Spârky (NA)
: Upvoted because I completely agree with this. Everyone complains about how riot never listens to the community but i think they finally listened to the community too much which caused this meta.
It's less about how often a developer listens to the community, more which feedback they decide to act on. The average player is not an expert in game design, it's the dev's job to figure out which suggestions are good for the game and implement those, but not the ones that aren't.
: We,The Community, Are Primarily The Ones Responsible For The Current State Of The Game, Not Riot.
I disagree, personally. Riot's job as a game developer, from the perspective of the consumer, is to manage the best game it can. This takes a lot of different things, but a core part of that skillset is realizing which feedback you receive actually furthers that goal. Players don't always know what's best for them, that's why we rely on the developer to parse feedback and not implement everything people toss around. --- Example: Players of an MMORPG want the level curve to be more shallow, so getting to endgame is easier. Reason: Getting to endgame takes too long. Reality: A shallow level curve means there is likely to be less overall investment in the title and a shorter gameplay experience, plus the progression system loses value. These are all bad things for a MMORPG. --- In other words, it's Riot's job to figure out which feedback they should implement, not ours.
Keyru (NA)
: Discord Verification
Keyru (NA)
: Discord Verification
Keyru (NA)
: Discord Verification
Keyru (NA)
: Discord Verification
: > [{quoted}](name=Deep Terror Nami,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N2vE7iws,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2016-11-27T23:48:05.714+0000) > > You are free to create (or continue playing on) another account if you've reformed, but they do not remove permanent bans anymore. Sorry. I get it that you're basically an unpaid intern from Riot, but that does not give you the right to define me as a person from what I've said very long ago. I'm hurt that you used that as a personal attack on me.
> [{quoted}](name=CST Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N2vE7iws,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-11-27T23:52:16.545+0000) > > I get it that you're basically an unpaid intern from Riot, but that does not give you the right to define me as a person from what I've said very long ago. I'm hurt that you used that as a personal attack on me. To be fair, it's not exactly a personal attack to quote someone's exact words, in context, back to them. That being said, I'm really glad to see you're working towards reform, you've been doing a great job so far!
: > [{quoted}](name=Hryna,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N2vE7iws,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-11-27T23:35:54.088+0000) > > If it's his video to Tyler1 he's referring to banned permanently from being able to play (as in banning his accounts on sight), or in Jensen's case being banned from participating in lcs (both as coaching staff and player). So no, it doesn't apply to your case. Yes, it was that video. I figured that as much. Even if it's the same response, I'd like to have a Rioter comment just to make sure. If that would be possible.
> [{quoted}](name=CST Resonance,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=N2vE7iws,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-11-27T23:42:46.198+0000) > > Yes, it was that video. I figured that as much. Even if it's the same response, I'd like to have a Rioter comment just to make sure. If that would be possible. If I recall correctly, Jensen's original account was never unbanned. He had a permanent lifetime suspension for all present and future accounts, and due to his behavioral improvement he was afforded the chance to become part of the community again. Provided I am indeed correct about the circumstances surrounding his suspension, the precedent has not changed. Permanent suspensions remain permanent, unless the punishment was unjust.
: Daily Reminder that the Boards dont resemble the majority of the Playerbase
>most of the people playing league feel indifferent about DQ I absolutely agree with this. The key to consider, however, is that if most people playing League feel indifferent about DQ, did they also feel indifferent about SQ (provided New Champion Select is removed as a variable)? If so, then the majority of the playerbase actually *doesn't matter* when it comes to the decision of whether or not Dynamic Queue is a good/ideal approach. I know that sounds callous, but if the majority of the playerbase doesn't care one way or the other then the decision should be tailored for one (or both) of the following: * New players, to increase player acquisition * Core/dedicated players, to increase player retention The Boards and reddit are, in theory, disproportionately higher in core/dedicated players than a statistically random survey. These platforms are also (again, in theory) disproportionately more likely to have dialogue that offers critique and criticism than the reverse, since that's usually more worth talking about. That being said, I wouldn't necessarily say that just because the Boards/reddit is not the majority we shouldn't be offering critique. --- I don't have a direct source on this (if anyone does, please help me out), but apparently a Rioter posted recently saying over **ten percent** of the playerbase is heavily against Dynamic Queue. This might not sound like a lot, but ten percent is an astronomical number when considering just how many people that actually is in a community of this size. Is it the majority? No. Is it a statistically significant percentage? **Absolutely**. Another important question to ask, about that ten percent: What is the investment distribution of that 10%? Is it primarily comprised of dedicated players, including content creators, professionals, etc.? If so, do these people have a disproportionately high influence over others due to their positions in the community?
: Demoted for losing one time at 0 LP?
Demotions are based on MMR differences, rather than simple numbers. My expectation is that your MMR was slightly lower than the division you dropped from (Silver II), so the demotion happened almost instantly to try to align your visible rank with your MMR.
1pctsane (NA)
: Does league of legends have a franchise face?
I would love to see either Braum or a Poro be the face of League of Legends, personally. Katarina's probably the most recognizable since she's been on League of Legends art since before dinosaurs roamed the earth, but a man can dream dammit.
: And I'm Spartacus. Glad we got that all sorted out.
> [{quoted}](name=Cpt Jack Bird,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Q6hK1QG2,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T21:59:27.580+0000) > > And I'm Spartacus. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e2sq409UGtY
: Where do I find a job. Seriously though
> [{quoted}](name=AramsAreBest,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Q6hK1QG2,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-07-09T20:37:42.120+0000) > > Where do I find a job. Seriously though I found mine through Craigslist, actually. There are occasionally some really great opportunities that come through informal channels like that, just keep your eyes open and have an open mind.
: Ahh, I just thought the timing was funny. It's like there must always be a ~~lich king~~ active moderator on this board. NO MORE. Wait. Dammit, Wuks.
> [{quoted}](name=Cpt Jack Bird,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=Q6hK1QG2,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-07-09T19:29:47.132+0000) > > Ahh, I just thought the timing was funny. Just a coincidence! > It&#x27;s like there must always be a ~~lich king~~ active <arbiter> on this board. NO MORE. WE ARE ONE. WE ARE MANY.
: THIS DAEN GUY
Ohai! I was one of the founding members of the program (along with Elduris, Ulanopo, and Wuks) and was active for the first ~6 months or so, then real life got in the way and I had to spend most of my time looking for then getting acclimated to my new job. I've gotten settled in a lot better and have figured out my work-life balance, which is why I've gotten back to posting more often. >him (or her? I'm all on blind guessing here) Him, in case you're curious. :P
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=00020000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T03:12:11.559+0000) > > Using this example, let&#x27;s say that I don&#x27;t say anything warranting verbal abuse, but I&#x27;m scripting during the games in which I&#x27;m reported for being negative. Should Riot ignore my violation (cheating) simply because I wasn&#x27;t reported under the right category? That is EXACTLY whaat i am saying. There is an option to report someone for cheating. What you propose is spam reporting someone you dont like and hoping the system picks something up they've done. Reporting someone for being "negative" when they werent "negative" is a lie and its a false report. What if i called the police and said you beat your wife and children and they know its false. Should they now be allowed to search your entire house and vehicles for things they might see as being illegal? How the fuck did you ever get to be an arbiter.
> [{quoted}](name=centuriation55,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=000200000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T18:30:09.024+0000) > > That is EXACTLY whaat i am saying. There is an option to report someone for cheating. What you propose is spam reporting someone you dont like and hoping the system picks something up they&#x27;ve done. Reporting someone for being &quot;negative&quot; when they werent &quot;negative&quot; is a lie and its a false report. Agreed. That being said, however, if Riot happens to notice that a player has been cheating while investigating something else on that account, there is no reason, legal or otherwise, for them to ignore it. >What if i called the police and said you beat your wife and children and they know its false. Should they now be allowed to search your entire house and vehicles for things they might see as being illegal? This example isn't quite a parallel, the situation I'm referencing is more like this: --- Let's say you called the police to say I beat my wife and children, then they investigate whether or not that's true. In the process of investigation, they learn that I am indeed not assaulting my family, but they find two dead bodies in my garage. Alternatively, let's say I get pulled over for driving erratically. While getting my insurance paperwork out of my glovebox, the officer notices a brick of cocaine and a gun sitting there. --- In both of these examples, the officers have probable cause for arrest, even though the initial reason for contact was different. This concept is very similar in League of Legends, with the difference being that Riot Games has complete legal precedent to do a comprehensive audit of anyone's account at any time. If they find a breach of the ToS while investigating something else, it's fair game.
Slyfer (EUNE)
: I got immediately 2 week ban for intentionaly feed.I wasnt banned before for like 1 year. I have few questions too for community.. 1.how much reports i need like to get permament suspension (its not my will im just asking) what if i get in a team with 4 premade and they report me becose i didnt listen them or something stupid ? btw what is about all my money that i spend on my acc if i get perma (i have 41 skin) 2.Why i dont get smaller punish becouse it is just one game (i had bad day) 3.What if in a future a enemy player is better than me and he get feeded becouse i "feed" and my ally team report me for intentionally feed.Will i get PERMABAN ?????
> [{quoted}](name=Slyfer,realm=EUNE,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=JIUmBhWb,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-09T16:33:42.722+0000) > >I got immediately 2 week ban for intentionaly feed.I wasnt banned before for like 1 year. If you were banned at any point previously then intentionally fed, I'd say the punishment is probably warranted. Intentional feeding is treated extremely seriously, because it is one of the fastest ways to completely ruin a game for all nine other players. >1.how much reports i need like to get permament suspension It depends on a lot of other factors, including severity of the action, previous punishments, etc. > what if i get in a team with 4 premade and they report me becose i didnt listen them or something stupid If they report you for something where you aren't doing anything wrong, those reports will be discarded and thus not used against you. >btw what is about all my money that i spend on my acc if i get perma (i have 41 skin) Riot is the legal owner of your account, so if you are permanently suspended they have no obligation whatsoever to provide refunds. >2.Why i dont get smaller punish becouse it is just one game (i had bad day) As mentioned above, intentional feeding is a serious offense. You also mentioned that you were banned previously, so I expect the system considered the relapse to be an indication of a lack of reform. >3.What if in a future a enemy player is better than me and he get feeded becouse i "feed" and my ally team report me for intentionally feed.Will i get PERMABAN ????? As long as it isn't intentional, no. It's reasonably easy to determine the difference between intentional feeding and simply having a bad game, and Riot always errs on the side of accuracy.
: I don't know how to retrieve those.
> [{quoted}](name=leagueofAtrain,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=tKs70AjH,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-09T07:01:40.697+0000) > > I don&#x27;t know how to retrieve those. When you first logged into the client after receiving the restriction, did an interface show up that allowed you to view your chat logs? If not, check the email address associated with League of Legends. It's possible it went to junk or spam, so check there too.
Oh Genet (NA)
: hey riot it not fair
In the vast majority of cases, this kind of thing is caused due to hardware or software on the client side messing with the game's startup. If this is a consistent thing I highly recommend making a support case so you can work with Riot to try to figure out what's causing it. As for the fairness, the reason leaver penalties exist is that, even with /remake, having someone AFK is a really demoralizing experience. In a game like LoL, where teamwork is super important and you generally spend a half hour or so together, a leaver can ruin that whole experience and carry forward into other experiences.
: Chat restrion for neutrally discribing events/ Chat restriction abuse/ Premades ganging up on randos
Do you happen to have chat logs you can show us, if critique is what you're looking for?
: Ticket flooding is not only not punishable, but the support staff has no means of even blacklisting/stopping you. If you were to, say, write a script to email them constantly, they'd still have to non-script copy-paste an answer to each.
> [{quoted}](name=Cpt Jack Bird,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=qx8Ji1co,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-09T04:49:39.306+0000) > > Ticket flooding is not only not punishable, but the support staff has no means of even blacklisting/stopping you. If you were to, say, write a script to email them constantly, they&#x27;d still have to non-script copy-paste an answer to each. Do you have a source on this?
: Ticket flooding punishable ?
Disclaimer: Speaking on this from the perspective of personal logic, not as an insider. As someone that has worked in support, it's relatively clear when tickets come in and there is no point to them other than spam or whatever. It's also relatively easy to set up rules that can filter through obvious spam. For Riot specifically, most ticket categories require being logged in; if they noticed a huge volume of spam tickets coming from a particular account, I have a hard time thinking they wouldn't either block that account from ever sending future support tickets or issue a warning.
: > [{quoted}](name=yerteenagedream,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rMvRPuX1,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-09T04:33:40.234+0000) > > OK? It happens I'm saying that I apparently got it for no reason. Or any reason that I _know_ of
> [{quoted}](name=Dimetri White,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=rMvRPuX1,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T04:37:51.582+0000) > > I&#x27;m saying that I apparently got it for no reason. Or any reason that I _know_ of > the last time I got punishment from leaverbuster was about 2 weeks ago I'm not 100% on the specifics of LeaverBuster, but if it's anything like the report system its memory is a bit longer than 2 weeks. It's likely that the disconnection issues you had were close enough together that it considered the account's leaver status to still be slightly elevated, which would explain why one disconnection resulted in a second LPQ punishment after a recent previous one.
Sukishoo (NA)
: >Why does blocking another player even exist if i can still get in a game with him on my team, and i cant still have a full conversation with him in and out of the game. Ooooh woooo he cant be on my friends list. Well of course he cant because why the hell would i ever put that kind of person on there. I believe something needs to be done about what "blocking" actually does. Blocking cannot stop you from being matched with players, yes there's 60+ Million in league but that's spread across all servers and it has to find people that are around the same MMR as you be it normal or ranked modes. It cannot just push everyone away every time you find someone that you feel is toxic to you or another person, then there'd be almost nothing left in the end to play with or against. As in still seeing it, I've had it happen but that was cause I previously muted them and ran into them in another game and it removed the block but still showed up as a block cause they had it registered as me having blocked the person. Most of the time it's when the block list is just full it cannot keep blocking people.
> [{quoted}](name=Sukishoo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1APzfmRJ,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-08T23:49:40.391+0000) > > Blocking cannot stop you from being matched with players, yes there&#x27;s 60+ Million in league but that&#x27;s spread across all servers and it has to find people that are around the same MMR as you be it normal or ranked modes. It cannot just push everyone away every time you find someone that you feel is toxic to you or another person, then there&#x27;d be almost nothing left in the end to play with or against. Very true. To expand on this just a bit, imagine the effect hard blocking would have on high ELO play. Players could basically just block anyone higher than themselves and be the best player in every single game, but eventually it'd catch up with everyone and make queue times completely impossible for all people involved. Hard blocking has some huge negatives, even in a giant community like LoL's, so it's something I can't see Riot ever approaching.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T01:00:47.769+0000) > > That is not at all what he&#x27;s saying. The reports that player received *were* valid, but the reason assigned to the suspension wasn&#x27;t correct, thus the confusion. In other words, the punishment was processed for the right reason but issued to the player via an incorrect reason code. Oh ok, so in your mind if i play a game with you and send 9 reports your way for verbal abuse and you didnt speak ONE word, you feel those arent false reports if the system can detect you did something else? Care to explain your definition of a false report because giving an account three warnings with empty chat cards (proving the system didnt wipe out "verbal abuse" reports as false) and permabanning an account without any ACTUAL warning is bullshit.
> [{quoted}](name=centuriation55,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T02:16:27.177+0000) > > Oh ok, so in your mind if i play a game with you and send 9 reports your way for verbal abuse and you didnt speak ONE word, you feel those arent false reports if the system can detect you did something else? Care to explain your definition of a false report because giving an account three warnings with empty chat cards (proving the system didnt wipe out &quot;verbal abuse&quot; reports as false) and permabanning an account without any ACTUAL warning is bullshit. Using this example, let's say that I don't say anything warranting verbal abuse, but I'm scripting during the games in which I'm reported for being negative. Should Riot ignore my violation (cheating) simply because I wasn't reported under the right category?
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2016-07-08T15:02:16.701+0000) > > As KEI143 mentioned, false reports are ignored when it comes to any punishments (chat restrictions, bans, etc.). If players want to blame you and vent their rage by reporting, those reports will have no effect whatsoever provided the chat is indeed innocuous. http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/faXsHil7-permanently-banned-for-no-reason As stated by tantrum, the system will find a reason for the false reports not throw them out .
> [{quoted}](name=centuriation55,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=arenX3g5,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2016-07-09T00:44:47.974+0000) > > http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/player-behavior-moderation/faXsHil7-permanently-banned-for-no-reason As stated by tantrum, the system will find a reason for the false reports not throw them out . That is not at all what he's saying. The reports that player received *were* valid, but the reason assigned to the suspension wasn't correct, thus the confusion. In other words, the punishment was processed for the right reason but issued to the player via an incorrect reason code.
: I talked in a game recently. I didn't say anything toxic, and I'm pretty sure no one reported me.
As KEI143 mentioned, false reports are ignored when it comes to any punishments (chat restrictions, bans, etc.). If players want to blame you and vent their rage by reporting, those reports will have no effect whatsoever provided the chat is indeed innocuous.
Vesarixx (NA)
: I have an important question for Riot
The one that always gets to me is Snowstorm Sivir. Shivir tho
: Banned for nothing?
The support ticket you submitted is probably going to be your best bet, Player Behavior & Moderation is mainly intended to be for player-to-player interaction and there's not really anything we (players) can do to help you with this at the moment. Let us know how it goes though!
: League Bug Gets Me Demoted
From what I understand, these bugs are due to hardware/software interactions with the client, not necessarily the client itself. I know that's a pretty lame answer, but the TL;DR of it is that something's going on with your particular configuration that is occasionally messing with the game during loading. You could always try opening up a [Support Ticket](https://support.riotgames.com/hc/en-us) to see if there are any conflicts Riot can find, maybe there's a specific interaction going on that's causing this problem for you.
: Well, one rioter responsible for this DQ crap has already been grounded.
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=AI6TB3Z1,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-26T13:53:18.994+0000) > > Well, one rioter responsible for this DQ crap has already been grounded. Do you have a source on that?
: Months ahead of you boy. And no, that is not the reason, that is a bad measure taken by Riot, try again.
> [{quoted}](name=SonicDeatMonkey,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zq0VKgYW,comment-id=000100020000,timestamp=2016-06-21T01:01:04.288+0000) > > Months ahead of you boy. And no, that is not the reason, that is a bad measure taken by Riot, try again. Well...let's look at it a different way. In a pure solo queue system, every individual player is brought into the game based on his or her individual MMR. This means that, for solo play, the matchmaking algorithm tries to bring every player in the game as close to the mean MMR as possible. Premades completely mess this up, because MMR differences between players in a premade can be wildly different. One player might have the MMR of a Silver V whereas the other might have the MMR of a Gold I, and both of these players can now be in the same game. Matchmaking still tries to get everyone as close to the mean MMR as possible, but it's impossible to do so as accurately as solo queue. TLDR: Premades can have higher variance than solos. Thus, matchmaking problems via Dynamic Queue.
Aír (NA)
: Well, isn't the big issue with Dynamic Queue the fact that we can queue up with as many people as we want? I was pretty sure that was where most of the complaints were coming from.
> [{quoted}](name=Airman CompSci,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ArNErXgX,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-20T15:03:47.343+0000) > > Well, isn&#x27;t the big issue with Dynamic Queue the fact that we can queue up with as many people as we want? I was pretty sure that was where most of the complaints were coming from. It is, but the key is that the survey they did was before players were exposed to the system and its potential effects on the atmosphere.
Aír (NA)
: They have done a survey like this recently. According to that data (this is rough numbers from the comment from the Rioter), over 70% of people either like it or really like it, 10% really don't care, ~7.5% don't like it, and ~7.5% really don't like it.
> [{quoted}](name=Airman CompSci,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ArNErXgX,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-20T13:00:40.964+0000) > > They have done a survey like this recently. According to that data (this is rough numbers from the comment from the Rioter), over 70% of people either like it or really like it, 10% really don&#x27;t care, ~7.5% don&#x27;t like it, and ~7.5% really don&#x27;t like it. Here is the exact quote you're misquoting: "We did surveys asking players "do you like the ability to queue with any number of people in ranked" and in most regions the majority of players (over 70%) said yes, they do. ~10% didn't care, another ~7.5% sort of didn't like it, and the rest (something like ~7.5%) of players REALLY didn't like it." \- Cactopus Here are some of the problems with this. This survey is **NOT** asking whether or not people like Dynamic Queue, it's simply asking whether or not people like queuing with additional people in ranked. From the context I think it's safe to assume this survey data is from *before* Dynamic Queue was released, due to how vague the question is. Another problem lies in the response options given by Cactopus. The response options are as follows: * I like it * I don't care * I sort of don't like it * I really don't like it Do you see the problem here? There are two possible negative options and only one positive option that covers all possible positive opinions, plus it's missing a really important option. Here is what the response options *should* be: * I really like it * **I somewhat like it** * I don't care * I somewhat don't like it * I really don't like it * **I like some aspects and don't like others** --- I'd love to see a ***current*** survey done now that people have been using Dynamic Queue for ~six months that asks the following questions: 1) What is Dynamic Queue? * The system that allows any number of players to queue together in Ranked * The system that allows players to select roles before queuing up * Both A and B * Neither A nor B 2) Do you play Ranked Draft or have any interest in doing so now or in the future? * Yes * No 3) Do you feel that Dynamic Queue increases your enjoyment in Ranked Draft, as compared to other implementation possibilities? * I strongly agree * I somewhat agree * I don't feel strongly one way or the other * I somewhat disagree * I strongly disagree 4) Do you feel that Dynamic Queue increases the competitiveness of Ranked Draft, as compared to other implementation possibilities? * I strongly agree * I somewhat agree * I don't feel strongly one way or the other * I somewhat disagree * I strongly disagree If the player answers something other than A for question 1 or question 2, that person's response is discarded. This is to ensure that all responses calculated into the data are by players that know what they are giving feedback about and actually utilize the feature being surveyed.
: So does Challenger Nidalee and (I think) Chosen Master Yi popping out of the fog of war.
So does Jayce occasionally when he switches stances.
: > To make people who like dynamic queue happy, you have to make people who like solo queue sad. It does seems that way, right? So (and I'm just gauging community reaction here, because I'm curious) what do people honestly think about other more drastic solutions like a split ladder for solo played games and group played games in dynamic queue? Different LP, different rank, same queue (so you'd avoid splitting the playerbase and making queue times and matchmaking worse).
A split ladder would *absolutely* be better than the current system, but to me the better question is whether a change like this would be better than a fully supported dual-queue system of Solo + Ranked 5s. I'm aware Riot isn't particularly enamored with Ranked 5s as a concept, but they were also extremely poorly thought out and supported while they still existed. A Ranked 5s system with a larger pool open per team (e.g. clubs) and with Riot-sponsored tournaments would likely support players that want that experience **far** better than any changes to Dynamic Queue can. The downside is that the community gets split into two queues instead of all being in one, but the question is whether that downside is worth the fact that each of those two queues would support the community to which they are designed to cater **much** better.
: > [{quoted}](name=Jaawn,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BAeiIEW5,comment-id=000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-19T00:16:22.499+0000) > > Suggestion for how to make matchmaking better: have pure solo queue ranked and pure 5v5 ranked and a dynamic queue for normals. Easy fix. so you want the same matchmaking that we had before DQ? the one EVERYONE complained because it was terrible? wow such a great idea you have there, such an easy fix
> [{quoted}](name=ZephyrDrake,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BAeiIEW5,comment-id=0000000000000000000000000001,timestamp=2016-06-19T00:26:29.219+0000) > > so you want the same matchmaking that we had before DQ? the one EVERYONE complained because it was terrible? wow such a great idea you have there, such an easy fix Do you have a source where everyone is complaining about the matchmaking we had before DQ? Also, why is the assumption here that DQ resolves these complaints?
Lywoe (NA)
: if people can't master the champs they have why introduce new ones? You are making people who come in worst at the game rather than better. Hence why Bronze is 1000 times worst every season.
> [{quoted}](name=Lywoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mp9oN5AM,comment-id=001000010000,timestamp=2016-06-14T14:48:41.216+0000) > > Hence why Bronze is 1000 times worst every season. [Citation Needed]
: I partially blame Riot for this confusion as they released them at the same time and tried to make them seem like they go hand in hand together. And now for months and months we have to deal with people making arguments about one of the other that are false because the new champ select and DQ are completely different.
> [{quoted}](name=sir d wreck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mK2zAW19,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-14T01:32:05.282+0000) > > I partially blame Riot for this confusion as they released them at the same time and tried to make them seem like they go hand in hand together. And now for months and months we have to deal with people making arguments about one of the other that are false because the new champ select and DQ are completely different. Partially? This confusion is *entirely* Riot's fault, and they are not helping by saying things like [this](https://www.reddit.com/r/leagueoflegends/comments/4lxiv8/dynamic_queue_and_the_future_of_league/d3t3tou): "I don't know why everyone keeps saying they're separate things. We built a new system. People are calling half of it one thing, and half of it another. How come no one is referring to the "new premade lobby" and "new draft bans" as separate systems as well?"
: Because "the majority" isn't the majority. Do I think DQ is not great? Yeah pretty much. Is DQ better for normies and casual below Diamond? Likely. There's probably just a huge amount of people who don't even give a fuck. Besides: If it was truly unpopular, ala SKT skins? They'd pull it.
> [{quoted}](name=CaptainMårvelous,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mp9oN5AM,comment-id=000d,timestamp=2016-06-13T23:07:12.843+0000) > > Because &quot;the majority&quot; isn&#x27;t the majority. > > Do I think DQ is not great? Yeah pretty much. > Is DQ better for normies DQ was already the status quo for normal queues, this change **only** affects Ranked play. > There&#x27;s probably just a huge amount of people who don&#x27;t even give a fuck. Besides: If it was truly unpopular, ala SKT skins? They&#x27;d pull it. Should these people that don't give a fuck be valued more than the people that actually care about the direction the game is going simply because they are the majority?
Lywoe (NA)
: don't worry we will get a useless champion before they fix any Queue! No one will ask for this champ either.
> [{quoted}](name=Lywoe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mp9oN5AM,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2016-06-14T12:35:23.348+0000) > > don&#x27;t worry we will get a useless champion before they fix any Queue! No one will ask for this champ either. Completely different teams, a champion being released has no bearing whatsoever on the timetable for social system changes.
: The fact is, the "Majority" of players isn't the actual majority. The actual majority, which is not on the boards, either is apathetic or likes DQ. Riot's player surveys have shown that. The boards is not the majority of the players, but in fact, a very small minority.
> [{quoted}](name=ReshiKillim,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mp9oN5AM,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-13T17:26:33.893+0000) > > The fact is, the &quot;Majority&quot; of players isn&#x27;t the actual majority. The actual majority, which is not on the boards, either is apathetic or likes DQ. Riot&#x27;s player surveys have shown that. The boards is not the majority of the players, but in fact, a very small minority. The question to ask is, should the people that are apathetic overrule the people that are the most passionate about the game simply because they are the majority? What I've gathered from all of these discussions thus far is that the majority of people don't particularly care one way or another but that there's a core of heavily competitive and influential players that vehemently disagree with the direction it's taking the game. That core playerbase is what made League of Legends strong to begin with, and making such a significant change that negatively affects that core while slightly improving the experience for the apathetic majority is something that should require a lot of forethought. I'm aware Riot wants to appeal to everyone with ranked play, but realistically speaking Dynamic Queue sacrifices a lot more than Solo + Ranked 5s.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=000300010000000000000001,timestamp=2016-06-14T04:06:31.820+0000) > If League of Legends is a competitive team game and yet the most competitive players can&#x27;t play as a team, there is a **fundamental** problem with the structure of the experience. There's just not enough players at that elo to reasonably match up opponents. That has nothing to do with Dynamic Queue. That problem has always existed, it's just that now instead of waiting an hour to be matched against 5 plats, high level teams just don't play at all. Seems about the same in terms of effectiveness. The game is TOO competitive. F there's only so many people allowed in Master and Challenger how can any 5 players in that level expect there will be another 5 players around the same level queuing up at any time?
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=0003000100000000000000010000,timestamp=2016-06-14T04:24:11.556+0000) > > There&#x27;s just not enough players at that elo to reasonably match up opponents. That has nothing to do with Dynamic Queue. That problem has always existed, it&#x27;s just that now instead of waiting an hour to be matched against 5 plats, high level teams just don&#x27;t play at all. Seems about the same in terms of effectiveness. Queue times went up *significantly* for high tier players with the addition of Dynamic Queue/New Champion Select, though a lot of this can be attributed to NCS more than it can be attributed to DQ. That being said, the fact professional players are deciding to completely ignore the ranked ladder is making the problem **much** worse than it has been in the past, and ***that*** can be attributed almost entirely to these changes. > The game is TOO competitive. F there&#x27;s only so many people allowed in Master and Challenger how can any 5 players in that level expect there will be another 5 players around the same level queuing up at any time? Master is not capped. Regardless, the issue isn't the number of people in Master/Challenger, it's that the top players' MMR is far higher than everyone else's. As you mentioned before, the North American region is not large enough or skilled enough to support a significant population of Master/Challenger quality players. --- The question to ask, at this stage, is to wonder if there's anything that can possibly be done to raise the overall skill and competitiveness of the region. I'd argue that Dynamic Queue diminishes this, as does the fact that there aren't training exercises players can easily engage with and the fact replays can be a pain to deal with. To me, Dynamic Queue is the wrong solution to the right problem. You're absolutely right about the issues that exist and Riot's intent for fixing them, but Dynamic Queue (and autofill) made all of these problems **significantly** worse while slightly improving the experience for people that didn't even play ranked in the way it enabled beforehand.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=0003000100000000,timestamp=2016-06-13T22:25:19.047+0000) > > I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if the impact of Dynamic Queue&#x27;s toxicity reduction is overstated, and anecdotally I&#x27;ve actually derived *more* frustration from having to play with large premades than when it was limited to one duo per team. > If you're not going to believe the company's words when they reach out to talk to us, then you're only discouraging Riot from further communicating. > Also, how do you respond to the fact it&#x27;s now **impossible** to play in the ranked ladder as a full premade (*the purest definition of teamwork in League of Legends*) if you are one of the game&#x27;s most competitive and skilled players? I...don't care? The large majority of premades and full premades are unaffected. Large majority. Like...20 million+ players every day that can play whatever premade or solo they want. And maybe 3-4 million who can "only" play with up to 3 people. Seems fair to me. That's how you compromise.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=00030001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-13T22:59:50.711+0000) > > If you&#x27;re not going to believe the company&#x27;s words when they reach out to talk to us, then you&#x27;re only discouraging Riot from further communicating. What I want is for Riot to communicate honestly and with their cards on the table. The way they have communicated this issue to the community thus far is basically "we have data that supports our conclusions, but since it's private you'll just have to trust us", and that is **not** how you encourage reasonable discourse. > I...don&#x27;t care? The large majority of premades and full premades are unaffected. Large majority. Like...20 million+ players every day that can play whatever premade or solo they want. And maybe 3-4 million who can &quot;only&quot; play with up to 3 people. Seems fair to me. That&#x27;s how you compromise. If League of Legends is a competitive team game and yet the most competitive players can't play as a team, there is a **fundamental** problem with the structure of the experience.
: Real quick question, would people believe the stats regardless? What's to stop people from saying those stats aren't real?
> [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=000900000000,timestamp=2016-06-13T21:37:50.729+0000) > > Real quick question, would people believe the stats regardless? What&#x27;s to stop people from saying those stats aren&#x27;t real? It depends on how Riot displays the stats. If it's done to intentionally mask real data, like they did in their Dynamic Queue announcement with that graph showing how big a difference exists by queueing with a premade, people will tear it apart. If it's done such that it's an impartial look at the data they are using, it'll be far easier to accept.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=00030001,timestamp=2016-06-13T21:01:23.442+0000) > > 1) Where are you getting that 6 million figure from? > > 2a) Why on earth would we want to force the most influential and competitive players to put up with a bad experience, especially if we validate that by saying &quot;they make money so they can deal with it&quot;? > > 2b) Why are we assuming that the negative experiences of the most influential and competitive players don&#x27;t trickle down to many other people? If people in Challenger don&#x27;t like being in Challenger, people in Master might decide it&#x27;s not worth it. If people in Master don&#x27;t feel like being competitive, what point is there in moving from Diamond to Master? > > 3) Here&#x27;s the thing: I&#x27;m gold, and Dynamic Queue does **not** support my playstyle. The whole point of League of Legends&#x27; ranked system is to reward *individual* skill, why else would it show *individual* rank and involve *individual* rewards? 1) You're right, the last figure released was 27 million people that log on each day. So the bottom 98% is somewhere around 25 million people who are benefiting or gaining neutral value from Dynamic Queue. 2) Because they are suffering so that everyone else can experience a better system. 3) Riot has changed that system entirely. League of Legends rank is now a display of your ability to coordinate with your team, supply vision, rotate and trade effectively and control neutral objectives. All of these are much better represented by a premade with communication than by individual skill.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2016-06-13T21:57:05.131+0000) > > 1) You&#x27;re right, the last figure released was 27 million people that log on each day. So the bottom 98% is somewhere around 25 million people who are benefiting or gaining neutral value from Dynamic Queue. I speak only for myself, but I feel I am losing value from Dynamic Queue despite being in the bottom percentages. If you are going to insinuate that the vast majority of the community is benefiting, you'll need to provide statistics to back up that claim. > 2) Because they are suffering so that everyone else can experience a better system. Is the system truly better for everyone else, though? Is the ability to carry each other through the ranks worth losing individual agency and a ton of support from the most influential players in the game? I wouldn't be surprised if the impact of Dynamic Queue's toxicity reduction is overstated, and anecdotally I've actually derived *more* frustration from having to play with large premades than when it was limited to one duo per team. > 3) Riot has changed that system entirely. League of Legends rank is now a display of your ability to coordinate with your team, supply vision, rotate and trade effectively and control neutral objectives. All of these are much better represented by a premade with communication than by individual skill. Nothing is really shared in ranked other than the ability to play with friends; ranks are separate, promotional games aren't handled the same way across the premade, etc. I'm Gold III, but someone I'm in a premade with might be Platinum I or Silver V and that's directly linked to each person's **individual** skill level. All ranking done through the system specifically rewards individual play, despite what Riot is saying to the contrary. Dynamic Queue was introduced to enhance teamplay, but it doesn't have **any** of the supportive systems necessary for it to actually accomplish that goal. Also, how do you respond to the fact it's now **impossible** to play in the ranked ladder as a full premade (*the purest definition of teamwork in League of Legends*) if you are one of the game's most competitive and skilled players?
: The top 1% get screwed over. Fine, The other 6 million players are mostly positively affected. And as he points out, the top 1% gain the most from the game. They make streaming or YouTube careers out of it, they are professional players. They can put up with a bad experience if it earns them money. Every other minimum wage job is miserable. The Bronze/Silver/Gold players shouldn't be punished by losing a system that supports their playstyle just because the Plats/Diamonds/Masters feel like their individual skill is less relevant. Not completely meaningless, less relevant.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=3UHLbK86,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2016-06-13T16:15:52.470+0000) > > The top 1% get screwed over. Fine, The other 6 million players are mostly positively affected. And as he points out, the top 1% gain the most from the game. They make streaming or YouTube careers out of it, they are professional players. > > They can put up with a bad experience if it earns them money. Every other minimum wage job is miserable. > > The Bronze/Silver/Gold players shouldn&#x27;t be punished by losing a system that supports their playstyle just because the Plats/Diamonds/Masters feel like their individual skill is less relevant. Not completely meaningless, less relevant. 1) Where are you getting that 6 million figure from? 2a) Why on earth would we want to force the most influential and competitive players to put up with a bad experience, especially if we validate that by saying "they make money so they can deal with it"? 2b) Why are we assuming that the negative experiences of the most influential and competitive players don't trickle down to many other people? If people in Challenger don't like being in Challenger, people in Master might decide it's not worth it. If people in Master don't feel like being competitive, what point is there in moving from Diamond to Master? 3) Here's the thing: I'm gold, and Dynamic Queue does **not** support my playstyle. The whole point of League of Legends' ranked system is to reward *individual* skill, why else would it show *individual* rank and involve *individual* rewards?
: Dynamic Q - Its bad and finally Explained with reason
Agreed on pretty much everything he says. The point he makes around 15:30 is particularly insightful, where he talks about how League of Legends is a team game validated through individual skill. I think this is a perfect way to describe the problem, and it's clearly something that's missing from Riot's decisionmaking on this issue. I also still find it hilarious how Riot was like "we want to reward competitive teamplay!" then felt it was a good decision to remove Ranked 5s for the most competitive players in the game. His thoughts on the roundtable are pretty close to mine, as well. The fact they constantly quote data they aren't willing to share is insane, they are trying to support their choices by just...attempting to convince the community they are right. --- I am honestly flabbergasted at Riot's decisionmaking with all of these changes. What Riot is doing doesn't make any sense if they just look slightly beyond their metrics, and it's the first time where I've truly felt Riot's social design teams have completely and entirely lost touch with what people actually want out of League of Legends.
SouL1ess (NA)
: I think right now the death recap only takes into account the most recent 3 sources of damage taken from the most recent 3 champions/other assists. Other sources of damage are not accounted for during the percentage damage calculations. AKA it is, in fact, completely useless. And Riot isn't gonna do a thing about it.
> [{quoted}](name=SouL1ess,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=mkcWtAhf,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2016-06-11T06:01:07.356+0000) > > I think right now the death recap only takes into account the most recent 3 sources of damage taken from the most recent 3 champions/other assists. Other sources of damage are not accounted for during the percentage damage calculations. > > AKA it is, in fact, completely useless. > > And Riot isn&#x27;t gonna do a thing about it. Meanwhile as I take 3k true damage from Jinx's autoattacks, according to Death Recap.
: > [{quoted}](name=Daen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NyljljA9,comment-id=0008,timestamp=2016-06-06T01:32:54.184+0000) > > Not sure if you were the OP there, but this is literally copypasted directly from reddit. As with that thread, the math here makes a lot of assumptions that have no statistical basis or are overly simplistic. Consider the following: > > The key to acknowledge here is that many players don&#x27;t just queue via one method. I queue as both solo and premade in Ranked Draft, and yet my opinions remain the same. > > If I were to use the four qualities mentioned in the thread, I would say that my optimal order is Fairness &gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt;&gt; Agency &gt; Toxicity &gt; Teamwork. I feel that a fair rating system is the absolute most important possible thing for ranked play, and that all other variables are handled under Fairness at some point. All that is important is that differences exist between the sets of criteria for slicing with respect to solos or groups for the average. I don't think that a single criteria exists which optimizes for both solos and groups. The differences between those optimized for dynamic queue versus solo queue, whatever they are, big or small, create tension in the system.
> [{quoted}](name=Critkeeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NyljljA9,comment-id=00080000,timestamp=2016-06-06T07:24:42.075+0000) > > All that is important is that differences exist between the sets of criteria for slicing with respect to solos or groups for the average. > > I don&#x27;t think that a single criteria exists which optimizes for both solos and groups. The differences between those optimized for dynamic queue versus solo queue, whatever they are, big or small, create tension in the system. I would argue that optimizing for both solos and groups isn't necessarily the whole puzzle. There is something to said for maintaining competitive integrity despite the fact there are people that prefer an easier or less specialized system, and a great example of this concept is Old School RuneScape. In OSRS every change is polled, and unless the change reaches a supermajority of 75% in favor it doesn't get pushed to the live game. That being said, Jagex has on occasion decided to override the popular vote in favor of game integrity. A specific example of this is with something called 6 hour AFKing. For quite a while, at least a year, it was possible to start attacking a mob with a specific setup such that you'd never kill it and could literally go to sleep while your character trains free stats. Jagex polled the removal of this "feature" and it failed, but they decided to remove it anyway because it affects the integrity of the game as a whole from the perspectives of leaderboards and general atmosphere. This is a very close parallel to Dynamic Queue, in the sense that it's something where the integrity of ranked play has to be taken into account **despite** popular opinion. I'm not necessarily saying Dynamic Queue threatens the integrity of League of Legends, but it is *absolutely* a factor when considering a change that is this core to the competitive experience.
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Daen

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