Engelin (NA)
: It's 42 degrees and raining in Nebraska in december
A lot of people in here are referencing climate change, and while I'm definitely not a climate change denier, we all must remember that weather =/= climate. An unusually warm winter is in your area is not evidence, or even the effect, of climate change. This is a fallacious argument also used by legitimate climate change deniers when we have an unusually cold winter like we did a few years back. tl;dr - Stop conflating weather and climate.
: Diamond+ already got SoloQ
Honestly, players below diamond aren't really good enough for it to matter nearly as much. A Diamond+ dynamic queue group will coordinate so much more effectively than a lower elo group and it could make the game almost unwinnable for the enemy. Players who are plat and below honestly aren't that good so it wouldn't make nearly as much of a difference. tl;dr - If you're plat or below you aren't being held down because of dynamic queue. Friends wanting to play together at these lower elos is far more important than the threat to competitive integrity when those noobs group up. Noobs are still noobs even with theres 3+ of them in a group. Diamond+ players aren't noobs and when they group they work far more effectively to shut out games.
: is league a game, or a system to you? one of those, is designed to control things, and we are not "things to be controlled". we are humans. With the free will to associate whatever feelings we want to whatever order of letters we want. Untill someone can prove that "gg ez", has never and will never stand for "good game excessively zesty", in every single players mind; i cant see the justification for being triggered by it. If u get triggered by your assumption then enjoy your feelings, ive got games to play. to all who would say we have to take into account that GunShyClumsyVeteran's feelings, why are thier feelings more important than mine? i was raised,on an island (St.Thomas), and were a nice people, but if riot was based out of St.Thomas, this wouldn't even be an issue. the states are soft.
> [{quoted}](name=Ireliavence,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=0016000800000002,timestamp=2016-08-22T23:47:46.369+0000) > > is league a game, or a system to you? > > one of those, is designed to control things, and we are not "things to be controlled". > > we are humans. With the free will to associate whatever feelings we want to whatever order of letters we want. > Untill someone can prove that "gg ez", has never and will never stand for "good game excessively zesty", in every single players mind; i cant see the justification for being triggered by it. If u get triggered by your assumption then enjoy your feelings, ive got games to play. > > to all who would say we have to take into account that GunShyClumsyVeteran's feelings, why are thier feelings more important than mine? i was raised,on an island (St.Thomas), and were a nice people, but if riot was based out of St.Thomas, this wouldn't even be an issue. > > the states are soft. Replying and upvoting because "good game excessively zesty" gave me a good chuckle lol. Very true though, it does come down to how people interpret the message, at least in this case. There's a great quote and I can't remember where it's from but it basically goes, "Offense is never given, it is only taken." It's something similar to that at least, but you get the point.
Ypherion (NA)
: This is kiiiiind of how the current automatic player behavior systems work. They're a bit more sophisticated than player submission and counting, but it's the same general idea. Overall, players determine what's punishable.
> [{quoted}](name=Ypherion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=0016000e0000,timestamp=2016-08-22T22:54:48.275+0000) > > This is kiiiiind of how the current automatic player behavior systems work. They're a bit more sophisticated than player submission and counting, but it's the same general idea. Overall, players determine what's punishable. This kind of answers part of my wall of text I just finished typing lol. However, it's kind of scary in my opinion to essentially just let mob rule decide what is deemed acceptable. Especially with how trigger happy players are with the report button these days. I would hope there's significant oversight to ensure the system doesn't swing too far in one direction.
Ypherion (NA)
: First off, I'd be really sad if players were in fear of posting opinions on the boards. Preferably respectfully as you're doing. Certainly not going to be talking about banning or anything for this stuff. > words can't hurt you I know we're mostly talking about lighter stuff, but I have an instinctive reaction to this. Physically, words can't hurt you, but defining "hurt" so narrowly seems wrong to me. Words and ideas can do a great deal of damage, and are highly context dependent. > Have you ever watched an NFL game? To be honest, not many...tragic cost of being Canadian, but my Grandpa (American) used to complain that hockey was so violent, why can't they be more like the NFL so...\*shrug\* no idea. However, despite my press conference example, I don't think it's particularly useful to compare trash talk from professional leagues to that seen in lower levels of play. There's a lot of trash talk that happens in professional LoL, though thankfully most of it is kept on the topic of League rather than family etc. That type of trash talk has context way beyond the one statement. The same words from yee old random Ranked player lack any context, and that makes a large difference. IRL people have a great deal of control over who they play with, the culture around it etc. The cost of that is often scheduled play, travel etc. In League everyone is mostly all together. We need to create a culture where the greatest number of players can enjoy their experience (note I didn't say "have fun", because there are contexts where that's not realistic). For players who don't enjoy significant trash talk, trash talk can ruin the experience. For players who enjoy the banter, it's just less fun, hopefully not ruined. I'd be concerned about players who play only for the trash talk...I doubt they'd be satisfied staying within reasonable bounds. > As for your "safe" trash talk, with all due respect, I think your version of trash talk belongs in pee wee football leagues To some degree, this is fair. My examples are very tame. That said, consider that many players are in the early to mid teens. Every organized sport I was a part of at that age heavily emphasized the difference between acceptable banter and unsportsmanlike conduct. If we behaved like junior or pro hockey players we would have gotten wrecked by coaches, refs, parents etc. As a side note "I'm going to crush you" came from a much more serious context than you seem to assume, and was genuinely terrifying, but point taken. > I'm a huge advocate for free speech in every arena Hesitant to even dig into this due to how deep the issue can run, but I'll say a bit. I don't want to censor players, except for certain extremes, well beyond the nuances we're talking about, where we as a company feel like we need to make a stand. For the most part players should say what they want, and then deal with the consequences. Freedom of speech to me is the right to send messages I wish to, by voice, text, interpretive dance, whatever. It does not provide protection from the consequences of said speech, especially in cases that do not involve government oversight. If I go to a busy sandwich shop (I'm hungry..) and start a loud rant filled with hate speech, threats and other content deemed unacceptable by the community in and around that shop, I'm not going to get out without consequences. They could be that I'm simply judged by everyone present, I could be told to leave, perhaps I caused people to fear for their safety so they call the cops and I'm arrested. It's unlikely that handing out ear plugs (everybody muting me) would be a satisfactory resolution. Yes, that's hyperbole, please don't take it literally... In League, we want to offer tools for players to act when the speech of others offends them. Players rarely see each other twice, so the default IRL social consequences are absent. Asking a player to leave is not tenable due to the nature of the game. Reporting is kind of the equivalent of calling the police, though much, much less severe and thus used for less severe behavior. If your point is that speech should not have consequences, we just have a fundamental disagreement. Historically this has not been true, and there have always been social consequences to speech. Though what speech was unacceptable has changed DRAMATICALLY. Can you imagine the reaction if half of our commercials (sex sells!) were shown to a "normal" person from the early to mid 1800's. They'd think we were depraved. Muting alone is not enough, and probably never will be. Since there's no negative feedback to the person who is being seen as offensive, they keep going. Why would they change? Over time that means the percentage of chat that is "offensive" only goes up. The people who are offended leave, and over time the culture shifts. We don't want to punish people for every little thing. We don't want to nanny players. We want players to be able to provide meaningful negative feedback to those they find are impacting their game to offset the absence of the traditional, implicit systems that exist IRL. We want players to have a strong say in their culture.
> [{quoted}](name=Ypherion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=00160008000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-22T22:46:38.186+0000) > > First off, I'd be really sad if players were in fear of posting opinions on the boards. Preferably respectfully as you're doing. Certainly not going to be talking about banning or anything for this stuff. > > I know we're mostly talking about lighter stuff, but I have an instinctive reaction to this. Physically, words can't hurt you, but defining "hurt" so narrowly seems wrong to me. Words and ideas can do a great deal of damage, and are highly context dependent. > > To be honest, not many...tragic cost of being Canadian, but my Grandpa (American) used to complain that hockey was so violent, why can't they be more like the NFL so...\*shrug\* no idea. However, despite my press conference example, I don't think it's particularly useful to compare trash talk from professional leagues to that seen in lower levels of play. There's a lot of trash talk that happens in professional LoL, though thankfully most of it is kept on the topic of League rather than family etc. That type of trash talk has context way beyond the one statement. The same words from yee old random Ranked player lack any context, and that makes a large difference. > > IRL people have a great deal of control over who they play with, the culture around it etc. The cost of that is often scheduled play, travel etc. In League everyone is mostly all together. We need to create a culture where the greatest number of players can enjoy their experience (note I didn't say "have fun", because there are contexts where that's not realistic). For players who don't enjoy significant trash talk, trash talk can ruin the experience. For players who enjoy the banter, it's just less fun, hopefully not ruined. I'd be concerned about players who play only for the trash talk...I doubt they'd be satisfied staying within reasonable bounds. > > To some degree, this is fair. My examples are very tame. That said, consider that many players are in the early to mid teens. Every organized sport I was a part of at that age heavily emphasized the difference between acceptable banter and unsportsmanlike conduct. If we behaved like junior or pro hockey players we would have gotten wrecked by coaches, refs, parents etc. > > As a side note "I'm going to crush you" came from a much more serious context than you seem to assume, and was genuinely terrifying, but point taken. > > Hesitant to even dig into this due to how deep the issue can run, but I'll say a bit. I don't want to censor players, except for certain extremes, well beyond the nuances we're talking about, where we as a company feel like we need to make a stand. For the most part players should say what they want, and then deal with the consequences. > > Freedom of speech to me is the right to send messages I wish to, by voice, text, interpretive dance, whatever. It does not provide protection from the consequences of said speech, especially in cases that do not involve government oversight. If I go to a busy sandwich shop (I'm hungry..) and start a loud rant filled with hate speech, threats and other content deemed unacceptable by the community in and around that shop, I'm not going to get out without consequences. They could be that I'm simply judged by everyone present, I could be told to leave, perhaps I caused people to fear for their safety so they call the cops and I'm arrested. It's unlikely that handing out ear plugs (everybody muting me) would be a satisfactory resolution. Yes, that's hyperbole, please don't take it literally... > > In League, we want to offer tools for players to act when the speech of others offends them. Players rarely see each other twice, so the default IRL social consequences are absent. Asking a player to leave is not tenable due to the nature of the game. Reporting is kind of the equivalent of calling the police, though much, much less severe and thus used for less severe behavior. > > If your point is that speech should not have consequences, we just have a fundamental disagreement. Historically this has not been true, and there have always been social consequences to speech. Though what speech was unacceptable has changed DRAMATICALLY. Can you imagine the reaction if half of our commercials (sex sells!) were shown to a "normal" person from the early to mid 1800's. They'd think we were depraved. > > Muting alone is not enough, and probably never will be. Since there's no negative feedback to the person who is being seen as offensive, they keep going. Why would they change? Over time that means the percentage of chat that is "offensive" only goes up. The people who are offended leave, and over time the culture shifts. We don't want to punish people for every little thing. We don't want to nanny players. We want players to be able to provide meaningful negative feedback to those they find are impacting their game to offset the absence of the traditional, implicit systems that exist IRL. We want players to have a strong say in their culture. I mostly just want to touch on the last part here. When talking about consequences for speech and how it relates to free speech, I observe your right as a company to censor whatever you want, because you're not the government. Also, I agree that speech and behavior should obviously have social consequences even if there are no legal consequences, but in this context social consequences would be coming from your peers and not the establishment. In this scenario, Riot Games is the establishment, you're basically the government of the league community. Receiving punishment from you would be the equivalent of receiving punishment from the goverment in real life. For instance, a permanent ban in league is basically the video game version of life in prison. I think most people who the system deems as "toxic" are fully capable of accepting social consequences for their speech. Things like retaliation from other parties involved, being muted or being excluded from a group. These are what I think of when I hear "social" consequences. A punishment coming from those in power, the establishment or government of league, is not what comes to mind. Your comment about reporting being equivalent to calling the cops in real life is actually quite an apt comparison. Saying some mean words to a stranger in real life won't get the cops called on me because in real life people don't crumble under the weight of a nasty comment. Somehow on the internet the opposite is true, people can't give up their right to be an asshole quickly enough if it keeps them safe from words on a screen. Again, I think everyone should have the right to be an asshole, and of course I have the right to mute them or not associate with them ever again which would be the social consequence of their actions. I would never call the cops on them though, until they do something severe of course. "Muting alone is not enough, and probably never will be. Since there's no negative feedback to the person who is being seen as offensive, they keep going. Why would they change?" My question is, why should they change? If the mute feature acts as a wall between the player who is easily offended and the offending player, why does the offending player need to change? I think the easily offended player could deal with some thicker skin, but I'd never force them to change. If they want to give power to words on a screen then by all means they can get offended and immediately mute anyone who says anything negative to them. I believe words can only have power when you give them power, they can only hurt you when you let them. However, when you have this built in wall to keep those words out then even the easily offended can take the power back with one click of a button. Also as you hinted, what's seen as "offensive" is highly subjective and I guarantee you that you can find someone who is offended by anything, even your safe trash talk from earlier. At this point, who becomes the soul arbiter of what is and is not offensive? What's the upper limit of offended players that you're willing to live with? Set the bar too low and everyone is in danger of being banned, set the bar too high and it's the wild west you're so afraid of where everyone can say anything. How do you find out where to draw the line with the ever changing culture. Will the line ever need to be moved? Could "GG EZ" be too offensive now but totally okay later down the line when new trend develops that's perceived as being worse? On a related topic, and one that ties in nicely with the sandwich shop analogy, the issue of trolling seems to be a much more important one in my mind but it feels as though Riot cares less about it than the "toxicity" which can be almost entirely solved with the mute feature. Unfortunately, there's no mute feature to stop intentional feeders, trolls, or afkers from ruining games but it never gets the same spotlight that nasty words and unsportsmanlike conduct does. Back to the sandwich shop, I see toxicity the same way you do in your analogy, someone yelling mean things in a shop and being asked to leave. I don't think threats or hate speech are covered in this situation as I'm not arguing for that to be allowed in league, by all means ban those people who threaten others or spew bigoted hate speech. However, the trolls, feeders, and afkers who ruins games are basically the equivalent of a maniac coming into the sandwich shop and bashing the place up with a baseball bat. It's on a whole different level from toxicity in terms of the damage it causes to the game but as I said it seems that it doesn't get the spotlight as much. I'd like to know from your point as a Rioter, do you think it's easier to be banned for overly toxic chat messages or intentional feeding and ruining games?
Ypherion (NA)
: I'm not too worried about, in this context, censorship. With only rare exceptions, we only take action on behaviors determined by large numbers of players. I also think we have very different opinions about where the lines for sportsmanship are. I'll agree that, compared to a lot of what I've seen in League, "gg ez" isn't that severe. However, without some level of social connection, it has no purpose except to elevate the speaker and denigrate the listener. Acceptable trash talk not withstanding, I don't see why this would be a behavior we (we as a player, not just Riot) would want or accept in League. Now, with trash talk there's a few things that I often see omitted when it's called out: * Most of the sports you're talking about are initially learned in school or with a league of some kind. In these cases behavior is observed and corrected by a teacher, a parent, a coach or similar. Players learn early where the boundaries are. League doesn't have the benefit of this assumed baseline. How many players started playing League under supervision and got feedback on their behavior? * Each competitive game ultimately determines it's own tolerance of trash talk. Hockey (I'm Canadian) has a boat load of trash talk during the game, but that doesn't stop them from having, and using, a rule that severely punishes unsportsmanlike conduct. Also, trash talk happens almost exclusively during play or outside the game asynchronously (i.e. trash talk someone during a press conference). Rarely if ever is it at the beginning or end of the game. I don't know of any sport where it is acceptable, upon winning, to walk over to the opponents and tell them it was an easy win. If you look at other sports, especially globally, the degree of trash talk that is acceptable is much much lower. Look at badminton, tennis etc. And then as we go to games, take a look at what is ok in competitive board games. Not a lot. League has it's own version of trash talk that I think is perfectly fine. If someone flashes their champ mastery emote after killing me, or outplaying me, that has some effect on me but it's totally within reason. If an enemy mid laner sends out a quick "nice flash" after I try to make a flash play and come up short, totally fine. An "I'm going to fucking crush you" as laning starts...all good. Anything targeted at the player themselves or broadly generalizes their abilities, is beyond the line for me. "you fucking suck" (they, the person are being attacked) or "you should uninstall" (they, the League player are being attacked) don't have a place in the game I'd like to play. Do they make me alt-f4 and cry? Hell no. Would I be happier if I didn't have to deal with it? Hell yes. This is not a question of is a behavior survivable, or can players push through it. The question is whether the behavior is a net positive for the game as a whole once you look at how it makes every player in the game feel/behave. A lot of trash talk is within the realm of being net positive. Some of it, like "gg ez" or "uninstall fucker", are not positive and should be treated as something to be removed from our community.
> [{quoted}](name=Ypherion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=001600080000,timestamp=2016-08-22T20:31:01.849+0000) > > I'm not too worried about, in this context, censorship. With only rare exceptions, we only take action on behaviors determined by large numbers of players. I also think we have very different opinions about where the lines for sportsmanship are. > > I'll agree that, compared to a lot of what I've seen in League, "gg ez" isn't that severe. However, without some level of social connection, it has no purpose except to elevate the speaker and denigrate the listener. Acceptable trash talk not withstanding, I don't see why this would be a behavior we (we as a player, not just Riot) would want or accept in League. > > Now, with trash talk there's a few things that I often see omitted when it's called out: > * Most of the sports you're talking about are initially learned in school or with a league of some kind. In these cases behavior is observed and corrected by a teacher, a parent, a coach or similar. Players learn early where the boundaries are. League doesn't have the benefit of this assumed baseline. How many players started playing League under supervision and got feedback on their behavior? > * Each competitive game ultimately determines it's own tolerance of trash talk. Hockey (I'm Canadian) has a boat load of trash talk during the game, but that doesn't stop them from having, and using, a rule that severely punishes unsportsmanlike conduct. Also, trash talk happens almost exclusively during play or outside the game asynchronously (i.e. trash talk someone during a press conference). Rarely if ever is it at the beginning or end of the game. I don't know of any sport where it is acceptable, upon winning, to walk over to the opponents and tell them it was an easy win. If you look at other sports, especially globally, the degree of trash talk that is acceptable is much much lower. Look at badminton, tennis etc. And then as we go to games, take a look at what is ok in competitive board games. Not a lot. > > League has it's own version of trash talk that I think is perfectly fine. If someone flashes their champ mastery emote after killing me, or outplaying me, that has some effect on me but it's totally within reason. If an enemy mid laner sends out a quick "nice flash" after I try to make a flash play and come up short, totally fine. An "I'm going to fucking crush you" as laning starts...all good. > > Anything targeted at the player themselves or broadly generalizes their abilities, is beyond the line for me. "you fucking suck" (they, the person are being attacked) or "you should uninstall" (they, the League player are being attacked) don't have a place in the game I'd like to play. Do they make me alt-f4 and cry? Hell no. Would I be happier if I didn't have to deal with it? Hell yes. > > This is not a question of is a behavior survivable, or can players push through it. The question is whether the behavior is a net positive for the game as a whole once you look at how it makes every player in the game feel/behave. A lot of trash talk is within the realm of being net positive. Some of it, like "gg ez" or "uninstall fucker", are not positive and should be treated as something to be removed from our community. On the point of trash talk in other games being limited to press conferences, I beg to differ. Have you ever watched an NFL game? The players get in each others faces and talk shit to each other all the time on the field. In fact, sometimes the confrontation comes to violence which is basically the only time the refs will actually step in and lay out some type of punishment. The random scuffles and chest beating that happens generally goes unaddressed by the officials, this would basically be the equivalent of someone calling the other team noobs in league. Thankfully League of Legends has an environment where no real harm can be done because physical violence isn't an option and words can't hurt you. As for your "safe" trash talk, with all due respect, I think your version of trash talk belongs in pee wee football leagues. "I'm gonna crush you" sounds like something an 8 year old says trying to sound tough. Someone saying "You suck" shouldn't be considered "over the line" unless your line is miles away from the average person's line for reasonable trash talk in a competitive environment. I'm a huge advocate for free speech in every arena, whether it be in the legal arena being protected from the government, or in an online arena like social media or here in gaming. I see the loss of freedom of speech and expression as a huge negative which I don't think you've factored into your "net positive" calculation. This calculation gets even easier for me when you factor in the mute feature that anyone has readily available with literally two inputs from their keyboard/mouse. It's the simplest and most effective fix for this entire situation. People get to say what they want and express their opinions and ideas, and people who are offended by those ideas can quickly and easily remove them from their gaming experience. Everybody wins, at least that's the way I see it. I feel like this generation somehow became the most easily offended. The group of people most easily crippled by words. You'd think it would've been the opposite because we all grew up with the internet lol. I don't think adults need safe spaces or carebear zones. We don't need padded walls, kids gloves or training wheels. We just need to grow up. P.S. - I hope this conversation doesn't get me banned lol. Another problem with over policing is a lot of your playerbase starts to live in fear of stepping just an inch or two over the incredibly precariously placed "line."
: BIGGEST ISSUE WITH THE LEAGUE COMMUNITY
People like you need to be banned. Seriously, Riot should see this post and if they care AT ALL about the competitive environment of their game then you should be banned. This is a team game that people play to win, it's your obligation to play seriously and to your best ability every game. Anything else is bannable and it should be. If you're trolling with 4 other friends in a premade 5 then go for it, you're not ruining anyone's game because you're all in on it. However, if you do this with random people you get matched with in matchmaking then, like I said, you should be banned.
Ypherion (NA)
: We've talked about this kind of thing internally several times over the past couple years. Some of the discussions about what to use as replacement messages are among of my favorite memories at Riot (some of us are kind of terrible people...creative, but terrible). The main reason we haven't gotten to it, aside from having other stuff we thought was more urgent, is that it tends to create a bit of an arms race. Once people figure out what the filters are, they adapt their messages. GG3Z, ky$ or just come up with entirely new stuff like "GG stomp" or something, which then becomes GGST etc. etc. Then the filters need to be updated, then players adapt, repeat ad nauseum. There's also an interesting question around how players will perceive the replacement messages once the mapping from input to replacement is well known. I have no doubt that it will help to a decent degree, and I'll be interested to see how it works out. I love that other games are experimenting in this space more and more. It'll only speed up development on awesome ways to deal with this kind of behavior.
> [{quoted}](name=Ypherion,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WuiG5a1Y,comment-id=0016,timestamp=2016-08-22T17:32:15.217+0000) > > We've talked about this kind of thing internally several times over the past couple years. Some of the discussions about what to use as replacement messages are among of my favorite memories at Riot (some of us are kind of terrible people...creative, but terrible). > > The main reason we haven't gotten to it, aside from having other stuff we thought was more urgent, is that it tends to create a bit of an arms race. Once people figure out what the filters are, they adapt their messages. GG3Z, ky$ or just come up with entirely new stuff like "GG stomp" or something, which then becomes GGST etc. etc. Then the filters need to be updated, then players adapt, repeat ad nauseum. There's also an interesting question around how players will perceive the replacement messages once the mapping from input to replacement is well known. > > I have no doubt that it will help to a decent degree, and I'll be interested to see how it works out. I love that other games are experimenting in this space more and more. It'll only speed up development on awesome ways to deal with this kind of behavior. There's also the problem of standing up for free speech, at least to a reasonable extent. I understand that as a private company you can punish anything you want and the first amendment in America doesn't matter, but do you really want to be known as an authoritarian anti free speech company? If players need to be protected from something as innocuous as "GG EZ" then we've reached a point where coddling them isn't going to help. Especially when there's an incredibly effective way for easily offended players to block/mute people who say something they don't like. By no means am I defending players who cross the line with death threats or anything like that. That's legitimately breaking the law and it should be punished. However, "GG EZ" and other similar trash talk, which is a part of every competitive game in the world by the way, should not be a major concern for anyone. At some point it has to be on the easily offended to either grow a thicker skin or use the mute feature provided by you hard working people at Riot for this exact purpose. Remember everyone, sticks and stones may break your bones, but words can never hurt you. Everyone should've learned this simple fact from their mothers when they were kids.
: GP Barrel damage & lack of counterplay
GP barrels have no counterplay? It's pretty simple, and an incredibly well designed mechanic in my opinion (kudos riot), you just auto attack the barrel before he can. It all comes down to timing and it's a perfect and fair mechanical duel between players. The faster, better player will always win. Have you ever tried playing GP against a Diamond+ player who actually knows how to counterplay barrels? It's pretty annoying tbh. The most annoying thing in the game as GP is playing against someone who's better at timing the barrel attacks than you are because then you have to resort to only ever hitting people with triple barrels from out of range, which eats up EVERY barrel charge and is mechanically tough to pull off consistently. tl;dr - Riot did a fantastic job with the GP rework and they made him a strong champ with great counterplay in the form of a fun barrel mini-game. Riot gave you a way to counterplay him, stop crying just because you suck at it.
: Really? CDR boots is what bothers you? Not building IE AND essence reaver? lol xD
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfJIEgVB,comment-id=001800000000,timestamp=2016-08-17T17:11:03.701+0000) > > Really? CDR boots is what bothers you? Not building IE AND essence reaver? lol xD Well yea I hate essence reaver builds on GP entirely tbh, but I was just pointing out the more blatant and easily understandable offense lol. If he doesn't understand there's a CDR cap and he's getting literally nothing from his choice of boots then he's not gonna understand more complex build choices lol.
: I get this all the time since I get placed in matches way above my mmr I just get flamed for my opinion. "You're Bronze 1 LOL" Like dude i'm playing with you and you are in gold 2 that should say something.
> [{quoted}](name=A Lucent Echo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfJIEgVB,comment-id=0018,timestamp=2016-08-17T16:55:12.048+0000) > > I get this all the time since I get placed in matches way above my mmr I just get flamed for my opinion. "You're Bronze 1 LOL" Like dude i'm playing with you and you are in gold 2 that should say something. I just want to take a second to say that I looked at your match history and as a gangplank main I find it disturbing. You played a game of gangplank in ranked a month ago and built essence reaver, triforce, IE, lucidity boots, and some other junk that isn't important. You realize you went miles over the CDR cap right? Why did you have the lucidity boots when you would've been CDR capped without them? This is the type of thing a bronze player does that a diamond wouldn't. Do you understand why some people may not trust your game knowledge?
: Just because someone is in a low rank doesn't mean they're automatically wrong or inqualified.
> [{quoted}](name=JamesTheMage17,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EfJIEgVB,comment-id=,timestamp=2016-08-17T14:10:22.386+0000) > > Don't just people based off rank, it's just sad. Every time I make a post that uses some kind of opinion, I get down voted to hell and get multiple hate-comments because I'm in bronze II. > Who has more experience: A player for two years in bronze I > Or a player for one year in gold I > > Go ahead and argue all you want but it's obviously the bronze guy. > > So when someone of a low rank disagrees with you and that's all you can say to them, ("you're bronze so you're wrong", etc) that's truly sad on your part. As a general rule, game knowledge increases with rank. This trend is observable and a fact of reality. There are exceptions to every rule of course, but you'd be hard pressed to find a single person in bronze who knows the game better than someone in diamond or above. It would literally be one in a million. This is why it's safe to assume that if someone is a higher rank than you, they will know more about the game on a deeper level. As for the argument that you can know the game really well, but be stuck in bronze because of your mechanics, I call bullshit. There are literally disabled players who don't have hands to play with that make it to gold+, which isn't even much of an accomplishment btw. The mechanics of all players in bronze/silver are complete garbage so the only thing that matters when it comes to carrying yourself out is game knowledge. You need to make the correct decisions in every situation and know how to turn small advantages into big snowballing leads to carry. Also, there are diamond players with shit mechanics, probably gold-ish level, who still get to diamond just because of their incredible game knowledge and decision making. So tl;dr if you're bronze and you have an opinion about game balance or something like that, you're probably wrong and it's perfectly legitimate for a diamond player to pull rank on you. To be honest, higher elo players should explain to you WHY you're wrong rather than just dismiss you based on rank, but something tells me that you'd probably just disagree and say something like "well that's like....your opinion man." Higher ranked players know the game better than you, stop arguing with them. Edit: Oh also, time spent playing the game doesn't mean shit. Someone can learn more about the game and become better than you in a single year of playing, even if you've played for six years yourself. There are plenty of bronzies who have played since release, and plenty of people who hit diamond their first season playing.
Paroe (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Seenan,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6bGcIlnp,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2016-08-15T15:32:18.429+0000) > > Just to clarify, it's untargettability, not invincibility. But I do agree. Fizz cant be damaged by AoEs. So it is invulnerability. if it were untargetablity then AoEs would still work.
> [{quoted}](name=Paroe,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=6bGcIlnp,comment-id=000000010000,timestamp=2016-08-15T15:49:29.537+0000) > > Fizz cant be damaged by AoEs. So it is invulnerability. if it were untargetablity then AoEs would still work. It's not invulnerability because fizz can still take damage and die from DoTs on him while in troll pole. Invulnerability would mean he couldn't take damage from any source. In this instance untargetable just means he can't be hit by any spells, including AoEs, for the duration of the ability. It doesn't only apply to point and click targetable abilities even though that's what it sounds like. So yes he's technically untargetable, not invulnerable.
Kiokami (NA)
: "ur lower rank so everything you say is invalid"
If you're tired of being told this, then get higher rank than silver. If you're diamond you basically never run into anyone higher rank than you since it's top 2% of the playerbase. So if you're so good that you can tell people higher rank than you how to play, why don't you just rank up yourself? If you're not good enough to rank up past silver then I'm sorry but people above you really don't need to listen to you because they already know everything you do and more. If they didn't, they'd still be stuck down there with you. And yes, I know this is very elitist but if you don't want to be talked down to by the elites then you have to put in the work to become one.
UniVibe (NA)
: Rofl I didn't notice she was a girl. No wonder all these pizza face pre pubers are asking her to add them.
> [{quoted}](name=DrunkOnEgo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=9kETQJbZ,comment-id=000800000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-08-02T21:25:18.462+0000) > > Rofl I didn't notice she was a girl. No wonder all these pizza face pre pubers are asking her to add them. Yea there's definitely a little white knighting happening in this thread. Any other thread crying about mean people on the internet would've been downvoted into oblivion I'm sure lol.
Sahn Uzal (EUW)
: When someone says ''Jif'' instead of ''Gif''
Here is the end all, be all proof that gif is pronounced with a hard "G" sound. http://howtoreallypronouncegif.com/ You're welcome. Edit: Also the creator is an illiterate nerd and he's wrong. This is addressed on the site I linked <3.
: I Cried While Playing League
#1. There's a mute button for a reason and as soon as you found it, your flaming problems should have disappeared. I don't know how you missed it in the first place but after you realized you can mute people (like in every single online game ever) you should have been fine. #2. This isn't Disneyland, this is the internet. Some of what you experienced is absolutely reprehensible (and completely avoidable with the mute feature), but some of it is just standard online trash talk. No one is forcing you to play. As the saying goes, if you can't take the heat get out of the kitchen. #3. If you're crying because of random insults coming from strangers on the internet then you probably have some emotional issues you need to deal with. No sane, rational, emotionally stable person would be reduced to tears by words on a screen coming from a stranger that you've never met and never will meet. I'd recommend maybe taking a step back from this game and possibly the internet as a whole while you get some psychological help. This is a sincere request from someone who is concerned for your safety and the safety of those around you. Too many unstable people have preventable mental breakdowns that result in violence because they didn't seek help when they should have. Learn the warning signs.
: Renaiming leagues by skill level
Bronze: Garbage Silver: Garbage Gold: Slightly Less Garbage Platinum: Moderately Less Garbage Diamond: Top 2% God Tier Master: Even More God Tier Challenger: Godliest Tier Basically how every diamond+ player sees the ranks I'm gonna be honest.
: > [{quoted}](name=Darksyde,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T06:00:50.223+0000) > > Well like he said, only he can see it because it&#x27;s only affecting your client. The use of custom skins has been a part of the game since season 1, I remember screenshots of people running around as a vending machine version of singed. As far as I know, the use of these custom skins has never been bannable, and no one in the game can see them except you. Maybe this program is automatically detected by their anti cheat as malicious and that&#x27;s why the OP got banned. > > tl;dr - No it&#x27;s not getting the skin for free, it&#x27;s the same as using custom skins which were not bannable last time I checked although that may be different now. Custom skins are allowed, but you aren't allowed to use creations that riot has used. I mean just because you can see it doesn't mean its ok, many times people buy skins just for themselves because looking at normal udyr compared to his ultimate is much more appealing.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazFight,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T06:06:11.552+0000) > > Custom skins are allowed, but you aren&#x27;t allowed to use creations that riot has used. I mean just because you can see it doesn&#x27;t mean its ok, many times people buy skins just for themselves because looking at normal udyr compared to his ultimate is much more appealing. Do you have a source where Riot has ever confirmed that you can't use their "creations" as custom skins? What if someone made a skin that looks just like a Riot skin but only slightly different. Would that count? This seems kinda fishy and I feel like you just made it up because it makes sense to you. And yes if he's the only one who sees it then it does make it okay. That's the entire point of custom skins. No one else can see it so it doesn't affect the game for anyone else. You can make your character batman or darth vader (yes those are real skins that exist) and it's fine because no one else can see it.
: > [{quoted}](name=Horuseus,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T05:46:21.145+0000) > > Oh no, this programs lets you use the riot skins but only you can see it. so you mean you get the skin for free, without having to pay. WOW i wonder what the problem is.
> [{quoted}](name=CrazFight,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=YR59JudL,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-09T05:57:15.407+0000) > > so you mean you get the skin for free, without having to pay. WOW i wonder what the problem is. Well like he said, only he can see it because it's only affecting your client. The use of custom skins has been a part of the game since season 1, I remember screenshots of people running around as a vending machine version of singed. As far as I know, the use of these custom skins has never been bannable, and no one in the game can see them except you. Maybe this program is automatically detected by their anti cheat as malicious and that's why the OP got banned. tl;dr - No it's not getting the skin for free, it's the same as using custom skins which were not bannable last time I checked although that may be different now.
UnwardiI (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=BloodyTompon,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Riq4VFhe,comment-id=00010000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-08T01:44:06.835+0000) > > They&#x27;re not admitting that because it&#x27;s debatable. For instance, from the companies perspective you can see how this is not a bad decision if most people like it. I&#x27;m not saying it&#x27;s any less shit for the people who want SoloQ. It&#x27;s clearly a terrible decision from those peoples eyes. Can I tell you the single thing that would make me accept it? A little button when I queue up that says SOLO ONLY with a little check box. Clicking this box says "I do not want to be put in a group with ANY sets of premades and I am willing to wait however damn long it takes to make that happen". You give me that button and I will give you your Dynamic Queue. If everyone loves Dynamic Queue as much as Riot claims, that shouldn't be too much to ask.
> [{quoted}](name=UnwardiI,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Riq4VFhe,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-08T01:55:39.105+0000) > > Can I tell you the single thing that would make me accept it? > > A little button when I queue up that says SOLO ONLY with a little check box. Clicking this box says &quot;I do not want to be put in a group with ANY sets of premades and I am willing to wait however damn long it takes to make that happen&quot;. You give me that button and I will give you your Dynamic Queue. > > If everyone loves Dynamic Queue as much as Riot claims, that shouldn&#x27;t be too much to ask. Yea but the problem with that is then DQ queue times go up as well because there would be no solo players to match with groups of 4/3/2
Darksyde (NA)
: Daily reminder that Dynamic Queue is fine.
I expected this to ruffle some feathers. What happened to all the solo queue whiners? Is it past their bedtime?
Rioter Comments
: How comes communism =/= freedom? just because some dictatorship claimed to be communist? i know it's meme/games but the ignorance is beyond my tolerance lvl...
> [{quoted}](name=Rubick x Sona,realm=EUW,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=pfPYFlqg,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-07-04T15:25:40.803+0000) > > How comes communism =/= freedom? just because some dictatures claimed to be communist? > > i know it&#x27;s meme/games but the ignorance is beyond my tolerance lvl... I really hope you're trolling.
: I value you opinion, I don't take things personally My Reply from another comment: Hey dude, >As if boosting never existed in any season ever. News flash, people get boosted literally every season but it doesn't destroy the integrity of the season for the people who did it legit. There will always be cheaters scripters boosters etc. However no one complained for 6 years. Why are we complaining now? It's bwcuase before this season, boosting was never ENCOURAGED and REWARDED by RIOT. This season riot wants you to group with your friends for ranked. HOWEVER full teams will always beat solo players. Why are they in the same queue? I play the best when I'm 5v5 with my friends and comms. But when I play solo I would get crushed vs the same teams. Communication improves my gameplay a ton! So everyone is mad this season that solo and full five players have to face each other in the same system. It's not fair since solos will all be disadvantaged. Yes they can win, but it's the disadvantage were protesting. Solution: have 2 ranked queues. One for full 5, one for solo/duo (maybe trio ? ). Heroes of the Storm does this too
> [{quoted}](name=redfeenix,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=jUGUHOze,comment-id=000600000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-07-04T15:07:59.674+0000) > > I value you opinion, I don&#x27;t take things personally > > My Reply from another comment: > > Hey dude, > > There will always be cheaters scripters boosters etc. However no one complained for 6 years. Why are we complaining now? It&#x27;s bwcuase before this season, boosting was never ENCOURAGED and REWARDED by RIOT. This season riot wants you to group with your friends for ranked. > > HOWEVER full teams will always beat solo players. Why are they in the same queue? I play the best when I&#x27;m 5v5 with my friends and comms. But when I play solo I would get crushed vs the same teams. > > Communication improves my gameplay a ton! So everyone is mad this season that solo and full five players have to face each other in the same system. It&#x27;s not fair since solos will all be disadvantaged. Yes they can win, but it&#x27;s the disadvantage were protesting. > > Solution: have 2 ranked queues. One for full 5, one for solo only. Idk how many times we are gonna have to hear this same argument or how many times I'll have to bring up this one tiny little fact. With Riot's system it's nearly impossible to match up against a team of 5 as a team of solos. They match similar sized premades against each other like 90%+ of the time. This means that even if you're playing solo, if you're against a premade of 3 or 4, it means you almost certainly have that on your team as well. The advantage counters out because your premade will have all the advantages their premade has. It's very rare for you to get matched against a team with a premade without also having a premade on your team, and I can guarantee that is not what is keeping you down in rank. Focus on your own play and how you can improve. Edit: Also you could legally boost before because duo queue was a thing even in the old solo queue. It's not like boosting via duo queue is some new concept that only came with dynamic queue. The reason you're seeing so many people complaining now is because the mass hysteria on the boards finally has a big boogie man to point to even if it's a stupid argument. The bad people on the forums want to believe that they are being held down by something other than their own lack of skill.
: Please don't release ranked borders for this season
Funny that posts like this never actually come from diamond players. Why is it that a silver is complaining about how ranked means nothing this season and how "silvers are diamond this season." As if boosting never existed in any season ever. News flash, people get boosted literally every season but it doesn't destroy the integrity of the season for the people who did it legit. I mostly solo queued my way to diamond this season and yes I'm damn proud of it (even though I've done it twice before and at this point it's not too hard). Don't try to take away the accomplishments of others just because you're salty you're stuck in silver.
Darksyde (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:27:48.801+0000) > > I say again, it does not stop you from playing ranked, it only stops you from playing with friends, in ranked. > > You can&#x27;t seem to grasp the concept that, in a game with individual rating, you should be judged on your own merit and not alongside anyone else. If you&#x27;d rather play with friends, fine, do it, but ranked isn&#x27;t (or shouldn&#x27;t, in my opinion) be the place for it as it dilutes individual skill. > > Ranked should have a few restrictions to make sure everyone is playing at an even and fair level, anyway, isn&#x27;t that what a ranking system is for? comparing skill on a 1 to 1 basis? sure, it&#x27;s not perfect in a team game but that&#x27;s only greatly expanded by dynamic queue. > > You&#x27;re only parroting yourself when I provide a counter to what you&#x27;ve said, now, I&#x27;d appreciate if you came up with a new point or simply stopped repeating what you&#x27;ve already said. Dynamic queue doesn't hurt solo players nearly as much as you seem to think either. So while your argument is "well group players can just play solo," I can just as well say "solo players can just deal with groups in dynamic queue." Also, you seem to be obsessed with this individual skill and being judged on a "1 to 1" basis, but you admit that it doesn't even work that way in solo queue because this is a team game. In fact, the rating system known as ELO wasn't even designed for a team game, it was taken from chess. The entire solo queue system was fucked to begin with and it never accurately represented individual skill. However, it does limit players in a way that riot doesn't see as acceptable. As I said earlier, the enjoyment solo players get out of the game is not worth sacrificing the enjoyment group players get from the game, especially when solo players can still enjoy dynamic queue as many do. Dynamic queue is a compromise to make more players happy, solo queue is a demand that only one part of the community should be happy and the rest can go fuck off.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:49:46.580+0000) > > You&#x27;ve yet to provide a counterexample or a better solution, until you do, I am done discussing as it is unproductive. I have explained why dynamic queue is worse, as a whole, and will most likely lead to alot of dropped players or much, much longer queue times, not to mention why it isn&#x27;t good for ranked as a whole. > > You seem to also insist that group players are inheretly more important that solo players, as if we&#x27;re lesser people cause we don&#x27;t play with friends. > > I am done talking about this with you, as you aren&#x27;t providing anything helpful or useful. You haven't explained anything. If anything I've explained why dynamic queue is the best option for the most people. I've admitted it's not perfect and that it's a compromise designed to maximize enjoyment for the largest number of people. My argument in favor of dynamic queue is basically that it's better for MORE people than solo queue. Solo queue is better for some people, dynamic queue is better for MORE people. This is an argument you have yet to refute. I don't think group players are more important than solo players, or that solo players are more important than group players. However, I do know that dynamic queue is the only one that allows BOTH groups of players to play the game in a way that is acceptable and not restrictive. There are obviously solo players who are fine with dynamic queue. I don't mind playing dynamic queue solo, although as I said I prefer playing this game with friends in general, and many people share that opinion.
Kodyack (NA)
: I say again, it does not stop you from playing ranked, it only stops you from playing with friends, in ranked. You can't seem to grasp the concept that, in a game with individual rating, you should be judged on your own merit and not alongside anyone else. If you'd rather play with friends, fine, do it, but ranked isn't (or shouldn't, in my opinion) be the place for it as it dilutes individual skill. Ranked should have a few restrictions to make sure everyone is playing at an even and fair level, anyway, isn't that what a ranking system is for? comparing skill on a 1 to 1 basis? sure, it's not perfect in a team game but that's only greatly expanded by dynamic queue. You're only parroting yourself when I provide a counter to what you've said, now, I'd appreciate if you came up with a new point or simply stopped repeating what you've already said.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:27:48.801+0000) > > I say again, it does not stop you from playing ranked, it only stops you from playing with friends, in ranked. > > You can&#x27;t seem to grasp the concept that, in a game with individual rating, you should be judged on your own merit and not alongside anyone else. If you&#x27;d rather play with friends, fine, do it, but ranked isn&#x27;t (or shouldn&#x27;t, in my opinion) be the place for it as it dilutes individual skill. > > Ranked should have a few restrictions to make sure everyone is playing at an even and fair level, anyway, isn&#x27;t that what a ranking system is for? comparing skill on a 1 to 1 basis? sure, it&#x27;s not perfect in a team game but that&#x27;s only greatly expanded by dynamic queue. > > You&#x27;re only parroting yourself when I provide a counter to what you&#x27;ve said, now, I&#x27;d appreciate if you came up with a new point or simply stopped repeating what you&#x27;ve already said. Dynamic queue doesn't hurt solo players nearly as much as you seem to think either. So while your argument is "well group players can just play solo," I can just as well say "solo players can just deal with groups in dynamic queue." Also, you seem to be obsessed with this individual skill and being judged on a "1 to 1" basis, but you admit that it doesn't even work that way in solo queue because this is a team game. In fact, the rating system known as ELO wasn't even designed for a team game, it was taken from chess. The entire solo queue system was fucked to begin with and it never accurately represented individual skill. However, it does limit players in a way that riot doesn't see as acceptable. As I said earlier, the enjoyment solo players get out of the game is not worth sacrificing the enjoyment group players get from the game, especially when solo players can still enjoy dynamic queue as many do. Dynamic queue is a compromise to make more players happy, solo queue is a demand that only one part of the community should be happy and the rest can go fuck off.
Kodyack (NA)
: You didn't read the entirety of what I posted. go back and read them again, would you? besides, nobody is "excluded" from ranked in solo queue, they can still play it, just solo like everyone else. You know, on an even playing field, unlike with Dynamic queue. I suggested a fix for this, or at least a bandaid, yet I still maintain that SoloQ would be more fair than dynamic queue overall. Not to mention you never mentioned why normals aren't a fix if people want to play with friends; they still can, and they can still play ranked alone just like everyone else, if they don't want to, that's fine but it means they don't really care about ranked that much now do they?
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:15:33.137+0000) > > You didn&#x27;t read the entirety of what I posted. go back and read them again, would you? > > > besides, nobody is &quot;excluded&quot; from ranked in solo queue, they can still play it, just solo like everyone else. You know, on an even playing field, unlike with Dynamic queue. I suggested a fix for this, or at least a bandaid, yet I still maintain that SoloQ would be more fair than dynamic queue overall. > > > Not to mention you never mentioned why normals aren&#x27;t a fix if people want to play with friends; they still can, and they can still play ranked alone just like everyone else, if they don&#x27;t want to, that&#x27;s fine but it means they don&#x27;t really care about ranked that much now do they? There are players who only play this game with friends, I personally don't like to play by myself all that much. These players would be completely excluded from ranked if you created a strictly solo queue system. However, in the dynamic queue system, everyone can play it how they like. Solo players can play solo, and group players can play with whatever number of friends they want. The system matches players based on these factors as well, if you're playing as a group and you get matched against solo players, those solo players will be stronger individually because the system specifically matches you against harder people if you queue as a team. Solo queue is the only queue system that by definition restricts how you can play, dynamic queue gives you the option to play solo or with a group.
Kodyack (NA)
: Right so you have a toxic friend and somehow this refutes the entire argument because you pointed out one example of an exception to a rule? like I said, i suggested a fix, you've yet to do so. I've provided actually problems with the system, You've failed to refute them or provide issues with solo queue that ranked 5s and normals don't or couldn't fix.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:06:41.371+0000) > > Right so you have a toxic friend and somehow this refutes the entire argument because you pointed out one example of an exception to a rule? > > like I said, i suggested a fix, you&#x27;ve yet to do so. I&#x27;ve provided actually problems with the system, You&#x27;ve failed to refute them or provide issues with solo queue that ranked 5s and normals don&#x27;t or couldn&#x27;t fix. What fix do you have that doesn't ruin dynamic queue? I haven't seen you suggest anything. Solo queue certainly isn't a fix. Ranked 5s aren't a fix because then friends can't queue as groups of 2/3/4. Normals aren't a fix because an entire portion of the population, aka people who only play with friends, shouldn't be excluded from ranked. Like I said in one of my response posts, dynamic queue offers a decent compromise where everyone can play the game in a reasonable way. Dynamic queue isn't nearly as bad for solo players as the fearmongers on the forums would have you believe. However, if you create solo queue and kill dynamic queue then the game gets slightly better for solo players, but group players can't play ranked AT ALL. This makes dynamic queue inherently better for the entire population.
Kodyack (NA)
: well technically Riot is against any third party programs; but getting those people into comms, without knowing them in advance, is a good sign of teamwork as I see it actually, the problem is that not everyone will want to voice comm with a group of strangers, or might rage or might disagree and cause just as much issues as if they were typing. a group of people who know each other in advance mitigates this, and as such has an advantage in every situation, even against randoms who use voice comms. actually saw a post earlier; a guy asked to join a 4-man premades voice comms, and they trolled the hell out of him for it. Seriously. Anyway, I suggested a solution to this issue, namely give solo players a bit more credit for solo queueing, either through lp gains/loss changes or easier hextech or SOMETHING, instead of giving it all to premades; I've yet to see you suggest a fix besides "get friends or get out", to paraphrase.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T13:02:52.642+0000) > > well technically Riot is against any third party programs; but getting those people into comms, without knowing them in advance, is a good sign of teamwork as I see it actually, the problem is that not everyone will want to voice comm with a group of strangers, or might rage or might disagree and cause just as much issues as if they were typing. > > > a group of people who know each other in advance mitigates this, and as such has an advantage in every situation, even against randoms who use voice comms. > > actually saw a post earlier; a guy asked to join a 4-man premades voice comms, and they trolled the hell out of him for it. Seriously. If you think being in a premade group mitigates the risk of someone raging or disagreeing and fucking a game over then you are sorely mistaken my friend. I have a friend who refutes this argument by himself lol.
Kodyack (NA)
: This isn't the case all the time, however, and it's completely out of your control whether or not you are on a team with a premade or not; I saw a recent match of a 4+1 going against a duo and 3 solos, the duo and 3 solos got destroyed absolutely and completely before 20 minutes. This isn't in the players control, and that's the first problem. The second is that the solo player's skill, in this situation, is COMPLETELY inconsequential. It's now a premade Vs. premade fight, with two solos as wildcards that can tip the balance of two evenly matched teams, yet have no impact when one is clearly superior to the other, meaning that, unless the matchmaking has literally put clones against each other, the solo players don't have much of an impact, It's remarkably hard to solo-carry against a team that has voice comm, as they can call out a location and lock down any dangerous player. Point being, solo players, in situations like this, have no agency in the matter and only the premades do, so again, it's a bad thing and frustrating to deal with.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=0001000000000000,timestamp=2016-06-22T12:54:54.836+0000) > > This isn&#x27;t the case all the time, however, and it&#x27;s completely out of your control whether or not you are on a team with a premade or not; I saw a recent match of a 4+1 going against a duo and 3 solos, the duo and 3 solos got destroyed absolutely and completely before 20 minutes. > > This isn&#x27;t in the players control, and that&#x27;s the first problem. > > The second is that the solo player&#x27;s skill, in this situation, is COMPLETELY inconsequential. It&#x27;s now a premade Vs. premade fight, with two solos as wildcards that can tip the balance of two evenly matched teams, yet have no impact when one is clearly superior to the other, meaning that, unless the matchmaking has literally put clones against each other, the solo players don&#x27;t have much of an impact, It&#x27;s remarkably hard to solo-carry against a team that has voice comm, as they can call out a location and lock down any dangerous player. > > > Point being, solo players, in situations like this, have no agency in the matter and only the premades do, so again, it&#x27;s a bad thing and frustrating to deal with. So what happens if a team of all solos in solo queue joins up in voice comms before the game? Should this be bannable then? Is this something that riot has to protect against? This gives the same advantage of a premade team using voice comms against solo players in dynamic queue. Is your problem friends playing together as a premade or players using voice comms to coordinate in ranked? Because you can't stop both of these things.
: I really don't think riot, or dynamic queue players should be taking the attitude that player should either love DQ or leave. Honestly, if that's the case and the SQ players do leave, DQ fails anyway.
> [{quoted}](name=Y u b SO Mean,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2016-06-22T12:40:20.968+0000) > > I really don&#x27;t think riot, or dynamic queue players should be taking the attitude that player should either love DQ or leave. Honestly, if that&#x27;s the case and the SQ players do leave, DQ fails anyway. Yes DQ fails if all solo players leave, but they won't all leave and that's the point. When I said "if you don't like it, get some friends or just don't play," it was directed at the whiners who don't want to compromise and want everything to cater to them. We can get by without those players complaining all day, as long as the rest of the solo players who have some balls keep queueing.
Kodyack (NA)
: I won't bother with a lengthy explanation here, but individual skill still plays a huge role in "team" games you know. Think of a Soccer (football) team, for example; you have players who are CLEARLY more skilled and noticable than others, and that's why they get to the level that they do in terms of pay/recognition/praise etc. That doesn't mean it's not a "team" game; so, imagine if you took random players from random world-class teams, and put them against a fully prepared world-class team with all it's usual members. Chances are, the team that was a full team would win, in all cases, even a sub or two on a full team is a big deal most times. My point is that Solo skill matters, for one, and trying to conflate solo players with people who play as a team is a bad idea and will ruin the overall matchmaking style and give inaccurate skill ratings of each individual player.
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2016-06-22T12:38:49.143+0000) > > I won&#x27;t bother with a lengthy explanation here, but individual skill still plays a huge role in &quot;team&quot; games you know. > > Think of a Soccer (football) team, for example; you have players who are CLEARLY more skilled and noticable than others, and that&#x27;s why they get to the level that they do in terms of pay/recognition/praise etc. > > That doesn&#x27;t mean it&#x27;s not a &quot;team&quot; game; so, imagine if you took random players from random world-class teams, and put them against a fully prepared world-class team with all it&#x27;s usual members. Chances are, the team that was a full team would win, in all cases, even a sub or two on a full team is a big deal most times. > > My point is that Solo skill matters, for one, and trying to conflate solo players with people who play as a team is a bad idea and will ruin the overall matchmaking style and give inaccurate skill ratings of each individual player. I understand that playing alone with 4 strangers is much different than playing with a group of your friends. Having chemistry and synergy with a group of friends gives you an advantage over playing alone. However, it's worthwhile to mention that with riots matchmaking system groups of similar numbers get matched against each other. This means that if you're playing as a solo player against a team of 4 and a solo, you are most likely the solo player with a team of 4 on your team. Basically, you have the same advantage on your team that the enemy has on theirs. Just because you aren't part of the group of 4, doesn't mean you don't benefit from that synergy being on your team. This is why I believe the "disadvantage" that solo players face in dynamic queue is blown wildly out of proportion. I'll concede that it isn't perfect, but I don't think it's nearly as bad as the fearmongers make it out to be.
Kodyack (NA)
: Oh, I'm sorry, I missed the part where you explained WHY THIS WAS A BAD THING. wait, you didn't, my bad. Listen, mate, perhaps Riot is trying to add more friend-group focused queueing, however this is simply just BAD for every solo player because their rank means less, they have less fun, and are more likely to get picked on (odd man out) while in a game or champ select. You know where people should go to play with friends? normals. they should go to normals. you know where people should go to prove their OWN skill? ranked. that's what ranked is for, right? Apprently Riot doesn't agree. Simply put, yes, solo queue would make dynamic queue break and be impossible to play; however why is that a bad thing when dynamic queue has already destroyed solo queue and made everyone who plays alone unhappy? Are we lesser people because we don't like to play with friends in ranked and would prefer to show our own ability? besides that "get some friends or don't play"? seriously? That's the direction you're taking then? Hell man, lots of solo players are already leaving, while others resign themselves to playing at a disadvantage. On a secondary note, if Riot makes every single solo player unhappy in playing this game, and they (mostly) all quit, what happens to dynamic queue then? Oh, right, it breaks. Again. Solo players are required, so the "get some friends" line doesn't even work. Besides that, there's no incentive to solo, maybe if there was, people wouldn't complain so much because it would FEEL fair, even if it was still slightly offset one way or another. (changed LP for solo players so you get a bit more credit for your work alone, or such)
> [{quoted}](name=Kody119,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kl2ejExp,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2016-06-22T12:26:36.279+0000) > > Oh, I&#x27;m sorry, I missed the part where you explained WHY THIS WAS A BAD THING. > > wait, you didn&#x27;t, my bad. > > > > Listen, mate, perhaps Riot is trying to add more friend-group focused queueing, however this is simply just BAD for every solo player because their rank means less, they have less fun, and are more likely to get picked on (odd man out) while in a game or champ select. > > You know where people should go to play with friends? normals. they should go to normals. > > you know where people should go to prove their OWN skill? ranked. that&#x27;s what ranked is for, right? Apprently Riot doesn&#x27;t agree. > > > > Simply put, yes, solo queue would make dynamic queue break and be impossible to play; however why is that a bad thing when dynamic queue has already destroyed solo queue and made everyone who plays alone unhappy? Are we lesser people because we don&#x27;t like to play with friends in ranked and would prefer to show our own ability? > > > besides that &quot;get some friends or don&#x27;t play&quot;? seriously? That&#x27;s the direction you&#x27;re taking then? Hell man, lots of solo players are already leaving, while others resign themselves to playing at a disadvantage. > > On a secondary note, if Riot makes every single solo player unhappy in playing this game, and they (mostly) all quit, what happens to dynamic queue then? Oh, right, it breaks. Again. Solo players are required, so the &quot;get some friends&quot; line doesn&#x27;t even work. Besides that, there&#x27;s no incentive to solo, maybe if there was, people wouldn&#x27;t complain so much because it would FEEL fair, even if it was still slightly offset one way or another. (changed LP for solo players so you get a bit more credit for your work alone, or such) Okay so the solo queue community position is no longer "give us a solo queue alternative," instead it's "replace dynamic queue with solo queue." You at least understand that you getting what you want would lead to other players losing what they want. Now the question is, why do you believe your needs as a solo player are more important than those of a group player? At least with the dynamic queue system you have the option to queue solo. Sure it may not be ideal, and as a solo player you may be at a slight disadvantage (albeit I think the disadvantage you experience is wildly over-exaggerated), but at least you have the option. Your proposition is that dynamic queue should die, effectively removing the option for players to queue as groups of 2/3/4, just so solo players will be able to play the way they want? From my point of view, one of these options is a decent compromise for all players (dynamic queue), and the other only caters to some players while saying "fuck you" to the other players (solo queue).
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Xonra (NA)
: Login Error. Is there a server issue?
Edit: Nevermind I was just able to login.
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Darksyde (NA)
: So are the forum badges gone?
Mousing over the forum name just to see the badges is such a horrible inconvenience. Like wtf we earned them and we want them displayed in plain view when we post a damn thread.
Soulsie (NA)
: Can we PLEASE just have GD back?
Darksyde (NA)
: So are the forum badges gone?
Nope they didn't show up...new boards are shit. Way to ruin another part of your game riot! :D
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Darksyde

Level 125 (NA)
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