: Cheap Strat
SatomiKun (EUW)
: I side with Darius here. "Better die standing than live on your knees"!
> [{quoted}](name=SatomiKun,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=IztEfYxY,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2018-06-23T06:05:56.587+0000) > > I side with Darius here. > "Better die standing than live on your knees"! in darius world you would die on all fours, while getting pounded in the ass by someone, and its ok just because hes stronger than you. good luck with that.
ali afri (EUW)
: YOU DID IT RIOT
whatever problems this game has right now, none of it is as bad as the ardent meta.
Anatera (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-23T09:05:43.904+0000) > > the old split customization system was weird and outdated. > > im not saying, that the new rune system is perfect, or that they couldnt have replaced runes and masteries with something better, but it makes sense that they got rid of the two separate systems in favour of a single one. Oh of course, combining the two systems into one, when the new one has nothing in common with either of the two outside of keystones. I have no problem with them combining the two, but they went too far with this one.
> [{quoted}](name=Anatera,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yEOAAdtA,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2018-06-23T09:19:08.954+0000) > > Oh of course, combining the two systems into one, when the new one has nothing in common with either of the two outside of keystones. i dont think thats entirely true either. the current rune system is a smaller mastery system. the flat stat bonuses you get from the pathes are similar to what you got out of the old rune system. im not saying its great. for example i dont really like how those flat stat bonuses are bound to rune pathes, and you cant take the precision path without being forced to invest into attack speed for example. instead i would have preferred a 7th neutral rune slot that lets you allow to chose a flat stat bonus to your champion. anything between ad/ap, health, 10% cdr, attack speed, 3% movement speed and possible other stats. also, the new system is in my opinion too small to support all champions equally. some of them heavily synergize with certain champion kits, while other champions struggle to find keystone runes that fit them. we probably need 6 available runes in every single slot, until all champions benefit from the system somewhat equally.
Anatera (NA)
: Getting rid of runes and masteries was possibly the stupidest choice Riot ever made.
the old split customization system was weird and outdated. im not saying, that the new rune system is perfect, or that they couldnt have replaced runes and masteries with something better, but it makes sense that they got rid of the two separate systems in favour of a single one.
daynk (NA)
: wtf are you talking about his mobility is crazy. you press one button and you get a massive movement speed buff. then when you basic attack you silence.
> [{quoted}](name=daynk,realm=NA,application-id=LqLKtMpN,discussion-id=YvFQqN8i,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T19:32:26.774+0000) > > wtf are you talking about his mobility is crazy. you press one button and you get a massive movement speed buff. then when you basic attack you silence. 30% isnt a lot even for a movement speed buff. almost every single melee champion (and a lot of ranged champions) in this game has some form of mobility tool, and most of them are faster than him.
Sasogwa (EUW)
: I {{champion:75}} love{{champion:75}} stacking {{champion:75}}
> [{quoted}](name=Sasogwa,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NTNK1YAs,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-22T13:18:24.963+0000) > > I {{champion:75}} love{{champion:75}} stacking {{champion:75}} {{champion:64}} "help me man, the enemy keeps invading and killing me!" {{champion:75}} "stacks are more important than your life."
: I think attack speed on his E would be great but really would you build crit chance anyways? I think it would be better to go stormrazor and then all lethality items. Crit chance kinda feels like a noob trap.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dJjF3vok,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-06-22T14:51:17.839+0000) > > I think attack speed on his E would be great but really would you build crit chance anyways? I think it would be better to go stormrazor and then all lethality items. Crit chance kinda feels like a noob trap. before the recent changes, infinity edge was one of garens strongest offensive items. its a good build when you want sustained damage against all targets, while lethality is good to burst squishies.
: When Garen was designed there were more options for crit such as http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Atma's_Impaler Also, Youmuu's Ghostblade used to have crit and he could use it for movement speed. So in the past, there were actually some ways to get crit for him without completely troll building. They really should give him an update and get rid of that crit chance. The best way to build him for damage is full lethality now so there's no point to the crit on his kit anymore. Attack speed on his spin would be useful because it would work with items like Trinity Force and Stormrazor.
> [{quoted}](name=Khristophoros,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dJjF3vok,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-22T12:57:34.287+0000) > > They really should give him an update and get rid of that crit chance. i disagree. they should add an attack speed scaling to his e and give him additional spins for building bonus attack speed. {{item:3046}} wouldnt actually be a bad item on him, if the attack speed wasnt a shitty stat for garen. his crit scaling is one of the things that make garen unique as a juggernaut, it increases his build diversity and should be embraced. i wish theyd make {{item:3031}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3071}} {{item:3742}} {{item:3053}} build or {{item:3095}} as a single crit item as viable as his regular bruiser builds.
: Would you say that Garen's Q animation has affected your Riven match ups? I remember a time when Garen was the hard counter to her. Now it seems more 50/50. What do you think?
> [{quoted}](name=Megabite87,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3btu70M,comment-id=0019000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-22T13:38:22.317+0000) > > Would you say that Garen's Q animation has affected your Riven match ups? I remember a time when Garen was the hard counter to her. Now it seems more 50/50. What do you think? yes, 100%. riven can react to his q by using her e during decisive strikes animation. the attack will still connect, but the damage will be absorbed by her shield and she gains distance for you not to be able to follow up with your spin. i honestly think this would be fine, if it was just the lane phase where your opponent doesnt have a choice than to deal with you. if it provides a little bit counterplay for garens opponents in lane 1v1's, fine. but the effects of the slow animation get worse the longer the game goes on. he shouldnt be impacted by this in larger skirmishes and teamfights, where its already hard enough for him to reach his priority targets. thats why i want them to make the animation speed scale up with level. it keeps garen managable in lane, but it doesnt fuck him over later on.
Alex Luu (NA)
: Anyone wish there were more attack speed+tanky stat(s) of some kind items?
garen doesnt want attack speed. hed rather avoid it. its not horrible, since he can use it like 50% of the time during a fight, but its not worth aiming for. you would never buy an item on garen because it has attack speed. its more that if you want an item for a different reason, and it happens to have attack speed, you put up with it. {{item:3046}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3095}} the only exception was the original ghostblade, because it had a very high, windowed attack speed active that you would hit between spin cooldowns. so you were always guaranteed to get 100% value out of the stat.
: Building offensive items shouldn't give you defense. Likewise, building defensive items shouldn't give you offense.
> [{quoted}](name=Warlord Rhinark,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UREwTmpv,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-06-22T11:05:20.340+0000) > > Building offensive items shouldn't give you defense. > > Likewise, building defensive items shouldn't give you offense. pretty narrow minded point of view. youre thinking too much about the concept instead of what the item provides in stats at the end. thats why a lot of people didnt understand that atmas was fine in concept, and the only reason it was op for a while was because its price was way too cheap. it was a matter of gold effectiveness, and not the conceptual idea of the health scaling ad bonus. there is no difference in building one item that gives you 1000 health and one item that gives you 100 ad, or two items that give you 500 health and 50 ad each. the only difference is in the build pathes being more comfortable for fighters.
Akumu (NA)
: Why the fuck is damage like this even possible?
21 minutes into the game, he has two completed items and a tiamat. something tells me, he got fed before he even had his ult.
: On this subject of Garen's Q: A: Alpha strike also has a cast time that almost matches the Garen Q cast time. A Yi would have to notice the Garen Q animation starting, press alpha, and hope to be in alpha before the Q lands. B: Garen's Q only goes on CD after a connected hit or the countdown timer wares off. If a Yi alphas the Garen Q, then Garen's next auto attack (which will happen instantly when Yi comes out of alpha unless the Garen presses "S") will still hit Yi. C: Keep in mind that as a Garen vs a Yi, you should just AA>Spin on him then use Q to stop the potential of Meditate before ulting him. If you specifically try to keep him from alpha striking, then you are forgetting that the majority of Yi's damage is Auto Attack based and leaves him with the potential to Meditate the Garen Ult. Also, yeah, I remember the old Garen Q animation. He's getting older, cut him some slack! :)
> [{quoted}](name=Megabite87,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O3btu70M,comment-id=00190000,timestamp=2018-06-22T03:32:16.675+0000) > > On this subject of Garen's Q: > > A: Alpha strike also has a cast time that almost matches the Garen Q cast time. A Yi would have to notice the Garen Q animation starting, press alpha, > and hope to be in alpha before the Q lands. > > B: Garen's Q only goes on CD after a connected hit or the countdown timer wares off. If a Yi alphas the Garen Q, then Garen's next auto attack (which will happen instantly when Yi comes out of alpha unless the Garen presses "S") will still hit Yi. > > C: Keep in mind that as a Garen vs a Yi, you should just AA>Spin on him then use Q to stop the potential of Meditate before ulting him. If you specifically try to keep him from alpha striking, then you are forgetting that the majority of Yi's damage is Auto Attack based and leaves him with the potential to Meditate the Garen Ult. > > Also, yeah, I remember the old Garen Q animation. He's getting older, cut him some slack! :) alpha itself has an animation time, but the untargetability window happens almost instantly after the cast, and interrupts the decisive strike animation. so it doesnt matter that yis q takes like half a second, when the portion that interrupts garens q is on the front end of alpha strikes animation. right now, if you open with a spin on yi with conqueror, rageblade and bloodrazor, hes going to litterally 100 to 0 you before the spin is even half through. you wont win a damage race with a spin vs. yi auto attacks. your only chance is to q him and burst him in the 1.5 seconds before the silence runs out and he can activate meditate in the first place. i just want them to make garens q speed scale up with his champion level, so i can actually use it to interrupt shit. a lot of champion abilities are executed so much faster in comparison, that if the player is halfway decent, they always manage to get them off before decisive strike has a chance to connect. lets say an ally gets engaged on by zed. decisive strike is so slow, that zed usually gets his ult off reliably before garens q can stop it, even if you stand next to your ally and immediately attack zed when he gets into your auto range. its fucking frustrating and in my opinion one of the largest and most underestimated factors that holds his viability at high mmr back. similar to darius who crashed by 4% in winrate back when his pull was buggy and couldnt interrupt enemy dashes anymore, garens q animation being able to connect or not connect against certain enemy abilities is a sublte factor that makes a gigantic difference.
: If they ever give darius and garen visual upgrades...
please no more visual updates for garen. the one he got in season 3 was probably the only VU to date that nerfed the champion. they took his snappy q animation and turned it into one of the slowest, shittiest animation cancels in the game. it used to be as fast as leonas q, and afterwards its hot garbage. ive been trying to get riot to do something about it for ages. you cant even interrupt a lot of mobility spells or abilities when youre already right next to the target, because the enemy spells are usually instant and go off before your q has any chance at all to connect, even when theyre cast after your q started the animation. there is little in this game more frustrating than trying to stop a zed from ulting your ally, and his ult still going off because your q is too slow to stop it. if theyd do another VU, they would probably find another animation to fuck up.
: How to fight Taric mid-Yi jungle?
the yi/taric strategy relies on alternating between farming the jungle, and minion waves on midlane to funnel two gold and xp streams into the yi. if you want to beat it, you simply make sure that there isnt ever a minion wave for the yi to pick up, and they basically end up gaining nothing but regular jungle farm, and lose **all the farm** in mid. you do this by locking in a lane freeze infront of your turret. if you do this properly, then the enemy minions will kill your own minions as fast as they arrive, which means the enemies lose all that farm. mid laners are used to hard shoving minions into the enemy turret to give themselves room to roam. so this lane freeze playstile is probably not something theyre used to. at least this should work on paper. havent tried it myself. but it seems like the most logical approach. id probably pick someone like {{champion:112}} who can control an entire enemy minion wave by stunning it outside his own turret, and has good enough waveclear to manipulate the waves, and their position properly.
: A long, comprehensive list of Yi counterplay.
not that i generally disagree, but you can take {{champion:86}} off the list. the decisive strike animation is so slow and telegraphed, that yi can alpha to interrupt it by going untargetable, then come out of alpha and get enough auto attacks in to have it available again and cast it before the second attempt at decisive strikes animation has a chance to connect. thats not even exaggeration. its part of the reason why i fucking hate how slow the animation is. garens visual update was probably the only one to date, that nerfed the champion. because pre VU in season 3, garens q was practically instant.
: I’m regretfully siding with Darius on this one. The only reason I’m regretting it is because Garen looks better visually, and I’m a cat person, so it feels like betrayal going against the Lion God. If only he didn’t sound like a priiiiick
> [{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:25:08.872+0000) > > I’m regretfully siding with Darius on this one. The only reason I’m regretting it is because Garen looks better visually, and I’m a cat person, so it feels like betrayal going against the Lion God. > > If only he didn’t sound like a priiiiick i think the skin is still worth it. and in the end youre basically siding with one of them for the icon. siding with darius wont change the skin or garens voice lines. but they need to make some tweaks imo. his voice over is basically him demanding of everyone that they worship him, but not why they should. thats really the problem. instead of "worship me alone", it should be "worshipe me, for i alone am the shield that protects my people" or something like that. still pretty self righteous, but with purpose.
: So, if Marksmen are still totally viable, then why not play them mid/top/jungle?
if bruisers are overpowering adc, then why dont you just take garen bot lane? champion diversity in one lane, and individual champion viability in different lanes are two separate issues. a champion can be viable in a lane with diverse picks, and not be viable in a different lane at the same time.
: The point is is that neither of them are good. The same was true for Order vs Chaos. Pure Order is just as bad as Chaos. On Garen's side is safety and protection. However, you lose your free will, forced to obey a demigod that can smite you into dust. On Darius's is free will, choice, independence. But you will probably die from the wars caused by his rampage before you can truly enjoy those things.
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:38:13.020+0000) > > On Darius's is free will, choice, independence. But you will probably die from the wars caused by his rampage before you can truly enjoy those things. its more than that. darius doesnt want the war to eventually end. he wants the world in a perpetual state of war, where the strong take whatever they want and the weak perish. i feel like on garens side of the voice lines they put a lot of focus on the fact that he demands everyone to worship him, without properly explaining why. every voice line he has basically makes it clear that he demands people to worship him without making his motivation clear enough. and on darius side they didnt make it clear enough that the world he wants probably sucks for the majority of people aswell. its not just freedom he wants, its never ending bloodshed and anarchy.
: The point is is that neither of them are good. The same was true for Order vs Chaos. Pure Order is just as bad as Chaos. On Garen's side is safety and protection. However, you lose your free will, forced to obey a demigod that can smite you into dust. On Darius's is free will, choice, independence. But you will probably die from the wars caused by his rampage before you can truly enjoy those things.
> [{quoted}](name= Król Wilk Sam,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:38:13.020+0000) > > The point is is that neither of them are good. The same was true for Order vs Chaos. i know. but riot failed to convey this properly. both sides are supposed to have positives and negatives. but they made garens negatives too obvious by making pretty much every interaction he has towards other champions negative, and his positives not obvious enough. you can see a lot of people already siding with darius just because of **garens** voice lines (and not because of darius himself), when both should be appealing options. i have not seen a single person siding with garen, just because of darius voice lines. for me, this is a pretty clear indicator that garens voice lines paint too much of a negative picture, when both should be more of in a grey area.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:27:23.890+0000) > > instead, every line they made is basically "you serve me, you serve me, everybody serves me". Yup. Which is why I'm going with Darius. Sorry about your luck there, must suck to have a champion you're willing to name yourself after turn out like that in an event.
> [{quoted}](name=DrCyanide,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:35:15.507+0000) > > Yup. Which is why I'm going with Darius. > > Sorry about your luck there, must suck to have a champion you're willing to name yourself after turn out like that in an event. i mean its still not too late for riot to make a couple minor changes like that. even if they dont manage to do it in time for the event, maybe there is something that can still be done anyways.
: I’m regretfully siding with Darius on this one. The only reason I’m regretting it is because Garen looks better visually, and I’m a cat person, so it feels like betrayal going against the Lion God. If only he didn’t sound like a priiiiick
> [{quoted}](name=Quiet Dude,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=EugnWIMw,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-21T19:25:08.872+0000) > > I’m regretfully siding with Darius on this one. The only reasoning I’m regretting it is because Garen looks better visually, and I’m a cat person, so it feels like betrayal going against the Lion God. > > If only he didn’t sound like a priiiiick i feel like they should redo some of garens voice lines before his release or add some more positive ones. ive seen a lot of people say they want to side with darius just because of garens voice lines, which is really an indicator that riot missed the mark. if people decide to go with darius not because of darius, but because of garens voice lines, then there is clearly something wrong with the VO. i hate how almost every interaction to other champions, including allies is mostly negative. his whole attitude could show more self responsibility on his part, and that the gods serve the mortals as protectors, just as the mortals serve the gods. but thats not a side thats really even shown of him. instead, every line they made is basically "you serve me, you serve me, everybody serves me". he should have some lines about him regarding himself as a servant and protector to his people just as he expects them to serve him.
Rioter Comments
: Strange thing is, if you listen to the voice lines and interactions for the skins, it almost seems like Garen is the evil tyrant, and Darius is just trying to be free. Just what I got from it anyways. White armor and Light powers do not a benevolent ruler make.
> [{quoted}](name=ZaxrielCaine,realm=NA,application-id=Ag8jgd8Q,discussion-id=viglMNaa,comment-id=00000002,timestamp=2018-06-20T21:07:28.973+0000) > > Strange thing is, if you listen to the voice lines and interactions for the skins, it almost seems like Garen is the evil tyrant, and Darius is just trying to be free. Just what I got from it anyways. White armor and Light powers do not a benevolent ruler make. this is why garens voice lines on the skin sucks ass. because people dont understand that there is no good guy on these skins. darius sure as hell isnt one. garen wants peace, but enforce it under his uncontested rule. darius wants to plummet the world into chaos and endless war where the strong prey on the weak. even if he manages to kill garen, he doesnt want the war to end. he wants to tear civilization down and have the world in a perpetual state of chaos and bloodshed. if you ask me, when it comes to the individual, garen is still the better choice out of the two. you have to worship him, but youre protected and wont die, because someone wants the piece of land youre living on. but the event is supposed to be about order vs. chaos and not good and evil. people will just go for darius because hes either the stronger champion, or riot failed in making both seem like equally appealing/disappealing choices.
Kektu (NA)
: Please riot its for people safety PLEASE NERF OR DELETE GAREN
garens ult range is 400 units. the reason you got smited is, because like every ability in the game that isnt a channel, the ult still finishes even when you flash out of range, when garen already started the cast while you were still in range.
: A Garen REWORK that satasfies most players in the Game
the only thing kit wise i think they could change is to replace his passive literally by grasp of the undying without the windup. make it 2% of his max health in damage, and 4% of his missing health healing on a 3 second cooldown (so a full spin fits between two procs). have the cooldown reset and some healing provided on takedowns against minions and monsters, so he still has some lane sustain, and can regain some health by csing. this would make his passive overall more versatile and usable in and out of combat.
: How gameplay boards works:
how about just not going overboard with the snowball mechanics? bringing solo carry potential back is one thing, but its not the only thing theyve done. nobody asked them to gut turret health, barons damage, and increase turret bounty on top of the other changes. theyre literally a desperate attempt to get pro teams to fight each other, so games are more interesting to watch, instead of stalling out games. riot still hasnt understood after 7 years, that the more risky and snowbally you make the game, the less inclined are pros to take risks, and rather play passive. simply because one mistep could end a game and impact your carreer. the less bursty and punishing individual fights are, the more inclined are pro teams to contest each others objectives. riot still thinks that the more and more value theyre putting in objectives like baron, turrets and other shit fixes their pro games, while theyre getting the opposite effect of what they want to do. both teams are just dancing around each other for 40 minutes, until they are 100% sure they are going to win the next fight. you cant even blame them for this. making objectives more "rewarding to take" makes them also more risky to lose.
: Eternum Skins looking Darkin like
riot likes to reuse color schemes. look at project fiora and the new darius skin. they have the same pink accents/dark purple armor/white hair color scheme going.
Reziztor (NA)
: God King Darius or God King Garen
clearly garen. the effects on darius skin are nice, but the overall look and the cobalt blue particle effects on garens skin are just too good.
: The Juggernaut Club: Part 53
: when the fuck did Kai'sa become an early game bully if she outscales every fucking adc?
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9s6WrAZT,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T19:51:56.750+0000) > > when the fuck did Kai'sa become an early game bully if she outscales every fucking adc? from what ive seen, her level 3 power spike allows her to blow up a good part of the regular bot lane roster. she can apparanty bully hard, and still scales. hence why the champion is kindof bullshit.
Streep (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9s6WrAZT,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-20T17:24:38.152+0000) > > adc feel "weak" because they have been overpowered previously and are balanced now. > > the game was bot lane loses, your team loses. now its not anymore. > > the scaling issues of crit adc can be foxed by not making games only last 23 minutes on average. ADC's as a whole have been overpowered, YES. But there is no way you can possibly say the class is balanced right, when an overwhelming amount of the ADC's have below a 50% winrate. I would like to know, how do you think they are balanced right now?
> [{quoted}](name=Streep,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9s6WrAZT,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-06-20T17:28:37.482+0000) > > ADC's as a whole have been overpowered, YES. But there is no way you can possibly say the class is balanced right, when an overwhelming amount of the ADC's have below a 50% winrate. I would like to know, how do you think they are balanced right now? the class isnt balanced among themselves, but theyre balanced towards the rest of the game. an overwhelming amount of adc have less than 50% winrate, because they get dumpstered by the remaining adc in lane. look at it like this. you have two groups of adc 1.) early game lane bullies {{champion:236}} {{champion:145}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:21}} 2.) lategame scaling crit adc who outscale them but are weaker early previously because of cheap ass itemization and high burst through crit builds, crit adc power spiked around midgame around the same time as these lane bullies. that doesnt mean that power spike was healthy or balanced. of course in a snowbally as shit meta where games always end around 23 to 27 minutes, the crit adc will never scale. you fix that by increasing average game times and give them on average to ~35 minutes and more of a chance to hit their powerspikes around 25 to 30 minutes. maybe tune down some of those lane bullies and shift their power spikes also more into lategame. but what riot is doing right now, reacting with knee jerk buffs to infinity edge and marksmen kits is a horrible decision imo. because as soon as game times increase again, and their saling is more guaranteed than it is now, crit adc are going back to being busted.
Streep (NA)
: The Issue with the Crit Item changes - and ways to fix them!
adc feel "weak" because they have been overpowered previously and are balanced now. the game was bot lane loses, your team loses. now its not anymore. the scaling issues of crit adc can be fixed by not making games only last 23 minutes on average.
: Creep aggro is antifun and frankly extremely toxic
fuck no. without minion aggro, ranged champions would literally be allowed to do whatever the hell they wanted. especially as a melee champion, if youre able to quickly waveclear, and stack up your own minion waves, you can deny your opponent free poke onto you. minion aggro is a mechanic that you can play around like any other in the game. the general rule is not to try and fight your opponent in a large enemy minion wave, and utilize your own minion waves to your advantage in trades.
: THANK YOU RIOT. for creating this cancer meta.
i only played once against this strategy so far by the way. once we won, once my mid laner got crushed. i think you can beat it easily by locking in a lane freeze. something mid laners usually dont do. theyre used to poke wars, and hard shoving their lane so they can roam. if you lock in a freeze infront of your turret, while the yi/taric duo jungles, theyre effectively losing gold and xp, since their minions always kill your minions as fast as they arrive. so there is never really a wave for them to come mid for and pick it up. they effectively end up just getting the jungle gold and xp. you just have to have a way of preventing them from getting close to your wave and pushing theirs into your turret to bounce it off. someone who can stun an entire minion wave to forcefully freeze it outside of his turret might be able to pull it off. veigar with his e, or viktor with his w could work.
: > [{quoted}](name=Snapp2Kill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXfZUKAB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-16T20:57:38.172+0000) > > the cheese strat has absolutely nothing to do with the meta why not? this patch yi is pretty broken so why wouldnt be a part of it?
> [{quoted}](name=Numbah 9 Large,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AXfZUKAB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-06-16T20:59:19.353+0000) > > why not? this patch yi is pretty broken so why wouldnt be a part of it? because it has nothing to do with yi individually. you could exchange him for some other champion who snowballs through a fight, and has a decent early game clear, and you would probably end up with the same result. there is also a karthus/nunu cheese going around, abusing the same cheese. and you cant really call karthus op at the moment. however, when hes level 9 while your team is level 6 on average because of the same strat, hes going to carry his team just as hard as that yi.
: Laughts in zilean veigar Veigar uses cage and zilean throws 2 bombs in
> [{quoted}](name=RaikoPlays,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AkoZ8Ur4,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-06-19T22:22:15.070+0000) > > Laughts in zilean veigar > > Veigar uses cage and zilean throws 2 bombs in that sounds actually fun. i remember the old zilean/yorick comp. yorick summons a ghoul, zilean puts a bomb on it. watch the bombed ghoul chase down the enemy adc and laugh.
: It's part of his personality. A lot of GKG's interactions are superficial -- he's yelling at other gods, anything with godlike power, humans with the word god in their name. Darius on the other hand has specific interactions with his lane matchups, because he considers those actual threats worth his attention. That's why Garen has general item lines -- everything is an artifact, everything is a relic of his holiness. In his eyes, anything he touches is instantly a vessel of his power worthy of song and legend. Darius, meanwhile, has only two interactions: black cleaver, which is literally his own axe (used to kill kings/gods), and titanic hydra, which mows down crowds of lesser soldiers. Nothing else remotely matters to him.
> [{quoted}](name=Carnival Knights,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8yv68JE3,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-14T20:26:11.716+0000) > > It's part of his personality. A lot of GKG's interactions are superficial -- he's yelling at other gods, anything with godlike power, humans with the word god in their name. Darius on the other hand has specific interactions with his lane matchups, because he considers those actual threats worth his attention. That's why Garen has general item lines -- everything is an artifact, everything is a relic of his holiness. In his eyes, anything he touches is instantly a vessel of his power worthy of song and legend. > > Darius, meanwhile, has only two interactions: black cleaver, which is literally his own axe (used to kill kings/gods), and titanic hydra, which mows down crowds of lesser soldiers. Nothing else remotely matters to him. by the way, i know that its too late to ask for this now, but i also think in addition to special item voice lines, and some lines when darius ultimate misses to kill him, garen should have had some extra voice lines when parrying enemy cc with his w.
: The God King Garen and Darius statues should swap lanes
i found riots true intention with the summoners rift accents. we were all wrong. they dont want us to play top or bot lane. they want us to go darius vs. garen mid lane. https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-iASnDJypWEs/Wyl-VhuB7fI/AAAAAAABBu0/TQaXmWVDAIYB655p4LmCoLxNhAZ_xODiwCEwYBhgL/s1600/sraccent2.jpg
: The God King Garen and Darius statues should swap lanes
also, garen is pointing into the wrong direction. if blue is demacia, and red is noxus, that is. either way, youd think they would point in opposite directions, leading their teams against each other.
123113123 (EUW)
: God King Garen Should have a real cape
i like the cape. dont know why so many people are unhappy about it. its supposed to resemble wings, similar to rivens skin. im a bit more disappointed that he doesnt have the following: - special item interactions (darius has one for cleaver, garen could have had one for randuins or sunfire cape) - special voicelines when blocking cc with his w parry - special interaction with darius when noxian guillotine misses to kill (darius has lines for when he survives garens ult)
Jikker (NA)
: Garen is a support though
> [{quoted}](name=Jikker,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bu6fEeAf,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-19T23:56:26.127+0000) > > Garen is a support though dank.
Besteau (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GZ3IKYRs,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-06-19T13:53:50.646+0000) > > yay, lets be edgy so we can have everything destroy itself in anarchy, and the world ruled by warlords who enslave the weak. because thats gonna be better. I picked team Darius cause he's pretty hot.
> [{quoted}](name=Besteau,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GZ3IKYRs,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-19T23:24:06.827+0000) > > I picked team Darius cause he's pretty hot. nah.
: Yes the AP item changes helped. The dependency on Rylais/ Liandry's is kinda annoying. he offers nothing when behind. Still Feast or Famine ( I would argue that a fed Morde has less agency over the game than A lot of other Champions) Entire subclasses of champions counter him in lane: Artillery mages, Area Control Mages, Marksmen ( 46-47 winrate for 2 years then they get nerfed he's up to 50% the same patch. Hmmmmmm) And has Nothing worthwhile bringing to ANY team comp that another Champion doesn't DO better. Not only that it's actually super easy for the enemy team to Counter build vs Your Damage ( Adaptive helm) and CounterBuild your in combat Sustain. Meanwhile you can't Counter build thier Burst. Steraks is a Joke if you do Build it and Build into that Garbage Fucking Shield you will still get Burst through the shield. Yes he needs a Rework He STILL losses at Champion select
> [{quoted}](name=Mordepool,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yjcKyx0i,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-19T23:17:20.355+0000) > > Yes the AP item changes helped. The dependency on Rylais/ Liandry's is kinda annoying. > > he offers nothing when behind. > > Still Feast or Famine ( I would argue that a fed Morde has less agency over the game than A lot of other Champions) > > Entire subclasses of champions counter him in lane: Artillery mages, Area Control Mages, Marksmen ( 46-47 winrate for 2 years then they get nerfed he's up to 50% the same patch. Hmmmmmm) > > And has Nothing worthwhile bringing to ANY team comp that another Champion doesn't DO better. > > Not only that it's actually super easy for the enemy team to Counter build vs Your Damage ( Adaptive helm) and CounterBuild your in combat Sustain. Meanwhile you can't Counter build thier Burst. Steraks is a Joke if you do Build it and Build into that Garbage Fucking Shield you will still get Burst through the shield. > > > Yes he needs a Rework > > He STILL losses at Champion select well then. gonna believe you. i just had one game where i got ahead and had a lot of fun with him.
: I think he needs a fix more than anything. He has more bugs than Yandere simulator.
> [{quoted}](name=OniZetsu666,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yjcKyx0i,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-06-19T22:34:06.305+0000) > > I think he needs a fix more than anything. He has more bugs than Yandere simulator. lol, yea. riot really needs to step up their game when it comes to bug fixes. garen still cancels his most recent movement command, when his spin ends or is cancelled. i dont understand how shit like this can be around for more than one patch cycle. otherwise imo morde would be fine with a VU to fit his look more with the other shadow isles champions.
Rioter Comments
: It was explained a while back that the skins team doesn't have a quota to fill, and doesn't typically go around trying to make sure every champ has a skin. What they do is think about cool ideas and then turn them into skins. This is why we can have something like Lux getting three good skins in a row, while other champions like Zac take forever. It's a philosophy that makes sense if you realize it's there, but doesn't necessarily feel great for players who enjoy the champions that are not being focused on. If they don't have an idea for a skin for Kled or Kayn then they don't make a skin for Kled or Kayn.
> [{quoted}](name=redniwediS,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=OdOKfEs3,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-19T18:07:03.186+0000) > > It was explained a while back that the skins team doesn't have a quota to fill, and doesn't typically go around trying to make sure every champ has a skin. > > What they do is think about cool ideas and then turn them into skins. This is why we can have something like Lux getting three good skins in a row, while other champions like Zac take forever. It's a philosophy that makes sense if you realize it's there, but doesn't necessarily feel great for players who enjoy the champions that are not being focused on. > > If they don't have an idea for a skin for Kled or Kayn then they don't make a skin for Kled or Kayn. its also about efford neccessary to make those skins. champions like zac, kled, yorick, azir etc are more difficult to make skins for, because they either have complicated or multiple models (like yorick himself, his ghouls and his maiden), that would have to be reskinned. in comparison to that, lux is very easy to do.
: Even at their worst they weren't as bad as the worst marksmen though. You do not repair a 45% winrate without a buff, a meta shift can only do so much. And still, you expect people with 46% winrate champs to not ask for buffs? If it was your main you would as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal2121,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nqmMKgUH,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2018-06-19T17:43:00.321+0000) > > Even at their worst they weren't as bad as the worst marksmen though. You do not repair a 45% winrate without a buff, a meta shift can only do so much. And still, you expect people with 46% winrate champs to not ask for buffs? If it was your main you would as well. lmao, they were really terrible. i dont know if youve played those champions, but at the time of their buffs they were straight up garbage. in the same spot as lategame scaling marksmen are now. because there was no lategame.
: When only 4/17 ADC's have a +50% winrate in their one and only role you're looking at a class that is easily the the worst in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=Eternal2121,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nqmMKgUH,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-19T17:38:09.121+0000) > > When only 4/17 ADC's have a +50% winrate in their one and only role you're looking at a class that is easily the the worst in the game. those 4 early game marksmen are mostly responsible for those other marksmen having a below 50% winrate, yes. and when games last 23 minutes at high mmr on **average**, then only those 4 early game marksmen will be meta, while the lategame scaling marksmen arent. there is no lategame in 23 minute games. this is really the issue.
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Critmaster Garen

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