: They'll release it after her official release on live servers.
True, we technically don't have all the info yet. However, between her reveal, her VO, and her insights blog post, there hasn't been a single mention of her family or her old story. Pretty safe to say it all got canned, calling it now.
: Hey Riot, what gives? You said you weren't doing blank-slate retcons, but now you've Trundled Poppy.
Okay, but what about her actual lore? What happened to her dad? Why doesn't she know Galio anymore? Also, she TOTALLY sounds timid and uncertain, very much unlike the go-get-'em basher from before. They kept the "whatever it takes" attitude, though, which is nice.
: I know shes meant to be a top laner but how bout mid lane illaoi like an immobile control mage/bruiser kind of thing
Too much of midlane lacks walls, hampering her tentacles' prowess.
Shénzhì (EUW)
: #@Riot Finally a female champion with visible muscles! So what does this make Riven? Why has Riven not developed any muscles? I'm pretty sure Riven's sword can be heavier AND she constantly dashes and dives. No muscles Riven. **Is Riven ill?**
Vi, Sej, and Leona are also pretty odd in terms of how their body types relate to what they're actually doing, but progress comes in small steps.
: *readies to get downvoted Gratz to people who wanted a character like this. Unfortunately she's not catered to my tastes so she's a pass for me.
That's fine; there are already plenty of champs who cater to more standard tastes. Diversifying is good on a number of fronts.
: The Making of the Madman
"I don’t know that he’ll ever drastically change, taking his history into consideration." "I don’t think we’d change anything core. You can be damn sure he’d keep that colorful skin and good ol’ Mundo charm." I remember hearing these sorts of promises before the Trundle rework, and we all know what happened there. Why should we believe this now? Reworks have been completely all over the place in terms of hitting the mark, thematically, and there's still so little being done to really take the community into consideration.
Riot Jag (NA)
: Those are the correct type of responses we'd like to have. Keep in mind though, that often champions with high waveclear will tend to be champions that are squishy (they probably bought AD/AP items to clear), and the 10% Damage increase on Doom's Eve will give plenty of threat as a response.
: Any chance of a Malzahar rework? He really needs it
I love current Malz!... and he really doesn't work after a certain Elo. Hate to say it, but he really does just need to be changed outright.
: shhhhhhh whats a {{champion:82}} ? Is it like a {{champion:69}}? As sad as it is he is the next Cass at this point. Reworked poorly and then left to rot.
Even with the same "oh no, big things came up and now we can't focus on him more! Whoops, he's forgotten now, what a shame" eventuality lol. But, idk, maybe Riot will eventually learn to involve community feedback before major champion remakes, kit or lorewise.
Meddler (NA)
: We haven't decided which class to tackle after marksmen. Assassins are definitely a possibility, but still just one of several options we're talking about. If doing assassins we'd definitely want to sync an Akali rework with that of course.
You're right, sorry. I knew that, no clue why I wrote "the next" as opposed to "a possible next". I'm pretty sure supports and tanks were mentioned, too.
Meddler (NA)
: We don't have a timeline for Akali at present. Could be a moderate time after Shen, could be a long time after.
I remember an assassin overpass being mentioned elsewhere as a possible next big project after juggers/marksmen. That seems like the best time for an Akali rework; she doesn't need it so badly that it can't wait 'til then.
: Riot, when do you plan on working with the Champs who's lore got destroyed ?
: I would like to see something for Fiddlesticks, he was my first main and the very first champ I bought back when I started. He's always kinda had a special place for me.
Same, favorite and main since Season 1. I got hooked on Fiddles back when his E could bounce 10 times. I love his "nobody knows what my deal is but everyone is terrified as hell" vibe, though his in-game goofiness is also quite fun.
NemeBro (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Cuix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pw2gAPN8,comment-id=000c00000001000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T02:51:49.596+0000) > > That's exactly what I mean. Leona, Shen, Rammus, and Braum are all human-sized in lore, but are just as much tanks as Cho, Malph, or Sejuani. However, if size correlates to tankiness, then there's a problem there. Braum is gigantic in the lore, possibly the largest of the human-like champions. His model's too small IMHO. It should be more around the size of Sion's.
Please tell me you don't think Braum should be near the same size as Cho, Malph, or Sejuani + Bristles.
: how is limiting? rammus is small.
That's exactly what I mean. Leona, Shen, Rammus, and Braum are all human-sized in lore, but are just as much tanks as Cho, Malph, or Sejuani. However, if size correlates to tankiness, then there's a problem there.
Meddler (NA)
: We want really enormous size to be linked with high innate tankiness. That's why our biggest champs are all really tanky when they're that large (Cho'gath with a lot of stacks, Mega Gnar). Tanks in general should be large (hence increasing Malph's size somewhat), but we want extreme size to convey some additional information as well. It's not a perfect correlation of course (a Rammus with a full tank build might be much tankier than an AP stacking Cho for example), but it's a useful means of gameplay communication.
That seems... really limiting, thematically, but I guess it makes some sense.
Meddler (NA)
: Won't be in 5.22 at the very least. Hoping we might be able to get changes out later this year, lot of other stuff underway though so possible that work ends up getting delayed. In terms of scope of work we'll probably be looking at small, to somewhat small, changes to the sizes of around 30 champs, plus some individual skins that don't match their base well (e.g. Battlecast Kog's huge, Marquis Vlad's tiny). Changes should be noticeable when compared side by side, but certainly won't completely redefine a champion's perceived size (Malphite's will probably get noticeably bigger for example, but he's not going to be rivalling the biggest champs in the game).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pw2gAPN8,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2015-11-03T01:55:26.897+0000) > > he's not going to be rivaling the biggest champs in the game. Why not?
: Fun fact: I can't process caffeine. Doesn't mean I keel over and die if I drink some - just means I don't get any benefit from it. Things like coffee buzzes and energy drinks are strange and alien to me. (Also, not a man - won't turn down the cookie though.)
I'm similar. Coffee can give me an upset stomach, but it doesn't give me an energy boost.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cuix,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=PkgQanVZ,comment-id=0006000100010000,timestamp=2015-11-03T01:29:12.967+0000) > > Really? So, I shouldn't be able to know what's going on with Harrowing or any massive preseason changes? What do you gain from spoilers being in the Red Tracker, anyway? So we should gag order riot from talking about esports or answering questions about things like the skins?
> [{quoted}](name=Girls Love,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=PkgQanVZ,comment-id=00060001000100000000,timestamp=2015-11-03T01:39:31.044+0000) > > So we should gag order riot from talking about esports or answering questions about things like the skins? Pffft, no, don't be dumb. Rioters are players, too, and they shouldn't be stopped from talking about things. The fix is way easier: just make sure that the Esports board doesn't show up in the Red Tracker by default, and that Rioters avoid non-Esports topics with clear spoilers in the title. Talking about SKT skins makes sense, but putting it specifically into the Red Tracker is unnecessary.
: > [{quoted}](name=Cuix,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=PkgQanVZ,comment-id=00060001,timestamp=2015-11-03T00:27:42.596+0000) > > Yet again putting explicit major spoilers directly into the Red Tracker. Again, I will be downvoted and harassed, and again Riot will change nothing. maybe don't look at the redtracker if you don't want to be spoiled...
> [{quoted}](name=Girls Love,realm=NA,application-id=mNBeEEkI,discussion-id=PkgQanVZ,comment-id=000600010001,timestamp=2015-11-03T01:10:40.544+0000) > > maybe don't look at the redtracker if you don't want to be spoiled... Really? So, I shouldn't be able to know what's going on with Harrowing or any massive preseason changes? What do you gain from spoilers being in the Red Tracker, anyway?
: I wouldn't be surprised if Marin requests Maokai, as that's his most dominant champion and he was something like 15-1 on him in the LCK. Maokai or Rumble would be my guess. Bengi also played a lot of Rek'sai and Evelynn this year. I also wonder if Faker will ask for Ahri again.
Yet again putting explicit major spoilers directly into the Red Tracker. Again, I will be downvoted and harassed, and again Riot will change nothing. Edit: Sorry, that sounded too hostile. I'm not saying Riot is evil and awful, just that this keeps happening and it's incredibly frustrating. It sucks that wanting to keep up with general game info (big new preseason patch, Harrowing, etc.) means that I can't get half as much enjoyment out of Worlds, and Riot is apparently just kinda fine with that. It's a bummer, and I'm buttmad.
: Heyo, I'll be a bit before we create these skins and get them prepped for PBE. Generally, they come out during the spring.
Yet again putting explicit major spoilers directly into the Red Tracker. Again, I will be downvoted and harassed, and again Riot will change nothing.
: Yay, glad that you enjoyed Worlds! And I agree with you -- win or lose, the teams and players were remarkable this year.
Yet again putting explicit major spoilers directly into the Red Tracker. Again, I will be downvoted and harassed, and again Riot will change nothing.
: But they specifically said that they are adding new options. If you were gonna start cloth+blue, you can now start cloth mini flask. They're not stupid.
You keep jumping around points lmao. I'mma just stop, at this point.
Wolfeur (EUW)
: Are you going to rename the passive of {{item:3087}}, {{item:3285}} and {{item:3742}} to "Energize" to keep some coherence?
Named passives usually don't stack. If all of those were called "Energize", then nobody could ever build more than one. I can see some people wanting a funny burst build for Ez involving Shiv + Luden's, or Jinx in a siege comp wanting Shiv + Cannon.
: > [{quoted}](name=KingWanahakalugi,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=l4R1ER1Y,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-29T16:43:01.131+0000) > > I find it funny that we can witness Riot's disputes on the boards when they can walk down the hall or take the elevator to argue with each other. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they settled disputes with sumo suits in a makeshift arena in the office. Ironstylus and I settle our disputes with passive-aggressive haiku battles.
Where is the parrot, anyway? Layering armor on Poppy? :^)
: I didn't mean to sound dismissive. The point was that while he has many problems, mana pots don't CURRENTLY solve them, and the removal of mana pots + addition of what they're adding to replace them don't actually hurt him, and that he STILL currently depends on blue. Not that he should have to, but acting like the same answer to "what will he do without mana pots" won't still work after the removal was my overall point.
Except if you go back and read what I wrote, you'll see that I mentioned several things, not just mana pots. And mana pots ARE important; they were a very significant fallback option for Fid anytime he couldn't keep blue. He could even realistically start cloth armor + mana pots for safety and just rush hourglass. Now, his fallback is gone, *and other things have changed, too*.
: {{champion:9}} needs a rework, let's not balance the entire jungle and jungle itemization around 1 champion.
Nobody's saying to balance the jungle around him lmao, calm down. I'm just asking if he's been considered, and what Riot feels about him or plans to do about him. What's wrong with having some discussion?
: "Fiddle being totally reliant on blue buff means he's unplayable after a certain level... That's incredibly binary." + the downvote sound like you're grudging me the fact that he can't operate without blue. I'm not saying he shouldn't, but mana pots DON'T have what he needs. That's what these new changes will hopefully address. Also, I was assuming we were talking about jungle fid, as support Fid was a gimmick and doesn't operate the same way as jungle Fid.
Oh, lord no. The downvote was because you just kinda randomly wandered in and left a super dismissive reply to a real concern. I really don't like when folks join a discussion exclusively to imply that it doesn't matter. Support Fid might've been started as a gimmick, but point-and-click fear + silence is totally solid. I do usually talk about jungle/mid Fid, though, since that's what I've played since S1.
: You're acting like that we should keep that from happening, but it already has. Hey, don't blame me, it's Riot's doing, but mana pots DON'T help him there. He's a dumpstered champ in that he has one strategy that works for him. I wouldn't expect to see him too much in pro play until they put in some massive changes for him.
Uh, chill out? I never blamed you lmao. Riot specifically mentioned him when they made the Runeglaive changes, and I think they should follow-up on an obvious problem. As for pro play... well, duh? Worlds is ending soon, and LCS won't start until spring, sooo... of course he won't see play. He saw play just a year ago, though, as a real support pick, without needing "massive changes".
: Take blue? I mean, I barely see Fid buy blue pots.
Fiddle being totally reliant on blue buff means he's unplayable after a certain level, because he isn't the best jungle duelist and will just get it stolen. It also means he can only jungle when his mid laner doesn't need blue. That's incredibly binary.
Meddler (NA)
: Junglers will have a few options. Starting gold's 500, Hunter's Machete costs 350g (as does Hunter's Talisman, an alternate jungle starting item that gives mana and health regen instead of damage on hit and lifesteal). That then leaves 150g which is enough for either 3 health pots or the new mini flask. That's got 2 charges, each of which restores 100 health, at a cost of 150g. It upgrades (combine cost 250g) into a bigger refillable potion called Hunter's Potion, that holds 5 charges of 60 health/35 mana and gains a charge whenever you kill a large jungle monster.
With mana potions going out, better (counter)engage options for tanks/juggernauts, wider-spread wards, and the Runeglaive replacement... what on earth is Fiddlesticks supposed to do?
Meddler (NA)
: Post on Cass from a week ago: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/NzjhxoyR-some-gameplay-work-in-progress-general-gameplay-thoughts-10202015?comment=00a90000
This is at once promising and deeply disappointing. This is the kind of thing that happens when reworks go through without taking community desires/feedback into consideration, and without being ready for real follow-up work. I think a lot of us are worried about similar things continuing to happen, given the general "well maybe eventually she'll get fixed" end-state. Personally, I know I'm very frustrated with Stashu, who seemed to really not give Cassi's fans much credit and repeatedly pushed her in directions that were correctly identified on the boards as Bad Ideas. This feels a lot like the "we know best" approach that deleted old Trundle. The discussion and openness here are really nice to see, but I worry that this is temporary, and we'll be back to business as usual soon enough.
: So a flask more focused on mana? Because right now, flask is focused almost entirely on additional health sustain, and the mana is just a bonus.
: Thanks! I'm glad you're excited. A big learning we had from our first go on this style of update (the juggernauts) was that we wanted to aim towards "playstyle" like you say rather than mechanics that feel too much like "mini games"
> [{quoted}](name=RiotScruffy,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=whbJ5lH1,comment-id=00110000000e0000,timestamp=2015-10-28T19:34:17.453+0000) >we wanted to aim towards "playstyle" like you say rather than mechanics that feel too much like "mini games" yeeeesssss
Riot Jag (NA)
: 1) Teleport is definitely too powerful, particularly in the pro game. We're doing some cooldown changes on it, but also Rift Herald features prominently here since there's a good reason to not TP away from the top side of the map. 2) We did try the TP boot experiment in Bilgewater. I won't speak for future plans, besides saying that was fun for a while but would probably warp the game heavily if it was in SR. 3) I don't think TP scrolls are out of the realm of possibility in the future, but no current plans. I wouldn't say Keystone Masteries are an analog of the Role system, they're more a revamp of our current masteries to hone in on what choices are really meaningful to a player.
As far as "choose this option or be strictly worse" metas go, double-TP is at least exciting. Tons of deep decision-making going on, and larger/longer implications for individual moments of shotcalling. Very cool in competitive, imo.
: Sorry, I was being a little flippant because your question's basically the whole "opinion posed as a question" thing. The changes we make to the game are obviously intended to drive healthy gameplay and get the game to a better state. If you ask "have you accounted for this negative scenario?" The answer is more along the lines of "we don't expect it to become that, but have contingency plans for many things." If you go further and say, "But what about my specific negative scenario," that's where we get into a rabbit hole of trying to convince you things are good rather than talk about the philosophy behind the change.
How about "I think this specific negative scenario is a very real concern", followed by "it is but we think change/strategy X will be a good way to counter that"? Like, "I think overwarding is a likely outcome of more ward items" followed by "teams choosing vision will be trading away from raw combat stats".
Ceonn (NA)
: Sorry to just randomly pop in on your question, but what does this have to do with anything? I don't understand the purpose of getting on their case about possible mistakes in the past. Obviously, if one does something, they will make more mistakes at the start and then gradually work towards a state where mistakes happen less and less. If you already do not trust Riot to embody this universal truth, then nothing they say will convince you that they're going to do better next time.
I think that's a bit extreme. There are concrete reasons to believe that Riot isn't really ready to fluidly and gracefully deal with major issues that pop up, but there's also plenty of room to be open to hearing them say "No, we know what you're talking about, here are our contingencies, we've definitely learned this time". Or, hell, even acknowledging instances of recent bad major changes would be a good sign. Like, if someone comes in and says "yeah, we really messed up thematically with Cassi" or "we should've been more careful with Mordekaiser", then we know that Riot's perspective aligns with ours, and it's easier to trust them.
: I'll poke Xypherous on this one!
Xyph is still alive? Why don't we get to talk to him much anymore? :c
: Yeah i pronounce Town and Grow the same way, not trolling.
Then you're pronouncing one of them incorrectly. Here's the IPA guide for them: town - taʊn grow - ɡɻoʊ
: I pronounce it the same way it would sound Yaoi if Apple made it. (if you don't catch, is IYaoi)
Uh, that's what we're saying. Tha "aoi" in Illaoi is pronounced like the "aoi" in yaoi.
: That only makes my point stronger, unless you pronunce -ao- as -ow-
... How else would you pronounce it?
: Sorry man your complaint is invalid. It's fine to wait and see the outcome of the game yourself, but in doing so you have to take on some personal responsibility here and abstain from outlets that will likely be talking about the game you're going to watch. It's like waiting to watch a football game you recorded and then turning on ESPN for 30 minutes just kind of hoping they don't mention it.
Really? Checking the Red Tracker is asking for spoilers? Why does that need to be the case? Why is it important to you that spoilers exist explicitly on the Red Tracker?
: > [{quoted}](name=Cuix,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=PwVIPe5T,comment-id=000500020000000000000000,timestamp=2015-10-27T13:45:04.616+0000) > > The title is in the red tracker, talking about if SKT wins. Thus, one semifinal result has already been spoiled just by a Red being inconsiderate. That's a problem. The thing is, the whole board shouldn't cater to your late watching of the games, but the other way around. You KNOW people are going to be talking about past results in the LoL official forum, if you really don't want anything spoiled, you should be checking this site until you're up to date, hell, people are commenting about the games while they are currently being played.
It's obvious that discussions like this will be in the Esports board. It's obvious that some of these discussions will be on the top of GD and whatnot. But why do they need to be in the Red Tracker? What do you gain from that?
: > [{quoted}](name=Cuix,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=PwVIPe5T,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2015-10-27T09:07:53.225+0000) > > More spoilers in the red tracker. Now there's little point in watching the Quarterfinals or Semifinals except for maybe highlight videos, because Riot still refuses to maintain a spoiler-free environment for any events. > > Edit: And again, downvotes from people who care more about selfish convenience than about other people getting to enjoy Worlds without knowing all outcomes in advance. No Riot response, as always. Is it that hard to imagine being unable to watch matches the day they happen? Some folks have lives AND want to enjoy esports events. Hey Cuix I'm really sorry I spoiled the results for you, honestly it didn't occur to me and that's totally my bad! I posted at 2am hoping to have some interesting conversation when I could check out the thread this afternoon for responses but I did mean to cause you to feel ignored either. Your complaint is totally valid. I hope you can still enjoy the VoDs, I will say no more! Sorry again.
You, as an individual, are not the problem. Not by a longshot. The problem is that Riot as a whole has been too content to do nothing to the RedTracker, despite a few fairly basic problems.
Nazzadan (NA)
: The attitude that we don't have lives is very disrespectful. That's the kind of thing a dudebro says to try and demean "nerds." Also Snape killed Dumbledore, Venom Snake is the medic from Ground Zeroes, Ender's simulated battles were actual real battles, Frodo destroys the ring, Will dies fighting 2 hunters hand to hand, Kurt dies because he wore Spartan 3 armor instead of MJOLNIR, Glenn dies, Glenn might not have died, Carl will get shot in the eye this season. Oh, spoiler alert btw.
You're kidding. I'm on here making a fuss about esports and you're going to imply I'm a dudebro? Serious?
: Is it that hard for you to not come to Broads? Don't blame Kindlejack for your lack of restraint.I don't go blame youtube comments for my lack restraint from scrolling down. Kindlejack was just naturally interested in this topic & wanted to join in (he's a part of the skins team afterall).I'm sure he didn't mean to spoil for you.It's also not his fault the OP wrote the title they did.I don't see you getting mad at the OP for making the thread in the 1st place.
OP doesn't show up in the red tracker. Also, really? Me wanting to keep up with Riot discussions means you're comfortable blaming me? You realize they talk about a lot of other things, too, right? Hell, the fix here is easy. Posts in the Esports board don't show up in the RedTracker, and Reds avoid spoilers elsewhere (which almost never show up; this is the first I've seen). But, no, it's easier to blame the person making a fuss than it is to make even the simplest change to a comfortable convenience.
: So let me get this straight you go to the red tracker which does not reveal the comment by the way you see that they reply to a thread that said if SKT wins then you proceed to click on it and get mad that they replied with information about the other team they may be playing against ? Why did you even come to the boards in the first place there is a butt ton of spoilers that will be just on the homepage alone with out watching the semifinals
The title is in the red tracker, talking about if SKT wins. Thus, one semifinal result has already been spoiled just by a Red being inconsiderate. That's a problem. After that, yeah, I clicked on the title and chose to read more, and that's on me. I spoiled the other result for myself. But really, your response to this is "you were asking for it by being on boards"? Essentially, you're saying that people should just not keep up with the forums so that you can have the convenience of... what, having Rioters spoil major event outcomes? Why? What are you gaining, other than not needing to think about that sort of thing? That's incredibly selfish.
: If being spoiled is such a big problem,then why didn't you just stay away from sites that could potentially spoil you until you finally watched the games? You should have known you were taking that risk simply by coming to the Boards.
What is it about spoilers that is so important to you? Why do you want them to be in the Red Tracker and among front-facing announcements? Where is the benefit in that?
: how is this a spoiler?
You... you're joking, right? This spoils the results for both semifinal matches. Those happened JUST this weekend; plenty of people don't have time to watch games right as they happen. That's why VoDs are a thing.
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