: Psst, Riot: WE GET IT.
The un-continued story threads is one of Riot's biggest sins with its lore. I remember there was a red post saying they knew how the War of Three Sisters was going to end a few years ago and the War of Three Sisters started in 2013... The lack of progression is infuriating. We have a MONTHLY comic series for Lux ongoing right now... meanwhile 140+ other champs get fuckall while the Lux comic is ongoing. It's baffling to me just how barebones League's lore after the Great Retcon 6 years later and their release rate of new lore content is slow as hell. I don't know what Riot has planned in their concept boards and drawing rooms but what they've produced so far is honestly not sufficient for the scale of the game, and the story. Oneshot color stories where nameless redshirts and nobody secondary characters die or get their come-uppance is not satisfactory. They have over 140+ champions and Jinx, who is one of their flagship champs in terms of skins, has 1 oneshot comic and 1 music video on top of some color stories. And it's sad to know she'd probably be considered a champ who has **above average** lore dedicated to her compared to other champs.
Seba7290 (EUNE)
: New bio for Zilean and stories for Qiyana and Malphite
Qiyana's story is... definitely something. It makes her un-redeemable. It's a deliberate act that led to severe consequences (and she's aware of these consequences after the fact) yet she doesn't care for it. She's narcissistic to a fault. This isn't arrogance, she has severe mental issues. I'm not sure if it's psychopath or sociopath but wow. I thought she was a bratty entitled kid before, now she's straight up Denarys mad queen levels of goofy.
: Hey do you have any good 40k books to recommend? Id like to actually read some stories about the universe but dont know which ones are good ( apparently one of the books has a space elf get sodomized bu children). I’ve always known the general lore about the universe ( Perturabo being a manchild, Vulkan being the coolest primarch, Necron’s having pokemon gods) but would like a more in depth look into it.
I liked Talon of Horus. It focuses on Abbadon who's a big name but it utilizes a lot of OC's who are fairly developed and interesting. it also follows a fairly straightforward plot structure a bit reminiscent of Star Wars. I also enjoyed the writing style and POV. You can probably go through the usual Horus Heresy, Ciphias Cain, Guant's Ghost recs too. I found that they're mostly hit or miss. If you're super edgy you can just watch Emperor's Text to Speech on YouTube and learn lore that way. It's surprisingly accurate.
: Are all the plotlines going anywhere?
League of Legends has a lot of Warhammer 40k writers working on their staff. Warhammer 40k lore, for a loooooong time was very stagnant and slow moving. It's only very recently WH40k started to advance it's story and timeline and even then pretty glacially. Literally years would move by and a lot of ongoing major campaigns would be untouched. The expectation was the only real advancement you would see would be in small, relatively insignificant throwaway side stories where the major balance of powers wouldn't change featuring cameos of major characters. This is pretty much modern League lore - throwaway color stories, throwaway side characters that die, and ongoing storylines that don't go anywhere. Oh, and I forgot the excessive worldbuilding with quirky names just because. I do not expect the plotlines to ever really go anywhere. And even if they do, it's hard to really care or feel any impact on them since so much of League's world is unrealized and poorly developed and has no effect on the gameplay.
Falrein (EUW)
: New lore is out - Mordekaiser, Qiyana, and a new region, Ixtal
Qiyana's story reminds me so much of Fiora's. They're both younger siblings with great talent and end up beating people up to their way to inheritance. They're both cock/arrogant as a result of their talent. And they both want to inherit their family's claims. There's some minor differences here and there but Qiyana is basically Fiora in the Jungle.
: We don't have a spoiled rich brat archetype in League so it's actually interesting imo. Neither AS nor Camille actually pedestal themselves even though they can be cocky or self righteous. It'll be cool to see Qiyana as a character with a "princess complex".
> We don't have a spoiled rich brat archetype in League so it's actually interesting imo. I felt a lot of {{champion:114}} 's story crosses over with Qiyana's. You've got... 1. Scion of some ancient dynasty/noble house. Check. 2. Youngest/younger sibling not set to inherit the dynasty/noble house. Check. 3. Is extremely talented in some martial skill set. Check. 4. Character is arrogant as a result. Check. 5. Defeats the rightful heir (Fiora's father or Qiyana's older sister) 6. Gets respect through combat and now feels she has to restore/protect her house/name/etc... The story beats sound extremely similar to me. The context might be different, but ultimately they're both spoiled rich brats who are the younger sibling with extraordinary talent and wants to press their family inheritance.
: I think if Shen was more Shogun like he'd be able to read more like a tank visually
I think that'd be a good call, Shen looking like a Shogun to emphasize his tankiness. They stripped down Kayle's armor to emphasize she's not a tank but Amumu is a small mummy but also a tank so... consistency I guess.
Lewanor (NA)
: {{champion:91}} Has a knife cape for some reason, never mentioned in the lore, he doesn't use it neither in game or lore. Has an armblade while historically and realistically holding a dagger or a sword would do the same job better. Somehow turns invisible, somehow makes blades float, somehow gets all those knives from somewhere while people like Katarina and Zed etc has at least some small knives in their models. I mean there are a lot of reasons why Riot avoided updating Talon for this long like Yordles. He is kinda... useless and his plot is kinda unimportant too. It's certainly not a coincidence he was released after Assassin's Creed started gaining popularity, not at all!
I forgot Talon existed lorewise to be honest. If you asked me list all the Noxian champs I'd forget him every single time.
Rioter Comments
: Heart vs Shell: The Disagreement on Lore
I feel the influence/influx of Warhammer 40k writers is steering League into this new lore direction of 'omg we have to make people good/bad/shades of gray but really they're good/bad I swear!'. There's a huge emphasis on 'Factions' just like how WH40k divides up its lore among major Imperium factions and xeno races. The problem is that this can make a lot of storylines feel super isolated from one another, which is currently a huge problem in League. Warhammer 40k, to it's credit, has a long series of supplementary material to support its gigantic cast and various plot threads. Novels and new codex books are released regularly. League... League's only regular release is a SINGLE 4-issue comic highlighting ONE champion (maybe 2 with Sejuani) which is ending in a month. We've also got 2 more comics (unknown issue-count/release schedule) + a novella (not a novel). This is great and all... but League has 140+ champions at this point. It's simply not keeping pace. This means League cannot build that interwoven net of plot threads relating to each other. The old lore didn't have this problem at all because you could always handwave a INSTITUTE OF WAR MEETING GROUND. Instead there's several factions that still need to be built up, worldbuilt, and just... so much groundwork left to establish because the tone has shifted from goofy-tabloid-celebrity to dark-fantasy. Modern League lore hasn't found it's niche or groove and the way it's going I just see it as a darker, less interesting fantasy spinoff of Warhammer. League doesn't have a unifying art style like Overwatch/TF/WH40k/Warcraft. League doesn't have a central conflict other than "FACTIONS EXISTS AND THEY FIGHT EACH OTHER OH AND MEBBE THE VOID BUT TEHEHEHEHE NOT YET!" The old League lore had a central conflict, Summoner's Rift, and the politics of the Institute of War. Oh and also let's not forget anything and everything can be retconned at a drop of a hat to completely rework entire bios just because which means there's no point being invested in lore that could be utterly undone with a patch note.
: Old league lore was bad, like really bad.
I am not disagreeing that the old lore had its faults but I think the old lore has one thing the current lore doesn't have, which is a **strong sense of identity**. Old lore was pretty bad, but it was being deliberately bad to the point of cheesiness and hamminess. It's the same sort of campy-style like those old 70/80s Chinese martial arts with bad voice dubs - it's endearing because it's so over-the-top bad. Like come on, the Summoner's Journal was written like a tabloid magazine. New lore is really... disconnected. So many champions are just isolated from one another. At the very least in the old lore had the Institute of War as a sort of catch-all place for every champion to potentially interact, as random as Urgon and Annie or Nidalee and Mordekaiser. I look at new lore and I feel that the new influence, specifically from WH40k, is making League like WH40k-lite but FANTASY DESU! There's... * Persecution against magic (Demacia on Mages, Imperium on Psykers/Mutants) * Magic is something that just happens to regular people (Psykers/Mutants are random, Iceborn/Mages are, as far as know, random or hereditary) * Stories caught in perpetual whatever/stalemates and never updated for years at a time * Big dark bads out to wipe out every one else (Tyranids/Chaos and the Void) * The big dark bads cause people to do insane (Chaos, Void) * Fallen Empires being way better than modern day (Everything is descended from Shurima and the ascended, Imperium's golden age is past) * Characters in lore are generally melodramatic, angst-y... like read Lux's color stories then listen to her ingame VO. There's some serious disconnect. And there's so many angst-y-tragic champion back stories now that are all becoming variants of parent drama or they're super cosmic beings we can't possible understand which is ironic because one of the reasons for the retcon was to avoid that scenario of every champion bio sounding the same. I don't disagree the old lore was bad, but the new lore to me isn't an vast/grand improvement. Current league lore doesn't have a standout identity. Overwatch has an identity. Team Fortress has an identity. And both these game franchises are similar to League where the lore is mostly supplementary and the gameplay is irrelevant to the lore itself. At the rate it's going it looks like it's just copying Warhammer 40k's dark/angsty tone with "oh no1 everyone's sad but we have to save the universe or else the void/chaos will take us all! nooo!!111".
: Runeterra and Mental Illness
Noxus at the very least doesn't care much for PTSD. https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/art-is-life/ > The cries of widowed spouses, grief-stricken mothers, or **nightmare-wracked veterans** were a nightly chorus to accompany the roars of drunken soldiers and the promises of street hawkers who plied their trade best in the darkness. I took this line to mean PTSD is so common, it's just a part of Noxian life. I sincerely doubt there's much of a social support structure for these veterans or available mental healthcare options for them that they're just wandering the streets and stuff.
: > [{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=dW3Ajdyo,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-02-25T16:53:00.532+0000) > > I hadn't considered his family! > > I don't agree that the quote would be about his family, because right now the only confirmed relative he has is his father in the current lore state. His father was willing to accept Shyvana so if his father really was xenophobic, wouldn't he have just not let her in past the border and the lore would have made a comment about how Jarvan had to fight against racism/xenophobia to get Shyvana in? I could imagine nobles not being down with him bringing Shyvana in, but if the lore is doing the swarmy backstabber-nobility story then are these people that Jarven would "love"? I think if Jarvan's household was larger and expanded upon, the family aspect would be stronger but as far as we know, Jarvan is the only and most legitimate heir to the crown (unless that elected council thing is still canon but we have no idea how the nomination or candidate process works). Eh, even though we have little information on the royal family, it's incredibly naïve to think that it's just him and his father. He very likely has a mother who is alive, may possibly have a sibling, but at the very least will have uncles and aunts, cousins, and many other relatives outside of his immediate circle. Many noble relatives also serve in councils and courts with the ruling family, so I think it would be far from unreasonable to think that he has family everywhere in the higher nobility outside of his parents. Regarding Shyvana and Xin, Jarvan IV is the prince - it doesn't matter what his family thinks, if he brings in magical beasts and foreigners and personally places them under his protection in his entourage, they can't publically reprimand him without sending a clear signal of unrest to the populace, so his actions could very well put them in a bad spot politically.
> Eh, even though we have little information on the royal family, it's incredibly naïve to think that it's just him and his father. He very likely has a mother who is alive, may possibly have a sibling You may want to read Jarvan's bio. https://universe.leagueoflegends.com/en_US/story/champion/jarvaniv/ > But all joy was forgotten when Catherine died in childbirth. > > The infant, named for his father’s line, was declared heir apparent to the throne of Demacia. Torn between grief and elation, Jarvan III swore never to take another wife, and that all his hopes and dreams for the kingdom’s future would live on in his son. I do not doubt that Jarvan _could_ have aunts, uncles, cousins - but as far as the lore is concerned, they are not mentioned and thus, to me, not worth discussing.
: I would more imagine that this is about his family and his court more than his actual friends. His father, and family, for generations have upheld the strict, xenophobic, and genocidal tendencies of Demacia. So when young Jarvan IV shows up, with a half dragon and a foreigner in his personal guard, that's clearly going to cause some unrest and disturbance not only in court, but with his family, who will see his choices in friends as humiliating and shameful. His family, for the most part, has the most influence and power over him, since he's to become the next king of Demacia in time. Their strict ideals for power and how to hold it can easily destroy him, especially if his worldly views on people and magic will be a wedge driving him from them and causing them to hate him or plot for some other distant relative to replace him.
I hadn't considered his family! I don't agree that the quote would be about his family, because right now the only confirmed relative he has is his father in the current lore state. His father was willing to accept Shyvana so if his father really was xenophobic, wouldn't he have just not let her in past the border and the lore would have made a comment about how Jarvan had to fight against racism/xenophobia to get Shyvana in? I could imagine nobles not being down with him bringing Shyvana in, but if the lore is doing the swarmy backstabber-nobility story then are these people that Jarven would "love"? I think if Jarvan's household was larger and expanded upon, the family aspect would be stronger but as far as we know, Jarvan is the only and most legitimate heir to the crown (unless that elected council thing is still canon but we have no idea how the nomination or candidate process works).
Rioter Comments
: A Critique on Scathlocke/Lore Team's view on Good and Evil
I feel a problem with the whole "morally grey" character aspect is that a lot, and I mean _a lot_, of League champs are effectively just in their outline stages. They have bios. They have colored stories. But what we see in the game is really just... there. Static. Unchanging. It's tough, _really tough_, to hit all the nuance of a character in Joss Whedon quippy VO lines or word-count limited color stories that can't change the status quo, or bios that summarizes the entire arc. I'd like to see what a "completed" morally grey character arc looks like to Riot because as far as I can see, there's no solid examples of any champ getting their stories told well, except for the Ashe and MF's examples. I feel there's so many frozen conflicts with the Watchers in Freljord, the Demacian Civil War, the Post-Invesion Ionia, the hell's happening in Shurima... Like, what is Jarvan IV's character arc? What about Bard's? What about Annie's? Annie went from a traumatized girl in Annie: ORIGINS to a psychopath child almost instantly in her color story, Trouble. And this is why the whole "morally grey" thing doesn't work for me is because there's almost no story being told beyond the bio/outline stage of what's going in league. A lot of League champs are just MCU characters that are snarky, good combacks, and at the end of their arcs. I think only Miss Fortune (through all the Bilgewater events) and Ashe (because of the Warmother comic) even tries to cover a full "character" arc. Only Gangplank has canon skins of a pre/post lore event. Everything else is a snippet. The League Awaken's thing was cool and all, but it didn't tell a story with character arcs. It was just a bunch of exhibition matches. There's a bunch of animated shorts that show off cool moments for a champion, but they don't string together in a cohesive story.
: I think J3's one of the few League parents who manages to be both a fairly decent person and alive. Well, alive for now at least. {{champion:517}}
You reminded me that in J4's updated bio his mother dies at childbirth now. I think that's a woman in the refrigerator trope? https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/WomenInRefrigerators
Rioter Comments
Echoing (NA)
: "I am Yrael. I am the hammers."
Something that has bothered me a long time about the League canon because outside of the champions, there's no developed characters -- almost all of them die or are stupidly incompetent. The overwhelmingly _vast_ majority of short stories has their short secondary characters die or have people dying. The secondary characters that do live are often not very remarkable (Rafen from Miss Fortune's crew during the Bilgewater event and Fiora's brother from her color story come to mind.) Yreal was a character, following the wise old warrior trope with a grizzly like demeanor, written to die. I don't know how they could have hyped up Yreal's martial prowlness in the set-up of the story without making it seem stupid that Yreal, a guy who cut down 10+ dudes in the Battle of Whatever-rock, gets taken out by a Draklorn, who loses to Ashe because he opted to strangle her instead of dark magic-ing it up. The comic could have tried to angle his defeat more in the fact that he was old/aged and far from his youth? They could show a flashback right before Yreal's death when Ashe was like 4 or something and remarking how that was the first death she remembered, taken by Yreal's hand when she off collecting arrows off the battlefield or something and Yreal beats up 2-3 dudes without a sweat then offer Ashe some jerky. So Ashe's bright and bloody memory of that day is contrasted with the cold reality of Yreal dead on the floor like nothing.
: The Bloodsworn Logren is not dead my friend ! The man destroyed a bridge with a single hammer blow !
Oh. I didn't realize one the surviving bloodsworn had names. You are correct. I only remembered Grena, Yreal, and Maalcrom from issue #1 and 2 of the bloodsworn Ashe sent to die to hold off the bridge.
Rioter Comments
: New Demacian Short Story on Universe
It's not a badly written story. I'm not a fan of the story itself though. he story repeats several themes I've noticed in the overwhelming vast majority of League's short stories. (1) Someone dies tragically - I'm not really a fan of this because it happens too much. People die left and right in many of these short stories. It doesn't raise the stakes for me. (2) They speak in an old-time-y vernacular This line stood out to me: > “These are hillfolk. They’ll put a spear in you before you get within twenty paces of their door.” I get what they're trying to do but it doesn't work for me. I think one of the reasons GoT (TV series) is that GRRM's dialogue in his books were really excessively over-the-top. This writing reminds me of it where it's this very medieval-Shakespeare-like kind of snark but it still feels rigid and formal. Hell, given we have champion VOs where the bulk of the Demacia champions talk pretty normally makes dialogue like this seem even more out of place. I'm not a fan of it. In a lot of ways, this is similar to that Freljord story... Eye of the Abyss? 3 People go on a quest and one of them dies due to magic infection. Then one returns and realizes something something about the world. Oh, they're also told from the POV of the youngest member of the 3-person band. They're also working for effectively a cult organization doing a routine but dangerous mission that goes wrong... the one that dies happens to be the one with the closest/friendliest relationship to the protagonist... I thought the world building was cool. Demacia being a society of basically state-sanctioned witch hunters. I liked seeing Demacia as a very lawful society that follows their rules to the letter. It's a lot more tangible than Ionia (BALANCE! HARMONY!) and less hypocritical than Noxus (they're a meritocracy but they have noble houses...? Is this some kind of Napoleonic blood and merit thing?). It's also cool to see Demacia doesn't have a third amendment and common folk are forced to billet/quarter troops in their homes. That's really neat to me that the institutions exist and shows how they affect the daily lives of citizens outside of "we're here to FUCK YOUR SHIT UP!"
: Vedmah - A freljordian oracle or _**witch**_ who divines through magical means. Somehow a typo sneaked thru on comixology. "witch" not "with." A lot of thought was given to not overwhelming the reader with a bunch of in-world terms, but instead slowly introducing them organically. So each issue will expand the glossary as terms, places, and concepts are added. Re: Oathfather vs Bloodsword. Difference is between "father" and "husband." I.e. Grena's Bloodsword, are Ashe's Oathfathers.
I felt the terms in the comic were introduced very organically. None felt really forced and the slow trickle of worldbuilding as it becomes relevant with scenes to connect them made the terms stick much more strongly than they do in a lot of short stories were they're just thrown in (like sump snipe or drakehounds or the myriad of terms that aren't followed up). Each new term was relevant to the world immediately instead of thrown away to fluff up the world and it made the comic so much more enjoyable. Another thing I feel works greatly in this comic's favor compared to some of the previous comics is that there's a stronger plot. Ashe wants something and there are forces stopping her. Other comics, like Darius/Nami/Ziggs and Jinx is that they just sort of... told something happened. The art is great in all of them but the story they were telling wasn't as focused as this is. This comic has given me hope that League's lore can be great, or at least as popular as it was in the pre-Retcon days. **EDIT QUESTION:** What is the name of Ashe's tribe in the comic? Is it still Avarosan or is the tribe renamed after she finds the ice bow?
  Rioter Comments
: /dev diary: League Comics and Marvel - Nexus
I really like the art style and getting to see what the Freljord. They showed some really cool and promising pictures. I think Ashe is probably the best character to use as like, the "flagship" character for the comics. I hope the quality of the comics stay high and don't end up being glorified exposition dumps where each text bubble is like 1-2 paragraphs and text/dialogue dominates half the page. It's one reason why I hate a lot of comics is because the art is just there to make all the talking heads more bearable.
: As much as I love Odyssey, I'm confused as to why it's always an Alternate Universe.
I imagine it's a lot easier to build lore/story/aesthetic from essentially scratch instead of trying to build off someone else. These Alternate Universes and skin-lines have the benefit of requiring zero commitment from the Riot Team post-release. They can return to it at their leisure and do whatever the hell they want with it. And if people don't like it or hate it, welp then it's simply wasn't canon to begin with. The Kayn, Jinx, Yasuo, Malphite etc... we see in Odyssey are essentially original characters. They have personalities and traits that can be as outlandish or as true to canon as they want - effectively like sanctioned fanfiction OC's. (Yasuo liking smutty romance novels and Malphite being adorable). It gives a lot of freedom to the writers to develop ideas, themes, and concepts since they have much less restrictions than the canon lore. Canon lore in current League is tough. The foundations are still weak, hell most of their world building is concept art and ideas with standalone short stories where in like 90% of them the POV secondary character just dies. There are still a lot of champions who don't tie in with the rest of the universe very well. There's a lot of moving parts and pieces that needs to account both for 140 currently released champions plus all the champions that are being reworked or are being released. Compare that to a skin line where people only need to worry about 5 skins at most (or 10 in the Star Guardian case) and it becomes a lot more manage-able. I do believe Riot should use PvE events to push more canon lore. I think a big stumbling block is that they don't want to release something so definitive and commit so many resources to something where it could be easily retconned because "oops, we forgot this new lore development that was hastily made for our game mode also made 10+ other champions and their lore obsolete/dated/nonsensible."
: What do you expect more from the Noxus lore expansion?
A map, preferably with a short history and blurbs on campaigns both past and ongoing. I'd also like to see more secondary characters introduced for Noxus that AREN'T champions or planned to be champions. Like, who is Swain's chief of staff or his chief diplomat or hell, his doctor. I'd like to see them with unique designs, maybe throwaway designs for scrapped champ concepts, but there's no plans to make them into champions. I think it'd liven up the world.
: All the new skin bios on the PBE
Wow. Times really have changed. https://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/story-art/W0EtmG85-heroes-of-the-storm-explains-the-lore-behind-their-skins-couldnt-riot IronStylus, 3 years ago > We usually intentionally don't do many lore skins. That would reeeeeaally limit us in what idea space we could work in. I think one of the best parts of the game is that the skins aren't cannon. I don't think you could find a fitting place for Heartseeker Varus in the story.. > > ..even if you can, well.. yikes.
: So, question...
That's a neat question. I hope they fuse into some monstrous hybrid both sides hate but secretly covets. Hell if I know.
GenoXx (NA)
: Yeah exactly. Just having something to look forward can be enough. Although I feel like they need to ditch the tied to champion releases thing. Seriously, the comic idea has been brought up so many times. They have four now, but the only one that was about progression in the story was miss fortunes...
Honestly, all 4 comic felt so "throwaway" to me. They didn't really "advance" the lore. They just clarified or showed stuff we either knew already. The only exception I think is the Jinx/Ziggs comic which was pretty much a subtle retcon. * Nami's lore was pretty much her origin bio in comic form. * Darius' love story is basically an origin bio +ULTRA, as far as I can tell, his dead lover will have no future bearing on the lore. * Miss Fortune comic clarified what happened after the events of Burning Tides and stuff, which is that she consolidated control over Bilgewater. The problem is that all the characters introduced were throwaway characters and are now - SPOILERS - dead. Now that I think about it, Riot has a big fucking problem with body counts and making memorable secondary characters.
: They should give us the narrative equivalent of their champion roadmap. Tell is broad terms what they have planned for the coming months. But not as broad as they do "We have stuff planned."
GenoXx (NA)
: You know, lore wasn't really big last year. What's the expectations of 2018?
I don't know if I "expect" it, but I think this would be good for League of Legends lore. More consistent releases with a very public, open timetable. I'm not saying they need to say "Oh we're going to have X event on this date or Y event on that date" like "Oh we're doing the Ionian rework event EXACTLY on March 15, the Ides of March" or something. I mean something localized and focused in scope over a prolonged period of time. I'm thinking some kind of short serials. It could be... * A month of random League of Legends "Facts" about champion personalities where a set of facts, or even one fact, is released every day. It turns out Elice loves wine and steak (rare of course) and she never dies alone (Corpses count as people!). * Weekly comic series focusing on a single champion/storyline spanning 10 weeks (1 comic a week) * Weekly short animation clips contracted to a studio (like a 3-5 minute episode over 10 weeks - that gets you like an hour worth of animation total) * Monthly newsletter where fans can submit random questions on lore (What WOULD Shyvana do if Ezreal licked her knee? Does Vayne like pineapples?). I think this is helpful because Riot loves giving lore tidbits in Q&As but they're really poorly consolidated. Having a monthly newsletter type thing would make it very organized compared to the ad hoc nature of the trivia lore. My caveat on the newsletter Q&A is that they should avoid stuff like what happens sometimes on the Nexus where they use a bloatload of words to say a simple thing. https://nexus.leagueoflegends.com/en-us/2017/06/ask-riot-practice-tool-stays-solo/ Okay, so the question is simple: > Does Runeterra have a calendar? How do people track time? But the way they answered it was so... just stupid. > We are doing a wide range of creative world-building behind the scenes at the moment, bringing you a much deeper, complex, and rich setting in Runeterra, and this absolutely includes the calendar and how time is measured by those who live in our world. > > Developing a concept of time and the tools a culture uses to measure it is a unique challenge. Make something like a calendar system too different and complex, it becomes an abstraction that can distract people from a story. Like, this is a very simple question. Just say "Yes, they track time in various ways." THEN you start giving examples. Hard concrete examples, not fluffy ideas. The entire first paragraph was just rambling and beating 'round the bush for no reason. The guy had a simple question that was basically "Do these people use a month calender? Do they have a 40k system where it's like the 999m41 forever?" It bothers me because it kind of shows how Riot is desperate to appear as if they're trying really hard yet provide nothing of tangible value in their answers. Yeah, I get you're researching a lot and culture factors into how calendars work - do you have an example? No? It's not ready to reveal yet? Then you might want to rethink which questions you pick to answer... tl:dr - Riot needs to give us something concrete to look forward to instead of months of silence then a week of stuff released with mixed reception (see Varus/Zoe).
MrNhbdy (NA)
: Universe is lacking (Opinion?)
A problem is that the lore is pretty ad hoc. Like you said with your Q&A example, where sometimes the Q&A yields pretty interesting trivia information that's not in the universe but since it comes from the 'mouth of god' aka Rioters, it SHOULD be canon unless otherwise. Then this information is forgotten or retconned after the next visual update or champion remake. Sometimes it does feel like the Q&A answers are either "tehehehe, not telling!" or "use your imagination!" like some DnD dungeon master on a power trip or its interesting trivia that's never looked back at (ex: I think Shyvana's lore referenced how she felt uneasy around humans in Demacia because she's different, yet this isn't mentioned in lore - like, at all).
: Amumu's Lore is a great example of compromise between a Company & its Community.
> Riot's solution was actually quite genius. His current lore, to settle the argument, is to take the argument out of our hands. Amumu's story is now a myth within Runeterra itself - so ancient that not even the Runeterrans themselves can agree on his true origin. > > What does this mean for us, the players? We get to believe what we want and nobody can tell us otherwise. We can throw him in with the likes of Azir and Renekton. This is actually pretty clever, when used moderately. The problem is, this is how most of the new champions are now. Most are so mythological, they literally cannot be understood of comprehended (official Riot opinion on Bard specifically). So you end up with a bunch of mythological/god beings like Evelyn, Tahm Kench, Kalista, Kindred, Aurelion Sol who have really distinct personalities, 'meh-out-of-nowhere origins' behind them because they're all essentially "hurr hurr, godlike being here" This is like, a modification of the "dark and mysterious" past people joke about. Like, even Jinx, a decidedly human character isn't safe from this whole 'myths and rumors/dark mysterious past' sheningans. > **No one knows for sure exactly where Jinx came from, but many urban legends and folktales have sprung up around her.** Some have her as a young gang member who fell in with the wrong crowd and was either traumatized by one too many killings, suffered too much at the hands of an enemy or was simply driven insane by sump fumes. A few of the old timers in Zaun remember a young girl who might fit Jinx’s description, but the girl they speak of is a far cry from the one who became Piltover’s bane. This girl was sweet and innocent, a tinkerer with big ideas, who never quite fit in and came to a bad end. Some even whisper that Jinx isn’t even human, that she is some kind of avenging spirit of mayhem, come to wreak havoc upon Piltover in revenge for the thousands who died when Zaun sank into the earth.
darkdill (NA)
: Which Champions would you claim are hedonists?
{{champion:222}} and {{champion:420}} are probably the most hedonist. Jinx just does whatever she wants for fun and Illaoi literally follows a religion that boils down to hedonism. {{champion:240}} {{champion:115}} {{champion:28}} and {{champion:142}} are all "hedonistic" in a way where they do stuff that makes them feel good instead of some high ideal. Kled, for me, seems like he likes battle enough and the Noxians are an outlet for that. Ziggs likes to blow things up. Evelyn likes to torture things. And Zoe just... does her thing...
: I think that's called a scarf{{sticker:sg-lulu}}
I think he means if you look at his arm and his armpit/underarm, you'll notice his back has a "hump". You expect the arm when it connects to the shoulder to make a clean line. Instead there's a bulging growth that grows behind the shoulder that makes him look like a hunchback. This is especially jarring when you step back and consider Varus' head size and how big the growth looks.
Eggbread (NA)
: Why People Generally Dislike Lore Changes
This is a problem of Riot shifting from personal stories to "legendary" or "mythic" story telling. Sometimes this is done well, like with Ornn, where we're told a bunch of creation myths about him. Other times, like with Zoe, we're kind of... like what? She's a kid, so she's relatable, but she has sociopathic/really funked up emotional and personality. Personal stories are easier to relate to, but when every champion is slowly becoming pretty hard to relate/like on an emotional/story/personal level (Kalista, Bard, Kindred, Aurelion Sol, Tahm Kench, Evenlyn) because they're literal one-note godlike beings then the story loses a lot of impact. > The Darius comic? That's development. That's more of what we need. I thought the Darius comic was bland, but I liked the expansion of Darius' background. I personally wouldn't have killed off Q- whatever her name is. I feel we need more side characters, with distinct designs and personalities, that stand out besides champions. I think the only one that's still canon is Tamara (?) from Darius' comic but even her design is pretty meh. All of the rival gang leaders in MF's comic are dead... Nami's mom is pretty hot but she's pretty much Nami so meh. Fuck, even the two gay lovers, Kai and Valmar, were bland as hell and they're 2/3rds of Varus. Honestly, tell me what Kai and Valmar were like pre-merge without rereading the comic for specific talking head dialogue. They weren't very strong or memorable.
: The videos, and art side are fantastic. Like the visuals in the varus video were nice. But the writing is pretty subpar, the deletion of characters we liked as opposed to modifications to said characters are a sin. My broken record statement, I fear a bit for Morgana and Kayle's update in the future.
The writing gets me a lot because the vast bulk of the new lore is tragedy fetish. Everything is tragedy or has someone dying. It gives Runeterra, and the League Universe as a whole, a very bleak sort of aesthetic/theme. It's very dark (I recently read Ryze's color story where he basically condemns a whole village to die in the winter because he took their World Rune). I don't know if that aesthetic... works? I guess it's not very interesting to me because the tone is set to such dark levels I'm trying to look for like, optimism or humor or... something different. But even still, League of Legends outside of the champions is still concept art and bland. Like, look at Kai and Valmar - they were pretty damn cardboard. I honestly couldn't remember who was who. One's blonde and the other has black hair. That's about it. I think in terms of aesthetic, only Bilgewater feels alive due to the ARAM map, the comics, and the idea of a pirate city-state. I think most of the other regions still exists almost solely in concept art or color stories.
: Why Varus's new lore was doomed to fail.
> Varus was an old character who had a workable story. Riot's team opted to throw Varus's story away even though they could have easily tweaked it to fit the new lore. There's another topic on the boards about this but I feel it's true, Varus' old lore was completely workable in the post-retcon world. They could have done the three souls in one body thing with Varus' son instead. Instead they retconned it. Why? I mean hell, they could take Ahri and instead of a sexy Asian-inspired fox girl they could retcon her into a black-skinned Afro-wearing hyena girl instead. What's the difference? They're both half-animal seductresses right? To me, it shows a glaring issue with Riot's lore in that the Retcon still affects the lore to this day. Nothing is sacred. What is a "placeholder" and what's not? Miss Fortune and the most recent champions seem canon but are they? It's been a pretty bad couple of weeks of reception for Riot lore. Zoe and especially Varus were pretty polarizing. **Possible Solutions to Varus' Post-Retcon Reception** I think if the gay couple of more developed. If their human designs were reworked to be much, much MORE distinctive - like literally Valmar and Kai are the blandest champion(ish?) characters shown. I think if they made Valmar (who is the protector of the well, I think?) the one who stays behind at the temple, deciding to fulfill his duty to keep the temple safe first and foremost and praying his lover Kai is alive - then Kai stumbles in and collapses and Valmar realizes he needs the well to take vengeance and save his lover's life - they could have salvaged a lot of Varus' old lore (the themes of duty vs love, decision to willingly take in the corruption for vengeance). It would have also made the dynamic between Kai and Valmar stronger if they were shown their differences in comics through more than just... basically talking heads although that's probably an issue with their bland character designs.
: That's the thing tho, what makes it officially bad? It's all opinionated, it may be bad to you, but not to someone else. And that's what Riot realizes, so it's not an issue that much to them anymore.
They're welcome to ignore criticism but that doesn't make it go away.
Skorch (NA)
: Riot an Idea for future lore/gameplay reworks, that would increase interactivity, and prevent Varus.
People generally don't know what they want. Like, if you had sat down a bunch of people in committee at large - you'd never get things like the Marvel Cinematic Universe or Overwatch. Oh jeez, a billionaire playboy in a suit saving the world? That's a batman rip off. Guy who is frozen for years from WW2 and is a super soldier? So contrived/dated. Uh, Norse gods exist? Wtf is this timeline even, lmao! Billionare mecha-suit guy, a living legend, a demi-god, a guy with anger management issues, and a couple master assassins? So lame and forced. It'd never work. I think if Riot executed their stories better, as the MCU has done, they could silence a lot of hate. Honestly, the new Varus story wasn't told very well - especially Act I of the comics.
Snowcorn (EUW)
: Seems like Varus lore change was the Lore team playing its ace card...
That's a great point. Doesn't matter if the story is good or not but at least the character is gay and to a large section of the internet, 'an attack on one gay is an attack on all'.
: Does anyone actually care for Val and Kai?
I don't think Valmar or Kai were very interesting characters. They were bare bones, and cardboard cut out bland. This may come off as a double standard, but 'straight couples where one lover dies and the other wants vengeance' is very cliche/overdone. And often, it's done poorly. So when this is played out, only with a gay couple this time instead of a straight couple, it comes off as extremely pandering by Riot. Like, it looks so obvious they're trying to score LGBT points. What does Valmar and Kai add to the story? Are they two well developed characters that can justify their existence? I think it does a disservice when diversity is thrown in for the sake of diversity. If Riot wanted LGBT representation, at least make them good/interesting/compelling characters to do them justice, not tack it on.
: All of the Varus threads are reminding me of what happened to a certain other lovable champion...
It's funny because ever since Trundle's update (back in 2013 iirc) there's been no further updates on him or really the War of Three Sisters in general. I'm not disliking Trundle's retcon, but he was retconned... why again? So he could join some arbitrary faction in Freljord and take no further story role for years?
Arakadia (NA)
: Old Varus absolutely needed some significant lore work. And his new story wouldn't work on a new character without stepping all over Varus.
> Old Varus absolutely needed some significant lore work. * Old Varus story was about a father who chose to protect the temple over saving his village (and family). Then he gets corrupted by the Pool of Pallas. That's Varus' old lore in a nutshell. * New Varus' lore is about two gay lovers where one dies, the other gets a crazy idea to drag them both into the forbidden pool, and now they're a mishmash of three people. Oh, and this pool happens to be a Darkin. The problem I feel is that Varus' old lore was EXTREMELY compatible with the new lore. It was retcon for the sake of retcon. How exactly do the two same-sex lovers add or build any connection to the rest of the league of legends? How hard was it for Riot to just make Varus (the father) and his son the 2 souls vying for dominance against the third one? How hard was it clarify that the Pool of Pallas as a Darkin? None of that seems difficult at all. Old Varus' old didn't need significant rework at all. How much has this NEW LORE added to Varus that couldn't have been done or modified from the pre-existing lore? Would you like to clarify what exactly about old Varus needed reworking other than removing references to the retconned League of Legends/Institute of War? Would you like to explain how new Varus' lore connects to other champions other than the Darkin thing (which, as I said before, could simply be clarified as a Pool of Darkin)?
: > [{quoted}](name=Darrosh Jewfist,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=UEuiYj63,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2017-12-01T02:14:45.904+0000) > > There's nothing wrong per se of Varus being 2 gay lovers + a darkin. _**The fact it comes off of retconning Varus' family and just how poorly developed the 2 lovers were does kind of make it feel shoe-horned in for the sake of having 2 gay lovers. **_ > > They were much better off using this 2 gay lovers + a darkin in a new champ instead of shoehorning it into Varus. They could at least shrug off the retcon blowback. The lovers could have been developed more.We might get flashbacks as they fight the Darkin along the way and see how they met,how they bonded etc.,but I must point out the hypocrisy in the highlighted post. Tho they're are poorly developed (for now) ,it's still better than his old lore, where the family was just mentioned and nothing more. Seems it's inaccurate to call them less developed compared to the family.
> Seems it's inaccurate to call them less developed compared to the family. I should clarify what I meant by poorly developed lovers. Varus' old lore, in the eyes of many, could EASILY be adaptable into his new lore. It was compatible. The gay lovers thing adds nothing. It was change for the sake of change. Varus' old family was poorly developed, yes, but the point was that he had family and he had to choose between them and his family and he lost it. Here, two gay lovers are introduced... why? To get 3 souls in one mish-mashed body? Why not just have Varus (the father) and his son from his old lore be the two? Isn't it fundmanetally the same thing? Riot did this so they can tell a cheap, love story about two gay people? Uh, does that really add anything to the story that love of family doesn't? Are these two characters, Kai and Valmar, even well developed enough to earn names? Who cares who they are - they're as bland as cardboard. It's a case of "if it ain't broke, don't fix it". And because they threw in the gay lovers thing, it makes it feel like Riot wanted to score LGBT points - if they wanted to be more earnest about it they should have just used new Varus' lore on an upcoming champ or for a different character retcon instead of taking a confirmed straight character and making him 2 different ones and 2/3rds gay.
: What's that suppose to mean?
From Ahri's lore. > “For you, I’ll trade a cerulean bauble for the cost of a single cryraven feather, or perhaps the seed of a jubji tree. I’m flexible.” Also from Ahri's lore. > “Legend says the sculptor known as Ymelo collected fossilized lizard eggs from a thousand thousand years ago that he carved into intricate shapes. These ancient lizards lived long before the Ghetu Sea dried up to a desert, leaving only petrified bones and dust.” From Taric's lore. > He saw the Alabaster Library engulfed in pitch and flame, and still he dashed into the roiling inferno to retrieve the poetry of Tung. He screamed in rage as the Frostguard ran the last dreamstag off a blind cliff, and then leapt into the abyss himself in a desperate attempt to save it. That's name it and drop it. They're adjectives/pronouns tossed around to make the League universe seem larger/flashier than it really is. It's amateur-ish. That's empty world building.
: ***
Uh, no... I'm suggesting that if Riot wanted to do it, they could have done it better. It's called feedback.
WarWork (NA)
: This Varus thing makes riot seem super scary. . ..
I get what you mean, OP. It does show no champion is safe from a "surprise" retcon. Varus' old lore was very, VERY compatible with the current lore and minor tweeks to Pallas being a Darkin could have easily fixed him. There really is a sense of "shut up and like it" mentality on the lore. Whereas Riot is extremely open to feedback in gameplay, skins, and other areas, Narrative is like a hermit department that basically doesn't like to take community suggestions. They pretty much only show up to clarify or hype up - never to say "wow! that's a neat idea!" They're very adverse to fanon.
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Darrosh Jewfist

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