: Maybe the new Conquerer is too good?
> Conqueror > ADAPTIVE FORCE 3-15 adaptive force per stack (max 15-75) ⇒ 2-10 adaptive force per stack (max 10-50) > RANGED STACK DURATION 3 seconds ⇒ 2 seconds (melee stack duration still 8 seconds)" theyre hotfixing it
: what garen really needs is to loose the stupid vilain mechanic and get that power shifted into the rest of his kit...Ever played vs Garen as melee-vilain? It's disgusting. If garen could choose his vilain, playing other melees into him would be next to impossible, he would be a bigger fuck you to frontlines that trundle and his ult... The random vilain is obviously just as bad, it's either pointless or just as frustraiting to go up against, and even worse, it feels like you get punished for doing good on a melee. The entier idea of it is just stupid on Garen. If they want such a mechanic, rengar would be more fitting, he has better target selection and it resonates with his theme, hunting for the most powerfull prey...
> [{quoted}](name=Sire Hippington,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FI8iHsbL,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2019-02-23T11:42:21.141+0000) > > what garen really needs is to loose the stupid vilain mechanic and get that power shifted into the rest of his kit... i dont care what they do with it at this point. as long as they keep it there, there needs to be a way for us to have some control over the mechanic. if they decide to remove it, fine but i wish theyd start an open discussion about it to see what we could do with the champion. i mean an option would simply be to replace it with atmas reckoning passive that didnt make it into the game, and give him bonus ad scaling with his health for each second in combat. another option would be to build on his critical strike scaling and make him unique as a juggernaut in that he can (feasably) weave infinity edge into his item builds as a sigle crit item. i wish theyd just talk to us.
Tayzzer (NA)
: riot aint gonna give a straight buff to the 6th highest wr champ tho man edit: **6th highest wr top
> [{quoted}](name=Tayzzer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FI8iHsbL,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-23T08:32:45.663+0000) > > riot aint gonna give a straight buff to the 6th highest wr champ tho man > edit: **6th highest wr top according to multiple sources, he has 46% winrate and 2.5% pick rate. are you joking? https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Garen/Top/ https://www.op.gg/champion/garen/statistics/top multiple sites show a massive decline in strength for multiple patches now. since 9.4 he isnt even a viable pick anymore. where are you pulling these stats from? honestly at this point its confusing. these sites diverge a lot more in their statistics than they used to in the past. and some like leagueofgraphs do dumb shit like mixing normals with ranked games. but overall, all ive seen show clearly that garen has a noticably below 50% winrate right now. i wish riot would just publish their own statistics to end this confusion.
Tayzzer (NA)
: I mean, sure buff my main, but hes way too common in low elo right? I was trying to think of a way that benefits high elo garens without making him even better in low elo
> [{quoted}](name=Tayzzer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FI8iHsbL,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-23T08:22:22.561+0000) > > I mean, sure buff my main, but hes way too common in low elo right? I was trying to think of a way that benefits high elo garens without making him even better in low elo nobody cares about low elo. there will always be champions that are the strongest down there. those champions are naturally those with a low skill floor. you cant balance a game around people who dont even know the simplest basics. its not possible. think about it. while someone at iron or bronze tier fiddles around with yasuo or azir and cant even figure out how his champion works, and how to execute basic combos, the opposing garen can concentrate on csing and learning basic game mechanics. naturally between two players who are making their first steps in the game, the champion that is just easier to pick up will always be stronger. if thats not garen, its some other champion like warwick, yi, or ashe. skill floor isnt the same as skill cap though. a champion can be easy to pick up and difficult to master. and even in low elo, he has a below average pick rate, and he has like 50% average winrate in bronze according to different sites. he isnt actually strong or common even at low mmr.
Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVs5ghbG,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-23T08:13:50.974+0000) > > sadly, crit garen isnt back until crit is back on {{item:3142}} and atmas impaler returned to the game. ghostblade was the item that made the build actutally work. I still find it pretty fun to play. Might swap one IE for essence reaver to hit that 40% cdr cap.
> [{quoted}](name=Seen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=iVs5ghbG,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-23T08:20:15.408+0000) > > I still find it pretty fun to play. Might swap one IE for essence reaver to hit that 40% cdr cap. yea, but its a trolly off meta build for urf and normals now that actually drops off towards lategame. it used to be legit.
Seen (NA)
: Crit Garen is back.
sadly, crit garen isnt back until crit is back on {{item:3142}} and atmas impaler returned to the game. ghostblade was the item that made the build actutally work.
: Change to garen w to allow more skill expression would b amazing
garen needs a straight up buff right now, and not just a power shift. the parry on his w is fine and is already a very good hook for skill expression in his kit. probably the best. what garen needs right now is a small update similar to what yorick received a few patches ago, that changes the way how villainy works and lets him chose the target himself at least upon gaining rank 3 on his ultimate, so he has some level of control over the most impactful mechanic in his kit and is not at the mercy of rngesus if villainy hits the correct target. villainy hits the enemy lulu, janna, anivia: "well, looks like i cant do shit this game". villainy hits the enemy tank, diver, low mobility marksman: "cool, i get to be useful". every other juggernaut in this game has control over the mechanic that makes him a carry. only garen doesnt. thats why the mechanic feels so frustrating to use.
: The reward for winning which triggers dopamine is higher in males than it is in females, this is why guys are more competitive about winning in almost everything not only video games. So yes, there’s a difference in sexes in terms of internal motivation to keep playing, this is also why most gaming communities are males. Anyways to answer your question, I know know of one her name is YaThatWasABanana.
> [{quoted}](name=205181825,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X9Qnongn,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-22T19:54:38.320+0000) > > The reward for winning which triggers dopamine is higher in males than it is in females, this is why guys are more competitive about winning in almost everything not only video games. > > So yes, there’s a difference in sexes in terms of internal motivation to keep playing, this is also why most gaming communities are males. > > Anyways to answer your question, I know know of one her name is YaThatWasABanana. lmao @ getting downvoted for facts. he didnt say that no girls are ever competitive, but its literally a part of the male physiology, and hence men are more competitive in general. this ideology that men and women are exactly alike and there are no general psychological differences is getting ridiculous and isnt even close to reality.
Lapis (OCE)
: Are there any girls in challenger?
: Yeah, I’m hoping they tweak it to only work with autos like fervor of battle. It can still work for boosting ap or ad but only get the stacks from auto makes it feel more balanced.
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KjfbdZVe,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-22T20:09:34.177+0000) > > Yeah, I’m hoping they tweak it to only work with autos like fervor of battle. It can still work for boosting ap or ad but only get the stacks from auto makes it feel more balanced. if a change had to be made, it would have to be to garens spin and not conq. i dont know if making conqueror accessable to him would be important, but its definitely important that they finally do some more dedicated work on him than stat changes.
Riot Jag (NA)
: Teemo changes temporarily on PBE for early feedback
https://imgur.com/a/8V2wfE1 accurate representation of {{champion:86}} villainy aiming at a priority target on the enemy team.
: Karthus Jungle Winrate Drops 5% off a 5/10 Damage nerf
what did they nerf, his q? that wouldnt be surprising, as it should have massively impacted his first clear. edit.: yup. who the fuck memed this nerf? slight damage buffs and nerfs at lvl 1 to junglers have always massively impacted their performance. this isnt anything new.
Saevum (NA)
: More like: He needs an indirect buff from {{item:3071}}. Agency on his ultimate, like you have mentioned before. Being able to select a villain, or maybe getting Villan stacks? But both options just step on Kindred mech territory.
> [{quoted}](name=Saevum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WnEGB2ev,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-21T22:28:45.344+0000) > > More like: > > He needs an indirect buff from {{item:3071}}. > > Agency on his ultimate, like you have mentioned before. Being able to select a villain, or maybe getting Villan stacks? But both options just step on Kindred mech territory. thats not a garen buff though. thats a buff to everyone who uses cleaver and doesnt increase his relative lategame power to a lot of champions. cleaver is pretty weak of an item currently, but garen also has his own issues.
: proposed scaling adjustments for garen.
5.) another addition i already asked for in a separate thread. just adding it here to have it all in one place - make garens isolated spins (with the 33% damage increase) count as a single target spell, so it gets the full effect of spellvamp when youre spinning on a single enemy unit. this would open up death dance and ravenous hunter as combat sustain options in 1v1 situations.
: i play champs i know how to play well. (not sure if plat is considered low elo or not but besides the point). I dont play champs that are meta i play champs i enjoy as most people do and should do. How come is it i can play almost any champ i want top and win pretty much every time. But when it happens i go against one of those 3 champs i get dicked on every game(besides darius because he isnt nearly as strong as the others mentioned). Garen and Renekton are too strong throughout the game. Except renekton kinda falls off if he brings PTA which not many bring as of this meta because conq is rediculous and riot is buffing it for some reason making these champs even stronger than they already are. Now my main champs are Yasuo Nasus and riven. (All played top) i understand yasuo isnt really a top laner but im good on him reguardless and im good at top. it doesnt matter which champ i play i seem to lose no matter what to renekton.
> [{quoted}](name=IIIIllllIIl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i51mg8YW,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2019-02-22T02:08:59.348+0000) > > Garen and Renekton are too strong throughout the game. https://www.op.gg/champion/garen/statistics/top coming in hot with that 46% winrate, with less than 50% early on and almost 40% for games that last longer than 30 minutes. holy shit, so stronk early and lategame. the problem is you, not the champion. the past few patches just shit on garen, and he needs buffs if anything.
: I think that is how they intended it. It would be too broken being able to stack it off of one move. Edit: not to mention he shreds armor with it.
> [{quoted}](name=Phieldworker,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KjfbdZVe,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-22T17:20:39.004+0000) > > I think that is how they intended it. It would be too broken being able to stack it off of one move. you mean like urgots w? really, i dont think riot would give a shit if garen could stack conqueror with his spin alone. its intended to be a fighter keystone after all. they dont seem to have a problem with other champions being able to almost instantly stack it, including a bunch of ranged champions. the reality is, that there is no intention here. id be surprised if they even though about him when they designed the rune. they seemed to consider mages more than anything else. its simply not how the spin works. thats about all there is to it.
LordZeds (EUW)
: full tank garen does to much damage
full tank garen does dicks for damage. thats why nobody does it.
: Kayle yasuo interaction
theyre projectiles like any marksman attack. why would you expect them to bypass windwall? it makes sense that they dont.
Ralanr (NA)
: Well she’s more gated by levels than items now.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TVBOLJHR,comment-id=000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-22T15:45:36.986+0000) > > Well she’s more gated by levels than items now. kayle gets destroyed in lane because she doesnt have items yet vs. kayle gets destroyed in lane because she doesnt have levels yet. i guess? i mean, it might be easier to come back from a level disadvantage, than an item disadvantage. that doesnt really change that her power curve is so messed up that she probably never sees her op lategame. like how is she ever going to survive top lane against champions like renekton? how is she going to survive mid lane against any mage who outranges her? does she have the clear to jungle? doesnt really look like it from the footage ive seen. where do you take her to be able to scale? should she even be able to scale even just semi reliably with how broken she is lvl 16? that seems unfair aswell.
Ralanr (NA)
: I mean, all they really did was make her late game stronger, her early weaker, and have her more reliant on levels than items. As much as I support a rework to try a character again, I didn’t understand Kayle’s underlying problems that weren’t made that way to balance her. Course, I also utterly despise auto attack heavy champions so...
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=TVBOLJHR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-21T18:14:50.047+0000) > > I mean, all they really did was make her late game stronger, her early weaker, and have her more reliant on levels than items. yup, thats exactly the problem. current kayle isnt viable for the same reason. all they did was basically crank up her broken power curve to be even weaker early and even stronger late. i honestly dont see the point of that.
Doge2020 (NA)
: Well Kayle wouldn’t need Tiamat anyways when she gets to lvl 11 or even as early as lvl 6. Her waveclear looks pretty good with her passive.
> [{quoted}](name=Doge2020,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I55lkdEr,comment-id=00000000000000000001,timestamp=2019-02-21T19:39:38.850+0000) > > Well Kayle wouldn’t need Tiamat anyways when she gets to lvl 11 or even as early as lvl 6. Her waveclear looks pretty good with her passive. its not really about needing it. if she could build it, she would deal even crazier ranged teamfight aoe. it was to be highly expected though that it doesnt work.
: > [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I55lkdEr,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T18:43:53.438+0000) > > i guess that makes sense. i mean its really awkward in this case, since gnar never entirely loses the benefit of those items, while for kayle theyre just going to stop working. but still, i can see the logic to how it works. ok i just tested in practice tool, a few interactions: - picking up a rapid firecannon will have no effect, until you have 1 point in your E (doesnt have to be used, just a skill point in it. it works normally afterward, energized attacks and all.) - steraks can be bought and WILL proc, regardless of when she bought it, or if she uses E. just no giant's strength part of the passive after level 11. - runnans can be bought, but bolts wont fire untill she's ranged (level 11) so yeah i was flat out wrong before. anything else you need me to check real quick?
> [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I55lkdEr,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T19:00:22.471+0000) > > ok i just tested in practice tool, a few interactions: > > - picking up a rapid firecannon will have no effect, until you have 1 point in your E (doesnt have to be used, just a skill point in it. it works normally afterward, energized attacks and all.) > > - steraks WILL proc, regardless of when she bought it, or if she uses E. just no giant's strength part of the passive. > > - runnans can be bought, but bolts wont fire untill she's ranged > > so yeah i was flat out wrong before. anything else you need me to check real quick? not really. i highly disapprove of the steraks being available to her as a ranged champion, but i highly doubt that the hydras will work past lvl 11. thx for the efford though.
: i think it works like gnar, you just wont get the bonuses anymore until you meet their criteria again.
> [{quoted}](name=FOR JUSTICE,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I55lkdEr,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-02-21T18:23:25.533+0000) > > i think it works like gnar, you just wont get the bonuses anymore until you meet their criteria again. i guess that makes sense. i mean its really awkward in this case, since gnar never entirely loses the benefit of those items, while for kayle theyre just going to stop working. but still, i can see the logic to how it works.
Rioter Comments
: proposed scaling adjustments for garen.
4.) bonus addition - increase the animation speed of decisive strike with garens champion level to make it a better play making tool and more reliable auto attack reset at later stages of the game.
Rioter Comments
: A solution to % hp true damage: make them have to build penetration
garens true damage hasnt been an issue at all. its conditional enough to be able to play around it. fioras only issue is that riot decided to fuck up {{item:3053}} when they made the item give bonus ad instead of increasing base ad. otherwise its the same as garens. her true damage is attached to a conditional mechanic. the real problem is vayne.
: Oh my old brother has the Judgment Kayle but I started to play later so I missed it, if they change the skills to be dark/blue/grey it will be amazing. I mean I would craft Aether W because I craft all legendary skins shards I get that are non meme tier as that 1820 TF one, Alien Heimer with base skills. That's why I have Mecha Zero Sión even though I barely play him or Darkfrost Anivia, I rather craft good skins for champs I dont use than normal skins for champs I dont play aswell. And I'm still holding the Gentleman Cho Gath shard waiting for it to be worth spening the orange essence eventually.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=000300000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T15:24:14.259+0000) > > Oh my old brother has the Judgment Kayle but I started to play later so I missed it, if they change the skills to be dark/blue/grey it will be amazing. > > I mean I would craft Aether W because I craft all legendary skins shards I get that are non meme tier as that 1820 TF one, Alien Heimer with base skills. > > That's why I have Mecha Zero Sión even though I barely play him or Darkfrost Anivia, I rather craft good skins for champs I dont use than normal skins for champs I dont play aswell. > > And I'm still holding the Gentleman Cho Gath shard waiting for it to be worth spening the orange essence eventually. i disenchant all teemo shards out of principle. the first legendary skin i found in a box was that ptsd teemo skin. i unlocked a ward skin for the essence. no regrets.
: Well, so are Yasuo and Vayne....
> [{quoted}](name=Titanium70,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfETJmuO,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2019-02-21T15:13:37.009+0000) > > Well, so are Yasuo and Vayne.... yasuo has counterplay. vayne, agreed. shes the same dumb as shit design. 100% stat check and the only balance lever in her kit is her power curve and how she scales with items.
: So new Kayle is melee until lvl 11?
> [{quoted}](name=RedPannda,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bfETJmuO,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-02-21T05:31:43.231+0000) > > how is she supposed to get there in the first place? she isnt. if she was able to, shed be broken. yes, its completely r%%%%%ed. they made the power difference between her early and late even bigger than it already was. her lategame dps is almost twice as what its now (and now is already insane). her early game is the same without access to ranged auto attacks. good luck on the rift.
: Kayle won't be able to go top lane anymore
if the same kayle as the one as on the pbe would be laning against me, id completely annihilate her with most champions. the new kayle pre lvl 11 looks like the current kayle without her e. kayle right now on live is a champion with an extreme power curve already. shes pretty weak early on and scales insanely hard with items to the point where she turns into a hypercarry lategame. the reason shes generally not viable is, because most champions just beat her early on to the point where she never scales. what theyve done with her is to make this difference even larger. post rework kayle at early levels is even weaker, while shes almost unfairly strong lategame. i dont see how she can be made to be a functioning champion in this game like this.
: I doubt anyone would get confused. It's pretty easy to check what level she is. And you don't even have to see. Generally players have similar levels at all times, so you can assume around which stage she is just by looking at the general level of the other players.
> [{quoted}](name=Lulu the Support,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:58:38.872+0000) > > I doubt anyone would get confused. It's pretty easy to check what level she is. And you don't even have to see. Generally players have similar levels at all times, so you can assume around which stage she is just by looking at the general level of the other players. i understand. but visual clarity is important in a game like this. just yesterday i saw hashinshin die to a {{champion:19}} gank with the lunar guardian skin, where he said he couldnt see warwicks e because "the skin is constantly glowing". it was just hard to make out that he even had the ability activated, and tbh. i didnt really see it either in that moment. in the heat of the moment, making kayle look like she didnt ascend already might cause confusion for some people.
: I actually think that the idea of 3rd/4th form is this one https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WLeL7GxMA3s/maxresdefault.jpg There's a part that it's still the wings and the two separated parts are like aether cannons. I would like how they did it if they changed a bit the damm colours, the copper on the last form kills it for me, anyway I crafted that skin years ago when they just released the loot system and as a law career student I guess I should play the female judge Dredd
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=0003000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:52:44.471+0000) > > I actually think that the idea of 3rd/4th form is this one > > https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WLeL7GxMA3s/maxresdefault.jpg > > There's a part that it's still the wings and the two separated parts are like aether cannons. > > I would like how they did it if they changed a bit the damm colours, the copper on the last form kills it for me, anyway I crafted that skin years ago when they just released the loot system and as a law career student I guess I should play the female judge Dredd the reference didnt escape me. i found it hilarious that they used judge dredd quotes in this. i was really talking about her big main wings that dont really look like wings anymore. the floaty cannons at the side is not whats bothering me. i dont know. maybe its just me. i have the shard, but i dont think ill unlock it. i still have my season 1 judgement kayle skin which got a huge upgrade, the free riot kayle, and now the pentakill kayle which looks absolutely amazing with the burning effects.
: I like the 3rd form, 4th is ass on the other way. Honestly I did good in keeping the Inquisitor shard because it looks amazing, I'll probably upgrade it.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=n5QR64r0,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2019-02-21T14:31:57.600+0000) > > I like the 3rd form, 4th is ass on the other way. > > Honestly I did good in keeping the Inquisitor shard because it looks amazing, I'll probably upgrade it. i dont understand what her wings in her third and fourth form are supposed to be. theyre not even streamlined anymore. they just look like they have been crumpled up into this deformed state. meanwhile pentakill kayle. ill definitely upgrade that one. (edit.: infact i just did.) https://imgur.com/a/uqPuwjy
: [FEEDBACK] Aether Wing Kayle - give us the option to ctrl+5 to her previously unlocked forms
theyre not going to do that, because it would reduce visual clarity. her transformations and her changing model are a general indicator for how powerful she currently is. its not just an accessory like aatrox banner wings or kaisas helmet. if youd allow her to return to her second form at lvl 11, people might get confused why she auto attacks at range even though she looks like she shouldnt. i understand that you can just look at her level, but its still something riot probably wont do. i also understand why you want it. her third and fourth form on the aether wing kayle skin looks like ass. i dont even know what her wings are supposed to be. they just look deformed. so glad right now that i have both, the aether wing kayle skin shard and the pentakill skin shard. the pentakill skin actually looks better than her legendary, and im going to unlock that. unless judgement kayle is better than both of them. edit.: holy fuck, judgement kayle looks awesome. im so glad i have that.
Saevum (NA)
: Worried about a possible counter for Garen? She doesn't seem to have dashes. She doesn't seem to penalize melees early. She is still a squishy target. She still require her main items to become a threat. Hopefully. You can penalize her early with trades. I want to believe. You can keep her down. Most probable, cause she has a power gate spike at 16. She probably still better 1 on 1 than team rounded. The rageblade uncertainty - She would be broken af.
> [{quoted}](name=Saevum,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2019-02-21T06:35:12.470+0000) > > Worried about a possible counter for Garen? im worried that literally nothing changes compared to her current gameplay. and it looks like i was correct. they ramped up her lategame damage to twice what it is currently, and her early game is even weaker than live kayle. lmao. every single champion is just going to roll over her in lane. this means she will always be a dumpster champion. if she was ever buffed to survive the lane phase, shed be immediately broken. they fixed absolutely nothing, and practically made another vayne.
hoganftw (NA)
: Give me one reason why magic should exist.
{{champion:517}} Mages are the victims, and Demacia treats them unfairly! I will prove this by going on a random killing spree and form a mage terrorist group!
: Because she doesn’t have her shred passive anymore.
> [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-02-20T19:51:57.292+0000) > > Because she doesn’t have her shred passive anymore. yes. i already addressed that in my opening post. they could have just kept the shred passive at lvl 16 instead of the true damage. well spotted.
: I wasn't sure about Guinsoo and Runaan but I'm glad that it wont work because it would also tie her builds so much since at least Guinsoo would be needed always. Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kayle is going to be balanced I was just trying to get exactly why is she going to be problematic and if that can be fixed on a hard or easy way due to her design. I think that her ultimate will be nerfed because at max rank (in the gameplay video shown) it's 3 seconds of invulnerabilty and then that aoe dmg which I think it's too strong for engages but anyway we still dont know exactly how is her gameplay gonna be because no numbers are shown since she's still not on the PBE.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T18:25:40.105+0000) > > I wasn't sure about Guinsoo and Runaan but I'm glad that it wont work because it would also tie her builds so much since at least Guinsoo would be needed always. > > Dont get me wrong, I'm not saying that Kayle is going to be balanced I was just trying to get exactly why is she going to be problematic and if that can be fixed on a hard or easy way due to her design. > > I think that her ultimate will be nerfed because at max rank (in the gameplay video shown) it's 3 seconds of invulnerabilty and then that aoe dmg which I think it's too strong for engages but anyway we still dont know exactly how is her gameplay gonna be because no numbers are shown since she's still not on the PBE. yea, i can imagine her ult to be op on a malphite engage or something similar.
: https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/developer-corner/QkwlXTpc-quick-gameplay-thoughts-february-20?comment=0003000000000000 Well it looks like Kayle true dmg wont be increased neither with {{item:3124}} or {{item:3085}} That 1% coming hot For the Q I'm still not sure if it's a skillshot or point and click but I'm aware that it's posible for her Q to be point and click which would be a mistake imo. I honestly think that you are downrating the impact that is that she can hit while casting ult because current Kayle on lategame still has 525 range and it's not like she deals more raw dps than Twitch Kog Maw for example that both have massive range, what makes it up is her ultimate to be actually able to be in range and deal the dps while it. With that gone on her ultimate will be *way* worse on a 1vs1 scenario than current Kayle, but her ultimate will be better on allies now.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2019-02-20T17:48:58.839+0000) > > https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/es/c/developer-corner/QkwlXTpc-quick-gameplay-thoughts-february-20?comment=0003000000000000 > > Well it looks like Kayle true dmg wont be increased neither with {{item:3124}} or {{item:3085}} > > That 1% coming hot > > For the Q I'm still not sure if it's a skillshot or point and click but I'm aware that it's posible for her Q to be point and click which would be a mistake imo. > > I honestly think that you are downrating the impact that is that she can hit while casting ult because current Kayle on lategame still has 525 range and it's not like she deals more raw dps than Twitch Kog Maw for example that both have massive range, what makes it up is her ultimate to be actually able to be in range and deal the dps while it. > > With that gone on her ultimate will be *way* worse on a 1vs1 scenario than current Kayle, but her ultimate will be better on allies now. ill admit when im wrong, but its honestly surprising, because its not typical for riot to make these limitations. im still not convinced kayle being balanced soley around stats and her power curve is going to fix her current issue. if shes going to be a carry or even hypercarry late, then she has to be trash early on, since she doesnt have counterplay elements in her kit that she could be balanced around.
: Potential buffs and nerfs to garen to make him balanced across all elos
**number 1: ** i dont agree with lowering the resistance gain even further. either uncap his w entirely (it already takes a lot of time - 25 to 30 minutes - to stack up to the 40. reducing the gain further would take him forever to reach the same value) or, the other option would be to give it the same treatment as {{champion:31}} ult. decide on a baseline of his passive, either 30 or 40 that he can stack up on minions. then allow him to gain an additional either 1 or 0.5 points of resistances for every champion takedown that dont count towards that cap. this means you could gain additional stacks by fighting and skirmishing and wouldnt be incentivised to sit in a sidelane to push waves the entire game. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **number 2: ** the cast time on his r is not a problem. infact, it can be a benefit since it often times baits out and wastes the enemies flash. even if the enemy uses any form of mobility after the ult cast already started, it will still connect. a lot of the time, enemies will waste their flash to get out of his ult range, when the cast already started just to die at their new location. as far as the q goes, i tend to agree. id like a rather simple change to the ability. speed up his q animation with his base attack speed (per champion level). it makes the q more worthwile as a playmaking tool and auto attack reset around mid to lategame. its also thematically consistent with his spin getting faster as he levels up. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **number 3:** i wouldnt make any changes to his passive at this point ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **number 4:** villainy is a problem, because the ability makes up a massive chunk of garens power budget. but the way the mechanic is implemented gives us no control over it and it just feels downright useless half the time, when it lands on inaccessble, or low priority targets. if the mechanic is kept on garen, then id suggest making garens ult fully "unlock" at rank 3, similar to how {{champion:122}} gets the full reset on his rank 3 ultimate. meaning upon leveling his ult to rank 3, garen gets to chose the villain entirely himself with a mechanic like {{champion:203}} passive, on like a minute cooldown. this would give him some level of control over the mechanic. in return, they could remove the true damage from his rank 1 ult against the villain, and it gets added back with his rank 2 ultimate. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- **number 5:** i dont like this. just increase his base stats tbh. garen has 6 lower base ad at lvl 18 and 200 less base hp at lvl 18 than the other juggernauts. just bring him up to par with the rest of the class. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- overall i honestly dont mind his early game being as weak as it is. there are many similar scaling champions in this game who start out weak. but garen has to actually scale into a carry at some point of the game. right now, his weakass lategame doesnt nearly make up for the issues he has making himself relevant early and midgame. youll realize that all of the changes i posted here are mainly buffs to his lategame, where his real issue is in my opinion. if garen gets bullied around in lane, he just cant fall off as he does currently. he has almost 40% winrate for games that last longer than 30 minutes. back in season 5 when he received his juggernaut rework, all of his lane bully potential was destroyed and his early game nerfed in favour of promising us better lategame scaling. obviously he didnt get that, and its about time they did something to buff his later game stages. we shouldnt just get outscaled by every other carry.
: “Tanks deal too much damage” but...
> [{quoted}](name=After3perma,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AJRVjGhU,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-11-19T12:48:45.704+0000) > > Juggernauts and Bruisers are allowed to have the same tankiness and deal assassin level damage. That is fine according to the community. juggernauts trade team utility, mobility and team engage that tanks offer for raw carry potential. tanks and juggernauts are supposed to have different strengths. juggernauts are supposed to be tanky melee carries. so yes, that makes juggernauts dealing damage fine, while tanks shouldnt deal as much damage. irelia and jax arent juggernauts by the way. juggernauts are those champions: {{champion:122}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:83}} etc. low mobility, low ranged melee fighters with low target access who dont have hard gap closers, or similar mobility and can only walk or run at their opponents.
: >what is the point of giving fighters and tanks short lived % damage reduction steroids that are supposed to be powerful defensive tools, if you add easily available true damage to more and more champions who then proceed to ignore this mechanic? Oh man I have good news for you: IE no longer gives every crit adc true dmg on their crits and Conqueror is being reworked to have less true dmg. They are reducing true dmg.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FbXXfc3i,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:20:43.755+0000) > > Oh man I have good news for you: IE no longer gives every crit adc true dmg on their crits and Conqueror is being reworked to have less true dmg. > > They are reducing true dmg. i mean. would be nice if they wouldnt also additionally add true damage to champions who dont currently have it. damage wise, kayles kit is already able to carry with "just" resistance shred. why couldnt they just go with that?
: First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with {{item:3124}} ) Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot. Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally *she* *cant* *atack* and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:17:17.455+0000) > > First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with {{item:3124}} ) > > Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot. > > Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally *she* *cant* *atack* and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate. she doesnt seem to have any unreliability or restrictive elements in her kit either to counterbalance her carry potential. she looks like shes still a pure stat check champion. so the ONLY balancing lever is going to be her power curve. and thats exactly current kayles problem. i dont really see how her current problems are fixed with this update.
: First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with {{item:3124}} ) Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot. Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally *she* *cant* *atack* and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate.
> [{quoted}](name=Sir Saltarin,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dTHMZuzf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:17:17.455+0000) > > First: We dont know if new Kayle aa passive will be a on hit effect or an on atack effect (like Cait passive that you dont 2 get stacks with {{item:3124}} ) you can bet your ass, that phantom hits are going to work with it. shes an on hit champion now, and riot wouldnt change that with her rework. yes, we cant be 100% certain at this point, but its 99% likely. > Second: I think that her Q is an skillshot, but I'm not sure at all because the video is really vague on that aspect, since it being point and click and with a similar range would overlap her E I assume that Q it's a skillshot. if it was a skillshot theyd probably have shown the indicator like they did with other champions in the past. (it might be a skillshot, but currently it doesnt look like it) > Third: Not sure if you've noticed it but when she's casting R on herself or on an ally *she* *cant* *atack* and while I'm not 100% sure if it's like that it's a massive change because her bonkers lategame right now is that strong because she can have that dps and melt everyone while on her ultimate. her r not allowing her to attack during the duration doesnt change the other issues her kit has. right now shes balanced around kindof a broken power curve. not just because of her invulnerability, but the insane levels of damage she can output after a certain point in the game. she is literally like a ranged version of {{champion:11}} already at the moment. the only thing she lacks is his flat true damage. in return her early game is kept so shit, that its barely feasable for her to reach that point in the game. her rework doesnt seem to change that, but infact it looks like she deals even more damage than currently, which is pretty insane and i fear she will either be overtuned or just as bad as she is now, when shes balanced around that kind of lategame.
: Honestly though, I don't mind this much at all compared to fiora and vayne who have self peel/ability blockers on top of insane mobility, and insane levels if % HP true damage
> [{quoted}](name=kingDeDeDarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FbXXfc3i,comment-id=00050001,timestamp=2019-02-20T15:08:09.636+0000) > > Honestly though, I don't mind this much at all compared to fiora and vayne who have self peel/ability blockers on top of insane mobility, and insane levels if % HP true damage i dont mind fiora as much, since you can play around the mechanic to a degree. you can outplay her by juking her q and her attempts to poke at your vitals. the new kayle seems to have the same problem as vayne. there is no way to play around that mechanic. its again just attached to her auto attacks, and again on a ranged (by that point in the game) champion. i just dont understand why riot keeps doing this and applies different design values to melee and ranged champions. kayles new kit seems still to be entirely stat check design, balanced around a broken power curve.
Rioter Comments
: Kayle + why true damage is a good thing
she already has resistance shred on her q. they could also have just kept her current passive and make her shred or pierce stacking 3% armor/mr per attack at lvl 16. not to mention shes going to build {{item:3124}} anyways, which additionally pierces armor/mr. the true damage is entirely uneccessary. all it does is further devalue champions with % damage reduction in their kits, aswell as the champions with inbuilt true damage. the more true damage you add into champion kits the less reason there is to pick the champions who have it inbuilt. what is the point of giving fighters and tanks short lived % damage reduction steroids that are supposed to be powerful defensive tools, if you add easily available true damage to more and more champions who then proceed to ignore this mechanic?
dalphy08 (NA)
: Your choice on the following arts from 2010 to now
thematic i like the old garen splash art more, and would have liked to see an updated version of that. i never liked that they made him so much angrier with his visual update and preferred his reserved old self.
: VANGUARD HERCULES (Smite) GAREN SKIN! - League of Legends (Fan)
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Critmaster Garen

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