Avicou (NA)
: Easily. I've played half a dozen games since Aphelios came out, and people seem to take offense when they want to play him in an off-lane he would lose in and someone one their team decides to ban him. I've had 3 people tell my team that they are going to troll because someone on their team banned their losing pick. 1. You're not good at Aphelios. He's been out for all of 3 days. 2. You want to play him mid. He is not a mid-laner. His gameplay is not meant to work in mid lane. If the enemy picks any assassin, you lose. 3. You're *fourth draft*. You would not get him anyway, you bonobo.
> [{quoted}](name=Avicou,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Id5yRZEb,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2019-12-14T06:03:06.756+0000) > > Easily. I've played half a dozen games since Aphelios came out, and people seem to take offense when they want to play him in an off-lane he would lose in and someone one their team decides to ban him. > > I've had 3 people tell my team that they are going to troll because someone on their team banned their losing pick. > > 1. You're not good at Aphelios. He's been out for all of 3 days. > > 2. You want to play him mid. He is not a mid-laner. His gameplay is not meant to work in mid lane. If the enemy picks any assassin, you lose. > > 3. You're *fourth draft*. You would not get him anyway, you bonobo. If an enemy picks a mage, he loses. There's no way an Aphelio outduels a Syndra, Zoe, or Orianna. It just ain't happening. Or even an Ahri since he has no mobility at all and it takes 2 charm rotations pre-ult to kill him. Aphelios is not Kai'sa, Lucian, or Tristana. He's not that mobile and super vulnerable to CC burst. He is pretty much designed to need a support by him since his strength is high octane sustained damage.
Vonyalo (EUW)
: People just play by the rules. Riot allows them to go afk without any punishment. They ragequit. It's that simple. I wouldn't blame them. Not their fault system works that way.
> [{quoted}](name=Vonyalo,realm=EUW,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Id5yRZEb,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-14T00:53:51.536+0000) > > People just play by the rules. Riot allows them to go afk without any punishment. They ragequit. It's that simple. > I wouldn't blame them. Not their fault system works that way. Why wouldn't they AFK. If I'm jungling and my bot lane feeds 5 kills by 7 minutes and another lane is 0/3 the game is practically over and they're wasting my time by vetoing the FF vote. If I play jungler and my laners don't move to contest river objectives or invades on my jungle, or they sit AFK farming right as I ping them 30 secs before I'm going to gank their overextended enemy and they don't follow up, IM LEAVING THE GAME. This is a team game. If you want to mongo farm afk only worried about your lane, that's fine, I'll do the same by logging off and returning the selfish favor.
: A guy who deals half of Darius' R damage with his W at level 3. I saw gameplay- 150 true damage level 3. Now that guy does not get to have high regen above all his shit. He will probably go bruiser/ ad and deal absurd damage to targets with bonus health( bruisers and tanks) while also bashing low health targets with his base abilities- ult for the frontline, w into true damage nuke for the back line, uses cc and Q to finish the rest. Pentakill.
> [{quoted}](name=TeodorusofNoxus,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9J2LFyEU,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-13T09:58:06.425+0000) > > A guy who deals half of Darius' R damage with his W at level 3. I saw gameplay- 150 true damage level 3. Now that guy does not get to have high regen above all his shit. He will probably go bruiser/ ad and deal absurd damage to targets with bonus health( bruisers and tanks) while also bashing low health targets with his base abilities- ult for the frontline, w into true damage nuke for the back line, uses cc and Q to finish the rest. Pentakill. a) Way lower engage range than Darius b) No scaling self heal to 1v2 with c) No cd reset like darius ult d) Darius's grab is a guaranteed 1 sec CC, Sett only CC's when he grabs 2 targets. e) Sett has to hit the sweet spot of a huge wind up attack to ignore armor, Darius gets a free armor pen on all attacks for just investing skill points. Darius can zone with his Q and E and do actual aoe damage while having 2 CC's. Sett has just as terrible mobility as darius and an even worse engage range with virtually no aoe zoning other than a line attack which is far inferior to a circle aoe.
: You Know What I Hate The Most About Jungling?
> [{quoted}](name=Tentacle Advisor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hKR7c7bZ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-14T04:42:15.758+0000) > > Believe it or not, it isn't due to the Jungle changes that made junglers weaker. Oh, no, no, no. > > What I hate the most about Jungling is when you have _**TWO LANES**_ with Jungle priority, early game (let's say Top and Mid Lane). And _**NEITHER ONE OF THEM**_ decides to leave their lane to help contest the Scuttle crab that you and the opposing Jungler are fighting over. _**DESPITE ME**_ (as the Jungler in the scenario) pinging it so much that I lose the ability to ping any further. > > That's what I hate about Jungling. Jungle can't carry anymore unless you're a Lee Sin, Olaf, or Rek'sai. You need to have a champ that can delete people at lv2-3 and has enough burst+CC to compensate for terrible laners, because junglers now fall off by lv5 if they don't pop off from lv2-3 ganks. You're always behind 2 levels of enemy laners, and if you can't 1v1 the enemy jungler they take all your camps and you become worse than a cannon minion without help from laners. You cannot duel laners other than the support or a losing adc anymore. I used to play jungle so I could be independent from garbage inters, but now you're completely dependent on at least 2 lanes doing well because all you're good for as jungler is getting winning lanes snowballed since you can't contest lanes on your own anymore.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: I can just laugh. Using worlds as meta indicators, considering the sustain from conqueror, forcing nunu in a 1v1, nothing makes sense.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=0010000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-14T04:02:18.843+0000) > > I can just laugh. Using worlds as meta indicators, considering the sustain from conqueror, forcing nunu in a 1v1, nothing makes sense. Nunu is forced into 1v1's by any half decent conqueror abusing jungler, and since he lacks mobility it's not like he can escape a lee sin or reksai engaging on him. Worlds/LCS are the very definition of meta indicators. Aatrox and Urgot were deleted from the face of the earth precisely for this reason, as was mage/yasuo bot lanes. But somehow you got a better grasp of the game than the people who make a living out of it.
Magikrap (NA)
: Maw is one of the worst items in the game. Yes Zed does a lot of damage 1v1, that would be a serious problem if this was a 1v1 game wouldn't it?
> [{quoted}](name=Magikrap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uxEOBPnW,comment-id=00030000000200000000,timestamp=2019-12-13T17:19:29.310+0000) > > Maw is one of the worst items in the game. Yes Zed does a lot of damage 1v1, that would be a serious problem if this was a 1v1 game wouldn't it? Except it is when Zed is played correctly, which is that Zed wants to split push and catch people in jungle. He and Akali are the only assassins who can split push successfully because only those two can duel out bruisers and fighters.
Revech (NA)
: Tried Galio out a few times. Wanted to like Galio because he's fun, but for a tank he feels overly squishy. I think if he simply had a significant base mr increase he would be better as a mid lane anti-mage pick.
> [{quoted}](name=Revech,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aEupziKK,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-12T12:20:54.918+0000) > > Tried Galio out a few times. Wanted to like Galio because he's fun, but for a tank he feels overly squishy. I think if he simply had a significant base mr increase he would be better as a mid lane anti-mage pick. Newsflash, all tanks not named Sion, Ornn, Shen, or Poppy are utterly squishy. Even Shen and Poppy pop in one stun. Nunu with conditioning+aftershock+overgrowth, tabis, deadman's plate, spirit visage, gargoyle stoneplate, thornmail and steraks. Still evaporate to ADC+mage DPS in less than 5 seconds in teamfights with all those stacked resistances and through ult shield. Damage is scaled out of this world right now and defenses from items are useless. The best defenses are mobility/untargetable abilities in toolkit to evade damage since damage evasion is way superior to damage absorption.
Yenn (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIIEBNFk,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-13T05:29:48.396+0000) > > She gave up assassination potential for better teamfighting. Multiperson ults make her a complete atomic bomb. She wombo combos really well. > > The issue is most soloQ players want solo carry hyper-burst champs like Rengar/Diana because they're easier to abuse in an uncoordinated environment with deficient supports and poor frontlines. > > But Diana is undoubtedly better in coordinated teamfights and skirmishing. She will contest dragons and barons amazingly well and make the many chokepoints in the jungle lethal. Unless, you know, the enemy team has literally any form of disengage or mobility. Her ult has too much counterplay. You E onto 5 champions, Janna ults you away after your ult pulls her in, and the damage doesn't hit anyone. Or Lee Sin kicks you away. Or they just dash out of the radius before it hits. Or they kill you in the 1 second before it lands and it cancels. And then you die, because you have no survivability and no out. Aside from that, you'll very rarely ever get more than a 2 person ult off. Clumping like that is extremely bad positioning, period, regardless of whether Diana is in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Yenn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sIIEBNFk,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-12-13T05:37:20.778+0000) > > Unless, you know, the enemy team has literally any form of disengage or mobility. Her ult has too much counterplay. > > You E onto 5 champions, Janna ults you away after your ult pulls her in, and the damage doesn't hit anyone. Or Lee Sin kicks you away. Or they just dash out of the radius before it hits. > > And then you die, because you have no survivability and no out. That's virtually any engage. I main aftershock Nunu and if I don't wait out CC's I die within a stun with full deadman's, tabis and spirit visage and my ult gets cancelled, does nothing and goes on CD with no way out because Nunu doesn't even have a real engage other than a long distance snowball and zero disengage. So you play Diana like any assassins and Nunu and have to wait out till CC's are forced out to engage or you die in them. Katarina also has an easily cancelled ult as does Malzahar or Warwick. She's not alone in easily canceled ults. Luckily she can ult and Zhonyas. Maybe once they nerf PD/GA for ADC's and Zhonyas for mages you'll see a change. But then you'd just see Yasuo all over because the next in line to abuse are lifedrain hypermobile abusers like Yasuo/Trynda/Fiora.
: I personally believe ryze's issue stands in his ease of waveclear
Midlane has been seeing a total wavepush creep making champions like Annie and Vladimir obsolete in it. With how easy it is to take river objectives and roam turret dives and take turrets once you've killed outnumbered opponents, easy waveclear is the biggest asset any champ can have. It's why Qiyana mid is a balanced assassin and Zed/Akali are not. Qiyana mid has high kill pressure and her win condition is to kill her opponent out of lane, but without Tiamat her wavepush is atrocious, limiting her roam potential in exchange for her kill threat. Meanwhile Zed gets 2 longswords worth of AD in a passive on top of easy 6 sec cd Q+E clears and goes roaming, as does Akali. Ditto for Syndra, Ahri, Zoe and Orianna and Ryze and Tristana mid, way too easy waveclear and roam potential for how much damage they do. You either get waveclear or kill potential, but you shouldn't have both.
Süjo (NA)
: The Truth about DIana Rework, The Hugest Nerf that i've seen.
She gave up assassination potential for better teamfighting. Multiperson ults make her a complete atomic bomb. She wombo combos really well. The issue is most soloQ players want solo carry hyper-burst champs like Rengar/Diana because they're easier to abuse in an uncoordinated environment with deficient supports and poor frontlines. But Diana is undoubtedly better in coordinated teamfights and skirmishing. She will contest dragons and barons amazingly well and make the many chokepoints in the jungle lethal.
: Sett is surprisingly great, but:
He's way too easy to kite and he scales like crap. Fogged was 12/4 and stomped the Garen in laning phase and yet that Garen that was so far behind got 3 items and was suddenly able to kill him if he didn't ult the Garen into his turret. IMO to me he's just gonna be a worse Darius. Has to punch twice (2 autos), Q reset 2 autos and W, that's an eternity for a combo in a meta where you blow up in less than 3 seconds. Maybe when the meta slows down and he can live long enough to do damage to a frontline without being vaporized by the ADC and mages, then he might be useful as a frontline buster. But even then he'll be a worse Darius. Don't see why I would ever take this champ over Darius, Renekton, or Kled. His W has such a massive wind up that the true damage section will rarely hit the target.
: revert akali shroud back to her pre rework shroud
What she needs is for her Q to lose the slow and move the slow to her E dash in. She has a way too easy and spammable conal ranged slow which makes ganking her or trading with her incredibly painful. She can shroud when ganked, if that fails she can E, if that fails she can ult, if that fails she can ult again, and if that fails she can aoe slow both the ganker and her enemy lane with Q while she just walks back. And then she gets gunblade and gets another slow while getting spell vamp on steroids to give her massive sustain in lane so whatever damage the failed gank did to her she will heal back up shortly. Move the slow from her Q to her E so she has to commit to engage to melee range to chase down a target but can't just both poke and deny engagement on her with an aoe slow.
Antenora (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Harden Stepback,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TslNwQnW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-12T16:03:50.783+0000) > > Diana still sucks, her issue was always that she goes in and and has no way to get out of a fight after she uses her cooldowns. And that's why she isn't an Assassin. She goes in blows load and then dies. Assassin's have ways to escape, she doesn't.
> [{quoted}](name=Antenora,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TslNwQnW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-12T19:57:23.778+0000) > > And that's why she isn't an Assassin. > > She goes in blows load and then dies. > > Assassin's have ways to escape, she doesn't. No they don't lol. Talon needs to use ult to engage and get passive stacks as his W will never hit a target with a brain cell twice, goes in, and unless the enemy is hugging a wall doesn't get to escape because he blows up before he can even walk to a wall after trying to assassinate the ADC. Katarina needs to get a kill to reset her shunpo to get out, and needs a nearby ally that's far enough to actually do so. Fizz needs to use E+Q to engage on the backline and get a kill, so unless he has Zhonyas he goes in, gets a kill, and dies. That's why assassins are not played in LCS. There are exactly 3 assassins with escapes that aren't their engage tools. Zed with R shadow swap, Akali, and Ekko with ult. All the other assassins essentially kamikaze into the backline and if they're lucky they kill the ADC. Most of the time they won't because in teamfights you have a CC jungler, support, and top laner pinning you to death and the ADC mid to late game has GA and PD/bloodthirster with tabis. And mages have Zhonyas, so you just die to focus fire while your burst is trivially mitigated.
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T02:56:28.909+0000) > > Aphelios doesn't have all of those effects at once. At any given moment, he can only hit you with two basic abilities and his ult. Most champs can throw three basic abilities and an ult at you. If he times it right, he can maybe do more, but that only happens infrequently. It takes him a while to burn through the ammo in one of his guns. Most champs have 2 active abilities that matter at any give time. You can plan around them pretty easily. I don't have to worry about {{champion:51}} suddenly having {{champion:22}} 's slow for the next 1-2 mins. I'm not 100% he will be broken, but i feel like it's pretty freaking hard to balance a champion who has access to passive healing, slows, bonus attack range, cleave, and damage. As well as {{champion:51}} 's poke, {{champion:145}} 's multi hit, a possible multi stun, a big cone AOE, and a turret. Hope you know which 2 your up against each time you have to fight him, and have plans for all the combos of those 2 guns abilities.
> [{quoted}](name=only zhule,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pntnb04c,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:13:25.100+0000) > > Most champs have 2 active abilities that matter at any give time. You can plan around them pretty easily. I don't have to worry about {{champion:51}} suddenly having {{champion:22}} 's slow for the next 1-2 mins. > > I'm not 100% he will be broken, but i feel like it's pretty freaking hard to balance a champion who has access to passive healing, slows, bonus attack range, cleave, and damage. As well as {{champion:51}} 's poke, {{champion:145}} 's multi hit, a possible multi stun, a big cone AOE, and a turret. Hope you know which 2 your up against each time you have to fight him, and have plans for all the combos of those 2 guns abilities. Those are all mutually exclusive at the time they're being used, though. It's like claiming Kayn can gank through walls and heal. Sure, but if he uses the shadowwalk to gank through a wall instead of when he needs a heal, it's a choice in utility he has to make. Ditto with using ult as red kayn to dodge CC when you might not need the heal.
LankPants (OCE)
: OK, here's the thing. Irelia, in spite of everything you think is functionally a fighter and not an assassin. Her core build is Triforce>Titanic Hydra>Sterak's Gauge, with her most common rune being Conquer. That build gives a very significant amount of HP and durability. If a champion is building that and is assassinating people it's a huge fucking problem because they're just better than any champion building shit like Duskblade.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BjrwfU0I,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-13T03:00:59.951+0000) > > OK, here's the thing. Irelia, in spite of everything you think is functionally a fighter and not an assassin. Her core build is Triforce>Titanic Hydra>Sterak's Gauge, with her most common rune being Conquer. That build gives a very significant amount of HP and durability. If a champion is building that and is assassinating people it's a huge fucking problem because they're just better than any champion building shit like Duskblade. Yup, don't need more Renektons in this game. Irelia is a backline deleting monster and she pays for that by being like Riven and having a rough laning phase and trouble matching juggernauts.
: conquer + overheal + raka = unkillable
> [{quoted}](name=Chadesiel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HaZXHezV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-13T04:40:21.915+0000) > > This is just my personal opinion on the newest patch 9.24. Not sure if this will ever reach to the balance team but so far from my experience. The current keystone conquer + overheal along with raka is legit cancer. Even when 40% heal reduction it's legit still not balanced. As long as the champ can use conquer well like aatrox, cass, jax, irelia, and so on. > > For those want to climb, try this type of bot lane against non cc heavy team, you will legit feel like god mode. Even if the enemy team is cc heavily based just get a cleanse. > [{quoted}](name=Chadesiel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HaZXHezV,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-13T04:40:21.915+0000) > > This is just my personal opinion on the newest patch 9.24. Not sure if this will ever reach to the balance team but so far from my experience. The current keystone conquer + overheal along with raka is legit cancer. Even when 40% heal reduction it's legit still not balanced. As long as the champ can use conquer well like aatrox, cass, jax, irelia, and so on. > > For those want to climb, try this type of bot lane against non cc heavy team, you will legit feel like god mode. Even if the enemy team is cc heavily based just get a cleanse. Rakan is a wonderful anti dive champion and initiator. I prefer to take him as aftershock though since he can get so hideously tanky later on. If you play with an ADC that can safely farm and disengage like Xayah/Kai'sa/Caitlyn who also have crazy burst and great scaling, you easily take over a game. The biggest pain to Rakan are Draven and Lucian with a Nautilus or Zyra since the frontloaded damage early can be overbearing. But if your jungle babysits you so you can buy survival items and live through laning Rakan takes over teamfights with his ult and knock up pretty much rivaling Pyke in teamfight snowballing. He does less well into teams with a strong frontline and powerful sieging obviously since it's harder to catch multiple ranged with charm as opposed to assassins and fighters, but he's flexible. A good Rakan is completely aggravating to any enemy team.
Keiaga (NA)
: and falls off as hard as pre-rework pantheon after 15 minutes.
> [{quoted}](name=Keiaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hIGWbxQE,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-12-12T03:24:35.679+0000) > > and falls off as hard as pre-rework pantheon after 15 minutes. Yeah, like Olaf falls off hard or Lee Sin. Except they don't because fed characters who can zone off opponents from CS and objectives don't fall off anymore. Please, these champions don't fall off if they keep the opposition starved from farm and zoned off the jungle and dragons for the first half of a game, that's all you need to win a game unless the enemy team completely ints their ass off and throws the lead.
: I mean people say that things like {{champion:58}} is overloaded so...
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hIGWbxQE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-12T02:26:58.295+0000) > > I mean people say that things like {{champion:58}} is overloaded so... Because he is. He's a better assassin than actual assassins. Does assassin level burst with darius level tankiness and sustain and Irelia mobility. On top of a shield breaker in a state where the most powerful abilities are shields.
Bultz (NA)
: Any chance we can have Sett's hair changed?
They pull this crap with other male champs too. Taric gets the womanly hair and the other one gets the Bieber hair.
: When do you guys suppose the Ekko nerfs are?
BlackXIV (EUW)
: The jungle is garbage right now but your statements are incorrect. Nunu is toptier, much better than Lee atm. On level 3, with no items there are no tanks and assassins, only skillsets. If Lee/Ekko lands all spells on you and you don't you die, simple as that. Also it's just false that anything can outsustain Nunu an WW currently.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2019-12-11T12:00:54.531+0000) > > The jungle is garbage right now but your statements are incorrect. Nunu is toptier, much better than Lee atm. > On level 3, with no items there are no tanks and assassins, only skillsets. If Lee/Ekko lands all spells on you and you don't you die, simple as that. > > Also it's just false that anything can outsustain Nunu an WW currently. Oh, please, Nunu didn't see the light of day on worlds or LCS, Lee did. And Lee with conqueror will outheal Nunu's full rotation of cooldowns trivially. Nunu can virtually duel not a single jungler that isn't Ivern. His damage is garbage and his cooldowns are long. All you are is a snowball gank bot and dragon secure bot with your Q.
: I think Ravenous Hunter needs a nerf or rework and here is why
Yasuo exploits the living hell out of this with statikk shiv, every Q it splashes to minions and gives him a metric ton of sustain. Akali with Gunblade is also completely noxious with this. At least Katarina needs to commit to melee range, but these other champs have a really easy time weaving in and out.
: And {{champion:13}} . That being the main reason they have to keep it underwhelming.
> [{quoted}](name=ChaosReyn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EyrPjH6P,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-11T00:59:32.669+0000) > > And {{champion:13}} . That being the main reason they have to keep it underwhelming. Easy, swap the mana for HP and bring up the passive effect to 25-35%
: no, this new jungle punishes jungles that gank really hard after lvl 2 after 1 buff, but it also punishes junglers that decide that they should only afk farm junglers really get punished for a failed lvl 2 gank
> [{quoted}](name=Summoner SpeII,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5IwTyVW6,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-10T21:50:19.590+0000) > > no, this new jungle punishes jungles that gank really hard after lvl 2 after 1 buff, but it also punishes junglers that decide that they should only afk farm > > junglers really get punished for a failed lvl 2 gank Junglers get punished for not playing strong early level duelists anyways. If you don't play Udyr/Warwick/Lee Sin/Xin Zhao/Ekko/Rek'sai you are going to have a bad time.
Atlas923 (NA)
: I agree with literally everything you said as I have also been running into a problem with jungle. Anyone that plays the game a lot realizes that junglers are extremely underleveled throughout laning phase which makes you basically a free kill if the enemy mid and or top laner decides to invade on you. Other lanes in your game that are losing make your job twice as hard due to how underleveled you are even in your own jungle which has led to me getting ran up on any competent laner with a lead. In its current state jungle can no longer compete with laners who have even a slight lead whereas previously invading a jungler required teamwork and competency. I think riot was trying to encourage junglers to focus more on lanes and objectives given the pre-season changes but they definitely missed the mark and ended up crippling the role as a whole.
> [{quoted}](name=Atlas923,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aJBzwWG4,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2019-12-10T20:32:08.631+0000) > > I agree with literally everything you said as I have also been running into a problem with jungle. Anyone that plays the game a lot realizes that junglers are extremely underleveled throughout laning phase which makes you basically a free kill if the enemy mid and or top laner decides to invade on you. Other lanes in your game that are losing make your job twice as hard due to how underleveled you are even in your own jungle which has led to me getting ran up on any competent laner with a lead. In its current state jungle can no longer compete with laners who have even a slight lead whereas previously invading a jungler required teamwork and competency. I think riot was trying to encourage junglers to focus more on lanes and objectives given the pre-season changes but they definitely missed the mark and ended up crippling the role as a whole. Trying to discourage junglers from ganks is futile anyways. What this results in is everyone playing Udyr/Lee Sin/Warwick/Rek'sai/Xin Zhao because then it becomes a game of invading the enemy jungler 24/7 since they can't duel you and the enemy jungler becomes useless while the jungler with the winning 1v1 match up wins. Ganking is the only way for non-duelist junglers to stay relevant in XP and gold. By nerfing ganks for all junglers they just made the already dominant duelist junglers even stronger while the mid-late game junglers completely die out. Until they do something about making invades really not a viable strategy, there is no way for a jungler that's not a strong duelist to be able to stay relevant if you can't spam gank.
: The jungle changes weren't good
> [{quoted}](name=NumberOneBaller,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wfl4kacI,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-10T01:04:10.122+0000) > > All it really did was give a massive advantage to champions that can clear quick and have strong ganks. This fact is becoming more and more evident the more I play. It's almost like you made this new jng for {{champion:64}} while trashing the remaining 80% jungle rooster. Saw a VOD where Lee is clearing more quickly and healthy than my Nunu is despite Lee being a massively higher damage and mobility champ. Can anyone explain to me why Lee Sin is as durable as he is, or assassin junglers and bruisers for that matter? An Ekko by lv3+ is running my tank Nunu out of jungle camps because he can clear healthy and despite my resistance items outsustain me and kill me. As an assassin vs. tank. What the hell.
: I fail to see how a jungler in the bottom lane or bottom jungle is contesting a top jungle camp as to try to take a jungle camp and not know where the jungler is is exccedingly stupid even if you 5 levels ahead they can still find a way to kill you as jungle camps dont do little amounts of damage early and top laners dont have the built in sustain to jungle freely. If the jungler is top jungle you arent the one starting the jungle camp the jungler is and you are waiting for the camp to get him low so you can jump out and scream supprise MOFO. (the same thing the jungler is doing to you on the first example) hence why my first comment said 'if the enemy jungler **showed up** in bot jungle'
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5l2EXlXH,comment-id=00000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-12-10T18:15:55.824+0000) > > I fail to see how a jungler in the bottom lane or bottom jungle is contesting a top jungle camp as to try to take a jungle camp and not know where the jungler is is exccedingly stupid even if you 5 levels ahead they can still find a way to kill you as jungle camps dont do little amounts of damage early and top laners dont have the built in sustain to jungle freely. > If the jungler is top jungle you arent the one starting the jungle camp the jungler is and you are waiting for the camp to get him low so you can jump out and scream supprise MOFO. (the same thing the jungler is doing to you on the first example) hence why my first comment said 'if the enemy jungler **showed up** in bot jungle' lol you clearly haven't played against Renekton or Riven top lane if you think jungle camps by lv6+ are remotely threatening to them. A half decent renekton 2-3 levels you can even kill you at half health and so can Riven or Jax.
sufeng (NA)
: Life of a Jungler
Life of jungler: always behind other lanes 2-3 levels, a crappier second support brought just to smite dragons.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-12-09T21:35:16.837+0000) > > You can ping them as you're soloing dragon and the assholes will prefer farming their wave and letting you almost die soloing the dragon at 6 if you're lucky and don't get contested. > > This game encourages the most antisocial, selfish autistic play patterns of any other type of game. All everyone cares about in this game is getting themselves ahead and to hell with their teammates. > > I have a Renekton come take my Raptors, Trundle is right next to me in midlane. You think the trundle moves? Nope, stays in mid lane despite my repeated pings to come help me. Then calls me r%%%%%ed for dying contesting my raptor camp. I guess I should just give up every camp and be 4-5 levels behind because laners don't want to help junglers at all but are quick to cry jungle diff when you're not stealing dragons and barons for them. I have teammates frequently take camps from me as well. Less so when I'm Ivern for some reason though? When I played shyvana a while back, people stole camps right in front of me. They'd freak out if I cleared a minion wave though (when said player was dead/not in lane nor coming to the lane)
> [{quoted}](name=WoollyWitch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2019-12-09T23:08:08.139+0000) > > I have teammates frequently take camps from me as well. Less so when I'm Ivern for some reason though? When I played shyvana a while back, people stole camps right in front of me. They'd freak out if I cleared a minion wave though (when said player was dead/not in lane nor coming to the lane) In that game with Renekton the Ryze threw a fit because he went smite Ryze, died to Renekton mid, and got upset I took a cannon as he was just walking out of base so he ulted near the Renekton's turret and inted and told me to dare grab another cannon minion. I simply one upped him and logged off that game, he can deal with a fed Renekton and without a jungler on his own. Nothing is done about inting psychopaths anyways, so I'll happily eat the leavebuster if it comes to that and quite frankly don't care if I get banned for leaving games because at least I'll be separated from this game infested with trolls.
: I started playing ivern after the support changes, because I can be a support character without playing support. And one very big thing I've noticed about the jungle is, the laners rarely help with dragon. I even ping them a minute into the future before the dragon spawns, that we should be ready for dragon. Then I ping again at 20 seconds. What do the laners do? They all die in an unnecessary forced team fight and I'm left with two options: take the risk of stealing dragon or letting the enemy have it Its really frustrating.
> [{quoted}](name=WoollyWitch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-09T19:47:14.181+0000) > > I started playing ivern after the support changes, because I can be a support character without playing support. And one very big thing I've noticed about the jungle is, the laners rarely help with dragon. I even ping them a minute into the future before the dragon spawns, that we should be ready for dragon. Then I ping again at 20 seconds. What do the laners do? > > They all die in an unnecessary forced team fight and I'm left with two options: take the risk of stealing dragon or letting the enemy have it > > Its really frustrating. You can ping them as you're soloing dragon and the assholes will prefer farming their wave and letting you almost die soloing the dragon at 6 if you're lucky and don't get contested. This game encourages the most antisocial, selfish autistic play patterns of any other type of game. All everyone cares about in this game is getting themselves ahead and to hell with their teammates. I have a Renekton come take my Raptors, Trundle is right next to me in midlane. You think the trundle moves? Nope, stays in mid lane despite my repeated pings to come help me. Then calls me r%%%%%ed for dying contesting my raptor camp. I guess I should just give up every camp and be 4-5 levels behind because laners don't want to help junglers at all but are quick to cry jungle diff when you're not stealing dragons and barons for them.
Magikrap (NA)
: Zhonyas gives damage armor and the best active in the game... oh and CDR too, and it has an excellent build path... and for some reason it's only 2900 gold, while Steraks is 3200 and Trinity is 3733. AP items are cheaper and scale harder, and usually have tankiness attached to it so dumb. Frozen mallet is 3100 and Rylais is 2600... sure mallet gives more HP but Rylais gives much more damage. So mages scale with absurd damage while getting tanky, but void gives 40% PEN so you will rarely be tanky against a mage. Unless you're orn the most resist you can get from a single MR item is 55? Mages have been playing the game on EZ mode for the past couple years while pretending like Zed and Talon are actually a threat. I'd rather face a 5/0 Talon than a 0/5 Ryze or Vlad or Cass or Heim.
> [{quoted}](name=Magikrap,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uxEOBPnW,comment-id=000300000002,timestamp=2019-12-09T16:14:31.597+0000) > > Zhonyas gives damage armor and the best active in the game... oh and CDR too, and it has an excellent build path... and for some reason it's only 2900 gold, while Steraks is 3200 and Trinity is 3733. AP items are cheaper and scale harder, and usually have tankiness attached to it so dumb. Frozen mallet is 3100 and Rylais is 2600... sure mallet gives more HP but Rylais gives much more damage. > > So mages scale with absurd damage while getting tanky, but void gives 40% PEN so you will rarely be tanky against a mage. Unless you're orn the most resist you can get from a single MR item is 55? Mages have been playing the game on EZ mode for the past couple years while pretending like Zed and Talon are actually a threat. I'd rather face a 5/0 Talon than a 0/5 Ryze or Vlad or Cass or Heim. This is a load of crap. Put a Zed with maw of malmortius and edge of night against any mage and tell me with a straight face that any of them will come on top. Zed is one of the best scaling champions in the game and the only assassin besides Akali who can duel and beat juggernauts and fighters. With BC+LDR a Zed can melt a Poppy with ult faster than any mage could hope to because the ult essentially allows Zed to multiply his already high AD scalings. Only reason why assassins are kept in check is called tanks and CC in teamfights, and with this garbage meta mages and ADC's are melting tanks in a single rotation so don't complain when you see more people playing assassins, bruisers, and fighters. Why be a Nunu when you can be a Renekton that deals 20x the damage, has better, more reliable CC and way better self sustain on top of mobility. Only half decent tanks are Sion, Malphite, and Poppy, and that's because they actually do damage instead of a Nunu or Sejuani who at best in a full rotation deals 30% of someone's HP on long ass cd's while some shitty ass broken Ekko/Yasuo is dueling them to death despite all of their resistances and tanks being meant to counter assassins/fighters but not really right now.
Cõmega (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-12-09T00:50:47.546+0000) > > I just log out of a game where my laners take my camps. If they want to be selfish, they can play the game on their own then. ?XD you're the one being selfish. The game isn't all about you.
> [{quoted}](name=Cõmega,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-12-09T01:15:42.142+0000) > > ?XD you're the one being selfish. > The game isn't all about you. If they take my camps, I become underleveled against the enemy jungler. Which means he can come into my jungle and take all my camps because I can't fight him one level under. I can't take side lanes because that's asking to die to laners 2 levels over me or lose half my health near a tower and force me to back, wasting my jungle clear times. So, yeah, spare me your ignorance. If you take camps from your jungler, you are intentionally making him useless. No laner needs the camps with how much more xp they get from lanes compared to the jungler. The only camps you should be taking are the enemy jungle camps. If you don't care about setting me back in levels by taking my camps, then I don't care to play the game with you. It's that simple. You ruin my experience; I ruin yours.
: tax minions
> [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-09T00:32:45.432+0000) > > tax minions Most laners have far better waveclear than junglers do, so it's not even close. If a Ryze wants to spite you, he totally can take your camps and there's little you can do to tax minions similarly.
Alex Luu (NA)
: Jungling XP and people taking camps
> [{quoted}](name=Alex Luu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zOPPQpsW,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-09T00:18:17.932+0000) > > as a jungler, these new xp changes hurt hard early/mid game when not only does the enemy jungler invade sometimes, but your own allies always take your camps too, I know you should give red and blue buffs to your mid and adc but when they take my other camps > > (mid takes raptors early and mid game) > > (top takes gromp) > > (adc takes krugs before backing) > > what about us junglers? I just log out of a game where my laners take my camps. If they want to be selfish, they can play the game on their own then.
Rewt (NA)
: Class Definitions have been so wack since the class updates to the point where they arent useful.
The funny part is when you are a full spirit visage, merc boots, thornmail, steraks, deadman's plate Nunu and a Sion/Warwick/Ekko is outlasting you because you do no damage whatsoever and at best you last about 2 secs less than the Sion and maybe 2 seconds more than the Ekko when focused. The Nunu ult is also about as worthless as it gets for a tank. By the time you can use it if you wait for the CC to be used up so it doesn't go on full cooldown, you won't make it past half a channel of the ult. The balancing in this game is atrocious when a Garen is way tankier than I am as a Nunu with many times more the damage.
: The item is finally usable on more than one champion and you think it's broken? lol ok.
> [{quoted}](name=Quality Content,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=BQOfMv04,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-12-08T21:32:41.781+0000) > > The item is finally usable on more than one champion and you think it's broken? lol ok. By more than one you just mean Senna, the FotM busted champ as well.
KazKaz (OCE)
: > " I don't know exactly what's contributing to his stellar performance across 4 roles" Conqueror, AP items being too good (and too homogenized), traditional supports not being as prevalent (allowing 2 mages to be run bot lane), his turrets giving him 1v3/2v3 potential, Stopwatch+Zhoyna's being too good of an item. It's a combination of a lot of things, but tl;dr: AP champions+items are a balance nightmare and bot lane is no longer traditional due to damage being more beneficial than utility (why run Braum supp when you can just run Xerath or Brand and oneshot people as a support).
> [{quoted}](name=KazKaz,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uxEOBPnW,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2019-12-08T14:20:04.687+0000) > > Conqueror, AP items being too good (and too homogenized), traditional supports not being as prevalent (allowing 2 mages to be run bot lane), his turrets giving him 1v3/2v3 potential, Stopwatch+Zhoyna's being too good of an item. > > It's a combination of a lot of things, but tl;dr: AP champions+items are a balance nightmare and bot lane is no longer traditional due to damage being more beneficial than utility (why run Braum supp when you can just run Xerath or Brand and oneshot people as a support). AP items are too good? like wtf, sanguine blade, GA, bloodthirster, death's dance, triforce, BC, steraks, IE, stormrazer; are you seriously going to play this game? The only overtuned AP items are void staff and gunblade.
Umbra Z (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y9bU62A9,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2019-12-08T05:41:02.731+0000) > > Welcome to jungle. 3 losing lanes, all blame you for not being able to win lane on their own and then say jg difference because you didn't get dragon when all of them can't get lane prio worth a damn or rotate to river. This^ only junglers should be able to say jg diff, losing laners saying that jg not ganking lost them their lane are the worst players
> [{quoted}](name=Umbra Z,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y9bU62A9,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2019-12-08T15:50:36.115+0000) > > This^ only junglers should be able to say jg diff, losing laners saying that jg not ganking lost them their lane are the worst players These morons legit often expect you to 1v3 for a dragon claim and then get mad when you can't smite steal as if all opponents are braindead enough to let you get within smite range to steal or don't CC you before their jg smites. For these games I don't care if I get leavebuster, I just log off because it's going to be 25+ minutes of getting stomped with the mongo laners blaming you for it.
The E77 (EUW)
: Tanks are pretty decent this preseason, with mountain drakes, conq no longer giving true damage, but the problem is that they apsolutly suck in lane, almost every tank pretty much insta looses to any meta toplaner rn, and then they get fed and win the game before the tank can become relevant
> [{quoted}](name=The E77,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-12-08T08:27:28.411+0000) > > Tanks are pretty decent this preseason, with mountain drakes, conq no longer giving true damage, but the problem is that they apsolutly suck in lane, almost every tank pretty much insta looses to any meta toplaner rn, and then they get fed and win the game before the tank can become relevant They suck in jungle too. I can be a 3/1 nunu and a 0/0/0 Ekko can still bully me out of my camps. I went against a troll jg Vayne, I had 4 kills at that point and one level up on her while she was just 1/1/1 and she killed me at 5 despite me being 6, because Nunu has absolutely no damage whatsoever outside a full channel ult; which most people will stun/CC you out of or kill you through in a teamfight before it even goes off. Unless you're some Maokai/Poppy monstrosity (and your clears will suck at that point, making sure you become underleveled real quick), you can't fight anyone on your own early.
Infernape (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=iiGazeii,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxFF9lJW,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-08T06:59:30.866+0000) > > Now that Worlds is over, I hope the devs have some big plans for the "problematic" champions like Tahm, Aatrox, and Akali. Their mechanics make them very difficult to balance for both pro play and the ladder, and it sucks to see them get dumpstered for us in order to not be pick/ban for the pros. > > Large scale work that readjusts how they function would be much appreciated. I can't see Akali ever being balanced simply because of how ridiculous her kit is. It's hilarious that somehow Riot managed to make Akali more cancerous than she _ever_ was before her VGU when her entire kit was point and click (judging by the fact that her ban rate pre VGU was never as high as it was post VGU).
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VxFF9lJW,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T07:05:42.599+0000) > > I can't see Akali ever being balanced simply because of how ridiculous her kit is. It's hilarious that somehow Riot managed to make Akali more cancerous than she _ever_ was before her VGU when her entire kit was point and click (judging by the fact that her ban rate pre VGU was never as high as it was post VGU). Let's see: - Best scaling assassin alongside Fizz. Way better laning than him. - AoE conal slow to deny any melee ganks without forcing a dash. If that failes, there's E. If that fails, there's shroud. If that faiels, first ult dash. If that fails, second ult dash. - If any of the above failed, you also got gunblade slow. - Ridiculous waveclear on an infinite resource energy champ. It's like they looked at Zed getting 2 free longswords for CS on passive and thought how to make the next energy champ even more braindead CS wavepush. - On top of gunblade being a ridiculous item on its own, it gives this cancer champ free sustain on minion waves. Paired with conqueror, Akali with gunblade heals for quite a bit on top of her overloaded defensive kit. So you have a champ that's as safe if not safer than Zed, that hits as hard if not harder than him, but now that also has way more defensive and mobility tools than Zed does. Call Akali an evolution of the Zed design. And throw the cancerous Ekko into that bunch while we're at it.
: > Problem is all it did was turn a game into a fiesta of win top lane, go bully the enemy jungler out of camps or kill him, if you havent been doing this for the past 3 years you've been playing top lane wrong. if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle you could go steal red blue wolves or raptors krugs and gromp wasnt worth it in my eyes too long
> [{quoted}](name=LordGeovanni,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5l2EXlXH,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-12-08T06:29:45.338+0000) > > if you havent been doing this for the past 3 years you've been playing top lane wrong. if the enemy jungler showed up in bot jungle you could go steal red blue wolves or raptors krugs and gromp wasnt worth it in my eyes too long The difference is previously the jungler could contest you; you could actually die trying to take camps in top lane. Now jungle can't touch top or mid lane at all. All the cries by bot lane about getting camped by jungler only get worse because bot lane is the only lane you can gank without a massive level deficit past lv5. Sure, now bot lane matches my jungler level so they too can invade, but at least I can threaten a 1 for 1. That's just not happening with mid or top lane anymore.
pwc2016 (NA)
: WTF can you even do as ADC if every other lane feeds?
> [{quoted}](name=pwc2016,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=y9bU62A9,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-08T04:08:31.087+0000) > > Title. Just played a game where every lane other that bot and jg was just hard feeding. > > Teemo top was 1/5 by 5 minutes. > > Yasuo mid 1/7 by 5 minutes. I stay under tower with support, but enemy jungler is so far ahead (I.E at 10 minute, Quinn btw) that they just one shot us under tower. Yi gets a kill, but that's it the whole game. End 0/6/0, literally had no opportunity to do anything the entire game. Teemo and Yasuo keep pushing in waves and dying to ganks. > > Is there anything I can do in situations like this? Because I wasn't pushing up or doing anything, just sitting and farming under tower but still died. At that point is it just GG go next, or is there a way to recover if you're not ahead of enemy bot lane (we were even at that point)? Welcome to jungle. 3 losing lanes, all blame you for not being able to win lane on their own and then say jg difference because you didn't get dragon when all of them can't get lane prio worth a damn or rotate to river.
: Tanks may not be good, but damn does having one ever make the game easier
> [{quoted}](name=L Psy Kongroo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=RMW7qx8Y,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-12-07T21:40:19.533+0000) > > Tanks do all the heavy lifting to make the game easier for the rest of the team. They absorb damage so the carries don't have to, they create opportunities by starting fights and making picks, they provide CC for either peel or lockdown, and they generate passive threat by their very presence. Think about how many times you were in-game and thought "Oh, I better not get grabbed by Nautilus or I'm dead" or "I don't want to by anywhere near that Volibear". Having a tank on the team just gives you so many more options than you'd have without one, even if tanks as a class aren't strong right now. And then you get blamed for being the 1/9 Nunu because you're the sole tank getting blown up in 4 seconds every engagement. Tanks are miserable to play in this game. You're supposed to be this disruptive presence but you really don't disrupt any more than a CC mage or Rakan does and you offer none of the threat as you do no damage either. Might as well play a hypermobile bruiser/fighter and get better results.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUKPZ7GV,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-12-08T02:18:55.333+0000) > > It's xp leads that are the biggest problem. It’s both. Xp just made it worse. The tower plates are the reason it was so bad in s9 and nothing was done about it.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUKPZ7GV,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2019-12-08T03:47:58.529+0000) > > It’s both. Xp just made it worse. > The tower plates are the reason it was so bad in s9 and nothing was done about it. Yeah, but that too was just a symptom, because the reason people would be able to get gold plates is that by just a single kill in lane they are forever at a level lead most of the time, and a level lead completely dwarfs item advantages; you do virtually no damage to people one level over you unless it's a really unfavorable champ match up like a Vayne on a Nunu or Zed on Nami. The xp leads have to absolutely be addressed. One death shouldn't cost you a lane, but it really does unless you're a hyperscale champ like Kayle/Kassadin/Ryze. This game is in desperate need of catch up xp and gold. Otherwise every game will be the same awful stomp it always devolves into.
Kyunsei (EUW)
: Daily reminder that the best way to receive exp as a jungler is to farm catch-up exp from kills.
It's also the only way to get xp when you can't duel the enemy jungler and are getting invaded left and right with no help from your laners. The current way the jungle functions is that you're a secondary support, except you depend on 3 lanes to thrive instead of your adc and jungler. It's absolutely dreadful because if none of your lanes are prio, you are pretty much done as a jungler. You can no longer carry unless you play Lee Sin/Rek'sai and get fed early by lv3-5 when solo lanes haven't massively outpaced you in exp. After that, it's a game of surviving constant invades not only from the enemy jungler, but from solo lanes who have 2+ levels on you and know perfectly well they can bully you out of camps. This new meta also incentivizes strong early burst ganker junglers even more because your damage falls off so badly against targets who outlevel you by so much, so you have to snowball early or it's game over. All junglers are now super squishy because of these level and item differences. I can be a Nunu with 4/1/1 and one level up on a troll Vayne jg and by lv5 she can start invading and killing me one level under me. There is absolutely no reason to play tank junglers or scaling junglers. Have full spirit visage, mercs, gargoyle stoneplate, and an Ekko jg will still shave off my health in a matter of seconds; I can count the amount of times I can channel an ult before dying on one hand. You just evaporate to everything. So why play a Nunu when you can be Fizz/Ekko, do 10x the damage, and the Nunu only lives maybe 2 secs longer under focus fire but has zero kill pressure whatsoever. A full Nunu rotation does little more than 30% of a target's total health at full items, it's pathetic.
: I stand by it. It’s the fucking tower plates. A kill isn’t just 300 gold and minions anymore. It’s 300 gold + 320 gold in turret plates and minions. Who would have thought that doubling kill gold would be a problem.
> [{quoted}](name=The thigh guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PUKPZ7GV,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-12-08T02:04:31.086+0000) > > I stand by it. It’s the fucking tower plates. > A kill isn’t just 300 gold and minions anymore. > > It’s 300 gold + 320 gold in turret plates and minions. Who would have thought that doubling kill gold would be a problem. It's xp leads that are the biggest problem.
: No, that doesn't happen to me. I get teammates who feed all the time, regardless of win streaks. Sometimes you just have to carry them. I'd consider it very lucky if it only happened after I went on 5-6 game win streaks, it would make climbing alot easier.
> [{quoted}](name=KVbqbFsC8e,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Pe8X24xY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-12-07T02:28:21.529+0000) > > No, that doesn't happen to me. I get teammates who feed all the time, regardless of win streaks. Sometimes you just have to carry them. I'd consider it very lucky if it only happened after I went on 5-6 game win streaks, it would make climbing alot easier. Good thing for you that you can carry. As jg, you get shit laners, there ain't no carrying them unless you're a fed Yi/Jax.
: > [{quoted}](name=3TWarrior,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nj1Ekb1E,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-07T21:35:43.831+0000) > > people tend to jump the gun as well, but come on, please don't advocate behavior like this Wasnt my intention to advocate shit but I am just voicing my frustrations with the system, flaming isnt condonable either but there has to be some improvement to intentional feeders
> [{quoted}](name=AlterMordred,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Nj1Ekb1E,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T21:45:14.084+0000) > > Wasnt my intention to advocate shit but I am just voicing my frustrations with the system, flaming isnt condonable either but there has to be some improvement to intentional feeders Not just intentional feeders. People who die 7 times in 10 minutes should be forced to play 3 AI games before being allowed to queue up with people. I assure you 100% people will actually put some effort into not inting their ass off if there are actual punishments for it. Then there's the also terrible experience of being a jungler with mongoloid afk farm laners who do not rotate or contest with you anything at all, so there has to be some check as to why a jg is dying when his r%%%%%ed team is doing nothing to secure dragons or crabs or herald let alone clear vision.
BlackXIV (EUW)
: Agreed, honest to god I don't get why in a 5v5 game the 2 roles that already got the most exp needed a double buff with the other three roles getting nerfed at the same time. Sure as hell if they needed more impact (and that's arguable) giving them a bigger power gap on the rest is not working out, at the very least not in terms of game enjoyment for the majority of players.
> [{quoted}](name=BlackXIV,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5l2EXlXH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-12-07T06:13:44.106+0000) > > Agreed, honest to god I don't get why in a 5v5 game the 2 roles that already got the most exp needed a double buff with the other three roles getting nerfed at the same time. > > Sure as hell if they needed more impact (and that's arguable) giving them a bigger power gap on the rest is not working out, at the very least not in terms of game enjoyment for the majority of players. Problem is all it did was turn a game into a fiesta of win top lane, go bully the enemy jungler out of camps or kill him, have your jungler who's ahead take dragons because they still matter way more than herald. It's virtually a game of bully and get fed off the losing jungle. Virtually anyone knows they can go invade the jungle and stand a good chance of killing the jungler or massively setting him behind in levels since jungle is now the lane furthest behind all other lanes in both items and levels.
: > [{quoted}](name=XJ99999999999999,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9cwY8P5n,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-12-07T18:52:04.346+0000) > > yeah its a joke tbh. idk why laners get all this love out of no where but jungle gets trashed on Gank meta last season made everyone unhappy, so they over-reacted. Rightfully, gank meta needed to be stopped, but this is just another toxic meta.
> [{quoted}](name=pIlIThomas,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9cwY8P5n,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-12-07T20:01:26.356+0000) > > Gank meta last season made everyone unhappy, so they over-reacted. Rightfully, gank meta needed to be stopped, but this is just another toxic meta. There is never not going to be a gank meta. Not as long as invades are a viable strategy because it means if you can't 1v1 the enemy jungler due to their superior champ, they take all your camps and your only source of xp is ganks. The only way you will see junglers power farming again and less in lanes is the day they remove river objectives and make invades very costly or impossible.
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Crescent Dusk

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