: You keep comparing her to divers but she's a skirmisher now. Diver was old Irelia with her massive tenacity, ult heal and click target stun. Her W is more akin to Yi W. > She doesn't get a substantial shield or healing capability Yasuo has a shield but it basically equates to Irelia's Q heals and he survives just fine.
Is she a skirmisher? She still builds like a Diver. She doesn't build anything like Yasuo, Riven, Tryndamere, or Fiora.
: Ima just copypasta > [{quoted}](name=Z3Sleeper,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAg1E2tn,comment-id=00020000000000000001000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-24T20:17:48.509+0000) > > Champions with in-fight mobility *should not* have the same defensive tools that champions without in-fight mobility have.
Which is why she get's the caveat, that she *has* to stand still for hers, unlike every other diver. She doesn't get a substantial shield or healing capability while being on the move, she only gets her damage reduction when she stands still. A trade off.
: In-fight mobility. Vi has initiation and in-fight her Q needs to be charged (which is cancelled via CC) to really go anywhere. Camille/Hecarim/Rhaast same situation. Mobility to get in, not in-fight mobility.
Irelia has only in-fight mobility, stuff to get in but not to get out, unless there's a lucky minion. Doesn't make 'em invincible.
: So long as Celerity, Absolute Focus, Waterwalking, Transcendence, Scorch and Gathering Storm exist I highly doubt it would become mandatory for secondary users. Primary users however I said somewhere else have Manaflow and Nimbus to choose from as well. Some NEED nimbus. Idk about Manaflow though.
You underestimate the strength of a free shield that works against anything.
Dr Mercy (NA)
: A lot of the clips from your montage don't hold up, or are the results of severely fed people/some of the squishiest champions. Garen x Zyra: IE is no longer good alone as an item, Zyra has a low base health + no health items Kayn x Zyra: Wow, he landed all his abilities and she died. He has 5 items, Zyra has 2. He was fed, not representative. Rengar x Lucian: IE is no longer good without an item/innate Critting, Rengar no longer Auto-crits his ult, Rengar has 5 items to Lucian's 2. Nasus x Sivir: Nasus has 200 farm at 20 minutes and Triforce and a BF, while Sivir has one full item, and Nasus is 4 levels above her. Galio x Caitlyn: He has 3 levels on Caitlyn, and that was obviously during the patch where Galio was literally busted. Not a fair example. Karma x Everyone: Wow, the 18/1 Karma did a lot of damage. *What. A. Surprise.* Jhin x Varus: Jhin has 4 levels on Varus, is very easily implied that he's probably fed in comparison against poor Vaarus. Gragas x Ziggs: I'll give you this one, but that's my bias against Gragas. That said, he's building as a Burst mage, he'll do Burst mage damage. Graves x Cait: I'll give ya this, but I really can't commentate much when it comes to the replays. No items, K/D/A, or context but levels. I'ma just skip Replays unless there's something obvious. Gangplank x Lulu: He's 6 levels above, fed, and full build. :Think: Crit-Thresh x Lux: Crit Thresh is outlier af, he's always been able to do that at max build. Vayne Penta: A Blue Moon, and still not proving your point Shaco x Syndra: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but almost valid point. Gangplank x Ori: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but Gangbuddy has level and gold advantage. Cait x Twitch: Vlad ult amps damage, and we don't know Caitlyn's fed status. TF x Trist: This is really representative of how shit this montage is as proof, since this is back when Abyssal Sceptor still had it's old Art. TF was fed, next. Jhin Triple: They got meme'd from triple traps. Syndra x Varus: 7 Orb ult, Syndra no longer has triple Orb grab. I'm gonna stop here cause I want to keep learning stuff, but your montage isn't proof. It's grabbing all these outlier kills from Fed champions, rare circumstances/meme-builds that have always worked that way, or ignoring any and all context from the kills themselves, and the champions involved. Your montage is a shit example, and proves nothing, there is plenty of better evidence out there, go find it instead of copping out for Click-bait Montages of Fed Champions, and a rare few examples (that are scattered amongst a timeline of years)
: So are u saying that yi cant kill champs with all defensive items? Oh, hi true damage! And about dodging.. try to run away from this champs without flash: -zed -rengar -yi -lb -fizz -kha zix -kayn And others ... -
Yi can kill anyone given enough time. Having full defense items just makes that needed time longer. As for needing dodging, you also have a team, and typically a front line that's between you and the Assassin. Dodging isn't the only counterplay out there, as to which I said 'seeking help from allies'. Assassins are weaker when you group for a reason, because it's now harder to do their job.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=OAg1E2tn,comment-id=000200000000,timestamp=2018-06-24T18:52:51.528+0000) > > Irelia's natural defense is her damage reduction**, her massive in-fight mobility, stun and disarm**. ftfy
Vi has CC and Mobility, along with unstoppability. Camille has her massive range enrage, into CC, and her Knock-back cage. Hecarim has a giant AOE Fear along side a giant dash. Rhaast has his immense healing, low CD W, and intargetibility. So she has CC, most divers do. They still need something to help themselves when they can't stun all 5 enemies of the enemy team.
: Why is Nullifying Orb only effective vs magic damage?
The reason that Riot has stated, is that when they did it for both damage types, the shield was either always too weak, or mandatory on everyone. By limiting it to one, they can have an even ground/niche for the rune.
: Every other champ that has that problem has to buy {{item:3053}}, why is Irelia any different?
Most Divers have an effective way to stay in a fight naturally. Camille has her Shield, Vi her shields, Hecarim his healing, Rhaast his healing, etc. Irelia's natural defense is her damage reduction, that she only gets by staying still.
: I understand the desire for a balanced game more than anyone, however, a game with 100+ characters is NEVER going to be balanced. IMO once you hit the threshold of 45+ you abandon any hope of a truly balanced game. 100+ = legitimately 0 actual way to make every single champ equally as good as one another. The primary reason why I like new champs is because I play based on the champs archetype. I don't care about how strong {{champion:516}} actually is, i just like the idea of playing as a blacksmith goat god, By making cooler archetypes into other roles, it'll attract people who like those archetypes into them. I'm typically not a big fan of the assassin class but {{champion:91}} is just too cool for me not to like him.
Hell, look at Overwatch. What they got, like 20 heroes, and somehow they still take months for a single patch?
GigglesO (NA)
: Cho gath is a tank... I really didn’t want to do this or say this but I’m not going to stand here and get told that something with 5k hp and 73% DR is not a tank I’m just going to say this, because I’m done arguing with a fool. You are the reason diamond players make fun of low mmr players. Literally every game I’m in has a zed, rengar, talon, fizz, leblanc, or other assassin. I started a smurf account, and I played in bronze with some friends, players in your mmr and lower are actually just slow at the game, which is probably why you think assassins are bad. While I was in silver I had a 12-3 average KD on Morde, the slowest champion in the game. I have a 3-6 KD on him in diamond. But what the fuck do I know? I am definitely not stuck in silver, and I haven’t been playing the game since fucking season 1 and played through all the metas including the season 1 healing meta that we don’t talk about. Honestly assassins in your mmr are awful, but it’s not the champs. It’s because you combo too slowly to do your job. The game is 100% different between bronze and diamond. P.S. go search the boards 5 months ago when players were complaining that chogath a TANK was one shooting squishies. You really are just trying to pull things out of your ass trying to get a response out of me.
Cho'gath is neither a Vanguard nor a Warden. If anything, he is closer to Juggernaut, due to the fact that he's a slow moving, potentially high damage dealing target, that needs to be kited to deal with. Darius isn't a tank, Garen isn't a tank, and they can still be tanky, and Cho'Gath is tanky, but he is not a tank. The fact that you built a Banshee's and a ROA, helps prove my point. Your build isn't pure defense, you obviously want some damage items in there.
GigglesO (NA)
: http://tinypic.com/r/161mhh/9 I was actually 100% hp when that fight started, but I died so fast that the death recap didn't even get the correct damage. I died instantly as a full tank. Although even with just 73% damage reduction to deal 1.5k damage a second is insane... With just yi hitting me that is at most 4 seconds of living through 5k health. Now put that against someone that doesn't have three armor items. Literally .5 second deaths. Why does yi have this damage? He needs to compete with assassins that have that damage as well. The class as a whole is creating a very unhealthy game where everyone needs to oneshot everyone. Also, Who the fuck cares if they "Give you warning" that you are going to be one shot. One shotting is still one shotting. Giving me .5 seconds warning that I'm getting one shot is not counterplay. >Assassins have never just been finishers in fights. They actually were back in S1-S2... Stop pulling "facts" out of your ass. They weren't popular back then because they couldn't 100-0 targets.
You did not take 5000 damage instantly. You were killed by a Yi who built to shred tanks with Black Cleaver, Last Whisper, and BorK. 4 seconds to kill you, is a relatively medium amount of time in a fight ~~and not *Instantly*~~, and no one was able to CC Yi? Despite the opponent being Yi, this isn't a stat contest. Tanks have CC for a reason, it's how they expand their life-span while in a fight. Not to mention the fact, that *you aren't a tank*. You're a Cho'Gath building Tank, big difference. You don't have the Shield of Sion, or Naut, nor their CC. The resistances of Sejuani, or the constant healing of Maokai and Zac. You had three tank items, and 2 Ap items. Deadman's Plate isn't a good tank item either, since you were obviously playing to do the oneshot-Cho deal and wanted that mobility. So you weren't a Tank, nowhere close to most Full Tank Builds. Take out the ROA, and thrown in a Stoneplate, watch how long you last now. Hell, even Steraks is a better tank item. The reality of the situation is you think that simply stacking health and resistances should make you a tank, when that's far from it. You were playing a Hybrid-Ap-Tank. As for the 'gives you a warning', ah fuck man, I thought like, being able to dodge something you could see coming was the entire part of 'counterplay'. It's why Mages 100-0 later in the game, because you can see their shit coming, *and dodge*. Or, even better, hide behind a tank or support, whose job is to help. It's a team game.
HekaPimp (NA)
: Found an Interesting Quote in the 7.4 Patch Notes
It's partly due to the fact that Runes are gone, but that's partly.
GigglesO (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=X32p5KT9,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2018-06-24T03:58:24.244+0000) > > That's the Archetype, the playstyle, the theme, the feeling. So how are tanks played then? They don't have survivability they just cc someone and then die. What the archetype, playstyle the theme the feeling of a tank that dies? the whole goal of a tank is to not die. Its no different. If we can't have unkillable champs, we can't have champs that kill in .5 seconds. Stop using such one sided logic, the goal of an assassin shouldn't be to 100-0 someone, it should be to finish them off like how pyke plays. Also, why is it that we can enforce the idea that assassins should be able to get in, get a 100% guaranteed kill, and get out? What is healthy about that gameplay? Why are we catering to their power fantasy? My fantasy as a tank is to never die, do I get to do that? No! My power fantasy as an adc is to stand still and right click things to death, do I get to do that? No!. My power fantasy as a mage is to control the flow of a fight, do I get to do that, No!. As a support my goal is to keep my team 100% full hp all the time do I get to do that, NO! So why do assassin's get their treatment of being the premier class. Its fucking bullshit.
Show some actual proof about tanks just instantly dying, cause they don't. They do have survivability, and I haven't seen jack to disprove it in any of my games yet. And you're response about 'one-sided logic', well, for one, that's never how it's been in League with assassins. Look back in history, Assassins have never just been finishers in fights. And we're not talking only power fantasy. We're talking about the entire game, not a void. Assassin's have their power, due to the fact that League is a team game, and when coordinated properly, Assassin's have a lot harder time doing whatever they want than you think. Wards, Tanks, and Supports all lend themselves towards making an Assassin's contribution Null. If an Assassin can spot a moment where their target is alone, vulnerable, or otherwise unprotected during a teamfight, than depending on the avenue of assassination, such a thing is fine. Giving them time to react, time to escape, or to seek help is a common theme most assassins have been built into with lately. Kayn has his marker on Walls, and His Ult delay to give time to react and get help. Zed has his Ult Delay. Rengar has his Eyes shown above the closest target. Kha'zix is nerfed if the target isn't alone. Ekko has his Clone-Icon, and his W heavily delayed. The people I see problem with are people like Twitch or Shaco (who i think both should have giggling sound effects when they're close to a person while stealthed), since they don't give that time to react.
potchiker (EUW)
: Lowering damage creep will fix almost every problem League of Legends is facing
A lot of the clips from your montage don't hold up, or are the results of severely fed people/some of the squishiest champions. Garen x Zyra: IE is no longer good alone as an item, Zyra has a low base health + no health items Kayn x Zyra: Wow, he landed all his abilities and she died. He has 5 items, Zyra has 2. He was fed, not representative. Rengar x Lucian: IE is no longer good without an item/innate Critting, Rengar no longer Auto-crits his ult, Rengar has 5 items to Lucian's 2. Nasus x Sivir: Nasus has 200 farm at 20 minutes and Triforce and a BF, while Sivir has one full item, and Nasus is 4 levels above her. Galio x Caitlyn: He has 3 levels on Caitlyn, and that was obviously during the patch where Galio was literally busted. Not a fair example. Karma x Everyone: Wow, the 18/1 Karma did a lot of damage. *What. A. Surprise.* Jhin x Varus: Jhin has 4 levels on Varus, is very easily implied that he's probably fed in comparison against poor Vaarus. Gragas x Ziggs: I'll give you this one, but that's my bias against Gragas. That said, he's building as a Burst mage, he'll do Burst mage damage. Graves x Cait: I'll give ya this, but I really can't commentate much when it comes to the replays. No items, K/D/A, or context but levels. I'ma just skip Replays unless there's something obvious. Gangplank x Lulu: He's 6 levels above, fed, and full build. :Think: Crit-Thresh x Lux: Crit Thresh is outlier af, he's always been able to do that at max build. Vayne Penta: A Blue Moon, and still not proving your point Shaco x Syndra: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but almost valid point. Gangplank x Ori: IE is no longer a good standalone item, but Gangbuddy has level and gold advantage. Cait x Twitch: Vlad ult amps damage, and we don't know Caitlyn's fed status. TF x Trist: This is really representative of how shit this montage is as proof, since this is back when Abyssal Sceptor still had it's old Art. TF was fed, next. Jhin Triple: They got meme'd from triple traps. Syndra x Varus: 7 Orb ult, Syndra no longer has triple Orb grab. I'm gonna stop here cause I want to keep learning stuff, but your montage isn't proof. It's grabbing all these outlier kills from Fed champions, rare circumstances/meme-builds that have always worked that way, or ignoring any and all context from the kills themselves, and the champions involved. Your montage is a shit example, and proves nothing, there is plenty of better evidence out there, go find it instead of copping out for Click-bait Montages of Fed Champions, and a rare few examples (that are scattered amongst a timeline of years)
GigglesO (NA)
: As long as we keep the “assassins need to one shot” mentality everyone needs to be able to one shot to be viable. If I can’t kill you, but you can kill me then why would I ever pick what I did? Until we accept that assassins 100-0 ing is an unhealthy class design we cannot lower damage.
Than what can Assassins do? That's the Archetype, the playstyle, the theme, the feeling. Why would you play a mage if not to feel powerful with spells and oneshot someone? Why would you play an Assassin if not to be able to delete someone and get out? 100-0 is fine as long as the build up is clear enough to be able to avoid. Assassins can circumvent those build ups by playing smart, flanking, etc. Like the Garen, he came out of Fog of War due to a lack of warding, and promptly ended Zyra's short lived existance. Garen's playing as an Assassin, not a Jugg, and so the same principle applies. He has no way of going through walls, or closing distances with something other than a speedboost or flash, so his build up is "See Spot Run". So with a proper frontline, he isn't going to accomplish his job without having to flank or otherwise outplay a frontline.
: Darius q is a very small amount of his damage. His bonus 200 from passive and true damage resetting ult are also very impactful. Dodging Darius q is good in lane. But if your gonna argue that darius depends on his edge q to even a remotely same amount as aatrox will is flat out stupid. (Also Darius can move during his q and aatrox cannot.)
: Mfw when I see a mfw and the same guy respond to the mfw twice
mfw i see my face and its not my face when i say mfw
: Yep, I've recently picked up Warframe (also a free game) and it is run by a MUCH better team who actually cares what the community wants.
There are so many more variables involved in what you said than you're realizing. The main difference being PvE vs. PvP
: > [{quoted}](name=OtterlyLost,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=EmGaPkjI,comment-id=000000010001,timestamp=2018-06-23T16:53:30.021+0000) > > No because bot lane and marksmen mains are subhuman according to the boards and aren't allowed to be unhappy with having their favorite champs made unfun. Oh look How cute. The marksman player is lashing out because the meta is no longer the bot lane and his four slaves.
Wow, look, an asshole whose condescending and forming a strawman argument out of a players concern that his favorite role is no longer 'fun'.
: Riot needs to stop appealing to little kids and Fortnite players with all this high damage nonsense. League should be about outTHINKING your opponent, not outSURPRISING them. The element of surprise should definitely give you the upper hand but it should NOT make the fight unwinnable for the other side.
Mfw setting an ambush and flanking an enemy in war isn't outthinking an opponent.
Elohaven (NA)
: Shouldn't be 100-0'ing people that early unless fed. Udyr is a juggernaut who should have had some health (10% or so) after that full combo. He got caught out - cool. But he shouldn't have been bursted that fast.
If mages can't 100-0 that early, than why the fuck would you play a mage? That's kinda their thing, 100-0'ing people when they're able to make a pick. And he did end up with health left after Tali's rotation. Janna finished him off with a Zeyphr and Auto, so if he had full health, he would've been at around 10% or more.
: *Dies in 1.76 seconds with little to no counterplay* "YOU GOT OUTPLAYED DURRRRRRRRRRRRRR" *facepalms*
Mfw dodging isn't counterplay, and him getting baited by a pinkward into a mage's set up isn't technically getting outplayed. Not saying damage is fine, but realistically, he did get outplayed. We can argue whether or not the punishment for getting outplayed is okay or not.
: Ahri - I like the Q change but I could be biased. W buffs aren't necessary for mid because she should be maxing W second, giving her enough waveclear to oneshot the melees between levels 10 and 12. W buffs for monsters is a bit questionable and only sounds like a fanboy who wants to play Ahri in all 4 lanes. Annie - By increasing Annie's burst and dps potential you've... hurt Annie's teamfight. By locking it to only her Q she is no longer capable of initiating and has an extraordinarily binary backline mage playstyle now. In lane Annie is currently weak to long range mages but this makes her vulnerable to assassins with no need to set up either. Ashe - the immobile melee circlejerk is really gonna love this one. ASol - Sol is already a dominant one trick pony champion that puts way too much pressure on the map. Let's buff his damage so he'll still only be used by one tricks but they'll be able to hit Master now. Blitz - QoL buffs. The problem with Blitz R is it's fairly random and if new targets walk in the direction he can acquire them so it might just be too much visual noise. Cait - I'd have to know when the damage caps but having a 300% AD ratio is kinda absurd. Late-game the ability already does upward of 1k damage on a squishy. Also, the trap change isn't that helpful as she only needs 2 to force a team to funnel into an AoE zone if they want to challenge her. Cass - Cass is less consistent in the late-game but she's unpunishable early so she'll get there unless she doesn't know how to play the champion! Fiora - no. Not sure how she's before the 'E' champs. Elise - this is fine. Mana on minion is questionable though. Evelynn - what does this even provide for the champion that she needs? Ezreal - shot speed is a reasonable balance decision, although not one I would make. Everything else can be scrapped. Galio - I really like the buffs that allow him to tank better. There's just 2 things I would address. 1. He's already played as a mage when he is played. 2. That R buff is way too much. It already does so much Riot put it on a 200s CD why does it need to do more? Garen - meme changes Gragas - fair change. Congrats Salvor you've made the only reasonable changes I've seen thus far. Irelia - Irelia is busted right now. That's pretty fair to say. However, by nerfing the AD ratio on bladesurge that much you're chunking her damage/burst, her mobility, and her dps. Those kinds of changes always do more than you'd think. As a high skill champion she should definitely be welcome but not at the level she's currently at and not at the level you're suggesting. E hitbox is nice though. Janna - 5 MS and 5 W damage to counter Riot nerfing 5 MS and 5 W damage a few patches ago. Another meme change. Jhin - idek what to do with a change like this. Jinx - We heard Jinx was taking towers too quickly, and towers were too fragile, so we buffed her tower taking (GD in a nutshell). Jinx R isn't good right now but making it harder to execute low health champions and making it more likely to crash into and damage towers is definitely not the way to go. If anything a raw damage buff at low HP values on champions is probably a better change to this ability. Kalista - you should always have mana in lane because you should only be poking in lane with spears in a champ and enough spears in a minion as well to be getting that execute mana back. It's not a bad change it's just one with almost no net value. Karthus - His damage isn't getting hit enough to justify such a huge upswing in power by having a dash-interrupt on his W. If you consider how quickly he can put up the wall that nullifies a lot of engages on him that are designed to catch him out. For a champion that's so dominant with boosting strategies at the moment he'll become a permaban champion until Nunu or this strat gets nerfed. Kog'Maw - I haven't seen AP Kog in so long I have no clue where he stands so I'm not gonna comment on this change. Lissandra - Mana regen and MS is nice but she doesn't need more damage she needs a less binary kit. If you've noticed all Lissandra builds that people run are run with the intent of killing a single target and she becomes completely useless if she can't kill that target. Taking away 75 base from her abilities on a single target (25 from a skill that she's not even going to be using for damage), adding 150 via passive, a 15% Ap ratio, higher ranges, a MS steal, lower CDs, damage reduction, and higher AoE damage is not going to "fix her". These are massive buffs to a bad kit. Master Yi - okay that's reasonable Nami - why? Ori - Ori's problems as a champion stem from the fact most of her damage in lane is unavoidable. Buffing her autoattacks and base stats is a terrible way to address things as you fail to address how frequently and easily she can shove out and duel most mages. Put more oomph into her trading patterns than her raw pushing abilities. Poppy - doesn't need more damage reduction. She has so much in her kit as it stands. Rakan - already a strong pick and super slippery. Adding a shield makes him that much less punishable. Rek'Sai - I hate trying to address Rek'Sai since her two builds (AD and HP) are way too fickle for me to accurately assess. Maybe this makes her Cinderhulk build good, maybe it just makes Titanic Sterak's too overwhelming. Shen - Shen doesn't need shielding. It's like Poppy where it's great your identity involves protecting yourself and using that to be a threat but speccing entirely into shielding just makes the champion a one trick pony that's either too good or too bad based on numbers. Sivir - damage is bad. Let's give this champion raw damage (Boards 2018). Sivir is in a bad spot because of both itemization and all her bad matchups are meta. It's better to address crit itemization being weak at the moment and nerf Lucian/Draven than to buff Sivir. Soraka - stop. Syndra - not terrible, but not particularly impactful. I'm gonna skip Tahm and Tryndamere because this is taking too long and I don't wanna analyze all that. Udyr - Udyr is finally a viable champ and we're gonna gut the build that makes him good? Urgot - changes are awful and have absolutely zero direction besides "let's strip as much damage and add as much utility as we can." Vi - tanks are bad. Let's buff her damage vs. tanks (Boards 2018). Vi's clear speed is fine so I don't like the AS changes. I also don't really think armor pen is going to help when very few people are actively building armor. Give her a little more raw dueling potential levels 2-3 if you want her to be good right now or she'll just continue to be edged out by Graves and Xin. Warwick - QoL is QoL. Can't really hate on it. Wukong - doesn't need damage considering he's a very good pick right now. Do you even play the same game? Xayah - I've wanted to see crit scaling removed from her E for a while now. This also puts more power in her E and because of crit not being as strong you see less power in her autos. I think this is a good change. With the 15 less damage per feather she isn't going to break even until 150 AD so it also makes her laning phase a bit weaker, which is what people have been wanting for a while now. Yasuo - Yasuo nerf to appease Gameplay. Yasuo is never strong because of his damage, he always shows up in the meta because he has gained enough defensive tools to survive and deal his ridiculous damage (Warlord's Bloodlust giving tons of sustain, PD Frozen Mallet making him tanky while Fervor gave him manageable damage, and now Bone Plating) so stop trying to take away his double crit. Idk why that's always pulled so much hate out of everything in his kit. As for nerfing the shield, that would make him too vulnerable to any forms of DoT or random AoE and for a champion Riot wants to be a teamfighter that's never a good choice. Yorick - reasonable changes to make him do more than afk splitpush. I approve. Zac - he's not building AP stop trying. Zed - Zed would be absolutely crippled by these changes as they completely destroy his pushing capabilities and lane presence. Zed is numerically strong and kit-weak at the moment stop destroying his kit because of his numbers and start trimming the numbers and adding more to his kit. Zoe - Zoe is strong in high elo because she goes electrocute and maxes W second allowing her to 100-0 you without using her bubble. This is a token change that doesn't really achieve anything. Zyra - I'm sick of Zyra mains on boards so I'm skipping this Lashers - basically just allowing Rakan and Thresh to proc Targons. I think this is fair for Thresh as he's very susceptible to poke in lane. I don't like it for Rakan since he's already extremely safe. Dark Seal - nerf singed nerf singed nerf singed. Singed is the only champion who abuses this interaction, my only question is whether it's better to make Singed weak early game or tone down his late-game. That being said Riot is choosing to do the latter this patch with his %dmg down. Deadman's Plate - I thought the point of this item was to gain MS UNTIL you get into combat. Doran's Shield - Doran's Shield is important because it protects you from ranged poke. It's so crucial against champions that poke you hard even ranged champions need to take it into some ranged matchups. Of fucking course the person asking for this nerf is a Jayce main. Duskblade - kneejerk nerf. The problem with taking Gameplay seriously is they want to both remove assassin kits and damage numbers. Ohmwrecker - I'm going to pretend nobody mentioned this item. RoA - the point of this item is to be better LATER. Making it stronger upfront doesn't fit into the playstyle of RoA. If anything it needs straight buffs, such as the +20 AP change, although with TF being a top tier pick this is the last thing you want to do right now. Rune changes - Conquerer change is reasonable if the fighter items were to come out. We absolutely don't need to buff Aery. Grasp change is silly. Tower Fortification reminds me that Gameplay has no clue why bot tower lost its fortification. That being said, the change to AS/true damage is one that seems fairly reasonable. Jungle changes I have no text space left to work with.
Since the Wukong was my change, I'd be more than happy to explain why I said what I did. The damage is meant to help push him towards teamfights, while the dash range makes it harder to instantly dash-delete people. It buffs damage in teamfights while building tankier, pushing him to potentially go back to his Old Diver ways, rather than Assassin. Diver > Assassin with a knock-up.
: Community Patch Notes
I'm famous! \o/
: Why does Aatrox only have 2 charges for Umbral Dash?
Recharge time, as in, how long it takes to get a charge? And you want it to be 1 second long at max rank?
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fq2ezFM,comment-id=0004000000000000,timestamp=2018-06-20T09:31:21.025+0000) > > Ah yes, and shove all the people who don't want to play Support, along with all the support players. It wouldn't solve anything, you'd still have the same problem. Why wouldnt a support player only play TB to begin with, they got literal 5 seconds ques. The reason that Blind still existed, was to give people who weren't playing High-wanted roles a way to have a game without waiting 10 minutes and plus. If you're saying support players would have a hard time you're wrong. Did you even play Teambuilder as a support? You got an instant queue pop with Teambuilder most of the time as a support. Also this isn't about "solving" anything aside from giving a better blind pick than the current shitfest we have right now.
Supports wouldn't have a problem. Mids, Tops, and ADCs would, as they had the longest times looking for roles in Teambuilder. Teambuilder is only a better blind pick for Junglers and ADCs, the others either had obscene wait times, or went into Blind/Draft.
Streep (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Wacky9,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=9s6WrAZT,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-06-20T17:09:17.717+0000) > > Why can't they just put crit on a damage item? I really hate building zeal items on {{champion:202}} even though I need the crit. I honestly do not know why . . . ADC's use to have the ability to buy Crit on {{item:3078}} , {{item:3031}} and {{item:3508}} , but they took all 3 of those away. Maybe Riot does not want ADC's to have early AD with Crit? That's all I can think of.
The problem was that they didn't want 2 item powerspikes, which was what was happening before.
: This man is on to something lol. One thing I've noticed is that everybody's ults are up like all the time. Zed, talon, yasuo etc.. I swear I feel like their ults are always up. Ive seen a zed ult twice in a teamfight… not sure if that is common or not, but I don't remember that happening back in the day.
Using the Ultimate Hunter (with all 5 stacks), and the Transcendence Perk, along with having max 40% CDR, can get Zed's Ultimate down to 24 seconds. Dunno if Teamfights last that long.
: Wow, that's such an improvement
It kinda looks like concept art, the right one. Nice details its got.
: > [{quoted}](name=Mounting Dread,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=5fq2ezFM,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2018-06-19T20:32:03.880+0000) > > Yea, this version of Blind would be slightly longer but wouldnt match TB queue times. Teambuilder queue times wouldn't have been that long honestly if they'd done what they should have and replaced blind pick with it to begin with. At the time we had blind pick, draft, ranked draft, twisted treeline, ARAM, ranked TT, and Teambuilder. 3 of those queues were Summoner's Rift, and Teambuilder took the longest to actually get a party going, so it's no wonder why teambuilder took so long. If they'd replaced blind(since it was basically blind to begin with), it most likely would have been much shorter.
Ah yes, and shove all the people who don't want to play Support, along with all the support players. It wouldn't solve anything, you'd still have the same problem. Why wouldnt a support player only play TB to begin with, they got literal 5 seconds ques. The reason that Blind still existed, was to give people who weren't playing High-wanted roles a way to have a game without waiting 10 minutes and plus.
: Anybody remember the last time they took Elder Dragon?
: well, I was trying to imply that population density can create a cultural bias in opinion
: and what if by the survey, the statistics are split down the middle by an external factor with a majority of the people not affected by that external factor, but it still skews the ratio enough to be near evenly divided what then?
You're gonna need to clarify, cause I got no idea what you mean...Are you asking what would happen if you had the Survey open for everyone, then used some factor to split the two groups to remove some sort of bias, and get the statistic then? With all that trouble, why open the survey for everyone, if you're just going to ignore X amount of players due to some factor? (If that's what you meant, I dunno.)
: shuffle a deck of cards, the different suits are now your playerbase opinions, pick 10 cards at random (which in league's case would be roughly 20% of the playerbase) but all of the 10 cards are one suit random surveys are just that, RANDOM and are just as subject to a person being volatile by CHOOSING to answer the survey and even more volatile if the survey is forced heck, if you wanted to give an oversimplified but accurate though too much data method, you could categorize players by country of origin, country of residence and race and split that as a way of deciding overall opinion for different locations in the world and not just by "majority", which can be influenced by population density in a region... by that note, the best way to do it would be separate by country only so that there are only roughly 100 different statistics with percentages for each question...
(Let's just ignore the fact that deck of Cards are predetermined to have 13 cards each.) If we're taking it accurately, then some suits may have only 5 cards, other suits may have 20, and some could even have 1. The more people there are who think that a square is rectangular, the more likely you are to find those people *in a row*. If you throw out a random survey that all comes back as the same thing, than the chances are, a big majority thinks that same thing. And with how sampling works, if you throw out the survey again using the same methods, you're like to get the same thing. That's how random surveys work. You're not excluding people from the chance of randomness, not when you have such a wide pool For an example, say you have 100 m&ms, 90 blue, and 10 red. Statistically, should you randomly pull 10 m&ms, you should get 9 blue, and 1 red. However, if you were blind about the quantity of M&Ms, and pulled out 10 blues the first time, 10 blue the second, and 7/3 the third, you can average that into 9/10ths. Just because you got unlucky the first two times, doesn't mean that it isn't accurate. Just takes a few tries. But even then, you can safely assume that their are more blues than reds, when looking at the numbers without averaging. That you pulled 10 blues twice, can support evidence that there are vastly more blues than reds, despite not knowing the total number. Random surveys work, through sampling and constant trying. It was lucky the first time, but averaging everything together gets accurate assessment of the mass body.
Lovesick (OCE)
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NHsB6mgT,comment-id=00080001,timestamp=2018-06-18T17:22:12.870+0000) > > That's not at all what they did in the 2nd video. It's obviously a joke that's meant to say that 'my job is the most important of the three' and the other 2 laughing back, "nah mine is". It's not an 'outright shutdown', it's the type of joke you make among coworkers, trying to say you're the most important of the process. > > You can see it is, cause they're talking about DNA, with a Designer, a Narrative writer, and a Art Designer. It's a jab at the other two people in the room, which Peach-Shirt-Boi says "oooooooohhh". Like he's trying to start a fight. I would agree with you.....but he's not the type of guy to crack those kinds of jokes.
And you know this how? People can't have personalities, or jab at their coworkers?
Lovesick (OCE)
: I mean, tbf Ghostcrawler is a sadist. He has explicitly stated that League should also evoke a sense of hopelessness from its players and a sense of despair. That and he literally has no idea what he's talking about most of the time since he has no actual idea how to actually design a video game (marine biology degree btw). He has stated this himself anyways, so it's not like I'm openly being rude about him. If you don't believe me watch these two videos linked below: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOjrSVURwGo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hESJD5bG0OY It's funny because in the 2nd one within the first 25 seconds his other team members just outright shut his statement down, thereby implying he does not know what he's talking about.
That's not at all what they did in the 2nd video. It's obviously a joke that's meant to say that 'my job is the most important of the three' and the other 2 laughing back, "nah mine is". It's not an 'outright shutdown', it's the type of joke you make among coworkers, trying to say you're the most important of the process. You can see it is, cause they're talking about DNA, with a Designer, a Narrative writer, and a Art Designer. It's a jab at the other two people in the room, which Peach-Shirt-Boi says "oooooooohhh". Like he's trying to start a fight.
: the survey would have to be publicly disclosed in an unbiased manner (meaning either in the game client or a link leading from the game client) and have questions that are not biased towards a favorable outcome as well, for instance, you can't just post it randomly onto the boards or reddit where it WILL GET BURIED after a few days, because each of those sources has problems. Reddit is filled with users outside of the community or who rarely play the game and is not directly related to league, so it should therefor not be their public source the boards? a relatively small number of people despite the variance in skill level and opininion as well as having a terrible system for getting anything noticed surrender@20...if they post a survey here, they are going to get the MOST BIASED survey possible because according to the game client and their official website, their official development website DOES NOT EXIST one survey question they used with such a tactic: do you like the changes to X , yes or no yes, I liked the changes but they had a ton wrong at the time as well. I was happy that the thing in question had gotten some attention, but there was no way to elaborate on what needed to be done so we have two things that need to be done: an unbiased source (the league client or a link from it) and an unbiased survey then, in addition to that, there are multitudes of players such as myself that can/willl only check the boards, so the survey needs to be SHOWN
No, it shouldn't actually. Because once again, once you give people an avenue to which to complain in, people will complain in it. Random Surveys exist the way they are for a reason, because they don't rely on a person self-interest to take. You will not, and cannot, get an accurate representation of what an entire community wants, from a shown survey that's open to everyone. That doesn't make sense, and I'll explain why. The reason why, is because the vote will be weighted. A random survey doesn't discriminate if someone is an active boards user, a lurker, or someone who doesn't visit. Because it's impossible to ensure that not everyone will take a survey, unless you force it on them by making them unable to play a game (Which introduces it's own problems since people might not care, and not give honest answers to get to their game) than you end up having the same problem as the boards. The people who want to complain, to see the game change the way they want it to change, will take it to change the game they way they want. People who think the game are fine, or don't care, are less likely to take a survey, or come onto the boards to say they like the game as it is. You're just giving a new outlet to vent frustration, not getting an unbiased roll. Random Surveys, remove the chance for a weighted vote. They can hit a fair share of boards users, and non-board users, without the threat of a vocal minority. Because for the record, the Boards and reddit are still a *fraction* of the League Playerbase. Tl;DR: Having the survey open for all, open on the Client, makes it a volunteer survey, not a random survey. Random Survey's are much better for getting a collective opinion on something. Volunteer survey's only attract those who desire change.
: Well, if you'd scroll up, you have two EUW players who both don't like the game literally directly above you. Another directly below. I'm sure if I went to the servers that mainly post in other languages (I'm not bilingual so it's a bitch to try and make heads or tails of that) I'd find the same. The boards are basically flooded with these posts of late not unlike when Ekko was released and the boards were flooded with how unfair he was then (and rightly so). On top of all this, _numerous_ streamers and LCS players (current and former alike from varying regions) have spoken up about their dislike of the current state of the game, so it's not just the lower players. The boards can be a circle jerk, but when _this many_ people are pissed, _something_ is wrong. It may not be the _exact_ thing they think (in this case pretty much cut and dry is) but something is definitely wrong. This is glossing over the various EU (from both regions) posts and comments that we get on our boards. And those are people that are leaking over to our section. We're not even their native boards. Something is _clearly_ wrong, so it's confusing how you're so delusional enough to think otherwise.
Excuse me if I'm skeptical, but you're still thinking that just because a lot of people are complaining the same thing, something you all *believe* is wrong. And you're well within your right to say that something is wrong. It's just as much my game as it is yours. But what annoys me, is when you assume that *everyone else* agrees with you. No, as far as you know, everyone who is complaining agrees with you. And people who want to complain, are more likely to go to a place where they can complain. And it's not an objective thing either, like the Fiora face change back when she was getting updated. Cause you know what? I enjoy the game right now. My friends enjoy the game right now. Yeah, it ain't perfect, and I think there are some changes that could be made. My good ol' buddy thinks that snowballing is high as well. I think turrets are fine, and that we've placed an unfair perspective on what they should be. And yet, we still enjoy the game for what it is. So you can claim that "there's never been this many people on the boards to complain before", and I'm gonna scoff at that. I've seen it before, and It's gonna keep happening, people who think that something's seriously wrong, and the game is going to die unless they fix it. So unless you want to tell me that my viewpoint is 'worthless' and shouldn't be counted because it isn't what lines up with your views, it is not 'everyone else'. You have the people who come to the boards who agree with you. The boards alone is not a credible source, and while you can have your voices heard, it is being cross checked with other places, and, what I think is the most reliable, Surveys. Surveys that hit people who don't come to the boards. People who you don't know whether they agree with you or not.
: Except that NA, EU, and everyone under the fucking sun who isn't playing in a cyber-cafe somewhere (mainly popular in eastern Asia with China leading the population by a meteoric landslide) all hate the current state of the game. League right now would be akin to going on Steam and finding "mixed" reviews where "very positive" was originally the case.
Ya got any proof for any of that? Cause, otherwise, you're just stating what you think, about NA, EU and 'everyone else'.
Rioter Comments
Banuvan (NA)
: Core audience is over in Asia. Riot does what their chinese overlords say.
Ah yes, cause fuck anyone who isn't American, yeah?
: After digging more into new Aatrox trying to be unbiased, i feel like i made a big mistake
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85XohKyf,comment-id=000700000000,timestamp=2018-06-16T04:27:19.108+0000) > > This musta been the longest grudge I've ever seen fulfilled. lmao, nah i was lurking the forum boards the other day and i saw someone talking about rammus so i just looked back to this and thought it would be funny
Well it got a laugh outta me lol.
iDarkWind (EUW)
: How did people actually upvote this xDD
Because the Circlejerrrkkkkkk
: > [{quoted}](name=Dr Mercy,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=85XohKyf,comment-id=0007,timestamp=2017-06-27T11:12:10.928+0000) > > Sounds like to me like you're still playing Rammus like he was played before the rework. I bet you also think that he was perfect, and had no flaws in his design, and had completely healthy. After about a year and changing my play style with him and doing better my opinion is the same
This musta been the longest grudge I've ever seen fulfilled.
: Experiment: Community Patch Notes
{{champion:62}} Nimbus Strike Dash speed lowered Range lowered from 625 to 550. New Effect: Damage done to the 2 other targets is increased by 20% "With the recent transition of playstyles, Wukong has moved more from a Diver to a more assassin like role. To give players some more time to react to the rascal monkey, we're lowering the range and speed of Nimbus strike, to rely more on his stealth to reach a target. To compensate, we've added some splitpushing power and better teamfighting potential into his monkey allies."
: This is the issue If you're losing a lane to an immobile champ, like Vel Koz, you're experiencing a champion that does more damage. Because a Vel koz is ahead, he will likely be able to spam more spells and get closer to minions. At best, a plyer can try and flash to get some highly probable QWE+R combo. What happens when a mobile champion get ahead, you have to be REALLY scare. Look at this video. https://youtu.be/dROHf7qS9xE At what point is it fair? If flash is up, a Camille can literally engage you at the middle of the lane (in this game top) from behind her turret. Yes, this is an extreme case but it high lights an issue.
: It’s not even about statistics It’s about how it feels to play a champion I want to play a long range AP champion. Yet, there Riot is perfectly fine giving too many champions insane gab closers. Why is a Camille able to dash nearly a full screen away, while still getting another gab closer from an ultimate you can’t walk away form Why give irelia gab closer easy access? Her Q can pretty much auto kill most caster minion. She doesn’t even have to wait for an opportunity. She can easily engage Why give them free true damage Playing Vel a Koz (I’m just picking Vel Koz but there are many others) does not feel either rewarding nor fun. Players are forced to play so scared that they have to hug the turret. And it gets even more frustrating knowing that those champions with hug mobility can tank turret shots with impunity. It’s ridiculous I’m on the verge of quitting It’s always the minority that gets screwed. I know Yasuo, Camille, and Yi, Lucian..etc are fun to play. Riot basically gave them all the tools to succeed. They are self reliant It’s a joke
.> complaining about hyper mobility .> complaining about the class that's meant to dive deep into fights Like, what, you want them not to be able to do their job? If that's too strawman for both our tastes, why do you think that Divers shouldn't have as much access to mobility as they do? They need to get around in fights that isn't just walking up to someone, or else the melee just get's entirely shit on. You're complaining about a class that's meant to dive deep. Mages have historically always needed the peel of ally supports and tanks to form a frontline against those divers.
SkieSin (NA)
: The New Aatrox is a Lazy cop out and here is the simple truth why
You can do the same thing with Jhin's entire kit. Hell, when he first came out, there was plenty of people out there comparing the similarities between his kit and other peoples (like Cait, Kat, others). When they say > HIs gameplay is a bit generic, doing a MIX of things PLENTY of other FIGHTERS also do. That means, unless he's the best at those things, he's not going to be the best pick gameplay wise." You're reading into it too literally. It's more about his gameplay, than his kit. Why play Aatrox, when Jax has more reliable CC, sustain from items, and defenses, with sustained damage to boot? His Q, doesn't move him per cast save the third, and knocks up on each attack. His W is meant for Single target CC, to keep an opponent from getting away. How his dash interacts with his kit, keeps it unique. The idea that something needs to be **entirely** unique to give someone a distinct reason to be picked, is a faulty idea and ignores how the gameplay actually works and plays with.
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Dr Mercy

Level 48 (NA)
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