Rioter Comments
: Also it doesn’t matter. Unless you perfectly use your relic procs on cannons/melees, you _might_ get the same amount of gold as just building coin.
> [{quoted}](name=Disembark,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nq4pHY8T,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-17T08:59:01.170+0000) > > Also it doesn’t matter. Unless you perfectly use your relic procs on cannons/melees, you _might_ get the same amount of gold as just building coin. I know. Especially later in the game, when you will never do enough damage to kill any creeps. I play support as secondary. I gave up using it on champs like Thresh. You MIGHT get an ADC that will let you get them in lane but tough luck later when people are spamming down the waves. Just when you are an ADC, and you have something like a Rakan trying to proc his relic shield and missing melees and cannons left and right, its really annoying. Also it takes forever to get it finished.
: I'm sure this happens to you in every game in which you role adc. It's also a major problem that minion waves are finite and that CS is so limited in the game. If only more minions would spawn wave after wave infinitely until the game ended. The struggles bro. - Me as a support. I have never seen any ADC ever miss a cannon or any creep - ever. I mean, if ADC's missed CS regularly I bet it would be talked about more and they would make huge reddit posts about how important farming is. But everyone is perfect in this game, so that would never happen. But on Relic Shield, I will make sure to always build FQC when matched up with you and take ignite as Thresh or Rakan. You don't seem to need or want that healing or shield from Relic. So full AP Thresh/Rakan will be my build. And when I flash - hook/dash - ignite while securing the kill from you. Please don't flame me for taking your attempted kill or gold. I mean, obviously, you don't need it. You have that perfect CS score - since I haven't touched your minions once. So really... I need the kill more than you. If that doesn't make you happy. I don't know what will. I'm just trying to support you bro and make you happy. I can also play Pyke on release and never let you get a kill ever. I'll just share my gold with you on ult resets. Because that's all you seem to care about. And Riot understands this. Keep farming and stay rich bro.
> [{quoted}](name=Wolf and Gun,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nq4pHY8T,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-17T06:36:30.743+0000) > > I'm sure this happens to you in every game in which you role adc. It's also a major problem that minion waves are finite and that CS is so limited in the game. If only more minions would spawn wave after wave infinitely until the game ended. The struggles bro. > > - Me as a support. I have never seen any ADC ever miss a cannon or any creep - ever. I mean, if ADC's missed CS regularly I bet it would be talked about more and they would make huge reddit posts about how important farming is. But everyone is perfect in this game, so that would never happen. > > But on Relic Shield, I will make sure to always build FQC when matched up with you and take ignite as Thresh or Rakan. > > You don't seem to need or want that healing or shield from Relic. So full AP Thresh/Rakan will be my build. And when I flash - hook/dash - ignite while securing the kill from you. Please don't flame me for taking your attempted kill or gold. I mean, obviously, you don't need it. You have that perfect CS score - since I haven't touched your minions once. So really... I need the kill more than you. > > If that doesn't make you happy. I don't know what will. I'm just trying to support you bro and make you happy. > > I can also play Pyke on release and never let you get a kill ever. > I'll just share my gold with you on ult resets. > Because that's all you seem to care about. > And Riot understands this. > Keep farming and stay rich bro. Most people who pick relic on those champs cannot cs with it. They also, cannot proc it. If you are gonna pick relic on ranged supports, you better practice last hitting creeps so you dont cause the lane to miss the first 3 cannons and untold amounts of melee creeps.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: Master Tier placed in silver on new acct results
Looks like you are trying to play botlane in low elo. Jokes on you. There was a vid I watched once from a master player who smurfs/boosts. His first rule was never play botlane in low elo. Here it is. 40 seconds in. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s3ryVF1A5Uc&t= People wanna cry about op ADCs and OP supports, but its still a duo lane, and you have a hard time solo punishing a lane by yourself. Meaning, the game becomes a crap shoot since you cant push an early advantage. Basically, you are at the whim of the other person, for better or worse. EDIT: I had the wrong vid. Fixed it.
DNFVixen (NA)
: @Riot I dare you to post how many players are currently active IN THE LAST MONTH
You know, I play a lot games. A lot of games, with Queue's. I know its not scientific, but the difference in how fast a Q pops for anything in league compared to all of them are night and day. Even Overwatch, I'll sit in a damn Q for 5+ minutes. A lot of people stil play league.
Rioter Comments
: [RANT] Stop losing on Difficult Champions while hating Simpler Champions
Honestly, you dont have to play champs optimally. Like Lee Sin. He has the potential to do crazy things. Pull off crazy plays. But you can have a lot of success with him by just taking lower risk plays. You dont have to Q a minion, ward hop, kick-flash some ADC from 400 miles away. You dont even have to kick flash. You know how many kick-flashes I see messed up when a Flash kick would work 99% of the time in the same situation? I mean just landing a Q on someone and slowing them with E is enough a lot of times.
: Is there a way to stop getting plats and diamonds against me in normals when I'm basically bronze
I like facing them when they are against me, in my lane/matchup. Then, I am in control of my own destiny and get to see how I match up. I hate when they are in another lane, or jungling, and completely destroy the game and I cant even try to do anything about it.
: And what if said push is nearly to an exposed inhibitor? Because it would mean that they'd be trading baron for an inhibitor minimum and possibly even more of their base, automatically forcing at least 2 members of their team to recall while creating pressure by adding super minions.
> [{quoted}](name=Busty Demoness,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2M3WrEu,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-14T07:41:00.620+0000) > > And what if said push is nearly to an exposed inhibitor? Because it would mean that they'd be trading baron for an inhibitor minimum and possibly even more of their base, automatically forcing at least 2 members of their team to recall while creating pressure by adding super minions. I said they went bot for CS. As in, the wave is at the river at best. This happens all the time. People see 10-15 cs, and they have to go get it. Baron be damned. So course its the JG/ADC/Sup who goes. In my elo, even the damn supports go to get that 10cs. You know the scenario. Its 30+ minutes into the game. There is 1-2 waves around river bot. There goes the ADC! Sometimes the support goes with him, to get that CS cause they think they always have to be farming or doing something.
: Shen does not care what you would like.
> [{quoted}](name=Irelia Bot,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=A2M3WrEu,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-14T07:34:01.897+0000) > > Shen does not care what you would like. You know what I meant. TP is fine. Shen is fine. No, its the damn jungler, or evne the ADC/Sup, who just decide they need that 10 cs. Have no way of getting back.
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: The problem with graves
Id rather face Graves than a lot of the other junglers, like Kha. Graves takes some kind of mechanics, his ganks are pretty shit. A smoke screen slow isn't amazing, hes not invisible or sneaky or anything. He just scales like a monster. But Id rather deal with that then getting 1 shot from stealth any day of the week.
Velivolo (NA)
: Troll Supports Burn in Hell
I go support Ezreal and do most dmg in the game, every game. Get on my level.
HàrrowR (EUW)
: Why were you down voted for saying something that's so true you can just look at top tier picks at those seasons where crit was more expensive,they were all Utility adcs {{champion:22}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:429}} or Lethality {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:236}} since literally getting 1 item on them meant you could blow up an enemy adc,so why bother rushing crit
> [{quoted}](name=HàrrowR,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiQ2l7HW,comment-id=000100010000,timestamp=2018-05-10T15:06:08.450+0000) > > Why were you down voted for saying something that's so true you can just look at top tier picks at those seasons where crit was more expensive,they were all Utility adcs {{champion:22}} {{champion:110}} {{champion:429}} or Lethality {{champion:202}} {{champion:21}} {{champion:119}} {{champion:236}} since literally getting 1 item on them meant you could blow up an enemy adc,so why bother rushing crit Because people either didn't play then, or they didnt realize it, or they just flat out hate ADCs. Even when ADCs are weak, even if its a damn Ashe, if someone dies to an ADC kiting them out they will come to this forum and whine about it. They will run at the adc, probably waste their gap closer getting there, get kited out late game, come straight to the forums to cry about how easy right clicking is. Thats just what people here do.
Jbels (NA)
: Late game never exists because bot lane has been popping off WAY too early due to jungler influence and Support Gold Value. If Crit becomes a lategame stat, we'll start to see late games happening again. The only problem with that is, Assassins just got Stormrazor. Better ban Rengar
> [{quoted}](name=Jbels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=PiQ2l7HW,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-10T04:14:01.289+0000) > > Late game never exists because bot lane has been popping off WAY too early due to jungler influence and Support Gold Value. If Crit becomes a lategame stat, we'll start to see late games happening again. The only problem with that is, Assassins just got Stormrazor. Better ban Rengar No, it'll be like it was before when crit scaled too slow. Utility ADCs and champs who spike off 2 cheap items will become the meta. Before, when crit was scaling way too slow, the meta was nothing but 1-2 item lethality users and utility ADCs. I can see the On-hit ADCs being even stronger, and utility ADCs maybe coming back if it ends up like that season. Why play something that takes 3 items to even become relevant when you can play one of the on-hit rageblade users who can spike at 2, and actually be useful before 30 minutes. Same with utility ADCs.
Chermorg (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DotEleven,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AKkIPgAj,comment-id=00010000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-10T01:29:15.537+0000) > > They're not goign to ban you for asking for reports, but they will chat restrict you. Actually, it's not possible to be **punished** at all if all you do is say "report X". It **IS** punishable (with chat restriction **or** ban) for using "report X" as part of harassing someone else. And bans are not "checked" - virtually all punishments now are fully done by the automated Instant Feedback System.
> [{quoted}](name=Chermorg,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=AKkIPgAj,comment-id=000100000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-10T01:38:54.580+0000) > > Actually, it's not possible to be **punished** at all if all you do is say "report X". > > It **IS** punishable (with chat restriction **or** ban) for using "report X" as part of harassing someone else. > > And bans are not "checked" - virtually all punishments now are fully done by the automated Instant Feedback System. Almost every single time, "report X" is used to harass/strongarm someone. And it should be punished, because it is almost solely used as a form of harassment. There is no reason for you to pander for reports. None. The only reason people do it, is to be toxic to another person. What do you gain by pandering for reports, except to further make the guy mad, to flame him for making bad plays, or to make the guy quit/whatever? There is no need in pandering for them, and it should be punished as a form of harassment.
: What content other than League do you watch on Twitch
I watch league, even when Im not playing it. LCS and such. Sometimes even streams. I do like to watch Trick2g just because he's entertaining. I prefer to watch entertaining streams over high skill ones. Sometimes, I might watch a pro player if they are playing a champ I want to learn/play. Outside of that, i watch whatever game im currently into. Be i a mobile game, an RPG, FPS, whatever. If I'm say, playing PoE at the moment, I'll check out some PoE streams. WoW, I'll watch wow streams. But not for long; its kinda boring. I watch CS:Go when big majors are on. I do think you are better off getting into Variety streams, if you can. Thats a hard thing to get into. I mean if you can get like Lirik/Summit/whatever and get to where people will watch you play freakin Stardew Valley one day, Golf Over It the next, and then Q into silver solo Q, you have it made. That has to be the dream. You aren't forced to spam a game you are quite possibly burnt out on just to appease a playerbase. You can just play whatever you want. But I do prefer more entertaining streams more often than not, UNLESS I'm in the mood to pick up some tips.
: Hello my dear jungler. It's me, your toplaner
Top lane is incredibly hard to get back on track. Especially with all the carries and bruisers people play. When you have died 2-3 times to Darius/Camille/Riven/whatever the hell you died to, there is a very strong chance that he can 2v1 you both. Or, its a 100% guaranteed loss if ANYONE else shows up during the gank. Especially since you probably picked some kind of carry yourself. Its hard to gank that. Especially when you can just go bot where no matter how fed the enemy ADC is, hes still squishy and can easily die if he gets CC'd or mis-positions during the gank. Mid, too. If you are a tank and died 2/3 times, it honestly doesnt matter. Hell, you are better off just being left alone so he can possibly get mid/bot ahead so that you can just out-tank whatever it was killing you when the real game starts. People really dont get it up there. Tank carries are stat balls most of the time and when one gets ahead he stays ahead, and he can easily 2v1 the JG and you.
: I'm just gonna give you the same advice people have been giving toplaners for a year now: Adapt or die. Crit is shit? Don't play crit adcs easy as that :) Edit: No seriously there was no reason to overbuff the shit out of adcs just because riot decided to make the game too snowbally for crit adcs to scale meanwhile toplaners sitting on the most expensive items in the game and noone gives a shit for over a year to tell us "adapt or die" but when adcs can't compete it is horrible, just imagine you have to play a utility adc and help your team, the horror. That's how we feel about tanks
> [{quoted}](name=GayFluffyUnicorn,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=i071829y,comment-id=00050002,timestamp=2018-05-08T10:34:12.167+0000) > > I'm just gonna give you the same advice people have been giving toplaners for a year now: Adapt or die. > Crit is shit? Don't play crit adcs easy as that :) > > Edit: No seriously there was no reason to overbuff the shit out of adcs just because riot decided to make the game too snowbally for crit adcs to scale meanwhile toplaners sitting on the most expensive items in the game and noone gives a shit for over a year to tell us "adapt or die" but when adcs can't compete it is horrible, just imagine you have to play a utility adc and help your team, the horror. That's how we feel about tanks I actually dont care, tbh. I'm just giving a history lesson to people who want to circle jerk. I've played ADCs when they were garbage, I can again. Hell, if you look at this account, I have mostly just been playing Fill, which is almost sup/jg/top every single game. Point is, Crit scaled way too slow to where the only viable ADCs, and fun ones, were utility adcs and lethality users. If you played a typical scaling ADC, the game would be over before you even got to participate in it. Thats why there were memes. And, no one wanted to play the role at that time. I actually play mostly utility ADCs anyways. I have ashe main account, I play varus/jhin/ashe on this one. I dont really care. I also play a lot of support and top. I like to play tank tops even though they are probably one of the worst things you can pick to solo carry games. ADCs were not overbuffed. They are still a very team reliant role. If you want to cry about overbuff, how about all the support items, and even some of the zeal procs. If you removed RFC and Shiv, ADCs would not feel very strong right now. Try it. Go into a game, play an ADC, go RFC/Shiv. Next game, go PD/Hurricane. See which feels like complete shit. See which feels incredibly strong.
Rioter Comments
: Can you tell me how to get out of silver?
The fact this post is actually upvoted, just shows why this forum is a complete shitshow, and why you shouldn't listen to people here on actual balance issues.
: I still don't understand why ADC item cost changes took this damn long.
Probably because this is the exact change they made when they had to buff ADCs in the past. They lowered the itemization costs because crit adcs were complete shit. They took too long to come online. People like to forget how it used to be. Before all these crit changes, you were basically trolling if you thought you were gonna take some kind of scaling ADC into botlane. There is a reason there was ADC memes. You might come online 25-30 minutes into the game but by then the game was over. It was not fun. Thats why the meta was nothing but lethality users and utility ADCs. Champs that were useful on 2 items or just added utility to the team, like Ashe/Varus/Jhin etc. A large portion of the champ roster was garbage. I dont even know if the cost is the real issue here. IMO, its the damn zeal upgrades. The amount of power Shiv/RFC give is crazy. Take the same ADC, and give them runaan's/PD or something and see the difference in power. Shiv critting for 450 magic damage should have never stayed as long as it did, and shouldn't have stacked with RFC anyways. I dont even know why RFC adds extra damage considering the range increase either. Couple that with them also boosting fleet footwork(I'm pretty sure the more energized procs you get, the faster they stack). So you got RFC/Shiv combo supercharging the Fleet Footwork charge, too. People are hardcore focusing on IE when the real issue, IMO, was the Zeal items. The difference in an ADC who doesnt go RFC/Shiv is night and day.
: I work at Taco Bell
You know I actually have less of a problem with them giving me no sauce, then for me to ask for a lot of sauce, and get 2 packets for 3 burritos. That just grinds my gears.
Rioter Comments
Elohaven (NA)
: Yeah, I love how irrelevant a Malphite or Maokai is.
> [{quoted}](name=Elohaven,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=qPX5GYqt,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-06T23:54:04.720+0000) > > Yeah, I love how irrelevant a Malphite or Maokai is. They are if their team sucks. If you want the definition of win lane, lose game, a top lane tank is it. Thats also why their win-rates are complete trash compared to fighters. Of course in a perfect scenario where you have good bot lane, a good mid, etc. They are incredibly VALUABLE. But that doesnt mean INFLUENTIAL. Key difference there, and what the thread's topic is about. A strong tank basically puts the icing on the cake of a good team, but is pretty irrelevant on a bad one. Statistically, a top lane tank is one of the worst things you can pick in solo Q. Look it up. We arent talking pro play here.
Elohaven (NA)
: Toplaners have as much or more influence as ADCs
The least relevant role is probably a top lane tank. Can't say the same for top lane carry/bruisers. Just top lane tanks are basically supports who make less plays around the map. Ive never thought the ADCs had much actual influence anyways. The game can damn near be out of reach by the time one gets 2/3 items if the jg/mid have went off. Its just a circle jerk on the forum saying otherwise. Yes, late game they have a ton of influence, but a jg/mid can put the game out of reach by then. Hell, a support also has more early game influence.
: Only one Support class is meta at a time. Discussion
Bard actually does a ton of dmg. Electrocute Bard will do half the health of a squishy with no defensive items. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4J5fP8SmvE Look how much damage im doing to that Jinx with only an Iceborne and morellos. She even has PD. You just dont see much of him in low elo. People dont like playing him.
: Its because tanks cant carry. That was my point. They have to have good players on the team to carry them. Even a 5-0 mao with a 0-10 bot lane cant win. something like Cammile at least has a chance.
> [{quoted}](name=HaIlMonitor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YajXAkvP,comment-id=000000000002000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-04T04:22:48.835+0000) > > Its because tanks cant carry. That was my point. They have to have good players on the team to carry them. Even a 5-0 mao with a 0-10 bot lane cant win. something like Cammile at least has a chance. They can carry IF the team has weak tank killing champs. Its rare as hell though. I carried a game the other day on Maokai where I was invincible, but I dont think there was any champs in the game that you would consider tank killers. Lemme look: Yea Ashe/Morg/Irelia/Braum/Sej. Morg is a terrible mid, Ashe is a weak dmg ADC. No dmg jg. Game over. I could 1v5. I did 14k dmg to my ADC's 7k lol. I think they lost bot but Ashe can't kill shit, so didn't matter. You dont get those unicorn games very often though. 9 games out of 10, someone else has to carry. Be it bot lane, or mid, or jg.
Jango Mage (EUNE)
: Most of the Keystones favor AD
really trying to undervalue Electrocute and Aery I see. How many keystones do you want? Thats 3 good ones. Damn near every ADC goes fleet. You MIGHT see PTA on someone like Lucian. All tanks are either grasp or aftershock. I mean what are you expecting?
: ??? Malphite builds full tank Singed is broken because Reverie
> [{quoted}](name=AirKingNeo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vzKEqI4P,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2018-05-04T02:38:38.961+0000) > > ??? Malphite builds full tank > > Singed is broken because Reverie Hes still more of a burst champion damage champion, which is why he ranks so highly. Armor gives him damage. You get into the real tanks, the mao's/nauts/etc and they are much farther down. Malphite is up because you can damn near 1 shot squishies with a full combo and ult. Especially if you go more damages like Iceborne, etc.
sho ayane (EUW)
: Tank supports are very weak. Tank top lane are very weak. People still complain about tanks and that we are in a tank meta, ok boys. xD
> [{quoted}](name=IloveJpop,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=vzKEqI4P,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2018-05-04T02:30:09.351+0000) > > Tank supports are very weak. > Tank top lane are very weak. > > People still complain about tanks and that we are in a tank meta, ok boys. xD Its because people base their entire perception of the game on pro play. Most of these people apparently dont play solo Q, because if they did they would never see tanks. You know how often i see an actual top lane tank when Im not filled and playing one? RARELY. Every single game is some kind of bruiser/dps champion up there. I mean hell case in point. The last game I had was riven vs. Darius. Game before that. Trundle vs. Trynd. Fiora vs Kayle. Etc. Thats how most solo Q games look.
darkdill (NA)
: There is too much True Damage in the game now
Even now, some of the best "tanks" in the game don't even build tank. You got singed as the highest win-rate tank who rushes and builds AP/health items. Malphite is next and hes mostly a dmg/burst tank. Most "pure" tanks are pretty mediocre and garbage nowadays. Probably just have to start going damage and focus on blowing people up.
Malak (NA)
: Marksmen need more nerfs
Why do you even want to be botlane? Do you not understand one of the worst parts of ADC and Support roles is the fact you are stuck in a 2v2? That is by far the worst part of both roles. I dont know why people have such a hard on of wanting to be down there. I mean really. Tell me why you even want to be down there. For me, the laning phase 2v2 is by far the least enjoyable part of both roles. I love when the towers go down and I can actually go make plays on supports, or go teamfight on adcs. So I really do not understand this obsession with people wanting to take other garbage down there. The only thing I can guess, is JUST because you want to. One of those people, who when they see a door says do not enter, they pitch a bitch cause they want to enter it, even if they dont want to be in there in the first place.
: > [{quoted}](name=DestructoDave,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=0007000000000000000100000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T07:23:00.621+0000) > > Actually, I think they ended up nerfing lethality at the same time. Lethality really isnt that bad now. It just doesnt kill tanks, and the most egregious crit issues people really seem to have, is champs like Cait and Trist hitting you for half your life from 900 yards away, and Rageblade crit abusers. I think a lot of the issue falls on a couple proc Zeal items mostly. > > And, this game is supposed to be fun. Having games decided WAY before you are even relevant is not fun. And again, a lot of the issues nowadays extend far past just crit on ADCs. People are going to realize that once these changes go through. A crit ADC is still squishy, still easy to kill. > > You guys really overestimate crit. I just killed a 3.5 item Jinx yesterday as support bard. Lets take a look shall we, cause its hilarious. What was she critting me for? 200? Thats 35 minutes into the game. Basically late game. Your lucky to finish 4 items in ranked. > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4J5fP8SmvE the game isnt just supposed to be fun for the marksmen. and that has been the case for pretty much one and a half years. cait and tristana arent the only ones guilty of being overtuned during that time. every marksman who bought rapid fire, shiv, and i.e. was way overpowered for more than a year, because these item builds were way too strong way too early and far too cheap. like 3 crit items were a good 500 to 1000 gold cheaper than 3 bruiser or mage items. its only been recently with conqueror and some mage item changes, that other classes even have a chance to keep up with marksmen during the midgame. and thats a class that was outscaling other types of carries with these builds. sorry, but no? this is not ok. you cant sacrifice the fun of everyone playing this game, because one guy on the team wants to be the center of attention and able to always solo carry every game. if fighters and mages are doing well, they should have just as much impact as marksmen, and that simply wasnt the case for far too long.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=00070000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T07:42:20.246+0000) > > the game isnt just supposed to be fun for the marksmen. and that has been the case for pretty much one and a half years. > > cait and tristana arent the only ones guilty of being overtuned during that time. every marksman who bought rapid fire, shiv, and i.e. was way overpowered for more than a year, because these item builds were way too strong way too early and far too cheap. > > like 3 crit items were a good 500 to 1000 gold cheaper than 3 bruiser or mage items. > > its only been recently with conqueror and some mage item changes, that other classes even have a chance to keep up with marksmen during the midgame. > > and thats a class that was outscaling other types of carries with these builds. sorry, but no? this is not ok. you cant sacrifice the fun of everyone playing this game, because one guy on the team wants to be the center of attention and able to always solo carry every game. if fighters and mages are doing well, they should have just as much impact as marksmen, and that simply wasnt the case for far too long. Have you even looked at solo Q win-rates buddy? Have you? Because the solo carry champs are doing more than fine. Actually, better than most adcs. Take a look here: https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/by-winrate I get so sick of you people just talking out of your ass 24/7 on this forum when the stats does not line up with your bullshit. "Not supposed to just be fun for marksmen" Then what do you play? Please. Where at on that list is your champion, since you hide behind a low level alt. Because there is a damn lot of champs doing better than most marksmen on that overall list. You guys like to warp your solo Q experience with what you watch in LCS. Because if you actually played solo Q, most of the champs you whine about actually SUCK there, and a lot of the ones people say arent any good, have GREAT win-rates. Look at those assassin win-rates. Look at those fighter win-rates. If you listened to people around here, those champs should be at the bottom.
Aldra (NA)
: if you really believe that then what is the point of your comment though? i see xayah, caitlyn, ashe, tristana, jinx take it on their 3rd item for sustain and shield so we must play a different game lol
> [{quoted}](name=Aldra,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=e9MmWL4n,comment-id=00000001,timestamp=2018-05-03T07:12:21.181+0000) > > if you really believe that then what is the point of your comment though? i see xayah, caitlyn, ashe, tristana, jinx take it on their 3rd item for sustain and shield so we must play a different game lol Picked 1% of the time as 3rd item on Xayah https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Xayah/ Picked 1.76% of the time as 3rd item on Cait https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Caitlyn/ Picked 2% of the time as 3rd item on Ashe https://lolalytics.com/ranked/worldwide/platinum/plus/champion/Ashe/ Should I keep going? Damn you see it ALLLLLL the time dont you. I mean if you just look at Xayah, you see it 5% of the time, ever. I guess we are playing a different game.
: > [{quoted}](name=DestructoDave,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=00070000000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-03T02:28:46.827+0000) > > They also buffed crit items because Crit ADCs were scaling too slow and were useless compared to all the 1/2 item spike lethality ADCs and utility adcs who were there for utility. You were never going to get into the game vs something like a lethality jhin if you were a crit-scaling ADC then. By the time you got your items to even be relevant the game was over. > > Thats one of the reasons they changed the prices. > > Its just a circle of life around here. > > Oh, and honestly I think first turret is as snowbally as ever. Stats show whatever team gets first turret, wins 73% of the time in any elo. Gang-banging botlane is still the correct plays, and happens every game. well sorry, but thats the downside to a **lategame** item build? lethality was strong around early and midgame at the time, and crit was much stonger lategame. buffing crit to powerspike as early as lethality (a stat that marksmen werent even supposed to primarily use, but was balanced for assassins) and still scaling into lategame was nothing short of fucking retarded. you cant just have both, a strong early/midgame and be a hypercarry lategame. this is exactly part of the reason why marksmen became a problem for everyone else.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=000700000000000000010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T07:03:25.345+0000) > > well sorry, but thats the downside to a **lategame** item build? > > lethality was strong around early and midgame at the time, and crit was much stonger lategame. buffing crit to powerspike as early as lethality (a stat that marksmen werent even supposed to primarily use, but was balanced for assassins) and still scaling into lategame was nothing short of fucking retarded. you cant have both. Actually, I think they ended up nerfing lethality at the same time. Lethality really isnt that bad now. It just doesnt kill tanks, and the most egregious crit issues people really seem to have, is champs like Cait and Trist hitting you for half your life from 900 yards away, and Rageblade crit abusers. I think a lot of the issue falls on a couple proc Zeal items mostly. And, this game is supposed to be fun. Having games decided WAY before you are even relevant is not fun. And again, a lot of the issues nowadays extend far past just crit on ADCs. People are going to realize that once these changes go through. A crit ADC is still squishy, still easy to kill. You guys really overestimate crit. I just killed a 3.5 item Jinx yesterday as support bard. Lets take a look shall we, cause its hilarious. What was she critting me for? 200? Thats 35 minutes into the game. Basically late game. Your lucky to finish 4 items in ranked. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4J5fP8SmvE
: If tanks are shit its because the player on them isnt getting carried...
> [{quoted}](name=HaIlMonitor,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=YajXAkvP,comment-id=0000000000020000,timestamp=2018-05-03T05:45:23.927+0000) > > If tanks are shit its because the player on them isnt getting carried... https://www.leagueofgraphs.com/champions/stats/by-winrate Look at that. Tanks have some of the worst overall win-rates in the game. We can whine about assassins, fighters, ADCs, whatever. Tanks are some of the worst overall champs to pick if you care about winning. You got singed, who basically goes dmg, and then Sion all the way down at 23. Then what? Malphite at 40? Another damage building tank. Maokai falling in at 68. There are less tanks in the top 20 win-rates than any other role. Lol. Get my drift? Top lane tanks blow in solo Q. If you wanna flip a coin and hope to god anyone else on the map can carry, well, pick a top lane tank. You are right. Its because they flipped a coin hoping some other position carried when they locked in a top lane tank.
: I LOVE laning against Zoe.
Try AP MF against her, if you wanna make her life miserable. Actually, that shit makes A LOT of people miserable. Comet will hit damn near 100% of the time, take cheap shot for extra true dmg, damn near impossible to land skillshots on her running at mach 10 with W passive, and you can't miss E. Its only meh at the very beginning when its like 18 second CD. Just spam E on CD, profit.
Kunii (NA)
: Should I Quit LoL?
Have you ever thought about trying a different role? You know, back in the day when I was just stuck in silver all the time, I mained ADC. For a few seasons. I kept thinking top lane looked pretty easy. Champs looked easy, they were tankier so I would be less punished for mistakes, harder to gank, etc. So I made a smurf for top lane only. I got Gold in like 35 games. I just understood top lane and how to play most of the champs up there. I know you seem to like mid, but maybe trying to be a 1v5 Katarina mid-lane player just isn't for you. Or any of those Assassin-type midlaners. Maybe you are better off JG, or Support, or Top. See I know I would gain more elo if I just played top lane. http://na.op.gg/summoner/userName=treedayban Look at those season 4 top lane win-rates. Hell, look at current Sion. 100%. But, I dont care about gaining elo as much as I care about having fun. And I have fun teamfighting on ADCs. Hell, right now I'm having fun playing fill every game. Which means like 60% support, 30% jg, 10% everything else. So I just play what I want. So, maybe do some self-evaluation on why being a mid-lane player, or even Kat player, is holding you back. You know why ADC holds me back? I suck at laning in a 2v2. I also, have little idea of what to do most of the game, outside of teamfighting. I can admit these things. I have little agency in a 2v2. I can never push any sort of advantage like I can in a solo lane, or even as support. I have more lane agency as a support. I have more map pressure and awareness in every other role than ADC. Sometimes I find myself just wandering around, getting cs, following teammates, hoping for the best. While I'm on support making plays, tping as a top laner, etc. I have impact I created. I can even see this in BETTER ADCs I face, who seem to get more work done when I don't. BUT, I like playing ADC. I enjoy the mechanical aspect of it, so I continue to main it, despite me hurting myself LP-wise. I could just go play Sion top or whatnot and gain elo.
Ailady (NA)
: i think marksmen update just needs two things
How often do they even build Bloodthirster? Seriously. Dravens rushing it is about it.You guys lose ONE solo Q game, to some item almost no one ever gets to build, and you guys run straight to the forums to post about it. Lifesteal is seriously overrated nowadays. Morello's is a great item on damn near every champ that does burst, so its almost always in the game, executioners is 800g, most ADCs cannot go any sort of lifesteal before 4 items, outside of a few(Kai-sa with death's dance, dravens with BT). Even then, most people end up better off with Mercurial anyways. Damn you see it all when people are scraping the bottom of the barrel wanting Bloodthirster nerfed.
: she can crit on her first auto if you damage them with W or ult first (which you may as well to optimize your damage output given your w and ult outranges your autos) more on topic, I don't think anyone is meant to build IE as a first item with this new form. I think the idea now is you build a BF sword to last hit caster minions under turret early game, then build zeal, then finish zeal item, then finish IE. And if you were doing this before (cough going runaans+BF sword first), then it doesn't actually change much at all beyond the zeal item costing 200 more gold afaik.
> [{quoted}](name=flibitydoo,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WXKLuEer,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-05-03T02:44:08.166+0000) > > she can crit on her first auto if you damage them with W or ult first (which you may as well to optimize your damage output given your w and ult outranges your autos) > > more on topic, I don't think anyone is meant to build IE as a first item with this new form. I think the idea now is you build a BF sword to last hit caster minions under turret early game, then build zeal, then finish zeal item, then finish IE. And if you were doing this before (cough going runaans+BF sword first), then it doesn't actually change much at all beyond the zeal item costing 200 more gold afaik. Still, these are optimal scenarios. Targets change, she gets CC'd, she has to kite/dodge, people block W, you name it. There are reasons to why the non-crit first shot gimps her damage, and is probably one of the main factors as to why she is always so low on the dmg per game chart for adcs. It adds up over the course of a game. Honestly, Ashe might be going back to the Bortk/Runaan's build anyways. Its not even that bad now.
: For real, though, DPS champions are supposed to out-scale tanks. SOMETHING has to beat tanks late-game, otherwise games would drag on far longer than is reasonable due to nobody being able to kill the tanks. Okay, so 20% of the ADC's damage is true damage. That's still 80% of their damage being physical, and thus mitigated by your armor. Offense HAS to out-scale defense by some point, because defense can't close out games.
> [{quoted}](name=Vid the Strange,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=hZyfvcyT,comment-id=0006,timestamp=2018-05-03T02:26:16.092+0000) > > For real, though, DPS champions are supposed to out-scale tanks. SOMETHING has to beat tanks late-game, otherwise games would drag on far longer than is reasonable due to nobody being able to kill the tanks. > > Okay, so 20% of the ADC's damage is true damage. That's still 80% of their damage being physical, and thus mitigated by your armor. > > Offense HAS to out-scale defense by some point, because defense can't close out games. My only issue, is a lot of this stuff directly hurts tanks during their power-time. All this true damage hurts early in the game, too. To be perfectly honest, picking any sort of real tank in solo Q is just pissing away LP. The only tanks that are even doing well are crap like Singed, a dmg tank, Sion, etc. Competitive is a whole different ballgame to solo Q. A tank can work there. Solo Q there is so many kills, so much going on, so little coordination that you get outscaled pretty damn fast in most games because a lot of the popular champs have no issues dumping on tanks. I mean if you get the holy trinity of being in some game vs another tank, with something like an enemy Ashe, you will be an extreme livelord. Then the next game you get in vs vayne/Kai'sa, laning vs a Jax that outscales you on 1 item with Conqueror, and your life is miserable as shit by 15-20 minutes, and just keeps getting worse.
: > [{quoted}](name=Manslayer,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-05-02T20:11:15.325+0000) > > I know it's not official, just feels that way. Hence why I put it in quotes but then again I dunno. I think a big thing to consider is if anything else becomes good bottom, like Ziggs was, marksman become useless and obsolete. this isnt even close to true. back when bot lane ziggs was at its height, he barely broke 50% winrate, which wasnt even as strong as the top marksmen played at the time, who were sitting around 52% to 53% winrate. the reason why marksmen had so little game impact back then, was the addition of 500 gold turret first blood, the removal of bot lane turret fortification, and strong early game junglers. bot lane turret first blood decided games by the 12 minute mark, and was often achieved by repeated 5 man gangbangs into bot lane during the early game. you put any lane under this kind of pressure and create 5 man ganks by 6 minutes into top, mid or bot and the game is going to feel like asscrack for the champions who play in that lane. ziggs has a gimmick on his w that let him execute turrets from almost 40% health, which means it played right into the meta where the first turret literally decides games, and was the main reason he was even viable on bot. it had nothing to do with the strength of marksmen compared to mages. marksmen werent even too weak back then. it was just global game mechanics changes that fucked up game pacing to the extreme and snowballed games to end before marksmen even got to their second item. that was a time when crit was actually still a lategame build. like imagine youre a lategame champion and you get 5 man ganked literally every couple of minutes and your turret drops for 500 gold by 6 to 10 minutes, the game ends by 12 to 20 before you can recover. that was "adc 2k17" and not their items or the champions being too weak. riot reacted with a knee jerk buff to marksmen crit items, which eventually put us through the shit we had to experience with overpowered marksmen items for almost 2 years after they fixed the initial game pacing issues of early season 7, and that eventually led up to the midseason patch today.
> [{quoted}](name=Critmaster Garen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=2iEPs76F,comment-id=0007000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-02T20:46:52.553+0000) > > this isnt even close to true. back when bot lane ziggs was at its height, he barely broke 50% winrate, which wasnt even as strong as the top marksmen played at the time, who were sitting around 52% to 53% winrate. > > the reason why marksmen had so little game impact back then, was the addition of 500 gold turret first blood, the removal of bot lane turret fortification, and strong early game junglers. > > bot lane turret first blood decided games by the 12 minute mark, and was often achieved by repeated 5 man gangbangs into bot lane during the early game. > > you put any lane under this kind of pressure and create 5 man ganks by 6 minutes into top, mid or bot and the game is going to feel like asscrack for the champions who play in that lane. > > ziggs has a gimmick on his w that let him execute turrets from almost 40% health, which means it played right into the meta where the first turret literally decides games, and was the main reason he was even viable on bot. > > it had nothing to do with the strength of marksmen compared to mages. marksmen werent even too weak back then. it was just global game mechanics changes that fucked up game pacing to the extreme and snowballed games to end before marksmen even got to their second item. that was a time when crit was actually still a lategame build. > > like imagine youre a lategame champion and you get 5 man ganked literally every couple of minutes and your turret drops for 500 gold by 6 to 10 minutes, the game ends by 12 to 20 before you can recover. that was "adc 2k17" and not their items or the champions being too weak. > > riot reacted with a knee jerk buff to marksmen crit items, which eventually put us through the shit we had to experience with overpowered marksmen items for almost 2 years after they fixed the initial game pacing issues of early season 7, and that eventually led up to the midseason patch today. They also buffed crit items because Crit ADCs were scaling too slow and were useless compared to all the 1/2 item spike lethality ADCs and utility adcs who were there for utility. You were never going to get into the game vs something like a lethality jhin if you were a crit-scaling ADC then. By the time you got your items to even be relevant the game was over. Thats one of the reasons they changed the prices. Its just a circle of life around here. Oh, and honestly I think first turret is as snowbally as ever. Stats show whatever team gets first turret, wins 73% of the time in any elo. Gang-banging botlane is still the correct plays, and happens every game.
: Please stop adding 0 counterplay items
I hate playing tanks right now. Anytime I get top, I generally like to play some kind of tank. Mao, etc. Facing all these conqueror champs up there gets pretty damn annoying, tbh.
: Uh yeah. I do like the bursty champions like Diana, and I've been looking into other assassins, such as Fizz. I can say that Fizz is probably the most fun champion I have ever played, and does not seem to have too much mechanics associated with his kit, so I may go with him. Any feedback on this decision (like is it stupid or not)?
> [{quoted}](name=MemeL0rd111,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4oOFEiT5,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-05-03T01:50:47.285+0000) > > Uh yeah. I do like the bursty champions like Diana, and I've been looking into other assassins, such as Fizz. I can say that Fizz is probably the most fun champion I have ever played, and does not seem to have too much mechanics associated with his kit, so I may go with him. Any feedback on this decision (like is it stupid or not)? Fizz is better than Diana. If you like playing Fizz play him. He has way more tools in his kit to do a lot of things.
Ifneth (NA)
: Ashe doesn’t sacrifice damage for her passive. Instead of each having a chance to critically strike for double damage, Ashe’s basic attacks deal percent bonus damage to frosted targets. That percent bonus equals ten plus her Critical Strike Chance. It’s as though the damage from the critical strikes she would otherwise have dealt were spread across each attack, with the ten extra percent compensating for her not dealing bonus damage on the first attack. Hitting a target with Volley immediately applies Frost, too, compensating further.
> [{quoted}](name=Ifneth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WXKLuEer,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2018-05-02T16:03:55.244+0000) > > Ashe doesn’t sacrifice damage for her passive. Instead of each having a chance to critically strike for double damage, Ashe’s basic attacks deal percent bonus damage to frosted targets. That percent bonus equals ten plus her Critical Strike Chance. It’s as though the damage from the critical strikes she would otherwise have dealt were spread across each attack, with the ten extra percent compensating for her not dealing bonus damage on the first attack. Hitting a target with Volley immediately applies Frost, too, compensating further. She does sacrifice damage. She cannot crit on the first shot. She only gets that bonus on people with frost shot, so if they get out of range or change targets, she loses damage again. Mathematically, on paper it should equal out if you are hitting the same person 10 times, with frost shot applied, as someone with the same crit. But in practice and reality, she does way less damage because of having to keep it applied. Thats why she usually does some of the lower avg dmg per game than most adcs.
: Poppy was sitting at the bottom winrate of any toplane tank in 8.8
Tanks in general are garbage in solo Q. Just look through win-rates. For all the whining people do around here, fighters and assassins have much better representation in solo Q than tanks do. Hell, tanks are some of the overall WORST champs you can pick. And Riot just keeps adding tank busting mechanics because of pro play, trying to force tanks out of the competitive meta. Meanwhile they are pretty crap in solo Q, and just get made worse by pro changes.
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DestructoDave

Level 72 (NA)
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