The game will have just as toxic if not a more toxic community but the people who actually enjoyed playing this game will quit and play something else where they don't get banned by toxic idiots.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=0000000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-24T18:31:31.810+0000) > > I'm literally saying that toxicity is part of any competitive gaming, always has been, always will be. And if you ban/restrict people for it in the most competitive gaming environment in the world than you're going to lose your playerbase, because that's how reality works. The punishment rate for a chat restriction is 5%. Now mind you, that is one person on your team every 4 games. So confirmation bias, if you play a ton of games, yea, it's going to feel that way. But the fact is, toxic people are in the minority since a punishment system started. And guess what. Maybe the people who actually started the multiplayer world are getting tired and realizing all the yappy annoying people make games less fun to play.
That's an untrue stat not based in reality. Riot have always claimed it was a small number but they are liars, and I can prove it, check out how many threads there are about literally this very topic since the last season. They have stepped it up to the point where I would be supremely amazed if at least 20% weren't in this category.
9 X (NA)
: Now if we could just lose "people" like you, all would be right in the world. This sort of overzealous hypocritical garbage is part of why the game has become so bad. There is reason behind his actions, you, you're just being a dick and pouring gasoline on the fire.
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=HALtvP5a,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-04-24T09:00:22.636+0000) > > Thank you for proving my point. Enter case and point, another dumpster fire toxic player who just couldn't help himself but pile on. You literally saying that Riot should allow people to be toxic here. That is as toxic as toxic can get. So I would agree with person you replied to, if system makes you leave, because you can't play without being toxic, it works as intended.
I'm literally saying that toxicity is part of any competitive gaming, always has been, always will be. And if you ban/restrict people for it in the most competitive gaming environment in the world than you're going to lose your playerbase, because that's how reality works. But here's where it gets really interesting, apparently riot CAN be toxic, but if players are toxic they get banned. Riots own support have been caught being toxic with no repercussions, and yet if a player does it they get banned. Also right now they completely changed what being toxic means. It's one thing to swear and tilt none stop, it's another to defend yourself in a reasonable manner and still be banned. They don't care about making this about proper toxicity being banned, they just ban anyone who gets enough reports in 1 game regardless.
9 X (NA)
: Yeah I'm not going to trust the account of a company that relies on player vote and an automated ban bot to pretend like they're actually doing anything worthwhile to combat malcontents, like at all. Not when the game experience is highly indicative they have done nothing worthwhile to combat malcontents, like at all.
Exactly, this company is completely unreliable not to mention they just keep changing everything season to season which makes it a poor investment at best.
Jamaree (NA)
: Does that mean you are leaving? Sweet, the system works then, another toxic player gone.
Thank you for proving my point. Enter case and point, another dumpster fire toxic player who just couldn't help himself but pile on.
  Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1jG3A8Rf,comment-id=0022000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-17T18:02:55.385+0000) > > Actually it was a lot less broken, the champs were just as broken however the difference was that back then you could see they were at least making an effort to fix them, now they don't give a shit. I'll give you a case and point, everyone and their mother says yi is broken as hell, so what do they do to fix him? Buff him more. Literally steaming bullshit on a plate. Yi isn't broken and Riot hasn't made any less effort to balance the game on a bi-weekly basis as they've been up until now. Idk a single other game that updates balance so quickly and so often. Name one if you can. But all of a sudden "They don't give a shit now". Actually bullshit on a stick.
Actually they haven't given a shit about proper balance for a long LONG time. If they had they wouldn't have put in true damage at all. What possible reason can they have for putting in a stat that's literally designed to be unstoppable?
Fialova (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1jG3A8Rf,comment-id=0020000000010000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T02:05:44.112+0000) > > Nah I just wanted to show how easy it is to hijack a picture, I had my fun though :) Oh well thanks for raising awareness xD Also I'll add a serious response, like 15 of my friends from season 1 still active (didnt have a big friendlist at the time). Dedicated player base and riot made a culture from this game is what helps retains its numbers (sorta like WoW)
Yea well season 1 was super small. That why the kayle skin is so rare, the funny thing is you didn't even have to win 10 games, you just had to play 10 games. However it was such a small group back then that even that was a challenge.
Fialova (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1jG3A8Rf,comment-id=00200000000100000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-04-21T01:50:08.170+0000) > > But mah name is at the top of those skins, I must be telling the truth! I mean if you really want to make a bet, you can add me right now and I can prove it to you :) Other than that, Lolking has my stats soooooo idk why you'd think I'd lie LOL. Are we really that rare?
Nah I just wanted to show how easy it is to hijack a picture, I had my fun though :)
Fialova (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Clev3r0n3,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1jG3A8Rf,comment-id=002000000001000000000001,timestamp=2018-04-21T01:20:14.710+0000) > > I think what you mean to say MY skins, https://imgur.com/a/4FTuk66 > > Why you trying to steal mah skins buddy? :P So you think I'm legit lying? Here is one ingame [lol](https://imgur.com/a/yFE1o6C) Oh yeah btw, LOLKING has my season 1 ranked stats and champs played :P Idk why you would think I'm lying LOL
But mah name is at the top of those skins, I must be telling the truth!
Fialova (NA)
: ***
I think what you mean to say MY skins, https://imgur.com/a/4FTuk66 Why you trying to steal mah skins buddy? :P
Thé Nut (NA)
: Yeah unfortunately its just a small LOD change, can't really get into it anymore its pretty dated. Shame that GW2 is nothing like it.
Fialova (NA)
: ***
You linked someone elses skins with no name attached just skins and call that proof? That sure is proof, proof that someone else has a bunch of skins.
: Yi is not broken, but sure. Yi has been this way since his release. You either let him get fed or you kill him in the jungle and he fades away into irrelevancy. Not being able to handle yi is an issue that goes away with experience in the game. Look at videos of season 1 jax or xin zhao. Look at DFT katarina, veigar, or orianna. Cinderhulk volibear still gives me nightmares. Just out of curiosity, how long have you been playing? I don't know if you have seen as many issues in the game as some of the other players. I have played since the end of s2 start of s3.
I created my original account somewhere around the middle of season 2? So I saw a lot of the changes that came through, now obviously it wasn't this account it was on original one but yea they really should have reworked yi, or at the very least scaled him down, there is absolutely no justification for making someone scale that heavily. At least most of the other champs that scale that way have a massive down side like they're super slow, or super squishy, yi suffers from none of that.
Fialova (NA)
: I feel like people who make these posts just wish the game to die. They no longer enjoy the game for various reasons and butt hurt so they want everyone else to suffer. League wont die, Wow didn't die, and Dota didn't die. These posts have been made since S1 lmao. Plus WoW has BFA coming out, so I don't know why you even put it on that list. Shoot, you can even find the same exact threads on the WoW forums, typical forum culture. Another X game is dying bandwagon thread. Plus you do realize that people who post in boards/forums are an extremely small minority? Yeah, good luck on getting your wish that the game will die. As someone who played since Season 1, the game is not dying, and it is still fun in my opinion. inb4 salty sheeple downvotes
As someone who played since season 1 you should know that op.gg shows you only ranked since season 5 LOL
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Clev3r0n3

Level 24 (NA)
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