Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Kai Guy (NA)
: Would you like a quick and dirty result here or should I take the time to properly flesh out a champion and post it in concepts and creations then just provide a link here?
> [{quoted}](name=Kai Guy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtVsharI,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-09-24T06:12:24.501+0000) > > Would you like a quick and dirty result here or should I take the time to properly flesh out a champion and post it in concepts and creations then just provide a link here? anything that suits you
: > [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtVsharI,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-09-24T05:26:37.639+0000) >Riot isn't going to add something like that for the same reason they won't add turn rate-- it makes the game less responsive I agree Riot will never do it but it wouldn't have anything to do with responsiveness. It would just be a large amount of work and resources. There's many ways you could implement an aiming animation and the way I outline shouldn't feel clunky at all. It's unfair to say "but if it was implemented badly then it would be bad" - you could say that about anything. I'm assuming it's being implemented in a simple, elegant way that feels smooth and any arguments against it should assume that. > A different approach that retains responsitivity but shores the discrepancy between melee and ranged would be something like making it so that ranged auto attacks do not penetrate through units. The problem with that is how would you last hit minions that are being blocked? I think this would feel much worse than an aiming animation. You have much less target control, much less control of your cs, and much less power in team fights since tanks can easily save squishes by just walking in front of them. Why would anyone ever pick Braum if this was how ranged autos worked? Every champion and minion would now have a permanent unbreakable.
> [{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtVsharI,comment-id=000600000000,timestamp=2017-09-24T05:37:40.847+0000) > > I agree Riot will never do it but it wouldn't have anything to do with responsiveness. It would just be a large amount of work and resources. There's many ways you could implement an aiming animation and the way I outline shouldn't feel clunky at all. It's unfair to say "but if it was implemented badly then it would be bad" - you could say that about anything. I'm assuming it's being implemented in a simple, elegant way that feels smooth and any arguments against it should assume that. > > The problem with that is how would you last hit minions that are being blocked? I think this would feel much worse than an aiming animation. You have much less target control, much less control of your cs, and much less power in team fights since tanks can easily save squishes by just walking in front of them. Why would anyone ever pick Braum if this was how ranged autos worked? Every champion and minion would now have a permanent unbreakable. unbreakable has damage reduction attached to it and destroys the first instance of damage that hits it yeah it would be harder to cs as range, but its already harder to cs as melee. its about shoring up the difference and making it just as hard to cs regardless of whether you are ranged or melee. remember, ranged champion can cs under tower much more safely than melee champions can with or without this change, and they can harass under tower too-- what advantage they would lose in the middle of the lane they would gain at the ends. Currently its not balanced for parity, its balanced by just making it so that melee champions are generally strong enough stat-wise to cheese ranged champions (or they just lose the matchup from level 1) besides that, it gives tanks a way to protect squishies without having to have insane crowd control or goofy damage and sticking power. If people want tanks to be able to actually tank things for their allies--- well i mean obviously they'd have to actually be ABLE to tank things for their allies right? i also realize something like this would require a rework to basically every champion and item, but that isn't my point or suggestion. I'm just saying that if the game were made again today, this is probably how it would be.
: You can but it won't be viable. Every melee has to pay the "melee tax" so that it doesn't get dumpstered by any ranged champion that can kite. I came up with a simple solution that would remove the melee tax, allowing these kinds of kits to exist. Everyone *absolutely hates it*. Check it out: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8n6TKAAu-adding-an-aiming-animation-to-ranged-auto-attacks-would-do-a-lot-for-champion-diversityviability
> [{quoted}](name=i cant move wtf,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KtVsharI,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-09-24T00:42:33.482+0000) > > You can but it won't be viable. Every melee has to pay the "melee tax" so that it doesn't get dumpstered by any ranged champion that can kite. I came up with a simple solution that would remove the melee tax, allowing these kinds of kits to exist. Everyone *absolutely hates it*. Check it out: > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/8n6TKAAu-adding-an-aiming-animation-to-ranged-auto-attacks-would-do-a-lot-for-champion-diversityviability Riot isn't going to add something like that for the same reason they won't add turn rate-- it makes the game less responsive. Xypherous has said before that riot values responsitivity more that strategy in league of legends, at a high level. A different approach that retains responsitivity but shores the discrepancy between melee and ranged would be something like making it so that ranged auto attacks do not penetrate through units. For instance, if a ranged champion wanted to harass you in lane you could just stand behind a melee minion and they would have to sneak in auto attacks between their last hits and yours when they can find an opening between the minions. That would make it so that range is such an extreme advantage in the laning phase, which would mean ranged and melee champion balance wouldn't be dominated by the interaction they have with eachother. Riot probably doesn't even want to go that far though.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: A worrying trynd with supports
dude u suck speak english dumbass
: Item Stats By Champion Class
skirmishers by design should have the ability to ignore durability either they should receive that innately from their kit or should have exclusive access to items that do it intensely enough to make them viable.
: Huh? Yasuo's passive definitely IS sustain, unless sustain only means healing now and not increasing effective health or mana consistently.
> [{quoted}](name=TsunamiWave22,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=53s8lfJA,comment-id=0004000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-22T02:58:38.903+0000) > > Huh? Yasuo's passive definitely IS sustain, unless sustain only means healing now and not increasing effective health or mana consistently. thats precisely what it means
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Let’s Discuss: Marksmen
You see, nobody really wanted to play support so the queue times were terrible. Riot decided to solve this by adding more and more agency to the support role. More and more. More and more and more, until they far surpassed any other class in terms of influence on the game. And then some more. And more. And now they are strong enough that 20% of the playerbase is willing to play support, but it turns out that the level of strength required is so high, nobody can really play against supports-- they have all the agency and everyone else feels terrible about it. Combine that with the fact that marksmen leverage supports better than any other class, and the problems with supports having so much agency is extremely exacerbated-- because marksmen really don't have a downside if they can multiply the absurdly high agency of the support role into straight unstoppable carrying power.
: And then what happens to supports? If marksmen are healthy enough to go into solo lanes and dominate, where do the champions that have kits too binary to support a solo lane go? Riot has repeatedly nerfed Janna, Lulu, Sona, Alistar, Taric and Blitzcrank to keep them out of mid top and jungle.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZ4yZ55u,comment-id=0012000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T16:28:04.470+0000) > > And then what happens to supports? If marksmen are healthy enough to go into solo lanes and dominate, where do the champions that have kits too binary to support a solo lane go? Riot has repeatedly nerfed Janna, Lulu, Sona, Alistar, Taric and Blitzcrank to keep them out of mid top and jungle. My point stands and is more vital than concerns about the health of a specific class of champions. --To reiterate: the game should not be so broken that only a single metagame can be supported. If its broken then it needs fixing. If that fixing involves reworking a class of champions to be healthy, then that is what it involves.
: You can't do that either. These champions are intended to be in a 2v2 lane. If they have higher health and armor, they become basically immune to harass by the support and also are able to survive a lot longer against supports and other melee champions. Champions like Blitzcrank, Thresh and Alistar have had their base damage tuned very carefully around the lower health of marksmen, this is one of the reasons they can't solo lane anymore. Meanwhile, enchanters like Nami, Sona and Soraka have very low base health to make them vulnerable to weaker champions like marksmen. Changing the base stats of marksmen would allow them to more freely go into top, mid and the jungle (more than they already do) while completely destroying the balance of the support role.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZ4yZ55u,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T14:10:18.447+0000) > > You can't do that either. These champions are intended to be in a 2v2 lane. If they have higher health and armor, they become basically immune to harass by the support and also are able to survive a lot longer against supports and other melee champions. > > Champions like Blitzcrank, Thresh and Alistar have had their base damage tuned very carefully around the lower health of marksmen, this is one of the reasons they can't solo lane anymore. Meanwhile, enchanters like Nami, Sona and Soraka have very low base health to make them vulnerable to weaker champions like marksmen. > > Changing the base stats of marksmen would allow them to more freely go into top, mid and the jungle (more than they already do) while completely destroying the balance of the support role. if they are intended to go in a 2v2 lane then there is a de-facto problem with RIOT's intent. the metagame should not be a matter of dictation from riot, it should be a matter of discovery from players, and should have the capacity to be rediscovered rather than remain stagnant. if it turns out the ranged champions become too safe from harass, lifesteal can be nerfed for ranged champions to keep them from sustaining away harass in lane as hard. if it turns out that melee vs range in solo lanes is skewed too much in favor of the ranged champions with these changes (to the point of unplayability) then more dramatic changes can be made, like making it so that ranged auto attacks cannot penetrate through melee minions.
: You can't do that either. These champions are intended to be in a 2v2 lane. If they have higher health and armor, they become basically immune to harass by the support and also are able to survive a lot longer against supports and other melee champions. Champions like Blitzcrank, Thresh and Alistar have had their base damage tuned very carefully around the lower health of marksmen, this is one of the reasons they can't solo lane anymore. Meanwhile, enchanters like Nami, Sona and Soraka have very low base health to make them vulnerable to weaker champions like marksmen. Changing the base stats of marksmen would allow them to more freely go into top, mid and the jungle (more than they already do) while completely destroying the balance of the support role.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZ4yZ55u,comment-id=00120000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-18T14:10:18.447+0000) > > You can't do that either. These champions are intended to be in a 2v2 lane. If they have higher health and armor, they become basically immune to harass by the support and also are able to survive a lot longer against supports and other melee champions. > > Champions like Blitzcrank, Thresh and Alistar have had their base damage tuned very carefully around the lower health of marksmen, this is one of the reasons they can't solo lane anymore. Meanwhile, enchanters like Nami, Sona and Soraka have very low base health to make them vulnerable to weaker champions like marksmen. > > Changing the base stats of marksmen would allow them to more freely go into top, mid and the jungle (more than they already do) while completely destroying the balance of the support role. if they are intended to go in a 2v2 lane then there is a de-facto problem with RIOT's intent. the metagame should not be a matter of dictation from riot, it should be a matter of discovery from players, and should have the capacity to be rediscovered rather than remain stagnant. if it turns out the ranged champions become too safe from harass, lifesteal can be nerfed for ranged champions to keep them from sustaining away harass in lane as hard. if it turns out that melee vs range in solo lanes is skewed too much in favor of the ranged champions with these changes (to the point of unplayability) then more dramatic changes can be made, like making it so that ranged auto attacks cannot penetrate through melee minions.
Cocho (NA)
: I dont quite understand, is he still regaining health? And so this means grevious wound no longer effect him?
> [{quoted}](name=Cocho,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=F87i43id,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-18T07:33:31.657+0000) > > I dont quite understand, is he still regaining health? > > And so this means grevious wound no longer effect him? It would be like nasus, renekton or lulu ult, except it would be over time and generally be a much greater gain. He'd be gaining maximum health and his current health would increase to keep his remaining health at the same proportion that it was before the gain. It isn't technically a heal, so grievous wounds doesn't apply (and neither does spirit visage)
Rioter Comments
: You can't reduce the "ridiculous damage" of champions who have some of the lowest base AD in the game. These champions only have ridiculous damage once they have items.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZ4yZ55u,comment-id=001200000000,timestamp=2017-09-13T22:01:56.035+0000) > > You can't reduce the "ridiculous damage" of champions who have some of the lowest base AD in the game. These champions only have ridiculous damage once they have items. then buff their innate health and resistances to bring them on par with melee champions and nerf critical strike damage for ranged champions from 2x multiplier down to a 1.5x multiplier.
: Listing a bunch of champion's abilities with dumb exaggerations like "better lee sin ult" is not an argument and is just a shitpost. >oh and I have fantastic base damage to bully people in lane lmao. Tristana got shit on by early game champions like Jhin, lucian, and caitlyn. Now that the are no longer super meta she finally has time to shine.
> [{quoted}](name=Marshbouy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VKN5PkoR,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-17T22:15:44.012+0000) > > Listing a bunch of champion's abilities with dumb exaggerations like "better lee sin ult" is not an argument and is just a shitpost. > > lmao. Tristana got shit on by early game champions like Jhin, lucian, and caitlyn. Now that the are no longer super meta she finally has time to shine. lmao keep farming games with tristana kid obvious bias is biased
Escheton (EUW)
: Hey Tristana, I'm Escheton. How are you?
> [{quoted}](name=Escheton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VKN5PkoR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-17T22:10:54.567+0000) > > Hey Tristana, I'm Escheton. How are you? worried riot is going to break up with me because they told me I was special and I believed it, but riot only wanted me for my good looking skin
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: More like what Dota can learn from League and Hots. Dota dying a slow death, while Hots and LoL grow
> [{quoted}](name=Hexs Fortune,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RiBKBpYk,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-15T01:19:54.852+0000) > > More like what Dota can learn from League and Hots. > > Dota dying a slow death, while Hots and LoL grow Icefrog should have left Dota as it was, that massive simplification on how level up is handled sort of ruined it. And the overabundance of invisibility isn't doing it any favors either.
Rioter Comments
: The people on this forum are so misinformed and I don't think any of you have played ADC a day in your life. You people are acting as if ADCs can 1v1 assassins or divers. Assassins are bad at teamfights. They are designed to kill a target as fast as possible and escape. If you people had your way, assassins or divers would be able to dive into the enemy team and kill the ADC while they're surrounded by their teammates and get out alive. That makes no sense at all.
> [{quoted}](name=I will misclick,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EZ4yZ55u,comment-id=0003000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-13T19:05:13.955+0000) > > The people on this forum are so misinformed and I don't think any of you have played ADC a day in your life. You people are acting as if ADCs can 1v1 assassins or divers. Assassins are bad at teamfights. They are designed to kill a target as fast as possible and escape. If you people had your way, assassins or divers would be able to dive into the enemy team and kill the ADC while they're surrounded by their teammates and get out alive. That makes no sense at all. I don't have a problem with assassins not being able to do that to marksmen in a team fight when the marksmen is well protected. Hell I don't even have a problem with assassins being unable to full-bar a marksman when they are alone. I'd be fine if it were a toss up, and assassins were relegated to mostly picking off people from half health. What I DO have a problem with is marksmen being able to do such absurd damage to everything in their range that basically nobody can play around them, so you are FORCED to dive onto them and try to kill them before doing anything else. Its fucking boring doing the same god damn thing over and over. There is no reason they have to do THAT much damage to be effective. I'd rather they be more durable and do less damage so the supports can AFFORD to support someone else for a change, and so marksmen don't feel like they have the whole world on their back-- and especially so other classes can play the game without falling into the same exact pattern of approach again and again.
: > and skillshots that don't deal damage like orianna ball reposition wouldn't be affected either What? Since when does Ori's Q do no damage?
> [{quoted}](name=WhoIsThisDude,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LonVzpHw,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2017-09-13T14:50:16.526+0000) > > What? Since when does Ori's Q do no damage? I thought her ball reposition didn't do any damage? Does it? My bad. If it does then the ball would have to stop right on top of the tank to remain consistent with other abilities.
Eedat (NA)
: ***Hell no.*** "Hey lets give every single tank permanent {{champion:201}} shield" That would be disgustingly broken
> [{quoted}](name=Eedat,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LonVzpHw,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-09-13T14:49:08.526+0000) > > ***Hell no.*** > > "Hey lets give every single tank permanent {{champion:201}} shield" > > That would be disgustingly broken I didn't say it was a passive effect, and I didn't mean to imply that. Obviously it would be far too strong as a passive.
: his kit may be toxic, but if you wanna have fun, play akali into him. burst him down to like 5% health, when he pops ult you pop your shroud and you just stay in it. the vast majority of trynda's damage are in his auto attacks obviously and your shroud lasts longer than his ultimate. he can't pink ward it and he can't target you even if sweeper. just stay in it and make him run away. if he is dumb enough to try to wait you out you will out last his ult and you can just burst him. if he tries to spin away last second just dash after him since you are akali. if he brings ignite to get true sight (likely you can also run cleanse to instantly cleanse his ignite and then shroud and he still can't see you. I'm not sure if its a true counter, but I had fun playing Akali into trynda.
> [{quoted}](name=Charlie Tilts U,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IYhLnHdk,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-09-13T10:00:37.378+0000) > > his kit may be toxic, but if you wanna have fun, play akali into him. burst him down to like 5% health, when he pops ult you pop your shroud and you just stay in it. the vast majority of trynda's damage are in his auto attacks obviously and your shroud lasts longer than his ultimate. he can't pink ward it and he can't target you even if sweeper. just stay in it and make him run away. if he is dumb enough to try to wait you out you will out last his ult and you can just burst him. if he tries to spin away last second just dash after him since you are akali. > > if he brings ignite to get true sight (likely you can also run cleanse to instantly cleanse his ignite and then shroud and he still can't see you. > > I'm not sure if its a true counter, but I had fun playing Akali into trynda. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dm6j6ExmWfI
: Might as well just get a banshee's
> [{quoted}](name=winteriscoming97,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LonVzpHw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-13T13:52:10.851+0000) > > Might as well just get a banshee's Well you can't fully control when banshees triggers, but if it turns out to be that bad we can put a duration on it, like 2 seconds so that it prevents pass through on anything that occurs in that window. Alternatively we could just reduce the cooldown dramatically. I don't really have a feeling for the numbers that would make it balanced, I just think the idea is cool.
Rioter Comments
: only if it's an active with a cooldown
> [{quoted}](name=Mens Hair Club,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LonVzpHw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-13T13:30:12.895+0000) > > only if it's an active with a cooldown yeah of course, it'd be too oppressive as a passive. i was thinking something like a 90 or 120 second cooldown.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: What is the most impressive feat you pulled off on the Rift? [Excluding pentakills]
Meddler (NA)
: Inclination's to got with a kill trigger, rather than a spread one, because that's much more tightly bound to solo lane Brand than it is to support Brand. Agree that would help spice up the E though certainly.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EqJ1zVfQ,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-09-12T15:51:26.179+0000) > > Inclination's to got with a kill trigger, rather than a spread one, because that's much more tightly bound to solo lane Brand than it is to support Brand. Agree that would help spice up the E though certainly. I don't think Brand's big issue is waveclear or mana problems to be honest. I hardly ever find myself going oom on brand when I play him mid. The issue that makes brand a lot weaker than the competition is his reliability. He doesn't have a lot of control over his damage, and most of his stuff can be avoided or outplayed. Often when playing brand the best course of action is to simply not take initiative-- you are better off waiting for the enemy to do commit an action that you can retaliate against because for a brief moment they become predictable when they are aggressive, and that lets you land a spell. While this works as a measure to balance brand's extreme damage output, it does take a way a ton of agency in the laning phase for him. You end up being only as good as the enemy is bad. Its hard to fix this in a way that doesn't break support brand-- but one idea may be to make it so that he can stack his passive on himself-- this would give him a little more control over his damage especially in a solo lane where there aren't two enemy champions to bounce his ult between. He can use W and E for waveclear while stacking himself twice for instance (if he hits himself with both)-- this would make brand stronger against dives in the middle lane, but wouldn't offer him a way to mitigate the natural weakness he has to long range harass (which is fair).
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: > [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fsFk3kT4,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-08T08:12:53.343+0000) > > it actually doesn't hurt him as bad as the old thornmail and i can prove it mathematically if you'd like its alot cheaper though right? you can get it first back doesnt that need to be accounted for?
> [{quoted}](name=Poisonous Berry,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=fsFk3kT4,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2017-09-08T08:14:20.406+0000) > > its alot cheaper though right? you can get it first back doesnt that need to be accounted for? you mean the thornmail component item bramble vest? yeah its cheaper, and the fact that it can be rushed definitely makes it a strong item versus tryndamere. thornmail itself isn't as powerful versus tryndamere as it used to be though. the best way to beat bramble vest as tryndamere is to get a tiamat and shove waves super hard, and just ignore the enemy laner entirely. you can do some chip damage to them with tiamat passive if they stick close to you-- you should just kill the wave, get full fury asap and heal and get out, rinse repeat.
scazzman (NA)
: grevious wounds on thornmail is broken and completely castrates tryndamere mains
it actually doesn't hurt him as bad as the old thornmail and i can prove it mathematically if you'd like
: Lifesteal is fine it's just implemented poorly. That can be fixed. Also, at max stacks your suggestion is 18 HP which is incredibly small and even more worthless than the current model. It would be just fine to start at 5% and have the stacks bring the value to 10%, or 3%, then to 8%. As we have 4.5% on live now and people still don't take them that often as ADC, but some builds for various roles do.
> [{quoted}](name=I am Razgriz,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=EA0AujlR,comment-id=002f0001,timestamp=2017-09-07T15:14:36.312+0000) > > Lifesteal is fine it's just implemented poorly. That can be fixed. Also, at max stacks your suggestion is 18 HP which is incredibly small and even more worthless than the current model. > > It would be just fine to start at 5% and have the stacks bring the value to 10%, or 3%, then to 8%. As we have 4.5% on live now and people still don't take them that often as ADC, but some builds for various roles do. 18 hp is 18% of 100 damage, whereas 5% lifesteal is 5% of 100 damage. It would even out at 360 damage per attack, assuming the same attack speed. Someone who does 360 damage on average per attack will heal for the same health with 18 hp on hit as they would with 5% lifesteal, but someone with 18hp on hit will heal for 18hp regardless of whether they have 360 damage on average per attack-- they could have 180 damage per attack through raw ad, no crit chance, and just pour a ton into attack speed, which raises the amount of healing they receive beyond what someone with 5% lifesteal could attain with the same amount of gold. On top of that, lifesteal's effectiveness is diminished by enemy armor whereas life on hit is not. Attacking someone who has 100 effective armor after all penetration is taken into account will result in your healing per attack being halved if you heal through lifesteal-- if you heal on hit instead, its the same number no matter what. That would raise the break even point against such champions to 720 damage per attack, and remember the on hit person can spend the bulk of their gold on more attack speed oriented items without diminishing their health gain per attack. So between this and that, 18 on hit healing is a lot more than you'd think, especially mid game when the choice between specializing for slow but heavy attacks or quick but light ones is salient and meaningful. Or perhaps to put it differently, 5% lifesteal is a lot less than you might think.
Rioter Comments
: Runes Corner: More Precision Runes
1-5% lifesteal is woefully outclassed by 5-20% attack speed and 3-28% tenacity. lifesteal is probably a bad choice for a rune of this type because of how it adversely affects the jungle and laning phase balance. a better option would be something gated by attack speed, because it would necessitate pushing in order to maximize health gain per second, so it would be less abusive in the lane and would be gated to attack speed oriented junglers rather than being too general. something like 3 hp on hit + 3 per stack would be much more reasonable.
: I'm happy to talk about what else we could do to make veterans feel better (I personally think we should do something unique for vets besides these rewards and the emotes—just not more BE) but in order for us to have that conversation we have to at least be agreed on the basic facts, right?
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=o1hsbxt5,comment-id=001b00040000,timestamp=2017-09-05T16:54:22.736+0000) > > I'm happy to talk about what else we could do to make veterans feel better (I personally think we should do something unique for vets besides these rewards and the emotes—just not more BE) but in order for us to have that conversation we have to at least be agreed on the basic facts, right? replacing something that was a functional advantage with something that is just an aesthetic will never feel like a fair deal, so I doubt skins or emotes will satisfy the players who feel wronged by these changes, regardless of how exclusive they are. the only other thing that would feel fair would be a refund, but as you've said a direct refund is out of the question. I suppose an indirect refund might work. For instance, double the rewards of all quests completed until an amount of value obtained from those quests equal to the value of the runes has been acquired. This gives RIOT a lot of control over what the players receive, feels fair to the players since they can opt out of a quest they don't like, is graduated over an extremely long period of time (years) so it doesn't bankrupt RIOT, and keeps players playing and isn't disruptive. You could also offer "quest doubling" boosts to other players for a limited time or for limited amount of value at a specific BE cost to encourage people to invest their BE plus their time to eke out more value from their BE than they otherwise could. Besides the feeling of commitment would probably cause more people to want to actually complete the quests, which means more players actually playing. And if you add in a few quests that involve playing with friends or a quest to play at least one game a day each day for a week or something... well there you go.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urZ5eggO,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-09-05T10:56:00.123+0000) > > Because the average amount of BE you gain for disenchanting something after scaling it up by 6.5, is around 1900. > > If you currently gain around 100 IP per game (factoring in bonus ip for first win of the day and/or group play) it would take around 19 games to gain an equal value in IP. > > That sounds about right in terms of the number of games it would likely take to level up, but read carefully what was said in the announcement: > Since you’ll be getting so many more shards thanks to the new leveling system (and with other recent changes to honor and events), we’ll tune down the relative value of the essence you get from disenchanting shards of all types—champ shards, skin shards, and ward skin shards. > > 30% is half as much more than 20%, so it will take 50% longer to farm BE for a champ as it would take to farm IP for a champ. This is assuming you even get champion shards in the chest, which isn't guaranteed-- and that the XP required to level up doesn't increase at higher levels, which also isn't guaranteed. It could very well be much more than 50%. They arent scaling it up 6.5 forever though just your current BE coming into preseason. We just dont know the loot form the chest to determine if were going to gain less. > [{quoted}](name=Riot Cactopus,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=8h0YpEWl,comment-id=0015000600010001000000000001,timestamp=2017-09-05T01:08:13.547+0000) > > XP every match, chests with champ shards (which can be turned into lots of BE) on level-up. From what the reds have said in the boards it makes it seem like theyre going to be a special champion shards that reward more BE for disenchanting them.
> [{quoted}](name=Ironfield,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urZ5eggO,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2017-09-05T11:06:31.827+0000) > > They arent scaling it up 6.5 forever though just your current BE coming into preseason. > We just dont know the loot form the chest to determine if were going to gain less. they actually are going to scale up BE by 6.5 across the board, not just the BE that you currently have.
: That is quite the non sense. You shouldn't even be talking about the veteran shop if you still don't have all the champions. It is for those players who have all champs and don't have anything to spend it on. I have 60k IP and nearly all champs, and i really have nothing to spend more.
> [{quoted}](name=AlQaeda Taliban,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urZ5eggO,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-05T11:04:08.254+0000) > > That is quite the non sense. You shouldn't even be talking about the veteran shop if you still don't have all the champions. It is for those players who have all champs and don't have anything to spend it on. I have 60k IP and nearly all champs, and i really have nothing to spend more. I'm saying it would be unwise for anyone to buy a bunch of veteran shop stuff and not leave enough BE in their account to buy champions as they come out, since they probably won't be earning enough BE rapidly enough to buy those champions unless they play like 6-8 games a day.
: Ok, so i looked. No blue essence after game. But the question becomes..... rate at leveling? Me personally i only need 3 champ shards to buy any new champion. Level 30 will become a very low level now im sure. Curious how they will change up ranked then. In theory, we will be able to get more blue essence than we did before..... same with more chances for skins. Oh btw, those free skins basically from the honor capsules? Yeah, that will lose them more money than they would ever make on champions.
> [{quoted}](name=Wolfcub2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urZ5eggO,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-05T10:56:32.261+0000) > > Ok, so i looked. No blue essence after game. But the question becomes..... rate at leveling? Me personally i only need 3 champ shards to buy any new champion. Level 30 will become a very low level now im sure. Curious how they will change up ranked then. > > In theory, we will be able to get more blue essence than we did before..... same with more chances for skins. > > Oh btw, those free skins basically from the honor capsules? Yeah, that will lose them more money than they would ever make on champions. it will take 5 instead of 3 now, and the amount of XP required to level up to earn a capsule isn't guaranteed to remain constant as you progress through the levels.
: But we dont know the rate in which we will level up and what we will be earning from each box. How can you conclude that we will be earning less?
> [{quoted}](name=Ironfield,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=urZ5eggO,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-09-05T10:45:01.646+0000) > > But we dont know the rate in which we will level up and what we will be earning from each box. How can you conclude that we will be earning less? Because the average amount of BE you gain for disenchanting something after scaling it up by 6.5, is around 1900. If you currently gain around 100 IP per game (factoring in bonus ip for first win of the day and/or group play) it would take around 19 games to gain an equal value in IP. That sounds about right in terms of the number of games it would likely take to level up, but read carefully what was said in the announcement: > #LOOT REBALANCING Since you’ll be getting so many more shards thanks to the new leveling system (and with other recent changes to honor and events), we’ll tune down the relative value of the essence you get from disenchanting shards of all types—champ shards, skin shards, and ward skin shards. >In the current system, for example, disenchanting a champ shard will get you about a third of the BE you need to buy a champ at that shard’s tier; In the new system it’ll get you 20% of the way there 30% is half as much more than 20%, so it will take 50% longer to farm BE for a champ as it would take to farm IP for a champ. This is assuming you even get champion shards in the chest, which isn't guaranteed-- and that the XP required to level up doesn't increase at higher levels, which also isn't guaranteed. It could very well be much more than 50%.
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