: rip kindred yet again
RIP any jng but the duelers. going to be a blast seeing only kha, ww, xin, and j4 in every game, can't wait!
Novalas (NA)
: While testing these changes, we've felt that there's adequate agency playing against for the first scuttle. Myself and the other jungler on the Playtest Team determined that ceding the scuttle is a solid option - Taking the first scuttle actually opens you up for a level 2 invade from the enemy jungler and can cause a jungler to get 3-buffed. You can defensive ward against it, ofc, but then you have a player advantage since their jungler is on the opposite side of the map taking scuttle.
how on earth is ceding the scuttle to the other jng a valid option if you aren't also a dueler? explain to me how Eve, for example, who can't fight anyone who is a duelist till 6 1 v 1 in the Jng is going to benefit from losing another jng mob.
: Why ask for feedback if every response is just defending the initial proposition you guys made {{sticker:sg-lux-2}}
because they don't actually care, they just want the good PR so the money train keeps on rollin. See GG MF skin and Eve's new trash Bloodmoon skin as examples. asked for feedback, got feedback that wasen't "you guys are awesome!!!" and did nothing. In one embarrassing move, they reset the karma counter on the Eve skin reddit post because it was so far in the negative, then locked it lmao.
: Upcoming Jungle Changes for 8.10
so pretty much, any Jng who can't duel early is DOA. Thanks Riot, we all love one tricking Kaz or WW so much. Ghost killing another game with his "modern updates" ala TF2
bàn (NA)
: then i guess youre just bad
> [{quoted}](name=bàn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=000500000000,timestamp=2017-10-24T17:05:03.889+0000) > > then i guess youre just bad no, Allure is out of place in her kit. It's a very cool ability, but it's wind up means late game you basically have to announce: "HELLO! I have found a flank! My team will be diving you in the next oh......5 or 6 seconds or so. Please do not be alarmed!" Honestly they could have just kept her Move Speed steroid on W, and I'd be much happier with the Kit.
bàn (NA)
: Because they can't 100-0 someone out of stealth anymore. "wahh Rito, I actually have to think and use my brain now to pull off a successful gank? This Eve rework sucks!"
> [{quoted}](name=bàn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-24T14:40:32.170+0000) > > Because they can't 100-0 someone out of stealth anymore. "wahh Rito, I actually have to think and use my brain now to pull off a successful gank? This Eve rework sucks!" well...that's not how she worked before so....
: Most of the complaints I've seen are from old Eve mains and losing pre6 stealth and the ability to rush in makes her pre6 ganking awful, which is pretty much the opposite of how she was before.
> [{quoted}](name=TwitchInMyPants,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-10-24T19:00:58.864+0000) > > Most of the complaints I've seen are from old Eve mains and losing pre6 stealth and the ability to rush in makes her pre6 ganking awful, which is pretty much the opposite of how she was before. my complaints are she doesn't do much mid or late game either. Allure is cool, but way out of place in her kit as a stealth assassin. It just feels like Im going "HI!!! I have a flank and am coming to kill you in the next 2 seconds or so....don't look!"
: One bad Eve who doesn’t know what to do with her does not speak for her. Besides that, Fiddle (as bad as he is currently) is not a good matchup for her. His silence dumpsters her kit, hard, and he sustains her early damage. If she was marking you she was playing the match wrong. She should have been focused on getting fed on someone else.
> [{quoted}](name=MangelinaJolie,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=000f0000,timestamp=2017-10-24T22:20:00.195+0000) > > One bad Eve who doesn’t know what to do with her does not speak for her. > > Besides that, Fiddle (as bad as he is currently) is not a good matchup for her. His silence dumpsters her kit, hard, and he sustains her early damage. > > If she was marking you she was playing the match wrong. She should have been focused on getting fed on someone else. honest question, what IS a good matchup for her in the Jg right now. Not being a dick, but half her problem is that while she has good clears, her Q refund not procing on champions means most AD junglers can just walk into her jungle and beat her to death pre 6, and there isn't much she can do about it if her inital Q rotation isn't enough to drive them off.
: > HAHAHAHA. Only if you have a lots of ap. Otherwise it just useless. Yes, unfortunately she is AD Auto-attacking Tank, so she's not going to have a lot of AP. I wish she was AP Assasin, would make it better. > Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat. Sustained _**damage**_
> [{quoted}](name=Velzard of Koz,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2017-10-24T20:21:54.752+0000) > > Yes, unfortunately she is AD Auto-attacking Tank, so she's not going to have a lot of AP. I wish she was AP Assasin, would make it better. > > Sustained _**damage**_ Riot says she is an AP assassin now. That is why her ratios are now awful for tanking. so no, she isn't an "ad auto attacking tank" as currently built. Honestly that would make her kit better, but they can't do that now without overhauling her AP scaling and they won't do that per meddler.
: > [{quoted}](name=VanaQuish,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2017-10-24T14:49:13.638+0000) > > Yea because we all know that assassin's job is to kill tanks. Also where the fk is her sustain on q? She has no sustain or at least in combat. If for some reason Evelynn is forced to focus the tank, she can do real damage to them, that they can't just ignore. Other assassins can barely do that. Also, nowadays it is so hard to actually go to the ADC and kill them, that you might as well just focus the closest target to you (which happens to be the frontline tanks most of time).
uh...she can do real damage to them...until she needs to wait for Q to come back. Then they ignore you/ pop you.
: I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE.
> [{quoted}](name=xxxMadLionxxx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-24T12:00:17.501+0000) > > She offers a real stalker experience if played right. She can hangout in the enemy jg undetected and ambush them. After taking some damage, she just has to retreat for a bit healing up once her passive kicks in. Once she is healed, she is at it again, looking for her next victim. > > Enemies will go crazy looking for her. Forming a man hunt while feeling unsafe because they know she is around in the shadows just waiting for them to split up. > > Yea she doesn't have burst at first. Thats fine because her passive gives her insane heal sustain. Its a fair trade off. Once you get {{item:3100}} and {{item:3135}} , her burst is real. > > The other notable thing is she can do some damage to tanks with her W MR pen. Her W plus the new void staff will be able to do 75% magic pen while dealing massive max health damage. After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q. > > Other assassin are not good vs tanks and don't have sustain heal. > > I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE. > [{quoted}](name=xxxMadLionxxx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rGUMEmWk,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-10-24T12:00:17.501+0000) > > She offers a real stalker experience if played right. She can hangout in the enemy jg undetected and ambush them. After taking some damage, she just has to retreat for a bit healing up once her passive kicks in. Once she is healed, she is at it again, looking for her next victim. > > Enemies will go crazy looking for her. Forming a man hunt while feeling unsafe because they know she is around in the shadows just waiting for them to split up. > > Yea she doesn't have burst at first. Thats fine because her passive gives her insane heal sustain. Its a fair trade off. Once you get {{item:3100}} and {{item:3135}} , her burst is real. > > The other notable thing is she can do some damage to tanks with her W MR pen. Her W plus the new void staff will be able to do 75% magic pen while dealing massive max health damage. After that she still has some sustain damage from her Q. > > Other assassin are not good vs tanks and don't have sustain heal. > > I don't get why everyone is complaining about EVE. Well, I think people are going over board, but her kit dopes have several major flaws. primarily, these are recoverable if you get really, really good with her but given that it's 1) a Tank Jg meta and 2) there are Jg champs (hi blue kayn) that do much of what she does, but better she's a hard pick to justify atm. 1st, and formost, they went WAY overboard with here Q being nerfed as a damage tool outside of the Jng. She is an AP assassin who, if you blow your load in a fight, has around 6 seconds of "I guess I'll just stand here and auto attack....if i can get to you. yes, there are other Jng champs with this rotation downtime, but they are mostly either 1) AD champs, so they don't care as much or 2) tanky, so they can stick to there target until there cooldowns start to cycle without you know, being popped like a squishy. 2nd, Allure, while cool, seems VERY out of place in a stealth assassins kit. If your ganking with it pre 6, your generally ok because your likely in lane because the enemy laner made a mistake and pushed up to far, got low health, ect and the slow is enough. Once your 6 though....it is REAL REAL annoying as a champ who strikes from the shadows to see someone you think you can flank from stealth...and have to give them a heads up your coming and your general direction. Also, unless the enemy laner is a turnip, they will likely attempt to make it as difficult as possible to land a Q on them, and lashers poor non-empowered range (225, for real Riot?) often makes even a full 2.5 second charged allure tough to pop. Last, here Ult, while really cool is on a clown shoes ridiculous cooldown based on what it does right now. 180 seconds for a very short range AOE and a flash back seems very punishing, particularly when you consider other movement + damage ults cool downs are far shorter. I also feel like either the range needs to go up on the forward arc, or the damage needs to go up on it for late game. Mid game, it's fine since you can pick/Tower dive with it. End game it's generally not going to kill enough people to justify her running in with it, and again W becomes a problem when you have to basically announce "We are engaging on you/ I have a flank from over here!" as the invisible assassin. Tl:dr - They need to fix Q, so she has something to do damage other than auto attacks for the 6 seconds when every skill she has is down. Also, I feel Allure is very out of place in her kit. honestly, if they did this rework and left her the old W movement speed steroid reset on kills, she'd be in a much better place.
Gulma (NA)
: you're not killing him. He builds tanky. How many other champions do that? Ahri? Leblanc? Zed?
> [{quoted}](name=Gulma,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=000800000000000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2016-05-09T04:48:18.987+0000) > > you're not killing him. He builds tanky. How many other champions do that? Ahri? Leblanc? Zed? those are mid laners. How many top laners build tank? a shitload. Tank ekko in the mid lane doesnt work, because zed? ahri? and leblanc? will murder him with poke if he goes tank first item not a mana/ ap item. Top, yes, it's a problem, but the new iceborn and other tank items have made ALOT of shit toxic top lane.
HayRoss (NA)
: Serious question: Who thought it was a good idea to give an AOE stun that lasts longer than a Morgana snare TO A FUCKING ASSASSIN and expected it to work out well?
> [{quoted}](name=HayRoss,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=KR2XgKgQ,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-05-08T14:32:28.813+0000) > > Serious question: > > Who thought it was a good idea to give an AOE stun that lasts longer than a Morgana snare TO A FUCKING ASSASSIN and expected it to work out well? it takes like 2.5 seconds to set up, and while you only see the AOE targeting effect at the last .5 seconds, the ekko clone splitting off and hitting the "bomb" into the air is tough to miss, if your actually looking for it. you could you know, move out of the AOE to avoid the stun. sure he still gets the shield to fight you with, but at least he won't get the stun.
3rd Age (EUW)
: nidalee isn't a toxic champ though evelynn is nidalee creates a more skirmishing game, extremely face paced constant fights evelynn forces you to sit under tower until laning phase is done until you can walk as a group of 5 for safety
> [{quoted}](name=3rd Age,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YV5wjEw0,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-04-29T11:15:33.483+0000) > > nidalee isn't a toxic champ though > > evelynn is > > nidalee creates a more skirmishing game, extremely face paced constant fights > > evelynn forces you to sit under tower until laning phase is done until you can walk as a group of 5 for safety yea, your the reason that she can't be strong. She isn't that hard to counter, if you know how to ward. Before 6, you ward her camps. If your red side, get an early ward on her golems at around minute 3. She will 9/10 take golems again before the gank. You can also ward her birds, but that's tough for bot without mid lane on comms. After 6, buy a pink ward. "bu...but she'll just clear it!" yes, and she will be visible doing it for 5 hits. This means in a perfect world, you start pinging the fuck out of your Jung to come to you, and counter gank the shit out of her, or (if he's around) collapse on her. She honestly isn't that bad to deal with, but Riot isn't going to go "uhh, learn to ward better" to the vast majority of players
: Let's face it, Riot hates Evelynn, because if that were ready the case, Ekko would've never been buffed, Kalista would continue to be nerfed, Yasuo would be receiving 12 nerfs in one patch and Zed would also continue to get nerfed. But nooooo, it's all about the Riot favoritism. Riot ready hates the Shadow Isles huh, first Evelynn, then it's Mordekaiser, then it's Hecarim, then Karthus, and finally Kalista. Of course, Thresh has immunity because he makes the #MADLIFELC$BIGPLAYS that Riot loves so much.
> [{quoted}](name=RefurbishedIce,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YV5wjEw0,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-29T14:11:22.526+0000) > > Let's face it, Riot hates Evelynn, because if that were ready the case, Ekko would've never been buffed, Kalista would continue to be nerfed, Yasuo would be receiving 12 nerfs in one patch and Zed would also continue to get nerfed. But nooooo, it's all about the Riot favoritism. Riot ready hates the Shadow Isles huh, first Evelynn, then it's Mordekaiser, then it's Hecarim, then Karthus, and finally Kalista. Of course, Thresh has immunity because he makes the #MADLIFELC$BIGPLAYS that Riot loves so much. Riot hates work. They made her super strong with the vision changes, and reworking her kit around the new vision system would be alot of work. Solution: just nerf the fuck out of her and dumpster her until they think enough people would buy her once reworked.
: "We nerfed Evelynn because people with a lot of experience on her had a high winrate"
> [{quoted}](name=Simon Blackquill,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YV5wjEw0,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-04-29T10:43:56.854+0000) > > Nidalee gutting where? > > http://champion.gg/champion/Nidalee/Jungle > > 61% winrate with people who have 125+ games > > Edit: > > Since people are wondering where the quote is from: > > http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/bKd1UWQl-meddler-can-we-please-get-some-context-on-the-eve-nerfs?comment=0003 here is what a Riot employee who was being honest would say: "yea, so with the vision changes, and how people below gold never fucking pink ward, she's cancer. We are tired of the bitching everytime she is even a bit strong, and people aren't going to learn to ward better at lower elo's, where the vast majority of our player base resides. So suck it up." The problem is, as long as her Stealth is a passive available from level 1 like it is, they are never going to let her be even a little strong, since her ganks early before pink wards can even be bought is to good. As a (former) eve main who loves the champ, I wish they would hurry the fuck up with the rework. Would be so simple. Just tie her Stealth passive to her ult. Can't get it till 6 (prevents early ganks) and while the Ult is down, she can't stealth (gives about a minute window after ganks where she can be hunted down/ can't move around to set up another gank with good vision around)
Bellows (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Malix Farwin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=24s4vcdp,comment-id=0005000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-28T13:53:04.078+0000) > > Not reallt, the only people who gloat in 4v5 games are people who do not win otherwise, ive never trashed talked someone in a 4v5 game and most people say "sorry for your DC" so if you are using that argument then it falls short. i dont believe you. I dont beleive anyone like i said, who says that. Theres been times everyone has gloated in a 4v5.
> [{quoted}](name=xAurelionxSolx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=24s4vcdp,comment-id=00050000000000000000,timestamp=2016-04-28T14:03:09.922+0000) > > i dont believe you. I dont beleive anyone like i said, who says that. Theres been times everyone has gloated in a 4v5. uhh nope. You are alone in your dickness. Why would i gloat in a 4 v 5? it blows, and i've been there. no skill to having an extra person, and smashing them cause you have more people.
: There are some champions that I feel this game would actually become better if Riot just removed them entirely, and Ekko is one of them.
> [{quoted}](name=Triple K Maf1a,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NqZbVlAR,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-27T15:26:16.204+0000) > > There are some champions that I feel this game would actually become better if Riot just removed them entirely, and Ekko is one of them. yea, it's "everyone with a good kit who I don't play is bullshit, should be removed" Can't imagine why Riot doesn't snap to and delete every champ but Yorrik
: Her entire kit is toxic as fuck and should never exist in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=The Deckowner,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbEqPsvN,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-19T04:17:52.146+0000) > > Her entire kit is toxic as fuck and should never exist in the game. He's fine as long as Riot would stop you know, forgetting that with his passive, if you up his damage ratios he's just going to go full tank top. Mid lane Ekko was fine before the buffs, as an ekko player he felt balanced to play. Then they stupidly put his base percentages up, and his % of hp damage on his passive to "fight tanks better!" apparently not realizing they just in fact made him a fantastic tank who deals way to much damage and has to much utility. As an Ekko Mid, looks like overall I might get a buff (that he does not need) out of it to AP Ekko, as they are about to nuke Tank Ekko into the dust on the PBE, but are putting his AP scaling way back up to compensate for the base damage reduction. Which, sinc I play him mid and don't mind him being squishy, I'm quite fine with.
: "Balanced" SUUUUUUUURE
> [{quoted}](name=WingedWinter,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbEqPsvN,comment-id=00070000000100000000,timestamp=2016-04-19T16:33:12.825+0000) > > "Balanced" SUUUUUUUURE non-tank ekko is fine. Blame riot for not going through the critical thinking of "wait, if we buff his %health damage to help him fight tanks, won't people just play him top with our absolutely stupid grasp of the undying mastery and tank items as a tank who now has crazy utility and %health damage?" They are about to try to correct that though, PBE has his base damages and passive, while making him a more feast or famine mid laner. They are also nerfing grasp, which top lane meta needs desperately.
: > [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbEqPsvN,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-19T06:24:47.818+0000) > > Reminds me of ekko's release . . . oh wait riot buffed him to pick/ban status again. > Seriously how hard is it for them to realize overloading makes it impossible to balance? Not exactly impossible. Riot just have a habit of buffing a champ for no apparent reason.
> [{quoted}](name=NaniI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbEqPsvN,comment-id=00070000,timestamp=2016-04-19T06:26:55.615+0000) > > Not exactly impossible. Riot just have a habit of buffing a champ for no apparent reason. it wasn't the buff that did it, i think mid ekko actually needed some love. The problem was, as usual, Riot didn't think "Will reworking his damage and ratios fuck anything up with regards to item builds in other lanes/ situations?" and tank top ekko is a decided "Yes. Yes they will."
: Reminds me of ekko's release . . . oh wait riot buffed him to pick/ban status again. Seriously how hard is it for them to realize overloading makes it impossible to balance?
> [{quoted}](name=ZT Xperimentor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=dbEqPsvN,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-04-19T06:24:47.818+0000) > > Reminds me of ekko's release . . . oh wait riot buffed him to pick/ban status again. > Seriously how hard is it for them to realize overloading makes it impossible to balance? They really didn't though. The problem with ekko right now is how grasp of the undying, ice born, and the other reworked tank items work with his passive, not the slight buffs he got. Tank Ekko is about to be DOA though, if the changes to his kit and the items he uses goes live from the PBE if it makes you feel better. AP Mid ekko is getting a slight buff off it though (his base damages and %health is going down, but AP ratios are going back up to make him more glass cannon again) , but the horror that is Tank Ekko should be pretty over soon.
: Then you log in to play her......only to find out her ingame is no where near as good as the splash.
> [{quoted}](name=Von Revanchist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jKopykX2,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-04-13T19:52:36.652+0000) > > Then you log in to play her......only to find out her ingame is no where near as good as the splash. The've been talking about her kit getting a rework and a VU for a bit. I would expect this means that at sometime in the next year or so, we'll start seeing more on that. With the way they reworked vision, her kit's in a bad spot. They can never have it strong, in anyway, because at lower ELO's, no one pink wards. Riot isn't going to tell a huge portion of it's player base to "play better" so the perma stealth has to go. I would link it to her Ult, something like she doesn't get Stealth passive till she has her Ult, and when her Ult is on cooldown, she can't stealth. Would give her a minute or so after ganks where she could be tracked down. Would make it so they can actually balance her kit around her not having an OP early game with her perma stealth, not just nerf it everytime it gets slightly strong.
: > [{quoted}](name=Yousosmart,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=jKopykX2,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-04-13T18:44:54.579+0000) > > B-B-But her boobies... They aren't DD's anymore... Even I have to agree that she is the kind of lady that needs big tits, it's part of her character. just like Darius has massive arms.
Dude, she's leaning back in a tight bra, and is still popping it dat chest out. She clearly still has like, C's or so. I like this look, wouldn't make sense for her to have huge double D's with that body frame, but it's not like they gave her the Jinx treatment and gave her A cups. They just made her body proportional.
: Cataclysm was the beginning of the end of WoW and the worst mistake Blizzard has ever injected into their former masterpiece. I understand the new races being fun for some, but for me, Its only redeeming quality was transmogging. And we antisocial douchebags, being antisocial, have a right to be bitter and irate about the direction Riot wants to force League matchmaking in. The other side from a gameplay perspective, have a right to be furious about the idiotic gameplay and balance choices they've decided on following through - or doing nothing at all about - starting with the juggernaut catastrophe leading up to this point.
> [{quoted}](name=Keevalroy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5E4pnUW5,comment-id=000a0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-24T23:24:45.334+0000) > > Cataclysm was the beginning of the end of WoW and the worst mistake Blizzard has ever injected into their former masterpiece. I understand the new races being fun for some, but for me, Its only redeeming quality was transmogging. > > And we antisocial douchebags, being antisocial, have a right to be bitter and irate about the direction Riot wants to force League matchmaking in. The other side from a gameplay perspective, have a right to be furious about the idiotic gameplay and balance choices they've decided on following through - or doing nothing at all about - starting with the juggernaut catastrophe leading up to this point. WoW was already dropping off by Cata. That was 6 freaking years after Vanilla Wow. That's already an incredible run for an MMO, and people were already moving on to "the next big thing" which is the cycle of video game life, as I'm sure your aware. As of 4Q, 2015 they reported they still had 5.8 Million active, paying subs. Thats freaking 75 Million a month for a 12 year old IP. Trust me, they are doing backflips still. once it drops under 3 Million suckers paying for a 12 year old game, they will likely go FTP, and out of nowhere, WoW2 or World of Starcraft will be announced. The beginning of the end for WoW was time. Find me another subscription based game which has retained 40% or so of it's high water mark 12 years later. I'll wait. The same thing will happen to League. Other MOBA's are already taking players away. They can slow that, I guess, but until League 2 is announced, they will slowly lose people as they move on to the next big game.
: lmao You do realize Lissandra is being picked left and right in competitive play right now right
> [{quoted}](name=FalconPawwwwnch,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BaERNqKe,comment-id=0011,timestamp=2016-03-15T19:26:07.050+0000) > > lmao > > You do realize Lissandra is being picked left and right in competitive play right now right for her ult in team fights. Pro play right now is all just passive farming and lane swaps till 15-20 minutes in, since everyone is terrified of giving up an early multi kill in the snow ball meta. That gives her enough time to get moro and get moving on a zonyas. So you are right, Liss is a very good competitive pick right now, because her early to mid laning problems don't matter that much to pro teams. Any early pressure they give up mid, they'll happily cover for her to get that ult later, because it breaks open team fights. For those of us who want to play her but not might have 4 other teammates willing to do a "carry the liss to team fights" comp, it kinda sucks to play her anywhere but top right now. There are just to many AP mages that are way more likely to snowball a game out of control, which is what everyone is looking for.
: Lissandra's passive is good.
> [{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BaERNqKe,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2016-03-15T16:28:45.042+0000) > > Lissandra's passive is good. meh, it is and it isn't. For Top lane liss, it's fine because you aren't in the short lane pushing waves. In mid, it kinda sucks, because her mana costs are way to much early. Against anything with sustain, she's SOL. that's the problem though. in one lane, it's quite nice, poke on top of poke.
Anraton (EUW)
: Lissandras passive has a 18 sec cd (ignoring cd reduction on applying cc) -> 1 out of 6 spells is free if you spam permanent ... you have to that that into account Yes Xerath has a mana regen passiv but .. how often you really use it in a non lane environment?
> [{quoted}](name=Anraton,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BaERNqKe,comment-id=000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2016-03-15T15:31:32.484+0000) > > Lissandras passive has a 18 sec cd (ignoring cd reduction on applying cc) -> 1 out of 6 spells is free if you spam permanent ... you have to that that into account > > Yes Xerath has a mana regen passiv but .. how often you really use it in a non lane environment? After lane, everyone has a mana fixer in Moro or Grail, so who gives a fuck?
: im p sure thats because tsm was so mcuh better than that team that they just had a 4fun match
> [{quoted}](name=doombotMECHA,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=bAEfAKAn,comment-id=0006000100020000000000000001,timestamp=2016-03-15T12:47:55.916+0000) > > im p sure thats because tsm was so mcuh better than that team that they just had a 4fun match I'm p sure you don't know what your talking about. At the time, TSM and C9 pretty much were the NA LCS. Hai's pick was actually genius, Teemo's shrooms got nerfed for AP next patch. All C9 did in the win was use Hai's mid lane teemo to wall off every neutral objective when TSM's comp, a hard engage comp they had been abusing for weeks prior, wanted to fight. Result was most of the time C9 would show up with half TSM posined, re shroom the corridor TSM walked through, and fight them in shrooms. By the end, TSM wouldn't even walk down lane without sweepers. Then the next patch, Teemo's AP ratio got nerfed on his shrooms, and he was never seen again lol.
Shiropan (EUW)
: > [{quoted}](name=Manadar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-03-04T01:02:12.323+0000) > > No logic in this post. > > 1. "flaming from the 4 man team". If you do poorly all of your team will flame you, doesn't matter if they are grouped or not. > > 2. "never getting any helped when i get camped by the enemy 4 man team". Once again no logic. If you assume people (grouped OR solo) queing for ranked want to WIN it is in their best interest to help you not feed the enemy. > > 3. "the 4 man dives, the LCS strats like lane swaps, the jungler comming to my lane to deny me a big creep wave" Wow, people playing competitively in ranked matches shouldn't be allowed by Riot. > > You're right, bring back soloq and call it Safe Space que. You are too dumb to even know what logic is. 1. If you do poorly on solo que, maybe 1 retard will flame, very rarely 2 (unless they are premade duo) however if you do poorly with the new retarded 4 premade fucktards on your team mode, then sadly you will be fucking crucified on spot by at least 3 of them. Most of the times the loss is even due to them as they fail to get anything good out of having the whole enemy team away from the mid and bot side of the map meanwhile the enemy 5 premade or 4 premade will just abuse the system by just feeding off of the solo player until they become unstoppable due to the current lol changes making the game snowball 3x as fast as previous seasons. (Thank you LoL Nexus and similar sites for showing who the solo players is) 2. What i said on the previous point + the 4 man team will not even notice a top laner who isn't on their voice chat. All they want to do is have fun and try to 4 man the game like playing normals. They do want to win, but they think their voice chat during a teamfight or in general is good enough. (They are all Fakers or Apdo apparently) 3. All the strats simply ruin the life of solo quers, it is unfair to them as they cannot use the same strats even if they wanted to because their own 4 ppl premade will do whatever the fuck they want and you just have to follow them and hope they don't fuck up. If you want to become better at team communication and high level strats then play 5v5 premade where you will not have an unfair advantage over others. But you're right, lets not think with our brains and simply say 1 word : Logic.
> [{quoted}](name=Shiropan,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2016-03-04T08:33:42.358+0000) > > You are too dumb to even know what logic is. > > 1. If you do poorly on solo que, maybe 1 retard will flame, very rarely 2 (unless they are premade duo) however if you do poorly with the new retarded 4 premade fucktards on your team mode, then sadly you will be fucking crucified on spot by at least 3 of them. Most of the times the loss is even due to them as they fail to get anything good out of having the whole enemy team away from the mid and bot side of the map meanwhile the enemy 5 premade or 4 premade will just abuse the system by just feeding off of the solo player until they become unstoppable due to the current lol changes making the game snowball 3x as fast as previous seasons. (Thank you LoL Nexus and similar sites for showing who the solo players is) so hit tab and mute them. You already say all premade teams don't ping or communicate in your fantasy land, so who cares if you have chat on? and if the enemy premade is "feasting off the solo player" then they are losing towers left and right since they aren't in there lanes. I also love how for this point your pretending no one roams and dives in "true" solo que lmao. > 2. What i said on the previous point + the 4 man team will not even notice a top laner who isn't on their voice chat. All they want to do is have fun and try to 4 man the game like playing normals. They do want to win, but they think their voice chat during a teamfight or in general is good enough. (They are all Fakers or Apdo apparently) bullshit, and contradictory. The solo warriors in this thread can't decide if the premades are just fucking around and thus "not true ranked players", or if it's OP because they are losing to the premades due to "OP skype communication". Honestly what you guys really mean is: "I'm normally a toxic player with good mechanics who just tries to get kills and carry, and I don't like that I actually have to play in a team game now and consider actual strategy" So which is it? > > 3. All the strats simply ruin the life of solo quers, it is unfair to them as they cannot use the same strats even if they wanted to because their own 4 ppl premade will do whatever the fuck they want and you just have to follow them and hope they don't fuck up. If you want to become better at team communication and high level strats then play 5v5 premade where you will not have an unfair advantage over others. so basically you want to play team death match with no strats. K. CS:go is available for your needs. > > But you're right, lets not think with our brains and simply say 1 word : Logic. considering you haven't used logic once, this is quite the charge to throw out at him.
: Hmm someone needs to get carried by friends every game lol
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2016-03-04T18:05:42.373+0000) > > Hmm someone needs to get carried by friends every game lol hmmmm someones a dick in ranked and doesn't like that it matters now since his teamates shut down on him.
DannyD (NA)
: I have played this game since the end of season 1 and I hate to say it but lets be honest here guys, Riot does not give a shit. If sales continue to rise then they will simply have no need to focus on customer service. This means no increased experience gain or IP gains for newer players will be implemented any time soon as long as these newer players are spending RP to avoid the stupid IP farm. The sooner you guys realize they don't give a shit, the better it will be for you.
> [{quoted}](name=DannyD,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=0013,timestamp=2016-03-04T16:17:04.278+0000) > > I have played this game since the end of season 1 and I hate to say it but lets be honest here guys, Riot does not give a shit. If sales continue to rise then they will simply have no need to focus on customer service. This means no increased experience gain or IP gains for newer players will be implemented any time soon as long as these newer players are spending RP to avoid the stupid IP farm. The sooner you guys realize they don't give a shit, the better it will be for you. actually, this is one time where they did give a shit. Data overwhelmingly shows that people wanted to play ranked, but often would skip it because they had more than 1 friend on, but not enough for a 5 man. I hear pretty much overwhelming praise of dynamic and getting your lane, and for those that really think they are getting fucked because they play solo, "true solo" will come back. It just isn't a priority because the majority of the feedback has been Dynamic que is going fine.
: Even in Bronze you would be surprised how well a team can coordinate when they are all in instant communication. Mixing solo players with premades simply reduces the agency the solo player has in determining the outcome of the game and is ruining ranked
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=000e0000,timestamp=2016-03-04T18:07:57.890+0000) > > Even in Bronze you would be surprised how well a team can coordinate when they are all in instant communication. Mixing solo players with premades simply reduces the agency the solo player has in determining the outcome of the game and is ruining ranked here, let me solve that for you, as someone who solo's and groups with 2, 3 or 4 people. "Hi, im solo, you guys a group?" "yea, we 4 man premade" "cool, add me to skype if you want, and remember to ping for me! :)" "will do" I have had like, a 90% success rate with this start so far, even at my awful elo. I have to believe the higher up you go where people are already used to playing more team based in solo que, it gets even easier.
: How do you manage midlane nowadays? I can't play mid anymore. 4/5 games the mid/jg are duo and if I get the slightest lead in lane I get permacamped and I don't have enough wards to do anything about it. It's like personal skill hardly matters anymore if you're premade
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ixcTEj91,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2016-03-04T18:09:31.054+0000) > > How do you manage midlane nowadays? I can't play mid anymore. 4/5 games the mid/jg are duo and if I get the slightest lead in lane I get permacamped and I don't have enough wards to do anything about it. > > It's like personal skill hardly matters anymore if you're premade what an asinine statement, of course it does. What people don't like who refuse to talk to their teammates and figure out what they are doing as a team is that you can't just play solo que dethmatch, and actually have to rotate, ward, use strats, ect in lower elo now. It isn't that hard to say "hey, I'm solo, you guys grouped?" in the lobby and figure it out man.
: Seems strange to me, I've had nothing but good experiences with this.
likely because you aren't a dick. I solo que all the time, and have been doing fine, I ask right in champ select "you guys grouped?" and if they say something like "yea, we have 3, me, b and c" I say something like "cool, if you guys are on skype, add me if you want. If not remember to ping please, me and D aren't" so far, nearly every game, they do, and we have a good game. I'm sure if I just stayed silent and then started to rage when they didn't include me in shit, I would hate it. Vice Versa, when we have a dynamic que going, I make sure to tell the other people int he lobby what's going on. You get like 5 minutes now between all the new shit, it isn't that hard to figure it out.
: > [{quoted}](name=Little Mac is OP,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WP0yvft2,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2016-03-02T19:59:30.861+0000) > > What he's saying is true but not very clear > > Basically if you want to climb in low elo, you have to actually win. A lot of players go "I don't feed and I farm my lane and I try to focus on not making mistakes but my team always feeds". Instead of playing their lane safe and last hitting because they're afraid of feeding the jungler, they need to be aggressive and take advantages and force the enemy to respond to them. > > However, when you get higher up, people don't get thrown off by aggression and you get fucked for it. Gaining an advantage is meaningless when you don't know how to use it, which would be the same as playing without an advantage. If you ever notice, a lot of people complaining about being Bronze/Silver sometimes have high average kda, farm and have a gold lead often but still lose more than half the time. You're more likely to win with an objective focus, especially since lower ranked players don't respond to objective pressure that well. I had several games where I was already at their Nexus tower by 22 minutes solo. I didn't join fights, I didn't try killing anyone, I didn't gain much of an advantage other than what the towers gave.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WP0yvft2,comment-id=000200010000,timestamp=2016-03-02T20:12:32.991+0000) > > Gaining an advantage is meaningless when you don't know how to use it, which would be the same as playing without an advantage. If you ever notice, a lot of people complaining about being Bronze/Silver sometimes have high average kda, farm and have a gold lead often but still lose more than half the time. You're more likely to win with an objective focus, especially since lower ranked players don't respond to objective pressure that well. I had several games where I was already at their Nexus tower by 22 minutes solo. I didn't join fights, I didn't try killing anyone, I didn't gain much of an advantage other than what the towers gave. I feel like you are saying the exact same thing the OP is saying. You are correct, but his point was in low Elo trying to do this on your own means you'll just lose as your team won't display the coordination needed to do what your suggesting, I.e the proper strategy.
: > [{quoted}](name=TheThundersRoar,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WP0yvft2,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-03-02T19:46:07.477+0000) > **The traits you need to exhibit to stay at a higher Elo don't allow you to climb out of lower Elo.** Not really true. Just play for objectives and constantly take towers.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Yamazuki,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WP0yvft2,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-03-02T19:53:34.885+0000) > > Not really true. Just play for objectives and constantly take towers. Which people in low elo don't do as a team, because alot of people in low elo all want to make it team death match. That's his point, and he is correct.
: True, though to be fair she has some pretty fat (large hit box) skill shots and three mini flashes so it's pretty hard to miss when she when she wants to assassinate, not to mention 1/3 of her damage is garaunteeded (W and R). My main issues with her is she is way too safe for a assassin-ish champ. She will probably be fine in lane (sustain/wave clear) and really hard to gank when she hits 6. Once she's made enough for an item, it's off to bot lane. If she gets a kill, nice; if not, no worries. Just play like a Mage until ults back up.
> [{quoted}](name=Raven Redeemed,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UqVXKvHe,comment-id=000900010000000100010001,timestamp=2016-02-24T23:09:54.854+0000) > > True, though to be fair she has some pretty fat (large hit box) skill shots and three mini flashes so it's pretty hard to miss when she when she wants to assassinate, not to mention 1/3 of her damage is garaunteeded (W and R). > > My main issues with her is she is way too safe for a assassin-ish champ. She will probably be fine in lane (sustain/wave clear) and really hard to gank when she hits 6. Once she's made enough for an item, it's off to bot lane. If she gets a kill, nice; if not, no worries. Just play like a Mage until ults back up. Just because she has mobility doesn't make her an assassin. She is a mage with mobility.
: she doesnt need her charm anymore. her charm is almost useless. its damage is almost insignificant its cc is nice but she doesnt really need it in trades. her q goes through minions and now the charm has no damage amp so landing it is hardly neccesary
> [{quoted}](name=Mattboy2000,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=UqVXKvHe,comment-id=000900010000000100010000,timestamp=2016-02-24T22:54:12.105+0000) > > she doesnt need her charm anymore. **her charm is almost useless**. its damage is almost insignificant its cc is nice but she doesnt really need it in trades. her q goes through minions and now the charm has no damage amp so landing it is hardly neccesary - lol wat mate? As an ahri main, the Charm is what makes her terrifying in team fights, because you can use if to combo off of any other CC you have. Ahri's charm isn't useless because it doesn't do damage, it's one of the most reliable CC's in the entire fucking game homie lol.
Vistha Kai (EUNE)
: Whenever it's harder or easier, that is situational. Energy is better for burst, but it's awful in prolonged fights.
> [{quoted}](name=Vistha Kai,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nfnTATUE,comment-id=0001000100000000,timestamp=2016-02-24T14:44:13.910+0000) > > Whenever it's harder or easier, that is situational. > > Energy is better for burst, but it's awful in prolonged fights. oh yea, it really hurts him when he gets into those long poke fights huh? "energy is awful in fights Zed never takes"
Aerothal (NA)
: A friendly reminder: THE TRIBUNAL HAS BEEN IN RECESS FOR 2 YEARS NOW!
> [{quoted}](name=Aerothal,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=jqEJ5PAX,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-02-23T23:06:45.203+0000) > > 2 years. no joke. > I mean if you are not interested in bringing it back just say so! > If you are truly happy with the automated system by all means, make it permanent. > But don't tell us that the Tribunal is being revamped if it isn't! > Whats the point? > > If you are working on it give us updates, please! Soon (Tm)
: 4 Adc's do not out burst a Katarina; she's an assassin. When was the last time you saw an Adc out burst something like Zed, Annie, Rengar, Talon, you get the point. As for Alistar, that's still not enough. His pulverize has a cast animation, which means yi can actually dodge it with his Q if he has skills. You wanna beat 4 Adc's? Pick an assassin. Too bad the boards hate them, always wishing they would be nerfed into the ground, as was the case with Rengar recently. I love the Adc meta. Give me more I can kill as Udyr and Rengar... yum.
> [{quoted}](name=Apocyliptic,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=s1ROXKwa,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-02-22T18:59:11.228+0000) > > 4 Adc's do not out burst a Katarina; she's an assassin. When was the last time you saw an Adc out burst something like Zed, Annie, Rengar, Talon, you get the point. > > As for Alistar, that's still not enough. His pulverize has a cast animation, which means yi can actually dodge it with his Q if he has skills. > > You wanna beat 4 Adc's? Pick an assassin. Too bad the boards hate them, always wishing they would be nerfed into the ground, as was the case with Rengar recently. > > I love the Adc meta. Give me more I can kill as Udyr and Rengar... yum. Most games. Have you played in this season? the ADC rework is kinda a thing. All that team needs is a CC based support, like Ali or Leo, and they would shit on a kat or yi.
Vistha Kai (EUNE)
: The thing is, in practice she never needed any compensation for removing DFG and Charm damage amp. Also, your sarcastic response on what we'd want next is the opposite of what we are asking. Increasing damage on auto-targetting spell is exactly that.
uh, she absolutely did. They had nerfed her around that item, so with it removed, she needed power added back into her kit. Also, DFG had defaulted her into assassin play styles, so with it gone, they had to rebalance her into a Mage. Honestly, i think she was fine pre Charm nerf, but I knew it was coming since she has developed into a go to pick to lock down mobility mids, and has mobility herself. They aren't going to let her do both.
: Yes.I agree.She has free mobility.
> [{quoted}](name=Akatsuki Deidara,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rEqItqEl,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-02-17T17:05:19.665+0000) > > Yes.I agree.She has free mobility. What server do you play on where her Q has no mana cost or cooldown? It's a small duration buff off the Q. just bait the Q, then all in her if your worried about her kiting you. Ahri is fine right now, she's one of the only AP mages you can say that about. She has clear windows (ult down, pre 6, the 5-8 second window after whiffing her only CC) and she has a defined playstyle that reads "Mage"
: So how would your suggested changes fix anything about that? He's still going to do the same thing except be 10x more annoying to play as with needless conditionals tied to his kit that wouldn't even affect experienced Zed players. If you're going to suggest changes at least make them logical without adding needless complexity.
well since they won't put him on a resource, I would either: 1. change his passive, it's stupid and half the problem. He has a minion execute, so he really doesn't suffer from being pushed under tower (the normal counter to zoning like his), so he doesn't care if you and your jung invest time to push the wave. He'll just farm under tower and work on farm till he chips you off/ you have to leave due to lack of early sustain, a problem he never has to deal with. 2. Make his shadows decay faster under tower, as the OP said. the second toxic thing he can do is get free poke under YOUR tower when he has you pushed in because of #1.
: These 2 champs really aren't comparable, but for what it's worth squishies can't even think about coming within ~600 units of Annie for all of mid game, whereas with Zed you can still dodge his spells and trade with him
oh really? how do you dodge his ult or e? you mean dodge his Q, his one skill shot?
: Don't forget that he's also basically shit late game if you don't feed him. He has loads of kill pressure early on, so you have to play pretty damn safely for a bit, but if you don't let him get fed he's pretty easy to beat.
uhhh i guess if you don't type: "Hey guys, go mid, im gonna split push. stay under tower" then yea, he's SUPER useless late game. but if you have the ability to tell your team to stall while you split push with the ability to dual most champs who come to stop you, or run if you see more than one person leave the seige mid then you should be fine. He's toxic man. the lack of a multi person knock up on his ult doesn't balance him.
: ***
oh yea, real tough to zone with W and hit that Q. i don't know how Zed players manage it.
: it isnt jsut zed riot has litterally made a 180 on everything they did since season 3 back to 20 picks in an assassin meta just where we started 2 seasons back a meta most players did not like so it got changed then in season 5 they got damn near close to a good balanced game state But we can't have that now can we . . .
> [{quoted}](name=Spoofghoul,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aujrZwcW,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-02-03T11:44:52.419+0000) > > it isnt jsut zed riot has litterally made a 180 on everything they did since season 3 > > back to 20 picks in an assassin meta just where we started 2 seasons back a meta most players did not like so it got changed then in season 5 they got damn near close to a good balanced game state > But we can't have that now can we > . . . nope, because it was "too boring" for the lcs veiwers, because the tank meta was more about objective control, not #LC$BIGPLAY$ ironically, so far the whole "lets make everyone a snowball king, and make winning or losing early game team fights super important!" has lead to the most boring LCS i've seen so far, because players are even MORE terrified of losing an early team fight, since it's so snowbally now. Teams don't want those early fights, because they know how much losing them and giving a assassin/adc 2 kills will hurt them. Games now are pretty much even worse farm fests, and with the lack of vision, everyone plays super, super safe. LCS right now is "who after 6 will hit the first successful gank mid or bot, and then play safe as hell and farm to protect that snowball?" I mean, teams are now pretty much as a rule conceding bot and top towers just to get a safer lanning phase/ early trade on global gold. That's always been a strategy teams do of course, but now it's pretty much just expected. For all the "strategy" involved, the pro games should just start with a tower down in each lane and the teams awarded the global gold.
: I mean most mages play it safe during laning phase too. Look at {{champion:99}} who just farms under tower/off screen all game until her jungler ganks. And unlike Zed she has strong teamfight, insane late game, and can actually do something if she doesn't have kills.
> [{quoted}](name=Jelly Mac,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=aujrZwcW,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2016-02-03T08:09:54.146+0000) > > I mean most mages play it safe during laning phase too. Look at {{champion:99}} who just farms under tower/off screen all game until her jungler ganks. And unlike Zed she has strong teamfight, insane late game, and can actually do something if she doesn't have kills. yea, she has this thing called "mana" it forces her to pick between pushing wave out or losing CS under tower. Zed's problem isn't his power spike at 6. it's the insanely strong lanning phase he has to get there.
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Crownsy

Level 69 (NA)
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