Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 20
Garen has really weird power spikes and has been unceremoniously shoved out of his former role as an early game aggressor. Is Riot satisfied with Garen's current design implementation?
: 9.3 advice
And {{champion:51}}
: Mages bullying intended tops out of their lane
Rumble's literally a mage, why is somebody listing him in an argument saying "top picks like Rumble disagree that mages will bully top laners out of top"
: Critical hit chance should be removed entirely, and replaced with an auto attack multiplier
Changing it to a generic throughput buff is uninteresting. A more interesting approach would be to fold critical strikes into the energized subsystem, where for every X units moved (reduced by the critical strike stat) you deal a critical strike. This has a couple of good benefits attached to it: 1) Reinforces ADC's play patterns of kiting and stutter-stepping 2) Makes ADC siege considerably less oppressive to defenders, but not to towers. 3) Makes critical strikes more predictable, which means they can be made more interesting on their own.
: Full AD comps should have also be punished this way in season 6 - early 8
but if armor items are good, then both adcs *and* assassins might not be good. Can't have that, now can we?
NY64 (NA)
: Buffs I would love to see to my main
you missed the most important change: If Kench devours an enemy champ and the damage is lethal, instead of spitting them out and them dying, they get *eaten*
: SO ap users cant have wave clear that costs reasonable ammount of mana or build items that give mana
: They withheld on the changes because bruisers are actually doing pretty well currently , the addition of these items are unnecessary as they are not needed in a state of which bruisers like camille jax fiora irelia are all doing well
> [{quoted}](name=SUPER MUSLIM,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=JMiploOm,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-06-13T14:52:06.920+0000) > > They withheld on the changes because bruisers are actually doing pretty well currently , the addition of these items are unnecessary as they are not needed in a state of which bruisers like camille jax fiora irelia are all doing well they didn't withhold all of the changes, they kept the ones that nerf bruisers! :D
Rioter Comments
: Why people picking ashe if they can't 1 trick her or play her well ?
Lemme tell you something: People don't know that ashe is out of meta
: Lolalytics, as a matter of fact. 33% is still significantly lower than the 70% in Silver/Gold. And no matter how balanced they are, some champions will be at the top of the bans, you have to ban someone. (Well, technically you can ban "None", but who does it?) 33% doesn't mean he's a problem. In fact, if he was, his **Play** rate would go up as his Ban rate goes down, because it means he's available more often. But no, his Play rate *also* goes down.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAkEQ5p8,comment-id=0003000000000000000100010000,timestamp=2018-05-15T16:29:36.312+0000) > > Lolalytics, as a matter of fact. 33% is still significantly lower than the 70% in Silver/Gold. And no matter how balanced they are, some champions will be at the top of the bans, you have to ban someone. (Well, technically you can ban "None", but who does it?) > > 33% doesn't mean he's a problem. In fact, if he was, his **Play** rate would go up as his Ban rate goes down, because it means he's available more often. But no, his Play rate *also* goes down. You're failing to analyze placement. Zed is, at worst, the 5th most banned midlaner in the game. And lolalytics is an outlier, other data scraping has Zed at closer to 3rd on bans. And his pick rate is still in the 10-12% range, which follows the Leblanc model of pick and ban and win rates. Which means in solo queue, an ideal ban suite is zed and leblanc with three other bans, *probably* Mundo Graves Khazix just based on snowball potential.
: Lolwut? Complain about low brackets and about Zed in the same post? What are you, low Plat? You know what, I'm curious, I'm gonna check. ... Loool, I was right. Gold2 right now, Plat last season. Well, FYI, Zed isn't a problem. Winrate in Plat and Dia more or less the same as in Gold, with Ban rate AND Pick rate both significantly lower. No one seems to think Zed is an issue, in higher brackets.
> [{quoted}](name=DeathBurs7,realm=EUW,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAkEQ5p8,comment-id=00030000000000000001,timestamp=2018-05-15T12:41:01.840+0000) > > Lolwut? Complain about low brackets and about Zed in the same post? What are you, low Plat? You know what, I'm curious, I'm gonna check. > > ... > > Loool, I was right. Gold2 right now, Plat last season. Well, FYI, Zed isn't a problem. Winrate in Plat and Dia more or less the same as in Gold, with Ban rate AND Pick rate both significantly lower. No one seems to think Zed is an issue, in higher brackets. Are you scraping data from lolalytics or some other site? God forbid, lolking? Zed has a 33% banrate in Diamond+, second only to Yasuo and Leblanc; people in higher brackets not only think zed is an issue, he's actually in the top 3 issues for midlane.
: Pyke doesn't give Team Gold, though - he only gives the gold to the most recent person who Assisted him in the kill - so if the ADC got one last little auto-attack in before Pyke eviscerates someone, the ADC gets the full gold and XP, while everyone else who participated gets the Assist Gold/XP. I don't really think _Death From Below's_ shared bounty will be even a moderate setback to the changes made to Shutdown Gold.
I think it is a setback to those changes because it duplicates kill gold and credit. Well, Riot's making bounties no longer provide team gold but as compensation it's jacking up solo kill gold...which gets duplicated by Pyke R. You're looking at shutdown gold being incredibly swingy because of Pyke, upwards of 1200g for one kill.
: The point of the character is to be a support that doesn't get flack for "ksing." The whole game is full of characters that break the normal rules of the game. {{champion:82}} gets more minion EXP the more allies are near by, going against the rule of it being lessened for each ally. {{champion:43}} gets an ult at level 1 {{champion:126}} gets 6 points for each ability {{champion:77}} has 4 basic abilities {{champion:516}} never has to back to shop {{champion:497}} {{champion:498}} get special bonuses for being on the same team {{champion:26}} gives away free exp even if his team doesn't farm {{champion:142}} exists
It's fine for Riot to break their own rules to some extent, it just seems really tone-deaf to announce intent and then a champion that obviates that intent to some extent. Like when Riot said they felt mana gating was too loose...but then buffed Manaflow Band almost two months before the mana changes actually came in.
Rioter Comments
Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrLuau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IZebsoiB,comment-id=00000000000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-14T15:12:40.028+0000) > > countered by the fact that the standard trundle build is hydra into tank items and the standard jax build is tiamat into triforce. 120% attack speed is much more than 80% attack speed, and Sheen W is a workalike for Chomp on towers. You're really just wrong. Why would you compare a tank build trundle against a jax. Give Jax and trundle the same set of item with the exception of rageblade, and trundle will outpush jax.
because trundle will explode in a 2v1 if you build damage items on him but jax gets tank stats for building damage items
: > [{quoted}](name=DrLuau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAkEQ5p8,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-05-14T12:41:40.077+0000) > > If an adc plays badly, the game is unwinnable. Don't like having that much pressure? Nerf ADCs. Yea unless your dive is ahead at least half as much as the enemy adc and then just one shots them over and over till you win......
the rate of that happening declines precipitously as you climb out of the "inanimate objects" bracket. Unless zed got through bans, but he really shouldn't under any circumstances.
Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrLuau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IZebsoiB,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-05-14T12:46:07.771+0000) > > No, he doesn't. Jax has a better attack speed steroid and his auto reset is on a shorter cooldown than Trundle's. Jax has a 8% raw higher steroid than trundle, and a 1 second lower base cd, but is unable have his W bonus magic damage affect turrets while chomp bonus damage affects turret. The difference between 80% attack speed and 88% attack speed isn't much.
countered by the fact that the standard trundle build is hydra into tank items and the standard jax build is tiamat into triforce. 120% attack speed is much more than 80% attack speed, and Sheen W is a workalike for Chomp on towers. You're really just wrong.
AR URF (NA)
: Make top lane great again.
bot lane will always be the most impactful lane as long as supports and adcs are the way they are. The potential for bot lane snowball is much higher than anywhere else on the map because you can reliably get 4 people getting involved, which means gold swings of >1000g in a teamfight just on kill gold. Plus towers. Plus dragons.
Kai Guy (NA)
: The only way to make them stop would be if they started rigging matchmaker to look for bad players before games and intentionally place them onto teams populated by bad players VS teams of also bad players. They would have to be very good at accurately determining who is or is not a bad player to accomplish this, as well as accurately predict it for inconsistent players. Alternatively they can stick to the MMR elo system and just live with their being players who get shafted, some times for several games back to back, by team skill distribution, under the assumption that the bad players will keep losing games and keep getting lower and lower, and good players wont be hard stuck because they are a positive impact on their team and occupies 1 slot lowering the odds of a game breakingly bad player being put on their team by a full 20%.
even if a player is never the reason for a loss, that player still has an 80% chance that at least one game-shatteringly bad player will be on his team. And this season especially, you only need 1 bad player to completely snowball a game out.
Seen (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=DrLuau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IZebsoiB,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-14T04:40:07.764+0000) > > if you're playing a splitpusher why wouldn't you just play jax who can 1v3? Jax pushes slower, even with rageblade.
> [{quoted}](name=Seen,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=IZebsoiB,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-05-14T11:25:29.609+0000) > > Jax pushes slower, even with rageblade. No, he doesn't. Jax has a better attack speed steroid and his auto reset is on a shorter cooldown than Trundle's.
Astorine (OCE)
: As a view from someone who doesn't main in the botlane usually but has played both roles a bit, adc's get treated worse than supps. Period.
> [{quoted}](name=Astorine,realm=OCE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FAkEQ5p8,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-05-14T11:22:39.050+0000) > > As a view from someone who doesn't main in the botlane usually but has played both roles a bit, adc's get treated worse than supps. Period. If an adc plays badly, the game is unwinnable. Don't like having that much pressure? Nerf ADCs.
Seen (NA)
: Trundle is (✿◡ ‿ ◡ )
if you're playing a splitpusher why wouldn't you just play jax who can 1v3?
SirPurrr (NA)
: probably because you're making it free or they're bad at jungling most junglers have awful level 2 ganks though
> [{quoted}](name=SirPurrr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=WNxEnNwd,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-14T03:49:44.576+0000) > > probably because you're making it free or they're bad at jungling > > most junglers have awful level 2 ganks though All the good junglers right now have either okay or great level 2s as well as stellar level 3s though. Graves, Xin, K6.
: Garen
if by broken you mean "has like a bunch of crippling bugs that severely limits his ability to be played" then sure.
: The point of the item is to burst. It's supposed to be an alternative to the DPS that ADCs currently use.
> [{quoted}](name=The Yetii Rider,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=0nBHNh5G,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2018-05-10T16:38:52.775+0000) > > The point of the item is to burst. It's supposed to be an alternative to the DPS that ADCs currently use. Then why does the burst item provide like 70% attack speed?
: they arn't getting "buffed" per say, they are receiving early nerfs and getting more late game power. but the issue is they dont need "compensation" for being an a broken state for 2 year. and the fact that any ANY point adc in next patch being STRONGER than they are this patch is absurd. this is more of a "net neutral" change when we wer promised a large nerf to the most broken class in the game.
> [{quoted}](name=SwiftKitten88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=4vk8hgAE,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-10T00:00:26.922+0000) > > they arn't getting "buffed" per say, they are receiving early nerfs and getting more late game power. > > but the issue is they dont need "compensation" for being an a broken state for 2 year. and the fact that any ANY point adc in next patch being STRONGER than they are this patch is absurd. > > this is more of a "net neutral" change when we wer promised a large nerf to the most broken class in the game. I'm getting more and more convinced Riot doesn't know how to nerf ADCs, or maybe is convinced ADCs aren't broken.
: Design Philosophy/Opinion: We need Polymorphs.
Making more champions more like Lulu is maybe my new thing I least want to see happen in League, right up there with CertainlyT reworking an assassin, and Nunu getting reworked.
: I keep seeing people talk about how Conqueror/IE true damage invalidates resistances and whatnot.
> [{quoted}](name=Micronova,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=FGglZTXP,comment-id=,timestamp=2018-05-09T23:23:37.773+0000) > > Alright, so 20% of their damage is true damage. > > What about the other 80% of that damage? Did that damage just stop existing? It didn't stop existing, but defensive stats are now reducing say 50% of 80% of incoming damage, which means its actually reducing overall damage by 40%. It gets worse as you reduce the amount of MR/Armor you get, which means resistance tanks are gonna take a big dive compared to health or shield tanks. I for one welcome our Nautilus overlords.
: Patch 8.11 Early Look
Do we know if the training wheels change for last hitting is just for Marksmen or whether it's a game-wide change?
Ralanr (NA)
: I don’t mean to be rude, but it is more difficult to take your stance seriously when you list champions like Nasus and Garen as tanks when they are fighters (at least that’s how I interpret your post). So people will assume you also want to harm durable fighters as well.
> [{quoted}](name=Ralanr,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=tAWsc4pn,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-05-08T12:45:11.050+0000) > > I don’t mean to be rude, but it is more difficult to take your stance seriously when you list champions like Nasus and Garen as tanks when they are fighters (at least that’s how I interpret your post). So people will assume you also want to harm durable fighters as well. I kinda see where one could make the argument that Nasus is a tank that's disguised as a Juggernaut. Wither sidesteps the traditional Juggernaut weakness of being kited, and he's perfectly comfortable rushing tank items; the only reason Nasus rushes sheen is that sheen synergizes with his kit.
: Only one Support class is meta at a time. Discussion
Rakan and Thresh see pick/ban levels in pro play. They're not simply "good" they're almost best in slot.
Rioter Comments
: Definitely something I agree with! I had very similar arguments about skill expression on shields (specifically Janna) when I was interviewing for Playtest. I guess Irelia kinda fills that "shield-breaker" niche, but it could be interesting to see a mechanic similar to grievous wounds that you could build against shield-heavy comps. There's probably a ton of tuning you'd need to iron out so that some champions don't end up feeling obsolete against it. P.S. We're the playtest team, not the balance team!
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Koyuncu,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=do2swmal,comment-id=00570000,timestamp=2018-05-03T20:58:17.216+0000) > > Definitely something I agree with! I had very similar arguments about skill expression on shields (specifically Janna) when I was interviewing for Playtest. > > I guess Irelia kinda fills that "shield-breaker" niche, but it could be interesting to see a mechanic similar to grievous wounds that you could build against shield-heavy comps. There's probably a ton of tuning you'd need to iron out so that some champions don't end up feeling obsolete against it. > > P.S. We're the playtest team, not the balance team! I don't really get what people mean when they talk about shields and skill expression. Unless the target is literally getting one-shot, shields are still at full effectiveness as a deterrent, and have the added obnoxiousness of having skill expression that pulls people out of lethal damage ranges. Everybody's had that game as an assassin where they jump in, get the adc to 3% health, and then their health bar is suddenly 60-80% full of white health that you have to chew through to do your job, except actually you just die because you spent all your damage getting the adc to 3% health.
: how do you add a bruiser item unintentionally..
Don't tell riot! They'll remove it!
: Stormrazor has been excellent on Jhin in testing. I'm less sure exactly what's going to happen with Ashe. I do assume significant follow-up will be necessary, and Ashe/Gangplank/Jhin/Tryndamere are all champions we'll need to keep an eye on.
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=A7LBtoKc,discussion-id=2ykqAkNa,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-30T18:10:15.286+0000) > > Stormrazor has been excellent on Jhin in testing. I'm less sure exactly what's going to happen with Ashe. I do assume significant follow-up will be necessary, and Ashe/Gangplank/Jhin/Tryndamere are all champions we'll need to keep an eye on. Adding items and masteries that front-load damage seems awful like reintroducing the Duskblade play pattern for assassins. Are you intending to keep an eye on assassin throughput with these items?
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: April 27
Since you've already changed the {{champion:86}} W buff, and also seem to want to remove the Trigage synergy, can you maybe look into giving Garen some extra power since he will be hard hit by any change to the Sterak's + Triforce interaction?
Aaon1997 (NA)
: This Mundo Buff is bad idea and show's why GW need's a rework
Balancing around low elo is poor design. Bronze and silvers can just ban out mundo if he's such a problem.
: PBE Chat with the Playtest Team - 8.9
Is Riot working on developing a more narrow definition for Fighters? Because that classification contains a really diverse array of champs, including beefy tanks like Garen and Kled but also snowballing hypercarries like Riven, Fiora, and Gangplank. The only real commonalities you see are that a bunch of (but not all) Fighters build Trinity Force, and a bunch of (but still not all) Fighters rely on their skills which generally scale with AD and deal physical damage to pressure and make kills, but these skills are less bursty than, say, Assassins but not as DPS-intensive as, say, Marksmen.
: > [{quoted}](name=Je suis Rubick,realm=EUW,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=27mrj62T,comment-id=00050009,timestamp=2018-04-17T21:31:53.214+0000) > > make me dream, tell me what are the goals "Snowballing Fighters can carry" (Caution: It is very likely that our idea of "snowballing fighters can carry" is different from a fighter main's idea of the same thing)
> [{quoted}](name=Riot Axes,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=27mrj62T,comment-id=000500090000,timestamp=2018-04-17T21:41:07.341+0000) > > "Snowballing Fighters can carry" > > (Caution: It is very likely that our idea of "snowballing fighters can carry" is different from a fighter main's idea of the same thing) Don't write checks your dev team can't cash, Riot.
Rioter Comments
Onotori (NA)
: This seems a little backwards.
Yeah the new champ with one skin is good and the champs with like 9 legendary skins are still guttertrash. Seems legit.
: A simple way to improve Garen and make him more juggernaut-y
Garen doesn't need any of these things, barring some small changes: -Q animation scales with attack speed (Riot gave this buff to Trundle because Chomp became a DPS loss for him in the mid-late game) -Passive cooldown is now 6 seconds starting at level 6 (previously level 11) - Spreads out Garen's power spike but gives him actual sustain for at least part of his laning phase
: May I ask why?
> [{quoted}](name=CoffeeMug,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=To9Oy78V,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2018-04-13T18:39:08.680+0000) > > May I ask why? Because you gave her the ability to walk through walls and become unkillable, and it's already difficult enough to kill a Janna that can't do that through her speed and disengage tools. You're effectively giving her another disengage while not really taking anything away from her. To your credit, you try to disguise your Janna buff by consolidating her old kit into one spell and giving it the longer of two cooldowns. But since she doesn't lose functionality and gains utility, it's still a buff. So yeah, make Q a slow, or actually do this: After Howling Gale charges for 1.5 seconds, it becomes a knock up. Every other aoe knock up in the game has either a multi-minute cooldown associated with it or a delay which allows for meaningful counterplay. Howling Gale has neither and is a clear outlier because of it.
: Why does Kai’sa have a shield?
The real question you should ask is: Why does each individual missile of Icathian Rain count as a single target effect for the purposes of Death's Dance?
: [ Champion Rework ] Janna the Wind's Compassion
The only way this is even thinkable as a rework is if Q becomes a 40% slow instead of a knockup.
: > [{quoted}](name=DrLuau,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ErJ37bwa,comment-id=0003,timestamp=2018-04-10T06:35:06.786+0000) > > If you want bad players to stop ruining the game, you need to make things less completely trivial to capture. The reason bad players cost games more now than in previous seasons is because everything is about contesting objectives, because objectives are generally really easy to get now. Easy to get, exactly, which means less team effort needed to get the objective...
> [{quoted}](name=EpicEzio,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ErJ37bwa,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2018-04-10T07:20:16.277+0000) > > Easy to get, exactly, which means less team effort needed to get the objective... Nope, because everything's so easy to get it means the team's role has shifted towards contesting every objective, and bad players make contesting objectives much more difficult, and since you're contesting more stuff as a team, the pain of being down a player, regardless of whether they died or not, is much more acutely felt.
: One Good Player Vs One Bad Player
If you want bad players to stop ruining the game, you need to make things less completely trivial to capture. The reason bad players cost games more now than in previous seasons is because everything is about contesting objectives, because objectives are generally really easy to get now.
: The items were being used outside of their intended means. The means for these items was gold generation for those with limited income that could be transitioned into cost efficient items for those limited incomes. Then every laner was buying a support item and upgrading it because the opportunity cost was way too low.
> [{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GRA678rL,comment-id=000000000000,timestamp=2018-04-05T04:51:21.741+0000) > > The items were being used outside of their intended means. > > The means for these items was gold generation for those with limited income that could be transitioned into cost efficient items for those limited incomes. > > Then every laner was buying a support item and upgrading it because the opportunity cost was way too low. Yes, hence my point: Support items were simply too good, and when other start strategies were nerfed they took the top slot. They've usually been borderline standard purchases; until riot decides to make a Support summoner spell and lock items behind it, the problem will remain.
: Mid laners and junglers were abusing spellthief for their completed paths, top laners were abusing coin, tanks with Face of the mountain were deemed to have too many shields.
> [{quoted}](name=Sp33d Zer0,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=GRA678rL,comment-id=0000,timestamp=2018-04-05T04:33:40.562+0000) > > Mid laners and junglers were abusing spellthief for their completed paths, top laners were abusing coin, tanks with Face of the mountain were deemed to have too many shields. Abusing implies that they were being used outside of their intended means. The fact is that support items were simply too good, and when other start strategies were nerfed they took the top slot. As per OP's question, Support items are almost universally too good, especially for their cost.
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DrLuau

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