: I think the idea is to leave her only in the jungle, but make her jungling worse.
> [{quoted}](name=disregardable,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=O7IUhRER,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-03-09T00:33:24.587+0000) > > I think the idea is to leave her only in the jungle, but make her jungling worse. Literally what. If they push this to live there is no reason to play Nidalee now. Atm the only thing she has going for her are fast and healthy clears that let her get early leads. Now she won't be able to kite the jungle monsters nearly as much, so she won't be able to invade or gank as often.
: +1 for Madoka Magica mention.
> [{quoted}](name=LilliththeStorm,realm=NA,application-id=A8FQeEA8,discussion-id=aABelZmj,comment-id=002a0000,timestamp=2016-02-13T21:50:07.293+0000) > > +1 for Madoka Magica mention. Ayyy
: They're basically changing soraka from a holy priest to a restoration druid. The HoT idea seems good and is forcing her to poke more / think about using her heals more strategically. The numbers are just off right now. The perceived feeling of heal doing nothing at all is because it's now sustained healing not burst healing. Sustained feels really unsatisfying to the player but is easier to counter (Just out dps/burst through the heal). Instant low cooldown Burst heals just feel horrible to play against. It's like they've got 3 life bars to get through. With this new direction it will stop people from just going in recklessly eating all the burst + cc from the other team and living due to the sudden 1.5 - 3 k extra health gained over 3 seconds. Instead they'll have to engage do the damage and then disengage to let soraka heal for another fight. This style will probably force soraka into being a pick for gorilla / poke comps rather than hard engage / burst damage comps.
> [{quoted}](name=Definitely Bait,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMyJA0Vq,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2016-02-01T16:13:38.704+0000) > > They're basically changing soraka from a holy priest to a restoration druid. The HoT idea seems good and is forcing her to poke more / think about using her heals more strategically. The numbers are just off right now. > > The perceived feeling of heal doing nothing at all is because it's now sustained healing not burst healing. Sustained feels really unsatisfying to the player but is easier to counter (Just out dps/burst through the heal). > > Instant low cooldown Burst heals just feel horrible to play against. It's like they've got 3 life bars to get through. > > With this new direction it will stop people from just going in recklessly eating all the burst + cc from the other team and living due to the sudden 1.5 - 3 k extra health gained over 3 seconds. Instead they'll have to engage do the damage and then disengage to let soraka heal for another fight. This style will probably force soraka into being a pick for gorilla / poke comps rather than hard engage / burst damage comps. I understand the logic, it's just that I could not heal at all with my Q in fights. You don't even get extra healing for hitting multiple champs anymore so now building health is REALLY inefficient, and AP didn't feel worth it either because her ratio's were so low. I'm sure they'll address the issues, I'm just worried they won't.
DJ Di0 (NA)
: The Soraka changes are too much.
: There isn't a lot of mechanical skill to master soraka you aren't animation cancelling auto attack resetting csing etc. all you are doing is sitting there and flashing when you get dove.
> [{quoted}](name=Prirn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMyJA0Vq,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-01-30T06:08:31.111+0000) > > There isn't a lot of mechanical skill to master soraka you aren't animation cancelling auto attack resetting csing etc. all you are doing is sitting there and flashing when you get dove. If you think the mechanical intensity of a champion is all that adds to it's skill ceiling then you're sadly mistaken. An example would be Kog'Maw. His skills are quite simple. Some projectiles and an attack speed buff. Doesn't take a lot of games to understand how to play him. Now actually winning with him is hard and requires intense positioning as well as the aid of your teammates. Soraka is very risky to play, especially if you play AP support like I did last season.
: Well all I know is soraka is a pussy champion and nobody will remember you for getting high elo with her.
> [{quoted}](name=Prirn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMyJA0Vq,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-01-30T05:48:03.338+0000) > > Well all I know is soraka is a pussy champion and nobody will remember you for getting high elo with her. Um, rood.
: hey, we don't take kindly to soraka round this place, so if you don't approve, i hope ur ready for the downvotes and the paddlin'
> [{quoted}](name=LadyRenly,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=rMyJA0Vq,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-01-30T05:49:29.619+0000) > > hey, we don't take kindly to soraka round this place, so if you don't approve, i hope ur ready for the downvotes and the paddlin' ;-;
Rioter Comments
: Change soraka if you must, but PLEASE DONT REMOVE THE SWEETSPOTTING
I really don't get the reason for removing the sweetspot. My only guess is they were that the extra damage that came with hitting the center combined with healing on Q now would make Raka mid viable.....
Meddler (NA)
: Overall basically still the same as per my post in this thread: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EkxbfyvO-so-lemme-get-this-straight Preseason's also increased her effectiveness a noticeable amount, so if we felt compelled to make balance adjustments to her I'd imagine they'd be nerfs not buffs. There are certainly some supports that are more dominant overall, we've either just nerfed, or are in the process of nerfing, those that are over the line though (some of whom will probably need further work too - looking at you Brand).
> [{quoted}](name=Meddler,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i4mbjszh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-12-13T01:38:01.095+0000) > > Overall basically still the same as per my post in this thread: > > http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/EkxbfyvO-so-lemme-get-this-straight > > Preseason's also increased her effectiveness a noticeable amount, so if we felt compelled to make balance adjustments to her I'd imagine they'd be nerfs not buffs. There are certainly some supports that are more dominant overall, we've either just nerfed, or are in the process of nerfing, those that are over the line though (some of whom will probably need further work too - looking at you Brand). While I agree that Sona's way stronger in the preseason, I'd advise to not nerf her. If she gets nerfed, and then either Frost Queens or Thunderlord's/Windspeakers gets nerfed, she'll be in an even worse state than she was towards the end of season 5. (Remember Sejuani/Cinderhulk, or Warwick/Devourer?) To me, this indicates that she needs another rework. Her power is tied to the effectiveness of items and numbers, which in my opinion is not what is supposed to happen to a Support Champion.
Rock MD (NA)
: Frost Queen's Claim is ridiculous right now.
I just it doesn't get nerfed to the point where it affects supports to; so wouldn't be fair.
: > [{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=E64TuY1K,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2015-12-09T14:16:13.390+0000) > > Just my luck to get sick during finals week :/ Sorry to hear that. You still got this, though.
> [{quoted}](name=WarlordTim,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=E64TuY1K,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2015-12-10T18:04:34.588+0000) > > Sorry to hear that. You still got this, though. Ty. My Art History final went pretty well I think :)
: She needs more than 200 speed increase on her chains to be playable. Maybe reset her ult on kills and assists, that would put her on a decent spot.
> [{quoted}](name=TeemoXNidalee,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4z7llWBL,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-12-09T22:01:58.957+0000) > > She needs more than 200 speed increase on her chains to be playable. Maybe reset her ult on kills and assists, that would put her on a decent spot. And then she gets a pentakill by taping W and R down.
: Anyone Else Taking Finals?
Just my luck to get sick during finals week :/
: meh at least with Yasuo i feel like i have a chance, And thats saying something. sona is such an uninteractive piece of trash bullshit zero mechanic champion. Either CC and 100-0 her or she sucks the fun out of the game
> [{quoted}](name=magic pole,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Ab1sfOlt,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-26T05:49:47.341+0000) > > meh at **least with Yasuo i feel like i have a chance,** And thats saying something. > > sona is such an uninteractive piece of trash bullshit zero mechanic champion. Either CC and 100-0 her or she sucks the fun out of the game Good luck doing literally anything when you're Ahri, TF, Orianna, Ziggs.
Valexfor (EUW)
: Nidalee's spear can't be allowed to be easy to land, it's just unhealthy, they do too much damage. And since you can spam them with little to no danger of going oom, you would pretty much win against anything with no access to mobility, and that's a big no, since every skill shot should be possible to dodge. I never played her -well, twice in aram, no rerolls left- and still did pretty good -talking about season 3- so if I could do good with her, a really good nida would be actually unbearable, that said, she probably does need some more love than just a bit more damage on pounce.
> [{quoted}](name=Valexfor,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=r5mV6nnE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-24T21:11:11.722+0000) > > Nidalee's spear can't be allowed to be easy to land, it's just unhealthy, they do too much damage. They thing is they've nerfed both her cast time /and/ damage. It should have been one or the other.
: Don't tone down Soraka by touching her mana costs or lowering her range.
I'd be down for moving the passive; it makes sense for Soraka to choose either sustaining herself or having better heals for her allies. I hope a Rioter sees this, all your ideas are good.
arcinex (NA)
: Sona cs'ing is bad
> [{quoted}](name=arcinex,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qE4XEuxY,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-21T07:56:07.783+0000) > > Sona cs'ing is bad As in her waveclear or my own cs? lol After the first tower fell at mid I just started roaming.
Smyle (OCE)
: Most useless ultimate Season 6
{{champion:96}} if the enemy is over 25% health
: I've always liked mid sona. It's been a hell of a lot easier than using her in support, let me just say. Although her mana problems were definitely somewhat alleviated in support too.
> [{quoted}](name=1000angrybees,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qE4XEuxY,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-21T06:06:29.198+0000) > > I've always liked mid sona. It's been a hell of a lot easier than using her in support, let me just say. > > Although her mana problems were definitely somewhat alleviated in support too. I've always liked it because having lots of AP makes her auras actually powerful and impactful, especially the shield.
Rioter Comments
: so.. if i round house kick you in the face. you will instantly be able to retaliate after taking the hit?
> [{quoted}](name=Scrambled Anivia,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=U7HRIEeE,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-20T22:32:00.531+0000) > > so.. if i round house kick you in the face. > > you will instantly be able to retaliate after taking the hit? If you're a man, yea.
Red Ryu (NA)
: Sona has the 4th highest winrate, best overall performance of supports and she got a lot of new toys
> [{quoted}](name=Red Ryu,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nfQbOk3e,comment-id=,timestamp=2015-11-18T22:18:02.501+0000) > > Why do people want her buffed again? > > Her play rate doubled, her win rate jumped up 2% and she is performing a lot better with the new masteries + items. > > Why are people still demanding that she be buffed? I mean, this was way before the preseason patch but alright, spread false information. Sona's at a much better spot because of several indirect buffs (tl;dr shen cost down, mana regen from several sources up, less tanks, games end quicker so she can build damage before reaching her bad late game, etc. ) Does she need a buff? Nope. But I still believe she needs a rework because if her winrate rises any more you can bet your ass people will start to whine about her being overpowered again.
Keyoshi (NA)
: Soraka is broken
Why nerf her, when she's not op?
NiamhNyx (NA)
: Why do people still think sona is worthless?
No offense but I don't really advise using Ardent Censer unless you have a Kog'Maw on your team, because of his W. And yes, Sona's much better this patch; lots of indirect buffs, and with games lasting longer she doesn't get to reach the point where she falls off(especially if you don't go ap). > [{quoted}](name=Bergk,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ywf8qME8,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T12:24:20.771+0000) > > Windspeaker's Blessing is too good to not take with Sona. Thunderlords has a 30s CD. But Windspeaker's you push W and you entire team gets +30% resistances because her W applies a heal AND a shield. That's insain! Errrrr, I don't think the bonus resistances stack? Or they aren't supposed to afaik. *Goes into a custom game to see* Looks like you might be able to refresh the duration, but you can't stack the resistances.
: Kog'Maw isn't weak because he's undertuned
-Give BioArcane Barrage base damage (not huge but just something). -Revert the duration nerf of his Living Artillery debuff; ten seconds is simply too long.
: yes but they have to waste money on it, money matters just as much for them. They were balanced with the fact that they don't have mana or energy. So they have some other negatives like maybe longer cooldowns or whatever riot felt was necissary to keep them from bein op. So making them spend money on mana that they can't use does not make sense.
> [{quoted}](name=P0ETRYNMOTION,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=x3jjPatr,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T17:37:28.794+0000) > > yes but they have to waste money on it, money matters just as much for them. They were balanced with the fact that they don't have mana or energy. So they have some other negatives like maybe longer cooldowns or whatever riot felt was necissary to keep them from bein op. So making them spend money on mana that they can't use does not make sense. .... Sheen items {{item:3100}} {{item:3078}} {{item:3025}} {{item:1414}} are primarily used with champions with low cooldowns that also need mana to be able to do more rotations. {{champion:105}} {{champion:4}} {{champion:37}} {{champion:81}} {{champion:245}} {{champion:39}} {{champion:96}} {{champion:76}} There are some champions that don't have mana as a resource that also buy these items, such as: {{champion:64}} {{champion:98}} {{champion:157}} {{champion:82}} {{champion:85}} 200 mana is a wasted stat, yes, but they get it for the spellblade passive.
Cherysse (NA)
: The AP Problem (In Depth)
You're saying Ludens Echo is OP?
: Nidalee needs a buff
I agree. Imo Mid Nidalee isn't even unfair to play against, since you have entire minion waves to defend yourself against a slow moving skillshot.
: Deathfire Touch feels weak
I think it's more of a satisfactory issue than balance issue. If you want noticeable and quick bursts of damage, Thunderlord's Decree is for you {{champion:1}} {{champion:7}} {{champion:103}} If you want to slowly widdle down an enemy with sustsained damage, then Deathfire Touch is really good. {{champion:63}} {{champion:143}} {{champion:50}} {{champion:34}} (well she can use either one imo)
DJ Di0 (NA)
: What would happen if DFG was brought back for preseason?
: > [{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2015-11-17T02:07:37.553+0000) > > She's being reworked? Didn't hear about that tbh. IDK honestly, i have just seen a few comment mentioning syndra's re work. not sure if they are refering to her passive cause a lot of ppl say her passive garbage cause it is only effective at lvl 9 and doesnt really give anything special it just adds the same thing to the same spells.
> [{quoted}](name=NostolgicSkies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=000300000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T02:12:33.599+0000) > > IDK honestly, i have just seen a few comment mentioning syndra's re work. not sure if they are refering to her passive cause a lot of ppl say her passive garbage cause it is only effective at lvl 9 and doesnt really give anything special it just adds the same thing to the same spells. Oh. Yeah, her passive has kind of felt underwhelming for me when I used to play her. Same thing for Karma haha
: idc if it comeback i just dont want them to re work syndra like they are saying she's so good and just cause ppl dont understand her mechanic doesnt mean she needs a re work. i wont ask for DFg riot if u promise not to re work syndra =(
> [{quoted}](name=NostolgicSkies,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2015-11-17T02:05:03.316+0000) > > idc if it comeback i just dont want them to re work syndra like they are saying she's so good and just cause ppl dont understand her mechanic doesnt mean she needs a re work. i wont ask for DFg riot if u promise not to re work syndra =( She's being reworked? Didn't hear about that tbh.
: > [{quoted}](name=DJ Di0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T01:59:14.802+0000) > > Hm, now that you mention it that would kind of make it easier for some mages to assassinate Marksmen, though knowing Riot and their recent ADC craze they'd probably nerf everything but the active and raise the price. 100 AP and 10% CDR with the active for 3400 would be fine.
> [{quoted}](name=Incognonymous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-17T01:59:32.800+0000) > > It would herald the return of DFG Malph. I remember being bopped by a DFG Malph who was hiding in a bush. Good times. > [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2015-11-17T02:00:54.842+0000) > > 100 AP and 10% CDR with the active for 3400 would be fine. Wouldn't mind that at all tbh.
: We need it so burst mages can screw over all the marksmen.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ivv5aYud,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-17T01:56:21.780+0000) > > We need it so burst mages can screw over all the marksmen. Hm, now that you mention it that would kind of make it easier for some mages to assassinate Marksmen, though knowing Riot and their recent ADC craze they'd probably nerf everything but the active and raise the price.
: List of champions that you claim are weak just because you get upvoted by doing so
Hey, in all fairness the Sona complaints were before the preseason patch. Lots of indirect buffs from the preseason patch put her in a much better spot.
Rioter Comments
passıon (NA)
: ARAM Dream Team
>No Sona Some dream team :^)
: u heal from zyra plants too. Get the fuck over it
> [{quoted}](name=Nice Henz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=I4gEAGFW,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2015-11-16T21:14:30.197+0000) > > u heal from zyra plants too. Get the fuck over it r u ok
: eh if you were higher it would be cool but its easier to learn and your spike in performance always goes up higher during the first times you play the game. Next year you probably wont even make diamond, plat 5 is pretty low as well. If you just played the game for fun nice but if you played to be good/competitive your still slackin
> [{quoted}](name=Genuwhine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=cft7Pkg8,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-03T02:40:13.313+0000) > > eh if you were higher it would be cool but its easier to learn and your spike in performance always goes up higher during the first times you play the game. Next year you probably wont even make diamond, plat 5 is pretty low as well. If you just played the game for fun nice but if you played to be good/competitive your still slackin Bruh, reaching top 8% of players in only one year is pretty impressive.
Hugify (NA)
: So Is AP kog'maw dead or not?
You basically use your ult as an execute now (25% or less health). I don't really like it because it feels like you just twiddle your dino-thumbs until your teammates get them low enough.
: There are 5 champions with winrates over 57%
Poor Koggles and Nidalee dropped horribly. :( Also pls don't nerf Sona it's Windspeakers that makes her good. (don't nerf that either tho)
: Current lowest winrates, any rioter wants to have a small talk?:)
I don't really know enough about the AD champions on that list other than their usual build paths got shafted, but I can speak about Nidalee I think. After several nerfs it's now pretty hard to assasinate anything unless you're very ahead, which is all she's good at anymore. Mid got hit so hard by the nerfs that it's not even on data-collecting radars anymore (Champion.gg), just so they could have her jungle (which they then nerfed.) From base ad nerfs, animation nerfs, utility nerfs (%damage on her traps removed, vision on trap spawn severely lowered) they really did overdo it in my opinion.
: Nerf Dragon Trainer Tristana
League confirmed pay2win.
Yrzen (NA)
: Guide to enjoying post-rework Sona
That build is actually 250% mana regen plus the mana font passive, which imo is a bit overkill. {{item:2301}} {{item:3100}} is enough mana and mana regen on items for me tbh. My build is: {{item:2301}} {{item:3158}} {{item:3041}} {{item:3100}} {{item:3094}} {{item:3285}} with 3 quints of scaling cdr. Or if you're behind or want to be slightly bulkier: {{item:2301}} {{item:3009}} {{item:3222}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3050}} {{item:3065}} windspeakrs synergizes really well with these items, though your damage will be pretty nonexistent.
: Less of a nerf, more of a change in power. AP kog'maw gets less poke, but has better kill potential. The duration of the mana cost does feel a little off, but I can see that as a balancing thing for AD kog. IN the end thou, I don't think Kog should recieve too many buffs until they balance out the meta. A champion that needs 2-3 items is going to fair poorly in this meta. - imo.
> [{quoted}](name=xl Kirito lx,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7aj4JNYI,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2015-11-15T08:32:04.677+0000) > > Less of a nerf, more of a change in power. Yea, that's what I meant by "overall had a negative impact on him". It isn't exactly more of a nerf than a buff in terms of power and numbers, it's just that it feels a lot more punishing than it used to to use your R and has shifted his AP playstyle quite a bit. >AP kog'maw gets less poke, but has better kill potential. The duration of the mana cost does feel a little off, but I can see that as a balancing thing for AD kog. IN the end thou, I don't think Kog should recieve too many buffs until they balance out the meta. A champion that needs 2-3 items is going to fair poorly in this meta. > > - imo.
: Yeah Kog's winrate is also pretty bad right now. He needs the love, not the base stats they are buffing on the pbe. Sure base stats help, but letting him poke with his ult more often (which already does low damage to healthy targets) would make him feel more fun to play as well as actually buffing him.
> [{quoted}](name=RisenDarkKnight,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=7aj4JNYI,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2015-11-15T07:35:04.934+0000) > > Yeah Kog's winrate is also pretty bad right now. He needs the love, not the base stats they are buffing on the pbe. Sure base stats help, but letting him poke with his ult more often (which already does low damage to healthy targets) would make him feel more fun to play as well as actually buffing him. I agree. While I think the W change was interesting, it feels like they just took so much away from him to be able to have that.
Rioter Comments
: Zyra Support Thoughts?
I love Zyra, but you have to be /really/ careful about your positioning, even more than Sona because you don't have a shield or heal. Played right, however, she can deal a lot of damage without building it. (Technically) If you do decide to buy her, I suggest going {{item:2301}} {{item:3020}} {{item:3116}} {{item:3151}} {{item:3285}} and if you somehow get to lategame finish it off with {{item:3157}}
: Am I the only one who notices the huge Soraka buffs this patch?
In my opinion, IF she feels too strong it'll be because of Windspeaker's Blessing and Runic Armor, but if something has to be nerfed it should be her. Windspeakers lets the other supports be better at sustain without having to invest in assloads of AP (Sona, Nami, Janna, Bard), so if Soraka is nerfed then everyone can still use that mastery like they are right now. And before anyone thinks I hate Soraka or anything she was my second most played champion last season; https://i.gyazo.com/8c1efa76ab68ef1df52f0f1ebeb51467.png I'm just looking out for the other sustain supports that are finally being played more.
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DJ Di0

Level 13 (NA)
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