Kanzler (NA)
: Ok. And your statement saying that the balance team is oversimplifying the game loses a bit (read a lot) of its impact when you put into context the evidence you provided. As I said, the change is negligible. Do you want gas stations to tell you that the new pump handle will lift 50% quicker to its max speed for the first 5% of the motion? Or do you just want to pump your fucking gas?
Comparing playing a game that (used to) involve mentally outperforming your opponent to pumping gas ins't a good analogy. If I'm pumping gas I'm trying to fill my tank and be done with it, If I'm playing a computer game that is fairly easy to play mechanically I want the ability to outperform my opponents in some way, if the games mechanics aren't challenging this leaves mentally out thinking your opponent. So when I play league I don't just want to "press my fucking keys" and be done with it. I want there to be interesting decisions to make, otherwise why the fuck am I sitting at my desk playing a game that takes 20-30 apm max, lasts 15-40 minutes and has maybe 4-5 situations that require semi-decent reaction speeds? (Edit: I should admit that there are a few champs that require fairly difficult mechanics, such as Gangplank, but even playing Gangplank doesn't compare to the mechanical difficulty of many other games out there. The point stands that the majority of champions, even the strong meta ones, are very simple to play) In a season where you have a large section of the player base complaining about lots of other overpowered capstone runes, why was this change made? If the change is meaningless then what impact is it having? If it does have an impact why is it being hidden from players ability to make an informed decision? There's an easy answer here but you refuse to see it. I didn't post on this forum to pick a fight bud, I used to love this game, just like you probably still do. I played a lot of games of league over 4-5 years. There is no reason to be hostile towards me because i post an opinion that you don't like. I'm allowed to dislike the game in it's current state. I'm not here to stop you from playing the game or enjoying it. I'm sorry that you see me as a threat and feel the need to lash out by telling me to "cry more".
: > [{quoted}](name=fallenreaper88,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=LXbuARUe,comment-id=00000000,timestamp=2018-01-16T18:23:34.661+0000) > > Honestly he has a valid point. Saying that lol is a competitive game but then saying things shouldnt be listed because your overthinking it is hypocritical. No really. That tooltip was hella confusing when I first read it. They're right that if you're actually making big decisions AROUND it, then you're not probs doing something wrong.
Confusing for you is a benefit for me because it's a part of the game that you don't take the time to learn and understand, but I do. A part of the game that I then get rewarded for using and playing around properly. Too bad that's not how League works anymore.
Kanzler (NA)
: Feel free to post the context of that note. That change is literally less significant than the nexus awarding 50 gold when you kill it. Cry more.
I specifically left out what the exact change was because that wasn't what my post was about. I'm not 'crying" about the change that was made, I'm "crying" about the philosophy of the balance team to not deem clarity, information, and complexity as a valuable part of a MOBA style game. They made a change to improve how something works, and then immediately told players you don't have to think about how the change will affect gameplay, just press the right keys and the game basically plays itself. This was my point. . . . . . . And this is your head. And btw if you re-read my thread carefully you'll see that I wasn't "crying" I was laughing. I actually laughed at how retarded the balance team is and what changes they decided to make, and I found this one line particularly revealing, so I decided to share.
Rioter Comments
: Hey guys, I'll throw out a few responses here. On balance philosophy - we realize that our strategy for who we balance for isn't well articulated. Do we balance for LCS or for Silver players? Or both? We're trying to make sure we agree on what our actual goal is, because I think "We balance for everyone!" is a little too precious and unrealistic. We'll communicate our strategy when we've made sure we're on the same page. Balance philosophy is a topic that greatly interests me. I don't make the individual tuning changes personally (and you wouldn't want me to) so I can't provide as much context on specific patch notes, though I do help set the philosophy and direction for what kinds of changes we try to make. Related, "win rate" gets used a lot as synonymous with balance, but that doesn't tell the whole story. We need to communicate better about what game balance means to us, because there's more to it than that. A lot of what you're discussing in this thread is sort of "pre-balancing." We're making a change (that we have wanted to make for some time!) by removing DFG, and we know that change would have big ramifications if we didn't adjust some champs to compensate. Those adjustments, while grounded in math, playtesting and player feedback, still often come down to educated guesses, because we don't have the data from thousands of live games yet. A more accurate but painfully slow way to balance is to make one change, see how the live game reacts, then make another change in response to that. We think this would feel worse overall. On design accountability -- it totally exists. It's part of my job to make sure it exists. Now, it's not the kind of thing you're likely to see a lot. We're not going to publicly flog designers for making mistakes, though I can understand why that might be cathartic. On the other hand, designers (and anyone at Riot really) should be upfront and honest with you guys about when they think they've made a mistake. On designers buffing champions that they like to play -- this would be a big accountability issue. As someone pointed out, while we are all gamers here, this is also a place of business with a product (LoL) and customers (you guys). It's royally unprofessional to try and tweak the game to benefit your own personal games. That's a serious breach of trust (Rioter and players) that would come with serious consequences. We may make changes you don't understand or don't agree with, but it's not because we're trying to boost our own ELO. On Lee and Thresh -- they are champions we like, but more importantly, they also resonate with a lot of players. It's not a popularity contest, but on the other hand, we believe a lot of why people play them is because they are fun to play, not just because they win a lot. Both champs have a lot of cool abilities, and arguably they both have so many that a) neither has a lot of weaknesses, and b) they compliment almost any comp you try to build. We're trying to figure out ways to make them less awesome in every situation without stripping away what is fun about them. For example, last year or so we tried to tone down Lee's mobility and ward hopping, but it felt terrible, and largely due to player feedback (intelligent, meaningful feedback, not whining and pitchforks) we reverted it. As always, we appreciate the feedback. The more targeted and actionable it is, the more useful it is for us. I can go tell the balance team "Boards say you suck" and they would kind of look at me and say "Okay, what changes in how we adjust champions should we make?" and I would say "You just suck." There's not really a lot of direction for improvement there. Hugs, GC
It's really pretty simple, if a champion has a strong kit with a lot of cool abilities and utility, you need to strip away their power/scaling off of stats. For example: Yasuo has a huge kit, so you originally had him balanced by reducing his crit damage lower than other champions so that he couldn't scale as well as other auto attack crit champions. Famously, when vayne was too strong you took away a small amount of her base ad, effectively making it so it took longer for her to scale to full power. Unfortunately though, you reworked the rune pages so that they have a ton of effects that proc when a player accomplishes a set of actions "three autos, three separate abilites. This means the new rune system gives a huge gold equivilent avantage to champions whose kits are already strong and encourage the use of these special effects that need to be "activated". Allowing them to be strong without needing raw stats. You used to have a system that allowed players to fine tune their stats (the old rune pages) allowing all champs to be strong, If a champ had a weak kit but was balanced by having better scaling, then you got "more" from the old rune page because that champ used stats more efficiently. This allowed for all champs to be balanced to an acceptable level. Now champs with strong kits but who don't scale well off of stats get more from rune pages, AND they also get to scale well because you fucking added percentage scaling to a bunch of the rune keystones. So the champs that are strong early remain strong. Hope that helps more than "you fucking suck at balancing games and you should be fired for not seeing something so pathetically obvious" :)
Atlas (EUNE)
: ***
Vad Nova (NA)
: Game has gone downhill hard (rant warning)
Former Diamond player and I agree with all you said. I played preseason ranked and got hardstuck in gold because nothing makes sense anymore, I don't feel rewarded for playing well, only for playing champs that "work" in the current meta. If I play champ X vs champ Y, I have to get a 2k gold lead just to equalize the playing field because of the fact that champ Y scales off runes more and gets a 2k gold equivalent advantage from it. This wasn't always the case. It used to be that runs gave a flat boost to stats, or a flat boost that scaled with level or a percentage modifier, so it could allow any champ to be viable since every champ used **stats**... Yes some champs used stats more efficiently, but they were balanced by having a weaker laning phase, or a less diverse kit, so that they either took time to scale and struggled in lane, or they depended on working with their team. It used to be that Masteries gave very small percentage boosts and small bonus effects that were geared toward rewarding consistently playing well and building a lead (like feast, or 2% movespeed out of combat, or +50 HP to help you not get bursted by champs). Now you can get 12% armor/MR shred with three autos PLUS a chunk of flat damage. Now the champs with strong kits are just stronger, and the champs that had weaker kits but had better scaling/used raw stats better seem worse/unviable. And the worst part is that there is no way they will be able to balance this. There are just too many champs and too many interactions for there to be a rune system that requires things to be "activated" by using skills in a certain order or by performing certain actions (hit three separate abilities, three autos, cc an enemy, etc.). It will always favor champions whose kits already offer incentives and tools for activating these effects. It will always disfavor champions who cannot consistently activate these effects/don't want to because it doesn't suit there optimum playstyle. We saw abuse cases with the old keystones, with DFT, fervor of battle, warlords bloodlust, we saw Thunderlords being extremely popular. But whatever the playerbase saw as abuse and/or making select champions absurdly stronger, the Riot "balance team" saw as a way to spice up the game. and by "spice up the game" they obviously meant to relegate specific champions to the spotlight and others to the sideline and stagnate innovation and make the game extremely dependent on using champs designed specifically to utilize the new runes, in other words, NEW CHAMPIONS. Coincidence that they also make BE/Reward system update that makes acquiring all champs over a long period of time slightly easier but makes acquiring the specific champion you want quickly much more difficult? I don't think so. I honestly think the gameplay update and the reward system update were designed hand in hand to force players to want to play new champions designed specifically to abuse the new runes, while also making it hell to grind out enough games to acquire those champs for free. Forcing players to **PAY** to play the champs that better equipped **TO WIN**. After 4 and a half years, I've uninstalled this game and have zero desire to reinstall. I hate watching my friends play this game now because I know it's just a scam. Luckily there are better games out there.
Mojihito666 (EUNE)
: Hard stuck plat
Beause it's literally gambling, you have no control over winning or losing in this game anymore unless you pcik early game snowball champs, sad to say it, but it's true. https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd If you REALLY only care about winning games, pick a champ that dominates lane and snowballs hard and can roam, counterpick your opponent. Otherwise I suggest uninstalling and finding a game where you can feel like your performance impacts if you win or lose. I could go into detail and write a couple paragraphs on why league is no longer that game when it was. The current matchmaking works like this: First assume that a difference in 100 MMR statistically yields 50% better chance for winning a game for the higher ranked player, And a difference in 10 MMR yields a 5% chance of winning for a better player, and so on. A 200 difference in MMR would mean that statistically, over 100 games would have to be played before the weaker player won. This is in general how the chess ELO rating system works. With Riot's matchmaking this is what is is possible: If I have 1300 MMR, I could get matched with three 1100 MMR players and one 1000 MMR player, and get matched vs two 1200 players and three 1100 mmr players. My teams average MMR is 1120, the opposing teams average MMR is 1140. A reasonably fair match according to our first assumption, the other team has a slight advantage, a difference of 20 MMR indicates a 10% better chance of winning for the higher ranked team, fairly reasonable, with an "odds" value of 55% to 45%. Seems fair. But in reality League of legends doesn't work like that. It is not an ARAM with all 5 players clumped into one lane together. Players have different strengths and preferences in style and also different roles impact the game more or less and different points in the game (most junglers tend to impact early game for example) Worse yet, in this meta particularly games are decided almost entirely by two things: 1) who has the worst player on their team? This player will fail early and give up a significant lead and most likely first tower, starting a huge snowball that will remove "mid game" opportunities from the game and give one team a huge gold advantage and an easy door to late game baron and dragon control. 2) which team adheres most strongly to the meta picks and chooses strong meta champions. This current season favors meta and "high tier" champions far above any other champions, much more than other seasons previously have. And higher level players will statistically choose champions that are closer to the core of meta champions (higher up the "tier list") than lower ranked players who lack the understanding or experience to know what champions are strong currently. So let's look at my game specifically again: My team vs Their team: Top lane 1000 rated player vs 1200 rated player: nearly 100% chance of snowballing in their favor Mid lane 1300 rated player (me) vs 1200 rated player: 67% chance of snowballing in my favor Bot lane two 1100 rated players vs two 1100 rated players: balances out for the sake of simplicity of argument (but realistically it's a 50-50 whose outcome will have a huge impact) Jungle: 1100 rated player vs 1200 rated player: 67% chance to help one or more of the opposing teams lane to snowball early. So what are my actual odds of winning? Realistically, none. Top will snowball no matter what, so I am racing vs a clock to somehow win lane harder and faster than their top laner who has a 200 MMR skill advantage. I also have to make sure our bot lane wins hard by ganking for them. This means I have to play aggressive early and expose myself to their better jungler, who may be camping me. If he isn't camping me he is ganking top and taking top tower before I can even get off the ground. Or He is camping bot, and now even If I win lane, the best i can do is to try to follow up bot to even up the odds bot lane again, but our top is still losing no matter what. It's a lose-lose situation in what should be a 55-45 odds game. A game where I don't really have any chance to impact the game. I've played this game a lot, and I've put a lot of thought into it. I've honestly tried to analyze my games and improve as a player as much as I can. Last season I made it to mid diamond (promos for diamond 3) before that I was high plat for 3 seasons in a row. But after being hardstuck gold 3 for over a month in this preseason despite playing as good if not better than last season, I'm giving up on this game. I've uninstalled. What I've come to learn is that this balance team knows jack shit about good design and giving agency to players, the matchmaking system is straight fucked. Their are better games out there. This preseason completely fucked this game unless you play hardline meta champs and abuse runes to their most effect, typically by playing the obvious picks without thinking. This game was interesting when their were many options available, where you could make lots of different things work, when there was a mid and late game. Now it's just about abusing runes and and snowballing hard early game.
: I'm probably gonna be roasted alive, but... One CertainlyT champion I liked was {{champion:412}}. He may have a kit that covers almost everything, but it wasn't unbearable to play against. His Q had a hellishly long CD if you missed, but he can still support with his E. W has creative uses both for escape and engage, and his ult isn't even that bad if you know what you're doing. Just me? Okay.
He's unbearable to play against as a nongap closer melee champ. or really any melee champ.
: I think part of the problem with champions that are fun to play, but not fun to play against, is that they kind of exploit a statistical loophole. With the data we currently have, it's really easy to tell how popular a champion is, but it's not nearly as easy to gauge the effect they're having on the rest of the game: when a champion's really popular, for example, they tend to have a very consistent pick rate, even when their win rate is low. This looks excellent on paper because it means the champion's attracting a lot of players, and more players is always a good thing. However, when these champions have a negative effect on the rest of the game, that effect cannot be measured in the same way: if a champion is so unhealthy they cause, say, a million players to leave, that will only reflect itself in the overall player count, which is influenced by many more factors than just one kit. If the game overall has experienced updates that brought in new players, that effect might not even be seen at all. This is also assuming an extreme case where champions make players quit permanently, when in reality the effect is likely a lot more subtle, and may not even express itself fully in any short-term period. The mere presence of Yasuo, Kalista, Zoe, etc. may not be enough to make players quit outright, but it can certainly make them more likely to quit in the future, reduce the time they spend playing League, damage their engagement with Riot and the game, make them less interested in making monetary purchases, and so on. Because these are all very general effects, however, it is very difficult to isolate the impact of specific champions on all of these factors, short of doing testing or market research on a massive and regular scale, neither of which Riot seem to be doing. Because of this, and because Riot seems to have become increasingly reliant on data rather than direct player feedback, I think it's led to a champion design philosophy that has occasionally been rather unhealthy, particularly with a lot of CertainlyT's champions: because designing a champion that is fun to play, but not necessarily fun to play against, can generate really visible positive results, many champions have thus been made exclusively around that design pillar, to the detriment of their counterplay. In turn, this has led to a line of champions with very strong playerbases, the latter of which can easily be cited in their defense (Riot has often cited play rates for champions like Lee Sin, Riven, Yasuo, etc. as sole proof that they're well-designed champions), but which have also likely had a detrimental effect to the game overall, by decreasing the total enjoyment of other players. Riot doesn't disclose League's player count, so it's not really possible to make any judgment based off of that, but even so, while champion popularity can be easy to quantify, overall enjoyment isn't. Because of this, I think Riot needs to do research however they can on the impact their champions have on the game, beyond just their own playerbases, and until that happens I fear that this kind of design process will persist, and we will continue to receive champions that are mostly only fun for whoever's playing them.
This is a good point. Except ban rates would probably indicate fairly well if a champion is not desired to be played a gainst ( cough cough zoe 70+% banrate, yasuo being perma banned for months at a time, and always having a high ban rate) In a competitive game, there will always be moments that suck, where you feel powerless as events already in motion cause you to die or lose ground (checkmate in 4 moves, but you still have to play those 3 moves or decide to forfeit). But as long as there is definitively something you could have done to avoid such a situation then it's fine. It's when there is no clear decision or choice that led to that outcome, and was simply a manifestation of one champion being oppressive that it's a problem. For example, "I keep getting hit by yasuo 3rd q and thus getting ulted or dashed onto, feels bad and I know I'm probably F-d, but I know what I did wrong atleast." Vs. "I lose any trade I try to take with yasuo because he gets high crit chance from a single item purchase and has a free shield every wave or even more often, and he's an auto-attacking champion so he regens 100+ hp every wave by clearing it with autos, feels bad, but like wtf can I do, it's yasuo so he auto wins lane unless I somehow kill him multiple times from my jungler helping me, but guess what he scales off crit and is an ad champ so you only have a limited time before he is stronger than you again. Oh well, I guess I'll remember to ban him next game :/" Note, this isn't necessarily how I feel, but how a typical player would, and does, feel when playing vs a yasuo. This is a perspective that i sincerely think riot just doesn't understand. Because yes the laning phase sucks, but the worst part is I have no power. I could be the best player on my team but I'm stuck in lane with a yasuo perma shoving me and tossing nado's constantly so I can't go help my teamates or affect the rest of the game, and his kit is like a brick wall to lane against.
: I personally think that CertainlyT is not fleshed out for the League's Design Philosophy.
In 2013 I was a top-top Master tier (top 2%), near Grandmaster (top 200 in NA) Starcraft 2 player, I typically averaged 180+ APM per game, knew 20+ hotkeys and how to manage them quickly, and I had great mouse accuracy and the ability to micro 3-4 different sets of units in multitasking harassment style attacks while still building units and teching in my base, something that requires a very high amount of mechanical skill. Then I started playing League of Legends, I got placed in bronze and struggled for most of the season before making it to gold. Then next season I was plat, and struggled for 3 seasons to make it to diamond. Because this game **ISN'T MECHANICALLY DIFFICULT**. Sorry if you think it is, but it isn't compared to many other games out there. But it is a difficult game, It's about game knowledge and decision making, map rotations and knowing how to effectively trade in lane and avoid jungler ganks, knowing your role in teamfights, shot calling and team play, and many other skills as well that aren't mechanically difficult. Or at least it was, before this preseason. Now it's just about dominating early game for the snowball, which means picking lane bullies. If you want to make a champion mechanically difficult to play, that's fine, but that DOES NOT justify making them more powerful, not in a game where the relative skill ceiling for mechanics is comparatively low to other games. I once got my brother, who plays DOTA 2 and Heros of Newerth to play League with me once. He had never seen or played league before. He picked Zed (because he thought he looked cool) and went 23-0 and said, yea this game is boring. It is wayyyyyyyyyy more difficult to play vs a mechanically proficient zed, or katarina or yasuo, than it is to actually play that champ at a mechanically proficient level. Not because it's mechanically difficult to play vs these champs, but because they are OPPRESSIVE, because a small slip up and you get destroyed and then the snowball happens, and this can happen just from a bad trade, forcing you back and they roam and easily pick up kills because of their kit. This is an IMBALANCE, and an indication that the game is NOT BALANCED CORRECTLY. It really really feels like, for a long time now, the balance team of this game has been living under this delusion that league is a highly mechanical game to play, and that introducing overbearing, over tuned champs into the game is fine as long as they are "mechanically difficult" to play. While ignoring what actually makes this game difficult and interesting, which is the teamplay, map rotations, having a balanced contestable laning phase (instead of just one person being an obvious lane bully and the other person farming under tower) etc.
: Are games really snowbally? Let's see the stats
https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd Playing macro games for late game in season 8 LUL
: > [{quoted}](name=Aedificator1410,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=nWhUL7ZL,comment-id=00030000,timestamp=2017-12-30T04:45:15.443+0000) > > No offense, but in SilverV (which is your current rank according to op.gg), anything works. i duo soley with a high diamond/ex challenger player, my elo on this account has zero reflection of my skill. I hate people like you. And if youre down, i would like to challenge you to any set of skill tests youd like. 1v1, 2v2, 5v5, aram, farm comp, etc. And only under the circumstances that after i steamroll you, i can post it to youtube.
I had a friend in silver and I used to duo with him in flex (I'm a high plat low diamond player), He is very good he just doesn't play ranked much and doesn't want to grind levels in this retarded ranked system that isn't just a ELO type number rating, like any competitive game should be. Coincidentally when we used to duo we would play alistar taric bot double aftershock and completely destroy every lane we ever played and hard carry the game. Damage is indeed too high right now, it's all about abusing your powerspike and you're runes, if you're a tank that means shitting on people early with base damage while getting tanky enough to not get insta killed yourself. I've had more success on _**Karthus**_ by running electrocute over comet because this meta is purely about early game... And people still trying to tell me this game is balanced right now.
: If anything works how does the other team lose? :thinking:
: Some things to consider when comparing HotS to LoL: 1) HotS as more team objectives. - Instead of 5 turrets, inhib, and nexus (Single lane analysis); you have 6 turrets (recently dropped from 9), 3 inhibs that fight back, 3 "gates," a nexus that fights back, and health/mana potions next to each inhib. 2) HotS has more powerful neutral objectives. - Dragons, harolds, barons, alters, and spiders don't win games. They help teams do what they're already doing. Neutral objectives in HotS are (generally) *how* you win the game. With very few exceptions, winning lanes and ignoring neutrals will lose the game. 3) HotS has a *significantly* less flexibility. Which makes fine tuning *lot* easier. - A character designed to be a tank (Johanna) can never be anything but a tank. They can do increased damage, but in-game systems ensure they will never come remotely close to an assassin. This means they can be balanced on the assumption that they will always do the only thing they're designed to do - they way they're designed to do it. No Tank Ekkos and AP Tryndameres here. - Meanwhile in LoL, any character is technically capable to doing near ADC level damage. With bad ratios, you can still generally stack enough AP to kill a squishy. And even the most die-hard squishies can become brick walls (Tank Yasuo, Akali, Fizz, Ekko, Vayne, etc.). 4) Hots supports are healers. - ***ALL OF THEM.*** That is literally the defining characteristic of a support in HotS. And they heal a *ton.* On the weakest end, Tass gives *shielded* characters 40% life steal. On the opposite extreme, Auriel can 1-100 her entire team with a basic skill (yes, there are caveats to this). By HotS standards, Soraka is laughably bad. - Not to mention all the sustain in HotS: Regen globs with every minion wave and neutral objective (can now steal enemy globes as well), Wells that restore 40/30% health/mana every 2 minutes, and generally higher regen overall (until LoL reaches late game). 5) Team levels. - How do assassins farm in LoL? Target who ever got shut down during lane phase and never let them leave base. What happens when they do this in HotS? They miss experience, putting their entire team behind if they fail. Conversely, a lost lane in LoL always results in that team being -1 player; even if another lane snowballed. While in HotS, these two will balance each other out keeping both teams even. - A lot of the power in LoL is that small 1 character lead. Because players that break even often have no recompense for an ally that is behind other than to let them fall further behind. One of the biggest contributors to snowballing right now isn't necessarily damage, but how quickly and easily leads can compound on themselves.
Wait, what was your point? I just read your whole post, it was very well formatted and informative but you literally just listed differences between hots and LoL... feeling confused. IMO I agree with the OP, and non of the things you listed seem to contradict what hes saying. they are very different games for sure, and so need to be balanced differently. But as a stand alone, I think most people would agree League was funner when you had resists options from runes and masteries (the current "runes") didn't give you a bunch of free burst for literally no other reason than to "spice up the game". League is trying to evolve into something it never was, and shouldn't be. League was always about laning, that was the enjoyable part of league. People started mass complaining when junglers became too strong and fucked with lanes too much, when towers became weaker, and now when the laning phase ends at 5 minutes. The entire game, i can only assume and i sure hope it was intentional, was balanced around being able to lane long enough to pick up atleast one fully built item, so that you get an item for laning, and then you start building other items as the game pace dictates, team fight item, snowballing item, split pushing item, defensive item, etc. Now all three lanes are over by the time i finish my first item, but it doesn't even matter because all the power i got before from building a gold lead and an item advantage has now been front loaded into runes, they give flat burst damage that scales with level and often even give percentage increases to damage as well. CS literally doesn't matter in this game any more besides as experience. And the new rune system fucking up the gold system and the relevancy of items is just one aspect. By removing the old rune system they completely fucked this game up balance wise, nothing makes sense anymore. And to be fair, this is kind of what they intended to happen, I'm not claiming this was some unforseen blunder that riot stumbled into, they wanted to shake things up. But can we all jut admit its not really working? Please? You can make games fast paced and enjoyable to watch and play without removing macro elements, Starcraft can do it, League had it too, but now its gone.
: Just an observation...take it for what you will.
Don't forget the fact that they also took out rune pages. UNINSTALL
: Ever been on a losing streak and just get more and more emotionally unsettled looking for a win
Don;t take a break, quit. This game is just the slotmachine now, youre wasting your time and energy on something that is entirely out of your control. https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd I recently uninstalled, as should you.
: Why I (veteran) am slowly losing interest in League
https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd All I really need to say.
: I lost almost all interest for League of Legends
https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd Oh wow I outplayed my lane Oh okay I didn't die at all from their jungler spam ganking me constantly oh wow I got ganked again and am basically laning 1v2 all game, still didn't feed oh wow I'm 4/0 and up 40 cs on my lane opponent oh okay we lost because their adc was better than ours, oh okay I lost 4 out of 5 games because their adc was better than ours in all 4. Oh I won a game I wonder how? because my adc went 7/0 and won lane. Ok I'll learn from my mistakes and try to improve as a player. Oh wait jk, I uninstalled, bye league of slotmachine, I'm done. Riot balance team? go fuck yourselves. Pce.
: Something is really wrong with the state of this game..
https://imgur.com/a/brmeo#OjzlPAd Uninstalled until Riot makes some big changes
Durzaka (NA)
: The only thing S about that score is that almost no one plays Karthus and you got a good amount of farm. So not really sure the point of the post is.
You ever consider that most of those deaths come at the end of the game when I'm dying to players that my teamates have been feeding for 20 min straight, in a desperate attempt to not lose the game? In that last game I was 4/0 and suicided to kill the 9/0 zed who i had to lane agaisnt all game as a karthus, whom i never once fed, who got first blood off our alistar before minions spawned. Who I still managed to get a 30+ cs lead on and keep shoved despite being fucking KARTHUS vs a FED ZED. Then, I suicided again to kill the fed xayah and get a shut down on her, plus i killed somebody else. then I died in a big teamfight and helped get assists for shutdowns on two more people, kills that went to my adc, then i died again right before we lost, and got another SHUT DOWN. I also had the most damage in the game by like 20k. But my point is this, league is a team game, five players are on a team, so you can only control 20% of your teams performance. You can only do your own job and do it as well as you can. In every single one of the last 5 games, I win lane, I do the most damage in the game, I almost never die and if i do I almost always trade for a shutdown or at least a kill, I impact my other lanes and help them through ults and the occaisonal roaming, I shove hard and either prevent roaming, reveal their jungler when he comes to my lane to clean up waves, or take turret. I steal camps from their jungle, I sometimes even solo dragon. In all 5 games my net contribution to the team was positive. I didn't feed, I won lane and did';t die to ganks/ drew jungler pressure to my lane away from my teamates, I helped my team a moderate amount mid game, and i was a huge threat late game with alot of damage and often managed to kill their adc and chunk their whole team. I did stuff that was beneficial and I didn't fuck up badly ever. My total net contribution to the team was always positive, and I'm sitting here looking at a **20%** winrate. That tells me this game is literally just luck. Something is very very very very broken. Either some roles/champions have WAYYYYYYYYYYY more impact than others, or the matchmaking system is COMPLETELY FUCKED. I still enjoy the gameplay of league, I enjoy laning, I enjoy the decision making and everything about playing the game, but I'm done playing the slot machine. It's literally gambling, and now I have kids like you telling me I'm wrong, that a 8/4/7 kda is somehow not a good kda, when I know every fucking one of you would give your left nut for a teamate who just didn't feed 0/5 and start trolling, 4/5/4 teamate? I'd take that in a fucking heartbeat and so would you. And yet here I am getting told by you that 8/4/7 is "meh".
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
Rioter Comments
: I'm not sure what you mean by "dynamic mmr" when you're also advocating the Elo system, since they're essentially the same under the hood. Meddler confirmed that they're only looking at your current MMR when matchmaking and not doing any conspiracy 'forced 50%' thing based on win streaks or whatever, so someone who goes on a stomping spree would need to get stomped just as many times to end up facing the same people they originally were. Also, it's not a set number of wins to rank up, since LP gains/losses depend on your mmr relative to your rank (and exceptionally high mmrs even skip promo series and/or divisions entirely). As you say, MMR changes faster than rank, which is why you'd face more smurfs in a rank based matching instead of skill based matching. I personally have a bronze account I keep bronze through a lot of dodges so I can semi-honestly tell people I'm bronze, although it gets matched with golds mostly currently (and meanwhile I'm diamond on this account). Theres bound to be an abundance of other smurfs out there with relatively low ranked accounts they use for duoing and so forth, that people mostly don't bother using actively since they don't want to inflate their mmr too much. If the system changed to a rank based matching instead of skill based, a lot of high ranked people would probably make accounts for the lulz too, since now they can basically indefinitely stomp noobs while doing stuff like AD ryze or other silliness, or simply go for the montage pentas in bronze using more conventional picks.
: Matching by rank instead of mmr is a a good way to make you face a lot more smurfs rather than less.
I would sincerely doubt that there are more diamond level players in gold smurfing than there are in diamond level players in "diamond level mmr", which includes other gold rank players... As far as i can tell the only thing this dynamic mmr garbage does is make it harder for smurfs to rank up because after stomping noobs for a couple games they are now facing people their skill level but you need a set number of wins to get to a higher rank, unlike MMR which can jump quickly from winstreaks. So it just keeps smurfs at low rank and if they ever lose a couple games and drop their hightened dynamic mmr they are back to crushing noobs again... My point is it should just be like they have in any other competitive game. Like chess Elo.
Rioter Comments
: Zoe is a champion that rewards bad gameplay.
http://na.op.gg/statistics/champion/ going off of ban rates... zoe is banned in 69.92% of games. There are ten players in each game, all with bans, so you can infer that at least 6.992% of the playerbase doesn't want zoe in their games... This does not take into account multiple people in the same game wanting to ban zoe... So a more realistic inference from this data is that 100-69.92 = 30.08% NON-banrate per game, divide by ten players each game, 3.008% of players are OK with having zoe in their game...
Rioter Comments
: Remove Grievous Wounds From Morellonomicon and Make A New AP Item With It
: Riot just wanted to finally kill off Spell Vamp from the game, and the last source of it was Moragan passive They got rid of it, and now have to nerf her accordingly
: Every few months Riot overbuffs an otherwise balanced champion just because nobody plays them.
It's because they buffed karthus a small amount and morgana hard counters karthus. Don't kid yourselves.
: Her win rate across all elos is pretty garbage AFAIK
because she's new and she is difficult to play. I could make a champ thats insanely hard to play but her winrate is balanced by making her insanely strong. Thats not good for game health. Because when you end up facing a player who has mastered that champion, you have no options: the "skill" balancing is gone because the player has mastered her. Now it's just an unfairly strong champion. This is the case with zoe. She as a low winrate because most people who play her aren;t good with her, since shes new and difficult to play. But if you have ever played vs a good zoe player who gets ahead early. It's not fair. She stuns you for 2 seconds+ through walls jumps in from off your screen with a 1000 unit per second skillshot that nukes you for 80% of your hp, she has insnae mobility with flash pick ups and heal, she gets active item effects, ETC. She might be hard to play. but once you account for a player being good enough to play her well, it's not fair. Compare zoe to Sona or Nunu. If somebody is a god at sona or nunu, or even vayne you have clear ways to play around it, I don't feel like im vs a brick wall of escapes and range and cc and nukes. When Im vs an extremely talented Zoe, I might as well just FF unless my team has instant access hard cc or a very strong shielder/healer. I understand shes an ap assassin, slippery, nuke potentia, ok finel. But compare to any other ap assassin there is ways for even a Karthus to play around other AP assassins kit. Not with zoe. She stuns you for 2 seconds and nukes you from off screen (coming into range for like half a second) hence 68% banrate *
: No.
No yo udont wanta 6th ban or no she doesnt have a 68% banrate?
Rioter Comments
: The biggest problem is match making. "Oh, youre a mid silver players who won 5 games in a row? You must now be at a mid gold level and can clearly carry low silver players against 4 gold players (but you're still not good enough to have the gold rank yourself)"
: Things that doesnt work about ranked
I'm always and always have been in favor of a straight ELO type ranking, you just have a rating not a "rank", and matchmaking just pairs you with the closest possible match to your rating, non of this dynamic range bullshit based off of winstreaks and shit. Maybe if you want you can classify players based on their rating, just like chess, so if you are above 2200, or if you are in between 1800 and 2199 you get a title like "master" or "diamond". Dynamic matchmaking and promos are fucking garbage and i hate it. As far as i know, everybody fucking hates it. Most people just go to op.gg and check their MMR. People constantly joke and talk shit about what rank you are (ohh d5 hardstuck), because they know ranks don;t actually matter, MMR does. As somebody who plays chess, just having a rating, and not some bulllshit rank, or dynamic MMR based off of wintreaks, FEELS so much better and pushes me to improve a lot more.
: That's just not true. Sure you won't be able to kill them, but you should be able to keep up in cs. However if you don't respect their lead and you continue to try to trade with them, of course they'll continue to press their lead to create bigger ones and beat you bad.
Keystones essentially give you free flat damage on trades. (PTA, Electro, Comet and Aery) has changed the game so that whoever is winning trades, wins them much more. The removal of bonus resistances from runes and buffs to flat hp regen (not %hp regen) that were available in the old resolve mastery tree also makes health potions less efficient. Which makes farming under harass much much harsher.
deathgod5 (EUW)
: This what I want you to do. Go to support.riotgames.com and log in on your account Go to Submit a request Select I have a question about a suspension or restriction on my account Ask why your account was banned there: it could be for the following reasons. 1. A suspicious activety on your account 2. A chargeback issue 3. A 3rd party ban(we can't help you with this) 4. A extreme case of direct perma ban. We don't have the information here to help you, but at support they still might. If you don't recieve a response on the ticket within a few days don't start spamming them it moves your ticket back. I hope this helps getting your account back, and if it doesn't I am sorry I couldn't help you further. Deathgod5
Also, you can attack the replay of the game, I know RIot usually ignores context, but you can try. Save the replay from match hsitory and then upload it on the support ticket page.
Purejoyce (EUNE)
: It shouldn't, so how's that a problem? :D Also sivir has currently higher pick rate than she had in 7.20. In this case the problem probably isn't with the runes, but with overnerfing the champion itself some time ago. You can't just pick random statistic out of context and try to claim it proves your point, when it doesn't. {{sticker:zombie-brand-facepalm}}
: I think their health is fine, but their damage is so low people don't get punished enough for extended dives
I think it's actually their range. Playing as a melee top laner vs an oppressive ranged champ like vayne or teemo who won an early trade, she can just poke you under tower so easily. On the other hand, tanky champs can buy ninja tabi and sit under turret for days.
Purejoyce (EUNE)
: >It's just a "win more" keystone, just like most of them. No, they are not. Even aery isn't a "win more" keystone. Are you, by any chance, some kind of hearthstone player? Because I have a feeling you keep using "win more" and -more blatantly- "power creep" while not knowing what they really mean. If not hearthstone, then what is it? Because you must be borrowing these terms from somewhere :D
: Why would Sivir W count as as auto attack beyond the one to activate it?
It shouldn't, but it also doesn't count as a spell hit. And I'm not saying it should do that either, but in terms being able to proc any of the keystones, sivir's kind of left in the dust, compared to MF, or Ezreal, or Jhinn, Or Vayne. Hence she has a 2% pickrate right now. Because keystones are absurdly strong, and none of them really give her anything. So my point is they should add more options, or don't make it so keystones are such a huge factor in terms of how strong a champion is. Otherwise half the champions are gonna be left in the dust. It's not JUST sivir who is struggling to make good use of the current keystones.
Purejoyce (EUNE)
: How does aery "open up a new play path for garen"? In what way it changes garen's playstyle and how is it new? You can't just throw around random statements that "sound good" but make no sense. Anyways, the nerf was justified.
It doesn't. You still play garen exactly the same way with aery as without. It's just a "win more" keystone, just like most of them. Predator opens up new play styles for champions like garen, but unfortunately they are just not worth taking unless you have no chance of winning lane anyway, because grasp and aery are just so much better in making you "win more", and the impact of crushing your lane vs just winning your lane is so much more important.
: > [{quoted}](name=Faceroll Tactics,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=yOrOrtwQ,comment-id=0002000100010000,timestamp=2017-11-21T02:23:18.969+0000) > > Tanks are only strong because they can survive 2 shots from a twitch, they ruined Galio and nerfed Sej, what tanks are you struggling with? Lmfao, try playing Ashe or Caitlyn into tanks. I can pin every single loss due to team comp if the enemy has 2-3 tanks and divers because they're basically immortal unless they're stupid.
> Lmfao, try playing Ashe or Caitlyn. ftfy http://champion.gg/statistics/#?roleSort=ADC&sortBy=general.winPercent&order=descend
Kloqdq (NA)
: Being at 30% pick rate while 55% winrate is actually cancer though. If this was any other class I bet my life's savings it would be hotfixed.
I wouldn't bet against you. Can imagine that kind of statistic on a juggernaut like Shyvana? They'd prob just disable the champion, or shut down the servers. Or dissolve the company.
Meep Man (NA)
: I disagree, a lot of the complains here are from people who lost a match against someone and decided that the person who carried was playing an OP champion. That's why the people who get complained about the most often aren't the ones with an actual good win rate, but those with high play rates (ex. Lee Sin, Yasuo, Zed, Vayne, Caitlyn, etc...).
1) a low winrate doesn't preclude something from being unhealthy for the game, statistics themselves don't indicate game health. That only comes from player experience, maybe a champion is popular, that's not a bad thing, neither is a champion being unpopular, as long as both options _feel_ viable. Statistics are just a way of easily identifying ~~giant gaping obvious~~ flaws in a system, like when a champion that gets picked or banned more than 25% of the time when players have over 15 legitimate choices for that respective role, while another adc is picked less than 3% of the time, then maybe you should then look into it and see if there is actually a problem. (There is, press the attack is literally perfect for vayne, while sivir does not have a strong choice in keystone, so either keystones need to be nerfed, or more options need to be added) 2) Not everybody is a theory crafter or looks up statistics, most people who voice complaints do so because of first hand experience, hence coming here after losing to something that many other people have been experiencing. They don't post because they were randomly thinking about the game while feeding the dog and realized that press the attack is too strong on vayne and ran up to their computers to make a post...
Sinlaire (NA)
: mt brother tried Klepto on buscuits on Illaoi for a sustain lane. said he wrecked a game with it. Just stole gold and pots and sustained all lane phase. then he got the red pot right as he hit 6, popped it, dove tower with ult and walked away with a free kill. Said it practically felt broken. Considering he's an Illaoi main and watching him try and fail with the new phase rush only to feel stronger with a klepto build, even i feel a little sad about that.
Yep, I tried klepto illaoi too, it worked great, won lane easily despite feeding 4 kills early, checked replay, i had more gold than my lane opponent who killed me 3 times pre-6 by the time i reached level 8. It was just like playing vanilla illaoi but I got more gold income. Great game design, very interactive. 10/10 Never doing it again, it literally felt like I was cheating.
: When you beware ping botlane 18x and they still both die to the warded midlane roam...
That's why they are trying so hard to re balance the game around teamwork. So that no matter how well you do and how far ahead you get, you have to rely on people like that to work with you to win. G A M E D E S I G N.
: Gameplay doesn't realize how much Riot spoils them.
Well I can;t disagree that Riot does a lot to listen to their fan base, but your examples of what people in gameplay complain about are pretty poor. A lot of the complaints here are legitimate, and they are often ignored. The game has slowly but consistently been moving in a direction that people here have warned against. Riot consistently seem to miss obvious things. Powercreep of the game, (they just buffed minions straight up, in exchange for flat 300 hp on turrets, after adding a shitload of damage to the game and demolish) Not to mention giving champions powerful effects right out of the gate (keystones) that were once reserved to items that took time to buy. Keystones being literally perfectly tailored to specific playstyles/champions and leaving some champions in the dirt without a real option (klepto GP or press the attack Vayne Vs Guardian(?), Aery(?) Unsealed spellbook(?) Predator(?) on Nunu. Adding timer indicators for things like manaflow band or scorch, etc. (after 7 years how is this not run of the mill? Did they just hire new game developers yesterday?)
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