: ;n; / / {{item:2004}} Good bye mana potion my old friend. I always liked you more than your red friend
Hello Grey Screen, my old friend I've come to type to you again, Because of the zed softly creeping Who without mana left Swain weeping And the vision that was planted in my brain ...Still remains Of no mana, thanks Riot
: Performance Issues on the updated Summoner's Rift
A support ticket directed me here with the instructions to attach my dxdiag log. The description of my problem(s): FPS drops *and* GIANT RECTANGLES around objects that obscure the screen instead of highlighting the models.
: ranked 3's and 5's team queues STILL disabled with no explanation or eta? pls rito.
I'm with you all. Such lack of communication is a disgrace.
: There needs to be more counter play made available to afk jungle farming in general, particularly for the lanes. The junglers have received a whole slew of new items and as such possibilities to situationally make plays it is like the lanes are just experience delivery systems now to feed the toher 4 members of the team until mid/late game. Ideally more item choice for lanes that would either support roaming or hard pushing such that counter jungling can be a team wide effort, and not a high risk endeavour undertaken by your own jungler with the threat of the enemy team collapsing on you. Opposing this pushing items to take advantage of when the jungler does show himself in a lane other than your own, and perhaps one of the other lanes has roamed as well (the infamous four man gank down bot) no matter what the match up is you at least have the options to punish on the other side of the map.
I must admit I'm not too familiar with the effects of the new elixirs but if they don't already they could easily add new ones to provide effects that serve the strategies listed above.
: >"He's naturally more bulky than other casters and assassins" Thats the only untrue statement here. He doesn't have anything just makes him take last damage and if you SOMEHOW CC him, he IS burstable (think annie) its important that when you make threads that are really important to be really truthful
> >"He's naturally more bulky than other casters and assassins" > > Thats the only untrue statement here. He doesn't have anything just makes him take last damage and if you SOMEHOW CC him, he IS burstable (think annie) its important that when you make threads that are really important to be really truthful The OP was referring to Fizz's base stats. Although most of his base stats are pretty middle of the range, Fizz has both the equal highest base MR in the game and the equal highest MR scaling in the game as well - and the pseudo tankiness that invulnerability gives you, which makes him very strong against AP laners. All the survivability that free MR provides especially is counter intuitive to his supposedly weak early laning phase where an AP laner is not necessarily rewarded for zoning and bullying him well as he can sustain through a surprising amount of it (that flask and pots start)! *Note: Fizz also has the longest melee attack range (175), which, trident or not, is definitely counter intuitive for such a tiny character - and unnecessarily forgiving when he has so much mobility loaded into his kit. Comparatively Yi, Akali, Riven, Katarina, Zed and Talon only have 125 attack range, and Diana, Kassadin and Pantheon have only 150 (all the melee assassins that come to mind). Yasuo is the only other non-bruiser melee to have 175 attack range, but he is another matter entirely and I don't quite count him as an assassin (and post nerfs has 40 less lvl 1 base hp than fizz). IMO Fizz doesn't need much in the way of changes - flat CD on his E at all levels (slightly lower than it is at lvl 1 currently but higher late game), and lower attack range (either 150 or 125) or the standard 30 starting MR.
Sira Ren (NA)
: I agree with you completely. I guess what I was really after was Yi's Q. Because of it, he gains invulnerability and facing him a multitude of times as Kat, Janna, and Evelynn, I've noticed that I can't pick him off. I was a fed Kat one game but I could never kill a full health Yi with his Highlander on. I try to Shunpo on him but can't target since he Q's me. Then, I have to ward jump outwards because of his attack speed. As Janna, I tried to slow him and tornado him but it seemed that he completely avoided my tornado (maybe my bad aim) and he cancelled my slow with his Highlander. Admittedly, Kat and Janna aren't Yi's counter and obviously sparsely have any CC (only Janna's slow and tornado), Yi was simply invulnerable due to his Q. It frustrated me quite a lot so I gave up chasing after Yi and picked him off when he was low health. I agree with you on AFK farm Jungle Yi as well but many junglers do that so it's not player's fault. I guess it's best to pick him off early. Sigh maybe I should learn to play new champions.
There needs to be more counter play made available to afk jungle farming in general, particularly for the lanes. The junglers have received a whole slew of new items and as such possibilities to situationally make plays it is like the lanes are just experience delivery systems now to feed the toher 4 members of the team until mid/late game. Ideally more item choice for lanes that would either support roaming or hard pushing such that counter jungling can be a team wide effort, and not a high risk endeavour undertaken by your own jungler with the threat of the enemy team collapsing on you. Opposing this pushing items to take advantage of when the jungler does show himself in a lane other than your own, and perhaps one of the other lanes has roamed as well (the infamous four man gank down bot) no matter what the match up is you at least have the options to punish on the other side of the map.
: Performance Issues on the updated Summoner's Rift
I am also still having major FPS issues, FPS drops from 80 down to 10 whenever lots of spells abilities and what not are being used. Along with occasional but still prevailing problems with the object mouse-over highlighting which still turns half my screen into either a giant red rectangle or a giant blue one. Attached is my most recent r3dlog - a 7mb file! filled predominantly with the following error: > "DATA/Characters/SRU_Dragon/Spells/DragonBasicAttackBurn.lua" because it's not in the manifest. 000021.758| 0.0000kb| 0.0000kb added| ERROR| RadsOpenFile: RADS cannot open file Just with different "xxxxx.lua" files not being in "the manifest" **EDIT:** my r3dlog.txt was too large to upload, I have attached it to a support ticket instead, hopefully it gets to the right people.
Sira Ren (NA)
: Am I wrong to ask for a Yi nerf?
The point I was making is that he can get a reset on his Q without having to get a kill at all. So even when exhausted the mechanic on it allows him to circumvent exhaust's strong effect at denying him resets from kills/assists. I agree with you on meditate - it is rarely used for over a second, because it does make you incredibly susceptible to cc - and it's effect at resetting your auto attack is so damn useful too. I was drawing the comparison between it and Exhaust but generally a brief meditate followed by alpha strike very quickly accounts for exhaust. Hard CC is the real bane of master yi and a lot of champs are packed with it in a team comp. but as you said how if anything it would be yi's alpha strike that should be nerfed it is with this ability that his unbalance comes. It is a blink that can dodge just about anything (except dots Yi's already afflicted with) but it's up so often you can use it do dodge almost any ability if you time it well. Alpha strike timings are what separate the great yi's from exhaust fodder, but if you are capable of using them well, you can follow people over walls using dashes and blinks of their own, and there is almost no counter-play to it. I generally don't mind Yi because you can abuse his early weaknesses, but AFK farm jungle Yi who comes at level 6 with attack speed built has very little counter-play and a lot of tools to carry hard. I'm not out right demanding he be nerfed because he's OP, but I do think he has a little bit too much utility with constant alpha strikes and that this ability needs some down tweaks. This will depend further on the new itemization that season 5 brings as Yi is incredibly item dependent. changes to jungle and crit item builds will shift his power around a lot, along with the gold efficiency of the items in the game which will effect when his power spikes occur. Additionally removing the slow from red buff entirely would remove some of the free CC utility junglers (and later game: adcs) get for free when their kits deliberately don't have it. I may have strayed across a couple of different topics. Sorry for that LOL! If you can be bothered reading, I'm curious to know your thoughts?
: Not really, pretty much all assassin's fall off late game. Most squishes can survive, albeit barely, or escape at this point, and they'll usually have their team around to cover for them. Especially for Fizz who has to go in and stay all in to do his damage, late game is a pain for him.
His sustained damage is really strong for an assassin and he isn't ult reliant like zed and talon late game. With all his mobility he actually is one of the strongest scaling assassins - sure late game everyone gets shat on by adc dps, but fizz has probably the singularly best late game utility of any assassin and his mid game is so super strong (as Cindikle said; if you're good at him) that generally no one reaches late game against him. Especially with the current state of the new dragon buff and baron buff - it is incredibly easy for fizz with one dragon stack (the damage increase) to be insanely hard to deal with and thus he can make use of his super good kit at fighting around the baron pit (or simply securing the buff mid game) to prevent teams from stalling out against him. His only real weakness is his squishyness lvls 1-5 but if he pulls off one good e, dodges your damage in lane and wins a trade hard, he will have kill pressure on you for the rest of the lane. And he can all in like a god. Specifically Zeus as he was to mortal women.
: > Well yesterday I was playing on the new map after reading on this thread that a hotfix had been released. Fortunantely, the fix seemed to have stopped my laptop from getting any fps drops even during the most visual teamfights. However, today I once again experienced huge fps drops during teamfights for unknown reasons. Could it be champion related? To specify I had the following champions on my team: Nami, Jinx, Aatrox, Morgana, Lee Sin, Nocturne, Darius, Graves, Blitzcrank and Viktor. > > To further clarify: I could run the old Summoner's Rift on the highest settings and on 1080p without any problems. I'm starting to wonder if this is the case as well. Got a few reports about specific Champions here: Riven, Thresh, Warwick. Unfortunately, the Champions you've listed are none of these, but it's helpful to see someone who has experienced this and has not depending on the game. If you run into more drops for specific Champions, that will be helpful. Our current thought is to dig into things that would be Champion-specific and see if we can continue to optimize here (ex. VFX, sound.) We'll update via usual channels like this thread if we find something more here.
I've been noticing the hitching in games with Graves, Warwick and Thresh for sure.
Takran (NA)
: > TBH I really don't like how the Shadow Isle just took over the Blood Moon Skins. > > > Before it seemed like an Ionian thing but now its just out of a wack. > > Its like Orcs from Mordor going out on a play date with Hobbits. I feel it fits, since the whole blood moon thing represents the Oni (demon) characters in oriental theater. Having the demonic shadow isles and the oriental Ionia meet seems like a match made in heaven to me. Ninjas who play in the theater intermingled with actual demons? So amazing! I am toying with the idea of Blood Moon Nocturne - imagine him in a blood moon mask...It would be amazing!
I'd also add Yi as a potential for the final Blood Moon in the jungle role - although he's already got a good bunch of skins, he hasn't really got a high quality classy one, outside of headhunter IMO. Also mixing his eye lenses thing with a demon mask? Could be pretty bad ass! XD But also Lee Sin, Wukong, Udyr are ionian enough to fit the bill in the jungle role. On the demon side as you said, Nocturne shows a lot of promise, Elise could, but it would resemble her classic skin too much with the colours unless they drastically alter the model, also Maokai (tree demon), Evelyn and Hecarim could all be notable additions for the final skin. Or perhaps even some champion they haven't released yet!
: Exhaust decreases all damage done by 40% for 2.5 seconds. That can absolutely fuck reset-dependent Yi.
Except of course that he reduces his alpha strike CD by 1 second on auto attacks (also his passive counts as 2 auto attacks every fourth attack for the purpose of this) - independent of getting a kill or assist and the 70% CD reduction on all abilities for that! Additionally Yi can cast summoner spells like smite and ignite while untargetable during alpha strike. Additionally, if Yi feels really endangered by exhaust he can simply meditate which will reduce the damage he takes by 50% - scaling to 70% - which is effectively putting an exhaust on anyone who tries to attack him - in a 1v1 or with his team he can easily outlast an exhaust. And he heals. And you can instantly activate meditate for an auto attack reset. In my opinion, if you're going to nerf Yi anywhere it would be around one (or more) of his alpha strike mechanics.
Takran (NA)
: This! Or Perhaps Masquerade Elise. Compare her model to Eve - it would fit the theme well. Frilly masks, skimpy pink/purple/blue attire, and shadow isles friends: http://i.imgur.com/rtyCBiG.jpg EDIT: also, when working on the photoshopped colors, there were few surfaces I could turn white without it looking weird. I agree on too much red.
Yeah, but I see where you were going with your photoshop edits, and we all appreciate your efforts for providing a comparison. The simplest solution - renaming the skin so it fits with either the Marquis (Marquise - in Elise's case as she's female) or Masquerade line of skins - is the best one. Hopefully Riot shows some thematic sense and does this. As for an alternative to round out the Blood Moon team in the jungle position - perhaps Blood Moon Vi, Xin Zhao, or Sejuani...
I7A6X2v2 (NA)
: {{champion:69}} is balanced and perfect right now. Use your time on a rework for {{champion:19}} , he need one since years now, riot please :/ .
> {{champion:69}} is balanced and perfect right now. Use your time on a rework for {{champion:19}} , he need one since years now, riot please :/ . Warwick is actually in a really good place right now. If anything he needs a nerf as of patch 4.20 because he is literally the god tier of the jungle with his sustain. Entire teams struggle to take the new dragon early; Warwick can solo it at level 5.
: > first off, a few things I forgot that that reminded me of. meant to put a poll in there. anyways, I do agree that her actual dps on her q could use a buff, but aside from that I think she's fine. and thank you for using actual points instead of like many people have been doing and just throwing a hissy fit. I respect your opinion, but I still very much think shes a strong champion still, just a little bit rough around the edges. > > edit: wtf, can you not edit in a poll? that's stupid :( > > edit 2: ok, im gonna find the guy who downvoted this comment for whatever reason and slap him Ur second edit urged me to downvote u. Edit: To bring up an actual point to the table, not sure why nobody mentioned this yet. What they did to her overall was lower her ap ratio's immensly (just look at those patch notes) and give her a lot of extra ap from her passive. You would think this does nothing, but what it does it allow her to have the power level of old cassio, but in the early game before she has stacks, she is far from the power level of old cassio. The fact that her early game is put on a cap is a hard nerf to her in general, and an unnoticable buff to her lategame as it is so small. You would think that this wasn't so bad, and they could buff her for this, but they made it so the stacks she would gain would be through poisoning the enemy, and csing a poisoned minion. This creates a 'minigame' for cass which makes the player more focused on poisoning the enemy and getting poisoning and csing minion than focusing on the many parts of this game that make the early game quite complex. The cass will not even care if the enemy is csing or securing the dragon with her team if she has to focus on this, and even when she doesn't need to focus on the minigame, her earlygame is so lacking that it doesn't matter, as she cannot help much with securing dragon or roaming for kills.
Perhaps because I *did* mention it... > "Her wonderful max stack bonus does make her late game strong if she lands a good ultimate, but **all of her AP ratios are lower early game to compensate** for this. Thus it is incredibly easy to irreversibly snowball against her while she's waiting for stacks to be impactful." Quoting from my (the first) response, LOL. I do agree with the point though, as you can see! =D
: Now's she too red. I agree she should be more red, but not like that, she's pretty much all her gracefulness that the skin is supposed to have. Honestly, I wish they would just rename the skin. It fits the theme, but I think it could still be something else.
> Now's she too red. I agree she should be more red, but not like that, she's pretty much all her gracefulness that the skin is supposed to have. Honestly, I wish they would just rename the skin. It fits the theme, but I think it could still be something else. ^ Marquis Elise. There - simple, easy and ties it in to another skin which Elise's present 'Bloodmoon' actually matches nicely:
Junkο (EUNE)
: Damage has nothing to do with designers. The balance team decides the numbers not the designer (for example 20% max hp dmg on Kalista W was chosen by the balance team, the infinite dashes was by CertainlyT)
> Damage has nothing to do with designers. > > The balance team decides the numbers not the designer (for example 20% max hp dmg on Kalista W was chosen by the balance team, the infinite dashes was by CertainlyT) Values is decided by the balance team yes, but it is the designers who choose the abilities - in Darius' case that he would have a true damage ability that would serve as an execute (Darius is the Executioner of Noxus) and it was the designers who gave Zyra a huge AOE ability which gives the potential for dealing large damage overall - as in the total number of targets it can hit and the ease with which it can do so.
: > Cass would end up with some mobile and slowing poison bubble of death, while Olaf would walk away with a free teleport to his Axe when he throws it. > > I'm not sure if I'd be excited or scared of that. Darius and Zyra are relatively immobile. So is Thresh.
> > Cass would end up with some mobile and slowing poison bubble of death, while Olaf would walk away with a free teleport to his Axe when he throws it. > > > > I'm not sure if I'd be excited or scared of that. > > Darius and Zyra are relatively immobile. So is Thresh. Both have/had insane amounts of damage (and in Zyra's case: CC) and position altering abilities to compensate. Also note that Zyra was co designed and so we don't know exactly how much of Zyra's kit that was released is as CertainlyT would have imagined. Darius also does have a mobility tool in an increasing MS buff with bleed stacks, which is the weakest mobility tool CertainlyT has ever designed. He's only gone up from there.
: I keep having a visual bug where the highlights that surround target objects become bloody huge rectangles. It makes the game quite unplayable. Needless to say the hot-fix has done nothing to resolve this problem. I have tried playing on the lowest possible settings the game will allow and still no improvement. I would send you all the logs I have in hopes of expediently solving the issue, if I could, but for some reason these board won't let me attach more than one file at a time. I shall not be playing League until this is resolved. Pretty poor all round, Riot and I'm usually a big proponent of yours.
> I keep having a visual bug where the highlights that surround target objects become bloody huge rectangles. It makes the game quite unplayable. Needless to say the hot-fix has done nothing to resolve this problem. I have tried playing on the lowest possible settings the game will allow and still no improvement. > > I would send you all the logs I have in hopes of expediently solving the issue, if I could, but for some reason these board won't let me attach more than one file at a time. I shall not be playing League until this is resolved. Pretty poor all round, Riot and I'm usually a big proponent of yours. DxDiag attached.
: Performance Issues on the updated Summoner's Rift
I keep having a visual bug where the highlights that surround target objects become bloody huge rectangles. It makes the game quite unplayable. Needless to say the hot-fix has done nothing to resolve this problem. I have tried playing on the lowest possible settings the game will allow and still no improvement. I would send you all the logs I have in hopes of expediently solving the issue, if I could, but for some reason these board won't let me attach more than one file at a time. I shall not be playing League until this is resolved. Pretty poor all round, Riot and I'm usually a big proponent of yours.
: > I know its happening for some and not for others. I just hope they work this out soon because this is very annoying. If this is because of the new Summoners Rift then I want the old one back to play ranked games in. > > Also I don't know if this has anything to do with our location but I am from New York USA. I am from Melbourne, Australia - and I don't think it is because of the new Summoners Rift because I played many games on the beta prior to patch 4.20 without this bug. Post 4.20 it occurs in every game. So it is definitely a 4.20 specific bug.
More screens: Diana is permanently outlined by a red rectangle for me here, even when mousing over a minion.
: > Where u all from? Cause it sounds like rito is trying to kick some of us to lan server :( sad day. I know its happening for some and not for others. I just hope they work this out soon because this is very annoying. If this is because of the new Summoners Rift then I want the old one back to play ranked games in. Also I don't know if this has anything to do with our location but I am from New York USA.
> I know its happening for some and not for others. I just hope they work this out soon because this is very annoying. If this is because of the new Summoners Rift then I want the old one back to play ranked games in. > > Also I don't know if this has anything to do with our location but I am from New York USA. I am from Melbourne, Australia - and I don't think it is because of the new Summoners Rift because I played many games on the beta prior to patch 4.20 without this bug. Post 4.20 it occurs in every game. So it is definitely a 4.20 specific bug.
: Patch Rundown: Preseason 2015
Fix the mouse over objects and get giant team coloured pixel bug please!! I like the changes in general, but I haven't been able to finely test them very much due to the poor execution of this batch and it's near game breaking bugs.
: turret and monster visual bug?
Same problem here as well. What a sloppy patch.
RealShady (EUNE)
: seems like lol dieded never play on patch day again. EVER!
Pretty much. Kinda sloppy that such HUGE bug was released onto live at all. Hopefully it will be fixed within the week.
: SAME! IT IS SO ANNOYING
Also happened to a friend of mine when we both logged on to try the patch out. So it is certainly not an isolated issue.
Rioter Comments
: > thats a bit racist. Tbh, I wanted to say Chinese (who I actually am), but you never see their habits as stylish as other American does. And yes, I <3 The SImpsons.
LOL 5 minutes spent on that response? You give me too much credit. I spent 2 minutes tops, including the time I read the title of your post thinking it was someone new to playing Jinx seeking help. I am not English, I am Australian. I can swear and bang my hands on a keyboard all I like but I find it solves none of my problems so forgive me for not resorting to your dumbass level, cruel world or no. Racist indeed. (41 seconds)
I7A6X2v2 (NA)
: ***
It is neither a buff or a nerf specifically - but a change. She went from being early game bully with lots of poison damage and zone control to a late game hyper carry with a machine gun E and none of the former.
Rioter Comments
kanacho (NA)
: The incentive to dodge her poison is to avoid her Machine Gun E... If you dodge it, then her DPS is non-existent being unable to reset her E to that fraction of a second. Her power comes from good synergy with her abilities. Q gives a speed boost W gives a slow E is her damage. Q and W provide the ability to reset E thus requiring you to actually land at last half of your abilities to do any damage. Cassi has more AOE CC than Ryze (A lot more as Ryze without a rylai's or something), which is the trade-off here. Ryze has tons of complaints for being so durable yet being able to blow up for huge damage ontop of all the stats he naturally get for itemizing for mana. He's not fun to play against for that reason, but still beatable. Cassi is a high skill control mid-laner who has an extremely powerful team-fight ultimate once one of the teams engage, and her W provides and AOE slow, while her Q provides her additional mobility and a more targeted poison for who she wants to attack with her E. You will generally want to throw your W into the middle of the team, and ultimate when you get a good shot at it, and Q the target you want to focus and follow up with E's to finish them off given you have the ability to. She does really high damage still, which is sustained damage that is spread, which is still like it was before with her DoT spam which was sustained over time damage too.
I don't dispute that at all. However it is my experience in playing against the new Cassiopeia that you can bait her with almost any champion that has CC by letting her hit a Q so that she comes in to trade with e, when she does you CC her, drop your combo then back away. She will have at most got two E's off, which with her miserly Q damage is not near enough to win the trade. If she doesn't take the bait and try to trade with you then her Q is on CD, the poison wears off, and you have a 4 second window in which to bully her where she literally has no DPS to trade with you until Q is back up. You can then repeat this pattern of play to zone and bully her more and more, and she cannot do anything about it. Once you get boots 1 dodging the Q is simple, the only time you should get hit by her after the first back is when you;re baiting her. Miasma's slow cast animation makes it painfully easy dodge as well, and it really is only an effective zoning (or farming) tool, but when she cannot trade with you there's nowhere she can really zone you, because you're never threatened by her in lane. The pit falls I find most people get themselves into with Cassiopeia is they giver her present iteration *too much* respect and allow her to get stacks and farm without bullying her exceptionally weak early game. That is when her single target E DPS scales really well and she gets a strong late game... Assuming the rest of her team hasn't fed XD.
: first off, a few things I forgot that that reminded me of. meant to put a poll in there. anyways, I do agree that her actual dps on her q could use a buff, but aside from that I think she's fine. and thank you for using actual points instead of like many people have been doing and just throwing a hissy fit. I respect your opinion, but I still very much think shes a strong champion still, just a little bit rough around the edges. edit: wtf, can you not edit in a poll? that's stupid :( edit 2: ok, im gonna find the guy who downvoted this comment for whatever reason and slap him
Yeah the no adding polls thing is silly as all hell. And I respect yours. If you've found a strong way to play Cassiopeia I'm going to be hoping never to come across you on the opposite team! :P
: "I'm sorry, I'm new to Jinx, so please no hate"
* Can you vent your frustration to someone who cares instead of flooding the forums? * Can you stop acting superior in what was (presumably) a normal's game with no consequences (besides a 'loss')? * Talk politely like a respectful human being? * If I have a specific situation where you made a mistake, did I need to go and make a crass public spectacle of it on the forums?
: Well...........I didn't read it all, but, I'm just wondering how you got past the oh so frustrating auto bots that every meets when they open a ticket.
To be honest I have no idea how I did that either, but my very first response in the conversation I started with this ticket (which is considerably longer still than what I posted here) was from a real person - Riot Zoolander AKA BlueSteel. I guess he was interested in my initial comments on the sate of Swain, Yorick and Mordekaiser - he professed to being a Swain main himself. So I guess it's just about having a ticket or request that interests them? I'm not sure really - and it was one of the things that was eventually discussed - greater transparency and dialogue in Riot communications with the player base. I'm hoping to get some more notice for it by opening the discussion up to the wider community. If anyone has any relevant replies as well they want to be addressed by one of the quoted or mentioned Support Staff, I can add them in my responses to my ticket.
: I'm sick of everyone complaining about how much Cassiopeia sucks
Not going to down vote you for a rant that is just crying out to be martyred by that kind of attention. Instead I'm going to offer you my own (rational, I like to think) opinion on the subject. First and foremost, I've been playing league since preseason 2. I never played Cassiopeia then, and apart from trying her on the PBE when her rework was announced, haven't played her since. I am not going to talk about those games regardless. My perspective is that of a mid lane main who has played hundreds of games *against* Cassiopeia. Prior to the rework, all her damage was focused around poison harass and then shredding people if they made a poor engage or capitalizing on positioning, zoning and her team mates CC, kiting around like a slippery snake. It was honestly tough to play against her at early levels, but the fact that she had exposed weaknesses with her damage being primarily over time and only her ultimate for hard cc. Once you hit level six in most match ups you could play around her long CD's for her ult, while her E was near useless apart from extra damage to enemies you were kiting. Post rework her damage is now focused on her E. It's almost exactly like playing against Ryze, where she has a machine gun spell but only through spamming it does she get much meaningful damage down. Her poison does almost no damage anymore and gives no incentive to dodge it when still without hard cc, she has to all in to make any impact of the damage. On any champion with a snare, knock-back or stun (Swain, Ziggs and Syndra, for example) you can land your higher burst combo on her and back away after you've cc'd her and you inevitably win the trade, because she hasnt had enough time to continuously E you. This style of play works on Ryze because he is naturally durable, has sustain built into his kit with his ult, and even bonus AOE effect added to all his skills for greater team fight effect. Cassiopeia can only hit one target with her E however, and she has no innate sustain. Her wonderful max stack bonus does make her late game strong if she lands a good ultimate, but all of her AP ratios are lower early game to compensate for this. Thus it is incredibly easy to irreversibly snowball against her while she's waiting for stacks to be impactful. On Swain, one of the champions Cassiopeia traditionally used to counter, I haven't lost a game to her post rework because you can bully her around until you hit level 6 first and then safely tower dive her solo with the level mismatch as her damage is so negligible at that point. Her pattern of play revolving around her E is much easier to predict and dictate as a lane opponent when it used to be she who was the beguiling serpent dictating your moves, waiting to spring a trap. These are just my experiences playing *against* her, and while I enjoy having an easy win whenever I see her, I'm sad that there is one less viable champion (albeit a niche pick, pre-rework) in League of Legends.
Rioter Comments
Eawaf (NA)
: If you get rid of the Q then you might as well delete the champ and release another one. The permaslow is what defines this champion and makes her unique. Her entire kit is built around the Q. You can change/tweak other parts but leave the Q alone plz.
The thread is about changing her (god awful) *Passive*... So worry not! We love her Q too.
: Interesting idea about the crit only working on a slowed target. I like it - although it kinda removes the level 1 cheese crit...
Kind of the point, because it scales more relevantly throughout the game, you don;t need to cheese at lvl 1 (although you still could if you started q).
: i agree that they may be too focused on the pro scene, esports and such, but I disagree with your take on the reworks. I do not know too much about Olaf, I didn't play him and still don't, but he seems like he is in a good place, just not in the meta right now. One of my friends mains olaf and is doing well after only playing for a couple months, he's in silver 3. I main xerath. If you wish you can check my profile. I play xerath out the wazoo. I played him before his changes, and his changes, while I was originally opposed to them, are significantly better, and much more fun. With cass, I don't play her on live, but on the pbe, and I find that she works much better and is a lot less clunky and she is more reliable, while still doing her poison mage thing. Skarner works just fine as he is, and he had an insane jump in play rate as soon as they reworked him, I am not sure how you can call that a disaster. About the new champions, you can only really go so far as to make things unique while keeping the game values in check, but I agree, I think they could use a lot more of the player ideas that come out. I think your issue(correct me if I'm wrong) is that they are less unique/different from each other than they were. Yeah, that would happen, but That's because league started out with what, 20 champions? maybe? Each new champion could be almost completely different. I am sorry you don't find league fun anymore, but I think you are among the minority, not the majority as you stated here. Good luck, I hope you can regain your enjoyment in League.
In regards to Skarner it was only a week or two after his rework that they nerfed him and his play rate dropped back down to insignificance accordingly. Olaf gets bullied so incredibly hard it is not funny. and until he gets tanky as all hell (which he won;t while being bullied out of lane) his pretty cool ultimate is next to useless as he dies amongst all the damage and mobility enemy back lines have these days (AKA Lucian, Yasuo, Zed etc.) Casiopeia is broken as hell. Tiered power ups mean she has to be weakened in compensation prior to hitting those iters, and it is so incredibly wasy to destroy her before she ever reaches the 30% bonus AP threshold at 500m stacks (both at present and on the PBE - I have played both and never lost to her since her rework even on champions she is supposed to counter, like Swain). She is now longer a poison focused mage, but rather a weird machine gun dps based mage geared around her E as if she was some weird kind of Ryze counterpart which is not who she is supposed to be in lore or core play style. I give Riot credit for Sion, he is in a better place now. Soraka, I am still undecided on. I used to main the Xerath, and literally all they needed to do was give the old one either his current w or e in place of his old e. I still play xerath because I enjoy that squishy long range artillery type of mage archetype, but god his ult is terrible now, it looks awful and you can hardly use it in a team fight because you screw yourself up with positioning. only having Q and W to fight with limits you to lengthy poke warks trying to land a pick rather than the fun it was to test your strategy and map positioning to its limits with his old W... There's not much more I can say about him really, 'Locus of Power' was the core of his identity and play style to me and losing it has forever ruined him for me.
: I am still angry at the preseason 4 Taric change. I used to build AP Mana Wizard Taric and could delete carries with Flash REW, but now Taric is just a crappy tank and can't even 1v1 a Master Yi with 100 hp. Taric used to be able to build as a melee burst mage with sustained auto attack damage that scaled with max mana, but Riot was like "yo dawg, this nigga needs to be a tank, yo. Shit on those AP ratios and give him armor ratios, bro" And then they released Braum
I agree with you 100%. They either should have left the old Taric alone (he was unique and interesting in his quirky little melee gem mage burstiness) OR if they beleaved he wasn't fitting what they designed the champion to be and felt he had to be reworked... wel Braum is exactly who he could/should have been. If Braum was the Taric 2.0 I would still miss old Taric, but I would at least be happy with a viable and truly "protect thy fabulous team mates" -esque knight.
: > The thing is, having a True Damage execute or having Thresh's grab be just like blitz with a stun at the end are his design. I respect that he's a designer but It FEELS as though his designs give no thought to how it feels to be on the receiving end of his champs. Yasuo's Wind Wall, Darius' everything and Thresh's grabs are completely evident of this. Yeah, but dem LC$BIGPLAY$ doe! Who cares if Thresh has absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever and synergizes with every single ADC? Why does it matter that Anivia's wall can proc Yasuo's ult? It's not like anyone is going to notice how toxi...uhh what I meant to say is it will take time before people figure out how "fun" Kalista's passive is. You'll see how successful these champions are when pro matches come back and they're 100% pick/ban. Nope, their flawed kits aren't being abused at all, they're just really fun right guys?
> Yeah, but dem LC$BIGPLAY$ doe! Who cares if Thresh has absolutely no drawbacks whatsoever and synergizes with every single ADC? Why does it matter that Anivia's wall can proc Yasuo's ult? It's not like anyone is going to notice how toxi...uhh what I meant to say is it will take time before people figure out how "fun" Kalista's passive is. > > You'll see how successful these champions are when pro matches come back and they're 100% pick/ban. Nope, their flawed kits aren't being abused at all, they're just really fun right guys? ^ This.
: Oh they meant lux u sarcastic nitpicker lol
amazing how difficult is to make the connection that "c" is next to the "x" key on a standard US keyboard...
Junkο (EUNE)
: By decent you mean thrash tier. He is like Kalista is going to be now, 100% reliant on team to pick up the right champions otherwise he will have no place in solo queue. Riot should have just removed the fact that Yasuo can ult to half the CC in game and be done with it instead of nerfing everything else.
> By decent you mean thrash tier. He is like Kalista is going to be now, 100% reliant on team to pick up the right champions otherwise he will have no place in solo queue. > > Riot should have just removed the fact that Yasuo can ult to half the CC in game and be done with it instead of nerfing everything else. ^ This. Although he still farms incredibly well and with that free armor pen on ulting and 100% crit spike, he will inevitably come back in any game that lasts longer than 30 minutes as if he had been fed from the start.
: My thinking exactly. I was like, uh, what? Move speed boosts aren't even really gap closers, yet they are, but not in the same sense as say a dash. Jinx compensates for her aoe a little by having reduced attack speed. Her stacking AS has very short range, it's actaully not much longer than urgot's, maybe by about 50 units.
What he meant is that she can trigger her passive mutiple time short succession (quite easily I might add) in a teamfight or when pushing turrets down. As for her attackspeed, true it only stacks up while int eh short range 'Pow Pow' mode. **HOWEVER** if you switch to your 'Fishbones 'after stacking up your attackspeed, the stacks you have stay even when you switch targets and *don't decay until you stop auto attacking*. Even then the stacks only decay after 2.5 seconds and *one at a time*.'Fishbones' will also ALWAYS get the initial stack of Attack Speed - *which is a 65% bonus at max level* which more than makes up for her lower scaling attack speed especially given how the ability can be manipulated with her stacks and its 700 range at max rank. Also FYI her minigun mode auto attacks have 525 range - which is 100 more than Urgots 425. Not nearly as small as you thought. This is actually longer range than Teemo, Lucian and Kog'Maw (without Bio-Arcane Barrage) who all have 500 respectively.
Caezium (NA)
: Well... It's possible. Just... If the enemy team ahead that's like giving them a free Ace, or if they have the right comp it's a free Ace too. (Rumble especially with a J4 would make it a suicide mission for example) There should be a bit more counterplay than that.
Not to mention that if you successfully steal it suddenly it's your team that is OP and the other that have the mismatch without any counter play. I personally agree that a bonus cc effect for champions who already have minimal inbuilt cc in their kits DELIBERATELY to balance their already high mobility and damage (like Kha Zix for example, whose strength in the jungle should be his quick camp clearing not ganking as well) not to mention that it devalues Ashe's Q slow toggle that her entire kit is balanced around (and for which she has appropriate trade-offs designed).
Skias (NA)
: Red Buff pretty much doesn't offer any interesting play either. It applies a perma-slow that is pretty much zero counter play on auto attacking champions or useless to everyone else. I don't see much difference. It's free so the trade off of cost makes little difference. Because of the gold cost, Frozen Mallet is less abusive then Red Buff.
And the fact that Frozen Mallet takes up an item slot that is farm more effectively used for an Item with more damage and/or tank stats as well also makes it less abusive than red buff. Just an addition to the point you were making, which I agree with 100%.
: Easy way out: Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels. Coupling her guaranteed crit to mana expenditure serves to keep its power in check.
> Easy way out: > > Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels. > > Coupling her guaranteed crit to mana expenditure serves to keep its power in check. So long as you also give it the buffer of her existing crit chance as her passive currently does, this would prove to be simple and very effective way to give Ashe relevant damage that would scale well all through the game. I would only add that this passive could only proc on an *already slowed* champion or minion by her frost effect (not including the current application of her Q) so she can't just surprise people with crits and also to give the fear factor of being slowed by Ashe a new edge - you better get out of her range because now that you've taken that slow, the next attack coming you know is gonna be a crit!
: so just gonna leave this here ashe has the highest lvl damage potential of all the adc's because of her passive
> so just gonna leave this here ashe has the highest lvl damage potential of all the adc's because of her passive She has the highest lvl 1 single auto attack potential. However in any prolonged level 1 trade, champions like Caitlyn and Lucian will still prevail because of their superior passives that can be used multiple times. Also, at lvl 2, Ashe falls off so hard in damage potential not even a perfect unanswered passive proc + w hit will help her for long in lane.
: Ashe's Passive
I had two thoughts I'd like to share on Ashe's Passives: --- 1) In regards to her actual passive, I like the idea of her being slow resistant (if not immune) to targets she has put a slow on. That annoying jungle Yi with red buff comes running at you? Be doomed no more. That Lulu support is launching a glittlerlance? Be not 'snared' my fair lady Ashe! You are the original master of slows in League. All joking aside, as Ashe's slow is only 15% at level 1 and scales up to only 35% almost every other champion in the game with a slow has a *stronger* slow. Sure Ashe can perma-slow a target, but when every support is bringing a stronger CC than that and even Caitlyn's 90 Caliber Net slows for 50%, the fact that Ashe can constantly apply hers is irrelevant. She gets hit by a greater slow, knock up, knock back, snare or stun, and she is out of range by virtue of the fact that she has been slowed more (at the very least). Her perma-slow only becomes really useful in a teamfight where she can then effectively kite enemy front lines but even then she is hugely vulnerable if she gets hit by so much as a stray Mundo Cleaver. This passive would compliment her natural kiting while still preserving her inherent low mobility and reliance on skilled positioning to play. A viable alternative I read recently is remarkable in it's simplicity but effectively solves all of Ashe's damage scaling issues throughout the game: >Slowing a target with a Frost-based Slow (or her spells/Q only) gives X stacks of Focus. X scales with ranks in Q and/or levels [Paraphrased]. Full credit goes to [ProfDrDeath](http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/gameplay-balance/YMTRffGv-ashes-passive?show=nested&comment=0020) for this idea, and I thought it such an elegant solution I just wanted to reiterate it here. I offered a couple of refining points, such as this passive could only proc on already slowed targets (i.e on someone hit by her volley or the *subsequent* attack to one that applies her frost shot) and that it can have the buffer of Ashe's crit chance. --- 2) Her E passive - because an extra 600 gold in 20 minutes (assuming you're a god at farming) really doesn't help her survive, her utility, or her damage potential - when chances are every other ADC/support combo will bully you around so much in lane that this will do little more than equalize the gold. As Ashe's not the hardest scaling of ADC's, this passive also *really* doesn't do much for her late game either. So I'd like to propose an alternative that would make Ashe a little more relevant that I have shamelessly borrowed from Jinx, and hopefully in all of your most wonderful and informed opinions, isn't too OP: > **Hawkshot (new) Passive** Ashe's attack speed increases with ever subsequent attack to a slowed target by: 6/10/14/18/22% stacking up to 3 times, for a maximum of: 18/30/42/54/66% [Stacks do not transfer between targets]. I felt like this change to her E (or something like it) will help supplement her late game some so, while not being a hyper carry (and getting nothing like Jinx's 130% AS boost on 'Pow Pow') it would give Ashe a little more late game relevance, while also not making her able to just melt squishies based upon the limitations she will have in repeatedly auto attacking them to get these stacking Attack Speed bonuses. Also, I think, this kind of bonus allows her to itemize more uniquely, like Muramana and Forzen Mallet again, without being forced into an entirely generic attack speed and crit item build to just be able to hold her own. Alternatively, or in addition to this passive effect Ashe could also gain a small CRIT DAMAGE increase [Riot is slowly phasing out low % crit chance (less than 20%) items, passives, and I suspect runes as well soon, because of the unpredictable and hard to interact with nature of crit at low % chances with how it is coded - see Morello's comments on crit: http://boards.na.leagueoflegends.com/en/c/live-gameplay/hbEj1jWi-can-we-finally-phase-crits-rngesus-out-of-the-game?comment=002f00000000]. ---
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Drakexionyx

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