nomeL (NA)
: I think you should be able to ping your support item charges.
Infernape (EUW)
: Even then ARAM does get pretty bullshit at times, when you're an assassin vs tanks or when you're melee vs 5 ranged champs with CC and poke.
In my experience if a tank/bruiser heavy teams just waits it out, farm and defend their tower, and don't get too aggressive they can easily win later in the game. It isn't the most fun, but an easy win if there isn't too much feeding.
: Is Riot trying to make the support role be more like the supports in Dota 2?
Not a fan TBH. Overall I'm fine with supports having low gold income IF Riot would reduce burst damage/raise max HP across the board. Right now it feels like you need a bunch of gold for items- either to burst the enemy down or provide enough defense to not get instagibbed. If we were simply allowed to live longer at baseline (with no gold) then we wouldn't need a bunch of gold to play with unless you're specifically playing a carry support. What if the two HP support items had some kind of unique passive- Reduces damage dealt by 30% and reduces damage received by 15%. The two offensive items could go in the other direction and give extra assist gold or something similar?
: I'm old and it's getting harder and harder to keep up
I don't have a problem with keeping up with the mechanics. It's more the level of burst most champions are putting out. Would be a good change if they increased every champion's max health by 25-30% just to give a bit of a buffer so fights can last longer.
: Is it possible to cancel the release of the new champion for now ?
Preseason is the exact most appropriate time, if anything.
: How To Fix A Support Life
The clear answer for supports is to add items that are super cost efficient but have a downside. For example: rework {{item:3193}} into a more affordable item with strong health/armor/resist, but it perpetually reduces all of your damage by 30%. One for enchanters that gives bonus AP when spells are used on allies, but not against enemies or yourself. One for AP supports that grants bonus damage, but only if another ally has damaged the enemy in the last 5 seconds, etc. I'm sure there are some abuse cases that would need to be designed around, but there need to be more cheap items we can buy that the other roles won't want because of their penalties.
Anu3isII (EUNE)
: The whole idea behind the support role is having a character that has enough power to be useful even with a lower income, since there are only 4 reliable sources of gold (the 3 lanes and the jungle). While Pyke and Senna may not have the most Utility in the world, they do bring a decent amount of Utility to make them useful. Pyke in particular has a Hook, a dash that applies an AoE Stun and an Ultimate that generates Gold. He has the tools to set-up kills for his allies and finish the escaping opponents. He is the definition of a catcher (or hooker), class that is defined by heavily aggressive playstyles. Senna instead feels like a true sniper, a backline character that brings both damage and utility from afar. While she is arguably overloaded (I personally think she has number issues, but that is another subject), every ability of her offers utility. Her Q is also a Heal, her W is an AoE Snare, her E is an AoE semi-camouflage with a Speed boost, her R is also a delayed Global AoE Shield. While they sure are broken right now, I feel like their concepts do take into account offering Utility for their team over dealing Damage and they could be balanced through some heavy number nerfs to not be as overbearing as they are.
My problem is squishiness on supports. Lately I've been building {{champion:432}} offtanky since he is so positioning dependant for his Q, while the support item changes maybe allow you to get {{item:3109}} earlier than before any subsequent items are certainly delayed. Would like to see a gold efficient item added that gives a nice amount of defensive stats, but actually cuts your damage and healing. Something like an affordable {{item:3193}} with less stats that is always active but comes with the penalty "Reduces all damage, healing and shielding by 25%" It could be OP on {{champion:111}} or {{champion:412}} but as a concept would be good for "sustained presence" CC supports.
: Lol did you know you can combined 2 fairy charms into an item that gives cdr and mana regen?{{item:3114}}
This is a problem before the first/second back. If you get a bunch of regen at the start you're delaying the support item, costing yourself gold and your team vision due to getting wards much later. If your stance is anti-carry-supports I'd think you would be in favor of cutting the offensive stats for more sustain...
: Thoughts on Omnistone, and how to improve
There is just way too much variance for this ever to be balanced on probably 85-90% of all champions.. Riot just needs to put in the effort to pick say, 4 appropriate keystones for each champion and have it cycle between them. Bard: Comet, Electrocute, Hail of Blades, Guardian. Zyra: Comet, Aery, Dark Harvest, Electrocute. Trundle: Conquerer, Grasp, PtA, Predator. Etc.
: I'm not touching support till they do something about the gold gen.
One would think if we're going to lose our late game gold generation we would at least keep the minion execute heal/mana regen on the starting support items. Should be able to keep our early game sustain if we're going to get screwed late game.
Elsewise (NA)
: Ashe Support?
I love it in ARAM. Comet + Ult Hunter. Essence Reaver, Lucidity Boots, and stack Lethality items. If her Q was something else she could be a really appealing support, but currently she's just a W and Ult spam champ with her hawk for deep vision. Not bad, but if I were to play an ADC support I'd lean towards MF, Jhin, or maybe even Varus.
Zullar (NA)
: Hotfix to Reduce Snowballing
I like the map changes the Drakes provide, but wouldn't mind seeing changes/nerfs to the buffs. More than anything the Elder Dragon buff is anti-fun in a game that already has too much burst. Change it to something closer to a suped up version of the old mountain Drake buff?
datfatguy (OCE)
: Why is full build so rare now
IMO really short games and really long games both have their own problems. I personally enjoy 30-40 minute games. The really long ones tend to stall out and become a mess while the really short ones are typically because one player got super fed and folks in the other lanes lose agency in the game...
: So uhhh... Is Elder Dragon fair?
I don't like it if only because there's already too much burst in the game. Wouldn't mind something else, equally as strong, but... different?
: Who's Supposed to Run Omnistone anyway?
There is just way too much variance for this ever to be balanced. Riot just needs to put in the effort to pick say, 4 **appropriate** keystones for each champion and have it cycle between them. Bard: Comet, Electrocute, Hail of Blades, Guardian. Zyra: Comet, Aery, Dark Harvest, Electrocute. Trundle: Conquerer, Grasp, PtA, Predator. Etc.
: Am I misunderstanding how the anti poach is supposed to work or something? Relic or whatever it is called shouldn't be triggering enough to get 20 cs per 5 minutes.
: New Spellthief item is useless
Give Mana Regen back to the base item. Reduce AP if necessary. Fixed.
: Time to stop pretending Senna is balanced?
Nerf the numbers, but leave the kit alone IMO. I've only played her a couple of times but she was quite fun.
: The way I see it is this: Lux/Ziggs/Veigar/Vel'Koz/etc. S-tiers are going to be in the match whether it's random or not. That's just the nature of rerolls and ARAM accounts. If we open up Blind Pick, we have the option of matching (Better Xerath Wins is infinitely more tolerable than Xerath Just Wins.), OR we can play something we enjoy playing and, at worst, lose with a Champion we like. This situation is so much better than anything the current "Random" can deliver.
True, but there's other champs that are a lot of fun in ARAM. I rather enjoy Cho'Gath, Nami, Lethality/Max CDR Jinx/Ashe/MF, etc.
: New support items
I don't really care about the GP/5- it sucks but no big deal. The loss of the CDR/Mana Regen/Execute heal (depending on your item choice), however, feels massive and makes supports feel like passive trash champions with no sustain the first 5-10 minutes of the game. Bring those portions back and I'll be happy to deal with the loss of GP/5.
: Same gold earned 1 more full item HMMMMM thinking Yeah seems totally weak. Please revert RIOT
We also no longer have mana regen or CDR on the support items. Makes laning before the first back pretty painful TBH. We're having to make up for the loss of these stats with the gold we saved anyway- and then if we ever eventually get to full build in a really long game we lose stats overall since the new items are so much weaker than the old versions. Overall, the versatility they added to the support items is nice, but the stat changes make it un-intuitively feel much worse.
: My Issues With Thresh
Yeah, that's pretty much what he's there for. He's not as tanky as Leona/Naut/etc. Can't heal/shield for any significant amount, and his damage is mediocre. He exists solely to have a crowd-control overloaded kit and chain abilities together to save an ally or enable a kill.
Rioter Comments
iiGazeii (NA)
: Can we re-buff the champs that were nerfed for pro play?
{{champion:201}} would also like to see some love for soloQ. He's been kept weak for ages because of his usefulness in organized play
: The support changes were good for the game.
I'm down with the sentiment that fed AP/AD supports were individually too strong, but supports who aren't fed shouldn't feel so helpless/non-impactful either. For me the appeal of playing support is tactically influencing the battlefield- crowd control/peeling, team utility, etc. Not so much raw damage/healing. But now (IE the past few seasons) you can't safely get close enough to do your job since even a mildy fed enemy player will near instantly delete you. Now with the preseason support item changes it's been made even worse on the defensive front since we now have less gold to put towards our defense items, our presence in the game is reduced to being a cowardly backliner or if we try to be a good, active playmaking supports we quickly become cannon fodder for the enemy carries. There has got to be a better way to allow supports to be impactful and live long enough to carry the game in our own indirect way but without becoming a one-man wrecking crew.
iiGazeii (NA)
: The counterplay is not letting the enemy get the teamfight-winning buff. It's like saying "man, a fed hypercarry has no counterplay". They do, but it's not in the moment they're destroying you. It's never letting it reach that point. Elder only spawns when one team has a dragon soul. This means that either the enemy got it, and they're currently using their advantage to close out the game, or your team got it, and you failed to defend Elder even with the dragon soul. At the absolute earliest, Elder is spawning 26 minutes into the game, and that's only if one team gets all four dragons right as they spawn. The whole point of it is to convert map control into winning the game. If your team can't control objectives and the enemy can, then you will probably lose anyway. Elder just expedites that process.
I agree 100% with your counterplay point. That said, I'm just not a fan of the implementation. League had too much burst before this execute was added to the game and now it's even worse. It feels like the gameplay in general has turned into a one-dimensional "get-fed and deal huge damage" competition and other concepts- mobility/kiting, CC, vision, sieging, flanking, battles of resource attrition, etc. are all becoming less relevant with every advancing season.
: > [{quoted}](name=Draehl,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=sWuyFRBH,comment-id=,timestamp=2019-11-11T19:32:31.165+0000) > > I'm personally excited about Omnistone. Seems like a good idea rewarding players who learn to utilize multiple keystone's based on the circumstances. I haven't gotten a chance to try it yet, but the consensus I've read is it's pretty weak. What do you folks think about making it champion specific? >For example: Riot chooses 5 keystones appropriate for each champion. I'd rather it be chosen automatically by an algorithm. As in "all keystones that this champion has taken in more than 1% of their matches played in this position this season, excluding those matches where the keystone taker's team lost." So if a champion takes that keystone in exactly 1% of games in that role, but it usually doesn't go well then it doesn't get added to the pool. But if it does work often, or it's taken in more than 2% of situations where that champ is played in that role, then it does. That way you get crazy offmeta stuff that's only situationally useful, but never stuff that's completely useless for the role, like Conqueror on support Soraka.
Not a bad idea! I wonder how much coding work that would take though...
Galiö (NA)
: And grasp and aftershock on bard. Too much variance I think I misread about choosing but I think that goes against the spirit of the rune.
That's fair. I'm trying to think about champs that aren't as good at using as many keystones. As a Bard main I know he can make solid (enough) use of most of them. But not all champs are as lucky.
Rioter Comments
HeeroTX (NA)
: Unfortunately, the "fed" part doesn't matter. I've been most fed member of my team several games as ADC, but me being up 4-5 kills at 15 mins means nothing when top and mid are a combined 0-9 and jungle is either feeding more kills or afk-farming. My final game last night, I shit you not, enemy JG declares that they're int'ing at start of game and proceeds to run it down mid all game. Enemy team has an int'er so of course we win right? Nope, Despite being 12-0 around 10 mins, mids STILL loses lane, top ALSO loses lane and for SOME idiotic reason, even though there is NO enemy jungle because he's literally just int'ing I'm stuck in a 2v1 bot because support and our own JG think it looks like a blast to go for the freebies in mid and instead of using our advantage in numbers just feed by chasing the int'er for no reason at all. And yes, we LOST that game against a team with an int'er.
That's fair. I still think it stems from _someone_ getting too fed. Some champions are particularly tough to bounce back against and score a shutdown before it's too late. Most games are way too short. I get that (in ranked especially) folks want to lock down their win and move on, but at the same time the most rewarding games are the really close/balanced ones where it goes to 45 minutes and you barely eek out a win through superior teamwork rather than one person getting crazy fed and going 1v5.
: Personal opinion: season 9 has become the hardest one to carry and win games in
I think it's the 'playing support' bit. Whether it's someone on the enemy team or your's getting fed, it's ultimately **not you**. We still get the same minimal support gold income. It's why even after all the nerfs I've gone back to playing {{champion:143}} even though I'm much better at and enjoy playing {{champion:432}} so much more. She gets more kill = more gold = more control of your destiny. Support as a role feels much better when damage is low and the meta is less snowbally :/
: Youd think a large balloon man would be tanky but nothing in his kit promots it. I feel like hes not really expected to have any stats but mana regen and CDR since his scaling is ass in every way but crit chance ironically.
Nothing directly, you're 100% right on that. That said, the very positioning/angle intensive nature of his Q really promotes the idea of moving in closer and moving more freely around to get to the right spot. Maybe I'm biased, but tank items should be viable for other roles. Maybe not *ideal* but at least have a noticeable impact vs. the current situation.
GigglesO (NA)
: No Defense = Poor Gameplay
I just want a game where fights either naturally last longer or we have a choice to build tank items (on non tanks) to reasonably live longer like in season 4-5. Longer fights are just more fun and move the emphasis from vision/catching out to playing well over a longer period of time during team fights- repositioning, chasing, using multiple skill rotations, etc. I really, really miss playing offtank {{champion:432}} in these long fights back in the day. Stun, drop a health pack near ADC, Magical Journey behind the enemy flank to setup the next stun, hold Tempered Fate for a great catch or escape, Stun, Journey away, etc. Nowadays I can carry a game MUCH harder with Bard due to his early damage, but I actually prefer the more beefy/utilitarian playstyle that is durable enough to setup those flanking plays I just can't do any more since I die if an ADC/Mage/Assassin/Fighter so much as looks at me. Raw burst damage is boring, one dimensional, and ultimately selfish.
Rioter Comments
: Forgotten Champions
SoloQ? Not so much. In organized team tourneys (only gold level, but still) I see Azir, Gnar, Olaf, Shen, Viktor, and Zac. Kog, Nid, Taliya, and Trundle definitely are absent from both though.
Jamaree (NA)
: For all the people saying damage is too high, are you willing to let your main/role take a nerf?
Support main and I'd be fine with most any nerf that came my way. I simply prefer the tactical style of longer fights and feel that the game being so bursty puts way too much emphasis on positioning/vision control rather than actually playing your champion and adapting to conditions within a fight. Right now there's just way, way too much emphasis on catching someone out, turning it into a 5v4 and pressing your advantage from there. That said, IMO it would be much healthier for the game if damage was unchanged and defensive/tank items were instead tweaked. Some could remain as-is, but there needs to be a some items that offer massive defensive stats but come with a significant **damage penalty**. That way we could return to the super-tanks of the old days who can truly front-line but they would be dealing much less damage than they currently are. It would also go far to revive the utility caster playstyle- champions like Bard, Karma, Lulu, etc. who want sustained battlefield presence at the expense of their damage output. Just for example: _Thornmail_ would gain even more armor, but come with a -15% penalty to all damage you deal. I'd probably extend this idea to one other armor item and two MR items. **TLDR: Damage levels are high, but would be fine if players who dislike burst damage had a reasonable option to counter it.**
: Remove penetration, nerf base damages, buff item ad/ap amounts
Agreed on your point for sure- its tends to be such a dichotomy of OP or useless in most cases. What are your thoughts on the usefulness of tank items for non-tanks? I played a lot until early season 5 so am definitely speaking from those days as a point of reference. Back I often played Bard as more of an offtank, forsaking damage/healing in order to play a little more aggro and get better stun angles, etc. Now if you're not a tank building those kind of items seems to have minimal effect on survivability. It's almost like Riot is giving the finger to people who don't like burst damage.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: March 6
Hi Meddler! Late reply, but I was wondering if you could comment on Bard? I won't say he's in dire need of buffs or anything, but the power distribution in his kit feels overly concentrated in his very early game trading/kill pressure and if you can't make good on it he really feels behind the whole game. Would be curious specifically on your thoughts on cutting his early damage a bit and either increasing his AA range (safer trades) and/or making him a little more durable in his defensive stat growth (better all-in potential later game). He's so positioning dependant for his Q and AA combo yet is easily outpoked or killed outright in the mid/late game. Thanks for any insight you could provide!
: I can tell you just came back because you're way off the mark. Actually, a lot of champions are putting out less and slower damage than they need to be healthy. That's why we have drama like aftershock lissandra and lulu mid is fine right now. Nothing can kill them.
Maybe I'm coming at it from the perspective of a support main, but I feel like I chunk and get chunked much harder than before Runes Reforged. Hell, Level 1-2 Bard w/ Electrocute I can take nearly half the health of many champions with a Q + AA combo, but I can't wade in like I once could even when building purely defensive support items. The same with Nautilus too, for another example. He doesn't live nearly as long as he used to, but his full CC combo (with the ADC behind of course) is most often a very easy kill. Maybe there's some champions that do less than they have in very recent memory, but the overall state of the game feels very burst damage oriented. I'm only in gold though, maybe things feel different higher up?
Rioter Comments
macspam (NA)
: im gonna be honest, i am not sure sometimes if the Bard shrine is completed or not. It needs a visiblle timer.
Every Bard skin has something about the Shrine that makes it stand out much more. Base skin has a brighter glow effect. Snow day has a full cup that is has a straw in it that spins and the whole Shrine has a particle effect. Either way it only takes 10 seconds so it's normally pretty obvious :)
: I haven't seen anything about this but if it's true, it's the first time they would be breaking their rework philosophy of "keeping a champion's identity intact." I and I'm sure many other players would agree that Teemo's on-hit poison, alongside his Blind and Mushrooms, is an iconic part of his kit.
OP is over-reacting. Hit kit has all the same elements, they tweaked how some of the skills work/interact but the core identity is the same. See the dev post on it:
: The obscenely heavy influnence esports has on balance needs to stop.
Ignoring specific champions for a moment I feel the reason for the burstier meta the past few years is because it makes for a more exciting spectator esport but not as enjoyable for your average player as a game. Assassins and burst mages, sure, but I know a lot of folks enjoy the game more when burst/snowball isn't as extreme and fights last longer.
Meddler (NA)
: Quick Gameplay Thoughts: February 22
Is there anything on the table for Bard in the near future? He's certainly not in dire straights, but his kit has felt somewhat unbalanced lately. His early damage is quite strong and can lead to strong snowballed roaming yet his usefulness really wanes into mid/late game if he even falls a little behind. Maybe a slight nerf to his base damage (early ranks especially) combined with some functionality changes like +25 AA range and a little more health? Just some thoughts as someone who loves maining the champ. Thanks!
: Have you considered playing Nami or Sona? Try pinging them off the shrine if you see them going there at the wrong time and politely remind them not to take it until it matures.
Yeah, I play them a good bit in team tourney games (more so Nami) but prefer Bard in SoloQ even though the enchanters are better ATM.
Rioter Comments
JuiceBoxP (EUNE)
: I don't know what elo you are playing in, but here in silver i am pretty much the bully when using bard. When at level 1 your q + AA + passive + electrocute chops 30% of an adc's health you know you got a strong champion...
Rioter Comments
: Idea for an Inspiration or Resolve-located tankiness rune
I get this isn't supposed to be a Keystone but it would be nice to have a keystone that helps squishier champions move towards more of an offtanky role for different type builds if they're willing to give up some damage/healing/shielding innate in their kit. Aftershock only works with certain kits/situations, Guardian is more about protecting the ADC, and Grasp is pretty bad considering champions with lower base health who are ranged. Would be great to see a fourth option that actually provides sustained defense or let's tank items become more effective.
CLG ear (NA)
: > [{quoted}](name=Draehl,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7wEYA6ex,comment-id=0002,timestamp=2019-02-04T00:02:24.694+0000) > > {{champion:254}} {{champion:89}} {{champion:37}} are all pretty beefy. Hell, there's actually rather few petite champions who aren't teenagers. {{champion:99}} {{champion:133}} {{champion:84}} {{champion:222}} maybe? Most of the female champs in the game are built like chesty Barbie dolls as the OP said. why is jinx there she is a stick figure lmao
> [{quoted}](name=CLG ear,realm=NA,application-id=yrc23zHg,discussion-id=7wEYA6ex,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2019-02-04T00:04:36.741+0000) > > why is jinx there she is a stick figure lmao Re-read my post.
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