coreym11 (NA)
: Bot lane has turned so stressful and so cheese to play, doesn't even feel competitive
You're cute. You're just getting to experience what top lane has live through since its inception.
: The point was to make him viable in team-fight when diving the ADC even if the enemy team has a janna/lulu. Now, don't ask me if they hit the mark, but you're asking what was the point, well, that's it.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurst,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OKjycw7R,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-19T13:38:31.516+0000) > > The point was to make him viable in team-fight when diving the ADC even if the enemy team has a janna/lulu. > > Now, don't ask me if they hit the mark, but you're asking what was the point, well, that's it. A mobile bruiser with a 1.5 sec stun and his massive burst and self healing should never have gotten a shield break. He was just fine. If anything, that utility should have gone to a tank champ.
Moody P (NA)
: Kled now counters champions that were meant to counter him
Kled was already strong anyways. Neither he or Renekton needed buffs. Darius and Mordekaiser needed nerfs. So did Jax. I don't understand how Jax has gone untouched when he doesn't have any truly atrocious lanes and then massively outscales all the top lane roster.
: > [{quoted}](name=Shadowkhan,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=dFvb09E8,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T14:01:07.124+0000) > > Uh, what exactly are you trying to say? Just because it's possible to lose with diana doesn't make her abilities/bugs balanced. The comparison to tennis is shit, because Nadal has a significant advantage over other players, whereas league champions should be designed with the same power budget just different mechanics in order for the game to be balanced. And her power budget is fine, from a balance perspective. Shit, she isn't even popular, because her power budget from a gameplay perspecive is a one-trick-combo, like Hecarim's. I'm saying Nadal doesn't really hold an advantage over others, any more than Faker holds an advantage over others. That's simply your perception, as someone who can't match their skill level. You act like they just naturally shit on everyone. They don't. They shit on people because they are masters of their craft, who've put in more time, practice, and effort during their careers than you can tolerate putting into dressing yourself in the morning. Your perception, not the comparison, is what's shit here.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=dFvb09E8,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-18T14:08:36.600+0000) > > And her power budget is fine, from a balance perspective. Shit, she isn't even popular, because her power budget from a gameplay perspecive is a one-trick-combo, like Hecarim's. > > I'm saying Nadal doesn't really hold an advantage over others, any more than Faker holds an advantage over others. That's simply your perception, as someone who can't match their skill level. > > You act like they just naturally shit on everyone. They don't. They shit on people because they are masters of their craft, who've put in more time, practice, and effort during their careers than you can tolerate putting into dressing yourself in the morning. Your perception, not the comparison, is what's shit here. Feast or famine design is a crock of shit and honestly they need to rethink the assassin class because of it. If they gave assassins the wukong/gargoyle stoneplate baseline to make them relevant in teamfights without breaking them in laning phase or split pushing 1v1's, they could tune assassin damage kits a lot better. But because as an assassin you gotta kill an ADC before they reach GA or the support can react with shields, because otherwise you die in 3 ADC's autos while CC'd by the support/frontline, creates completely toxic gameplay.
: > [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hyRvBTPE,comment-id=000500000000000000020003,timestamp=2019-07-15T20:52:41.679+0000) > > {{champion:84}} No, it's only slightly Akali favoured. > {{champion:69}} No, it's borderline even (at least until Chall) > {{champion:39}} Yes, she dumpsters Kat. > {{champion:38}} Overrated. With Conqueror+Long Sword Kat can beat him (up until Chall) > {{champion:50}} This is a champion atm? No, Kat beats him right now. > {{champion:8}} Yeah. But this matchup is nowhere near unplayable, it's just volatile. > {{champion:157}} Fuck this champion (Yes, he beats Kat, and in a "I have no counterplay" sort of way if he's even half-decent. You quite literally have to forego laning phase against even a decent Yas). > {{champion:7}} Sort of? Kat can win fairly easily past level 2. > {{champion:79}} Just don't fight him. There, done, Kat beats him. > {{champion:74}} No. > {{champion:1}} No. > {{champion:90}} Sort of? Depends on whether or not his jungler is willing to suck him. > {{champion:131}} Yeah, champ's dumb. > {{champion:127}} No. > {{champion:85}} No. > {{champion:268}} Skill matchup, Kat favoured. > > I'll also add some more: > > {{champion:105}} : Smashes Kat so long as his brain isn't that of a fish. > {{champion:266}} : A bruiser sent mid, Kat hates bruisers...you get the picture. > {{champion:246}} : A spammable stun, stealth+movement speed, high damage and an ult that is almost guaranteed to hit if you even so much as think about jumping on her past 6. Oh, and did I mention her having high damage? Cause she does have high damage. > {{champion:82}} : Broken. Just broken. If he ever gets through ban phase he'll beat ANYONE in lane and out of lane. He needs some more nerfs ASAP. > {{champion:142}} : Not really a losing matchup, just an unfavourable one. Zoe does a ridiculous amount of damage, and her W more or less allows her to "cheat" the matchup. > {{champion:517}} : This champ's design besides ult is dumb. His healing is dumb and his damage is dumb. Overall....just dumb, that's my word for him. Definitely beats Kat, so your only option past Plat is just to not fight him in lane EVER (unless your jungler comes). {{champion:84}} Akali is crazy trash vs katarina, not favored for her. {{champion:69}} true {{champion:39}} can be outplayed, does not "dumpster" {{champion:38}} conquerer is trash in general imo but yes it helps vs kass also hexdrinker makes kat impossible to kill for kass unless the kat is bad. {{champion:50}} swain is literally hard trolling right now and kat is an impossible match up for swain. {{champion:8}} lame matchup true but ignite gives kat an edge unless vlad is a genuine puss. {{champion:157}} 50/50 match up, skill based ive lost to yasuos and ive beaten them purely skill based. however he will most likely push you in. {{champion:7}} overnerfed easy to beat. {{champion:79}} even if he manages to land his combo (without the ult) kat outdamages him + just poke him with daggers :/ {{champion:74}} is trash into kat {{champion:1}} barrier and its easy. {{champion:90}} cant beat kat 1v1 {{champion:131}} bane of my existence {{champion:127}} she used to pre aftershock changes not anymore tho {{champion:85}} is he even picked mid and even then what is he gonna do to kat? {{champion:268}} lane is entirely up to how good azir is unless he manages to mess up 1 thing cant wont beat him. {{champion:105}} thankfully most of fizz mains are that with a fish brain but ye he can mess up kat :( {{champion:266}} I personally see no issue with him i can dance around his Q like a fish :p {{champion:246}} outplayable {{champion:82}} ... nerf plz riot said they are better at hotfixing clearly not :/ {{champion:142}} pretty easy to beat imo. even if you get hit by a bubble (which with W can be dodged quite easily imo) you still drop a W regardless and she will take some damage while you are stunned and after the stun you can continue to do your damage as she used her entire kit. {{champion:517}} imo is beatable, poke with Q dodging chain is piss easy with E, whilst poking him dont go close enough to let him use W and in lane you should be good. :/ :^)
> [{quoted}](name=KittyKatKatarina,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hyRvBTPE,comment-id=0005000000000000000200030000,timestamp=2019-07-15T21:12:24.114+0000) > > {{champion:84}} Akali is crazy trash vs katarina, not favored for her. > {{champion:69}} true > {{champion:39}} can be outplayed, does not "dumpster" > {{champion:38}} conquerer is trash in general imo but yes it helps vs kass also hexdrinker makes kat impossible to kill for kass unless the kat is bad. > {{champion:50}} swain is literally hard trolling right now and kat is an impossible match up for swain. > {{champion:8}} lame matchup true but ignite gives kat an edge unless vlad is a genuine puss. > {{champion:157}} 50/50 match up, skill based ive lost to yasuos and ive beaten them purely skill based. however he will most likely push you in. > {{champion:7}} overnerfed easy to beat. > {{champion:79}} even if he manages to land his combo (without the ult) kat outdamages him + just poke him with daggers :/ > {{champion:74}} is trash into kat > {{champion:1}} barrier and its easy. > {{champion:90}} cant beat kat 1v1 > {{champion:131}} bane of my existence > {{champion:127}} she used to pre aftershock changes not anymore tho > {{champion:85}} is he even picked mid and even then what is he gonna do to kat? > {{champion:268}} lane is entirely up to how good azir is unless he manages to mess up 1 thing cant wont beat him. > {{champion:105}} thankfully most of fizz mains are that with a fish brain but ye he can mess up kat :( > {{champion:266}} I personally see no issue with him i can dance around his Q like a fish :p > {{champion:246}} outplayable > {{champion:82}} ... nerf plz riot said they are better at hotfixing clearly not :/ > {{champion:142}} pretty easy to beat imo. even if you get hit by a bubble (which with W can be dodged quite easily imo) you still drop a W regardless and she will take some damage while you are stunned and after the stun you can continue to do your damage as she used her entire kit. > {{champion:517}} imo is beatable, poke with Q dodging chain is piss easy with E, whilst poking him dont go close enough to let him use W and in lane you should be good. :/ > > :^) You clearly haven't seen KatEvolved's match ups against Kennen. Kennen vastly outdamages Katarina and brings a metric ton of CC to boot. It's obvious you haven't seen a good one mid, otherwise you'd know he's a nightmare for most melee champs. The top Katarina challenger could barely duel him, and only in late game when he got fed as Katarina and still almost died. Where Katarina beats Kennen is in lane prio and ability to roam, but Kenne is far more impactful on teamfights with ult as he is not relegated to clean up, but rather he sets up engages and cleans up at the same time to boot. Aatrox doesn't need to land Q's to kill you after he buys mercs and death's dance. It's OK, bruisers are supposed to counter assassins; Zed and Akali are just busted and the exception to the rule. Yasuo doesn't win by killing you, rather by keeping you pushed in and away from roaming to bot lane, which lets him scale to 3+ items at which point he becomes impossible to duel and split pushes far better than you while being still as useful in TF.
Hotarµ (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Radiant Wukong,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=292drrqz,comment-id=000100000005,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:23:59.359+0000) > > That isn't the reason Yasuo is hated. You're honestly trying to tell me that the reason Yasuo is hated isn't because of his windwall or dashes? Go look at any "Yasuo is BS/OP" post and I seriously doubt you'll find one that doesn't relate to those two abilities.
> [{quoted}](name=Hotarµ,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=292drrqz,comment-id=0001000000050000,timestamp=2019-07-15T14:35:23.060+0000) > > You're honestly trying to tell me that the reason Yasuo is hated isn't because of his windwall or dashes? Go look at any "Yasuo is BS/OP" post and I seriously doubt you'll find one that doesn't relate to those two abilities. By morons. He doesn't kill people with just his dashes and windwall. He kills people by being a huge stat check champ that scales ridiculously with bloodthirster and sterak's alongside statik shiv with massive healing from ingenious hunter and conqueror since his Q procs all his on hit effects on multiple minions. It's as if Vladimir was strong right from lv2. That's why people hate Yasuo, because you can somehow miraculously survive his ridiculous damage in lane and still end up losing to him after a lane stomp since he can farm sidelanes and becomes a god with 3+ items no matter how badly he lost.
: Why is League of Legends so polarizingly infuriating even for casual players?
In PvE games, you can kick an underperforming/trolling player and replace them immediately for the next pull of a boss. In a pvp match, you can't have underperformers removed, and those same people can veto your first surrender vote, forcing you to waste 20+ minutes of your life on a game they helped snowball against you. Essentially, this game holds you hostage to bad teammates, be it because they lost rather badly, or they intentionally ruin the game for fun with troll picks like Garen or Zoe jg, Garen with conqueror, champions that clearly were not meant for that role and you know will end up in a completely lopsided game. And the game FORCES you to play a game out in a fashion that is all about which side gets the worst player to get snowballed on. It's OK to lose lane, it's a competitive setting. But when you have teammates that purposely troll jg champ picks, people who afk split push and don't react to map objectives or rotate, it is incredibly maddening that the game punishes you by not allowing you to get out of that match ASAP and move to a more enjoyable match. Instead, you are forced to play a game out where a teammate allowed the opponent to snowball on you and farm you to death. Or if you do force close the game, you get a leaver warning and time out from the queue. How can people not get mad with this? If you are forced to play with people who don't have the same goals in a match as you do (win), then obviously people will go off in chat. Because it's really all you can do considering you can't AFK at base without a leavebuster or you can't have a 4 man surrender at 15 because that one asshole feeding vetoed it. If people were allowed to vote surrender earlier with less vetoes, a lot of the anger would be reduced. But having 20-30 minutes of your life wasted in a match that you have no hope of doing anything thanks to someone else's choices is an awful experience.
Manxxom (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Rose Muffins,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:47:50.713+0000) > > I can't deny the skin is absolutely amazing to look at... But I did audibly groan (in a room by myself) when I saw who it was in the trailer. Something about Pyke getting a Project skin didn't sit with me. Maybe I just don't like Pyke? A lot of people hate pyke for the wrongs reasons... Mainly his heal, but reminder he cannot build tank so he isn't as broken as terms as tahm kench.
> [{quoted}](name=Manxxom,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=xHg6oMfO,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-14T17:50:56.840+0000) > > A lot of people hate pyke for the wrongs reasons... > Mainly his heal, but reminder he cannot build tank so he isn't as broken as terms as tahm kench. Doesn't matter he can't build tank when he has a movement speed and a stun to whoever engages on him, which allows him to always determine attempts at engagement unless he eats a Morgana bind. The heal is not the problem. The dash stun with a ridiculous OP execute ult that resets without the same work Darius and Urgot have to put into their executes (let alone Garen's terrible execute, which is just a flat out worse pyke execute). Pyke does cleanup way too well and the worst part is he has to do nothing to achieve that. At least Katarina has to do work to make sue of her resets.
: nerfs dont fix the fundamental problem league has in melee vs. range matchups. melee champions need ways to answer this kind of ranged poke, so these lanes can become more than "can i interact as little with my opponent as possible until my jungler may or may not show up?"
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=292drrqz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-07-14T19:56:12.517+0000) > > nerfs dont fix the fundamental problem league has in melee vs. range matchups. > > melee champions need ways to answer this kind of ranged poke, so these lanes can become more than "can i interact as little with my opponent as possible until my jungler may or may not show up?" Or you stop being a moron and play with Doran's shield and go for aggressive trades because one flash combo can finish a ranged top laner off? Try cheesing a top lane with Karma/teemo on a halfway decent Riven or Irelia. Watch how you get chunked for 60-70% health in one trade and finished off the next, and become irrelevant by lv6 and dead weight to your team. If you are seeing a Teemo/ranged top lane and are not picking a Riven/Irelia/Renekton/Aatrox and beating the living crap out of them, you done goofed up. If you wanted to keep Teleport instead of grabbing Ghost, you done goofed up. Darius shits on ranged top laners with flash+ghost if he starts dorans with his usual challenger top pick aftershock build giving him second wind on top of the doran shield passive. You then wait till phase rush passive or an autoattack poke (most champ autoattacks place them in range of your Q blade poke or Apprehend due to the animation lock of autoattacks and abilities) and dumpster them. I don't get this r%%%%%ed co%%%%%nt about ranged top lanes. They are autolosing the game for their team by going ranged and denying their bot lane and mid lane an actual frontline unless their jungler picks a Sejuani/Nunu+Alistair jg and support. Once Darius or Garen and especially Jax/Fiora/Irelia/Renekton get their boots, triforce and the first defensive item it's game over for that lane as they can split push unmolested and are more useful in a teamfight than the ranged top laner ever will be.
Wacky9 (NA)
: %health damage should be designed like QSS: it exists, but only on items that are so crappy the only value they offer is %health damage. I still think people should have to itemize against tanks, I just think that in order to do so, they should make some sacrifices.
> [{quoted}](name=Wacky9,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TrLacBkA,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-07-14T05:27:25.914+0000) > > %health damage should be designed like QSS: it exists, but only on items that are so crappy the only value they offer is %health damage. I still think people should have to itemize against tanks, I just think that in order to do so, they should make some sacrifices. I'm of the mindset that archetypes matter, and only ADC's and specialized bruisers should be disposing of tanks in TF. When a Zed can treat a Poppy on full armor items like butter with BC+LDR and just with BC alone negate any armor a caster or ADC will have, that's just busted. Assassins should never be 1v1'ing tanks, period. And building armor should matter and not be completely trivialized by 2 items.
Moody P (NA)
: I think a big issue for tanks is having 0 rune choice
Runes have jackshit to do with it. The issue is bruisers and fighters have similar survival in lane to you if not better and better damage, which means they can zone you off xp and CS all lane long and set you back by as much as 1-2 items. And since ADC's have been buffed to all hell back again because they cried about mages in their lane, tanks are getting melted not only by bruisers and AD assassins with BC+LDR, but the ADC's and the likes of Yi, Udyr, etc. And in the rare circumstance where tank stats matter again, Trundle will become meta and make tanks feel terrible if they don't ban him anyways. Tanks need to feel like actual tanks and they need to be able to stay relevant in CS and xp without buffing their damage. Honestly, armor pen should not exist for any champs but ADC's, and % health damage items like BoRK need to be deleted.
: It doesn't matter when his heal is so over the cap it doesn't matter. If you have a HP bar of 2000 and you heal for 3000, 50% of that got negate by grievous is still a 1500 which is more than enough to negate all your team dmg. How do you get 3000? well, 400ad x (70%selfheal on ult + 30% items life steal) x land on 3-5 enemies= 1200-2000 x 3Q land= 3600-6000 heal. Darius heal on missing health doesn't even come close to this.
> [{quoted}](name=Pastakill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RY407bkl,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2019-07-13T11:35:18.342+0000) > > It doesn't matter when his heal is so over the cap it doesn't matter. If you have a HP bar of 2000 and you heal for 3000, 50% of that got negate by grievous is still a 1500 which is more than enough to negate all your team dmg. How do you get 3000? well, 400ad x (70%selfheal on ult + 30% items life steal) x land on 3-5 enemies= 1200-2000 x 3Q land= 3600-6000 heal. > Darius heal on missing health doesn't even come close to this. Darius Q is not completely item and ult dependent to achieve this, which means his uptime on sustain is far more reliable. Moreover, good luck consistently landing sweet spot Q's on multiple people with the current state of CC. You'll be chunked down in less than 3 seconds as aatrox if you rushed AD items and death's dance before any armor. Aatrox is hilariously squishy. I was on warwick and got a shit ass passive ekko who didn't respond to ganks so the Aatrox got double kills on us and then a few more from roaming, and it didn't matter because by midgame when I got bramble vest on warwick and my ult, the aatrox lost 70% of his health alone to being locked down by my ult by the 3/5 kayle and my 2/3 Lucian only to come out and be feared and finished off. And this is warwick, not even a Sejuani, Skarner, Udyr, Nunu or Xin Zhao.
: Shocker, another griefer not getting banned because he didn't call me an asshole in chat.
> [{quoted}](name=Forge God Ornn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=ebVMTwzp,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-12T01:46:40.485+0000) > > I'm so glad that I can read these hour-long monologues from people who know they're skirting the system by following me around in-game trying to steal my jungle camps because he's pissed off that our support accidentally banned out his champion in picks/bans and needs to grief everyone else because of it. > > Riot really needs to get **punished** for this kind of neglect. Neglect is this company forcing me to play out a game with a guy who not only picked Garen jg, but did so with CONQUEROR (Garen's E only procs one stack of conqueror for its whole channel, making Garen THE worst top laner to grab conqueror on). I am simply tired of this game letting people who purposely ruin games for others from the very beginning of champ select make it through.
: He's got a strong early game, but only if he gets ahead early. But he's shredded by late game hyper carries such as Jax, Yi, Twitch, Vayne, and the like.
> [{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ejivp34r,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-07-12T09:49:04.290+0000) > > He's got a strong early game, but only if he gets ahead early. But he's shredded by late game hyper carries such as Jax, Yi, Twitch, Vayne, and the like. They shred everyone, so....
: Aatrox’s lifesteal, not his revive, is what gives him identity.
> [{quoted}](name=Deathhawk888,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RY407bkl,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-07-13T03:09:02.052+0000) > > People are mad that Aatrox is getting his revive removed because it was “part of his core identity.” But is it really? Oldtrox’s revive was terrible. You’d have to rack up hits to activate his revive for a short amount of time, and even then, most of the time you would just sit there and die 2 seconds later. What made Aatrox unique was his lifesteal, which they’re buffing. He went from a lifesteal dueler to a drain tank. They’re keeping what made him stand out as Darkin: tons of lifesteal like Rhaast. Aatrox's lifesteal becomes irrelevant a single opponent in the team builds grievous wounds. Then he just becomes a squishier, less mobile Riven since all his survival is tied to his self healing and GW is so freely available.
Eldeazar (EUW)
: Yup, he has dashes, damage, cc, healing, invisibility and an execute. Meanwhile...champions like mundo heal and slow... My point being new releases make the old champions so obsolete they seem to belong on another game. The meta changes but all champions should feel engaging and new releases shouldn't be so packed with tools
> [{quoted}](name=Eldeazar,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nu1bgyQk,comment-id=00010003,timestamp=2019-07-13T02:08:37.775+0000) > > Yup, he has dashes, damage, cc, healing, invisibility and an execute. > Meanwhile...champions like mundo heal and slow... My point being new releases make the old champions so obsolete they seem to belong on another game. The meta changes but all champions should feel engaging and new releases shouldn't be so packed with tools The kits are fine, the problem is the tuning. You have a mix of survival, mobility, CC, and damage. Characters high in damage should never have high CC and survivability, or if they have any of those, then they can't have mobility. Champions with high mobility, CC, and damage are breaking the game. That's why Akali and Zed are a headache to balance. They get all the perks of assassins, high burst and mobility, while getting the perks of defensive tools that allow them to juke away damage that is supposed to keep assassins in check with their innate squishiness. You then have champions like Irelia, Darius, Mordekaiser and Jax in top lane all breaking their role because their weaknesses are being shored up by current base stats and itemizations. Kite the Darius? He's the only top laner besides Mordekaiser who can run top lane with ghost and still dominate the lane against an opponent with ignite. With ghost and the phage passive and a 535 pull, Darius becomes stupidly hard to kite, especially when he finishes triforce and deadman's plate. It also doesn't help that his one weakness happens to be what very few of top laners can bring, a range advantage. Melee champions either have to be as busted as stat checks like Jax, Renekton, or Mordekaiser, or you are relegated to being zoned out of CS and xp into irrelevance. Current Shen and Maokai are champions that are balanced at their current role. They are tanky and have survival, but their damage is not out of control and their mobility isn't overtuned. Their CC is also tempered by their low threat range. On the assassin spectrum you have Katarina and Qiyana, who have assassination threat, but in order to do their damage they have to sacrifice their defensive tools, and their trading pattern is full of counterplay. And in the jungle you have the likes of Elise, who has cc, damage, and mobility, but she's made of paper to compensate and her engagement tool is also her escape so she has to choose to commit and have no escapes for a while or to escape and lose momentum. Nunu is a real tank with CC, but outside his ult has low damage as a tradeoff. Meanwhile Zed and Akali get to be both offensive while keeping their defensive perks at the same time. Something has to give.
: I don't remember Irelia reviving.
> [{quoted}](name=MacneCieMacko,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:23:14.599+0000) > > I don't remember Irelia reviving. Because Irelia halves her damage intake with W, has a ranged stun, crazy mobility and easy lane sustain via Q while being one of the best backline divers in the game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:17:00.847+0000) > > He's a bruiser. Try eating Fiora/Irelia/Jax/Darius/Mordekaiser melee hits. > > At least Aatrox gets gutted by grievous wounds. So in short, just not fun to play against? All of those champions you've mentioned are really unfun to play against. I almost never win against them unless they don't know what they are doing. I've gotten so used to hard snowballing or failing in top lane every game. UnFun.
> [{quoted}](name=Whyskered Wyrm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:28:40.632+0000) > > So in short, just not fun to play against? All of those champions you've mentioned are really unfun to play against. I almost never win against them unless they don't know what they are doing. I've gotten so used to hard snowballing or failing in top lane every game. UnFun. Top lane will always be a stat check if a champion doesn't have crazy defensive and mobility skills to compensate like Akali. It's simply the nature of melee vs. melee. It's sort of how Annie feels against 95% of mid laners, because their stat check on her is their range and she can't do anything to keep from getting poked out of lane and shoved in based on her starting kit.
MaFyO2154 (EUW)
: the game would be less toxic if the game would be more enjoyable
Won't matter. Like all PvP games, your enjoyment is reliant on other people who you can't remove immediately from a match is they're significantly underperforming, whereas in PvE games you can kick a guy after a pull and replace. In LoL, you are stuck with the inting lanes or afk jg/split pusher for 20+ minutes in an inevitable but slow loss. It also feels terrible because it's a coinflip of the team who does not get the worst player in the match is the one that wins, as teams win by capitalizing off the worst player in the enemy team and taking that snowball to other lanes.
: I couldn’t care less about getting camped. If I don’t die then the jungler is just trolling his team
> [{quoted}](name=kaisas asscheeks,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6KgEfiwy,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:06:21.432+0000) > > I couldn’t care less about getting camped. If I don’t die then the jungler is just trolling his team Jungler doesn't need to kill you. Putting you at a health deficit so the enemy top laner can take lane prio and zone you off CS and xp is often enough. A jungler who doesn't camp top lane early is doing it wrong. It's far easier to get results off top lane than any other lane. Bt lanes have ton of CC and peel, and mid lane is much closer to turret on top of the fact most midlanes are ranged champs.
: Even when i dodge his sweetspots, he can kill me with autos. What am i missing?
> [{quoted}](name=Whyskered Wyrm,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ad3q3JEg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-07-11T19:14:35.627+0000) > > Even when i dodge his sweetspots, he can kill me with autos. What am i missing? He's a bruiser. Try eating Fiora/Irelia/Jax/Darius/Mordekaiser melee hits. At least Aatrox gets gutted by grievous wounds.
: So an assasin killed another assasin? i mean, rengar doesnt have to build straight assasin, in this example i have spirit visage. But If we are being analytical, rengar could build zhonyas, as he does have a W scaling, and then zeds useless all game vs him. You are right tho, dying in 2 seconds as pretty much any class is pretty trash and common these days. This was assuming Yoloq Where you can be vs mundo, vlad, rhast, soraka, and draven and your the only one building grievous wounds. Pro play and solo q are vastly different. Which is kinda why so many balance problems exist in yoloq
> [{quoted}](name=Eonslegacy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WizmyFEi,comment-id=000700020000000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-11T06:58:05.765+0000) > > So an assasin killed another assasin? i mean, rengar doesnt have to build straight assasin, in this example i have spirit visage. But If we are being analytical, rengar could build zhonyas, as he does have a W scaling, and then zeds useless all game vs him. You are right tho, dying in 2 seconds as pretty much any class is pretty trash and common these days. > This was assuming Yoloq Where you can be vs mundo, vlad, rhast, soraka, and draven and your the only one building grievous wounds. > Pro play and solo q are vastly different. Which is kinda why so many balance problems exist in yoloq Zed is far from useless with Zhonyas. By the time mages have Zhonyas built (which is usually 2nd item), Zed has enough lethality and CDR to not need the mark damage to kill you, since Zhonyas puts you in stasis just for him to set up 2 shadows and land a triple Q+E the moment you come out of stasis as you are stationary. That's more than enough to kill most mages/assassins. Zhonyas barely bothers Zed, because his Q is a <6 sec cd and he will always have his Q+E back by the time you come out of stasis. And Rengar building Zhonyas is complete troll and makes him utterly irrelevant in the game for assassination purposes.
: Let’s look at why tanks are currently not of high value
LDR should be a ranged character only item. Pretty dumb assassins like Zed can build BC+LDR and treat any tank as if he were a mage. Jax, Darius, Fiora and Irelia all with conqueror just completely bust up tanks and zone them from farm, so tank champions should have increased passive gold generation if they are by designed intended to not be able to contest bruisers in lane. In general, tank resistances and sustain are too easily trivialized either by keystone itemization, or top lane passive match ups like bruisers or ranged cheese lanes, and Riot's solution has been to give tanks damage creep instead, which only leads to problems in teamfighting that sees them nerfed back down in no time. And in the instance when tanks become relevant, Trundle will become a must pick and be either pick or ban since Trundle pretty much dumps on tanks and makes them useless in TF with his ult.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b00010000,timestamp=2019-07-06T00:20:41.499+0000) > > Except for most assassins outside Zed and Akali there is not going out once you've committed in, and what ends up happening when you go for either the support or ADC in reality is that IF you are lucky, you are looking at a 1 for 1. You go in, and die to a Sejuani ult or Jax stun or the Syndra/Oriana wombo combo. > > Assassins are absolutely dogshit at constesting objectives and sieging, and with the introduction of bruisers and duelists like Jax/Fiora/trynda, no assassin but Zed can even take the role of split pusher to compensate for their deficits in teamfighting. {{champion:28}} Can escape fairly good with ult. {{champion:245}} Ulti again. Beside escape he also gets lots of health. {{champion:105}} With Zhonya untargetable 3 times. Without it he still got untargetable for a short time+some escape with it. {{champion:38}} Free flash like every 3 seconds.... If got Zhonya then literary untargetable during the entire CD. {{champion:55}} If target dies, then long range jump to ally, or just kill next target. {{champion:121}} Invisibility. Gives enough time to escape, or team to catch up. {{champion:7}} Back where she came from. Or start moving opposite direction, and unless team is seriously cooperative they won't track both possibility. {{champion:11}} No good escape, but untargetable like every 3 second, and can become tank for a time with heal. {{champion:76}} No good escape, or defense here. But she can try playing a long range poker instead. She is probably the weakest from these. {{champion:56}} No good escape either, but tankier, than most. {{champion:107}} Ult can be used for escape, if not used for engage. {{champion:35}} ... {{champion:238}} Back where he came from+free flash. {{champion:91}} If ult not used for engage, then easy escape. Also if there are walls nearby, then easy escape. 11 from 14 got escape. Also the trick is not going in first, and not going in 1v many. If you go 1v5, and die without killing, then it's your fault.
> [{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b000100000000,timestamp=2019-07-06T10:58:29.953+0000) > > {{champion:28}} Can escape fairly good with ult. > {{champion:245}} Ulti again. Beside escape he also gets lots of health. > {{champion:105}} With Zhonya untargetable 3 times. Without it he still got untargetable for a short time+some escape with it. > {{champion:38}} Free flash like every 3 seconds.... If got Zhonya then literary untargetable during the entire CD. > {{champion:55}} If target dies, then long range jump to ally, or just kill next target. > {{champion:121}} Invisibility. Gives enough time to escape, or team to catch up. > {{champion:7}} Back where she came from. Or start moving opposite direction, and unless team is seriously cooperative they won't track both possibility. > {{champion:11}} No good escape, but untargetable like every 3 second, and can become tank for a time with heal. > {{champion:76}} No good escape, or defense here. But she can try playing a long range poker instead. She is probably the weakest from these. > {{champion:56}} No good escape either, but tankier, than most. > {{champion:107}} Ult can be used for escape, if not used for engage. > {{champion:35}} ... > {{champion:238}} Back where he came from+free flash. > {{champion:91}} If ult not used for engage, then easy escape. Also if there are walls nearby, then easy escape. > > 11 from 14 got escape. Also the trick is not going in first, and not going in 1v many. If you go 1v5, and die without killing, then it's your fault. Untargetable means jackshit when all it takes is one CC to blow you up and all of them besides Ekko (who doesn't have the burst of most assassins) rely on ult to get a kill, which is negated by later usage of PD+GA and support shields. You also say free flash every 3 seconds, well that is late game and it currently takes less than 3 seconds for an assassin to be blown up in late game. A draven or jinx late game with just 2 autos is stripping off 2/3 of your health as an assassin. You laughably say that these assassins have an escape if they don't use their engage. Well, guess what, Rengar ain't killing shit without his ult and Talon isn't proccing passive without his ult either since only vegetables get hit by his return rake with all its delay and the fact Talon's single engagement tool is a short range 575 linear leap that means it's easily foiled by linear CC since opponents will always know where he lands. Doesn't matter Fizz is untargetable with his pole, because he fucking needs to use it to land his damage rotation, by the time its cooldown is back he's dead in a teamfight. There is a reason LCS doesn't use assassins besides Akali. Assassins suck ass the moment you have a single tank jungler or support in the team comp since you just get immediately peeled in teamfights and both bruisers and ADC's outscale you. This makes an assassin pointless because a late game Jax or Irelia or Renekton or Aatrox assassinates a backline way better while being far more survivable than any assassin.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-07-04T00:39:06.734+0000) > > How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled. > > Lifesteal and shields are busted with the adc+supp combos currently, forcing assassins to have 1-2 shot levels of damage since they die to 3 ADC autos if they don't kill the ADC before the supp shields them or CC's the assassin. > > But that doesn't mean you gotta give a few bruisers like renekton and kled champion specific tools to deal with these. > > Just nerf the damn shields and lifesteal. > > Remove AD from GA. That's really what breaks ADC, the fact they can get a damage item that also gives them armor and a resurrection after all the effort is invested getting through a frontline, myriad CC and support shields and heals just to kill a single ADC that didn't actually die. I wouldn't mind removing, or nerfing all shields, and heals on non-support champions. Or more like these self shielders/healers. Especially in current mechanics health bar is simply the second best way of defense. The best way is becoming untargetable/invulnerable. It's the support's job to keep the ADC alive. If you don't like it, then you might oneshot the support first. Or just target someone else. Or just wait until Support wastes the CDs for someone else. Or just escape when support CDs out. Most assassins have lower CD on their combos, than supports. At least the truly protective ones such as Soraka, Lulu, and Janna. By nerfing them you might remove them entirely. You might remove the support as role entirely, and have a damage helping botlane. After all with current mechanics there is no point having a pure tank champion anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=The Kombinator,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b0001,timestamp=2019-07-05T10:08:53.851+0000) > > I wouldn't mind removing, or nerfing all shields, and heals on non-support champions. Or more like these self shielders/healers. Especially in current mechanics health bar is simply the second best way of defense. The best way is becoming untargetable/invulnerable. > > It's the support's job to keep the ADC alive. If you don't like it, then you might oneshot the support first. Or just target someone else. Or just wait until Support wastes the CDs for someone else. Or just escape when support CDs out. Most assassins have lower CD on their combos, than supports. At least the truly protective ones such as Soraka, Lulu, and Janna. By nerfing them you might remove them entirely. You might remove the support as role entirely, and have a damage helping botlane. After all with current mechanics there is no point having a pure tank champion anyway. Except for most assassins outside Zed and Akali there is not going out once you've committed in, and what ends up happening when you go for either the support or ADC in reality is that IF you are lucky, you are looking at a 1 for 1. You go in, and die to a Sejuani ult or Jax stun or the Syndra/Oriana wombo combo. Assassins are absolutely dogshit at constesting objectives and sieging, and with the introduction of bruisers and duelists like Jax/Fiora/trynda, no assassin but Zed can even take the role of split pusher to compensate for their deficits in teamfighting.
Heos00 (NA)
: If you start giving shield breakers to assassins (and other champions) they will be overpowered, not all the games lasts until adcs and supports are able to do something and not every adc buys PH since it's trash compared to RFC and not everyone go shield supports other than Lux (that's overpowered because of aftershock), theres no reason to give shield breakers to any champion since the state of the game is a fast damage meta. Even with shields a zed full build vs an ezreal full build (with lux as a support and ezreal tabis-gauntlet) is able to being oneshooted by Zed.
> [{quoted}](name=Heos00,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-07-03T21:51:36.053+0000) > > If you start giving shield breakers to assassins (and other champions) they will be overpowered, not all the games lasts until adcs and supports are able to do something and not every adc buys PH since it's trash compared to RFC and not everyone go shield supports other than Lux (that's overpowered because of aftershock), theres no reason to give shield breakers to any champion since the state of the game is a fast damage meta. Even with shields a zed full build vs an ezreal full build (with lux as a support and ezreal tabis-gauntlet) is able to being oneshooted by Zed. That's an issue with Zed being a broken assassin with the highest scaling damage of all assassins besides Akali. This is easily fixed by changing Lord Dominik's Regard's to only work for ranged champions, as it should be that ADC's are tank counters, and melee besides immobile bruisers should be countered by armor. Since Zed core builds BC and LDR currently, he has way too much armor pen that he shouldn't have. It would also help if they revamped his ult so it does a fixed % HP damage total when triggered by 3 strikes instead of multiplying all damage he does, which is what breaks his scaling late game.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T02:51:52.047+0000) > > Except that's virtually most of the supports being played right now, and the problem is clearly support shields on ADC. > > Obviously nobody is going to nerf Viktor's shields or junglers, but they sure as hell can nerf support items, shields and healing, and nerf ADC lifesteal stats from their items by placing a split in damage between ranged and melee champions that reduces ADC healing substantially. > > ADC's are meant to be fragile at all states of the game, not just early. They're really not right now thanks to current shields and lifedrain once they build PD/bloodthirster and GA alongside support heals/shielding. Except your not punishing ADCs with this, your nerfing the entire team. If the support was ONLY able to shield an ADC your idea works but since they are able to shield all 5 players including themselves, a blanket nerf to their shields hurts everyone simultaneously. If you want to nerf ADCs why not just nerf ADCs lol. PD should have never been a ranged steraks. Do we not remember that they specifically removed steraks from ranged champs because of how broke it was? With the support revamp and generally increased sustain via them in the game PDs power is able to be tuned down.
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b000000000000,timestamp=2019-07-04T11:42:56.447+0000) > > Except your not punishing ADCs with this, your nerfing the entire team. If the support was ONLY able to shield an ADC your idea works but since they are able to shield all 5 players including themselves, a blanket nerf to their shields hurts everyone simultaneously. If you want to nerf ADCs why not just nerf ADCs lol. PD should have never been a ranged steraks. Do we not remember that they specifically removed steraks from ranged champs because of how broke it was? With the support revamp and generally increased sustain via them in the game PDs power is able to be tuned down. Short of nerfing PD and GA, support shields are impossible to tune without collateral damage. Which is why their kit should be shifted away from shields and healing, to other kinds of enhancements or have mechanisms introduce that reduce the effectiveness of shields by introducing diminishing returns to shielding.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-07-04T00:39:06.734+0000) > > How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled. > Because then you can't play shields mid, jg or supports. You can't just blanket nerf shields when shields in other roles aren't strong. P.S. why are people complaining about renekton when he isn't even like statistically the best right now? Many champions on many different metrics are pound for pound outperforming him.
> [{quoted}](name=I Play This Game,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=T8fXzkXh,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-07-04T02:37:42.304+0000) > > Because then you can't play shields mid, jg or supports. You can't just blanket nerf shields when shields in other roles aren't strong. > > P.S. why are people complaining about renekton when he isn't even like statistically the best right now? Many champions on many different metrics are pound for pound outperforming him. Except that's virtually most of the supports being played right now, and the problem is clearly support shields on ADC. Obviously nobody is going to nerf Viktor's shields or junglers, but they sure as hell can nerf support items, shields and healing, and nerf ADC lifesteal stats from their items by placing a split in damage between ranged and melee champions that reduces ADC healing substantially. ADC's are meant to be fragile at all states of the game, not just early. They're really not right now thanks to current shields and lifedrain once they build PD/bloodthirster and GA alongside support heals/shielding.
: Renekton's shield-breaking W is basically a giant "fuck you"
How about we nerf shields instead of buffing already oppressive top laners like Renekton and Kled. Lifesteal and shields are busted with the adc+supp combos currently, forcing assassins to have 1-2 shot levels of damage since they die to 3 ADC autos if they don't kill the ADC before the supp shields them or CC's the assassin. But that doesn't mean you gotta give a few bruisers like renekton and kled champion specific tools to deal with these. Just nerf the damn shields and lifesteal. Remove AD from GA. That's really what breaks ADC, the fact they can get a damage item that also gives them armor and a resurrection after all the effort is invested getting through a frontline, myriad CC and support shields and heals just to kill a single ADC that didn't actually die.
EATARI (NA)
: Or alternatively, git gud. Also Poppy is more of a niche counterpick than a generalist champion. I’d pick against Renekton, Aatrox, Yasuo or Riven in the top lane, and Yasuo, Lucian, or Kalista bot lane. Her passive gives her some nice poke in lane if you can manage Grasp of the Undying well with it’s cooldown.
> [{quoted}](name=EATARI,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=TEz2XRfV,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-07-03T15:48:18.032+0000) > > Or alternatively, git gud. Also Poppy is more of a niche counterpick than a generalist champion. I’d pick against Renekton, Aatrox, Yasuo or Riven in the top lane, and Yasuo, Lucian, or Kalista bot lane. Her passive gives her some nice poke in lane if you can manage Grasp of the Undying well with it’s cooldown. lol Aaatrox with ult will flat out outsustain you, dashes or not. Good thing I didn't mention Renekton or Riven, both champions who favor shorter trades instead of extended ones, basically what Poppy wants. What a great thing to hear for Poppy players by the way, when your champion is relegated to "niche counterpick". Probably the same experience Kalista and Quinn bot lane players are thinking.
: Kalista sees Poppy's W now grounding units that use movement abilities
Won't matter anyways because Poppy gets steamrolled in toplane by meta top laners like Darius, Morde, and Aatrox while being useless as supp in botlane as well because of how poke prone she is and her CC early is nowhere near as good as Pyke/Thresh/Rakhan while having none of their trading tools against ranged poke or offering shields or extra gold to the adc. They can buff tank utilities till cows fly. You can make Maokai ult an instant aoe root and his Q apply grievous wounds and it would make zero difference because if you can't make it out of laning phase without massive CS and xp deficit from being zoned out of CS by champions you can't 1v1, no amount of utility buffs will matter. You'll still be 1-2 levels down, 1-2 items behind the enemy top laners and completely useless as a result when contesting objectives or skirmishes, let alone split pushing.
: Pick one, do you prefer being countered by ranged champ or melee one?
> [{quoted}](name=DGAGAAsharpAGD,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KMEBQgVE,comment-id=000e0001,timestamp=2019-07-02T06:23:28.570+0000) > > Pick one, do you prefer being countered by ranged champ or melee one? I prefer counters not be as hard as they currently exist, but in a world of ADC's with massive lifesteal, shields from PD, GA revive, and support shields and CC, the only way to shut them down is to have assassin champs with virtually 1-2 shot burst because otherwise you die in 3 autoattacks from a scaled ADC and his sona/supp.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: 9.14 changes according to Riot Repertoir (Blitzcrank, Leona, Akali, Lux, Tahm kench)
Giving Kled and Renekton anti-shield and partifularly GW baseline is going to make much of top lane miserably oppressive, since so many Juggernauts flat out rely on self healing skills in top lane. Kled is already one of the more oppressive top laners.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hayaishi2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZOoq2HG,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2019-06-30T23:41:03.202+0000) > > Yes let me "right click you to death" with my dorans blade. > > Aiming a skillshot is not even hard when you are against champions that pretty much have 0 lane presence. Yeah let a mage burst you with {{item:1056}} or {{item:3303}} then ? Your logic makes no sense
> [{quoted}](name=Kitsune Kawaii,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZOoq2HG,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2019-07-01T02:38:28.582+0000) > > Yeah let a mage burst you with {{item:1056}} or {{item:3303}} then ? > Your logic makes no sense Especially since ADC's outDPS many mages early. I had the distinct displeasure of being cheesed by a Kai'sa mid as Annie. That garbage champ pre-6 virtually outburst me as a short range mage just with her Icathian rain and proceeded to auto me to death, all with her range advantage on top of the W poke and mobility advantage as well.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eGxAbOwk,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-06-30T08:31:53.682+0000) > > Good. > > I wish people played Rengar more. > > Let those ADC's and mages feel what it feels like to be an Illaoi or Garen and get mowed down by the unreachable ADC running you down in a couple of autoattacks. > > Now you know what your counter feels like. The what? Those champions one on one can handle a fair amount of adc's. And if your talking about in a team fight, then the enemy team is doing their job.......
> [{quoted}](name=Prismghost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eGxAbOwk,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-07-01T03:28:11.391+0000) > > The what? Those champions one on one can handle a fair amount of adc's. And if your talking about in a team fight, then the enemy team is doing their job....... Yeah, and in a teamfight the Rengar is doing his job by deleting the adc. It's called a counter. As Illaoi and Garen I can do nothing in a TF against a protected ADC and die to the Vayne/Xayah/Sivir regardless of how much armor I have built in a couple of seconds, because ADC's are the counters to tanks and bruisers in TF. Assassins are supposed to be the counters to ADC's.
: No more execution ults
Pyke's ult is plain broken. You have an ult like Garen or Eve or Urgot with strict requirements, and then they go and give Darius and Pyke these flat out better ults that also reset on kills for complete snowball on top of doing more total damage even above the threshold. Pyke in general is flat out oppressive because he doesn't even need to build stacks like Darius. Some target gets low and then his snowball starts, allowing him to delete tanks and adc's alike. All this while being incredibly slippery and having the damage and CC he does.
Kivolan (NA)
: Yasuo's Q - Why Is It Not Coded As AoE?
His Q also benefits from ravenous hunter, and with static shiv it gives him a ton of sustain in lane. In general, lifesteal needs to be heavily nerfed for any champions that are not immobile tanks/bruisers. High damage, high mobility or high range champs should simply not have the lifesteal they currently do. And adding to that, remove the AD from GA.
: Rengar’s Jump should be global
Good. I wish people played Rengar more. Let those ADC's and mages feel what it feels like to be an Illaoi or Garen and get mowed down by the unreachable ADC running you down in a couple of autoattacks. Now you know what your counter feels like.
Onerios (EUW)
: The reason why juggernauts are considered vulnerable to cc is that they typically have a combination of low threat range and target access combined with part of their ehp/sustain coming from being in combat, slows combined with well timed harder cc makes them deceptively squishy and at risk of spending a fight chasing someone but not getting anything done. Compare this to the typical mage (higher threat range), ADC (target agnostic and almost always has backup), or diving bruiser (burst mobility), almost all other champion classes cope better with the presence of cc (with the exception of assassins and hard cc, their survivability being centered around not being there to be hit rather then stats or windowed defenses).
> [{quoted}](name=Onerios,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T07:09:32.265+0000) > > The reason why juggernauts are considered vulnerable to cc is that they typically have a combination of low threat range and target access combined with part of their ehp/sustain coming from being in combat, slows combined with well timed harder cc makes them deceptively squishy and at risk of spending a fight chasing someone but not getting anything done. Compare this to the typical mage (higher threat range), ADC (target agnostic and almost always has backup), or diving bruiser (burst mobility), almost all other champion classes cope better with the presence of cc (with the exception of assassins and hard cc, their survivability being centered around not being there to be hit rather then stats or windowed defenses). Virtually all melee suffer this despite your manipulation. Good luck getting back onto a Caitlyn or Xayah as even Yasuo after the Alistair/Rakan/Pyke have stunned you off them and the Sejuani/Skarner/Vi/Rammus/Voli bear have tossed you around while the Syndra and Oriana are playing pinball with you as well. Blew your E as Ekko and got CC'd? Time to waste ult and be useless since you will have to wait out until that E is back up doing nothing and even then you won't have ult and will die shortly after the second round of CC's anyways. Blew your dash as Fiora and Irelia and got stunned off? Time to wait up on that cd while being squishier AND immobile during that cd than a Darius or Garen or Renekton. The obvious answer to all this conundrum is that your team should be pressuring the enemy team with CC in response so that the melee character is not blown up while they catch up back to the enemy. If your team picked just enchanters and assassin junglers with no CC tanks whatsoever to allow your melee to thrive, that's the fault of your team at champ select, not the design of juggernauts. Darius is one of the juggernauts who suffers the least from kiting. Unlike Illaoi or Garen, he has significant mobile in combat survival and damage with his Q, and he's the single one of them who can isolate a target upon reaching 535 range, easily reached with the use of ghost since he's the only one who can use that and still win lane compared to Illaoi or Garen. Darius is certainly no Ornn, Sion, or Shen in tankiness or pick potential, but he's currently one of the apex juggernauts in most tier lists for a reason. He crushes lanes and teamfights extremely well with massive snowball potential. He's also bar none the best anti-melee tank melee champ purely for his E passive. Nobody dispatches a frontline as a melee champ better than he does.
Socon (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=0002000100000000000000010001,timestamp=2019-06-28T05:49:05.837+0000) > > "kited to oblivion" > > Says the guy with base 5 more movement speed, who takes ghost summoner alongside flash most of the time and still wins lane, who rushes Phage, so he has a movement speed steroid once he hits anything, including minions, who also gets movement speed from trinity speed bonus, and builds deadman's plate on top. > > And has a 535 range Apprehend and a massive slow once the target gets put in melee range. WoW move speed is so helpful vs cc and terrain scaling!!!!!!!!!!!
> [{quoted}](name=Socon,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=00020001000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2019-06-28T06:04:30.221+0000) > > WoW move speed is so helpful vs cc and terrain scaling!!!!!!!!!!! CC virtually affects every champion, not just Darius. What the fuck are your support, junglers, and mages doing when the enemy CC's you.
Socon (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=00020001000000000000,timestamp=2019-06-28T02:36:36.974+0000) > > Darius max rank q (first ability maxed) cooldown 5 seconds. > > Now apply the 40% cdr EVERY bruiser gets tacked onto their items. > > 3 second cooldown. But you know. Definetly not spammable right? Oh no a 3 second Q you have to aim late game when everyone has mobility and you get kited into oblivion.... this q sure is great when i get melted in 2 seconds by the enemy vayne who just proced w 3 times in 2 seconds with rageblade. Im sure i can hit ezreal with my 3 second Q when his Q hits me with a giant slow every 1.8 seconds and blinks away from my grab. Oh yes i got my Q off finally! oh wait i died 2 seconds later anyway from being melted/focused because im trying to hit a Q when im low hp.
> [{quoted}](name=Socon,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yLWg3Ewk,comment-id=000200010000000000000001,timestamp=2019-06-28T02:59:09.467+0000) > > Oh no a 3 second Q you have to aim late game when everyone has mobility and you get kited into oblivion.... this q sure is great when i get melted in 2 seconds by the enemy vayne who just proced w 3 times in 2 seconds with rageblade. Im sure i can hit ezreal with my 3 second Q when his Q hits me with a giant slow every 1.8 seconds and blinks away from my grab. Oh yes i got my Q off finally! oh wait i died 2 seconds later anyway from being melted/focused because im trying to hit a Q when im low hp. "kited to oblivion" Says the guy with base 5 more movement speed, who takes ghost summoner alongside flash most of the time and still wins lane, who rushes Phage, so he has a movement speed steroid once he hits anything, including minions, who also gets movement speed from trinity speed bonus, and builds deadman's plate on top. And has a 535 range Apprehend and a massive slow once the target gets put in melee range.
: As much as I hate to say it: learn to work around he invade. Every invading jungler has a side preference, and a lane they stalk in addition to you. Go steal the opposite of his preference out of HIS jungle. And camp the other end of the map. Jungler can't be two places at once, and when you learn predictive play, stealing their jungle as a counter becomes easy, and also puts laners you gank off guard when you come from a different direction.
> [{quoted}](name=Illabethe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m5U3cxGI,comment-id=00330001,timestamp=2019-06-27T11:13:00.351+0000) > > As much as I hate to say it: learn to work around he invade. Every invading jungler has a side preference, and a lane they stalk in addition to you. Go steal the opposite of his preference out of HIS jungle. And camp the other end of the map. > > Jungler can't be two places at once, and when you learn predictive play, stealing their jungle as a counter becomes easy, and also puts laners you gank off guard when you come from a different direction. Sure, but when he invades me first and I have to walk all the other way to the side of the map, there is nothing preventing him from rotating with me if my laners don't collapse on him. That's the issue. I have had one Udyr cheese me at lv2 blue, but other Udyrs go for red instead. It's not reliable until you actually get invaded. And you are completely reliant on your laners reacting to the map to allow you to stay relevant to gank for them, because if they just afk farm lane you lose xp lead to enemy jg and the jg changes have made it so you're pretty much underleveled against anything but bot lane if you can't get early leads. Sure, an invade jg will look to a preference lane for ganks, but his priority will always be following the enemy jg because that's the single opponent he can reliably duel out whereas a lane gank is always a gamble.
: As a jungler, if you powerfarm, you are LITERALLY still falling behind in exp and gold. You are forced to gank to give advantage to your laners. If your laner loses his lane, its not his fault it's your according to them. I main Jungle since I started playing League and now I prefer playing Top or Mid because I actually get the chance to CARRY.
> [{quoted}](name=Almaterrador,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m5U3cxGI,comment-id=0041,timestamp=2019-06-26T20:37:38.913+0000) > > As a jungler, if you powerfarm, you are LITERALLY still falling behind in exp and gold. You are forced to gank to give advantage to your laners. If your laner loses his lane, its not his fault it's your according to them. I main Jungle since I started playing League and now I prefer playing Top or Mid because I actually get the chance to CARRY. Pretty much. And it makes it so you feel stuck playing early game duelists like Udyr/Xin Zhao and strong burst+CC champs like Vi+Volibear to play jungle because if you play anything like a Rammus or Khazix or Eve, virtually any champ that can't contest river crabs gets invaded into irrelevance and can't even catch up by ganking because if the enemy jungler takes your XP and camps because you can't fight him, you are likely 2+ levels behind the enemy laners you would try to gank and quickly die to anyways. People say they hate ganking junglers, but all they've done with nerfing jungle xp is make snowballed jungle more egregious by having one team that will get successful ganks and a tam that won't.
stoyo8 (NA)
: being autofilled jungle is miserable
Jungle snowballs harder than anything else, because the moment you fall behind a single level from a death, the enemy jungler can start invading you reliably and either focring you to give him the camps or killing you outright. Since they nerfed jungle xp so much and you struggle to stay relevant via jungle camps just by powerfarming, being denied jungle camps on top of it makes you useless against the enemy jungler, and useless in helping gank lanes since you'll usually be 2 levels behind laners. I've been in the giving and receiving end of first bloods to jungle invades. The jungle who wins the early contest will generally go on to dominate the game while the other jungler is useless unless the laners help him predict invades and help him kill the enemy jungler to get back in the game.
Leonixxx (EUNE)
: Poppy vs morde
> [{quoted}](name=Leonixxx,realm=EUNE,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=0TIhHdjV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-06-25T20:21:59.227+0000) > > Hello, > Im maining poppy a bit, and i notice that if my passive (for poppy) will not drop shield on the ground in mordekaiser ulti. > Simply i throw it, it fly to some direction but not drop it to ground... its just dissapear... > Dont know if it is right.. > Thx for answear. Welcome to Illaoi. Morde ults, tentacles don't come with you so GG. Fiora ults, Morde ults and Fiora ult is gone. Then you have buggy crap like Lux's R hitting you in Morde's realm. Untested disaster.
: Oh, I know that nightmare all too well.
> [{quoted}](name=Chocolate Frost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=m5U3cxGI,comment-id=00330000,timestamp=2019-06-26T01:49:05.229+0000) > > Oh, I know that nightmare all too well. Virtually got lv2 cheesed by Udyr on my blue. He was left with 10% HP. You think any of my two laners at least moved to my jungle to make sure he wasn't around? No. I return to my blue and get repeat ganked by that same Udyr coming up from the river now at lv3 and by then I'm fucked because in this game if the enemy jg gets a single lv lead, it means they can pretty much invade you and take a sizable amount of your camps without you having any chance to fight them and it's just an xp deficit snowball. The laners blame you for losing their lanes and getting ganked by the Udyr while you try to salvage some xp from visiting bot lane and getting bot side jg since neither top or mid seem interested in helping you but sure resent you not being there when Udyr kills them. AFK players with zero map awareness are the scourge of this game. Another game I do fine and 2v1 a voli+ryze as warwick in top river after they gank my top lane. Doesn't matter because the Voli and garen mid have predator and all my laners despite seeing those runes don't expect to get repeatedly ganked when they decide to stay pushed into the enemy turret all game long. And then complain jg diff. I just can't. It's so obvious. Why would you play away from turret when you don't have enemy jungler or laner vision. It's such a simple concept really, or rotating and following your enemy lane. But some people just want to rush turrets and powerfarm while the rest of their team gets snowballed on, and then when their farm ends up in nothing because the enemy team now has 3-4 snowballed people through their roams and your little extra gold won't overcome that, once again it's "jg diff".
: Fuck Jungle
If I get constantly invaded by the enemy jg and my laners don't collapse, I'm ok with just losing the game and not doing anything, because I don't want to play by that point.
: Fuck Jungle
Gank mid lane, get enemy midlaner flash. Mongoloid Mordekaiser goes back to farming as I head for crab and the 20% health caitlyn obviously starts rotating to my crab. Does Morde rotate? No, he pings me because he wants me to abandon crab since his lazy ass won't move to river preemptively to return the favor by securing an easy 2v2 with a half dead, flash-less caitlyn+ xin zhao while he's at full health. I tell him I'm not ganking his lane. He proceeds to yell in map chat where I'm at and to tell people to take river objectives just to spite me. I'm fine with just afk farming and losing the game without getting camped, but the vegetable still blames me for losing them the game. Another game, gank a Jayce, twice. First when he was getting ganked by Jax and Renekton, whose renekton was hald dead since Jayce was beating him in lane. What did the Jayce do when I peeled him? Abandon me to a 2v1 death. Another gank to that Jayce, a 30% health Renekton under tower. I land warwick ult. Does the Jayce step up to capitalized on a stunned target that's almost dying? No, he stays back CS'ing minions while the Renekton stuns me and kills me under tower after my ult ends. That's jg in a nutshell. It's a coinflip of not getting the shitty automaton farm laners or the feeders who only want a gank when they've got their opponent pushed in or have fed them 3 deaths in 5 minutes.
: I'm Disappointed Over the New Battle Boss Skins
Yasuo's skin would be a lot better if the pants weren't such a drab almost black purple and they added more neon outlines to it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WbsJEnqi,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:46:39.950+0000) > > That's an easy fix. Put a 2-3 leave limit that refreshes every 30-45 minutes. > > 5 minutes adds up with the frequency of troll picks in norms. There's absolutely no punishment for trolling the games of other people, and people know it. "Troll picks" sorry but why are you playing normals then? That is THE mode where people go to screw around and try out new things. There is no punishment because they aren't doing anything wrong, despite what you might think
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WbsJEnqi,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-06-25T00:52:37.476+0000) > > "Troll picks" sorry but why are you playing normals then? That is THE mode where people go to screw around and try out new things. There is no punishment because they aren't doing anything wrong, despite what you might think If you want to learn a diff jg champ, that's fine. That's what normals are for, practice. It is you who presume that anything goes in normals, like picking a Zoe jg which stretches the champion's purpose so far beyond anything reasonable that it can't even be called anything but trolling when said Zoe jg has to back by lv 2 without even half of one side cleared. It's one thing to try something like Morde jg. It's another thing to tor%%%% a game for%%%%r teammates just because you selfishly want to joke around. Do that crap in twisted treeline or some other format. You can't get serious practice when the game basically becomes you getting farmed and not being even able to play out a game because a lane is going to snowball straight from champ select. I suppose since I want to screw around, I can go into normals and play a top laner that just roams into jungle and multiple other lanes to tax their minions for amusement before going back to my lane underleveled. You know, since anything goes and I'm just trying out new "strats".
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Crescent Dusk

Level 120 (NA)
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