: Been playing 7 years and I love the new systems I own more skins than I will ever need (450+) and will keep getting more because I probably won't stop playing the game. The honour system isn't just for people who aren't toxic its there to make players feel appreciated at the end of a game for things like good calls or being friendly And the mastery system is amazing, sure anyone can get to level 5 given enough time but if your bad you probably wont get the s ranks needed to get the higher levels. Neither of those are scams you can't pay to get a higher mastery or pay to get honour ranks they are things that players need to earn The missions are nice as you don't need to pay to get content. You pay for the better content in sure people who don't spend anything on the game are ok getting skins or icons where as people who pay know what they want.
> [{quoted}](name=Phone1174,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=NQPxaBpg,comment-id=0001,timestamp=2017-08-18T15:15:49.269+0000) > > Been playing 7 years and I love the new systems I own more skins than I will ever need (450+) and will keep getting more because I probably won't stop playing the game. > The honour system isn't just for people who aren't toxic its there to make players feel appreciated at the end of a game for things like good calls or being friendly > And the mastery system is amazing, sure anyone can get to level 5 given enough time but if your bad you probably wont get the s ranks needed to get the higher levels. > Neither of those are scams you can't pay to get a higher mastery or pay to get honour ranks they are things that players need to earn > The missions are nice as you don't need to pay to get content. You pay for the better content in sure people who don't spend anything on the game are ok getting skins or icons where as people who pay know what they want. Mastery 6 or 7 is meaningless. Sorry to burst your bubble man. Old honor system was the same way when it came out. People spamming it because it was the new hype thing. Did it make the game less toxic? Not really. Will this? Not really. Just another shinny thing added to peoples borders than generally just means that player is a honor whore who won't talk in game. Which.... ok cool... you do you. But the fact you get punished for not honoring teammates is dumb. The fact you cannot honor enemy is dumb. The fact every year besides season 7 not having some impact is dumb. And basically just the fact most people will get honor levels because all it takes is playing the game lol. Soon like I said everyone will just have it on their profiles and it will once again be meaningless. Even if not... it still means nothing. You do you. If you like the missions then go all out I could care less about them. I don't need champs, don't need skins, and not like you get anything for doing them. Probably some shitty icons..... wooooo! more icons! LOL. Would have been a nice if when game first came out they added achievements or goals or missions where you could get IP for diong them ( like Blizz Hots has). So new players could overtime gain more ip to unlock new champs. But adding it now is meaningless to half the community. It's basically own zero champs or pay Riot great sums of money. Or play the game for 6-7 years nonstop to unlock most champs. So much greed in one company it's amazing.
Dragfin (NA)
: ***
Weird to come to such an conclusion when you literally said "blizz did one thing I don't like so now I will never play their games again" then right after say "you are the most negative person I have ever met". LMFAO. This community man.
Rioter Comments
: jg catch up xp
Amen it's the dumbest shit ever.
: Nooo... its not the same....... snowballing is definitely through the roof. I can even tell you why. Riot has gone through and nerfed the experience gains of the game drastically. Meanwhile, all items have been powercreeped over time. These two effects work together to make a very snowball oriented game.
> [{quoted}](name=RobSensation,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=ioid7uFP,comment-id=00040000,timestamp=2017-08-18T10:05:19.672+0000) > > Nooo... its not the same....... snowballing is definitely through the roof. > I can even tell you why. > Riot has gone through and nerfed the experience gains of the game drastically. Meanwhile, all items have been powercreeped over time. These two effects work together to make a very snowball oriented game. But they nerfed experience in favor of the player behind..... at least to my understanding. So that would actually do the opposite of what you are saying. It's definitely that way in the jungle and its super annoying. In season 6 you could and generally should be the highest level player in the game and if you outplayed enemy jungler you would be a higher level than them. Now... this can still happen but much more rarely. You have to beyond outplayed the shit out of the enemy jungler to stay ahead in levels because if they go to lane for a few seconds they get an instant level.... even if you out farm and out kill participate them. Now..... I know jungle experience needed nerf and I am happy they nerfed it in seas on 7. But this catchup from behind xp bs is dumb. But game does seem more snowball this season than last. Damage creep has definitely increased over time. The thing I find strange this season compared to prior is games seem more 1 sided than before. I think it does have to do with LCS viewership. In silver.... players trying to take objectives and work together was a lot more rare than it is this season. Only problem is.... its almost always one team who gets it... and one team who still is clueless. So the stomps are worse because one team actually has some macro sense in silver now... while the other is still the classic silver clueless macro team. I haven't noticed a difference in gold this season. Both season 6 & season 7 most of my games have felt even and not super snowball stomps. Silver felt way worse to play through this season than last season though. No idea about how higher elos feel.
DracoMTA (NA)
: When did this game go from a game of Stratgey?
Have played since season 1 and don't really see a difference. Yes, metas are more defined and players are generally better. But how can you blame Riot for an increase in player game knowledge through time played? You saying you miss people being brain dead and playing with no jungle and double bot? Or? Like.... it's literally the exact same map... exact same game lmfao. I like to bitch on this web page I do but.... people saying this game no longer takes strategy are literally the dumbest of the dumb.
Mcemc (EUW)
: Your ranked matchmaking system is absolute MESS.
ehhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh. So l like... I agree that their ranked system isn't the best and it is frustrating as hell. But you at 29% win rate... you were clearly over placed (hate this games placement system). Like.... yea silver is a shit show but it still easy enough to at least have a 50% win rate in. That being said.... I am having trouble on my alt account getting out of silver 4... which has never really happened before. Still at a 53% win rate but.... then I get to promos and lose like 3 games in a row. But I think it's more me just picking champs I don't main and not being able to carry the game. It feels shitty like you said literally having to carry games but..... it's pretty much what silver/bronze about. And really... most elos if you actually deserve to be higher rank. Pretty much need to find a role to main and then main 1-2 champs that your best at in that role. It's annoying but its the best way to climb. Even though I had 3 accounts in mid gold last season it still took me awhile to get out of silver (and like I said have an account chilling in s4). But.... when I stick to a main role and 1-2 champs I win much more consistently than when I switch up champs and roles all the time. The thing I am still trying to figure out is... my win rate literally goes up in gold.... and I get outplayed all the time. But I have never been a mechanically good player. I am all about the team and I find teamwork once you hit gold to be more consistent than in silver. So even though I get outplayed a lot because I am not very good... I can play for mid/late game and still win over 50% of my games because I can generally bank on my teammates to help me make plays in the mid/late game. But in silver...... can't do that. Just have to assume you going to have to do most the work and just try to play around the 1 or 2 good teammates you get when you get them. Pretty much just need to find a strategy that works for you and spam it until you hit your next rank wall. But like pros say even though ranked is annoying you can only focus on yourself. You won't find challenger/master high diamond players bitching about silver because 1. they will always place in gold unless intent throw and 2. they carry so hard because their so good at the game it doesn't matter how bad their teammates are.
: "I'm not going to allow you to bring your desktop to college with you"
Fuck I miss college. Back when life made sense {{sticker:zombie-nunu-bummed}}
: I firmly believe we need a new division next season
Yea I really hate playing in silver these days. Happy to be back in gold and actually enjoy my games now (albeit I don't play much ranked these days). But climbing back through silver this season after being gold 3 and dropping to bronze 1 was a shit show. Had me fired up. Games are just so inconsistent like you said.... just too many variables and skillsets of players. It's really hard to guess what the enemy and your team is thinking each game because one game a player will be a fresh level 30 new to ranked and the next you will be playing a 7-8 year vet like myself. Makes it hard to get into a groove. People can say what they want but playing the game and different styles at each elo is part of climbing. Your not going to be a challenger player and playing {{champion:40}} support in silver. You going to go some carry and plan on getting 20-30 kills a game and just 1v9ing.
: Slew of consecutive bad teams. Why?
Meh.... shit streaks happen. It's annoying but part of the climb. Get better and climbing gets easier until you reach players around your elo. IT's best to take breaks once you lose a couple games in a row. Losing usually leads to tilt even if you don't feel it. I found taking breaks after losing 2 games in a row was the best way for me to avoid super long losing streaks. Worked really well for me in both season 6 & season 7.
: Why Are People So Terrible?
Is it really that hard to mute people if it bothers you that much? Like honestly.... this community annoys me. Not because of the toxicity... I have played since season 1. It's the fact that it's season 7 and we have people like OP still crying about the same shit when you can literally mute players......... When I am feeling mad and don't want to rage you know what I do? I mute my teammates and the enemy. Then you know what happens???? I forget all about them. Try it.... you will thank me later.
: Message to all players no matter the elo:
I think it ultimately just comes down players in solo queue not giving a shit. You see it watching streamers in that elo all that time picking troll picks or just dumb team comps because they want to play a certain champ rather than care about their team comp. It's the same in all elos I am sure. I have only ever been silver/gold, but learned early on in ranked to just stop carrying what my teammates pick. I have won games with the worst team comps and have lost games when we have had great team comps. Granted, I am low elo so team comp means less but... yea... people just spam games in solo queue and don't really pay attention to team comps all the time. Sadly like you .... I do..... so I don't always get to play what I want and will pick certain champs for team comp instead of my own joy.
HAVENFELL (EUNE)
: Why the LoL Ranked System is a Failure
Dang ice cold lol. I guess you can tell what type of player I am off a conversation on the boards. Well..... when the game deranks you at the start of a season I think it is wise to assume you may be one of the smartest players in the game. Helped me a lot last season and this season actually. Just following your teammates around not thinking for yourself is a good way to stay stuck in one spot on the ladder. Of course.... you would know this if you actually played rank. Sounds like you more just follow your teammates around though and let them do the thinking for you. "you embody the exact kind of mindset that League isn't meant for." Again hard to draw the conclusion from a random conversation. I feel like there is more than one way to view this game and have taken a healthier mindset towards the game. Although I will admit a little less desirable than last season but... netted same results so meh... Tribunal? Maybe once in like season 2 or 3...... Pretty sure not though. Nice ASSumption though.
: Helios's Tips for Ranked Play
Once you accept the things you listed and try to improve a bit along with chilling out ranking up becomes easier. At least it was for me. I am still some low ranking noob but changing my mindset and focusing on a few things allowed to stop being stuck in silver. Granted never been higher than mid gold but I know to get a higher rank I need to improve. But like you said... I am lazy and don't care enough to lol.
: > [{quoted}](name=Dukues,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MuJPUm7z,comment-id=000a00000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:52:35.590+0000) > > There's a difference between "getting used to playing with varied players" and playing verse veterans while having brand new fresh level 30 noob on your team. That is basically exactly what silver equates to. > > Then the fucked up part is Riot has the information of a player prior season rank, number of games, highs/lows, etc. But instead of using that basically just turn shit into a chaos storm to start the season. To their credit at least solo/duo is a soft reset instead of hard reset like what was seen in flex queue to start. But still at the end of the day their system is still easy to influence and the start of the season is a rather annoying time to play the game. > > Funniest part is new players look at the start of the season as something new and exciting when really besides resetting your mmr generally lowers peoples ranks and creates for a chaotic ranked experience for a couple months. I do really dread the start of seasons. Like, there's not that much of a difference that it's going to affect you. You're not playing with brand new players every day and every game. How many "new" players do you think there actually are, like actual brand new players that don't understand the game mechanics? Silver isn't a bunch of new players, silver is just a different ranking with a different mindset and different players. It's a lower skill level than gold, but that isn't that drastic. I'm sorry that you feel this way, it's not an accurate representation of the game and personally you sound like a really salty and unhappy player to begin with. Maybe League isn't the game for you? Or ranked isn't. I don't know, to be honest so far all your complaints have been "This is a team game and I hate other players." At least when you boil it all down. You've done nothing but try and call out and point to other players being the problem, and that's not going to get you anywhere so you should prolly just get over it.
> [{quoted}](name=Jesuszilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MuJPUm7z,comment-id=000a000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:57:41.097+0000) > > Like, there's not that much of a difference that it's going to affect you. You're not playing with brand new players every day and every game. How many "new" players do you think there actually are, like actual brand new players that don't understand the game mechanics? > > Silver isn't a bunch of new players, silver is just a different ranking with a different mindset and different players. It's a lower skill level than gold, but that isn't that drastic. I'm sorry that you feel this way, it's not an accurate representation of the game and personally you sound like a really salty and unhappy player to begin with. Maybe League isn't the game for you? Or ranked isn't. I don't know, to be honest so far all your complaints have been "This is a team game and I hate other players." At least when you boil it all down. You've done nothing but try and call out and point to other players being the problem, and that's not going to get you anywhere so you should prolly just get over it. Actual new players? Surprisingly more than you think. Plus add on like one season players who kind of know one role/champ but put them anywhere else and it's like they have never played the game before. More games than not to be honest = boring ass games. "Maybe League isn't the game for you". LOL k. Nice conclusion. Who is it for then? Please enlighten me. Never said I hate other players I just dislike the game prefers quantity of games over quality. After so many years playing I no longer enjoy having to teach the basics of the games to my teammates. In my mind... ranked should be competitive. So when I am forced to spend time grinding games verse newer players it gets old quick especially when its a routine thing every season. The number of games I played this season while in silver 2 (before silver 2 is even end of the season so at the time was like top 40% of players) with a brand new fresh level 30 account with hardly any cs and going 0-11 is astounding. You just sit there and think "why. Why is this acceptable and why does this happen". It goes both ways... sometimes their on your team.. sometimes they on the enemy team.... either way it ruins the game and makes it not competitive. Seems like a simple fix (lower new account starting mmr).
: But every player is different. And playing with varied players is something you are going to have to get used to. If you find that you are having trouble carrying out the game on a more support style jungler or tank, try playing a carry oriented junglers and pressuring harder, become the carry and drag the players up. There's many different styles and ways to play the roles, not just one way. Sure it sucks when players feed then flame, but there's always alternatives to that. And trying to forcibly change the system for ranking isn't going to change that aspect of the game. You're trying to solve an unsolvable problem, the issue with those players isn't the ranked system it's the game itself.
There's a difference between "getting used to playing with varied players" and playing verse veterans while having brand new fresh level 30 noob on your team. That is basically exactly what silver equates to. Then the fucked up part is Riot has the information of a player prior season rank, number of games, highs/lows, etc. But instead of using that basically just turn shit into a chaos storm to start the season. To their credit at least solo/duo is a soft reset instead of hard reset like what was seen in flex queue to start. But still at the end of the day their system is still easy to influence and the start of the season is a rather annoying time to play the game. Funniest part is new players look at the start of the season as something new and exciting when really besides resetting your mmr generally lowers peoples ranks and creates for a chaotic ranked experience for a couple months. I do really dread the start of seasons.
: What if riot never actually added it to the game, and just said that they did. Give people an unobtainable carrot on a stick.
> [{quoted}](name=deadlychuck,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=VdZEd5Ps,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-26T22:04:20.712+0000) > > What if riot never actually added it to the game, and just said that they did. > Give people an unobtainable carrot on a stick. I would be happy as that is the way I treat it now anyways. They lost me when they said fuck all veteran players by removing all honor and just starting everyone at level 2. Other companies wouldn't do that.... but Riot is great at it. I stopped caring awhile ago though and fully expect this on anything they implement. Would have been pumped about rune changes like 4 years ago.... now I am sad they changing them. Can't wait to laugh at my "compensation" for runes I bought in their old soon to be useless system.
: I never said I was, but Dopa isn't the only high elo player in the game, and several other players pay differently. You keep hammering on about Dopa, he's not the only person. Cool, Dopa plays cautiously. I've watched several streamers, Dom, Dyrus, Doublelift, Bjergsen, Froggen, etc. Something that comes up time and time again on those streams is this: One of those streamers makes a risky play, and it either works out or doesn't work out. The streamer then gets flamed by their twitch chat over their perceived bad play, because they weren't cautious. The streamers then come back and say that you can't always just play cautious and defensive, that if they had done nothing there they would have likely just advanced their loss. They had to play aggressively and try and take back some ground as it was the best option for them. And no it's not. Your proposal doesn't help the community. It helps selfish solo laners that think their losses are their team's fault. It does NOTHING for the support trying to protect their ADC. It does nothing for the ADC that can't get peels, it does nothing for the jungler who got invaded and no one supported him. The only thing your proposal does is further the idea that you are not fully responsible for your own actions and your own wins or losses. It furthers the idea that solo laners are the only players in the game that matter. It furthers a false narrative and tries to make excuses for players that want more than they deserve. You have yet to demonstrate to me that you are indeed a player who deserves what you are asking for nor have you demonstrated the idea that there actually is a problem. {{champion:17}}{{champion:17}}{{champion:17}}{{champion:17}}{{champion:17}}{{champion:17}}
> [{quoted}](name=HAVENFELL,realm=EUNE,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MuJPUm7z,comment-id=00080000000000000000000000000000000000010000000000000002,timestamp=2017-07-27T18:14:12.037+0000) > > After a lot of conversation u finally showed ur true aggressive face. Calling me an asshole and calling me a kid just because the system of SOLO/Duo ranked is an innacurate mess in almost every division for which the whole playerbase does the best he can do (on his division level) but is still let down by extreme destroyers. Diamonds find low elo hard because of its extremely random nature. I represent the playerbase, the people while u are stuck in the "grind until death" ideology. If you talking to jesuszilla don't worry he/she don't even play ranked LOL. We been having a long as discussion with someone who DOESN'T EVEN PLAY RANKED! Such a waste of time :(
: {{champion:17}} Yes, it has everything to do with your mentality and lane you play. {{champion:17}} Try playing a support, see how that changes your attitude on the system. {{champion:17}} Or a jungler, be more responsible for securing objectives and ganking for all the losing lanes. {{champion:17}} If anyone deserves to complain about teammates it's the jungler, the punching bag for why someone else lost their lane because you didn't camp it. {{champion:17}}
Hey I main jungle :). Didn't know Jesuszilla loved them jungler mains. This is actually why I hated season 7 so much. Not only did I get my lowest starting rank since basically starting the game but they made changes to jungle and weakened the role compared to season 6 a bit. When I am in gold I can expect my teammates to generally have an understanding that I can't just babysit them and that if they die early its their fault and they need to be aware of early ganks. So you take me playing RANKED with players who think similarly to me to playing "10 magic games" at the start of the season where now most my teammates don't know these things and you tell me "don't worry this fair have fun carrying". Needless to say it takes awhile to adjust and is an unfun experience for veteran players who want to play games verse people who think similar to them and could care less about grinding the ladder for the 1millionth time.
: No upvotes? Are you blind? My first post has 6 and the second has 2. I don't expect many other people are this deep in our conversation and I don't blame them, since you have the demeanor of a child. I think that people believe they are better than they are, and it's clear you and the OP b oth due by the way you talk. Blaming teammates, trying to say that you don't deserve to lose the same LP because you're better than others, etc. The attitudes, arguments, and way you talk all give away the arrogance to your position. Is there a problem with the league ranking system? Maybe, but only if that ranking system isn't providing the purpose it's meant for. There was certainly an issue with flex queue at higher rankings, but that was an issue with the underlying matchmaking system and has since been fixed. The issues related here and the solutions people have for them are quite frankly bullshit. They want to fix the actual INTENT of the ladder system, rather than any problems with it. The ladder is meant to be climbed, you are meant to play lots of games, you are meant to grind and improve over time. These are things you are supposed to do, not issues to be fixed. 1. What does this accomplish? Lowering the MMR of a new account does what? They have already played through 30 levels, and there's a baseline MMR that all those players have. They have to play through the same 10 game preliminary games as you, so i don't see a point to changing their MMR. Do you have any data or statistics to show that new player accounts are being placed on average too high? 2. Placement games are meant to assess a players skill and create a general placement. The ladder resets for a reason and if Riot didn't want the ladder to reset then they would have already done something about it. But let's analyze this for a moment. Why do you feel that placement games are bad/waste of time? Because you have to do them? Because the system has variance? That variance is a built in mechanism for determining general skill. Each season there are new changes and massive shifts to the game, so players that change and adapt their gameplay during this time will have varying levels of skill. The placement matches are there as a catch all for players that are either lower or higher than they should be between the seasons with pending changes. I see no issue with placement matches. The main reason there's no problem with placement matches is that MMR is different than league ranking. Again, the ranking systems are in place for you to climb them. If players were able to keep their end LP and league between seasons those players would eventually grind out of their current places by shear merit of the LP system. The resets keep players from going up and up and up, and that's a good thing. 3. This is entirely different from the actual ranking and MMR system, and I'm not entirely sure where I fall on this one. It's clear that /remake is meant to be used very rarely, only in instances when you have a player who never connected in the first place. It seems that they specifically intended /remake not to be used to completely invalidate games you aren't happy with or that you are losing. As for the trolls, 100% think you are blowing this out of proportion. Unless you have some kind of data on this I am going to suggest that trolls in ranked aren't all over the place or rampant as you suggest and that the people surgically abusing the system just aren't out there in droves. Maybe 1 or 2 players are specifically devoting their time to intentionally ruining your game, but I highly doubt it's enough of a problem to change remake right now. 4. Again, sources? Where are you getting this idea that feeders never get punished? Do you just assume it doesn't happen? 5. Yea, no. Hell no. I think autofill is one of the best things they could have done with the game and forces players that want to play to be more well rounded and team oriented. The worst thing for me in this game is selfish and unhealthy attitudes in the game. It does suck to get autofilled to a roll you are not familiar with, but you can communicate with your team, work around it, and you get a protection status after those games. it's not the best thing in the world, but the alternatives aren't any better either. Also the queue times at higher ELO levels are outrageous. The autofill system was put in place because the queue times are so high.
> [{quoted}](name=Jesuszilla,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=MuJPUm7z,comment-id=0008000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000,timestamp=2017-07-27T15:22:56.701+0000) > 1. What does this accomplish? Lowering the MMR of a new account does what? They have already played through 30 levels, and there's a baseline MMR that all those players have. They have to play through the same 10 game preliminary games as you, so i don't see a point to changing their MMR. Do you have any data or statistics to show that new player accounts are being placed on average too high? > It's kind of hard to present data for everything when it's not made public. Obviously you won't accept personal experience as an answer because "that doesn't count". You don't play ranked so you wouldn't experience it. Even listening to your own argument there is no reason for starting mmr of accounts to be so high. Since you don't know starting mmr is right at 50% (generally silver 3 depending on time of season). So some fresh kid just getting 30 jumps into a ranked environment. You think he's going to be able to handle himself in silver 3 verse top 50% of player population. A population who may not be great at the game, but has tons of experience? The player could fair well.... but chances and what is seen time & time again is they can't. So what happens? Well... this player feeds.... they feed hard. They lose the game literally signal handily for their team. What happens next? Well either they completely destroyed by this experience and freak out and gain ranked anxiety and quit playing ranked or much more nervous when playing. That or they keep playing and play another. Verse lower mmr people? Well... system too dumb for that. Mmr might be a little lower but it's still about the same mmr as their first game. So what happens? Well...... same thing as last game. And this keeps happening.... game after game after game. UNTIL they finally end placements with 2-8, 1-9, 0-10. Then a lot of the times they only get like bronze 2-3 and end up dropping even further. Or someone has played the game awhile so they have some experience but never play ranked (think of yourself). Then they finally jump into rank... similar thing happens where maybe they win a few games. Then they get placed silver 5. They think "o sweet I made silver wooooo I am so good". Well then they spam games thinking they not bronze so they got this and then bam.... huge losing streak. Eventually they lose enough to drop out of silver and into bronze where they drop down until they reach whatever division. Or they get placed in silver and drop to silver 5 and then get stuck there ruining a bunch of games because although they may not quite be bronze they are not good enough to even compete in mid silver. Small chance the player understands mobas and is new to league and maybe they can compete in mid silver. Probs not. If someone can it's generally because their a smurf. Sooo why would we be against smurfs potentially starting at a lower rank? After all as you said the whole point of the ladder is to climb? So really.... the only change new accounts starting with lower mmr would make is it may make climbing for smurfs a little longer. At what cost? The cost of having new players reach their actual elo quicker ruining less games, bringing a small amount of meaning to silver since less new players would start in silver their first season when they really not that elo but reached it because starting mmr too high. Hmm.... seems like a small price to pay for some quality of life changes for new players and players playing in this elo (which happens to be 60-70% of the player population depending on point of season). But yea your right.... I have no idea what I am talking about. It's not like I haven't lived through this experience myself, nor played through these elos multiple times in multiple seasons nor tested placement system with multiple of my own accounts starting at different times of season. > 2. Placement games are meant to assess a players skill and create a general placement. The ladder resets for a reason and if Riot didn't want the ladder to reset then they would have already done something about it. But let's analyze this for a moment. Why do you feel that placement games are bad/waste of time? Because you have to do them? Because the system has variance? That variance is a built in mechanism for determining general skill. Each season there are new changes and massive shifts to the game, so players that change and adapt their gameplay during this time will have varying levels of skill. The placement matches are there as a catch all for players that are either lower or higher than they should be between the seasons with pending changes. I see no issue with placement matches. The main reason there's no problem with placement matches is that MMR is different than league ranking. Again, the ranking systems are in place for you to climb them. If players were able to keep their end LP and league between seasons those players would eventually grind out of their current places by shear merit of the LP system. The resets keep players from going up and up and up, and that's a good thing. > Placements don't do shit in this game. You said yourself the ladder is meant for climbing, yet placements allow for new players to be placed higher than they should be while at the same time forcing older more experienced players to climb more. They could literally scrap the system after doing your original 10 placements on a new account and the system would literally not change at all. After an account is ranked one season placements are essentially useless. And since time waited to do placements affects your starting rank it makes placements abuse-able. > 3. This is entirely different from the actual ranking and MMR system, and I'm not entirely sure where I fall on this one. It's clear that /remake is meant to be used very rarely, only in instances when you have a player who never connected in the first place. It seems that they specifically intended /remake not to be used to completely invalidate games you aren't happy with or that you are losing. As for the trolls, 100% think you are blowing this out of proportion. Unless you have some kind of data on this I am going to suggest that trolls in ranked aren't all over the place or rampant as you suggest and that the people surgically abusing the system just aren't out there in droves. Maybe 1 or 2 players are specifically devoting their time to intentionally ruining your game, but I highly doubt it's enough of a problem to change remake right now. > In its current state remake hardly changes anything. Its so easy to get around its laughable. Like I said... people can literally join the game for a few seconds and then just leave and never come back forcing their team to play a 4v5. I have seen it many times this season. > 4. Again, sources? Where are you getting this idea that feeders never get punished? Do you just assume it doesn't happen? > You can find your own proof. There's literally a player with 30-50 accounts all with similar names devoted to intent feeding. There has been reddit post with proof even recently about it. Player still not banned. It's a fact you are quicker to be punished for verbal abuse than intentional feeding. Even though verbal abuse has a counter players can use every game (mute), which is quite astonishing that more people don't use it. Yet what can you not stop? A teammate from intentionally feeding. > 5. Yea, no. Hell no. I think autofill is one of the best things they could have done with the game and forces players that want to play to be more well rounded and team oriented. The worst thing for me in this game is selfish and unhealthy attitudes in the game. It does suck to get autofilled to a roll you are not familiar with, but you can communicate with your team, work around it, and you get a protection status after those games. it's not the best thing in the world, but the alternatives aren't any better either. Also the queue times at higher ELO levels are outrageous. The autofill system was put in place because the queue times are so high. Well high elo players disagree with you. I stem from a time when in ranked no role was guaranteed and you had to get used to playing all roles. Hell... I play fill in ranked most the time now because I don't care and have go to characters in each role. But with the new ranked system the meaning of ranked changed. It's now more than even what rank can you achieve playing your best role with best champions. When you autofill players at the highest skill level games turn into who has the most auto filled players and generally the team with most auto filled = loss. The only reason auto fill is even implemented is to reduce queue times. But many high elo players say they would rather wait to get their role than be auto filled into roles they don't main. Again, I personally don't find playing fill but I like the idea of a more competitive ladder and auto fill reduces competitiveness of games.
: Actually I don't really rage anymore, I really just don't care that much. It's a game, one to enjoy. I find it hilarious that you think that I've never encountered a feeder or something in my time, considering I started the game around the time of release Xin Zhao and have played off and on since then. I'm not too afraid to touch ranked, I gave you my reasoning over normals in the other thread. Please refrain from acting like a child and throwing a temper tantrum on all my posts, it's not very conductive and you are becoming less and less stable with each post. I gave you my logic, reasoning, examples, resources, and even Riot's own wording. All you've done is insult me and cry a lot.
"I hardly play the game but hear me out" - puke. Well seeing as you are getting no up votes I would say others disagree with you as well. Not really sure why everyone who thinks people complaining about the system thinks that players believes they deserve diamond or whatever rank. I know I am not a diamond player, I am actually right where I should be. Doesn't mean I don't think the current system is annoying and could use improvements. What improvements? Well with the current system I would suggest. 1. Lower new account starting mmr. 2. Get rid of placement games for previously ranked accounts and hit each with soft rank reset and tell players if they opt into ranked they will start at "xxx" rank. Placement games are a waste of time especially in silver/bronze. In gold & plat they just annoying because the variance of your rank can actually change quite a lot mostly based on luck (at least at start of the season). High elo they pointless since all those players start at highest rank and get back to their normal rank quick. Might as well just start them at plat 1 since they end up there anyways since they have such high prior mmr. 3. Expand on remake system where players have to at least buy items and move around first 3 minutes of the game. Right now people can easily troll out of remakes or connect once when game starts then lose connection again and still result in no remake. 4. Punish intentional feeders harder and quicker. Right now intentionally feeding almost goes unpunished. 5. Reduce number of auto filled players. Start with slight increase in queue times before game looks to auto fill and see how community feels. This is more for high elo that is directly affected. I think it would be interesting of Riot could establish very low basic standards for certain variables like cs/kda/dmg done/ etc. for different elos. Number so low for an elo that the only way you would actually hit these numbers is if your trolling or boosted/bought an account and clearly over ranked. If people hit these really low minimums their mmr on losses gets punished much harder and they don't really gain anything for wins. The one problem I see with this is players switching roles and someone going a non-meta support or something. But right now if you are over ranked or just decide to troll to get a lower rank you can lose many games before you drop ranks especially tiers. Maybe players would like this on an upper side as well where if you have an insanely high and good stats with a great win percentage you gain mmr and lp faster. So instead of unranked to challenger in 100 games people could do it in 50-70 or something. Although in reality.... these really good players probably don't mind the grind as League generally their life anyways. But... it would get smurfs out of lower elo quicker having them ruin a few less games. Although when you have high level smurfs in your game it does help put your skill in perspective so I don't usually mind it as much as when you get someone who is clearly boosted or trolling.
: I'm defending rational thought, not Riot. Why is that the go to excuse when people disagree with someone else and are mad at their response. "Oh ho ho, you are such a Riot lover, har har." Do you really think that is some kind of stance that makes sense or makes me look bad? After all, it is Riot that brought us this game. Do I agree with everything they do? Of course not. But what you are asking for is absurd. And it is obvious to anyone with common sense who can accept how math works. And really, I'm going to take the whining of reddit into account for salty players in this matter? For those who say "Why am I X rank after placement?" they really just need to get over it. It's a matter of expectations and people with unreasonable expectations shouldn't need everything spelled out for them. Is there somewhere in the game when you queue up that tells you every little detail of every aspect of the game? No. How do you learn the value of the minions then? By playing the game. What an interesting and novel approach, instead of complaining about what rank you were placed into people should play the game and grind it out. And I'm sorry you what? You "Know" how it works huh? And I what, just take that at face value. I know how quantum physics works, I can tell when black hole's will appear and suck up our galaxy, and sadly you better say your peace soon. See how much credibility that gives me? Instead of just claiming that the system is broken and there's something wrong with it how about doing what I did, and showcasing the way ranking systems work, talking about the goals of them, making references to existing terminology and systems that are in place and actually showcasing your supposed knowledge and having a big boy conversation, instead of just crying foul and getting mad when someone disagrees. The current system makes perfect sense if you understand the goals and metrics that are used for the game. So far you've defined none of those and given no information to suggest you know a damn thing.
I learned a long time ago to not listen to players typing on boards with unranked accounts. Obviously there is a reason you are using an unranked account. Forgetting for a second that you trying to hide something let's debate. "common sense on how math works". Well..... that's not really true seeing as how 1. Riot has never shared how their ranked formula works so there is no actual equation to follow 2. The variables literally change based on time into season... which time is not taken into consideration. THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A SECOND. Time of season is not a direct component of the ranked system, yet it is a very real variable. Whether intended or not doesn't matter since it does play a large impact on starting ranks. This is what I find upsetting and annoying. I may come off as "crying" only because I have had this conversation many times in past years and it's never been an acknowledged problem. Riot has shown no interest in fixing it and I know they never will. As far as "goals" when is the last time Riot has stated ranked "goals"? To my knowledge rank meaning has never been defined by Riot. They obviously care about queue times and based on their actions have shown they prefer to reduce queue times and increased quantity of games rather than the quality. How can this be seen? Look at autofill. Autofill has nothing to do with making more evenly matched games only to reduce queues times. Although it reduces queue times it comes at the cost of greatly reducing quality of matches. "people should play the game and grind it out". Again..... something not defined in the game. Players eventually figure it out and lots realize they don't care and just quit altogether. Riot never specifically says this is part of the game though so many new players are rather shocked when they realize how true "grind it out" actually is. What metrics are you referring to? MMR? LP? Yea... everyone agrees mmr and LP make so much sense. Reality is... if Riot actually gave a shit about match making or hell even ranks having a meaning then they would see there is a large flaw in how ranks are presented. Matches are based off mmr so the players you play based off mmr. This means LP gains and losses are directly affected by mmr. Yet... mmr is never shown anywhere in game and is hidden only for Riot to see. It is known a player can be XX rank which generally means MMR = YYYY. But very often a player's mmr doesn't actually match what their rank "should be". Basically.... making ranks meaningless as they a lot of the time don't actually really mean anything. Of course it's easier for players to say "I am gold 5" rather than "my mmr is currently 1400" and therefore will most likely never be changed. So if Riot's system makes so much sense then describe what sense you gather from this information. A player is really good at the game but only plays normal. They finally decide to try ranked and go 10-0 in placements landing in gold 1. Their mmr after their 10th game is plat 1. They routinely play and compete/beat challenger/master players. In this instance their rank effectively means nothing. They have the option of playing XXX number of games of trying to reach their "true" rank which is around challenger/master. They could play a few games and rank up to plat/diamond and then stop if they wanted. Or they could just leave their account and their season 7 rank would say "gold 1" but in reality the player is much better than that they just didn't waste time playing Riot's grind the system game. I don't expect a perfect system and know on some level the current system makes sense. However, the current system really isn't defined by Riot and therefore makes it hard to derive meaning from player's ranks unless it's seen that they have played hundreds of games.
: I feel bad for junglers at low elo
Mute all is a jungler's best friend.
: I mean, it should be glaringly obvious and go without saying that you aren't going to be placed appropriately within just 10 games. There shouldn't need to be a disclaimer that in the first 10 random games your rank could fluctuate wildly, because that is a given, at least something that seems like common sense. Something to remember about the games you play when you first start, it's a verying degree of different players and different skill levels. The system is attempting to see if you fit best in bronze, silver, or gold by matching you with players of those rankings and seeing where that puts you. It only has 10 games to do this, so if you flub your gold matches you are screwed, likewise starting later in the season reduces the size of the pool for those preliminary placement matches. These are all things that are obvious and shouldn't be a shock to anyone, the fact you need them to spell it out for you is something on you not them. I could have told you that 10 games isn't enough to gauge appropriate rank, that's why there's a system dedicated to you playing... Why would you think that you could just be magically placed where you're supposed to be without playing very many games? As for your last part, the games are going to feel however you think they should feel. The games could be matched perfectly and you could feel unfairly treated in the games or the loss could feel not good. There are players I have met who are NEVER happy even when they win a game, especially a close game. Your enjoyment of the game is always going to be subjective, and the system shouldn't be based on whether the games necessarily felt good to you, but whether the goals for the system were met. You should watch some Diamond and Challenger games sometimes, I've seen a ton of one-sided shit shows there too, people think they aren't supposed to happen in even skilled games but that's just not the case and never will be.
Was hoping you could answer this but just spouted comical nonsense. Why do people love defending Riot so much? Already a large part of the player population doesn't even touch ranked because they know match making is bs. Another large chunk don't take the grind seriously. But the system only works with a large player base and for serious players dedicated to grinding and trying to climb. Maybe it's just me... but that seems like a huge a miss on Riot's part. ....... "it should be glaringly obvious" .... well obviously not. Have you even played this game for more than a season? Have you looked at reddit/boards for first like 8 weeks of a season? Because if you have....then you would know it's filled with "why am I xxx rank after placements" posts. Clearly... not as obvious as you think. Funniest part is you act like their system is just common sense and makes sense and everyone should just roll with it. Sadly.... I know how it works... I know it doesn't make much sense, and I like to point out when there is a problem. Sorry but.... I like when things make some sense in a world where we keep going more and more to the nonsensical.
: I find this analysis lacking because it ignores the principles and functionality of both ELO/MMR based ranking systems and it also puts heavy assumptions on the way that statistics and values in the ranking system works. Firstly, the first 10 provisional games are meant to give you a baseline starting point, it's not that the game thinks you belong there, it's that the ranking system has determined that over a 10 game period your performance best fits you in this area. The point of any ranking system and matchmaking system is to match players with other players of similar or relative skill. It does this by assigning a rating to all players and then determining if your matchups are even, favored, or unfavored, then granting you points for wins or taking them away for losses based on this. This is the most consistent OVER TIME way of determining relative skill in gaming, and has been used in chess for a LOOOOONG time. But here's the thing, in order to keep up with the system you have to keep playing. Your rank isn't going to be gauged correctly in the first 10 games, probably not even in the first 100 games, and there has to be something that also accounts for player skill growth over time. You aren't going to always be stuck in silver if you grow, so why should your ranking show this either? The massive issue with people is that they think the system is somehow more accurate at higher ranks because there are fewer people, but that's actually a fallacy. More densely populated ranking systems tend to have MMR values closer together, meaning you are more likely to get even matchups based on the system, and since players with heavy winstreaks level out faster (yes, this is intended and good) players who overperform at lower levels are forced out of those levels faster, making for more even matchups. Nearly everything you listed as a problem with the system is not a problem, it's the intended way the system works and the reason why it works. Win streaks SHOULD push you out of the rankings faster because it's a marker that a player is more skilled than the ranking they are playing in. Additionally if you are playing consistently with even wins and losses, you aren't to be expected to go anywhere, because you are showing that you are playing in your specific bracket. It kills me when I see people complain that their consistent play doesn't let them climb the rankings, as if somehow they are entitled to a higher rank, without realizing that the purpose of a ranking system isn't to let everyone climb it but rather that the purpose of the ranking system is to match teammates more evenly. TL:DR - OP's analysis is incorrect, the claims he makes against the system as problems are actually the benefits of the system and the reason it works. You don't always deserve to climb, sometimes you deserve to be hard stuck. Deal with it.
The thing I dislike about the system is that placements change throughout the season since starting mmr will change with rank soft resets. That and to get your "actual rank" you really need to play like 100-150 games at least. Riot should make this clear when you go to play ranked that unless you play say 150 games your rank is meaningless. Because in reality... it is. For example: I ended last season in gold 3 and my rank based on player population was exactly at top 20%. Now..... after a magical 10 games at the start of the season my rank was bronze 1 (like 70% of player population). Now does the system really think I am a bronze player? No... so I have highly inflated mmr and get large lp gains and lose small amount of lp per loss. Problem is I have to PLAY a good number of games. Which... ok it's the same for everyone right when a season starts. Problem is... it doesn't stay that way. I have another account that was gold 4 last season with a high win rate and gold 2/3 mmr. I finally started doing my placements and currently 5-3 in them. According to op.gg my current mmr is gold 2 and it predicts I will be placed gold 2. Now obviously.... op.gg isn't Riot's system and is not 100% correct. My best guess is.. if I don't shit the bed and end 7-3 or 6-4... hell maybe even 5-5 I will probably be placed at least gold 5. Now..... does this mean my exact rank is gold 5? No. Problem is... the number of games to reach my "actual skill" level is much less on an alternate account than it is on my main account SOLELY based on when I do placements during the season. And I think that is one HUUUUGGEEEE flaw in this system. It makes ranks have less meaning and causes match making problems especially early in the season. I dropped all the way to bronze 1... and yes although others dropped as well I was playing with players I should not have been playing with. Yes... winning wasn't that hard... but some games were unwinnable and all games felt pointless and like a waste of time. And that is my biggest gripe with this system. Since it focuses so much on SPAM GAMES and seasons are so long.... the quality of matches are generally lacking. You basically spend a couple months a season just grinding back to your ACTUAL average skill level. Then maybe if you have the time and energy you try and improve and climb higher. But a lot of us get tired or don't care enough to do that so then we just chill and a lot of times get stuck with low quality matches. I would rather have a system focus on making evenly matched games where winning felt good and losing didn't most the time feel terrible. I know there will be stomps... but grinding through silver is such a shit show. So many 1 sided games or hard throws that make you think "why I do even play this game". And I hate that and is why I was so mad with my placements and why I quit playing for roughly 4 months. Now that I am back towards my actual skill level games feel more competitive and are fun.. but I also ran out of fucks to give on my way back up so now I hardly play anymore. So many seasons of the same grind wears even the most dedicated League players out. Time for a change to their system.
: Help me climb
I have struggled a lot in climbing through silver in season 7 as well. I am a little confused as looking at your account shows you haven't been gold since season 4 but... maybe you have more than one account. Only reason I bring it up is if you truly been gold before then you probably view the game a little different than your consistent silver teammates. I main jungle as well. This season is unfortunate in farming jungle and out scaling the enemy is not as reliable as it was last season. Jungle was basically nerfed with jungle changes compared to season 6 and experience works a little different. Good news is jungle is still quite strong (has most control over the game) and most likely is still the most influential role. The main thing with climbing is sticking to a role and certain champions. I would find two or so jungle champions you really enjoy playing (who seem strong in current meta) and spam them. Learn the strongest builds and adjust your play based on your games. I picked up starting to play {{champion:79}} this season as I knew he was strong and I had never really gotten into playing him. I struggled for a few games but eventually got better with him and was able to get on a hot streak and climb out of silver. Currently have a 69% win rate with him after 39 games. Remember silver is still silver and players are basically the same as they were in prior seasons. This season is a little more snowball than season 6 and it does seem like teams start grouping earlier than they used to. That threw me off for awhile but now that I am used to it climbing is not a problem. Remember as jungle you have control over objectives. Try and control drakes/rift herald. Depending on the jungler you play the easier it is to solo these. When playing {{champion:79}} it takes longer and is harder to solo these objectives so I usually focus more on ganking and counter ganking and waiting for my team to help. I have started to play a lot more {{champion:121}} and have had some success in silver soloing these objectives when I know enemy is not around. It's really easy to solo these objectives with {{champion:121}}. Get rid of any ego you may have and just focus on each game at hand. Some games will be unwinnable but one thing that has strayed true for years is silver/bronze players are terrible at ending games (so are golds but not quite as bad). Remember each game there is a high chance of the enemy team throwing so try and look at the bigger picture. Just because your team behind does not mean you are out of it. After 20 mins silver games turn into a huge cluster fuck. So if you are a legit gold or higher macro player focus on trying to survive early game and then out rotating/out playing enemy in mid/late game (if behind early). But if you have a strong early lead then try and focus on snowball and closing the game out.
: I'm definitely not trying to simplify other roles. It's just that in my experience support has by far the most to manage compared to any other role. I've played them all. I'm not saying other roles are easy, just that support has the most to manage, which makes it the hardest.
I get this is an opinion piece but saying "I have played them all" doesn't really hold much weight here. Most of us have played all roles. On a personal level my worst role is top and I find it hardest to play, but I don't think its the hardest role in the game. Look its hard to say since neither of us are high elo players. For me... although mastering support is very difficult for the reasons you mentioned I feel it is the easiest role to transition into or start to learn. And although it may be hard to rank up playing the role in certain elos in my eyes doesn't mean that role is super difficult, just has less overall impact on games. But I guess that leads to defining what does difficulty as far as roles in League of Legends mean? Is it just the number of things you need to do in a role? The amount of impact a role has? The mechanical skills it takes to play the role? etc. League is a complex game and is what makes the measurement of how difficult a role is to play complex. I believe it involves the variables I listed above plus more. Due to this, I believe jungle is the most difficult role to play. Jungle has the most control over the map and objectives (at least dragon/baron). You have to decide which lanes you will try to help gank and when. Jungle camps give different level of xp and there are different ways to clear and different routes to clear depending on your champion and the game. Jungling is always different as it is a game of chess verse the enemy jungler. Jungle has a large impact on the game so if you can outplay the enemy jungler there is a decent chance of your team winning the game. There is an equal chance of you being outplayed by the enemy jungler and creating a large disadvantage for your team. Will you farm more in the hopes of outsclaing the enemy? Will you try to force more ganks to build a lead for your laners? Will you focus more on counter jungling and counter ganking? When do you take objectives? Where is the enemy jungler and when you know where they are what does that mean for you? If their top to you go top to help? Gank mid? Gank bot? Counter jungle? Take dragon? All these decisions are constant and changing throughout the game every game. Making the right call is not always easy and can be very difficult. If you are an amazing jungler then yes winning is a lot easier than in other roles. But getting to that level is insanely hard. Also don't forgot jungle changes every season. Not just a couple item changes or new meta champions in that role, but literally jungle camp spawns/exp/gold/routes. Almost every season a large change made to these areas of the jungle making for a new learning/relearning curve.
: Supports are literally the busiest players in game. I've played every role, supports have to watch and manage more than any role. Also I didn't downvote you, I think it's stupid to down vote opinions unless they're offensive or obvious trolls. And as for your last point, no that's not true. I'm a hardcore support main but I can reasonably hold my own in any role.
> [{quoted}](name=SnakDatSmilesBak,realm=NA,application-id=3ErqAdtq,discussion-id=pEh5zgjW,comment-id=00020000,timestamp=2017-07-24T16:21:10.932+0000) > > Supports are literally the busiest players in game. I've played every role, supports have to watch and manage more than any role. You act like every role doesn't have a lot to manage. You can't just simplify other roles to promote one role.
: Support is the hardest role
............................................................................................................. Support is the easiest role in the game LMFAO. Yes it is difficult and mastering it is insanely difficult. But... lmfao its the exact opposite of hardest. Jungle is the hardest role followed by mid/top. Adc is above support but below the others. Whats as bad if not worse in high elo than an auto filled team? Any auto filled support main team. You can throw others laners into the support role and although they may suck, your team still has a fair chance of winning. But throw a hardcore support main into another role? Team is in for some trouble.
: Gragas doesn't need high base damage + ratios AND %hp
LEAVE {{champion:79}} ALONE! plz {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
: I want to know the counterplay to yi
At high elo he pretty useless but in low elo he annoying as fuck. I have always hated the champion and still do. I agree with you I think the champion is retarded and needs to be reworked. Being auto attacked to death isn't much outplay. The reason he harder in low elo is people suck at focusing him and use their cc at the wrong time. When you have a group of people who actually know how to deal with him its gg Yi but lots of times in lower elo you don't and it makes it hard to deal with him even when the enemy yii is clueless as fuck. I usually just make sure to use my cc at the right time but if they get lucky or are smart enough to save their alpha strike for my cc I am dead. Or better yet...... just auto attack you and not even use alpha strike because they wait out your cc. Had that happen to me when playing {{champion:254}} in 3s. I was fed as fuck... and know how to deal with yii. This yii was also super garbage but one time I even fucken engaged him... used red smite... and was waiting for him to alpha strike so I could ult and he usually started fights with alpha because he was dumb as shit, but this one time he didn't and I died super quickly. Granted I didn't have armor but..... I was fed as fuck and can blow him up. Problem is.... I need my ult to do it effectively and I gave him too much respect and he got some lucky crits and boom I am dead. And this is from a brainless idiot who fed all game. I have literally lost games to yiis starting off 0-10 because in mid/late game they might forget to be focused one fight or play one fight ok and kill your team. Its just dumb... I am sorry but it is. I know he's garbage when focused properly but fuck man.... the champion is desinged so badly. Fucking rework him and make him take some actual skill to play and give him some options other than "farm all game then ult and alpha strike late game". People say "well if you hate him so much play him and see if he easy to play". The thing is.... I have played him and I find him dull as fuck and the few games I have played him more than not I have gotten an insane amount of kills. Because its low elo... people suck at focusing me... and I kill 3 of them before they even see it coming. I might die... but the game is won. And I think its just dumb and boring as shit and has been that way the entire time the champion has been in the game. At least ap Yii has been dead for a good amount of time. Fuck that old ass bs.
abdul569 (EUW)
: When the 0/4 adc claims to be a smurf
Hey I have been that adc before. It's the supports fault {{sticker:slayer-jinx-wink}}
Dr Poro (EUW)
: Mastery 1 would probably be too much change for too little effect indeed. You made some strong points and got me doubting about the efficiency myself. Perhaps it's not that bad indeed, as you said it's 50/50 on which team they are (actually 40/50). But it would make matches slightly more even, although there are many other factors that can swing the game either way (disconnects, etc.). Maybe I'm just having a wrong vision on what people in lower brackets want, but when I asked my friends, they'd really love this. But then again, I'm not sure if they'd still love it when it comes through (since they first-time champs themselves, maybe they'd hate that it's not possible anymore.) Personally I'm a fan of making ranked more competitive. It's litterally the only distinction between that and normal drafts. I don't think it's a bad thing to stretch that distinction. All in all, I still stick with my opinion, although I better understand the other side of the coin now. Thanks for having this discussion. What do you think about the second suggestion?
Nice input honestly your first suggestion not a bad one just not sure if it fits this game's style. I know heroes of the storm has it where you need a certain hero level before you can play that hero in ranked (i hardly play that game so I have been burned on this rule a couple times since I forget lol). Would be interesting to see how that community feels about the rule and what results Blizzard has seen throughout the last couple years. As far as your second point I like the idea. It could offset some of the randomness that is champion select and roles assuming teammates are willing to cooperate. In the end I don't think its a huge deal and can't really see Riot implementing such a change. But if they did implement the change I would be ok with it.
: Why does league feel like a coin toss?
This is why I am happy to be in low gold currently. Games are chill and feel even for the most part. But fuck man.... sounds like low diamond is a mess parts of plat sound like a mess. I personally hate mid & low silver because it's the same... a fucking mess. Like yea people are bad so if your good you will carry but if you only slightly better (like me) then it can feel like a complete luck of the draw. You never know when you going to get that new player just starting placements who can't even compete in bronze 5 but is in your silver 2 game (happened multiple times this season). Reality, it's 5v5 and part of mming is luck of the draw. As sad as it is it's a reality. Only counterpoint is to play many games and have the most impact you can each game and in time you should reach your actual rank. It's not the best system but it's the one we got.
: I'd rather wait 5 more minutes for the queue than play a role I don't know how to play
Meh I have played this game forever. I am a low elo player with a basic understanding of each role so it doesn't really bother me. Hell I am playing fill in ranked now anyways. But I get your point.
Ba Vhalk (NA)
: Smurfing goes the wrong way
I quit trying to get friends into this game a long time ago. I know what a shit show it is and don't want to have anyone else experience it. Plus playing in those games with them feels so damn terrible.
Dr Poro (EUW)
: I personally don't approve smurfing and I believe neither does Riot, although they tolerate it because the game is lacking in certain aspects. But I don't think they should take the wellbeing of smurfs into consideration when making changes. If you haven't played at least 2 games since season 4 with a champion, I highly doubt you'd be able to just pick them up straight into a ranked game. You'd be surprised how many people would yolo a champion first time in lower ELO. It's been a while since I've been there myself (been plat/diamond since season 3) but most of my friends are silver/bronze and they experience this a lot. Hell, they do it themselves and then regret it after 10 minutes ingame. But the main reason for this is indeed the new champion release issues. Would you be more acceptive if it were just mastery level 1? That means play 1 game, win or lose. Or do you think this is a bad idea no matter what?
This game is literally like half smurfs though. Worst part is Riot literally considers smurf accounts new players that's why we will never get an actual accurate number of the player population. Last season I was considered 4 people, 3 who consistently played. But in reality it would be just one person. I don't even know what is considered a smurf anymore. My main only G5.... so I don't really consider myself smurfing. More or less just trying out different champions and roles on sightly lower mmr accounts. If you can't tell by now Riot is all about maximizing their profit and sales. That's why they would not want to hinder players from easily making alternate accounts. You know how much money they make off ip/exp boosts plus people rebuying champions and skins on multiple accounts? I personally dislike the idea even with mastery 1 for the reasons I stated earlier. Mastery one not a bad idea but at that point I feel like it doesn't really matter. 1 game on a champion is better than no games, but its not enough to get close to understanding a champion. I think such a rule would just be annoying. Now if Riot comes out and says they want to make their ranked system super competitive, I would think that's cool. But that would alienate a part of the ranked population, which they don't want to do. Not everyone wants to spam same champs and same roles and try hard ever game sadly. Especially in bronze and silver.
Rioter Comments
Dr Poro (EUW)
: Two useful suggestions for Ranked and Draft Mode
The thing I don't like about this idea is mastery system didn't backdate player's play with champions. It's been out long enough now where in season 8 it wouldn't be a big deal. But I used to play on 3 accounts (sometimes) and I may know how to play a champion... hell maybe even have mastery 7 on a champion I own on a different account but on another account it looks like I have never played them. I would find such a mastery system really annoying as I don't think it really displays one's skill with a champion anyways. I know players want to stop people from first timing champions in ranked but... in reality that comes down to the player's decision. Even if they have mastery level 2 that hardly means that player is close to knowing how to play that champ. Its better than first timing, but hardly. I don't think players first time champs as much as people say they do. It may be first time in ranked but I am sure more often than not the player has played that champion before. The only exception would be new champions. Its not a bad idea but.... I am so used to the game how it is at this point I would rather just leave it how it is. If someone is dumb enough to first time play a champion in ranked then the will have to deal with the consequences. I know it sucks for your teammates but.... as we say its all 50/50 so there will be games in the future where the enemy first times a champ and you get an easier win. Plus for us veteran players there are champs I used to play like crazy back in seasons 1-3 or 4 before mastery was introduced but have hardly touched since. Granted they have made lots of changes since then but its not like I couldn't jump back on {{champion:110}} and have no idea what I am doing. Granted I am probably lvl 2 with him but have hardly played him since season 3. But not on all my accounts. The whole mastery system in general is kind of ridiculous. Its at least something to allow players to show their time spent playing certain champs but ultimately means nothing. How many times have you wrecked someone with a mastery 7 icon on a champion? I know I have a lot and sit there and wonder "how the F are they mastery 7 with that champion". People have bad games plus the score system is wake as fuck...... But I am sure they had fun hunting for those mastery 7 S games.....
Rioter Comments
: Honor Level?
I feel like it is currently too long and pissed they had everyone start the same. I already have lost interest in it since level 3 seems so far away. Plus the fact that my account has been in good standing for years started level 2 while other players who may have a low account standing also started level 2. Poor execution by Riot on new honor system in my opinion.
: When People Are Supportive in Ranked
I think it's fun when people take credit for bad plays or try to work together to come up with a plan. I try to take credit for my bad plays a lot. I just hate when people pile on. If it's constructive criticism that's fine but if they just pile on to make you feel worse I just mute them since it will only make me play worse. I also like to say gj when team does well. Don't see a lot of people say it that much anymore but its whatever. If someone does something I approve of I like to let them know. If its bad I usually don't say much unless it keeps happening.
: Who's your favorite assassin?
: I think you missed the point on that one. The point was the _reason_, not the action.
> [{quoted}](name=3SheetsTotheWind,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=y7yUa6Wv,comment-id=00010000,timestamp=2017-07-13T15:26:19.157+0000) > > I think you missed the point on that one. The point was the _reason_, not the action. You don't even play the game and then going to spout common sense. LOL.
: Just... don't.
> [{quoted}](name=3SheetsTotheWind,realm=NA,application-id=ZGEFLEUQ,discussion-id=y7yUa6Wv,comment-id=,timestamp=2017-07-13T14:58:29.486+0000) > > Feel like banning that champion your teammate has declared because you lolnexused their account and you think they're terrible? > Sorry but I have the right to ban who I want. Not my fault people are immature as fuck.
: Top Laners when their jungler actually helps their lane
Meh I personally really hate ganking top lane. I am fine doing it early and hell I will do it throughout the game but its more desirable to stick around mid & bot. Plus.... half the time your top just constantly pushing in anyways so ganking without tower diving is very difficult. Then another chunk of the time they die instantly at like level 1-3 for no rhyme or reason other than getting out played. Then they 1. Keep trying to fight & push and die over & over, 2. get pushed under turret. Now in situation 2 I can help you or at worst case protect turret while you back. But in situation 1. ganking top becomes a pain. There so many times people feed then ping spam need assistance and want ganks but generally a lot of those times a gank would just turn into a double kill for the enemy. Obviously every situation is unique and takes some consideration but..... its not just as simple as "gank top bruh". I am sorry for missing ganks top.... but you have to understand the number of completely incompetent top laners I have had to deal with throughout the years. It sometimes takes time to feel players out.
: me: wait, we have a jungler? about time you showed up. They've been camping the lane ever since i've been constantly trying to push it and take their tower.
> [{quoted}](name=TimX24968B,realm=NA,application-id=Ir7ZrJjF,discussion-id=ZQ778c8s,comment-id=0004,timestamp=2017-07-12T18:00:45.968+0000) > > me: > > wait, we have a jungler? about time you showed up. They've been camping the lane ever since i've been constantly trying to push it and take their tower. Because your doing it wrong.
: Honestly, I find it rather funny how many players believe that 1v1s actually matter. While it can be useful during the laning phase, you are usually fine if you just avoid dying too frequently. That is ignoring how useful is can be to simply push the wave and roam or the influence of junglers. Map pressure, rotations and objective/vision control are all far more important factors.
> [{quoted}](name=EndlessSorcerer,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EZuWVPwX,comment-id=00010001,timestamp=2017-07-10T12:55:20.879+0000) > > Honestly, I find it rather funny how many players believe that 1v1s actually matter. > > While it can be useful during the laning phase, you are usually fine if you just avoid dying too frequently. That is ignoring how useful is can be to simply push the wave and roam or the influence of junglers. > > Map pressure, rotations and objective/vision control are all far more important factors. I feel like the only difference between me being perma stuck in silver and now being perma stuck in gold is just doing a little more map pressure, rotating, objective vision control. Like.... obviously no where close to pro level but focusing on them enough increased me being stuck in silver 2-3 for over 2 seasons to being stuck in gold 2-3. Mechanics, and other game knowledge pretty much the same. Just little more aware of surroundings and game knoweldge netted 4-5 divisions higher rank (last season at least).
: > [{quoted}](name=Dukues,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EZuWVPwX,comment-id=0010,timestamp=2017-07-10T19:32:39.589+0000) > > If anyone not gold or higher gave me shit like that I would just hit them with the "you must be excited for that victorious skin this season.... o wait" line. Holy moly that's fucking brutal. Lol.
> [{quoted}](name=Clown Down Mid,realm=NA,application-id=cIfEodbz,discussion-id=EZuWVPwX,comment-id=00100000,timestamp=2017-07-11T07:09:53.046+0000) > > Holy moly that's fucking brutal. Lol. Wait until the end of a season lol then it's really brutal.
: When mid-elo players don't play Normals
Norms is a joke. Hell ranked is a joke. If anyone not gold or higher gave me shit like that I would just hit them with the "you must be excited for that victorious skin this season.... o wait" line. I don't think a higher rank would make fun of me because meh.... we both know I suck no need to tell me unless they plat 5 then I could see it. But hell... if I was plat 5 I would talk so much shit it wouldn't be funny more or less just to humor myself. Sadly never been plat so I can't say it :(. Or I could but ... it really losses it's meaning. Best is when you fucking around and someone says "I am a diamond smurf" when they getting wrecked in a silver game haha. I have been practicing adc on an alt account and we beat a team the other day and the enemy jungler was pissed and threw out the "well the important thing is I have a diamond 3 acct so I guess this loss doesn't matter". Although...... looking at it now he didn't specify he was a diamond smurf... only that he had a diamond account so maybe just admitting to account buying/boosting? (low silver ranked game).
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Dukues

Level 30 (NA)
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