Ulanopo (NA)
: Just a friendly reminder to keep your responses polite and helpful.
> [{quoted}](name=Ulanopo,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mfIbceyR,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:19:45.047+0000) > > Just a friendly reminder to keep your responses polite and helpful. What was it that was not polite?
: Except in extreme cases, players get many chances before being perma-banned. We make every attempt to get people to change their behavior. Yes, we care. However, we know that playing with unsportsmanlike players actually causes a bad experience for our other players. It makes their playtime less enjoyable and leads to more people quitting. How do you feel after playing a game with someone who harasses you, or feeds? Are you keen to play another game right after? > Is this a ploy for people to get another account and invest more money into that account? The opposite. We don't want these players to make new accounts. A perma-ban is our way of exiting a player from the community. We just don't have any way to keep them from coming back.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mfIbceyR,comment-id=0000000000000000000000010000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:18:25.680+0000) > > Except in extreme cases, players get many chances before being perma-banned. We make every attempt to get people to change their behavior. > > Yes, we care. > > However, we know that playing with unsportsmanlike players actually causes a bad experience for our other players. It makes their playtime less enjoyable and leads to more people quitting. How do you feel after playing a game with someone who harasses you, or feeds? Are you keen to play another game right after? > > The opposite. We don't want these players to make new accounts. A perma-ban is our way of exiting a player from the community. We just don't have any way to keep them from coming back. Something this game is frustrating. I'm honestly a nice person outside of this game , but this game is killing me on the inside. I can't just stand people not caring themselves and just honestly not playing poorly but not caring at all espically at rank. You look at text, but not what caused the bad flaming to occur. I feel like thats a biggest injustice. When i got out of my suspension i'm not given being honest like a clean slate to be honest with you. I can't recover my honor as quick as i want. **I can answer your second question ** However, we know that playing with unsportsmanlike players actually causes a bad experience for our other players. It makes their playtime less enjoyable and leads to more people quitting. How do you feel after playing a game with someone who harasses you, or feeds? Are you keen to play another game right after? I play one champion. My main account was DemonluluNA etc. I reached diamond only by this one champion. I want accountability more than anything. When you pick I want players to own that and communicate. When i'm playing something I have people espically right now that play poorly and say its "preseason" to justify their poor behavior. If i play poorly you can blame me and harass me. I understand cause it is my fault and thats how sometime the real world is. Its not cuddle and rainbow sometime we need to feel pain to improve and be better instead of just spamming the report button because can't handle criticism. I personally never flame as hard like an example you let someone steal baron or first blood. Its when you give me an awful performance and instead of communicating decides to afk farm all day and not listen to anyone else essentially trolls. These are type that unfortuntly exist and can't be truthfully as punished vs someone that got tilted from these people. I just don't feel exactly its fair in terms of punishment. I just sometime think game is just too stressful than other games where in call of duty if I die i essentlaly dont screw as hard as in this game where every death makes it HARDER to come back not saying we can't but it just builds in terms of frustration.
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=f7iLOT8a,comment-id=0000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:05:02.928+0000) > > You need to read my comment again. You just repeated everything i said espically with the last sentence. Not really. You said Riot isn't putting time or effort into gameplay troll detection. EDM said they aren't putting a timeline on when improvements will roll out. Simply put: Riot doesn't want to say "We will have troll detection at [insert date]" only to have an incomplete or deeply flawed system triggering false bans on innocent players. That would kill any trust players have and likely tank the game.
> [{quoted}](name=AJStarhiker,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=f7iLOT8a,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:12:03.673+0000) > > Not really. You said Riot isn't putting time or effort into gameplay troll detection. EDM said they aren't putting a timeline on when improvements will roll out. > > Simply put: Riot doesn't want to say "We will have troll detection at [insert date]" only to have an incomplete or deeply flawed system triggering false bans on innocent players. That would kill any trust players have and likely tank the game. I understand where your perspective is , but thats him being political and dodging the question. At the moment I can strongly argue that right NOW that people are being more punished from flaming rather than trolls/intentional feeding.
: Your 14-day ban was from 2018-06-08 to 2018-06-22. If you'd like, I'll post your chatlogs here.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=mfIbceyR,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:10:09.391+0000) > > Your 14-day ban was from 2018-06-08 to 2018-06-22. > > If you'd like, I'll post your chatlogs here. I'm just curious. Its an honest question. Do rioters even care that people account are being permanently banned? Is it really true that statline of 0.006 % are permanently banned? Is this a ploy for people to get another account and invest more money into that account?
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=f7iLOT8a,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2019-01-07T23:56:47.704+0000) > > I personally don't think there is an equal accountability in terms of punishment from people who are toxic vs those that intentionally feed/wintrade. We all know this system can improve in this matter. Riot just can't or wont put the time to address this. They do. They just can't and won't do it in a timeline that is to player satisfaction because it isn't feasible. They are working on it, it's just harder than you grasp
> [{quoted}](name=EvilDustMan,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=f7iLOT8a,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2019-01-08T00:00:51.880+0000) > > They do. They just can't and won't do it in a timeline that is to player satisfaction because it isn't feasible. > > They are working on it, it's just harder than you grasp You need to read my comment again. You just repeated everything i said espically with the last sentence.
: > Get at me Tantram. Hey.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Tantram,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=1UGb0kzc,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-07T23:41:17.015+0000) > > Hey. Any update on rank in the future? Specifically any update regarding accounts being unbanned opportunity Anything being done for those that intentionally feed/wintrader Any would be greatly apperciated
Kei143 (NA)
: These people say all these things but don't really know how the system works. Riot needs educate their players better so they understand how the system actually works and improve the transparency behind it.
> [{quoted}](name=Kei143,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=f7iLOT8a,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2019-01-07T16:11:37.560+0000) > > These people say all these things but don't really know how the system works. > > Riot needs educate their players better so they understand how the system actually works and improve the transparency behind it. I personally don't think there is an equal accountability in terms of punishment from people who are toxic vs those that intentionally feed/wintrade. We all know this system can improve in this matter. Riot just can't or wont put the time to address this.
: One of the Easiest Ways to Turn Games Around
> [{quoted}](name=Totally Not Jinx,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=3cbgqLQP,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-01-06T18:51:23.721+0000) > > It starts with accountability. > > I get it, it's frustrating when your teammates aren't doing well. But believe it or not, a more productive answer to '[Champion] why are you feeding' or any similar sentiment is 'How can I help [lane, champion] do better?' > > I will admit, I am not the best at playing this game. Many of us aren't. But a solid mindset that even professionals will tell you, is to make sure you realise that *you can only control yourself.* > > Bot lane behind for x reasons? See if there's an opportunity to help them. If not, snowball another lane. Don't be an ass to them. > Jungle full of death? Ward safely, avoid chasing kills through there, and communicate your needs. > > There is a reason that pings exist; to communicate effectively in a minimal amount of time. > > I will admit, I am not immune to letting frustration out in-game. It took me a long time to learn that doing so is problematic, and only makes my life worse. So even if I'm tilted, I will do my best despite being angry at my team to figure out what *I* can do. > > Dying a lot? Focus on playing back and staying safe. > Vision down? Place wards any safe place I can. > > Yelling at your teammates, or even questioning their decisions after the fact, sets you up for failure. It's a team game, but for some reason (especially below Gold from my experience) there's this unfortunate mentality that you're the only one who matters. Granted, there are several design elements in the game that make this perception valid. But, since the players can't control Riot, we have to start with someone. And that's ourselves. Answer me this question. I got permanently banned from being frustrated of playing this game. For me Its sickening to watch people not understanding the basics like you mentioned. You mentioned dying a lot primarly because you can argue people dont play that role. As a result 4 other people have to suffer because of this. Where do we draw the line at yelling at our teammates, expectations? A lot of players from my experience are very selfish individual picking master yi , yasuo etc instead of looking at what the team needs. I get angry because people can just go to rank with zero CARE and think its ok to screw other people over. If we complain or just tilt we get punished but not that action that led to it. I want to play a good game just want your opinion on my vent. Its hard to address accountability when others won't even meet you half way and just keep feeding and farming. Its just practice to them and blame its "preseason".
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> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=000300010000,timestamp=2018-12-12T04:16:39.496+0000) > > I agree with you - in part. The OP did not come here for a discussion. He came here to be agreed with and his responses when that didn't happen are indicative of his lack of a desire for a discussio Don't put words thats not true. I like a discussion, but like I said i can't have a constructive criticism with so many people responding. I also can't have a discussion if we can empathize our reasoning. IF you want to talk further like I said my discord is there.
: > You don't allow flaming, but you allow others to play poorly, intentioal feed troll . Playing poorly isn't against the rules. We all have off-games, and some people, plain and simple, aren't great at the game yet. Intentionally feeding, trolling, and flaming however, are all punishable offenses - and they _do_ get punished. > I need you really tell me only thing i can do is waste my time and mute and just report. "Wasting time" is ultimately subjective, and also kind of the goal of videogames, so, that's a moot point. But, yeah - if people are flaming, trolling, whatever, your only options are to mute them, and report them post-game. > You don't solve their issue at all. Your just covering a big band aid for those individuals. If they're breaking the rules, then reporting them isn't a band-aid solution, it's the only reliable way to make them stop - whether it's by having the punishment set them straight, or having them run down the road to an inevitable permanent ban. But if they're just sucking - you flaming them isn't going to magically make them play like a god. As I mentioned before, we all have bad games, and some people haven't developed a strong enough understanding of the game to play it well. Neither of these things are against the rules, and neither of these are things that you can help. If they're having a bad game, all you're doing is reminding them that they're playing poorly, which is only likely to make them play worse. And if they need to learn the game better, they have to learn it at their own pace. Some people may be receptive to _advice_ (advice, not flame), whereas others won't take advice and will learn things on their own. And some people simply may not learn - not improving isn't against the rules either. > I dont want an IFS, bot, RIOTER, to determine anything but we as the people. And thankfully for the community at large, it's not your decision whether or not we rely on the playerbase or an AI for our punishment system. It's Riot's decision, and they chose the route that was the most efficient and most benefited the players - the IFS. > Everyone in this game are going to report someone dosen't mean they are "right". A third view is necessary to prevent that. So, you're saying that the playerbase at large is unreliable/untrustworthy in regards to reports...So you want them to judge and ultimately issue the punishments despite that unreliability/untrustworthiness? That makes no sense. > Do you enjoy being spit at and being disrespected. No, which is why I report people who do that.
> [{quoted}](name=Umbral Regent,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=00070000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T04:08:59.444+0000) > > Playing poorly isn't against the rules. We all have off-games, and some people, plain and simple, aren't great at the game yet. > > Intentionally feeding, trolling, and flaming however, are all punishable offenses - and they _do_ get punished. > > "Wasting time" is ultimately subjective, and also kind of the goal of videogames, so, that's a moot point. > > But, yeah - if people are flaming, trolling, whatever, your only options are to mute them, and report them post-game. > > If they're breaking the rules, then reporting them isn't a band-aid solution, it's the only reliable way to make them stop - whether it's by having the punishment set them straight, or having them run down the road to an inevitable permanent ban. > > But if they're just sucking - you flaming them isn't going to magically make them play like a god. As I mentioned before, we all have bad games, and some people haven't developed a strong enough understanding of the game to play it well. Neither of these things are against the rules, and neither of these are things that you can help. > > If they're having a bad game, all you're doing is reminding them that they're playing poorly, which is only likely to make them play worse. And if they need to learn the game better, they have to learn it at their own pace. Some people may be receptive to _advice_ (advice, not flame), whereas others won't take advice and will learn things on their own. > > And some people simply may not learn - not improving isn't against the rules either. > > And thankfully for the community at large, it's not your decision whether or not we rely on the playerbase or an AI for our punishment system. > > It's Riot's decision, and they chose the route that was the most efficient and most benefited the players - the IFS. > > So, you're saying that the playerbase at large is unreliable/untrustworthy in regards to reports...So you want them to judge and ultimately issue the punishments despite that unreliability/untrustworthiness? > > That makes no sense. > > No, which is why I report people who do that. Join my discord. I can't respond to anymore and the forum is looking messy.
rujitra (NA)
: Then how do other players climb? Why is it that you're the only one being screwed? Why do other players, when they get better, quickly climb to higher ranks?
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=0003000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:27:35.014+0000) > > Then how do other players climb? Why is it that you're the only one being screwed? Why do other players, when they get better, quickly climb to higher ranks? I never said I was the only one being screwed. Many others have been screwed i Just support. Try go into my discord channel to talk since i can't respond 2 this many.
rujitra (NA)
: So everyone higher rank is duoing and the other three players on their team never play bad, but yet the enemy team always plays bad... And you're always the best and you never play bad? Pinnochio nose much? Do you seriously believe the things you're saying, because if so, you're delusional.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:45:06.783+0000) > > So everyone higher rank is duoing and the other three players on their team never play bad, but yet the enemy team always plays bad... And you're always the best and you never play bad? > > Pinnochio nose much? Do you seriously believe the things you're saying, because if so, you're delusional. I posted discord link. I can't respond 2 many people
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=0003000000010000000000000001,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:56:13.483+0000) > > As I said in another reply, you're taking a video game and yourself way too seriously, and you're well on your way to one of the permanent suspensions that you hate so much. > > For your own sake, you should re-evaluate whether this game is for you. It's really not fair to put yourself through this much stress and aggravation for something that's supposed to be entertainment. Too many people I can't respond 2. I posted my discord if you like and we can have a proper discussion.
: As a reformed toxic player, I am going to compare you to ISIS. Being punished by a gaming company for violating a well advertised and published standards of conduct... and then having the audacity to complain about it, is comparable to mass murdering thousands of people for not sharing your beliefs on how to properly praise Mohammed. It's basically the same thing. You're ISIS
> [{quoted}](name=Sexy Man Child,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=000b,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:27:32.461+0000) > > As a reformed toxic player, I am going to compare you to ISIS. Being punished by a gaming company for violating a well advertised and published standards of conduct... and then having the audacity to complain about it, is comparable to mass murdering thousands of people for not sharing your beliefs on how to properly praise Mohammed. It's basically the same thing. You're ISIS WOW you compared me to ISIS. How is that EVEN REMOTELY TRUE? What standard of conduct did I even read, in the beginning, the terms of the agreement? Me saying a different opinion and wanting change even if its unpopular is comparable to a group killing millions? are you nuts?
rujitra (NA)
: So everyone higher rank is duoing and the other three players on their team never play bad, but yet the enemy team always plays bad... And you're always the best and you never play bad? Pinnochio nose much? Do you seriously believe the things you're saying, because if so, you're delusional.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=00020000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:45:06.783+0000) > > So everyone higher rank is duoing and the other three players on their team never play bad, but yet the enemy team always plays bad... And you're always the best and you never play bad? > > Pinnochio nose much? Do you seriously believe the things you're saying, because if so, you're delusional. I'm responding to so many people. If you like we can talk. Would you like to skype?
: > There is a ladder in terms of punishment. chat restriction going into suspension then into permaban. I'm aware of the punishment ladder, but your OP specifically says "tiers". And the only thing I know that has tiers that Riot's adding more of is the Ranked ladder. If that's not what you meant, you should clarify. > If we voice frustration then we get punished without any context. You can flame and tilt, but you won't be able to look at what caused the tilt. This is important to see whether there is degree of fairness of why this person flamed. Flaming is still flaming, no matter which way you cut it. It doesn't matter if they're the instigator, or if they're just a counterflamer - flaming isn't allowed, period. No amount of context can justify flaming. > I have had many people when both people angry or pissed just report each other and just hope they get banned etc. IF both side caused the issue then they should be both accountable this can be option added. If person A and person B both report each other, both having committed offenses, both will be punished appropriately. If person A and person B both commit offenses, but only person B reports A, but player C, who didn't participate in the flamewar, reports both players, then both players get punished appropriately. They're held accountable so long as they're reported. If nobody reports them, then that's an indicator that whatever they did was apparently not an issue to whoever was around to witness it. > There is no reward for this just your time for others. Then nobody's going to do it. It's human nature to avoid situations of all-give, no-gain. Which is _exactly_ why the Tribunal was iceboxed indefinitely. No reward meant no incentive for people to participate, which meant nobody participated, and the Tribunal was made effectively useless since nobody was using it. > The plaintaiff can write a plea in terms of what happened. The people that view up to seven people can have the option of voting or not. Majority decides whether he gets punished or not. Or, the reporter (the plaintiff) can file a report, have the IFS review it, and have a punishment issued without other player input. That way, there's no subjectivity, no wasted reports, and no need to incentivize an undesirable system. In other words; we can stick with what we've got, 'cause it works ten times better than what you're suggesting. > There is an additional option of voting for other players that were also involved in the incident. A player should not have their behavior reviewed unless they were reported. Full stop. > We only looked at chat , which only provided one perspective when we don't get to see how everyone played. Again; _**It doesn't matter how anyone played, or how anyone else behaved. Flaming is against the rules. No context can justify flaming.**_
You don't allow flaming, but you allow others to play poorly, intentioal feed troll . I need you really tell me only thing i can do is waste my time and mute and just report. You don't solve their issue at all. Your just covering a big band aid for those individuals. I dont want an IFS, bot, RIOTER, to determine anything but we as the people. I just want demoracy instead of everything based on report and a bot. Everyone in this game are going to report someone dosen't mean they are "right". A third view is necessary to prevent that. A game can be competitive and have people held accountable otherwise how else do you change behavior. Do you enjoy being spit at and being disrespected. Maybe it a cultural thing
rujitra (NA)
: So everyone higher rank than you is just lucky? Lol no.
> [{quoted}](name=rujitra,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=000200000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:26:47.435+0000) > > So everyone higher rank than you is just lucky? > > Lol no. Absolutly not. They just duo with others while I'm reliant on others from my role. Get real. Btw I do my best job doing this role. Very underappreciated.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=GatekeeperTDS,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=OZARoiNA,comment-id=00030000000100000000,timestamp=2018-12-12T03:12:01.352+0000) > > Dude, you're still on this. Please give it up. > > Someone being bad at the game doesn't give you the right to be negative or toxic. > > Someone being a jerk in chat doesn't give you the right to be negative or toxic. > > Someone disagreeing with your calls and not obeying your every command doesn't give you the right to be negative or toxic. > > Someone legitimately running down mid doesn't give you the right to be negative or toxic. > > You're looking at this in a very narrow corridor - It's not just you and the one person (or more) pissing you off. It's the other 2-8 people in the game who don't want to hear two people going at it for whatever reason. That's why you get punished, regardless of the context or circumstances, because the collateral damage **is not acceptable**. You've now affected multiple other people who have nothing to do with the pissing contest that you decided to have with someone else. > > You say you can't have fun because people don't want to win. I say that the other people in your games can't have fun because you want to "win" but have no clear win condition in your mind other than you are good and your team is garbage. Ranked games are not **meant** to be stressful. A little bit of competitive stress is cool. Stress caused by raging, flaming egos just pisses in the Cheerios of everyone in the game. where do I start. lets start that its not ACCEPTABLE period of being bad, jerk running down the middle period. I DIDN'T even SIGN up to play with these type of people but the problem lies is accountability. Nothing STOPS them from doing this. Look at my LAST GAME in which I WON from a person intentioanlly feeding. Be the judge and tell me that I did poorly or my skill wasnt damn proper. I told them this was unacceptable they listen and we rallied BACK to win with the only exception is the swain that I had. my jungler shaco was just SMART of just not talking and not tilting even though he kept pinging the hell out of that swain. PERIOD Im playing RANK we are suppose or wanting to WIN. otherwise what the damn differnce between normal vs rank other than perspective. EVEN A RIOT employee got tilted because of other poor behavior. How can i have a fun game or even a good game in general when others follow that vision off wanting to win. Its damn embrassing. Also i didn't all chat at all during that game only that swain claiming EZ. However you wouldn't even know who to blame besides me since i'm the one complaining and wanting the change. Go ahead look at that swain vs me(lulu) shaco and vayne. the victor has internet issue which he never even said until the very end.
: ***
2) the tribunal only looks at chat. A replay can give you the entire GAME that you can look similar to spectate.guys toxicity does not occur by itself. Yes there are very few that are miserable in life etc. However, I would rather have someone thats toxic and want to win vs those that don't care at all. We all deserve to play a rank game that competitive, but where do we draw the line of "toxicity" , If I voiced my frustration why should I be punished. Rank games are meant to be stressful as long as they don't get out of line, but who judges our punishment at the end is from a bot from typing. A replay can give the player to option anyone and can look those that are trolling running it down the middle. This will prevent others from displaying poor behavior themselves. The only reason why its not because people are toxic arguably are judged a lot harsher than other punishment. I can't have fun man when people just don't want to win. Also if intentionally feed in this game then they should play normal before they the right to come back 2 rank as a punishment.
rujitra (NA)
: If you want matched with better players, improve your skill.
I can't improve "SKILL" when i'm dependent on others. Their SKILLS matter too. its a team game after all. I can do the best I can, but it will not translate to wins. I can have my adc really fed, but its take the other 4 to their part. Its much harder than that/
: I main support and I'm dependent on others. Just look at my op.gg and see all the games I had. I main support and have to deal with people feeding not because they were doing on purpose but they zero understanding of either their champ/role. It's not fair to me to try when aren't being held to the standard.
I never fed and i tried my hardest every game. I'm just frustrated of how others are playing and not caring.
rujitra (NA)
: Then you need to play a single player game if you're unwilling to accept your teams will sometimes be better than others. Or, you need to improve your skill to get better players matched with you. But you will still lose, on average, 50% of your games. That's how it works.
I main support and I'm dependent on others. Just look at my op.gg and see all the games I had. I main support and have to deal with people feeding not because they were doing on purpose but they zero understanding of either their champ/role. It's not fair to me to try when aren't being held to the standard.
rujitra (NA)
: Exactly. You can't. And people who are just bad will not be punished. Their punishment is being low rank. Maybe if you wanted to be higher rank you could improve your skill?
I can't climb when im dependent on others in this game. Imagine i have a boat and i'm trying to lets say get to diamond. However each game there are people poking holes at your boat while you try your best of what you can do in the game. Its takes all 5 to win this game one person is all its take to lose as well. I dont mind losing hard games however, but games in which you don't how to play the champ or the role I shouldn't have to be burdened with.
rujitra (NA)
: Well yeah, if you're being an asshole to them and making them feel bad it's definitely not going to **help** their mental state and make them play better.
What i'm trying to imply is that they won't change at all even i have said nothing. I had game where i said nothing ,but the person keep doing the same thing and it sucks i have 2 waste time and lp for this.
rujitra (NA)
: There's a **very** small percentage who share your sentiments. The vast majority of players understand why both of your ideas would not work. The vast majority of players argue against both of those ideas whenever someone like you suggests them while obviously not having done your research. In what way is the current system not holding players accountable for their actions?
If someone feeds how do you determine its poor gameplay vs someone running down the middle. The answer is you can't. What happens if I had a person who trolled me and followed me everywhere and stole my jungle camp. I just went off and told him to screw himself etc (a lot of bad word being said). The bot will detect my negative behavior while he can't be detected essentially. Even if he had smite as a support it wont be detected as troll or anything. I'm not trying to defend my behavior its just hard to be postive or mute when everything i cares about just dies all because of other people selfish actions.
: > I would like permanent ban accounts to be gone and only have chat restriction and suspension only. Permanent bans are a suspension - the indefinite suspension of the account. Doesn't really make sense to say you don't want permanent bans only to turn around and say you want to keep the punishment variety. Besides, permanent bans are here to stay, no matter how many people ask to be rid of it. If people can't be bothered to play by the rules, Riot can't be bothered to have them playing at all. > I would like a replay system for those that got suspended and have other people that play league in the community to judge whether they deserve it. This allows context and the ability to punish even others for falsely reporting incorrectly. First of all - double-negatives. "Falsely reporting incorrectly" doesn't make sense. Second; even if we _did_ have the ability to view replays, that wouldn't change chat-based punishments, and on top of that, we would only be able to vote on whether or not the reported player deserved punishment - not whether or not the report_ing_ player should be punished instead. Third; player-based peer reviewing was done in the past, to almost hilariously unsatisfactory results. It was either incentivized with a reward, and consequently people would just spam "punish" to get the rewards, or it wasn't incentivized, and nobody would use it, and it would build up a back-log - resulting in punishments handed out for offenses long-since passed. All told; that's not an idea that's going to be brought about, either. > All I want is RIOT to listen to our needs and implement instead of ignoring us is all with unnecessary things like adding additional teirs. Additional tiers - you mean to the Ranked ladder? You realize the Ranked system and the behavior systems are handled by two separate teams, right? Which means that they can both be worked on simultaneously and independent of one another. Beyond that, you assume that what you _want_ is what the community _needs_. It isn't.
There is a ladder in terms of punishment. chat restriction going into suspension then into permaban. If we voice frustration then we get punished without any context. You can flame and tilt, but you won't be able to look at what caused the tilt. This is important to see whether there is degree of fairness of why this person flamed. I have had many people when both people angry or pissed just report each other and just hope they get banned etc. IF both side caused the issue then they should be both accountable this can be option added. There is no reward for this just your time for others. The plaintaiff can write a plea in terms of what happened. The people that view up to seven people can have the option of voting or not. Majority decides whether he gets punished or not. There is an additional option of voting for other players that were also involved in the incident. We only looked at chat , which only provided one perspective when we don't get to see how everyone played. Also to add i'm just disappointed that the rank team not player behavior team decided to only add teirs when they should be looking at bigger issues.
rujitra (NA)
: So, you think someone should be punished just because they don't win every game, and you should be allowed to flame them when they don't win just because you think it's "intentional"? No. This will never happen. Poor gameplay will **never** be punished unless it can be proven to be **intentionally not trying their best**. If you want to be matched with better players, **improve your own skill**. Lastly, **someone else's behavior will never, replay or not, justify you being toxic**.
Look at my above remarks. I don't mind losing tough games, but I do not accept like many others game that are out of ones control. you should be able to voice your frustration if others are playing well. look from a different perspective of someone coming into like a rank game play a champ they don't know or even a role and being a burden for others. There is nothing stopping this and they can get away because it was poor gameplay when argubly they had no experience at all in the beginning. A replay would be nice only for suspended account. I'm not saying you will no go unpunished maybe like play normals for a while something like that but a ban is excessive for everyone. Just look at the game and you be the judge of whether that indivdiaul should be judged for flaming. There is a degree of flaming such as balatent racism and kys vs voicing frustration. Thats all i ask.
Firu (NA)
: I play the same game. I have the same things happen to me. I also have things happen to me in my life. Yet I don't respond by being toxic in chat or trolling in game. We don't let the bot decide. People reported you because they wanted you punished. Your peers in the game felt you were deserving of punishment. The Riot systems just dole out the punishment. And you know what? Sometimes it doesn't punish you. You're only aware of when the systems says its time to be punished, not all the times it throws out erroneous reports regarding you.
I had an 1/11 swain report me for toxicity when I could have done the same for intentional feeding. Yet a bot decide my fate while he goes off not unpunished but not held to the same standard. I don't mind losing tough games, but its ideally HARD to stay patient and postive espically at the state of the preseason rank.
Punctual (NA)
: So it justifies you flaming them? If someone crashes into your car, do you get out and start hitting them with a bat? No, you handle it civilly. Same in-game, just because someone feeds doesn't mean you have to point it out. They have tilted already, might as well just not talk and play the game.
it doesn't justify ruining the game for others. What's wrong is that they are free to go while you are punished. I'm not saying violence is the answer, but you would be angry too if someone rammed your car right? I only point it out if its like blatent. I never get toxic when its like 40min game, first blood cause it happens, missed smite. Its not fair when your learning your mistakes and just keep doing making it harder for others. You overjudge toxicity way to the right.
Firu (NA)
: I would like Riot to fix the boards so that it isn't inundated with people complaining about being unfairly punished because they don't realize they were toxic in chat.
guys toxicity does not occur by itself. Yes there are very few that are miserable in life etc. However, I would rather have someone thats toxic and want to win vs those that don't care at all. We all deserve to play a rank game that compeptive, but where do we draw the line of "toxicity" , If i voiced my frustration why should I be punished when that player really is the reason. Do we let those that intentionally feed go off unpunished because they are having a bad game as an excuse. Why should everyone lose LP for one person inability to their respectivly job. I'm venting,but we let a BOT decide who get punished. Its better for us as human to decide like any civil society to judge upon others. Is that not fair?
: Lets say i get a brand new car. I can't stop other players(cars) from crashing into mine if even I did drive carefully. The worst part is other players are playing without any care or consideration for others but are not held to the same standard to those that do. I'm trying to address the state of the game and what needs to be changed. Having a camera at least can give people whos at fault same should be applied to game.
Its so hard not raging at this game unlike other games. I just want people to own their roles and do their best. This is even during rank so I'm lost in terms of just having to endure the emotional/mental suffering.
Punctual (NA)
: If you value your account, you would do your best to not get it permanently banned. Let's say you get a brand new car and you value it. You wouldn't want to crash it and you would drive carefully. These are similar because both are materialistic. I truly believe it's possible to control yourself.
Lets say i get a brand new car. I can't stop other players(cars) from crashing into mine if even I did drive carefully. The worst part is other players are playing without any care or consideration for others but are not held to the same standard to those that do. I'm trying to address the state of the game and what needs to be changed. Having a camera at least can give people whos at fault same should be applied to game.
: ***
Worse. I called them out on their poor play and they are like thats why im 0/4 in 8 minutes.
: ***
There are many in players behavior section that share the same sentiment. All we ask is accountability. If you have nothing to offer then I truly feel sorry for you. Instead of just shoving me off tell me what's wrong or something that RIOT can improve on.
: Need less lenience on people to be chat restricted, temporarily banned, and permanantly ban. It's way too easy to not get banned.
I agree. I had games where players feed and I voiced my displeasure. they immeadly told me I was toxic, which shows a lack of accountability. I also hated it when they justify their poor gameplay from my toxicity. its so cruel and having a replay like this is the only thing that can save you from ban if people can look at the entire game.
Rioter Comments
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gEGfwh84,comment-id=0001000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-06T16:24:08.927+0000) > > PLAY A RANK GAME WHERE A PERSON gives up first blood and keep repeating instead of csing. I never mention control, but I expect you to have the basic concept when you play this game. I expect PINGS, wards things that are CRITICAL as you go higher, but can't . I'm going to enlighten you, but many people got to their respective elo by playing only certain roles/ champs. As they branch out and learn other roles in rank they can't play respectivly the same level that got them there which is why people are frustrated. Its mentally taxing finding people not caring or wanting to win in rank , but trying to experiment. You are delusional. I've played thousands of ranked games. Everyone has run into players who do poorly, sometimes inconceivably poorly. **NO MATTER HOW POORLY SOMEONE PLAYS, THAT DOES NOT GIVE YOU LICENSE TO HARASS OR BERATE THEM.**
Neither the RIGHT TO MENTALLY/EMOTIONALLY screw someone over because of their poor behavior and immaturity. Get over yourself
rujitra (NA)
: See, it's funny. you say these things, but data shows that the opposite is true. Most players couldn't care less about win or lose. They do care about having fun and everyone being respectful and having dignity, even in defeat. Unless you have data to support your claims, I'll stick with the data we do have, namely millions of players of tribunal data and surveys.
I never mention data, but mine is through personal experience. I have had games where people also mention the same thing to me in games. They don't find it right to carry someone that dosen't know their role/champion. Normals please do whatever you wish. I personally couldn't care less, but in RANK. Try to RESPECT others and have a standard a game is supposed to be played. I dont mind losing a 40 minute game i can embrace that. I will not accept someone not understanding their roles/ champion and making life harder for others. I want a REPLAY. I want riot to SEE the full picture instead of looking at text only. Only then we can incorporate proper justice for not only that affected individual, but for everyone.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gEGfwh84,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T22:09:54.303+0000) > > I don't care about premade. When you play solo que and duo que just do your respective job and how you carry that position. I don't know why you keep mentioning premade? whats wrong with your head? I keep mentioning premade because you seem to have trouble getting it through your head that YOU DON'T GET TO CONTROL YOUR TEAMMATES. They are statistically just as effective at winning as you are, and they likely got there doing the things they're doing in the game you happen to play with them. At least a premade team will know that you intend to be a whiny complainer all game long before they queue up with you and won't report you (maybe).
PLAY A RANK GAME WHERE A PERSON gives up first blood and keep repeating instead of csing. I never mention control, but I expect you to have the basic concept when you play this game. I expect PINGS, wards things that are CRITICAL as you go higher, but can't . I'm going to enlighten you, but many people got to their respective elo by playing only certain roles/ champs. As they branch out and learn other roles in rank they can't play respectivly the same level that got them there which is why people are frustrated. Its mentally taxing finding people not caring or wanting to win in rank , but trying to experiment. You are delusional.
: "I had an Amumu on my team in my ranked game "M4xGod" and when I went 3/14/8 he just decided to call me out. I respectfully said "chill out" and he proceeded to tell everyone to report me." your "just a game" is in normals. dont play ranked thank you
I agree with this. The kid decided to be a burden to the rest of the teammates and make their life miserable. He further insults them by saying its a "game". A game that people want to win in RANK not even normal, but RANK. I wouldnt even blame the rest of the teammates for being toxic. Why are you playing a champion you can't even play and a role that you haven't mastered? Furthermore doing that in rank?. Your behavior goes unpunished which is really sad. Also, you quickly blame people for making you play worse when in fact that can't be plausible since you never even play the champion at all with proficiency. These players are why people are frustrated when they play rank and lead to toxicity.
rujitra (NA)
: The tribunal did not take context into account. In virtually all cases, tribunal voters voted to punish regardless of "context" or provocation. The vast majority of League players think toxicity is not ever okay. Not even when you're tilted.
The vast majority of league players do not want to play bad games. I honestly don't care about toxicity as long as its justified. I don't want to play a game in which a person is feeding and not caring his /her fellow teammates. Its just disrespectful in my eyes when I see this. All i want is a replay where i can look at the game instead of chat and see whether its justfied. It brings a sense of ACCOUNTABILITY. If our accounts are to be banned/suspended then we humbly ask a fair look instead of only looking at one side of the mirror (aka chat).
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eHGdgA3h,comment-id=0050000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T22:14:02.504+0000) > > We can't contest ANYTHING period. If toxicity is the most common infraction maybe you should understand why people are toxic and differentiate on the reasoning. You took away tribunal and let a BOT decide our fate. Congrulation. The IFS was built in part with information gathered from the Tribunal, so everything that gets punished now would have gotten punished back then too. I should know as I participated in the Tribunal myself and a lot of the stuff I see on the boards these days I voted to punish back then as well. Also, some punishments have been overturned or even reduced in the past, so while it's extremely rare it can happen. Finally if by reasoning you mean the most common excuses of "they started it/were behaving worse/said/did something I didn't like" I've seen it all before, and that's all they are, excuses to try to justify poor behavior. At the end of the day it's up to the players themselves to work on controlling their behavior and not be baited in by trolls and griefers (who do also get punished) or face the consequences if they can't or won't (easier said than done I know but still though). P.S. I don't work for Riot, I'm simply a volunteer boards mod and a LoL player as well.
All I want is a replay. A replay which is defined as a video. This gave the league community better insight than looking at chat only. Why is this so hard for RIOT to incoporate this? YOu blame toxicity for poor behavior, but you have to factor mostly what causes this poor behavior. Riot inability to incoporate standards to how a rank game should be played cause a lot of people to play poorly. THis is not only myself but a theme in the player behavior forum. Also poor selfish behavior often causes frustration whether its due to chat or not. I have never seen anyone who voiced their frustration got their ban overturned. The only way is if you never played and RIOT thought you were a bot. There is no option for a hearing. which is also quite asinine. If players report falsely during the suspension they should all be judged by the community and held to the same standard. We have asked previously asked for games in which if person leave within 5 minutes nobody should LP. Its not hard for a billion dollar company to incoporate a replay feature.
Hotarµ (NA)
: It sucks that you got trolled like that, but there's no excuse to resort to hate speech. Even if it was just a slip up, homophobic or racist comments are never acceptable and you need to accept the punishment that was given to you. The best course of action was to just ignore the Nunu as best you could and report him at the end of the game. Asking for reports doesn't increase the likelyhood of them being banned. You flaming them doesn't do anything but escalate the situation. On the bright side, you still have your account at the end of the punishment. I would just recommend playing only with 5-man teams and disabling all chat. Alternatively, don't talk at all because your next punishment **will* be a permanent ban.
It does when people waste your time. They can get away with it.
: It's too bad that Riot has nothing in place to support reform from major punishments like permabans. You'd think so, considering they encourage players making a second account to play again. Even if it's something like "If your banned account is linked to the same email as your new account, show your honor and remain above honor level 1 to receive content from your banned account." That seems like a better idea than merely giving people access to their banned accounts again, and it requires people to stay positive and honorable if they want access to lost content. That supports reform over the long-term, not just "Ok here's your permabanned account back".
Riot has done nothing including the balance in this game. There are many good and suggestive ideas in this forum, but RIot so far has taken none of your recommendations, but to instead add an Iron tier/ other useless things in their latest update video. The company is an embarrassment.
: bc it was slower than molasses and had a larger percentage of false results
All i ask is a REPLAY. We can see that game instead of the chat itself. THis will give better insight than rather looking at chat specifically and make better judgement. Isn't hard for RIOT to find a way to incoporate this.
rujitra (NA)
: The current system is faster and more consistent than tribunal. While also using tribunal punishments as a guide as to who is punished now.
Consistent in that it lets a bot scan all the naughty word instead of looking at context to why players are furstrated. Are you really contemplating a BOT is smarter than a human being. A replay isn't enough to look at that everyone can see and determine. Its not hard for RIOT to even use this. I don't want to look at chat, but how that chat occured from other players . Do you understand?
: Tip: Structure your post so its not just a brick of text. if you type a line of -'s it creates this effect. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Press enter twice between paragraphs to create space between thoughts. **Title: ** Title your sections and make the titles bold so they stand out.
I'm new to this forum. I wanted to give you an image, but i suck at even doing that. Duely noted.
Prandine (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=eHGdgA3h,comment-id=00500000,timestamp=2018-12-01T01:57:00.992+0000) > > player that said something toxic - BAN/chat restrict **If it's consistent/egregious yes.** > Player- your intentionally feeding - Its oK **Not okay, but intent to int has to be proven first after it's reported.** > player- your having a bad game and want to report that meanie over there that want to win- We'll take care of him. **If nothing of guilt is found then nothing happens.** > player- your trolling by building tear stacks- Its ok **Not okay.** > RIOT priorites EVERYBODY ENJOY!! Comments in bold. Also, PB commonly gets complaints regarding chat since: 1) It's the most common infraction. 2) More often than not the players banned for things like inting and trolling already know what they did wrong and thus have no need to try to contest the ban.
We can't contest ANYTHING period. If toxicity is the most common infraction maybe you should understand why people are toxic and differentiate on the reasoning. You took away tribunal and let a BOT decide our fate. Congrulation.
Subdue (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DespicableCee,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=gEGfwh84,comment-id=000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-12-01T00:59:32.529+0000) > > LMAO wild turtle at LEAST has people that want to win and people that want to either maintain or climb up in their ladder. Losing hurts them more than winning in order for them to be even be considered to be picked up by LCS. They lose a lot of Lp and gain very little the higher you go. Also they at least know the fundamental of how to play their lane or champion. Not even wild turtle can master riven/yasuo. It takes Practice and unfortuntly hes not a challenger "level" when he plays other roles beside his adc. Problem is the attitude in this game. How do you differentiate playing poorly vs Intentional feeding and honestly it's not really that different. If you play poorly, the fault is entirely on you unless you get camped. If you lose your lane solo and one KILL is all you need at top maybe you need to look in a mirror and play normal instead of burdening the rest of us. My games are i lost my lane i'm going to keep feeding. That champion that is fed goes to other lane and win. GG . Play a rank game since its "preseason" and you will see a lot of people share my pain and frustration. I'm not saying like one mistake and i'll be toxic like some other people, but the inability to correct your mistake and not giving me the respective chance to come back is what mentally drains many people and make this game insufferable.. I strongly encourage playing a solo que heck a support role by yourself for 10 games . Then come back to me if you have a differing opinion. Don't look at me Better yet this whole forum in the player behavior section are sharing my theme. Well I agree that the problem is with attitude - yours. Again, if playing solo queue causes you to lose all semblance of human decency, don't play solo queue. The option to form 5 man premades with likeminded individuals is there so people like you don't have to deal with the performance of people you don't like, and they don't have to deal with you. Although, I'd be willing to bet if you treated your premades the same way you treat the people in solo queue, they wouldn't be your premades for very long.
I don't care about premade. When you play solo que and duo que just do your respective job and how you carry that position. I don't know why you keep mentioning premade? whats wrong with your head?
Kawaiboi (NA)
: Not even ranked, and now I'm not allowed to play what I like? I was trying to win until I was being flamed at in chat. So I just left my adc and went to another lane. The match wasn't even today.
Like everyone else you must have had done something prior to this one. Regardless of rank don't waste people time and tilting them. If you want to fool around make a premade team of yourself to prevent the issue in the future.
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DespicableCee

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