Rioter Comments
Skorch (NA)
: I dont know if anyone mentioned it here yet but its Soul Hunter Kayn, for the Soulstealer skinline.
because that's not redundant at all
Rioter Comments
: LoL has had autofill for years, you just gotta get used to it
Yorick, Taric, Urgot have been unpickable for years. You just gotta get used to it. They don't make changes to the game ever.
: The only way to fix the support situation is to fix the adc situation first Meaning bringing them in line with the rest of the classes, opening up the support to be more of a team support rather then the adc's bitch like the rest of the team. this would also allow for more agency to be put into the supports hands directly as opposed to being tied to some other class Riot favors adc too much to do this so it will never happen Evidence for this si all the class updates they did So better get used to autofill and playing special snowflake and the 4 dwarves
They've got a model to follow with Smite. In that game, the support roams started from level 3-4.
Rioter Comments
: You know it's really silly that these threads get downvoted seeing one end of this scenario. I'm a support main and get autofilled sometimes into adc or Jungle, jg being the role I don't play whatsoever. Knowing your strong points is a strength in itself and there are certainly people out there that want to support. Having your match lost due to autofill tilt in ranked is unacceptable and I find it ridiculously poor that we're in Season 7 of a game with this playerbase size and you're telling me that "longer que times" is the only repercussion here.
Yeah, they don't seem to understand that people won't want to play the game at all if they don't even get to play how they want. They've got some impression that people would rather play one 20 minute loss for autofill protection for 2 games than wait an extra 2 minutes for each of 10 games.
: its a neccessary evil because no one wants to support. everyone wants to be le carry(despite the ironic fact that supports are currently the hardest carries in the game. everyone single one has over 50% winrate minus tahm) if we got rid of autofill no one would pick support and que times would increased by 2x - 4x. why do you think you get autofilled as support 99% of the time? it exist purely for that reason. if you want to "play seriously" then you probably should learn support. its a MASSIVELY underestimated role in terms of carry potential, and im not talking about the pure dmg supports either, im talking about actual utility supports like {{champion:40}} {{champion:267}} {{champion:16}} . even lane support {{champion:427}} carries really hard
It's not a necessary evil. The evil is that Riot is not taking the steps needed to make Support a desirable role. And they're putting the lack of effort behind the mask that "everything is okay" because autofill artificially shows people are playing support.
Rioter Comments
: >Tanks in video games in general are supposed to be enablers and protectors, yeah. there's nothing wrong with selfish tanks
It's hard to take anything seriously from you, knowing you're only advocating for tank items because you like to use the class that abuses them for no drawbacks.
Ralanr (NA)
: Problem is that tanks are not only designed to go in the support role, at least primary tanks aren't supposed to go there. We have tanks designed for top lane and jungle, which require some level of damage to farm and trade effectively so that their lanes are interactive and their cleats aren't too slow.
The issue with the tank update was that they updated 3 junglers and buffed the monster damage of Cinderhulk, but nerfed all top laner tank items and didn't update any top laners.
: If anything, they should buff their defense. Tanks in video games are supposed to be that: team enablers and protectors who don't deal much damage on their own. At least not in a reliable way.
Tanks in video games in general are supposed to be enablers and protectors, yeah. In _other_ games, you can actually force the AI to aggro onto you. Here, that only works with neutral monsters and turrets. If the enemy is afraid you'll have a tank who can block skillshots, they just don't have to pick skillshots that can be blocked. The 3 taunts only last up to 2.5s, so the ideal goal of a video game tank is not possible in this game. So they have to focus mainly on CC to do anything of impact.
: For characters that were hit hard by not being able to deal enough dmg, maybe reduce their damaging ability cooldowns? Or introduce an item that provides champs with the CD reduction part of Taric's passive. If a tank is staying alive longer, being able to 1.5 rotation of spells could help
I've made several threads to show the math of Sunfire vs Cleaver, but the jist of it is that, due to drastically lower efficiency Sunfire is around 580g more expensive than Cleaver despite technically costing 200 less. The gold cost of 20% CDR is only 533g. So they could give 20% CDR to sunfire cape fairly.
Rioter Comments
: Bami's and Cinderhulk are getting buffs, but Sunfire isn't getting any changes. Bami's changes make it cheaper to purchase (so you can get it earlier) and give its passive more damage to minions/monsters, at the cost of its health. It's not... bad... for Sunfire users, but the changes mostly benefit junglers aiming for Cinderhulk. It really doesn't do much for Sunfire. The main issue with Sunfire is that it isn't really useful for anything _but_ waveclear, now, which most tanks don't necessarily want after laning phase is over. They aren't typically going to be splitpushing, and they're the most useful when they're with their team, who will have much better waveclear. Cinderhulk stays relevant throughout the game, since it gives 20% bonus health, and the jungler will continue to farm camps throughout the game. But Sunfire's stats just don't contribute much for how much it costs and how little the passive will be used after laning phase (especially considering how weak it is against champions). Honestly, it's just not that great for tanks anymore. It only continues to be bought frequently because it's the best of a slew of "meh" Armor+HP "tank" items, none of which really benefit tanks (Randuin's is good, but it usually doesn't help laning too much except in certain match-ups). That's why top lane tanks are even starting to buy Knight's Vow and Righteous Glory early.
Exactly, my man. It's completely ridiculous that they only adjusted 3 junglers, but changed the starter item for tank laners. And the changes are still only suited to those three that were actually updated in this class update.
: Tank items are already cheap. Damage items aren't insanely gold efficient.
You're actually wrong. All damage items have above 85% efficiency even without their passives. But he's wrong too. It's not all tank items that are this inefficient, it's just Sunfire and Deadman's. Unfortunately, while damage increases greatly for small increases in number, increases in armor have heavily diminishing returns.
: > Due to the switch of 75 HP to 10 Armor, penetration items are more effective than before. Armor pen was nerfed too, so your argument breaks. > As a side not, the ~580 difference in gold efficiency is close to the 530 gold cost of 20% CDR. So perhaps Cleaver needs it removed or Sunfire needs it added. Because killing the entire bruiser class is such a good idea.
Armor penetration items were only nerfed to a state still higher than how strong they were before less-recent buffs. And the bruiser class was fine when Cleaver only gave 10% CDR and 300 HP. The difference now is that there is no item you can possibly buy early to fight Darius.
: I'd say buff the stats but increase the cost. Tanks need more big ticket items, not fewer.
As you an see with my note at the end, 20% CDR is the difference in the costs. If they just added 20% cdr to sunfire and deadman's, the cost would be evened out.
Saianna (EUNE)
: > Which was all well and good until both of those masteries were weakened. That sounds like what Riot did with Warwick and Sejuani and Sion long time ago. Buff items. Buff masteries. Nerf champion. Then nerf items. Then nerf masteries. And leave nerfed champion for a year or longer.
Yes. They do this all the time. And unless the champion is Lee Sin, they stay that way. Sejuani for Cinderhulk Xin and Kayle for Sated Poppy for Courage of the Colossus. This is an ongoing trend that they refuse to own up to.
korg023 (EUNE)
: After these nerfs to sunfire damage to champions i never buy it anymore. I avoid playing champions that need that item or that item completely. Splitpushing with tanks never worked,it doesent matter how fast you push waves with sunfire if you cant damage towers with your tank build. Killing tower with shen is so boring since it takes you ages even if towers in this season are wet towel paper rolls.
You're completely right. At this point, if you wanted to play someone like Poppy or Malphite you might be more effective waiting out the 200 gold to buy Cleaver yourself.
: >And the "nerf" to cleaver was not to reduce its effectiveness-- it only serves to make the item shred just as much armor as before. 24% of 60 is 14.4. 30% of 50 was 15. So its really a nerf of BC and a buff of tank items. Correct me if im wrong but 45,6 (60-14.4) > 35 (50-15). Btw the shred wasn't the only nerf... the build path was changed too. The real problem in the game is (are) adc and there crit
You're not wrong... You're just ignoring HP. Cleaver's still just as effective since the items give less effective health overall. It was not nerfed, it was adjusted so that it's still more effective. And as I pointed out, it's still 600 gold more efficient despite being built on champions who can farm and kill easier. The build path was changed before, when they switched some AD to additional health. So that's a moot point.
Aeszarck (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DeceasedL0ved0ne,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=b0YAllRm,comment-id=000e,timestamp=2017-06-22T15:10:23.356+0000) > > If you have a Darius stupid enough to die in lane, you're better off with him afk than with him 0-10. Why do you imply Darius shouldn't die in lane? He's a bit harder to kill than most top laners but he's still vulnerable to dying to ganks or just getting outplayed in lane.
If someone who doesn't even know Darius well enough to use his lane phase advantage or clears waves with Q so as to be pushed up far enough to die to a gank, they were going to lose regardless of the pick. Regardless of the champion, a player bad enough to leave at 3 minutes was most likely going to give the enemies 2000g worth of kills. But with a champion whose only win condition is whether or not the enemy hard-countered them, the player's gotta be dumber than normal.
Rioter Comments
: Junglers are buying Knight's Vow, Toplaners are back to being a living bait for enemy ADC
Odd to see a complaint with two examples of champions who weren't effected by the recent tank item nerfs and didn't even build them in those games. Just looks like bad games on strong champs.
: Lmfao THIS Patch? Ever since they have been given tank stats via items effects that should be only on Bruisers ({{item:3046}} {{item:3812}} ) Coped with disgusting amounts of mobility (which i belive to be the worst afront), and throw in supports now making someone nigh unkillable via {{item:3109}} {{item:3190}} {{item:3107}} and riot decided that wasent enough so they reworked {{item:3026}} to give em an extra life. Everything is out of control. Its fucking retarded and honestly ive just downloaded HOTS and moved there until riot decides to unfuck their game.
And now on top of those changes all tank items were nerfed. Especially both Tabi and Randuin's.
: ADCs are needlessly strong this patch
Crit item costs were reduced, Death's Dance was buffed, Sunfire and Randuin's were drastically nerfed. This development is to be expected.
GIaceon (EUNE)
: If you take video games this seriously and get so upset then you should grow up too.
But if you don't take a PvP team game as serious as needed, there are plenty of Player vs AI games you can try. Ya don't sign up to play a baseball game if all you wanted to do was run around the bases.
: Just had a darius AFK at 3 minutes because he died to a gank.
If you have a Darius stupid enough to die in lane, you're better off with him afk than with him 0-10.
:,100):origin()/pre01/23b5/th/pre/i/2017/152/7/a/dawnbringer_riven_by_thats_lewdacris-dbb8das.png Here you go buddy!
Ralanr (NA)
: Then basically every time Yasuo ults into a team it's a death sentence.
{{item:3812}} {{item:3153}} {{item:3072}} Yeah, a death sentence. Other champions who are more susceptible to CC have to time their engages so as to not get focused down and die instantly. The same should be true of Yasuo especially since he can easily buy lifesteal.
Rioter Comments
: Yasuo is not evil, Riven is. Evil refers to the loser, Justice refers to the victor. The method doesn't matter, the loser is the evil one.
Neither is evil. They're both just confused.
: Order is gunna win and here's why
but srsly can we get the link to the thumbnail
Rainfall (EUNE)
: all tanks scale with something,otherwise playing a tank would not be rewarding when youre winning lane.
My point is that it's not rewarding. She scales a stat she doesn't build, so as she's winning lane her abilities aren't getting any stronger aside from the base from leveling. Since she doesn't buy AD, and they only scale _bonus_ AD, she's not getting anything for winning lane. I'm asking for a buff.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Slythion (NA)
: the threat of cc would be nice but b/c mobility is becoming so rampant in the game it's easier to just ignore tanks than it was in previous seasons
Exactly. And the few who can lock down opponents with AoE abilities need to be able to stand the lane phase without a massive gold deficit, since the efficiency of their items is around 580g less efficient than the bruiser start with only a 200g difference in cost. That's why we see Galio and Gragas dominating top as the only viable tanks. they're the only ones with the kits to do both their job as tanks and farm against higher-damage opponents.
Slythion (NA)
: then why would you not giving tanks the stat that make them tanks? Making a tank do damage is literally against the definition of a tank
Because that's the direction they're going with all changes. Thanks to the fact that any champion who can easily clear/poke or 1v1 has a far superior lane phase compared to a champion who shines during teamfights, tanks needed the damage from sunfire to have any kind of chance in lane. Perhaps increasing the damage of Bami's Cinder could also help, but again it's a damage change. They've already shown they do not want champions to actually be tanky, with the switch up from health to gold-equivalent defensive stats on tank items. I did say giving back durability was an option, but it doesn't look like that's the option they'll go for. And knowing their position on reverts in general, they'll intentionally change something besides the stat they messed up.
Slythion (NA)
: A tank's purpose is to provide CC to either disrupt the enemy backline (and provide an opening for allies to kill people) or to protect the ally backline from a similar situation What *you're* thinking of are Juggernauts and/or Divers. While they are durable, they are definitely not Tanks
And the tank update removed the ability for tanks to survive lane phase with the gold to do so. Damage buffs are the only solution short of giving back durability.
: I've had it with people belittling the amount of effort it takes to play tanks
You've simply listed things every player has to think about regardless of their pick. . .
Slythion (NA)
: A tank's purpose is to provide CC to either disrupt the enemy backline (and provide an opening for allies to kill people) or to protect the ally backline from a similar situation What *you're* thinking of are Juggernauts and/or Divers. While they are durable, they are definitely not Tanks
The builds could fool anyone aside from the catered item designed specifically to remove any counter building a tank might have against them.
Slythion (NA)
: you want have more damage? do you know what a tank's purpose _is _ in this game?
CC. That's it. Unfortunately, a tank in this game cannot do the traditional job of a tank in soaking damage, since very few actually force the enemy to attack them.
: ok but only if you give juggs some hard cc
LOL You're always the first to come in with the nonsense. {{champion:122}} Totally doesn't have hard CC, right?
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I don't even get the joke but it made me laugh anyways because I was so sure it'd be citrine
: Where are you getting 44% from? Majority of sites are listing her close to 46%. And considering everything she's always been a champion to be below 50% win rate.
Just because she's always been at 49 doesn't make it okay for her to be so far from the average, and the rate drops as low as 38% against her hardest counter-- which shouldn't be the case for ANY matchup on ANY champion. And the "buff" is just a change to make her as effective as before against tanks, since now that tanks have less HP her Q does less damage against its intended targets.
: On what champ. Different champs have different recomended builds. Even the map matters. Ludens is recomended on rumble in tt but not sr despite being availible on both.
Any champ that suggests Trinity.
Rioter Comments
: literally any ranged top says hello. kayle lissandra teemo (yorick) (xin zhao) this is a terrible case of L2P panth can't spam because he can only use Q uhh, 10 times before running completely oom? seriously kid
He's just complaining since Panth is specifically a lane bully counter.
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