: ... Different development teams.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=jMG8BLAE,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-06-18T23:43:59.468+0000) > > ... Different development teams. There's zero chance that work on TFT has pulled no resources away from League, particularly what at least used to be the RGM team. Some of the devs talking about working on it are the same devs who either still or previously worked on League. Do you really think they hired an entire set of new people who help find and fix bugs just for this mode?
: Opinion: "fun to play against" is the most bullshit term to ever exist
Opinion: People who say nothing is "fun to play against" are mostly people that like to play the most awful, unfun to play against stuff possible and enjoy it at least partially because it makes their opponents have less fun.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TtydEmqd,comment-id=002600000000,timestamp=2019-06-11T05:10:16.016+0000) > > They're hilariously overpriced loot box crap designed to make you feel inferior if you don't spend money on them because the people who do will have cooler, shinier ones. I don't know who Drodo is nor do I see any need to complain to a particular individual. This is a thread asking what we all think about this subject. That don't do anything. They're entirely, purely cosmetic, just like a skin. The may potentially be overpriced, but they add literally nothing to the game. DoTA's Autochess developer, Drodo, used couriers to pick up items to give them to heroes, among other things. They're the personification of the player in-game and only exist to be a neat little additional feature. What you're saying right now is basically that the Garen player who doesn't have a skin vs the enemy Rugged Garen player will feel like less of a player because of it and that's, generally speaking, not true.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TtydEmqd,comment-id=0026000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-11T05:27:25.970+0000) > > That don't do anything. They're entirely, purely cosmetic, just like a skin. The may potentially be overpriced, but they add literally nothing to the game. DoTA's Autochess developer, Drodo, used couriers to pick up items to give them to heroes, among other things. They're the personification of the player in-game and only exist to be a neat little additional feature. > > What you're saying right now is basically that the Garen player who doesn't have a skin vs the enemy Rugged Garen player will feel like less of a player because of it and that's, generally speaking, not true. I'm well aware of what the LLs are and aren't. It's fairly obvious to begin with and everything I already said about it suggests I fully understand what they are and what they aren't. It seems your issue is perhaps trouble understanding why I have an issue with them despite them being purely cosmetic. The Garen player may not feel like less of a player, but they will likely feel envy. They will feel that their LL is inferior if they don't also spend money on them, because it will be and that's obvious. Nearly every player feels that base appearance Garen is inferior to whichever of his skins they like the most. The point is that capitalism is bad and this product is selling the flimsiest nothings for hilariously high prices by taking advantage of human psychology. I don't care to get into a back and forth about the issue, I'm not here to convince you what I said is true. If you disagree you're welcome to research it on your own and I highly recommend you do.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TtydEmqd,comment-id=0026,timestamp=2019-06-11T02:50:27.760+0000) > > But mostly I hate the Little Legends aspect. It's like if capitalism had diarrhea, covered it in glitter, and tried to serve that on a platter. They're just player avatars. Complain to Drodo.
> [{quoted}](name=ChickenWrap,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=TtydEmqd,comment-id=00260000,timestamp=2019-06-11T02:56:58.654+0000) > > They're just player avatars. Complain to Drodo. They're hilariously overpriced loot box crap designed to make you feel inferior if you don't spend money on them because the people who do will have cooler, shinier ones. I don't know who Drodo is nor do I see any need to complain to a particular individual. This is a thread asking what we all think about this subject.
Bazerka (NA)
: TFT - What do y'all think?
I'm sure I'll try TFT out, but my expectations are extremely low gameplay wise. I have zero faith in Riot. But mostly I hate the Little Legends aspect. It's like if capitalism had diarrhea, covered it in glitter, and tried to serve that on a platter.
: Teamfight Tactics
Thanks! I hate it.
: reliable means able to be relied upon consistent means to produce the same results if the opponent is under the effects of brand's passive, it is consistent that if he hits his Q, it will stun it is reliable that brand can deal a lot of damage, but it is not reliable that his Q or W will hit the opponent the whole thing is a bit pointless though. Brand is a champion that is as strong as he is weak. His strengths depend upon his opponents. If they are not within range of each other, his ultimate is useless. If they are not hit by his W, a majority of his burst damage is gone. If they are not under the effects of his passive, he loses another large amount of his damage
I'm well aware that they aren't exactly the same word. They're still synonyms, or at least close enough. I could swap the two words in both examples you gave and the sentences would both still be true and mean the same thing. The point isn't to quibble about the definition of words. The point is that Xavanic took what Jerry said as 'twisting their words' when that didn't happen. Even if you consider using the words interchangeably a mistake, Jerry's doing so was at most a very minor error, not malice. Brand's cc is certainly not the most or the least reliable cc in League. It requires some set up but that set up is pretty easy to do. Most importantly his Q is still a skill shot, regardless of the ease of applying his passive to targets ahead of time. I agree with most of what you said about how he works, being too strong or too weak depending on the circumstances. Though I think it's not as simple as being dependent on his opponents. It's mostly about whether people are clumped up or not, which is complicated, though yes the opposing comp and how they play are certainly factors.
Xavanic (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Jerry SeinfeId,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=co4QiHTZ,comment-id=00010001000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-08T23:37:25.570+0000) > > yeah ok so how is other CC less reliable? Lux hits Q you're rooted, same for morg, sona is a straight skillshot, karma is a clickon, annie is a click on with similar conditions, janna is a linear skillshot (and click on but that's soft cc), etc... > > calling it reliable cc is only trying to make it sound worse than it is. kinda dirty from the op tbh. never said reliable, just said consistent, as long he's hitting spells, he he has a stun, dont ever twist my words,
Reliable is a synonym for consistent...
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=AfdVT1Eq,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-30T07:08:53.861+0000) > > I love Jhin and I love the Dark Star skin line and I do not love this skin. I feel very different about it than you do it seems. There's a LOT wrong with it to me and I honestly feel like most of it should be scrapped (despite knowing full well there's absolutely no chance of that happening). I respect this opinion, though I very much disagree with it. I'm not fond of people requesting that Riot straight up delete and replace something that could have taken them up to a year to make. Its incredibly rude, disrespectful, and unnecessary. > My biggest issue is the voice over. Jhin just isn't Jhin without certain subtle details in his voice that are very lacking with this skin. There's no hint of the beast lying in wait under a calm exterior. It's dull, drab, and disappointing. Some of it might be the acting but I think most of it is the processing and the writing. Too much turning the pitch up at the end of sentences that just takes all the weight out of so many lines. A lot of straight up poor writing (so many obtuse lines!). The echo in his voice is far too airy and light (just like Project). Some of the passionate lines are devoid of the breathy whisps and bestial snarls that clue you into the level of psychotic killer lurking within. This may come as a surprise to you, but this is a legendary skin. Its meant to show the character from a new perspective. Not so much to make them completely different, but to expand upon what is already there and to take it to the next level. This isn't the Jhin we know and love anymore. He has become something more than that. He's no mere serial killer twisting people into flowers anymore. He's a god destroying the universe. > The jokes aren't funny. The lack of whimsy on the few occasions it should exist is painful. Some of his lines are straight up cringey. Most of the pretentious lines are completely devoid of subtly. So many lines are boring, egotistical, nonsense which feels so out of place for Jhin. And throughout his emphatic lines the emphasis or the line as a whole often doesn't match up with either the trigger or purpose of the line. For example, his pentakill line is great, except that it's far too tame for a pentakill. Jhin passionately revels in the heights of his artistry. That line would be much better used for a less dramatic moment. The joke is that he thinks he's perfect, but he's just an idiot. In his other skins, he drops Whisper and almost shoots himself. In Dark Cosmic, he conjures up some stars and tries to bend them to match his image, but its not working, because he has no idea what he's doing. He thought he was better than everyone before, and now that he really is, he's not going to hold back. And I think I can explain the pentakill line... Its a pentakill line. Jhin doesn't know what 5 is. > In particular his most common lines when just moving around, killing minions, and casting his basic abilities are such a let down. They're dull at best. And as you said, there are too few common lines (his interactions with other skins seem to have eaten up a lot of his VO). Occasional whispers of madness and poetry are a hallmark of what makes Jhin aesthetically pleasing to play. But when a few lines are repeated so often and many of his better lines are an interaction with another skin that feeling is severely lacking. To be fair there are a few diamonds in the rough among his lines, but far too few. I do agree that he needs more lines, but again, this isn't our Jhin anymore. He's not going to be the same to the original in every way possible. > The next biggest issue I have with the skin is the entire tone of the visuals, particularly the colors. It's too bright! This is supposed to be DARK Cosmic Jhin, not Pastel Purple Jhin. His outfit is a slew of different colors but they are nearly all brighter than even the splash art shows, which itself I feel is a little too bright. The lack of darkness both literal and metaphorical is an issue not only with the model but the effects as well. So many pretty sparkly stars... This is *Dark Cosmic Jhin!* This skin should be so edgy you can split hairs with it. The lore for this skin is that he was once a Cosmic that became corrupted by the Dark Star. I believe he is the "perfect corruption", being a perfect balance of the power of Cosmic and the Dark Star. So, it makes sense that some of his abilities are bright, because those come from his Cosmic side. > Also, why four arms? Is it really just because "4"? The other arms seem to serve no interesting purpose and they screw up his silhouette, making him look oddly bulky yet scrawny at the same time. It'd be better if he just had two but those two left visual trails sometimes that look like his current two extra ghostly arms. Jhin's true face has always been that of a monster. The fact that he has 4 arms shows how inhuman he is. I also believe it might serve to make him look like a butterfly, as his cloak looks like wings, and the extra arms serve to make him look more like an insect. Also, some deities are portrayed as having multiple arms. If Jhin is a god, I'd imagine he's going all-out to appear as powerful as possible. > The splash art barely even features destruction, something that should be a key theme for this skin, yet is nearly entirely absent. It should make you feel like Dark Star Thresh's splash art does at least. The 4 pointed star on his forehead should just be deleted along with his ghostly arms. The thing on his shoulder is a little too big. Why is he wading through a glowy oil spill and turning a lone grey lump of a planet into a ring instead bringing oblivion to stars and more? Because those planets are probably all that's left. The "glowy oil spill" is probably the remnants of a star he used to paint his path. The star on his forehead is probably another remnant of his days as a pure Cosmic. Again, the multiple arms show that he isn't just some man in the sky. > As a whole the skin reminds me heavily of the Morgana visual update and I mean that in the most, "please throw it in the trash, light it on fire, and start over" way possible. Again, this point is incredibly rude and unnecessary. No artist wants to hear this about their work, and none deserve to. As an artist myself, I find it a bit personally insulting, and "opinions" like this are really what stopped me from perusing a career in art in the first place. It pains me to see people be such ungrateful, such spoiled... Brats, really, that they'd actively wish for something they don't like to be deleted just so they can get something that _they_ want.
>This may come as a surprise to you, but this is a legendary skin. Its meant to show the character from a new perspective. Not so much to make them completely different, but to expand upon what is already there and to take it to the next level. This isn't the Jhin we know and love anymore. He has become something more than that. He's no mere serial killer twisting people into flowers anymore. He's a god destroying the universe. He's clearly intentionally based on Jhin's serial killer nature but on a cosmic scale. Many of his lines are even half of a base skin line but then half changed to fit the context of cosmic stuff. There's no need to diverge him in weird ways that don't add anything positive or interesting and I don't think they intended to. It really just feels like a failure to capture Jhin's underlying aspects, despite an effort to do so. >The joke is that he thinks he's perfect, but he's just an idiot. In his other skins, he drops Whisper and almost shoots himself. In Dark Cosmic, he conjures up some stars and tries to bend them to match his image, but its not working, because he has no idea what he's doing. He thought he was better than everyone before, and now that he really is, he's not going to hold back. And I think I can explain the pentakill line... Its a pentakill line. Jhin doesn't know what 5 is. I don't lack an understanding of the joke. It just isn't funny. Similarly I don't lack an understanding of the pentakill line, it just doesn't fit. If your character says a line when you get a pentakill that line should match the excitement that players feel when they get a pentakill at least somewhat. His line is just... underwhelming considering the trigger. It's a great line though, well written and delivered. But it should trigger from something else. >The lore for this skin is that he was once a Cosmic that became corrupted by the Dark Star. I believe he is the "perfect corruption", being a perfect balance of the power of Cosmic and the Dark Star. So, it makes sense that some of his abilities are bright, because those come from his Cosmic side. It's a skin, the lore does not justify the appearance. The lore comes after the appearance and explains the look that's already been decided on (or at least skins can and often are done that way, I'm sure there are others done as you said but it's still a choice, not a requirement). It's a little different at times with skin lines because there is already existing lore. But this bit of lore is specific to Jhin and thus not required so it's not *why* he looks the way he does. >Jhin's true face has always been that of a monster. The fact that he has 4 arms shows how inhuman he is. I also believe it might serve to make him look like a butterfly, as his cloak looks like wings, and the extra arms serve to make him look more like an insect. Also, some deities are portrayed as having multiple arms. If Jhin is a god, I'd imagine he's going all-out to appear as powerful as possible. The point of Jhin is that his inhumanity is mental. He was born and still is a human physically. It's part of what makes such people terrifying. Knowing that despite the monster within, ultimately they are human, they are one of us, anyone could be one. With this skin it's a little different because he isn't human, but neither are the other characters in the skin line. They're all some kind of cosmic being. It's pretty clear that he's also a cosmic being even without the extra arms. Making him "not just a fellow cosmic being" on the outside would be like making Jhin "not just another human" on the outside with his base appearance. The extra arms make his torso look bulky, add nothing positive, and seem out of place. His inhumanity should come through in the way he acts and what he says. That should be key to any version of Jhin who is still a psycho killer, even if it's on a cosmic scale. >Because those planets are probably all that's left. The "glowy oil spill" is probably the remnants of a star he used to paint his path. That has to be guessed at best because the picture certainly doesn't imply that on its own. The star thing could have been shown to be true in the picture, but it isn't, so we're just guessing. Seems like a missed opportunity at best. >Again, this point is incredibly rude and unnecessary. No artist wants to hear this about their work, and none deserve to. As an artist myself, I find it a bit personally insulting, and "opinions" like this are really what stopped me from perusing a career in art in the first place. It pains me to see people be such ungrateful, such spoiled... Brats, really, that they'd actively wish for something they don't like to be deleted just so they can get something that they want. My post isn't addressed to the artists. If it was it would indeed be different. If I decide to make a post addressed to Riot at all I'll make my own thread or respond to a Rioter directly. I am aware that yes Rioters could come here and see my post. But players deserve a place to speak to each other candidly about these things in this way. And on top of that, me making a perfectly well written, entirely constructive and detailed post about what I feel should be changed would still result in precisely nothing being done about it. And most of all, my post is in fact highly constructive. Yes it includes that part at the end, but even that doesn't include any insults towards people. Nothing about my post indicates being spoiled. If I was a spoiled brat about the issue I'd be demanding things, saying how Riot sucks, never gives us anything good, ect. It's not being spoiled to ask for something better in this case. Especially seeing as how this is a thing people have to pay for. It's not rude to call a failure a failure. This skin is a failure to capture the essence of Jhin. It's not a complete failure, it did some stuff right and even the mistakes aren't entirely off the mark. But it's still a failure. I *know* Riot can and does do amazing stuff. I think the Shaco and Karma skins are awesome. Jhin's base everything is really awesome. *That's why I'm so disappointed.* Project and Dark Star are my favorite skin lines and Jhin is my favorite character. Project and Dark Star Jhin are both so bad I'm never going to buy them. I was hyped about both before I even knew they were going to be a thing. And I know Riot could do them really well in ways I would love. I've read how and why Jhin was made the way he was, so I know that at least some people at Riot truly understand the character and what makes him awesome and yet here we are... The technical aspects of Dark Star Jhin are great. The stars are pretty. The model is well made and animated. The effects are technically sound and visually pleasing. The lines are well acted. The problem is the design and the writing. It feels like it was done by people who don't really get Jhin well enough. And that's pretty understandable and unsurprising. But that doesn't lessen my disappointment or make it any more deserving of going live. "Please start over" is a bit extreme for this skin, and it really doesn't need that, though it does need a lot of changes. I could've said something more appropriate about it than that, and for that I apologize. It certainly was a bit of hyperbole. But it still didn't come with any malice or insult to people. Jhin will always be a very tough champion to make quality skins for if it involves any change to his VO. This is skin is nowhere near as far off the mark as that. But the Morgana update is so far off the mark that that isn't saying a lot either. Probably the most disappointing thing about all this to me is that I know most players will love it. It will be praised and heralded a success. It will make plenty of money. People will defend its mistakes. I'm far more disappointed in humanity than I am in some skin or Morgana's stupid neck and butt wings.
Sirhaian (NA)
: VFX Updates for Amumu, Lulu, Tryndamere and Ziggs
Don't like the new Amumu ult color at all. Looks very out of place for him. I get why green might not work great on summoner's rift, but... yellow? And as others have said it feels a little empty and the middle maybe disappears a little too fast. His E looks like it might cover up other stuff slightly too much. Like everything else a lot though. Some sweet clarity improvements for sure! Love the Lulu changes! The sparkles on the P and Q are wonderfully pretty, as they should be. Only issue I see is the purple at the feet of the person with her E shield should probably be a tiny bit less opaque. The R clarity improvement is superb. Lots of great clarity improvements on Tryndamere! Any chance Mad Scientist Ziggs could get a different visual for his W satchel? I know it's probably asking too much but... pretty please?! Or at least recolor it to be green to match the rest of the skin? I'm not a fan of the R explosion visual at all. It feels like a giant blob more than a fiery explosion. As someone else said the sound is also a little lacking. Snow Day's E minefield is still a little too hard to see, especially on ARAM's Howling Abyss map and the winter Summoner's Rift. It's too hard to see the mines sitting there as well as the explosions when you walk over them.
: Dark Cosmic Jhin Final Verdict
I love Jhin and I love the Dark Star skin line and I do not love this skin. I feel very different about it than you do it seems. There's a LOT wrong with it to me and I honestly feel like most of it should be scrapped (despite knowing full well there's absolutely no chance of that happening). My biggest issue is the voice over. Jhin just isn't Jhin without certain subtle details in his voice that are very lacking with this skin. There's no hint of the beast lying in wait under a calm exterior. It's dull, drab, and disappointing. Some of it might be the acting but I think most of it is the processing and the writing. Too much turning the pitch up at the end of sentences that just takes all the weight out of so many lines. A lot of straight up poor writing (so many obtuse lines!). The echo in his voice is far too airy and light (just like Project). Some of the passionate lines are devoid of the breathy whisps and bestial snarls that clue you into the level of psychotic killer lurking within. The jokes aren't funny. The lack of whimsy on the few occasions it should exist is painful. Some of his lines are straight up cringey. Most of the pretentious lines are completely devoid of subtly. So many lines are boring, egotistical, nonsense which feels so out of place for Jhin. And throughout his emphatic lines the emphasis or the line as a whole often doesn't match up with either the trigger or purpose of the line. For example, his pentakill line is great, except that it's far too tame for a pentakill. Jhin passionately revels in the heights of his artistry. That line would be much better used for a less dramatic moment. In particular his most common lines when just moving around, killing minions, and casting his basic abilities are such a let down. They're dull at best. And as you said, there are too few common lines (his interactions with other skins seem to have eaten up a lot of his VO). Occasional whispers of madness and poetry are a hallmark of what makes Jhin aesthetically pleasing to play. But when a few lines are repeated so often and many of his better lines are an interaction with another skin that feeling is severely lacking. To be fair there are a few diamonds in the rough among his lines, but far too few. The next biggest issue I have with the skin is the entire tone of the visuals, particularly the colors. It's too bright! This is supposed to be DARK Cosmic Jhin, not Pastel Purple Jhin. His outfit is a slew of different colors but they are nearly all brighter than even the splash art shows, which itself I feel is a little too bright. The lack of darkness both literal and metaphorical is an issue not only with the model but the effects as well. So many pretty sparkly stars... This is *Dark Cosmic Jhin!* This skin should be so edgy you can split hairs with it. Also, why four arms? Is it really just because "4"? The other arms seem to serve no interesting purpose and they screw up his silhouette, making him look oddly bulky yet scrawny at the same time. It'd be better if he just had two but those two left visual trails sometimes that look like his current two extra ghostly arms. The splash art barely even features destruction, something that should be a key theme for this skin, yet is nearly entirely absent. It should make you feel like Dark Star Thresh's splash art does at least. The 4 pointed star on his forehead should just be deleted along with his ghostly arms. The thing on his shoulder is a little too big. Why is he wading through a glowy oil spill and turning a lone grey lump of a planet into a ring instead bringing oblivion to stars and more? As a whole the skin reminds me heavily of the Morgana visual update and I mean that in the most, "please throw it in the trash, light it on fire, and start over" way possible.
: It turns a 5v5 into a 4v4 for 7 seconds. You are taking yourself and an enemy out of the fight, strategically, it's best to target a champion with a lot of peel to take out of a teamfight.
It's not really about turning a 5v5 into a 4v4. It's about how awful it feels to be the 1 picked who has no hope in the 1v1 vs Morde and have to just accept your slow death as you try to at least hit him for some damage before you die. That's not always going to be how it goes, but that won't erase how awful it will feel when it does go that way. After watching the Voyboy video showcasing his gameplay I gotta say that Riot certainly did a lot of things right to make it not so awful, such as towers still being there and fighting in the shadow realm. But it still seems like it's gonna cause a lot of frustration, especially any time an enemy Morde wins lane and just starts flash + Ring people for guaranteed kills, making everyone on the enemy team feel worthless and hopeless just because the one lane on their team lost.
Krinu (NA)
: Poppy's old ult was supposed to be a "you and I will fight, and I have an advantage" but it rapidly turned into "I'm going to ult the support, completely ignore them, and run around invincible for eight seconds and nobody can stop me." Morde's new ult is a far better version of "you and I are going to fight now, and nobody can interfere or stop us."
Sure, but does that make it good design? I'll have to reserve judgement till I see it in action a bit, but I have a strong feeling it's going to generate a lot of hate.
: Morde is simply perfect.
Isn't his new ult basically the old Poppy ult, which is a bad design? I haven't seen it in action, only read the description, so maybe it's somehow not awful but I'm very skeptical about it.
: Low Elo Players in High Elo Placements
The freshly placed Gold 1 thing is a problem, but what do win streaks and win rates have to do with anything here? People on win streaks are not more likely to keep winning and vice versa in regards to loss streaks. People with a low win rate right now are probably more skilled than most at their current MMR but have just had some bad luck, if anything them being on your team makes you more likely to win, and again vice versa (high win rate people are more likely to lose). The problem is the exceptions, people who were boosted and now losing a ton and smurfs who are below where they should be and winning a ton. But as far as I know they are the tiny minority.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kp1FytKV,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-05-25T19:10:09.989+0000) > > Your thread title is the classic "black or white" fallacy. The answer is not either A or B, it's A and B, both are factors. > > If you feel that one factor shouldn't be a factor or that the degree to which they matter is wrong that's fine. I personally think the luck of who you get as team mates is far too large a factor and your own personal skill far too small as well as context dependent a factor. See the problem is the lower the Elo the more you skill shows, the higher the elo the less your skill shows. If you're good you can solo carry in a lot of game's below G3 with strong champion, but the higher you go the more you need your team as player slowly start match your skill.
> [{quoted}](name=Son of spartar,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=kp1FytKV,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-05-25T19:23:25.704+0000) > > See the problem is the lower the Elo the more you skill shows, the higher the elo the less your skill shows. If you're good you can solo carry in a lot of game's below G3 with strong champion, but the higher you go the more you need your team as player slowly start match your skill. I STRONGLY disagree. While that may be the case for some people it most certainly is not the case for everyone. A player's skill is not as simple as some number you can assign that player that denotes how good they are. People are differently skilled at different aspects of the game. Some people are very good at high level team play and thus thrive in higher tiers of play because their teammates are far more likely to be somewhat reliable (people show up to objectives, follow up on engages, go to the correct lane as the game shifts to midgame, that sort of thing). If a player is good in that area but not capable of highly mechanical play or even simply doesn't enjoy (and thus doesn't play) highly mechanical champions it be can be harder for them to win in low ELO games than in high ELO games on average. And really it's far more complicated than that, but that's an easy example most can understand.
: So is climbing based on skill or is based on whom you get as team mates?
Your thread title is the classic "black or white" fallacy. The answer is not either A or B, it's A and B, both are factors. If you feel that one factor shouldn't be a factor or that the degree to which they matter is wrong that's fine. I personally think the luck of who you get as team mates is far too large a factor and your own personal skill far too small as well as context dependent a factor.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mq2UgHwI,comment-id=0003000100000001,timestamp=2019-05-22T03:51:29.603+0000) > > You're putting legality over morality. Do what's morally right, that's it. If that means letting employees out of contracts they signed then you do it. If that means not killing people, you don't kill people. If it means not stealing just cause you want something, you don't steal that thing. If it means you steal cause you need to, you steal. > > Say it with me: > Laws. Are. Not. Inherently. Moral. > Do. What's. Right! > {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}} Why do you think that everyone has the same morality as you? That everyone sees what you see as Moral as Moral, and what you see as Immoral as immoral. How old are you out of curiosity, and what's your sex/gender? I'm seriously curious what's your story given the nativity you have. Like, you seem as a good person, but a very naive good person. Generally wisdom comes with age, but I've seen older idiots of both genders so, I wouldn't be surprised if you're like 40yo guy. Nor a 15yo girl. just genuinely curious.
> [{quoted}](name=Serika Zero,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mq2UgHwI,comment-id=00030001000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-22T04:53:48.601+0000) > > Why do you think that everyone has the same morality as you? > That everyone sees what you see as Moral as Moral, and what you see as Immoral as immoral. At no point did my post even suggest that I think everyone has the same morality as me. Notice how my sentences posing situations of morality all start with, "If that means" or "If it means." What I said was about the fact that legality and morality are different things and suggesting that Riot should or shouldn't do something based solely on legality is wrong.
: > [{quoted}](name=hoganftw,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mq2UgHwI,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-05-21T17:32:31.827+0000) > > muh contract > > nah bro, we not doing this in 2019. Man I sure wish we could all handwave laws like you seem to do. Thievery and murder? Muh laws bro, who cares about legality in 2019 am I right?
> [{quoted}](name=I love cowboys,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Mq2UgHwI,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2019-05-21T18:41:39.994+0000) > > Man I sure wish we could all handwave laws like you seem to do. > > Thievery and murder? Muh laws bro, who cares about legality in 2019 am I right? You're putting legality over morality. Do what's morally right, that's it. If that means letting employees out of contracts they signed then you do it. If that means not killing people, you don't kill people. If it means not stealing just cause you want something, you don't steal that thing. If it means you steal cause you need to, you steal. Say it with me: Laws. Are. Not. Inherently. Moral. Do. What's. Right! {{sticker:sg-ahri-2}}
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HY6VgARb,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-19T21:57:29.317+0000) > > Autofill does not automatically mean losing. I've won plenty of games where I and/or other people on my team were autofilled. Autofill is required to allow position choice to exist at all. > > There are two alternatives, both of which have been tried before. In one, people just took positions based on pick order and thus every game gives the majority of players a semi random position, essentially causing even more autofill. The other was called team builder, and was similar to what we have now but without autofill, and queue times for popular roles were insanely high while queue times for unpopular roles were nearly instant. We have what we have right now for good reason. I believe that what we have right now is almost perfect but in low ELO it becomes hard to climb A few weeks ago I played Yasuo and was at 13 cs per minute, but the second I left lane I was one shot by a 19 / 2 Xayah which my Auto filled bot lane fed and she ended the game with 30 + kills even though she had like 50 cs at 40 minutes In lower MMR brackets an auto fill almost always garuntees an instant win or lost Last week I had a bot laner who said " mid won't swap so IDC " and " the best way to make your team lose is inting them lmao " Riot didn't ban them so I played a few more games then quit this game of 4 years last week and don't plan on returning, Minecraft has been very enjoyable lately Here is the game for reference https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3040712722/242976320?tab=overview
> [{quoted}](name=Galaxyburstz,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=HY6VgARb,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-19T22:45:32.124+0000) > > I believe that what we have right now is almost perfect but in low ELO it becomes hard to climb > > A few weeks ago I played Yasuo and was at 13 cs per minute, but the second I left lane I was one shot by a 19 / 2 Xayah which my Auto filled bot lane fed and she ended the game with 30 + kills even though she had like 50 cs at 40 minutes > > In lower MMR brackets an auto fill almost always garuntees an instant win or lost > > Last week I had a bot laner who said " mid won't swap so IDC " and " the best way to make your team lose is inting them lmao " > > Riot didn't ban them so I played a few more games then quit this game of 4 years last week and don't plan on returning, Minecraft has been very enjoyable lately > > Here is the game for reference > https://matchhistory.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/#match-details/NA1/3040712722/242976320?tab=overview You've come to understand pieces of some of the issues involved, but it's far more complex in total. In all MMR brackets an auto fill is not remotely a guaranteed instant win or loss. Some autofills are, some are not. You've won games where someone on your team was autofilled and you just never knew about it. You've lost games where no one on your team was autofilled but someone on the enemy team was autofilled. But you've also had games like the one you mentioned. You have no way of knowing who is autofilled or how important that is. Even if someone says they were autofilled, they could be lying (yes there are people that do this). Some people are pretty good at 3-4 roles but not the remaining 1-2 so them being autofilled is either of little importance or very important depending on the context. Yes the system is flawed and yes on average autofilled players win less, but it's so far away from autofill = loss that describing it that way isn't even hyperbole, it's just wrong. Report players who make it clear they are sabotaging the game, whether in League or other games. Maybe you reported the person you mentioned, I don't know. Player behavior systems are far from perfect in any game, but in most games reporting players who sabotage games is worth the effort by the person doing the reporting, even if it doesn't result in that player being banned just due to that report. Enjoy Mincecraft. Stay away from League. That is a good decision, seriously.
: Autofill
Autofill does not automatically mean losing. I've won plenty of games where I and/or other people on my team were autofilled. Autofill is required to allow position choice to exist at all. There are two alternatives, both of which have been tried before. In one, people just took positions based on pick order and thus every game gives the majority of players a semi random position, essentially causing even more autofill. The other was called team builder, and was similar to what we have now but without autofill, and queue times for popular roles were insanely high while queue times for unpopular roles were nearly instant. We have what we have right now for good reason.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eak7Kd7P,comment-id=0053,timestamp=2019-05-09T02:20:02.606+0000) > > This thread is a bunch of players giving you the feedback that at least for them, it's not better. I know you *know* that already. But I'm pointing it out because I want you to *feel* that and to remember it. > > The entire rating and match making system is massively flawed and not a good fit for League. Totally agree that for some people the system doesn't work. That why I am here reading and talking about it because we want to make it better. But it also does work for a lot of people. There are many many players that enjoy the ranked experience. That doesn't mean we can't improve. Definitely learning a lot front this thread.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot MoreChrono,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Eak7Kd7P,comment-id=00530000,timestamp=2019-05-09T04:30:45.018+0000) > > Totally agree that for some people the system doesn't work. That why I am here reading and talking about it because we want to make it better. But it also does work for a lot of people. There are many many players that enjoy the ranked experience. That doesn't mean we can't improve. Definitely learning a lot front this thread. I don't think it "works" for anyone because it doesn't make fair matches for anyone. Sure fair =/= fun, just as engagement =/= fun. I certainly agree that a lot of people play ranked. But I don't think that should be the main goal of a matchmaking system. A matchmaking system should be fair as the primary goal of its existence. Then you design the rest of the game to be fun within that fair system. Why? Because it's what players expect, and reasonably so. If you plastered big signs in the client saying, "our matchmaking system is inherently very unfair" you'd get a lot less people using it and a lot of demand to change it. But by not putting up such signs Riot is essentially profiting off of being dishonest with players, because players assume the purpose of such a system includes that primary goal of being fair. All of that is further complicated by the fact that even Rioters don't seem to understand the degree to which the system is so massively unfair. Riot isn't necessarily being deceitful on purpose. But it is still a deception, and it's one that's *highly* influenced by the fact that Riot is a business in a capitalist society. Getting more people to play doesn't mean it's a better game unless you only consider *better* to equal more profitable. Your response that many players enjoy the ranked experience is a product of that. Even the best system could be better. The question is, "is the system Riot uses reasonable?" To which the answer is a very strong, "NO." Not because it doesn't meet some arbitrary standard of satisfaction rating in surveys, but because there are obviously better systems that are easy to find. But again it comes back to $$. Making the game better doesn't necessarily mean it makes more money, especially in the short term, and Riot is gonna go with the standard response that nearly every big company with big investors does and be timid and safe to keep raking in that cash until the cracks get so big they can't be papered over anymore and it fails.
: And yet it is dodgeable 100% of the time. Just because it gets referenced in "pop culture" doesn't make it broken.
That's not the point at all. Complaints aren't just about things that are broken. They're about things that are unfun. Her Q duration is unfun. And it's also way too much of her power budget. It's why she can't feel good in lane in mid. It's why she's such a team fighter and why she's favored as a support.
: @RiotGames Please Do something About this
>It's not perfect, but we believe the player experience is better in the long run. This thread is a bunch of players giving you the feedback that at least for them, it's not better. I know you *know* that already. But I'm pointing it out because I want you to *feel* that and to remember it. The entire rating and match making system is massively flawed and not a good fit for League.
: I'd be cool with having faster W tics and lower duration Q. But I don't think anyone honestly complains about anything but the blackshield.
>I don't think anyone honestly complains about anything but the blackshield. That's not the case at all. The biggest complaint about Morgana since the game began has been her Q root duration. There are many entire youtube videos referencing and often making fun of how long it is. Here's one for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TzE8_iABxto
: @RiotGames Please Do something About this
A rating system for a team game with different players on your team each game that works based on wins and losses alone is inherently a dumpster fire. "My random players did worse than the other side's random players so now the system thinks I'm worse" is hilariously awful design. With regular partial rating resets you can't even beat the awfulness of the system by playing such a huge number of games that it becomes at least loosely correct. It's a system that cannot possibly create fair and fun games except by randomly stumbling into them on occasion. Games as a whole need to use better systems, and yes they do exist (a few even use them already). They aren't problem free either, but they are *better.*
: What if we made black shield only able to target Morgana?
What she needs is a lower duration on her Q root and a slightly lower rank 2-5 base damage on Q as well. Also her W should do the same damage over 1 less second (so more per tick), do more base and less missing hp based damage, be a slightly smaller area, and cost less mana (overall similar changes to Lux's E a while back). But Riot doesn't want to make Morgana primarily a mid and secondary a support. They let her shift to support a long time ago and are afraid of how many people would quit because she isn't really a support anymore. Or at least that's how they would feel if they realized they could make her a mid primarily (and overall far healthier champion to play as and against) to begin with.
: How come riot only punishes the one type of toxicity that can be remedied with one click of a button
>How come riot only [does the thing that I know is far easier to do]? Seems like you already knew the answer all along...
: Animation Storyboard worth watching.
I'm honestly underwhelmed by this... I'm sure it took a lot of hard work and the art seems good for a storyboard but the action seems like typical anime nonsense. Most of the individual fights on their own seem fine enough but for me the silliness of an army running at one guy that somehow magically turns into a slew of 1v1s for a minute and a half is just too immersion breaking even for a storyboard. Maybe that's not really important to it though, I don't know. If it's just an attempt to show off different camera angels and specific action shots and all that then my more useful feedback is that there are a few too many needlessly up close shots of attacks and a few too many cuts overall. Also it could use a couple sweet slowmo shots from far enough away to see both sides jumping/swinging/whatever at each other at the same time.
F3BR3 (NA)
: "The key change is shifting phantom hit from every second hit to every third hit" What about making those changes ONLY for ranged champions? That would fix a lot of problems.
{{champion:11}} No {{champion:11}} it {{champion:11}} would {{champion:11}} not. {{champion:11}}
: Thank you so much for your answer, also, if I may give my opinion, I do believe Diana doesn't need a buff for her late game, she is very powerful once she has the core items she needs and she can even destroy people without using her Q. However, her beginning is truly a hell, I just wished her E did more than just pull targets towards her and slow for 2 seconds, is it possible that you revert the attack speed that you took away from her passive ? Having some AS after casting a spell, who the hell will auto attack 3 times after casting a spell then again 3 auto attacks then another spell, etc. It kinda doesn't make any sense.
She can straight up 100-0 turret dive people pre 6 right now. I'm not sure how you can buff her early game without some bigger changes to her playstyle that just fundamentally change who she is as a champion.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 3
While I appreciate the direction you're going with rageblade, because yeah it's definitely too impactful for some champions, I still think the correct decision is to delete it. If it's good enough at what it does to be worth buying for any champion, it's too game altering for that champion to be healthy. If it's healthy, it's not worth including in the game.
Bazerka (NA)
: Question: How do you view Riot?
Elon Musk is not "of the people." He's just another profiteer fleecing the people while lying to himself about how the world works.
: I have to change my name because it is deemed as "inappropriate"
The amount of time you had the name doesn't matter, but the idea that names aren't allowed to be sexual at all is absurd. If that's Riot's policy that policy needs to change. It's fine for them to draw a line of "too explicit to be allowed," even if that line is a little fuzzy. But outright not allowing anything sexual, especially something as innocuous as "sexual girl" is just dumb.
: Early 9.10 Patch Discussion
I appreciate the idea that what Vayne, Yi, and Riven need long term are changes to make them less frustrating. However, until that work is completed, they need nerfs *right now.* I don't care if it's just some super blunt -X AD nerf that gets reverted when their longer term work is completed, that would be fine. But the very high frustration that comes from playing against them is happening *right now* so a nerf to them also needs to happen *right now* and I'm not seeing any kind of acknowledgement of that in your post. Waiting another month or more before they receive any changes is not acceptable. No changes to them over the last month is already well past acceptable...
Reav3 (NA)
: I want to take a minute to answer this from my perspective. First of all our intentions of doing less VGUs and more New Champs was actually based on caring for the playerbase as well as from player feedback we have gotten over the years as we have done New Champs and VGUs. Let me go into a bit more detail though. First when I said less VGUs I didnt mean we would stop doing them, I just meant we would slow down. Expect to still see plenty of VGUs in the future, just not as many as we have been doing last year. The reason why I feel that his is coming from a caring place is this. There are many players that share your perspective, that they want their main updated, and changed. But you have to understand there are also many other players that love their Champion, and find it very frustrating when they are updated even if many other players think the update makes them way better. We have to care about these players as well, and whenever we do VGUs we also cause a lot of disruption and frustration from players over their Champion being changed. New Champions generally don't cause this player pain. Last year we actually saw a lot higher player frustration over change, partly due to how many old Champions we were updating and changing, with many older players feeling alienated by the changes. At this point, after Morde, many of the Champions we would consider for a VGU have much higher players bases then the Champions we were doing VGUs on in the past. This isn't to say there isn't value in doing them, but if we were doing them at the rate we were doing them last year, on Champions with bigger player bases, then that is many more players that would feel frustrated or alienated by the changes, even if many other players like them. This isn't to say we want to stop doing them as we feel there is value in the game feeling modern and up to date, which means we value updating the things that are getting old and dated. The Champions on the list just aren't as dated as some of the ones we did over the last couple years, and as a result the value in updating them isn't as high, and also has a higher disruption and player pain cost since the Champions have bigger player bases.
If you want to frustrate less players Riot has to do a better job. Yeah there's always going to be some amount of backlash to change, but the quality of the change absolutely affects how much backlash there is. As someone who is very unhappy with the VGU their main got I can assure you I was totally up for change. In fact I wanted more change than Riot was willing to do. But bad change is bad. Butt wings are stupid. Riot can do so much better than amateur hour writing. And worst of all, Riot seems to have no idea how to actually balance Morgana, especially mid lane where I primarily play her. So many, "her kit is largely fine as is" remarks were suddenly replaced with talk of, "uninteractive wave clear" all of which shows a big misunderstanding of the champion. The saddest part is Riot was aware of the potential wave clear issue... years ago, but seems to have forgotten completely. It makes sense that the devs can't have a really deep understanding of every aspect of every champion due to sheer numbers. All the more reason making so many more is a problem. I feel like even 1 new champion a year pushes the limits pretty hard on Riot being able to actually manage the roster. There are so many major problems with so many new champions and VGUs alike. I'd rather see all of that fixed than see new champions. But alas, Riot's in the business of selling cosmetics and such, not making the best game possible.
Haze97 (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lvouEAz2,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-04-21T07:47:40.533+0000) > > You obviously deserve the chat restriction. People like you are the biggest source of toxicity in the game. So you support the shit matchmaking and have no problem with it?
> [{quoted}](name=Haze97,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=lvouEAz2,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-04-21T08:25:56.075+0000) > > So you support the shit matchmaking and have no problem with it? I bet your win rate vs straw men is really high.
: Riot games is the source of all toxicity
You obviously deserve the chat restriction. People like you are the biggest source of toxicity in the game.
: I feel Zed is not a problem but the whole concept of lethality and how the game revolves around it.
Zed was a problem before lethality existed so I'm gonna have to disagree with you on that. I'm not saying lethality is fine or that current itemization is fine, but at the very least Zed is also a problem.
: Seriously. The only people who were complaining about ARAM bans were people with ARAM accounts.
My account is not an ARAM account, I play a lot of ARAM, I don't want bans in ARAM and in fact complained about it having bans. Your thread title is hyperbolic to say the least. I do fully support having all champions unlocked in ARAM. I think the problem with doing so is people newer to the game having a lot of games in a row where they are on champions they have literally never played before. I'd be ok with some kind of system that eases accounts below a certain level into having all champions unlocked in ARAM to help with that, but I'm not really sure it's even needed. In the game you shared the picture from I'd take the team on the bottom over the team on the top as long as I wasn't the one with Kalista (can't stand playing as her due to her passive). Sure Xerath is a monster but Lulu + 2 great ARAM adcs is nuts, Nidalee is strong, and Ornn is very good and brings the comp together. Meanwhile LeBlanc is meh, Fiddle and Skarner are meh if you aren't greedy or stupid, and Kindred is good but not Lucian or Kalista levels of good. ARAM needs to give players time to adjust summoners and runes after seeing the enemy champs to add a lot of balance and counterplay to the mode. The problem with that is all the people who will dodge during that window because they see something like Lux + Xerath on the enemy team despite the fact that they probably would've won that match in many cases.
iTaLenTZ (EUW)
: Hypothesis on why matchmaking is so bad
>It can't be that everyone around me and myself have stopped playing League but the game is still growing. Yes, it can be exactly that. In fact it's very common in gaming and hobbies for that sort of thing to happen. I don't know if League is in decline in regards to number of players, but I suspect that it is, at least in North America and Europe. But I don't *know* that it is.
: Post MSI Gameplay Improvements
Any chance Morgana can be actually allowed to go mid and be successful?
Urgash (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YYb1RIl6,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-04-10T09:16:26.643+0000) > > If Riot really wants to force the game to end at a certain point I'd much prefer the Nexus Death Match thing Nexus Blitz used where the nexus gets up and fights the other nexus. i don't know, it felt very forced to me to have nexus walking in the middle of the map. Most of the time people wouldn't even hit the goddamn nexus even when it was walking toward you, and with a few deaths just before the time limit you were just doomed. Not sure this is something i want in ARAM.
I prefer just letting games end naturally. But Riot seems to want to force games to end by a certain point. If it's gotta end somehow, I prefer the death match thing over just more and faster minions. At least right now. If I had to play with it a bunch I might change my mind. >Most of the time people wouldn't even hit the goddamn nexus even when it was walking toward you, and with a few deaths just before the time limit you were just doomed. I had a variety of experiences with it in nexus blitz. Mostly people seemed to get that you should hit it, though at times I saw people hit each other instead of it even though they had no hope of killing the enemy player in time for that to be worthwhile. But people had to learn how fast it dies to make those kinds of calls, so I assume most of them just didn't have enough experience with it to make those calls well yet. Definitely agree that a few deaths just before it happens felt pretty rough, but that's another thing that people could (at least theoretically) learn to play around somewhat. Might be a bit harder with the lack of ability to recall, heal up, and shop one last time at the fountain though...
Urgash (EUW)
: Feedback from an ARAM Main on 9.7 experimental changes
If Riot really wants to force the game to end at a certain point I'd much prefer the Nexus Death Match thing Nexus Blitz used where the nexus gets up and fights the other nexus. The current Nexus turrets can barely even be considered as existing at all right now. Their damage could be doubled, HP tripled, and I'm pretty sure a lot of people wouldn't even notice for a while if it wasn't in the patch notes. Also I love ARAM games where you struggle for a while, reach your late game potential, and make the triumphant come back. But I've also seen how a lot of players refuse to even try if the early game is too tough, and others who do stuff like queue up with literally only 20 minutes to play and go afk if it isn't over by then. Personally I'd rather ditch those players and keep the potential for comebacks. I really don't like Mariner's Vengeance because it's just way too strong on certain champions that are already a big pain to deal with (mostly slayers). I agree that the mode really needs some specific rune and item balance, but I think Presence of Mind in particular was slightly over nerfed. I agree that the champion specific buffs/nerfs are out of wack and should probably be abandoned completely because Riot won't keep up with them. Also I want to point out that two big factors in ARAM win rates are champion popularity and champion ease of use. So often who wins is primarily based on which team gets more champions they know well. I don't want champions nerfed into the ground in ARAM just because they're easy to do alright on and popular.
: Revert Morgana
I'd prefer they revert her entirely. Butt wings are stupid and whiny emo teenagers who pirouette constantly are not fun to hear or watch. And the writing on her new VO... Possibly the worst VO lines of any character in League period, the very epitome of telling instead of showing.
: Uninteractive. Just W wave from like 1000 units away and push lane opponent under tower.
There are so many champions with safe wave clear and she isn't even one of them. xD Clearing the casters safely at lvl 5 and running out of mana trying to do anything more than that isn't what I'd call "safe wave clear." And the best part is that these changes don't make her more interactive in lane at all. If anything, they do the opposite. The more they nerf her ability to fight the more she has to just try to clear waves. If they want her to just not be played mid they need to admit that outright and eat the backlash they deserve for it, because that's the only way these sorts of changes reduce her safety mid, by deleting her from the lane (which these changes alone certainly won't do).
: ...Have you not heard of RoA? RoA+Manaflow basically eliminates the mana cost **as long as you're smart about using W**. Also, few champions can kill casters level 5 **without having to remain anywhere near them**. Morgana literally just has to press W and walk away.
RoA massively limits you later in the game due to lack of cdr and at the same time isn't better for mana than lost chapter. Manaflow band is garbage vs anyone who knows where to stand against Morgana. She literally can't proc it in lane if you're good without casting otherwise wasteful Ws on just the enemy champion. It is of course matchup dependent, melee often not having a real option in that regard. I still take manaflow band 100% of the time I play her mid because almost no one at my ELO has the slightest clue how to play vs her mid and I tend to have it stacked all the way super fast... Her best mana choice though is honestly just taking teleport, which further incentives her to just play safe and shove waves. Mana scarcity is not a good way to limit wave clear, but Riot seems unwilling to learn this lesson no matter how many times it gets shoved in their face (except that 1 time with Lux, which gave me so much hope, only for Riot to crush it repeatedly ever since). Lots of champions can kill casters at 5 without having to remain near them. Many of them take two casts to do so, but that often trades even or better with Morgana mana wise due to the cost of her W. Plus that tends to give her zero work towards killing the melee minions, whereas some other champions can easily hit both at once. Killing casters does not equal clearing the wave.
: Because her core gameplay as a **support** is just fine. And, really, at this point, Morgana is a support. They'd need to kill her support identity to make her mid identity healthy, and there's just no way that works out well. Not when her norm has been for **years** to be a support.
I've tried telling Riot that her Q root duration needs to be nerfed (and probably its base damage too) but they refuse to rip off the bandaids and actually fix her. They decided making her into an annoying emo teenager with butt wings and some of the most 'tell, don't show' lines in the game was preferable to healthy gameplay changes. Her Q is terrible 1v1 from afar because it's so slow, but up close its width, high cc duration, and high base damage make it incredibly valuable. Combined with her E she highly discourages opponents from engaging. And really that's what makes her unfun to lane against mid, not her waveclear. She made more sense when mid involved more poke and capitalizing on that poke. Now everyone can just sustain through any poke and most of the good poke truly from afar has been nerfed anyways (except Xerath, who trashes Morg in lane). As Arakadia pointed out, her support gameplay isn't exactly healthy. I think Riot just needs to bite the bullet and make her an actual mid laner, which really isn't that hard to do. Of course I'm also about as biased as you can possibly be in regards to this subject having mained Morgana mid for years now...
: Okay. Except she can just drop W and walk away, and it kills casters at level 5 and beyond. "Skillshots can be dodged" true. Except at point blank. And she can just poke endlessly with W anyways. **She doesn't need to interact come level 5 except when she feels like it. No other champion in the game can avoid interaction that thoroughly.** Source - I play the shit out of Morgana mid whenever I'm against a lane I don't feel like trying too hard in, because it's physically impossible to lose the lane if you have any idea what you're doing.
If you think being able to 1 button casters at level 5 is somehow op or unique... you're wrong. If you think doing that means you can ignore your opposing laner completely... you're wrong. If you think Morg can meaningfully poke you with just W before running out of mana... you're wrong and have clearly never played Morgana before. Her W is the most mana expensive basic ability in the game. Don't stand on your casters, she can't hit both them and you at the same time unless you're right by them.
Kazekiba (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cosnirak,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=4jGsjirE,comment-id=000300000001,timestamp=2019-04-05T04:36:51.288+0000) > > Thanks for using nothing but tired, old, debunked arguments. Saves me a lot of time writing out a real response. Oh. So my (sarcastic) statements were false? Riot does NOT have a multinational organization that generates close to 2 billion USD every year, Thousands of employees, and the opportunity to sell content theyve already made and enabled in the game? I'd like a source, or a Rioter to provide counter-evidence to these blatantly obvious facts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Mythical_Man-Month http://lmgtfy.com/?q=salves+vs+profits
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Cosnirak

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