HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zIKEB3r,comment-id=000c00000000,timestamp=2019-09-21T21:44:38.363+0000) > > Yeah, that's why the top half of the ranked ladder are ADC mains. Get the fuck out of here, Katarina hasn't even seen LCS play in years. > > Caitlyn+ yummi or xayah+rakan is some of the most disgusting cancer that exists in this game. Too bad the same adc morons who want to solo sidelane because they want the devs to balance ADC's as if they weren't a 2 man lane get mad when an assassin does what it's supposed to do and you don't have a sona/yuumi/alistair/rakan/ nautilus CC'ing them to death in teamfights. > > Not to mention the kind of adc who refuses to get GA, PD and tabis in a game with an assassin in it. The same kind of people who refuse to buy mercurial scimitar on a game with morde/malzahar/warwick/vi in it or maw of malmortius against an AP heavy team. I'm not sure why a literal unranked player even mentions LCS picks as if they were relevant to the 99% of us players that AREN'T in the LCS. When i can play ADC as good as doublelift and every game i'm premade with Aphromo or whatever he's called then i'd maybe have a completely different picture of what champs are strong and what arent. No one picks Yasuo in the LCS yet people have been crying about him for years, why? Cause he's frustrating to play against when strong. Assassins are perfect pub stompers and last time i checked no one made you the ultimate authority on what people should and shouldn't hate in the game and what match ups they find hard. You're here crying about ADCs i'm here crying about Akali, Zed and Katarina, we can point fingers all day at each other doesn't make us right and pulling up some stats doesn't confirm anything, Riven mains are literally always challengers, yet i never found her annoying to deal with since i don't lane against her and with a good team we can shut her down in team fights, yet people rage about her all the time. Also people on the boards need to get their story straight, when i made a post talking about how not enough ADCs get {{item:3046}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3139}} i got downvoted cause "damage is so high it doesn't matter that you have 3 defensive items" and when the ADCs are OP circlejerk starts then the story flips on its head, WE CAN"T EVEN KILL THEM CAUSE THEY HAVE GA AND MERC ITS SO OP!! Jeez
> [{quoted}](name=HàrrowR,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zIKEB3r,comment-id=000c000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-21T23:06:14.295+0000) > > I'm not sure why a literal unranked player even mentions LCS picks as if they were relevant to the 99% of us players that AREN'T in the LCS. When i can play ADC as good as doublelift and every game i'm premade with Aphromo or whatever he's called then i'd maybe have a completely different picture of what champs are strong and what arent. > > No one picks Yasuo in the LCS yet people have been crying about him for years, why? Cause he's frustrating to play against when strong. Assassins are perfect pub stompers and last time i checked no one made you the ultimate authority on what people should and shouldn't hate in the game and what match ups they find hard. > > You're here crying about ADCs i'm here crying about Akali, Zed and Katarina, we can point fingers all day at each other doesn't make us right and pulling up some stats doesn't confirm anything, Riven mains are literally always challengers, yet i never found her annoying to deal with since i don't lane against her and with a good team we can shut her down in team fights, yet people rage about her all the time. > > Also people on the boards need to get their story straight, when i made a post talking about how not enough ADCs get {{item:3046}} {{item:3026}} {{item:3139}} i got downvoted cause "damage is so high it doesn't matter that you have 3 defensive items" and when the ADCs are OP circlejerk starts then the story flips on its head, WE CAN"T EVEN KILL THEM CAUSE THEY HAVE GA AND MERC ITS SO OP!! Jeez I cry about the role that demonstrably shows in the statistics as being the strongest in soloQ to climb with, not just the one that annoys people. When ADC's cry about assassins or any other champs, it's rich, because regardless of format the statistics show that the game is heavily weighed in outcome for the winning bot lane far more than any other lane. And since I don't have schizophrenia, I'm not going to sit here and pretend like you can attribute to me someone else's opinions. Because, yes, GA+tabi+PD on an adc with a support who's not a vegetable is one of the most aggravating experiences. People who say you should build full damage with several divers in the game on a class that has the best scaling in the game (thus suffering the least damage deficit by late game) is frankly speaking a tunnel-visioned dumbass.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zIKEB3r,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-09-21T04:46:29.110+0000) > > All I saw from hat video is how busted you want the ADC to be while nobody else does damage. Fuck ADC's, I'm sick of their supremacy over this game. > > Feels like total ass when the outcome of a game is so heavily balanced toward a single lane. Please feel free to play adc against all the bullshit in the game like {{champion:84}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:246}} while your support is a mage that couldnt give 2 shits about you and then see the ''supremacy'' of the adcs. Any competent midlaner can carry twice as hard by ganking, dealing more damage than the actual adc while also being completely self-sustained . If I had to choose over a 3/0 kata in my team or a 3/0 varus i wouldnt have to think for a second
> [{quoted}](name=HàrrowR,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zIKEB3r,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-09-21T18:52:37.978+0000) > > Please feel free to play adc against all the bullshit in the game like {{champion:84}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:238}} {{champion:55}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:38}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:246}} while your support is a mage that couldnt give 2 shits about you and then see the ''supremacy'' of the adcs. Any competent midlaner can carry twice as hard by ganking, dealing more damage than the actual adc while also being completely self-sustained . > > If I had to choose over a 3/0 kata in my team or a 3/0 varus i wouldnt have to think for a second Yeah, that's why the top half of the ranked ladder are ADC mains. Get the fuck out of here, Katarina hasn't even seen LCS play in years. Caitlyn+ yummi or xayah+rakan is some of the most disgusting cancer that exists in this game. Too bad the same adc morons who want to solo sidelane because they want the devs to balance ADC's as if they weren't a 2 man lane get mad when an assassin does what it's supposed to do and you don't have a sona/yuumi/alistair/rakan/ nautilus CC'ing them to death in teamfights. Not to mention the kind of adc who refuses to get GA, PD and tabis in a game with an assassin in it. The same kind of people who refuse to buy mercurial scimitar on a game with morde/malzahar/warwick/vi in it or maw of malmortius against an AP heavy team.
: THIS is what a team fight should look like....
> [{quoted}](name=BurtontEjBe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=1zIKEB3r,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-20T19:50:23.695+0000) > > and not a 2 second destruction with aoe CC and damage and insane mobility. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IFH9olS6Fo > [](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IFH9olS6Fo) All I saw from hat video is how busted you want the ADC to be while nobody else does damage. Fuck ADC's, I'm sick of their supremacy over this game. Feels like total ass when the outcome of a game is so heavily balanced toward a single lane.
: Can people stop exaggerating situations just to prove their point? Games like this are lost but completely miss the actual problem: Coinflip players who give up if they lose their coinflip. You went hyperaggressive at level 2 and lost the cheese which put you behind and you might even have lost yourself the lane. There's 2 other lanes and a jungler who didn't fuck themselves, make yourself carryable instead of bitching "boo hoo, I can't carry this game, game is lost". **THAT'S** the FF15 people, not the ones in this constant "if my x feeds 10 kills in 12 minutes" scenario.
> [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=0008000000020000,timestamp=2019-09-19T07:34:28.608+0000) > > Can people stop exaggerating situations just to prove their point? > > Games like this are lost but completely miss the actual problem: Coinflip players who give up if they lose their coinflip. You went hyperaggressive at level 2 and lost the cheese which put you behind and you might even have lost yourself the lane. There's 2 other lanes and a jungler who didn't fuck themselves, make yourself carryable instead of bitching "boo hoo, I can't carry this game, game is lost". > > **THAT'S** the FF15 people, not the ones in this constant "if my x feeds 10 kills in 12 minutes" scenario. Except, not really. I never would FF over a single losing lane, and doubt most others would. What people resent is when someone actually makes themselves absolutely unable to be carried and then have the nerve to veto the FF vote and prolong a game with a foregone conclusion. It's a waste of time and people are right to be upset.
: Fucking preach. The amount of people that go "ff15, go next" because their lane had a bad start is insane. I don't know what happened, but these coinflip players who have the "strategy" of "I'll get a lead in the first few minutes or die trying resulting in me giving up on the game" has increased by a ton.
> [{quoted}](name=Shuriman God,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kBmEhoB6,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2019-09-19T00:07:23.252+0000) > > Fucking preach. > > The amount of people that go "ff15, go next" because their lane had a bad start is insane. I don't know what happened, but these coinflip players who have the "strategy" of "I'll get a lead in the first few minutes or die trying resulting in me giving up on the game" has increased by a ton. If I as a jg see my bot lane has given the enemy ADC 7 kills by 9 minutes, and my mid lane is afk farming overextending and getting ganked 24/7 while I try to keep top and bot lane afloat, I know the game is over by 15 unless there's a kayle/jax/yi in my comp and they haven't fed their asses off. People ff for a reason. Nobody likes the uphill climb against a fed caitlyn+yuumi, a fed Jax, let alone a fed Irelia or mordekaiser/renekton.
Bugog (NA)
: There's a significant difference between "this champion has an advantageous matchup against this champion in lane" and "better build your team comp around beating this single champion." You know that though and are using disingenuous arguments to show faux game knowledge.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEt7uTsP,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T23:56:48.912+0000) > > There's a significant difference between "this champion has an advantageous matchup against this champion in lane" and "better build your team comp around beating this single champion." You know that though and are using disingenuous arguments to show faux game knowledge. Gotta love being called disingenuous right as you call a Xerath crushing an Annie lane out of irrelevance and snowballing to hell or a Darius setting a Garen 150 cs behind while shoved under turret and taking towers as "advantageous" match up. There's absolutely nothing to be done to prevent the snowball of any of these champs outside jungler camps, and this applies all the same to Jax. If anyone's being an obstuse ass, it's you people pretending like Jax starts the game with triforce levels of laning capacity when he gets abused early by most champs like Renekton, Darius, or Mordekaiser.
Bugog (NA)
: You stated again that the only way to beat him is champion select. Literally "pick these champions, don't pick these champions". On top of that Sejuani and Alistar have bad win rates because they pay the pro tax, so you should remove them from your argument.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEt7uTsP,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-18T08:16:09.150+0000) > > You stated again that the only way to beat him is champion select. > > Literally "pick these champions, don't pick these champions". > > On top of that Sejuani and Alistar have bad win rates because they pay the pro tax, so you should remove them from your argument. This applies to every champion. You never win against a Xerath as Annie; so, yeah, only way to beat him is at champion select by not picking Annie into a Xerath comp. You never win as Garen or Maokai or Poppy as against a Darius top. So, yeah, champ select. Comp matters, get the fuck over it.
Bugog (NA)
: So the opposing team has to pick a comp that has the potential to counter jax on the chance someone picks him? A champions balance point shouldn't be pick/ban phase. If it is something has gone horribly wrong.
> [{quoted}](name=Bugog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEt7uTsP,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-09-17T07:10:59.109+0000) > > So the opposing team has to pick a comp that has the potential to counter jax on the chance someone picks him? > > A champions balance point shouldn't be pick/ban phase. If it is something has gone horribly wrong. No, the fucking team has to pick a comp that has a frontline, and it just so happens that there are plenty of viable frontline tank champs like nunu/sejuani/skarner/blitzcrank/alistair/leona. If you want to run a quinn/vayne/neeko top and a syndra/katarina mid and a lee sin/evelynn/khazix/rengar jg and a soraka/sona supp with your adc, then that's on YOU. Don't go complaining when the Fiora/Jax/Yasuo/Irelia/Riven pick you to pieces, because that's what these divers are supposed to do, thrive on weak frontlines.
: I don't get what with the ego problems of some players. It's just a game.
> [{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=IoMZ1OLh,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-16T12:40:15.373+0000) > > Just one failed skirmish and the jungler hardcore flames the midlaner that he says explicitly to stop it. Then said jungler shoves his lane and then recalls literally in front of him after he gets ganked. Every one of his teammates AND the enemy sees it and calls out the jungler for it and he starts screaming all-chat to plead not guilty. Midlaner gets spam pinged for a whole 3 mins and he finally gives up. > > And then the jungler says "I did nothing wrong please report mid.". Like what did you expect? Some people just outright breaks a player for the sake of their own ego. When I got a top laner dying 4 times in 7 minutes to the enemy nasus, a mid laner afk farming while my crabs bot side get contested by enemy jungler and midlaner, and my bot lane doesn't follow the enemy bot lane roams, you bet your ass I will flame and quit the game. This isn't just a game. It's a PvP game. A competitive game. Where the objective is to work as a team to win. If you only care for your own experience and have fun trolling despite being told to not keep fighting an opponent who has 1-2 kills up on you, to look at map for incoming ganks or help contest crabs, and to stop afk farming while the enemy is having impact on other objectives and lanes, then don't be surprised when in return people return the favor and choose to have a better experience by ruining yours as well through flaming and quitting the game. Because it is certain that it is people like you who int their ass off in lane and leave the jg dry on ganks or to be invaded who then veto the ff vote when the team score is 12 vs. 1 kills on the enemy's favor and you hold other people hostage to playing a doomed game in which they stand no chance of winning just because a single veto can foil a surrender vote, wasting at minimum 20 minutes of someone's life in a terrible match that's going nowhere. People have at best 2-3 hours of playtime a night. You bet your ass I'm going to be toxic if my time is forcibly wasted by people who don't care to try their best. I don't care if you can't 1v1 your opponent or fall behind in CS because of it. I do care if you keep dying more than once and then the other lanes have to cope with your snowballed mistakes and you keep afk farming instead of helping your team make gains elsewhere so they can at least carry you instead of having to face a 17 kills nasus. Some people make it so they are impossible to carry, and then they want to prolong the match. This is not a game that's made for comebacks against heavy snowballs. This is not Heroes of The Storm where power gaps stay minimized throughout the game.
: Garen main, insights into rework.
Because Garen can't use conqueror either, he MUST build BC or he deals absolutely garbagae damage against anyone with armor. The 25% armor debuff on his spin isn't anywhere close to enough and it's a horribly inferior version to what Darius just gains passively. Triforce seems good only when the enemy team is made up of squishies with no tanks in it. I only see him getting weaker with this rework because his damage is only gaining marginal buffs in niche scenarios whereas the part he struggles most in top lane, his survivability and lack of in combat recovery, is getting nerfs to accommodate these niche buffs. Until Garen can get in-combat recovery for teamfighting and surviving early top lane cheese conqueror abusers, and his E is made to be less garbage taking forever to not be a dps loss early compare to autoattacks thanks to the damage penalty when fighting around minions (yet renekton and darius don't pay this ridiculous price on their Q's, and neither does aatrox), Garen will be screwed in top lane and still prefer mid lane match ups. His passive is beyond worthless until way too late into the game. **Best way to rework Garen is to move the silence to his ult and give it a 475 range, buff his Q with a short leap like ekko that applies armor shred, and make it so that landing a certain amount of spin ticks on his opponents heals him for a % of his HP.** **Change W so that activating it will also trigger his passive in combat for the next 10 seconds.** **That way he loses a frequency of silence in exchange for better sustainability and his ult is improved by offering a strong silencing utility at key moments instead of just being a garbage version of darius/pyke/urgot ults.**
: Pyke was fine, and then...
The ult reset on kill needs to go. The fact it serves as a single target execute regardless of resistances and gives your teammates full gold is more than enough. His grey healing also needs to be nerfed, or his stealth/dash need longer cd's. He's able to harass way too often with impunity despite the fact that landing a single hook>dash often ends in a kill for his team.
: spear of shojin solo makes jax actually stupid to face in many teamfight scenarios
> [{quoted}](name=Tychusfindlay918,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cEt7uTsP,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-16T15:22:16.620+0000) > > He's basically untouchable by anyone who isn't a spellcaster, and cc-lock him is hard in a meta where no one plays tanks (which he would undoubtedly MURDER in lane anyways if someone did). > > He can effectively out-tank actual tanks by a factor of 2-3 against ADCs, even hyperscale-type ADCs, and his ult with a steraks at the very least bars any mage outside of a late game veigar from blowing him up. What? Jungler tanks are more than viable (Skarner, Nunu, Warwick, Volibear, Sejuani are all doing well). That most soloQ prefers to yolo with assassin jg's is another matter. Alistair, Rakan, Thresh, Leona, and Blitzcrank are also all perfectly viable tank supports. Hell, pantheon jg and nocturne also work well enough since they also CC the jax long enough for him to blow up in teamfights. Jax takes forever to come online as a champion unless you feed him early. He's no different than Yi. If you got mongoloid laners who insist on dying to him or overextending and dying to ganks, of course jax and yi will be insufferable. Until then, he's weak and blows up in team fights as he rushes triforce and spear before he even gets a single resistance item, which leaves him like wet toilet paper for the first 20 minutes of a game. I can't understand people who complain about champs when the obvious problem is this game lets your team sink your match at champ select thanks to terrible comps. Enemy team locks a Zed or Katarina in? Your idiot bot lane picked a Sona/enchantress support who will be instantly gibbed the moment the midlane assassin roams bot and starts the assassin snowball when all that was needed was to pick a tank supp like alistair or blitz to completely cuck the assassin. Or your idiot jungler picks a yi/evelynn/khazix into the same Zed/Talon. Or your top lane picks a malphite/poppy into a damn Fiora or Darius, let alone the special kind of moron who picks a ranged top laner into jax aiming to cheese him early, but all that does is deny your team a frontline, so when the game reaches mid to late and your team consists of all squishy ranged champs and assassins and your backline gets dove by the enemy team with a vi/skarner/sejuani and a rakan plus jax, your team acts like they didn't doom the game from champ select. Jax is completely reliant on reaching 3-4 items (and is only survivable after he gets triforce+spear+GA and tabis/mercs) or on the enemy team having no CC whatsoever and a weak frontline. SoloQ happens to constantly feed him with those win conditions either through comp or by throwing early leads to stall the game out for him to come online.
Zed genius (EUNE)
: He only takes skill when you play vs competent opponents. If they have no idea what your champion does (Iron to Gold 1/2) he is braindead. From there and upwards where players kinda have an idea what to do and they don't just unironically int, you usually are left feeling like no matter what you do you have no impact. When I was in like gold/silver i used to almost win every game. As I started climbing, I got definitely better on him, yet lost way more games than I used to. Compared to a lot of champions, zed has too much obvious counterplay, let that be the skill button {{item:2419}} or simply throwing abilities where he lands after ult or using mobility. If you understand how zed works by playing a bit of him, and you have basic mechanic knowledge, you will find it hilariously easy to beat him. Yeah when he is fed he might just kill you anyway, but under real circumstances he should never get fed. That's what takes skill about the champion, not his mechanics, similar to how Garen is like one of the hardest champions in high elo Edit: > Sudden Impact and Electrocute and Duskblade will make sure your enemy dies Sudden impact is not the optimal rune for zed, you need sustain in lane phase so you kinda have to run the healing thing.
> [{quoted}](name=Zed genius,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2mBfE31J,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2019-09-15T08:38:41.399+0000) > > He only takes skill when you play vs competent opponents. If they have no idea what your champion does (Iron to Gold 1/2) he is braindead. From there and upwards where players kinda have an idea what to do and they don't just unironically int, you usually are left feeling like no matter what you do you have no impact. > > When I was in like gold/silver i used to almost win every game. As I started climbing, I got definitely better on him, yet lost way more games than I used to. Compared to a lot of champions, zed has too much obvious counterplay, let that be the skill button {{item:2419}} or simply throwing abilities where he lands after ult or using mobility. > If you understand how zed works by playing a bit of him, and you have basic mechanic knowledge, you will find it hilariously easy to beat him. > Yeah when he is fed he might just kill you anyway, but under real circumstances he should never get fed. > > That's what takes skill about the champion, not his mechanics, similar to how Garen is like one of the hardest champions in high elo > > > Edit: > > Sudden impact is not the optimal rune for zed, you need sustain in lane phase so you kinda have to run the healing thing. Stopwatch is not even close to counterplay. With 2 items Zed's CDR is already such that Q cd is back by the time stasis wears off and you get 3 guaranteed Q's on a stationary target. He's actually one of the least countered assassins by stop watch because his damage scaling is such that with his passive he only needs his WEQ combo to assassinate mages/supps/adc's, unlike most other assassins who need the ult for damage to seal a kill.
datfatguy (OCE)
: I just feel like Zed doesn't take a lot of skill to play anymore
The problem with Zed is that he's the best scaling assassin with an ult that gives him a dodge/immunity window and a gap closer, multiplies his damage by giving him an extra shadow Q and on top repeating the damage done while mark was applied (exponential scaling), and he can do most of his damage from 650+ range while his shadow combo is as close to instant as it gets and his shadow E slows to guarantee the Q's landing. You then also have a champion with a passive that gives them the equivalent of 2 longswords for CS, so his wavepush and CS under and away from tower are good. And to top it off, his shadow swap and the fact his shurikens are ranged allows him to easily dive turrets at little risk. This means that you can stomp him in lane, and all he has to do is roam bot, press R on the enemy support and collect a kill or two every time his R is up from bot lane or the jungle. His ranged shadow E should only slow and not do any damage, and his R should be rebalanced so that it only copies Q damage so he can't just E+auto+ignite>electrocute and get a fat ult pop regardless.
: I have a hard time to bring myself to play this game anymore due to the balance team
I'm pretty much done with having all of the games dictated by the winning bot lane. Game's really boring when it's a coinflip of who gets the 0/8 lane and getting snowballs off the weakest link while that same asshole can veto ff votes.
Lan Fan (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=SEKAI,realm=OCE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ar4Jgh0u,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-09-14T12:12:22.455+0000) > > No, you won't. Not even pros would want to do that, why would you? > > You only said that probably because you're their main, not their opponents; or you just think you do, when you don't. Sure, that's why I permaban Akali and Irelia instead of Fiora or Mordekaiser. Oh, wait...
> [{quoted}](name=Lan Fan,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ar4Jgh0u,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-14T16:57:49.140+0000) > > Sure, that's why I permaban Akali and Irelia instead of Fiora or Mordekaiser. Oh, wait... If only there were items like bramble vest and tabis making fiora irrelevant or mercurial scimitar wrecking mordekaiser as he melts in teamfights if he can't pull someone to the realm.
: Sometimes, a champion's imbalance is their kit instead of their numbers.
> [{quoted}](name=Etherwolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ar4Jgh0u,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-13T23:50:25.988+0000) > > I started thinking about Akali and how she's changed since her rework. Her numbers were lowered. Her Shroud was nerfed, both in it's under tower utility as well as the time it takes her to return to stealth. Her Kunai no longer heal. Her R doesn't even stun anymore. Even still, despite further and further weakening her she'll probably be weakened even more in the future. With all these tweaks to her kit being necessary for any sort of balance, wouldn't the best option be to just...change her kit? It's the same as with Yasuo, and if I recall we were promised a change to his kit some time ago. > > All things considered regarding the champions most considered imbalanced, would changing their kit be a better course than changing their numbers/other minor factors of their gameplay? > > On a personal note regarding the removal of Akali's stun...is there even a point in her having a two-cast ultimate anymore? The initial reason was for the micro-stun, but without that it's just a physical damage dash? Y'know, now that I think about it it'd be cool if it did more damage based on how much more health they have like how Elise's initial Q does increased damage based if the target has more health, and just like Akali's second R Elise's transformed Q does more damage based on missing health. It's extra mobility, allows her to engage to set up her kill with the second part. The fact it had a microstun was superfluous.
: At level 1, she can use her Q what...twice in a row before she's out of energy? Which reminds me, they also removed the increased damage at the outermost radius of her Q.
> [{quoted}](name=Etherwolf,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=Ar4Jgh0u,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-09-14T10:57:16.714+0000) > > At level 1, she can use her Q what...twice in a row before she's out of energy? Which reminds me, they also removed the increased damage at the outermost radius of her Q. The damage is not from the Q, it's the passive, and it doesn't matter if she runs out of energy following up 2 Q's considering it allows her to live through a gank. It's like saying Zed shadow is not that great because it has a 22 sec cd. No shit, shroud has a similarly long cd but the kit of the champs still makes them incredibly aggravating to gank due to the safety it afford them.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=000e000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T03:13:25.907+0000) > > Just don't do it. You should be hugging your support in a kaisa lane. It's obvious counterplay. Kaisa is really abusable in her early game. so the counterplay to a late game hypercarry is hugging ur support so that they cant abuse their busted early game? Nice.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeanne fan club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=000e0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T14:57:32.358+0000) > > so the counterplay to a late game hypercarry is hugging ur support so that they cant abuse their busted early game? Nice. Somewhere in that cute retort your gears did not rotate hard enough to consider that her early game is not busted when you're next to your support or minions...
: Sometimes, a champion's imbalance is their kit instead of their numbers.
She needs to lose the slow on Q (put it on her E charge so she can charge back in and chase down targets, but her kiting potential will still be nerfed by removing the slow from Q). Everything else was fine. The problem is that spammable slow on Q makes her a total melee bully and able to completely negate most gank attempts or pressure on her by enemy melee. Why? You not only have the shroud cooldown to contend with, but the E gives her a humongous dash back, her main item (gunblade) gives her another strong slow, and somehow if you manage to get through all that she has a 6 sec cd slow. Get the picture? Just like Pyke or Zed, who are similarly hated, it takes too damn much to peel or finish them while they get to keep all the perks of an assassin. High damage should never be accompanied by high survivability (and mobility is just that).
Nasakeki (NA)
: Just delete Yuumi, please.
Place yuumi on caitlyn, vayne, kai'sa or ezreal. Have fun trying to touch them. It's disgusting. Her ult needs to be changed. It's way too easy to land and makes her a complete counter to dives.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2019-09-13T01:36:54.762+0000) > > You have to be straight out r%%%%%ed to be isolated at lv1 against her and away from minions or your support. Almost as stupid as sidelaning alone as an adc with a khazix in the game. its really easy actually, if you step just a tiny bit away from your minion wave you can get isolated q'ed. like, if you walk in front if it to poke or pressure, or you accidentally get shoved through by minion block. It isn't difficult at all to get isolated q, and to be fair, if there is only the melee minions in front of you it still chunks like crazy. That's just one element of her burst too so idk man. Its not at all comparable to kha q, you have to stand far away from your minion wave. for kai its dependent on her range relative to the wave and where you are positioned in it.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeanne fan club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=000e00000000,timestamp=2019-09-13T02:27:57.598+0000) > > its really easy actually, if you step just a tiny bit away from your minion wave you can get isolated q'ed. like, if you walk in front if it to poke or pressure, or you accidentally get shoved through by minion block. It isn't difficult at all to get isolated q, and to be fair, if there is only the melee minions in front of you it still chunks like crazy. That's just one element of her burst too so idk man. Its not at all comparable to kha q, you have to stand far away from your minion wave. for kai its dependent on her range relative to the wave and where you are positioned in it. Just don't do it. You should be hugging your support in a kaisa lane. It's obvious counterplay. Kaisa is really abusable in her early game.
: getting bursted for 400 damage lvl 1 by a kai q auto is one of the most interactive and enjoyable parts of the video game for me. Oh, and getting instagibbed by a jax who built items that give both flat damage, cooldown reduction and hp on top of his ults base stat steroid, oh BABY thats what I live for.
> [{quoted}](name=Jeanne fan club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2019-09-13T00:53:28.904+0000) > > getting bursted for 400 damage lvl 1 by a kai q auto is one of the most interactive and enjoyable parts of the video game for me. Oh, and getting instagibbed by a jax who built items that give both flat damage, cooldown reduction and hp on top of his ults base stat steroid, oh BABY thats what I live for. You have to be straight out r%%%%%ed to be isolated at lv1 against her and away from minions or your support. Almost as stupid as sidelaning alone as an adc with a khazix in the game.
: Nobody denies Pyke is Assasin. It's his official class. He's Assasin Support. We may discuss how dumb that sounds but you pretend as If Riot was mis-classing him somehow. Support is role, Assasin is class. Kai'Sa is supposed to be assasin/artillery/adc hybrid based on abilities enhanced. Once again, we may discuss it being terrible idea, but it's obvious they aimed for assasin playstyle there given she has isolation aspect. Jax is Diver. He's not the only badly designed Diver with assasin tendencies. Wu, Panth and once in a while Jarvan all built Lethality/Burst-Damage. And they're all Divers.
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vAN8uVNh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-12T21:58:30.337+0000) > > Nobody denies Pyke is Assasin. It's his official class. He's Assasin Support. We may discuss how dumb that sounds but you pretend as If Riot was mis-classing him somehow. Support is role, Assasin is class. > > Kai'Sa is supposed to be assasin/artillery/adc hybrid based on abilities enhanced. Once again, we may discuss it being terrible idea, but it's obvious they aimed for assasin playstyle there given she has isolation aspect. > > Jax is Diver. He's not the only badly designed Diver with assasin tendencies. Wu, Panth and once in a while Jarvan all built Lethality/Burst-Damage. And they're all Divers. Pyke is just a balance conundrum because a regular assassin kit CANNOT succeed in a 2 person lane. Either support katarina/zed/fizz work and are busted, or they experience the tradeoffs of Pyke. Pyke trades off the burst of an assassins (sorry, but he does not come close to the damage of a geared katarina/zed/fizz/akali) for the cc and survival tools a support needs to have in a poke lane like bot lane. What Pyke needs is for that execute to not reset cd, or provide only a % reduction in cd so he can't just trivially sweep a fight given how slippery he is. Especially when the damage is not like Garen's ult where resistances can seriously affect it, so Pyke can delete 30% of a tank's HP, which shouldn't be happening.
: You do realize you always have to play around enemy jungle pressure, doesn't matter who the champion is. Any jungler is capable of ganking you, not just Evelynn. By that logic, it's not fair for global ults like Shen, Panth, and TF to be in the game because they have "the ability to pressure every lane at the same time."
> [{quoted}](name=StainIess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hTpdWgzo,comment-id=00000001000000000001000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-12T14:02:05.307+0000) > > You do realize you always have to play around enemy jungle pressure, doesn't matter who the champion is. Any jungler is capable of ganking you, not just Evelynn. By that logic, it's not fair for global ults like Shen, Panth, and TF to be in the game because they have "the ability to pressure every lane at the same time." Yeah but what those champs get that others don't is their ability to split push. Nocturne is crazy good precisely for this reason, he can take towers and push waves out super quick in mid to late game while being just a few seconds away from joining the fight.
Diävolo (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crystalysk,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hTpdWgzo,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-11T15:42:11.060+0000) > > She is like Yi, stomps in low elo and struggles in high elo... Yi require some braincells to know where to gank and when and when to go into fights. Eve requires literally nothing
> [{quoted}](name=Diävolo,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hTpdWgzo,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-09-11T17:20:35.577+0000) > > Yi require some braincells to know where to gank and when and when to go into fights. > Eve requires literally nothing Except for the fact she's a pitifully weak early game champ that can't contest crabs, begs to get invaded pre-6 24/7, and can't 1v9 even if she gets fed. Eve thrives on weak frontlines with easy access to back lines. She's a lesser Kha Zix in every possible way while Yi scales just as well and has a much stronger early game. Watch an Eve pick, pick a Warwick/Vi/Nocturne/Volibear/Udyr or even Rengar and thrash her right from the early game. Even a good Kayn outscales her and blue kayn outduels her with ult if he builds scimitar (which any assassin champ should against a team with cc). Though honestly, with the state of Hecarim I see little reason to pick anything else. He's a disgusting ganker, with crazy strong 1v1 in jungle and being one of the few viable conqueror junglers with crazy burst and sustained while still being better than duelists like Warwick in getting to a backline or chasing down wounded opponents. What's more, Hecarim like Shaco can afford ignite instead of flash so he can pretty much outduel anyone early with ignite advantage. He's also an amazing turret diver like Eve but without being made of wet toilet paper for teamfights.
: I'm pretty sure this is just supposed to be a band-aid. It'll make her a little better, but it won't fix her core issues. She's one of the OG 40 champs and her extremely simple kit reflects that. She definitely requires a rework/modernization.
> [{quoted}](name=Ionian Vulpix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=HV7k3mhy,comment-id=000a0000000100000000,timestamp=2019-09-12T01:11:42.860+0000) > > I'm pretty sure this is just supposed to be a band-aid. It'll make her a little better, but it won't fix her core issues. She's one of the OG 40 champs and her extremely simple kit reflects that. She definitely requires a rework/modernization. I've been waiting for those Annie/Garen reworks since forever, and I doubt we'll see them anytime soon. The rework of her ult was supposed to be the new direction they would take her, and then they did a 180 on that right now. They really can't make up their minds. Just like Swain. Fact is, they want to make short range mages relevant, but don't give them the tools to survive laning against assassins and artillery mages. Only Vladimir gets that luxury, and even he struggles against good artillery mages like Orianna or Syndra let alone a good Azir (while losing horribly in lane to Zed, Ekko, Akali, and Qiyana).
vyoda (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5q12IydN,comment-id=001b00000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T06:25:35.551+0000) > > I watched a recent game of Laceration (Challenger Zed), and as early as by lv2 the visiting Nautilus made him burn his flash only to come back and get him killed a minute later. That Nautilus was a fucking scourge and I absolutely love it. I remember when I was a mid lane main I used to get so shook when I was 1v2'ing the enemy bard 24/7, I knew I wanted to be the one doing that instead of being in the receiving end. I suppose that's also why people like playing Shen and Nocturne as well ;p, and Pantheon. > > That's why I also enjoy watching Alicopter. He's know by pretty much every streamer to be roaming all day long and being a total pest to other lanes. > > I just played a game as Nocturne (jg main here) and the scumbag who tried to do a chogath mid cheese on our Cassio got so mad about the tent I set up in his lane; nothing feels better than punishing bruiser abusers in mid lane with my jg or supp. I enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy camping ranged top laners in jg or Yasuos who inevitably love to push in and give me free gold. Maybe one day my roams will be as cool as that Challenger nautilus ;-; Also I'm pretty bad at jg... Are you supposed to play jg kinda like roaming support, except with farming and drake/herald?
> [{quoted}](name=vyoda,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5q12IydN,comment-id=001b000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-10T22:36:09.559+0000) > > Maybe one day my roams will be as cool as that Challenger nautilus ;-; > > Also I'm pretty bad at jg... Are you supposed to play jg kinda like roaming support, except with farming and drake/herald? Farm your side of the jungle and gank, that's pretty much it. You're not there to carry yourself, but to get others into the position of being able to carry. If you're laners are bad, or you have 2 losing lanes, you better hope your one winning lane is a Jax/Renekton/Irelia so they can 1v9 the game because a jungler can do nothing if all your lanes are inting.
: Why Do Simple Gameplay Concepts Seem Completely Lost On People?
> [{quoted}](name=CloakAndGrenade,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FMlKeOcb,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-09T02:00:10.634+0000) > > I thought that as I climbed up out of bronze, then out of silver, into gold, and finally into high gold/low plat where I am now, I would see an increase in game knowledge. It only makes sense right? Higher elo players have played the game longer, they've climbed up higher than me, earlier than me. Some are better mechanically than I will ever be. > So why is it some of the basic, fundamental concepts are lost completely on players even reaching up into the diamond elo? > > Vision control is ignored completely. people dive for objectives blind. My junglers are face-checking the enemy blue-buff without so much as a scuttle or blue trinket. When I jungle my laners demand an objective be taken despite no vision control and the enemy jungler being MIA, spamming me with question mark pings as I try to drop wards before hand. They'll try to flank a lone enemy through the enemy's territory with no wards down and get furious at their team when they get blown up by the rest of the enemy team that were moving to assist. Most marksmen don't both helping their supports contest wards, put pinks down, or even use their free yellow trinkets. It's not uncommon to see a match end where the marksmen and both solo laners don't even have 20 ward score. These are usually the same people that are permanently pushing and can't seem to avoid a gank, for obvious reasons. It's depressing to look at the stats by the end of the game and see me over 100 ward score for a long game and the rest of my team not even hitting 40 apiece. > > Or how about team composition. Enemy team locks in Master Yi and Vayne and yet my team will proceed to lock in carries with no CC across the board, then wonder why we can't lock those two down long enough to kill them come late game. Is that a Rammus Jg and a malphite top for the enemy teams first two log-ins? Better believe you're going to get a mid zed or talon with the rest of your team hard-locking in AD damage. Teams without wave clear, teams without hard engage, teams without CC, teams without AP damage, teams without scaling or objective control. Nearly every single game I play the team is missing one or more of these crucial roles and I cant fill them all at once. > > Wave management? Another complete abstract concept to most. Freezing, shoving, pushing, none of it seems to matter. They'll rotate and try to prep for an objective with minions at our inhibs and no map pressure to speak of. They'll continue to hard shove their wave when they are ahead instead of freezing the wave to starve enemy laners of farm, even if they aren't able to actually pressure the turret for plates. If they are behind, instead of last hitting to keep the safety of the turret, they'll hard push and open themselves up to die yet again and lose farm. They wont slow push waves to get them to stack when sieging and don't respond to an enemy baron take by shoving waves while the enemy team backs. > > Itemization? You must be joking. The enemy team could have a Soraka, Warwick, Vladimir, and Mundo all wrapped up together and they still won't build grevious wounds. That Rammus + Malphite combo from earlier? They'll build Black Cleaver because it's over powered but they certainly wont build any other form of armor pen. The amount of end-game lobbies I've seen where a mid-lane AP assassin has popped off and the only person with MR on the team is the support with merc boots is downright maddening. Tank itemization is garbage right now, sure, but if the enemy AP threat is instakilling you, there's no reason to not atleast give yourself a chance with a maw or something. > > I don't get it. As strange is it might sound, seeing someone miss a skillshot or misposition doesn't bother me. Everything from lag to an honest mistake can cause those and they are usually a sign of poor reflexes or tilt. I get it. It doesn't matter how many BoxBox videos you watch, you're not going to be able to land that combo with riven until you've actually practiced it. The game knowledge is inexcusable. It's one thing to miss a skillshot. It's another thing to miss an entire game concept despite having all the information you need to know built-in to the client. People watch Esports and immediately pick up whatever champ this weeks fan-favorite player is playing. If people are watching the pros and trying to copy, why don't they copy the team-work and macro play instead of just the champions or builds? I'm not a mechanically gifted player. I'm not going to be able to pull off those clutch 1v3's, but you can bet that I understand the importance of my macro play. > > I don't know how to fix it. Try bringing any of these up in your solo que matches. Go ahead. See how it works out for you. Tried asking our Mundo jg a little while ago to help me ward the dragon pit. Got called the N-word with a hard R. Granted, his account is almost certainly banned, but that is the reaction people have to gentle advice and polite requests. It is infuriating. Every game I play is being hard won or lost on macro play and teamwork. I don't know what I would have to do to get my teams to just think about the things listed above for mere moments. This game teaches people to be selfish. It diminishes your gold/xp if someone is in your lane, your gold gets split if you don't land the killing blow, making a roam possibly not worthwhile at 150g when a missed minion wave is worth far more plus xp. Because all that matters is that YOU get fed/farm to get items to not be snowballed on, the game from the get-go cultivates players that just want to pad the KDA score. This is why below challenger very few people will build scimitar into malzahar or warwick or bramble vest rush against nasus/aatrox/renekton. It's why most laners will afk in lane farming and not help their jungler who's getting invaded right next by the river just 10 seconds away from them. This game teaches absolute self-absorption because those who play it have the mentality that this game allows them to 1v9 if they can outfarm and get fed to carry, so they don't have to worry about team work or comp. It's all about what they want and tough shit for everyone else. It's why you get ranged top laner picks in a team with zero/just one tank jungler and no tank support, denying you a frontline (because they only care about winning their lane, not the match).
vyoda (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5q12IydN,comment-id=001b,timestamp=2019-09-10T03:48:01.179+0000) > > To tilt the living hell out of the other lanes. Nothing better than a blitzcrank/alistair/bard roaming to mid all game long and making the opponent midlaner and jungler break their keyboards when they feel as if they're playing against 2 junglers. {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} I remember back when Janna E wasn't nerfed, I'd literally visit mid every chance possible and tilt the enemy mid/jg to oblivion. People never get used to roaming Janna's lol
> [{quoted}](name=vyoda,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=5q12IydN,comment-id=001b0000,timestamp=2019-09-10T04:12:34.001+0000) > > {{sticker:slayer-pantheon-popcorn}} > I remember back when Janna E wasn't nerfed, I'd literally visit mid every chance possible and tilt the enemy mid/jg to oblivion. People never get used to roaming Janna's lol I watched a recent game of Laceration (Challenger Zed), and as early as by lv2 the visiting Nautilus made him burn his flash only to come back and get him killed a minute later. That Nautilus was a fucking scourge and I absolutely love it. I remember when I was a mid lane main I used to get so shook when I was 1v2'ing the enemy bard 24/7, I knew I wanted to be the one doing that instead of being in the receiving end. I suppose that's also why people like playing Shen and Nocturne as well ;p, and Pantheon. That's why I also enjoy watching Alicopter. He's know by pretty much every streamer to be roaming all day long and being a total pest to other lanes. I just played a game as Nocturne (jg main here) and the scumbag who tried to do a chogath mid cheese on our Cassio got so mad about the tent I set up in his lane; nothing feels better than punishing bruiser abusers in mid lane with my jg or supp. I enjoy it almost as much as I enjoy camping ranged top laners in jg or Yasuos who inevitably love to push in and give me free gold.
vyoda (NA)
: Support Mains of the Boards: Why do you supp? ʕ•ᴥ•ʔ
To tilt the living hell out of the other lanes. Nothing better than a blitzcrank/alistair/bard roaming to mid all game long and making the opponent midlaner and jungler break their keyboards when they feel as if they're playing against 2 junglers.
: Dude what the fuck is even Cass toplane
Garen shits on her. Jax shits on her, don't know how you're losing to her as Kled, let alone Renekton. Irelia should heal up her poke and by lv6 with ult gets all-in easily. People are so unimaginably bad and they blame the champs for it. Ranged top laners are super abusable if you start flash+ghost and take dorans shield with second wind. The moment you build mercs/tabis and a second armor component you simply run them down with your base stats, and outscale them into the late game since their team won't have a frontline to peel their bot lane. But if it's so hard for you, just grab nocturne and win all day by lv6.
: Why everyone is ragequitting even in ranked now?
Because all you need is 1 death to start the snowball. A 400 gold lead in bot lane spells the end of ever being able to engage the enemy laner, even in mid as well as an extra longsword or spellbook assures you win every single trade, making you reliant on your jungler to bring you back online or watch yourself being starved off CS unless you want to lose half your health or die altogether to an all-in.
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: Damage scales faster and harder than defense.
League of ADC's. Everything is tailored now to making ADC's run the show.
Infernape (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E3mndAzU,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-09-09T04:32:30.022+0000) > > Bring a bruiser mid, crap on him. Stop playing mages or skillshot reliant champs into him, just like when playing against Zed. > > Garen, Renekton, Riven all do well against these champs. Shit even a tank can easily stalemate the lane and stop assassins from snowballing. I've cucked many a Zed by bringing Sion or Ornn mid. Or just bring out the ever so interactive W max Morgana.
> [{quoted}](name=Infernape,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=E3mndAzU,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2019-09-09T08:26:57.616+0000) > > Shit even a tank can easily stalemate the lane and stop assassins from snowballing. I've cucked many a Zed by bringing Sion or Ornn mid. > > Or just bring out the ever so interactive W max Morgana. Sion and malphite are real scummy, but a good Zed will whittle them down and since neither of those have particularly good waveclear, the Zed can constantly roam bot if he has a brain. The real problem with Zed is that r%%%%%ed "you can't touch me while I blow someone up" ult that gives him not only mobility and an immunity window, but two options of displacement with multiplied damage. All he needs to do is roam bot, press R on the support or wounded adc, and collect his gold while fucking off to his shadow, making it pretty much impossible for most heroes to chase him off. It gets even worse once he gets youmuus and edge of night because it makes him pretty much unpeelable during his burst window. So one can crush him in lane but the very design of his kit allows him to 1v2 the bot lane every single time his ult is up. It's stupid. And while his ult is on cd (which is an outrageously low cd for how powerful it is), he just farms on a side lane and has youmuus and W to escape if he gets contested. By the time he gets BC and LDR he can melt tanks with ult, and there are only a few champs in the game who can duel him late with ult up in the side lane. They need to fix his damn ult damage scaling if he's going to be such a safe champ. And if I as an equally fed nocturne with tabis ult on him while he has ult on cd and spellshield one of his spells, he shouldn't be able to still outdamage me because his AD ability scalings are fucking stupid with landing 2 shurikens alongside the low cd of his E and his passive. He's one of the few assassins who can assassinate without ult thanks to the damage scaling of his shadows, yet somehow he gets all these safety nets. That's why I don't feel bad picking Garen with second wind and doran's shield tabi rush into him.
Heos00 (NA)
: Wtf are you talking about? The real reason of why the game is like it is right now it's because everyone gets 45% cdr so easily and every buff on champion, rune and item since season 7 has his damage buffed instead of something else (result of constant crying about Adcs being too op), this has nothing to do with a role that depends on every other role to succeed, the game right now is just URF but without the adc special buff. Literally this is the worst meta for any adc that ever existed, they just die twice as fast by AoE and has little to no room to punish cd's. Btw they just got hard nerfed 2 times, IE crit and global crit item cost and now the average game time is 15-25, no more late game. If botlane is any important it's because there are 2 people that can be killed and 4 manned so easily that means 600g of worth. Basically another comment of another player mad because he couldn't oneshot an adc in the middle of 5 people.
> [{quoted}](name=Heos00,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xd94AUn8,comment-id=000200020001,timestamp=2019-09-09T06:25:53.152+0000) > > Wtf are you talking about? The real reason of why the game is like it is right now it's because everyone gets 45% cdr so easily and every buff on champion, rune and item since season 7 has his damage buffed instead of something else (result of constant crying about Adcs being too op), this has nothing to do with a role that depends on every other role to succeed, the game right now is just URF but without the adc special buff. > > Literally this is the worst meta for any adc that ever existed, they just die twice as fast by AoE and has little to no room to punish cd's. Btw they just got hard nerfed 2 times, IE crit and global crit item cost and now the average game time is 15-25, no more late game. If botlane is any important it's because there are 2 people that can be killed and 4 manned so easily that means 600g of worth. Basically another comment of another player mad because he couldn't oneshot an adc in the middle of 5 people. Or because more than half ot eh ranked latter are ADC mains, dumbass, which tells you everything you need to know about the most influential lane in the game.
TehNACHO (NA)
: Yeah, cuz she's bulkier and has the ability to live longer. It's not because she does more damage, because she doesn't. Also, Ashe and Twitch do see a fair bit of competitive play. And no, it's saying Katarina does more damage because she statistically has an average of 21K damage where Akali does an average of 19K. I don't care how the damage was applied, and all of us shouldn't in this particular discussion. The question is who does more damage, which immobile ADCs and Katarina do. EDIT: Also what in the world is "realistic damage" supposed to mean? These are after the fact statistics of live games, you don't get more realistically applied than that.
> [{quoted}](name=TehNACHO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sm3H6l87,comment-id=0001000000010000,timestamp=2019-09-09T04:40:58.218+0000) > > Yeah, cuz she's bulkier and has the ability to live longer. It's not because she does more damage, because she doesn't. > > Also, Ashe and Twitch do see a fair bit of competitive play. > > And no, it's saying Katarina does more damage because she statistically has an average of 21K damage where Akali does an average of 19K. I don't care how the damage was applied, and all of us shouldn't in this particular discussion. The question is who does more damage, which immobile ADCs and Katarina do. > > EDIT: Also what in the world is "realistic damage" supposed to mean? These are after the fact statistics of live games, you don't get more realistically applied than that. Because if I as malzahar get more statistical damage that is not impactful and reliable damage that leads to kills, it's just padding. I can place E on a tank 24/7 and poke with Q all day long (which will be trivially regen'd or healed by some support at little cost), but that total damage done number means very little compared to a Syndra or Orianna or Zed who did less damage total but it had an actual impact in terms of taking an objective or kills. Katarina may do more padded damage, but undeniably in LCS and higher ELO Akali has been the superior assassin precisely because her damage delivery is more reliable and ends up fulfilling assassinations more successfully than the odd Katarina who snowballs off a bot lane roam. And it shows in LCS picks. Qiyana also does less damage, but the reliability of her toolkit and quicker burst nature has also seen her shine in recent LCS as well compared to Katarina. Aurelion Sol is another example of a champion who can really pad the endgame damage stats but who has historically suffered low play rate because of how deceiving those stats can be relative to actual champ kit strength.
BluWise (NA)
: Nerf Fizz
Bring a bruiser mid, crap on him. Stop playing mages or skillshot reliant champs into him, just like when playing against Zed. Garen, Renekton, Riven all do well against these champs.
OHminus (NA)
: Xayah has one self peel on her long cd ultimate, Caitlyn has one escape tool (her E) that's pretty mediocre, setting down traps doesn't do anything when you're trying to peel for yourself against an assassin Kai'sa is ridiculous but you chose bad examples, adcs otherwise are in a pretty good state right now.
> [{quoted}](name=OHminus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sm3H6l87,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-09T03:09:40.774+0000) > > Xayah has one self peel on her long cd ultimate, Caitlyn has one escape tool (her E) that's pretty mediocre, setting down traps doesn't do anything when you're trying to peel for yourself against an assassin > > Kai'sa is ridiculous but you chose bad examples, adcs otherwise are in a pretty good state right now. Of course everything sounds terrible when you spin it like an asshole. I mean, Annie only has a single stun that displays charges below HP as a warning to all and must be ramped up, with an effective range lower than most mage's autoattack ranges, and it hardly helps her against assassins. Malzahar's ult is a long cooldown that also stuns him as a squishy mage while he uses it and does poor damage unless he landed his previous full combo, hardly a good CC when it gets him killed in a teamfight. See, I can make anything sound terrible. Xayah has a root, an invulnerability window that displaces her and gives her a metric ton of damage plus another source of rooting, and caitlyn's dash is no more mediocre than ekko's while the traps now only snare the opponent off her but trigger her passive. So, yeah, hardly mediocre compared to what Kogmaw and Twitch have, which is a big ball of NOTHING. Caitlyn's survival is also tied to her support's CC's and shields; since, you know, bot lane is not a one champion lane. You try diving a caitlyn+alistair/yuumi as anything but a Zed and get back to me about how easy it is.
Jbels (NA)
: Tanks die way too quickly and have way too few options
> [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=f8W48oJE,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-08T21:03:11.809+0000) > > There is 0 reason why a champion with over 3000 HP and 4 tank items is still somehow dying in less than 4 seconds. Magic Penetration needs to be toned way down, or there needs to be more MR items. I am so sick of going against an almost all AP team and still melting in the late game because I run out of MR items to build MR is hardly the issue. Adaptive helm, gargoyle stoneplate, spirit visage, merc threads are some options. You are melting because 90% of the AD champion roster has %health based damage or true damage in one form or another. You can build all the resistances you want, they won't scale against stacked infinity edges or bortk %hp damage. You'll melt all the same. In fact, MR should always be weaker to armor because mages don't do sustained damage through autoattacks, they do it through skills that have considerable cooldowns. If you can have MR and a mage's full rotation only does 30% of your HP while being on an effective 8+ second cd, why would you bring mages over an ADC who can do more than that all the time just by right clicking you?
TehNACHO (NA)
: Ashe isn't the best example, given she's a Utility ADC and has some of the most unique strengths of the bunch. In other words, she does things that ADCs with mobility and ~~self peel~~ couldn't do. There's also the matter that half her kit being devoted to Utility makes it harder for her to be a hypercarry, so of course she's not a big deal damage dealer. [Anyway, just wanted to factcheck](https://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend). Of the champions you mentioned, Kog'Maw ranks 1 for Damage, Twitch 3, where Xayah, Caitlyn, and Kai'sa rank 8, 7, and **15**. Kai'Sa actually underperforms Ashe (14) of all things in raw damage. Ezreal is the only oddity in this table. Otherwise, if we ignore the Utility ADCs for aforementioned reasons, immobile ADCs widely outperform mobile ADCs in raw damage.
> [{quoted}](name=TehNACHO,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sm3H6l87,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-09-09T00:34:11.808+0000) > > Ashe isn't the best example, given she's a Utility ADC and has some of the most unique strengths of the bunch. In other words, she does things that ADCs with mobility and ~~self peel~~ couldn't do. There's also the matter that half her kit being devoted to Utility makes it harder for her to be a hypercarry, so of course she's not a big deal damage dealer. > > [Anyway, just wanted to factcheck](https://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.totalDamageDealtToChampions&order=descend). Of the champions you mentioned, Kog'Maw ranks 1 for Damage, Twitch 3, where Xayah, Caitlyn, and Kai'sa rank 8, 7, and **15**. Kai'Sa actually underperforms Ashe (14) of all things in raw damage. > > Ezreal is the only oddity in this table. Otherwise, if we ignore the Utility ADCs for aforementioned reasons, immobile ADCs widely outperform mobile ADCs in raw damage. In spreadsheet damage, not realistic damage. There's a reason Kai'sa and Xayah see LCS play but Kogmaw, Ashe, and Twitch rarely do. That's like saying that Katarina does more damage than Akali. Sure, in a world where dagger procs are guaranteed and you get a full ult channel. Which is never.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b00000000000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T19:37:55.441+0000) > > There are champs with far better pick potential than Trundle. Tank-busting and turret melting is what he excels at. What's his playrate as supp? Nonexistant. > > Why pick a trundle with some pillar gimmick when you can pick Sejuani/Skarner/Nunu/Warwick/elise/lee sin for more reliable pick potential? Because he deals far better with tanks than any of those other ones (and he can duel out bruisers in sidelanes later into the game, which none of the previous ones save a fed warwick can), and he can deal with the Udyrs/Xin Zhaos/Lee Sins/Elise early as well short of Warwick who's another fantastic early game duelist. > > Trundle is just currently suffering because Olaf in jungle overshadows him in being the aggressive anti-tank jg, and in top lane trundle can't match up to the overbuffed early game bully bruisers. > > But the moment a tank meta returns, this champion will be all over again. Unless they revert his E nerfs he will remain super-underplayed.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b000000000000000100000000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-09-08T21:40:43.246+0000) > > Unless they revert his E nerfs he will remain super-underplayed. What we need is less niche, binary champs designed around rock-paper-scissors, that's why he suffers. He's only good when tanks are good, much like Amumu in jg. The newer champs are all highly flexible, and that's why older champs suffer, because they were designed essentially as a game of counterpicks.
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y54lqxtz,comment-id=00000004,timestamp=2019-09-08T20:30:37.295+0000) > > Let's ignore the fact some junglers, like nocturne, are completely useless at lv2 and many need lv3 to even come online, yet you have laners trying to force a nocturne or eve to 2v2 against an udyr or sejuani or lee sin/xin zhao at lv2-3 knowing full well what the outcome of the 2v2 will be. oh so the enemy jungler just so happens to be a level ahead. trash jungler then. thank you for solidifying my thoughts once more. this is what people don't get lol, i've seen all the jungle picks gank at lvl2, it's very possible. even a diana. so that excuse, doesn't wash. go find a new one. won't matter to me though cause no jungler gets my assistance.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y54lqxtz,comment-id=000000040000,timestamp=2019-09-08T20:37:26.612+0000) > > oh so the enemy jungler just so happens to be a level ahead. > trash jungler then. > thank you for solidifying my thoughts once more. > > this is what people don't get lol, i've seen all the jungle picks gank at lvl2, it's very possible. > even a diana. > so that excuse, doesn't wash. > go find a new one. > won't matter to me though cause no jungler gets my assistance. This kind of mental handicap is hard to read through, so bye.
: > [{quoted}](name=MrFawknSunshine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y54lqxtz,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-09-07T21:18:43.715+0000) > > in a sense you are right. but being a jungler you should be aware of the enemy jungler common path and set your clear/path to match so you are there for the counter ganks. > > like lets say you are blue side and the enemy jungler is lee. well he is going to start RED and then shuttle then gank top at lvl 2 /3 > > instead of starting at your red on the opposite side , start blue and then contest the shuttle then if needed be ready for a counter gank. if he dont take shuttle or gank then you know he is likely near mid/bot side which can let you counter jungle his jungle or be the one to gank for your laner to take advantage of his pathing. Clearly you're either extremely low elo or you don't have a clue what you're talking about for jungle. If I play amumu or eve and they play khazix/hecarim I garuntee if I come top/mid to help you out it's turning into a double kill. Some champions are so ridiculously overpowered they can 1v2 early game. Khazix can burst you for 600 health with 1 combo at level 4. If he invades it's not your jungle anymore unless teamates rotate, it's his jungle Anyways, op is right and not all junglers need to prioritize counter ganking or intercepting the enemy jungler as power levels between junglers differ massively at different stages of the game.
> [{quoted}](name=DontTypeJustPlay,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y54lqxtz,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-09-08T08:16:23.173+0000) > > Clearly you're either extremely low elo or you don't have a clue what you're talking about for jungle. If I play amumu or eve and they play khazix/hecarim I garuntee if I come top/mid to help you out it's turning into a double kill. Some champions are so ridiculously overpowered they can 1v2 early game. Khazix can burst you for 600 health with 1 combo at level 4. If he invades it's not your jungle anymore unless teamates rotate, it's his jungle > > Anyways, op is right and not all junglers need to prioritize counter ganking or intercepting the enemy jungler as power levels between junglers differ massively at different stages of the game. Pretty much, though I'd say if you had the chance to pick after the enemy picked Khazix and you didn't grab a warwick/voli/nocturne/pantheon/vi as obvious counterpicks into a khazix/hecarim, you did something wrong and doomed the game to start with as you gifted all momentum to the enemy team. Late scaling early farm champs are not something that should be blind picked. If unsure about team comp prios and the enemy choice of jg, ideally pick a strong duelist or a jg who can deal with invades well. Khazix, xin zhao, rengar and udyr are so utterly predictable with lv2 invades, so grab both buffs early even if it means less xp optimization so you can avoid losing buffs to the invade and can avoid them before lv3, as they want to snowball right off a lv2 first blood. Never trust ally laners to collapse onto your jungle to defend against invades, as most of them are afk farming mongos who just want you to gank and lose 70% of your hp doing all the work for them to collect the killing blow most of the time and throw a tantrum if you do otherwise. Either that, or they complain about no ganks when the only time they don't have the enemy pushed in is when you're on the other side of the map, in which case they tell you you don't know how to jg path instead of them not knowing basic wave management. When in doubt, it's always "hurr durr jg diff" no matter what.
: not when my jungler is the same distance from the lane as enemy jungler.
> [{quoted}](name=preternatural,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Y54lqxtz,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-09-07T21:07:55.570+0000) > > not when my jungler is the same distance from the lane as enemy jungler. Let's ignore the fact some junglers, like nocturne, are completely useless at lv2 and many need lv3 to even come online, yet you have laners trying to force a nocturne or eve to 2v2 against an udyr or sejuani or lee sin/xin zhao at lv2-3 knowing full well what the outcome of the 2v2 will be.
: kai'sa doesnt need invis
ADC's with mobility and self peel should never do the damage immobile ADC's do, that's the problem. Xayah, Caitlynn, Kai'sa should do considerably less damage than a Kogmaw, Twitch or Ashe, but they don't.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T17:47:08.473+0000) > > He's gonna be shit at teamfights either way, if you don't have ult, what the fuck are you doing in TF anyways. Your job in tf is to make the enemy frontline wet toilet paper by ulting them. > > The rest of the time, you should be split pushing as trundle takes turrets like few people do and few can duel you at any point of the game. > > He's not a discount jax/yi because jax/yi need to be close to full builds to be able to start dueling bruisers and tanks in sidelanes. Yi will get wrecked by a Renekton in a way trundle won't in the mid to late game. Jax won't make it out of laning phase as he takes forever to come online if the opponent is smart in lane with aggressive play or in jungle with early invades. > > Trundle doesn't scale as well as either of them but that's because he doesn't have anywhere as close to an atrocious and easily abusable early, and he still trumps both of them in eliminating tanks out of team fights. Neither Jax or Yi deal with the deeply obnoxious late game Garen/Shen/Poppy like Trundle does. One ult and all those die in 3 caitlyn/jinx autos. Trundle's teamfighting is great with maxed out Pillar and capped cdr, that shit wins games. Why do you think they keep his Pillar in a hard-nerfed state, while trying to buff the rest of his abilities? While countering tanks and juggernauts is something he's great at, he can easily make plays by peeling/trapping opponents with his E, giving his team free reign to poke the enemy to oblivion. He wouldn't be so good at supporting (with support/tanks build no less) if he couldn't teamfight. High elo Trundle players on SR typically max Pillar first and run Aftershock/tank builds, and that playstyle is generally what gets him nerfed. His damage builds have been lackluster for years. No one at high level play builds him like a carry anymore, with his level of utility (coupled with piss poor damage scaling) there's no point.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b0000000000000001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T18:12:02.991+0000) > > Trundle's teamfighting is great with maxed out Pillar and capped cdr, that shit wins games. Why do you think they keep his Pillar in a hard-nerfed state, while trying to buff the rest of his abilities? > > While countering tanks and juggernauts is something he's great at, he can easily make plays by peeling/trapping opponents with his E, giving his team free reign to poke the enemy to oblivion. > > He wouldn't be so good at supporting (with support/tanks build no less) if he couldn't teamfight. High elo Trundle players on SR typically max Pillar first and run Aftershock/tank builds, and that playstyle is generally what gets him nerfed. > > His damage builds have been lackluster for years. No one at high level play builds him like a carry anymore, with his level of utility (coupled with piss poor damage scaling) there's no point. There are champs with far better pick potential than Trundle. Tank-busting and turret melting is what he excels at. What's his playrate as supp? Nonexistant. Why pick a trundle with some pillar gimmick when you can pick Sejuani/Skarner/Nunu/Warwick/elise/lee sin for more reliable pick potential? Because he deals far better with tanks than any of those other ones (and he can duel out bruisers in sidelanes later into the game, which none of the previous ones save a fed warwick can), and he can deal with the Udyrs/Xin Zhaos/Lee Sins/Elise early as well short of Warwick who's another fantastic early game duelist. Trundle is just currently suffering because Olaf in jungle overshadows him in being the aggressive anti-tank jg, and in top lane trundle can't match up to the overbuffed early game bully bruisers. But the moment a tank meta returns, this champion will be all over again.
huhndog (NA)
: Preach. I love playing tanks, but doesn't mean crap when I get instantly deleted even with a full build and a possitive KDA
> [{quoted}](name=huhndog,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xd94AUn8,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-09-08T14:39:01.166+0000) > > Preach. I love playing tanks, but doesn't mean crap when I get instantly deleted even with a full build and a possitive KDA ADC's cried hard enough and they got what they wanted. Nobody wants to aknowledge Infinity Edge stacking and the sheer absurdity of the damage later game ADC's with all the protection afforded to them by supports are doing. No lane matters anywhere close to as much as bot lane, and nothing has been done about it. 21 kill warwick with GA, thornmail, tabis, and deadman's plate and I still melt like butter to Caitlyn's, Jinx's, Xayahs through my E damage reduction in less than 10 seconds. Now you understand why everybody just goes kamikaze assassins, because if it's going to be a game of dying in less than 5 seconds might as well be either an ADC or assassin/burst mage. Frontlines simply don't last in the current state of the game.
Lovelle (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Crescent Dusk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b0000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-07T20:30:43.447+0000) > > He's not that bad if you're some ranged kiting champ or a burst champ pre-6. After that he outduels pretty much any immobile melee, e.g tanks and bruisers that are not Renekton or OP garbage like Darius and Kled who just stat check everyone pre-11. Once he gets botrk, death's dance, and trinity he shits on anyone he wants short of late game Jax. Trinity isn't even that good on him. Neither is Death's Dance. If he builds like that, he basically doesn't get to team fight unless massively fed. He has no mitigation abilities outside of his ult, so he has to build tanky. Bork is good on him, but he can't afford to rush it against good players or he'll typically just get CC'd/kited and bursted. He also lacks waveclearing abilities, he has one of the slower clearing speeds among the junglers, which forces him into rushing Tiamat/Bami's Cinder or risk falling behind against faster junglers. He doesn't scale well with AD items, just health/CDR/On-hit, along with anything that gives lifesteal and/or health regen. This makes Botrk and/or Wit's End vastly more useful than an expensive item like Death's Dance if you need lifesteal. Lastly, his sustain scales with his tankiness, so he can't afford many damage items that don't have either resists or health tied to them. With a glass cannon build he's merely a discount Jax or Yi.
> [{quoted}](name=Lovelle,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=99ds253A,comment-id=000b00000000000000010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-09-08T01:46:25.198+0000) > > Trinity isn't even that good on him. Neither is Death's Dance. If he builds like that, he basically doesn't get to team fight unless massively fed. He has no mitigation abilities outside of his ult, so he has to build tanky. Bork is good on him, but he can't afford to rush it against good players or he'll typically just get CC'd/kited and bursted. > > He also lacks waveclearing abilities, he has one of the slower clearing speeds among the junglers, which forces him into rushing Tiamat/Bami's Cinder or risk falling behind against faster junglers. > > He doesn't scale well with AD items, just health/CDR/On-hit, along with anything that gives lifesteal and/or health regen. This makes Botrk and/or Wit's End vastly more useful than an expensive item like Death's Dance if you need lifesteal. > > Lastly, his sustain scales with his tankiness, so he can't afford many damage items that don't have either resists or health tied to them. With a glass cannon build he's merely a discount Jax or Yi. He's gonna be shit at teamfights either way, if you don't have ult, what the fuck are you doing in TF anyways. Your job in tf is to make the enemy frontline wet toilet paper by ulting them. The rest of the time, you should be split pushing as trundle takes turrets like few people do and few can duel you at any point of the game. He's not a discount jax/yi because jax/yi need to be close to full builds to be able to start dueling bruisers and tanks in sidelanes. Yi will get wrecked by a Renekton in a way trundle won't in the mid to late game. Jax won't make it out of laning phase as he takes forever to come online if the opponent is smart in lane with aggressive play or in jungle with early invades. Trundle doesn't scale as well as either of them but that's because he doesn't have anywhere as close to an atrocious and easily abusable early, and he still trumps both of them in eliminating tanks out of team fights. Neither Jax or Yi deal with the deeply obnoxious late game Garen/Shen/Poppy like Trundle does. One ult and all those die in 3 caitlyn/jinx autos.
: If you are going to make this sort of video. At least change the unforgiving meta.
> [{quoted}](name=Crimson Zeppelin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FpzGTrO4,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-09-07T11:25:12.516+0000) > > We literally cannot tell if our ally is "just losing" or straight out inting with the current snowball and JG gankfest that requires no farm. VIsion is lower than previous seasons so map dominance is really hard to reclaim. The current views of this game is that games end at the 15 min mark and people get "trapped" in until their nexus explode at 24 mins. Bounty systems punish carrying players so it benefits "the weakest link" of the enemy team and articifuially even out the matchup. (I literally adjusted my playstyle heavily to try to NOT get a bounty on my head) > I have the highest winrate I achieved on my main champion, Yet I feel like I have no agency compared to previous seasons. (And I'm playing Malzahar. One of the champions with the highest agencies in the whole game) > > > Fix your damn game before you make these sort of videos. It's not going to change anything when your gaming environment is so flawed that people panic in despair and have no chance of a comeback. > Also your player behaviour system also is flawed since it fails to ban people who "doesn't speak" and bans people who calls it out instead. Thank you Lyte your legacy still lives on after you got kicked out, Jungle needs to farm to stay even in xp, no matter how much it ganks. By the first clear of your side of the jungle if you try to gank the enemy laner will be 6 and you 4. What's happening is that junglers are forced to gank EARLY before 6 so they can get some sort of advantage to leverage against laners who will always outlevel you even as you powerfarm your jungle and to keep them weak enough against your laner so they can't invade your jungle along with their jungler. The meta is gank heavy because no matter how well a jungler farms, he will always be outleveled by laners, he's handicapped by smite and the jungle item eating up one slot so he can never carry in teamfights anywhere near as well as a fed laner, so the way junglers carry is by helping their laners get fed, especially bot and top lane (particularly bot lane, because that's 2 people you get ahead). A jungler camping bot lane means 3 people get ahead. A jungler power farming means his bot lane can get 3 manned and 3 of the enemy get ahead, get first turret since turrets are made of paper and can snowball their gains by invading the remaining lanes and outmanning turrets one by one. A jungler still needs to farm all his jungle to not be 3-shot by enemy laners for being 3+ levels behind, but he HAS to be actively ganking or counterganking just so that the game doesn't snowball out of his control. Until they buff turret durability and nerf the gold gains from kills, snowballing will continue to be an issue and junglers will continue to favor ganking as they cannot solo carry at all short of a fed yi/jax against a team with no CC
Show more

Crescent Dusk

Level 130 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion