: Source on them being "very surprised" by his early performance? Because from what I recall, they clearly stated that power level might be off initially but that they would adjust quickly after release. And they did.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=yOe5FROl,comment-id=000f000000000001,timestamp=2017-03-23T20:32:03.289+0000) > > Source on them being "very surprised" by his early performance? Because from what I recall, they clearly stated that power level might be off initially but that they would adjust quickly after release. And they did. Meddler said it, can't find the thread where he said that to someone. I remember it clearly. The hotfix was in a response to how much his win rate dropped and he stated they were surprised to see it drop that much.
: That's not ever possible. Ever.
Not with current limited thinking and shit game theory practices that Riot uses.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 23
Get rid of plants. You gave an entire ability to champions that otherwise don't have the ability to jump or pass through walls. Meaning that strong champions that might lack that ability now have it. It homogenizes champions and makes their differences less important. Its a huge buff to champions that jungle that don't have a way to get over walls. Champions that can already get over walls get little value you out of it.
: "by asses do you mean the same method" That gave me a bit of a chuckle there.
: Rito has stated they eventually want to rework runes. I agree fully that they are BS, but sadly it's what we have to deal with for the moment. Luckily rito has said they want to examine the usefulness of runes over all, that way it won't be troll to take things like scaling energy and random stuff like that.
Its just a product of myopic business thinking on their part. They figured people would was IP on bs runes, thus forcing people to play more to earn more IP, which means a greater chance of buying RP for boots or new champions. When instead, if they make a system that allows more combinations and greater variety of viable rune pages, they will get the cash flow from people buying tons of runes, but this time it will also be actually making the game better.
Meddler (NA)
: Need to assess 7.6 to figure that out. Top lane performance looks at least close ish to appropriate, jungle more likely to need help.
By assess do you mean the some method that left you very surprised at how is win rate plummeted after the changes? Forgive us if we question Riot's ability to analyze and assess when inevitable and obvious results happen that leave Riot surprised. Aatrox has serious issues that the community has posted hundreds of posts about and you guys do not engage in dialogue with us. What is up with that?
: Did Riot's balance team go on a drinking party this PBE patch?
Riots balance team makes changes based on how it will drive sales.
Rioter Comments
: Lol sorry if my comment was hard to comprehend. What I meant by it is that his "3 paragraph theme" does mention his intervention in losing battles. Why give him an ability that works far better when ahead than behind? He isn't an oppressor or a blood hunter. And if it wasn't obvious for ya he's obviously a magical being thus shooting magical blades at the cost of his own blood makes thematic sense. Hope it makes more sense to you now
"Lol sorry if my comment was hard to comprehend. What I meant by it is that his "3 paragraph theme" does mention his intervention in losing battles. Why give him an ability that works far better when ahead than behind? He isn't an oppressor or a blood hunter." Geezus fine, reverse it and give him bonus movement speed during Hellbent based on HIS missing health. Happy?
Rioter Comments
dynikus (NA)
: there are literally buffs going to aatrox tonight when the patch hits.
Haha those changes won't substantially increase his win rate. Those changes help him after he revives. REVIVING is the problem currently. Don't be daft.
: The riot team is composed of chimpanzee, and even worse, Ghostcrawler. Hell, common sense is enough to tell that those changes would be enough, and they couldn't even figure it out by playtesting it???
Yup. It boggles the mind. Its like egos and agendas are more important.
Rioter Comments
Crett (NA)
: Riot isnt just going to leave him like this
Sure they won't because that NEVER happens with champions....oh, wait, yes it does all the fucking time.
: If this is Rick Maher's idea of a good rework...he might need to be fired...or reassigned.
Well what do you expect from a nerdy ugly weak pathetic nerd who is detached from reality?
: Easy way to FIX AATROX
Yes. I see many players suggesting this. I think its very reasonable. If only Riot every paid attention to us.
: Bring AP scaling back to Aatrox E
Not only that, the magic damage was great poke in lane even if you weren't going AP. Also, things like {{item:3146}} were very strong on Aatrox if he was going for a mixed damage build...that option is now gone.
: lacks{{champion:82}} movement{{champion:82}} speed{{champion:82}}
: Doesn't fit the theme. Just give him the same effect Vlad has on his Blood Rush: slight MS boost for a split second when reaching Blood Rush, refreshing on-hit like Phage.
Haha doesn't fit the 3 paragraph theme? What about his theme says he can't have abilities that do stuff and things? Does his theme talk about shooting magic out of his sword? You are ridiculous
Meddler (NA)
: We haven't found passive changes we're happy with. Might end up going with simpler power buffs as a result and then revisit the passive again at some point.
Her Claw is a tad too slow, especially compared to the speed that many new champions can execute their moves. Bump up the speed of the claw and her win rate will go up.
Meddler (NA)
: It's possible we nerfed Rammus and Malphite for being too strong when they were just good meta reactions, I admit it's been long enough I can't recall the details from 5.24 and 6.4 respectively. We want to separate out genuinely overpowered from temporarily effective due to game state, we'll certainly get it wrong sometimes though.
I dont know about Rammus but the fact that full tank Malphite can ALSO do the MOST damage in a game means his potential is already strong. He doesn't need a buff. He does a role very well.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 20
AHEM, what about Aatrox's awful win rate?
: Make his E tag enemies for 5? seconds that grants a speed boost towards them.
yeah Ive thought of something like that too. Maybe Aatrox should simply gain movement speed towards any champion that is bleeding and his E should cause bleeding
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: What I don't understand is why his ultimate doesn't fill up, at the very least, 20% of his bloodwell upon cast. What a lazy rework, I'm still embarrassed for Riot for releasing something so unpolished.
: Woah woah. Look, we're all on team Buff Aatrox Into Viability. Let's not be hostile.
F that. People come onto my post, which is reasonable and try to say that Aatrox is basically fine, and their arguments are very subejctive, myopic and close minded.
: > [{quoted}](name=Hochelaga,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GhFWxEHY,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:44:08.682+0000) > > So before you make any non sense comments about how I play heimerdinger, I suggest you make more research on my profile instead of just dropping a sneak peak. > > - I've played Heimerdinger since season 3 and average about 80 ranked games on Heimerdinger each season (the most being 155 on season 3 and 40 on season 6). That being said, I've played over 600 Heimerdingers games. > - I have tried Hundreds of build on Heimerdinger and found out that Morello Zhonya and Abyssal happens to be pretty good on him. I do not always build these 3 items on every game. Go check for yourself. > - You not being level 30 tells me alot about your experience on this game > - I believe that you've never played Heimerdinger > - Unless you are someone who has played at least 100 games with Heimerdinger, I don't think that I should listen to you you got downvoted becuse youre a fool. You use a smurf forum account to judge a players knowledge? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 100 games? homie ive been at league since season 1 when TF had his fucking global ult on a skill bar that was actually global. 100 games on any champion is chump change, i have well over 15k games under my belt in this game. Come back when you understand the balance
Oh I see you are obnoxious and arrogant on all of your posts. You must be so insufferable in real life.
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=00020000000100000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:35:00.710+0000) > > Haha how have you proved me wrong? You agree that Aatrox is weak right now right? > > So there are a few options > > 1)buff his base stats > 2)change/buff his passive > 3)buff his abilities > > If i argued he need more base stats, you would argue against me. I argue his passive needs movement boost, you argue it, if were to argue his abilities needed buffing, you would argue that. > > That is just what you do. So there is no point. type so much but really you say very little. i agreed he was weak? no i agreed his passive needed a 5% tweak on his abilities filling his bloodwell to make him feel smoothe and well rounded. I play aatrox just fine. Feel free to continue posting, i will no longer reply to someone with an IQ lower than an apple
This is my post. You are free to not reply to future posts.
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=0002000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:13:04.327+0000) > > Name me which top laners don't have a way to increase their movement speed? no one is saying they dont have a way to increase their move speed, but if you insist {{champion:23}} - has a mobility ability but no way to increase actual move speed {{champion:58}} - has a mobility ability but no way to increase actual move speed {{champion:75}} - has no way to increase move speed {{champion:133}} - asside from ult which is an ENGAGE, has no way to increase actual move speed {{champion:164}} - has a mobility ability ( 2 actually ) has no way to increase move speed {{champion:122}} - has no way to increase actual move speed {{champion:114}} - has a mobility ability, but no way to increase actual move speed {{champion:41}} - has no way to increase his move speed {{champion:67}} -not typically a top laner but ( her passive increases her engage speed, but not disengage ) outside that has no way to increase move speed I could go on, but i just gave you plenty of cases where youre wrong. If you cant stick to a target, the issue is still YOU and YOUR build, and missing your skill shots / abilities, and has nothing to do with aatrox's kit.
{{champion:23}} {{champion:122}} do way more damage. They have built in crits and true damage. {{champion:58}} does way more damage and has a better and harder to predict hard CC, and his dash gives him very good mobility {{champion:133}} is not melee nor comparable. She doesn't factor into this debate {{champion:75}} has 5 more base movement speed. And if you say it doesnt matter, than there should be no reason not to let Aatrox start at 350 as well {{champion:164}} has incredibly mobility and also gets to do all sorts of mixed damage, unlike Aatrox {{champion:114}} can block incoming damage and do way more damage than Aatrox. {{champion:41}} Innate: Gangplank's next basic attack burns the target, dealing 30 - 200 (based on level) (+ 100% bonus AD) bonus true damage over 2.5 seconds and granting Gangplank Trial by Fire2 30% bonus movement speed for 2 seconds. Turrets receive 「 50% reduced damage 」. Nice research on that one. And you can't go on. Generally speaking the ones you listed are champions that are compensated by having more damage and better CC and/or defensive abilities like parrying or gaining instead health or resistances. So I am fine with Aatrox not having extra movement speed in his kit if he gets some magic damage, true damage, %health damage or a way to reduce incoming damage.
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=0002000100000001,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:15:15.321+0000) > > Very Valid. Stop trying to argue this. Aatrox chase is one of the worst in the game for a fighter or bruiser no hes not. You simply play him poorly MR.ONETRICK even though youre at 7/30 games with aatrox in match history
Really? Lets consider the fact that now you build less damage on him and his blood price does less damage..that means even if you catch up to en enemy you aren't going to kill them as quickly as you would used to.
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=000200000001000000000000,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:21:15.890+0000) > > No. The fact that the first thing you thought to do when you disagreed with me is try to prop yourself up and cut me down shows that you are not a person worth talking to. there is no cutting you down, only you being proven wrong over and over and over and over and over, and youre just posting in here because you lost a game with aatrox and not because of any other reason
Haha how have you proved me wrong? You agree that Aatrox is weak right now right? So there are a few options 1)buff his base stats 2)change/buff his passive 3)buff his abilities If i argued he need more base stats, you would argue against me. I argue his passive needs movement boost, you argue it, if were to argue his abilities needed buffing, you would argue that. That is just what you do. So there is no point. type so much but really you say very little.
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=0002000000010000,timestamp=2017-03-20T19:11:59.208+0000) > > Okay, well if you are not smart enough to figure out that this is a new account, you shouldn't comment on my post. I have thousands and thousands of ranked Aatrox games. Stop trying to stroke your own ego and cut me down by looking at the match history and ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND ARGUMENTS. go ahead and post the names of those accounts since you wanna turn to being toxic or better yet get on one of them and post on here
No. The fact that the first thing you thought to do when you disagreed with me is try to prop yourself up and cut me down shows that you are not a person worth talking to.
: > [{quoted}](name=Troy242621,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=00020001,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:49:26.162+0000) > > My experience has been that, outside of early game, if you use Q to go in, you're getting CCed or they're popping a mobility skill and you'll never see them again, assuming you even land it. If you save it in anticipation of this, they'll outrun you before you can drop bork/smite. > > Granted I'm no Aatrox one trick, so pardon my anecdote. you have a valid point, but again it comes down to knowing when to use an ability and when not to. realistically he NEEDS the 25% of his passive instead of the current 20% per ability to make it useful. Too often, you have to use E and Q randomly just to stack it to 2-3 to make an all in even viable ( granted his ult gives 20% PER target hit with it, but usually this is only 1-2 targets, sometimes 3 ) this is why he needs it to be 25% per ability
Very Valid. Stop trying to argue this. Aatrox chase is one of the worst in the game for a fighter or bruiser
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:45:27.085+0000) > > As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100. > > I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better. > > With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK. malphite can spam Q on you all day long... plus... why would you chase a TANK? jhin cant out run you, if youre getting kited by jhin, youre playing aatrox very VERY wrong. he can hit you then root you, very telegraphed. His move speed is negligable because landing a single E lets you stick to him unless you miss that or your Q. Also you should be bursting him 100-0 ( you probably run fervor when you should be running thunderlords ) as far as black cleaver, theres better options given the current aatrox kit ( granted phylol hasnt posted a video on new good builds so people think the old shit is still whats best, when its really not ) {{item:3153}} {{item:3124}} {{item:3047}} {{item:3046}} {{item:3143}} this is your new core: 6th item is your choice Tiamat / hydras have no place in the new aatrox setup You need guinsoos for double proc opression Randuins helps with crit / sticking / heavy range damage Tabis are obvious expecially with lethality Phantom isnt for the chase, its for the 12% reductiona and attack speed which synergizes stupidly well with tabis / phantom MR is covered by scaling blues, or you can opt for an MR item, but its typically pointless. Black cleavers shred isnt neccesary, nor is its HP / damage. About the only reason to take BC is for the CDR which isnt really that helpful because aatrox is primarily AA based, and his ult is already a very low CD Regardless of whos a one trick or not, adaptation is the only way to excell. The slow on randuins is so undervalued in aatrox its actually kinda funny. Q-> randuin -> botrk-> E = damn near 8-10 seconds of slows, which gives your Q time to refresh, if you havent killed your target by this point, youre probably gonna die Ghost + flash are the ONLY viable summoners unless you jungle. Exhaust / ignite serve little use compared to these 2. We can debate all day, this is my 2 cents, take it or leave it, but aatrox is actually getting better when you learn to manage his passive at 4 stacks, but i do agree 100% that he should get 25% per ability whether its reducing the passive to 80 and making each give him 20 flat, or keeping it at 100 and making the abilities grant 25 flat
Name me which top laners don't have a way to increase their movement speed?
: > [{quoted}](name=DonnieDarkin,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=xon89PqB,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-03-20T17:45:27.085+0000) > > As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100. > > I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better. > > With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK. Just another response to your post in your last 30 games you have 7 aatrox games in my last 30 games, i have 29 aatrox games. Maining vs 1 trick is slightly different.
Okay, well if you are not smart enough to figure out that this is a new account, you shouldn't comment on my post. I have thousands and thousands of ranked Aatrox games. Stop trying to stroke your own ego and cut me down by looking at the match history and ADDRESS THE TOPIC AND ARGUMENTS.
Rioter Comments
: as a one trick aatrox, his passive needs 1 adjustment, to be capped at 80 and not 100 so its actually viable to proc it when needed. Take ghost / flash if youre laning, flash / blue smite if youre jungling, he doesnt need mobility, he needs his passive to be more accessable
As a 1 trick as well, what are you saying is the same as making his abilties and W fill 25% percent. I would rather keep the nice while number of 100. I always run ghost for the very reason that his chase is so poor. I would run flash if his chase was better. With respect, I think you are very much underestimating the overall negative effect of an Aatrox not being able to chase down a malphite or Jihn while he has Black Cleaver and BOTRK.
: They could just throw a flat MS boost onto Massacre, since you pretty much **need** your ultimate to sustain your passive anyways. That way it's less universally accessible and limited solely to his all-ins. Because of his massive cooldowns and profoundly telegraphed CC, there is still ample counterplay; juke the CC (possible without using mobility, so it's universal counterplay), CC him or focus him down to pop his passive.
That could work too. Also what could work is just move his base movement speed to 350. There is no reason for him to be moving at 345 while Nasus moves at 350 for some reason.
Ralanr (NA)
: Wouldn't building BC help with chasing?
Yes, but so can any champion. And they mostly all have movement abilities plus a way to increase movement speed. This deficit in Aatrox's kit restricts this build options as well as being inferior to other champions movement abilities.
Rioter Comments

DonnieDarkin

Level 30 (NA)
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