Anu3isII (EUNE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-18T02:04:29.217+0000) > > steraks gage was fine with the base ad increase. the only champions who bought that item at that point were juggers. Nope, that simply isn't true. Every {{item:3078}} champion built it at least at one point of the game (many times as a second item). You would still see these guys abusing it: {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:5}} (and probably {{champion:120}} )
> [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000a0000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-18T10:16:44.369+0000) > > Nope, that simply isn't true. Every {{item:3078}} champion built it at least at one point of the game (many times as a second item). > > You would still see these guys abusing it: {{champion:84}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:41}} {{champion:5}} (and probably {{champion:120}} ) this is why they should have fixed trigage interaction on sheens end and not on steraks end. they just fixed one problem by creating a different problem. the only problem was the specific synergy between those two items. literally the simplest fix would have been to calculate sheen procs before steraks base ad increase instead of after.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: Imo, the major problem with these items is that they were bound to be abused by the other classes. Titanic clearly favours sticky people who continuously AA or apply on-hit effects, while Steraks Shield simply is more useful for Divers and squishies, because all they want is to survive the initial burst thrown by the opponents. While Juggernauts may have difficulties surviving, I think they should be solved by giving them more sustain/long term defensive stats than damage/anti-burst mechanics. For example, an item with Steraks stats and Death Dance passives would be more suited for Juggernauts, while not as useful for the other classes.
> [{quoted}](name=Anu3isII,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-18T01:50:13.994+0000) > > Imo, the major problem with these items is that they were bound to be abused by the other classes. Titanic clearly favours sticky people who continuously AA or apply on-hit effects, while Steraks Shield simply is more useful for Divers and squishies, because all they want is to survive the initial burst thrown by the opponents. > > While Juggernauts may have difficulties surviving, I think they should be solved by giving them more sustain/long term defensive stats than damage/anti-burst mechanics. For example, an item with Steraks stats and Death Dance passives would be more suited for Juggernauts, while not as useful for the other classes. steraks gage was fine with the base ad increase. the only champions who bought that item at that point were juggers. riot broke it when they changed it to bonus ad. the reason why it even had a base ad increase was exactly to prevent whats happening now. juggernauts who had total ad scalings built into their kits were supposed to benefit more from it than bonus ad scaling skirmishers.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 17
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=9UMWVpWJ,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-05-17T13:47:29.668+0000) > > Hi folks, > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Usual Disclaimers** > > These posts will often contain talk about future work we're doing, or planning to do, that isn't yet guaranteed to ship. The nature of the work could change or, depending on what we discover, projects mentioned may get delayed or even stopped. If you'd like to see a Tweet whenever a new one of these posts goes up: > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Simple ARAM balance changes every few patches** > > As you might have seen we had some simple balance adjustments for ARAM in 9.10. Our current thinking is that that's something we'll be doing every few patches. Changes will be simple stuff like % damage up or down, with one of the core goals being that a champion's playstyle, timings etc don't change significantly between maps (e.g. avoiding changes to spell CDs, CC durations, dash ranges etc). > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **State of some champs in 9.10** > > Now that 9.10 has been out for a bit short thoughts on a range of champs: > > * Yuumi > > Was looking weak enough on release we got a micropatch buff out for her quickly. Waiting to see where that puts her in combination with the expected learning curve. Most likely we'll hold off until making any other changes this week at least then reassess after the weekend. > > * Yi > > Looks a bit weaker in average skill games and a bit weaker again in high skill games. Increasing the delta between his performance in those two contexts wasn't a goal so we're monitoring how that goes. Want to give it a bit of time to see how players adapt to the changes though before making any assumptions, given a number of optimizations have changed. > > * Rageblade Users > > Generally don't seem to have been excessively affected by the changes from what we've seen so far. Kog's probably the most impacted, but even then's still doing reasonable. Not immediate compensation changes planned as a result. > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- > **Wukong Changes on PBE** > > Thanks for the feedback so far on the Wukong changes that hit PBE earlier this week. Overall perception seems to be positive, seeing some good suggested areas for improvement too. Will likely be a revised version on PBE sometime next week as a result. > > As a reminder these changes are a prototype, not something that could be ready to go live shortly. They'll be on PBE for around 4 weeks, then they'll be taken off and we'll figure out whether to commit to making a more polished version of them or not. how much longer is it going to take you to address fighter items? https://www.op.gg/champion/fiora/statistics/top why is it ok that fiora and similar fighters (skirmishers, divers) build juggernaut items almost every game? were not talking about these items as niche picks on them, but as part of their **core itemization**. all of this started happening since {{item:3053}} feeds into skirmishers bonus ad scaling abilities. the original base ad increasing mechanic was supposed to prevent exactly this scenario that has been going on for month. {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:157}} are not supposed to comfortably build jugger items to get as burst resistant or beefy as juggernauts in some cases. you need to revert the change to steraks gage that changed the ad bonus from base ad to bonus ad, and change {{item:3057}} interaction with this item instead. just make sheens damage calculate before steraks base ad increase instead of afterwards. its as simple as that.
: saying "gunblade is an ap deaths dance" shows how little you actually understand the items deaths dance is a bruiser item, gunblade is an assassin item (and hybrid at that) deaths dance offers damage, damage sustain in cdr, survivability in its passive AND regen in the lifesteal gunblade offers damage.......damage.....damage in its active, and then regen in the lifesteal a bruiser needs to sustain its damage in a fight, it needs cdr, gunblade does not offer this, a bruiser needs to be able to SURVIVE the burst, gunblade does not offer this AND gunblade wastes money for any non hybrid champion as for the "rumble sylas and ekko shouldnt have X because they are strong" should cleaver be removed from the game becasue lucian likes to buy it? should duskblade be removed because MF likes it? no those champions are tuned the way they are because they are currently forced into either building tank or assassin, they CANT build ap bruiser because there is functionaly only ONE ap bruiser item in protobelt a renekton or jarvan can build cleaver into titanic into DD, they can build BRUISER, a sylas can build a vast assortment of ap items, but they all only cause him to burst better or tank better, and the only things which allow him to SUSTAIN damage (cdr items) offer either no survivablity (ludens) or no damage (tank items) and so force him to go fully into burst or tank and prevent him from being.....a bruiser
> [{quoted}](name=voidscaler,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000a000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T21:49:19.685+0000) > > deaths dance is a bruiser item, gunblade is an assassin item (and hybrid at that) are you kidding with this? first of all, they could both be considered assassin items. every ad assassin in the game builds death dance for sustain when they want it. second, i compared them because theyre sustain items. ap bruisers tend to auto attack aswell as cast spells, and having the omnivamp and ad+ap from gunblade for them is comparable to death dance for ad assassins. its just the ap bruiser version of an ap sustain item. (and yes, im aware of the damage delay component on death dance. its exactly what makes the item worth more for squishier ad champios than beefier ad bruisers) but yea, apparantly i know shit. titanic and steraks gage shouldnt even be as accessable to most bruisers as they are. they were designed as juggernaut items, and the fact that skirmishers and divers are using these items to the same effect and with the same frequency as juggernauts, instead of as situational niche choice, is an ongoing problem. the entire premise of your argument is wrong. sylas, rumble and ekko shouldnt have equivalents to titanic hydra and steraks gage, because their ad counterparts shouldnt stack these items either. titanic and steraks were designed for slower fighters like darius, garen, illaoi, yorick and others who dont have the mobility and evasion tools in their kits to avoid teamfight aoe. their items are more powerful, because their kits lack the tools to deal with a lot of situations. at least that was the idea. riot fucked up when they turned steraks gage into bonus ad increase from a base ad increase and made it easily accessable to champions like fiora, camille, irelia, renekton and other highly mobile fighters. we dont need to create more of these problems by giving mobile ap bruisers the same items, but we need to fix the fact that ad skirmishers and divers are stacking juggernaut items **as their core items** and get tankier than they should. https://www.op.gg/champion/fiora/statistics/top look at this shit. fiora has mobility and her w as powerful defensive tools available. she shouldnt build steraks gage as much as she does. riot needed to address this problem already since the last change to steraks.
: Generally bruisers like some damage, yes
> [{quoted}](name=BackdoorPrincess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=00000000000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T16:48:42.449+0000) > > Generally bruisers like some damage, yes abyssal amplifies all your magic damage youre dealing with your ap bruiser by 15%. just because it doesnt directly grant ap doesnt mean it wont increase the damage youre dealing by a significant amount. same for {{item:3091}}
Uni3489 (NA)
: To be honest Riot might as well make a bruiser with AD scalings who just does magic damage, like a bruiser Corki. The existing itemization would work well for the bruiser playstyle.
> [{quoted}](name=Uni3489,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=0017,timestamp=2019-05-17T16:35:15.432+0000) > > To be honest Riot might as well make a bruiser with AD scalings who just does magic damage, like a bruiser Corki. The existing itemization would work well for the bruiser playstyle. {{champion:102}} {{champion:82}} are two examples on top of my head.
: Wow, someone actually understand the problem and looks at the big picture. When Riot laboled Sylass as a AP Bruiser, its laughable to say the least, because having Protobelt as the only bruiser item, while he then builds Rabbadon, Void Staff, etc...Doesnt actually make him actually a AP bruiser but just a Burst Mage or Battle Mage. AP itemization is awful and terrible at the moment so this concept of Riot was going to fail no matter what. The only reason Sylas seems to appear one, is solely due to the resistances that Aftershock gives and the heal power he had before.
> [{quoted}](name=Ascended Xerath,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=0015,timestamp=2019-05-17T14:59:10.024+0000) > > Wow, someone actually understand the problem and looks at the big picture. > > When Riot laboled Sylass as a AP Bruiser, its laughable to say the least, because having Protobelt as the only bruiser item, while he then builds Rabbadon, Void Staff, etc...Doesnt actually make him actually a AP bruiser but just a Burst Mage or Battle Mage. > > > AP itemization is awful and terrible at the moment so this concept of Riot was going to fail no matter what. The only reason Sylas seems to appear one, is solely due to the resistances that Aftershock gives and the heal power he had before. sylas already has decent ap bruiser itemization available to him. {{item:3100}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3157}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3165}} + conqueror would already be a completed ap bruiser build that works for him. he also has a couple other options like {{item:3027}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3115}} {{item:3146}} to modify his builds. he can also build additional defensive items like {{item:3742}} {{item:3065}} just like any other regular bruiser. he just went with a tanky cheese build with iceborn gauntlet a while back just like when tank ekko, tank akali and tank fizz were a thing. if he had different items available doesnt neccessarily mean he would build differently, because the tank cheese build was just really fucking strong.
: > [{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-16T20:51:55.503+0000) > > AD assassins {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} are building {{item:3071}} but no one is complaining about it. Jayce is building Assassins items but no1 is complaining about that XD.
> [{quoted}](name=taleofsonata,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000200000001,timestamp=2019-05-17T12:53:46.879+0000) > > Jayce is building Assassins items but no1 is complaining about that XD. because jayce is an early game cheese ball who mainly plays in the top lane, and falls off by mid to lategame. while hes really anoying, most top laners have the option to rush {{item:3047}} + {{item:1031}} and then his lethality doesnt do a whole lot. you just need to survive the early levels against him and not give him a snowball against you. then after a while his poke isnt as threatening anymore. he barely has any kill pressure from that point on.
aezens (EUW)
: Do you really want to compare those items with this: {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3813}} {{item:3026}} ? All of them provide good offense, defense and synergy at the same time. Her current kit might not allow an alternative to the assassin build but changing her kit into bruiser style can´t work unless you add reasonable usefull items to support this playstyle.
> [{quoted}](name=aezens,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000a0000,timestamp=2019-05-17T11:03:46.382+0000) > > Do you really want to compare those items with this: > > {{item:3071}} {{item:3053}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3161}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3813}} {{item:3026}} ? > All of them provide good offense, defense and synergy at the same time. > > Her current kit might not allow an alternative to the assassin build but changing her kit into bruiser style can´t work unless you add reasonable usefull items to support this playstyle. do you really think rumble, sylas and ekko should have access to equivalent items with the current power level of their kits? whats the point of adding more ap bruiser items when the ap bruisers are going to get heavily nerfed to compensate? because they would definitely have to be balanced around those items. {{item:3053}} {{item:3748}} arent even supposed to be used as core items by other fighters than juggernauts like they currently are. champions like {{champion:164}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:114}} arent supposed to have easy access to them and these jugger items rather need to be changed to be more juggernaut specific. also for {{item:3026}} they have {{item:3157}} for {{item:3812}} they have {{item:3146}}
thevypex (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T00:08:46.909+0000) > > theyre all melee, and the item isnt particularly more effective on them, than juggernauts. none of those champions stacks cleaver as fast as {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} > > combined with the fact that their kits are geared for frontloaded burst, this means cleaver isnt more powerful on them than {{item:3036}} > > infact, dominiks is probably almost always the better choice, and probably one of the reasons why cleaver is only rarely bought on assassins. > > however you can bet your ass, that champions like {{champion:63}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:143}} and others would adapt an ap black cleaver into their core builds. It's the hp plus 20% cdr that is attractive about BC for assassins, for only 3k gold they get drastically reduced cooldowns plus survivability
> [{quoted}](name=thevypex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2019-05-17T01:06:55.998+0000) > > It's the hp plus 20% cdr that is attractive about BC for assassins, for only 3k gold they get drastically reduced cooldowns plus survivability right, its just the stat combination and not the passive. exactly my point. some mages, and maybe even certain tanks would break the hell out of an ap cleaver because of the passive.
Saevum (NA)
: I still want VU on morde like the mortal remidner video. Skarner. I totally forgot he existed. Rammus? but he just stands there. And he's Ok. Forget it about Vayne. She got touched recently. It is already a miracle. I won't push it. What theme would you like for trynda if he gets reworked? we already have enough swordsmen, something fresh but Berserker-ish would be nice, maybe ice related spells cause he married Ashe. or a ice weapon of some sort! A built in frozen mallet! nah jk.
> [{quoted}](name=Saevum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rTxANsNj,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-17T02:40:20.035+0000) > > Rammus? but he just stands there. And he's Ok. rammus is pretty much fine. his ultimate could just be an actual ultimate. > What theme would you like for trynda if he gets reworked? this is a difficult one. he has a bunch of problems. the big two in my opinion are his ultimate (for the same reason poppy had to be reworked), and his reliance on early rng in the lane phase. thematically anything between a diver, skirmisher or juggernaut would work for him. but it would probably be almost an entire kit rework on the same level of what they gave poppy.
Rioter Comments
: Make guinsoos 2 autos for melee, and 3 for ranged?
: AD assassins {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} are building {{item:3071}} but no one is complaining about it.
> [{quoted}](name=HP Crookshanks,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-05-16T20:51:55.503+0000) > > AD assassins {{champion:141}} {{champion:121}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:555}} {{champion:107}} {{champion:91}} {{champion:238}} are building {{item:3071}} but no one is complaining about it. theyre all melee, and the item isnt particularly more effective on them, than juggernauts. none of those champions stacks cleaver as fast as {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} combined with the fact that their kits are geared for frontloaded burst, this means cleaver isnt more powerful on them than {{item:3036}} infact, dominiks is probably almost always the better choice, and probably one of the reasons why cleaver is only rarely bought on assassins. however you can bet your ass, that champions like {{champion:63}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:143}} and others would adapt an ap black cleaver into their core builds.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000b0000,timestamp=2019-05-16T23:55:10.916+0000) > > this game doesnt need more ap bruiser items. > > there are like 3 champions that would even qualify as ap bruisers and in return you would risk breaking mages with every item youre adding. I'd actually just like to see more AP Bruisers in general. They feel like an interesting class. Maybe they'll consider after they rework mordekaiser.
> [{quoted}](name=marshal the pyro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000b00000000,timestamp=2019-05-16T23:59:58.471+0000) > > I'd actually just like to see more AP Bruisers in general. They feel like an interesting class. Maybe they'll consider after they rework mordekaiser. i still think the ap bruiser items that are in the game are fine. if anything, they need to be balanced via their kits. balancing such a class by adding more items risks breaking mages and tanks. like, imagine {{champion:63}} {{champion:90}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:74}} {{champion:32}} and other champions with damage over time effects in their kits if something like an ap cleaver existed. not to mention champions like {{champion:68}} dont even need it. theyve been competitive with the items they have available. if he ever needed such an effect, they could just build magic pen into his kit.
: Don't play Diana but I'm all for more AP bruiser items. Current ones are kinda lacking honestly. They just feel like tank or utility items with a token amount of AP added on. And probably one of the best AP bruiser items (abyssal scepter got turned into a tank item)
> [{quoted}](name=marshal the pyro,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=lI1uNeyA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2019-05-16T23:53:01.839+0000) > > Don't play Diana but I'm all for more AP bruiser items. this game doesnt need more ap bruiser items. there are like 3 champions that would even qualify as ap bruisers in this game, and in return you would risk breaking mages, and possibly some tanks with every item youre adding. {{champion:68}} {{champion:131}} {{champion:60}} are the only champions who can be considered ap bruisers and diana and elise already require you to squint your eyes to not see them as assassins. maybe {{champion:517}} {{champion:245}} could count but theyre doing fine. even {{champion:82}} has ad scalings and can supplement his builds with ad bruiser items.
: If we had AP bruiser items, Diana wouldn't be building full burst mage items
lets look at {{champion:131}} kit compared to {{champion:39}} do you really think the problem is the itemization? diana has more than enough options to go into an ap bruiser build. {{item:3115}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3027}} {{item:3165}} {{item:3091}} {{item:3152}} {{item:3001}} {{item:3146}} but a shit kit is still a shit kit.
Death Rex (EUW)
: Stereotypes
if i got to touch one champion in this game, you would literally see the imprints of the nerf bat on {{champion:67}} character model. i would go to riots art and animation team and made sure that they were clearly visble on all of her skins, as a grim reminder that something like her never gets added to this game again.
: People can do good playing new champs in ranked. You just got one who didn’t.
> [{quoted}](name=Thaum1568,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=RaZtAiFF,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-15T15:19:26.338+0000) > > People can do good playing new champs in ranked. every single champion has a learning curve. even the simplest champions in this game are weaker in the hands of someone who has 0 games on them vs. someone who has 100 games on them. youre handicapping yourself and your team by picking new champions into ranked games every single time.
Arcade Lulu (EUNE)
: It's actually possible to have the same champion on both teams in aram But it's just extremely rare
> [{quoted}](name=Arcade Lulu,realm=EUNE,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=rVJkVGFb,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-05-14T18:25:38.649+0000) > > It's actually possible to have the same champion on both teams in aram > But it's just extremely rare i have played this game and aram for years, and it never happened so at this point i would be the luckiest person on the planet to never have seen that happen. especially since there are a bunch of aram accounts who all roll the same champions.
: > [{quoted}](name=RoG Seraph,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GcThn9Hn,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:30:13.432+0000) > > No one cares about GoT. This is a pointless post. You're totally fine thinking that. This one was a community request after our *Avenger's* post, so we obliged the community. Not everyone will think it's important, and that's fine -- if you don't care about GoT, the presence or absence of spoilers shouldn't mean much to you.
> [{quoted}](name=The Djinn,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=GcThn9Hn,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:59:24.776+0000) > > You're totally fine thinking that. This one was a community request after our *Avenger's* post, so we obliged the community. Not everyone will think it's important, and that's fine -- if you don't care about GoT, the presence or absence of spoilers shouldn't mean much to you. do we have an official discussion thread for the episodes, so people dont make their own spoilery posts?
: I'll fight Riven any damn day of the week over Yasuo. Hell, I'll fight Vayne and Riven over him - at least they have cooldowns over 3 seconds.
> [{quoted}](name=The JigSAW,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xNbbaqkN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-14T13:17:14.314+0000) > > I'll fight Riven any damn day of the week over Yasuo. Hell, I'll fight Vayne and Riven over him - at least they have cooldowns over 3 seconds. doesnt windwall have like 20 second cooldown? and his q is basically an auto attack that is dodgable. his e is tied to enemy units. literally all you have to do is not fight him around allied minions, and he effectively has one short range dash in his kit. champions like vayne and riven are much less restricted in their mobility. its unconditional.
Omarowh (EUW)
: Create a rune that makes manaless champions build mana items
alternatively, the rune could convert mana into a % max health increase instead of a flat health increase. so its about on par with what overgrowth used to be last season. and it wouldnt lead to situations like {{champion:84}} building {{item:3027}} and becoming insanely tanky off one or two mana/ap items. really the edge cases we would have problems with is if squishy champions gained a shitload of health off items like {{item:3285}} {{item:3100}} {{item:3027}} and similar cases. % health increases are much easier to handle since it would require to build other health items to make them really effective. champions like {{champion:82}} would probably still want the rune because they would scale it up with other health items. or if you want to build {{item:3025}} or {{item:3800}} on garen, because theyre complemented by health items. same for champions like {{champion:102}} {{champion:68}} etc.
Aseraan (EUW)
: it woudl be an absolute balance nightmare if its usefull if not other runes just would overshadow it just like right now whit runes...
> [{quoted}](name=Aseraan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tymYsu1p,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-05-13T22:10:30.116+0000) > > it woudl be an absolute balance nightmare if its usefull if not other runes just would overshadow it just like right now whit runes... put a cap on it. if its limited to one mana item in your inventory, it could be balanced. i would love to be able to build {{item:3800}} with glacial augment more often on garen. but you can really feel the efficiency loss from the mana on the item. if the rune would be limited to one item that gets its mana converted, i think it would be doable. most item passives that interact with mana would keep the rune from being broken. {{item:3802}} mana restoration passive would remain to have no effect, since its not mana regen. {{item:3010}} passives would have no effect, because its not mana regen and youre not spending mana to regain health {{item:3070}} items would still have no mana to convert into ap or ad. however other items might become more useful on some resourceless champions. {{item:3025}} {{item:3110}} {{item:3057}} {{item:3800}} etc. considering youre investing a rune into this stat conversion where you could take a different rune, it remains balanced. the mana to health conversion on one of those items wouldnt be more powerful than, say overgrowth. i say make it an inspiration rune, since inspiration is all about creative building, power in utility and rule bending.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: It hasn't been always like this. Nowdays you see bruisers monstly build {{item:3071}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3053}} and they're extremly hard to kill while maintain their high damage. If you notice, those items make them very tanky while providing considerably high amounts of AD. If they even want, they can get a {{item:3026}} on top of that, and you'll feel hopeless as a squishy champion to do anything to them at all. I don't have any problem with Bruisers dealing damage and being tanky, but look at Jax / Riven / Irelia. It isn't fair. They're actually very mobile, very hard to kill and they one shot squishy champions in a single rotation. It doesn't seem balanced to me. Bruisers shouldn't have acess to burst, but rather have DPS while being tanky, at least, in my opinion. Burst should be something that only mages and assassins can have.
> [{quoted}](name=iDarkWind,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WiZTzKnk,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-05-14T10:22:40.385+0000) > > It hasn't been always like this. Nowdays you see bruisers monstly build {{item:3071}} {{item:3812}} {{item:3053}} and they're extremly hard to kill while maintain their high damage. If you notice, those items make them very tanky while providing considerably high amounts of AD. > If they even want, they can get a {{item:3026}} on top of that, and you'll feel hopeless as a squishy champion to do anything to them at all. > > I don't have any problem with Bruisers dealing damage and being tanky, but look at Jax / Riven / Irelia. It isn't fair. They're actually very mobile, very hard to kill and they one shot squishy champions in a single rotation. It doesn't seem balanced to me. > Bruisers shouldn't have acess to burst, but rather have DPS while being tanky, at least, in my opinion. > Burst should be something that only mages and assassins can have. {{item:3053}} should have never been changed to bonus ad from a base ad increase. they should have fixed trigage from sheens end, and not from steraks end. the problem is, that most of the champions kits you mentioned scale with bonus ad instead of total ad. so since the change, steraks gage is feeding into abilities like {{champion:114}} passive, {{champion:39}} q and {{champion:24}} abilities and they have integrated some of these juggernaut items into their core builds. {{item:3053}} was developed as an item for slow melee fighters like {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:83}} and so on who dont have the mobility and evasion tools to deal with teamfight aoe. but now since steraks change, every fighter can become a juggernaut and burst resistant, even with a mobile skirmisher kit. 1.) change {{item:3057}} to decouple it from base ad increases. the easiest way to do that is to claculate its damage **before** base ad increases from items. 2.) change {{item:3053}} {{item:3748}} {{item:3022}} all to increase base ad instead of granting bonus ad if neccessary they need to change some juggernauts scalings to total ad, so the items are still effective on them. but this should throw a wrench into juggernaut builds on skirmishers, and make the item at least shitty as offensive items for them. they could still buy them for defense but would get very little damage out of them, which means its not profitable for them to stack these items.
: This is why I don't like facing Vayne
this nerf means nothing. her winrate might drop by a few % but she will probably still be a regular pick as long as its above 50%. i will still keep perma banning her. fuck that champion and her unfair design.
: Omniscience would let you know when they're going to pick Yasuo so you can pick a counter to him tho.
> [{quoted}](name=DuskDaUmbreon,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=U8KiGQrd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-13T13:12:20.643+0000) > > Omniscience would let you know when they're going to pick Yasuo so you can pick a counter to him tho. it sounds horrible. imagine knowing everything thats happening everywhere in the universe at the same time. you wouldnt even be human anymore. not to mention there is enough disgusting and horrifying shit on earth happening that you dont want to be constantly aware of.
Elipo (NA)
: Wait where is that from? Is it a fan art or is it legit
> [{quoted}](name=Elipo,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eEypeO7H,comment-id=00070003,timestamp=2019-05-12T15:08:06.542+0000) > > Wait where is that from? Is it a fan art or is it legit its a story board for an animation that riot apparantly dropped.
: It's more of an issue that top tanks don't actually have a first item like every other class. No options that give 20% CDR along with other stats they need. Unlike other classes you have to actually sacrifice a stat if you want that (going Gauntlet or Heart instead of Sunfire or Deadman's), then you're essentially screwing yourself because every top laner is bringing true damage and if they see you going into gauntlet they can even build Cleaver instead of their go-to Triforce. I've tried coming up with an item that simultaneously works for tanks but also can't be abused by fighters/juggernauts, but people tend to just look at the components and completely ignore the explanation. A lot of people don't seem to understand the mechanic of total effective health.
> [{quoted}](name=The Ecdysiast,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kWygLeIV,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-11T16:37:25.412+0000) > > It's more of an issue that top tanks don't actually have a first item like every other class. {{item:3068}} sunfire cape? its supposed to help with waveclear against champions who build straight damage, and allow you to push waves fast enough to roam and prevent getting pushed into your turret, and even adds some damage in trades. i dont know what else you keep building, but i suggest swapping to it. after that its {{item:3025}} for the mana, cdr and sheen proc.
Anl0rian (NA)
: See but I roamed and got kills and he just stayed mid and did nothing but push. He never even got a kill on me, and I killed him in lane once.
> [{quoted}](name=Anl0rian,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=ovT2ra2Y,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-08T18:49:12.815+0000) > > See but I roamed and got kills and he just stayed mid and did nothing but push. He never even got a kill on me, and I killed him in lane once. turret plating and minion gold then.
: The Top-Lane Infomercial
just listen to these testimonies: {{champion:122}} "I did'nt have fun in a game for the past two month!" {{champion:62}} "Please just end my suffering." {{champion:75}} *ASSIST PING* *ASSIST PING* *ASSIST PING*
Anl0rian (NA)
: Why the fuck...
if you lost mid lane to a garen, then thats on you. garen doesnt even do well against mages because of the constant poke and their superior waveclear pushing him in, giving them time to roam around the map and snowballing the game while he just sits there grabbing the couple cs he can get. hes more of a counterpick to ad assassins in the mid lane. i know riste played garen mid lane two seasons ago into a lot of matchups including mages, but he did so by getting constantly pushed in and forfeiting cs just to survive until he could do something midgame where he won purely off macro play. currently that doesnt work.
: > So when I end up building 300 armor and 6000 health the death recap should never show that true damage was over 40, 50, or even 60% of the damage dealt. So how would we, as squishy carries, ever be supposed to kill you then? Do you just want to be invincible forever while probably still 100-0 killing us with your own abilities? That's not very fair from our viewpoint, either.
> [{quoted}](name=RavenMagus,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5vwvykI2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-05-05T20:45:17.103+0000) > > So how would we, as squishy carries, ever be supposed to kill you then? this argument is braindead. there is an in between between never being able to kill a tank or fighter, and downright bursting a 4000 health 300 armor target. i dont agree with op to be honest. this is way too convoluted of a method to balance the game. you could instead just tune down true damage on the champions youre talking about instead and rework some aspects of their kit. a lot of people disagree with me on {{champion:114}} but i think the approach of balancing true damage on her by tieing it to a mechanic that her opponent can directly play around is the best way to do it. on paper she deals as much true damage as vayne or yi, but youre never just completely fucked against her and have the chance to outplay her by yourself by denying her hits on your vitals. (yes, even if its hard because shes mobile you still have the potential to deny vitals and the true damage entirely) vayne 100% needs the same treatment. so instead of counterplay in itemization, the true damage has mechanical counterplay. currently her entire kit doesnt give you a hook to outplay her. yi bothers me to a much lesser degree, since he very rarely gets into a position where he gets THAT far ahead. theoretically the counter itemization to him is health, but rageblade can make his true damage so high, that it doesnt seem to make a difference anymore. maybe the upcoming rageblade nerf will slow the procs down enough again for it to make 4000 healh over 2000 health more than a 1 second difference. but like i said, its almost a miracle to see a yi to get to that point. as a squishy melee champion hes also very easily shut down even if he does. vayne gets there almost every game.
: Game mode: Opposite day, AP and AD item reversal through adaptive stats (maybe next april fools),
: Innovation
https://imgur.com/a/XrRmxru
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r2UbLdWm,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2019-05-04T12:25:04.209+0000) > > that was a clear hit. it graced you but it still makes sense. > > champion and skillshot hitboxes are circular and dont always align with the actual model or particles. > > i dont know what that purple animation is (ludens?), but it looks like it outlines your hitbox. when you slow down the video, you can clearly see that the purple circle connects with the ability. https://imgur.com/a/F4Ky4nw The moment the spell hit me. You're saying that this is a clear hit. OK. I guess it's also OK for hitboxes to not align with the model/animation. And yes, the purple stuff is the Luden's proc. It procced off hitting me, so the purple effect originates from me, and it has nothing to do with the hitbox of the actual ability. This kind of statement makes me wonder if you have played a single game of League since the removal of DFG.
> [{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r2UbLdWm,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-04T13:50:52.513+0000) > > so the purple effect originates from me, and it has nothing to do with the hitbox of the actual ability. the purple effect outlines your hitbox, even if it in principle doesnt have anything to do with your hitbox itself. im saying if you look at the purple circle that the ludens proc creates, it gives you an idea what your own hitbox looks like. the actual champion hitboxes are circular areas on the ground beneath your champion model. for a lot of champion models, this means theyre aligning very poorly. combined with the camera angle it creates a lot of weird visual edge cases where skillshots look like they missed you (they didnt strike your character model but graced the hitbox), or it lookes like they hit the enemy champion model dead in the face but just passed through without effect. also, when i think of ludens proc, i think of the audio que and the droplets that originate from the champion and bounce over. you will forgive me if im not concious of every miniscule detail of every animation in this game at all times.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtOd6eQZxQc Ignore the rest of the clip and only look at Xerath's stun onto me. Yes, this game's hitbox is pretty laughable
> [{quoted}](name=Hawthorn Tree,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r2UbLdWm,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-05-04T08:59:46.580+0000) > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NtOd6eQZxQc > > Ignore the rest of the clip and only look at Xerath's stun onto me. Yes, this game's hitbox is pretty laughable that was a clear hit. it graced you but it still makes sense. champion and skillshot hitboxes are circular and dont always align with the actual model or particles. i dont know what that purple animation is (ludens?), but it looks like it outlines your hitbox. when you slow down the video, you can clearly see that the purple circle connects with the ability.
: What if Grasp was a scaling rune?
i wish they would have done the same with grasp that they did with dark harvest before the rework. after a certain amount of stacks, the buff duration is increased to 5 minutes, so you can carry the charge upfront into a fight.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eEypeO7H,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2019-05-04T07:25:52.121+0000) > > when are we getting this though? > > http://www.leifjeffers.com/directing > > https://imgur.com/a/8vVe42h > > watching those animation concepts about their first meeting and fighting that giant void creature was awesome. > > this should at least reuse the art assets to make a comic out of the story. Never.
> [{quoted}](name=KittyKàtKàtàrinà,realm=EUW,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=eEypeO7H,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2019-05-04T08:59:56.971+0000) > > Never. always. why are you so salty about this? the garen & kat love/rivalry had been a thing since the early days of league. if they do it right, it can be interesting and this concept looked really awesome.
: Animation Storyboard worth watching.
when are we getting this though? http://www.leifjeffers.com/directing https://imgur.com/a/8vVe42h watching those animation concepts about their first meeting and fighting that giant void creature was awesome. this should at least reuse the art assets to make a comic out of the story.
: And I can be 10/0 with {{champion:21}} and a {{champion:157}} that's 0/10 can nullify my teamfight with just windwall You know what I do? I ban him because I'm aware the he gigacounters my main but I will NEVER say (outside jokes) that he should be deleted/reworked just because I hate the way he is. The champs that should be reworked are either the really outdated ones ({{champion:82}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:133}} some of them) or the really problematic ones ({{champion:266}} {{champion:13}} {{champion:268}} {{champion:223}} )
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=0001000100000003000000010000,timestamp=2019-05-01T14:06:46.575+0000) > > And I can be 10/0 with {{champion:21}} and a {{champion:157}} that's 0/10 can nullify my teamfight with just windwall > > You know what I do? windwall has a huge cooldown window. force it out, then ult or position around it that you can hit stuff. what cooldown window does vayne have? when im saying impossible, i dont mean hard (like its hard for mf to outplay yasuo but still possible). i mean its actually impossible for garen to fight a vayne not just because her kit counters his, but simply because it doesnt have a weakness to exploit. there is no conceivable way you can bypass her e.
: The difference it's that I want her to be balanced. That's why I've been saying that she should be nerfed and I'm glad that she's being nerfed. You guys on the other hand want to remove her from the game and that's why you will never be satisfied, because the ones asking to delete Vayne are as geniuos as the ones asking to delete Yasuo.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010001000000030000,timestamp=2019-05-01T10:07:48.962+0000) > > The difference it's that I want her to be balanced. > > That's why I've been saying that she should be nerfed and I'm glad that she's being nerfed. > > You guys on the other hand want to remove her from the game and that's why you will never be satisfied, because the ones asking to delete Vayne are as geniuos as the ones asking to delete Yasuo. a champion can be balanced and have kit inherent counterplay. infact such a champion is much less binary towards counterpicking other champions and getting counterpicked, because even when he counterpicks his opponent, there is still variance around his kit inherent counterplay. {{champion:122}} counter picks {{champion:86}} because his kit is inherently more potent. but if i play the matchup well enough and dodge every q darius throws at me, evade his hook, and dont take long trades, i still have a chance at outtrading him and winning against him even at a disadvantage. those are things that are as well in my control as the darius player. meanwhile a 0/10 vayne will beat {{champion:86}} no matter what he does, simply because her kit is designed to win against him and there is no counterplay in her kit that could even the odds. the same is true for vayne against a lot of other champions.
: The Glaring Issues in ARAM That Have Not Been Addressed
the problem for a lot of stack champions on aram was literally solved with {{item:4302}} champions like {{champion:75}} {{champion:14}} etc. could stack the cannons and still get a good baseline of stacks by executing the cannons. with the item you didnt have the situation that you had to fight your own team for minions just to get a couple of stacks. the problems started when they removed all those items.
Elipo (NA)
: > {{champion:86}} : I want a katarina x Garen school love story since lux and ezreal are getting one. I think a skin line with this is long overdue now {{sticker:sg-shisa}}
> [{quoted}](name=Elipo,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=bXMXtbNE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-04-30T21:47:03.195+0000) > > I think a skin line with this is long overdue now {{sticker:sg-shisa}} if they did this, they should make them tango garen and tango katarina. like they did with the {{champion:4}} {{champion:28}} skins. maybe even throw a combined dance animation like with {{champion:498}} {{champion:497}} in there to make it perfect. even their old lore makes this incredibly fitting. >It was beneath their mighty banners of war that Garen first met steel with Katarina, the Sinister Blade. The infantrymen who beheld this event (and survived) commented that it seemed as though the two were locked in a mortal waltz against a symphony of clashing blades.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: this is getting even more ridiculous just stop I'm not a vayne main, never played her and do not think that she will be unplayable after those changes Further, vayne was viable before riot buffed her because she wanted a flashy adc in pro, so vayne was not the problem but riot >and fair to fight abusing words even more, we do not know limits do we
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:53:31.345+0000) > > abusing words even more youre not even making an argument here anymore. youre just complaining about how im wording mine as if that would invalidate them.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:25:09.356+0000) > > > it all boils down to that to beat vayne, you have to pick one of the few champions that outright beat her. not by outplaying her, or it's really funny how you abuse words I'm glad you're getting downvoted, because if you think that "few champions beat her" then I shouldn't waste time >not outplaying her more, more keep abusing words because outplaying is dodging skillshot mlg! abusing a weakness isn't outplaying for sure ye $^ù
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:42:25.626+0000) > > it's really funny how you abuse words > > I'm glad you're getting downvoted, because if you think that "few champions beat her" then I shouldn't waste time > > more, more > keep abusing words > because outplaying is dodging skillshot mlg! abusing a weakness isn't outplaying for sure > > ye $^ù fine. go ahead. have fun with a trashed version of vayne then rather than one that is functional and fair to fight at the same time. this is your problem. im fine if this version of her is just out of my games. if that means shes nerfed completely out of viability then so be it. if she drops to shit tier then, i dont want to hear any complaints from you.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:08:41.033+0000) > > range is a stat. > OK MISTER SHERLOCK You can call range a stat, it doesn't change jackshit outranging vayne doesn't mean outstating her, it means playing smarter than her vayne's small range puts her in danger unlike most other adcs, so if you know that vayne will come in 550 range to deal damage, you can already forsee where she's going to go in a fight and WHEN which means that she will die the second she comes in range of nautilus/ryze/draven many meta picks right now
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:23:53.660+0000) > > OK MISTER SHERLOCK > > You can call range a stat, it doesn't change jackshit means outranging vayne is stat checking her. youre running in circles with your arguments. it all boils down to that to beat vayne, you have to pick one of the few champions that outright beat her. not by outplaying her, or making correct choices in a fight with her. fights with vayne, unless shes played by someone actually terrible are pre determined. do i play champion A) who can beat her (that includes champions with long range direct target cc) or champion B) who always loses to her? this is the problem with vayne, and why she needs more changes than number tunings. she had number tunings in the past, and none of it ever got her into a spot that isnt complete irrelevance or completely broken. and "wait for her to fuck up" is not actual counterplay or an argument for it. you could make that for every champion no matter how strong or weak. you could have made that argument for 60% winrate skarner back in s5. all that power she has in her kit, especially in her w, needs justification by being tied to unreliability or other restrictions like its done with other champions.
: I'm not a Vayne main but I'm sure that the first thing that the anti adc dudebros of the Gameplay Boards wish is to make her unplayable.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:19:08.847+0000) > > I'm not a Vayne main but I'm sure that the first thing that the anti adc dudebros of the Gameplay Boards wish is to make her unplayable. i literally said what i want. counterplay to her kit. thats not the same as wanting her unplayable. it just means i have a chance to fight her even when i dont pick the "correct" champion. this nerf will have one of two effects. 1.) it will make her garbage tier. 2.) none at all. my guess its going to be option 1.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: >instead of making you only win by outstatting her. you win against vayne by outranging her this exists since a long time now, it has become odd thta people ARE STILL refusing to learn
> [{quoted}](name=D357R0Y3R,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NKTIZhqN,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-04-30T23:08:02.767+0000) > > you win against vayne by outranging her range is a stat. youre just making my point. you win against vayne by out picking her in champ select and not by outplaying her. adding counterplay to her kit would maybe even not make her complete aids to fight even when shes anything but a trashcan champion.
D357R0Y3R (EUW)
: Vayne nerfs on PBE
fixes her for the moment, until one day she inevitably gets get buffed back to what she is right now. weve been here before. she flips between broken op tier and shit tier with buffs and nerfs like this. how about some actual fundamental changes, like tieing her w to a mechanic with counterplay? like making her e not have a knockback unless the target connects with a wall? anything that actually adds something to her kit that you as her opponent can outplay, instead of making you only win by outstatting her.
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Critmaster Garen

Level 12 (NA)
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