Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: And if you flash or dash his stun now he is out of range. ADCs are the target of assassins. of ADCs weren't so vulnerable assassins wouldn't exist. Play safe, ur not some god just because you deal dmg over time.
Alright, and what about the ADC's who aren't Tristana or Ezreal? If flash is your only counterplay, that saves you once every three full minutes. And I have some bad news for you, Pyke can engage... about fifty times more frequently than that. Then what, pretty much just Xayah with her ult? Pyke has alot of tools to get to who he needs to get to and if your team ignores him entirely you aren't going to be able to 1v1 him or even run from him in many circumstances. He's much faster, he's got CC, he's got dashes, and he's got plenty of burst. This post was never about ADC's being some kind of 'god'. The entire point is that they are vulnerable and when it comes to champs, like Pyke, the ADC needs some assistance keeping them off.
Saezio (EUNE)
: in a 5v5 teamfight the ADC was the closest person to fog of war? Sounds like great player.
Pyke has a stealth mechanic that allows him to get pretty close without even being seen. Sure you've got the visual que around your feet but it doesn't tell you which direction pyke is coming from. Regardless a good pyke is going to use that W to gap close as the move speed that it gives is going to allow him to chase you down. The E is going to come out and unless you use some sort of dash or flash the stun is going to land. snap-cast Q doesn't hook but it does slow and that is enough for him to weave and auto in and finish off with ult. Unless you have CC to lock him down mid E dash he's gonna outrun you, chase you, and kill you. Fog of war never even has to factor in.
: I don't consider new Kayle as "support".
Agreed. The fact that her passive requires so many autos and active combat to ramp up mean that she's not really gonna be able to do much but spam her heal. The Q also doesn't have the range to hit a marksman whose farming minions unless you flash and let's face it, that's a bad idea. The only thing she has going for is her ult and thats completely offset by her dependency on levels and items to scale and lack of hard CC or even reliable soft CC.
: Wait. Wasn’t {{champion:30}} op for the longest time in the jg with dark harvest and was a decent mid lander too?
Yes, he's decent because his kit is uninteractive and overall toxic. He's either broken or worthless and nothing in between. Also: you poor soul. I made this post five months ago, are you that deep in the boards or did you check my profile? lol
: A good ADC knows how to position and peel for themselves. Generally ADCs have the best range in the game so dying is completely up to you. If you're sitting there front lining, not dodging skillshots or putting yourself in positions where they can jump in and murder you, that's bad positioning and that's on you. Just because you might be good at one role doesn't mean you're not poor at another role. You rarely hear good ADCs give excuses like "Where's my peel?". Instead they ask "Why did I put myself in that position?". Watch any decent ADC stream and you'll see what I'm talking about.
OtterlyLost has a post a bit farther up the thread that addresses this very well. I'm going to pull a key point for reference but I suggest you read it. "Just for a frame of reference, at level 18, Tristana has the highest normal AA range of any ADC in the game at 661. That is her normal AA Range with no abilities or RFC increasing it. 661 units away. Now compare that to the ranges of several assassins and diver's dashes/engages: {{champion:238}} His W's Target range is 650 but the effective radius of it is 1950. His Ult range also is 625. He literally only has to W forward and then ult and he is range of a Tristana at her max AA range." Positioning isn't enough. It helps, but it's not enough on its own if you don't have support.
Saezio (EUNE)
: at 9/0 my adc can afford a stopwatch for every time zed has his R up.
The single-use and then it breaks stopwatch? Upgradable into GA which has a three minute CD or a Zhonyas, which on top of being useless on AD characters outside the passive has a 15-16 second longer CD than Zed's ult on average if he builds CDR (Which, considering Cleaver and all lethality items have CDR, is going to be rather impossible for him to -not build). And key to the point, if Zed falls, your team ignores him, you stopwatch, and he sits there spamming his laugh emote because he doesn't necessarily -need- the ult to kill you when your team is oblivious to the shurikens lodged in your colon?
Saezio (EUNE)
: Yeah kinda true, but adcs need to stop commiting if they don't have a clear escape plan in mind. Just stay outside of the enemy champions range, just don't auto anyone until you have a clear plan of how to navigate the fight. Zac has a huge ass shadow bellow you, cho Q takes 5 years to erupt, and if my adc is hit by pyke Q the adc is an idiot. Also, PSA!!! ADC PLAYERS 600g for a stopwatch is a great investment! you don't need to upgrade it, if it wins you a teamfight the investment was worth it. LEARN TO USE THE FUCKING THING, especially if your flash is down, just sacrifice the 600g it's nothing
Someone else had a similar point so I'm going to use alot of what I said to them to save time. The jist of it: Pyke uses his W move speed stealth to get in close and then E dashes past the ADC to land the stun, Q hits point blank and then the ult falls. A good Pyke that lands all three spells can 100-0 any ADC even if they've built defensive items like Iceborn, ninja tabi, and GA thanks to the true damage execute on his ult. He doesn't have to land his Q first, or even at all if he's fed. I had a fed Pyke the other day execute me from 1200 hp. Cho's knockup may have a large delay but protobelt does not. Neither does righteous glory or predator. If the Cho runs at you and uses the slow passive on his E autos the Q knockup is guaranteed. For Zac's part if he comes over a wall there is a very real possibility that you wont have any space to move to dodge the jump in time. Even if you do, he just has to E grab a minion and then you to get CC off.
: I will not, if he is an idiot. I play mainly protector support, but there are rules, that the ADC needs to understand. 1. You are not frontliner. I can't save you, if you get pulled into the middle of 5 enemies. And there is no support, that can. 2. If we lost botlane, then we lost. Get over it. Pushing, and dying 5 more times will not make us stronger than them. Play safe, and wait for jungler. We can try again after 6. Also if they are 6, and we are not, then don't go fighting. 3. If you are weak, and another teammate is strong, then i gona protect him instead, if possible. A 4/0 Yi worths more, than a 0/3 Jinx. 4. I'm not on you 24/7. There are certain circumstances when i abandon you for shorter/longer times. I always ping, if i do, and if you ignore it, then that's your fault. For example helping out our jungle against counterjungling, or warding, or if i'm low health.
Right, this is fine and I agree with every point. However, if you can't keep the Zed off of him in mid-game team fights then you can't expect him to be doing any damage or surviving unless he runs far-far away. That's more on my point. Believe me, I've had enough Vayne's flash under turret level 2 to greed kills on the enemy laner whose barely below half HP to know that not all ADC's are savable.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EtmNNO86,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-14T07:16:31.107+0000) > > If the enemy team has a Pyke, Zac, and Cho, don't expect your ADC to be able to dodge them all. literally wtf? are we talking about a 1v3 scenario or a 5v5 scenario? Because aside Zac's E an adc should have no troubles surviving against anything else, cho's Q is heavily delayed and pyke cannot channel Q inside a teamfight to reach an adc without it being blocked / him getting struck by a cc.
He uses his W move speed stealth to get in close and then E dashes past the ADC to land the stun, Q hits point blank and then the ult falls. A good Pyke that lands all three spells can 100-0 any ADC even if they've built defensive items like Iceborn, ninja tabi, and GA thanks to the true damage execute on his ult. Cho's knockup may have a large delay but protobelt does not. Neither does righteous glory or predator. If the cho runs at you and uses the slow passive on his E autos the Q knockup is garunteed. Of -course-, you do mention my entire point. "Without it being blocked/him getting struck by cc". If your team is doing it's job and peeling for you, yes, a Pyke should not be able to get onto you without being focused down and bursted and the same can be applied to cho. The entire point of my post is that teams tend to just let these champs into the backline to free hit the ADC and then get confused when the ADC dies.
Rioter Comments
: Thats nit even what i said but ok. His post had 11 up votes 2 minutes after it was made.
It's not what you said but its what you meant. Just throwing the accusation around just because someone's opinion is more popular than yours.
: again, nerfing her mid is not an option. btw please stop with the upvote bot. many thanks
"Someone is getting upvotes on an opinion I disagree with, must be an upvote bot", lol, this is why nobody takes the boards seriously. Well reasoned, argued, and articulated points get responses like -this-.
: You already hard nerfed Zyra, it's Lux's turn now
Just fix her damn Q hit box and we'll be golden. Tired of getting rooted by skillshots that aren't even on the same side of the equator as me.
Investa (NA)
: The Importance of Morale; How Your Flaming Isn't Constructive Criticism
It's also a scientifically proven fact that reflexes slow and decision making worsens significantly when someone is angry. So not only does flaming not help your team, it actively makes them worse.
Stwessed (NA)
: Haha. Black Cleaver "Too Good" when most fighters will almost always get Tri Force over it because of how shit Cleaver is. I already can tell the shit show the rest of this will be
> [{quoted}](name=Stwessed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fK8XE4wM,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-06-10T10:39:51.745+0000) > > Haha. Black Cleaver "Too Good" when most fighters will almost always get Tri Force over it because of how shit Cleaver is. I already can tell the shit show the rest of this will be I have not seen a single tri-force built this patch. Check my game history. Every single game I have played in the last week has had a minimum of one black cleaver. I do not see a single tri-force.
Rioter Comments
: This wont do anything alone Flat magic pen is still too good for how bad magic reisist items are and {{item:3035}} still pens too much. Also {{item:3151}} (straight up make this a 60 ap item add 200 hp so its on tanks as a damage option or more defensive for mages who do too well getting damage and defense at the same time atm. lower hp on items like {{item:3165}} and {{item:3027}} ) {{champion:82}} E {{champion:122}} E Black Cleaver needs to be a 60-65 ad item with 500 hp and 10% cdr and a max of 15-17% Armor pen over the same amount of stacks.
Those other items you mention don't also give a huge 20% CDR plus move speed.
: I wonder if a gold tank main who hates classes meant to counter his should be asking for items to be removed so he doesn't have to play correctly into any matchup should be heeded.
OK, what is the counter option to BC then? Because in teamfights even a full armored up tank is melted in seconds. There is only so much you can do to outplay when you're going to get stat checked up front extremely quickly. Edit: My main issue is that the single item is both an early game power spike and a late game tank killer. It leaves no room for tanks to come back into play, even late game where tanks are supposed to be more relevant.
: You really want bruisers to be worse than they are ?
Worse? They dominate top lane right now. Darius and Urgot are pretty much unchallenged. Tahm kench being the exception, and he is broken flat out.
: League of Tanks! More year long CC ;}
League of tanks? Tanks have been in the dumpster for the entire season and a large chunk of last season. One black cleaver on a team and guess what, see that malphite that has a taric passive and totals out to be around 600 armor? Doens't matter he's squishy. Their CC doesn't matter if they pop like a balloon before even being able to get off a full spell rotation.
: Please don’t post again
Why? Do you have an actual argument against what I said? If not that means you're -wrong-.
Xavanic (NA)
: While i don't agree with bc being an item, i do like bruisers/tanks have a good default itemization, what i would like to see if the shred passive be replaced with a bleed effect
At the very least the CDR needs to be dropped to 10%, that way these champions are sacrificing some CDR (vs items like Spear of Shojin or Tri-Force) to deal with tanks. I'd also, on top of that, nerf the armor shred by about 2-3% per stack, in a perfect world.
Rioter Comments
: You could point to any buff ability and say the same thing "Malphite W gives him a load of bonus dmg based on his armour, an additional 200 physical dmg total :o that's... 20 long swords 7,000 gold :O" A champion is a blob, with some amount of hp and mana, that can spend that mana on abilities. If their main dps buff ability is underwhelming then the champion will also be underwhelming, to play and in it's win rate
So we should delegate some of the games strongest buffs to single button press passives because all champs get buffs? My problem isn't that they exist, my problem is that they exist in a state that leaves no room for counterplay or skill expression. Some of them make a champion effective even from an absurd deficit. There is no out-thinking, out-itemizing, or outplaying an opponent when they just get to throw a stat-stick against the wall and auto-win even if they are playing like a sentient garbage fire.
xAcidik (NA)
: Here's What I've Learned From Practicing Jungle...
Thank sweet Jesus somebody finally understands.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: She's weaker around mid-game to compensate for the early and late strength. Quite a few champs are like this, actually. Kayle used to be like that (She had a lot of early strength due to range in toplane, but didn't have enough of anything to survive in mid-game), and Kindred's like that as well.
Is she? is she really though? I'm going to ask you to clarify what her supposed mid-game weakness is because at the moment I don't see one.
Rioter Comments
: What the fuck, where are these buffs coming from again? I had no idea this was happening...
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=EzEQ554A,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-05-12T20:25:18.784+0000) > > Then go play Dota. nah
: Unpopular opinion, junglers shouldn't exist
Rioter Comments
: Nasus sure as fuck doesn't take Conq. He *used* to, against *certain tanks* before it was reworked, but it's garbage on him now. Also nice misuse of buzzwords like "free stats".
They get AD. A vamp sceptors worth of sustain. and true damage. Literally just for landing their spells. Those are stats. That is essentially free. But please oh big brained wise one, enlighten me, how would YOU describe free stats?
: Garen and Nasus are taking Conq? Zed is taking Conq? Literally any ADC besides Draven is taking Conq? The only champions using it are duelists and divers which is exactly who it was made for so I don't see what's the problem because a lot of them still go other keystones too.
Conq is the current highest winrate keystone for twitch jungle, for example.
: Can we for the love of god nerf conqueror.
Getting downvote bombed, I guess I should complain about Yasuo or Vayne instead of a real problem.
Rioter Comments
Moody P (NA)
: I've never lost interest in a champion as fast as i did with yuumi
Recycled kit? Name another champion that can attach itself to an ally the way she can. Name another ability that requires multiple hits to root. Name another ability that only slows if it traveled a minimum distance. The last healer we had introduced to the game was Nami and that was a very long time ago. Her kit doesn't resemble anything we currently have in the game. Recycled? Really? It sounds to me like you're just upset you didn't get another WaiFu to add to your collection.
: Thanks for letting us know that you have no idea what the point of karthus' passive is
It doesn't matter what the 'point' is if the result is toxic.
: > [{quoted}](name=DaenrysTargaryen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F9mtz6lF,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-23T04:38:44.227+0000) > > I would like to bring up the fact that while it was the Kayle and Morgana update, it was Specifically stated that Kayle was getting a full VGU(Visual Gameplay Update) and Morgana was just getting a VU(Visual Update), now lets get to Karthus, Karthus's Idenity is in his passive and his R. His passive for being undead, his R for being the only 5-man Global Ultimate. You got to play around that, like you said his ult is on one of the longest cool-downs in the game. It's still disappointing that they went into August saying actual changes to Morgana were likely, then decided against them.
Morgana was healthy before the update. That is kind of my point. Meanwhile champions like Karthus, Udyr, Mordekaiser, and Nocturn all have toxic feast or famine kits with little counterplay.
: >Karthus should be punished for positioning like an ape. He is already. If he dies in a bad spot (such as from poke) or dies and the enemy team is able to disengage his passive goes to waste and his ult is not going to kill anyone. Now his own team has to fight 4v5. And given he has no movement abilities of his own he needs to be very careful where he's moving, otherwise he just gets picked off at a bad time. Karthus almost **has** to use his ult while dead during a big teamfight because of that channel time. Any Karthus that does otherwise is asking to get CC'ed.
Unless he's got a deathcap in which case one Q dark harvest proc + his ult is enough to instakill a squishy that he just flashed on top of. Name another champ that can flash forward, die on purpose, and be rewarded with kills. I'll wait.
: I would like to bring up the fact that while it was the Kayle and Morgana update, it was Specifically stated that Kayle was getting a full VGU(Visual Gameplay Update) and Morgana was just getting a VU(Visual Update), now lets get to Karthus, Karthus's Idenity is in his passive and his R. His passive for being undead, his R for being the only 5-man Global Ultimate. You got to play around that, like you said his ult is on one of the longest cool-downs in the game.
His R is global, unstoppable, unblockable, and undodgeable. Late game, it does well over a thousand damage to even full HP targets with a single MR item. It requires no thought, no pretense, no skill. All he has to be aware of is a single enemy HP bar being low and he can get a free kill even if he died just moments before trying to solo rift the moment he hit level six. His 'identity' is currently toxic.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=MYSTlCFLOW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AwOq6rlP,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-04-20T06:45:06.213+0000) > > not really understanding your argument. if your team has worse players then yes you're going to lose.. > > faker loses games > > would you rather this bad player be stuck in high elo? or that they demote? > > assuming you're not a troll you have a 4/5 chance to get a troll/afk/bad player and the enemy has a 5/5 chance > > and in terms of lane.. if one laner goes 0/5 and the enemy laner goes 5/0 how can you say that the person who died has a bigger impact than the person who killed him? > > I feel like the argument is basically the same as giving credit to adc's and not supports. or giving credit to supports and not adc's you need both > > the enemy has to be BETTER than your team mate. and your team mate has to be WORSE than the enemy team mate. > > in a one versus one. you can say. "this guy lost because he's bad" or "this guy won because his enemy was good" or "this guy won because he's good" or "this guy won because his enemy was bad" > > yeah sure the individual game might suck. you don't think Faker/apdo the best league players in the world wouldn't be upset losing a game in bronze/silver/gold/plat? sure they would. but EVERYBODY LOSES GAMES. > > > "now take sir Francis drake. the Spanish all despise him. but to the British he's a hero and they idolize him, it's how you look at buccaneers that makes them bad or good." > > I believe you've simply been corrupted by the league of legends mentality. you see a 5/0 irelia versus a 0/5 nasus and say that the nasus lost you the game. the enemy says that the nasus lost you the game. very rarely does someone say irelia carried the game. but ultimately it's two sides of the same coin. one player had to have been better. sure in an ideal world nobody would go past 0/2 and they would camp turret, in that ideal world nobody would go past 2/0 either. this isn't the lcs. this is league of legends and nobody's perfect. > > > ^ > You don't hear about one player CARRYING the game, you hear about the one person on the losing team COSTING the game. It's a terrible system. > > that's just a fallacy, so if suddenly everyone started saying the exact opposite it would be true? herd mentality > > ^ > You give a team a yi that consistently goes 4/10 and loses games? > > yes and eventually that yi ends up in the rank he deserves. and you've only suffered one maybe two games to the same individual Feeders have a larger impact on games because, they aren’t just feeding one person. They are feeding multiples. Where as if you stomp your lane, you’re the only one getting fed. You can only power up one person. A feeder can power up 5. That’s why trolls, feeders and inters have a larger impact than actually good players.
If you cant extend your lead to other lanes, then it sounds like you have a new skill set to pick up. The only reason someone would be feeding multiple people would be that their team is coordinating and yours is not. Besides that, if he's 0/4 and goes to 0/5 he's worth less than a cannon minion. People feed. It sucks. It's not some magical riot nerf to keep your WR low. Some people you can't rotate and save. Most you can. Build to counter the champ whose fed and coordinate objectives with your team to come back in team fights. It's hard. As it should be.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5NnEB3QB,comment-id=0000000200000000,timestamp=2019-04-13T18:46:56.086+0000) > > Bruisers are not unique to top lane. Xin Zhou is a bruiser and is in the jungle. And yes, Conqueror was broken for about a patch and a half. The bruiser keystone was broken. You're not helping your case here. alright thats cool and all, but what about the fact that you kinda just went hostile for no reason because you couldnt answer that lethal tempo isnt used top lane
> [{quoted}](name=WastingSun,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5NnEB3QB,comment-id=00000002000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-14T22:11:38.891+0000) > > alright thats cool and all, but what about the fact that you kinda just went hostile for no reason because you couldnt answer that lethal tempo isnt used top lane If by "Hostile" you mean I disproved your point then sure, I was hostile. We were talking about bruisers, not about top laners. You also mentioned that a bruiser keystone was broken while you were trying to tell me that bruisers have no good keystones, which ISN'T helping your argument. I'm not hostile, you're just wrong. Sorry.
roughvan (EUNE)
: Games are decided in first 10 minutes anyway. Why shouldn't they be allowed to afk? I dislike when people hold me hostage in a game that we are losing 90-95% of the time. If the enemy has jax and vayne that are both 5/0, why should i be forced to play the game to the end? Games are now decided as soon as they start, people don't like to play a losing game. Even if you ff at 15 or wait in base, as long as you improve what you did bad that game, you'll get better. Koreans have been doing that for years, only now that games are so short have finally other regions started accepting that way of playing a bit. More info: 80% to win if you get first dragon 60% to win if you get rift herald 90% to win if you get baron
I've had seven separate games that have been come-back games this week. If you have a twitch and a Janna, you scale to a ridiculous extent. Scaling matters. Literally the last game in my profile as of writing this, we were down several thousand gold at 15 minutes. I was doing poorly because my net DC'd for several minutes on me and I was getting one shot. We came back and won. Seven comeback games is 140 lp. That is an entire rank and a half. It's not a small amount. Giving up so early is just plain toxic. I don't care what the Koreans do, they didn't even make the quarterfinals at last years worlds. They are are not the end all be all of what to do in league. the Kai'Sa in our last game had a double-digit kill lead and couldn't close the game out. This is even at high-gold low-plat elo. There is really no excuse to give up on a game that early.
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CloakAndGrenade

Level 194 (NA)
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