Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 1
As mentioned in the post farming junglers took a hit. Any plans to maybe give something to people that like to sit in the jungle or struggle to gank early? (IE Master Yi)
: Yi - Strengths: Max Health True Damage Dealer Untargability Healing, while negating damage Sticky Easy Fast Jungle Clear (Jungle) Movement Speed Buff, and unable to be slowed Double Strike All Point and Click Almost None-existing Mana Costs (Jungle) Split Pusher Good Team Fighter Unbeatable Mid and Late game (13 Strengths) Yi - Weakness CC (Weakness to All) Untargability (Weakness to All) Invulnerability (Weakness to All) (?) Burst (?) (Weak to All None Tank or Bruisers) (4 Weaknesses) Let me give you my Main champions: Quinn - Strengths: Strong Early AD Assassin Massive MS Buff Ranged Reveal (Completly Pointless for any Champion) Strong CC (6 Strengths) Quinn - Weakness: Toilet Paper Almost Melee Ranged Weak MS and AS Buff Invulnerability (All) Untargatablility (All) CC (All) Burst Tanks (8 Weaknesses) and Zoe - Strength: Heavy Burst Strong CC RNG W Safe Range (4 Strengths) Zoe - Weakness: Burst Ranged CC (All) Tanks Stickiness Invulnerability (All) All Abilities are Dodgeable (7 Weaknesses) Spot the difference? Yi has a clear lag of Weaknesses. However, the two champions I mentioned are hard champions. Let us pick an easy champion. Jax - Strengths: Sticky CC Max Health Damage Dealer Reflects AA's (4 Strengths) Jax - Weaknesses: CC (All) Non-AA Damage (During his W) Invulnerability (All) Untargability (All) (4 Weakness) Honestly, I can put "Invulnerability" and "Untargability" on all champions, same with CC. Untargability is also Stealth. Then let me rephrase: Yi does NOT have any UNIQUE weakness added to his weakness. Go ahead, tell me I'm a bad silver player. Pros and higher elo players agree, that Yi is brain dead, and should not receive any buffs. Again, I do not want your champion to be unplayable, but he is, undeniably and proven to be unhealthy and poorly designed. He needs a rework and needs to be changed, the same goes for Trynd.
> [{quoted}](name=HyperTechno,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HAnqrQTv,comment-id=001000000000,timestamp=2018-10-02T04:56:39.964+0000) > > Yi - Strengths: > Max Health True Damage Dealer > Untargability > Healing, while negating damage > Sticky > Easy > Fast Jungle Clear (Jungle) > Movement Speed Buff, and unable to be slowed > Double Strike > All Point and Click > Almost None-existing Mana Costs (Jungle) > Split Pusher > Good Team Fighter > Unbeatable Mid and Late game > (13 Strengths) > > Yi - Weakness > CC (Weakness to All) > Untargability (Weakness to All) > Invulnerability (Weakness to All) > (?) Burst (?) (Weak to All None Tank or Bruisers) > (4 Weaknesses) > > Let me give you my Main champions: > > Quinn - Strengths: > Strong Early > AD Assassin > Massive MS Buff > Ranged > Reveal (Completly Pointless for any Champion) > Strong CC > (6 Strengths) > > Quinn - Weakness: > Toilet Paper > Almost Melee Ranged > Weak MS and AS Buff > Invulnerability (All) > Untargatablility (All) > CC (All) > Burst > Tanks > (8 Weaknesses) > > and > > Zoe - Strength: > Heavy Burst > Strong CC > RNG W > Safe Range > (4 Strengths) > > Zoe - Weakness: > Burst > Ranged > CC (All) > Tanks > Stickiness > Invulnerability (All) > All Abilities are Dodgeable > (7 Weaknesses) > > Spot the difference? > Yi has a clear lag of Weaknesses. However, the two champions I mentioned are hard champions. Let us pick an easy champion. > > Jax - Strengths: > Sticky > CC > Max Health Damage Dealer > Reflects AA's > (4 Strengths) > > Jax - Weaknesses: > CC (All) > Non-AA Damage (During his W) > Invulnerability (All) > Untargability (All) > (4 Weakness) > > Honestly, I can put "Invulnerability" and "Untargability" on all champions, same with CC. Untargability is also Stealth. Then let me rephrase: Yi does NOT have any UNIQUE weakness added to his weakness. > > Go ahead, tell me I'm a bad silver player. Pros and higher elo players agree, that Yi is brain dead, and should not receive any buffs. Again, I do not want your champion to be unplayable, but he is, undeniably and proven to be unhealthy and poorly designed. He needs a rework and needs to be changed, the same goes for Trynd. You're just wrong on so many levels and it would take so much effort to explain to a player of your elo why it is that way. I'm not even trying to be condescending. Also why do you include Quinn's "almost melee ranger" as a weakness but not Yi's "very clearly melee range"? What about Quinn's amazing map pressure and Yi's non existent map pressure? Does lane priority and pressure not exist in Silver? Why does she have a "small AS and MS bonus" when that is almost exactly the same bonus Master Yi gets on his ultimate? Its all about game flow and team synergy, I don't think you get it. You're stacking champions up on a 1 on 1 level (and not even that accurately) and making blanket statements about what "high elo" and "pro players" say. I'm high elo, and I happen to know a lot of pros personally, and no one feels that way. A simple gank early game can decide the entire flow of how a game goes. Ever been ganked top lane then put so far behind while the enemy Fiora steam rolls a game? More likely to happen when your jungler is Yi and they have an Elise. Individually he can be a very strong 1v1 champion (if given the feed and opportunity) but in most situations when you apply it in an actual game with equally skilled opponents he does not come out on top. The fact that you used Zoe as an example of why Yi is an overly powerful champion tells a lot about your approach of the game, and why you will most likely stay in an elo that Assassins can terrorize. Also yes, I'm glad you thought ahead, we don't need to call you a bad silver player because you clearly you know you are. --- Also for anyone that wants to check his profile just to get a glimpse at his frame of reference he is in Silver 5 and he is a Zoe main. His second most played is a 38% win rate Quinn. This does explain a little bit about why he feels the way he feels about Master Yi.
: Overpowered but always sub 5% pickrate and sub 50% winrate in diamond? Yeah, ok.
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HAnqrQTv,comment-id=0003000000010001,timestamp=2018-10-01T21:50:47.358+0000) > > Overpowered but always sub 5% pickrate and sub 50% winrate in diamond? > > Yeah, ok. He is 47% win rate in Platinum+ Korea. Masters data is non-existent because no one plays him there: http://www.op.gg/ranking/champions/name=masteryi The only Master+ players in the world in any "relevant" server actively playing Yi as of this patch is NA w/ Danijrm and Die Insect Just providing some actual evidence for this claim. I actually have no idea why his pick rate is always around 5% when he has such a low win rate. Edit: Since this is at the top of page 5, I made a longer post in regards to Master Yi at the bottom of Page 4 if anyone wants to check it out.
Kadexe (EUW)
: @Riot Please Nerf+Buff Alpha Strike
The problem with Yi is that players in "bad" elos don't know how to deal with him, and players in high elo stomp him. Unfortunately the majority of the community is "bad". 90% of players are Gold and below, and Yi does quite well there. Check the stats yourself (http://na.op.gg/statistics/tier/) This creates heated discussion where 90% of players thinks hes fine, while the top 10% counter him quite easily. When Yi gets ahead with ganks he snowballs hard because of his item scaling. This primarily (not always) happens in Gold and under elo, which makes him super frustrating. In higher elo he gets no ganks, has no items, and enemy teams can deal with him accordingly. No, high elo players don't magically know how to CC Master Yi, they just prevent him from getting to a point where that is their only option. I have tens of thousands of games of Yi, and 100% am sure that no one has played the champion more than I. I've been here since 2009 and played the game full time every season except Season 2. He needs damage removed from E and needs some of that power shifted into Q and W not with pure stats, but outplay potential. W changes pausing Highlander were good. +0.2 AD ratio on E were not. I'll make a video on it sometime, but I think too many of you want to see Yi turned into another Renekton. It is ok to have autoattackers, but they need to have more decision making and less random stuff in their abilities. My 2 cents, Cowsep
AD Yuumi (NA)
: > Why are knock-ups used instead of stuns when they are (and technically vice-versa)? A good question!!!! Here's some of the design reasons we use knockups vs. stuns. 1. Thematic Sometimes a knockup/knockback just **feels** correct thematically and it would betray player expectations to not make it so. Displacements are the easiest examples here (Lee Sin R) , but also things like Vi ult (where she literally uppercuts you into the air). In these cases using a stun (where the target didn't move) would likely feel WRONG. Imagine hitting someone with a giant water geyser and NOT seeing them move. 2. Guaranteed Power Knockups give us a strong design tool. They are CC with essentially no "counterplay" as they cannot be reduced or cleansed. If you NEED an effect to "just work" and screw over THAT CHAMP for X seconds NO MATTER WHAT then a knockup is for you. Malphite ult is a great example of this principal. Unstoppable Force is intended to be an incredibly powerful and fight altering ability. The knockup helps it achieve that, even when the enemy is running things like cleanse and QSS. 3. Satisfaction Sometimes we just want a spell to feel good. Knockups feel better than stuns because the impact is more visceral (you move the target OMG). Things that look flashier often feel better to hit. 4. Mobility Counters (EDIT:forgot to put this in original post) Because they stop dashes, knockups are a great way to give your champion a counter to an opponent's mobility tools (Volibear Roar). My personal opinion is that reasons 1 and 2 are GOOD REASONS for using knockups, while reason 3 is fine but DANGEROUS. I call 3 dangerous because in the search of "good feels" we can often forget about the importance of cleanses and tenacity in our game. Doing it every once in a while is fine, but if it becomes a trend where most spells have "knockups for the feels" the whole stun/tenacity/knockup/cleanse system can start to break down. I'd be lying to say that League hasn't experienced a good deal of "knockup" creep over the years. In regards to stun satisfaction, there are ways to have our cake and eat it too. Knockups that fade into longer stuns are one way (did you know that Nautilus R is reducible by tenacity? The knockup only lasts .5 seconds, the majority of the CC is actually a stun!). Another way is the Thresh and Nami Q approach. Both of those spells are stuns! They just "look" like knockups, but can be reduced and cleansed like normal. The cost of that approach is clarity. They work for Yasuo R but can also be Gangplank W'd? A tad confusing, but probably worth it in the long run to get the desired counterplay.
So legit curious. I'm a Master Yi main and tenacity is a very nice strategy if the enemy is stacked with stuns, but often times the enemy team is full of knock ups that just completely make tenacity useless. Or a champion has stuns in their kit and a knock up which makes it really hard to itemize against them (no counterplay, Rakan comes to mind) I often complain that "these champions have knock ups because it looks cool, or relevant to the kit, its not even designed for balance". Why do we not use more suspensions on abilities and save hard knock ups for really crucial thematic knock ups like Malphite (super awesome), Vi, Braum, Galio, Gragas, etc? It feels like every new champion just comes out with a knock up because thats what their kit looks cool with... Rakan should not knock up he should suspend. Aatrox should suspend, etc. Any champion with a really frequent knock up should use suspension. Most champions don't build tenacity anyway, why not reward people who are willing to put some more effort into their builds and go down the tenacity path? P.S - I do like the effort made with separating stuns and knock ups into one ability like Alistar, Gragas, etc. I just feel like we add Knock ups because they're cool and don't even think about the tenacity stat. Cheers, Cowsep
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
What about Junglers that have no CC to lower the resistance of the Scuttler? I absolutely hate taking the Scuttler early game as Yi and now hes ever harder. On top of that the Jungle gives less exp? What about the spawn times, are they the same? Novalas mentioned that there is room for counterplay with counterjungling if one jungler goes for the crab. What about if you're playing a champion with no point and click escape (Master Yi). You can't safely counter jungle people and if the enemy team collapses you're dead. On top of that what about the fact that the person with the red buff will always be the one contesting the Scuttler? Also someone mentioned that they dislike how junglers don't interact with players, why not open up options and see what players end up picking? If someone decides to power farm the other jungler can take advantage by ganking more often. If they both end up power farming at least the lanes can finally have that 1v1 situation they've been missing since Season 4.
: This is hilarious and fucking ignorant of Cowsep (probably because he doesn't know that he's an exception of being able to play in the KR server). If you guys didn't know. Korean gaming servers are generally blocked off to the outside world except for Korea itself, using a SS ID to register for accounts. Thus, not allowing anyone who isn't a person with this SS ID to sign up and play. This was done for several reasons (keeping players accountable by IDing, etc). The fact that Cowsep is even allowed to play in the KR server or any player that isn't from KR without this SS ID, is an exception/blessing - meaning it's allowed because of who they are + outside world can't compete against the Korean players, so they needed to let the pro/famous players compete in the KR server to stay relevant on world stage. So the toxicity? Yeah, it's there because unlike me who lives in Seattle and plays LoL for fun > seriously, they play seriously > fun. The mentality of eSports or games in general is different from that of Korea compared to any other country. In other words, deal with it. If you can't, just play in the server that you can handle. Riot won't do anything because they know you playing in the KR server is a favor given by them. They could really just revoke your access in the KR server if all you want to do is cry about it. Seriously, if you can't handle the "threats/toxicity/etc" of KR server, then why do you even play there? Edit: To add onto your racist comment... You act as if "USA, USA, USA" chants isn't a thing. (This is done EVERYWHERE, doesn't matter where). If you want to bash on Asians, then do it in good taste. Don't try to make it seem like you're the victim.
I have a legal korean social security number tied to my name dummy, there are no special privileges granted to me, I do it just like everyone else.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cowsep,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zrkeAFmh,comment-id=002d00000000,timestamp=2018-03-29T06:35:06.826+0000) > > I mean you didn't get the full picture and threw up a thread, and now people are flaming me (ironic right, a thread about toxicity) and calling me racist. But thats ok, any discussion about me is good discussion. > > You asked about fake quitting or quick quitting. Quitting early out of games allows the client to load more quickly when you have the client set to hide ingame (because it takes god awful long to load), one reason I do it, though I don't usually do it as early as I did that game. I really thought they would win that game after I quit lol. When I noticed the players weren't good enough to get the victory (they went for 3 inhibs instead...) I simply reconnected to the game. I had the OP.gg on the side checking if the game ended before letting myself enter another game. I also quit on a death timer which means there was plenty of time where I could not do anything anyway. Doing a fake quit like this stirs up quite a bit of drama and gets my Twitch chat talking, it also helps bring visibility to me as a streamer and some of the problems I have w/ Korea server. > > I know it is hard for a Bronze V player to fathom, but if I play a game seriously, I absolutely CAN NOT lose a Silver 2 game. The win was 100% guaranteed and at no point was my team in danger of losing that game. I did nothing wrong here. I literally spent 25 minutes teaching 3000 people how to win in a Silver 2 game, and I did exactly that. See, just for pulling the rank card and trying to sneak in like it’s somehow my fault people assume you’re a racist, you lost a decent chunk of credibility for respect as fast as you earned it. But hey, just an observation; not like you need or even care about my silly sense of approval. I flourish in a team environment as I have been on sports teams for most of my youth. We practiced together and learned how to both act and react accordingly since we knew we had to depend on one another. Playing with entirely random people with no goal of applying team coordination because they just all want to be left to their own devices until they want something is contrary to all of that. Toss it out the window; it’s useless information now. It sucks and I constantly fail pretty hard to remember that fact and I have to just push onwards by myself (if necessary) because I’m the only constant factor in 100% of my games. Gotta man up and carry or do my best to try to help the “real” carry if the game has one at all. As a result, my various accounts usually yo-yo pretty hard, depending on my patience. Of course I am Bronze V with my mentality if I fail to keep that stuff in mind. But you’re making it sound like I’m not even TRYING. I do genuinely appreciate you explaining what your job entails and how it makes for entertainment, though. I totally have to give you props on that and you delivered with your intended results as a result of how to make the most with what you are given.
Of course I'd pull the rank card, you're literally at the VERY bottom and you have a negative win rate. Everyone would pull the rank card. Also I don't care if I get any credibility from you or if I hurt your feelings, just like you didn't care about throwing me under the bus. You can save your walls of texts, I'm only defending myself because surely Riot will come in here and see it.
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Cowsep,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=zrkeAFmh,comment-id=002d,timestamp=2018-03-29T05:32:06.077+0000) > > Oh yeah, you mean this game? > > https://gyazo.com/fe233370b71d46abf7003e45584bc731 (Game I "quit" and cost my team a game) > > The game we won because you conveniently left out the part where I reconnected? I quit during my death timer talked shit to Twitch chat and reconnected to the game. > > You can watch the VoD, I mean, I'm sure they would have won anyway, but I reconnected to make sure they did, you should include that into your post. > > https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243782076?t=5h58m > > Also thanks! You're right, Korean League of Legends needs a functional report system because people do REALLY quit games here and get absolutely no punishment, in fact, the reason I was playing on a smurf is because my D2 account was AFK in the fountain because my teammate bought Tear / Mobis and went AFK. 12 minute game. NOT RARE AT ALL IN Korean D2. > > https://gyazo.com/55da8c40d70a4b4ea07372330ea559ea (Tear Game) > https://gyazo.com/e156abf2a2e8448ad22508383a3f5971 (Literally 3 15 minute games in a row 2 days ago) > > So instead of railing me, a guy who actually did nothing other than fake quit a game, maybe we can get some visibility to a real problem, BUT DAMN THAT COWSEP! I’m not going to apologize for my brashness. I WILL apologize for not realizing the gravity of the situation being far worse than it is and you were just trying to make the most of a shitty situation from which there is legitimately no real “choice” that is “good”. Okay, apparently you staged a “fake quit” of sorts in that game I referenced. I’m not familiar with the idea of why that’s even a “thing”. You just coldly stated one thing as you closed out to seemingly follow up what you said you were going to do and, instead, did check back in as you clarified. Why even say you were going to log into the other account, then? It’s not like I had any incentive to think you were just blowing smoke as you said one thing only to do another altogether. I tend to take people at their word unless I feel they have any prior reason to specifically deceive me. Especially with that totally dead tone you took when you “fake-quit”. I don’t watch you so how am I, a first-time watcher SUPPOSED to know you’re not dead serious? I even said I just happened across your stream. I quite clearly wasn’t watching everything prior to this event. I would recommend you read my amendment to my post. It isn’t about getting people on the “hate Cowsep” train. It’s the line of thought from impressions. Was my timing inconvenient? I’ll concede to that. Does it change my perception on the “larger picture”? Not in the slightest. I am glad we both agree things need to change. Having this new information about the Korean servers in particular is frightening. Makes NA look like a minor nuisance in comparison. Again, I’m not going to apologize for my brashness. I’ve given you my take on how my brain processes information and in that short amount of time I watched you, you carried yourself in such a manner that it really rubbed me the wrong way, similarly as to having to read my take on you quite understandably left a bad taste in your mouth, if you will. But hey, just understand this isn’t about YOU as a person and nothing but a target to which I affixed a specific mark to just for being you. You just happened to be in the mix of a bad situation that had horrible timing, given how much more heated player behaviour topics have been gaining attention. I know it’s difficult for me to word this as I would like it to but I cannot adequately convey everything as eloquently as the topic deserves.
I mean you didn't get the full picture and threw up a thread, and now people are flaming me (ironic right, a thread about toxicity) and calling me racist. But thats ok, any discussion about me is good discussion. You asked about fake quitting or quick quitting. Quitting early out of games allows the client to load more quickly when you have the client set to hide ingame (because it takes god awful long to load), one reason I do it, though I don't usually do it as early as I did that game. I really thought they would win that game after I quit lol. When I noticed the players weren't good enough to get the victory (they went for 3 inhibs instead...) I simply reconnected to the game. I had the OP.gg on the side checking if the game ended before letting myself enter another game. I also quit on a death timer which means there was plenty of time where I could not do anything anyway. Doing a fake quit like this stirs up quite a bit of drama and gets my Twitch chat talking, it also helps bring visibility to me as a streamer and some of the problems I have w/ Korea server. I know it is hard for a Bronze V player to fathom, but if I play a game seriously, I absolutely CAN NOT lose a Silver 2 game. The win was 100% guaranteed and at no point was my team in danger of losing that game. I did nothing wrong here. I literally spent 25 minutes teaching 3000 people how to win in a Silver 2 game, and I did exactly that.
: Well, now I see where a lot of this entitled behaviour comes from....
Oh yeah, you mean this game? https://gyazo.com/fe233370b71d46abf7003e45584bc731 (Game I "quit" and cost my team a game) The game we won because you conveniently left out the part where I reconnected? I quit during my death timer talked shit to Twitch chat and reconnected to the game. You can watch the VoD, I mean, I'm sure they would have won anyway, but I reconnected to make sure they did, you should include that into your post. https://www.twitch.tv/videos/243782076?t=5h58m Also thanks! You're right, Korean League of Legends needs a functional report system because people do REALLY quit games here and get absolutely no punishment, in fact, the reason I was playing on a smurf is because my D2 account was AFK in the fountain because my teammate bought Tear / Mobis and went AFK. 12 minute game. NOT RARE AT ALL IN Korean D2. https://gyazo.com/55da8c40d70a4b4ea07372330ea559ea (Tear Game) https://gyazo.com/e156abf2a2e8448ad22508383a3f5971 (Literally 3 15 minute games in a row 2 days ago) So instead of railing me, a guy who actually did nothing other than fake quit a game, maybe we can get some visibility to a real problem, BUT DAMN THAT COWSEP!
: Thanks for the input. Some thoughts. > Getting stacks while hitting only champions, in my opinion, is not the way to go I'm leaning this way as well. I didn't have high hopes for that iteration, but decided to give it a day anyway. To try to achieve a similar goal of making pre-stacking less powerful/overbearing (on ranged champions especially), tomorrow has a vastly reduced stack duration (2.5 seconds I believe) but retains its melee stacking bonus. > Champions like Master Yi, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Shyvana who generally do not want to build AP, have to build an item that turns their adaptive damage into AP if they want to take advantage of Phantom Hit. This is one of the things I wanted to resolve with this current iteration, and it carries over tomorrow! By swapping the Blasting Wand for the Amplifying Tome, AD becomes the dominant Adaptive stat while rushing this item, unless you have more AP (like from a Doran's Ring), but I think it's safe to assume at that point that you prefer the AP. Additionally, because the stats are even on upgrade, champions' natural Adaptive states take over if the item is rushed now. Basically, there should be fewer cases where Yi is turning his Adaptive into AP. > However, another good idea is to simply have Rageblade focus on one thing - on hits. This was my inclination as well when I started work on this, however I've decided that I want to maintain a hybrid feeling as best as possible, since there are so few items like it left in the shop and I believe, based on feedback I've seen here and elsewhere, that's fun for a lot of players. What you'll see in the next PBE update is a version that essentially tries to be whatever the user wants from it, without getting too much useless stuff. Percent bonuses to AD, AP, and - as of tomorrow - multiplicative Attack Speed, means that the more of other stats you buy, the more of that stat you get from Rageblade. Building AD? Rageblade gives you some extra AD. Building AP? Rageblade gives you a bit more. Buidling on-hits and have a bunch of AS? Rageblade now multiplies that AS out. The idea here is you feel like you're getting less useless stuff and more of what your current build cares about. That said, as long as phantom hit exists on the item (which it still does), it needs to be powerful as an on-hit item regardless of what else you're building alongside it, so the innate on-hit damage is a bit higher tomorrow. > Thanks for reading my wall of text. Thanks for the input, and good luck with your next headset!
Actually the idea of making the bonuses % based is sort of interesting because it accomplishes 2 things: 1) You can't build tanky with Guinsoo's Rage Blade because you'll benefit significantly less than building another AD item. (This is a big problem for Phantom Hit users, being too tanky and dealing too much damage). 2) You don't get a bunch of wasted AP because it scales (mostly) %. Hopefully melees can keep longer stacks than ranged because they need to close the gaps, especially after someone flashes or dashes away. Theres no way Yi can keep those 2.5s stacks going (Especially when Alpha eats up .8s of that lol). Not a bad way to separate ranged vs melee, the stack time. I think this is a pretty decent approach so lets see how everyone likes the next iteration on PBE.
: Anyone have insightful commentary on today's version of Rageblade? Interested to hear it!
Heres a longer post but I've been using the Phantom Hit mechanic since it was released and it'd be really disappointing to see it removed. Note, I tend to play champions like Master Yi, Jax, Tryndamere, Kayle, Shyvana - on hit champions - I also used to play on-hit Braum, Twisted Fate, and Teemo jungle back when Devourer was a thing. Its always been my favorite playstyle. The current iteration of Phantom Hit is more healthy than the instant Phantom Hit from Devourer because it gives some players the ability to kind of work around it. For example, if you see a Jax, Master Yi, Kayle farming in a minion wave you obviously want to wait until they clear that minion wave. Likewise, as the Jax, Master Yi, Kayle if you suspect someone is coming, you want to clear the minion wave as slow as possible. These are two interesting situations that both sides can play around. In all honesty, it is really hard for a melee champion to get Phantom Hit before a team fight starts, in fact, unless they're pushing into your base and you're killing super minions, or they engage on you during a Baron or Dragon, its highly unlikely to even have one stack prepared (since you usually wait for your initiator). Range champions don't really have that issue because they use their ranged auto attacks to poke or help clear minion waves, which means that they can start the fight fully stacked. This creates range vs melee issues which you're trying to address, which is great. Getting stacks while hitting only champions, in my opinion, is not the way to go. This makes Rageblade significantly more useless in anything other than team fighting. Objective taking I'd argue is more important than killing champions. There used to be a time in this game where people would say "don't fight so much and instead focus getting more objectives" but now it seems that everything that comes out relies on having an enemy champion around. The game is largely becoming more PvP based and champions that like to split or PvE suffer more and more (the champions I generally like to play, sadly). Phantom hit is also currently the only way certain champions like Master Yi can even come close to dealing with tanks. If you build full Critical on Master Yi and try to approach a tank, you will not even get him under half health before dying. Phantom hit allows Master Yi and other champions to work efficiently against tanks, but doesn't make them too powerful against squishies because they the on-hit build lacks burst and supports can have time to peel for them. That feels like a good balance. If you go for Phantom Hit you won't assassinate the squishies but you can deal with 1v1ing people with no peel. Phantom hit is a really good mechanic please don't remove it just because of Kog-Maw, Varus, Kayle (all ranged champions!) With that said, I think that Guinsoo's Rageblade is trying to do way too much at the current moment. Champions like Master Yi, Tryndamere, Aatrox, Shyvana who generally do not want to build AP, have to build an item that turns their adaptive damage into AP if they want to take advantage of Phantom Hit. Its a bit odd to me that an AP dominant Hybrid Item has a mechanic that auto attackers want to take advantage of. Riot over the years has continuously been trying to remove alternate playstyles from champions and lock them down out of hybrid gameplay, for example Tristana, Master Yi, Tryndamere, Sion, Poppy, Katarina, Shaco, and more have all had their kits touched up to remove multiple playstyles, yet they try to preserve this Hybrid item strictly for Kayle, and maybe Jax, but he doesn't even build it. I think that Guinsoo's Rageblade rework yesterday was a fine example of a good direction that Rageblade should be going. I think it should have a very clear purpose that multiple champions should be able to use. On top of that, I feel that Guinsoo's Rageblade could be our first item candidate for adaptive stats. If an individual has enough AD to make Rageblade change to AD, I think that user would use AD quite well. On the flip note, if they had enough AP to make it change to AP, again, I think the user would be fine with that. However, another good idea is to simply have Rageblade focus on one thing - on hits. The problem with Rageblade now is that since it has Phantom Hit on it, on-hit champions are forced to get useless stats, unless they scale with both AP and AD. An interesting direction you can go is to simply make it heavily Attack Speed reliant or make the on-hit damage itself scale with adaptive AD or AP, sort of similar to the iteration of patch 6.8 Rageblade (Check it out if you don't know what it did). Rageblade or another item should be an ON-HIT item, not a hybrid one. I think that Phantom Hit is a powerful enough mechanic it should remain expensive but it shouldn't require champions to purchase useless stats for themselves. Its also a fun mechanic so I really hope it is not removed. Just keep in mind that Rageblade can have usage outside of team fighting (like doing Baron, Dragon, Splitting, 1v1ing), and that ranged champions have a way easier time of abusing it than melee. Thanks for reading my wall of text. Cowsep
: My intent wasn't to say that 7 seconds is a magic number or to imply that the kinds of things you listed don't exist. They definitely do. It was more that 7 seconds as an arbitrary number in and of itself is pretty long in League, even taking into account that there are effects that last longer. In terms of Highlander, I still do want to pitch some ideas for buffing it in some way, I'm just not confident that reverting the ult duration is the specific ideal buff to make. I personally agree Master Yi needs some help, in part because he's been left behind a bit in recent times for all the reasons you mentioned in your comment. To reopen the conversation a bit, the question I'd like to pose to you would be: Would the current Highlander duration be good enough if Highlander's effect was enhanced in some capacity? e.g. higher movement speed or a burst of movement speed?
I apologize about my passive aggressive comments earlier. I don't think that the problem with Highlander is how fast Yi goes, but instead losing access to his attack speed and movement speed slow immunity during a fight. There is a good list of items / spells that everyone can get that right now basically means game over for Master Yi: Stopwatch - 1/3rd of highlander duration Zhonyas - 1/3rd of highlander duration Guardian Angel - More than half of highlander duration, and you have to kill them first. Heal - More move speed so they run away and waste more duration, more health for another hit. Flash - If they're over a wall you have to give that kill up, useless for the rest of the fight if you put work into one target. Exhaust - Even if immune to the slowing effect, and have some true damage, it is hard to get a reset. There is an even longer list of common items that basically means Yi is going to have a really hard time: Ninja Tabis - These boots hurt Critical Build a lot, which appears to be the route the balance team is wanting to take. Shield items - Locket, Barrier, etc. When an ADC gets stacking shields your Highlander reset becomes more difficult. Ghost - It is incredibly similar to the speeds that Highlander gives you, denying you a lot of auto attacks. All Move Speed items - Makes it harder to stick to a target and get that reset (more and more are getting added). On top of that almost every new champion or rework has a really big burst of movement speed or dash that allows them to eat up even more of Master Yi's Highlander duration by simply running away from him. (Zoe, Kayn, Rakan, Xayah. Camille, Ornn). It is ok to be building situationally against Master Yi. I think that is smart and would require the Master Yi to play differently in fights. If a player builds Thornmail because I'm fed I should respect that. The unfortunate issue is that every single mage player gets Zhonyas. Every late game ADC gets a GA. Sometimes I fight an entire team of GA / Zhonyas. Every player has flash. I can only flash after one guy. The support is going to build a Solari. These items are all built regardless of whether there is a Master Yi or not. There is no decision making in countering Master Yi, it just happens. Someone in my chat brought up the point - "If these are items that everyone builds anyway than how does it effect Yi more than any other champion?" - Yi is unlike most other champions. A Zhonyas is a good time for a Khazix to have his Q cooldown come up, giving him more power. A Pantheon gets the benefit of waiting for his stun. Jarvan will get his E Q combo. Master Yi is backwards from most current champions. The Zhonyas duration will simply make him weaker as his Highlander disappears, while other champions get access to important abilities that make them stronger. Yi has to attack through the shields, hes running out of time. Other Junglers can simply wait it out and use their renewed cooldowns after the shield expires. These points lead to the problem of his Highlander expiring. Without Highlander, Master Yi is... just not very good. Its an incredible ultimate, though people like to joke a lot about how the ultimate is slapped onto items. The immunity to Attack Speed slows and Movement Speed slows is absolutely huge. So does that mean that more speed on the ability would help Master Yi? Maybe. It would have to be done in a creative way that makes the player perform in a risky way. I don't like the current style of buffing his overall damage because we'll see a 2% increase in win rate in silver, but only a 1% in Diamond, making him a problem champion. A lot of Master Yi's problems are simply meta related. Master Yi's kit does not synergize with the constant grouping, early ganking, tower sieging meta we're currently seeing. Changes to his kit should address that. If you're really adamant about not buffing the duration of Highlander, the previous meditate change was a really good example of how you can target Highlander (Freezes Highlander duration). It rewards critical thinking instead of the mindless button mashing that Yi is known for. Creative solutions like that can help make Highlander relevant again without making him a total monster in the lower elos. Allowing the Yi player to extend the duration in a creative way or increase his movement speed or sticking power would be better than straight up buffing any numbers. Keep in mind that Master Yi hits diminishing returns really quickly as well. Thanks for reaching out.
Cowsep (NA)
: I hate signing into these boards but you do realize that new stupid mage item you're releasing is 8 seconds duration right? Even if movement speed is a shorter duration, the item does an effect for 8 seconds. By the way - Take a look at Vayne's ult duration, you should probably nerf that judging by your logic (Please do, shes my 100% ban) (8 / 10 / 12s). Some reasons 7 seconds is not enough (on Yi, clearly enough on Vayne): Guardian Angel which counters Master Yi hard eats up half his Highlander Free stop watch eats up what 2.5s? Add in two mages and you're done. Stealth champions eat up what another 4s? Whats that? Stuns get progressively longer because every champion has some sort of snare? You guys literally throw move speed on EVERYTHING (except Yi items) now. Just look at PBE lol. 7 seconds used to be a "long time". Stealth changes were great by the way, I love how theres no counter to Vayne, Khazix, Talon when you're playing a melee champion. Its fairly obvious no one in the team plays Yi. I recall a post from you (I'll end up digging it up for a video probably) where you said Yi pops off after a BOTRK purchase. I then checked your OP.GG live on stream and your only Yi games were 2 in normals against Silvers - one of which you lost. You should give the "rework" or whatever you guys are calling it to someone that is willing to at least try the champion they're balancing. You're playtest anyway, but it'd be great if we could see the person working on Yi was actually using his hours to get a feel for how the champion works instead of being completely dark to the community (RiotAugust is a really good example of how your balance team should behave). But no, you're right, the duration alone won't fix what you guys have been doing to this game for the past two years. I recommend you change it back and do more. If you want I can make a more coherent video gathering up a bunch of thoughts for you similar to what I did with those stupid meditate changes Rick did. Had a lot of edits with this post hopefully its easier to read.
By the way I noticed your most played champion is Khazix! Thats interesting! Cool champion and all. How do you feel about his infinite stealth, while we're talking about durations?
: So, to give you context on these buffs, we noted that Yi lost a lot in this preseason from the Runes changes (mainly, lots of AD lost from Fervor). These buffs are primarily to assist with the hit that Yi took with that. I don't believe Highlander's duration getting reverted is going to be the solution here, mainly because 7 seconds in League of Legends time is already a --very-- long time. Would having it at 10 seconds be the end all be all solution to Yi? Or should there be bigger buffs/alterations on his ultimate to make it so it feels more valuable in the 7 seconds that you have it? I'm not necessarily saying that Yi is going to get those changes yet/soon but, having spoken to Ricklessabandon on this, we'd probably lean towards making the buff on Highlander better rather than reverting the changelist.
I hate signing into these boards but you do realize that new stupid mage item you're releasing is 8 seconds duration right? Even if movement speed is a shorter duration, the item does an effect for 8 seconds. By the way - Take a look at Vayne's ult duration, you should probably nerf that judging by your logic (Please do, shes my 100% ban) (8 / 10 / 12s). Some reasons 7 seconds is not enough (on Yi, clearly enough on Vayne): Guardian Angel which counters Master Yi hard eats up half his Highlander Free stop watch eats up what 2.5s? Add in two mages and you're done. Stealth champions eat up what another 4s? Whats that? Stuns get progressively longer because every champion has some sort of snare? You guys literally throw move speed on EVERYTHING (except Yi items) now. Just look at PBE lol. 7 seconds used to be a "long time". Stealth changes were great by the way, I love how theres no counter to Vayne, Khazix, Talon when you're playing a melee champion. Its fairly obvious no one in the team plays Yi. I recall a post from you (I'll end up digging it up for a video probably) where you said Yi pops off after a BOTRK purchase. I then checked your OP.GG live on stream and your only Yi games were 2 in normals against Silvers - one of which you lost. You should give the "rework" or whatever you guys are calling it to someone that is willing to at least try the champion they're balancing. You're playtest anyway, but it'd be great if we could see the person working on Yi was actually using his hours to get a feel for how the champion works instead of being completely dark to the community (RiotAugust is a really good example of how your balance team should behave). But no, you're right, the duration alone won't fix what you guys have been doing to this game for the past two years. I recommend you change it back and do more. If you want I can make a more coherent video gathering up a bunch of thoughts for you similar to what I did with those stupid meditate changes Rick did. Had a lot of edits with this post hopefully its easier to read.
Cowsep (NA)
: Origin of Master Yi Alpha Bug
Example of the bug that was fixed: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-zN6hyiOLc
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