: My straw man is using demographics to say why it's wrong. I DON'T THINK YOU KNOW WHAT A STRAW MAN IS. Tencent doesn't force it companies to make changes and thinking that probably means you are racist since you are going against basically all proof and reason to do it. Why would tencent go against basically all market research to what you're saying? Again fast paced games aren't popular there, the games that are popular requires lot of hours to be put in. Like again fast paced games work in NA not china. So if anything it's opposite if tencent is doing that. Like give a real argument not your racist paranoid nonsense.
Tencent doesn't force companies to make changes, you're right. It just throws a few billion dollars worth of weight around. That's not forcing. Fast-paced games aren't popular there? Mobile games dominate the market. The Chinese mobile gaming market is one of the largest gaming markets in the industry by a large margin. But you're right, mobile games are super long and strategy focused. I mean, have you seen Raid? That game takes a billion years to play, each time. Got to set aside an entire life-time for each session. Your only point to counter the arguments that others are making is the claim that fast-paced games aren't popular in China and an industry worth a few billion dollars would beg to disagree. But yeah keep calling people racist because you don't know how to actually form an argument. If you're going to keep returning to this single point I am going to need to say *ahem* CITATION PLEASE? Edit: I'd also like to add that this wasn't even my point or argument, your immediate jump to labeling people as a bigot just irritated me enough to address you.
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Rn3mEAW7,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-25T05:55:59.452+0000) > > Sanguine Blade existing and being abused by everyone from support Sion to Twitch to Zed. > Twice the lethality in the game as last season. > Ender Dragon one-shots for 20% hp champs. > "Note that the 20% threshold looks higher than it is in practice: You'll rarely bring an enemy to exactly 19.9% before they go boom" > OH. OH REALLY. > Yeah, it's not like we have champs whose entire kits are centric around the concept of being low on HP. {{champion:266}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:154}} > No HP Sustain/damage from being low on HP/resurrection champs in the game. None at all. And there are also no healers that could heal a 19.9% target up to where it could survive. > {{champion:16}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:350}} > Not a single one. > > Like, yay, you finally (after an entire season of it being overpowered) nerfed the true damage off conqueror (though you made it viable on ranged champs and upped its healing making it just as strong before, just not as auto-win versus tanks), only to add so much more lethality to the game as well as a %HP execute so that tanks are in an even worse spot then they were before. > > Jungle XP has been reworked again to make ganking punishing and drags are more important than ever, so damage focused junglers will reign supreme. Why would you ever play Sej when she can't contest early drakes and her early ganks are very hit or miss? So what if you burn a flash, you're now a level and a half behind and being behind as a tank means you die a fraction of a second slower than your AD carry. > > Neat, Mountain drakes grant bonus resistances. Too bad the added damage creep in the game means that even a four stacked mountain drake tank champ is going to be melted within three or four seconds. You don't get to be tanky. > > I know, Riot, that high damage is better for pro play. When everyone pops like a balloon upon impact it makes the splashy bright colors that make the big brains buy tickets to your eSport. It just also happens to make for some of the most strategically bankrupt, macro inept, and unsatisfying gameplay to have ever hit the rift since AP Master Yi was allowed to be a thing. > > I won't stand for this for another season. I can't. I'm a support main first, and a tank main second. You guys have spent every single individual patch since early season 7 removing supports and tanks from the game. Damage and mobility keep going higher, and higher, and higher, and higher. Utility and defense keep going lower, and lower, and lower, and lower. It isn't a coincidence that two of the newest "supports" are carries (Pyke, Senna) and the one "support" that has also been successful is because of the damage they grant their carry while they remain untargetable. Ivern's been removed from the game. Healers are practically useless. Tanks end up being squishier than Bruisers, fighters, and even some assassins with a sustain item and Conq, no more. Traditional supports get nerfed out of oblivion for defense and utility and get their damage buffed up so high it's actually braindead (tahm kench) or just quietly get nerfed out of playability (Karma). > > Like, neat, I'm so glad you now have AD support items. Pyke really needed the buff, thanks. > > Look, I'm not advocating for the tank meta to come back. But if we could make playstyles that aren't locking in a mobile carry and building full damage viable again I'd be happy. But if this damage keeps up, I'm not going to play. > > I won't be able to bring myself to do so. I finally climbed to plat last season. Yet despite climbing higher than I ever have, I have never felt like I had less control over my elo during a season than that one. I don't play fighters, carry's, juggernauts, or assassins. I don't play hyper-carry mages. I don't want to, it's not what I find enjoyable. But every year that goes by where this mess isn't addressed I feel like I'm punished for the supportive playstyle. > > I'm punished for focusing on team-wide macro play. > I'm punished for playing a CC or utility-focused champ. > I'm punished for itemizing for my allies rather than myself. > I'm punished for building defensive when behind and not feeding, rather than continuing to build damage. > > So let's fix it this preseason shall we? Tanks are the biggest counters to assassin and why no assassin besides Qiyana or Akali have shown their face in LCS/worlds, so no. Ivern has got to be one of the most aggravating champs to play vs. as a non-tank melee. Daisy's out and you don't get to play the game because if it's not the Daisy stunlock it's the 1+ sec root that gives ADC's and mages enough time to vaporize you. Virtually all the good junglers this patch are tanky. Khazix? good luck assassinating anything when you are 2 levels behind most lanes, you'll die within an ahri charm or to a couple Fiora autos. Kayn? Get invaded all game long without being able to do a damn thing, and on top of your weak early game ganks they added further level gaps so you have to afk farm till late mid game to even be on the same level as your bot lane. Rek'sai, Lee Sin, Jarvan, Nunu, Olaf, even an Amumu can bust you up in a single Q as Kayn and kill you if you don't give up your camp to his invade. So why play any assassin at all when you have a bunch of tanky fighters who do your job better than you. Why play blue Kayn when you will die in 1 sec to a Rakan charm and they changed edge of night so now you can't even protect yourself against the abundant CC spam in this game where you die in a single stun. Games live and die by ADC's and their protecting tanks yet here you stand crying as if assassins are actually a thing anymre when Tryndamere is doing assassination better than actual assassins. And really sick of ADC's that are harder to kill than raid bosses due to all the protection they've gained from PD/bloodthirster and support CC spam while being the highest damage champs in the game. If I get within range of an ADC, it should be a kill, yet with Kaisa, Caitlyn, or Xayah it is such that they can actually turn on me as an assassin and kill me if they have 1-2 items built up, it's garbage. ADC's should never be able to 1v1 assassins or any other champ for that matter considering they're supposed to be balanced around playing with their support. So sick of dying to right click champs, be they ranged or melee fighters.
Did you just say that Qiyana and Akali didn't show up at worlds? Qiyana had one of the highest pick/ban rates of the tournament https://gol.gg/champion/champion-stats/145/season-ALL/split-ALL/tournament-World%20Championship%202019/patch-ALL/role-ALL/league-ALL/ and Akali also saw regular play. Also, assassin champs are weak to invades. That is not a testimate to their state in the game. Like, congratulations you understand the weakness in the picked class, I'm proud of you. It's a shame that it's completely irrelevant to my point anyway, even if what you said was one hundred percent true (which it's not). If you're getting one-shot by Rakan's ult (Which he would have to be full AP mid-lane Rakan for that to even be mathematically possible) while playing a champ that can literally go into terrain and dodge it completely with a single press of a button then that says a great deal more about you than it does about the current game state. Red Kayn isn't a tank either so I'm not sure why we are bringing him up if your hope is to counter my point about tank's feeling squishy. He's a bruiser with a massive amount of sustain that ends up making him tankier than most tanks. Meaning, you bringing him up helps my argument, not your own.
: When you don't have a clue about demographics, but you still make a point like that. I think you're most likely racist. NEWFLASH china likes slow paced games, it's NA that has games like cod and fortnite taking over. Like the most played game in china is a mmo,and the most played shooter is a csgo clone meaning like 40 min games. Smite is much faster then league it's not popular in china it's popular in the west. Pretty weird that the only games that are popular there are the ones that require a shit load of investment into them.
So, first off, China isn't a race it is a country. Chinese isn't a race, it is a nationality. Putting your straw-man of the guy's point aside, Tencent literally owns Riot. Tencent is a massive Chinese company with a long track record and history of pushing bad market trends in favor of China's mobile gaming market. They don't care about the rest of the world. They are the reason we have mobile games coming out of riot (as announced at the 10th-anniversary special). To say that they don't have a massive amount of pull and sway is not only intellectually disingenuous but factually incorrect. Do you want to argue against his point? Fine, go for it. But argue against his point, not some wild out of left field straw-man you pulled out of thin air. Arguments by order of validity: Valid = The Chinese pull on the market is not responsible for the current game state. Invalid = The Chinese do not have a pull on the market Invalid = the Chinese do not have a large and dominant influence over League Invalid = You're racist.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I see you had a great game against Nocturne recently and are more upset than anything, so here. I'll lay it out. Dies to assassin alone as an ADC. "Rework this assassin who killed me alone in bot lane as the ADC without my support who could heal, shield, or peel for me" (sorry to see your Yorick Support btw) Garen got an update with no art changes. "Why not fully relaunch Nocturne instead." "Tank Items are bad because of Conqueror and Black Cleaver" Well, Nocturne takes neither of those things in games, so what's the point here? Name drop Ghostcrawler for the epic callout! He doesn't even work on champions in any capacity anymore. "Nocturne has poor character design" Like no shit, Nocturne is a champ from the games infancy, but he's on the relaunch list and most likely won't make it past 2020 without one, but you have to be patient seeing as two of them are already in active development. ( {{champion:9}} {{champion:106}} both of which are on a wholly different level of degenerative gameplay to an assassin who has no escape tools).
Not even man, it was an ARAM match that prompted this to be honest. "Darkness" and one-shot before the animation even completes, despite him having around half the gold at that point and time than me or anyone else. Its not just the fact that he one-shots you when alone, its that if he's at even and item and a half there aren't any real safe spots on the map period. He can dive from a huge distance away so even if you set it up so that you engage when you're sure you -just- saw him at raptors, knowing you can win the fight bot, he's going to come diving in at the last moment for a cleanup double kill. It doesn't feel good. There are very few mobile carries and even as tank supports (I play support far more often than I play ADC) I find myself getting absolutely obliterated if he's even slightly ahead. Trying to peel a Nocturn off my ADC feels awful. If I'm not playing lulu or Zilean I can forget it. By the time the spellshield drops and I can CC him my ADC is usually already dead and I end up knocking him away just so I can limp back under turret. At least Zed I can stun up when he lands and retaliate if I time it right. Also, Nocturne doesn't have to use Black Cleaver to benefit from the armor shred. He also -can- build it situationally, since he benefits heavily from move speed and CDR for his ult engages and BC grants both. Sure its not the most damage efficient item but he can absolutely build it. I pointed out Garen's update not necessarily because the effort involved is the same but Garen's update is a great fucking example of whats wrong with the current meta. They took a champ that was struggling and just upped his damage significantly despite the serious oversaturation of damage in burst in the current game state. I'm glad he's on the relaunch list. That is something that I missed. I knew about fiddle and volibear (excited to see what they do with fiddle.) but I had heard Shyvanna was third and I haven't seen them rework more than two champs in a year in forever. Its whatever, much of my post was more tongue and cheek than anything else. I still think the jist of my argument has some merit to it, my execution of it aside.
Rioter Comments
: it was tested on the pbe first... i personally dont see an issue with it, you just log in once and now any time you click on league on your desktop it logs you in automatically, ready to go my issue with it is switching accounts... gets very clunky and sometimes the main client gets stuck because it doesn't quite close out the old session before starting a new one
Maybe its to combat smurfs then? lol
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: It's imbalanced for different reasons. The map itself is actually pretty good. Hell, even Vilemaw is a challenge a lot of times. The trouble comes down to some characters just being stronger when there's less options to deal with them, and also characters like Kayn who can traverse the map in seconds.
Not to mention champions like ziggs and xerath who can ult the other lane without even moving from their turret.
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ckrk0Xc,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-15T23:53:35.359+0000) > > Not the wall behind me. But that's how her ult works. > Not the area beside me. But that's how hit-boxes and hurt-boxes work, in literally every video game forever. > No, an auto-attack doesn't count. But she has ***empowered*** auto attacks, so that definitely counts. > She's an assassin. > She's supposed to be high skill cap. Most Assassins have low skill ceilings, tho. Having to use your abilities does not equal skill or even challenging gameplay. > If she whiffs her Q, her E, and her ult, and only manages to land an auto after hitting her W, she shouldn't be blowing me up. How does she wiff an E if it's point-and-click? Also, if she hits her E then she ***WILL*** hit her Q because they have a combo interaction. > But she does. > Tank, mage, assassin, support, doesn't matter. > She can miss her ult entirely (or not even aim it at you) and hit a wall to chunk you for half your HP. It's in her kit. Stay away from walls, then. That's called "counter-play". > No other assassin (besides maybe Katarina, headbutt R collect LP) is able to just miss everything and still get a kill. And Zed, and Leblanc, and Rengar, and Evelynn can pretty easily reach a point where she can completely butcher her Q and W, just hit E R and you're dead. I'm fine with people disliking champs but it seems to me that you're doing less criticizing and more complaining about a strong champion.
She can hit a minion or jungle monster with it, equating to zero damage on the intended target. That, is how you wiff a point and click ability. Also, her ult spreads far enough from the initial impact point that she can blow up both sides of the dragon/baron pit and into the river with a single button press. She can be as far away as the scuttle spawn and still hit red-side bot lane by ulting the wall while they farm under turret. "counterplay" my ass. If Zed misses his shurikens, his ult does nothing. If leblanc misses her chains and her leap, she does no damage. If evelynn fails to proc her W, she doesn't get any of the magic resist shred and the E R combo (R doing bonus damage based on missing health, therefore doing nothing if all she hit was her E) will do around zero meaningful damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ckrk0Xc,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-09-16T05:26:43.445+0000) > > The fact that you have Master Yi and Yasuo listed in your post as assassins tells us everything we need to know about the value of your opinion. > The idea that her ult is easy to avoid when she can slap it on the backside of the baron pit and it will wrap around the entire wall of the baron and spread around two full minion widths out the other side into the river is ridiculous. Watch her in ARAM to see just how far her ult will spread from its original point. Many times, she can hit her ult from the complete other end of terrain, blastcone or hop over the wall and finish you off with her Q because you can't ward -every- corner every time. > > Additionally, avoid fighting her in the river? Got it, it's not like there are game-winning objectives in the river that will need to be contested at some point or anything. > > Her cooldowns are non-existent, her kit is extremely forgiving, and she can blow people up even when she screws up half of her kit because her bonus damage is so high she doesn't even need to hit her skillshots. > > Compared to other assassins the supposed "risk" is non-existent. She can nuke anything in the mid lane with a single combo. Videos of her being 0/0, just hitting level six, and immediately 100-0'ing a Malzahar with passive up in less than two full seconds is proof enough of her state of power. Even Zed takes far longer to ramp up and is far easier to deal with in the mid to late game. > > Also, Ahri's R isn't meant to be a damage ability. It's a repositioning tool with the added bonus of some targeted damage within a certain range. There's really nothing to 'miss'. Even if you don't get any procs of her ult or W off her main damage is E and Q, the Q only doing one shot capable damage if she lands her E first. > > You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding on how most of these champions work. Opinions are commodities. What are Master Yi and Yasuo if not assassins? Bruisers? Marksmen? Supports? Mages? There are only so many roles recognized in the meta. They're definitely not marksmen. They're not mages; they don't have the big burst AOE for that. They're sure as hell not supports, I've tried. If I can't support with it, no one can. Are they bruisers? Well, considering that they both have very low health and no way of boosting their staying power (apart from Yi's heal, which is far too easy to negate and on far too long a cooldown to call it a core part of his kit), they don't feel like bruisers either. You don't seem to value my opinion very highly, so here's my assessment: Your opinion is worth immeasurably less than mine. See how that works? You can say it, I can say it too. Now either we can sling "no u" back and forth at eachother all day like we're in primary school, or we can actually analyze one another's arguments. My argument was that there are plenty of melee assassins who rely on autos mixed in with abilities. Challenge it. Now let's get to yours. Her ult doesn't have a very wide reach from terrain. There's at least two champions worth of space between the AOE and baron. Use it. I've had plenty of people do so and completely negate my ult in baron. As for ARAM, we'll get to that shortly. Avoid fighting her in river. What I mean by this is that you need to be careful how you approach fights with her in river. Don't do it if you don't have to, but obviously, sometimes you must. If it's a teamfight, keep away from her and focus on her teammates. If she won't let you do that, you'll have to give her hard CC. The stun lasts between 0.5 and 1 second. The damage is 10% of your max health, not half. If we're talking raw AD, it does scale quite high. However, she'd have to reach 400 AD before she was dealing damage over a thousand with this ult. 1,000 health when ults are at max level shouldn't ever be more than about a third of a champion's health, less for tanks and bruisers. If your health is lower than 3,000 at that stage, you probably need some more health anyway. Now, ARAM? Her ult spreads ridiculously in ARAM because it's ARAM, the walls are all connected. ARAM imbalance isn't grounds for balance changes, I'm afraid. It's a deliberately non-standard game mode. It's one step shy of saying "her W->Q spam in URF is ridiculous, take away her root". Her short cooldowns are one of the tuning issues I wouldn't mind seeing tweaked a little. That said, I think they're more or less fine when you consider that she's not very fast without ring enchantment and she's a low-health melee champion. She _needs_ to use her Q/W combo frequently to be effective at all. her E and ult both have reasonable cooldowns. The E doesn't become problematic until later in the game, but this is the one I wouldn't mind seeing tweaked a little. As for bonus damage, see above. It's not half as much as you're making it out to be. If she "misses everything" as you say she does, hitting only with the splash from her ult, she's doing around 1,000 damage plus 10% of max HP, which isn't a lot for what she's giving up. Master Yi can put out this kind of damage every 1.8 seconds with basic attacks. Find me another assassin that can't destroy with a single combo. Fucking _Veigar_ can do this and he's not even an assassin. Nidalee is the only one off the top of my head that can't completely ruin a midlaner's day at level 6, and I find that unfortunate because Riot insists on keeping her in the assassin role. As far as risk... In what world is Zed easier to deal with? Zed has no mana constraints, superior agility, safer dives, and bigger burst. The only way to deal with Zed is to hit him with hard CC as soon as he comes in, and that's not always easy when he's has Living Shadow to confound you with. Qiyana needs to physically _run in_ at you. You can see her coming, unless her E is up. If it is, it's no different than Yasuo diving on you, except that she can't dive across your entire wave to reach you at the back. She still has to get close enough to use the E in the first place. Her only escape is A, if there's a minion around to E to, or B, to W away (a remarkably short distance) and hope her speed is superior to yours. This is her risk factor. > Also, Ahri's R isn't meant to be a damage ability. It's a repositioning tool with the added bonus of some targeted damage within a certain range. There's really nothing to 'miss'. Even if you don't get any procs of her ult or W off her main damage is E and Q, the Q only doing one shot capable damage if she lands her E first. Quite true. Yet she can reliably chase kills on squishy targets with it, with minimal risk and no real skill required. Another sign that the balance is the problem and not necessarily the champions. (Before you "in what world" me... In my world. I've seen this at least a dozen times this season.) All in all, it would seem to me that your fundamental understanding of _Qiyana_ is lacking. But I am too positive a soul to presume such things! I'll instead assume you got a little too salty at a Qiyana recently and it blinded you to what you already knew. No harm done, we all need to vent every now and again. Just be sure you don't go starting any petitions to dismantle Qiyana and rebuild her from the ground up. That would be a travesty.
Master Yi and Yasuo are fighters. They are sustain damage carries. It's how they are listed in game. It's how they build. It's how the pros refer to them as. You are the only person I have ever seen try to call Yasuo and Yi assassins lol. They go attack speed, crit, and a defensive item or two. Thats not an assassin build. The entire reason I brought up ARAM is because that is a huge straight wall that demonstrates just how far her ult can spread from its initial impact point. Qiyana can blow up the entire baron/dragon pit on both sides and into the river with a single button press. Turrets also count, by the way, making it really easy for her to turret dive on a roam as well. In what world is zed easier to deal with? Easy. He doesn't get the invisibility, the stun, or the root. He has more mobility sure, but if you CC him he dies. If he misses everything after he ults in? His ult does no damage. You conveniently forget that one of the things she can do with her ult is to go invisible, invisibility that lasts long enough for the entirety of the rest of her spells to come back off CD. That is clearly an escape option. And excuse me? Don't downplay what you just said. " If she "misses everything" as you say she does, hitting only with the splash from her ult, she's doing around 1,000 damage plus 10% of max HP" -ONLY- 1000 damage on a SPLASH from her ult? +10% MAX hp?! (Not even missing or current, MAX) You don't see the problem with that? The only other assassin ults that are out damaging that is circumstantially katarina and Fizz, and they both have to perform ALOT more set-up to get them off. Ahri can headbutt all three charges of her ult off in a row and use her W. IF she misses her E, she's not getting the kill. Period. End of story. Even a fed ahri who lands the Q. The idea that all of her damage is completely dependant on a skillshot that can be blocked by minions equates 'no risk or skill' is rather absurd. Your strawmen are going to have to be a lot better, my crows aren't fooled.
Terozu (NA)
: Dude Kat's ult is entirely a finishing move. If Kat is 100-0 you with just her ult she is either full build and you're a squishy, or she is fed af. Also, her shunpo is her blink
: > [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3ckrk0Xc,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-09-16T11:57:18.752+0000) > > That's not even the worst. Assassins should not have any kind of hard CC, but she has a Stun on her W in Water form and in her ultimate. I've seen many Qiyana's one shotting squishys in a fast rotation between her water form W and her ultimate wich offered no counterplay because the target was CC'ed during the whole combo. Her W has a .5 second *root* and a 1-second 20% *slow*. The only hard CC that prevents an opponent from fighting back is on her ult. Do people not do any research on champions nowadays? I don't really care about Qiyana one way or another, but please double-check to avoid building false premises.
His comment: "She shouldn't have CC" Your response: "She -does- have cc in her ultimate" Did.... did you think you counteracted his point or?
Saezio (EUNE)
: She can make the wall explode, think of the wall terrain as an extension for her ult. Why are you near the wall if you know that is what the champion does? Vayne has a stun on her E (aka not an ultimate) you really don't understand how comparing skills of different champions has 0 value? BTW I am not saying Qiyanna is not strong, just saying that your logic and the way you are making up your arguments is very flawed. Just to be clear, I do feel like qiyanna needs to be taken down a notch.
Vayne and Poppy both have to hit you into the wall. She can hit you from the other side of the terrain entirely while being nowhere near you. Stop with the "its just like vayne, stay away from walls lulz" strawman. Its not remotely the same in concept or execution. You were probably one of those people that called Yuumi's ult a Sona rip-off when her spotlight came out too.
: Wait you actually think Katarina is freelo? Old kata maybe, new kata, no.
My point was more on the idea that she doesn't actually have to land her dagger, her shunpo, or her blink. She just has to ult.
Saezio (EUNE)
: If the ult hits you via the wall, her ult didn't miss. and what do you mean hit her W? Also, her E is targeted, you can't whiff it. It can be dodged by movement abilities, but you can't actively whiff it. How many times have you actually played the champion? Seems like you have a completely shallow understanding of how her kit works.
She can hit the wall THEN hit you. Thats not hitting you, thats hitting the wall. Imagine if vayne just had to auto the wall instead of angling and timing to hit you into the wall.
: > Not the wall behind me. Very easy to avoid this. > Not the area beside me. Don't fight her up close in the river. > No, an auto-attack doesn't count. > She's an assassin. Yes it does. There are a lot of assassins who can devastate with autos. Yasuo, Master Yi, Talon (less now than in the past), ~~Garen~~, ~~Sejuani~~, ~~Vi~~, Fizz... I'm not sure why you think assassins don't have any use for autos, ever. > She's supposed to be high skill cap. She is. That doesn't have to mean she's not low skill floor. The concepts of skill ceiling and skill floor aren't joined at the hip. Like Master Yi, she's pretty easy to do okay with, but to truly shine with her, you need practice and a little talent. > If she whiffs her Q, her E, and her ult, and only manages to land an auto after hitting her W, she shouldn't be blowing me up. > But she does. > Tank, mage, assassin, support, doesn't matter. This one, you can blame on the meta. She's not the only champion that does that right now, by any stretch. > She can miss her ult entirely (or not even aim it at you) and hit a wall to chunk you for half your HP. Avoid walls around Qiyana. It's very possible. > No other assassin (besides maybe Katarina, headbutt R collect LP) is able to just miss everything and still get a kill. Yi doesn't even have to land anything. He doesn't have a single skillshot. Ahri can miss every single R and still get kills if her AP is high enough. Kha'zix doesn't need to land E or even W to get kills, he just needs to land his targeted Q's and autos. There are other assassins that behave this way. In general... Qiyana is a risky melee assassin with minimal range. If you burn your mobility getting in, you may find it hard to get out if things don't go the way you planned. Conversely, it's hard to get in position for your combo without using E or W to close the distance. Qiyana requires decisions, and if you make the wrong choices in the moment, she has no defense. Her health and resistances tend to be _extremely_ low. Without mobility or her water Q, what is she to do when she makes a mistake and jumps into two high-damage enemies? Sometimes even one will do. Qiyana's fine. Not perfect, but fine.
The fact that you have Master Yi and Yasuo listed in your post as assassins tells us everything we need to know about the value of your opinion. The idea that her ult is easy to avoid when she can slap it on the backside of the baron pit and it will wrap around the entire wall of the baron and spread around two full minion widths out the other side into the river is ridiculous. Watch her in ARAM to see just how far her ult will spread from its original point. Many times, she can hit her ult from the complete other end of terrain, blastcone or hop over the wall and finish you off with her Q because you can't ward -every- corner every time. Additionally, avoid fighting her in the river? Got it, it's not like there are game-winning objectives in the river that will need to be contested at some point or anything. Her cooldowns are non-existent, her kit is extremely forgiving, and she can blow people up even when she screws up half of her kit because her bonus damage is so high she doesn't even need to hit her skillshots. Compared to other assassins the supposed "risk" is non-existent. She can nuke anything in the mid lane with a single combo. Videos of her being 0/0, just hitting level six, and immediately 100-0'ing a Malzahar with passive up in less than two full seconds is proof enough of her state of power. Even Zed takes far longer to ramp up and is far easier to deal with in the mid to late game. Also, Ahri's R isn't meant to be a damage ability. It's a repositioning tool with the added bonus of some targeted damage within a certain range. There's really nothing to 'miss'. Even if you don't get any procs of her ult or W off her main damage is E and Q, the Q only doing one shot capable damage if she lands her E first. You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding on how most of these champions work.
Rioter Comments
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: >There's a minimal threshold to qualify most obese people have spent more time on running than the people that have hit level 30 and played 10 ranked games of league, and time requirement is the only requirement to be considered a competitor in league so using obese people as a comparison for running is completely fair. >That's an absurd strawman lets go with america for example, 60% of the population is overweight, this means that the skinny dude that has never left his room in his life is a "good" runner because his better than the majority of people.
You're missing the point entirely and I'm tired of trying to explain. Keep viewing the entire world through this absurd elitest lense. Hope it makes you happy lol
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: using percentages of population as a measurement for how good someone is just doesn't make any sense, if 99% of the population is obese it doesn't mean that the 1% are amazing runners, it just means they are normal. I really don't see how you can go "oh I'm so fucking good" just because you beat a countries population of cripples in running.
99% of the population obese? See this is what i'm talking about. That's an absurd strawman. First off, if you are stacking up the performance of runners, you don't count people who don't run. That's absurd. Why would you throw in a population that isn't relevant to the stat? Yeah if you're counting all the people in the world then yes, the 99% is meaningless. There's a minimal threshold to qualify, being those who have qualified in the event as runners. This isn't beating 99% of the normal population, this is beating 99% of the athletic population who have chosen running as a sport or hobby, to use your example.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: I mean I don't know about you and the people that just want to feel good about themselves but if somebody is doing what I do 1000 times better I ain't got nothing to brag about.
I dont understand why you seem to be convinced that if anyone is better at you at something that automatically makes you bad at it. I don't know how else to illustrate that this idea falls apart in practice. Just seems to be an excuse for elitism to me.
: > [{quoted}](name=concert clown,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NcyYFg5E,comment-id=00010002,timestamp=2019-09-15T14:55:30.567+0000) > > Sure, I want to know. Name another support that can do that. {{champion:497}}, basically every single tank support,{{champion:37}} .
Rakan and Sona both would have popped instantly when that damage fell, no questions asked. Rakan has no regen outside of his Q which is practically non-existant unless its maxed. Sona's healing caps at 110 base heal with her W maxed, +25% of her AP ratio. Pyke, in this clip, healed for 60% of his HP at level 15. Pyke has a base HP at level 1 of 600 and gains 100 hp per level. Since Pyke is unable to gain HP from items we can easily assume Pyke had 2000 HP in this clip ( 600 + (14 * 100) = 2000). 60% of 2000 is 1200. Even if we give Sona 1000 AP (110 + (25% * 1000) = 360) AND give her the full 45% heal bonus from all the heal items and masteries (impossible to actually achieve in game by the way, you cannot reach 1000 AP if you've built even a single heal boost item) she still only heals for 522 (45% of 360 is 162, 360 + 162 is 522). Realistically you're going to end the game at around 400Ap with most sona builds (even the ones that have her run a seraph's). This equates to closer to 220 base with 319 being the total with the added bonus. At max rank ult with 40% cdr, her W's cooldown is 1.4 seconds. Accounting for imput delat, this means it takes around six seconds to heal 1200 hp like Pyke did. (1200 devided by 319 is 3.76, rounding to 4 casts. Four times 1.4 is 5.6, accounting for .1 seconds of imput delay is 6 seconds). This is slightly longer than Pyke took and Sona would not have been able to survive the initial burst, nor did she have the mobility to escape even if she did. Sona is the ONLY champion you mention that could MAYBE be looked at as being capable of doing what you described. Tank supports? No tank support has self healing outside of Alistar who only heals on every 7th minion death for practically nothing. His passive doesn't even amount to a Targon's proc. Tahm Kench isn't a support anymore but even his passive isn't for that much of his missing hp. And again, tahm would have been caught as he wouldn't have been able to dash away like that.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: >The threshold for the top 5% of income earners in the US puts you at just shy of $300,000, or 270,000 euros. and these people make 10 times less money than the top 1%, can you really consider someone good when they are 10 times worse than someone that's 4% above them? or 1000 times worse than someone's that is 4,9% better than them.
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sPOrGujR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-09-14T17:26:59.792+0000) > > Removing the aggro trigger entirely would make it ripe for abuse. Just walking in circles around an enemy to slowly kill them over time. It's not just 3 damage, it's 6-24 based on level. It doesn't seem like much but especially if the enemy hits you and takes minion agro, you could kill them while under turret while not actually hitting them or taking damage from the turret. Perhaps set it so that it requires a minimum of three or four damage procs before it hits. This would allow aftershock procs while limiting the abuse potential. That would be a terrible strategy. Is the opponent just going to stand there while bami does it's thing for like an entire minute? that's at least how long it would take to kill someone from half or full hp. It's damage is absurdly low against champs. The person being dove would have AMPLE opportunity to abuse any idiot who would try such a stupid move. Or, they should back and gtfo like anybody who is too low hp and about to get dove, or low hp and no mana, etc. It's no different, except that generally in a 1v1, i'd rather get dove by a tank ANYDAY, than by a diver/assassin/mobile fighter like jax, irelia, riven, kled, akali, etc. The only exception might be malphite if you're low hp and he has ult.
It seems absurd but in a game where 10 to 20 damage or a few percentage points on a scalling is enough to buff or trash a champion, it stands to reason that caution should be taken. 5 base damage was enough to bring Jhin back into the game, for example.
: QOL: Make Bami Cinder stop triggering tower aggro
Removing the aggro trigger entirely would make it ripe for abuse. Just walking in circles around an enemy to slowly kill them over time. It's not just 3 damage, it's 6-24 based on level. It doesn't seem like much but especially if the enemy hits you and takes minion agro, you could kill them while under turret while not actually hitting them or taking damage from the turret. Perhaps set it so that it requires a minimum of three or four damage procs before it hits. This would allow aftershock procs while limiting the abuse potential.
: Bingo. People finally understand the issue. Outside of defensive items like Zhonyas and Hex, any other defensive item easily just gets outscaled by one damage item. "Just build Armor vs Trynd, he wont do shit" -He buys Lord Doms and proceeds to fuck my Shen ass in less than 3 seconds even with W up- And if people want to know why Darius fucks you in the ass harder now compared to last season, its because % Pen got reworked to include base, so everyone's % Pen was changed except Yasuo's (for good reason). % Pen should have been Half Base + Half Bonus at least.
The sad part is, most dont even need dominiks. Conqueror and crit is enough to shred a tank, throw a black cleaver into the mix and you don't even need to bother with other armor pen items.
Antenora (EUW)
: https://i.gyazo.com/5f5d25aa854f3030ba32e0648013ea93.png Things like this are what put people off from playing tanks.... A 5/6 Mage with no void staff can do 55% of my health with a combo even while I have 2 Magic resist items + Conditioning rune. If I remember I also Red smited her. If she had a Void Staff then I'd say "Yeah okay that seems about right" but she doesn't.
Five kills is alot and 55% of your hp isn't too unreasonable Considering she hit everything in her kit and you took 200 damage from minions alone.. Remember, deaths don't negate gold gained. The problem is, 5/6 mages aren't doing just 55% usually. They are doing 95%. Your point is valid, I just don't agree with your example.
: Don’t forget that it also comes online earlier as well now. “Nice {{item:3068}} you have there. It’d be a shame if I rushed {{item:3071}} “
It's honestly criminal how gold efficient Black Cleaver is. It works against base armor so it's a solid damage boost to fighters, marksmen, and tanks alike. It comes online immediately with the base damage shred and scales extremely well with the total armor shred. It stacks with other BC's so theres no need to avoid it. It gives move speed and 20% cdr meaning just about every melee unit benefits from building it because it can slot into any build, and the HP it gives honestly feels like it makes you tankier than some traditional tank items like sunfire. There's no trade-off to it. Combine it with Conqueror and you can permanently remove a tank from the game with one item.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: I don't think if you've looked at the top 5% of anything before, lets take top 5% of runners in the population for example, they are just the people that regularly go for jogs and shit, they aren't good at running they're just at the top because of how fucking bad everyone else is. now if you compare em to like ussain bolt or something you'll see how shit they really are.
If you compare anyone, in anything, to the best, they will match up poorly. That is what it means to be the best. How many runners there are versus how many good runners there are is tough to quantify, so I'll use something that I -can- quantify, money. The threshold for the top 5% of income earners in the US puts you at just shy of $300,000, or 270,000 euros. By your logic, we could still consider these people poor. The top 5% of IQ scores range from 125 to 137, meaning highly gifted and capable of a doctorates degree. By your logic, we would still consider these people stupid. Sure, the farther up a skill curve you get, the more drastic the progress is. There is a larger difference between Silver 2 and Gold 2 than there is Gold 2 and Platinum 2. This does not equate to 5% being 'low elo'. Also, according to https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/rankings/rank-distribution I high-balled it. The real number is 3.53%. Master and Challenger combined make up less than half of one percent of the population and are the only tiers above it, proplay notwithstanding.
: > [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FMlKeOcb,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-14T05:41:16.364+0000) > > Yes, because the game was so much better when people were literally fighting over roles and no-one got to play anything they wanted to. Give me a break. Go play blind pick and tell me that the macro play is better there, I'll wait lol. > It's not downvotes from people who know nothing. > Your claim is absurd and you make no evidence to back it up anyway. > You basically just shouted, "SNL causes global warming" and walked away, it's just as ridiculous. hello friends, I'm player 258478843 today asking for a role swap in champ select because I'm trash at the others.
Having a main role is something even professional players do. Role select doesn't change that fact, it simply cuts the amount of fighting in the pre-game lobby over roles by around 99%. The time you would have spent figuring out what role you are even playing can be spent instead on your actual champion selection, rune page editing, and planning your lane. This means even if you play every role at the exact same skill level you still benefit on a macro level from role select.
Lost R (NA)
: I played a game (Jungle Pantheon) where we had a VERY problematic Fiddlesticks. I built Magic Resist in response and led the team in kills by a mile and a half. When I showed a screenshot of the scoreboard to someone, they went into a screaming rage over my build because "it wasn't meta", not because nobody else could score a kill or that they were absolutely dead set exclusively on teamfighting and clumping up against a goddamn FIDDLESTICKS. No, my build was apparently the only problem and what made us lose. League players, I have discovered, think in an extremely linear fashion, and force themselves and others to think in an extremely linear fashion, and only base their decisions on arbitrary meta statistics or what other people tell them they should build. Anybody who doesn't do that is branded a heretic. And then we wonder why so many young people continue to take up smoking when they are so determined to succumb to peer pressure and confirmity. [In a way, this mentality reminds me of this scene.](https://youtu.be/ynzcUw9wv0E?t=19) Without thinking about what you are facing against, without adapting as the situation is needed, by forcing yourself to stick to a single, linear path no matter what, it puts you in a position and mentality where even the minions could best you in a battle of wits without even trying.
People flamed you for a single off-meta item? Sounds about right. Why worry about team fight positioning when you can blame someone else for a single item? Case and point to what I'm talking about.
Hi im 12 (EUNE)
: >So why is it some of the basic, fundamental concepts are lost completely on players even reaching up into the diamond elo? because diamond is low elo and you don't have to be good at everything to get to it, you are missing some shit that seems very basic to other people at your elo as well, different strokes for different folks or some shit
Diamon is low elo? The top 5% of all players on the entire server, is low elo? Hello?
: oh this is easy because role select. like duh, hello? here come the down votes from people who know nothing about nothing. moderator message too for literally no reason.
Yes, because the game was so much better when people were literally fighting over roles and no-one got to play anything they wanted to. Give me a break. Go play blind pick and tell me that the macro play is better there, I'll wait lol. It's not downvotes from people who know nothing. Your claim is absurd and you make no evidence to back it up anyway. You basically just shouted, "SNL causes global warming" and walked away, it's just as ridiculous.
Xhaiden (EUNE)
: Cause humans are not like machines (who tend to perform bad only while malfunctioning). There's good days and bad days. And sometimes people try to ignore the bad days by playing LoL. That, or they're simply "not in the zone" - for some reason (more often than not - it's cause they're tilted from previous losses and they play the game mechanically at that point - just hoping for a win and go to sleep/eat/movies/whatever).
Some bad days does not explain the sheer lack of macro play period at nearly all levels of the game. Its one thing to see some poor macro decisions being made, its another to see it being overwhelmingly ignored by the community at large.
: As I see it, the problem is learning/mastering macro isn't worth it if your macro play is about your team spoiling for a fight in mid...And they just want to claim dragons. Or push bot, leaving you up in top lane hoping the enemy team goes gunning for you instead of just throwing that 6/0 {{champion:11}} at you to murder your face. Meanwhile, if you go the opposite route of focusing on your play, but also have the skill to snowball yourself into BEING that 6/0 {{champion:11}} , you can, especially if you have the champ for it, just 1v5 the enemy team and it won't matter how lame your teammates are. Personal skill is always more reliable unless you make friends and form a team and rise through Ranked together, instead of hoping Matchmaking didn't throw you into a clown fiesta and gave you teammates who can actually LISTEN WHEN SOMEONE HAS A STRATEGY! How many 'Paladins' to borrow from Riot's recent 'tilt types' fall in line when someone more skilled comes along to provide order? How many can even RECOGNIZE when someone better is speaking? That's the real problem I think.
I would argue that a coordinated team will curb stomp a 6/0 Yi easily. There's a reason I play skarner. A Yi that is just running headfirst into my team, who doesn't have a QSS because he doesn't know how to itemize, and is too far away to get help from his team? He'll die, every time, to a coordinated collapse. Happened the last game I played as I write this.
Rioter Comments
: Omg rito. Ezreal is 15/17 for winrate in adc. This is just too strong. He can’t be allowed to be this strong. Ezreal is fine. If anything he’s underperforming by a lot now because people cried “blonde boy too stronk!” Sure. Make ibg melee only. Then remove melees ability to gain ms from anything but boots. I mean it’s only fair. Range champions only have one counter to melee champion and their STRICTLY better kits and that’s to kite them. Edit - oh wait my bad. Ezreal has fallen to 16/17 for winrate. Only doing better than the champion riot SPECIFICALLY and openly keeps unplayable.
If you dont see a problem with a marksman building a tank item and seeing litterally no trade-off in damage, then your opinion isn't worth the ASCII code it took to put your words on the board. The tankier you are, the less damage you should deal. The more damage you deal, the less tanky you should be. It is litterally the oldest MMO concept in the world, why do I have to explain it to you?
Rioter Comments
: Is it just me or is the quality of the game going downhill hard
I think its the meta that has shifted so drastically the last few seasons and yet has remained stuck. What I mean by that is that you used to have a new 'class' of style of champion in each role that were in meta every few months. Bot would rotate between late game scalers, early game powerhouses, and mid-game utility. Mid used to rotate between control mages, assassins, dps mages, and snipers. Top would rotate between tanks, bruisers, and fighters. Jungle would rotate between squishy assassins to utility, etc. It's been stuck as a full damage fuckfest for over a season now. Its the first time pretty much ever that tanks as a whole class are completely worthless. Teams can build full ad and not even have to worry about armor because of how cranked up damage is. The meta is different from what its ever been yet its stayed this way for a year so its also stale. The damage is so high in the game right now its turned the game into a 'go big or go home' only style of game. There is no sit back and scale anymore. Losing lane is almost guaranteed to cost you the game. Snowballs are in each and every match and are practically a given with certain champions. Comebacks are harder than they have ever been. Supports, tanks, utility players, and team-centric picks, in general, have been nerfed into oblivion thanks to pro-play and this new damage fetish riot have now. It's world of assassins, bruisers, and juggernauts. The other dozen classes and subclasses might as well go shove it. That is why the game feels worse this season. IT is, in terms of the meta. Just like at Qiyana. An assassin with an AoE stun that she doesn't even have to hit you with, just the wall behind you. That might as well be the hallmark of the current meta.
Rioter Comments
: Riot, if you didn't remove game modes, you'd have almost about as many as Dota2
But if Riot kept other game modes up they wouldn't be able to spend as much time adding more damage to the regular mode to ruin the meta more than they already have. And we can't have that.
Stratixx (NA)
: Tahm Kench support winrate
Something is broken in another role so they gut it for the supports is a common trend. I struggle to think of a single item, champion, or keystone designed for supports that didn't get gutted entirely thanks to it being picked up in another role.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: And if you flash or dash his stun now he is out of range. ADCs are the target of assassins. of ADCs weren't so vulnerable assassins wouldn't exist. Play safe, ur not some god just because you deal dmg over time.
Alright, and what about the ADC's who aren't Tristana or Ezreal? If flash is your only counterplay, that saves you once every three full minutes. And I have some bad news for you, Pyke can engage... about fifty times more frequently than that. Then what, pretty much just Xayah with her ult? Pyke has alot of tools to get to who he needs to get to and if your team ignores him entirely you aren't going to be able to 1v1 him or even run from him in many circumstances. He's much faster, he's got CC, he's got dashes, and he's got plenty of burst. This post was never about ADC's being some kind of 'god'. The entire point is that they are vulnerable and when it comes to champs, like Pyke, the ADC needs some assistance keeping them off.
Saezio (EUNE)
: in a 5v5 teamfight the ADC was the closest person to fog of war? Sounds like great player.
Pyke has a stealth mechanic that allows him to get pretty close without even being seen. Sure you've got the visual que around your feet but it doesn't tell you which direction pyke is coming from. Regardless a good pyke is going to use that W to gap close as the move speed that it gives is going to allow him to chase you down. The E is going to come out and unless you use some sort of dash or flash the stun is going to land. snap-cast Q doesn't hook but it does slow and that is enough for him to weave and auto in and finish off with ult. Unless you have CC to lock him down mid E dash he's gonna outrun you, chase you, and kill you. Fog of war never even has to factor in.
: I don't consider new Kayle as "support".
Agreed. The fact that her passive requires so many autos and active combat to ramp up mean that she's not really gonna be able to do much but spam her heal. The Q also doesn't have the range to hit a marksman whose farming minions unless you flash and let's face it, that's a bad idea. The only thing she has going for is her ult and thats completely offset by her dependency on levels and items to scale and lack of hard CC or even reliable soft CC.
: Wait. Wasn’t {{champion:30}} op for the longest time in the jg with dark harvest and was a decent mid lander too?
Yes, he's decent because his kit is uninteractive and overall toxic. He's either broken or worthless and nothing in between. Also: you poor soul. I made this post five months ago, are you that deep in the boards or did you check my profile? lol
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CloakAndGrenade

Level 214 (NA)
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