Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: November 17
Any thoughts on the difficulty to proc kleptomancy with a melee champion? Are you afraid that kleptomancy might become another death fire grasp in terms of only having enough power to be usable on a few champions because with enough power to be more generally available it would be broken on those few? What do you think about top lane right now? What do you think about the overall damage in the game, is it too high, too low, or just right? Are there any plans to make melee versus ranged matchups a little more enjoyable for both sides? Any new items in the works? At one time you were talking about a diver class update, is that still going to happen?
Rioter Comments
Xavanic (NA)
: Dirty change riot
idgaf I just straight dodge when I get autofilled. there are other games I can play while I wait for the penalty to expire.
Rioter Comments
: Nah. It's more like this. https://i.imgur.com/yKuia8r.png()
> [{quoted}](name=Demon Empress,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=pk3iBtJy,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-11-12T22:06:11.414+0000) > > Nah. It's more like this. > https://i.imgur.com/yKuia8r.png() hungarian naming convention http://hevria.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/4061562837_398453950b_o.jpg
: If season 8 doesn't make marksmen thoroughly weaker in practice than they are now
Rockman (NA)
: .
that needs to be framed and put in a gallery
Rioter Comments
Penns (EUW)
: It also played the sound that only plays when Azir Q hits tho + Jhin was slowed from it after your ult hit. And Azir got an assist, so..
> [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nUtXBjKf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-11-02T12:14:44.349+0000) > > It also played the sound that only plays when Azir Q hits tho + Jhin was slowed from it after your ult hit. And Azir got an assist, so.. Well damn I didn't see that lol. Jeez it must have happened on the exact same frame that the veigar ult did damage.\ Also, why the hell does Azir have the ability to summon a soldier, reposition it and then attack with it in the time it takes veigar's ultimate to travel through the air. Damn cast times are nonexistent in this game lol.
Penns (EUW)
: Pretty sure Azir Q hit him there at the same time as well. opie hitbox tho lul
> [{quoted}](name=Penns,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nUtXBjKf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-11-02T12:05:50.189+0000) > > Pretty sure Azir Q hit him there at the same time as well. opie hitbox tho lul He didn't have time to attack with it, he only had time to use Arise and then Conquering Sands, and the soldier didn't pass through jhin so he didn't take damage from that.
: He got hit by Azir's Q as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nUtXBjKf,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-11-02T12:07:13.163+0000) > > He got hit by Azir's Q as well. No that isn't possible. Azir merely repositioned his soldier, he didn't have time to attack with it and the soldier doesn't do damage for repositioning unless they pass through the target.
: How is it that Jhin can do the same thing with his auto attack?
> [{quoted}](name=Striking Venom,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nUtXBjKf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-11-02T12:05:15.347+0000) > > How is it that Jhin can do the same thing with his auto attack? This isn't a complaint I'm legit curious about how it even works. Veigar's ultimate should have done 0.75 \* 960 + 325 = 1045 damage.
Rioter Comments
: Please for the love of Talos stop putting new players in Silver
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: >but still, Twitch can manage 3 autos in under a second Isn't the autoattack speed cap 2.5 per second? Bit of an exaggeration, mate.
> [{quoted}](name=tombdragon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9PooI7mq,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2017-10-27T16:34:39.129+0000) > > Isn't the autoattack speed cap 2.5 per second? > > Bit of an exaggeration, mate. If you had 1 attack per second that doesn't mean you have to wait one second to make your very first attack, you just have to wait 1 second between attacks. That means the first attack is virtually free. So in all likelihood he did have 3 attacks in about one second.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Riot , we have a problem
Because of the way the internet is designed, it is impossible to truly ban anyone from any service because it is impossible to verify whether two users of any service are the same person. IP addresses can be changed, spoofed through a proxy, or hidden behind a virtual net. Names and other identifying information can be forged. You have to understand that the internet wasn't originally designed for the web or for video games. It was designed for the military and the primary design goal was to ensure that there would be no loss of functionality to the internet as a whole if any specific node (city or population center) were destroyed in a nuclear war. There were tradeoffs made in the design to keep the internet resilient even at the cost of making vulnerable to impersonation. There is literally nothing RIOT can do about botnets from their end, and even through the legal system they have no power to stop it unless they are able to identify who is doing the botnetting in the first place-- but that is often impossible to do against an expert hacker because any expert knows that the internet is vulnerable to impersonation and knows how to use that to keep hidden. And any algorithm developed to make a distinction between bot accounts and normal accounts must not falsely identify a real account as a bot account or real people will become irate. Hackers know this and can make sure the vulnerabilities in their bots coincide with the vulnerabilities in RIOT's distinction constraints.
: You can't deal damage if you're dead. The counterplay to adcs is to kill them. The counterplay to that is to protect them with supports and tanks. There's a rock-paper-scissors situation going on here. If you have too many squishy champs, you'll get run over no matter how much damage those squishies can theoretically deal. I was just in an aram game with a kind of normal team comp (mix of tanks and damage dealers) against 4 adc's and a Braum. We just destroyed them. It wasn't even close.
> [{quoted}](name=MungoGeri,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4ZTXgsgf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-18T01:40:59.608+0000) > > You can't deal damage if you're dead. The counterplay to adcs is to kill them. The counterplay to that is to protect them with supports and tanks. There's a rock-paper-scissors situation going on here. If you have too many squishy champs, you'll get run over no matter how much damage those squishies can theoretically deal. I was just in an aram game with a kind of normal team comp (mix of tanks and damage dealers) against 4 adc's and a Braum. We just destroyed them. It wasn't even close. that is faulty reasoning marksmen are no MORE vulnerable to death than anyone else-- no class can do anything if dead marksmen might be more vulnerable to DYING because they are squishy but that is another matter entirely-- being squishy vs having to be in melee range to do anything but being tanky is just a tradeoff; generally both make you effectively resistant to dying. death as the primary form of counterplay doesn't lead to very interesting (or fair) games, and that is why RIOT has been reworking so many classes to get rid of this kind of prevailing form of counterplay.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: It went back to the drawing board after the test group determined it was absolutely batshit broken....Even though that fits some of the champions at the moment. "cough cough" Sejuani "Cough Cough"
> [{quoted}](name=KuroCaliber,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=gWpRe720,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2017-10-13T12:35:27.866+0000) > > It went back to the drawing board after the test group determined it was absolutely batshit broken....Even though that fits some of the champions at the moment. "cough cough" Sejuani "Cough Cough" https://i.imgur.com/ueVrGZW.png
Rioter Comments
PhRoXz0n (NA)
: Skirting the line between "ADC in 2017" and "ADC in 2017" is a tough one. Ultimately, understanding and building towards the union of what would make designers at Riot happy with the game and also what players find fun, engaging and variant game to game is quite a challenge. Marksmen have a unique power curve, such that just nerfing them doesn't make much of an impact by itself. By supporting a late game fantasy, it almost by definition makes them quite hard to deal with late game. The balancing factor is that both teams have one, so they kind of neutralise each other. Ideally, most designers would prefer that teams can play variant classes of characters in the "support lane", but the way the game is constructed right now, Marksmen are pretty much the way to go due to their tower killing proficiency and late game scaling. Ideally, the best solution in this space is to find something that both players and designers are aligned on (eg. players feel like all roles have agency, designers feel like you can do any number of meaningfully different strategies to win). TLDR is that nerfing marksman doesn't automatically solve the problem. If players are inherently not happy about skirting the boundary between either ADC's being unable to touch tanks or ADC's being too powerful, it's possible that exploring some more fundamental changes to the way ADC's function is a potential option - which of course carry different costs and benefits.
> [{quoted}](name=Trading Stance,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KlAZisy,comment-id=0014,timestamp=2017-10-09T08:06:51.491+0000) > > Skirting the line between "ADC in 2017" and "ADC in 2017" is a tough one. Ultimately, understanding and building towards the union of what would make designers at Riot happy with the game and also what players find fun, engaging and variant game to game is quite a challenge. > > Marksmen have a unique power curve, such that just nerfing them doesn't make much of an impact by itself. By supporting a late game fantasy, it almost by definition makes them quite hard to deal with late game. The balancing factor is that both teams have one, so they kind of neutralise each other. Ideally, most designers would prefer that teams can play variant classes of characters in the "support lane", but the way the game is constructed right now, Marksmen are pretty much the way to go due to their tower killing proficiency and late game scaling. > > Ideally, the best solution in this space is to find something that both players and designers are aligned on (eg. players feel like all roles have agency, designers feel like you can do any number of meaningfully different strategies to win). > > TLDR is that nerfing marksman doesn't automatically solve the problem. If players are inherently not happy about skirting the boundary between either ADC's being unable to touch tanks or ADC's being too powerful, it's possible that exploring some more fundamental changes to the way ADC's function is a potential option - which of course carry different costs and benefits. if designers aren't happy with what players would be happy with then they need to be replaced because making players happy with the game is their job.
Xonra (NA)
: How dare supports be able to play the game on the same level as everyone else. "Supports" are as strong as "normal" champions". You are what is wrong with this game, not the balance. That logic and your refusal to see it as anything but what you want it to be is what hurts it more than anything.
> [{quoted}](name=Xonra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KlAZisy,comment-id=000000000004,timestamp=2017-10-09T14:13:02.315+0000) > > How dare supports be able to play the game on the same level as everyone else. > > "Supports" are as strong as "normal" champions". You are what is wrong with this game, not the balance. That logic and your refusal to see it as anything but what you want it to be is what hurts it more than anything. you are inferring and you need to stop i didn't say supports being as strong as normal champions was a bad thing the conjunction of a good thing and a bad thing is a bad thing.
Rioter Comments
Moooose2 (NA)
: Man, that does sound horrible. Good thing it's not in the fucking game.
> [{quoted}](name=Moooose2,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=j3aG3xPY,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-08T02:15:13.936+0000) > > Man, that does sound horrible. Good thing it's not in the fucking game. ranged auto attacks
Rioter Comments
: so how do you feel about the runes that stack ad infinitely or the rune that allows them to break the as cap cuz those as of now are planned to exist next season
> [{quoted}](name=jwebb0113,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7KlAZisy,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-07T23:59:55.949+0000) > > so how do you feel about the runes that stack ad infinitely or the rune that allows them to break the as cap > > cuz those as of now are planned to exist next season i don't really care about whether those runes will exist or not its the fact that supports are as strong as normal champions now, and the fact that marksmen are the most supportable class in the game unless they change the latter this game is going to tank quickly this is primarily because marksmen have the least available counterplay-- all their damage is point and click, and everything else in the game has been reworked to have counterplay. obviously the game isn't going to work if that doesn't change.
  Rioter Comments
: That's a terrible Nasus build. But to answer your question, Yi will kill Nasus at pretty much any point of the game. Because Riot sometimes makes idiotic decisions, Yi is now immune to Wither's AS slow while Yi has his ult active.
> [{quoted}](name=Darkdemon653,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIcaxx66,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-07T01:46:06.823+0000) > > That's a terrible Nasus build. > > But to answer your question, Yi will kill Nasus at pretty much any point of the game. Because Riot sometimes makes idiotic decisions, Yi is now immune to Wither's AS slow while Yi has his ult active. he's immune to all attack speed slows, even frozen heart, while in highlander
Die Alone (EUW)
: > take the build i suggested into practice mode and see how much faster it kills something like dragon Ye except that Dragon isn't a 400 armor 4k hp Nasus with 3rd rank ult active. Your build offer 0 current/max hp damage or armor pen to counter that. And since you have no armor/hp yourself 2 sheen Qs from the cane and you're done.
> [{quoted}](name=Lucifer Risíng,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIcaxx66,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2017-10-07T01:41:57.061+0000) > > Ye except that Dragon isn't a 400 armor 4k hp Nasus with 3rd rank ult active. Your build offer 0 current/max hp damage or armor pen to counter that. And since you have no armor/hp yourself 2 sheen Qs from the cane and you're done. the damage reduction is enough to keep you alive for 4 q's at 800 stacks, given yi's base armor. nasus will be dead before he gets off that many q's, even with the cdr on his q provided by his ult. to give you some of the math: yi with this build has about 150 on hit damage from wuju style (if you count everything including stacked ferver and rageblade for bonus ad). he triggers on hits 5 times per second. that means 750 true damage per second, which he can keep up for up to 6 seconds. thats 4500 true damage over 6 seconds. during that same period of time he will do 18750 physical damage before armor. so he needs about 3 seconds to kill nasus, which means he has to survive about 3 q's. He can easily do that with all the damage reduction from this build, especially if he blocks one with meditate.
Die Alone (EUW)
: Tried it before, full offensive/crit Yi builds hardly allows him to duel bruisers/juggernauts. Especially that your build has no armor/hp shredding components and no synergy with rageblade whatsoever.
> [{quoted}](name=Lucifer Risíng,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIcaxx66,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2017-10-07T01:36:47.821+0000) > > Tried it before, full offensive/crit Yi builds hardly allows him to duel bruisers/juggernauts. Especially that your build has no armor/hp shredding components and no synergy with rageblade whatsoever. rageblade causes master yi's passive to trigger more often because the phantom attack counts as an attack. Yi's passive can critically strike. https://plays.tv/video/5797ec5f2c1c416e4a/late-game-yi?from=user
BubbaV (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIcaxx66,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-07T01:33:22.342+0000) > > bad yi build tbh > > proper yi build is: > > {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3087}} so no jungle item?
> [{quoted}](name=BubbaV,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=wIcaxx66,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-10-07T01:35:00.581+0000) > > so no jungle item? nah sell it, it isn't worth keeping take the build i suggested into practice mode and see how much faster it kills something like dragon (practice dummies won't give accurate results because enemy champions don't walk around with 10k hp for botrk and devourer; botrk and devourer have a cap on monsters, so the results are more accurate)
Die Alone (EUW)
: Nasus vs Master Yi (lategame duel)
bad yi build tbh proper yi build is: {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3508}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3087}}
Rioter Comments
R2D20 (NA)
: I'm still saying that the ADC or Support would get the last hit, I'm just foreseeing something with massive wave clears being paired up and shifting the botlane meta - for example: {{champion:15}} {{champion:61}} they clear the wave and then speed off to a neutral objective or gank mid / invade jungle. Basically what I think it'd boil down to is a high roam botlane with massive wave clear -- they wouldn't worry about putting the wave in a weird position because they clear it so fast that they could pressure other areas.
> [{quoted}](name=R2D20,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRcEBc9x,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2017-10-03T19:24:24.430+0000) > > I'm still saying that the ADC or Support would get the last hit, I'm just foreseeing something with massive wave clears being paired up and shifting the botlane meta - for example: {{champion:15}} {{champion:61}} they clear the wave and then speed off to a neutral objective or gank mid / invade jungle. > > Basically what I think it'd boil down to is a high roam botlane with massive wave clear -- they wouldn't worry about putting the wave in a weird position because they clear it so fast that they could pressure other areas. i mean whats to stop them from doing that right now? sounds like an optimal strategy with or without the suggested changes. the best way to avoid being 4 manned is to not be there at all, and be ganking and killing the mid laner over and over instead.
: Yeah. The minions would. Meaning that everyone still splits it.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRcEBc9x,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-10-03T19:11:21.980+0000) > > Yeah. The minions would. Meaning that everyone still splits it. i was thinking that as long as an ally champion kills the minion, nearby allies get the bounty
: You did a great job with making a reasonable argument, as promised. I still don't agree, and here's why: Whatever lane the support is in still has to share gold. It's bad enough making them share xp, but sharing gold also will make it so that neither of those players has enough gold to do their job against the other 3. I would not want to play support *or* marksmen in this kind of a system; I posit that they will just have less impact on the game. That *does* change the game, and it would add diversity. I think the cost of those in this system is too high, though. Instead, I think Riot needs to spend more time thinking about how to give legitimate gold to supports without taking it away from marksmen, and without making gold generation good for solo laners/junglers. The current gold items simply don't do the job well enough. It's that simple. If they found a way to fix that, I think the problem is solved, and it would disrupt the game a lot less. Again, want to stress that I love your thinking here, and I think the discussion is valuable. Would love to keep bouncing ideas about it back and forth, perhaps some pros/cons type discussions. Anything to generate new ideas is good, in my book.
> [{quoted}](name=KempyreanPirate,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=eRcEBc9x,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-10-03T19:17:32.558+0000) > > You did a great job with making a reasonable argument, as promised. I still don't agree, and here's why: > > Whatever lane the support is in still has to share gold. It's bad enough making them share xp, but sharing gold also will make it so that neither of those players has enough gold to do their job against the other 3. I would not want to play support *or* marksmen in this kind of a system; I posit that they will just have less impact on the game. > > That *does* change the game, and it would add diversity. I think the cost of those in this system is too high, though. > > Instead, I think Riot needs to spend more time thinking about how to give legitimate gold to supports without taking it away from marksmen, and without making gold generation good for solo laners/junglers. The current gold items simply don't do the job well enough. It's that simple. If they found a way to fix that, I think the problem is solved, and it would disrupt the game a lot less. > > Again, want to stress that I love your thinking here, and I think the discussion is valuable. Would love to keep bouncing ideas about it back and forth, perhaps some pros/cons type discussions. Anything to generate new ideas is good, in my book. not share double
: Support only have their items for gold income Everyone else has to the effort in to CS/kill monsters It's only logical that the gold source with the least effort required would get the least amount If I could play support and earn the same amount of gold as a solo lane without the effort of CSing then why would I ever play anything other than support? Explain how supports can have comparable income to everyone else while maintaining anywhere near as much effort put in
> [{quoted}](name=Face The Win,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t8THXil4,comment-id=000000000002,timestamp=2017-10-03T11:45:45.341+0000) > > Support only have their items for gold income > Everyone else has to the effort in to CS/kill monsters > > It's only logical that the gold source with the least effort required would get the least amount > If I could play support and earn the same amount of gold as a solo lane without the effort of CSing then why would I ever play anything other than support? > > Explain how supports can have comparable income to everyone else while maintaining anywhere near as much effort put in https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/eRcEBc9x-riot-you-should-add-minion-bounty-sharing-and-here-is-a-coherent-argument-about-why
Rioter Comments
: congratulations you too can form imaginary arguments with the business riot welcome to the club
> [{quoted}](name=somestones,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t8THXil4,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-02T23:54:35.407+0000) > > congratulations you too can form imaginary arguments with the business riot > > welcome to the club thanks fam i intend to make you proud
: Only somewhat related, but does anyone have any good ideas for an interesting version of Sunfire Cape that you'd be excited to use and play against? We've been slow to buff Sunfire because the gameplay it brings when it's good isn't very interesting or fun, and so it's at best overly niche right now. That said, leaving it pretty bleh isn't the right treatment, and we would like to do something with it to make it worth its spot in the shop. So if you have any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them. Buffing its stats or the damage of its current effect probably wouldn't cut it.
> [{quoted}](name=RiotRepertoir,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ozlA8BEL,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-02T21:41:17.612+0000) > > Only somewhat related, but does anyone have any good ideas for an interesting version of Sunfire Cape that you'd be excited to use and play against? We've been slow to buff Sunfire because the gameplay it brings when it's good isn't very interesting or fun, and so it's at best overly niche right now. > > That said, leaving it pretty bleh isn't the right treatment, and we would like to do something with it to make it worth its spot in the shop. So if you have any ideas, I'd be interested in hearing them. Buffing its stats or the damage of its current effect probably wouldn't cut it. If sunfire cape shouldn't be an item that provides persistent aoe damage then you'll have to rework it into something else. How about this: sunfire cape does no damage passively, but any ability cast on the cape wielder or by the cape wielder causes the cape to spurt out a burst of flame around it doing magic damage equal to 25 + 50% of magic resist. then swap out the chain vest for negatron cloak
XDDD (NA)
: It's actually pretty funny how much these boards hate marksmen vs. how much Reddit hates melee champs and thinks marksmen are fine. But I agree that bot lane needs heavy nerfs in terms of game impact. Also, what do you specifically mean by adding a 5th gold stream?
> [{quoted}](name=XDDD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=t8THXil4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-02T21:26:59.103+0000) > > It's actually pretty funny how much these boards hate marksmen vs. how much Reddit hates melee champs and thinks marksmen are fine. But I agree that bot lane needs heavy nerfs in terms of game impact. > > Also, what do you specifically mean by adding a 5th gold stream? 3 lanes + 1 jungle = 4 primary streams of gold support items don't really equate to a full stream, so supports don't get to play the item power fantasy game that everyone else does. Riot thinks the answer is to make support items cheaper, but that just ends up being abused by mid laners. they've tried making the component support items trashy in a solo lane, having their passives turn off when you are farming for instance-- but that just makes supports feel worse for buying it and doesn't fix the core issue. The core issue is most people don't want to play supports because they don't have a power fantasy. Riot is dead set on making sure supports are "different" even if "different" isn't necessarily "better or as good as"
swapnava (NA)
: best champ like tryndermere,tahm kench
Rioter Comments
: The maximum amount of tenacity you can get from the new runes, items and summoners is 94.54%
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Critkeeper

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