: > [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-10-12T09:00:58.195+0000) > > It's not about adapting, her core identity is gone. Actually no. It was just pushed back to post 6. Post 6 she becomes the terrifying ganker we both agree she should have been from level 1. > What part of this did you not understand? this is like saying "Well, they removed Ashe but you can play Miss Fortune, so that's pretty much the same thing anyway". Wtf are you even talking about? > Then you must be an atrocious Lux player to have not understood how to use your slow, or have missed your snare probably twice or have been so wildly out of position. I was not the Lux player, she was an ally. I am a {{champion:19}} one trick. I shut down the enemy eve, in spite of being an item and a half behind she was able to flank and 100-0 my Lux before she could shield herself. Dodging CC with her ult is very easy. > The reason Evelynn was always one of the weakest champions in the game by a huge amount (Check the numbers, she was hands down the worst assassin, number wise) was because she had the element of surprise. This is now gone at every level But she gets it back post 6.. >and it is even worse early game. Because she is not an early game jungler anymore. She is a mid/late game ap assassin. >She has the worst ganking potential of any assassin at any stage of the game Level 3 Diana would like to have a word with you. Eve at least has a charm. > this is not an exaggeration. It really is. You've essentially lost any pity I felt for you. > Evelynn was the ultimate lone wolf of LoL with some of the highest adaptability in the game thanks to her hybrid ratios and in-built ASPD.... she lost all of this. She was also a fairly weak jungler who offered very little to her team outside of early game pressure. In that regard she was severely out performed by {{champion:60}} {{champion:64}} {{champion:35}}. The only time she was a meta jungler was when {{item:1402}} was strong af for like 2 patches in s6. >They ruined her.... at least Warwick and Sion kept their general identities. She still has stealth, now she has the ability to be an actual assassin rather than an immobile skirmisher. Before she was a small ball of stats that rolls her face on the keyboard then runs away, or into the team depending on how many she hit with her ult. Now she can reliably stealth into a fight, get a pick, and ult to safety. Sorry if you do not enjoy the new Eve, there are people in every playerbase who dislike the reworks, but shes fun to play and is going to have a far larger playerbase then she had before.
> [{quoted}](name=K9 Unit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=000100000000,timestamp=2017-10-12T11:29:35.830+0000) > > Actually no. It was [removed] Exactly. > I was not the Lux player, she was an ally. Then your ally was terrible. > Level 3 Diana would like to have a word with you. What's your point? Diana would destroy Evelynn in a jungle encounter at 3, she would also have much better ganking potential than no-camo Eve at that point. > She still has stealth She does not have her camo for the most important part of the game. >now she has the ability to be an actual assassin rather than an immobile skirmisher. Before she was a small ball of stats that rolls her face on the keyboard then runs away With the exception of the faceroll comment, which I would expect from one of your kind, this is the only argument you make with merit. She is closer to the typical assassin now, with echoes of Leblanc in her design rather than being a "Fast duelist". > Now she can reliably stealth into a fight That's literally the opposite of the truth, spectacular fail. >shes fun to play and is going to have a far larger playerbase then she had before. That's cute, that does not address the issue, her core identity was completely ruined. She was brutally pillage and plundered.
: Really? I've loved Eve since S1, and I think her core identity here remains. Her strongest feat is ambushing players attempting to roam, as lust dust has plenty of time to charge in the jungle. If you're ganking lane, just don't use lust dust for the charm, proc the huge ass slow instead. But Eve is still amazing at ambushing. Perhaps you're using the wrong itemization? Runic Echoes and Lich Bane both proc instantly on her E, and I've flat out one-shot ADCs with it, let alone her E-R's almost instantaneous burst. If anything, I've felt Eve's greatest problem was her squishy nature, rather than her assassination ability. She simply can't go toe-to-toe with other assassins due to her frailty, but I've had no problems at all getting the drop on people and tearing them apart. Her playstyle is a bit different for sure, namely that she can't go berserk and chase someone down for fucking miles on end, but that wasn't a sign of her being healthy as an ASSASSIN but rather a duelist. Trust me, it took me a few goes with her to figure out exactly -when- I should pick my fights. As for an interesting thing gained - She can now play psychological games with Lust Dust. People -really- back off when they see that charm overhead, even if you don't target the person. You can use it to scare people off from diving an ally, cause a team to group around a teammate too tightly, and a bunch of other nifty things that give the new Eve a utility she never had before.
> [{quoted}](name=Lord Malpercio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-10-12T10:52:25.666+0000) > > Really? I've loved Eve since S1, and I think her core identity here remains. I played her since S1 as well, I just didn't main her. Her core identity was preserved even through the first rework. >she can't go berserk and chase someone down for fucking miles on end Barring 4 sunfire cape shadow walk Evelynn in S1 that was never a viable option. Are you.... [checks] I thought as much. >She can now play psychological games with Lust Dust. People -really- back off when they see that charm overhead, even if you don't target the person. Thought about that and attempted it literally the first game. Lust Dust despite having no effect, has a very long cooldown... even if that wasn't the case, that is NOT Evelynn's core identity. She was never Kindred.
Muzét (EUW)
: > one game later.... You said plenty enough. Play her more. One game is ont enough to get the "right" to act like you do. The only thing I agree with is her W windup time that should scale down per level
> [{quoted}](name=Muzét,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-10-12T11:28:49.234+0000) > > You said plenty enough You are correct, for the wrong reasons.
: I hated the Taric rework at first. Gradually he became my main after I adjusted, to the point that I prefer the rework overall. Give it time.
> [{quoted}](name=OurLestrade,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2017-10-12T09:12:41.332+0000) > > I hated the Taric rework at first. Gradually he became my main after I adjusted, to the point that I prefer the rework overall. Give it time. Same here with Taric. I loved the old Taric's powerful heal and amazing Shatter aura.... but his Shatter active, his stun and especially his Radiance were absolute garbo. New Taric's link is weak, his heal is weak, his stun is weak and his ult is weak.... individually, but with his heal somewhat buffed, he feels like he is a lot stronger than the sum of his parts. I have grown to like him, is my point. That said, what part of "They completely stripped her of her core identity, it's gone" did you not understand? Taric was still Taric even after the rework, he was a tanky support with a stun and a heal that defended his ADC while dealing out low-to-mid damage. Old Evelynn was an ambush predator with weak stats but a strong window of advantage (early game ganks, late game positioning and timing). She was the ultimate lone wolf. Described as "The Ultimate Predator" by Riot's own lore (Jax himself is quoted as saying this). New Evelynn is a team fighting KSer that has most of her terrible kit reliant on a charm. This is not the same character, nor the same theme (Ambush predator/Stealth burst mage assassin). Sigh. How can you fail to understand this Even if the numbers are hella bumped or swapped around, this is not Evelynn.
: Wait. How is the murderous Demon who feeds on pain and suffering a SJW construct?
> [{quoted}](name=Malicious Metal,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=42y5wE3T,comment-id=000c0000,timestamp=2017-10-12T10:01:02.752+0000) > > How is the murderous Demon who feeds on pain and suffering a SJW construct? You have lost the plot, sir.
: This is why you ban/dodge recently reworked champs.
> [{quoted}](name=Linna Excel,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NiUQH1V1,comment-id=0009,timestamp=2017-10-12T05:00:07.443+0000) > > This is why you ban/dodge recently reworked champs. I played her once and realized I had to perma-ban her from that point forward. She is absolutely terrible unless you're specificallly duo queued with someone that will work around her extremely glaring weaknesses.... but at that point, why not just play Lee, Wukong or Vi instead? way better early game with a stronger contribution to team fights later, especially Wukong.
: Eh I think you just need to adapt to her new playstyle. I do admit the loss of early game stealth is bullshit for how weak she is, but her scalings pretty good. I shut one down early and she was still able to reliably 100-0 my Lux without Lust dust.
> [{quoted}](name=K9 Unit,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-10-12T07:29:09.942+0000) > > Eh I think you just need to adapt to her new playstyle. I do admit the loss of early game stealth is bullshit for how weak she is, but her scalings pretty good. I shut one down early and she was still able to reliably 100-0 my Lux without Lust dust. It's not about adapting, her core identity is gone. What part of this did you not understand? this is like saying "Well, they removed Ashe but you can play Miss Fortune, so that's pretty much the same thing anyway". > I shut one down early and she was still able to reliably 100-0 my Lux without Lust dust. Then you must be an atrocious Lux player to have not understood how to use your slow, or have missed your snare probably twice or have been so wildly out of position. The reason Evelynn was always one of the weakest champions in the game by a huge amount (Check the numbers, she was hands down the worst assassin, number wise) was because she had the element of surprise. This is now gone at every level and it is even worse early game. She has the worst ganking potential of any assassin at any stage of the game, this is not an exaggeration. Evelynn was the ultimate lone wolf of LoL with some of the highest adaptability in the game thanks to her hybrid ratios and in-built ASPD.... she lost all of this. They ruined her.... at least Warwick and Sion kept their general identities.
: buuuut if she somehow lands said cc, and you're squishy, you're pretty much done for. have not been playing league for too long, first rework i've seen was warwick's. Evelynn's was god-awful. worse than urgot's, in my opinion.
> [{quoted}](name=Bionic Jellyfish,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=XNzUUWOh,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-10-12T06:55:45.868+0000) > > buuuut if she somehow lands said cc, and you're squishy, you're pretty much done for. > have not been playing league for too long, first rework i've seen was warwick's. Evelynn's was god-awful. worse than urgot's, in my opinion. Yes, her entire kit is reliant on Lust Dust. This gives the opposing player or TEAM a very large window to disable, focus and presumably, kill Evelynn during this time frame. Regardless, this is not Evelynn. Evelynn was an ambush predator, this is the opposite.
Rioter Comments
AQA473 (NA)
: So I have a huge problem with Eve, but not a huge problem with Camille. I'm genuinely curious, what is she a parody of? Maybe I should be critical of her, too.
Camille is both a parody and a homage to the old style feminists, her cutting mottif is a throwback to the society for cutting up men (SCUM manifesto) written by Valerie Solanas, I'm pretty sure she uses some of the rhetoric retooled by her that originated from the suffragettes as well. Her name is clearly a reference to Camille Paglia who has been a feminist for many decades, but one that was not on board with a lot of the bullshit they spewed. So she has been back and forth but is still considered a stanch advocate for the advancement of a legitimate movement. Her moves derive from timing and control, two aspects that were constantly promoted by the core groups in the 70s that echoed Sejuani's cry "deeds, not words" , urging women to ACT, NOW (Represented by her entire kit being timing/control based). I am positive more than just that one line that I mentioned is either a straight up quote or a retooled homage of feminist quotes from the 60s and 70s.... she's a parody in that she's an over the top serial killer with blade-legs but she's a homage in the series of references that they incuded. It's actually kind of funny how it simultaneously makes fun of how over the top feminists have always been but still manages to pay respects at the same time. This is how you do feminist propaganda right, in my opinion.
Fasmodey (EUW)
: That's what I was expecting from Riot. Making incredibly malicious and evil characters funny. Who is next? Nocturne saying "I think nightmare you have seen wasn't even scary. I think you should feel bad. Shame." Something like this? Mordekaiser saying "I mean I'm glorious, why wouldn't anyone want to get tortured for all eternity by me?" Evelynn has become TOO human. She is a freaking demon. She at least had to have more demonic quotes. Same for Rhaast. He is going trying to hard to be funny. Mordekaiser and Nocturne shouldn't have human lines more than few. They shouldn't speak like they are from real life society. They should feel evil with almost every quote. Evelynn voice is great if you ignore her old and current theme together. Otherwise, doesnt fit. Not bad, but doesn't fit. (Which makes it bad tho)
Thank you for understand something that is incredibly obvious. The older I get the more realize that there are a lot of people that have absolutely no idea what they're talking about. It might be because you have done some work in the past... I would not even have noticed if I had not done (VERY) amateur voice work, but even the slightest change in intonation and pitch made my voice sound totally different in story context and in this case, it's almost as if they went out of their way to make both the lines and VA be as out of character for Evelynn (A merciless stealth predator) as they possibly could...... she's a parody of what she used to be. As a stealth predator and a straight up murderer (Widowmaker) she shouldn't be throwing out Draven style jokes with every line.... Lissandra is a good example of how to make a character's VA and lines match up to their lore and aesthetic.
Ralanr (NA)
: So you think she's an SJW creation because she's having fun?
You have still not answered my question.... it's really not a difficult question to answer. It seems you are not even reading my posts.
: I'm so confused as to why you label her VO as "SJW style", when in actuality it's anti sjw if anything. I'm surprised some tumblrina hasn't made a thread, with the entire topic being devoted to something hilarious like "gross objectification of women."
> [{quoted}](name=Catastrop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-09-30T17:32:33.304+0000) > > I'm so confused as to why you label her VO as "SJW style", when in actuality it's anti sjw if anything. I would really love to know what makes you think that a blatant SJW audio set is actually anti SJW. I say that without a drip of irony or sarcasm. I legit would love to know how you came to that conclusion. >gross objectification of women. I am an extremely staunch anti feminist and because Sun Tzu, as you know author of The Art of War, indicated that one of the most crucial steps to victory is to understand your enemy, I have studied feminism for many years. Both in the classical theory and in modern practice. "Gross objectification of women" would only be a valid complaint if the 'agency' of the character were muddled or muted entirely (actor vs. non-actor). Evelynn has always, and continues to be depicted aesthetically as a sexually aggressive character rather than for the pleasure of men (Sexually passive character). It's also worth noting that in both **Gloria Steinem**'s first book (blanking on the name) and that one rape book by **Andrea Dworkin**.... both stated that the biggest problem was the sexual suppression of women by men but also by other women, which is ironically what you are indicating should happen. This suppression was often referred to as " _The practice of dominating the thoughts and therefore the behavior of women_ " ... it's quite funny really.... heh. What you are describing is what they claimed was the biggest threat to the liberation of females. Anyway in practice you are correct, modern SJWs would complain that a female character is "objectified" simply for displaying sexually aggressive tendencies or sexuality at all....... however, other feminists call what you are describing by the pejorative term "**Sex-negative feminists**"; They're the bad guys [lol, I am not making this up, man]. Etc etc.... I don't think anybody read this far and I don't blame them, this is really boring. I apologize.... this is the most boring post I've ever made.
Ralanr (NA)
: So you think she's an SJW creation because she's having fun?
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0002000000000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-30T17:17:40.977+0000) > > So you think she's an SJW creation I don't remember saying that , but that's a lovely strawman argument, sir. >because she's having fun? I certainly don't remember saying that.... could you at least address my actual points if you're going to present an argument The argument is very straightforward, but very well, let me elaborate on the off chance that you misunderstood (I don't think you did, given you straight up used two strawman arguments back-to-back but I choose to give you the benefit of the doubt).... her kit is great , I was pleasantly surprised with the changes they made. The aesthetic (Especially Shadow Evelynn) is magnificent and I applaud the work. None of this is SJW in any way, neither the kit , nor the aesthetic. The voice acting and the lines however, are absolutely atrocious and reek of SJW's hand. Evelynn is not Draven. She was not like this at all. Yeah she had a couple of joke lines (aside from the literal joke) but even those were pretty dry. They were not this cutesy SJW nonsense where everything is a joke or a reference. The dead giveaway which I already noted is that her old , few joke lines were dry humor, I.e. not this. I generally don't mind though , new or different characters SHOULD be different even if that means making them in the SJW mold (Ex: Poppy, to be fair though, Poppy had very little personality prior to her VGU)... but Evelynn had an established style and this absolutely violates that style on a fundamental level. It doesn't matter though, it's done. Evelynn's personality is dead.... at least they got the kit right. I just wish they had gotten personality somewhat intact (Ex: Warwick). Before you say " **Well you're just whining because you're not proposing a solution** " , which would be a valid response.... my solution would be to allow players to choose between her old audio and her new one. That would be very easy to implement and would make everyone happy.... same as they did for Trundle, Sejuani and Karma.
: > You balance a game based around people that know how to play, not people who don't. > > The people that the ability to play the game (To a competent level of course) is Plat and above. Garen is within 1.5% of a 50% in 80% of all Plat+ ELOs, which is fairly balanced. You've glossed over this piece of information several times now. One more thing. Riot have made Garen a special case because of how simple the champion is. They've stated before that they avoid giving flat buffs to Garen because in order to make him strong in high ELOs he would be a broken no-skill shitstomper in lower ELOs. Garen is the closest he's ever been to being competitive across all skill levels, which I think deserves to be commended.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=0006000000010000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-30T20:24:37.833+0000) > > Garen is within 1.5% of a 50% in 80% of all Plat+ ELOs, which is fairly balanced. You've glossed over this piece of information several times now. Strawman argument detected. It is understandable why you are resorting to strawman arguments now though... but I can't say why. The Draconian System prevents me from expressing myself freely. Btw, The Draconian System is putrid scoriae. I hope Riot will remove it someday.
: Parts of my post you conveniently left out of your response: > Your argument relies entirely on your own arbitrary definitions of what "matters". --- > Gold ELO doesn't magically not matter just because you don't think it should. --- > Garen is within 1.5% of a 50% in 80% of all Plat+ ELOs, which is balanced. Honestly disappointing that your only response to "[A] is wrong because [X], [Y], and [Z]" is repeating your childish belief that "[A] is still true because I say it's true". Regardless of your high and mighty ELO, you're a complete pushover when it comes to defending what you believe. Insisting that people are wrong and ignoring (or completely failing to comprehend) any arguments to the contrary is all you seem to know how to do. It's essentially the Bronze V of internet arguments, and what you're doing here is basically inting, since you keep walking up with the same weak argument and die repeatedly because you are completely unaware that someone who is 0/4 cannot fight someone who is ahead and knows what they're doing. 2lp, you can't beat anyone if you don't know how to outplay them lmao ######What's even funnier is my certainty that you won't even read this whole post. You don't have time to sit around letting me spank your ass and tell you you're wrong. Nope. You're just impatiently waiting to give another half-assed answer so you can feel like you put up a fight. Let me make this clear to you. This game is over. If you're not even going to put effort into this debate, I'll take my free win and be on my way to more important things. Hope you aren't butthurt about not being worth my time. Cheers! {{sticker:sg-syndra}}
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=00060000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-28T15:26:46.021+0000) > > Parts of my post you conveniently left out of your response No, it's called formating. It's really not that complicated or difficult to understand. > your only response to is wrong becauseand is repeating your childish belief that is still true because I say its true That was a whole lot of nothing. >Regardless of your high and mighty ELO, you're a complete pushover when it comes to defending what you believe. Is that so? you've been destroyed over and over again... how amusing that you think otherwise. > Insisting that people are wrong and ignoring any arguments I'm [IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII-] close to just going screw it and saying "The Forbidden". Riot does not like it when I say "The Forbidden" though. Censorship is very strong here. Anyway you contiunally make terrible arguments that are easily refuted and it is insanely obvious why. > Let me make this clear to you. This game is over. That part is true, you were wildly outmatched from the very beginning on multiple fundamental levels. No idea why you thought you even had a chance but if I were......... ah ah ah, almost slipped up there, I'd probably make similar atrocious arguments too. The core argument is; * You balance a game based around people that know how to play, not people who don't. * The people that the ability to play the game (To a competent level of course) is Plat and above. * Bronze, Silver and Gold are just not relevant factors because they simply are not skilled enough yet. * This isn't even opinion, Riot has always balanced around this concept..... not around certain .... 'demographics'. I really really wish The Draconian System were not in place and people were free to express themselves, but Riot does not want that.
Ralanr (NA)
: Which one? There are a lot of comments.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-28T04:45:38.738+0000) > > Which one? There are a lot of comments. That doesn't really answer my question. Or let me be more specific, did you read the comment prior to your response?
: > [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=00060000000100000000,timestamp=2017-09-28T03:48:11.752+0000) > > Plats are okay. Golds are not. Below plat is irrelevant. > > Here's an idea, try addressing the core argument ; The game is balanced around people that know how to play, not people that don't. I can respond to this using the exact same post I responded to your last comment. Golds are in the top 33% of ranked players in a highly competitive game, which is strong evidence to the notion that they do in fact know how to play the game. Do you see the problem here? Your perception of this argument relies entirely on where you draw your arbitrarily lines of "this is where people know how to play" and "this is where they don't". Neglecting to acknowledge a population that can reliably win games against a majority of players twice their size as being good at the game does not validate your beliefs. If you feel stubbornly inclined to stick with that belief in spite of this reasoning, that's you. Like I said, I can't remove the stick up your ass. _**Anyways,**_ since you seem to acknowledge that Plat players know how to play, I'd like to point out that if you exclusively consider Plat+ players when assessing Garen's balance, Garen is still within 1.5% of a 50% win rate for 80% of the population being considered (as opposed to 98% if you consider the entire playerbase). **TL;DR:** You can choose to believe whatever you want about what ELOs "matter", but unless you go back on your own words and say that Plats miraculously stopped being decent at the game in the last half hour, refusing to admit Garen is balanced very simply defies all reason.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=000600000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-28T04:21:24.579+0000) > > Golds are ..... Irrelevant. There is no difference between gold, silver and bronze. You can pretend that there is, but there isn't. At plat level, players are decent, below that, people are still learning and that's fine, but you cannot pretend like people that do not yet know how to play the game are worth balancing the game over. Once they learn the basics, they will stop calling for nerfs to everything. Once again, I understand why you are trying to make this argument. I wish I could say it but Riot moderation does not like it when I point out facts. >as opposed to 98% if you consider the entire playerbase What's your point? again, you balance a game based on people that know how to play, not people who don't. What part of this are you not getting ? > refusing to admit Garen is balanced very simply defies all reason. What the.... You seem to be lost.
Ralanr (NA)
: SJW style rework? What drew you to that conclusion?
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=000200000000000000010000,timestamp=2017-09-28T04:14:36.790+0000) > > SJW style rework? > > What drew you to that conclusion? Did you read the previous comment?
: Newsflash: Golds and Plats are good at this game too. Being top 33% in a game with 100 million players that play is good. Diamonds represent the 2% of players that know how to play the game the best, not the only players who know how to play the game. Hitting me with the oversued "X ELO is the only one that matters" ain't gonna do shit bud. You're going to have to try harder. Next?
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=0006000000010000,timestamp=2017-09-27T15:52:00.839+0000) > >Golds and Plats are good at this game too. Plats are okay. Golds are not. Below plat is irrelevant. Here's an idea, try addressing the core argument ; The game is balanced around people that know how to play, not people that don't. **EDIT**: OH I see why you are making that argument. I should have expected it from the beginning... Ariel, what I told you during that match about this person, it was spot-on and by spot-on I mean absolutely 100% correct , as always.
Ralanr (NA)
: One can have fun with their work.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-27T19:07:22.849+0000) > > One can have fun with their work. While that is true, and doubly true for Evelynn, there's a big difference between "This character has fun when they work" and "This character's entire VA lines are about how they are having 'fun'", that's the kind of thing that should be reserved for characters like Draven, who is awesome... but not Evelynn. They royally botched Evelynn's VA and I will either have to silence her VA when I play or silence the entire game. The SJW style rework to her VA sound absolutely ruined her personality.
: This is coming from the same person who called Camille a parody, ignore and move on people.
> [{quoted}](name=Catastrop,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2017-09-27T17:08:04.230+0000) > > This is coming from the same person who called Camille a parody She is. But I wouldn't expect someone that doesn't know what she's a parody of to understand. You fail.
: Watching the special interactions I was initially wondering why she had no comments toward Warwick (considering he was literally crafted from pain) but after realizing everything was a sexual innuendo I was relieved. It's great for laughs and Lenny face but she really doesn't scare me what-so-ever. I was secretly hoping she'd be like a female {{champion:19}} with some foreboding game mechanic that just put you on the edge of your seat like Blood Hunt does. But now she's basically eye candy and some sexual humor. Oh well.
> [{quoted}](name=K9 Unit,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-27T09:43:42.337+0000) > > I was secretly hoping she'd be like a female {{champion:19}} with some foreboding game mechanic that just put you on the edge of your seat like Blood Hunt does. But now she's basically eye candy and some sexual humor. Oh well. That's exactly it.
: In league of anime everything has to be a reference or joke
> [{quoted}](name=ShaolinToilet,realm=NA,application-id=6kFXY1kR,discussion-id=8rLKahXH,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2017-09-27T06:53:51.251+0000) > > In league of anime everything has to be a reference or joke That's exactly what infuriates me. They took her from a serious vamp champ to a straight up parody.... everything is a reference or a joke, SJW/millenial style.
: This is so incredibility sad ._. You support your entire argument on 2 things: >Yeah every single melee except 70% of them. >Ironically, my original argument presents the same logic that Riot themselves do, classifying the characters in a fairly similar fashion as I did. You fail spectacularly. This first part isn't even true which you would know if you actually had some understanding of math, and the other thing you use as a support is the fact that at a time in the past riot used to use the classification of "bruisers". As if they didn't change it on the very basis that it had become useless x) "oh but riot used to do it so i am not wrong to do it myself!" is in reality what you are saying here, despite the fact that it was abandoned by riot themselves. Then since you don't even seem to know how to count..... First up, assassins and tanks together, including the support tanks, number 28. But without the support tanks they are 25, but i shall include them as well. So overall the divers, skirmishers and juggernauts number 34, meaning they make up for roughly 53 % of the overall melee champion population......thus by logic we know that the assassins and tanks are the remaining 47%. How is 47% the same as 70%? You accuse me of failing to bring forth evidence but i am starting to wonder if you are just incapable of understanding it since you quite clearly cant count! ._. Thus again, your arguments have no basis in reality and the evidence you use only serves to prove my claims instead. And you still insist on saying that i am the one that doesn't understand simple logic? You don't understand math and you use obsolete classifications abandoned by the very ones you claim to be the reason you use them. You have thus no credibility at all, no understanding of math which crumbles your first argument and the second is so pointless that Riot themselves gave up on it. Face it, bruisers is a old classifications that isn't usable for this game anymore, trying to insist otherwise is just making youself look even sillier than you already do. The proof of this? The one fact you can't argue about.....the fact that Riot choose to change on on the very basis that it wasn't working. (http://na.leagueoflegends.com/en/news/game-updates/gameplay/taking-another-look-subclasses) A link to the latest official page about the different subclasses for your perusal, you seem to be in dire need of it.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IdsAPAIs,comment-id=000400000000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-26T16:26:35.390+0000) > > This is so incredibility sad I wouldn't call it sad as much as it is boring, you are not a challenge and are wildly outmatched. > This first part isn't even true which you would know if you actually had some understanding of math and the other thing you use as a support is the fact that at a time in the past riot used to use the classification of "bruisers". As if they didn't change it on the very basis that it had become useless "oh but riot used to do it so i am not wrong to do it myself!" is in reality what you are saying here, despite the fact that it was abandoned by riot themselves. That's a whole lot of nothing. Maybe you should try presenting actual arguments. > First up, assassins and tanks together, including the support tanks, number 28. > But without the support tanks they are 25, but i shall include them as well. That's nice but inaccurate. > So overall the divers, skirmishers and juggernauts number 34 "Divers, skirmishers", surely you can point me to the point inside the game where this nomenclature is used? oh that's right, you can't, gg'd. >meaning they make up for roughly 53 % of the overall melee champion population......thus by logic we know that the assassins and tanks are the remaining 47%. That's not how that works, you Solana. You cannot classify an entire remaining group based purely on that statistic, obviously. Not to mention you're under-counting tanks and assassins. > How is 47% the same as 70%? 1- Those numbers are wrong. 2- I never said 70% was accurate, I said it was close, which it is. 3- That 47% is a joke (Refer to #1). >You accuse me of failing to bring forth evidence Stopped reading right there. You do not know what the word 'evidence' means, you almost came close with your attempted breakdown of the character's classified as tanks and assassins, but failed nonetheless. My money would be on you having attempted to get these numbers from some random wiki that does not properly classify assassins as assassins... and only has a very low number of tanks as actual tanks rather than the correct number... I.e. you are drastically lowballing the number to suit your extremely flimsy point. It's easy to see through, and pointless to continue. You have nothing of value to present.
: Well I'm sorry you can't appreciate the balance miracle that Riot managed to pull off with Garen, and I'm afraid I can't remove the piece of wood in your rectum without performing physical surgery. If you do not in fact have a piece of wood in your rectum, I apologize. You must understand that diagnosing symptoms over the internet is less than ideal, but this particular condition has been documented before in others of your ELO, and the mistake is genuine. If you would elaborate your reasoning, we might be able to come to an understanding, but as it stands, people who neglect to read an entire post and feel the need to comment about it generally have a stick up their ass, which is a hard thing to remedy.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=00060000,timestamp=2017-09-26T04:34:26.316+0000) > > Well I'm sorry you can't appreciate the balance Your argument is irrelevant; Balance is based around people that know how to play, not people that don't. This is not complicated. gg'd hard.... this wasn't even interesting, Arieeeel, you are the only challenge. Return to the boards, stop eating potato chips and gravy for 2 seconds and give me a challenge.
Rebonack (NA)
: Okay, so, what's Eve's new niche exactly?
Her kit is a lot better, but yeah her passive was butchered.
Rioter Comments
: Garen finally has a higher win rate than Darius in (almost) every ELO.
> [{quoted}](name=SzGamer227,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=kMI6X4ZG,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-26T00:53:04.040+0000) > > Garen finally has a higher win rate than Darius in (almost) every ELO. That's right. At every ELO except Diamond+ Stopped reading right there.
: I bring forward evidence to prove that your argument makes no sense and is incorrect ontop and you dismiss mine as flimsy? Someone doesn't seem even understand his own words ._. And to top things off you don't even present any kind of evidence to back your claim, all you do is make groundless statements and insult people on no basis other than your own opinion! Arguing with you is the very example of futility if you wish to act as such. >Yeah every single melee except 70% of them.... what horrid terminology. Oh wait. Indeed, you can't even count,nor do you realize why comparing something like the durability of a tank vs the durability of a juggernauts is pointless. Or why and how the 3 melee classes are different. You fail basic math and logic doesn't seem to be something you´re versed in.....and you're trying to say my reasoning is unsound? Right.
Alright since you insist on continuing your nonsense, let's rip you apart with ease... > [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IdsAPAIs,comment-id=0004000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-25T13:37:56.588+0000) > > I bring forward evidence You did not "bring forward evidence", you spewed nonsense. Ironically, my original argument presents the same logic that Riot themselves do, classifying the characters in a fairly similar fashion as I did. You fail spectacularly. > And to top things off you don't even present any kind of evidence Uhh you mean aside from stating _Yeah every single melee except 70% of them_ which is fairly close to the statistic in question. Do you even know what the word 'evidence' means? > Arguing with you is the very example of futility if you wish to act as such. I tend to agree. You were completely outmatched from the beginning. I require someone with significantly greater quality arguments, like Ariel. > Indeed, you can't even count,nor do you realize why comparing something like the durability of a tank vs the durability of a juggernauts is pointless. Or why and how the 3 melee classes are different. Again, a whole lot of nothing. > You fail basic math Pointless garbage. >and logic doesn't seem to be something you´re versed in The irony is quite thick. >trying to say my reasoning is unsound? It's not about your "reasoning being unsound" it's that you're not saying anything of substance, you're talking is nonsense is my point. It's really not that complicated.... your nomenclature was garbage and I called it out, gg'd hard.
: Even If we don't exclude the support tanks that fundamentally work in a different way compared to jungle and toplane tanks, the divers and skirmishers and juggernauts outnumber the assassins and tanks. Thus saying brusiers is hella confusing since it includes 3 different classes that all play differently, build differently and often even counter eachother class wise in regards to certain things. They are just so different that bundling them up in a single group and making a statement about the group as a whole automatically becomes incorrect, because they are too diverse! Learn what the heck you are on about before you make statements that have little support in reality and reason.
That was a whole lot of nothing. Your argument was flimsy, fact. Nothing further needs to be said.
: Bruisers is not a understandable terminology, it includes pretty much every single melee except assassins and tanks,but including tryndamere and Fiora into a huge bundle without any particular characteristics. Divers, juggernatus and skirmishers are the current non tank or assassin melee classes. And price changes do matter, something proven very clearly by the changes to marksmen items if anything. But they could not go too far since it's only an item component, even if it is a strong one.
> [{quoted}](name=Thefrostyviking,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IdsAPAIs,comment-id=000400000000,timestamp=2017-09-23T16:00:31.049+0000) > > Bruisers is not a understandable terminology, it includes pretty much every single melee except assassins and tanks Yeah every single melee except 70% of them.... what horrid terminology. Oh wait.
: Can armor actually feel like its doing something
Armor does feel wildly underpowered....
Dealth (NA)
: "removing our favorite champion" Evelynn is our favorite champion? LOL
> [{quoted}](name=Dealth,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=Kt40eZKO,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-09-22T20:27:16.928+0000) > > Evelynn is our favorite champion? You should read the OP again.
: ***
> [{quoted}](name=Batpool Uchiha,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=uPMmBdgq,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-09-21T22:41:22.984+0000) > > Well that's lovely. > It is a fact that they are faceroll, brokenly OP champs. Multiple extremely low CD , easy-to-use escape mechanisms. Manaless. Highest in-class stats for each of them. In Yasuo's case , hyper scaler. In Lee Sin's case, scales harder than over 90% of the cast, with only hyper scalers cleanly outscaling him. These two champ are brain-dead easy to play and brokenly overpowered.
LankPants (OCE)
: >Under optimal, ridiculously specific circumstances, which a Trynd would easily escape from. Next. You think Sejuani's stun requires insanely optimal circumstances? That's complete BS. It's insanely easy to Q forward, W and AA after for 3 stacks of passive, from there you just need 1 more AA from either yourself or an ally and you're set. As for getting a max duration stun, that's really easy. You just move back a few units, good Sej players learned to do this within days of her rework, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to work out. You have more than enough time even with just boots 1 to move back to a range where your R is a 2 second stun from melee range after Eing. >I'm pretty sure it's less than 0.5 seconds, that was just an estimate on my part. It's 0.5 seconds http://leagueoflegends.wikia.com/wiki/Sejuani >The slow does not last 0.5 seconds. And a slow is a very soft disable as it is. Fail again. It does last 0.5 seconds, it has the exact same duration as her Q. I tested this in a custom VS a target dummy, it lands at the same time the W debuff wears off assuming you time W2 with Q. >Sure, Trynd can 50 second stun , you just have to kill your opponent, he will just stand there, click him and then he will be stunned. Therefore, Trynd has the longest stun in the game. Stop trying to defend your freelo son. Sej is a disgusting champion who's broken by design. I know this better than anyone, it takes skill to lose an evenly matched game on Sej, she pretty much wins for free.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIBLPLLn,comment-id=0009000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-21T06:29:21.023+0000) > > You think Sejuani's stun requires insanely optimal circumstances? Do you even know what the word "optimal" means? >That's complete BS. It's insanely easy to Q forward, W and AA after for 3 stacks of passive, from there you just need 1 more AA from either yourself or an ally and you're set. There is so much wrong with the above quoted, but let's start with the fact that in order for that to occur you need to land absolutely everything. If your opponent is dumb enough to just stand there and let yo land everything, they deserve to get stunned. Not to mention "from either yourself or an ally", you must mean a MELEE ally because surely you must know that ranged strikes do not count towards passive count. Fail. > As for getting a max duration stun, that's really easy. For what ? the ult? against a Trynd? define 'easy'. > Stop trying to defend your freelo son. Sej is a disgusting champion who's broken by design. You're thinking of Yasuo/Lee/Zed. Brain-dead faceroll brokenly op champs. Sejuani does not have that luxury.... but at this point I have exactly 1 suspicion as to why you're making such terrible arguments. Yep, confirmed.... Riot has told me not to make this statement even if it's true so I will not make it, but I know what I need to know now.
Rioter Comments
LankPants (OCE)
: CC=/=stun. Sej's full combo stuns for 4 seconds, knocks up for 0.5 seconds and slows for at least 0.5 seconds, realistically 1 second since you can easily W twice in this chain. It's easy for Sej to chain CC a champ for 5 seconds. >Requires DISTANCE It stuns for 2 seconds at about 350 range. It's easy to walk back and get the 2 second stun in a ranked E stun duration.
> [{quoted}](name=LankPants,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIBLPLLn,comment-id=00090000,timestamp=2017-09-21T02:19:22.509+0000) > > CC=/=stun. What's your point? That not only does not contradict what I said, it drastically reinforces it. Fail. > Sej's full combo stuns for 4 seconds Under optimal, ridiculously specific circumstances, which a Trynd would easily escape from. Next. >knocks up for 0.5 seconds I'm pretty sure it's less than 0.5 seconds, that was just an estimate on my part. >and slows for at least 0.5 seconds The slow does not last 0.5 seconds. And a slow is a very soft disable as it is. Fail again. >realistically 1 second since you can easily W twice LOL. Sure, Trynd can 50 second stun , you just have to kill your opponent, he will just stand there, click him and then he will be stunned. Therefore, Trynd has the longest stun in the game.
Arcyyy (NA)
: Just played a game as sejuani.
> [{quoted}](name=HextechHighHeels,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=BIBLPLLn,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-09-19T23:39:44.513+0000) > > Was able to CC a tryndamere for the entire duration of his ultimate singlehandedly. Nope. I'm not sure why people feel the need to lie... even Sejuani's full rotation does not stun for 5 full seconds. The most you could potentially hope for is 4.5 seconds and that's under absolute optimal circumstances , which will NEVER happen in game (I.e. fully stacked passive, longest duration ult stun [Requires DISTANCE], and landing Q). Let me make a reverse claim; "Just played a game as Tryndamere, Sejuani couldn't even keep me stunned for 1 second, LOL"
Yenn (NA)
: Sejuani is 6-2-4 and is able to dive my 3-2-7 Vel'koz from 100% health under a turret
: > [{quoted}](name=Dominick Destine,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG99kEgg,comment-id=0005,timestamp=2017-09-15T21:49:29.915+0000) > > He doesn't have diplomatic immunity. > > His shield only protects from damage and it is only within a specific outer radius. Saying this is like diplomatic immunity is like saying Unstoppable Onslaught is like Unstoppable Force. What's unstoppable onslaught? I know the second one is malphs ult...
> [{quoted}](name=Cant Hold Me Now,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EG99kEgg,comment-id=00050000,timestamp=2017-09-15T23:51:52.976+0000) > > What's unstoppable onslaught? I know the second one is malphs ult... {{champion:14}}
Rioter Comments
: Xin Zhao has Diplomatic Immunity?
He doesn't have diplomatic immunity. His shield only protects from damage and it is only within a specific outer radius. Saying this is like diplomatic immunity is like saying Unstoppable Onslaught is like Unstoppable Force.
: Wait why are there Zeke's nerfs on the pbe
Yeah this lateral change is pointless. Zeke's Convergence needs a straight buff.
: Perhaps, or perhaps not. If I remember correctly Sona wasn't really having _that_ much trouble before Censer was overbearing, so I'd probably honestly be fine with little. I honestly prefer Sona seeing little play.
> [{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zteEByN5,comment-id=001200000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-15T17:46:53.046+0000) > > If I remember correctly Sona wasn't really having that much trouble before Censer was overbearing Sona was one of the worst supports in the game with almost zero reason to ever pick her. Ardent Censer's massive synergy with Sona's W gave her a reason to ever be picked. Removing this places her firmly within the "There is no reason to play her instead of X". >I honestly prefer Sona seeing little play That's a strange thing to say. Sona has a strong trade-off for her , wait, what does she have that is strong now? she has low MS, very low defensive stats (Only Zyra has worse defensive stats than Sona), Sona has high mana costs and does NOT have any hard disable outside of her ult, which is one of the worst ults in the game. The only time Sona has been strong was before her rework/blanket nerfs. Ardent Censer gave her a chance to do something more.
: Sona will be fine, honestly. That's what happens when you're a generalist, the specialists can cause indirect nerfs. But maybe thats because I hate it when Sona is actually meta. I just prefer her to be just playable.
> [{quoted}](name=Daedric Etwahl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zteEByN5,comment-id=0012000000000000,timestamp=2017-09-15T03:12:01.531+0000) > > Sona will be fine, honestly. That's what happens when you're a generalist, the specialists can cause indirect nerfs. That's correct, but in some instances in the past, characters that relied heavily on an item that got nerfed would get compensation buffs. Sona could really stand to use one here given how she was only barely starting to see play exclusively because of her interaction with Ardent Censer.
Death Rex (EUW)
: I think the increased AA range is for the sole purpose of her being able to buy the blue support item instead of the coin
> [{quoted}](name=Death Rex,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zteEByN5,comment-id=000c,timestamp=2017-09-14T19:44:33.099+0000) > > I think the increased AA range is for the sole purpose of her being able to buy the blue support item instead of the coin Coin will still be a lot better. Coin is broken.
: Ardent is what makes Sona relevant as a healer, if you nerf Ardent's benefits you nerf Sona who is the weakest healer in the game
> [{quoted}](name=Primaquarius,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zteEByN5,comment-id=00120000,timestamp=2017-09-14T22:17:07.508+0000) > > Ardent is what makes Sona relevant as a healer, if you nerf Ardent's benefits you nerf Sona who is the weakest healer in the game The nerf is coming. Sigh... Sona was finally becoming viable. She wasn't even top tier support, but moderate/viable and she gets indirectly gutted. Thanks Riot.
Akahrî (NA)
: {{sticker:sg-janna}} Why Increase cd on her shield in the early game to 18??????
: As someone who never played Soraka before her rework, I was kinda interested in seeing what her old Q was, given that it had such skill expression. So, I looked it up, and it tuned out to be this: Starcall RANGE: 530 COST: 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 MANA COOLDOWN: 2.5 ACTIVE: Soraka summons a shower of stars to fall from the sky, striking all nearby enemy units within range for magic damage and reducing their magic resistance by 6 (+ 1% AP) for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to 10 times. MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 40% AP) If Starcall hits at least one enemy champion, Astral Blessing's cooldown is reduced by a percentage of its base cooldown (after factoring in cooldown reduction). ASTRAL BLESSING'S COOLDOWN REDUCTION: 10 / 11.25 / 12.5 / 13.75 / 15% How is there any form of skill in this ability? Spam Q, shred enemies, heal allies.
> [{quoted}](name=TheHappyReaperz,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=zteEByN5,comment-id=001d,timestamp=2017-09-14T23:44:54.850+0000) > > As someone who never played Soraka before her rework, I was kinda interested in seeing what her old Q was, given that it had such skill expression. So, I looked it up, and it tuned out to be this: > Starcall > RANGE: 530 > COST: 30 / 40 / 50 / 60 / 70 MANA > COOLDOWN: 2.5 > > ACTIVE: Soraka summons a shower of stars to fall from the sky, striking all nearby enemy units within range for magic damage and reducing their magic resistance by 6 (+ 1% AP) for 5 seconds. This effect stacks up to 10 times. > MAGIC DAMAGE: 40 / 65 / 90 / 115 / 140 (+ 40% AP) > If Starcall hits at least one enemy champion, Astral Blessing's cooldown is reduced by a percentage of its base cooldown (after factoring in cooldown reduction). > ASTRAL BLESSING'S COOLDOWN REDUCTION: 10 / 11.25 / 12.5 / 13.75 / 15% > > How is there any form of skill in this ability? Spam Q, shred enemies, heal allies. He was talking about the pre-reworked Q which had a center sweet spot, not the classic Locket-spam Soraka. Fail.
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Dominick Destine

Level 30 (NA)
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