Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: January 25
Hey, with the release of Sylas and Morde VGU incoming, do you think we could get some better AP fighter itemization?
: Phage+Codex+950=3100 gold Stats: Health-350 AD-20 AP-40 CDR-20% Phage passive plus the original active.
Better, but why does it have AD? Morde is the only AP bruiser I can think of that has AD ratios; everyone else only has AP.
: AP Bruiser Item Idea
Two of the AP bruisers don't even use mana though, {{champion:82}} {{champion:68}} , so I feel like it shouldn't have catalyst in it.
: Yorick is now one of the WORST top laners in the game
His identity should be the mistwalkers, not shovelling people to death. That's what annoys me the most.
: should work with all shields
It doesn't work on Morde's shield, please fix!
: Is it safe to say now that the ADC rework was a complete and utter failure?
It seemed to work initially, at least in terms of diversity and increasing item costs, but then they caved into adc whining and we're back to square one.
: Thank you for making Veigars ult look like his Q
Tbh I've always thought they look the same.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: September 12
>A diverse meta's good, but not as important as interesting matches (better low diversity and exciting games than high diversity and slow, uneventful play repeatedly) A diverse meta is more likely to cause interesting matches though, at least in my opinion.
: the yorick nerf was retarded. low elo cant dodge the e or attack move to kill the ghouls, so they nerf yorick instead of teaching them about the champion.
It's the juggernaut syndrome, the class will never be allowed to be great because Riot balances them around low elo.
Meddler (NA)
: Yorick we'll be nerfing Ghoul damage, primarily between levels 2 and 7. That was chosen as a target given AI controlled minions tend to perform noticeably stronger at low/average MMR than high, given their effectiveness doesn't scale as much as other parts of a champion's kit, while counterplay against them does. Damage is then the same by 18. Garen I believe we're cutting Q rank up damage (30-150 instead of 30-170). I'll double check, but I don't think there's a low MMR target in there, instead just a slight power reduction via less upfront damage.
I don't understand how this is a nerf just for low elo, regarding Yorick. Why is it that juggernauts are always balanced around low elo and can never be good in high elo?
AD Yuumi (NA)
: Nexus Blitz - Week 1 Feedback and Patch Notes
Hey, could Yorick get an easier time getting graves? It's quite difficult in modes like this and ARAM.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 17
Do you think we have pushed back too much towards marksmen bot lane, and if so will there be any plans to bring back some of the diversity?
: Not gonna lie, while I REALLY think they screwed over Morde mains I believe Kayle and Morg take priority here. Kayle is basically as outdated of a champ as you can get in terms of model & gameplay & Morg (despite what Riot says about her kit) is very close to the same situation. I think making them champs that live up to their expectations is a lot more important than fixing Morde. To be fair though - After Kayle/Morg the _only_ champ I see taking precedent above Morde is Tryndamere. After that, nobody. Morde needs love.
Kayle sure, Morgana hell no. Her kit may not be all that interesting, and her visuals could use polishing, but it certainly works just fine and she's a very popular champion right now. And don't even get me started on Ezreal ... It wouldn't bother me if they picked champs like Tryndamere, Skarner, Pantheon, etc. over Morde, but EZREAL?? Morgana? Okay.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 3
Hey Meddler, are there any buffs planned for Liandry's, or did you decide against that for now? Thanks.
: I touched on it on another post, but we're doing some short term work to siphon out some damage from runes. One of the directions we're currently testing with Electrocute is decreasing both the damage and the cd (get the proc more frequently, but with reduced payout). We're not going quite to TL levels, but that's a rough model we're shooting for. Just going to go ahead and drop the current list in here for you guys to discuss. This will also be on the PBE tomorrow. Electrocute Damage :: 50-220 (+50%bAD)(+30%AP) >>> 30-180 (+40%bAD)(+25%AP) Cooldown :: 50-25 >>> 25-20 Cheap Shot Damage :: 15-40 >>> 8-40 Sudden Impact Lethality Bonus :: 10 >>> 7 Magic Penetration Bonus :: 8 >>> 6 Celerity Bonus Movement Speed converted to Attack Damage :: 9.6% >>> 6% Bonus Movement Speed converted to Ability Power :: 16% >>> 10% Scorch Damage :: 20-60 >>> 10-30 Cooldown :: 20 >>> 10 Notably, there's some runes like Aery and Comet not included in this list which are cited pretty frequently, they likely also need more work in terms of gameplay that isn't just simply some number shifts (we're still talking about them though)
Leans pretty heavily on mage-oriented runes no?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: August 1
Is Liandry's still looking likely to receive some sort of buff?
: Touching base on Mid-season (marksman and snowballing)
So is it safe to say the changes are more a powershift for adcs to make them feel better to play, rather than a power up?
Hayaishi (NA)
: Time for more "grounded" debuff Riot.
Would love if Morde got some sort of grounded effect when he gets reworked, would allow him to stay immobile while still being able to deal with the stuff going around these days.
Eggbread (NA)
: Correction: "Mobile Bruisers" Completely immobile Bruisers are only decent right now at most. Edit: Hey deny all you want, but are you guys gonna sit there and say {{champion:122}} {{champion:36}} {{champion:86}} {{champion:420}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:75}} {{champion:2}} {{champion:102}} {{champion:27}} {{champion:48}} {{champion:77}} {{champion:6}} {{champion:106}} {{champion:83}} are OP right now? No, I think the group of characters you are talking about is closer to: {{champion:164}} {{champion:114}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:240}} {{champion:11}} {{champion:56}} {{champion:80}} {{champion:58}} {{champion:92}} {{champion:23}} {{champion:62}} {{champion:5}} {{champion:157}}
Yeah I'm worried about people lumping juggernauts with the actual problem fighters. It's worse considering juggernauts haven't been good for a long, long time.
: The problem is when you buy it _in addition to_ Banshee's or Zhonya's.
You would be giving up quite a lot of damage for that, so I don't think it would be an issue.
: > [{quoted}](name=Periscope,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FTT4LcE0,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-07-08T21:41:12.661+0000) > > They might not respond to everything, but they do read the forums. Damage too high. No response Turrets too weak. No response Games too short. No response ADCs are useless now. No response Remove or rework duskblade. No response Tanks are useless now. No response Those are just a few I can think of.
>ADCs are useless now. No response lol
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: July 4
Is a Liandry's buff planned at this point?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: June 14
Oh come on. You said yourself that marksmen are still dominating most MMRs, and they're still present in pro play too, and you ALREADY want to make them more dominant?
: Does anyone find it that mobile champions are naturally stronger than immobile ones?
Well, lets look at fighters. Which fighters are strong right now? {{champion:164}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:24}} {{champion:5}} etc. And which fighters are weak? Almost all of the juggernauts, which surprise surprise, tend to have little or no mobility. Yeah, it's pretty clear mobile champions way outclass the others.
: ***
Why would they need to keep pace with juggernauts, juggernaut is already one of the worst classes in the game.
: I have Dr. Pepper coming out of my nose. So thanks for this. Have an upvote
Um ... did you notice how long ago this was posted?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 11
If I recall, celerity was there as a replacement for movement speed quint users in the old rune system. Wouldn't it maybe be better to target the bonus damage is gives from movespeed, rather than the actual buff?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: May 4
Have you guys given up on introducing non-marksmen bot lane? The current changes on PBE just look like general marksmen rebalance rather than actually doing anything to make them less necessary.
Eggbread (NA)
: I don't think this patch is the Midseason patch though, and they weren't aiming to let these changes make non-Marksman come bottom. That comes later. These changes are just changes to Marksman to make them less aggravating in general and make their class as a whole fit their fantasy better. Unless I'm wrong, this isn't the Midseason patch and we won't see the plans to add non-Marksman to Bottom Lane this patch. Plus, they said they had a new item they planned to release when that happened I believe which allowed other characters to go Bot.
Time will tell. I hope you're right and that these are only the first of changes to come. I was also wondering what happened to that new starter item they teased.
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CyberBalt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2018-05-03T04:59:21.785+0000) > > Riot directly said their goal for midseason was to let non-marksmen go bot lane. I'm about to go to bed now, but I could link it for you tomorrow if you'd like. I've seen nothing of the sort said anywhere. You're going to need to produce a quote, because I don't believe they are stupid enough to try to rework the entire game formula to make mages capable of taking on the role of a marksman. You must be misunderstanding their intentions behind the current ADC changes, which was to allow other roles to carry the game by giving them more time to make an impact before the ADC comes online. Which is not the same as saying they want other types of champions to go the bottom position and take over the role of a marksman.
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=iGclmY4q,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-01-26T16:09:40.283+0000) > > **Mid-Season: Opening up Bot Lane** > > > > About a week back we put out a video dev diary covering some of our goals for gameplay in 2018. Worth a look if you haven't seen it: > > > > > > > > One thing mentioned there I figured it would be good to talk about a bit more is our plan to open up bot lane to a wider range champions in the farming position. It's something we've been interested in, and talked about, for a long time, but haven't dedicated the needed effort to to properly support non marksmen there. That's meant a game state where marksmen have been effectively a required pick as a result. A lot of players have called us on that, in particular that we've talked of wanting to support more diversity, but haven't opened up the most consistent part of team comps. > > > > Our biggest goal with mid-season is to change that, make it so it's a really effective choice to sometimes run a comp that doesn't have a marksmen in bot lane, or potentially doesn't have a marksmen at all. It's kind of workable at present, but we agree should be a lot more so. That's likely to involve work on items for non marksmen bot lanes, adjusting some supports so that they've got stronger synergies with non marksmen, maybe changes to things like how towers take damage even. We generally want to stay away changing individual champs so that they go bot though, this is about opening up the position to other classes, not putting mechanics on champs that are bot lane specific. > > > > Details overall still being worked on - we're just kicking off planning and investigation right now. > > It's likely that, at least initially, we're supporting a range of non marksmen in bot, but that a number of other classes still don't have a way to succeed there (e.g. a lot of mages might be effective choices there, but skirmishers not). Assuming the initial opening up worked well we'd then want to continue to gradually open the position up over time. He said pretty clearly that's the main goal : "Our biggest goal with mid-season is to change that, make it so it's a really effective choice to sometimes run a comp that doesn't have a marksmen in bot lane, or potentially doesn't have a marksmen at all." Here's the link if you want it:
Risen29 (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=CyberBalt,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-02T18:09:57.978+0000) > > To me, it looks more like the buildpath of marksmen was changed without actually fixing the problem of them being near-mandatory every game That's by design. They've been mandatory since season 1. Nobody was complaining about that. People were complaining about the fact that they dominate the game too early, earlier than they use to. > I am very skeptical these changes will cause non-marksmen bot laners to become a norm, which was the initial goal for midseason. Says who? The goal of the current marksmen changes is not to open it up bottom to non-marksmen, but to make it easier for other roles to carry the mid game.
Riot directly said their goal for midseason was to let non-marksmen go bot lane. I'm about to go to bed now, but I could link it for you tomorrow if you'd like.
: I'm still of the opinion that Marksman changes aren't going to be what gets Marksmen out of Bot Lane, but a Support rework.
That's fair; personally I think it'll be a mix of both because they're so tied to each other.
: So if you look through Meddler's red posts he recently talked about that. The expansion of bot-lane to mages is going to be iterative, in that they're going to make smaller-scope changes over time and make sure those changes are tuned with the end-game goal being to that more class archetypes will be viable in the botlane carry position. The mana and marksmen changes are just first steps in getting them to reasonable power levels before trying to alter their fundamental dynamics.
That's good to hear. Probably wiser for them to do it that way, makes it easier to pinpoint where any potential problems are coming from.
: so, one note to make. they said something about support item changes, including support itemization to better support other types of champions than marksmen. they wanted to make more item equivalents to {{item:3504}} that were specialized on supporting fighters and mages, so a support can actively chose to focus on supporting other carry arechetypes. your marksman sucks donkey dicks, and your mage/fighter is an animal at their champion, outplaying opponents left and right? the support is supposed to be able to adapt their itemization to play around the other guys instead. this itemization should also be applicabale in mage/support, and fighter/support duo lanes, which would bring us one step closer to bot lane diversity. maybe this is a second sweep of changes that is still to come. its still pretty early on in the preseason patch even on the pbe. they also announced a new domination keystone that wasnt released yet either. we might only have half of the picture so far, so in this case im giving them the benefit of the doubt.
Changing support itemization to support other classes would indeed go a long way, because currently they're mostly geared towards ADCs. What I'm not so sure is on what Riot could really introduce in items to help those classes. Like, you'd think stuff like Righteous Glory would enable juggernauts to go bot, but they still don't really. Mages could be a different story though, I don't think there's really AP boosting support items or anything like that.
Rioter Comments
: hot take: the ADC update is less a direct nerf to ADCs and more a buff to Assassins.
>wish I had a PBE account Just FYI, I'm pretty sure anyone can get a PBE account now as long as your honor is above a certain threshold.
: Hey there. So, this sort of removal begs a legitimate question from me. While I can't promise this thread alone will determine our decision, I'd really like some community thoughts. **Gameplay** has a bit of a bad rap for low-quality threads and a lack of meaningful discussion. There are really two ways to go about this: 1. Let it do its thing, and let threads like the one that started this thread exist un-moderated. 2. More actively police it to cull inflammatory threads, low-content threads, and discussions that aren't in good faith or are overly accusatory. Both are honestly valid options, and both get us a very different **Gameplay** board. I'd love some thoughts on what you guys are looking for in **Gameplay**: a place for serious *League* related discussion, or a place to just post venting, memes, or quick thoughts as they come to mind? Or something else entirely?
My 2 cents: I prefer the second option. Remove very low quality/content threads, but it is of vital importance not to remove anything that at least tries to provoke discussion. Even if it's the most unpopular opinion in the history of League, as long as there's some minimum amount of effort into the post, it should stay.
Adalvar (EUW)
: Press the Attack is also used for fighters such as {{champion:24}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:58}} etc, FF has seen use on multiple different champions such as {{champion:112}} {{champion:113}} {{champion:150}} {{champion:38}} etc. Conquerer is basically a melee only keystone. So no Precision is not "entirely dedicated" for ADC's. As for mages, as you said they can go into Comet or Aery or Electrocute (more of a assassin choice) or even FF, but they can also go into Unsealled Spellbook and people are _really_ underestimating the growing value of Phase Rush. Domination was in dire need of a new keystone and given how it was worded, it looks like it'll benefit assassins aswell as old school caster ADC's which are non existent ATM
When I said precision is almost entirely dedicated to them, I meant moreso that they are the main intended users for all the keystones in that tree, save for Conqueror. Not that other classes couldn't use them. It's true that mages could go unsealed spellbook, but that's not really a MAGE keystone if you get what I mean. Really anyone can take it, as it affects summoner spell choice, not anything actually related to class strengths and weaknesses. I do agree that domination tree as well needed a new keystone; I think it suffers from the same problem that Sorcery does, where Dark Harvest and Electrocute essentially fill the same niche, though to a lesser extent than Comet and Aery. I disagree that phase rush is undervalued however; I think it's just straight up weak. Its users aren't even the ones who used Stormraiders, which is dumb because it was advertised as a stormraiders replacement. Honestly at this point, I would rather they just copy pasted 'Raiders word for word back into the game and removed phase rush.
dangopee (NA)
: If this Hall of Blades is similar to Stormrazor passive then I can see it being good on more than just ranged.
Yeah but unless it has a ranged/melee split, then it's ALWAYS going to be better on a ranged champion than melee.
: Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days
Don't you think marksmen are getting a bit too many keystones? The precision tree is almost entirely dedicated to them (lethal tempo, fleet footwork, press the attack), and now a new one on top of that. For comparison, mages have comet and aery (which are almost identical), plus maybe electrocute if you can swallow going into the domination tree.
: Marksman changes coming to PBE in the next couple days
Overall, do you think these changes will make marksmen damage more backloaded? I thought that was the goal, but stuff like Stormrazor look like they do the opposite. EDIT: Also, are these changes intended to help non-marksmen go bot?
: Deathfire touch please! You can nerf Brand back down to a sensible passive and give the rest of us our keystone back in one go!!!!
Meh. If they were to reintroduce deathfire touch, it'd have to replace aery or comet, because all three are already so similar. They're all basically just "here's a bit of extra chip damage" and that's it. It doesn't get more boring than that, there needs to be actual variety, not just an illusion of it.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27
Do you think Liandry's has any room for buffs at all? It seems a fair bit weaker than the old one. 1% max health vs 2% current health is approximately equal, but the other passive is not worth losing the 15 Mpen IMO. Would you consider increasing the maximum bonus damage from damaging abilities, or maybe a larger max health shred? Or does it not look like it needs buffs?
Meddler (NA)
: Smaller scope work on Morde hasn't worked out that well, so I'm cautious about trying to make changes that aren't simple power adjustments until we can do a full overhaul. Base stats could make sense if he was weak, don't feel that's the case at present. Would agree with your assessment that he's got a kit that can be pretty sensitive to even fairly small buffs (and base stats are definitely direct buffs, not quality of life). W without recast adds some power and removes some enemy response, so would want to ensure both of those were goals or not do so. Wouldn't rule it out though. Removing W passive to add power doesn't make sense if the argument is that it's not doing much in the first place.
Do you know for sure he's not weak right now, or was that just your initial gut feeling? Personally I have felt he lost a fair amount of power since preseason, but I'd be id be interested to know specifically what leads you to think he's good enough right now. Is it his winrate, his presence in high elo, something else? Also, if base stats are out of the question, could having his Q increasing range by 25-50 be considered quality of life? All the other empowered autos, like Yorick Q and such do that. Letting his Q get full healing from spellvamp would also be nice (seems to be a bug where he only gets a third? Or is it not a bug?)
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 20
Hello Meddler, great post today. On an unrelated note however, I was wondering if there has been any discussion about Mordekaiser buffs by any chance? He's felt pretty weak recently, and I was hoping you could tell us if there's anything on the way for him.
: > **Because currently, people throw a tantrum the second an ADC becomes mildly viable in another lane, ** Literally, my entire point of the comment. Does no one actually read it? I'm fine if Riot wants to move other classes into bot lane. Sure, whatever. But what that means is that ADCs have to be able to play other lanes, **AND** people have to not explode with crying for nerfs when they do that. Do you know *why* ADCs are the only class down there? It's because they've been forced out of everywhere else, because everyone always cries out "ADCS ONLY GO BOT LANE RITO WTF!?!??!!11?!"
You've got it backwards. ADCs are already mandatory bot lane, so of course people are going to be mad if they get played elsewhere; two adcs in a single team, when one of them is already mandatory? That would be plain ridiculous. And I don't understand why adcs sharing their lane means they HAVE to get to play other lanes. Surprise, juggernauts have to share their lane, and they don't get to go anywhere but top.
: If people want ADCs to not be the only class in bot lane, then they have to be ok with ADCs playing in other lanes. Because currently, people throw a tantrum the second an ADC becomes mildly viable in another lane, even if they aren't actually doing that well there. ######(EDIT: a line from another comment further down) I'm fine if Riot wants to move other classes into bot lane. Sure, whatever. But what that means is that ADCs have to be able to play other lanes, **AND** people have to not explode with crying for nerfs when they do that.
Other classes have to share lanes without having alternate places to go to as well. Juggernauts, for example, can pretty much only go top, yet they're not even guaranteed to be picked at all. So why does adc having to share their lane automatically mean they get to go other places? It's just the same treatment other classes have had for years.
I think the change would have been a lot better received if they did this change AFTER nerfing adcs, but to everyone here it looks like they're just giving bot lane a pass and hammering mages instead.
: Everyone's up and arms with these Mage mana changes aimed at reducing their wave clear
{{champion:136}} also lucked out; no changes to him cause he builds dark seal.
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.9
How do you guys feel about Mordekaiser ATM? Obviously he needs a VGU eventually, but for now? Personally I think he's in dire need of some base stat buffs (and a bugfix)
Show more


Level 79 (NA)
Lifetime Upvotes
Create a Discussion